As a Brisbane girl, this was a very special episode. JC, along with two high school friends started their journey as Powderfinger as high school students from Brisbane. Their careers spanned 21 years and changed the landscape for rock music at the time, particularly for the Brisbane music scene. JC has continued his music journey, behind the scenes opening both the Triffid and Fortitude Valley music Hall. His story is one of resilience, hard work and an unwavering belief that keeping calm and positive is simply the best way to approach life.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appolja Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always, the
CEO series. This series, we launch into the new world
of brave leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Happy people create happy businesses, true.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vombit once on our
about our four flight and everybody thought, well, if it's
good enough for him, I can do it. Now we
will be joined by culture and leadership experts and some
superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth behind
their brave leadership journeys. And Welcome to another episode of
Brave Always. Brave stands for bold, resilient, authentic, vulnerable and
(00:44):
empathetic leadership and a user's podcast to talk to CEOs, leaders,
business owners to really understand what their brave journey is,
because you know, getting to the top doesn't mean that
you don't have to be a great human. Now today's
a little bit different because I've got the incredible Jc here.
And if you don't know who JC is, well where
have you been? He is the bass guitarist and founder
(01:06):
of powder Finger. And I'm seriously fangirling here and trying
to keep calm because this is the guy that I
rocked out to in my early twenties. JC was a
founding member and the bass guitarist for powder Finger that
ran from nineteen eighty nine un till they retired in
twenty ten. Since he left powder Finger, he actually started
up the Trifford, which is an amazing music venue here
in Brisbane in twenty fourteen, then went on to start
(01:28):
the Fortitude Valley Music Hall in twenty nineteen. He's a
member of the board of Q Music and a member
of the Order of Australia for services to arts through
music and to the community. So why am I talking
to this incredible musician today when you often hear me
talking to corporate CEOs. Well, the thing I've discovered about
Brave is it applies to everybody. And you know, whether
you're leading a large organization, a small organization, or you're
(01:51):
leading people in their lives, there's a story here to
be told and I think there's some fascinating synergies that
will come out of this chat today. And after hearing
from so many people what a legend this guy is,
I just had to have him on here. So welcome Jackie.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
That's great to be here. That's a great raps the great,
greatest heart. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So it would be completely remiss of me to deny
my leaders some nostalgia. Let's be fair, So let's flash
back quickly to nineteen eighty nine. I'll just call it
that I was seven. Then you're a student at Brisbane
Grammar School and give and two mates decide to start
a band. So what I know of decisions made when
you're young, and what I've spoken to a few people
is often it doesn't feel like a bold decision. Like
(02:27):
I've said, was that a bold call? And they're like,
not really, it was more like what have I got
to lose? Caution to the win kind of stuff. Was
that the case for you when you guys made this choice?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah? Absolutely. I think you don't realize until later on
that you actually took a chance on yourself. You know,
you don't sort of think those ways when you're seventeen eighteen.
So yeah, I think at the time, you think it's
going to be fun, you know, and I suppose you
believe that you've got something and that that you can
give to the other guys and be part of creat
something special. But at no stage you think this is
a really bold move. You know, historically look back and say,
(02:57):
you know, it could have been. Luckily it was a
good move.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So yeah, yeah, what was kind of the earliest heck up?
You kind of encountered.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Success, not having success? Yeah, not having success? Yeah, no,
I think we were from Brisbane. Brisbane at the time
was a pretty hard market to break out of a
lot of bands before our generation of acts came through.
We're going to Sydney or UK and relocating. You couldn't
make it in Brisbane. No record company execs would fly
up and watch a band in Brisbane. I remember the comment,
like we were doing about a thousand people at a
(03:24):
show and someone said, it doesn't matter if they're doing
a thousand people in Brisbane, They're not doing a thousand
people in Sydney. Like so, I've got a chip in
my shoulder from that still there, you can still see it. Yeah, yeah,
I suppose that's That's the thing that we struggled with
as a band, a young band. But you know, with
that comes opportunity, I think as well, like we just
decided to jump in a car and travel and played
as many markets as we could and then to get
(03:46):
better as well.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Was it important for you to make a scene in
Brisbane though, Like when you said you've got a chip
on your shoulder. You wanted to prove that Brisbane.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I honestly do you think
so that in hindsight we look at that We're always
happy to talk with the media saying that we're happy
to spend a day in the car to go and
live in Brisbane because this is where our families and
mates were, and we'd brother live in a Queenslander, you know,
and have barbecues and play backyard cricket. I think we
would have struggled if we had to move together and
lived in a small unit in Sydney together. I think
(04:12):
so our method was just to have come home and
feel like how we grew up, you know, and be
around the people we love.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I love that you still live here, Yeah, I love it. Yeah,
that feels really special. So as the co founded it
was banned, obviously you would have had some leader strengths
at that time, right, because obviously some band members changed
as time went on. What strengths do you think you
bought the band back then? What was the thing that
jac bought.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I think early days I was pretty organized. I was
sort of one of the guys in the band that
would turn up on time, do things you know, and
knew where I was supposed to be. I think I've
always had a pretty good being able to be a
neutral character in terms of be prepared to meet when
I'm wrong and also be that person in the middle
and try to keep things going or talk it out.
I'm not sort of that my way of the highway,
(04:55):
and I think that gets dangerous in the band. I
felt like that was my place in the band, and
I've probably played to it as well, you know, So
I think particularly early on, you know, I remember when
we're touring when before I had a manager and he
didn't want to come to the road, say, got two
of them manage the band and be pulling up to
phone boxes and trying to say is that accommodation ready?
And collect the money in the night. So that was
early days. So I suppose I had that part of
(05:18):
me was there.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Did the sort of your bandmates kind of allow you
to do that? Were happy?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, they were happy someone was telling with so yeah,
they used.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
To get you were the crazy one.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Then I still had a good time, though if you
ask other people, they say I was always up late
with ho heat, but that's okay.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So what was your big first live performance? Can you
flash me back? What was that one?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
You look probably look at the big day outs. Yeah,
I know that was the probably first opportunity. You might
be playing at three o'clock or four o'clock, but there's
still thirty forty thousand people in front of you, and
you just sort of come out of that sort of
scene where you're playing clubs around one thousand and maybe
to fifteen hundred. Next minute you're playing to those massive
crowd and people know your songs, and so yeah, I
remember that very distinctly.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
How do you feel like you're overwhelmed?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Nervous? I always just get nervous. I think nerves is
a good thing for me, It is anyway. But I
think you just so excit. It took a couple of
songs to sort of settle down, sort of walk out,
and we just look at each other and go, holy cow.
You know. With probably that young's more excitement. You know,
when something happens for the first time, it's really special.
You know, like first time you hear a song on
the radio that's really special, or you know, you don't
(06:21):
get it twice. Yeah, So I think that's sort of
the moment you capture and you sort of don't realize
until much later how important those moments were. You sort
of because you get in the groove of things, you know, yeah,
not expectations, but you just think you're living in the moment.
