June 5, 2024 • 21 mins
Writing essays, crunching numbers, even analysing basic strategy ideas… artificial intelligence can do so much these days. Does that mean accountancy jobs are at risk?
In our final episode, we sit down with experts to discuss how artificial intelligence is changing the world of the accountancy. Imtiaz Ahmad FCCA speaks from his years of experience about how different technologies have changed accounting, and the benefits of AI in his own practice. ACCA UK’s Head of Technology Alistair Brisbourne, PhD talks us through ACCA’s ‘AI In The Finance Profession’ report, including surveys on the concerns of current ACCA students and members, and describes the ways in which he believes AI is going to affect the roles of accountants within organisations in years to come.
To find out more about the role for AI in finance, checkout the ACCA report here https://www.accaglobal.com/content/dam/ACCA_Global/professional-insights/QuickguidetoAI/PI-AI-ACCA-POSITION%20v2.pdf
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With skills in accountancy and finance, you can work in any business, anywhere, and turn your passion into an exciting and rewarding career with an ACCA qualification. You can sign up to find out more by heading to www.accaglobal.com/beyouanywhere.
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By All Accounts… is a Fresh Air Production for ACCA. The Senior Producer is Eva Higginbotham, with support from Sarah Moore. The Executive Producer is Annie Day. The videographer is Yohan Forbes and the Sound Engineer is Basil Oxtoby. Bukky Fadipe is the Assistant Producer and Nik Gandhi is the Marketing Manager.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maiki Lynch (00:01):
Hey, there. I'm Maiki Lynch and I'm an accountant. And
in this series from ACCA, I've been sitting down with
other accountants and people who work in finance to hear
about their journeys in the world of work, and bust
some common myths about these careers along the way. This
week is our final episode, and it's a rather special
one because we are going to be squaring up one
(00:22):
of the biggest questions facing not just those working in
accounting and finance, but has the potential to change almost
every area of our lives. That's right, it's artificial intelligence.
These days it seems like AI is always in the news,
whether it's ChatGPT helping students write essays, or big manufacturing
companies changing their processes. But is AI going to have a big role to play in
(00:46):
the future of finance? Is it going to help or
be a hindrance? And what could it mean for careers
in accountancy? Let's find out. This is By All Accounts.
Depending on how it's discussed, the changes AI may bring
to our lives can feel either like a golden opportunity
(01:07):
or a looming threat. So when it came to careers
in accounting and finance, I've gone to the experts. First
up I have ACCA's own Head of Technology Research, Alistair Brisbourne,
who's been digging into what AI means for the future
of accountancy. Hello, Alistair.
Alistair Brisbourne (01:23):
Hello, Maiki.
Maiki Lynch (01:24):
And also Imtiaz Ahmad. Imtiaz qualified as an accountant back
in 2007 and has worked in both the private and
public sectors, all the way from junior roles to top
executive levels. He's here to share his views on how
the industry has changed over the years and is continuing
to change. Hello, Imtiaz.
Imtiaz Ahmad (01:42):
Hi.
Maiki Lynch (01:43):
Welcome. So Alistair, I'm going to come to you first.
I know AI is everywhere these days, but it can
feel a little bit of a black box to some.
Can you give me a really straightforward explanation as to
what AI is?
Alistair Brisbourne (01:58):
Well, that's a challenge. Basically, AI is about using a
computer, the strengths of computers, to do things that used
to be done by human intelligence. I think something that
we're also aware of that's accessible to all of us
is thinking about smart playlists. Whether you're using Spotify or
Apple Music, these playlists, they know what music you like
(02:21):
and they know why you like it because they're assessing
the music that you're listening to, they're assessing the music
that other people listen to, in order to make suggestions
as to other songs that you might like. So what
it's doing is there's this algorithm that's learning from data, in
this case your music choices, and then it's making suggestions
as to other songs you might like. And that applies
(02:42):
to basically all forms of artificial intelligence. It's as simple
as a machine understanding patterns within data. And so as
you say, it's pervasive in our lives, whether it's the
mapping systems we use to get here today to understand
traffic flow information, to understand route guidance, all this is
infused with AI. Or the quirky questions we ask our
(03:04):
Siri and Alexa and Google assistants, that's all AI- based.
Or we had the Beatles release a song last year,
for example, thanks to a machine learning tool that was
able to extract data from an old hissy tape and
turn it into a new track. And so AI is
basically using the strengths of AI to recognize patterns within
(03:27):
large data sets and extract that in a useful way
for us.
Maiki Lynch (03:31):
What's this got to do with accounting and finance and
the roles that we have?
