June 30, 2025 • 29 mins
Samantha Vidler leads with quiet strength and decades of wisdom. With over 30 years at PwC, she’s built deep relationships across Queensland’s business community and carved out a career rooted in purpose, people, and calm leadership.
In this episode, Sam shares the lessons she’s learned across three decades — from navigating complexity to staying grounded in what really matters.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO series.
This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Happy people create happy businesses.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
True emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vomit once on
OW about our fourth flight and everybody thought, well, if
it's good enough for him, I can do it.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and
some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth
behind their brave leadership journeys. Today I am thrilled to
be joined by Managing partner at PwC Queensland, Samantha Vidler.
PwC being one of the world's largest professional service firms,
with over three hundred and sixty four thousand people across
(00:49):
one hundred fifty countries, advising many of the world's most
influential organizations on everything from audit assurance to strategy, tax
and transformation. So part of what initiated my request to
want to interview Sam was obviously when I heard that
you'd been with PwC for thirty years. First of all,
I didn't believe because I was like, how do you
look like that and you've been there for thirty years.
I don't know if that's possible, but I really was
(01:10):
fascinated to chat with you on what you've understood and
seen about your own leadership and what's out there over
this period. I haven't had a guess with a ten
you're like yours and I'm sure you get that a lot. Yeah,
but it is a really interesting one I'd love to explore. Plus,
we are both part of the Goats Vinese team, so
this is the Saint Viny's CEO sleepout, So I feel
like we both share a passion for using our influence
(01:31):
for good. So I often start my interviews going back
to childhood because for me, in the space of leadership,
a lot stems from when you were a kid, right
and what happened in that time. So you couldn't even
figure out where you were born. Were you born in Brazil?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Born in Victoria, Victoria?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, okay, all right, so tell me a bit about
those early days.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Always an outdoorsy family. We lived on sort of acreage
in Victoria, which is cool, and had a range of
different animals from time to time, very wide and diverse range.
But grew up really loving the outdoor life, the beach
and also grew up water skiing at Lake Yielden and
that was pretty cool. Siblings siblings won older sisters.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah. Actually she's still in Victoria.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah right. And so when you think about, like who
was your biggest influencer role model growing up.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I think it was really just around family.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Had parents that gave us an opportunity to do lots
of different things. Sink or swim, have a crack, I
have a go, have a go as one of my
favorite sayings or values, And so I think it was
really that make the most of your opportunities. You know,
when you're given really good opportunities to have good education
and grow up in a pretty stable household, you learn
to value that.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah yeah, okay, And I did read online that you
were the first of your family to tend university.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Is in their generation and that generation.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah right. So the career that moved into accounting, I'm
assuming was this like your dream growing up as a
little girl.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I wanted to be a vet.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Youvet.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I wasn't very good at biology. Going into accounting was
just a kind of fell into it from school. The
reason I've been with the firm for so long is
because they hired me straight out of school, which was
a little bit unique at the time in terms of,
you know, starting so young and not really knowing what
I was getting myself in for. I had an accounting
teacher that said, you're going okay at accounting? Have you
(03:16):
thought about going for this trainee ship? And I had
no idea who the firm was, what.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
It was all about. But he landed there and here
I am, now.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Okay, So you became if I'm correct, you became a partner.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
At thirty, a little bit older than that early.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, yeah, which is pretty bold by anyone's standards. So obviously,
you know my program is brave. My leadership programs we
talk about bold, resilient, authentic, vulnerable, empathetics. We kind of
like move around those topics. But when I think of
bold being so young, where did imposter syndrome come into
sort of that? Like, I guess you're in a playing
field with you know, some big people, some big personalities.
If I think of EWC, sometimes you think of that
(03:51):
very corporate structure, Yes, and yeah, thirty years ago it
was very much so. So how did you feel at
that time?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I think, like anybody starting out, I'd like to think
we're all pretty humble in terms of you don't know
what you don't know, and you're learning every single day.
And certainly back in those days, I think one of
the first partners I met, I called him mister Wilson
because you always used mister or there weren't a lot
of female partners at that time to look too. So
(04:19):
I think when you talk about imposter syndrome, certainly had
it then, still have it today in certain regards.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I think if you ever get comfortable, you probably need
to move on and look through another challenge.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, that's a nice reframing that. I think a lot
of people avoid the idea like don't want to have
impositi syndrome, But maybe actually it's more about pushing you
to want to be better.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I think you learned to live with it, and I
don't think it ever goes away. Certainly for me, I
don't feel like it's ever gone away. There's still times
you think, what am I doing here? And do I
belong here? And am I worthy of being in amongst
the people that you're meeting?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
How do you reset yourself from that? How you let
it not get on top of you?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Oh that's a gee whiz.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I think you take those small little moments of the
pad on the back, or the encouragement that others might
give you, or the end of the day you perk
yourself up and go, no, no, I'm here. I've got
to face into this one and give it a red
hot Go.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Are you good at self compassion?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Oh? Probably not.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I don't think I've met anyone yet, because it is
a question.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
I think we're terrible at it as human beings, Like
we're really good at giving that to others, we really
find it difficult to have that narrative to us. Absolutely, so,
I guess how do you then, And particularly thinking about
your early career, how did you back yourself when stakes
were high, like you had to go in and you know,
present something or challenge something when you are young and
a female.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that came from the upbringing
of you've just got to have a go and you've
got to put your best foot forward. If a job's
worth doing, you do it to the best of your ability.
And I always think back to that and go, if
I'm going to do something, I'm going to give it
my all and if it works, it works, and if
it doesn't, I'm not a brain surgeon.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
No one's going to die.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I've made a few mistakes over my time, and you
dust yourself off and get back up.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
But that sort of gret to Nash mindsetting. Okay, Look,
when it comes to bold, bold for me is a
thing I must do right. So it's leaning into the uncomfortable,
having those feelings come up. When you're like, oh, it
doesn't feel good, but there's the thing I must do.
Then I got to lean into it. So how do
you keep pushing yourself to find the limits of your
uncomfortable When you beat an organization for thirty years and
you know this business so well.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Oh, I think the organization in itself, the firm, always
gives you different opportunities, and so you never get comfortable.
You're always doing something different. There's always something new to learn.
