July 27, 2025 • 38 mins
Welcome to Mayhem Monday where we talk about Mili's most recent Kokoda Track adventure.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appod Shape Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
A team Glenn here walking back to the building Better
Humans Project podcast. This is another episode of Mayhem Monday.
So I'm with my trustee ssidekick.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Hello. Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Now, we just did an episode on Kakoda and we
released that first on the Kokoda Track podcast, which is
another podcast that we have, and I think adventure is
the best personal development in the world. Yeah, first and foremost,
and so I wanted to share it on here as well.
And then after this we'll go and start answering all
those questions that have been coming through on the NGLs.
But a little bit of a spiel about what to
(00:41):
expect from this episode or anything you wanted to add
in as we launch into the Kakoda episode here on
Mayhem Mondays as well.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Yeah, well, we talked mostly about, you know, things from
my point of view as a public union national. Yeah,
so there's there's a lot of that, you know, about
going home and things like that. And we did forget
to mention that I took my best friend Brendan from
my school Shoot. His name is Brendan Shoot, and I
(01:08):
call him Shoot, so big shout out to Shoot because
he is and this is not being mean, but he's
not athletic. He's very academic. He's very smart. He's such
a nerd, and so.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Stop at Brandon. You're athletic, he's not punct.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
So the fact that he came and he smashed it
and he did this, and you know, there was a
moment in there where he hurt his knee and he
thought that he might not make it or but he
pushed through and you know, and it was all in
personal growth. So that's what he wanted. That's what he
wanted out of this. So shout out to shoot.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
This is Mayhem Monday, and we're talking about Kakoda. I
haven't done an interview for a little while with someone
that's tricked Kakoda, and this week, I guess it's a
little bit exciting because I get to introduce my partner,
Millie Saul. How are you good?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I'm excellent. For anyone that doesn't know, Millie was born
and bred in PNG, so she's a mil And Bay
girl and we've been traveling back to New Guinea for
the last couple of years together and she is the
current pup New Guinea in fifty seven kilo National boxing
champion and she'll go down to fifty four kilo soon
and she's a very good chance, we believe, of representing
P and G at the Commath game. So you've got
(02:24):
a deep connection to the country. For me being able
to take you on this experience, I don't know, like
it meant a lot to me because when we first met,
I said to you, like, how long since you've been home?
And that was after COVID and all that sort of stuff,
and you hadn't been home for like eight years, and
so I remember saying, that's crazy. You got to go home,
and I was going home more than you at.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
That stage, was very jealous of that.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, So before we talk about having your first Kakoda experience,
which the reason it didn't happen soon is because you
did an ACL injury, But I want to talk about
the first few times we went home, Like I noticed
a changing you immediately once you got connected. I remember
before we went home, and if you don't mind me sharing,
we're driving one time and you just started really teary
and I said, what's wrong, and you said, I just
(03:07):
want to go home. So now we've got to do that.
A lot taught me through all of that that firstly
year of going home together, Like home.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Is such a powerful word. I wouldn't get emotional now
you're allowed.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Yeah, it really is, because that was it is you
genuinely feel in your heart that you're home, like your
where you're supposed to be. Yeah, it was beautiful. It
really was seeing all my family and my friends and
the people who I grew up with. And then I
looked back and I was like, damn it, it has been
(03:43):
eight years. Like that's almost a decade. That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, it's too long. And we got to go. You
took me to Milbay and we got to go and
see your dad's grave. Yeah, which again you know, with
dad being buried there and you know, being a PNG national,
it's a shame that you hadn't got to do that
in the eight years. And we talked a little bit
about that, and I don't want to go too deeply
into it, but you've been in relationships in the past
(04:09):
before you and I with people that thought buying your
holidays or handbags all these things, whereas a trip home
would have been to me far more powerful.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Man, you with some of the things that I have
been bought. And this is not trying to sound ungrateful
or anything like that. But you know that's a ticket home.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You said that to me, Like that handbag, I could
have went home.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I don't even use it, you know what I mean.
It's not my style. It's just Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So we went home, and I noticed everything that changes
about you. Your accent goes back to more P and
G because the longer you're in Australia, more that sticks.
But when you we're around P and G people, I
just feel you go back to your natural state.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yeah, and that's pretty the accent that I grew up with,
you know, the way that my family and friends will
understand me, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And getting to speak language. I love listening to you
to speak language. So your first few kakoda experiences weren't
on co coda because you had NAC. But you would
come over with me and then you'd go home. Well
i'd go out in the track and then you come
back at the end and you got to meet trekkers
before and after. What were you noticing back then on
your first few experiences before you got to trek it yourself.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Well, I love the dinners at the end. So we
used to listen to all the trekkers and you know,
tell us their version of how what they took away
from the track, and I just sit there, going, god,
I really want to do this walk. I really don't
want to do this walk, but my knee wasn't ready.
But yeah, the way that people really embrace the country,
(05:41):
and regardless of how hard that they worked for eight
days walking, the thing that they took out of it
is how much they love the people and the villagers
and the borders and the country. And yeah, so it
was really nice to hear.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Obviously, you know, I've got a close affinity with the
country and I've been traveling there for years. But what
was it like to experience, I guess me for the
first time over there, because this is different to me
being your partner here or your boxing coach, or this
is me being in your country. Now.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Yeah, well I remember the first time, even not walking
the track, I saw how amazing you treat the people.
And I have said this before, you know, it's it's
refreshing to see a big white man in a third
world country and not walking there and trying to just
own it and emboss everybody around and thinking that they're
lesser than them. And because it happens quite a lot,
(06:31):
so it was really really nice to see. And then
now that you're my partner, it's even it's even better.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So all right, let's talk a bit about this actual
trek and what I've done is I wanted to I
was saying rely before we started this, I always asked
the same questions of people on Kakoda, So I always
ask about, you know, how they found it, what surprised them,
what gear do they wish they'd take, and what gear
did they take that they didn't end up using. We
normally talk to all of that stuff their training programs.
(06:59):
I think that's a bit unfair because Millie is a
professional athlete, so.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
We don't struggle in the downhills, I will say that.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
But what I did want to ask, and I cheated,
and I use chat GBT to help me with some questions.
I wanted to find out from the point of view
of a pup Uni Guinea national who's been living in
Australia for a few years now, but you know, largely
grow up through your most formative years in PNG, that
is your home still and you'll always refer to it
his home. And as much as you love Australia and
the boys are born here Australia as your second home,
(07:29):
and so I wanted to know as a PNG national
going back and then being a part of understanding what
Kakoda was about, because my experience is a lot of
P and G nationals don't understand the significance of Kokoda
on an international level. So all these questions are kind
of formulated around getting to know a side of trekking
Kokoda that we don't always get to ask. Just Aussie
(07:49):
s too trek Kokoda, and I hope for those of
you listening it gives you some insights from the other side.
And I'm very passionate about how we treat our porters
and the boys and Killer and his team and the
locals and villages, and I'll hold that standard and not
all trekking companies do. I'm not baking me up, but
that's just a fact. They're not slaves. They're not here,
you know, just to make up the numbers for us,
(08:11):
Most people that I've taken on Kokoda could not track
the whole thing on their own if they had to
carry all their own gears, set up the tens and
do the stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
So most people wanting most yeah, and so.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I want you to experience from the PNG side. You
know what that means. So first question was what did
it mean to you as someone born in partner getting
to walk kakoda.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Well, we grew up not knowing much about the kokoda track,
very general knowledge, and I remember first hearing about it
and I wanted to do it because I thought it
would be a tough thing to do and I always
like to challenge myself. So that was when I was
a kid. That's that's how I felt about kakoda. And
it was not until growing up and learning the full
history and you know how the Fuzzy Wuzzy Angels helped,
(08:54):
how much they were involved and yeah, so yeah, it
was really good to learn that side of things.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So the second question kind of ties into what we
talked about before and when we made emotional returning into
your country. How did it feel to return to the
land of your birth but seeing it through the eyes
of a trekker, because obviously you spent a lot of
time with the boys when we were on Brigade Hill.
You stood in seeing your national anthem with the boys,
(09:20):
of course, but also you know, spending so much time
in Australia, now you got to experience this from the
trekkers point of view as well, so you get to
witness how they treat not just our groups, other groups,
how they treat the locals, you know, what their experience is.
But it's still your home.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Yeah, yeah, like it was through the eyes of a trekker.
I guess you could say, you know how absolutely amazing
the porters are and the boys are, you know, walking
over that track like it's nothing. It's wild how they
do that with no ifshoes sometimes. And you know, I
was a trekker, so they were carrying my big pack.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
You know.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
It wasn't like I was doing all of that like
like they do.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I think you could have too, but we were prepping
for a fight.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, so we didn't want to do too much.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, we need to look after your body a little
bit because you're fighting only weeks later.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
But then returning home and then realizing, you know, the
long drops and so looking at that from a trek
is point of you, and I haven't had it, had
to use a long drop or a natural shower in
so long like that was obviously it took me back
as well.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
But they feel good.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Yeah, I love the natural showers they really do. Yeah,
or washing in the river, that's just my thing. I
missed that so much about home.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Did walk in Kokoda deepen your connection to PNG? And
I find that an interesting question because you've had such
a deep connection. Our whole house is built around PNG.
