August 5, 2024 • 40 mins
“So much of what I do in business I learnt in sport”
Understanding the power of elite sporting teams and applying it to your professional career is a recipe for success. No one knows this better than Karen Brown. As a pharmacy owner, pharmacist, business owner and entrepreneur, she credits much of her success to understanding the power of team sports. Karen bravely explores her journey from the Firebirds to pharmacy and, like any good athlete, opens up about her own areas for growth.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO series.
This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Happy people create happy businesses, true.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Emotionally intelligent leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I've picked up Vombit once on our about our fourth
flight and everybody thought, well, of it's good enough for him.
I can do it now.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
We will be joined by culture and leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Experts and some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us
the truth behind their brave leadership journeys. Today I am
joined by the amazing Karen Brown. Karen Brown is an innovative,
award winning pharmacy owner, pharmacist and entrepreneur. Karen is also
the managing partner of Terry White Kim Mart Aarana Hills
and founder of Batch Tested, Australia's only one stop platform,
(00:54):
guaranteeing athletes have simplified access to batch tested and certified
sports supplement and nutritional rangers. Karen has been recognized for
numerous awards, from Small Business Person of the Year Pharmacy
of the Year. Karen is a member of the advisory
boards for Terry White Kim Mart, University of Queensland School
of Pharmacy, Australasian College of Pharmacy and PSA leadership. She's
(01:15):
also a mum, a wife and a former Queensland Firebird netballer.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Welcome Karen, great to him today. Did I get that
all right? You did so much? I'm sure there I
could have gone on. I reckon actually from some of
the stuff I.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Read when you hear someone read it.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Whilst I know you have a passion for sport and
that playing for Firebirds was a big part of your life,
I'm also fascinated by this link between playing in an
elite team and harnessing that power at work. But I
guess to start off with, I wanted to ask you
for the listeners that don't know, what was your journey
to play for the Firebirds.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
How long did you play for?
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
So I actually our debuted for the Firebirds at nineteen,
which is quite young in the big picture. But I
grew up in a sporting family. So my dad played
rugby league for Australia. My mum, yeah, my mum swum
for Queensland. My brother played rugby for Queensland. So a
very very sporty family. So had always played sport from
a very young age.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So and I'm.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Six foot two, so height was always on my side
as well. And like many young netballers and obviously the
Olympics at the moment, and quite often people go, you know,
had they become an Olympian, But we all start as
kids and you just happen to be good at what
you do, and you just keep going and going and going.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
And I love sport.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
I loved netball, I loved team sports, and I was
kind of lucky privileged. I suppose that it was semi
professional in those days, so we got paid to play,
but you also still worked or were at UNI or
things like that. So I played for three years and
got to probably travel the country playing a sport that
I loved at the same time as being at UNI.
(02:47):
And that was probably the catalyst when as a pharmacist.
I actually knew in grade nine that I wanted to
be a pharmacist.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
So I was like, how do you know that.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I was at a careers information day and I just
thought that looked like a really I knew I want
to help people. I knew I want to be in
health and it just looked like a really pretty place
to work. As a fourteen year old girl back in
the nineties, yes, and the fragrance and all that kind
of stuff. Had no health background in my family, like engineers, lawyers,
et cetera, so it was just something. In year nine,
(03:17):
I was like, I want to be a pharmacist, and
so I missed out to get into pharmacy with my OP.
So I missed out by one school and I was devastated.
I was the kind of straight a student. Everything was
a perfectionism kind of thing, and just missed out. And
so I did science first. But that was a blessing
in disguise because I was offered a scholarship to this
(03:40):
strain Institute of Sport my first year out of school,
and I declined it because you.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Couldn't do pharmacy in Canberra.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
So I stayed in Brisbane and then obviously missed out.
I'm getting into pharmacy, so did science. But by staying
in Brisbane, I then got a contract with the Queensland Firebirds.
Oh yes, And so being able to do science and
the fire birds was manageable. But I would never have
been able to do far pharmacy and firebirds. So I
(04:08):
actually did five beds for three years while I was
doing science. And then when obviously graduated from science. I
then transitioned to pharmacy, and that's when I just made
the decision that I couldn't keep doing netbull full time
pretty much at the same time.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
As doing so that's what I was going to ask you.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Why.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yes, I was like, no, pharmacy is my career. Netble's
a hobby, you know, Pharmacy was it.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So do you look back now and think that you
would change that decision at all?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Or no? And I coached.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
I'm still heavily involved in netball and then obviously with
Match Tested. I love being amongst the athletes in sport
and so much and we'll talk about this more during
the podcast, but so much of what I do in
business is what I learned in sport. It's a huge
part of how I coach my team when I still
call it that, I coach my team at work, my
leadership journey, everything, it's so much relative.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
To what I learned in sport.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Was definitely what I wanted to ask you there.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
And I think it's interesting too that you grew up
I didn't know actually about your mom and dad.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
What was that like growing up with that, like with
a different kind of parents because they were in professional sport.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
No, I think it was just that team environment. And
I suppose I don't remember having high expectations like it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Like a pressure yet that are okay, It was just a.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Love of sport, and so they put you in sport
when you were younger. And then, as I said, both
my brothers and I have all played sport and it.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Was just a huge part of our life.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
And as opposed to say music or that, we were
just in that sport environment and always in team sports
and just what comes with being in a team sport.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
And I do now, yeah, I can agree.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I think if your children have even a remote interest
in sport, I'm like, get them in there. I think
it is so many reasons. I completely agree. But I
wanted to ask, then, what did you learn And it
might not be just what you learned, it might have
been from your parents as well, but what did you
learn at a young age about elite teams?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Like what it takes me in an elite team?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I think it's working together.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Yeah, I think it's always something And even what I
do now, I'm very much about you lead by example.
You know, the hard work, the one percenters. And when
you look at sport, it's everything. It's training, it's your
diligent to training. It's your resilience, you know, you get
knocked down and you get back up again kind of thing.
It's being receptive of all the different people around you
(06:31):
and all the different shapes and sizes that we come
in to make up a team, and that everyone brings
their own little part to collectively make your team successful.
And I think as a leader, that's what you're doing.
You're bringing a group of individuals together for a common goal.
And in my world is whether the common goal is
to win a championship or to have a very successful business,
(06:53):
you as the coach or the leader. And I think
some of the best sporting coaches in the world are
actually the best people managers. They employ these statisticians and
the analysis. Yeah, they are just the best people at
bringing a group of random individuals.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Together to get a result. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
It's interesting though, right because you look at it so
flashback the Firebirds. It seemed from the outside where these
kind of professional teams that everyone is very accepting of
each other, they work together, there's that collective like you say, you're.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Working towards a common goal. One would assume not too
much in fighting, right.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yes, No, well I think as well in a team sport,
you're all there for the same reason, but you're all trying.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
You are competing.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Against each other as well, Like you're trying to go
how do I get that position on the court, how
do I get to be the starting goal shooter? But
that's against your friends. And some of the best things
that come out of sport are the lifelong French Yes,
like they're the memory there. Stuff you remember is actually
all the little things off the court. Yeah, for what
you did together, and it's really interesting. As a little
side note, I went to one of the top girls
(07:56):
schools in Brisbane and it was a massive rowing school
and every year the rowing coach would come to me
and say would you row? And I would say no,
I'm playing net. And then when I retired from the
Five Birds and I was still at UQ, I was
in the gym at the Qas and lo and behold
the rowing coach from school, you know, six years later,
was in there and he's like, I hear you retired
(08:16):
from netbuk, can I get you.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
In a boat now?
Speaker 4 (08:18):
I was like, yeah, I'm uni, let's go down and
row for UQ kind of thing. And I think rowing
is the ultimate team sport, as in one second you're out,
it affects the whole crew. Netball, I could have a
bad day, but the other six players on court could
have a great day. He'll pick up the pieces or
and forty and stuff. But rowing is this phenomenal line
(08:39):
and everyone must be in sync. And yet when I rowed,
I never felt so lonely. And I often think of
it like a production line or lack in business, everyone
is in a silo doing exactly the job they need
to do, and as long as there's this perfect production line,
it all works. But what I missed about, or what
I loved about netball was the face to face you
(09:00):
were all in there. It was kind of so different,
even though they were both team sports.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And I've got crazy you can't even think it's expression
in it.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
But I just felt like it was just these silos
and this production line and something even in business that
I just hate that concept of everyone doing their own
silo job at their desk, etc. And just the beauty
of sport in that particularly nitball or footy or any
of those things. Where it's just that human connection and
being there for each other and yes, you can have
(09:30):
a bad day and that other person can pick you up.
And I think some of the great captains of sporting
teams or some of the great leaders and even when
I think of leadership, it's about inspiring those around you,
Like the really good players make the people around them
look really really good and make them believe in themselves
and lift them up to reach things they didn't think
(09:52):
they could achieve kind of thing. And I think that's
to me how I link back to captaining netball teams.
