November 2, 2025 • 24 mins
I sat down with my good friend Heather Rae El Moussa — entrepreneur, luxury real estate professional, and founder of Heather Rae Essentials — to talk about what it really takes to grow, set boundaries, and build a beauty brand that lasts. This conversation goes beyond the surface — we talked about evolving publicly, the work behind the brand, and the discipline behind building something real. If you’re serious about growth and ready to lead with intention, you’ll want to hear this one.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:00):
Welcome to business and the podcast for people making it
all happen. Running a successful business completely takes over your life,
but I'm a believer that there is still room for
some ands like health, wealth, beauty, and maybe even some fashion.
On this podcast, I'll share with you what's working for
scaling my nine figure business while keeping you up to
date on the latest trends, news and fun finds. This
(00:23):
is a place for business and let's dive in! Welcome
back to business and I am beyond excited to have
this particular guest. And I actually get to tell you
guys a story that she doesn't even know. So I'm
going to do a little bit of a story, and
then we're gonna get into some awesome questions here. Um,
but this particular individual I had watched on television for many,
many years, I had binge watched her. And you might
(00:44):
have also binge watched her because the season comes out
and you want to watch the whole thing. And when
I was binge watching her, I was just always struck
by how different she was from all of the other
people that were on the show. And I like the
other people for different reasons. But I remember thinking like,
if there was one person that I would want to
actually be friends with and meet in person, it would
be this individual. And so I guess this is probably
(01:05):
a little weird because you guys already know who this is,
and I'm talking about her like she's not here. Um,
but Heather Al-mousa was somebody who. I kid you not.
I made a list at the beginning of 2024. It
was January 6th. Baron and I were doing this activity together,
and I created this list of couples that I wanted
(01:26):
to be friends with. And there's a list of these
20 couples. And I found this list a handful of
months ago after we met. Um, and later on in 2025.
But you and Tarek were on that list of couples
that I wanted to meet and be friends with in 2025.
I kid you not. Manifested it. I really did. And
I didn't even know that I manifested it. So anyway,
(01:47):
I'm so excited to have you on this podcast. Talk
about business. And because we get to talk often about business,
and I would love to just know a little bit
more about your perspective on how you got started in
business and the inspiration for starting the business that you
have called HR?
S2 (02:05):
Oh gosh. Okay, well that was so sweet. I love that,
like I love hearing stories like that because then it's
like meant to be.
S1 (02:12):
Totally.
S2 (02:12):
Um, gosh, I'm still learning so much about business. As
you know, um, I've been on TV for many years.
I TV comes easy to me. Being on camera is
easy to me. Like, just it's natural for me, which
a lot of people can't say it's natural for them,
but for me, that's that's the easy thing. Business is
the hard thing for me. Um, I didn't grow up.
(02:37):
Knowing what I was going to do, I think, like,
I grew up kind of. I want to get out
of my little town. I want to do more, which
I did. So I've been on TV since 2000. I
want to say 18. But prior to that I did
some modeling, did some acting, um, you know, was on
Selling Sunset for seven seasons, then went to HGTV. Flipping
(02:58):
all mouzas. Now the flip off. Um, so it's been
like commercials and just brand deals. Like, I've always gotten
my makeup done for years and years and years, and
there's been glam that I love. There's been glam I hate.
I was like, how can I find this color? I
don't like the way this looks. So starting HRT beauty
came from more of like a passion at the time.
(03:18):
I couldn't find this perfect pink that I wanted. Like,
if I can't find it, I'm going to create it.
So backwards to how it got started. You know pretty
much everything. But there's a lot of things that I've
learned along the way. And you can like push me
on those because, you know, a lot of the mistakes
that I've made.
S1 (03:37):
Heather's amazing. Heather. Like, there's nobody who is more tenacious.
We work together. We're we're in business together. We're business
partners in HR beauty. And so Heather and I, as
I mentioned, we get to talk about business and a
lot not just for the podcast, but it's one thing
that I appreciate about you or you just you just
figure it out. And you're very tenacious in what you want.
(03:59):
And you and I have had some fun. What feels
like negotiations. And I think you are an incredible salesperson
because you're sold. And that comes through. And to me,
that came through in the television show, like you just
you're sold on who you are, on the life that
you want on your, your son and your husband and
just what you're creating. And so it really comes through
(04:21):
very authentically on television. There's a lot of lack of authenticity,
but how that translates over into business is really interesting
for me to watch, because you really are freaking sold
on your position and your your point of view, which
I think is really important as a founder of a business.
S2 (04:37):
I think for me, I don't want to do something
unless I truly love it. And that's the same with
how I've been with brand deals. You know, I've gotten
big financial brand deals brought to me, but if they
didn't align with me, it's hard for me to put
my name on something that I don't truly believe him
because if I don't truly believe in it, how can
I sell that to other people? And if if I'm
(05:00):
starting my own company, that's even more important to me.
So in the very beginning I was told, oh, just
white label something. And for people that don't know what
white label labeling is, which most people do, it's just,
you know, putting your name on a product that's not
yours and, you know, selling it as your product. And
at first I'm like, it just didn't sit right with me. Like,
(05:21):
you know, I really listen to my gut like, that
didn't sit right with me. If I'm going to do it,
I'm going to do this. And I know it's going
to be hard work, but I know I can do this,
and I want it to be. I want to be
passionate about what I put out there. And if I
don't love it, how are other people going to love it?