But more importantly, did it shift how you see the
cultural identity? And I guess the question there is a
lot of people P ANDNG people don't they know Trekkers
come over from trek They know there's money being made
(10:52):
through that, you know, from both the PNG in Australian,
but they probably don't fully understand the cultural connection and
how internationally important it was. So did it help connect
you in some way to the story of Kokoda?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah? For sure. It reminded me of how helpful and
hospitable our people are.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
And yeah, it just reminded me of you know, how
good our people are really?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So yeah, what does the story mean to you? As
apartment in the Guineon? And can I preface this but
I didn't work with the Hunters years ago and I
got up and talked to them about building. And for
those who don't know, the Hunters are a Queensland Cup
rugby league team and which is one under the NRL,
and I was trying to connect them with their story
the way the All Blacks connect. They're not all Maltis
(11:39):
in the All Blacks, but they connect with the New
Zealand story really well as their purpose. And I wanted
to help you know, the hunters out, so not everyone's
from the Kakoda Track area, but I wanted to explain
that side of it, and they loved it. They really
bored into it. Hard to say that we're a warrior
nation and so we should perform as a warrior nation.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
So also together, you know, helping each other. And yeah,
well on that.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
What does it feel like to hear the term fuzzy
wuzzy angels on the track because there's a real legacy
to that, and I've had social media posts where people go, oh,
that's racist, but I know my boys on the track,
you know.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Ivan and racist because of the hair, because I.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Think because the term comes from just the way their
hair was back then. Obviously they had the big, fuzzy
wizzy hair as.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Opposed to the boys will call the boys will say
white person. So they just call it how it is,
so no one's getting offended, so it's all good.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
How different aren't they? Yeah, Like I remember years ago
just talking to the boys and they were talking about
two white people or two trekkers and one was a
bit bigger than the other, and you couldn't say that
in Australia. But they were talking about someone and one
of them said which one and he said, are the
fat one? And he's he's just saying there's one that's
bigger than the other. And that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, he's not trying to offend anybody. He's
just they're very literal people. So when I hear fuzzy
wizy angels, it doesn't you know, it's not offensive or
it actually makes me feel proud, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
That's the way they were described.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
And then you could also look at the pot it
like angels like they helped they were.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
There were there moments on the track when I'm talking
through the history where because you've spent a lot of
time in Australia as well, now, was there a moments
where that you felt those two histories intertwined and you
had a better understanding because you've come from p and
G yes, and you're living in Australia.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Yeah, for sure, you explained the history so well. And
you know, like I said, when I was young, I
only wanted to do it because I thought it would
be a challenge. And then as I got older, I
learned a little bit more, and then on the track,
I learned a hell of a lot more because of
the way that you tell it and how experienced you are,
and so it definitely intertwines. You know, it's a beautiful experience.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
When people talk about Kakoda, there's a lot of onus
on Australians. It was the first defeat the Japanese had
in a land battle, and we were heavily out numbered
four thousand Australians Verse twenty four and a half thousand
Japanese throughout the whole campaign. Not enough onners is put
on the fifteen thousand papuins. Without them, there's no way
they could have won this. And so for me, I
(14:08):
like to make sure that that history gets told as
accurately as we know it. Because the fifteen thousand pupuns
allowed us not to have to carry our food, our
ammunition now wounded, so our four thousand fighters could fight.
The Japanese didn't have the pupmans on their side. Very
early on the pupmins left them for you know, there's
a whole stories behind that. But they had to carry
all their own gear, so whilst they out numbered us,
(14:29):
they also had to do a lot more work and
we could just fight, So that side, that's pretty important,
and I think it's the most significant international thing as
far as you know. This was a world war and
pup New Guinea played a massive role in that, and
I wish we could somehow teach all of them that
they should all be proud of it. It's not just
because you're not from that land. You had to be
from Oro Province to know everyone should be proud of it.
(14:50):
I mean mil Bay has its own history obviously, and
we're looking at for those listening putting together some tours
of milm Bay, which is where Millie's from, because there's
significant history there too.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, are you're just driving around this all, you know,
stuff from the war that they've left then made memorials of.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And so leaving p and G and coming to Australia.
I'm sure it was very exciting at the time because
you were in high school. But I also feel like
there's pieces of you that and tell me if I'm wrong,
but that regret or miss or feel disconnected in some
ways for some years from your country by not getting
to go home.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Yeah, especially since I had kids, I really do wish
that I taught them how to speak pigeon And yeah
it's hard now because they know English so well, but
I really do just and that's their cousins sort of
that not me.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
So So then the next question is did walk in
Kakoda help you reconcile your journey of leaving Australia, sorry,
leaving p and G and coming to Australia. By going back,
you've got an identity in both countries. Now do you
feel like now that you've been traveling back there it's
helped you reconcile your own journey?
Speaker 4 (16:01):
And I think so, Yeah, it's very grounding going home
and yeah, just it's like that word, it's home.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
So and you get to impart your knowledge that as
much as I've been there, I can't have the knowledge
that you have right of the country. So we'll often
talk to trackers about stuff, but you can give so
much more depth. And the boys sometimes struggle because their
English isn't always great. They can't find the words to
say the thing, and they just try and get out
of the conversation, but you can stay in it and
(16:26):
give people a better understanding.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Yeah, And actually, you know when you listen to the
boys when they're cooking or when they're setting up the tents,
and I love the fact that I know what they're
saying most of the time, because sometimes when they don't
want me to know what they're saying, they speak more
to and I don't know how to.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Understand what your dad spoke more to, you said, My
dad spoke quite a few languages.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, it's funny when we have if you ever get
a word wrong in English, which is rare, but and
I'll make fun of you because that's what partners do.
And you'll go, how many languages do you speak? And
I just see, ayah, fair, this is my sec my
first language. What did the land itself say to you
through the villages, through the rivers, through you know, like
(17:06):
this is I know it's a different part of the country,
but it must have felt very similar to your life
in the village when you were younger.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
It did, and I know I keep saying it, but honestly,
it said welcome home. Because I spent if you've listened
to other podcasters that we've done together. You know, I
spent a few years living village Love. So we washed
in the river and we walked to get water, and
you know, we had no shoes and we lived in
a heart, but we weren't poor.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
That was just that's what people get wrong. They look
at that in the villages and they think they're poor,
and we think we need to pour all these Western
resources into them to make them more Western eyes. And
you know, we have anxiety and depression and all of
these things that happened in Western society. Even though we
have all this stuff, there was.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Always there was always someone to help us if we
need it, or give us food or whatever it was.
And you know, when you're walking through the villages, you
see you see that, you see the huts, you see
the rivers, you see the villages, you see the people,
and it's just like, I'm home.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
For those people that haven't checked yet. And a lot
of people listen to this show with the intention of tecking.
That's why they listened initially. What would you hope that
they understood better about Puppy in Ner Guinea.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Don't just look at the news and what you see
on socials about PNG, and you know, every single person
who says, oh, you're from PG, isn't it dangerous?
Speaker 3 (18:28):
And it's just.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Yeah, don't walk around thinking you'll be you'll be fine.
But PNG is a beautiful, hospitable, welcoming, amazing country if
you get out of the main cities and go into
the villages like like we do on the Kokoda track.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
So and I always say to people that when you
have a center like Port Moresby that's last out I
checked with seventy percent unemployment, you can put that unemployment
anywhere and you're going to have problems. Yeah, because people
are trying to survive. And if we wanted to help
solve problems in P and G, it would be through
better work opportunities, employment and education opportunities in those centers.
(19:08):
But out in the villages, I think just leave them
alone healthcare and phone access of the two things they
really want. Other than that, leave them alone. They're getting
it right when COVID happened, and they grow their own food,
they've got all their water that they need, and they
live with two and three generations all living together. They
didn't need anything. If the whole world disappeared during COVID
(19:30):
people out in the village of put, New Guinea would
have been the only one surviving. Not in Africa, not
in other countries I've been where they've now become so
westernized and as western as we think we've got it nailed,
and we have not, because you watch people panic over
toilet paper. Here people were fighting over milk and eggs
and flour. We had a cyclone that didn't really happen
(19:50):
a couple of months back when we were coming home
from Canada, and we got home as that was supposed
to be happening, and the shops were cleared out. You
couldn't buy food.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
And that's another thing.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Everyone in Publy, New Guinea is so willing to give,
and so you know, if you're down on something, you
know someone's going to give you something. And so if
you're not going to go to the garden and there'll
be one last you know, plant left, and someone's not
going to share that with you, whereas here you go
to the supermarket and there's one cutton of eggs left,
you're probably going to get into a fight for that
(20:19):
cuton of eggs, you know. You know, so people will
give or you'll see it often. Two boys walking around
and not one of them's got no shoes, and the
other person gives them one of their thongs and they're
wearing one for one thng, Like it's just rather.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Than may have a pair and you have none.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I've bought new shoes for boys of mine over there before,
and we're walking. Every year, I buy them a new
pair of these specific shoes. He's like this Salomon Runners.