You're always in a groove. So yeah, it's not too
later you reflect on those to have.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Such highs, right, like those big moments of just like
wow and being so revered and so forth, like can
you ever compete with that again? Like is this kind
of this feeling like it's never going to feel like
don't mean to be like Eldepress though, but do you
know what I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Honestly do miss it. I honestly do. When we finished, too,
like without going too much into it, but you realize
how much pressure there was on us. You don't realize
there's pressure until you stop doing it, right, true, but
comes with pressures the highs, you know, and we had some,
you know, some of the greatest men playing shows in
Bridgbe River Stage, doing five shows on our Sunsets tour,
or playing the Opera House steps with Credit House to
(07:12):
one hundred and fifty thousand there. I mean, of course
I picked up but yeah, they're the things that are
really matter to you, and those highs. I still have
great time highs in my life, but they're pretty hard
to be honestly.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I just wondered, like you know, I know through a
lot of sporting players as well, who when their sporting
careers end, there is this really challenging period where you
kind of who am I and and I just sort
of wonder if that's the same sort of I suppose
it would be.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
The music speaks my life as a band. We always
identified what we do closely with sporting people. If we
were playing well the back line where we work today,
the ball came out really nicely. And it's a little
bit like that because it does take five players to
click to make it a great performance. If you've got
your fullback having a shaker, it's really hard to all click,
do you know what I mean? So we used to
always talk of analogies of that.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Ehych may sort of do leadership sessis, especially around teams,
high performing teams. I always talk about sport and band
analogies because yeah, you need all the parts working. Can
you think of a moment where you felt looking back, Oh,
that was when I felt so exposed. I was my
most vulnerable probably later in life.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I feel more exposed today than I was in the band.
I think of the band, you know, we call it
the person who doesn't say anything. It just goes along
minimum chips, you know, So you can play a role
in the band. If you had five people just want
to talk over the top of each other, it's a
bit annoying. We shared the workload around with interviews and
the press and stuff. But yeah, I think I feel
more exposed now than I've ever felt because I'm alone.
(08:34):
For twenty years, I had the support of one or
two mates with me.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, wow, thank you. So I talk about resilience and
brave as knowing and accepting that the obstacles are the
path right and the journey of the band suddenly had
its ups and downs. How did you face into that?
And you know, when things went wrong or things didn't
go to plan, and then how's that shaped how you
tackle challenges today?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
You're not everything went right for us in our career,
which is nothing. Does we challenge it with sort of
within the group? I think we had really strong connection
with each other, and I think that's the way we
dealt with things. We dealt with it internally together. You know,
we learn early not to believe any hype. You know,
when we're going to New York and everyone's saying, you
guys are going to be the biggest thing. We're going
to stretch limb of fourteen people them there were two
(09:14):
of us getting driven around to interviews and just that
American sense of you guys are going to be huge.
We learned early not to listen. That We learned that
long time ago. So when things don't go well, you
sort of we became insula. We regrouped. I suppose that's
how we did it, you know, just go back and
do what we do, go and write songs, rehearse, stick
to what we know. And you know, we were really
(09:34):
lucky we had good management. You know, that sort of
dealt with a lot of external issues for us. Our
objective is to remain very independent at what's going on
the noise around us.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
So that was something we really pretty impressive. I mean,
you're pretty young guys, and you know, get flown to
New all of SU's happening. It'd be normal for fame
to go to your head a little bit. How do
you guys sound so grand like this? Whole. We just
said to us Alves, we're going to stay level headed.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I think as a Brisbane thing, I think it's a
bit of our upbringing. We're all sort of Southeast Queens well,
mostly Brisbane and one coast coggsy the coast, so friends
wouldn't put up with that shit.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Pull your head in, Jason, I see the great network
of people that would bring you back down to easily.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, we had great relationships with their crew because we
also felt it wasn't asked, it was everybody creating this,
So that was that's part of as well.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
It kind of leads me on to you know, because
people I know because I was in my twenties when
I was like listening to your music and people put
you know, band members on a pedestal. Right, how hard
is it then to stay authentic to who you are?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Like?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Are there times where you know you're having to do interviews,
You've probably got women throwing themselves at you. How hard
is it to see authentic when fame comes into play?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
There was some challenges for us. You know, when someone
tries to put clothes on you that don't look great.
You're a photo shoot, you do two days of photo
shoots and someone puts you in stuff that just you
look like a bunch of idiots. That's hard. You just
have to say no. And we don't look like ourselves,
so we're just musicians. I think also, the fame and
Australia is different from fame in the US. In Australia
you can be a singer songwriter Paul Kelly and still
(11:06):
go and pub and have a bed, you know, on
a Friday night. I just don't think strands put musicians
up on that pedestal like they do in America, where
you walk in a room and everyone claps you. So
I don't think it was a big challenge for us.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
When you say that, do you see yourselves as being
famous in Australia? Is that what you're telling me? Because
I remember being living in the UK and you were big.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I think there's a difference between the band being famous
and the people being famous. You know, I said, we
didn't live in Sydney. We weren't going to every opening,
walking every red carpet, being in who weekly. It wasn't
sort of our thing. Yeah, the bands, I really love
Radiohead and stuff like that, you know they're not doing that.
They're just creating great records.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
So Patifinger went on to become a global success, collecting
five number one albums, eighteen ARE awards, three Opera Awards
and sales and more than two point five million albums.
For the band to split, there would have been a
lot of you know, a lot of thinking, thoughts and emotions.
What was the overwhelming feeling at the time. Did you
know what was next for you?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Was it sort of for me personally?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
No, I had no idea. When we put tools down,
you suddenly realize I don't have to go do anything,
nothing to do, and that's when you sort of saw
the pressure coming off you. And you know, and I
said yes to a lot of things. I can go
that yes because I don't have to ask anyone yes,
I can go yes. And when overseas with the family
and went to Gary Island with my mates, and you know,
all those things I've said no to for years and
(12:17):
spent a year of saying yes, I think, yeah, then
you just have to shake your head and go, what
am I going to do now? I had really no
plans at that stage, which is sort of good.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Were you ready for it to end?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Then? Yes? And no, we could see the ride on
the wall, like we could see the tools and it's
small and end up playing crappy rooms. And that's something
we never really wanted to do. I think we wanted
to sort of go out on our terms. Ye, you know,
that was something we spoke about. I mean, there was
a couple different opinions and how we do what we do.
Someone in the band didn't want to really break up,
just want to take a long break. But in the day,
(12:47):
sort it was a decision. We all came together. It
was a group decision that we all lived with. We
got asked that question about reunions and stuff. We get
on really well as a band.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I wasn't going to ask you that.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, but no, there's no plans I can say it now.
But you know, it's a great thing that we still
get on as friends. We have business together, we're still
releasing records, greatest hits and all those sorts of things.
