May 15, 2024 • 21 mins
Long hours, demanding workloads, and stressful late nights at the office... is it impossible to have a good work-life balance when you’re an accountant?
This week, we sit down with ACCA members Clara Tooth and Shaun Fenwick to understand what the lifestyle of an accountant is really like. From preparing for busy times of year (hello, tax season!) to streamlined, time-saving work practices, we dig into the reality of balancing a career in finance with the rest of your life.
Plus, we explore the benefits that finding the right workplace for you can bring - from flexible and hybrid working policies, to Free Beer Fridays. We also chat through Clara and Shaun’s unique journeys into accountancy.
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With skills in accountancy and finance, you can work in any business, anywhere, and turn your passion into an exciting and rewarding career with an ACCA qualification. You can sign up to find out more by heading to www.accaglobal.com/beyouanywhere.
To watch the video version of this podcast, head to www.accaglobal.com/byallaccounts.
By All Accounts… is a Fresh Air Production for ACCA. The Senior Producer is Eva Higginbotham, with support from Sarah Moore. The Executive Producer is Annie Day. The videographer is Yohan Forbes and the Sound Engineer is Basil Oxtoby. Bukky Fadipe is the Assistant Producer and Nik Gandhi is the Marketing Manager.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maiki Lynch (00:01):
Hey, there, I'm Maiki Lynch and I'm an accountant. And
in this series from ACCA, I'm sitting down with some
other accountants and people who work in finance to lift the lid on some
of the common myths you might have fallen for about
this awesome career path. This week we are looking at
the lifestyle of a career in accounting and finance. Is
(00:22):
it really high stress? Do you have to work all hours? And is
it impossible to have a good work- life balance? Let's
find out. This is By All Accounts. Questions about work- life balance are
all the rage these days, especially since the COVID pandemic
(00:42):
changed the way a lot of us work. And in
the finance sector, it's no different. Does a life in
finance really have to involve such sacrifice? I found two
people working in the sector to ask, can you have
a good work-life balance working in finance? First up, Clara Tooth, welcome.
Clara Tooth (01:00):
Hi.
Maiki Lynch (01:01):
And Shaun Fenwick, welcome.
Shaun Fenwick (01:02):
Hello.
Maiki Lynch (01:03):
So I'd like to start off by asking, is having
a good work- life balance, is that important to you?
Clara, can I come to you first?
Clara Tooth (01:11):
Absolutely. Yes, having a good work- life balance is so important.
I would say myself, and I imagine a lot of
other accountants feel the same, is we work very hard
and we put a lot into our jobs. So I
think it's very important to have that balance of when
you go home, it's home and it's your time, your enjoyment,
all for you. And I think that helps get the
(01:32):
best out of you as well. If you're going all the
time and you never give yourself a break, you're not going
to be that good at work. You're not going to
be working to your best ability. So I think having
that balance gets the best out of you and makes
you enjoy your job as well. It's good to do
something you enjoy and that you love.
Maiki Lynch (01:47):
Thank you. And, Shaun, can I come to you?
Shaun Fenwick (01:49):
Yeah, sure. Work- life balance for me is very important.
I love traveling, going on holidays, seeing friends and family.
And we've all been in that position where we're overworked,
but that's not sustainable for a long period of time. Yes,
in accounting there's times of the month where we are
working longer hours, but you need to find a balance,
(02:12):
that's the key there, where you are happy to sacrifice
some of your time, but your employer is also happy
to sacrifice some of their time. And it's working both ways,
so I'm happy to work extra and take some time off,
and so does my employer. And it's finding an employer
that's able to give you that opportunity to have a
comfortable work- life balance. And I think I've found that
(02:34):
that's very important to me, for sure. I'm currently finance
manager at Brixton Brewery, which is a craft beer company
based in South London, in Brixton. What does that entail?
I guess finance manager, I head up the finance team
and it's just a small team of us, just myself
and a finance assistant. We are a subsidiary of Heineken,
(02:55):
so we work very closely with the team at Heineken
as well.
Maiki Lynch (02:59):
That's so exciting. What made you choose that industry?
Shaun Fenwick (03:03):
Well, originally I started as an accountant in practice working
for UHY Hacker Young over in Cambridge. And I was
halfway through my ACCA journey, having sat I guess six
or seven exams at that time. And as an accountant
working in accounts and tax, I was on the pathway
to becoming a manager and then up to a partner
(03:25):
level, and that was my aspirations at the time. But then
for me, practice was very compliance- heavy, so I was
working on accounts and tax for clients, but I was
quite limited in what extra or added value I could
add to those clients. Whereas industry on the other hand,
I'm working in a finance team in- house and really getting
(03:48):
involved in not just the compliance side of things but
the business management, looking at-
Maiki Lynch (03:55):
So you've had a bit more of a breadth of work, working in industry?
Shaun Fenwick (03:57):
Yeah, exactly. Getting involved in projects and being able to
see what I'm adding, if you like. So being able
to get really involved in the day- to- day financial
side of running this business, but then also the future
planning of the business as well. Being able to help
other departments within the business and watching the business grow
(04:20):
over time and I really value that, I think it's
great. Craft beer is a fun and exciting industry. It's an
industry that I've always loved outside of work, so why
not? And accountancy is a wonderful career path to take
and it does open up a lot of opportunities.
Maiki Lynch (04:37):
That's fantastic. I'm going to go to Clara-
Shaun Fenwick (04:38):
Yeah, sure.
