January 20, 2025 • 39 mins
Matt probably shouldn’t be here to tell his tale. But the fact that he is is an extraordinary example when a person chooses to take control of their life.
Matt bravely shares his story that navigates the world of addiction, crime, mental health, and homelessness. But it also shines a light on what can happen when just one person believes in you.
How your life can transform and how you can achieve success in love, life, and your career no matter how challenging your life has been. He’s full of love, passion, and an overwhelming drive to live every day to its fullest. He’s inspiring, lovable, and definitely one of my favourite people.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Approache Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Brave Always, the CEO Series.
This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Happy people create happy businesses, true.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vomit once on our
about our fourth flight, and.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Everybody thought, well, if it's good enough for him, I
can do it now.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and
some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth
behind their brave leadership journeys.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Welcome to a new series of Brave Always.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Today in the studio, I'm joined by the beautiful man,
Matt Cratick. Matt is the Chief Growth Officer at Tactic.
He's also a brand ambassador for Saint Vini's CEO Sleepout.
The CEO of Sleepod is an annual event where people
instead of CEO or business ownership positions, take to sleeping
on a piece of cardboard for the night to experience
(01:01):
what it might be a fraction of what life is
like as a homeless person. And I participated this year,
and we'll talk more about Savini's a bit later in
the chat, but that's how I met Matt, And yeah,
look what a character like I feel like we've become
little best buddies since. To be honest, there's so much
love about you, and a lot of I guess in
relation to what I do with Brave is the fact
that for me, Matt.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
You kind of personify it.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Mate.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
We know that Brave is old, resilient, authentic, vulnerable, empathetic.
But when I look at not just your story and
what your life has been like, but the way you
choose to approach life now, all of it, it's just
like Brave one steries.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Frankly, it's very kind. So I was really excited to
have you on here to have a bit of a chat.
And so I know you're born in Western.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Sydney and that if I'm fairly typical upbringing twelve, your
parents split and you went to live with your dad,
who himself started battling with alcohol at that time.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So then we're at fifteen years of age and the
reality is by this.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Point you've started living on the streets, probably dabbling in
drugs and getting into trouble. I was thinking about this
right because a guy I met the other day, his
son is fourteen, and he was saying to me he's
skipping school.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
He's punched holes in.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
The wall exactly how it started for me.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
And he's a really nice guy and he said to me,
I don't know what to do, And I just instantly
thought of you. And when you said it started, like that?
Was it your parents breaking up? Was it dad?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And the drink?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Was there one thing you can actually think of that
started for you? Because as a parent of sons, I'm like,
how do you prevent this?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
It's hard? Man, Like, I remember when I was like twelve,
I got diagnosed with ad D, and I remember we
went to see these doctors and they medicated me with ridlin,
which I didn't realize back then is essentially speed. It's
the same chemical as speed. Yes, And what it does
to a kid with ADHD is it calms them down,
whereas a kid without ADHD it hypes them up. Right.
(02:42):
So it's a pretty powerful example that we're all built differently.
For some of us that would work and some of
us it wouldn't. So anyway, I remember being at this
lunch with my mum and dad. They hadn't split quite then,
but it was a celebratory lunch. It's like we're celebrating
because we now know why Matt's such a problem child.
We found the answer. You know, Like I just probably
felt a bit icky as a kid, do you know
what I mean? I was a troubled kid. I was
(03:02):
a pain in the ass. I was a lot for
my parents to handle. But that got particularly worse when
I went to live with Dad. Dad had become an alcoholic,
and he was always a my hero, right Like, he
was the guy that I looked up to. He was
a proud company man, and I thought I had the
best dad in the world. And what happened for Dad
is that his mom died, and his best friend died,
and he lost his twenty year marriage to my mother
by cheating on it with a colleague at work. So
(03:24):
he lost his twenty year career with his company. So
his whole world started falling over. And if I look
back now with a bit more smarts about me today,
what I realized is my dad just didn't understand how
to cope. He didn't have the emotional tools in place
to be able to handle that amount of trauma. And
so what my dad did is he just drank and
just wrote himself off, and he didn't know how to
deal with emotions. You know, his father was hard ass
(03:46):
Ukrainian Dad's dad used to slap him silly. That worked
for him.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
So you know, was it the tough love approach?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Because I'm thinking of it, like I always like to
think of like an opportunity for someone listening to there's
a lot of kids out there being diagnosed with adhd
AD is similarly in a similar challenging age.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
What could your parents have done differently that might have
helped you.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Look, I was a trouble kid. I was angry, you know,
I was punching holes in all these walls. I think
what happened in hindsight is essentially I didn't have the
male role model in my life that I needed the
time that I needed it. And for young men, I
just think that's so important. That's a part of what
I try and do today. People ask me all the time, Hey, Maddie,
(04:25):
is there anything that could have happened that could have
changed your life? Like? Is there anything that could have
stopped you from going down that path? The answer in
my case is no, probably not because of such arrogant
little shit. But if there was one thing, it would
be and I'm not trying toot my own horn, but
it would be if I'd met someone like me who's
had all the shit that I thought was cool, did
all the things that I thought were glamorous, came out
(04:46):
the other side and said, listen, buddy, let me show
you a better way, and let me tell you why. Maybe,
just maybe, if I'd met someone at the crossroad in
that moment that could have sort of put me under
their wing and taught me how to live a productive
I mean, I just had so much ability and the
will could have been my host, but I just funneled
it in the wrong direction.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I'll be sharing the podcast with my friend and get
a son to listen to it, honestly thinking that. Okay,
So the next fifteen years of your life, so between
kind of like fifteen and seat of early thirties, took
a path of drug addiction, drug dealing, and criminal activity.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
What comes to mind you sort of like looking back
at that period, what was it like?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Look, you know, there was good times, there was bad times.
There was certainly no strategy or planning or anything like that,
which is a big part of my life today. And
I don't know many people that wake up and going,
you know what I'm going to be. I'm going to
be a drug addictor right, that's what I want to be.
I want to be a drug dealer. I mean, sure
there's probably people out there that do, but I certainly didn't.
And I had a big future ahead of me in sport,
(05:42):
and you know, I was a great young athlete and
there was this massive future ahead of me. Well what happens, right,
and then you start getting involved in drugs and you know,
you're on the streets at fifteen, so you're writing yourself
off and you're taking drugs to not deal with any
of the emotional stuff that's going on for you, and
you just naturally progress towards that play. So I remember
being a kid and thinking how dark that world was
(06:04):
and how I couldn't never be a part of that.
You did think that, oh yeah, when I was a
little boy, like I was like, oh man, I could
never be one of them, And yet here I am,
and I would, you know, naturally gravitate towards that world.
And by the time I'm madeen, you know, I'm a
full blown drug addict. I'm dealing drugs, I'm making money
from dealing drugs, and you just get wrapped up in it,
and you know, the more that you do, the more
(06:24):
of that world you get involved in. And you know,
when you're a drug addict, you're just thinking about the
next hit and that's all that really matters. And you know,
suddenly you wake up it's ten years later and in
jail cell somewhere, and you know the cloud's apart and
you've just been living in a cloud for a decade,
and you just go, how did I get here? Like?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I know you, like you talk to the fact that
you've overdosed. Do you remember at any point going I
don't want to do this anymore? Did that come in.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
All the time, all the time? Yeah, that was a
battle for me for fifteen years, maybe more. I would
always have that part of me that was like, this
is not who I meant to be. Like that never
left me honestly. Ever, Okay, ever, there was this moment
where I'd write myself off for three or four days,
I'd have a sleep. As soon as I'd wake up,
I'd just be like what am I doing. I'd have
(07:08):
these moments where I like, no, I'm not going to
do it anymore, and the next day I'd be back
on it.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Were you afraid of dying?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
No, not at all. I look back at my life
now as sad as it is, it's just not something
that crossed my mind. Yeah, honestly, like it just didn't
cross my mind. It does now, Like you know, I
love my life now.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I have to ask, so, having not been familiar with
gang life and what this might look like, one thing
I do kind of know in my fascination with team dynamics, right,
because I think it's down to that team dynamic right
and for good or bad purposes. When you feel like
you're part of something, can I ask you that heavier
drug use that you've had over your life, does that
still effect you now?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Definitely? Neurologically it does. Yeah, absolutely, My lungs are pretty shit.
I've got some neurological damage. Outside of that, I can't
have children. They're probably the big ones. Yeah. And you know,
I would say to anyone listening, like men, drugs will
take a time on you, like they really will. I've
got so many great friends who who are really battling
(08:07):
with their mental health at my age, and that's because
of the shit they put their body through when we
were younger. You don't see it now, you don't feel
it now feels great. We'll having a good time, mate,
You're going to pay for that. There's a trade off,
make no mistake about it. A time is going to come.
And you know, when I was a kid and people
saying that, I'm like, yeah, you know it. He's talk
about blah blah blah. The time will come where you're
(08:27):
going to regret doing what you've done. And it's such
a horrible big part about culture today, like drugs are everywhere.
I used to think the world was a really dark place.
In fact, I thought it was just complete darkness. But
when you're in darkness, that's what it looks like. You know.
Now on the other side, and I've got to tell you,
the world is a beautiful, beautiful place filled with amazing,
(08:49):
beautiful people and experiences, and you know, the world is
what you choose it to be. We only get one crack.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Speaking of dark places.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Obviously, you did do a stint in prison for six
I think six months that so I have to ask again.
I don't think I've ever met anyone who's actually in prison.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Was as horrible as.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
It sounds, I wouldn't recommend it.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Was it like what we see on TV.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And you spend hours in deep reflection on your own
or are you joining forces with people?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Deep reflection at the time for me, But it's shit.