The industry is always changing, the demands from our clients
are always changing. The world is changing. So at a
point in time, I think I know the organization inside
(06:44):
and out after thirty years, But the organization doesn't stand still,
and so neither do you.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
In your own way, you have to keep learning and
keep keeping up.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
What about personally, do you see set yourself personal goals
to keep not really.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I'm not a massive goal set. People talk about, oh,
what's your five.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Year plan or what's your long term goals? That's just
not who I am.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I live in the moment, good honesty, Like I don't
think I was of for everybody. Yeah sometimes, but.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Maybe twelve months out that's as much as I could. Probably.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
You know, what min uncomfortable is going to networking events,
which is where I met you.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Like it, won't.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I do not like going.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
That is I've had to learn to get come.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I reckon so much more of it. Like many of
us are all standing there deeply controvert at heart. Yeah,
I mean I'm not, but I just don't like those things.
I don't know why. Then it might make you feel
so uncomfortable, but I continue to do it because I
think we're doing something uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Probably are last week, So I'm doing something uncomfortable right now.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
You are doing this as your first podcaus I love that. Yeah, okay,
if we look at your thirty years, so it gets
the big fundamental questions, well, what kept you here? What's
kept you here? And what's changed dramatically over that time
that's kept you challenge and interested?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yep, I've had the privilege of working in different offices.
So started in Melbourne, spent a few years in Canberra,
spent a couple of years in Townsville and now Brisbane.
So I guess in a way, each move was like
starting a new job in a way. So there were
challenges around a new market, new clients, new people, get
to know within the firm, all of those sorts of things.
(08:07):
So I guess where they talk about people have different
jobs across their careers, it sort of feels like I've
had that which keeps you engage. It's actually been brilliant
in terms of knowing a lot of people within the firm,
which is wonderful when you think about how your collaboration,
how we work nationally and internationally, and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So that's kept me engaged. Fundamentally.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I have a love of learning, so my job requires
me to keep learning and keep providing advice to clients.
So I'm learning as much as everybody else is. So
and my clients just love my clients.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
You must built some beautiful relationships over this period. They
must be like family, some of them. I mean, you've
seen people.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Feels like a lot of them feel like family, and
we want to sort of start talking about the royal
we and we've done this and we've done that, and
you go hang on a minute.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, which obviously to me, like relationships are just the
critical part of a great organization and culture. But how
does trust it with you? Like, how does trust play
out with you?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Trust is a two way street, so you get a
good feel for people early on, you do have to
build that trust over time, that really true trusts, that
really deep seated. Your client trusts you, and you trust
your client, You trust your coworkers and all that.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Sort of stuff. So it is something to be earned
over time.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I think do you find that showing vulnerability is that
harder to do as you get more senior in the organization.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I think for some people it is. I'm a pretty
open book. What you see is what you get type
thing with most people. So I think we're all human, right,
So I'm going to make mistakes like the next person.
I'm going to learn something new like the next person.
In a professional sense, I just keep thinking back to
I was a young seventeen year old that knew nothing
(09:51):
and started out and somebody took a punt on me
and invested in me, and that's what you do in return.
And that's what I keep thinking of every new person
that comes through our door and is starting their career
or everybody starts somewhere.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Totally so important. I mean, just when you said seventeen
then I laughed myself because I'm like, I think I
was on a Kentiquy tour about then. I was like,
so do you look back now? Do you feel like
look essentially a later question I have, but I have
to ask it now. A lot of people I talk to,
particularly women and successful high profile roles, say to me,
you can't have it or there's always a price you
pay for the success that they've had.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Do you feel that, Oh, No, I don't. Life's all
about choices, and you make the different choices at different
times in your life. You know, I was finishing school
and starting a job. All of my friends were going
to schoolies on the Gold Coast and I wasn't because
I was starting a job.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Do I regret that? Not?
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Really, that was a choice we made at the time,
and that was what was right at the time. And
I think life's full of different compromises. You just make
the choice for yourself and your family.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
And your career and all of those different aspects of
your life as it presents itself.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Well, obviously you're mum too. I believe to have two
daughter daughters.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, yeah, they.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Would have been you know, babies doing the sort of
growth parts of your case.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Yeah, as well as all that challenging oh at different times. Yeah, absolutely.
I reflect on what life is like today for working
parents versus what life was like when we had our children.
There was no work from home, no availability. There wasn't
that flexibility to come and go. You know, we're a
very flexible workplace and you don't have to be in
(11:28):
by eight thirty, you don't have to leave five or whatever,
so you can come and go and be very flexible.
When I first have children, it was you actually have
to be in the office five days a week, notwithstanding
that you might work reduced hours was available, but going well,
I have to pay for daycare five days a week,
full days. I don't get a discount for that. So
(11:48):
you've got to weigh up all of those different options.
So it was a lot more rigid back when our
girls were born and they were little, and you know
those mornings you drop off at daycare at six thirty
and you'd be the first one was there and the
last one down and let you.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Trouble.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
No, I agree. I think there's definitely a huge improvement
in organizations. Maybe yeah, still some not there. So it's
great to hear that. So PwC is definitely leading the
way there. So when you started, culture wise, what kind
of leadership was modeled and rewarded back then, we're going
back thirty years, Like, looking at that.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
It was definitely a work hard, play hard culture and leadership.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It was still very male dominated. That's just a fact.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I think that just brings with it a different style
of leadership to what you probably see today where we've
got more diverse workforces and sort of more diverse people
in leadership roles. It was definitely your work hard.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, And I know this myself back when I was
in a corporate role. Sometimes to have a voice at
the table, I feel like I had to adopt more
maskul style in order to be heard. And I know
I don't do that now, but I used to do that. Yeah,
it felt like that was the only way forward given
your tenure there. And do you feel like that's something
you had to do as well?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
At times?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I think at times you probably had to learn to
be a louder voice in the room, although I once
had somebody say to me, you don't have to be
the loudest person in the room. You just have to
make sure that what you're contributing is valuable. So that
helps to change that dial of do you have to
be the loudest person or do you just have to
(13:19):
mean what you say, say what you're going to do,
and do exactly that and lead by your actions more so?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Okay, so when your confidence does take your head, how
do you reset? Do you have rich al things that
you do.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Probably go and do a bit of exercise and just
kind of get that tension out of the system. Got
a great supportive family that pump you up. I've got
some great colleagues and peers that help pump you up
and give you that pat on the back that says
it'll be okay, yeah, be okay.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
It's definitely that network, isn't it that you've got around you?
When we talk about authenticity, For me, authenticity my description
is that the opportunity for connection exceeds the fear of rejection.