And so one Night Lonely was a great example for
us getting together as mates again. It's also exciting and sad,
you know. I remember being pretty emotional the last night
at the River stage, like for me and Cogs, I
(13:17):
suppose the drama it was probably difference like burned and
holding and darn, what was going to go and play
in stage? Is that size? Again? I knew it wasn't
for me. Yeah right, it wasn't something I planned to
do and go and play another band. So yeah, it's
felt like that was It took me a while to
get into my next sort of phase of life.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
You took a year off, had a gap year, yes,
yet I call it yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it.
I love that we sort of fast tracked, sort of
wanted to touch on COVID because obviously you were in
the midst of doing things during that period. You know,
it really did change the landscape for the arts and
music scene, and not for the better. It really it
felt like music to shut down. I imagine it may
have been easier to walk away at that time. Like
at the time if you look at twenty nineteen, that
was when you were doing work with the Fortitude Musical.
(13:56):
What's going on for you? Then? Are you just like,
are you bloody kidding me? Like COVID's just hit and
you know, like probably one of the worst times for
this industry.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, it was horrible. I mean we're just open lot
to six months I think before COVID started. The industry
doesn't know what to do, quite honestly, how to recover
from it. At the moment, you know, we were involved
in the festival market with Splendor. Our group was you
see the grassroots music now is struggling to sell tickets.
I found really incredibly unfair that you'd have fifty thousand
people at s own Court Stadium and we're already allowed
(14:25):
thirty per cent of our crowd. That was when I
probably started becoming an advocate for the industry. I sort
of felt like it wasn't so much I wanted to it.
I felt like everyone stood back. I was a guy
standing in the line, only guy left in the line
because I was a bit disappointed in honestly, some of
the industry just didn't get out and fight. And so
with a good friend of mine, came up with a
campaign called play Fair, and we had sporting stars like
(14:46):
Darren Lockyer, Johnny Iil's and celebrities. All these people were
saying it's time to play fair premiere and it wasn't
about how we could make money. It was about how
we could survive as a venue business, and not just
the venues in Queensland. The objective was to bring the
government to the table for discussion, so which it did,
so it was a really great outcome. They didn't want
to change the restrictions on the industry, but they did
(15:07):
offer financial support, which was necessary to keep the lights on.
So a lot of the venues would have closed or
been brought up by multinational companies during COVID. So, yeah,
that was sort of my first, really first time being
exposed out there, sort of rallying for the industry. And
when you do that, you put yourself in that position,
you're going to get your critics.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
You took some time off after the band, the Trippic
was your first decided to move into the background and
the arts and venues, which I think is fantastic. Then
to get hit with that in that period when everything
kind of shut down, did you stop at that moment
and think, maybe this isn't the right path that I've taken,
because you sort of from what I understand, you dabbled
in a few things. You thought you might dabble in
a few things.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, I looked at motor racing business, looked at buying
a printing business with the mates and stuff like that.
Just you know, silent partner sort of stuff, and I
now I realized that, you know what am I doing?
I love the music industry. It's what I believe, I know.
And with the Triff, I thought there was a gap
for a venue that size in Brisbane.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Was there a bit of a gamble getting there done?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
That was probably the bravest thing did probably right. I
did have a partner and then they pulled out last minute.
So and we're three quarters through the build on financing
at all.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
You with a sensible one, right, but obviously you're taking
a risk not knowing exactly what's going to be on
the other side.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I think I've got that farry into it. I had
to keep going, you know, you just have to work
one step at a time. You know something's not great,
you just sort of go, okay, what's the process from here,
what's the outcoming? And then you work back from the outcome,
you know, found another business partner to come in and
chair on the load financial burden. Yeah, but I was Yeah,
it was pretty exposed at the time.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah. And then the Fortgy Music Valley will starts just
when COVID starts to kick in.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, opens just before COVID, And that was tough, you know,
talking about resilience and things like that. You know, I
think the hardest thing, apart from all the financial burden
and all those challenges, was to keep the staff motivated.
You're so stressed and depressed about it, but you couldn't sharp. Yeah,
you had to be strong at all the Zoom meetings
and whatever you're doing. You just had to be that
resilient looking you know, and then behind doors you're sort
(16:56):
of like, holy, okay, this is pretty bad because I
didn't expect to go on that long spurs, and I
think that was the thing that really drained a lot
of energy industry was just exhausted because we canceled to
move five hundred shows. That's being scheduling, a lot of
work involved in that, just kicking the ball down the
road and having to budget what crystal ball do you want?
(17:18):
But yeah, the tough heart was not showing it, not
showing your vulnerability and to the staff in that period
because they needed to see someone strong.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I do agree people need to have someone steering the ship.
But then at the same token, knowing it's okay that
this is actually quite upsetting and frustrating.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I always made sure that then wee could come and
have a cry on my couch because it was tough
at the end of the day. They need to see
someone out there sort of not moping around saying this
is shit and this is.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Shit so no, and not giving up hope.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I think that your passion for music probably, like if
you weren't in the music industry and had that passion
for it, it could easily have waned a bit. But
surely JC has a way of distressing, like do you
go home and like crank out the guitar, Like what
are you doing to a very chill man.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I play gold fishing. Don't mind a glass of wine
on the end of the week. Who doesn't have for work?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Do you sleep well? Used to busy mind kind of thing? Well,
I'm just looking for personal tips because.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I sleep really well. I know, I just find out.
It's a little bit different where I'm up at three thirty. Yes, yes,
And that's sort of most nights. It's pretty stressful time
at the moment with everyone with the world the way
it is, and you know, one of our venues is
growing great now that one. It's tough times, so that
keeps you up at night.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, absolutely, For aud I understand the way it always
seems like is that sometimes the musician is the last
person to get the money when it comes to events
and things like that, And so you would have been
on the receiving it of that and your very early days,
particularly before you guys had record labels and were making
good money. Now you're on the other side of the
fence where you run the venues, right, How does that
(18:47):
play out for you? Is there a level of empathy
you have for musicians, particularly starting musicians that sort of
is different the way you interact with them or the
way you run your business.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
The business is sort of pretty standardized across the country
the way people do it, I suppose. The way I
do try to influence that area is to give particularly
young artists great experiences in great space, good writer burgers,
stuff that matters to them. They're not making a lot
of money, they're doing because they love it and really
create a good experience when they enter the venue. That
comes from me, goes through the management, and it works.