It's designed to be shit, and I don't recommend it
to anyone. And it's soul destroying, I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
But that's not the way you turned your life around.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
It's like an animal. I mean, it's the worst. So
the problem with it is bashing someone over the head
with punishment, in my view, is not the right way
to solve the problem. Rehabilitating someone is people are at
different levels have broken, and that's just human nature. We're
all broken to a degree, right, some of us, once
again much less so than others. And I look back
(09:47):
at my life and realized it was a series of
traumatic events that really threw me off course. I had
to identify that at some point. And then I've spent
the last sort of eleven years trying to fix that,
build new things on top of that, and I've made
massive mistakes along the way where I've buggered that right up,
like royally, But then I've gone, okay, don't do that,
(10:09):
Like that was a big mistake. How do I fix that?
How do I correct that? How do I make that better?
Every day I'm greater and I do better.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Like you say, you make mistakes as you're a human being. Yeah,
how do you not let that knock you down?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I've become someone that's highly accountable. It's one of my
really important values is accountability. So I fundamentally believe that
you'll never grow unless you take your medicine. So you've
got to own your own shit, right, Like you go, Okay,
this is I really got to fix this. I've buggered
this up, and if I want to fix it, I've
got to own it completely. So that's a really really
important part of my life. You know, I'm just seeing
(10:43):
someone that loves learning lessons the hard way, but once
I learn them, I'll keep them.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Completely shifted your perspective, something goes wrong, Hey, this is
my big growth moment.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
The thing about giving up all the bad stuff, right,
all the naughty stuff, is what it forces you to
do rain hailer shine, whether you like it or not,
is you've got to sit in your emotions. It's not
an easy thing for anyone to do, and what it
means is fear, anxiety, anger, turmoil, regret, remorse, guilt, pain, injustice,
(11:13):
all of those things when they come knocking at the door,
you've got to stand there and just hang out with them,
and you've got to figure a way out of that.
That is really hard to do. But if you do
it long enough, what actually happens is there's a moment
in time where it sort of switches and you go, shit,
I actually got through that, and I'm still here. I'm
not drinking, I'm not taking drugs, I'm not doing any
(11:35):
that dumb stuff. No problem. I got through it. And eventually,
once you get that moment, you realize the next piece
of fear, anxiety, you know, remorse, whatever those things are
that are coming. It's almost like, Okay, I can do that.
I can do that, I can stand here, bring it on.
And then you get to a point down the road
where you're like, you know what, a bit of anxiety,
no problem, But of fear, let's go. I'm ready to
(11:56):
rock and roll. And that's a superpower.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I think this is like literally some of the best
advice you could give people, because the inability to sit
with emotions is why ninety more people turn to any
kind of structure where there's drug, sex, your alcohol, whatever
it is. And hands up, I have done the exact
same things at times, but I completely agree with you.
We are so afraid of I think for people like me,
(12:19):
it's because I want to fix it. And sometimes you
cannot fix it. You just got to sit with it.
But I love this idea that you're building, this muscle.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
If you can come to the realization that life is
just a set of problems, that's what it is. It's
one problem after another. Why do we teach our world
that they have to run from that? Why should you
be scared or afraid of a problem? And it's all
about the way you feel, right, It's all about how
things make you feel. But if you can say we'll
hang on, life is actually going to be one set
of problems after another. Like you wake up, there will
(12:48):
be problems that are coming at you. Think of them
like a brick wall, right, like most people want to
run away backwards. They want to run left, right, over it,
under it. That's just their human nature. And I'm like,
oh no, I can take them head on. I'm good.
I can stand there and punch my way straight through it.
Only am I okay with it? I'm expecting it. I'm
ready for it. It's coming, I know it is. And
(13:08):
if you can get to that place that's kind of
game over. You know.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I love this. I love this.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I wanted to ask you about ego because I feel
like in the world that you lived in for many years,
big egos, right, play big part. Of course, in the
world you're in now, and we'll get to that, but
in your business life as well, in my perspective, we
come across, especially in senior roles, a lot of ego
as well. Do you agree or do you think from
now experiencing that on both sides of the spectrum, what
(13:33):
is it?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
The core of it? Is it I'm not good enough?
What drives these egos?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I think it's different for different people. My whole life
was this ego fueled rollercoaster, right. And I don't know
if you've ever hung out with someone you don't.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Like, oh, try not too bad.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I mean I have not today.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Not to thank God, that'd be awkward.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Not today. But if you've ever hung out with someone
you really don't like, right, think about that feeling, Oh shit,
I really wish I wasn't here. I'd love to get
out of here, Like Jesus, this person does my head.
Then imagine hanging out with that person for fifteen years, right. Essentially,
that is what was happening in my life, this battle
of opposing forces, one of which was my ego, which
(14:13):
was this out of control monster, and the other was
my soul, which was quite a delicate, you know, kind
caring soul, right, and they were just completely opposing forces,
and essentially my ego took complete control. I mean I
almost remember the day. Yeah, listen, buddy, get out of
the way. I'll take it from here. And probably not
(14:35):
even until many years after I gave up the naughty stuff, right,
I gave up all the gear and you know, really
started working with a psychologists and just sort of tried
to figure out the world, started reading books about growth
and development. I started to realize that that was what
was going on. Your ego is your eternal enemy. I mean,
it's the only eternal enemy you've got. You've got to
keep that in check.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Do you keep yours in check?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Now?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Where's your ego at?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Now?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Yeah? I really do. My fiance is a really good
part of that. Sometimes she'll give me a metaphorical kick
up the pants. A really important part of development, stop
is getting good at building a network of people around
you that are good human beings that love and care
about you genuinely for no other reason than they just
love the person that you are, and that can take
(15:18):
quite a while.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
The scaffolding around you.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
You've got to have the right scaffolding, but you've also
got to be someone that's approachable. I know so many
people out there in the world that are victims of
their own crazy ego. But part of the problem is
they're unapproachable. They won't let anyone tell them otherwise. If
you want to be an efficient leader, a great leader,
you really need to understand emotional intelligence. And there's an
argument out there in the community that emotional intelligence you've
(15:42):
either got it or you don't. I think that's bullshit
because I had the emotional intelligence of a stone, and
I would like to think now that I've got a lot.
What I do believe is that to build emotional intelligence,
the key word for me is you have to become
someone that's reflective. And I had zero reflectionabilities back in
the day. I was leaving a bullety gate a moment
(16:02):
at a time, whereas today reflect twenty four to seven.
It's a gift, but it could almost be a curse too,
right if you let it out of control. So for me,
it's more about the where, and if you really focus that,
then what you do is you become this leader. Like
when I had my business and I could say to
my hey, guys, I need you to tell me how
I can be better for you now, no leader, well
(16:25):
nowhere near enough leaders do that because they think they're
meant to know all the answers right, which is bullshit.
You know, if I have ever had a leader, and
I have had leaders like that where they're like, hey, listen,
you know, I really want to know how you feel
about the way that I've been leading you, and you know,
are there opportunities for me to do anything that would
make your experience hear better. I had a leader that
(16:46):
did that to me once and I just fell off
my chair. I'm like, what, I who are you? You
can do that? You're allowed to say that you're the boss?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Is the vulnerability they're showing as well?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
It is a retractive It is amazing and immediately that vulnerability,
it's a superpower. When you show someone vulnerability, what you're doing.
The psychology behind that is that they're going, Wow, this
person just gave me something very precious and beautiful. I
feel like I should give them something back. That's what
happens every dog.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
It breeds it.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
It's the hacker to connection, right, And my view, I
just need to sort of bring you back then, to
you make a choice at this moment to step away
from this life, a life you've known.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Now.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I know that this was also around the same time
as you found out that your dad had been killed.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Dad actually died thirteen years ago on Monday. And I
was thirty when I found out Dad died. And at
the time, I was at the height of my crazy lifestyle,
and I was in a penthouse and Adelaide partying, and
I'd received the call from my mum. Hadn't spoken to
her in a long time. We'd sort of had a
very patchy relationship at that point, i'd sort of pushed
(17:49):
all my family out of my life. Basically, she rang
up and said, made I'm really sorry to tell you,
and your dad's just been killed and we think he
may have been murdered. And people always go, oh, was
your dad involved in that, Well, no, he wasn't. He
was an accountant. He lived a very normal life, but
he'd become an alcoholic and that really he spun me
out of control. I just always assumed there'd be more
time to tell Dad that I loved him. I had
(18:10):
in the back of my mind this thought that, you know,
one day, when I quote unquote get my shit together,
you know, I can patch my relationship up with my hero,
telling him your fault, my fault. Who cares? I just
love you, you know, like you're my dad. I love you.
It just really sent me off the rails. And I
mean I was already such a horrible drug addict looking
back now, subconsciously, I just started killing myself with drugs
(18:30):
and ended up getting kicked out of my club because
I was taking too many drugs, which is you know, I.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Mean, how do you get kicked out of the club.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Well, I can't go on the graphic detail, but obviously
it wasn't good. No, it wasn't good. Most people don't
realize this, but ice is such a horrible drug. People
don't understand this. But every outlaw motorcycle club in Australia
has been the use of that drug within their ranks. Wow,
that's a fact, right, I was breaking the rules, right,
(18:56):
So I ended up leaving the club and then I
moved over back to Sydney and I was living in
a park. And you know, I'm now thirty two.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Obviously you don't get to take any of your money
with you.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Everything was just spent gone. I'm probably about thirty two
by now. So I'm in the park and it was
this park in western Sydney. And mate, this is the slumps.
I mean, I've had the crazy life where I had
a great family when I was a kid, ended up
on the streets for you know, two or three years,
got off the streets, made some money, I legally gained,
lived like a rock star for a while, and now
(19:26):
I'm back in a park, right. I mean, I was
just tired. I was exhausted. I could see no way out.