I was captain at school things like that, so I've
always kind of held leadership positions, but I think it's
always about just trying to get the best out of
it each other and as I said, for that common
goal if we all do well well.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I think that's a point though, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Because I always love the analogy between sport and really
effective teams, Like I think it's just the greatest analogy
out there.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
But I think there's something to be said about passion for.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
What you do, right because like obviously with the sport,
peoplar deeply passioned and connected to it, whereas in some
work environments, it's harder for people to find that connection.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
So do you find like that's the kind of gap sometimes?
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Well, and I think that's something that I'm very blessed
with that. You know, for thirty years now, I've wanted
to be a pharmacist. Yeah, and I was very fortunate. Well,
I suppose you make your own luck kind of thing.
But when I graduated from UNI, was I six seven
Eight months out of graduation, I got offered my first partnership.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So for that happens to six does they normally happen
at it? Not always?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
But ultimately for my whole career as a pharmacist, I've
owned pharmacies. Yeah, So for you know, for most of
my life, that's what I've known as just one career,
one profession.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yes, and I genuinely.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Love it and I feel blessed that I've found my passion.
But I also think passion is infectious, and it is
that ripple effect.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
In the world that is true.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Yeah, you are passionate about what you're doing. That is
infectious amongst your team.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I think being a farmacist is a vocation, right like
for me, I think it differently is I think that's
the challenge in a lot of corporate workforces, right, is
that it's not a vocation for some people, and it
then finding that thing that's going to make them be
passionate is even harder. Yes, so obviously, and I know
there's having known you and even just you talking about
your sporting history, being.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Competitive, right, is part of who you are?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Right?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
How does being competitive help? I think we might know
how it helps, but does it even hinder how you lead?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
That's so interesting.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
So I've done a lot of psychometric testing over my journey,
and one of the ones that I actually really like
the most is the call up Strengths tests, So probably
no surprises. Number one for me is competition, and like
two and three were like drive, focus, strategic achiever like
that were my top five And so quite often I
(12:07):
get that asked a lot. How it does I'm so competitive?
But in the context of I constantly want to be
the best, but bring everyone along on that journey. It's
not about me being better than someone else. How collectively
is a team? Can we be the best? And how
can I get the best out of you? Now, when
it comes to I think of recruitment and the team
(12:29):
and that kind of stuff. How do you employ based
around that that you're really driven and really really competitive
and that can be quite scary for some people. And
what I've learned over the journey is being really upfront
in the recruitment process and being really proud of who
you are as a leader, what your values are as
a team, and really outlining that and the recruitment process
(12:51):
and almost a bit of take it or leave it.
This is either we at Terry White come out around
the hills. We have the concept of the team around
a bus. It's something that has really taken on actually
post when you spoke a cuple years ago at our
ULARU conference. But this concept, and there's quite an aura
around our bus within the industry, so people talk about
(13:12):
our bus quite a bit. But it's the concept of
what does it take to get a ticket on the bus?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
What is your role on the bus? What are you doing?
Speaker 4 (13:20):
What is our fuel supply? What do we do when
we hit a speedbump? What if we turned left and
we should have turned right. I don't shy away from
what it takes to get a ticket on our bus.
I attract people that are driven. I actually hire on drive.
When they talk about attitude or talent actually higher on drive. Okay,
as long as you're driven to achieve something, I will
(13:42):
help you achieve it. It might be a totally different
goal to what we're dealing with, but if you are
driven and you want to learn and you want to
get better, then i'm your person. I will help you
do that. One of my things with pharmacy is you
can be a pharmacist and it's your career and I
could have you for ten fifteen years. But we also
have pharmacy assistants. They might be doing it while they're
(14:03):
at UNI doing law, and they're they're with.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
You for a couple of years.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
You've got part time, you've got full time, you've got
weekend stuff, you've got weekday stuff. It's a very different
mix of people. But always my goal is if you
can leave a better person than when you started with me,
I've done my job. So whether you're with me for
a year, while you're at UNI, whether you're with me
for ten twenty years, if you leave a better person,
then I've done my job with you. And we actually
(14:27):
have a saying in our store, and we're a very
successful store with a lot of awards and things like that.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Is it's not a competition. It's always a competition.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
So we try and beat each other, but it's not
something that I'm this perfectionist about KPIs or we didn't
reach that target or something like that. It's just how
do we have a bit of fun with it, but
also appreciating that not everyone wants to have a competition,
and that's where we do with our KPIs or that
will do individual things or team things.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I've actually employed or one of my teams.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
She's actually been with me since she was fifteen as
a junior. She's now been there nine ten years as.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
She's our chief spirit officer. So it's her and you
could probably guess who it is. You know my team
quite well.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
And Maddie's job is to do those little competitions and
whether it's a team challenge or an individual and really
getting the mixed together of the ones that are super
super driven to compete and the other ones that are
just excited to be a part of the journey kind
of thing.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah, that's awesome. I mean so many things I want
to unpack from that.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I think one of them, say you she touched the recruitment,
which was, as you one of my questions around how
do you ensure you get the right team.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
So I love this. You're honest about what it's going
to be and I think that's very important.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
And I think something I really work on is your
personal brand as a leader. Yeah, I think pharmacists don't
actually do that well. So another side thing to pharmacy
is you have to be a pharmacist in Australia to
own a pharmacy. Yes, but there is no business qualifications
at university. So when you graduate and you ask before
how did I become a partner? So early you either
(16:02):
inherit money or you have a senior partner that goes
I want to bring you in as a junior partner
and give you a ten percent.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Share and etc. And you work your way up.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
So there's no formal business training and a lot of it.
You know, pharmacy is a very dependent industry in our country.
You need to go to a pharmacy to get medicine, etc.
So there's a lot of people that just open the
door and go great. People have to come in to
get stuff. But I think as a leader, what's something
I've really tried to work on is my personal brand
(16:33):
and why would someone want to work for me my team,
and how do I lead differently to the person down
the road. And there's a thousand ads out there in
any job in industry, go and come and join our enthusiastic,
amazing team and we do blah blah blah blah blah
cutting in. So I really try and set up what
is my personal brand as a leader, but what is
(16:54):
our personal brand as a team as well, And that's
what gives that aura about it.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
And I do.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
I get messages on LinkedIn going I want to know
about your bus. Your bus looks really fun. How do
I get a ticket on you bus? So I actually
haven't put an ad out from pharmacists for a very
long time because you just have these little touch points
that you create this intrigue and what would it be
like to work for Karen? What would be like to
be part of her team kind of thing, and so, yeah, recruitment,
(17:19):
And as I said, I don't take it personally anymore
like I used to kind of be like, oh, they
don't like me, or they don't like us, or how.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
We do things.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Actually, we're really really proud of what we do and
we've got the runs on the board as a very
successful pharmacy, which yeah, so take it or leave it,
that's okay. And also, if you are on our bus
and I realize it's not the right bus for you,
I'll help you find another bus, Like I will help you.
I'm not just gonna let you drag or try and
change our direction or slow us down kind of thing.
(17:47):
If it's not right for you, how do I help
you get off the bus.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And find a new one that you are passionate about?
Kind of thing?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I love that, So what about for yourself?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So with competition, there is this fine line within competitive
We're obviously and I use a lot of humans and
juststic LSI surveys, and extreme competitiveness can sometimes be linked
around people's kind of self worth and show up not
always in good ways, which is not what you do.
But what I'm wondering is when you don't get something right.
So let's say you're striving for something. Let's say you're
going for an award and you're hoping a win and
you don't, how do you personally still feel and process disappointment.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I'm mustall lose it.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
But equally, I'm probably in my sporting world and even
I do this with our kids now as well? Is
that that is life? But also I want to kind
of prove them wrong. So how do we do it better?
How do I improve? Like even in sport, if you
got dropped? Yeah, how do I get better? What do
I need to do to improve to get better?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
But it's still how you operate if something, if you
didn't win an award or you didn't get where you wanted.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
To be, how do we do it better? How do
we get better? What do we need to do?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
You ever get feelings of rejection or not good enough
for like self worth or it does.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Not even come into play.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
No, I think it like yes and no.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
But I think there's also that kind of I don't
need validation from powers to be to say we're doing
a good job, Like we know we're doing a good job.
I know you as a staff members doing a really
really good job. You don't need validation from an award
to say great job. And it's something that I suppose
I like the recognition and something as a leader I'm
(19:23):
really big on how do I recognize my team? And
when I talk about leadership and I talk about coaching,
there's an analogy that I use with sport, and I
think old school leadership was this dictorial coach.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Think of them.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
Sitting up in the grandstand barking down orders. I think
start of my journey, I was very much the captain coach,
like I was in there. I was doing everything, leading
by example, setting them up, all that kind of stuff.