Maiki Lynch (04:38):
... and just a little bit about Clara. Where do
you work and what do you do?
Clara Tooth (04:43):
I'm a manager at a firm called Accounts and Legal,
and I'm based in the Manchester office. There's kind of
two parts to my role. The first part is I
hold a team of 12 people, so it's my job
to basically make sure everything gets done, everything gets filed,
we don't miss any deadlines, support the team, develop the
(05:03):
team, help with training, checking in with them, making sure
they're okay. That's the first side of my role. And
then the second side is offering that high- level support
and advice for business owners. The team do a lot
of the groundwork, they get a lot of the numbers together, and my
job is to go and help explain them to business
owners and what they mean and how we can make
(05:26):
differences that will impact and change their lives. But yeah,
that's my role in short, quite a lot going on.
Maiki Lynch (05:32):
That is quite a lot going on. Managing 12 people,
that's a large team. I would call that quite a
large team.
Clara Tooth (05:38):
Yes, definitely. I've got four assistant managers and I'm very
lucky with all of them. They do a great job
of looking after some of the junior members of staff
as well.
Maiki Lynch (05:46):
Can you tell us a little bit about how you
got there? I presume you've been there for a little
while. Can you tell us a little bit about how
you got that role?
Clara Tooth (05:53):
Absolutely. If we go all the way back to 2015,
I'd just left high school, didn't really know what I
wanted to do. I was pretty good at maths, knew
I wanted something that was numbers focused, and just fell
into an accountancy apprenticeship really. And it was luck and
I told myself I'll give myself a month and if
I hate it, I'll go to college and if I like it,
I'll stick it out. Six years down the line I'd
(06:14):
just qualified, and that was about two and a half
years ago now, so eight and a half years in
total. And I've basically just worked my way up bit
by bit by bit. Started off as a trainee, then
a semi- senior, senior, senior, assistant manager, portfolio holder, and now
to manager and client and team responsibility.
Maiki Lynch (06:33):
That's an incredibly quick journey.
Clara Tooth (06:35):
Yes.
Maiki Lynch (06:35):
Congratulations. You came into that straight from school?
Clara Tooth (06:39):
Yeah, 16, straight out of high school.
Maiki Lynch (06:41):
Wow, wow.
Clara Tooth (06:43):
And if I was to go back in time, I'd
definitely do it again because it was a lot of fun.
Maiki Lynch (06:46):
You talked about becoming qualified, so you are a qualified accountant. How did
your exams go? Was it all smooth sailing all the way through?
Clara Tooth (06:55):
I started off with my AAT, that took around three and
a half years, and it was okay. It was challenging.
There was things, there was exams that were difficult, but
it was okay and I got through them all first time.
I then moved on to my ACCA and it was
hard work. I didn't have too much confidence in myself
back then, I didn't think I'd pass many or if any. But
(07:16):
I really got my head down, I worked really hard,
and I managed to pass them all first time. So
it was definitely worth it, but it was by no
means easy and it was very rewarding at the end.
Maiki Lynch (07:26):
Yeah, that's after the journey for a lot of people that step
up from a foundation qualification to your charter qualification can
sometimes feel like a step up. I presume you were
working at the same time as studying?
Clara Tooth (07:42):
Yep. I would work four days a week and then
I'd get one day week study leave as part of
the apprenticeship. And on that day I'd go to college
and then you'd have to study in evenings and weekends
as well. It was a lot of hard work, especially
the closer you get to exams, it's every evening and
every weekend.
Maiki Lynch (07:58):
And do you feel it was worth it?
Clara Tooth (07:59):
Definitely. If I went back in time, I'd definitely do
it all again.
Maiki Lynch (08:03):
Do you remember how you celebrated when you did qualify,
when you got that charter status, the letters after your
name, do you remember what you did or if you celebrated?
Clara Tooth (08:13):
We got our results at midnight, so I think the day that
I qualified I didn't particularly sleep at all that night.
I just think I was so over the moon. Yeah, I didn't
do anything big or crazy. But yeah, I was just
really happy, and lots of celebrations with family and friends.
Long time coming, it felt like by the time I
got there, but it was a really, really good feeling in the moment.
Maiki Lynch (08:33):
Shaun, can I come back to you because I didn't
actually touch upon where you are in your studies or
if you're qualified. Where are you in your journey at the moment?
Shaun Fenwick (08:40):
Yeah, sure. My journey started very similarly to Clara's, although I
stayed at school and did my A- levels, so studied
maths in the first year of my A- levels, and
maths was always a strong point of mine. So naturally
I thought, " Let's start a career in accountancy." I started as
an apprentice, working for a company called Bidwells at the time.
(09:03):
They had a client accounting team and that was in
their agricultural division, so I worked with lots of landowners,
contract farmers, and as you can imagine, it was a
box full of receipts and manually-
Maiki Lynch (09:19):
Are they all there?
Shaun Fenwick (09:20):
Yeah, exactly. My first role in accounting was very junior
as well, and then decided, okay, I want to become a
chartered accountant. So I was weighing up my options and
decided what do I want to have this accountancy qualification
and I want to be an all- rounded accountant, if
you like. Hence, why I chose ACCA. Started my journey
(09:40):
with ACCA also under an apprenticeship scheme, so I was
working four days a week, one day out at college.