So true. So right away I was like, no, I'm
not doing that. So then it was like to the
drawing board, okay, the names, colors, components. It was like,
(05:41):
you know, step by step by step. I remember I
think I still have the paper where it was like
all these different colors and, and names and even just
figuring out a name was hard. And now we've switched
the name. So it's just like evolving. And as I've
learned so much and met you, I've learned even more
about business, which now we're evolving in a different way
(06:02):
that I think I was stuck to for a while. Like,
it has to be this. This is what it's going
to be, and this is my baby, and I've grown
it from the from the beginning. And it took years
to do this. And then you changed my mindset.
S1 (06:15):
I think what's fascinating about our kind of journey over
the last nine ish months is you have reminded me
what it's like to start a business, which is if
you make the decision like you have to be so
bought in on your direction and the point of view
because it's nerve wracking. It's scary. You're putting yourself out there.
(06:38):
What if you fail? And so the process for a
business owner of saying like, okay, I am going to
do this. Like it's kind of the burn the ships moment,
you're going to launch a business and you get yourself
sold on it. And part of what makes people so
successful in business is they get sold on their ideas
and they can see things that other people don't see.
But then as you launch that thing and you have
(07:00):
to iterate, it's challenging to go from like, we're going,
we're going, we're going despite what anybody thinks, like, this
is what I'm going to do to now. I need
market feedback and I need to listen to the customer.
And you're great at listening to the customer like you're
obsessed with the customer, but being able to kind of
let go of your baby or what you thought your
baby was going to be, to allow it to be
(07:21):
something else and kind of go in the direction that
it needs to go, really is like a true entrepreneurial
part of the journey.
S2 (07:30):
Which I've had to learn. And it did take some months,
as you know, like. But I'm proud of where I'm
at now and I'm excited for what's to come because
like you said, the customer and the feedback is so
important to me and making them happy. And I read
all the reviews and I listen to everyone out there,
(07:50):
and I'm so grateful that I have a platform already
to start a business from. Um, starting a business is very,
very challenging, as you know. And you know, I was
just like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to
do it. And and whatever happens, I know there'll be
ups and downs, but it's really exciting to have something
that's mine, where usually I'm just representing other brands. This
(08:13):
is mine and I have control. And, you know, being
on TV, you don't have a lot of control. And
so I'm a control person, like, I think, you know,
I'm a pretty type A person.
S1 (08:23):
Just a.
S2 (08:23):
Little. I'm like, I like this like this a certain way.
And I've had to like kind of, okay, sit back
a little bit and really listen to the customer and
that feedback and people are loving it, which is so
exciting to just even like, I didn't know if we
were going to sell one. We've sold so many and
people love it and the reviews are so amazing and
it makes me like so happy I want to cry.
S1 (08:45):
Well, the reviews really are unbelievable. I remember the very
first time a couple of months ago, where I looked
at the reviews from the lip gloss, and there's hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of five star reviews because people
just love it. Walk. I know this story, but walk
people through how intentional you were about the flavor and
(09:07):
just kind of your thought process going back to when
you were originally formulating the product, and then also a
little bit on the perfect pink because you said you
wanted the perfect pink. So for those people who are
not able to see your beautiful lips right now and
maybe listen to the podcast, what is like the definition
for you of a perfect pink?
S2 (09:24):
Okay, so right now I'm wearing angel kisses. Um, angel
kisses was the first one that we launched with, and
we sold out of Angel kisses in 48 hours, which
that was amazing to see. Um, so going back, I
wanted the products to be. I was like a non-toxic girl.
I was in, like, a non-toxic kind of era of
my life, like, as chemical free as possible. So that's
(09:46):
kind of what my mindset was going into it. Kind
of quickly I learned that there's different pigments and colors,
like there's a lot that I had to learn in
this process of creating a beauty brand and the chemicals
and the ingredients and what works together and the colors,
and I wanted it like non-toxic. This is it. To
get the perfect pink that I wanted. I couldn't do
(10:09):
completely non-toxic. So that was like my first kind of
like bummer. But it took like probably two years to
kind of realize that because I was like, no, try
this one, try this, try this. Um, same with going
back to the flavor. Originally the the scent and the
flavor was synthetic. And I was like, no, it needs
to be non-toxic. It needs to be natural. So and
I wanted this vanilla musky like vanilla scent. And I
(10:31):
wanted all the products to smell the same for me.
I put on a gloss and if it doesn't have
a scent, I feel like it tastes like chemicals. And
I'm like, why wouldn't they have put a scent in it?
So that was my mindset going into that. So it
took about a year of working with a a flavor
house to get that vanilla musky flavor that I wanted.
(10:53):
And we found it. So that was challenging. So before
even like putting out a product, it was almost five years,
which is I think, you know, people can understand work
on something for five years, how good it must be,
because I didn't want to put it out there unless
it was perfect.
S1 (11:09):
If you could go back in time, would you still
put the five years into it? Now I'm just like,
curious with like, our own stuff. Because you've as a
founder and as business owners, sometimes it's easy to put
like the perfect product out there or wait to put
the perfect product out there. The product is spectacular. And
of course there are all of the reviews and people
(11:30):
love it. But I'm curious if you were to now
knowing what you know, would you have shortened that process
to learn more, faster, or are you still like, I'm
really appreciative of that whole process.
S2 (11:40):
I don't know if I could have to be honest,
because of such a long journey and changing so many
things along the way, like I had an original partner
in the beginning that then they stepped out because he
had had a company that and he had four kids.
He was kind of like had made all of his money,
wanted to partner with me. But then he was like,
I see this being a very long term commitment, and
(12:01):
I'm not ready to step into something like this again.