And what I've really tried to work on in the
last few years is letting go, realizing that they can
do it on their own, but almost taking on that
(19:58):
cheerleader role, like I want them to be stars in
their own right. I don't want them just to be
known in Karen's team more. They're from team Rana. How
do I get them to be stars? How do I
kind of And that's actually feedback from them. I remember
I really like the quick little check ins of start, stop,
keep yep, and one of them, I remember it was
(20:19):
probably five years ago, one of my junior team went
stop trying to fix everything, like just let us try. Like,
you know, if there was a customer conversation that I
could see was not going the right way, I'd step
in and try and fix it, or I'd try and
solve it, or and they're like, just let us try
and solve it and we'll come.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
To you if we need you to.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
And that was a really good kind of step back
to go actually, don't try and go in and fix everything,
don't try and do everything, just to actually sit back
and almost be proud of yourself that they're in a
position that they can.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Do it on their own and they can flourish.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
And so I feel like I'm in that cheerleader mode
at the moment, which I'm loving. But then also I'm
there if they need and I'll step in if they need,
and I love being there as well. But yet it's
not just the.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
You know, the best leader should be the biggest cheerleader.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Yeah, team, I love that, And how do they It's
not about there's a lot of quotes out there about
you know, being a leader that people want to follow,
But for me, it's how do we go and arm
side by side?
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, and we go together and we win it together?
And I do.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I think it's love it because competitiveness is often seen
it's like this individual.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Thing, but you're really seeing it as a team, which
is out which I think is great.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Now.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I know that obviously we're talking before about your bus right,
which for those who are listening. This is a really
around your purpose and your values and who you guys are.
And I love this because obviously everything to me should
be underpinned by a good purpose, why you exist and
you value tate your show up, what I don't often
see and what you've done really really well should be
keen to explore. Is we tend to see large organizations
have these purpose and value statements which can sometimes just
(21:46):
sit in the wall. You've done it in a small
organization which says it's not limited based on your size, Right,
So how has it helped your team? I mean it
seems to help you hire because people then start to
know about it, it builds a brand, But how else does
it helped you?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And how do you embed it into your day to day?
So it's not just words.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Yeah, I have a real strong belief that people want
to belong to something bigger than themselves. So whether that's
my team wanting to belong, our customers wanting to belong,
our community wanting to belong, etc.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
So I'm really big on creating.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
That environment where you feel like you belong and you're
part of our family kind of thing. And I think
that's a beauty of small business and owner operated small business.
When you're in the thick of it, it's.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
This sense of belonging.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
So we do a few different things and one that's
quite unique in our I suppose in a small team
is we do a shark tank care year. So there's
shark tank. We've done it for a couple of years now,
so it's optional, but everyone does it. Obviously, they come
in and do a pitch, They do a five minute pitch,
and I give them a different theme each year. Yes
there's prize money up for grabs, but it blows my
(22:51):
mind the pitches that they come and do of how
they can improve our business. Or this year it was
just how can we transform the pharmacy? So very open
ended and some of the ideas that they come up with.
But the next step to that is they then are
responsible for that idea, So the execution, the implementations not
(23:12):
to me to take all these ideas and go, okay,
which one are we going to do. The other thing
I like to teach them is the business side of it,
Like when you do this pitch, I want you to
think of.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
It as well, how would I execute it?
Speaker 4 (23:23):
What marketing would I do? What's it going to cost
to do this, what would we charge for it, what's
the profit in it?
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Etc.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Think of it as it's not just this idea, but
what does it entail the whole thing? And then execute it.
And it's amazing because they own that idea. Some of
the best ideas we've got are from them and they
are solely running it on their own.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
And just check in with me.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
What helps you give them so much trust and confidence?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I think it is just believing in them, but that
they're part of this.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
It's not just me getting up there and saying this
is what we're going to do. And I think it's
more than just post it notes on the wall and.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Things like that.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
And I think what you originally said of how do
we implement it each So we have four team values
that we did together that have been consistent now for
quite a few years.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Do more so.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Always go over and above for your team, for yourself,
be proud. Pride is something that's really really important to me.
You take pride in yourself, you take pride in the store,
you take pride in your team. When I'm someone that
is really proud, so you walk around and going, I'm
proud to wear this uniform. I'm proud to be part
of this establishment in whatever shape of my life.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
It's in kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Have fun and then buckle up, so take the road
less traveled, you know, be prepared to go out of
your comfort zone. And so what we do then is
we have a board out the back where we do
shout out, so you shout out every time you see.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
That, so you're kind of right shout.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Out for Emma when she did X y Z hashtag
do more, have fun or whatever it relates to. And
then our awards at the end of the year then
are based on it's a team vote of who do
you think displayed the do more the best, who displays
have fun, etc.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
So really short, sharp, easy.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
But the constant repetition of talking yes, and.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
We talk about it all the time, and so I
think that's yeah. It's just giving them that sense of
belonging and that they've got ownership and they're a big
part of it, and we celebrate with them. And from
the outside within the industry, probably people would say it's
a really high pressured store, but it's actually not. We
have high expectations and we work hard, but gee, we
(25:31):
play hard. And I've always got a thing in recruitment
when I talk to people. If you give me basic,
I'll give you basic. But if you go over and above,
I'll blow you out of the water of what we
can do together, Yeah, what we can achieve together.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
So, and I think it always comes back to that
passion of I genuinely love what I do and it's
kind of old school community pharmacy. I love being part
of the community, and I feel genuinely blessed that I'm
in a career that I've always wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
How do you keep that passionate for yourself? Because I
know that obviously it's something you've got.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
To keep opening new businesses.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Then what it is, no, but I mean it is.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
It is one of those things where I mean, I
know myself there are times where in your life, with various.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Things going on, passion can kind of wane a little, right,
does it? Ever? Weinne with you.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
I think I love the variety and it's something that
I've done. My first ten years of ownership was at
the one store, and it was at Stamford, and it
was my be all and end all kind of thing.
And then I wanted the challenge of let's.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Do it again. And that's why I bought it.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
So across my sixteen years of ownership, I've been a
partner in four different pharmacies. I've got to at the moment,
but this concept of proving to myself that I could
do it again in a very different environment. But then
also I've started batch tested, I've got another business where
we run ownership conferences.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
So I wear a lot of hats.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
I love the variety, and I think even in pharmacy,
I love the variety. I love walking in each day
going I don't know what's going to happen to day,
I don't know what that person's going to need from me,
And people go, gee, you wear a lot of hats.
But there's actually a synergy between all of it. I
think it's just helping people. I want to help people
in pharmacy. I want to help my team be better people.
I want to help my athletes be the best they
can be. I want to help pharmacy owners. So I
(27:08):
like the variety and I'm not just this stuck in
this one thing.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah. Part of your talk to keeping yourself passionate, yeah,
is to keep the variety.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Okay, have you ever gone, Karen. I think you've beten
off more than you can chew.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
My husband says that all the time.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I'm sure that you don't seem to that, you know,
but I want you to know it. Does that actually
happen to you?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
I think it's just I feel like I'd get bored
if I didn't have something. So it's a very interesting
actually I'll share with you. I took two months off
at the start of this year. We went to the
States for a month, and then I gave myself long
service leave for a month. So the kids have gone
back to school, and so it was in February, and
I had a whole month with literally nothing to do.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And traditionally, as a.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Business owner, when you take holidays, it's because you're going
to do something and you've got something planned. So to
actually have a month at home with nothing planned other
than dropping the kids at school and picking them up,
and I really struggled the first week. It was really interesting.
I felt like I had no purpose, I was lazy.
I felt guilty, as in all my life, I've got
(28:12):
up and I've put a uniform on, and I've gone
and achieved something for the day and you get home
and you're like, oh, great, I've done XYZ today.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I did this, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
So it was really weird to just by about week
two or three, the lunchtime movie was really good.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Finally settled.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
But it took me a while because I just was like,
it feels weird, like you're not getting up to get
dressed to go and do something for the day, and
you haven't achieved something yet for the day.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
No.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I mean, there's there's absolute greatness and discipline and the
habits right, and I totally agree. But then I guess,
you know you're a mum, two kids, you know you're
a wife, you know you've got you've got all these businesses.
You must get tired, Karen, would you meet it to anyone?
Because you're a pharmacist, maybe you take the right subthing once.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
I don't know if I get tired, it's probably more.
Sometimes what I'm trying to do better is being in
the moment. I was actually five years this week. I
got the absolute privilege of doing Kakoda in PNG.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
And in the lead up.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
So this was a team of ten Terry White CAMA owners,
plus our CEO and our head of operations. It was
for a charity ivery in Cancer Australia charity partner, and
in the lead up the guy who took us, we
were going to him like all very high powered leaders
going to him going can you tell me? Like I said,
I want to know what's the elevation? How many k's
are we doing each day? Had I done all the
(29:35):
preparation that I possibly could do, He wouldn't tell us anything.
So then each morning he would go, Okay, today we're
going to go up a hill, down a hill, Go here,
go there, But no metrics at all. Okay, And it
was amazing in that it made you stay in the moment.
And there was one it was probably day six. There
(29:55):
was this challenge up a hill and we'd read about
it in books and podcasts that there was this challenge
on day six and ultimately you could race to the top.
You could be in the racing group, or you could
be in the cheering group at the back kind of thing.
And so the guy had said, look, average time is
about half an hour to get up this hill, but
(30:15):
the fastest is probably twenty two minutes kind of thing.