I was sitting exams once every quarter at that time
was getting first- time passes for the first year or
two whilst I was under the apprenticeship program. And then
I decided, move away from being an accountant, let's go
(10:02):
and work in an industry such as craft beer, which is
where I'm now. And at that point I no longer
got the study support, so I was studying myself in
the evenings and on the weekends. And that was difficult,
that was really tough. I did fail a couple of
exams, but resat them, got through them eventually. And recently,
in December, I sat my last exam. I'm waiting on
(10:24):
the results so I'm not, well, could be fully qualified,
I might not be, we'll wait and see.
Maiki Lynch (10:30):
That's really exciting. That's it, so you're waiting on the message to come
through. Will you be staying up on Sunday night?
Shaun Fenwick (10:36):
Absolutely, yep. It's always a difficult one. It's like do
I stay up and hope for the best or do I go
to sleep and just check it in the morning? But
if you do that, you're going to have a sleepless night.
But if I stay awake I might have a sleepless
night, who knows, so yeah.
Maiki Lynch (10:50):
Will you let us know how you get on?
Shaun Fenwick (10:51):
Yeah, definitely. For sure. Yeah, it's been a long wait,
it's a six- week wait for the results.
Maiki Lynch (10:55):
Yes. If you pass, what are you going to do, what's the celebration that's been planned?
Are you going to work on Monday?
Shaun Fenwick (11:03):
I haven't got any plans yet. I will be working on Monday. I think it'll be
the weekend after where celebrations will begin. We'll see, friends
and family, just probably go out for a meal and some drinks and yeah, we'll
be in full celebration mode, for sure, hopefully.
Maiki Lynch (11:20):
Clara, I'm going to come back to you. So in
your current role, how do you feel your work- life
balance is and can you tell us just a little
bit about your work- life balance that you have?
Clara Tooth (11:29):
Yeah, absolutely. In terms of work- life balance in my role,
there definitely is a balance. My job is nine- to- five,
although it isn't always nine- to- five. There are definitely
times where sometimes I have to stay late and things
are due and that's that. But on the flip side, there
is a lot of rewards to that kind of job.
(11:51):
For example, where I work at moment we've implemented something
called Friyays, and that's where you get to do a
full day week and take Friday off. So we do
longer four- hour days and then a full Friday off.
Every Saturday and Sunday is off so the weekends are mine.
I do not work on weekends or bank holidays, that
is my time. And things like Christmas I get completely off,
(12:11):
finish on the 22nd, went back on the 2nd of Jan.
And for me I think that's quite a good work-
life balance. When I take time off, that time is mine.
And don't get me wrong, sometimes I do have to work
a little bit late and get something done, but there's
quite a lot of flexibility. We also have things like flexitime,
so I'm not very good at starting work at eight
o'clock in the morning, so I will start at 9:
(12:33):
30 and work until a little bit later. But other members of
the team, they like to be in early and home early and that's
quite nice, you can just fit it around whatever suits
you and your lifestyle, and yeah!
Maiki Lynch (12:46):
Friyay sounds great!
Clara Tooth (12:46):
Friyays are good!
Maiki Lynch (12:46):
Friyay and a little bit of flexi sounds incredible. Shaun, how's
your workplace in terms of work- life balance?
Shaun Fenwick (12:55):
For me it's great. I think everyone has their own work-
life meaning. For me it's just being able to have
the time available to see friends and families, go on
holiday, et cetera, and not being overworked. In the world
of accounting now there's so many systems that you can
implement to streamline your work, so for me it's all
(13:18):
about working smart and not harder, and how can I
do that to make sure that I've got the most
amount of free time possible, really. We do work 9:
00 until 5:00 but there's no commitment to work any extra hours
in the evenings or the weekends, so that's my own
time. We have a good annual leave allowance so I can
get those holiday trips in. We can also work wherever,
(13:39):
whenever. So we can work remotely, whether that's at home,
or if you want to book a long weekend somewhere
and you want to work-
Maiki Lynch (13:48):
As well.
Shaun Fenwick (13:48):
... in a different country, you can, you just need
a laptop and that's great.
Maiki Lynch (13:52):
Lovely. And so I think accounting and finance, it does have that
reputation, particularly at the beginning but also when you are
qualified and you are more senior, of being quite hours-
heavy. Have you found that to be the case?
Shaun Fenwick (14:04):
In a previous role there was quite a big focus
on billable hours or chargeable hours. Especially in the role
that I was in at the time it was very much, "
Right, I just need to sit and work." But throughout
my time in that role the company shifted its mentality
from billable, chargeable hours to valuable hours, if you like.
(14:24):
And it was about getting the work done to a
high standard and it was up to you to decide
how many hours you were working. And if you were excelling
and you were putting in the effort, you would be
rewarded for that, which I think was great. So that
mindset has changed definitely.
Maiki Lynch (14:40):
Do you think that happened during the pandemic or do you think the pandemic gave any changes to the way
we work?
Shaun Fenwick (14:46):
For me it happened before the pandemic.
Maiki Lynch (14:46):
Before?
Shaun Fenwick (14:46):
Yeah. The pandemic helped. The pandemic has introduced this idea
of a four- day working week. There's a lot of
research to suggest that actually you can do the same
amount of work in fewer hours, and I think that's
great. And I think accountancy is one of those roles
where that's evident, you can really demonstrate that.