There was this horrible ice addiction. I was doing shitty
little street crimes to provide for my habit. I was
probably about sixty kilos. I'm ninety two now. I was
really sick and I was very mentally unwell. You know,
I was hearing voices and all sorts of stuff, and
I'd be sleeping once every three nights. I just got
(19:47):
to the point where I'm like, mate, I don't have
the strength to go on. I'd pushed everyone out of
my life. There was no one that would answer a
phone call to me. It was the pits. I made
a decision that day I was going to end my life.
You know, I had a pen and paper there I
wrote all letter to my mum and my little brother.
I hadn't seen him for a long time, and I
just said, listen, I love you, guys. I'm so sorry.
I just don't understand how my life got to this place.
(20:08):
But please know it's not your fault. This is me.
I buggered this out, and I love you, and I'm
just so sorry. Because I knew it was going to
really hurt them, I went to kill myself. And just
as I was about to, and I mean as close
as it gets, I had this vision of my little
brother and I planned around the Christmas tree and it
would have been nineteen eighty eight and Adam would have
been three and I would have been seven. And there's
(20:30):
this big, beautiful tree in our house, and we're at
our family home, and my mum and dad were on
the lambs together and they looked so happy and full
of joy, and there's unwrapped presents all over the floor,
and there big beautiful green Christmas tree with a gold
star on top, and red and green tensil all around it,
and here I am literally about to kill myself, and
I can see my little brother running around the Christmas tree,
(20:51):
and there was this one particular moment where he turned
around and looked up at me, and I could seize
three year old little face and he just lit up
like I was his hero. You know, I can still
see it now, that look about him when he just
turned around and he just looked up at me like
I was his big brother, He's big hero. And I'd
forgotten that I hadn't even thought of those things for many,
many years. So at the last moment, I changed my
(21:12):
mind and I decided I wasn't going to end my
life and that I was going to try and fight.
And I walked down I think it was like four
kilometers to an internet cafe because they were a thing
back then, and I punched in rehab. You know, this
place came up with the Salvation Army on the Central
coast and I rang them up and I said, this
mean I need some help, and told this lady in
(21:33):
my story, she's bowling her eyes out on the other end.
And I got in there three months later.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, I know, during part of this journey is where
I think the big chef came for you, Like obviously
not taking your life's a big chef, right, So you've
been making this going to rehab huge chef, But you
were still an angry man when you went into it.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
One hundred percent. Yeap, very very broken, very angry. In fact,
I would say I was a very angry, broken fifteen
year old boy in a thirty two year old man's
body is what I was. And he couldn't say that
to me at the time. I would have slapped you,
but not you, but that's what it was, right. So
I'm in this rehabit, I'm walking around like I'm the
a rehab like what to claim to fame? That is
at thirty two, there's two hundred other clients. That was
a really big one, walk around like I run the show.
(22:10):
And had this great case worker, a really good guy.
His name was Jimmy and he'd been through the shit
that I'd been through and come out the other end.
So that was really important and that was very intentional
on the director's behalf to put me with that guy, right. Yeah,
he was really smart. He just let me run my
own race for a while, gave me a bit of
rogue and eventually some shit would happen, and he pulled
me in and so listen, now it's not for you and
(22:31):
me to do some work, you know. You know, we
had to start digging deep and figuring out what was
going on. Probably the first pivotal transformational moment of my
life was a few weeks into that program and had
a chapel there and I used to get it chapel
on Wednesday nights. I'd never really been the chapel before,
but it was something that I was sort of piram
my head into opened how I look at Anyway, I
was out of the front of the chapel and at
(22:52):
the time, I was on a phone call to then
on and off again ex partner. You know, she was
a very broken ice addict as well. She was somewhere
else in the country in another state, and we were
both very toxic, abusive, and you know, we'd scream at
each other and cause each other horrible names. And I
was on the phone out the front of the chapel
one afternoon and I'm screaming abuse and I can't remember what.
(23:13):
I was like, I hate you, and she's like yeah,
and blah blah blah, She's screaming at me, and I'm
screaming back at her, and veins are popping out and
I'm just losing it. And as I'm doing that, this
little lady walks out of the chapel and I'd never
seen it before, and she walked up to me, cool
as a cucumber, and like I'm mid venom going people
are running for their lives, and she goes, excuse me, mate,
you need to come inside, tumbles about the start right.
(23:36):
I just turned around and gave her the mouthful of
her life, like just every name under the sun, use
your imagination. We won't use that language for the listeners.
But I went nuts, called her everything and she's just
gone right o, mate, and she's gone back into the chapel,
and I haven't given another thought and anyway, put the
phone down. I'm sitting at the table similar to this,
and I'm stealing an anger. And as I'm sitting there
all frustrated about the conversation I just had with Max,
(23:57):
one of the clients on the program really carefully walked
over to me and he goes, oh, Maddy, do you
know that was bro? I go who He goes, mate,
that's the boss's wife, and I just, oh, no, stops
your blood. You can feel it.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I'm out of here.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
No, And I'm sitting there and just going no, you're idiot. Now,
for context, it actually took three months on a waiting
list to get into that rear, as close as you
get to committing suicide. And so I made it in
there by the skin of my tooth. And this was
my last chance. There was no other chance for me.
I'd burned every bridge, every opportunity had expired, and this
was the very last chance that I had. And I
(24:33):
bugged it up again like I always do, except this
time it's going to be my last. And I know
what's going to happen. Signs all over the rehab no
threats of violence. She's going to come out with the
security guard on site, and they're going to tell me
to paint my bags, drop me off at the train
station down the road. I'm just sitting there to flate it.
I'm like, well, that's it, that's game over. You're an idiot.
You've done it again, you buged it up, and this
(24:55):
time I just don't have the will to go on.
I'm not going back to the park. I don't have
any money. No one's going to lend me twenty bucks.
I mean I had literally a plastic bag, a couple
of clothes. I'm done. That's it. And so what I decided,
sadly was that when they dropped me at the train station,
I was going to jump in front of trying to
finish myself off, so which was pretty scary, right, but
(25:15):
I was ready to go. That was it. They didn't
know that, right, And so what happens next changes my life.
This lady walks out with the security guard, cool as
a cucumber, and I'm sitting there, deflated, head in my lap,
going this is over. I've got nothing left, not even
going to try. She walks over to me real carefully says, mate,
can you stand up please? And I'm like yeah, So
I stood up, my hands in my pockets, looking at
(25:37):
the floor. She really delicately assessed what was going on
for me, and then she walked in underneath me, and
her face got right in underneath me like that.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
She looked up at me and she goes, mate, would
you mind if I gave you a hug? And I
just went, what what do you mean? I could not
fathom what she was asking me. What do you mean
you want to hug me? And she just looked at
me like I was you know, I should know the answer.
She is, can I give you a hug? And I
said why? He says, well, obviously, because I love you.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Mate. I couldn't believe it, and I just went what
she goes, come here, I'm not going to hurt you.
And I just awkwardly lean in and I honestly, mate,
I can't remember the last time I had argu and
this beautiful little lady just wrapped her arms around me.
She put her hands on my head and she said, mate,
we love you, it's okay, You're safe for you. We're
not going to hurt you. And I just exploded, mate.
(26:30):
I hadn't cried that my dad's funeral. Sadly, I was
just so high and just so numb in this loving
embrace of this beautiful woman. Her name's Rachel McDonald. She
just wouldn't let me go. She just kept saying, we
love you, it's okay. And I just exploded, mate. I mean,
you know, twenty years of tears just puff for a
moment there. I just stopped caring about anyone watching. I
(26:52):
just didn't care, you know, like it was the end
of the road for me, Like I was so close.
Most of the world said, hey, listen, you can tell
him to piss off. You should tell him to piss off.
You should tell him to get gone, put him on
the bus, and tell him to bugger off. That's what
most people would say. And she said, well, no, no, no, no,
My creator has called me to be much much greater
than that. But particularly in those moments, particularly in the
(27:14):
moments where the world will say it's okay for you
to tell this guy to piss off, that's when she knew.
They're the moment's opportunity. That's when I stand up and
I show this guy love and grace and it will
transform his life. She was as wise as they come. She
knew that. And I know her today. Obviously she's a
good maid of mine. She's a wonderful human being. And
you know, I'm just one of the thousands of people
(27:35):
she would have done that too. But she was wise
enough to understand that about the human psyche, about spirituality,
she just got it.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
It's what empathy is, right, Like I mean, in her case,
it was kind of it was on steroids. Zip that's
what's lacking and for me with leadership, it seems to
be the last thing that people are considering the power
of it, the power of being her to just hold
someone's emotions, but building that connection. It's funny you mentioned
hug because I'm such an advocate for hugging like a
thirty second.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Obviously it's but weird if I huged Di everone for
thirty seconds.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
But wherever possible, when I can brief you in advance,
if I hug you for thirty seconds, it's because it
releases oxytocin, and you like it's this connection.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
It's an amazing feeling.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I think that love she had for you in that moment,
and there's misunderstanding that love just has to be like
intimate love. It's just a love from one person to another.
What a saving grace that was for you.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
She saved my life, she did. She saved my life.
And you know, I wish I could tell you.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
I think you saved your life, Matt. I think she
showed you away.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
I think in my case, it was the right ingredients
for the perfect recipe at the right time. I just
feel very fortunate that things happen the way they did.
I wish I could tell you, I woke up the
next day and was this amazing new guy, like just
mover and shake out, Like suddenly, let's just take over
the world because my life has changed. Didn't work that way,
It never does, Right. What did happen is I realized
(28:51):
I was in a place where started to feel safe
for the first time in my life. I'd never felt
that before. I hadn't felt that since I was a
very little boy. Right. And what happens is when you
don't feel safe, you're always moving, you can never sit.