Do you have a struggle being completely authentic, like are
there times where the fear of being rejected for saying
what you want to say, you think, overrides you really
saying what you want.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I think I've gotten better at that as a you get.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Older and you grow in your career.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
For a period there, you're always, or it was always
a little bit hesitant to.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Really speak out or speak up those sorts of things
for that fear of somebody might not like me or
agree with me. But I think as you learn to
deal with those scenarios, you get better at it. I
really now feel if I'm not speaking my mind or
if I'm not sharing my views, people might not agree
with them, and I'm totally fine with that. But if
(14:41):
I don't contribute something that is meaningful to me, I
don't know whether it might be meaningful to other people.
And so you're sort of doing everybody else. I'm not
saying my ideas are great or the best or whatever,
but you might be doing somebody else a disservice because
there might be five other people in a room that
might think exactly the same as you, and you're the
only one that's going to say it.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So sometimes that responsibility is very well.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, age, yes, totally agree like I think that naturally
helps right and experience. I'd love to feel like we
could help people younger to be able to get their
place quicker. Yeah, can spend your twenties and your thirties
not saying what you want to say at the table
bit embarrassed, not wanting to be you know, and being
judging me. I remember sitting in my first executive like, well,
my senior leadership team meeting, and this person's presenting and
(15:26):
no one understood a word of what person's presenting, right,
but no one wanted to say thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
And as soon as.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Someone's the confience to say that doesn'tually make sense to
make can you explain? And if it's like relief, But
it's just that constant wanting to prove yourself.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
And you know, I think we often hear from people
that say, just be more confident. Yeah, And that's a
really easy thing for somebody else to say, but it's
a really hard thing for the person who's not feeling
confident to be confident. And so, well, how do I
be more confident? And that's where I think others have
got a lot to offer those people to say, I
believe in you, You've got this. I know you understand
(15:59):
whatever it is. I know you've got some.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Great ideas about this.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Please share them, you know, and just encourag each people
rather than saying be more confident. That's easier said than done.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I completely agree. I think that the authenticity will breed
when you're being encouraged by others to be it. I
don't think we encourage people enough to be you know,
so I think that's great, great tip. So if I
asked ten random people at PwC about your leadership style,
what would you hope they would say to me about you?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I would hope that they would say, lead with care,
you get what you seek, pretty open book, happy to
and comfortable to challenge when something really doesn't sit right
with my values or the firms values, to call that out.
And somebody who is there for others.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, okay, it's quite empathetic hearing kind of if they
had to sort of say, whats her growth theory is
still because we all have it? Yeah, yeah, what's those
areas of leadership? They like, Ah, that's probably my thing.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Maybe be more strategic and have those longer term go.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I doubt that. Do you think people find you easy
to get to know.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
I think some people do, some people don't. It's interesting, yeah, yeah,
but I think you get that with everybody. You connect
with some and you don't connect with others necessarily. I'm
pretty happy, go lucky kind of person, always see the
positive side, ever, the optimist. I think most people would
say I'm easy to get to know.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, okay. I also think ego is a healthy part
of being a leader, right. I don't know a good
leader at the top who doesn't have a dose of
ego in there. But also, keeping in checks really important.
So how do you keep your ego in check in
the sense of, you know, you've got promoted very young,
you're in a very senior role, Like, how do you
keep that in check and stay grounded as your career
keeps rising.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Your children are pretty good for that.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
I still feel like it's a massive privilege of what
I get to do every day. So to me, I
don't think I've got a huge ego. I certainly feel
proud about things that we've achieved as a firm and
things that our clients achieve, and personally you achieve, But
I'm not somebody who really try and shout that from
(18:03):
the rooftops or feel like I'm the most important.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Actually, I remember standing at an event with you. We
didn't really know to that well then and another couple
of people mingle over and have a chat and I
knew what your role was and who you were, but
the guy who asked and you just said that you
were the company you worked for. You didn't even mention
your title. Yeah, so I think that's actually a beautiful example,
like you could have and had them probably trying to
(18:26):
win some business or something, and maybe you're avoiding that.
And I astually like your answer because I think the
word I like was you said the privilege. You still
obviously feel every day, proud of it. We should do
what you do. Yeah, maybe that's the point, right when
people stop feeling privileged and that role or proud, that's
where the ego kind of takes over.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, that's just true. I am.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I mean, you're a very measured person. I can see
that you say the truth and just speak sort of
what's in your mind. But look, we all make mistakes.
Was there any moment in your career you've had to
course correct when you realize you weren't showing up in
alignment with your values.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
There's Certainly, moments where you get so caught up in
the juggernaut of things are really busy, and there's lots
of competing demands, and certainly you tend to get distracted
by the person who yells the loudest, and certainly that
makes you go in a certain direction where you otherwise
(19:19):
would like to be more things to more people.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
But I think that's probably I think it's pretty ill man.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, when you're under time pressure, you mean sort.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Of yeah, yeah, I mean there's lots of different things
that get thrown at you, and you're either kind of
a work pressure or home pressure or whatever it might be.
And I think it's really hard to stay measured, which
is what I like to do a lot of the time.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
That's when you make mistakes.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Is it easy if you'd met when you've made a.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Mistake easier now Earlier in your career, you go, oh,
it's like it's going to be career ending, or it's
going to be like it's just the most dramatic thing
in your life. And then you get through it and
you go, okay, yep, yep. As I've gone through my career,
really tried to hone in on if I've made a mistake,
I'll app asolutely own it, because if the shoes on
(20:07):
the other foot, you don't like other people deflecting, or
if somebody else has made a mistake, I'd rather they
own it and we'll go okay, we'll work on it
and we'll move on. Draw a line in the sand.
And don't want to really hold people to their mistakes.
You want to see the opportunity and the positivity that
can come from learning from the experience or the issue
that you've made a mistake, Well, whatever it is, just
(20:29):
learn from it.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Is that easy to do In an organization that's so
successful and you know, not for its high performance and
delivering to absolutely how does that play out?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
It's been a real journey over the years. I think
rewind back years ago, it was nobody wanted to make
a mistake. It was fear of God in your type.
These days, as a firm, we've.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Come a really long way.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
And certainly as a society, I think we've come a
really long way in being vulnerable and saying yep, we've
made a mistake. But the best way you can deal
with that is by rectifying it, admitting it, moving on going.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
How do we make this right.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I've seen it all right, And a lot of organizations
were like that, the more of a command control kind
of style, and we're aught to the right thing.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
That's free.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Typical, you're a large organization with that really strong reputation.