Clara Tooth (15:09):
I think from my perspective, I do think there probably
was once a time where people were working late and
you had to work a lot of hours, but in
practice I think there's been a very big change in
the last, say, five years or so, where technology's come
in and we've shifted from everything being, " Oh my gosh,
the client's given me something a day before deadline," to it
(15:30):
being a lot more electronic. So I feel like you
can get ahead of things a lot more and plan
better and prepare better, and I found that that's reduced
that need almost for excessive working because it's not like
you've got 10 people who all need everything doing tomorrow,
you actually have ... You're able to do things easier and
earlier and quicker. You'll hear a lot of accountants talk
about this time of year, tax return season, and everyone's
(15:52):
working crazy. Well, actually, the way things are going I've
found each year it's eased off a little bit more,
a little bit more, a little bit more. And we
do just seem to be getting into a better system
almost. And I think that is allowing also better work- life balance
and taking quite a lot of stress off. Compared to,
when I think back to when I first started, the
amount of things you'd have to get done in a
(16:13):
short period of time due to things outside of your
control aren't exactly the same now, you do have a
lot more control and a lot more ability to reduce
that stress.
Maiki Lynch (16:23):
Do you think you can achieve a good work- life balance
working in accounting and finance?
Clara Tooth (16:27):
I think you definitely can achieve it. And the way that
my view on it is, like I said earlier, sometimes
you do still have to work late, but you do
get that back. So that's where the balance comes, is
there is a little bit of give but you do
take it back for yourself and you do get to enjoy
your life and your lifestyle. I feel very lucky, blessed, grateful,
(16:48):
all of it, with the lifestyle that I'm able to
have. I'm 24, I qualified at 22, and that's pretty
young for an accountant. In the summer, so just in
August '23, I managed to buy my first home on
my own and that was an absolutely amazing achievement for
me. And I feel very grateful that I was firstly
(17:09):
given the opportunity as a 16- year- old to be
allowed to become an accountant and work my way up and
have all this, and I feel so blessed that when
I book time off I can go on holiday. It's
very lucky to be able to have a long- term
career and know that you're always safe and you're always
going to have a nice, steady income, and that will
then give you the opportunities to do what you want
(17:31):
to do with your life outside of work. And enjoy
yourself because we all get up every day, we come
to work, when we go home we should be able
to do what we want to and what makes us
happy. But it is opened a lot of things personally
as well. I'm able to do what I want and
it's great, I feel very blessed.
Maiki Lynch (17:48):
Well, congratulations, particularly on you house purchase.
Clara Tooth (17:51):
Thank you.
Maiki Lynch (17:52):
You've worked so hard for and it's just really inspiring
to hear, so thank you for sharing that with us.
Clara Tooth (17:58):
Well, my house definitely isn't a mansion by any means,
but I've got my own!
Maiki Lynch (18:02):
Give it time, the second one.
Clara Tooth (18:03):
Yeah, I've got some bricks and mortar, it's great.
Maiki Lynch (18:05):
Shaun, coming to you, just the same questioning from me.
What lifestyle has this career path allowed you to have?
Shaun Fenwick (18:13):
It's introduced me to a lot of interesting people, opened
up a lot of opportunities. Also, for me, I work
in craft beer, which is a really fun, exciting industry.
We have a taproom, so it means going out to the taproom and
drinking loads of free beer, which is brilliant, so that's
Friday evening sorted. And I'm very fortunate enough to be in a
(18:36):
position where I can go on a number of holidays
every year, explore the world, live in an amazing city.
I live in London, which is brilliant. And likewise, I'm
very excited what the future holds. There's so many different
routes you can take and which I can still take.
There's so many skills that I can learn and I
haven't learned. Accountancy is this never- ending cycle, which you
(18:57):
can just keep getting the next opportunity, or fighting for
the next opportunity.
Maiki Lynch (19:03):
Do you think, Shaun, that you can achieve or that you have achieved a good work- life balance?
Shaun Fenwick (19:05):
Yeah, definitely. In my role, I'm responsible for managing my
own workload as well. For me, I've been in other
roles prior to being an accountant, where I'm customer- facing,
for example. I need to be present. I need to
be there from this hour to that hour. In accountancy
it is up to me to pick up the work
when I can and to get it done when I
(19:26):
need to get it done. That will enable me to
juggle my own workload and to achieve a healthy work-
life balance.
Maiki Lynch (19:33):
Absolutely. That flexibility is-
Shaun Fenwick (19:34):
The flexibility is key, yeah. Yeah.
Maiki Lynch (19:36):
Yeah. So, so key. What advice would you give someone
perhaps who is considering a career in accounting and finance?
Shaun Fenwick (19:46):
Speak to another accountant or more than one other accountant.
Accountancy's such a big, big industry, so try to speak
to as many people as you can in the industry
to decide what route you want to take. With accountancy,
there are so many transferable skills that you pick up.
So if you do start your career in accounting and
(20:06):
change your mind, that's not a bad thing, you'll definitely
use what you've learned with ACCA in any career I
feel. Definitely do your research first and then just go
for it, I think.
Maiki Lynch (20:21):
I love that, just go for it. Clara, same to you?
Clara Tooth (20:24):
My advice would be just do it, literally go for
it. If you don't like it, that's fine, at least
you tried. And I would say it's hard at the
beginning, so there might be times where you feel like giving up,
but just persevere through because by the time you come
out the other side, the lifestyle you can have and the opportunities that
you can have are amazing. So as much as when it
(20:46):
feels hard in the moment, just remember that it'll all be worthwhile.
Maiki Lynch (20:50):
That's it from this episode of By All Accounts. Thank
you Shaun and Clara for chatting with me today. And
good news, we've heard from Shaun that he did pass
that last exam and is qualified. Massive congratulations from all
of us at ACCA. For a link to watch the
video version of this podcast, check out the show notes.