They're blue and yellow. That's the cut. I don't know why.
But and then we're walking and he wasn't wearing them,
and I said, you're not wearing a new shoes and
he said, now, my dad said he needed some shoes,
so he gave them to him. Yeah, a lot of
people would have given the old shoes if someone needed
(20:54):
because I've just got new ones here. He can have
my old ones now. He gave his new ones in
a brand new box, knowing full well that he wasn't
going to get a new sept for another year. And hey,
if you need it, if you ask people as trekkers,
if you ask people over there for things, they will
go and find it and sort it out for it.
Even if they needed it, they'll take it off their
own back. So I think we can learn a lot
in that sense. How do we better share the pup
(21:18):
unigion inside of our story? Like I think I personally
do it well, and I'm not just saying that, but
I do. And I know you've seen that, but for
people in general, and I'll give you my opinion on
this in a second, but how do you think we
better share the PNG.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Side on cocoda?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
You mean just about their part in Kokoda in particular.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
And make sure you do your research and get reviews
on who you go with, like, because there's all sorts
of different people who will share it differently. And like
you just said, you do it very well. You do
it very respectfully, very truthfully, and the way that, in
my opinion, it should be done. There's no amount of
that track or even watching you with your track is
(22:00):
even if I haven't walked, do I find that you
are belittling or condescending towards our people? And some people are,
and so do your research.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So yeah, and I've watched that sadly where the way
some people treat them and I'm not a fan of
that in any country but certainly in PNG. But for me,
I'll pull trekkers up and I will let them know
in advance. If you're going to do something that's going
to be against the cultural norms, I'm going to let
you know because they won't always. And a key one
for me and for people listening if you're planning on going,
is for girls wearing really short shorts, like bummer shorts
(22:32):
and stuff, which in Australia totally cool, that's that's a thing.
But in Pange they don't like that and they take
it quite personally and they feel like it's it's pushing
against their religion, mostly Seventh Day of Venice. But they
very rarely say something.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
They won't say they won't say anything.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
And I've had like Killer who's my head guide, and
you know, but people have heard about as well. I've
had in't come up and say to me, oh, you know, boss,
would you mind talking to them about that? And yet
I've been in campsites where not my trekkers, because I
would tell my trekkers where they're running around in, you know,
g strings, swimmers and stuff. But again in Australia fine,
(23:08):
and no one's saying anything, and then they're not my trekkers.
And I think, well, you should be letting people know
that when you go into someone else's country, I don't
care what country is, you need to play by their rules,
whether you like them or not. And the fact that
we're not telling you you can't have your freedom as
a woman. It's just that there goes against their beliefs.
Look at what their people are doing. It's the same.
And for men, the other side of that is Oussie men,
(23:32):
particularly in the jungle, think that they can just pee
on the nearest tree or you know, I've had blokes
get their kit fully off when I've had all men's
trips and hang on, there's women and children in this village.
You wouldn't stand in the middle of Brison with your
pants off because you think these people don't matter. You
just wouldn't do that. And so you just have to
let people know to have a little bit of modesty
around that stuff. And that's just one of the cultural norms.
(23:54):
The other one is, particularly in the villages, they don't
swear a lot. You'll notice, and Ossie swear a lot.
The f and the sea bomb comes out and I
just say to behay, that's not cool. If you listen
to them, they're not talking like that. Yeah, and they're
very very respectful people. The only time you really hear
a lot of language in p andngs drinking, you know,
import more zoo when people get a few drinks under
(24:15):
their belt. And I guess that's anywhere, but out in
the villages you very rarely.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I've literally never heard my boys swear, and we do
it all the time in Australia. So just their little
cultural things that if you're conscious of you can be
more respectful of the local people. Don't just say oh,
I couldn't have done it with the animal than the
most beautiful people, actually respect them.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, really, And also you know, don't just boss them
around like they're your slaves.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Like, yeah, you got to ask.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Them respectfully how you would ask any other human being.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
If they can do something.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
For you, they will do it.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
They will do it, and they'll go out of their
way to do it.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
In fact, most of the time I found that they
anticipate you, so you don't even have to ask, and
they'll go and do the thing that you needed, whether
it's hold your backpack, whether it's make sure you don't slip,
whether it's your water's empty. I'm going to go and
fill it up. You know. So most of the time
they're really amazing and they do anticipate, but if you
need something done, just ask nicely.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Being from P and G, I know there were times
where and you're very independent, you get your word while
I want to go and do it yourself, and the
boys over it and pop up and grab it. You
don't know, I can do it, I say, just let
him do it.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Yeah, and they do love doing it, and I don't
want to take that away from them or you know,
make them make them feel like I'm not doing that,
they're not doing their job or what they're here for
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
But I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
I just I don't want anyone to go out of
their way for me.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Do you want to do more?
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah, I want to do as many as I can.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
So my one hundredth is next, the second antic trip next,
you'll be more one hundredth Obviously we'll do that one
together because it has to fit in around boxing and
kids and everything else. But we'll definitely do that one together.
Where do you see yourself adding more value into what
we do as a business now?
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Just coming from my background, do you know so you know,
I can translate for people, I can tell them about
our land. I can probably be that person who says, hey,
this is culturally unacceptable, because I know, and you know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
You find the boys accepted you really.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Well, Yeah, they really did, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And so I always sleep with the boys, like in
the huts and stuff. And I don't advise that for
everyone because malaria is a thing over there, and I
think if you're over there one time, you probably want
to try and protect yourself from that as best you can.
But for me, I sleep in the grass huts and
obviously you slept in there with me, and the boys
are really good with all of that. And I remember
last year, I think I took a photo in one
of the grass huts and the fire burning inside you
(26:39):
literally just banana leaves on the ground, and I sent
it to you when I got back, and you're like,
I want to do that, yeah, And so now we're
getting to do that.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
But you're also you know, you're an Aussie in a
lot of ways too, right, So you're a successful businesswoman,
You're very successful in everything that you athletically, and you
like the finer things in life.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, I do, I do. I love a good, good
long lunch.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, we love it, I find on and we level
of that. So then but when we go to Pang,
I see you. I definitely see you change the way
you dress to do the right thing by your country,
the way you operate, the way you do things, and
you just go back to being that person as well.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I love that, you know I can do both. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Now I'll ask some standard questions that I normally ask
people on Kokoda. Was there any day that you found
particularly hard, or any section of the track, even as
an athlete, that you found more difficult, or was there
anything that surprised you about the track?
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Probably not surprised, just because I've listened and I've watched
your videos and you you talk about it a lot,
and yeah, so I sort of knew what I was
getting into. Surprised by myself is the downhill was really
really tough on me. So yeah, every time you do
a briefing in the morning and you'd say that we've
(27:57):
got this much time of going downhill for this day,
I'm like, oh my god. And I tried to not
let it show, obviously because to be that person, but
going downhill was really hard for me. Going uphill was amazing.
I absolutely love going up. Man, it's a challenge for me.
I love a challenge. I love like when your heart's
beating through your chest and you, yeah, you just tell
(28:20):
yourself you've got to keep going.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
So that downhill probably to be fair for people listening,
I think would be based off the acl still.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
I think so, yeah, because it was.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
It's just obviously you were just going down and you're
catching yourself on your knee with every single step, and
then it was slippery, so you had to go a
little bit slow. It was, and you had to go
slower than I would have liked. And I like to
go a little bit quicker when I do things. And
so we're going really slow, making sure. And then usually
if you're walking downhill and you hurt a little bit,
like when we're doing heel sprints, and we'll turn and
(28:51):
face backwards and you walk backwards downhill just to give
a pressure off. You can't do that because you might
drip over something. You have to have your eyes on.
And then the fact that you're looking down for all
of this time and your neck hurt.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
And yeah, so then on the uphill we did we
do a little uphill race. We call it a self
paced event.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
We just race.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
We let people just go. And you took off. You
were feeling a bit fluy that day, and I said,
and like eight or so people that headed off up
the hill, and I said, don't race it just because
you're not feeling undertaking. You said, no, I'm racing, and
you did it in under twenty two minutes, overtook pretty
much everyone that had left before you by one, and
that was in the wet. So I'm interested to see, one,
how are you going to dry because you'll probably hit
(29:36):
some twenty minutes. But also, what did that feel like?