(19:18):
It's really well known, particularly the smaller any of the
Triffid where we do go extra extra yards to make
sure the younger artists are treated well. I remember how
much that made a difference. You know, we don't take
merch cuts and stuff like that, so they can pay
their hotel rooms and things like that.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Maybe it's influenced the way you interact with them because
you'd be on the other side.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Definitely has It.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Applies to workforces too, like the power of knowing what
your people go through, right, in this case, what the
musicians are going through, so that you can tailor the
experience for them to be more joyful. Right, that's kind
of all people are hoping for at the end of
the day. What about now that you know, so when
you were back in the band, you know, I'm sure
you had bad manager and someone who dealt with all
the young stuff, let's call it young stuff. Now that
you're on the other side of the fans, you're becoming
(19:57):
across dealing with difficult people in business, lots of red
tape and political decisions, things like that. What do you
find most challenging running businesses?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Now? You know, communicating my team, you know, I just
say if you think we should be strong to speaks
really strong and I'll back you on that, you know,
just given opportunities to do it themselves and stuff, and
I don't want to be the person to have to
come in and sort problems out for them because that
doesn't build relationships and stuff. So I really rely heavily
on the people are putting those positions. And I always
talk about tone stuff too, like an email. So I'm
big on tone. I think tone is everything way you
(20:28):
communicate with people. You can be asked for something really horrible,
but if the tones are right, it's read better. You know,
it's understood.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
You're one of the first people that I've ever said
that to me. Really, Yeah, it's really interesting because I
one hundred percent or deliveries all of it right. And
maybe there's some lovely link here between tone and the
fact that you're a musician. I don't know. Yeah, even
the tone of the melody like can change an emotion
and a feeling. I totally agree. The way you deliver
a message can still be the same message delivered in
a way that doesn't feel.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Instead of putting a big block up. I've had a
couple of people in their tone has been horrible. It's
just been and I wasn't sure if they're arrogant or
they're busy, and could have been both. So I just
have to pick up the phone say hey, am I
misreading this because it was so rudely written and you
know it could have been considered as really aggressive or
was it busy? I just couldn't tell so to me.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
So you see clarity from people where be I don't.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Understand it, you know before I start firing back, because
I think negative tone gives your negative tone back. Yeah,
you know, it's an opportunity to start a little war.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Really for me, it is actually yeah, and it could
be nothing and it could be nothing to do with you,
and so.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, that's one of thing Ilway was talked to the
teams just about making sure the emails and tone is
really important to me.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
If I went and interviewed some of your staff members,
why do you think that they like working for you?
You're a good leader.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I know what I'd hope they'd say, I've never yelled
at anyone. You don't need to.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I think I believe that they need to.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
You know, you can get your message across firmly without
yelling and abusing people.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Did you grow up in a family like that? Can
I ask? Is that where it came from?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I went to a boarding skills so I feel like
I was.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I feel like, you know, like you would have got
webs there, wouldn't you.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah? Probably literally literally. I suppose just growing up with
you know, hundred city other males and you probably learn
how to be reasonable.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I don't make you more much. I will sort of
like needing to maybe.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I don't know, it's a good question, look at Sorry,
I might need a couch for that one.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I think trying to work out why this man. You've
got a lovely, calm demeanor about you, which I can
imagine employees would feel really receptive to.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, I hope so well. As I said, like, don't
yell at people. I don't like when it gets too
business either. I try to light in the room up occasionally.
We've all got a job to do, Yeah, But I
hate when it gets to the point where that's all
it's about. Because we're working in an industry we all
apparently love. I think it's important to make sure that
we enjoy each other's company in the room and enjoy
each other's work. There's got to be a thing where
you've got to make it not so serious, because it
(22:45):
really frustrates when it comes up, because then it becomes
a big business and that's not what we're about. You know,
we're about experiences. People come to the venues we're it's
about experience of the artists. You create that by creating
team that has the same philosophy, I believe. So that's
the way I've come from, and I just try to
be a good person to them and treating like friends.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I feel that you got the joy part that I'm
a bit obsessed about joy in life, like otherwise it's
a pretty sad existence and it sounds like you're trying
to get some balance with that.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I also believe. And if someone does something great, just
go and tell them. I think the young generation really
respond to that really well as well. You know that
the people I've got working for us now work hard,
and when they work hard, I think they deserve credit.
You know something really I find important.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Well, it's the one thing that you want to keep
working on when it comes to being a good leader.
Like it's kind of the eerie that you're like, oh yeah,
prob still struggle bit with that.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I struggle with technology, but that's not a leader of
it that.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
I'm going to give you that one. That's fine.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I can't say it. I suppose because I'm older and
you know, teams are quite young. I suppose if I
can just improve my skills that way, then I can
relate to them a little bit easier. Okay, you know,
and I understand social media stuff better. And you know,
I'm glad it wasn't around when pad thing was around
like it is now people are working with a crown
up where it's natural, because then I could probably click
a bit better with them.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah yeah, yeah, uncommon interest to bomb with you.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, so I feel like a bit like they've probably
seen to be a bit dad like something, you know,
because you know, I'm pretty shit at it. So my
start put back that up.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
They fix everything for you. Have you got like giant
font on your phone too?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeap? Oh damn?
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Okay, all right, I'm going to get a couple of questions.
We haven't got much more time so much Mirekeah talks
you about. But I know you inspire many people, But
who inspires you?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, that's a good question. You know, people like Mineralal
inspired us as people their awareness in the community and
what they gave back and the way they used in
the Australian music industry to influence things. And I think
that's inspiring or it's was to us as a band
as well. You know, I get inspired by people like
Paul Patiko, who was a manager a powdered finger who
(24:39):
you know, runs secret sounds and is resilient, explaining the
grass all that sort of stuff. So when you know,
I remember walking in when it was flooded and we
just come out of COVID and I said, Jez, God
does hate rock and roll, doesn't he? Because you know,
it just felt like another hit. People like that inspire
me because they keep on going. Yeah, you know, and
they're close friends, you know, the people I deal with daily.
I think you can be inspired by people who you
(25:00):
work with, can't you. You know, absolutely, there's a lot
of people like that around that I just take little
bits and pieces of inspiration from.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I like that you're kind of looking more in your
inner circle or what you see versus necessarily has to
be something grand or miles away. I love that. I
love that. All right, let's go back to nineteen year
old John. What's the best advice you'd give them today?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Don't sweat their small stuff. Just don't let that stuff
get to you when something happens. I do sweat on it,
and it does bother me a.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Little bit of a warrior, Yeah, I do that, But
I'm a chronic people pleaser, like working on it. Is
that the same?
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yep? I like to have everything clear. I don't want anyone.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Anyone sitting in that space of someone not being happy
and feeling responsible.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
It's really I just like it, and being the band
was good. No one really disliked you. They just didn't
like the band. Not everyone like Pataphing, of course, but
no one was attacking JC.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You know, yeah, protected in there.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, so it was little hidden there. So I suppose
that's just don't smit the small Let that go. Let
it go to the keeper. I'm still working.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
You can't make everyone happy, right.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
No, you know, bloody dry hard.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
It's exhausting though, Like I'm on the same journeys you.
I like that, all right. Last question of the day, Powderfinger,
In fact, any band for that matter, was not an option.
Music is not an option, right, I'm ruling it out.