Alistair Brisbourne (03:34):
Well, I mean, the core of our job is to look at
huge amounts of financial data, as well as other forms
of data these days. We're looking at more unstructured data
sets like text these days and imagery and things like
that. And so being able to extract insight from that
data is absolutely fundamental in the accountancy role, and it
(03:55):
will be even more so moving forward. If you think
about some of these routine tasks that accountants are involved
in, the data entry tasks, reconciling debits and credits, and some
of these basic things that everyone has to learn along
the way, AI is really useful in not just saving
time, but also reducing errors and increasing accuracy in those
(04:16):
processes, so it's fantastic. And then we can apply it
to things like fraud, so identifying anomalies within data sets,
improving our risk management processes. We can use it to
help interpret tax law, to help fill out forms. So
there are a myriad ways in which AI can help
the accountancy profession, I think we're just scratching the surface
(04:38):
at the moment.
Maiki Lynch (04:40):
I love what you've talked about there because it sounds
like we're going beyond just efficiencies that can be made,
perhaps some more the entry level roles there.
Alistair Brisbourne (04:48):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Efficiency is the immediate go- to we
think about when we think about AI and automation, but
really it's about enabling better strategic advice. It's about moving
beyond just the transactional aspects of the role and actually
providing that business acumen, that strategic acumen, that accountants actually
(05:09):
do have. They have a solid understanding of their organization
because of the information that they're working with.
Maiki Lynch (05:15):
Imtiaz, I'd like to come to you if I may.
You've been in senior accounting roles for some time. What
conversations have you been hearing about AI?
Imtiaz Ahmad (05:24):
Well, it depends on the context. Usually AI is taken
as a threat. Every time, if you see the last
50 to 70 years of human history where we have evolved so
much technological development and everything around it, whenever there is
a new technological development, new advancement, there is a new
milestone, it's always taken as a threat first. And then
(05:45):
later on people realized, " Oh, no, no, no, no. It was
a mistake. It's better for us to enable us to
help us to facilitate the processes." So the same thing
is with AI. You see now we are, as Alistair
has said, that we are more of at the initial stage
of scratching the surface. There are so much more we
are going to do, not only in accountancy, but in
(06:08):
every other aspect of life. The reconciliations between one account
to another account, between one organization to another organization, is
going to be automated. We are going to be working
more on analytical side than the data processing itself.
Maiki Lynch (06:24):
And within your own work, has it changed your own work, has it?
Imtiaz Ahmad (06:27):
Oh, so much, so much, so much so. I remember when
I started working right after my qualification in 2007, I
was working in public sector in one of the organizations in Pakistan. And I
mean, you will be surprised, it was not that old
time, but still people were using the ledgers, the hardcore
printed ledgers, and we were doing actual reconciliation between bank
(06:50):
and the ledger by hand on the ledger, on the-
Maiki Lynch (06:52):
I'm not surprised. When I learned bookkeeping, I would go out
and bookkeeping was in books, if you could imagine - books!
Imtiaz Ahmad (06:59):
Exactly.
Maiki Lynch (07:00):
Yes. And that T- account that you learn about in
college, that is the spine of the book. That's where
the T- account comes from.
Imtiaz Ahmad (07:06):
True, true. I mean, it's like 14, 15 years ago only,
and now, a few years back, I was working with
one of the Big Four consulting firms, and one of
the assignments we were working ... One of the Sovereign Wealth
Fund for preparing their financial policies and procedures, and took
us at least two to three months to first prepare
(07:29):
the data process flow diagrams, and then explain them into
the policies and procedures. And that was so much manual
work. We were writing from our own heads, " Okay, the data is
moving here," and there is approval and everything. Now you'll
surprised to know that you can take the picture of
the data flow diagram and give it to ChatGPT or
(07:49):
any other relevant AI, and then it will write you
just like that, give it in two minutes.
Maiki Lynch (07:55):
Wow. Such a time saving.
Imtiaz Ahmad (07:57):
Of course. And then what we are going to do
with that, we are going to purify that, we are
going to add value to that. It doesn't mean that we are going
to be out of job because AI has replaced that
processing of the data, that writing down the policies and procedures
manually. No, we are going to work on much higher
level quality. So output is going to be a niche
(08:17):
level of the quality actually in the coming time.
Maiki Lynch (08:20):
So we're freeing up our time-
Imtiaz Ahmad (08:21):
Of course.
Maiki Lynch (08:21):
... to add value to the business, rather than having to
be involved in such labor- intensive tasks.
Imtiaz Ahmad (08:27):
Exactly, exactly.
Maiki Lynch (08:28):
I love that. Alistair, I want to come back to
you. You've done some research on how potential students feel
about AI. Just wondering what have you found?
Alistair Brisbourne (08:37):
It's interesting, and it's interesting, I'm listening to what Imtiaz was saying as
well because there are obviously a few different challenges here. To answer
the question directly, Generation Z does seem to be slightly
more concerned about the impact of AI than other generations. We
look at our talent trends work, in the last two
years it's that generation that expresses the most concern about
(08:57):
technological development in general, but AI specifically. And that's slightly counterintuitive-
Maiki Lynch (09:02):
I agree.