So we said, off, I'd got to watch someoney, give
me their watch. So I had a metric of yeh,
half an hour or less, and I was about fifteen
minutes into it and I was absolutely gassed, Like got
to the point I was like, just pretend my kids
are at the top of the mountain. That'll get me
up that kind of thing. Finally got to the top
(30:36):
in around that half an hour mark, and we were
all very similar, and the guy said, do you know,
that's actually not the hardest hill you've done. There's actually
hills that were way harder than that. But I had
metrics in my head. I knew that I was halfway
up the hill. I knew that I was halfway in
the time or whatever, Whereas every other hill you just
took one step after the other and you eventually got
(30:59):
to the top.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Very true.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
So that real concept of being in the moment, we
had no idea with all the other hills. It's not
like you said, this is a five k hell and
you're going to be up there in an hour.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, this was the only time he gave us metrics.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Yeah, it's amazing the pair of the mind.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
So now that's what I try to do, is this
saying a bee where your feed are? So when I'm
at home. I'm at home, and I don't do it well.
I'm still learning.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
So I wanted to talk a bit about being vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Is it harder to be vulnerable having grown up in
this competitive sport, you know, family, and then you've continued.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
To have that trade throughout your whole life.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
No, I think I've got better at it, and it's
something that I try with my team to be And
this may be a bit more authentic as well. Is
just to show up as me the whole time. This
is me, and I will show my emotions as in,
I'm so proud of you, or that's really disappointing, that
shouldn't have happened, that wasn't what we expected, that wasn't
(31:56):
good enough kind of concept. So I'm getting better with that.
I struggle with empathy. That's my worst one.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
That's your worst one. Yeah, what do you mean by
it's your worst one?
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Well, it's interesting. I'm very tough enough, princess kind of
get on with it.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
The competitiveness.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Yeah, Like, I don't you know someone comes to me
and goes, can I have the day of because my
cat passed away?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Couldn't care less kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Karen is he saying you were like that and we
still That's my hardest thing is that. And yet I'm
a pharmacist. I'm very empathetic when you're sick and I
want to help you and I want to get you better.
But I am really like some people say, you have
no emotion at all, as in, I'm kind of Yeah,
(32:37):
I am pretty hard.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Was that though? Do you think part of growing.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Up and potentially being in the elite sport, you know,
not really right? You make mistakes, dust yourself off and
keep going and.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
You get back yeah, right again.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So there is not a soft side to me.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
But it's in there.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
It isn't there.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
It is in there, and that's what they say. It's
actually a mixture of a lot of other things because
I don't think about the side.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
No, I don't think not, but I think very much
that that line. So when you are coaching the girls
at the moment, yes, what happens if you know one
of them falls over or they're not coping?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Are you instance for them? And their parents are there?
So I do really like, No, I'm good in that space.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
It's probably more the physical stuff I'm as in that empathy.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I think it's probably more the emotional.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Side of it that I don't get caught up in
their emotions.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I struggle to mimic their emotions.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Which you know obviously that that is one element of empathy,
but also it can just be being able.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
To hold space for their emotions.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Right, So even if you're not sitting there, you know,
not pandor about the cat, worried about the cat.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
But it's like, you know, I feel for you.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I appreciate I can see this.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, like I think there's different levels of it, but
I also wanted to ask you about this one.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
So throughout my career, as I've seen women rise up
in the ranks, right, I've seen this big shift towards
as they sort of we'll talk about sort of large
corporates more, but it still applies in business, in small business,
this masculine energy that kind of appears with them as
they go on. And I understand to a degree, right,
especially be sitting at a table and maybe in pharmacy
at your boards are a lot of men at the
table too, And I get the need to bring some
(34:11):
of that masculinity in order to be heard, But I
also feel like there's still room to be strong and feminine.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
How have you found that in your space?
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Yeah, it's very interesting in pharmacy in that there's more
female pharmacists than male, but the ownership space is very big,
male dominated, and even at an executive level, a majority
of our banner groups, etc. I feel like I've always
had a confidence about myself. So as I said to
you earlier, I'm six foot two, so I do have
(34:40):
a presence when I walk into the room, and I've
always backed myself. So when I'm in those environments, I
know I deserve a seat at the table, and so
I'm actually quite confident that in that arena, and I
do have an aura about me, so I don't kind
of hold back. But it is also I think it's
the other thing for me is women supporting women and
how we actually have got so many friends that are
(35:03):
female owners and we do we really are each other's cheerleaders,
which is really really good. But also it's I think
it's having an amazing support team around you, like when
people say to you, how do you do it? All?
Have an extremely supportive husband, of extremely supportive parents, and
I also think of my daughter who's thirteen, and even
my son that yes, you have that mum guilt, but
(35:25):
you're showing them just how you can be this strong,
independent woman and if you follow your dreams and you're successful,
that that's all great and it's okay, and don't shy
away from that.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
You know.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I've got that self belief, in that self confidence that
I know I deserve to be there. Yeah, and that
you know, and I play my role as well. But
I'm also not about quotas and fifty I'm just like,
who is the best person for that role? And be
there and if you're sitting at the table, you make
the most of that seat at the table, and you
want to make a difference.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Completely agree.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
You actually touched a point there when you talked about
we're talking about the kids.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
I think we sort of mentioned earlier. I know that
I feel that I've had to make some.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Sacrifices terms of you know, I pre pick you and
I maybe we were the least present in Prepa. Never
did a touch shop, never did the duck shop, never
did the drive offs and pick ups. It was like
almost a year there. I don't even think I really
attended that school. And people were like, does she exist?
So that guilt like it's there but like I manage it.
I guess I want to know from you what sacrifices
(36:25):
to have such success in your professional career.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Do you feel you've had to make of any along
the way?
Speaker 4 (36:32):
I suppose I try not to think of them as sacrifices.
I think of what I'm creating for our family and
the example that I'm sharing with them, but also quality
over quantity. I really try. Yes, I'm not going to
be the mum that's doing tuck shop, and that's even now.
I suppose when I look at the kids, for me,
it's giving back of being the netball coach. It's true
(36:52):
and things like that. It was really interesting as I
coach the opens. My daughter's in grade eight now, and
I never realized the impact it had on her for
me coaching the team like absolutely loves it. The sceniors
know her because she's my mini manager. She's the cheerleader.
Like she thinks I'm the coolest mum in the world
because I coach the senior netbool team at school kind
(37:15):
of thing.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yes, I might not do tuck shop yeap, But how
do I give.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
Back in other ways and lead by example but involve
them as well? And yes, I'm not the mom that
gets caught up.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
In the clicks at school and you know, I just
don't have time.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
No, So I think leaders know that you never need
to stop improving, right, So what is your biggest area
still to grow?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Well, I just want to keep learning.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
I think leadership just keeps evolving, people keeping like the
challenges of managing people now, yes, so different.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, it was you being so successful and so capable.
And look, we are all born with certain gifts, you know,
and abilities, and you have got an ability to take
on a lot and to stay quite calm and measured
through that, right and to when you hit hurdles.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
How can I learn from that?
Speaker 2 (38:01):
That's the skill that not everybody has, right, but it
could be for some people it's almost unattainable what you're
able to do. And that empathy, then is the ability
to connect and to see that there's she still experiences
paying and challenges. Yes, so that's sort of what you mean.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Absolutely, And as you say, I think it's just being
authentic and even on the outside it can look all roses,
but it doesn't mean every day goes perfectly or the
team is always humming along in our bus, Like there's.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Always speed bumps in that.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
But as I said, I come back to that variety
and the challenge and it doesn't actually steer me away.
And I think that's sport that no game ever went perfectly. No,
you know everyone can win either correct exactly.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
So it's how do you get better?
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (38:41):
And how do you keep what are those little one
percenters that we can do? And even when I look
at it from a business, you know, we can be
very successful, but I constantly want to be how do
we innovate? How do we do that slightly different? Could
we try this? Could we be the first one to
do that kind of thing? So it's constantly just wanting
to do the one. So it's not like I have massive,
big goals or you know some people go start your
(39:05):
own pharmacy brand. Do you want to be an empire?
I'm like no, actually, just I love what I'm doing
and just the little things of how can we do
that better? How can we And yes, if it is
buying another store, how do I turn that around?
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (39:18):
You know, I think of what I've done at Irana
Hills in the six years that I've had it. How
do we turn that around? How do I take that
from this kind of not performing business or underperforming business
to one of the best in the country. Yeah, let's
go and do it again. How do I do that
with a different group of people kind of things?
Speaker 3 (39:33):
So well, my last chushiankarent, this has been a great conversation.
I've loved it.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
If you could go back to nineteen year old Karen
at the Firebirds, what's the best advice should give her today?
Speaker 4 (39:42):
When that door opens, just walk in and say yes.
And I've always tried to do that and something I
always teach one door closes, another one opens, but even
if it's just slightly a jar, just push it open,
walk in, say yes, and work. And one of my
favorite sayings is build a plane while you're flying it. Yeah,
it's not about we can procrastinate dotting I's crossing teeth.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Just get say yes, work it out.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
After that kind of couldn't agree more, h couldn't.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
There's so many people out there I think that are
sitting on ideas and you know, so much planning and
then just go take that first.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
And that's what I do with my team, Like what
have we got to lose? Ultimately?
Speaker 4 (40:18):
What have you got to might cost you a bit
of money to do some marketing, and you realize that
didn't quite work well.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
How do we adapt it? What do we do differently?