What would John Collins have done instead? What would I
find you doing?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Probably something like commercial property or something. You know, I've
a lot of friends in that world. Yeah, I just.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I mean, it would have been a really wise choice,
like in the last.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I don't know. That's probably just wor.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
You're too nice to be.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I didn't say I would be good at it. I
didn't say to be good at it.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So if you'd be too honest, that's actually not worth it.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I like dealing with people, and I love playing music,
but I'm playing music is dealing with people. Doing what
I do now is dealing with people. I like being
around people. I prefer to have meetings with people in
seat of zooms. I like the contact with people. So
to me, any job that has.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
That, it has been a pleasure talking to you. Love
the human lovely lead out. Thank you so much for
your time.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
It's been wonderful. Thanks for having me. Thank you
Appolja Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always, the
CEO series. This series, we launch into the new world
of brave leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Happy people create happy businesses, true.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vombit once on our
about our four flight and everybody thought, well, if it's
good enough for him, I can do it. Now we
will be joined by culture and leadership experts and some
superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth behind
their brave leadership journeys. And Welcome to another episode of
Brave Always. Brave stands for bold, resilient, authentic, vulnerable and
(00:44):
empathetic leadership and a user's podcast to talk to CEOs, leaders,
business owners to really understand what their brave journey is,
because you know, getting to the top doesn't mean that
you don't have to be a great human. Now today's
a little bit different because I've got the incredible Jc here.
And if you don't know who JC is, well where
have you been? He is the bass guitarist and founder
(01:06):
of powder Finger. And I'm seriously fangirling here and trying
to keep calm because this is the guy that I
rocked out to in my early twenties. JC was a
founding member and the bass guitarist for powder Finger that
ran from nineteen eighty nine un till they retired in
twenty ten. Since he left powder Finger, he actually started
up the Trifford, which is an amazing music venue here
in Brisbane in twenty fourteen, then went on to start
(01:28):
the Fortitude Valley Music Hall in twenty nineteen. He's a
member of the board of Q Music and a member
of the Order of Australia for services to arts through
music and to the community. So why am I talking
to this incredible musician today when you often hear me
talking to corporate CEOs. Well, the thing I've discovered about
Brave is it applies to everybody. And you know, whether
you're leading a large organization, a small organization, or you're
(01:51):
leading people in their lives, there's a story here to
be told and I think there's some fascinating synergies that
will come out of this chat today. And after hearing
from so many people what a legend this guy is,
I just had to have him on here. So welcome Jackie.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
That's great to be here. That's a great raps the great,
greatest heart. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So it would be completely remiss of me to deny
my leaders some nostalgia. Let's be fair, So let's flash
back quickly to nineteen eighty nine. I'll just call it
that I was seven. Then you're a student at Brisbane
Grammar School and give and two mates decide to start
a band. So what I know of decisions made when
you're young, and what I've spoken to a few people
is often it doesn't feel like a bold decision. Like
(02:27):
I've said, was that a bold call? And they're like,
not really, it was more like what have I got
to lose? Caution to the win kind of stuff. Was
that the case for you when you guys made this choice?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah? Absolutely. I think you don't realize until later on
that you actually took a chance on yourself. You know,
you don't sort of think those ways when you're seventeen eighteen.
So yeah, I think at the time, you think it's
going to be fun, you know, and I suppose you
believe that you've got something and that that you can
give to the other guys and be part of creat
something special. But at no stage you think this is
a really bold move. You know, historically look back and say,
(02:57):
you know, it could have been. Luckily it was a
good move.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So yeah, yeah, what was kind of the earliest heck up?
You kind of encountered.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Success, not having success? Yeah, not having success? Yeah, no,
I think we were from Brisbane. Brisbane at the time
was a pretty hard market to break out of a
lot of bands before our generation of acts came through.
We're going to Sydney or UK and relocating. You couldn't
make it in Brisbane. No record company execs would fly
up and watch a band in Brisbane. I remember the comment,
like we were doing about a thousand people at a
(03:24):
show and someone said, it doesn't matter if they're doing
a thousand people in Brisbane, They're not doing a thousand
people in Sydney. Like so, I've got a chip in
my shoulder from that still there, you can still see it. Yeah, yeah,
I suppose that's That's the thing that we struggled with
as a band, a young band. But you know, with
that comes opportunity, I think as well, like we just
decided to jump in a car and travel and played
as many markets as we could and then to get
(03:46):
better as well.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Was it important for you to make a scene in
Brisbane though, Like when you said you've got a chip
on your shoulder. You wanted to prove that Brisbane.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I honestly do you think
so that in hindsight we look at that We're always
happy to talk with the media saying that we're happy
to spend a day in the car to go and
live in Brisbane because this is where our families and
mates were, and we'd brother live in a Queenslander, you know,
and have barbecues and play backyard cricket. I think we
would have struggled if we had to move together and
lived in a small unit in Sydney together. I think
(04:12):
so our method was just to have come home and
feel like how we grew up, you know, and be
around the people we love.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I love that you still live here, Yeah, I love it. Yeah,
that feels really special. So as the co founded it
was banned, obviously you would have had some leader strengths
at that time, right, because obviously some band members changed
as time went on. What strengths do you think you
bought the band back then? What was the thing that
jac bought.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I think early days I was pretty organized. I was
sort of one of the guys in the band that
would turn up on time, do things you know, and
knew where I was supposed to be. I think I've
always had a pretty good being able to be a
neutral character in terms of be prepared to meet when
I'm wrong and also be that person in the middle
and try to keep things going or talk it out.
I'm not sort of that my way of the highway,
(04:55):
and I think that gets dangerous in the band. I
felt like that was my place in the band, and
I've probably played to it as well, you know, So
I think particularly early on, you know, I remember when
we're touring when before I had a manager and he
didn't want to come to the road, say, got two
of them manage the band and be pulling up to
phone boxes and trying to say is that accommodation ready?
And collect the money in the night. So that was
early days. So I suppose I had that part of
(05:18):
me was there.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Did the sort of your bandmates kind of allow you
to do that? Were happy?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, they were happy someone was telling with so yeah,
they used.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
To get you were the crazy one.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Then I still had a good time, though if you
ask other people, they say I was always up late
with ho heat, but that's okay.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
So what was your big first live performance? Can you
flash me back? What was that one?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
You look probably look at the big day outs. Yeah,
I know that was the probably first opportunity. You might
be playing at three o'clock or four o'clock, but there's
still thirty forty thousand people in front of you, and
you just sort of come out of that sort of
scene where you're playing clubs around one thousand and maybe
to fifteen hundred. Next minute you're playing to those massive
crowd and people know your songs, and so yeah, I
remember that very distinctly.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
How do you feel like you're overwhelmed?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Nervous? I always just get nervous. I think nerves is
a good thing for me, It is anyway. But I
think you just so excit. It took a couple of
songs to sort of settle down, sort of walk out,
and we just look at each other and go, holy cow.
You know. With probably that young's more excitement. You know,
when something happens for the first time, it's really special.
You know, like first time you hear a song on
the radio that's really special, or you know, you don't
(06:21):
get it twice. Yeah, So I think that's sort of
the moment you capture and you sort of don't realize
until much later how important those moments were. You sort
of because you get in the groove of things, you know, yeah,
not expectations, but you just think you're living in the moment.