What have you seen? What are the things that you've
specifically seen that the company did to make that step change,
because you could have not it could have you know,
said no, we're not going to that past. Yeah, particular leaders,
particular behaviors, voices.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Certainly, our culture has changed over the last few years
and really focused on great governance, great processes, procedures, those
sorts of things that you wrap around everyone to make
sure that everybody understands what our accountability and responsibilities are
to both each other, the firm, our clients, those sorts
(21:45):
of things. So really robust policies, procedures, governance, that sort
of thing, And certainly people in various leadership roles very
very supportive of the culture of saying, Okay, if you've
done everything, possible mistakes are happening, how do we deal
with that and what's the gravity of it, how do
(22:06):
we respond And just having that sort of safer environment
for people to be able to not feel that they
can't speak up early enough.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I read a stat the other day eighty seven percent
of people expect their leaders to provide them with personal
development support and you'll be able to deal with their
problems that they're bringing from home as well. Right, Which
is really interesting because a long time ago, when I
sort of talked about this topic, people like, not my problem,
it's not the company's problem, right, But now it kind
of has become it because we've got this flexible hybrid.
You know, what do you see as the biggest challenges
(22:37):
and keeping employees retained in the organization happy outside of
paying mega salary and you know all that, Yeah, from
all that other culture side, what are you sort of
seeing as the biggest challenges.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
The biggest challenges are certainly making sure that we understand
our team's home and work life, because they are such
a blend these days. Helping people navigate through different stages
in their lives from starting their careers.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Maybe it's having.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Relationships, marriage, children, whatever that might look like for each
of our people, and just really bridging that gap between
You spend a lot of time working with each other,
and sometimes you spend more time working with people than
they do spend with their families or with their loved
ones outside of work or their hobbies or whatever it
(23:25):
might be. So it's really the big challenge is helping
people find the right balance of what works for them.
Some people are workaholics, some people really like their flexibility.
It's just so diverse, really diverse.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Oh that's tricky, Yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I think probably having those conversations earlier, you know what
matters to people absolutely, Like I remember old interview processes.
No one ever asked you, like, what was you know?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Nobody asked you what you did outside of them.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
No, it wasn't really well of it really was that
versus tailoring your working life a bit more to it
works to people. I think is an interesting one. Wanted
to ask you about conflict because you don't strike me
as a person who is in a high conflict kind
of character, but I could be wrong. How do you
handle things when people don't see things the same way
as you or don't care as much as you do.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
When people don't care as much as I do, I
do struggle with that. You just have to peg yourself
back a little bit and just understand where other people
are coming from and that goes the same when people
don't agree with what I might want to do or
I believe the right answer is, you just have to
unpack it and see all sides. Yeah, and then make
a call. If you're in that position where you're the
(24:31):
person making the call, I usually really like to make
sure I'm taking on board and understanding other people's perspectives
then making an informed call.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
What about with difficult conversations, because I find that's the
other one that does no matter how long you're in
your career, for you know, having that conversation about performance
or letting somebody go yeah, still as uncomfortable as it was.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Oh absolutely, yeah, absolutely, I think because for me it's
all about the person and if there's a performance issue, sure,
some things are black and white, and other things they're emotive.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
That makes it really.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Difficult when you're talk talking about people and humans and
decisions that might or outcomes that might really affect a
person and their families or their way of life.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
That sort of stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
So what I try to do is make sure we're
being fair and reasonable coming into all of those conversations
from place of care.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
So when we talk about empathy, how do you create
connection with the people that work for you, because obviously,
the more thing you get, I'm imagining you're distanced more
and more, like, how do you say, connected to their
real life and what's going on and so forth.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I have this scene where a lot to think that
I can converse somewhat with some of our young staff
who has the same age.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
As my children. Oh, okay, technic.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
So that's the lingo I get at home can be
translated to the lingo at work. It's about just getting
to know the people.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Do you have time for that though? In your job?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Oh, you make time. You have to.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
We're a people business, and whether that's your clients or
your team internally, you've definitely got to make time. It
is hard because there's only a certain amount of hours
in the day and everyone's got different roles and responsibilities
and things they've got to execute on. But trying to
make the time to connect with each person I think
is really important. And then even if you don't one
on one connect, just having that awareness of understanding what's
(26:19):
going on through other people.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, and when you notice someone struggling, how do you
show up for them?
Speaker 3 (26:26):
If it's something that I can help them with personally,
then I will always endeavor to do so. If it's
something somebody else is helping them with, then it's just
being there for support and asking people what's going on
for you?
Speaker 1 (26:39):
What can we do? I think we're really good at
responding to making sure people have the tools and resources
around them and the support around them that if there's
something that they want to improve on or want to
get better at, that we can help support with that.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
What about when you're struggling.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
I've got a great family that helped support and kind
of pick you up when you're having a bad moment.
But I've also got great people peer wise at work.
I think in our environment, nobody wants to see anybody
not having a positive experience, so we're very attuned to that.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I feel like the last few years of consulting, I've
noticed a lot more companies having those really honest conversations
at the table. I think it was one organization I
went to where they would go around and get everyone
to sort of number where they're at in terms of stress.
Then what do I need from people in this room
right now?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeap?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
And sometimes that's like I just need everyone to be
a patient with me because I'm going through something bigger
at home, and is that kind of Oh?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Absolutely, I think we would spend as much time internally
supporting our teams and our people, talking about what support
our teams and people need, like as we do servicing clients.
It's a really big part of what we do all
throughout the year, regular check ins, those sorts of things.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
It's huge.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Let's go back to seventeen year old Samantha just now,
I sat on schoolies, but you've decided on this, that's sad.
What's the key lessons you've learned over thirty years spanning
this career. Yeah, what would you tell her now?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
I'd probably say not to be as hesitant and not
to sort of second guess yourself throughout taking those extra
opportunities or jumping.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Right into things.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
I think if I look back, there were times you go, oh,
I don't know whether I should do that, or am
I right for that role or those types of things,
And so for me it would be be more rest So, yeah,
be a bit more of a risk taker.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Okay, So then the next twenty years, theam what's a
goal out there? Now? You don't do goals. I don't
do goals, but is there a risk that you'd like
to take that you sort of go.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
I think it'll be whatever the next opportunity is or
wherever that presents itself, just going for it right, not
overthinking it, really having a crack.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I always like to finish on not always this question,
but I've used it a few times. So I heard
this from this harvest psychologist, and I thought it was
such a great question to ask leaders. So, Sam, why
should anyone be led by you?
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Gosh?
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Okay, I don't see myself as the leader. What I
see is I create an environment where people can be
at their best and we can do great things. So
it's not necessarily for me why people should be led
by me, but why people can work with me to
(29:29):
make sure that we're bringing the best out in each other,
and we're bringing the best to our clients, and we're
bringing the best.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
To our communities. Oh, I love that. I like now
I think about it.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, very humpable. Well, thank you. It's been amazing having
you on here. I really enjoyed our conversation, So thank you,
Thank you.
Appoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of Brave Always the CEO series.
This series, we launch into the new world of brave leadership.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Happy people create happy businesses.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
True emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vomit once on
OW about our fourth flight and everybody thought, well, if
it's good enough for him, I can do it.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
We will be joined by culture and leadership experts and
some superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth
behind their brave leadership journeys. Today I am thrilled to
be joined by Managing partner at PwC Queensland, Samantha Vidler.
PwC being one of the world's largest professional service firms,
with over three hundred and sixty four thousand people across
(00:49):
one hundred fifty countries, advising many of the world's most
influential organizations on everything from audit assurance to strategy, tax
and transformation. So part of what initiated my request to
want to interview Sam was obviously when I heard that
you'd been with PwC for thirty years. First of all,
I didn't believe because I was like, how do you
look like that and you've been there for thirty years.
I don't know if that's possible, but I really was
(01:10):
fascinated to chat with you on what you've understood and
seen about your own leadership and what's out there over
this period. I haven't had a guess with a ten
you're like yours and I'm sure you get that a lot. Yeah,
but it is a really interesting one I'd love to explore. Plus,
we are both part of the Goats Vinese team, so
this is the Saint Viny's CEO sleepout, So I feel
like we both share a passion for using our influence
(01:31):
for good. So I often start my interviews going back
to childhood because for me, in the space of leadership,
a lot stems from when you were a kid, right
and what happened in that time. So you couldn't even
figure out where you were born. Were you born in Brazil?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Born in Victoria, Victoria?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, okay, all right, so tell me a bit about
those early days.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Always an outdoorsy family. We lived on sort of acreage
in Victoria, which is cool, and had a range of
different animals from time to time, very wide and diverse range.
But grew up really loving the outdoor life, the beach
and also grew up water skiing at Lake Yielden and
that was pretty cool. Siblings siblings won older sisters.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah. Actually she's still in Victoria.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah right. And so when you think about, like who
was your biggest influencer role model growing up.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I think it was really just around family.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Had parents that gave us an opportunity to do lots
of different things. Sink or swim, have a crack, I
have a go, have a go as one of my
favorite sayings or values, And so I think it was
really that make the most of your opportunities. You know,
when you're given really good opportunities to have good education
and grow up in a pretty stable household, you learn
to value that.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah yeah, okay, And I did read online that you
were the first of your family to tend university.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Is in their generation and that generation.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah right. So the career that moved into accounting, I'm
assuming was this like your dream growing up as a
little girl.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I wanted to be a vet.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Youvet.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I wasn't very good at biology. Going into accounting was
just a kind of fell into it from school. The
reason I've been with the firm for so long is
because they hired me straight out of school, which was
a little bit unique at the time in terms of,
you know, starting so young and not really knowing what
I was getting myself in for. I had an accounting
teacher that said, you're going okay at accounting? Have you
(03:16):
thought about going for this trainee ship? And I had
no idea who the firm was, what.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
It was all about. But he landed there and here
I am, now.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Okay, So you became if I'm correct, you became a partner.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
At thirty, a little bit older than that early.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, yeah, which is pretty bold by anyone's standards. So obviously,
you know my program is brave. My leadership programs we
talk about bold, resilient, authentic, vulnerable, empathetics. We kind of
like move around those topics. But when I think of
bold being so young, where did imposter syndrome come into
sort of that? Like, I guess you're in a playing
field with you know, some big people, some big personalities.
If I think of EWC, sometimes you think of that
(03:51):
very corporate structure, Yes, and yeah, thirty years ago it
was very much so. So how did you feel at
that time?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I think, like anybody starting out, I'd like to think
we're all pretty humble in terms of you don't know
what you don't know, and you're learning every single day.
And certainly back in those days, I think one of
the first partners I met, I called him mister Wilson
because you always used mister or there weren't a lot
of female partners at that time to look too. So
(04:19):
I think when you talk about imposter syndrome, certainly had
it then, still have it today in certain regards.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I think if you ever get comfortable, you probably need
to move on and look through another challenge.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, that's a nice reframing that. I think a lot
of people avoid the idea like don't want to have
impositi syndrome, But maybe actually it's more about pushing you
to want to be better.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I think you learned to live with it, and I
don't think it ever goes away. Certainly for me, I
don't feel like it's ever gone away. There's still times
you think, what am I doing here? And do I
belong here? And am I worthy of being in amongst
the people that you're meeting?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
How do you reset yourself from that? How you let
it not get on top of you?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Oh that's a gee whiz.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
I think you take those small little moments of the
pad on the back, or the encouragement that others might
give you, or the end of the day you perk
yourself up and go, no, no, I'm here. I've got
to face into this one and give it a red
hot Go.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Are you good at self compassion?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Oh? Probably not.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
I don't think I've met anyone yet, because it is
a question.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
I think we're terrible at it as human beings, Like
we're really good at giving that to others, we really
find it difficult to have that narrative to us. Absolutely, so,
I guess how do you then, And particularly thinking about
your early career, how did you back yourself when stakes
were high, like you had to go in and you know,
present something or challenge something when you are young and
a female.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that came from the upbringing
of you've just got to have a go and you've
got to put your best foot forward. If a job's
worth doing, you do it to the best of your ability.
And I always think back to that and go, if
I'm going to do something, I'm going to give it
my all and if it works, it works, and if
it doesn't, I'm not a brain surgeon.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
No one's going to die.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I've made a few mistakes over my time, and you
dust yourself off and get back up.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
But that sort of gret to Nash mindsetting. Okay, Look,
when it comes to bold, bold for me is a
thing I must do right. So it's leaning into the uncomfortable,
having those feelings come up. When you're like, oh, it
doesn't feel good, but there's the thing I must do.
Then I got to lean into it. So how do
you keep pushing yourself to find the limits of your
uncomfortable When you beat an organization for thirty years and
you know this business so well.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Oh, I think the organization in itself, the firm, always
gives you different opportunities, and so you never get comfortable.
You're always doing something different. There's always something new to learn.
The industry is always changing, the demands from our clients
are always changing. The world is changing. So at a
point in time, I think I know the organization inside
(06:44):
and out after thirty years, But the organization doesn't stand still,
and so neither do you.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
In your own way, you have to keep learning and
keep keeping up.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
What about personally, do you see set yourself personal goals
to keep not really.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I'm not a massive goal set. People talk about, oh,
what's your five.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Year plan or what's your long term goals? That's just
not who I am.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I live in the moment, good honesty, Like I don't
think I was of for everybody. Yeah sometimes, but.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Maybe twelve months out that's as much as I could. Probably.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
You know, what min uncomfortable is going to networking events,
which is where I met you.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Like it, won't.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I do not like going.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
That is I've had to learn to get come.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
I reckon so much more of it. Like many of
us are all standing there deeply controvert at heart. Yeah,
I mean I'm not, but I just don't like those things.