So I'm in this program and I have this moment,
this revelation of being in a place where I can
actually stop for a while, right, And you know, then
(29:13):
we start doing the twelve steps and all that stuff.
And I mean, I remember when I went into rehab.
I couldn't watch a thirty minute TV show. Honestly, I
remember that I'd sit in the cabin and I'd put
on a TV show and I just couldn't watch the
whole thing. YEA, me having to sit with my emotions
for the first time since you know, twelve or something, right,
(29:33):
In other words, never what I did to deal with
that is a move. We've got to get out I've
got to do something right that's really unhealthy. And so
that's what started for me in that place. But it
started because she made me aware that I was in
a place where I could get well and I could
start that work.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
What we haven't talked about it is that you've gone
on to have like where you've reached in your career. Now,
people who have started at nineteen, you know what I mean,
are still going there. So it's just a testament to
the way you turned your life around. But how soon
between leaving rehab and then starting your job. I think
it was at High Pages as your first, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, And I left the REB in twenty thirteen, so
that's eleven years ago, and then I started at High
Pages sort of six months later and made at the time,
I was just about to give up because I tried
to get so many jobs and they kept saying no.
And then at the last minute, I got this job
for this company High Pages, and I remember walking in
the door and looking around and going wow, Like at
the time, you know, I had this really high energy
(30:27):
sales office. I think that would have been about three
hundred odd employees in the business at the time, and
it was just pumping. I remember I remember walking in
and going, Wow, this is job bluck and everyone was
just having such a good time. You know. High Pages
was so progressive. They were all over the culture. For me,
it felt very much like it was googlesque. Yeah. They
were just very ahead of the curve. You know, won
(30:49):
all the Great Places to Work awards and all that
sort of just still weren't winning them today. But I
was really fortunate. There was this great guy called David
v Tech who this day is one of my best mates.
He was the co founder and co CEO. Robbie Sharon
Zips is the other CEO, great guy as well, but
Dave and I particularly struck a chord. And Dave was
just a really empathetic guy, like he sat down and
(31:10):
listened to my story and in fact, when I went
for the role, they had found things about me and
took that to Dave and said, hey, listen, we really
like this guy, but there's this and he's like, oh,
tell me more. Whereas everyone else would have shut it down,
he was like, Okay, well this guy's he's done a
bit of work since this and sounds like he's really
having a crack at putting his life together. Quote unquote,
this is what Dave said. I told my team that
(31:32):
someone needs to give this guy a go. He was
the first person to do that. Okay, you know I
felt I didn't belong there. I'm an ex gang member
X crackhead covered in tattoos. You know, I look like
a twat compared to everyone else in this office. I
clearly stand out. I remember when I started studying business
at the rear, people would say, mate, you should probably
(31:52):
study dragging alcohol counseling and head down that career path
because now I was going to take you seriously in
executive sales.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Well they did take you seriously because you go on
to become the national sales manager for my Pages and
absolutely kill it, start your own business post that, and
obviously now in your chief growth officer at Tactic, which
is just incredible. What I know of you, Maddie, the
A and the V of brave, authentic and vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
That is, you do a team right. You kind of
have to be.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
But there's a price to pay for being authentic, right,
because not everyone's going to like it.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
So this guy, Dave, gave you a chance. As it
mentioned the beginning, Saint Vinie's. Obviously you are the brand
ambassador for the CEO Sleepout. You are the team lid
of the Goats, which raise half a million last year.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
You've gone crazy Maddie style and let's double it.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
So what I love about Vinnie's and what we're doing
in the Goats team. So the Goats team, which stands
for the greatest of all time Sleepout team, just because
we had lack of creative thinking at the time we
built this team. You know, we're sitting around a water
fountain a made of mine, Andrea Vandamir and I am
and we're like, hey, how can we increase our impact
to Vini's. How do we raise more money? Andre's like, hey,
why don't we see how much the highest what's the
(32:57):
highest amount of funds raised by team? The Sleepout's been
going for twenty years. Next year across Australia we raise
about give or take ten million bucks on the coldest
nide of the year right across the country and all
that money is to support Sivincent de Paul Society. What
we found out was that the highest funds raised was
about two hundred and fifty grand and Andre and I
went man we can break that. We can do that easy, right,
So we built the Goats team two years ago. In
(33:17):
twenty two we had I think sixty four Goats members
brought together, you know, amazing leaders within our network. We
raised three hundred and ten thousand dollars, right, which was great,
So we broke the record highest fundraising team, highest amount
of participants. Last year we went back again and said, hey,
let's break around record. Let's raise half a million bucks.
We raised five hundred and seven five hundred. So over
(33:38):
the last twenty four months we've raised eight hundred and
seventeen thousand, five hundred dollars. Now, why that's an important number,
and this is what particularly moves me is that Vini's
Queensland are currently in the process of rolling out five
hundred homes. So we're committed to building five hundred homes
in five years. Tell me a more noble cause at
the moment than actually building homes, right, like for people
that are homeless or experiencing homelessness. So every one hundred
(34:01):
and forty thousand dollars that we raise, every dollar of
that goes to wreckly one hundred and forty thousand dollars
is the equity stack that we need to build one
of those homes. So ever, one hundred and forty grand
that the Ghats Team raises, we build one home. So
we have built so far just shy of six homes.
This year, we are bringing together the most influential, impactful
(34:21):
community of Brisbane based leaders and we're into the Goats
Team and we're going to raise a million dollars. We're
going to raise at least a million dollars that will
provide Venie Queensland with another seven homes, so that will
take it to thirteen homes that we've built. And you know,
that's a really powerful story for me. You only need
to look at my life at about fourteen fifteen to
realize what's about to happen to you, Mate, is going
(34:45):
to completely demolish the next two decades of your life completely.
Those two years on the streets, sleeping in the rain
in parks, not knowing where my food's coming from as
a fifteen year old boy. That ruined me. Honestly, Mate,
It had such a traumatic effect on the next two
decades of my life and it took me two d
decades to figure out who I was, where I fit.
(35:08):
There's still parts of me that I'm figuring out today obviously, right,
but it all came from that moment. And I just
think to myself, like, if I can stop that happening,
and you think about all the lives along the way
that I've impacted in a horrible way for two decades
is decad right, And I think about if we can
stop that from happening, even to one family, even to
one young boy or one young girl, we stop such
(35:29):
a huge ripple effect, then right, We're not going to
stop it for one or two. We're going to stop
it for stacks.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
What staggers me time and time again is people are
crazy if they think it will never happen to them.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
It's anyone, Like, it's not.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Always your story right where it starts from a youth
and a life of crime. It's often people who are
actually a normalized and something happens right an illness, a
marriage breakdown, you know, mental health issue was everybody it
is and it can happen like.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
That, Stevens or bullshit. We will start fundraising next year.
At the beginning of next year. What I'll be focusing
my efforts on between now and Christmas is to be
funneling those big leaders in my network to the team.
My aim is to have one hundred leaders in the
team by Christmas and have circa one hundred and fifty
by the event on the nineteenth of June. I actually
(36:14):
wasn't going to build the ghostem again this year. Really,
it takes a lot out of here, right, And then
I just sort of took a moment, stood back and
looked at what was happening, and the momentum was too strong.
I could just see this great community of really influential
and amazing leaders in Brisbane coming together that haven't come
together before, many of which we now feel somewhat responsible
(36:37):
for bringing together, which is great, right. They're just creating
a bit of a movement and it's just expanding to
the point where I was like, we can't stop this. Now,
there's no way we can stop this. This is actually
so much more important than the money. I mean, that
sounds funny, right, coming from someone that's about to try
and raise a million bucks, but it is actually more
important than money because what I realized about me is
(36:58):
my greatest skill set, This is when I started to
become a successful executive, is bringing great people together to
solve complex problems. I'm certainly not brilliant, and what I
am is very good at bringing the right people together.
And so now that I've done this enough and it's
starting to get its own, you know, like the curve
and it starts to just get its own or gaming. Yeah,
(37:19):
it's starting to happen. People are ringing me, going, hey mate,
can I join the Goat something? You can join the
Ghats team.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
But I think it comes back down fact thing you
said earlier, right, which is it's being part of something bigger,
it's giving to other people.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
It's that feel good that comes with it.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
So when it does open, you know, to anyone listening
to the podcast, I feel like you've got to have
a moment where you go buy that coffee, where you
go buy that bottle of wine, whatever the heck, your
vice is right. The feeling you get when you donate
that bet to this cause amazing great.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
And so I'll be back on it. I'll be back
sleeping next year.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
I only had one question for you today.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Can't bring you on here. I'm not perci.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I'm going to do it officially. Will you join the
Goats team for twenty twenty five?
Speaker 1 (37:57):
I am in I'm going to go man, that's not
a goat. No, that's not a noise.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
We've got to wrap this up because, frankly, you probably
got nine other networking meetings to have after this.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
But you love solving problems. What problem haven't you solved yet?
Speaker 3 (38:11):
To be honest, the problem I want to solve is homelessness.
I honestly think it's solvable.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Just a small goal, but one I love and I
will be on that journey out of year.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Let's go back to Crinullah fifteen year old Maddie. What's
the one thing he needs to hear right now? Oh man,
what do you want to tell him?
Speaker 3 (38:33):
I can show you a better way. I can show
you a better way that he's just gonna bring you
so much joy, take away so much pain. Just come
this way with me. Let me show you. That's what
I'd say, and I'd give him a big hug.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I love that, Mannie. It's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
You bring joy into everyone you meet. I can't wait
to watch what the next ten years of your life
looks like. I'm so happy that you've met someone incredible
that you love and you love each other.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
I think that's incredible. I'm really happy for you. You're
a gift and I'm glad you're still here.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Thanks buddy, Thanks Thanks Thanks amm hm
Approache Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Brave Always, the CEO Series.