Alistair Brisbourne (09:02):
... because we tend to think they're coming in with a
skillset or an awareness of these technologies that maybe older
generations don't have, so we are surprised to see that.
And when we dig into it and ask the questions and
we get into the discussions, it does seem that there
are a couple different reasons for that. One is that
(09:23):
there is a concern that their career path is going
to be disrupted by automation or AI. That there's a
lot of talk about those entry- level jobs being affected,
and they're very aware that that could mean them. And
so what does their career look like in the future
is a challenge. Then the other side of it's the
skill side. There is this impetus to be more tech-
(09:45):
aware, to have that tech skillset. That's exciting for some
people, but it's not exciting for everyone. And so I
think part of it is the messaging and the communication
in that there's actually a huge opportunity and this next
generation is going to be really, really important to how
AI is adopted. And we've already discussed how AI is
really fundamental to the evolution of the accountancy profession, but
(10:08):
they're going to be at the heart of devising the
solutions, the new ways of working, but also in leveraging
those new insights, as Imtiaz was saying. So they are
going to have an opportunity earlier in their career to
actually take on more strategic roles, not to be bogged
down in some of the more manual tasks that a
lot of people who qualified earlier were in their careers.
(10:30):
So actually we need to communicate more the exciting opportunity that exists
for people that are coming into the profession now because
it does seem like job security and skills challenges are
the major concerns that Gen Z are expressing when they
think about AI.
Maiki Lynch (10:44):
And I don't know if your research touches on this,
but does this compare to what we're seeing in other
industries outside of accounting and finance?
Alistair Brisbourne (10:52):
I mean, I think a really, really good comparison is
the legal profession. It's similar in the sense that we're
at a similar stage in terms of the adoption of
AI, but also some of the ways in which AI
is starting to make a difference is similar. So we
think about routine tasks in the legal profession, there's a
lot of contract or document review that has to take
place. While we're reconciling data, entering data, they're doing what
(11:17):
are very manual, time- intensive review tasks. They're also more
heavily involved in compliance and risk management. And so there
are big similarities in terms of the way the professions
are going. And most law firms used to have big
libraries at the heart of them, and then they moved
online to things like LexisNexis and databases, and now they're
(11:38):
adopting things like generative AI in order to help them
extract information from those databases more efficiently or more effectively.
And so it's very similar to what accounting and finance
professionals are trying to do right now, so I wonder
if these two will evolve together. We could learn a
lot from each other probably in the way we're moving.
Maiki Lynch (11:58):
How do you think things are likely to change, if
you can perhaps look forward?
Alistair Brisbourne (12:03):
Yeah. Imtiaz has already pointed to some really important changes
that are starting to happen, AI is really going to
enable that, and that is using AI- generated insights in order to
provide greater value. The big challenge we have is that,
as I said at the beginning, we're faced with huge
amounts of data, and getting our heads around it and
(12:24):
extracting the most useful insights for our organization is really
difficult and really time- consuming at the very least, and
impossible in some cases because there's too much information. And
so AI is really a huge step- up in our
ability to actually guide organizations to provide a trusted source
(12:45):
of advice, and also to provide greater value out of
the proprietary data that organizations have access to. And without
AI, we can't do that. So it's actually a really,
really important thing that we need to learn how to
use more effectively.
Maiki Lynch (13:01):
Where can people go to find out more about this?
Alistair Brisbourne (13:03):
Well, we've recently released an ACCA guide to AI in
finance, I believe that was released in August last year,
which covers some of the ways in which we think
AI is going to change the profession, but also some
of our principles as an organization towards the adoption of
AI and what we think needs to happen in order
to take advantage of it. There's also the Digital Horizons
(13:25):
report, which was released in September, which touches on some
of the practical ways in which AI is likely to
impact the profession, as well as some of the different
characteristics in terms of organizations that are leading the way
in that regard. And it also touches on generative AI,
the hot topic at the time, as to why is
it exciting, why should we pay attention to it? Is
the hype real or is there substance behind it? And so
(13:47):
this is available on the ACCA website and the P&I, the
policy and insights pages, and we have more work upcoming
this year certainly that's going to cover AI in much
greater depth.
Maiki Lynch (13:56):
Imtiaz, I want to come back to you. What do
you think about these coming changes?
Imtiaz Ahmad (14:00):
In coming years of time, there will be more work
on the analytical side. You are going to see where are
the gaps, where are the inefficiencies, where are the improvement areas.
And then work on those rather than doing the hardcore
laborious work on your own.
Maiki Lynch (14:19):
What do you hope for the future of AI?