So he stepped down. So that was kind of like, okay,
back to the drawing board. Um, and, you know, I'm
kind of the face I'm marketing when it comes to
logistics of business. I didn't have that knowledge, nor the
time I was filming two TV shows at the time, um,
had gotten married. I have two step kids. I then
(12:23):
got pregnant, um, left selling sunset had the baby so postpartum.
So there was like a lot going on in my life,
and I don't know if I could have shortened that.
And then when it went to launching originally, even before
I met you, I was like, okay, I do have
this platform. I know that people will buy it, but
then what's next? How do I market it then to bigger?
(12:46):
Who's going to do the marketing? And I think that
was the most challenging thing at the time. Like I
didn't have anyone to run the company and I'm like, okay,
well I'm the face I can sell, but there has
to be more. You got to scale and there has
to be more to it. So then I put everything
on pause, and then I got introduced to you at
some point down the line.
S1 (13:08):
Yeah. It was interesting how we met, because I remember
walking into my kitchen. It was last August. So August
of 2025. No, 2024, the year that I put that
I was going to become friends with you and just
now told you that I'm a weird, creepy stalker like that.
S2 (13:26):
I love.
S1 (13:27):
It. Um, you.
S2 (13:27):
Can't believe how many times like, people are in my
life for, like, a long time, and then they're like, yeah.
So I actually wrote down that I wanted to meet,
and I'm like, you've been in my life for years.
Why didn't you tell me? And I love it. I
think it's great.
S1 (13:39):
It's a little awkward. It's just a little awkward because
you don't want to fangirl all over somebody like you,
because that also is not interesting or exciting.
S2 (13:47):
But I'm fangirling over you.
S1 (13:48):
Well, it took a little while. I don't think you
would be fangirling over me if if if I would
have initially fangirl. You know, it's like it's a little
bit like dating.
S2 (13:57):
It's true. You get to know each other, like, over time.
S1 (14:00):
Exactly. Um, but it was about a year ago where
Brandon was on the phone in our kitchen and he
was talking to somebody, and normally I know who he's
talking to. And so he's on the phone and he's, like,
trying to get my attention. And I was like, what?
And he's like. And he, like, turns the phone and
it's just somebody's phone number. It doesn't even say their name.
S3 (14:18):
And I'm like, who is it?
S1 (14:20):
And he's like, no. Like he had to like, shush
me so he could pay attention. And then he finally
put it on speakerphone and I'm listening and I'm listening
and I'm like, I don't know who this is, but
it sounds really exciting. And it turns out it was Tariq.
And so Tariq, I think, had read Brandon's book and
we had been introduced through like around about Cardone, Elena
(14:40):
does Exp and Tarek is involved with Exp. And somehow
that conversation landed in us visiting you guys early September
of last year.
S2 (14:50):
It was September. October, right?
S3 (14:51):
Yeah, yeah, early.
S1 (14:52):
In that time frame. And it was the boys who
were really looking at doing something together and were sitting
in this conference room, and you guys were explaining what
you guys have been up to. We had explained what
we've been up to. And then I turn around and
I see all of these lip glosses and like, I'm
a I'm a lip gloss girl, like, I love it's
like my secret obsession is like makeup, all the things
(15:15):
makeup and beauty. And we had gotten to the end
where you guys were telling us what you'd been up to,
but there was no mention of these products. And I remember, like,
going and picking one of them up and being like.
S3 (15:24):
So what is this?
S1 (15:26):
And all of a sudden you.
S3 (15:27):
Lit up like.
S1 (15:28):
You were excited about the other things that you'd been
talking about. And you have so many projects that are
super cool that you work on. But this was like
a different thing. And I could tell at the time,
I didn't know that you had put 4 or 5
years into it, but it was something that you were
really passionate about, and you were talking about the flavor
and the colors and you, like, try it. And all
my best friends, like, they just want me to actually
come out with this, but I haven't watched it yet.
And so that's kind of how you and I got connected,
(15:51):
because I remember just sitting there thinking for a second,
as women, it's easy to take a back seat in
conversations like that. And I even watched myself do it
where it felt like Brandon was the one that was
like doing the thing and like, talking. And I think
kind of on your side. Tark was doing the same.
And yet meanwhile, like here, you and I as women
(16:14):
and as business owners, I'm like, well, wait a second,
what about this thing over here? And now this is
actually the work that we're doing together. Yeah. And it
has been fun. It has been challenging. And I don't
want people to see these, like two blond chicks on
a podcast looking like, oh, it's just so easy and
perfect to launch a business because it's freaking hard. Um,
and I think it would be helpful, potentially for the
(16:36):
audience to hear maybe a little bit more about a
handful of the challenges that you've come in contact with
in building this and really launching this product that was
your baby into the marketplace over the last nine months.
S2 (16:49):
I think one of the biggest things for me, and
you know, how busy I am and what I have
going on and like, I think being on TV, sometimes
I tend to be like, okay, this is what I
want to do. And now you guys take over where
I'm involved along the way, like smelling everything, trying everything, packaging,
you know, colors. Like I was involved with everything, but
(17:11):
removed from some of the business things that I should
have known what was going on, or maybe had my
lawyer look and not theirs, you know, in their recommendations.
So my previous partner that we originally partnered with, who
stepped out, introduced me to a different partner. And at
first she wasn't a partner. She was kind of like
the middle person that was involved with packaging components manufacturing.
(17:35):
She had done that with other businesses and I'm like, okay,
she's knowledgeable. So then she stepped in and was like, well,
I would love to partner and I can help, you know,
do the back end stuff. And Tarc and I were like, okay, great.