That is a hard hell?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
It was a hard heel.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Yeah, but you know, you're just telling yourself inside you
got to keep going, go to keep going, go to
keep going, to keep going. And I am very competitive,
as you know, so there's no way I was stopping
on that hill.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I feel that the boys are pretty impressed with you. Yeah,
you are one of their own, and they liked that,
and they love speaking to you in language I noticed,
and they really accepted that, and then they wanted to
see you do well.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
I think, yeah, well crazy, because I've an iceman, my porter.
He said to me, when we're walking up the hill,
he goes, Miller, you go and I'll come up soon.
And I said, how are you going to just chill?
And he said, yeah, I just got a few things
to do.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I'll come up.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
And I was like okay, So I was like off.
I'm like, I'm not waiting for anybody.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I'm going. So I kept going.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
I kept going, and I lost him for Aracon between
ten to fifteen minutes, really closer to the fifteen minute mark,
and then I hear these footsteps behind me and I
was like, oh my god, someone's going to come and
overtake me, and like my heart starts racing even more
than I already was. And then I turned around and
Iceman's just there.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
And I was like, where did you come from? And
then he just goes I caught up.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I love how I understated their Yeah you said your
Iceman that you or something?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah? I said Ice is that you? And he's like yeah,
And I was like, where did your co V is that?
I caught up? I was like, what, They're so crazy?
How they do that?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Hey, a friend of mine and I did a podcast
with years ago, Ricky. He did the track I can't
remember now but under forty hours, maybe under thirty. But
he had organized to have one of the porters, you know,
to do like an eight hour stint and so on.
And Iceman, this Iceman was a fair bit younger, but
still crazy fit, and he went with him and he
stayed with him the whole way. And the interesting thing
(31:19):
is that, and this is no disrespect to you, Ricky,
if you're listening, Ricky was very pumped and excited. He
got media over here about what he did, and yet
Iceman did it with no training. He sat right beside him,
easily could have overtaken him at any stage. And it
kind of reminds me of Tensing Norgay. He was the
sherpa who first climbed man. Ever, so the first human
to stand on top of Mount Everest was not Sir
(31:41):
Edmund Hillary. It was one of the sherpers and they
hadn't done it before either. But back in the original
sort of in the fifty sixties, seventies and eighties, even
maybe through to the nineties, you never heard his name.
He was always it was always Emilori, and well, it
was kind of like that, like, you know, Ricky's getting
all these accolades and he raised money, good money for veterans'
charities and all. But you think, well, Ivnant did it too,
(32:01):
and his initial plan was just to do eight hours
with you, and he's just, oh, this place is to
stay with you.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
So you would love to challenge myself and see how
fast I could do it. Even if we could do
it for a fundraiser or anything like that June.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
July next year, if we could fit it into your
fight schedule, we will try and do for you a
sub forty or some thirty.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Our absolutely love to do that. I asked his opinion.
I'm like, do you reckon I could do it? He's like, yeah,
I reckon he could do it.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
And it's not about a run either. It's about just
being able to hold a consistent pace, so knowing your
heart rates and just sitting on that. Who knows, I
just won't make a comeback for that.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Any advice that you would give to people that are
training for Kakoda man.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Don't skip the training, like don't just go for a
walk on flat land, or don't just ride your bike
or actually properly look up a training program and do it.
And you've got one. We have one. Yeah, so train legs,
walk downhill, get your cardio really really good, because you're
(33:04):
going to need your legs in your cardio.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
And your recovery. That gives you a recovery. Yeah, so
we're going to We've made a bit of a commitment.
We don't do a lot on our social media except
when we're on tracks, and so I've been writing a
social media plan for those listening. And one of the
things we're going to do, I'll go to two things,
talk a lot more about the history. Because you may
not treck with us. I wish you would, but you
might already be listening to this after your book with someone.
I'm also going to start to add in with Millie
(33:27):
some maybe weekly or something, just a training tip, one
little thing. Obviously we can't give you a whole program
on Instagram, but we have access to like a full
eight week program. You just go to Adventure Professionals dot com,
dot you and it pops up immediately for you. But
we'll just start to put little tips in how to
look after your knees. A lot of people they skip core,
they skip up a body because they think it's all legs. Weird.
(33:49):
Legs are important, but when you lose structure through your core,
your lower back, your tummy, and your shoulders, and you
start something that affects how you breathe.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
And you've got to carry a pack. You know, you
have a porter, but you're still carrying.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
A pack and it's still hard. And the other mistake
people make, in my opinion and experience this on the
second anti trip this year, is they get a personal
porter and then they still overload their own pack. And
so now they've got a porter's pack and they've got
a personal pack. Their personal pack's way too heavy. The
porter can't take any more gear, and you go. The
whole person getting a porter is not to bring more
stuff onto the track. It's to well, it helps employ
(34:22):
the locals, but to make it a little bit easier
for you.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
So I'm going to make coming over next year from
one hundredth and Michael and he's bringing his son and
he said, I'm going to get a porter, and he
had to justify it and he says, I'm not as
fit as I was when we did it last time.
And I'm like, bro, that was twenty two years ago.
None of us as fit as we were twenty two
years ago. You don't have to justify getting importer. My
experiences that people get, Oh, I feel bad if I
(34:47):
have to use a porter. No one cares, and you're
employing the locals. All that money goes to them. Anyway.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
They love it. They're here for it, very proud of
it their work. You know, you're employing somebody.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
They get to show you how proud of their culture,
how fit they are. They get to do a little
showcase on the hmself as well. And yeah, so don't
feel bad.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Was there anything that stood out for you in particular
from the boy's side or from the trekker's side on
the trip? What's a highlight for you of the trip?
It's always had Sorry, before we had a cracking group watch. Yeah,
so that was just that's luck. Sometimes we had a
really really good group. But yeah, what was a highlight
of something? One or two things that stood out.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
It's always going to be watching my home, you know,
my countrymen in their home. That's always going to be
a highlight for me. And then another highlight for me,
which even though even on trips where I've come and
picked up the porters at the end and I haven't walked,
it's always a highlight for me listening to other people
experience that as well.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So do you feel I feel like I know the
answer this, but do you feel a sense of pride
when you watch how the boys operate and you see
by the end how much people respect them?
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Yeah, one hundred percent. That's one of my favorite things.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
And we get to have that dinner and talk about
all of that.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
I love that dinner, you know, Like I said at
the start, you know one troops at home, where I've
gone to Milon Bay while you've walked the track, and
then I've come back and met you guys at the
end of it. And then we go to the hotel
and we have dinner and everyone stands up and they
say their peace, and I absolutely live for that bit
of the trip.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I want to take you back to one more moment
to finish off. We're on Brigade Hill and because you're
you know, this is our company, so this company is
owned by us, and so you are looking after the
trekkers as much as having your own experience. And when
we line up, we get everyone in a semicircle up
on Brigade Hill and the boys standing behind. And the
reason I do that is because they're such good singers,
(36:39):
but they can get a bit shy if everyone's looking
at them, and so particularly in the daylight. So I
just say to people, don't turn around, just absorb their
national anthem and stuff. And you, I feel like you're
a little bit confused about where you should be. Should
I be with the clients the trekkers and you were
standing sort of there but one step back, and I
just went up and said, hey, you stand with the
boys because you wanted to sing that national anthem. Describe
(37:00):
that feeling to me singing the national anthem with the boys.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
It was so powerful and it was emotional, and I
took a video. I was just holding my phone and
filming while we were singing, and I obviously wasn't going
to put it in their faces like the filming, but yeah,
I just really wanted like a memory of that. But
I can't even watch that back because of me just crying.
(37:26):
So I was trying to sing, but then my voice
would shake and I'd start crying.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
And yeah, I do. I love our national anthem.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
It's amazing.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
Yeah, and yeah, it always takes me back to my childhood.
And yeah, because you sing your national anthem a lot
when you're in school and stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
So you've got a beautiful voice. And I put that
down to the boys too. They harmonioused really well because
they sing. They're a culture that sings. Yeah, and we
through church or whatever their reasons, but it was nice
to hear that female voice added to them. To be honest,
for those wondering, obviously, when you listen to the intros
and exit of this podcast, that's literally footage taken on
(38:03):
Brigadehill of our boys singing, and that was for a documentary,
so you get to hear it every time you listen
to this podcast, but there's still something extra special about
experiencing it in real time.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
So any final thoughts as we signed off on our
cocoada track podcast.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Everyone should do it. Everyone should do it.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
It's it was such a beautiful experience. I can't wait
to do it again. I'm so glad that I did
it finally.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, thanks for listening to this episode of The Building
Better Humans podcast with your host Glenn Asa.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
For feedback.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
To stay up to date or go back and find
an old episode, head over to one eighty dot net
dot au. Yeah, the Building Better Humors Project pocas this
guy
Appod Shape Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
A team Glenn here walking back to the building Better
Humans Project podcast. This is another episode of Mayhem Monday.