Imtiaz Ahmad (14:21):
As I mentioned earlier, I mean, AI is going to
be one side. I mean, in the coming days you
will seeing ChatGPT stores coming just like App Store and
those kind of plugins are going to be integrated with
the ChatGPT and other AI platforms. It is going to
be integrated in every process. It's going to touch accounting
(14:44):
side, finance side, analysis side, budgeting side. It's going to
touch every aspect within our profession. We have multiple lines
within our profession. We have taxation, we have the accounting, we
have audit. Within audit, we have internal audit, external audit.
I mean, you name it. It's not going to be
restricted on one pillar of the profession, it's going to
(15:05):
affect all. How? I'm sure it is going to be
a positive change and that will be a very pleasant
and welcoming towards the new generation who are aspiring to
join the profession actually.
Maiki Lynch (15:20):
Thank you so much. Just from what you've both said,
it makes me think that perhaps each generation we need
to be thinking about becoming that purple person, having that
balance between our accounting and finance skills, and also an
awareness and ability within technology and that space as well.
Just want to come to you both and ask, is
(15:41):
AI going to take all of the accountancy jobs? Imtiaz,
can I come to you first?
Imtiaz Ahmad (15:45):
Yeah, sure. It's not going to replace humans at all.
I am a big believer of enabling technology for helping
the humans to do much more than they originally have
been doing it before. It's going to be an enabler
rather than destroyer. It's going to be as support towards
(16:05):
humans rather than replacing the humans. It's going to see
that wherever there is repetitive nature of works, wherever there
are laborious processes, and give more of analytical side and
more of that side, which AI cannot do that. No,
there's so much creativity, so much things which humans can
(16:28):
do and AI cannot do, and AI will never be able
to do that side of the work. There is the
gap we are going to fulfill, and that is going
to be the side where we need to focus in
the coming time.
Maiki Lynch (16:43):
And, Alistair, can I come to you with the same
question, is AI going to take all of the accountancy jobs?
Alistair Brisbourne (16:48):
Yeah, look, I couldn't agree more. I mean, artificial intelligence
is not human intelligence. They are different things and they
are good at different things. AI is a huge enabler, as
Imtiaz says, it's great for augmenting certain tasks or certain
capabilities because it can extract insights from huge data sets
that would take us ages to do. And it's great
(17:08):
for that. It's great for other things in terms of
reviewing documents, producing text now with generative AI, there are
great ways in which we can employ it, but it's
not the same as the problem- solving capabilities than the
accountant has because of the contextual knowledge that humans can
apply because of the ... There's deep domain expertise and the experience
they have in seeing the way things can go wrong.
(17:30):
So AI will actually need someone to monitor and provide
oversight. And even if we think about those entry level
jobs, which we could say are maybe most at risk
in terms of reduction in the number that might be
required, you still need someone there who understands the basic
principles, how things work, and to oversee the system to
(17:51):
make sure it's operating correctly, because machine learning AI is
not perfect either. This is where you get that purple
person that you were talking about, that merging of skillsets,
someone that has the domain expertise in accountancy but also
more of a technical side. This is a huge opportunity
in that area. I think what we're going to see
is actually a proliferation of specialisms. And the challenge we
(18:11):
have right now is we can't actually see all the
jobs that are going to be created, all the new
areas where there will be new jobs or new roles
that are required in order to better make use of
this technology, to extract more value for our organization. And
that's something that is just going to evolve through practice,
the work that Imtiaz is doing, and other people, they're
(18:33):
developing those roles. And we're sitting back and we're trying
to figure out with our crystal balls what's going to
happen. But no, absolutely, it's not going to replace accountants,
it's not going to replace roles in wholesale. It will
change roles, it will change what people do.
Maiki Lynch (18:50):
Thank you both for your answer to that question. That's fantastic. If someone at home
is considering a career in accounting and finance, Alistair, I
want to come to you first, what advice might you
give them if they're considering it?
Alistair Brisbourne (19:02):
I mean, that's a really good question. It's a difficult
question in the sense that the qualification, accountants do so many
different roles. I think sometimes it's assumed that accountants do
one thing, but actually I was sitting down with my
colleagues the other day and we were trying to list
all the roles that accountants do and we just kept
going from page to page to page. And so I
(19:24):
think it's really exciting. If someone wants to understand how
business works or how organizations operate, what is driving value
within organizations, then I think this is a great career
for anyone who has that kind of mindset, who maybe
has that analytical mindset, has that problem- solving mindset, who
(19:47):
really wants to get involved and make a difference.
Maiki Lynch (19:50):
Thank you. And, Imtiaz, can I come to you, your advice to someone
who's considering a career in accounting and finance?