And I get for some people with the plane analogy,
pack your.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Parachute, But ultimately, let's just build it as we go
and push that door open, say yes, and work it
out afterwards.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Love it. Thank you, Karen, thank you,
Appoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO series.
This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Happy people create happy businesses, true.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Emotionally intelligent leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I've picked up Vombit once on our about our fourth
flight and everybody thought, well, of it's good enough for him.
I can do it now.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
We will be joined by culture and leadership.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Experts and some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us
the truth behind their brave leadership journeys. Today I am
joined by the amazing Karen Brown. Karen Brown is an innovative,
award winning pharmacy owner, pharmacist and entrepreneur. Karen is also
the managing partner of Terry White Kim Mart Aarana Hills
and founder of Batch Tested, Australia's only one stop platform,
(00:54):
guaranteeing athletes have simplified access to batch tested and certified
sports supplement and nutritional rangers. Karen has been recognized for
numerous awards, from Small Business Person of the Year Pharmacy
of the Year. Karen is a member of the advisory
boards for Terry White Kim Mart, University of Queensland School
of Pharmacy, Australasian College of Pharmacy and PSA leadership. She's
(01:15):
also a mum, a wife and a former Queensland Firebird netballer.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
Welcome Karen, great to him today. Did I get that
all right? You did so much? I'm sure there I
could have gone on. I reckon actually from some of
the stuff I.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Read when you hear someone read it.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Whilst I know you have a passion for sport and
that playing for Firebirds was a big part of your life,
I'm also fascinated by this link between playing in an
elite team and harnessing that power at work. But I
guess to start off with, I wanted to ask you
for the listeners that don't know, what was your journey
to play for the Firebirds.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
How long did you play for?
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
So I actually our debuted for the Firebirds at nineteen,
which is quite young in the big picture. But I
grew up in a sporting family. So my dad played
rugby league for Australia. My mum, yeah, my mum swum
for Queensland. My brother played rugby for Queensland. So a
very very sporty family. So had always played sport from
a very young age.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So and I'm.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Six foot two, so height was always on my side
as well. And like many young netballers and obviously the
Olympics at the moment, and quite often people go, you know,
had they become an Olympian, But we all start as
kids and you just happen to be good at what
you do, and you just keep going and going and going.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
And I love sport.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
I loved netball, I loved team sports, and I was
kind of lucky privileged. I suppose that it was semi
professional in those days, so we got paid to play,
but you also still worked or were at UNI or
things like that. So I played for three years and
got to probably travel the country playing a sport that
I loved at the same time as being at UNI.
(02:47):
And that was probably the catalyst when as a pharmacist.
I actually knew in grade nine that I wanted to
be a pharmacist.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
So I was like, how do you know that.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I was at a careers information day and I just
thought that looked like a really I knew I want
to help people. I knew I want to be in
health and it just looked like a really pretty place
to work. As a fourteen year old girl back in
the nineties, yes, and the fragrance and all that kind
of stuff. Had no health background in my family, like engineers, lawyers,
et cetera, so it was just something. In year nine,
(03:17):
I was like, I want to be a pharmacist, and
so I missed out to get into pharmacy with my OP.
So I missed out by one school and I was devastated.
I was the kind of straight a student. Everything was
a perfectionism kind of thing, and just missed out. And
so I did science first. But that was a blessing
in disguise because I was offered a scholarship to this
(03:40):
strain Institute of Sport my first year out of school,
and I declined it because you.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Couldn't do pharmacy in Canberra.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
So I stayed in Brisbane and then obviously missed out.
I'm getting into pharmacy, so did science. But by staying
in Brisbane, I then got a contract with the Queensland Firebirds.
Oh yes, And so being able to do science and
the fire birds was manageable. But I would never have
been able to do far pharmacy and firebirds. So I
(04:08):
actually did five beds for three years while I was
doing science. And then when obviously graduated from science. I
then transitioned to pharmacy, and that's when I just made
the decision that I couldn't keep doing netbull full time
pretty much at the same time.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
As doing so that's what I was going to ask you.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Why.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Yes, I was like, no, pharmacy is my career. Netble's
a hobby, you know, Pharmacy was it.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So do you look back now and think that you
would change that decision at all?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Or no? And I coached.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
I'm still heavily involved in netball and then obviously with
Match Tested. I love being amongst the athletes in sport
and so much and we'll talk about this more during
the podcast, but so much of what I do in
business is what I learned in sport. It's a huge
part of how I coach my team when I still
call it that, I coach my team at work, my
leadership journey, everything, it's so much relative.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
To what I learned in sport.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Was definitely what I wanted to ask you there.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
And I think it's interesting too that you grew up
I didn't know actually about your mom and dad.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
What was that like growing up with that, like with
a different kind of parents because they were in professional sport.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
No, I think it was just that team environment. And
I suppose I don't remember having high expectations like it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Like a pressure yet that are okay, It was just a.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Love of sport, and so they put you in sport
when you were younger. And then, as I said, both
my brothers and I have all played sport and it.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Was just a huge part of our life.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
And as opposed to say music or that, we were
just in that sport environment and always in team sports
and just what comes with being in a team sport.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
And I do now, yeah, I can agree.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I think if your children have even a remote interest
in sport, I'm like, get them in there. I think
it is so many reasons. I completely agree. But I
wanted to ask, then, what did you learn And it
might not be just what you learned, it might have
been from your parents as well, but what did you
learn at a young age about elite teams?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Like what it takes me in an elite team?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I think it's working together.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Yeah, I think it's always something And even what I
do now, I'm very much about you lead by example.
You know, the hard work, the one percenters. And when
you look at sport, it's everything. It's training, it's your
diligent to training. It's your resilience, you know, you get
knocked down and you get back up again kind of thing.
It's being receptive of all the different people around you
(06:31):
and all the different shapes and sizes that we come
in to make up a team, and that everyone brings
their own little part to collectively make your team successful.
And I think as a leader, that's what you're doing.
You're bringing a group of individuals together for a common goal.
And in my world is whether the common goal is
to win a championship or to have a very successful business,
(06:53):
you as the coach or the leader. And I think
some of the best sporting coaches in the world are
actually the best people managers. They employ these statisticians and
the analysis. Yeah, they are just the best people at
bringing a group of random individuals.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Together to get a result. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
It's interesting though, right because you look at it so
flashback the Firebirds. It seemed from the outside where these
kind of professional teams that everyone is very accepting of
each other, they work together, there's that collective like you say, you're.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Working towards a common goal. One would assume not too
much in fighting, right.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yes, No, well I think as well in a team sport,
you're all there for the same reason, but you're all trying.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
You are competing.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Against each other as well, Like you're trying to go
how do I get that position on the court, how
do I get to be the starting goal shooter? But
that's against your friends. And some of the best things
that come out of sport are the lifelong French Yes,
like they're the memory there. Stuff you remember is actually
all the little things off the court. Yeah, for what
you did together, and it's really interesting. As a little
side note, I went to one of the top girls
(07:56):
schools in Brisbane and it was a massive rowing school
and every year the rowing coach would come to me
and say would you row? And I would say no,
I'm playing net. And then when I retired from the
Five Birds and I was still at UQ, I was
in the gym at the Qas and lo and behold
the rowing coach from school, you know, six years later,
was in there and he's like, I hear you retired
(08:16):
from netbuk, can I get you.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
In a boat now?
Speaker 4 (08:18):
I was like, yeah, I'm uni, let's go down and
row for UQ kind of thing. And I think rowing
is the ultimate team sport, as in one second you're out,
it affects the whole crew. Netball, I could have a
bad day, but the other six players on court could
have a great day. He'll pick up the pieces or
and forty and stuff. But rowing is this phenomenal line
(08:39):
and everyone must be in sync. And yet when I rowed,
I never felt so lonely. And I often think of
it like a production line or lack in business, everyone
is in a silo doing exactly the job they need
to do, and as long as there's this perfect production line,
it all works. But what I missed about, or what
I loved about netball was the face to face you
(09:00):
were all in there. It was kind of so different,
even though they were both team sports.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And I've got crazy you can't even think it's expression
in it.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
But I just felt like it was just these silos
and this production line and something even in business that
I just hate that concept of everyone doing their own
silo job at their desk, etc. And just the beauty
of sport in that particularly nitball or footy or any
of those things. Where it's just that human connection and
being there for each other and yes, you can have
(09:30):
a bad day and that other person can pick you up.
And I think some of the great captains of sporting
teams or some of the great leaders and even when
I think of leadership, it's about inspiring those around you,
Like the really good players make the people around them
look really really good and make them believe in themselves
and lift them up to reach things they didn't think
(09:52):
they could achieve kind of thing. And I think that's
to me how I link back to captaining netball teams.
I was captain at school things like that, so I've
always kind of held leadership positions, but I think it's
always about just trying to get the best out of
it each other and as I said, for that common
goal if we all do well well.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I think that's a point though, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Because I always love the analogy between sport and really
effective teams, Like I think it's just the greatest analogy
out there.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
But I think there's something to be said about passion for.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
What you do, right because like obviously with the sport,
peoplar deeply passioned and connected to it, whereas in some
work environments, it's harder for people to find that connection.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
So do you find like that's the kind of gap sometimes?