With skills in accountancy and finance you can work in
(21:11):
any business anywhere and turn your passion into an exciting
and rewarding career with an ACCA qualification. You can sign
up to find out more by heading to accaglobal. com/
beyouanywhere. That link is also in the show notes. See
you next week. I'm Maiki Lynch and this has been
(21:33):
By All Accounts. By All Accounts is a Fresh Air
Production for ACCA. Its lead producer is Eva Higginbotham and
its executive producer is Annie Day, with support from Sarah
Moore. Yohan Forbes is the videographer.
Hey, there, I'm Maiki Lynch and I'm an accountant. And
in this series from ACCA, I'm sitting down with some
other accountants and people who work in finance to lift the lid on some
of the common myths you might have fallen for about
this awesome career path. This week we are looking at
the lifestyle of a career in accounting and finance. Is
(00:22):
it really high stress? Do you have to work all hours? And is
it impossible to have a good work- life balance? Let's
find out. This is By All Accounts. Questions about work- life balance are
all the rage these days, especially since the COVID pandemic
(00:42):
changed the way a lot of us work. And in
the finance sector, it's no different. Does a life in
finance really have to involve such sacrifice? I found two
people working in the sector to ask, can you have
a good work-life balance working in finance? First up, Clara Tooth, welcome.
Clara Tooth (01:00):
Hi.
Maiki Lynch (01:01):
And Shaun Fenwick, welcome.
Shaun Fenwick (01:02):
Hello.
Maiki Lynch (01:03):
So I'd like to start off by asking, is having
a good work- life balance, is that important to you?
Clara, can I come to you first?
Clara Tooth (01:11):
Absolutely. Yes, having a good work- life balance is so important.
I would say myself, and I imagine a lot of
other accountants feel the same, is we work very hard
and we put a lot into our jobs. So I
think it's very important to have that balance of when
you go home, it's home and it's your time, your enjoyment,
all for you. And I think that helps get the
(01:32):
best out of you as well. If you're going all the
time and you never give yourself a break, you're not going
to be that good at work. You're not going to
be working to your best ability. So I think having
that balance gets the best out of you and makes
you enjoy your job as well. It's good to do
something you enjoy and that you love.
Maiki Lynch (01:47):
Thank you. And, Shaun, can I come to you?
Shaun Fenwick (01:49):
Yeah, sure. Work- life balance for me is very important.
I love traveling, going on holidays, seeing friends and family.
And we've all been in that position where we're overworked,
but that's not sustainable for a long period of time. Yes,
in accounting there's times of the month where we are
working longer hours, but you need to find a balance,
(02:12):
that's the key there, where you are happy to sacrifice
some of your time, but your employer is also happy
to sacrifice some of their time. And it's working both ways,
so I'm happy to work extra and take some time off,
and so does my employer. And it's finding an employer
that's able to give you that opportunity to have a
comfortable work- life balance. And I think I've found that
(02:34):
that's very important to me, for sure. I'm currently finance
manager at Brixton Brewery, which is a craft beer company
based in South London, in Brixton. What does that entail?
I guess finance manager, I head up the finance team
and it's just a small team of us, just myself
and a finance assistant. We are a subsidiary of Heineken,
(02:55):
so we work very closely with the team at Heineken
as well.
Maiki Lynch (02:59):
That's so exciting. What made you choose that industry?
Shaun Fenwick (03:03):
Well, originally I started as an accountant in practice working
for UHY Hacker Young over in Cambridge. And I was
halfway through my ACCA journey, having sat I guess six
or seven exams at that time. And as an accountant
working in accounts and tax, I was on the pathway
to becoming a manager and then up to a partner
(03:25):
level, and that was my aspirations at the time. But then
for me, practice was very compliance- heavy, so I was
working on accounts and tax for clients, but I was
quite limited in what extra or added value I could
add to those clients. Whereas industry on the other hand,
I'm working in a finance team in- house and really getting
(03:48):
involved in not just the compliance side of things but
the business management, looking at-
Maiki Lynch (03:55):
So you've had a bit more of a breadth of work, working in industry?
Shaun Fenwick (03:57):
Yeah, exactly. Getting involved in projects and being able to
see what I'm adding, if you like. So being able
to get really involved in the day- to- day financial
side of running this business, but then also the future
planning of the business as well. Being able to help
other departments within the business and watching the business grow
(04:20):
over time and I really value that, I think it's
great. Craft beer is a fun and exciting industry. It's an
industry that I've always loved outside of work, so why
not? And accountancy is a wonderful career path to take
and it does open up a lot of opportunities.
Maiki Lynch (04:37):
That's fantastic. I'm going to go to Clara-
Shaun Fenwick (04:38):
Yeah, sure.
Maiki Lynch (04:38):
... and just a little bit about Clara. Where do
you work and what do you do?
Clara Tooth (04:43):
I'm a manager at a firm called Accounts and Legal,
and I'm based in the Manchester office. There's kind of
two parts to my role. The first part is I
hold a team of 12 people, so it's my job
to basically make sure everything gets done, everything gets filed,
we don't miss any deadlines, support the team, develop the
(05:03):
team, help with training, checking in with them, making sure
they're okay. That's the first side of my role. And
then the second side is offering that high- level support
and advice for business owners. The team do a lot
of the groundwork, they get a lot of the numbers together, and my
job is to go and help explain them to business
owners and what they mean and how we can make
(05:26):
differences that will impact and change their lives. But yeah,
that's my role in short, quite a lot going on.