Because like I said earlier, I'm filming multiple TV shows, pregnant,
two other children, a marriage brand, deals like it's non-stop,
flying places, like being on TV. I'm sucked out of
(17:58):
like the world for hours and hours because you're on camera,
you're filming, you're focused, you're on your phone, you're not
running a business. And so she stepped in. It was
a really good partnership throughout the last few years. Um,
from what I, you know, thought, um, and we did
(18:18):
create beautiful, amazing products, as you know. Um, but there
was a lot of things that were happening behind the
scenes that I was not aware of, certain contracts that
were not in our favor for the company. Um, the
components were. I mean, they're beautiful components, but they are custom.
(18:40):
Most brands don't start with custom packaging until you've really,
you know, scaled your company and then you can change
things and make things more expensive. So that kind of
already put us in a box of, you know, price point.
Like they were very pricey. Um, we had put different
marketing people in front of them. No, no, no. Said
(19:00):
no to all of them. So that's why when it
came time to launching, we were like, well then what's
the plan? There was no plan. There was nothing like
no one had the plan. And I'm like, I'm not
going to do this and fail. And eventually it came
to a point, well, then I met you, but Tarek
and I were like, should I just do it? And like,
we have these components already ready. Oh, yeah. And we
had the components. We had everything ordered. They were in
(19:22):
a warehouse ready to go. And I'm like, they're sitting here.
They're ready to go. We already placed the order. We've
already spent all this money. We put in our own capital,
like we didn't take outside funding, like this was all
of our own money And, um, so then at that
point it was like, okay, well, this isn't working out.
(19:42):
This isn't this isn't working out. It's not happening. Like
we need to shift and pivot. And I think Tarek
was like, oh, Brandon and Natalie. And that's when he
mentioned you guys to me. I didn't know who you were.
I mean, I had I knew who you were through Tarek.
I'm talking about Brandon and you, but I didn't personally
know you. And so he's like, I think he brought
up different companies. And, you know, you know how we're
(20:05):
so busy, it's hard to manage a lot. We've had
issues with, like, hiring CEOs and hiring in-house people. And
I think we were like, let's meet them. They've scaled.
They know what they're doing. Let's see what they can do.
And if they want to partner with us in something.
And then that's how we met you. Um. There's probably
so many more that I'm missing that I will probably
(20:25):
later on. Like, once I can tell everything, we'll tell everything. Um,
but I've learned a lot with always know what's going
on in your company inside and out. Because even though
I knew what was going on with the products, the
back end financial stuff and contract stuff, I didn't know, um,
(20:46):
things that I didn't even know that I needed to know.
And now I'm like, oh my gosh, why didn't I
even think to ask about that? But I trusted the
person I was partnered with. So I'm like, they know
what they're doing. Why would I even have to ask that?
So I think just things like that, like I, I'm
learning as I go still, and there's so much more
for me to learn. And I think that's a beautiful
thing to keep learning and I'm excited for what's to come.
(21:07):
I'm excited to launch more with you and not have
baggage from the past.
S1 (21:12):
Well, less baggage, more fun lip glosses really like more,
more lip glosses. We're not getting into the bag game. However,
I did just realize and want to talk to you about.
There's somebody who's launching makeup and they give as a
freebie a bag. So maybe that's the only type of
baggage that we're willing to keep in the the joint venture.
S2 (21:30):
Yes.
S1 (21:31):
With that, I know we are at the last handful
of minutes here. Anything that you would want to share
with a business owner who was struggling to hire great people,
or know if the people that they have around them,
that they can trust and lean into any lessons that
you could share about things that you've learned on that front?
S2 (21:49):
Yeah, I think a big change for me was coming
to your 360 event. It was really eye opening to
me because I, I'd never really been to a business
event like that and a business owner event, and seeing
other business owners in the room that are way more
successful than me in business. And they're having challenges, and
(22:09):
everyone has challenges at different points in their, their business.
And you could be making 1 million or 30 million,
40 million, and you're going to have different challenges along
the way and learning from people that know more than you.
I think that was important for me is like sitting
back and listening to all these people that know so
much in business, and I'm just like a sponge, Like
taking it all in and, um. And still continuing, you know,
(22:33):
reading books and podcasts and coming to events. And I
think it's so inspiring. So that was a huge help
for me. So I thank you guys for that.
S4 (22:42):
I love that.
S1 (22:42):
Well, where can people buy the perfect pink lip gloss?
S2 (22:47):
Yes. Well it's sold out right now. But we're getting
we're working. Oh, that's another thing I'm working on getting
things in faster. I think that's been a learning game
for us too. And, um, people are like, I want
perfect pink. I'm like, I know, I'm so sorry. I'm like,
we're working on it. It's here soon, you guys, I promise.
S1 (23:03):
Um, and that one was actually a funny one, because
maybe before we wrap up that story on my perspective
was that that was not going to sell. I was like,
we don't even need to put very much marketing budget
behind this launch because, like, it's just a really particular
bright colored pink. But what ended up happening with perfect pink.
S4 (23:25):
People loved it, sold out, loved it.
S2 (23:27):
People are begging for it back. And we both thought, oh,
it's just going to be like, maybe not as popular.
It's a pretty color, but it might not look good
on everyone and people loved it. It was so perfect
and we launched it in summer and it was such
a beautiful summer color. Um, but yeah, people can shop
at beautycon and the Instagram is Heather Rae Essentials.
S1 (23:48):
Love it. Well, thank you for being on the podcast.
S4 (23:50):
Thank you.