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Well, and I think that's something that I'm very blessed
with that. You know, for thirty years now, I've wanted
to be a pharmacist. Yeah, and I was very fortunate. Well,
I suppose you make your own luck kind of thing.
But when I graduated from UNI, was I six seven
Eight months out of graduation, I got offered my first partnership.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
So for that happens to six does they normally happen
at it? Not always?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
But ultimately for my whole career as a pharmacist, I've
owned pharmacies. Yeah, So for you know, for most of
my life, that's what I've known as just one career,
one profession.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yes, and I genuinely.
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Love it and I feel blessed that I've found my passion.
But I also think passion is infectious, and it is
that ripple effect.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
In the world that is true.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Yeah, you are passionate about what you're doing. That is
infectious amongst your team.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I think being a farmacist is a vocation, right like
for me, I think it differently is I think that's
the challenge in a lot of corporate workforces, right, is
that it's not a vocation for some people, and it
then finding that thing that's going to make them be
passionate is even harder. Yes, so obviously, and I know
there's having known you and even just you talking about
your sporting history, being.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Competitive, right, is part of who you are?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Right?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
How does being competitive help? I think we might know
how it helps, but does it even hinder how you lead?
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
That's so interesting.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
So I've done a lot of psychometric testing over my journey,
and one of the ones that I actually really like
the most is the call up Strengths tests, So probably
no surprises. Number one for me is competition, and like
two and three were like drive, focus, strategic achiever like
that were my top five And so quite often I
(12:07):
get that asked a lot. How it does I'm so competitive?
But in the context of I constantly want to be
the best, but bring everyone along on that journey. It's
not about me being better than someone else. How collectively
is a team? Can we be the best? And how
can I get the best out of you? Now, when
it comes to I think of recruitment and the team
(12:29):
and that kind of stuff. How do you employ based
around that that you're really driven and really really competitive
and that can be quite scary for some people. And
what I've learned over the journey is being really upfront
in the recruitment process and being really proud of who
you are as a leader, what your values are as
a team, and really outlining that and the recruitment process
(12:51):
and almost a bit of take it or leave it.
This is either we at Terry White come out around
the hills. We have the concept of the team around
a bus. It's something that has really taken on actually
post when you spoke a cuple years ago at our
ULARU conference. But this concept, and there's quite an aura
around our bus within the industry, so people talk about
(13:12):
our bus quite a bit. But it's the concept of
what does it take to get a ticket on the bus?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
What is your role on the bus? What are you doing?
Speaker 4 (13:20):
What is our fuel supply? What do we do when
we hit a speedbump? What if we turned left and
we should have turned right. I don't shy away from
what it takes to get a ticket on our bus.
I attract people that are driven. I actually hire on drive.
When they talk about attitude or talent actually higher on drive. Okay,
as long as you're driven to achieve something, I will
(13:42):
help you achieve it. It might be a totally different
goal to what we're dealing with, but if you are
driven and you want to learn and you want to
get better, then i'm your person. I will help you
do that. One of my things with pharmacy is you
can be a pharmacist and it's your career and I
could have you for ten fifteen years. But we also
have pharmacy assistants. They might be doing it while they're
(14:03):
at UNI doing law, and they're they're with.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
You for a couple of years.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
You've got part time, you've got full time, you've got
weekend stuff, you've got weekday stuff. It's a very different
mix of people. But always my goal is if you
can leave a better person than when you started with me,
I've done my job. So whether you're with me for
a year, while you're at UNI, whether you're with me
for ten twenty years, if you leave a better person,
then I've done my job with you. And we actually
(14:27):
have a saying in our store, and we're a very
successful store with a lot of awards and things like that.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Is it's not a competition. It's always a competition.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
So we try and beat each other, but it's not
something that I'm this perfectionist about KPIs or we didn't
reach that target or something like that. It's just how
do we have a bit of fun with it, but
also appreciating that not everyone wants to have a competition,
and that's where we do with our KPIs or that
will do individual things or team things.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I've actually employed or one of my teams.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
She's actually been with me since she was fifteen as
a junior. She's now been there nine ten years as.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
She's our chief spirit officer. So it's her and you
could probably guess who it is. You know my team
quite well.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
And Maddie's job is to do those little competitions and
whether it's a team challenge or an individual and really
getting the mixed together of the ones that are super
super driven to compete and the other ones that are
just excited to be a part of the journey kind
of thing.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah, that's awesome. I mean so many things I want
to unpack from that.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I think one of them, say you she touched the recruitment,
which was, as you one of my questions around how
do you ensure you get the right team.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
So I love this. You're honest about what it's going
to be and I think that's very important.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
And I think something I really work on is your
personal brand as a leader. Yeah, I think pharmacists don't
actually do that well. So another side thing to pharmacy
is you have to be a pharmacist in Australia to
own a pharmacy. Yes, but there is no business qualifications
at university. So when you graduate and you ask before
how did I become a partner? So early you either
(16:02):
inherit money or you have a senior partner that goes
I want to bring you in as a junior partner
and give you a ten percent.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Share and etc. And you work your way up.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
So there's no formal business training and a lot of it.
You know, pharmacy is a very dependent industry in our country.
You need to go to a pharmacy to get medicine, etc.
So there's a lot of people that just open the
door and go great. People have to come in to
get stuff. But I think as a leader, what's something
I've really tried to work on is my personal brand
(16:33):
and why would someone want to work for me my team,
and how do I lead differently to the person down
the road. And there's a thousand ads out there in
any job in industry, go and come and join our enthusiastic,
amazing team and we do blah blah blah blah blah
cutting in. So I really try and set up what
is my personal brand as a leader, but what is
(16:54):
our personal brand as a team as well, And that's
what gives that aura about it.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
And I do.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
I get messages on LinkedIn going I want to know
about your bus. Your bus looks really fun. How do
I get a ticket on you bus? So I actually
haven't put an ad out from pharmacists for a very
long time because you just have these little touch points
that you create this intrigue and what would it be
like to work for Karen? What would be like to
be part of her team kind of thing, and so, yeah, recruitment,
(17:19):
And as I said, I don't take it personally anymore
like I used to kind of be like, oh, they
don't like me, or they don't like us, or how.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
We do things.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
Actually, we're really really proud of what we do and
we've got the runs on the board as a very
successful pharmacy, which yeah, so take it or leave it,
that's okay. And also, if you are on our bus
and I realize it's not the right bus for you,
I'll help you find another bus, Like I will help you.
I'm not just gonna let you drag or try and
change our direction or slow us down kind of thing.
(17:47):
If it's not right for you, how do I help
you get off the bus.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And find a new one that you are passionate about?
Kind of thing?
Speaker 3 (17:53):
I love that, So what about for yourself?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So with competition, there is this fine line within competitive
We're obviously and I use a lot of humans and
juststic LSI surveys, and extreme competitiveness can sometimes be linked
around people's kind of self worth and show up not
always in good ways, which is not what you do.
But what I'm wondering is when you don't get something right.
So let's say you're striving for something. Let's say you're
going for an award and you're hoping a win and
you don't, how do you personally still feel and process disappointment.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I'm mustall lose it.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
But equally, I'm probably in my sporting world and even
I do this with our kids now as well? Is
that that is life? But also I want to kind
of prove them wrong. So how do we do it better?
How do I improve? Like even in sport, if you
got dropped? Yeah, how do I get better? What do
I need to do to improve to get better?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
But it's still how you operate if something, if you
didn't win an award or you didn't get where you wanted.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
To be, how do we do it better? How do
we get better? What do we need to do?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
You ever get feelings of rejection or not good enough
for like self worth or it does.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Not even come into play.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
No, I think it like yes and no.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
But I think there's also that kind of I don't
need validation from powers to be to say we're doing
a good job, Like we know we're doing a good job.
I know you as a staff members doing a really
really good job. You don't need validation from an award
to say great job. And it's something that I suppose
I like the recognition and something as a leader I'm
(19:23):
really big on how do I recognize my team? And
when I talk about leadership and I talk about coaching,
there's an analogy that I use with sport, and I
think old school leadership was this dictorial coach.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Think of them.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
Sitting up in the grandstand barking down orders. I think
start of my journey, I was very much the captain coach,
like I was in there. I was doing everything, leading
by example, setting them up, all that kind of stuff.
And what I've really tried to work on in the
last few years is letting go, realizing that they can
do it on their own, but almost taking on that
(19:58):
cheerleader role, like I want them to be stars in
their own right. I don't want them just to be
known in Karen's team more. They're from team Rana. How
do I get them to be stars? How do I
kind of And that's actually feedback from them. I remember
I really like the quick little check ins of start, stop,
keep yep, and one of them, I remember it was
(20:19):
probably five years ago, one of my junior team went
stop trying to fix everything, like just let us try. Like,
you know, if there was a customer conversation that I
could see was not going the right way, I'd step
in and try and fix it, or I'd try and
solve it, or and they're like, just let us try
and solve it and we'll come.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
To you if we need you to.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
And that was a really good kind of step back
to go actually, don't try and go in and fix everything,
don't try and do everything, just to actually sit back
and almost be proud of yourself that they're in a
position that they can.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Do it on their own and they can flourish.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
And so I feel like I'm in that cheerleader mode
at the moment, which I'm loving. But then also I'm
there if they need and I'll step in if they need,
and I love being there as well. But yet it's
not just the.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
You know, the best leader should be the biggest cheerleader.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Yeah, team, I love that, And how do they It's
not about there's a lot of quotes out there about
you know, being a leader that people want to follow,
But for me, it's how do we go and arm
side by side?