Maiki Lynch (05:32):
That is quite a lot going on. Managing 12 people,
that's a large team. I would call that quite a
large team.
Clara Tooth (05:38):
Yes, definitely. I've got four assistant managers and I'm very
lucky with all of them. They do a great job
of looking after some of the junior members of staff
as well.
Maiki Lynch (05:46):
Can you tell us a little bit about how you
got there? I presume you've been there for a little
while. Can you tell us a little bit about how
you got that role?
Clara Tooth (05:53):
Absolutely. If we go all the way back to 2015,
I'd just left high school, didn't really know what I
wanted to do. I was pretty good at maths, knew
I wanted something that was numbers focused, and just fell
into an accountancy apprenticeship really. And it was luck and
I told myself I'll give myself a month and if
I hate it, I'll go to college and if I like it,
I'll stick it out. Six years down the line I'd
(06:14):
just qualified, and that was about two and a half
years ago now, so eight and a half years in
total. And I've basically just worked my way up bit
by bit by bit. Started off as a trainee, then
a semi- senior, senior, senior, assistant manager, portfolio holder, and now
to manager and client and team responsibility.
Maiki Lynch (06:33):
That's an incredibly quick journey.
Clara Tooth (06:35):
Yes.
Maiki Lynch (06:35):
Congratulations. You came into that straight from school?
Clara Tooth (06:39):
Yeah, 16, straight out of high school.
Maiki Lynch (06:41):
Wow, wow.
Clara Tooth (06:43):
And if I was to go back in time, I'd
definitely do it again because it was a lot of fun.
Maiki Lynch (06:46):
You talked about becoming qualified, so you are a qualified accountant. How did
your exams go? Was it all smooth sailing all the way through?
Clara Tooth (06:55):
I started off with my AAT, that took around three and
a half years, and it was okay. It was challenging.
There was things, there was exams that were difficult, but
it was okay and I got through them all first time.
I then moved on to my ACCA and it was
hard work. I didn't have too much confidence in myself
back then, I didn't think I'd pass many or if any. But
(07:16):
I really got my head down, I worked really hard,
and I managed to pass them all first time. So
it was definitely worth it, but it was by no
means easy and it was very rewarding at the end.
Maiki Lynch (07:26):
Yeah, that's after the journey for a lot of people that step
up from a foundation qualification to your charter qualification can
sometimes feel like a step up. I presume you were
working at the same time as studying?
Clara Tooth (07:42):
Yep. I would work four days a week and then
I'd get one day week study leave as part of
the apprenticeship. And on that day I'd go to college
and then you'd have to study in evenings and weekends
as well. It was a lot of hard work, especially
the closer you get to exams, it's every evening and
every weekend.
Maiki Lynch (07:58):
And do you feel it was worth it?
Clara Tooth (07:59):
Definitely. If I went back in time, I'd definitely do
it all again.
Maiki Lynch (08:03):
Do you remember how you celebrated when you did qualify,
when you got that charter status, the letters after your
name, do you remember what you did or if you celebrated?
Clara Tooth (08:13):
We got our results at midnight, so I think the day that
I qualified I didn't particularly sleep at all that night.
I just think I was so over the moon. Yeah, I didn't
do anything big or crazy. But yeah, I was just
really happy, and lots of celebrations with family and friends.
Long time coming, it felt like by the time I
got there, but it was a really, really good feeling in the moment.
Maiki Lynch (08:33):
Shaun, can I come back to you because I didn't
actually touch upon where you are in your studies or
if you're qualified. Where are you in your journey at the moment?
Shaun Fenwick (08:40):
Yeah, sure. My journey started very similarly to Clara's, although I
stayed at school and did my A- levels, so studied
maths in the first year of my A- levels, and
maths was always a strong point of mine. So naturally
I thought, " Let's start a career in accountancy." I started as
an apprentice, working for a company called Bidwells at the time.
(09:03):
They had a client accounting team and that was in
their agricultural division, so I worked with lots of landowners,
contract farmers, and as you can imagine, it was a
box full of receipts and manually-
Maiki Lynch (09:19):
Are they all there?
Shaun Fenwick (09:20):
Yeah, exactly. My first role in accounting was very junior
as well, and then decided, okay, I want to become a
chartered accountant. So I was weighing up my options and
decided what do I want to have this accountancy qualification
and I want to be an all- rounded accountant, if
you like. Hence, why I chose ACCA. Started my journey
(09:40):
with ACCA also under an apprenticeship scheme, so I was
working four days a week, one day out at college.
I was sitting exams once every quarter at that time
was getting first- time passes for the first year or
two whilst I was under the apprenticeship program. And then
I decided, move away from being an accountant, let's go
(10:02):
and work in an industry such as craft beer, which is
where I'm now. And at that point I no longer
got the study support, so I was studying myself in
the evenings and on the weekends. And that was difficult,
that was really tough. I did fail a couple of
exams, but resat them, got through them eventually. And recently,
in December, I sat my last exam. I'm waiting on
(10:24):
the results so I'm not, well, could be fully qualified,
I might not be, we'll wait and see.
Maiki Lynch (10:30):
That's really exciting. That's it, so you're waiting on the message to come
through. Will you be staying up on Sunday night?
Shaun Fenwick (10:36):
Absolutely, yep. It's always a difficult one. It's like do
I stay up and hope for the best or do I go
to sleep and just check it in the morning? But
if you do that, you're going to have a sleepless night.