You're always in a groove. So yeah, it's not too
later you reflect on those to have.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Such highs, right, like those big moments of just like
wow and being so revered and so forth, like can
you ever compete with that again? Like is this kind
of this feeling like it's never going to feel like
don't mean to be like Eldepress though, but do you
know what I mean, I.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Honestly do miss it. I honestly do. When we finished, too,
like without going too much into it, but you realize
how much pressure there was on us. You don't realize
there's pressure until you stop doing it, right, true, but
comes with pressures the highs, you know, and we had some,
you know, some of the greatest men playing shows in
Bridgbe River Stage, doing five shows on our Sunsets tour,
or playing the Opera House steps with Credit House to
(07:12):
one hundred and fifty thousand there. I mean, of course
I picked up but yeah, they're the things that are
really matter to you, and those highs. I still have
great time highs in my life, but they're pretty hard
to be honestly.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I just wondered, like you know, I know through a
lot of sporting players as well, who when their sporting
careers end, there is this really challenging period where you
kind of who am I and and I just sort
of wonder if that's the same sort of I suppose
it would be.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
The music speaks my life as a band. We always
identified what we do closely with sporting people. If we
were playing well the back line where we work today,
the ball came out really nicely. And it's a little
bit like that because it does take five players to
click to make it a great performance. If you've got
your fullback having a shaker, it's really hard to all click,
do you know what I mean? So we used to
always talk of analogies of that.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Ehych may sort of do leadership sessis, especially around teams,
high performing teams. I always talk about sport and band
analogies because yeah, you need all the parts working. Can
you think of a moment where you felt looking back, Oh,
that was when I felt so exposed. I was my
most vulnerable probably later in life.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I feel more exposed today than I was in the band.
I think of the band, you know, we call it
the person who doesn't say anything. It just goes along
minimum chips, you know, So you can play a role
in the band. If you had five people just want
to talk over the top of each other, it's a
bit annoying. We shared the workload around with interviews and
the press and stuff. But yeah, I think I feel
more exposed now than I've ever felt because I'm alone.
(08:34):
For twenty years, I had the support of one or
two mates with me.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, wow, thank you. So I talk about resilience and
brave as knowing and accepting that the obstacles are the
path right and the journey of the band suddenly had
its ups and downs. How did you face into that?
And you know, when things went wrong or things didn't
go to plan, and then how's that shaped how you
tackle challenges today?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
You're not everything went right for us in our career,
which is nothing. Does we challenge it with sort of
within the group? I think we had really strong connection
with each other, and I think that's the way we
dealt with things. We dealt with it internally together. You know,
we learn early not to believe any hype. You know,
when we're going to New York and everyone's saying, you
guys are going to be the biggest thing. We're going
to stretch limb of fourteen people them there were two
(09:14):
of us getting driven around to interviews and just that
American sense of you guys are going to be huge.
We learned early not to listen. That We learned that
long time ago. So when things don't go well, you
sort of we became insula. We regrouped. I suppose that's
how we did it, you know, just go back and
do what we do, go and write songs, rehearse, stick
to what we know. And you know, we were really
(09:34):
lucky we had good management. You know, that sort of
dealt with a lot of external issues for us. Our
objective is to remain very independent at what's going on
the noise around us.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
So that was something we really pretty impressive. I mean,
you're pretty young guys, and you know, get flown to
New all of SU's happening. It'd be normal for fame
to go to your head a little bit. How do
you guys sound so grand like this? Whole. We just
said to us Alves, we're going to stay level headed.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I think as a Brisbane thing, I think it's a
bit of our upbringing. We're all sort of Southeast Queens well,
mostly Brisbane and one coast coggsy the coast, so friends
wouldn't put up with that shit.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Pull your head in, Jason, I see the great network
of people that would bring you back down to easily.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, we had great relationships with their crew because we
also felt it wasn't asked, it was everybody creating this,
So that was that's part of as well.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
It kind of leads me on to you know, because
people I know because I was in my twenties when
I was like listening to your music and people put
you know, band members on a pedestal. Right, how hard
is it then to stay authentic to who you are?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Like?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Are there times where you know you're having to do interviews,
You've probably got women throwing themselves at you. How hard
is it to see authentic when fame comes into play?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
There was some challenges for us. You know, when someone
tries to put clothes on you that don't look great.
You're a photo shoot, you do two days of photo
shoots and someone puts you in stuff that just you
look like a bunch of idiots. That's hard. You just
have to say no. And we don't look like ourselves,
so we're just musicians. I think also, the fame and
Australia is different from fame in the US. In Australia
you can be a singer songwriter Paul Kelly and still
(11:06):
go and pub and have a bed, you know, on
a Friday night. I just don't think strands put musicians
up on that pedestal like they do in America, where
you walk in a room and everyone claps you. So
I don't think it was a big challenge for us.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
When you say that, do you see yourselves as being
famous in Australia? Is that what you're telling me? Because
I remember being living in the UK and you were big.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I think there's a difference between the band being famous
and the people being famous. You know, I said, we
didn't live in Sydney. We weren't going to every opening,
walking every red carpet, being in who weekly. It wasn't
sort of our thing. Yeah, the bands, I really love
Radiohead and stuff like that, you know they're not doing that.
They're just creating great records.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
So Patifinger went on to become a global success, collecting
five number one albums, eighteen ARE awards, three Opera Awards
and sales and more than two point five million albums.
For the band to split, there would have been a
lot of you know, a lot of thinking, thoughts and emotions.
What was the overwhelming feeling at the time. Did you
know what was next for you?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Was it sort of for me personally?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
No, I had no idea. When we put tools down,
you suddenly realize I don't have to go do anything,
nothing to do, and that's when you sort of saw
the pressure coming off you. And you know, and I
said yes to a lot of things. I can go
that yes because I don't have to ask anyone yes,
I can go yes. And when overseas with the family
and went to Gary Island with my mates, and you know,
all those things I've said no to for years and
(12:17):
spent a year of saying yes, I think, yeah, then
you just have to shake your head and go, what
am I going to do now? I had really no
plans at that stage, which is sort of good.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Were you ready for it to end?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Then? Yes? And no, we could see the ride on
the wall, like we could see the tools and it's
small and end up playing crappy rooms. And that's something
we never really wanted to do. I think we wanted
to sort of go out on our terms. Ye, you know,
that was something we spoke about. I mean, there was
a couple different opinions and how we do what we do.
Someone in the band didn't want to really break up,
just want to take a long break. But in the day,
(12:47):
sort it was a decision. We all came together. It
was a group decision that we all lived with. We
got asked that question about reunions and stuff. We get
on really well as a band.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I wasn't going to ask you that.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, but no, there's no plans I can say it now.
But you know, it's a great thing that we still
get on as friends. We have business together, we're still
releasing records, greatest hits and all those sorts of things.
And so one Night Lonely was a great example for
us getting together as mates again. It's also exciting and sad,
you know. I remember being pretty emotional the last night
at the River stage, like for me and Cogs, I
(13:17):
suppose the drama it was probably difference like burned and
holding and darn, what was going to go and play
in stage? Is that size? Again? I knew it wasn't
for me. Yeah right, it wasn't something I planned to
do and go and play another band. So yeah, it's
felt like that was It took me a while to
get into my next sort of phase of life.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
You took a year off, had a gap year, yes,
yet I call it yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it.