So I'm with my trustee ssidekick.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Hello. Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Now, we just did an episode on Kakoda and we
released that first on the Kokoda Track podcast, which is
another podcast that we have, and I think adventure is
the best personal development in the world. Yeah, first and foremost,
and so I wanted to share it on here as well.
And then after this we'll go and start answering all
those questions that have been coming through on the NGLs.
But a little bit of a spiel about what to
(00:41):
expect from this episode or anything you wanted to add
in as we launch into the Kakoda episode here on
Mayhem Mondays as well.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Yeah, well, we talked mostly about, you know, things from
my point of view as a public union national. Yeah,
so there's there's a lot of that, you know, about
going home and things like that. And we did forget
to mention that I took my best friend Brendan from
my school Shoot. His name is Brendan Shoot, and I
(01:08):
call him Shoot, so big shout out to Shoot because
he is and this is not being mean, but he's
not athletic. He's very academic. He's very smart. He's such
a nerd, and so.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Stop at Brandon. You're athletic, he's not punct.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
So the fact that he came and he smashed it
and he did this, and you know, there was a
moment in there where he hurt his knee and he
thought that he might not make it or but he
pushed through and you know, and it was all in
personal growth. So that's what he wanted. That's what he
wanted out of this. So shout out to shoot.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
This is Mayhem Monday, and we're talking about Kakoda. I
haven't done an interview for a little while with someone
that's tricked Kakoda, and this week, I guess it's a
little bit exciting because I get to introduce my partner,
Millie Saul. How are you good?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
How are you?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I'm excellent. For anyone that doesn't know, Millie was born
and bred in PNG, so she's a mil And Bay
girl and we've been traveling back to New Guinea for
the last couple of years together and she is the
current pup New Guinea in fifty seven kilo National boxing
champion and she'll go down to fifty four kilo soon
and she's a very good chance, we believe, of representing
P and G at the Commath game. So you've got
(02:24):
a deep connection to the country. For me being able
to take you on this experience, I don't know, like
it meant a lot to me because when we first met,
I said to you, like, how long since you've been home?
And that was after COVID and all that sort of stuff,
and you hadn't been home for like eight years, and
so I remember saying, that's crazy. You got to go home,
and I was going home more than you at.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
That stage, was very jealous of that.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, So before we talk about having your first Kakoda experience,
which the reason it didn't happen soon is because you
did an ACL injury, But I want to talk about
the first few times we went home, Like I noticed
a changing you immediately once you got connected. I remember
before we went home, and if you don't mind me sharing,
we're driving one time and you just started really teary
and I said, what's wrong, and you said, I just
(03:07):
want to go home. So now we've got to do that.
A lot taught me through all of that that firstly
year of going home together, Like home.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Is such a powerful word. I wouldn't get emotional now
you're allowed.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Yeah, it really is, because that was it is you
genuinely feel in your heart that you're home, like your
where you're supposed to be. Yeah, it was beautiful. It
really was seeing all my family and my friends and
the people who I grew up with. And then I
looked back and I was like, damn it, it has been
(03:43):
eight years. Like that's almost a decade. That's crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, it's too long. And we got to go. You
took me to Milbay and we got to go and
see your dad's grave. Yeah, which again you know, with
dad being buried there and you know, being a PNG national,
it's a shame that you hadn't got to do that
in the eight years. And we talked a little bit
about that, and I don't want to go too deeply
into it, but you've been in relationships in the past
(04:09):
before you and I with people that thought buying your
holidays or handbags all these things, whereas a trip home
would have been to me far more powerful.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
Man, you with some of the things that I have
been bought. And this is not trying to sound ungrateful
or anything like that. But you know that's a ticket home.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You said that to me, Like that handbag, I could
have went home.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I don't even use it, you know what I mean.
It's not my style. It's just Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So we went home, and I noticed everything that changes
about you. Your accent goes back to more P and
G because the longer you're in Australia, more that sticks.
But when you we're around P and G people, I
just feel you go back to your natural state.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yeah, and that's pretty the accent that I grew up with,
you know, the way that my family and friends will
understand me, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And getting to speak language. I love listening to you
to speak language. So your first few kakoda experiences weren't
on co coda because you had NAC. But you would
come over with me and then you'd go home. Well
i'd go out in the track and then you come
back at the end and you got to meet trekkers
before and after. What were you noticing back then on
your first few experiences before you got to trek it yourself.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Well, I love the dinners at the end. So we
used to listen to all the trekkers and you know,
tell us their version of how what they took away
from the track, and I just sit there, going, god,
I really want to do this walk. I really don't
want to do this walk, but my knee wasn't ready.
But yeah, the way that people really embrace the country,
(05:41):
and regardless of how hard that they worked for eight
days walking, the thing that they took out of it
is how much they love the people and the villagers
and the borders and the country. And yeah, so it
was really nice to hear.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Obviously, you know, I've got a close affinity with the
country and I've been traveling there for years. But what
was it like to experience, I guess me for the
first time over there, because this is different to me
being your partner here or your boxing coach, or this
is me being in your country. Now.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Yeah, well I remember the first time, even not walking
the track, I saw how amazing you treat the people.
And I have said this before, you know, it's it's
refreshing to see a big white man in a third
world country and not walking there and trying to just
own it and emboss everybody around and thinking that they're
lesser than them. And because it happens quite a lot,
(06:31):
so it was really really nice to see. And then
now that you're my partner, it's even it's even better.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
So all right, let's talk a bit about this actual
trek and what I've done is I wanted to I
was saying rely before we started this, I always asked
the same questions of people on Kakoda, So I always
ask about, you know, how they found it, what surprised them,
what gear do they wish they'd take, and what gear
did they take that they didn't end up using. We
normally talk to all of that stuff their training programs.
(06:59):
I think that's a bit unfair because Millie is a
professional athlete, so.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
We don't struggle in the downhills, I will say that.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
But what I did want to ask, and I cheated,
and I use chat GBT to help me with some questions.
I wanted to find out from the point of view
of a pup Uni Guinea national who's been living in
Australia for a few years now, but you know, largely
grow up through your most formative years in PNG, that
is your home still and you'll always refer to it
his home. And as much as you love Australia and
the boys are born here Australia as your second home,
(07:29):
and so I wanted to know as a PNG national
going back and then being a part of understanding what
Kakoda was about, because my experience is a lot of
P and G nationals don't understand the significance of Kokoda
on an international level. So all these questions are kind
of formulated around getting to know a side of trekking
Kokoda that we don't always get to ask. Just Aussie
(07:49):
s too trek Kokoda, and I hope for those of
you listening it gives you some insights from the other side.
And I'm very passionate about how we treat our porters
and the boys and Killer and his team and the
locals and villages, and I'll hold that standard and not
all trekking companies do. I'm not baking me up, but
that's just a fact. They're not slaves. They're not here,
you know, just to make up the numbers for us,
(08:11):
Most people that I've taken on Kokoda could not track
the whole thing on their own if they had to
carry all their own gears, set up the tens and
do the stuff.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
So most people wanting most yeah, and so.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I want you to experience from the PNG side. You
know what that means. So first question was what did
it mean to you as someone born in partner getting
to walk kakoda.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Well, we grew up not knowing much about the kokoda track,
very general knowledge, and I remember first hearing about it
and I wanted to do it because I thought it
would be a tough thing to do and I always
like to challenge myself. So that was when I was
a kid. That's that's how I felt about kakoda. And
it was not until growing up and learning the full
history and you know how the Fuzzy Wuzzy Angels helped,
(08:54):
how much they were involved and yeah, so yeah, it
was really good to learn that side of things.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So the second question kind of ties into what we
talked about before and when we made emotional returning into
your country. How did it feel to return to the
land of your birth but seeing it through the eyes
of a trekker, because obviously you spent a lot of
time with the boys when we were on Brigade Hill.
You stood in seeing your national anthem with the boys,
(09:20):
of course, but also you know, spending so much time
in Australia, now you got to experience this from the
trekkers point of view as well, so you get to
witness how they treat not just our groups, other groups,
how they treat the locals, you know, what their experience is.
But it's still your home.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Yeah, yeah, like it was through the eyes of a trekker.
I guess you could say, you know how absolutely amazing
the porters are and the boys are, you know, walking
over that track like it's nothing. It's wild how they
do that with no ifshoes sometimes. And you know, I
was a trekker, so they were carrying my big pack.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
You know.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
It wasn't like I was doing all of that like
like they do.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
I think you could have too, but we were prepping
for a fight.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, so we didn't want to do too much.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, we need to look after your body a little
bit because you're fighting only weeks later.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
But then returning home and then realizing, you know, the
long drops and so looking at that from a trek
is point of you, and I haven't had it, had
to use a long drop or a natural shower in
so long like that was obviously it took me back
as well.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
But they feel good.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Yeah, I love the natural showers they really do. Yeah,
or washing in the river, that's just my thing. I
missed that so much about home.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Did walk in Kokoda deepen your connection to PNG? And
I find that an interesting question because you've had such
a deep connection. Our whole house is built around PNG.