But if I stay awake I might have a sleepless
night, who knows, so yeah.
Maiki Lynch (10:50):
Will you let us know how you get on?
Shaun Fenwick (10:51):
Yeah, definitely. For sure. Yeah, it's been a long wait,
it's a six- week wait for the results.
Maiki Lynch (10:55):
Yes. If you pass, what are you going to do, what's the celebration that's been planned?
Are you going to work on Monday?
Shaun Fenwick (11:03):
I haven't got any plans yet. I will be working on Monday. I think it'll be
the weekend after where celebrations will begin. We'll see, friends
and family, just probably go out for a meal and some drinks and yeah, we'll
be in full celebration mode, for sure, hopefully.
Maiki Lynch (11:20):
Clara, I'm going to come back to you. So in
your current role, how do you feel your work- life
balance is and can you tell us just a little
bit about your work- life balance that you have?
Clara Tooth (11:29):
Yeah, absolutely. In terms of work- life balance in my role,
there definitely is a balance. My job is nine- to- five,
although it isn't always nine- to- five. There are definitely
times where sometimes I have to stay late and things
are due and that's that. But on the flip side, there
is a lot of rewards to that kind of job.
(11:51):
For example, where I work at moment we've implemented something
called Friyays, and that's where you get to do a
full day week and take Friday off. So we do
longer four- hour days and then a full Friday off.
Every Saturday and Sunday is off so the weekends are mine.
I do not work on weekends or bank holidays, that
is my time. And things like Christmas I get completely off,
(12:11):
finish on the 22nd, went back on the 2nd of Jan.
And for me I think that's quite a good work-
life balance. When I take time off, that time is mine.
And don't get me wrong, sometimes I do have to work
a little bit late and get something done, but there's
quite a lot of flexibility. We also have things like flexitime,
so I'm not very good at starting work at eight
o'clock in the morning, so I will start at 9:
(12:33):
30 and work until a little bit later. But other members of
the team, they like to be in early and home early and that's
quite nice, you can just fit it around whatever suits
you and your lifestyle, and yeah!
Maiki Lynch (12:46):
Friyay sounds great!
Clara Tooth (12:46):
Friyays are good!
Maiki Lynch (12:46):
Friyay and a little bit of flexi sounds incredible. Shaun, how's
your workplace in terms of work- life balance?
Shaun Fenwick (12:55):
For me it's great. I think everyone has their own work-
life meaning. For me it's just being able to have
the time available to see friends and families, go on
holiday, et cetera, and not being overworked. In the world
of accounting now there's so many systems that you can
implement to streamline your work, so for me it's all
(13:18):
about working smart and not harder, and how can I
do that to make sure that I've got the most
amount of free time possible, really. We do work 9:
00 until 5:00 but there's no commitment to work any extra hours
in the evenings or the weekends, so that's my own
time. We have a good annual leave allowance so I can
get those holiday trips in. We can also work wherever,
(13:39):
whenever. So we can work remotely, whether that's at home,
or if you want to book a long weekend somewhere
and you want to work-
Maiki Lynch (13:48):
As well.
Shaun Fenwick (13:48):
... in a different country, you can, you just need
a laptop and that's great.
Maiki Lynch (13:52):
Lovely. And so I think accounting and finance, it does have that
reputation, particularly at the beginning but also when you are
qualified and you are more senior, of being quite hours-
heavy. Have you found that to be the case?
Shaun Fenwick (14:04):
In a previous role there was quite a big focus
on billable hours or chargeable hours. Especially in the role
that I was in at the time it was very much, "
Right, I just need to sit and work." But throughout
my time in that role the company shifted its mentality
from billable, chargeable hours to valuable hours, if you like.
(14:24):
And it was about getting the work done to a
high standard and it was up to you to decide
how many hours you were working. And if you were excelling
and you were putting in the effort, you would be
rewarded for that, which I think was great. So that
mindset has changed definitely.
Maiki Lynch (14:40):
Do you think that happened during the pandemic or do you think the pandemic gave any changes to the way
we work?
Shaun Fenwick (14:46):
For me it happened before the pandemic.
Maiki Lynch (14:46):
Before?
Shaun Fenwick (14:46):
Yeah. The pandemic helped. The pandemic has introduced this idea
of a four- day working week. There's a lot of
research to suggest that actually you can do the same
amount of work in fewer hours, and I think that's
great. And I think accountancy is one of those roles
where that's evident, you can really demonstrate that.
Clara Tooth (15:09):
I think from my perspective, I do think there probably
was once a time where people were working late and
you had to work a lot of hours, but in
practice I think there's been a very big change in
the last, say, five years or so, where technology's come
in and we've shifted from everything being, " Oh my gosh,
the client's given me something a day before deadline," to it
(15:30):
being a lot more electronic. So I feel like you
can get ahead of things a lot more and plan
better and prepare better, and I found that that's reduced
that need almost for excessive working because it's not like
you've got 10 people who all need everything doing tomorrow,
you actually have ... You're able to do things easier and
earlier and quicker. You'll hear a lot of accountants talk
about this time of year, tax return season, and everyone's
(15:52):
working crazy. Well, actually, the way things are going I've
found each year it's eased off a little bit more,
a little bit more, a little bit more. And we
do just seem to be getting into a better system
almost. And I think that is allowing also better work- life balance
and taking quite a lot of stress off. Compared to,
when I think back to when I first started, the
amount of things you'd have to get done in a
(16:13):
short period of time due to things outside of your
control aren't exactly the same now, you do have a
lot more control and a lot more ability to reduce
that stress.