S1 (23:50):
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(24:11):
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S4 (24:15):
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Welcome to business and the podcast for people making it
all happen. Running a successful business completely takes over your life,
but I'm a believer that there is still room for
some ands like health, wealth, beauty, and maybe even some fashion.
On this podcast, I'll share with you what's working for
scaling my nine figure business while keeping you up to
date on the latest trends, news and fun finds. This
(00:23):
is a place for business and let's dive in! Welcome
back to business and I am beyond excited to have
this particular guest. And I actually get to tell you
guys a story that she doesn't even know. So I'm
going to do a little bit of a story, and
then we're gonna get into some awesome questions here. Um,
but this particular individual I had watched on television for many,
many years, I had binge watched her. And you might
(00:44):
have also binge watched her because the season comes out
and you want to watch the whole thing. And when
I was binge watching her, I was just always struck
by how different she was from all of the other
people that were on the show. And I like the
other people for different reasons. But I remember thinking like,
if there was one person that I would want to
actually be friends with and meet in person, it would
be this individual. And so I guess this is probably
(01:05):
a little weird because you guys already know who this is,
and I'm talking about her like she's not here. Um,
but Heather Al-mousa was somebody who. I kid you not.
I made a list at the beginning of 2024. It
was January 6th. Baron and I were doing this activity together,
and I created this list of couples that I wanted
(01:26):
to be friends with. And there's a list of these
20 couples. And I found this list a handful of
months ago after we met. Um, and later on in 2025.
But you and Tarek were on that list of couples
that I wanted to meet and be friends with in 2025.
I kid you not. Manifested it. I really did. And
I didn't even know that I manifested it. So anyway,
(01:47):
I'm so excited to have you on this podcast. Talk
about business. And because we get to talk often about business,
and I would love to just know a little bit
more about your perspective on how you got started in
business and the inspiration for starting the business that you
have called HR?
S2 (02:05):
Oh gosh. Okay, well that was so sweet. I love that,
like I love hearing stories like that because then it's
like meant to be.
S1 (02:12):
Totally.
S2 (02:12):
Um, gosh, I'm still learning so much about business. As
you know, um, I've been on TV for many years.
I TV comes easy to me. Being on camera is
easy to me. Like, just it's natural for me, which
a lot of people can't say it's natural for them,
but for me, that's that's the easy thing. Business is
the hard thing for me. Um, I didn't grow up.
(02:37):
Knowing what I was going to do, I think, like,
I grew up kind of. I want to get out
of my little town. I want to do more, which
I did. So I've been on TV since 2000. I
want to say 18. But prior to that I did
some modeling, did some acting, um, you know, was on
Selling Sunset for seven seasons, then went to HGTV. Flipping
(02:58):
all mouzas. Now the flip off. Um, so it's been
like commercials and just brand deals. Like, I've always gotten
my makeup done for years and years and years, and
there's been glam that I love. There's been glam I hate.
I was like, how can I find this color? I
don't like the way this looks. So starting HRT beauty
came from more of like a passion at the time.
(03:18):
I couldn't find this perfect pink that I wanted. Like,
if I can't find it, I'm going to create it.
So backwards to how it got started. You know pretty
much everything. But there's a lot of things that I've
learned along the way. And you can like push me
on those because, you know, a lot of the mistakes
that I've made.
S1 (03:37):
Heather's amazing. Heather. Like, there's nobody who is more tenacious.
We work together. We're we're in business together. We're business
partners in HR beauty. And so Heather and I, as
I mentioned, we get to talk about business and a
lot not just for the podcast, but it's one thing
that I appreciate about you or you just you just
figure it out. And you're very tenacious in what you want.
(03:59):
And you and I have had some fun. What feels
like negotiations. And I think you are an incredible salesperson
because you're sold. And that comes through. And to me,
that came through in the television show, like you just
you're sold on who you are, on the life that
you want on your, your son and your husband and
just what you're creating. And so it really comes through
(04:21):
very authentically on television. There's a lot of lack of authenticity,
but how that translates over into business is really interesting
for me to watch, because you really are freaking sold
on your position and your your point of view, which
I think is really important as a founder of a business.
S2 (04:37):
I think for me, I don't want to do something
unless I truly love it. And that's the same with
how I've been with brand deals. You know, I've gotten
big financial brand deals brought to me, but if they
didn't align with me, it's hard for me to put
my name on something that I don't truly believe him
because if I don't truly believe in it, how can
I sell that to other people? And if if I'm
(05:00):
starting my own company, that's even more important to me.
So in the very beginning I was told, oh, just
white label something. And for people that don't know what
white label labeling is, which most people do, it's just,
you know, putting your name on a product that's not
yours and, you know, selling it as your product. And
at first I'm like, it just didn't sit right with me. Like,
(05:21):
you know, I really listen to my gut like, that
didn't sit right with me. If I'm going to do it,
I'm going to do this. And I know it's going
to be hard work, but I know I can do this,
and I want it to be. I want to be
passionate about what I put out there. And if I
don't love it, how are other people going to love it?
So true. So right away I was like, no, I'm
not doing that. So then it was like to the
drawing board, okay, the names, colors, components. It was like,
(05:41):
you know, step by step by step. I remember I
think I still have the paper where it was like
all these different colors and, and names and even just
figuring out a name was hard. And now we've switched
the name. So it's just like evolving. And as I've
learned so much and met you, I've learned even more
about business, which now we're evolving in a different way
(06:02):
that I think I was stuck to for a while. Like,
it has to be this. This is what it's going
to be, and this is my baby, and I've grown
it from the from the beginning. And it took years
to do this. And then you changed my mindset.