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, and we go together and we win it together?
And I do.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
I think it's love it because competitiveness is often seen
it's like this individual.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Thing, but you're really seeing it as a team, which
is out which I think is great.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Now.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I know that obviously we're talking before about your bus right,
which for those who are listening. This is a really
around your purpose and your values and who you guys are.
And I love this because obviously everything to me should
be underpinned by a good purpose, why you exist and
you value tate your show up, what I don't often
see and what you've done really really well should be
keen to explore. Is we tend to see large organizations
have these purpose and value statements which can sometimes just
(21:46):
sit in the wall. You've done it in a small
organization which says it's not limited based on your size, Right,
So how has it helped your team? I mean it
seems to help you hire because people then start to
know about it, it builds a brand, But how else does
it helped you?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And how do you embed it into your day to day?
So it's not just words.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Yeah, I have a real strong belief that people want
to belong to something bigger than themselves. So whether that's
my team wanting to belong, our customers wanting to belong,
our community wanting to belong, etc.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
So I'm really big on creating.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
That environment where you feel like you belong and you're
part of our family kind of thing. And I think
that's a beauty of small business and owner operated small business.
When you're in the thick of it, it's.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
This sense of belonging.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
So we do a few different things and one that's
quite unique in our I suppose in a small team
is we do a shark tank care year. So there's
shark tank. We've done it for a couple of years now,
so it's optional, but everyone does it. Obviously, they come
in and do a pitch, They do a five minute pitch,
and I give them a different theme each year. Yes
there's prize money up for grabs, but it blows my
(22:51):
mind the pitches that they come and do of how
they can improve our business. Or this year it was
just how can we transform the pharmacy? So very open
ended and some of the ideas that they come up with.
But the next step to that is they then are
responsible for that idea, So the execution, the implementations not
(23:12):
to me to take all these ideas and go, okay,
which one are we going to do. The other thing
I like to teach them is the business side of it,
Like when you do this pitch, I want you to
think of.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
It as well, how would I execute it?
Speaker 4 (23:23):
What marketing would I do? What's it going to cost
to do this, what would we charge for it, what's
the profit in it?
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Etc.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Think of it as it's not just this idea, but
what does it entail the whole thing? And then execute it.
And it's amazing because they own that idea. Some of
the best ideas we've got are from them and they
are solely running it on their own.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
And just check in with me.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
What helps you give them so much trust and confidence?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I think it is just believing in them, but that
they're part of this.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
It's not just me getting up there and saying this
is what we're going to do. And I think it's
more than just post it notes on the wall and.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Things like that.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
And I think what you originally said of how do
we implement it each So we have four team values
that we did together that have been consistent now for
quite a few years.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Do more so.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Always go over and above for your team, for yourself,
be proud. Pride is something that's really really important to me.
You take pride in yourself, you take pride in the store,
you take pride in your team. When I'm someone that
is really proud, so you walk around and going, I'm
proud to wear this uniform. I'm proud to be part
of this establishment in whatever shape of my life.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
It's in kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
Have fun and then buckle up, so take the road
less traveled, you know, be prepared to go out of
your comfort zone. And so what we do then is
we have a board out the back where we do
shout out, so you shout out every time you see.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
That, so you're kind of right shout.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Out for Emma when she did X y Z hashtag
do more, have fun or whatever it relates to. And
then our awards at the end of the year then
are based on it's a team vote of who do
you think displayed the do more the best, who displays
have fun, etc.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
So really short, sharp, easy.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
But the constant repetition of talking yes, and.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
We talk about it all the time, and so I
think that's yeah. It's just giving them that sense of
belonging and that they've got ownership and they're a big
part of it, and we celebrate with them. And from
the outside within the industry, probably people would say it's
a really high pressured store, but it's actually not. We
have high expectations and we work hard, but gee, we
(25:31):
play hard. And I've always got a thing in recruitment
when I talk to people. If you give me basic,
I'll give you basic. But if you go over and above,
I'll blow you out of the water of what we
can do together, Yeah, what we can achieve together.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
So, and I think it always comes back to that
passion of I genuinely love what I do and it's
kind of old school community pharmacy. I love being part
of the community, and I feel genuinely blessed that I'm
in a career that I've always wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
How do you keep that passionate for yourself? Because I
know that obviously it's something you've got.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
To keep opening new businesses.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Then what it is, no, but I mean it is.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
It is one of those things where I mean, I
know myself there are times where in your life, with various.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Things going on, passion can kind of wane a little, right,
does it? Ever? Weinne with you.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
I think I love the variety and it's something that
I've done. My first ten years of ownership was at
the one store, and it was at Stamford, and it
was my be all and end all kind of thing.
And then I wanted the challenge of let's.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Do it again. And that's why I bought it.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
So across my sixteen years of ownership, I've been a
partner in four different pharmacies. I've got to at the moment,
but this concept of proving to myself that I could
do it again in a very different environment. But then
also I've started batch tested, I've got another business where
we run ownership conferences.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
So I wear a lot of hats.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
I love the variety, and I think even in pharmacy,
I love the variety. I love walking in each day
going I don't know what's going to happen to day,
I don't know what that person's going to need from me,
And people go, gee, you wear a lot of hats.
But there's actually a synergy between all of it. I
think it's just helping people. I want to help people
in pharmacy. I want to help my team be better people.
I want to help my athletes be the best they
can be. I want to help pharmacy owners. So I
(27:08):
like the variety and I'm not just this stuck in
this one thing.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah. Part of your talk to keeping yourself passionate, yeah,
is to keep the variety.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Okay, have you ever gone, Karen. I think you've beten
off more than you can chew.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
My husband says that all the time.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I'm sure that you don't seem to that, you know,
but I want you to know it. Does that actually
happen to you?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
I think it's just I feel like I'd get bored
if I didn't have something. So it's a very interesting
actually I'll share with you. I took two months off
at the start of this year. We went to the
States for a month, and then I gave myself long
service leave for a month. So the kids have gone
back to school, and so it was in February, and
I had a whole month with literally nothing to do.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And traditionally, as a.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
Business owner, when you take holidays, it's because you're going
to do something and you've got something planned. So to
actually have a month at home with nothing planned other
than dropping the kids at school and picking them up,
and I really struggled the first week. It was really interesting.
I felt like I had no purpose, I was lazy.
I felt guilty, as in all my life, I've got
(28:12):
up and I've put a uniform on, and I've gone
and achieved something for the day and you get home
and you're like, oh, great, I've done XYZ today.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I did this, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
So it was really weird to just by about week
two or three, the lunchtime movie was really good.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Finally settled.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
But it took me a while because I just was like,
it feels weird, like you're not getting up to get
dressed to go and do something for the day, and
you haven't achieved something yet for the day.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
No.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I mean, there's there's absolute greatness and discipline and the
habits right, and I totally agree. But then I guess,
you know you're a mum, two kids, you know you're
a wife, you know you've got you've got all these businesses.
You must get tired, Karen, would you meet it to anyone?
Because you're a pharmacist, maybe you take the right subthing once.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
I don't know if I get tired, it's probably more.
Sometimes what I'm trying to do better is being in
the moment. I was actually five years this week. I
got the absolute privilege of doing Kakoda in PNG.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
And in the lead up.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
So this was a team of ten Terry White CAMA owners,
plus our CEO and our head of operations. It was
for a charity ivery in Cancer Australia charity partner, and
in the lead up the guy who took us, we
were going to him like all very high powered leaders
going to him going can you tell me? Like I said,
I want to know what's the elevation? How many k's
are we doing each day? Had I done all the
(29:35):
preparation that I possibly could do, He wouldn't tell us anything.
So then each morning he would go, Okay, today we're
going to go up a hill, down a hill, Go here,
go there, But no metrics at all. Okay, And it
was amazing in that it made you stay in the moment.
And there was one it was probably day six. There
(29:55):
was this challenge up a hill and we'd read about
it in books and podcasts that there was this challenge
on day six and ultimately you could race to the top.
You could be in the racing group, or you could
be in the cheering group at the back kind of thing.
And so the guy had said, look, average time is
about half an hour to get up this hill, but
(30:15):
the fastest is probably twenty two minutes kind of thing.
So we said, off, I'd got to watch someoney, give
me their watch. So I had a metric of yeh,
half an hour or less, and I was about fifteen
minutes into it and I was absolutely gassed, Like got
to the point I was like, just pretend my kids
are at the top of the mountain. That'll get me
up that kind of thing. Finally got to the top
(30:36):
in around that half an hour mark, and we were
all very similar, and the guy said, do you know,
that's actually not the hardest hill you've done. There's actually
hills that were way harder than that. But I had
metrics in my head. I knew that I was halfway
up the hill. I knew that I was halfway in
the time or whatever, Whereas every other hill you just
took one step after the other and you eventually got
(30:59):
to the top.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Very true.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
So that real concept of being in the moment, we
had no idea with all the other hills. It's not
like you said, this is a five k hell and
you're going to be up there in an hour.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah, this was the only time he gave us metrics.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
Yeah, it's amazing the pair of the mind.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
So now that's what I try to do, is this
saying a bee where your feed are? So when I'm
at home. I'm at home, and I don't do it well.