This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Happy people create happy businesses, true.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vomit once on our
about our fourth flight, and.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Everybody thought, well, if it's good enough for him, I
can do it now.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and
some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth
behind their brave leadership journeys.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Welcome to a new series of Brave Always.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Today in the studio, I'm joined by the beautiful man,
Matt Cratick. Matt is the Chief Growth Officer at Tactic.
He's also a brand ambassador for Saint Vini's CEO Sleepout.
The CEO of Sleepod is an annual event where people
instead of CEO or business ownership positions, take to sleeping
on a piece of cardboard for the night to experience
(01:01):
what it might be a fraction of what life is
like as a homeless person. And I participated this year,
and we'll talk more about Savini's a bit later in
the chat, but that's how I met Matt, And yeah,
look what a character like I feel like we've become
little best buddies since. To be honest, there's so much
love about you, and a lot of I guess in
relation to what I do with Brave is the fact
that for me, Matt.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
You kind of personify it.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Mate.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
We know that Brave is old, resilient, authentic, vulnerable, empathetic.
But when I look at not just your story and
what your life has been like, but the way you
choose to approach life now, all of it, it's just
like Brave one steries.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Frankly, it's very kind. So I was really excited to
have you on here to have a bit of a chat.
And so I know you're born in Western.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Sydney and that if I'm fairly typical upbringing twelve, your
parents split and you went to live with your dad,
who himself started battling with alcohol at that time.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So then we're at fifteen years of age and the
reality is by this.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Point you've started living on the streets, probably dabbling in
drugs and getting into trouble. I was thinking about this
right because a guy I met the other day, his
son is fourteen, and he was saying to me he's
skipping school.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
He's punched holes in.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
The wall exactly how it started for me.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
And he's a really nice guy and he said to me,
I don't know what to do, And I just instantly
thought of you. And when you said it started, like that?
Was it your parents breaking up? Was it dad?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
And the drink?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Was there one thing you can actually think of that
started for you? Because as a parent of sons, I'm like,
how do you prevent this?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
It's hard? Man, Like, I remember when I was like twelve,
I got diagnosed with ad D, and I remember we
went to see these doctors and they medicated me with ridlin,
which I didn't realize back then is essentially speed. It's
the same chemical as speed. Yes, And what it does
to a kid with ADHD is it calms them down,
whereas a kid without ADHD it hypes them up. Right.
(02:42):
So it's a pretty powerful example that we're all built differently.
For some of us that would work and some of
us it wouldn't. So anyway, I remember being at this
lunch with my mum and dad. They hadn't split quite then,
but it was a celebratory lunch. It's like we're celebrating
because we now know why Matt's such a problem child.
We found the answer. You know, Like I just probably
felt a bit icky as a kid, do you know
what I mean? I was a troubled kid. I was
(03:02):
a pain in the ass. I was a lot for
my parents to handle. But that got particularly worse when
I went to live with Dad. Dad had become an alcoholic,
and he was always a my hero, right Like, he
was the guy that I looked up to. He was
a proud company man, and I thought I had the
best dad in the world. And what happened for Dad
is that his mom died, and his best friend died,
and he lost his twenty year marriage to my mother
by cheating on it with a colleague at work. So
(03:24):
he lost his twenty year career with his company. So
his whole world started falling over. And if I look
back now with a bit more smarts about me today,
what I realized is my dad just didn't understand how
to cope. He didn't have the emotional tools in place
to be able to handle that amount of trauma. And
so what my dad did is he just drank and
just wrote himself off, and he didn't know how to
deal with emotions. You know, his father was hard ass
(03:46):
Ukrainian Dad's dad used to slap him silly. That worked
for him.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
So you know, was it the tough love approach?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Because I'm thinking of it, like I always like to
think of like an opportunity for someone listening to there's
a lot of kids out there being diagnosed with adhd
AD is similarly in a similar challenging age.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
What could your parents have done differently that might have
helped you.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Look, I was a trouble kid. I was angry, you know,
I was punching holes in all these walls. I think
what happened in hindsight is essentially I didn't have the
male role model in my life that I needed the
time that I needed it. And for young men, I
just think that's so important. That's a part of what
I try and do today. People ask me all the time, Hey, Maddie,
(04:25):
is there anything that could have happened that could have
changed your life? Like? Is there anything that could have
stopped you from going down that path? The answer in
my case is no, probably not because of such arrogant
little shit. But if there was one thing, it would
be and I'm not trying toot my own horn, but
it would be if I'd met someone like me who's
had all the shit that I thought was cool, did
all the things that I thought were glamorous, came out
(04:46):
the other side and said, listen, buddy, let me show
you a better way, and let me tell you why. Maybe,
just maybe, if I'd met someone at the crossroad in
that moment that could have sort of put me under
their wing and taught me how to live a productive
I mean, I just had so much ability and the
will could have been my host, but I just funneled
it in the wrong direction.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I'll be sharing the podcast with my friend and get
a son to listen to it, honestly thinking that. Okay,
So the next fifteen years of your life, so between
kind of like fifteen and seat of early thirties, took
a path of drug addiction, drug dealing, and criminal activity.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
What comes to mind you sort of like looking back
at that period, what was it like?
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Look, you know, there was good times, there was bad times.
There was certainly no strategy or planning or anything like that,
which is a big part of my life today. And
I don't know many people that wake up and going,
you know what I'm going to be. I'm going to
be a drug addictor right, that's what I want to be.
I want to be a drug dealer. I mean, sure
there's probably people out there that do, but I certainly didn't.
And I had a big future ahead of me in sport,
(05:42):
and you know, I was a great young athlete and
there was this massive future ahead of me. Well what happens, right,
and then you start getting involved in drugs and you know,
you're on the streets at fifteen, so you're writing yourself
off and you're taking drugs to not deal with any
of the emotional stuff that's going on for you, and
you just naturally progress towards that play. So I remember
being a kid and thinking how dark that world was
(06:04):
and how I couldn't never be a part of that.
You did think that, oh yeah, when I was a
little boy, like I was like, oh man, I could
never be one of them, And yet here I am,
and I would, you know, naturally gravitate towards that world.
And by the time I'm madeen, you know, I'm a
full blown drug addict. I'm dealing drugs, I'm making money
from dealing drugs, and you just get wrapped up in it,
and you know, the more that you do, the more
(06:24):
of that world you get involved in. And you know,
when you're a drug addict, you're just thinking about the
next hit and that's all that really matters. And you know,
suddenly you wake up it's ten years later and in
jail cell somewhere, and you know the cloud's apart and
you've just been living in a cloud for a decade,
and you just go, how did I get here? Like?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
I know you, like you talk to the fact that
you've overdosed. Do you remember at any point going I
don't want to do this anymore? Did that come in.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
All the time, all the time? Yeah, that was a
battle for me for fifteen years, maybe more. I would
always have that part of me that was like, this
is not who I meant to be. Like that never
left me honestly. Ever, Okay, ever, there was this moment
where I'd write myself off for three or four days,
I'd have a sleep. As soon as I'd wake up,
I'd just be like what am I doing. I'd have
(07:08):
these moments where I like, no, I'm not going to
do it anymore, and the next day I'd be back
on it.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Were you afraid of dying?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
No, not at all. I look back at my life
now as sad as it is, it's just not something
that crossed my mind. Yeah, honestly, like it just didn't
cross my mind. It does now, Like you know, I
love my life now.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I have to ask, so, having not been familiar with
gang life and what this might look like, one thing
I do kind of know in my fascination with team dynamics, right,
because I think it's down to that team dynamic right
and for good or bad purposes. When you feel like
you're part of something, can I ask you that heavier
drug use that you've had over your life, does that
still effect you now?
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Definitely? Neurologically it does. Yeah, absolutely, My lungs are pretty shit.
I've got some neurological damage. Outside of that, I can't
have children. They're probably the big ones. Yeah. And you know,
I would say to anyone listening, like men, drugs will
take a time on you, like they really will. I've
got so many great friends who who are really battling
(08:07):
with their mental health at my age, and that's because
of the shit they put their body through when we
were younger. You don't see it now, you don't feel
it now feels great. We'll having a good time, mate,
You're going to pay for that. There's a trade off,
make no mistake about it. A time is going to come.
And you know, when I was a kid and people
saying that, I'm like, yeah, you know it. He's talk
about blah blah blah. The time will come where you're
(08:27):
going to regret doing what you've done. And it's such
a horrible big part about culture today, like drugs are everywhere.
I used to think the world was a really dark place.
In fact, I thought it was just complete darkness. But
when you're in darkness, that's what it looks like. You know.
Now on the other side, and I've got to tell you,
the world is a beautiful, beautiful place filled with amazing,
(08:49):
beautiful people and experiences, and you know, the world is
what you choose it to be. We only get one crack.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Speaking of dark places.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Obviously, you did do a stint in prison for six
I think six months that so I have to ask again.
I don't think I've ever met anyone who's actually in prison.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Was as horrible as.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
It sounds, I wouldn't recommend it.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Was it like what we see on TV.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
And you spend hours in deep reflection on your own
or are you joining forces with people?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Deep reflection at the time for me, But it's shit.