S1 (06:15):
I think what's fascinating about our kind of journey over
the last nine ish months is you have reminded me
what it's like to start a business, which is if
you make the decision like you have to be so
bought in on your direction and the point of view
because it's nerve wracking. It's scary. You're putting yourself out there.
(06:38):
What if you fail? And so the process for a
business owner of saying like, okay, I am going to
do this. Like it's kind of the burn the ships moment,
you're going to launch a business and you get yourself
sold on it. And part of what makes people so
successful in business is they get sold on their ideas
and they can see things that other people don't see.
But then as you launch that thing and you have
(07:00):
to iterate, it's challenging to go from like, we're going,
we're going, we're going despite what anybody thinks, like, this
is what I'm going to do to now. I need
market feedback and I need to listen to the customer.
And you're great at listening to the customer like you're
obsessed with the customer, but being able to kind of
let go of your baby or what you thought your
baby was going to be, to allow it to be
(07:21):
something else and kind of go in the direction that
it needs to go, really is like a true entrepreneurial
part of the journey.
S2 (07:30):
Which I've had to learn. And it did take some months,
as you know, like. But I'm proud of where I'm
at now and I'm excited for what's to come because
like you said, the customer and the feedback is so
important to me and making them happy. And I read
all the reviews and I listen to everyone out there,
(07:50):
and I'm so grateful that I have a platform already
to start a business from. Um, starting a business is very,
very challenging, as you know. And you know, I was
just like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to
do it. And and whatever happens, I know there'll be
ups and downs, but it's really exciting to have something
that's mine, where usually I'm just representing other brands. This
(08:13):
is mine and I have control. And, you know, being
on TV, you don't have a lot of control. And
so I'm a control person, like, I think, you know,
I'm a pretty type A person.
S1 (08:23):
Just a.
S2 (08:23):
Little. I'm like, I like this like this a certain way.
And I've had to like kind of, okay, sit back
a little bit and really listen to the customer and
that feedback and people are loving it, which is so
exciting to just even like, I didn't know if we
were going to sell one. We've sold so many and
people love it and the reviews are so amazing and
it makes me like so happy I want to cry.
S1 (08:45):
Well, the reviews really are unbelievable. I remember the very
first time a couple of months ago, where I looked
at the reviews from the lip gloss, and there's hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of five star reviews because people
just love it. Walk. I know this story, but walk
people through how intentional you were about the flavor and
(09:07):
just kind of your thought process going back to when
you were originally formulating the product, and then also a
little bit on the perfect pink because you said you
wanted the perfect pink. So for those people who are
not able to see your beautiful lips right now and
maybe listen to the podcast, what is like the definition
for you of a perfect pink?
S2 (09:24):
Okay, so right now I'm wearing angel kisses. Um, angel
kisses was the first one that we launched with, and
we sold out of Angel kisses in 48 hours, which
that was amazing to see. Um, so going back, I
wanted the products to be. I was like a non-toxic girl.
I was in, like, a non-toxic kind of era of
my life, like, as chemical free as possible. So that's
(09:46):
kind of what my mindset was going into it. Kind
of quickly I learned that there's different pigments and colors,
like there's a lot that I had to learn in
this process of creating a beauty brand and the chemicals
and the ingredients and what works together and the colors,
and I wanted it like non-toxic. This is it. To
get the perfect pink that I wanted. I couldn't do
(10:09):
completely non-toxic. So that was like my first kind of
like bummer. But it took like probably two years to
kind of realize that because I was like, no, try
this one, try this, try this. Um, same with going
back to the flavor. Originally the the scent and the
flavor was synthetic. And I was like, no, it needs
to be non-toxic. It needs to be natural. So and
I wanted this vanilla musky like vanilla scent. And I
(10:31):
wanted all the products to smell the same for me.
I put on a gloss and if it doesn't have
a scent, I feel like it tastes like chemicals. And
I'm like, why wouldn't they have put a scent in it?
So that was my mindset going into that. So it
took about a year of working with a a flavor
house to get that vanilla musky flavor that I wanted.
(10:53):
And we found it. So that was challenging. So before
even like putting out a product, it was almost five years,
which is I think, you know, people can understand work
on something for five years, how good it must be,
because I didn't want to put it out there unless
it was perfect.
S1 (11:09):
If you could go back in time, would you still
put the five years into it? Now I'm just like,
curious with like, our own stuff. Because you've as a
founder and as business owners, sometimes it's easy to put
like the perfect product out there or wait to put
the perfect product out there. The product is spectacular. And
of course there are all of the reviews and people
(11:30):
love it. But I'm curious if you were to now
knowing what you know, would you have shortened that process
to learn more, faster, or are you still like, I'm
really appreciative of that whole process.
S2 (11:40):
I don't know if I could have to be honest,
because of such a long journey and changing so many
things along the way, like I had an original partner
in the beginning that then they stepped out because he
had had a company that and he had four kids.
He was kind of like had made all of his money,
wanted to partner with me. But then he was like,
I see this being a very long term commitment, and
(12:01):
I'm not ready to step into something like this again.
So he stepped down. So that was kind of like, okay,
back to the drawing board. Um, and, you know, I'm
kind of the face I'm marketing when it comes to
logistics of business. I didn't have that knowledge, nor the
time I was filming two TV shows at the time, um,
had gotten married. I have two step kids. I then
(12:23):
got pregnant, um, left selling sunset had the baby so postpartum.
So there was like a lot going on in my life,
and I don't know if I could have shortened that.