I'm still learning.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
So I wanted to talk a bit about being vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Is it harder to be vulnerable having grown up in
this competitive sport, you know, family, and then you've continued.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
To have that trade throughout your whole life.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
No, I think I've got better at it, and it's
something that I try with my team to be And
this may be a bit more authentic as well. Is
just to show up as me the whole time. This
is me, and I will show my emotions as in,
I'm so proud of you, or that's really disappointing, that
shouldn't have happened, that wasn't what we expected, that wasn't
(31:56):
good enough kind of concept. So I'm getting better with that.
I struggle with empathy. That's my worst one.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
That's your worst one. Yeah, what do you mean by
it's your worst one?
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Well, it's interesting. I'm very tough enough, princess kind of
get on with it.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
The competitiveness.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Yeah, Like, I don't you know someone comes to me
and goes, can I have the day of because my
cat passed away?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Couldn't care less kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Karen is he saying you were like that and we
still That's my hardest thing is that. And yet I'm
a pharmacist. I'm very empathetic when you're sick and I
want to help you and I want to get you better.
But I am really like some people say, you have
no emotion at all, as in, I'm kind of Yeah,
(32:37):
I am pretty hard.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Was that though? Do you think part of growing.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Up and potentially being in the elite sport, you know,
not really right? You make mistakes, dust yourself off and
keep going and.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
You get back yeah, right again.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
So there is not a soft side to me.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
But it's in there.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
It isn't there.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
It is in there, and that's what they say. It's
actually a mixture of a lot of other things because
I don't think about the side.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
No, I don't think not, but I think very much
that that line. So when you are coaching the girls
at the moment, yes, what happens if you know one
of them falls over or they're not coping?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Are you instance for them? And their parents are there?
So I do really like, No, I'm good in that space.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
It's probably more the physical stuff I'm as in that empathy.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I think it's probably more the emotional.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Side of it that I don't get caught up in
their emotions.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I struggle to mimic their emotions.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Which you know obviously that that is one element of empathy,
but also it can just be being able.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
To hold space for their emotions.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Right, So even if you're not sitting there, you know,
not pandor about the cat, worried about the cat.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
But it's like, you know, I feel for you.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I appreciate I can see this.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
Yeah, like I think there's different levels of it, but
I also wanted to ask you about this one.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
So throughout my career, as I've seen women rise up
in the ranks, right, I've seen this big shift towards
as they sort of we'll talk about sort of large
corporates more, but it still applies in business, in small business,
this masculine energy that kind of appears with them as
they go on. And I understand to a degree, right,
especially be sitting at a table and maybe in pharmacy
at your boards are a lot of men at the
table too, And I get the need to bring some
(34:11):
of that masculinity in order to be heard, But I
also feel like there's still room to be strong and feminine.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
How have you found that in your space?
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Yeah, it's very interesting in pharmacy in that there's more
female pharmacists than male, but the ownership space is very big,
male dominated, and even at an executive level, a majority
of our banner groups, etc. I feel like I've always
had a confidence about myself. So as I said to
you earlier, I'm six foot two, so I do have
(34:40):
a presence when I walk into the room, and I've
always backed myself. So when I'm in those environments, I
know I deserve a seat at the table, and so
I'm actually quite confident that in that arena, and I
do have an aura about me, so I don't kind
of hold back. But it is also I think it's
the other thing for me is women supporting women and
how we actually have got so many friends that are
(35:03):
female owners and we do we really are each other's cheerleaders,
which is really really good. But also it's I think
it's having an amazing support team around you, like when
people say to you, how do you do it? All?
Have an extremely supportive husband, of extremely supportive parents, and
I also think of my daughter who's thirteen, and even
my son that yes, you have that mum guilt, but
(35:25):
you're showing them just how you can be this strong,
independent woman and if you follow your dreams and you're successful,
that that's all great and it's okay, and don't shy
away from that.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
You know.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I've got that self belief, in that self confidence that
I know I deserve to be there. Yeah, and that
you know, and I play my role as well. But
I'm also not about quotas and fifty I'm just like,
who is the best person for that role? And be
there and if you're sitting at the table, you make
the most of that seat at the table, and you
want to make a difference.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
Completely agree.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
You actually touched a point there when you talked about
we're talking about the kids.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
I think we sort of mentioned earlier. I know that
I feel that I've had to make some.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Sacrifices terms of you know, I pre pick you and
I maybe we were the least present in Prepa. Never
did a touch shop, never did the duck shop, never
did the drive offs and pick ups. It was like
almost a year there. I don't even think I really
attended that school. And people were like, does she exist?
So that guilt like it's there but like I manage it.
I guess I want to know from you what sacrifices
(36:25):
to have such success in your professional career.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
Do you feel you've had to make of any along
the way?
Speaker 4 (36:32):
I suppose I try not to think of them as sacrifices.
I think of what I'm creating for our family and
the example that I'm sharing with them, but also quality
over quantity. I really try. Yes, I'm not going to
be the mum that's doing tuck shop, and that's even now.
I suppose when I look at the kids, for me,
it's giving back of being the netball coach. It's true
(36:52):
and things like that. It was really interesting as I
coach the opens. My daughter's in grade eight now, and
I never realized the impact it had on her for
me coaching the team like absolutely loves it. The sceniors
know her because she's my mini manager. She's the cheerleader.
Like she thinks I'm the coolest mum in the world
because I coach the senior netbool team at school kind
(37:15):
of thing.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yes, I might not do tuck shop yeap, But how
do I give.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
Back in other ways and lead by example but involve
them as well? And yes, I'm not the mom that
gets caught up.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
In the clicks at school and you know, I just
don't have time.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
No, So I think leaders know that you never need
to stop improving, right, So what is your biggest area
still to grow?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Well, I just want to keep learning.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
I think leadership just keeps evolving, people keeping like the
challenges of managing people now, yes, so different.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, it was you being so successful and so capable.
And look, we are all born with certain gifts, you know,
and abilities, and you have got an ability to take
on a lot and to stay quite calm and measured
through that, right and to when you hit hurdles.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
How can I learn from that?
Speaker 2 (38:01):
That's the skill that not everybody has, right, but it
could be for some people it's almost unattainable what you're
able to do. And that empathy, then is the ability
to connect and to see that there's she still experiences
paying and challenges. Yes, so that's sort of what you mean.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Absolutely, And as you say, I think it's just being
authentic and even on the outside it can look all roses,
but it doesn't mean every day goes perfectly or the
team is always humming along in our bus, Like there's.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Always speed bumps in that.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
But as I said, I come back to that variety
and the challenge and it doesn't actually steer me away.
And I think that's sport that no game ever went perfectly. No,
you know everyone can win either correct exactly.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
So it's how do you get better?
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (38:41):
And how do you keep what are those little one
percenters that we can do? And even when I look
at it from a business, you know, we can be
very successful, but I constantly want to be how do
we innovate? How do we do that slightly different? Could
we try this? Could we be the first one to
do that kind of thing? So it's constantly just wanting
to do the one. So it's not like I have massive,
big goals or you know some people go start your
(39:05):
own pharmacy brand. Do you want to be an empire?
I'm like no, actually, just I love what I'm doing
and just the little things of how can we do
that better? How can we And yes, if it is
buying another store, how do I turn that around?
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (39:18):
You know, I think of what I've done at Irana
Hills in the six years that I've had it. How
do we turn that around? How do I take that
from this kind of not performing business or underperforming business
to one of the best in the country. Yeah, let's
go and do it again. How do I do that
with a different group of people kind of things?
Speaker 3 (39:33):
So well, my last chushiankarent, this has been a great conversation.
I've loved it.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
If you could go back to nineteen year old Karen
at the Firebirds, what's the best advice should give her today?
Speaker 4 (39:42):
When that door opens, just walk in and say yes.
And I've always tried to do that and something I
always teach one door closes, another one opens, but even
if it's just slightly a jar, just push it open,
walk in, say yes, and work. And one of my
favorite sayings is build a plane while you're flying it. Yeah,
it's not about we can procrastinate dotting I's crossing teeth.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Just get say yes, work it out.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
After that kind of couldn't agree more, h couldn't.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
There's so many people out there I think that are
sitting on ideas and you know, so much planning and
then just go take that first.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
And that's what I do with my team, Like what
have we got to lose? Ultimately?
Speaker 4 (40:18):
What have you got to might cost you a bit
of money to do some marketing, and you realize that
didn't quite work well.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
How do we adapt it? What do we do differently?
And I get for some people with the plane analogy,
pack your.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Parachute, But ultimately, let's just build it as we go
and push that door open, say yes, and work it
out afterwards.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Love it. Thank you, Karen, thank you,
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