I don't know why. Then it might make you feel
so uncomfortable, but I continue to do it because I
think we're doing something uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Probably are last week, So I'm doing something uncomfortable right now.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
You are doing this as your first podcaus I love that. Yeah, okay,
if we look at your thirty years, so it gets
the big fundamental questions, well, what kept you here? What's
kept you here? And what's changed dramatically over that time
that's kept you challenge and interested?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yep, I've had the privilege of working in different offices.
So started in Melbourne, spent a few years in Canberra,
spent a couple of years in Townsville and now Brisbane.
So I guess in a way, each move was like
starting a new job in a way. So there were
challenges around a new market, new clients, new people, get
to know within the firm, all of those sorts of things.
(08:07):
So I guess where they talk about people have different
jobs across their careers, it sort of feels like I've
had that which keeps you engage. It's actually been brilliant
in terms of knowing a lot of people within the firm,
which is wonderful when you think about how your collaboration,
how we work nationally and internationally, and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
So that's kept me engaged. Fundamentally.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I have a love of learning, so my job requires
me to keep learning and keep providing advice to clients.
So I'm learning as much as everybody else is. So
and my clients just love my clients.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
You must built some beautiful relationships over this period. They
must be like family, some of them. I mean, you've
seen people.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Feels like a lot of them feel like family, and
we want to sort of start talking about the royal
we and we've done this and we've done that, and
you go hang on a minute.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, which obviously to me, like relationships are just the
critical part of a great organization and culture. But how
does trust it with you? Like, how does trust play
out with you?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Trust is a two way street, so you get a
good feel for people early on, you do have to
build that trust over time, that really true trusts, that
really deep seated. Your client trusts you, and you trust
your client, You trust your coworkers and all that.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Sort of stuff. So it is something to be earned
over time.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I think do you find that showing vulnerability is that
harder to do as you get more senior in the organization.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I think for some people it is. I'm a pretty
open book. What you see is what you get type
thing with most people. So I think we're all human, right,
So I'm going to make mistakes like the next person.
I'm going to learn something new like the next person.
In a professional sense, I just keep thinking back to
I was a young seventeen year old that knew nothing
(09:51):
and started out and somebody took a punt on me
and invested in me, and that's what you do in return.
And that's what I keep thinking of every new person
that comes through our door and is starting their career
or everybody starts somewhere.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Totally so important. I mean, just when you said seventeen
then I laughed myself because I'm like, I think I
was on a Kentiquy tour about then. I was like,
so do you look back now? Do you feel like
look essentially a later question I have, but I have
to ask it now. A lot of people I talk to,
particularly women and successful high profile roles, say to me,
you can't have it or there's always a price you
pay for the success that they've had.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
Do you feel that, Oh, No, I don't. Life's all
about choices, and you make the different choices at different
times in your life. You know, I was finishing school
and starting a job. All of my friends were going
to schoolies on the Gold Coast and I wasn't because
I was starting a job.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Do I regret that? Not?
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Really, that was a choice we made at the time,
and that was what was right at the time. And
I think life's full of different compromises. You just make
the choice for yourself and your family.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
And your career and all of those different aspects of
your life as it presents itself.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Well, obviously you're mum too. I believe to have two
daughter daughters.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, yeah, they.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Would have been you know, babies doing the sort of
growth parts of your case.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Yeah, as well as all that challenging oh at different times. Yeah, absolutely.
I reflect on what life is like today for working
parents versus what life was like when we had our children.
There was no work from home, no availability. There wasn't
that flexibility to come and go. You know, we're a
very flexible workplace and you don't have to be in
(11:28):
by eight thirty, you don't have to leave five or whatever,
so you can come and go and be very flexible.
When I first have children, it was you actually have
to be in the office five days a week, notwithstanding
that you might work reduced hours was available, but going well,
I have to pay for daycare five days a week,
full days. I don't get a discount for that. So
(11:48):
you've got to weigh up all of those different options.
So it was a lot more rigid back when our
girls were born and they were little, and you know
those mornings you drop off at daycare at six thirty
and you'd be the first one was there and the
last one down and let you.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Trouble.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
No, I agree. I think there's definitely a huge improvement
in organizations. Maybe yeah, still some not there. So it's
great to hear that. So PwC is definitely leading the
way there. So when you started, culture wise, what kind
of leadership was modeled and rewarded back then, we're going
back thirty years, Like, looking at that.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
It was definitely a work hard, play hard culture and leadership.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It was still very male dominated. That's just a fact.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I think that just brings with it a different style
of leadership to what you probably see today where we've
got more diverse workforces and sort of more diverse people
in leadership roles. It was definitely your work hard.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, And I know this myself back when I was
in a corporate role. Sometimes to have a voice at
the table, I feel like I had to adopt more
maskul style in order to be heard. And I know
I don't do that now, but I used to do that. Yeah,
it felt like that was the only way forward given
your tenure there. And do you feel like that's something
you had to do as well?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
At times?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I think at times you probably had to learn to
be a louder voice in the room, although I once
had somebody say to me, you don't have to be
the loudest person in the room. You just have to
make sure that what you're contributing is valuable. So that
helps to change that dial of do you have to
be the loudest person or do you just have to
(13:19):
mean what you say, say what you're going to do,
and do exactly that and lead by your actions more so?
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Okay, so when your confidence does take your head, how
do you reset? Do you have rich al things that
you do.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Probably go and do a bit of exercise and just
kind of get that tension out of the system. Got
a great supportive family that pump you up. I've got
some great colleagues and peers that help pump you up
and give you that pat on the back that says
it'll be okay, yeah, be okay.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
It's definitely that network, isn't it that you've got around you?
When we talk about authenticity, For me, authenticity my description
is that the opportunity for connection exceeds the fear of rejection.
Do you have a struggle being completely authentic, like are
there times where the fear of being rejected for saying
what you want to say, you think, overrides you really
saying what you want.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I think I've gotten better at that as a you get.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Older and you grow in your career.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
For a period there, you're always, or it was always
a little bit hesitant to.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Really speak out or speak up those sorts of things
for that fear of somebody might not like me or
agree with me. But I think as you learn to
deal with those scenarios, you get better at it. I
really now feel if I'm not speaking my mind or
if I'm not sharing my views, people might not agree
with them, and I'm totally fine with that. But if
(14:41):
I don't contribute something that is meaningful to me, I
don't know whether it might be meaningful to other people.