And then when it went to launching originally, even before
I met you, I was like, okay, I do have
this platform. I know that people will buy it, but
then what's next? How do I market it then to bigger?
(12:46):
Who's going to do the marketing? And I think that
was the most challenging thing at the time. Like I
didn't have anyone to run the company and I'm like, okay,
well I'm the face I can sell, but there has
to be more. You got to scale and there has
to be more to it. So then I put everything
on pause, and then I got introduced to you at
some point down the line.
S1 (13:08):
Yeah. It was interesting how we met, because I remember
walking into my kitchen. It was last August. So August
of 2025. No, 2024, the year that I put that
I was going to become friends with you and just
now told you that I'm a weird, creepy stalker like that.
S2 (13:26):
I love.
S1 (13:27):
It. Um, you.
S2 (13:27):
Can't believe how many times like, people are in my
life for, like, a long time, and then they're like, yeah.
So I actually wrote down that I wanted to meet,
and I'm like, you've been in my life for years.
Why didn't you tell me? And I love it. I
think it's great.
S1 (13:39):
It's a little awkward. It's just a little awkward because
you don't want to fangirl all over somebody like you,
because that also is not interesting or exciting.
S2 (13:47):
But I'm fangirling over you.
S1 (13:48):
Well, it took a little while. I don't think you
would be fangirling over me if if if I would
have initially fangirl. You know, it's like it's a little
bit like dating.
S2 (13:57):
It's true. You get to know each other, like, over time.
S1 (14:00):
Exactly. Um, but it was about a year ago where
Brandon was on the phone in our kitchen and he
was talking to somebody, and normally I know who he's
talking to. And so he's on the phone and he's, like,
trying to get my attention. And I was like, what?
And he's like. And he, like, turns the phone and
it's just somebody's phone number. It doesn't even say their name.
S3 (14:18):
And I'm like, who is it?
S1 (14:20):
And he's like, no. Like he had to like, shush
me so he could pay attention. And then he finally
put it on speakerphone and I'm listening and I'm listening
and I'm like, I don't know who this is, but
it sounds really exciting. And it turns out it was Tariq.
And so Tariq, I think, had read Brandon's book and
we had been introduced through like around about Cardone, Elena
(14:40):
does Exp and Tarek is involved with Exp. And somehow
that conversation landed in us visiting you guys early September
of last year.
S2 (14:50):
It was September. October, right?
S3 (14:51):
Yeah, yeah, early.
S1 (14:52):
In that time frame. And it was the boys who
were really looking at doing something together and were sitting
in this conference room, and you guys were explaining what
you guys have been up to. We had explained what
we've been up to. And then I turn around and
I see all of these lip glosses and like, I'm
a I'm a lip gloss girl, like, I love it's
like my secret obsession is like makeup, all the things
(15:15):
makeup and beauty. And we had gotten to the end
where you guys were telling us what you'd been up to,
but there was no mention of these products. And I remember, like,
going and picking one of them up and being like.
S3 (15:24):
So what is this?
S1 (15:26):
And all of a sudden you.
S3 (15:27):
Lit up like.
S1 (15:28):
You were excited about the other things that you'd been
talking about. And you have so many projects that are
super cool that you work on. But this was like
a different thing. And I could tell at the time,
I didn't know that you had put 4 or 5
years into it, but it was something that you were
really passionate about, and you were talking about the flavor
and the colors and you, like, try it. And all
my best friends, like, they just want me to actually
come out with this, but I haven't watched it yet.
And so that's kind of how you and I got connected,
(15:51):
because I remember just sitting there thinking for a second,
as women, it's easy to take a back seat in
conversations like that. And I even watched myself do it
where it felt like Brandon was the one that was
like doing the thing and like, talking. And I think
kind of on your side. Tark was doing the same.
And yet meanwhile, like here, you and I as women
(16:14):
and as business owners, I'm like, well, wait a second,
what about this thing over here? And now this is
actually the work that we're doing together. Yeah. And it
has been fun. It has been challenging. And I don't
want people to see these, like two blond chicks on
a podcast looking like, oh, it's just so easy and
perfect to launch a business because it's freaking hard. Um,
and I think it would be helpful, potentially for the
(16:36):
audience to hear maybe a little bit more about a
handful of the challenges that you've come in contact with
in building this and really launching this product that was
your baby into the marketplace over the last nine months.
S2 (16:49):
I think one of the biggest things for me, and
you know, how busy I am and what I have
going on and like, I think being on TV, sometimes
I tend to be like, okay, this is what I
want to do. And now you guys take over where
I'm involved along the way, like smelling everything, trying everything, packaging,
you know, colors. Like I was involved with everything, but
(17:11):
removed from some of the business things that I should
have known what was going on, or maybe had my
lawyer look and not theirs, you know, in their recommendations.
So my previous partner that we originally partnered with, who
stepped out, introduced me to a different partner. And at
first she wasn't a partner. She was kind of like
the middle person that was involved with packaging components manufacturing.
(17:35):
She had done that with other businesses and I'm like, okay,
she's knowledgeable. So then she stepped in and was like, well,
I would love to partner and I can help, you know,
do the back end stuff. And Tarc and I were like, okay, great.
Because like I said earlier, I'm filming multiple TV shows, pregnant,
two other children, a marriage brand, deals like it's non-stop,
flying places, like being on TV. I'm sucked out of
(17:58):
like the world for hours and hours because you're on camera,
you're filming, you're focused, you're on your phone, you're not
running a business. And so she stepped in. It was
a really good partnership throughout the last few years. Um,
from what I, you know, thought, um, and we did
(18:18):
create beautiful, amazing products, as you know. Um, but there
was a lot of things that were happening behind the
scenes that I was not aware of, certain contracts that
were not in our favor for the company. Um, the
components were. I mean, they're beautiful components, but they are custom.