But more importantly, did it shift how you see the
cultural identity? And I guess the question there is a
lot of people P ANDNG people don't they know Trekkers
come over from trek They know there's money being made
(10:52):
through that, you know, from both the PNG in Australian,
but they probably don't fully understand the cultural connection and
how internationally important it was. So did it help connect
you in some way to the story of Kokoda?
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah? For sure. It reminded me of how helpful and
hospitable our people are.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
And yeah, it just reminded me of you know, how
good our people are really?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
So yeah, what does the story mean to you? As
apartment in the Guineon? And can I preface this but
I didn't work with the Hunters years ago and I
got up and talked to them about building. And for
those who don't know, the Hunters are a Queensland Cup
rugby league team and which is one under the NRL,
and I was trying to connect them with their story
the way the All Blacks connect. They're not all Maltis
(11:39):
in the All Blacks, but they connect with the New
Zealand story really well as their purpose. And I wanted
to help you know, the hunters out, so not everyone's
from the Kakoda Track area, but I wanted to explain
that side of it, and they loved it. They really
bored into it. Hard to say that we're a warrior
nation and so we should perform as a warrior nation.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
So also together, you know, helping each other. And yeah,
well on that.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
What does it feel like to hear the term fuzzy
wuzzy angels on the track because there's a real legacy
to that, and I've had social media posts where people go, oh,
that's racist, but I know my boys on the track,
you know.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Ivan and racist because of the hair, because I.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Think because the term comes from just the way their
hair was back then. Obviously they had the big, fuzzy
wizzy hair as.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Opposed to the boys will call the boys will say
white person. So they just call it how it is,
so no one's getting offended, so it's all good.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
How different aren't they? Yeah, Like I remember years ago
just talking to the boys and they were talking about
two white people or two trekkers and one was a
bit bigger than the other, and you couldn't say that
in Australia. But they were talking about someone and one
of them said which one and he said, are the
fat one? And he's he's just saying there's one that's
bigger than the other. And that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, he's not trying to offend anybody. He's
just they're very literal people. So when I hear fuzzy
wizy angels, it doesn't you know, it's not offensive or
it actually makes me feel proud, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
That's the way they were described.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
And then you could also look at the pot it
like angels like they helped they were.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
There were there moments on the track when I'm talking
through the history where because you've spent a lot of
time in Australia as well, now, was there a moments
where that you felt those two histories intertwined and you
had a better understanding because you've come from p and
G yes, and you're living in Australia.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Yeah, for sure, you explained the history so well. And
you know, like I said, when I was young, I
only wanted to do it because I thought it would
be a challenge. And then as I got older, I
learned a little bit more, and then on the track,
I learned a hell of a lot more because of
the way that you tell it and how experienced you are,
and so it definitely intertwines. You know, it's a beautiful experience.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
When people talk about Kakoda, there's a lot of onus
on Australians. It was the first defeat the Japanese had
in a land battle, and we were heavily out numbered
four thousand Australians Verse twenty four and a half thousand
Japanese throughout the whole campaign. Not enough onners is put
on the fifteen thousand papuins. Without them, there's no way
they could have won this. And so for me, I
(14:08):
like to make sure that that history gets told as
accurately as we know it. Because the fifteen thousand pupuns
allowed us not to have to carry our food, our
ammunition now wounded, so our four thousand fighters could fight.
The Japanese didn't have the pupmans on their side. Very
early on the pupmins left them for you know, there's
a whole stories behind that. But they had to carry
all their own gear, so whilst they out numbered us,
(14:29):
they also had to do a lot more work and
we could just fight, So that side, that's pretty important,
and I think it's the most significant international thing as
far as you know. This was a world war and
pup New Guinea played a massive role in that, and
I wish we could somehow teach all of them that
they should all be proud of it. It's not just
because you're not from that land. You had to be
from Oro Province to know everyone should be proud of it.
(14:50):
I mean mil Bay has its own history obviously, and
we're looking at for those listening putting together some tours
of milm Bay, which is where Millie's from, because there's
significant history there too.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, are you're just driving around this all, you know,
stuff from the war that they've left then made memorials of.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And so leaving p and G and coming to Australia.
I'm sure it was very exciting at the time because
you were in high school. But I also feel like
there's pieces of you that and tell me if I'm wrong,
but that regret or miss or feel disconnected in some
ways for some years from your country by not getting
to go home.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Yeah, especially since I had kids, I really do wish
that I taught them how to speak pigeon And yeah
it's hard now because they know English so well, but
I really do just and that's their cousins sort of
that not me.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
So So then the next question is did walk in
Kakoda help you reconcile your journey of leaving Australia, sorry,
leaving p and G and coming to Australia. By going back,
you've got an identity in both countries. Now do you
feel like now that you've been traveling back there it's
helped you reconcile your own journey?
Speaker 4 (16:01):
And I think so, Yeah, it's very grounding going home
and yeah, just it's like that word, it's home.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
So and you get to impart your knowledge that as
much as I've been there, I can't have the knowledge
that you have right of the country. So we'll often
talk to trackers about stuff, but you can give so
much more depth. And the boys sometimes struggle because their
English isn't always great. They can't find the words to
say the thing, and they just try and get out
of the conversation, but you can stay in it and
(16:26):
give people a better understanding.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Yeah, And actually, you know when you listen to the
boys when they're cooking or when they're setting up the tents,
and I love the fact that I know what they're
saying most of the time, because sometimes when they don't
want me to know what they're saying, they speak more
to and I don't know how to.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Understand what your dad spoke more to, you said, My
dad spoke quite a few languages.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah, it's funny when we have if you ever get
a word wrong in English, which is rare, but and
I'll make fun of you because that's what partners do.
And you'll go, how many languages do you speak? And
I just see, ayah, fair, this is my sec my
first language. What did the land itself say to you
through the villages, through the rivers, through you know, like
(17:06):
this is I know it's a different part of the country,
but it must have felt very similar to your life
in the village when you were younger.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
It did, and I know I keep saying it, but honestly,
it said welcome home. Because I spent if you've listened
to other podcasters that we've done together. You know, I
spent a few years living village Love. So we washed
in the river and we walked to get water, and
you know, we had no shoes and we lived in
a heart, but we weren't poor.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
That was just that's what people get wrong. They look
at that in the villages and they think they're poor,
and we think we need to pour all these Western
resources into them to make them more Western eyes. And
you know, we have anxiety and depression and all of
these things that happened in Western society. Even though we
have all this stuff, there was.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Always there was always someone to help us if we
need it, or give us food or whatever it was.
And you know, when you're walking through the villages, you
see you see that, you see the huts, you see
the rivers, you see the villages, you see the people,
and it's just like, I'm home.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
For those people that haven't checked yet. And a lot
of people listen to this show with the intention of tecking.
That's why they listened initially. What would you hope that
they understood better about Puppy in Ner Guinea.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Don't just look at the news and what you see
on socials about PNG, and you know, every single person
who says, oh, you're from PG, isn't it dangerous?
Speaker 3 (18:28):
And it's just.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Yeah, don't walk around thinking you'll be you'll be fine.
But PNG is a beautiful, hospitable, welcoming, amazing country if
you get out of the main cities and go into
the villages like like we do on the Kokoda track.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
So and I always say to people that when you
have a center like Port Moresby that's last out I
checked with seventy percent unemployment, you can put that unemployment
anywhere and you're going to have problems. Yeah, because people
are trying to survive. And if we wanted to help
solve problems in P and G, it would be through
better work opportunities, employment and education opportunities in those centers.
(19:08):
But out in the villages, I think just leave them
alone healthcare and phone access of the two things they
really want. Other than that, leave them alone. They're getting
it right when COVID happened, and they grow their own food,
they've got all their water that they need, and they
live with two and three generations all living together. They
didn't need anything. If the whole world disappeared during COVID
(19:30):
people out in the village of put, New Guinea would
have been the only one surviving. Not in Africa, not
in other countries I've been where they've now become so
westernized and as western as we think we've got it nailed,
and we have not, because you watch people panic over
toilet paper. Here people were fighting over milk and eggs
and flour. We had a cyclone that didn't really happen
(19:50):
a couple of months back when we were coming home
from Canada, and we got home as that was supposed
to be happening, and the shops were cleared out. You
couldn't buy food.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
And that's another thing.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Everyone in Publy, New Guinea is so willing to give,
and so you know, if you're down on something, you
know someone's going to give you something. And so if
you're not going to go to the garden and there'll
be one last you know, plant left, and someone's not
going to share that with you, whereas here you go
to the supermarket and there's one cutton of eggs left,
you're probably going to get into a fight for that
(20:19):
cuton of eggs, you know. You know, so people will
give or you'll see it often. Two boys walking around
and not one of them's got no shoes, and the
other person gives them one of their thongs and they're
wearing one for one thng, Like it's just rather.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Than may have a pair and you have none.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I've bought new shoes for boys of mine over there before,
and we're walking. Every year, I buy them a new
pair of these specific shoes. He's like this Salomon Runners.