Imtiaz Ahmad (19:56):
Look, this is an interesting question. I would like to
see, no matter what technological developments, no matter what advancements
are there, money is going to be there. It moved
from hardcore cash to a number in the bank account,
and then the coming years of time when we are
going to introduce the blockchain technology, and then these will be something
(20:21):
else. However, the concept of money is not going to
fade away because it has evolved over centuries actually. As
long as there is money, there will always be need
of accountants.
Maiki Lynch (20:31):
That's fantastic. Thank you so much. That's it for this
episode of By All Accounts. Thank you Imtiaz and Alistair
for joining us today. And that's it from the series.
I hope it's cleared up some questions for you about
working in the financial industries. With skills in accountancy finance
you can work in any business anywhere and turn your
passion into an exciting and rewarding career with an ACCA
(20:54):
qualification. You can sign up to find out more by
heading to accaglobal. com/ be- you- anywhere. That link is also in
the show notes. I'm Maiki Lynch and this has been
By All Accounts.
Hey, there. I'm Maiki Lynch and I'm an accountant. And
in this series from ACCA, I've been sitting down with
other accountants and people who work in finance to hear
about their journeys in the world of work, and bust
some common myths about these careers along the way. This
week is our final episode, and it's a rather special
one because we are going to be squaring up one
(00:22):
of the biggest questions facing not just those working in
accounting and finance, but has the potential to change almost
every area of our lives. That's right, it's artificial intelligence.
These days it seems like AI is always in the news,
whether it's ChatGPT helping students write essays, or big manufacturing
companies changing their processes. But is AI going to have a big role to play in
(00:46):
the future of finance? Is it going to help or
be a hindrance? And what could it mean for careers
in accountancy? Let's find out. This is By All Accounts.
Depending on how it's discussed, the changes AI may bring
to our lives can feel either like a golden opportunity
(01:07):
or a looming threat. So when it came to careers
in accounting and finance, I've gone to the experts. First
up I have ACCA's own Head of Technology Research, Alistair Brisbourne,
who's been digging into what AI means for the future
of accountancy. Hello, Alistair.
Alistair Brisbourne (01:23):
Hello, Maiki.
Maiki Lynch (01:24):
And also Imtiaz Ahmad. Imtiaz qualified as an accountant back
in 2007 and has worked in both the private and
public sectors, all the way from junior roles to top
executive levels. He's here to share his views on how
the industry has changed over the years and is continuing
to change. Hello, Imtiaz.
Imtiaz Ahmad (01:42):
Hi.
Maiki Lynch (01:43):
Welcome. So Alistair, I'm going to come to you first.
I know AI is everywhere these days, but it can
feel a little bit of a black box to some.
Can you give me a really straightforward explanation as to
what AI is?
Alistair Brisbourne (01:58):
Well, that's a challenge. Basically, AI is about using a
computer, the strengths of computers, to do things that used
to be done by human intelligence. I think something that
we're also aware of that's accessible to all of us
is thinking about smart playlists. Whether you're using Spotify or
Apple Music, these playlists, they know what music you like
(02:21):
and they know why you like it because they're assessing
the music that you're listening to, they're assessing the music
that other people listen to, in order to make suggestions
as to other songs that you might like. So what
it's doing is there's this algorithm that's learning from data, in
this case your music choices, and then it's making suggestions
as to other songs you might like. And that applies
(02:42):
to basically all forms of artificial intelligence. It's as simple
as a machine understanding patterns within data. And so as
you say, it's pervasive in our lives, whether it's the
mapping systems we use to get here today to understand
traffic flow information, to understand route guidance, all this is
infused with AI. Or the quirky questions we ask our
(03:04):
Siri and Alexa and Google assistants, that's all AI- based.
Or we had the Beatles release a song last year,
for example, thanks to a machine learning tool that was
able to extract data from an old hissy tape and
turn it into a new track. And so AI is
basically using the strengths of AI to recognize patterns within
(03:27):
large data sets and extract that in a useful way
for us.
Maiki Lynch (03:31):
What's this got to do with accounting and finance and
the roles that we have?
Alistair Brisbourne (03:34):
Well, I mean, the core of our job is to look at
huge amounts of financial data, as well as other forms
of data these days. We're looking at more unstructured data
sets like text these days and imagery and things like
that. And so being able to extract insight from that
data is absolutely fundamental in the accountancy role, and it
(03:55):
will be even more so moving forward. If you think
about some of these routine tasks that accountants are involved
in, the data entry tasks, reconciling debits and credits, and some
of these basic things that everyone has to learn along
the way, AI is really useful in not just saving
time, but also reducing errors and increasing accuracy in those
(04:16):
processes, so it's fantastic. And then we can apply it
to things like fraud, so identifying anomalies within data sets,
improving our risk management processes. We can use it to
help interpret tax law, to help fill out forms. So
there are a myriad ways in which AI can help
the accountancy profession, I think we're just scratching the surface
(04:38):
at the moment.