And so you're sort of doing everybody else. I'm not
saying my ideas are great or the best or whatever,
but you might be doing somebody else a disservice because
there might be five other people in a room that
might think exactly the same as you, and you're the
only one that's going to say it.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So sometimes that responsibility is very well.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, age, yes, totally agree like I think that naturally
helps right and experience. I'd love to feel like we
could help people younger to be able to get their
place quicker. Yeah, can spend your twenties and your thirties
not saying what you want to say at the table
bit embarrassed, not wanting to be you know, and being
judging me. I remember sitting in my first executive like, well,
my senior leadership team meeting, and this person's presenting and
(15:26):
no one understood a word of what person's presenting, right,
but no one wanted to say thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
And as soon as.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Someone's the confience to say that doesn'tually make sense to
make can you explain? And if it's like relief, But
it's just that constant wanting to prove yourself.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
And you know, I think we often hear from people
that say, just be more confident. Yeah, And that's a
really easy thing for somebody else to say, but it's
a really hard thing for the person who's not feeling
confident to be confident. And so, well, how do I
be more confident? And that's where I think others have
got a lot to offer those people to say, I
believe in you, You've got this. I know you understand
(15:59):
whatever it is. I know you've got some.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Great ideas about this.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Please share them, you know, and just encourag each people
rather than saying be more confident. That's easier said than done.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I completely agree. I think that the authenticity will breed
when you're being encouraged by others to be it. I
don't think we encourage people enough to be you know,
so I think that's great, great tip. So if I
asked ten random people at PwC about your leadership style,
what would you hope they would say to me about you?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
I would hope that they would say, lead with care,
you get what you seek, pretty open book, happy to
and comfortable to challenge when something really doesn't sit right
with my values or the firms values, to call that out.
And somebody who is there for others.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Yeah, okay, it's quite empathetic hearing kind of if they
had to sort of say, whats her growth theory is
still because we all have it? Yeah, yeah, what's those
areas of leadership? They like, Ah, that's probably my thing.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Maybe be more strategic and have those longer term go.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I doubt that. Do you think people find you easy
to get to know.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
I think some people do, some people don't. It's interesting, yeah, yeah,
but I think you get that with everybody. You connect
with some and you don't connect with others necessarily. I'm
pretty happy, go lucky kind of person, always see the
positive side, ever, the optimist. I think most people would
say I'm easy to get to know.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, okay. I also think ego is a healthy part
of being a leader, right. I don't know a good
leader at the top who doesn't have a dose of
ego in there. But also, keeping in checks really important.
So how do you keep your ego in check in
the sense of, you know, you've got promoted very young,
you're in a very senior role, Like, how do you
keep that in check and stay grounded as your career
keeps rising.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Your children are pretty good for that.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
I still feel like it's a massive privilege of what
I get to do every day. So to me, I
don't think I've got a huge ego. I certainly feel
proud about things that we've achieved as a firm and
things that our clients achieve, and personally you achieve, But
I'm not somebody who really try and shout that from
(18:03):
the rooftops or feel like I'm the most important.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Actually, I remember standing at an event with you. We
didn't really know to that well then and another couple
of people mingle over and have a chat and I
knew what your role was and who you were, but
the guy who asked and you just said that you
were the company you worked for. You didn't even mention
your title. Yeah, so I think that's actually a beautiful example,
like you could have and had them probably trying to
(18:26):
win some business or something, and maybe you're avoiding that.
And I astually like your answer because I think the
word I like was you said the privilege. You still
obviously feel every day, proud of it. We should do
what you do. Yeah, maybe that's the point, right when
people stop feeling privileged and that role or proud, that's
where the ego kind of takes over.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, that's just true. I am.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I mean, you're a very measured person. I can see
that you say the truth and just speak sort of
what's in your mind. But look, we all make mistakes.
Was there any moment in your career you've had to
course correct when you realize you weren't showing up in
alignment with your values.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
There's Certainly, moments where you get so caught up in
the juggernaut of things are really busy, and there's lots
of competing demands, and certainly you tend to get distracted
by the person who yells the loudest, and certainly that
makes you go in a certain direction where you otherwise
(19:19):
would like to be more things to more people.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
But I think that's probably I think it's pretty ill man.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, when you're under time pressure, you mean sort.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Of yeah, yeah, I mean there's lots of different things
that get thrown at you, and you're either kind of
a work pressure or home pressure or whatever it might be.
And I think it's really hard to stay measured, which
is what I like to do a lot of the time.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
That's when you make mistakes.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Is it easy if you'd met when you've made a.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Mistake easier now Earlier in your career, you go, oh,
it's like it's going to be career ending, or it's
going to be like it's just the most dramatic thing
in your life. And then you get through it and
you go, okay, yep, yep. As I've gone through my career,
really tried to hone in on if I've made a mistake,
I'll app asolutely own it, because if the shoes on
(20:07):
the other foot, you don't like other people deflecting, or
if somebody else has made a mistake, I'd rather they
own it and we'll go okay, we'll work on it
and we'll move on. Draw a line in the sand.
And don't want to really hold people to their mistakes.
You want to see the opportunity and the positivity that
can come from learning from the experience or the issue
that you've made a mistake, Well, whatever it is, just
(20:29):
learn from it.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Is that easy to do In an organization that's so
successful and you know, not for its high performance and
delivering to absolutely how does that play out?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
It's been a real journey over the years. I think
rewind back years ago, it was nobody wanted to make
a mistake. It was fear of God in your type.
These days, as a firm, we've.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Come a really long way.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
And certainly as a society, I think we've come a
really long way in being vulnerable and saying yep, we've
made a mistake. But the best way you can deal
with that is by rectifying it, admitting it, moving on going.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
How do we make this right.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I've seen it all right, And a lot of organizations
were like that, the more of a command control kind
of style, and we're aught to the right thing.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
That's free.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Typical, you're a large organization with that really strong reputation.