They're blue and yellow. That's the cut. I don't know why.
But and then we're walking and he wasn't wearing them,
and I said, you're not wearing a new shoes and
he said, now, my dad said he needed some shoes,
so he gave them to him. Yeah, a lot of
people would have given the old shoes if someone needed
(20:54):
because I've just got new ones here. He can have
my old ones now. He gave his new ones in
a brand new box, knowing full well that he wasn't
going to get a new sept for another year. And hey,
if you need it, if you ask people as trekkers,
if you ask people over there for things, they will
go and find it and sort it out for it.
Even if they needed it, they'll take it off their
own back. So I think we can learn a lot
in that sense. How do we better share the pup
(21:18):
unigion inside of our story? Like I think I personally
do it well, and I'm not just saying that, but
I do. And I know you've seen that, but for
people in general, and I'll give you my opinion on
this in a second, but how do you think we
better share the PNG.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Side on cocoda?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
You mean just about their part in Kokoda in particular.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
And make sure you do your research and get reviews
on who you go with, like, because there's all sorts
of different people who will share it differently. And like
you just said, you do it very well. You do
it very respectfully, very truthfully, and the way that, in
my opinion, it should be done. There's no amount of
that track or even watching you with your track is
(22:00):
even if I haven't walked, do I find that you
are belittling or condescending towards our people? And some people are,
and so do your research.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So yeah, and I've watched that sadly where the way
some people treat them and I'm not a fan of
that in any country but certainly in PNG. But for me,
I'll pull trekkers up and I will let them know
in advance. If you're going to do something that's going
to be against the cultural norms, I'm going to let
you know because they won't always. And a key one
for me and for people listening if you're planning on going,
is for girls wearing really short shorts, like bummer shorts
(22:32):
and stuff, which in Australia totally cool, that's that's a thing.
But in Pange they don't like that and they take
it quite personally and they feel like it's it's pushing
against their religion, mostly Seventh Day of Venice. But they
very rarely say something.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
They won't say they won't say anything.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
And I've had like Killer who's my head guide, and
you know, but people have heard about as well. I've
had in't come up and say to me, oh, you know, boss,
would you mind talking to them about that? And yet
I've been in campsites where not my trekkers, because I
would tell my trekkers where they're running around in, you know,
g strings, swimmers and stuff. But again in Australia fine,
(23:08):
and no one's saying anything, and then they're not my trekkers.
And I think, well, you should be letting people know
that when you go into someone else's country, I don't
care what country is, you need to play by their rules,
whether you like them or not. And the fact that
we're not telling you you can't have your freedom as
a woman. It's just that there goes against their beliefs.
Look at what their people are doing. It's the same.
And for men, the other side of that is Oussie men,
(23:32):
particularly in the jungle, think that they can just pee
on the nearest tree or you know, I've had blokes
get their kit fully off when I've had all men's
trips and hang on, there's women and children in this village.
You wouldn't stand in the middle of Brison with your
pants off because you think these people don't matter. You
just wouldn't do that. And so you just have to
let people know to have a little bit of modesty
around that stuff. And that's just one of the cultural norms.
(23:54):
The other one is, particularly in the villages, they don't
swear a lot. You'll notice, and Ossie swear a lot.
The f and the sea bomb comes out and I
just say to behay, that's not cool. If you listen
to them, they're not talking like that. Yeah, and they're
very very respectful people. The only time you really hear
a lot of language in p andngs drinking, you know,
import more zoo when people get a few drinks under
(24:15):
their belt. And I guess that's anywhere, but out in
the villages you very rarely.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I've literally never heard my boys swear, and we do
it all the time in Australia. So just their little
cultural things that if you're conscious of you can be
more respectful of the local people. Don't just say oh,
I couldn't have done it with the animal than the
most beautiful people, actually respect them.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, really, And also you know, don't just boss them
around like they're your slaves.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Like, yeah, you got to ask.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
Them respectfully how you would ask any other human being.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
If they can do something.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
For you, they will do it.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
They will do it, and they'll go out of their
way to do it.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
In fact, most of the time I found that they
anticipate you, so you don't even have to ask, and
they'll go and do the thing that you needed, whether
it's hold your backpack, whether it's make sure you don't slip,
whether it's your water's empty. I'm going to go and
fill it up. You know. So most of the time
they're really amazing and they do anticipate, but if you
need something done, just ask nicely.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Being from P and G, I know there were times
where and you're very independent, you get your word while
I want to go and do it yourself, and the
boys over it and pop up and grab it. You
don't know, I can do it, I say, just let
him do it.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Yeah, and they do love doing it, and I don't
want to take that away from them or you know,
make them make them feel like I'm not doing that,
they're not doing their job or what they're here for
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
But I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
I just I don't want anyone to go out of
their way for me.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
It's hard.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Do you want to do more?
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah, I want to do as many as I can.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
So my one hundredth is next, the second antic trip next,
you'll be more one hundredth Obviously we'll do that one
together because it has to fit in around boxing and
kids and everything else. But we'll definitely do that one together.
Where do you see yourself adding more value into what
we do as a business now?
Speaker 4 (25:56):
Just coming from my background, do you know so you know,
I can translate for people, I can tell them about
our land. I can probably be that person who says, hey,
this is culturally unacceptable, because I know, and you know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
You find the boys accepted you really.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Well, Yeah, they really did, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And so I always sleep with the boys, like in
the huts and stuff. And I don't advise that for
everyone because malaria is a thing over there, and I
think if you're over there one time, you probably want
to try and protect yourself from that as best you can.
But for me, I sleep in the grass huts and
obviously you slept in there with me, and the boys
are really good with all of that. And I remember
last year, I think I took a photo in one
of the grass huts and the fire burning inside you
(26:39):
literally just banana leaves on the ground, and I sent
it to you when I got back, and you're like,
I want to do that, yeah, And so now we're
getting to do that.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
But you're also you know, you're an Aussie in a
lot of ways too, right, So you're a successful businesswoman,
You're very successful in everything that you athletically, and you
like the finer things in life.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, I do, I do. I love a good, good
long lunch.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Yeah, we love it, I find on and we level
of that. So then but when we go to Pang,
I see you. I definitely see you change the way
you dress to do the right thing by your country,
the way you operate, the way you do things, and
you just go back to being that person as well.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I love that, you know I can do both. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Now I'll ask some standard questions that I normally ask
people on Kokoda. Was there any day that you found
particularly hard, or any section of the track, even as
an athlete, that you found more difficult, or was there
anything that surprised you about the track?
Speaker 4 (27:36):
Probably not surprised, just because I've listened and I've watched
your videos and you you talk about it a lot,
and yeah, so I sort of knew what I was
getting into. Surprised by myself is the downhill was really
really tough on me. So yeah, every time you do
a briefing in the morning and you'd say that we've
(27:57):
got this much time of going downhill for this day,
I'm like, oh my god. And I tried to not
let it show, obviously because to be that person, but
going downhill was really hard for me. Going uphill was amazing.
I absolutely love going up. Man, it's a challenge for me.
I love a challenge. I love like when your heart's
beating through your chest and you, yeah, you just tell
(28:20):
yourself you've got to keep going.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
So that downhill probably to be fair for people listening,
I think would be based off the acl still.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
I think so, yeah, because it was.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
It's just obviously you were just going down and you're
catching yourself on your knee with every single step, and
then it was slippery, so you had to go a
little bit slow. It was, and you had to go
slower than I would have liked. And I like to
go a little bit quicker when I do things. And
so we're going really slow, making sure. And then usually
if you're walking downhill and you hurt a little bit,
like when we're doing heel sprints, and we'll turn and
(28:51):
face backwards and you walk backwards downhill just to give
a pressure off. You can't do that because you might
drip over something. You have to have your eyes on.
And then the fact that you're looking down for all
of this time and your neck hurt.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
And yeah, so then on the uphill we did we
do a little uphill race. We call it a self
paced event.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
We just race.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
We let people just go. And you took off. You
were feeling a bit fluy that day, and I said,
and like eight or so people that headed off up
the hill, and I said, don't race it just because
you're not feeling undertaking. You said, no, I'm racing, and
you did it in under twenty two minutes, overtook pretty
much everyone that had left before you by one, and
that was in the wet. So I'm interested to see, one,
how are you going to dry because you'll probably hit
(29:36):
some twenty minutes. But also, what did that feel like?