Maiki Lynch (04:40):
I love what you've talked about there because it sounds
like we're going beyond just efficiencies that can be made,
perhaps some more the entry level roles there.
Alistair Brisbourne (04:48):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Efficiency is the immediate go- to we
think about when we think about AI and automation, but
really it's about enabling better strategic advice. It's about moving
beyond just the transactional aspects of the role and actually
providing that business acumen, that strategic acumen, that accountants actually
(05:09):
do have. They have a solid understanding of their organization
because of the information that they're working with.
Maiki Lynch (05:15):
Imtiaz, I'd like to come to you if I may.
You've been in senior accounting roles for some time. What
conversations have you been hearing about AI?
Imtiaz Ahmad (05:24):
Well, it depends on the context. Usually AI is taken
as a threat. Every time, if you see the last
50 to 70 years of human history where we have evolved so
much technological development and everything around it, whenever there is
a new technological development, new advancement, there is a new
milestone, it's always taken as a threat first. And then
(05:45):
later on people realized, " Oh, no, no, no, no. It was
a mistake. It's better for us to enable us to
help us to facilitate the processes." So the same thing
is with AI. You see now we are, as Alistair
has said, that we are more of at the initial stage
of scratching the surface. There are so much more we
are going to do, not only in accountancy, but in
(06:08):
every other aspect of life. The reconciliations between one account
to another account, between one organization to another organization, is
going to be automated. We are going to be working
more on analytical side than the data processing itself.
Maiki Lynch (06:24):
And within your own work, has it changed your own work, has it?
Imtiaz Ahmad (06:27):
Oh, so much, so much, so much so. I remember when
I started working right after my qualification in 2007, I
was working in public sector in one of the organizations in Pakistan. And I
mean, you will be surprised, it was not that old
time, but still people were using the ledgers, the hardcore
printed ledgers, and we were doing actual reconciliation between bank
(06:50):
and the ledger by hand on the ledger, on the-
Maiki Lynch (06:52):
I'm not surprised. When I learned bookkeeping, I would go out
and bookkeeping was in books, if you could imagine - books!
Imtiaz Ahmad (06:59):
Exactly.
Maiki Lynch (07:00):
Yes. And that T- account that you learn about in
college, that is the spine of the book. That's where
the T- account comes from.
Imtiaz Ahmad (07:06):
True, true. I mean, it's like 14, 15 years ago only,
and now, a few years back, I was working with
one of the Big Four consulting firms, and one of
the assignments we were working ... One of the Sovereign Wealth
Fund for preparing their financial policies and procedures, and took
us at least two to three months to first prepare
(07:29):
the data process flow diagrams, and then explain them into
the policies and procedures. And that was so much manual
work. We were writing from our own heads, " Okay, the data is
moving here," and there is approval and everything. Now you'll
surprised to know that you can take the picture of
the data flow diagram and give it to ChatGPT or
(07:49):
any other relevant AI, and then it will write you
just like that, give it in two minutes.
Maiki Lynch (07:55):
Wow. Such a time saving.
Imtiaz Ahmad (07:57):
Of course. And then what we are going to do
with that, we are going to purify that, we are
going to add value to that. It doesn't mean that we are going
to be out of job because AI has replaced that
processing of the data, that writing down the policies and procedures
manually. No, we are going to work on much higher
level quality. So output is going to be a niche
(08:17):
level of the quality actually in the coming time.
Maiki Lynch (08:20):
So we're freeing up our time-
Imtiaz Ahmad (08:21):
Of course.
Maiki Lynch (08:21):
... to add value to the business, rather than having to
be involved in such labor- intensive tasks.
Imtiaz Ahmad (08:27):
Exactly, exactly.
Maiki Lynch (08:28):
I love that. Alistair, I want to come back to
you. You've done some research on how potential students feel
about AI. Just wondering what have you found?
Alistair Brisbourne (08:37):
It's interesting, and it's interesting, I'm listening to what Imtiaz was saying as
well because there are obviously a few different challenges here. To answer
the question directly, Generation Z does seem to be slightly
more concerned about the impact of AI than other generations. We
look at our talent trends work, in the last two
years it's that generation that expresses the most concern about
(08:57):
technological development in general, but AI specifically. And that's slightly counterintuitive-
Maiki Lynch (09:02):
I agree.
Alistair Brisbourne (09:02):
... because we tend to think they're coming in with a
skillset or an awareness of these technologies that maybe older
generations don't have, so we are surprised to see that.