I love that we sort of fast tracked, sort of
wanted to touch on COVID because obviously you were in
the midst of doing things during that period. You know,
it really did change the landscape for the arts and
music scene, and not for the better. It really it
felt like music to shut down. I imagine it may
have been easier to walk away at that time. Like
at the time if you look at twenty nineteen, that
was when you were doing work with the Fortitude Musical.
(13:56):
What's going on for you? Then? Are you just like,
are you bloody kidding me? Like COVID's just hit and
you know, like probably one of the worst times for
this industry.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, it was horrible. I mean we're just open lot
to six months I think before COVID started. The industry
doesn't know what to do, quite honestly, how to recover
from it. At the moment, you know, we were involved
in the festival market with Splendor. Our group was you
see the grassroots music now is struggling to sell tickets.
I found really incredibly unfair that you'd have fifty thousand
people at s own Court Stadium and we're already allowed
(14:25):
thirty per cent of our crowd. That was when I
probably started becoming an advocate for the industry. I sort
of felt like it wasn't so much I wanted to it.
I felt like everyone stood back. I was a guy
standing in the line, only guy left in the line
because I was a bit disappointed in honestly, some of
the industry just didn't get out and fight. And so
with a good friend of mine, came up with a
campaign called play Fair, and we had sporting stars like
(14:46):
Darren Lockyer, Johnny Iil's and celebrities. All these people were
saying it's time to play fair premiere and it wasn't
about how we could make money. It was about how
we could survive as a venue business, and not just
the venues in Queensland. The objective was to bring the
government to the table for discussion, so which it did,
so it was a really great outcome. They didn't want
to change the restrictions on the industry, but they did
(15:07):
offer financial support, which was necessary to keep the lights on.
So a lot of the venues would have closed or
been brought up by multinational companies during COVID. So, yeah,
that was sort of my first, really first time being
exposed out there, sort of rallying for the industry. And
when you do that, you put yourself in that position,
you're going to get your critics.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
You took some time off after the band, the Trippic
was your first decided to move into the background and
the arts and venues, which I think is fantastic. Then
to get hit with that in that period when everything
kind of shut down, did you stop at that moment
and think, maybe this isn't the right path that I've taken,
because you sort of from what I understand, you dabbled
in a few things. You thought you might dabble in
a few things.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Yeah, I looked at motor racing business, looked at buying
a printing business with the mates and stuff like that.
Just you know, silent partner sort of stuff, and I
now I realized that, you know what am I doing?
I love the music industry. It's what I believe, I know.
And with the Triff, I thought there was a gap
for a venue that size in Brisbane.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Was there a bit of a gamble getting there done?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
That was probably the bravest thing did probably right. I
did have a partner and then they pulled out last minute.
So and we're three quarters through the build on financing
at all.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
You with a sensible one, right, but obviously you're taking
a risk not knowing exactly what's going to be on
the other side.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I think I've got that farry into it. I had
to keep going, you know, you just have to work
one step at a time. You know something's not great,
you just sort of go, okay, what's the process from here,
what's the outcoming? And then you work back from the outcome,
you know, found another business partner to come in and
chair on the load financial burden. Yeah, but I was Yeah,
it was pretty exposed at the time.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah. And then the Fortgy Music Valley will starts just
when COVID starts to kick in.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, opens just before COVID, And that was tough, you know,
talking about resilience and things like that. You know, I
think the hardest thing, apart from all the financial burden
and all those challenges, was to keep the staff motivated.
You're so stressed and depressed about it, but you couldn't sharp. Yeah,
you had to be strong at all the Zoom meetings
and whatever you're doing. You just had to be that
resilient looking you know, and then behind doors you're sort
(16:56):
of like, holy, okay, this is pretty bad because I
didn't expect to go on that long spurs, and I
think that was the thing that really drained a lot
of energy industry was just exhausted because we canceled to
move five hundred shows. That's being scheduling, a lot of
work involved in that, just kicking the ball down the
road and having to budget what crystal ball do you want?
(17:18):
But yeah, the tough heart was not showing it, not
showing your vulnerability and to the staff in that period
because they needed to see someone strong.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I do agree people need to have someone steering the ship.
But then at the same token, knowing it's okay that
this is actually quite upsetting and frustrating.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I always made sure that then wee could come and
have a cry on my couch because it was tough
at the end of the day. They need to see
someone out there sort of not moping around saying this
is shit and this is.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Shit so no, and not giving up hope.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I think that your passion for music probably, like if
you weren't in the music industry and had that passion
for it, it could easily have waned a bit. But
surely JC has a way of distressing, like do you
go home and like crank out the guitar, Like what
are you doing to a very chill man.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I play gold fishing. Don't mind a glass of wine
on the end of the week. Who doesn't have for work?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Do you sleep well? Used to busy mind kind of thing? Well,
I'm just looking for personal tips because.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
I sleep really well. I know, I just find out.
It's a little bit different where I'm up at three thirty. Yes, yes,
And that's sort of most nights. It's pretty stressful time
at the moment with everyone with the world the way
it is, and you know, one of our venues is
growing great now that one. It's tough times, so that
keeps you up at night.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, absolutely, For aud I understand the way it always
seems like is that sometimes the musician is the last
person to get the money when it comes to events
and things like that, And so you would have been
on the receiving it of that and your very early days,
particularly before you guys had record labels and were making
good money. Now you're on the other side of the
fence where you run the venues, right, How does that
(18:47):
play out for you? Is there a level of empathy
you have for musicians, particularly starting musicians that sort of
is different the way you interact with them or the
way you run your business.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
The business is sort of pretty standardized across the country
the way people do it, I suppose. The way I
do try to influence that area is to give particularly
young artists great experiences in great space, good writer burgers,
stuff that matters to them. They're not making a lot
of money, they're doing because they love it and really
create a good experience when they enter the venue. That
comes from me, goes through the management, and it works.