It's designed to be shit, and I don't recommend it
to anyone. And it's soul destroying, I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
But that's not the way you turned your life around.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
It's like an animal. I mean, it's the worst. So
the problem with it is bashing someone over the head
with punishment, in my view, is not the right way
to solve the problem. Rehabilitating someone is people are at
different levels have broken, and that's just human nature. We're
all broken to a degree, right, some of us, once
again much less so than others. And I look back
(09:47):
at my life and realized it was a series of
traumatic events that really threw me off course. I had
to identify that at some point. And then I've spent
the last sort of eleven years trying to fix that,
build new things on top of that, and I've made
massive mistakes along the way where I've buggered that right up,
like royally, But then I've gone, okay, don't do that,
(10:09):
Like that was a big mistake. How do I fix that?
How do I correct that? How do I make that better?
Every day I'm greater and I do better.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Like you say, you make mistakes as you're a human being. Yeah,
how do you not let that knock you down?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I've become someone that's highly accountable. It's one of my
really important values is accountability. So I fundamentally believe that
you'll never grow unless you take your medicine. So you've
got to own your own shit, right, Like you go, Okay,
this is I really got to fix this. I've buggered
this up, and if I want to fix it, I've
got to own it completely. So that's a really really
important part of my life. You know, I'm just seeing
(10:43):
someone that loves learning lessons the hard way, but once
I learn them, I'll keep them.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Completely shifted your perspective, something goes wrong, Hey, this is
my big growth moment.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
The thing about giving up all the bad stuff, right,
all the naughty stuff, is what it forces you to
do rain hailer shine, whether you like it or not,
is you've got to sit in your emotions. It's not
an easy thing for anyone to do, and what it
means is fear, anxiety, anger, turmoil, regret, remorse, guilt, pain, injustice,
(11:13):
all of those things when they come knocking at the door,
you've got to stand there and just hang out with them,
and you've got to figure a way out of that.
That is really hard to do. But if you do
it long enough, what actually happens is there's a moment
in time where it sort of switches and you go, shit,
I actually got through that, and I'm still here. I'm
not drinking, I'm not taking drugs, I'm not doing any
(11:35):
that dumb stuff. No problem. I got through it. And eventually,
once you get that moment, you realize the next piece
of fear, anxiety, you know, remorse, whatever those things are
that are coming. It's almost like, Okay, I can do that.
I can do that, I can stand here, bring it on.
And then you get to a point down the road
where you're like, you know what, a bit of anxiety,
no problem, But of fear, let's go. I'm ready to
(11:56):
rock and roll. And that's a superpower.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I think this is like literally some of the best
advice you could give people, because the inability to sit
with emotions is why ninety more people turn to any
kind of structure where there's drug, sex, your alcohol, whatever
it is. And hands up, I have done the exact
same things at times, but I completely agree with you.
We are so afraid of I think for people like me,
(12:19):
it's because I want to fix it. And sometimes you
cannot fix it. You just got to sit with it.
But I love this idea that you're building, this muscle.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
If you can come to the realization that life is
just a set of problems, that's what it is. It's
one problem after another. Why do we teach our world
that they have to run from that? Why should you
be scared or afraid of a problem? And it's all
about the way you feel, right, It's all about how
things make you feel. But if you can say we'll
hang on, life is actually going to be one set
of problems after another. Like you wake up, there will
(12:48):
be problems that are coming at you. Think of them
like a brick wall, right, like most people want to
run away backwards. They want to run left, right, over it,
under it. That's just their human nature. And I'm like,
oh no, I can take them head on. I'm good.
I can stand there and punch my way straight through it.
Only am I okay with it? I'm expecting it. I'm
ready for it. It's coming, I know it is. And
(13:08):
if you can get to that place that's kind of
game over. You know.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I love this. I love this.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I wanted to ask you about ego because I feel
like in the world that you lived in for many years,
big egos, right, play big part. Of course, in the
world you're in now, and we'll get to that, but
in your business life as well, in my perspective, we
come across, especially in senior roles, a lot of ego
as well. Do you agree or do you think from
now experiencing that on both sides of the spectrum, what
(13:33):
is it?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
The core of it? Is it I'm not good enough?
What drives these egos?
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I think it's different for different people. My whole life
was this ego fueled rollercoaster, right. And I don't know
if you've ever hung out with someone you don't.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Like, oh, try not too bad.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
I mean I have not today.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Not to thank God, that'd be awkward.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Not today. But if you've ever hung out with someone
you really don't like, right, think about that feeling, Oh shit,
I really wish I wasn't here. I'd love to get
out of here, Like Jesus, this person does my head.
Then imagine hanging out with that person for fifteen years, right. Essentially,
that is what was happening in my life, this battle
of opposing forces, one of which was my ego, which
(14:13):
was this out of control monster, and the other was
my soul, which was quite a delicate, you know, kind
caring soul, right, and they were just completely opposing forces,
and essentially my ego took complete control. I mean I
almost remember the day. Yeah, listen, buddy, get out of
the way. I'll take it from here. And probably not
(14:35):
even until many years after I gave up the naughty stuff, right,
I gave up all the gear and you know, really
started working with a psychologists and just sort of tried
to figure out the world, started reading books about growth
and development. I started to realize that that was what
was going on. Your ego is your eternal enemy. I mean,
it's the only eternal enemy you've got. You've got to
keep that in check.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Do you keep yours in check?
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Now?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Where's your ego at?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Now?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Yeah? I really do. My fiance is a really good
part of that. Sometimes she'll give me a metaphorical kick
up the pants. A really important part of development, stop
is getting good at building a network of people around
you that are good human beings that love and care
about you genuinely for no other reason than they just
love the person that you are, and that can take
(15:18):
quite a while.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
The scaffolding around you.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
You've got to have the right scaffolding, but you've also
got to be someone that's approachable. I know so many
people out there in the world that are victims of
their own crazy ego. But part of the problem is
they're unapproachable. They won't let anyone tell them otherwise. If
you want to be an efficient leader, a great leader,
you really need to understand emotional intelligence. And there's an
argument out there in the community that emotional intelligence you've
(15:42):
either got it or you don't. I think that's bullshit
because I had the emotional intelligence of a stone, and
I would like to think now that I've got a lot.
What I do believe is that to build emotional intelligence,
the key word for me is you have to become
someone that's reflective. And I had zero reflectionabilities back in
the day. I was leaving a bullety gate a moment
(16:02):
at a time, whereas today reflect twenty four to seven.
It's a gift, but it could almost be a curse too,
right if you let it out of control. So for me,
it's more about the where, and if you really focus that,
then what you do is you become this leader. Like
when I had my business and I could say to
my hey, guys, I need you to tell me how
I can be better for you now, no leader, well
(16:25):
nowhere near enough leaders do that because they think they're
meant to know all the answers right, which is bullshit.
You know, if I have ever had a leader, and
I have had leaders like that where they're like, hey, listen,
you know, I really want to know how you feel
about the way that I've been leading you, and you know,
are there opportunities for me to do anything that would
make your experience hear better. I had a leader that
(16:46):
did that to me once and I just fell off
my chair. I'm like, what, I who are you? You
can do that? You're allowed to say that you're the boss?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Is the vulnerability they're showing as well?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
It is a retractive It is amazing and immediately that vulnerability,
it's a superpower. When you show someone vulnerability, what you're doing.
The psychology behind that is that they're going, Wow, this
person just gave me something very precious and beautiful. I
feel like I should give them something back. That's what
happens every dog.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
It breeds it.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
It's the hacker to connection, right, And my view, I
just need to sort of bring you back then, to
you make a choice at this moment to step away
from this life, a life you've known.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Now.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I know that this was also around the same time
as you found out that your dad had been killed.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Dad actually died thirteen years ago on Monday. And I
was thirty when I found out Dad died. And at
the time, I was at the height of my crazy lifestyle,
and I was in a penthouse and Adelaide partying, and
I'd received the call from my mum. Hadn't spoken to
her in a long time. We'd sort of had a
very patchy relationship at that point, i'd sort of pushed
(17:49):
all my family out of my life. Basically, she rang
up and said, made I'm really sorry to tell you,
and your dad's just been killed and we think he
may have been murdered. And people always go, oh, was
your dad involved in that, Well, no, he wasn't. He
was an accountant. He lived a very normal life, but
he'd become an alcoholic and that really he spun me
out of control. I just always assumed there'd be more
time to tell Dad that I loved him. I had
(18:10):
in the back of my mind this thought that, you know,
one day, when I quote unquote get my shit together,
you know, I can patch my relationship up with my hero,
telling him your fault, my fault. Who cares? I just
love you, you know, like you're my dad. I love you.
It just really sent me off the rails. And I
mean I was already such a horrible drug addict looking
back now, subconsciously, I just started killing myself with drugs
(18:30):
and ended up getting kicked out of my club because
I was taking too many drugs, which is you know, I.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Mean, how do you get kicked out of the club.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Well, I can't go on the graphic detail, but obviously
it wasn't good. No, it wasn't good. Most people don't
realize this, but ice is such a horrible drug. People
don't understand this. But every outlaw motorcycle club in Australia
has been the use of that drug within their ranks. Wow,
that's a fact, right, I was breaking the rules, right,
(18:56):
So I ended up leaving the club and then I
moved over back to Sydney and I was living in
a park. And you know, I'm now thirty two.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Obviously you don't get to take any of your money
with you.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Everything was just spent gone. I'm probably about thirty two
by now. So I'm in the park and it was
this park in western Sydney. And mate, this is the slumps.
I mean, I've had the crazy life where I had
a great family when I was a kid, ended up
on the streets for you know, two or three years,
got off the streets, made some money, I legally gained,
lived like a rock star for a while, and now
(19:26):
I'm back in a park, right. I mean, I was
just tired. I was exhausted. I could see no way out.