And when we dig into it and ask the questions and
we get into the discussions, it does seem that there
are a couple different reasons for that. One is that
(09:23):
there is a concern that their career path is going
to be disrupted by automation or AI. That there's a
lot of talk about those entry- level jobs being affected,
and they're very aware that that could mean them. And
so what does their career look like in the future
is a challenge. Then the other side of it's the
skill side. There is this impetus to be more tech-
(09:45):
aware, to have that tech skillset. That's exciting for some
people, but it's not exciting for everyone. And so I
think part of it is the messaging and the communication
in that there's actually a huge opportunity and this next
generation is going to be really, really important to how
AI is adopted. And we've already discussed how AI is
really fundamental to the evolution of the accountancy profession, but
(10:08):
they're going to be at the heart of devising the
solutions, the new ways of working, but also in leveraging
those new insights, as Imtiaz was saying. So they are
going to have an opportunity earlier in their career to
actually take on more strategic roles, not to be bogged
down in some of the more manual tasks that a
lot of people who qualified earlier were in their careers.
(10:30):
So actually we need to communicate more the exciting opportunity that exists
for people that are coming into the profession now because
it does seem like job security and skills challenges are
the major concerns that Gen Z are expressing when they
think about AI.
Maiki Lynch (10:44):
And I don't know if your research touches on this,
but does this compare to what we're seeing in other
industries outside of accounting and finance?
Alistair Brisbourne (10:52):
I mean, I think a really, really good comparison is
the legal profession. It's similar in the sense that we're
at a similar stage in terms of the adoption of
AI, but also some of the ways in which AI
is starting to make a difference is similar. So we
think about routine tasks in the legal profession, there's a
lot of contract or document review that has to take
place. While we're reconciling data, entering data, they're doing what
(11:17):
are very manual, time- intensive review tasks. They're also more
heavily involved in compliance and risk management. And so there
are big similarities in terms of the way the professions
are going. And most law firms used to have big
libraries at the heart of them, and then they moved
online to things like LexisNexis and databases, and now they're
(11:38):
adopting things like generative AI in order to help them
extract information from those databases more efficiently or more effectively.
And so it's very similar to what accounting and finance
professionals are trying to do right now, so I wonder
if these two will evolve together. We could learn a
lot from each other probably in the way we're moving.
Maiki Lynch (11:58):
How do you think things are likely to change, if
you can perhaps look forward?
Alistair Brisbourne (12:03):
Yeah. Imtiaz has already pointed to some really important changes
that are starting to happen, AI is really going to
enable that, and that is using AI- generated insights in order to
provide greater value. The big challenge we have is that,
as I said at the beginning, we're faced with huge
amounts of data, and getting our heads around it and
(12:24):
extracting the most useful insights for our organization is really
difficult and really time- consuming at the very least, and
impossible in some cases because there's too much information. And
so AI is really a huge step- up in our
ability to actually guide organizations to provide a trusted source
(12:45):
of advice, and also to provide greater value out of
the proprietary data that organizations have access to. And without
AI, we can't do that. So it's actually a really,
really important thing that we need to learn how to
use more effectively.
Maiki Lynch (13:01):
Where can people go to find out more about this?
Alistair Brisbourne (13:03):
Well, we've recently released an ACCA guide to AI in
finance, I believe that was released in August last year,
which covers some of the ways in which we think
AI is going to change the profession, but also some
of our principles as an organization towards the adoption of
AI and what we think needs to happen in order
to take advantage of it. There's also the Digital Horizons
(13:25):
report, which was released in September, which touches on some
of the practical ways in which AI is likely to
impact the profession, as well as some of the different
characteristics in terms of organizations that are leading the way
in that regard. And it also touches on generative AI,
the hot topic at the time, as to why is
it exciting, why should we pay attention to it? Is
the hype real or is there substance behind it? And so
(13:47):
this is available on the ACCA website and the P&I, the
policy and insights pages, and we have more work upcoming
this year certainly that's going to cover AI in much
greater depth.
Maiki Lynch (13:56):
Imtiaz, I want to come back to you. What do
you think about these coming changes?
Imtiaz Ahmad (14:00):
In coming years of time, there will be more work
on the analytical side. You are going to see where are
the gaps, where are the inefficiencies, where are the improvement areas.
And then work on those rather than doing the hardcore
laborious work on your own.
Maiki Lynch (14:19):
What do you hope for the future of AI?
Imtiaz Ahmad (14:21):
As I mentioned earlier, I mean, AI is going to
be one side. I mean, in the coming days you
will seeing ChatGPT stores coming just like App Store and
those kind of plugins are going to be integrated with
the ChatGPT and other AI platforms. It is going to
be integrated in every process. It's going to touch accounting
(14:44):
side, finance side, analysis side, budgeting side. It's going to
touch every aspect within our profession. We have multiple lines
within our profession. We have taxation, we have the accounting, we
have audit. Within audit, we have internal audit, external audit.
I mean, you name it. It's not going to be
restricted on one pillar of the profession, it's going to
(15:05):
affect all. How? I'm sure it is going to be
a positive change and that will be a very pleasant
and welcoming towards the new generation who are aspiring to
join the profession actually.