What have you seen? What are the things that you've
specifically seen that the company did to make that step change,
because you could have not it could have you know,
said no, we're not going to that past. Yeah, particular leaders,
particular behaviors, voices.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Certainly, our culture has changed over the last few years
and really focused on great governance, great processes, procedures, those
sorts of things that you wrap around everyone to make
sure that everybody understands what our accountability and responsibilities are
to both each other, the firm, our clients, those sorts
(21:45):
of things. So really robust policies, procedures, governance, that sort
of thing, And certainly people in various leadership roles very
very supportive of the culture of saying, Okay, if you've
done everything, possible mistakes are happening, how do we deal
with that and what's the gravity of it, how do
(22:06):
we respond And just having that sort of safer environment
for people to be able to not feel that they
can't speak up early enough.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I read a stat the other day eighty seven percent
of people expect their leaders to provide them with personal
development support and you'll be able to deal with their
problems that they're bringing from home as well. Right, Which
is really interesting because a long time ago, when I
sort of talked about this topic, people like, not my problem,
it's not the company's problem, right, But now it kind
of has become it because we've got this flexible hybrid.
You know, what do you see as the biggest challenges
(22:37):
and keeping employees retained in the organization happy outside of
paying mega salary and you know all that, Yeah, from
all that other culture side, what are you sort of
seeing as the biggest challenges.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
The biggest challenges are certainly making sure that we understand
our team's home and work life, because they are such
a blend these days. Helping people navigate through different stages
in their lives from starting their careers.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Maybe it's having.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Relationships, marriage, children, whatever that might look like for each
of our people, and just really bridging that gap between
You spend a lot of time working with each other,
and sometimes you spend more time working with people than
they do spend with their families or with their loved
ones outside of work or their hobbies or whatever it
(23:25):
might be. So it's really the big challenge is helping
people find the right balance of what works for them.
Some people are workaholics, some people really like their flexibility.
It's just so diverse, really diverse.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Oh that's tricky, Yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I think probably having those conversations earlier, you know what
matters to people absolutely, Like I remember old interview processes.
No one ever asked you, like, what was you know?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Nobody asked you what you did outside of them.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
No, it wasn't really well of it really was that
versus tailoring your working life a bit more to it
works to people. I think is an interesting one. Wanted
to ask you about conflict because you don't strike me
as a person who is in a high conflict kind
of character, but I could be wrong. How do you
handle things when people don't see things the same way
as you or don't care as much as you do.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
When people don't care as much as I do, I
do struggle with that. You just have to peg yourself
back a little bit and just understand where other people
are coming from and that goes the same when people
don't agree with what I might want to do or
I believe the right answer is, you just have to
unpack it and see all sides. Yeah, and then make
a call. If you're in that position where you're the
(24:31):
person making the call, I usually really like to make
sure I'm taking on board and understanding other people's perspectives
then making an informed call.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
What about with difficult conversations, because I find that's the
other one that does no matter how long you're in
your career, for you know, having that conversation about performance
or letting somebody go yeah, still as uncomfortable as it was.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Oh absolutely, yeah, absolutely, I think because for me it's
all about the person and if there's a performance issue, sure,
some things are black and white, and other things they're emotive.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
That makes it really.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Difficult when you're talk talking about people and humans and
decisions that might or outcomes that might really affect a
person and their families or their way of life.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
That sort of stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
So what I try to do is make sure we're
being fair and reasonable coming into all of those conversations
from place of care.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
So when we talk about empathy, how do you create
connection with the people that work for you, because obviously,
the more thing you get, I'm imagining you're distanced more
and more, like, how do you say, connected to their
real life and what's going on and so forth.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
I have this scene where a lot to think that
I can converse somewhat with some of our young staff
who has the same age.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
As my children. Oh, okay, technic.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
So that's the lingo I get at home can be
translated to the lingo at work. It's about just getting
to know the people.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Do you have time for that though? In your job?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Oh, you make time. You have to.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
We're a people business, and whether that's your clients or
your team internally, you've definitely got to make time. It
is hard because there's only a certain amount of hours
in the day and everyone's got different roles and responsibilities
and things they've got to execute on. But trying to
make the time to connect with each person I think
is really important. And then even if you don't one
on one connect, just having that awareness of understanding what's
(26:19):
going on through other people.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, and when you notice someone struggling, how do you
show up for them?
Speaker 3 (26:26):
If it's something that I can help them with personally,
then I will always endeavor to do so. If it's
something somebody else is helping them with, then it's just
being there for support and asking people what's going on
for you?
Speaker 1 (26:39):
What can we do? I think we're really good at
responding to making sure people have the tools and resources
around them and the support around them that if there's
something that they want to improve on or want to
get better at, that we can help support with that.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
What about when you're struggling.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
I've got a great family that helped support and kind
of pick you up when you're having a bad moment.
But I've also got great people peer wise at work.
I think in our environment, nobody wants to see anybody
not having a positive experience, so we're very attuned to that.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
I feel like the last few years of consulting, I've
noticed a lot more companies having those really honest conversations
at the table. I think it was one organization I
went to where they would go around and get everyone
to sort of number where they're at in terms of stress.
Then what do I need from people in this room
right now?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeap?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
And sometimes that's like I just need everyone to be
a patient with me because I'm going through something bigger
at home, and is that kind of Oh?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Absolutely, I think we would spend as much time internally
supporting our teams and our people, talking about what support
our teams and people need, like as we do servicing clients.
It's a really big part of what we do all
throughout the year, regular check ins, those sorts of things.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
It's huge.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Let's go back to seventeen year old Samantha just now,
I sat on schoolies, but you've decided on this, that's sad.
What's the key lessons you've learned over thirty years spanning
this career. Yeah, what would you tell her now?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
I'd probably say not to be as hesitant and not
to sort of second guess yourself throughout taking those extra
opportunities or jumping.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Right into things.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
I think if I look back, there were times you go, oh,
I don't know whether I should do that, or am
I right for that role or those types of things,
And so for me it would be be more rest So, yeah,
be a bit more of a risk taker.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Okay, So then the next twenty years, theam what's a
goal out there? Now? You don't do goals. I don't
do goals, but is there a risk that you'd like
to take that you sort of go.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
I think it'll be whatever the next opportunity is or
wherever that presents itself, just going for it right, not
overthinking it, really having a crack.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I always like to finish on not always this question,
but I've used it a few times. So I heard
this from this harvest psychologist, and I thought it was
such a great question to ask leaders. So, Sam, why
should anyone be led by you?
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Gosh?
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Okay, I don't see myself as the leader. What I
see is I create an environment where people can be
at their best and we can do great things. So
it's not necessarily for me why people should be led
by me, but why people can work with me to
(29:29):
make sure that we're bringing the best out in each other,
and we're bringing the best to our clients, and we're
bringing the best.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
To our communities. Oh, I love that. I like now
I think about it.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, very humpable. Well, thank you. It's been amazing having
you on here. I really enjoyed our conversation, So thank you,
Thank you.
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