(18:40):
Most brands don't start with custom packaging until you've really,
you know, scaled your company and then you can change
things and make things more expensive. So that kind of
already put us in a box of, you know, price point.
Like they were very pricey. Um, we had put different
marketing people in front of them. No, no, no. Said
(19:00):
no to all of them. So that's why when it
came time to launching, we were like, well then what's
the plan? There was no plan. There was nothing like
no one had the plan. And I'm like, I'm not
going to do this and fail. And eventually it came
to a point, well, then I met you, but Tarek
and I were like, should I just do it? And like,
we have these components already ready. Oh, yeah. And we
had the components. We had everything ordered. They were in
(19:22):
a warehouse ready to go. And I'm like, they're sitting here.
They're ready to go. We already placed the order. We've
already spent all this money. We put in our own capital,
like we didn't take outside funding, like this was all
of our own money And, um, so then at that
point it was like, okay, well, this isn't working out.
(19:42):
This isn't this isn't working out. It's not happening. Like
we need to shift and pivot. And I think Tarek
was like, oh, Brandon and Natalie. And that's when he
mentioned you guys to me. I didn't know who you were.
I mean, I had I knew who you were through Tarek.
I'm talking about Brandon and you, but I didn't personally
know you. And so he's like, I think he brought
up different companies. And, you know, you know how we're
(20:05):
so busy, it's hard to manage a lot. We've had
issues with, like, hiring CEOs and hiring in-house people. And
I think we were like, let's meet them. They've scaled.
They know what they're doing. Let's see what they can do.
And if they want to partner with us in something.
And then that's how we met you. Um. There's probably
so many more that I'm missing that I will probably
(20:25):
later on. Like, once I can tell everything, we'll tell everything. Um,
but I've learned a lot with always know what's going
on in your company inside and out. Because even though
I knew what was going on with the products, the
back end financial stuff and contract stuff, I didn't know, um,
(20:46):
things that I didn't even know that I needed to know.
And now I'm like, oh my gosh, why didn't I
even think to ask about that? But I trusted the
person I was partnered with. So I'm like, they know
what they're doing. Why would I even have to ask that?
So I think just things like that, like I, I'm
learning as I go still, and there's so much more
for me to learn. And I think that's a beautiful
thing to keep learning and I'm excited for what's to come.
(21:07):
I'm excited to launch more with you and not have
baggage from the past.
S1 (21:12):
Well, less baggage, more fun lip glosses really like more,
more lip glosses. We're not getting into the bag game. However,
I did just realize and want to talk to you about.
There's somebody who's launching makeup and they give as a
freebie a bag. So maybe that's the only type of
baggage that we're willing to keep in the the joint venture.
S2 (21:30):
Yes.
S1 (21:31):
With that, I know we are at the last handful
of minutes here. Anything that you would want to share
with a business owner who was struggling to hire great people,
or know if the people that they have around them,
that they can trust and lean into any lessons that
you could share about things that you've learned on that front?
S2 (21:49):
Yeah, I think a big change for me was coming
to your 360 event. It was really eye opening to
me because I, I'd never really been to a business
event like that and a business owner event, and seeing
other business owners in the room that are way more
successful than me in business. And they're having challenges, and
(22:09):
everyone has challenges at different points in their, their business.
And you could be making 1 million or 30 million,
40 million, and you're going to have different challenges along
the way and learning from people that know more than you.
I think that was important for me is like sitting
back and listening to all these people that know so
much in business, and I'm just like a sponge, Like
taking it all in and, um. And still continuing, you know,
(22:33):
reading books and podcasts and coming to events. And I
think it's so inspiring. So that was a huge help
for me. So I thank you guys for that.
S4 (22:42):
I love that.
S1 (22:42):
Well, where can people buy the perfect pink lip gloss?
S2 (22:47):
Yes. Well it's sold out right now. But we're getting
we're working. Oh, that's another thing I'm working on getting
things in faster. I think that's been a learning game
for us too. And, um, people are like, I want
perfect pink. I'm like, I know, I'm so sorry. I'm like,
we're working on it. It's here soon, you guys, I promise.
S1 (23:03):
Um, and that one was actually a funny one, because
maybe before we wrap up that story on my perspective
was that that was not going to sell. I was like,
we don't even need to put very much marketing budget
behind this launch because, like, it's just a really particular
bright colored pink. But what ended up happening with perfect pink.
S4 (23:25):
People loved it, sold out, loved it.
S2 (23:27):
People are begging for it back. And we both thought, oh,
it's just going to be like, maybe not as popular.
It's a pretty color, but it might not look good
on everyone and people loved it. It was so perfect
and we launched it in summer and it was such
a beautiful summer color. Um, but yeah, people can shop
at beautycon and the Instagram is Heather Rae Essentials.
S1 (23:48):
Love it. Well, thank you for being on the podcast.
S4 (23:50):
Thank you.
S1 (23:50):
If you enjoyed this podcast, you are going to definitely
not want to miss out on my new newsletter. It
just dropped. I just started creating this content and I
am obsessed. Every single week in your inbox I am
going to send you business and which is exactly what
it sounds like. How do you fit business and all
of the other things in your life so that you
(24:11):
are up to speed on fashion, beauty, wellness.
S4 (24:15):
All things that really matter. If you want to subscribe
and get this special gift and weekly treat in your inbox,
go to carpenters.com.
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