Maiki Lynch (16:23):
Do you think you can achieve a good work- life balance
working in accounting and finance?
Clara Tooth (16:27):
I think you definitely can achieve it. And the way that
my view on it is, like I said earlier, sometimes
you do still have to work late, but you do
get that back. So that's where the balance comes, is
there is a little bit of give but you do
take it back for yourself and you do get to enjoy
your life and your lifestyle. I feel very lucky, blessed, grateful,
(16:48):
all of it, with the lifestyle that I'm able to
have. I'm 24, I qualified at 22, and that's pretty
young for an accountant. In the summer, so just in
August '23, I managed to buy my first home on
my own and that was an absolutely amazing achievement for
me. And I feel very grateful that I was firstly
(17:09):
given the opportunity as a 16- year- old to be
allowed to become an accountant and work my way up and
have all this, and I feel so blessed that when
I book time off I can go on holiday. It's
very lucky to be able to have a long- term
career and know that you're always safe and you're always
going to have a nice, steady income, and that will
then give you the opportunities to do what you want
(17:31):
to do with your life outside of work. And enjoy
yourself because we all get up every day, we come
to work, when we go home we should be able
to do what we want to and what makes us
happy. But it is opened a lot of things personally
as well. I'm able to do what I want and
it's great, I feel very blessed.
Maiki Lynch (17:48):
Well, congratulations, particularly on you house purchase.
Clara Tooth (17:51):
Thank you.
Maiki Lynch (17:52):
You've worked so hard for and it's just really inspiring
to hear, so thank you for sharing that with us.
Clara Tooth (17:58):
Well, my house definitely isn't a mansion by any means,
but I've got my own!
Maiki Lynch (18:02):
Give it time, the second one.
Clara Tooth (18:03):
Yeah, I've got some bricks and mortar, it's great.
Maiki Lynch (18:05):
Shaun, coming to you, just the same questioning from me.
What lifestyle has this career path allowed you to have?
Shaun Fenwick (18:13):
It's introduced me to a lot of interesting people, opened
up a lot of opportunities. Also, for me, I work
in craft beer, which is a really fun, exciting industry.
We have a taproom, so it means going out to the taproom and
drinking loads of free beer, which is brilliant, so that's
Friday evening sorted. And I'm very fortunate enough to be in a
(18:36):
position where I can go on a number of holidays
every year, explore the world, live in an amazing city.
I live in London, which is brilliant. And likewise, I'm
very excited what the future holds. There's so many different
routes you can take and which I can still take.
There's so many skills that I can learn and I
haven't learned. Accountancy is this never- ending cycle, which you
(18:57):
can just keep getting the next opportunity, or fighting for
the next opportunity.
Maiki Lynch (19:03):
Do you think, Shaun, that you can achieve or that you have achieved a good work- life balance?
Shaun Fenwick (19:05):
Yeah, definitely. In my role, I'm responsible for managing my
own workload as well. For me, I've been in other
roles prior to being an accountant, where I'm customer- facing,
for example. I need to be present. I need to
be there from this hour to that hour. In accountancy
it is up to me to pick up the work
when I can and to get it done when I
(19:26):
need to get it done. That will enable me to
juggle my own workload and to achieve a healthy work-
life balance.
Maiki Lynch (19:33):
Absolutely. That flexibility is-
Shaun Fenwick (19:34):
The flexibility is key, yeah. Yeah.
Maiki Lynch (19:36):
Yeah. So, so key. What advice would you give someone
perhaps who is considering a career in accounting and finance?
Shaun Fenwick (19:46):
Speak to another accountant or more than one other accountant.
Accountancy's such a big, big industry, so try to speak
to as many people as you can in the industry
to decide what route you want to take. With accountancy,
there are so many transferable skills that you pick up.
So if you do start your career in accounting and
(20:06):
change your mind, that's not a bad thing, you'll definitely
use what you've learned with ACCA in any career I
feel. Definitely do your research first and then just go
for it, I think.
Maiki Lynch (20:21):
I love that, just go for it. Clara, same to you?
Clara Tooth (20:24):
My advice would be just do it, literally go for
it. If you don't like it, that's fine, at least
you tried. And I would say it's hard at the
beginning, so there might be times where you feel like giving up,
but just persevere through because by the time you come
out the other side, the lifestyle you can have and the opportunities that
you can have are amazing. So as much as when it
(20:46):
feels hard in the moment, just remember that it'll all be worthwhile.
Maiki Lynch (20:50):
That's it from this episode of By All Accounts. Thank
you Shaun and Clara for chatting with me today. And
good news, we've heard from Shaun that he did pass
that last exam and is qualified. Massive congratulations from all
of us at ACCA. For a link to watch the
video version of this podcast, check out the show notes.
With skills in accountancy and finance you can work in
(21:11):
any business anywhere and turn your passion into an exciting
and rewarding career with an ACCA qualification. You can sign
up to find out more by heading to accaglobal. com/
beyouanywhere. That link is also in the show notes. See
you next week. I'm Maiki Lynch and this has been
(21:33):
By All Accounts. By All Accounts is a Fresh Air
Production for ACCA. Its lead producer is Eva Higginbotham and
its executive producer is Annie Day, with support from Sarah
Moore. Yohan Forbes is the videographer.
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