There was this horrible ice addiction. I was doing shitty
little street crimes to provide for my habit. I was
probably about sixty kilos. I'm ninety two now. I was
really sick and I was very mentally unwell. You know,
I was hearing voices and all sorts of stuff, and
I'd be sleeping once every three nights. I just got
(19:47):
to the point where I'm like, mate, I don't have
the strength to go on. I'd pushed everyone out of
my life. There was no one that would answer a
phone call to me. It was the pits. I made
a decision that day I was going to end my life.
You know, I had a pen and paper there I
wrote all letter to my mum and my little brother.
I hadn't seen him for a long time, and I
just said, listen, I love you, guys. I'm so sorry.
I just don't understand how my life got to this place.
(20:08):
But please know it's not your fault. This is me.
I buggered this out, and I love you, and I'm
just so sorry. Because I knew it was going to
really hurt them, I went to kill myself. And just
as I was about to, and I mean as close
as it gets, I had this vision of my little
brother and I planned around the Christmas tree and it
would have been nineteen eighty eight and Adam would have
been three and I would have been seven. And there's
(20:30):
this big, beautiful tree in our house, and we're at
our family home, and my mum and dad were on
the lambs together and they looked so happy and full
of joy, and there's unwrapped presents all over the floor,
and there big beautiful green Christmas tree with a gold
star on top, and red and green tensil all around it,
and here I am literally about to kill myself, and
I can see my little brother running around the Christmas tree,
(20:51):
and there was this one particular moment where he turned
around and looked up at me, and I could seize
three year old little face and he just lit up
like I was his hero. You know, I can still
see it now, that look about him when he just
turned around and he just looked up at me like
I was his big brother, He's big hero. And I'd
forgotten that I hadn't even thought of those things for many,
many years. So at the last moment, I changed my
(21:12):
mind and I decided I wasn't going to end my
life and that I was going to try and fight.
And I walked down I think it was like four
kilometers to an internet cafe because they were a thing
back then, and I punched in rehab. You know, this
place came up with the Salvation Army on the Central
coast and I rang them up and I said, this
mean I need some help, and told this lady in
(21:33):
my story, she's bowling her eyes out on the other end.
And I got in there three months later.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, I know, during part of this journey is where
I think the big chef came for you, Like obviously
not taking your life's a big chef, right, So you've
been making this going to rehab huge chef, But you
were still an angry man when you went into it.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
One hundred percent. Yeap, very very broken, very angry. In fact,
I would say I was a very angry, broken fifteen
year old boy in a thirty two year old man's
body is what I was. And he couldn't say that
to me at the time. I would have slapped you,
but not you, but that's what it was, right. So
I'm in this rehabit, I'm walking around like I'm the
a rehab like what to claim to fame? That is
at thirty two, there's two hundred other clients. That was
a really big one, walk around like I run the show.
(22:10):
And had this great case worker, a really good guy.
His name was Jimmy and he'd been through the shit
that I'd been through and come out the other end.
So that was really important and that was very intentional
on the director's behalf to put me with that guy, right. Yeah,
he was really smart. He just let me run my
own race for a while, gave me a bit of
rogue and eventually some shit would happen, and he pulled
me in and so listen, now it's not for you and
(22:31):
me to do some work, you know. You know, we
had to start digging deep and figuring out what was
going on. Probably the first pivotal transformational moment of my
life was a few weeks into that program and had
a chapel there and I used to get it chapel
on Wednesday nights. I'd never really been the chapel before,
but it was something that I was sort of piram
my head into opened how I look at Anyway, I
was out of the front of the chapel and at
(22:52):
the time, I was on a phone call to then
on and off again ex partner. You know, she was
a very broken ice addict as well. She was somewhere
else in the country in another state, and we were
both very toxic, abusive, and you know, we'd scream at
each other and cause each other horrible names. And I
was on the phone out the front of the chapel
one afternoon and I'm screaming abuse and I can't remember what.
(23:13):
I was like, I hate you, and she's like yeah,
and blah blah blah, She's screaming at me, and I'm
screaming back at her, and veins are popping out and
I'm just losing it. And as I'm doing that, this
little lady walks out of the chapel and I'd never
seen it before, and she walked up to me, cool
as a cucumber, and like I'm mid venom going people
are running for their lives, and she goes, excuse me, mate,
you need to come inside, tumbles about the start right.
(23:36):
I just turned around and gave her the mouthful of
her life, like just every name under the sun, use
your imagination. We won't use that language for the listeners.
But I went nuts, called her everything and she's just
gone right o, mate, and she's gone back into the chapel,
and I haven't given another thought and anyway, put the
phone down. I'm sitting at the table similar to this,
and I'm stealing an anger. And as I'm sitting there
all frustrated about the conversation I just had with Max,
(23:57):
one of the clients on the program really carefully walked
over to me and he goes, oh, Maddy, do you
know that was bro? I go who He goes, mate,
that's the boss's wife, and I just, oh, no, stops
your blood. You can feel it.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I'm out of here.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
No, And I'm sitting there and just going no, you're idiot. Now,
for context, it actually took three months on a waiting
list to get into that rear, as close as you
get to committing suicide. And so I made it in
there by the skin of my tooth. And this was
my last chance. There was no other chance for me.
I'd burned every bridge, every opportunity had expired, and this
was the very last chance that I had. And I
(24:33):
bugged it up again like I always do, except this
time it's going to be my last. And I know
what's going to happen. Signs all over the rehab no
threats of violence. She's going to come out with the
security guard on site, and they're going to tell me
to paint my bags, drop me off at the train
station down the road. I'm just sitting there to flate it.
I'm like, well, that's it, that's game over. You're an idiot.
You've done it again, you buged it up, and this
(24:55):
time I just don't have the will to go on.
I'm not going back to the park. I don't have
any money. No one's going to lend me twenty bucks.
I mean I had literally a plastic bag, a couple
of clothes. I'm done. That's it. And so what I decided,
sadly was that when they dropped me at the train station,
I was going to jump in front of trying to
finish myself off, so which was pretty scary, right, but
(25:15):
I was ready to go. That was it. They didn't
know that, right, And so what happens next changes my life.
This lady walks out with the security guard, cool as
a cucumber, and I'm sitting there, deflated, head in my lap,
going this is over. I've got nothing left, not even
going to try. She walks over to me real carefully says, mate,
can you stand up please? And I'm like yeah, So
I stood up, my hands in my pockets, looking at
(25:37):
the floor. She really delicately assessed what was going on
for me, and then she walked in underneath me, and
her face got right in underneath me like that.
Speaker 4 (25:46):
She looked up at me and she goes, mate, would
you mind if I gave you a hug? And I
just went, what what do you mean? I could not
fathom what she was asking me. What do you mean
you want to hug me? And she just looked at
me like I was you know, I should know the answer.
She is, can I give you a hug? And I
said why? He says, well, obviously, because I love you.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Mate. I couldn't believe it, and I just went what
she goes, come here, I'm not going to hurt you.
And I just awkwardly lean in and I honestly, mate,
I can't remember the last time I had argu and
this beautiful little lady just wrapped her arms around me.
She put her hands on my head and she said, mate,
we love you, it's okay, You're safe for you. We're
not going to hurt you. And I just exploded, mate.
(26:30):
I hadn't cried that my dad's funeral. Sadly, I was
just so high and just so numb in this loving
embrace of this beautiful woman. Her name's Rachel McDonald. She
just wouldn't let me go. She just kept saying, we
love you, it's okay. And I just exploded, mate. I mean,
you know, twenty years of tears just puff for a
moment there. I just stopped caring about anyone watching. I
(26:52):
just didn't care, you know, like it was the end
of the road for me, Like I was so close.
Most of the world said, hey, listen, you can tell
him to piss off. You should tell him to piss off.
You should tell him to get gone, put him on
the bus, and tell him to bugger off. That's what
most people would say. And she said, well, no, no, no, no,
My creator has called me to be much much greater
than that. But particularly in those moments, particularly in the
(27:14):
moments where the world will say it's okay for you
to tell this guy to piss off, that's when she knew.
They're the moment's opportunity. That's when I stand up and
I show this guy love and grace and it will
transform his life. She was as wise as they come. She
knew that. And I know her today. Obviously she's a
good maid of mine. She's a wonderful human being. And
you know, I'm just one of the thousands of people
(27:35):
she would have done that too. But she was wise
enough to understand that about the human psyche, about spirituality,
she just got it.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
It's what empathy is, right, Like I mean, in her case,
it was kind of it was on steroids. Zip that's
what's lacking and for me with leadership, it seems to
be the last thing that people are considering the power
of it, the power of being her to just hold
someone's emotions, but building that connection. It's funny you mentioned
hug because I'm such an advocate for hugging like a
thirty second.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Obviously it's but weird if I huged Di everone for
thirty seconds.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
But wherever possible, when I can brief you in advance,
if I hug you for thirty seconds, it's because it
releases oxytocin, and you like it's this connection.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
It's an amazing feeling.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I think that love she had for you in that moment,
and there's misunderstanding that love just has to be like
intimate love. It's just a love from one person to another.
What a saving grace that was for you.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
She saved my life, she did. She saved my life.
And you know, I wish I could tell you.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
I think you saved your life, Matt. I think she
showed you away.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
I think in my case, it was the right ingredients
for the perfect recipe at the right time. I just
feel very fortunate that things happen the way they did.
I wish I could tell you, I woke up the
next day and was this amazing new guy, like just
mover and shake out, Like suddenly, let's just take over
the world because my life has changed. Didn't work that way,
It never does, Right. What did happen is I realized
(28:51):
I was in a place where started to feel safe
for the first time in my life. I'd never felt
that before. I hadn't felt that since I was a
very little boy. Right. And what happens is when you
don't feel safe, you're always moving, you can never sit.
So I'm in this program and I have this moment,
this revelation of being in a place where I can
actually stop for a while, right, And you know, then
(29:13):
we start doing the twelve steps and all that stuff.