(19:18):
It's really well known, particularly the smaller any of the
Triffid where we do go extra extra yards to make
sure the younger artists are treated well. I remember how
much that made a difference. You know, we don't take
merch cuts and stuff like that, so they can pay
their hotel rooms and things like that.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Maybe it's influenced the way you interact with them because
you'd be on the other side.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Definitely has It.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Applies to workforces too, like the power of knowing what
your people go through, right, in this case, what the
musicians are going through, so that you can tailor the
experience for them to be more joyful. Right, that's kind
of all people are hoping for at the end of
the day. What about now that you know, so when
you were back in the band, you know, I'm sure
you had bad manager and someone who dealt with all
the young stuff, let's call it young stuff. Now that
you're on the other side of the fans, you're becoming
(19:57):
across dealing with difficult people in business, lots of red
tape and political decisions, things like that. What do you
find most challenging running businesses?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Now? You know, communicating my team, you know, I just
say if you think we should be strong to speaks
really strong and I'll back you on that, you know,
just given opportunities to do it themselves and stuff, and
I don't want to be the person to have to
come in and sort problems out for them because that
doesn't build relationships and stuff. So I really rely heavily
on the people are putting those positions. And I always
talk about tone stuff too, like an email. So I'm
big on tone. I think tone is everything way you
(20:28):
communicate with people. You can be asked for something really horrible,
but if the tones are right, it's read better. You know,
it's understood.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
You're one of the first people that I've ever said
that to me. Really, Yeah, it's really interesting because I
one hundred percent or deliveries all of it right. And
maybe there's some lovely link here between tone and the
fact that you're a musician. I don't know. Yeah, even
the tone of the melody like can change an emotion
and a feeling. I totally agree. The way you deliver
a message can still be the same message delivered in
a way that doesn't feel.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Instead of putting a big block up. I've had a
couple of people in their tone has been horrible. It's
just been and I wasn't sure if they're arrogant or
they're busy, and could have been both. So I just
have to pick up the phone say hey, am I
misreading this because it was so rudely written and you
know it could have been considered as really aggressive or
was it busy? I just couldn't tell so to me.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
So you see clarity from people where be I don't.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Understand it, you know before I start firing back, because
I think negative tone gives your negative tone back. Yeah,
you know, it's an opportunity to start a little war.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Really for me, it is actually yeah, and it could
be nothing and it could be nothing to do with you,
and so.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, that's one of thing Ilway was talked to the
teams just about making sure the emails and tone is
really important to me.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
If I went and interviewed some of your staff members,
why do you think that they like working for you?
You're a good leader.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
I know what I'd hope they'd say, I've never yelled
at anyone. You don't need to.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I think I believe that they need to.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
You know, you can get your message across firmly without
yelling and abusing people.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Did you grow up in a family like that? Can
I ask? Is that where it came from?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I went to a boarding skills so I feel like
I was.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I feel like, you know, like you would have got
webs there, wouldn't you.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah? Probably literally literally. I suppose just growing up with
you know, hundred city other males and you probably learn
how to be reasonable.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I don't make you more much. I will sort of
like needing to maybe.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I don't know, it's a good question, look at Sorry,
I might need a couch for that one.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I think trying to work out why this man. You've
got a lovely, calm demeanor about you, which I can
imagine employees would feel really receptive to.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yeah, I hope so well. As I said, like, don't
yell at people. I don't like when it gets too
business either. I try to light in the room up occasionally.
We've all got a job to do, Yeah, But I
hate when it gets to the point where that's all
it's about. Because we're working in an industry we all
apparently love. I think it's important to make sure that
we enjoy each other's company in the room and enjoy
each other's work. There's got to be a thing where
you've got to make it not so serious, because it
(22:45):
really frustrates when it comes up, because then it becomes
a big business and that's not what we're about. You know,
we're about experiences. People come to the venues we're it's
about experience of the artists. You create that by creating
team that has the same philosophy, I believe. So that's
the way I've come from, and I just try to
be a good person to them and treating like friends.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I feel that you got the joy part that I'm
a bit obsessed about joy in life, like otherwise it's
a pretty sad existence and it sounds like you're trying
to get some balance with that.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
I also believe. And if someone does something great, just
go and tell them. I think the young generation really
respond to that really well as well. You know that
the people I've got working for us now work hard,
and when they work hard, I think they deserve credit.
You know something really I find important.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Well, it's the one thing that you want to keep
working on when it comes to being a good leader.
Like it's kind of the eerie that you're like, oh yeah,
prob still struggle bit with that.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I struggle with technology, but that's not a leader of
it that.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
I'm going to give you that one. That's fine.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I can't say it. I suppose because I'm older and
you know, teams are quite young. I suppose if I
can just improve my skills that way, then I can
relate to them a little bit easier. Okay, you know,
and I understand social media stuff better. And you know,
I'm glad it wasn't around when pad thing was around
like it is now people are working with a crown
up where it's natural, because then I could probably click
a bit better with them.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah yeah, yeah, uncommon interest to bomb with you.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, so I feel like a bit like they've probably
seen to be a bit dad like something, you know,
because you know, I'm pretty shit at it. So my
start put back that up.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
They fix everything for you. Have you got like giant
font on your phone too?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeap? Oh damn?
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Okay, all right, I'm going to get a couple of questions.
We haven't got much more time so much Mirekeah talks
you about. But I know you inspire many people, But
who inspires you?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yeah, that's a good question. You know, people like Mineralal
inspired us as people their awareness in the community and
what they gave back and the way they used in
the Australian music industry to influence things. And I think
that's inspiring or it's was to us as a band
as well. You know, I get inspired by people like
Paul Patiko, who was a manager a powdered finger who
(24:39):
you know, runs secret sounds and is resilient, explaining the
grass all that sort of stuff. So when you know,
I remember walking in when it was flooded and we
just come out of COVID and I said, Jez, God
does hate rock and roll, doesn't he? Because you know,
it just felt like another hit. People like that inspire
me because they keep on going. Yeah, you know, and
they're close friends, you know, the people I deal with daily.
I think you can be inspired by people who you
(25:00):
work with, can't you. You know, absolutely, there's a lot
of people like that around that I just take little
bits and pieces of inspiration from.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I like that you're kind of looking more in your
inner circle or what you see versus necessarily has to
be something grand or miles away. I love that. I
love that. All right, let's go back to nineteen year
old John. What's the best advice you'd give them today?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Don't sweat their small stuff. Just don't let that stuff
get to you when something happens. I do sweat on it,
and it does bother me a.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Little bit of a warrior, Yeah, I do that, But
I'm a chronic people pleaser, like working on it. Is
that the same?
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yep? I like to have everything clear. I don't want anyone.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Anyone sitting in that space of someone not being happy
and feeling responsible.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
It's really I just like it, and being the band
was good. No one really disliked you. They just didn't
like the band. Not everyone like Pataphing, of course, but
no one was attacking JC.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You know, yeah, protected in there.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, so it was little hidden there. So I suppose
that's just don't smit the small Let that go. Let
it go to the keeper. I'm still working.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
You can't make everyone happy, right.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
No, you know, bloody dry hard.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
It's exhausting though, Like I'm on the same journeys you.
I like that, all right. Last question of the day, Powderfinger,
In fact, any band for that matter, was not an option.
Music is not an option, right, I'm ruling it out.
What would John Collins have done instead? What would I
find you doing?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Probably something like commercial property or something. You know, I've
a lot of friends in that world. Yeah, I just.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I mean, it would have been a really wise choice,
like in the last.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I don't know. That's probably just wor.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
You're too nice to be.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I didn't say I would be good at it. I
didn't say to be good at it.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So if you'd be too honest, that's actually not worth it.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I like dealing with people, and I love playing music,
but I'm playing music is dealing with people. Doing what
I do now is dealing with people. I like being
around people. I prefer to have meetings with people in
seat of zooms. I like the contact with people. So
to me, any job that has.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
That, it has been a pleasure talking to you. Love
the human lovely lead out. Thank you so much for
your time.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
It's been wonderful. Thanks for having me. Thank you
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