That is a hard hell?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
It was a hard heel.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Yeah, but you know, you're just telling yourself inside you
got to keep going, go to keep going, go to
keep going, to keep going. And I am very competitive,
as you know, so there's no way I was stopping
on that hill.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I feel that the boys are pretty impressed with you. Yeah,
you are one of their own, and they liked that,
and they love speaking to you in language I noticed,
and they really accepted that, and then they wanted to
see you do well.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
I think, yeah, well crazy, because I've an iceman, my porter.
He said to me, when we're walking up the hill,
he goes, Miller, you go and I'll come up soon.
And I said, how are you going to just chill?
And he said, yeah, I just got a few things
to do.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I'll come up.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
And I was like okay, So I was like off.
I'm like, I'm not waiting for anybody.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I'm going. So I kept going.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
I kept going, and I lost him for Aracon between
ten to fifteen minutes, really closer to the fifteen minute mark,
and then I hear these footsteps behind me and I
was like, oh my god, someone's going to come and
overtake me, and like my heart starts racing even more
than I already was. And then I turned around and
Iceman's just there.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
And I was like, where did you come from? And
then he just goes I caught up.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I love how I understated their Yeah you said your
Iceman that you or something?
Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah? I said Ice is that you? And he's like yeah,
And I was like, where did your co V is that?
I caught up? I was like, what, They're so crazy?
How they do that?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Hey, a friend of mine and I did a podcast
with years ago, Ricky. He did the track I can't
remember now but under forty hours, maybe under thirty. But
he had organized to have one of the porters, you know,
to do like an eight hour stint and so on.
And Iceman, this Iceman was a fair bit younger, but
still crazy fit, and he went with him and he
stayed with him the whole way. And the interesting thing
(31:19):
is that, and this is no disrespect to you, Ricky,
if you're listening, Ricky was very pumped and excited. He
got media over here about what he did, and yet
Iceman did it with no training. He sat right beside him,
easily could have overtaken him at any stage. And it
kind of reminds me of Tensing Norgay. He was the
sherpa who first climbed man. Ever, so the first human
to stand on top of Mount Everest was not Sir
(31:41):
Edmund Hillary. It was one of the sherpers and they
hadn't done it before either. But back in the original
sort of in the fifty sixties, seventies and eighties, even
maybe through to the nineties, you never heard his name.
He was always it was always Emilori, and well, it
was kind of like that, like, you know, Ricky's getting
all these accolades and he raised money, good money for veterans'
charities and all. But you think, well, Ivnant did it too,
(32:01):
and his initial plan was just to do eight hours
with you, and he's just, oh, this place is to
stay with you.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
So you would love to challenge myself and see how
fast I could do it. Even if we could do
it for a fundraiser or anything like that June.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
July next year, if we could fit it into your
fight schedule, we will try and do for you a
sub forty or some thirty.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Our absolutely love to do that. I asked his opinion.
I'm like, do you reckon I could do it? He's like, yeah,
I reckon he could do it.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
And it's not about a run either. It's about just
being able to hold a consistent pace, so knowing your
heart rates and just sitting on that. Who knows, I
just won't make a comeback for that.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Yeah, let's go.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Any advice that you would give to people that are
training for Kakoda man.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Don't skip the training, like don't just go for a
walk on flat land, or don't just ride your bike
or actually properly look up a training program and do it.
And you've got one. We have one. Yeah, so train legs,
walk downhill, get your cardio really really good, because you're
(33:04):
going to need your legs in your cardio.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
And your recovery. That gives you a recovery. Yeah, so
we're going to We've made a bit of a commitment.
We don't do a lot on our social media except
when we're on tracks, and so I've been writing a
social media plan for those listening. And one of the
things we're going to do, I'll go to two things,
talk a lot more about the history. Because you may
not treck with us. I wish you would, but you
might already be listening to this after your book with someone.
I'm also going to start to add in with Millie
(33:27):
some maybe weekly or something, just a training tip, one
little thing. Obviously we can't give you a whole program
on Instagram, but we have access to like a full
eight week program. You just go to Adventure Professionals dot com,
dot you and it pops up immediately for you. But
we'll just start to put little tips in how to
look after your knees. A lot of people they skip core,
they skip up a body because they think it's all legs. Weird.
(33:49):
Legs are important, but when you lose structure through your core,
your lower back, your tummy, and your shoulders, and you
start something that affects how you breathe.
Speaker 4 (33:56):
And you've got to carry a pack. You know, you
have a porter, but you're still carrying.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
A pack and it's still hard. And the other mistake
people make, in my opinion and experience this on the
second anti trip this year, is they get a personal
porter and then they still overload their own pack. And
so now they've got a porter's pack and they've got
a personal pack. Their personal pack's way too heavy. The
porter can't take any more gear, and you go. The
whole person getting a porter is not to bring more
stuff onto the track. It's to well, it helps employ
(34:22):
the locals, but to make it a little bit easier
for you.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
So I'm going to make coming over next year from
one hundredth and Michael and he's bringing his son and
he said, I'm going to get a porter, and he
had to justify it and he says, I'm not as
fit as I was when we did it last time.
And I'm like, bro, that was twenty two years ago.
None of us as fit as we were twenty two
years ago. You don't have to justify getting importer. My
experiences that people get, Oh, I feel bad if I
(34:47):
have to use a porter. No one cares, and you're
employing the locals. All that money goes to them. Anyway.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
They love it. They're here for it, very proud of
it their work. You know, you're employing somebody.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
They get to show you how proud of their culture,
how fit they are. They get to do a little
showcase on the hmself as well. And yeah, so don't
feel bad.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Was there anything that stood out for you in particular
from the boy's side or from the trekker's side on
the trip? What's a highlight for you of the trip?
It's always had Sorry, before we had a cracking group watch. Yeah,
so that was just that's luck. Sometimes we had a
really really good group. But yeah, what was a highlight
of something? One or two things that stood out.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
It's always going to be watching my home, you know,
my countrymen in their home. That's always going to be
a highlight for me. And then another highlight for me,
which even though even on trips where I've come and
picked up the porters at the end and I haven't walked,
it's always a highlight for me listening to other people
experience that as well.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So do you feel I feel like I know the
answer this, but do you feel a sense of pride
when you watch how the boys operate and you see
by the end how much people respect them?
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Yeah, one hundred percent. That's one of my favorite things.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
And we get to have that dinner and talk about
all of that.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
I love that dinner, you know, Like I said at
the start, you know one troops at home, where I've
gone to Milon Bay while you've walked the track, and
then I've come back and met you guys at the
end of it. And then we go to the hotel
and we have dinner and everyone stands up and they
say their peace, and I absolutely live for that bit
of the trip.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
I want to take you back to one more moment
to finish off. We're on Brigade Hill and because you're
you know, this is our company, so this company is
owned by us, and so you are looking after the
trekkers as much as having your own experience. And when
we line up, we get everyone in a semicircle up
on Brigade Hill and the boys standing behind. And the
reason I do that is because they're such good singers,
(36:39):
but they can get a bit shy if everyone's looking
at them, and so particularly in the daylight. So I
just say to people, don't turn around, just absorb their
national anthem and stuff. And you, I feel like you're
a little bit confused about where you should be. Should
I be with the clients the trekkers and you were
standing sort of there but one step back, and I
just went up and said, hey, you stand with the
boys because you wanted to sing that national anthem. Describe
(37:00):
that feeling to me singing the national anthem with the boys.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
It was so powerful and it was emotional, and I
took a video. I was just holding my phone and
filming while we were singing, and I obviously wasn't going
to put it in their faces like the filming, but yeah,
I just really wanted like a memory of that. But
I can't even watch that back because of me just crying.
(37:26):
So I was trying to sing, but then my voice
would shake and I'd start crying.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
And yeah, I do. I love our national anthem.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
It's amazing.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
Yeah, and yeah, it always takes me back to my childhood.
And yeah, because you sing your national anthem a lot
when you're in school and stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
So you've got a beautiful voice. And I put that
down to the boys too. They harmonioused really well because
they sing. They're a culture that sings. Yeah, and we
through church or whatever their reasons, but it was nice
to hear that female voice added to them. To be honest,
for those wondering, obviously, when you listen to the intros
and exit of this podcast, that's literally footage taken on
(38:03):
Brigadehill of our boys singing, and that was for a documentary,
so you get to hear it every time you listen
to this podcast, but there's still something extra special about
experiencing it in real time.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
So any final thoughts as we signed off on our
cocoada track podcast.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Everyone should do it. Everyone should do it.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
It's it was such a beautiful experience. I can't wait
to do it again. I'm so glad that I did
it finally.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah, thanks for listening to this episode of The Building
Better Humans podcast with your host Glenn Asa.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
For feedback.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
To stay up to date or go back and find
an old episode, head over to one eighty dot net
dot au. Yeah, the Building Better Humors Project pocas this
guy
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