And I mean, I remember when I went into rehab.
I couldn't watch a thirty minute TV show. Honestly, I
remember that I'd sit in the cabin and I'd put
on a TV show and I just couldn't watch the
whole thing. YEA, me having to sit with my emotions
for the first time since you know, twelve or something, right,
(29:33):
In other words, never what I did to deal with
that is a move. We've got to get out I've
got to do something right that's really unhealthy. And so
that's what started for me in that place. But it
started because she made me aware that I was in
a place where I could get well and I could
start that work.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
What we haven't talked about it is that you've gone
on to have like where you've reached in your career. Now,
people who have started at nineteen, you know what I mean,
are still going there. So it's just a testament to
the way you turned your life around. But how soon
between leaving rehab and then starting your job. I think
it was at High Pages as your first, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, And I left the REB in twenty thirteen, so
that's eleven years ago, and then I started at High
Pages sort of six months later and made at the time,
I was just about to give up because I tried
to get so many jobs and they kept saying no.
And then at the last minute, I got this job
for this company High Pages, and I remember walking in
the door and looking around and going wow, Like at
the time, you know, I had this really high energy
(30:27):
sales office. I think that would have been about three
hundred odd employees in the business at the time, and
it was just pumping. I remember I remember walking in
and going, Wow, this is job bluck and everyone was
just having such a good time. You know. High Pages
was so progressive. They were all over the culture. For me,
it felt very much like it was googlesque. Yeah. They
were just very ahead of the curve. You know, won
(30:49):
all the Great Places to Work awards and all that
sort of just still weren't winning them today. But I
was really fortunate. There was this great guy called David
v Tech who this day is one of my best mates.
He was the co founder and co CEO. Robbie Sharon
Zips is the other CEO, great guy as well, but
Dave and I particularly struck a chord. And Dave was
just a really empathetic guy, like he sat down and
(31:10):
listened to my story and in fact, when I went
for the role, they had found things about me and
took that to Dave and said, hey, listen, we really
like this guy, but there's this and he's like, oh,
tell me more. Whereas everyone else would have shut it down,
he was like, Okay, well this guy's he's done a
bit of work since this and sounds like he's really
having a crack at putting his life together. Quote unquote,
this is what Dave said. I told my team that
(31:32):
someone needs to give this guy a go. He was
the first person to do that. Okay, you know I
felt I didn't belong there. I'm an ex gang member
X crackhead covered in tattoos. You know, I look like
a twat compared to everyone else in this office. I
clearly stand out. I remember when I started studying business
at the rear, people would say, mate, you should probably
(31:52):
study dragging alcohol counseling and head down that career path
because now I was going to take you seriously in
executive sales.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Well they did take you seriously because you go on
to become the national sales manager for my Pages and
absolutely kill it, start your own business post that, and
obviously now in your chief growth officer at Tactic, which
is just incredible. What I know of you, Maddie, the
A and the V of brave, authentic and vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
That is, you do a team right. You kind of
have to be.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
But there's a price to pay for being authentic, right,
because not everyone's going to like it.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Right.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
So this guy, Dave, gave you a chance. As it
mentioned the beginning, Saint Vinie's. Obviously you are the brand
ambassador for the CEO Sleepout. You are the team lid
of the Goats, which raise half a million last year.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
You've gone crazy Maddie style and let's double it.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
So what I love about Vinnie's and what we're doing
in the Goats team. So the Goats team, which stands
for the greatest of all time Sleepout team, just because
we had lack of creative thinking at the time we
built this team. You know, we're sitting around a water
fountain a made of mine, Andrea Vandamir and I am
and we're like, hey, how can we increase our impact
to Vini's. How do we raise more money? Andre's like, hey,
why don't we see how much the highest what's the
(32:57):
highest amount of funds raised by team? The Sleepout's been
going for twenty years. Next year across Australia we raise
about give or take ten million bucks on the coldest
nide of the year right across the country and all
that money is to support Sivincent de Paul Society. What
we found out was that the highest funds raised was
about two hundred and fifty grand and Andre and I
went man we can break that. We can do that easy, right,
So we built the Goats team two years ago. In
(33:17):
twenty two we had I think sixty four Goats members
brought together, you know, amazing leaders within our network. We
raised three hundred and ten thousand dollars, right, which was great,
So we broke the record highest fundraising team, highest amount
of participants. Last year we went back again and said, hey,
let's break around record. Let's raise half a million bucks.
We raised five hundred and seven five hundred. So over
(33:38):
the last twenty four months we've raised eight hundred and
seventeen thousand, five hundred dollars. Now, why that's an important number,
and this is what particularly moves me is that Vini's
Queensland are currently in the process of rolling out five
hundred homes. So we're committed to building five hundred homes
in five years. Tell me a more noble cause at
the moment than actually building homes, right, like for people
that are homeless or experiencing homelessness. So every one hundred
(34:01):
and forty thousand dollars that we raise, every dollar of
that goes to wreckly one hundred and forty thousand dollars
is the equity stack that we need to build one
of those homes. So ever, one hundred and forty grand
that the Ghats Team raises, we build one home. So
we have built so far just shy of six homes.
This year, we are bringing together the most influential, impactful
(34:21):
community of Brisbane based leaders and we're into the Goats
Team and we're going to raise a million dollars. We're
going to raise at least a million dollars that will
provide Venie Queensland with another seven homes, so that will
take it to thirteen homes that we've built. And you know,
that's a really powerful story for me. You only need
to look at my life at about fourteen fifteen to
realize what's about to happen to you, Mate, is going
(34:45):
to completely demolish the next two decades of your life completely.
Those two years on the streets, sleeping in the rain
in parks, not knowing where my food's coming from as
a fifteen year old boy. That ruined me. Honestly, Mate,
It had such a traumatic effect on the next two
decades of my life and it took me two d
decades to figure out who I was, where I fit.
(35:08):
There's still parts of me that I'm figuring out today obviously, right,
but it all came from that moment. And I just
think to myself, like, if I can stop that happening,
and you think about all the lives along the way
that I've impacted in a horrible way for two decades
is decad right, And I think about if we can
stop that from happening, even to one family, even to
one young boy or one young girl, we stop such
(35:29):
a huge ripple effect, then right, We're not going to
stop it for one or two. We're going to stop
it for stacks.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
What staggers me time and time again is people are
crazy if they think it will never happen to them.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
It's anyone, Like, it's not.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Always your story right where it starts from a youth
and a life of crime. It's often people who are
actually a normalized and something happens right an illness, a
marriage breakdown, you know, mental health issue was everybody it
is and it can happen like.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
That, Stevens or bullshit. We will start fundraising next year.
At the beginning of next year. What I'll be focusing
my efforts on between now and Christmas is to be
funneling those big leaders in my network to the team.
My aim is to have one hundred leaders in the
team by Christmas and have circa one hundred and fifty
by the event on the nineteenth of June. I actually
(36:14):
wasn't going to build the ghostem again this year. Really,
it takes a lot out of here, right, And then
I just sort of took a moment, stood back and
looked at what was happening, and the momentum was too strong.
I could just see this great community of really influential
and amazing leaders in Brisbane coming together that haven't come
together before, many of which we now feel somewhat responsible
(36:37):
for bringing together, which is great, right. They're just creating
a bit of a movement and it's just expanding to
the point where I was like, we can't stop this. Now,
there's no way we can stop this. This is actually
so much more important than the money. I mean, that
sounds funny, right, coming from someone that's about to try
and raise a million bucks, but it is actually more
important than money because what I realized about me is
(36:58):
my greatest skill set, This is when I started to
become a successful executive, is bringing great people together to
solve complex problems. I'm certainly not brilliant, and what I
am is very good at bringing the right people together.
And so now that I've done this enough and it's
starting to get its own, you know, like the curve
and it starts to just get its own or gaming. Yeah,
(37:19):
it's starting to happen. People are ringing me, going, hey mate,
can I join the Goat something? You can join the
Ghats team.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
But I think it comes back down fact thing you
said earlier, right, which is it's being part of something bigger,
it's giving to other people.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
It's that feel good that comes with it.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
So when it does open, you know, to anyone listening
to the podcast, I feel like you've got to have
a moment where you go buy that coffee, where you
go buy that bottle of wine, whatever the heck, your
vice is right. The feeling you get when you donate
that bet to this cause amazing great.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
And so I'll be back on it. I'll be back
sleeping next year.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
I only had one question for you today.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Can't bring you on here. I'm not perci.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
I'm going to do it officially. Will you join the
Goats team for twenty twenty five?
Speaker 1 (37:57):
I am in I'm going to go man, that's not
a goat. No, that's not a noise.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
We've got to wrap this up because, frankly, you probably
got nine other networking meetings to have after this.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
But you love solving problems. What problem haven't you solved yet?
Speaker 3 (38:11):
To be honest, the problem I want to solve is homelessness.
I honestly think it's solvable.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Just a small goal, but one I love and I
will be on that journey out of year.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Let's go back to Crinullah fifteen year old Maddie. What's
the one thing he needs to hear right now? Oh man,
what do you want to tell him?
Speaker 3 (38:33):
I can show you a better way. I can show
you a better way that he's just gonna bring you
so much joy, take away so much pain. Just come
this way with me. Let me show you. That's what
I'd say, and I'd give him a big hug.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I love that, Mannie. It's been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
You bring joy into everyone you meet. I can't wait
to watch what the next ten years of your life
looks like. I'm so happy that you've met someone incredible
that you love and you love each other.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
I think that's incredible. I'm really happy for you. You're
a gift and I'm glad you're still here.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Thanks buddy, Thanks Thanks Thanks amm hm
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.