Maiki Lynch (15:20):
Thank you so much. Just from what you've both said,
it makes me think that perhaps each generation we need
to be thinking about becoming that purple person, having that
balance between our accounting and finance skills, and also an
awareness and ability within technology and that space as well.
Just want to come to you both and ask, is
(15:41):
AI going to take all of the accountancy jobs? Imtiaz,
can I come to you first?
Imtiaz Ahmad (15:45):
Yeah, sure. It's not going to replace humans at all.
I am a big believer of enabling technology for helping
the humans to do much more than they originally have
been doing it before. It's going to be an enabler
rather than destroyer. It's going to be as support towards
(16:05):
humans rather than replacing the humans. It's going to see
that wherever there is repetitive nature of works, wherever there
are laborious processes, and give more of analytical side and
more of that side, which AI cannot do that. No,
there's so much creativity, so much things which humans can
(16:28):
do and AI cannot do, and AI will never be able
to do that side of the work. There is the
gap we are going to fulfill, and that is going
to be the side where we need to focus in
the coming time.
Maiki Lynch (16:43):
And, Alistair, can I come to you with the same
question, is AI going to take all of the accountancy jobs?
Alistair Brisbourne (16:48):
Yeah, look, I couldn't agree more. I mean, artificial intelligence
is not human intelligence. They are different things and they
are good at different things. AI is a huge enabler, as
Imtiaz says, it's great for augmenting certain tasks or certain
capabilities because it can extract insights from huge data sets
that would take us ages to do. And it's great
(17:08):
for that. It's great for other things in terms of
reviewing documents, producing text now with generative AI, there are
great ways in which we can employ it, but it's
not the same as the problem- solving capabilities than the
accountant has because of the contextual knowledge that humans can
apply because of the ... There's deep domain expertise and the experience
they have in seeing the way things can go wrong.
(17:30):
So AI will actually need someone to monitor and provide
oversight. And even if we think about those entry level
jobs, which we could say are maybe most at risk
in terms of reduction in the number that might be
required, you still need someone there who understands the basic
principles, how things work, and to oversee the system to
(17:51):
make sure it's operating correctly, because machine learning AI is
not perfect either. This is where you get that purple
person that you were talking about, that merging of skillsets,
someone that has the domain expertise in accountancy but also
more of a technical side. This is a huge opportunity
in that area. I think what we're going to see
is actually a proliferation of specialisms. And the challenge we
(18:11):
have right now is we can't actually see all the
jobs that are going to be created, all the new
areas where there will be new jobs or new roles
that are required in order to better make use of
this technology, to extract more value for our organization. And
that's something that is just going to evolve through practice,
the work that Imtiaz is doing, and other people, they're
(18:33):
developing those roles. And we're sitting back and we're trying
to figure out with our crystal balls what's going to
happen. But no, absolutely, it's not going to replace accountants,
it's not going to replace roles in wholesale. It will
change roles, it will change what people do.
Maiki Lynch (18:50):
Thank you both for your answer to that question. That's fantastic. If someone at home
is considering a career in accounting and finance, Alistair, I
want to come to you first, what advice might you
give them if they're considering it?
Alistair Brisbourne (19:02):
I mean, that's a really good question. It's a difficult
question in the sense that the qualification, accountants do so many
different roles. I think sometimes it's assumed that accountants do
one thing, but actually I was sitting down with my
colleagues the other day and we were trying to list
all the roles that accountants do and we just kept
going from page to page to page. And so I
(19:24):
think it's really exciting. If someone wants to understand how
business works or how organizations operate, what is driving value
within organizations, then I think this is a great career
for anyone who has that kind of mindset, who maybe
has that analytical mindset, has that problem- solving mindset, who
(19:47):
really wants to get involved and make a difference.
Maiki Lynch (19:50):
Thank you. And, Imtiaz, can I come to you, your advice to someone
who's considering a career in accounting and finance?
Imtiaz Ahmad (19:56):
Look, this is an interesting question. I would like to
see, no matter what technological developments, no matter what advancements
are there, money is going to be there. It moved
from hardcore cash to a number in the bank account,
and then the coming years of time when we are
going to introduce the blockchain technology, and then these will be something
(20:21):
else. However, the concept of money is not going to
fade away because it has evolved over centuries actually. As
long as there is money, there will always be need
of accountants.
Maiki Lynch (20:31):
That's fantastic. Thank you so much. That's it for this
episode of By All Accounts. Thank you Imtiaz and Alistair
for joining us today. And that's it from the series.
I hope it's cleared up some questions for you about
working in the financial industries. With skills in accountancy finance
you can work in any business anywhere and turn your
passion into an exciting and rewarding career with an ACCA
(20:54):
qualification. You can sign up to find out more by
heading to accaglobal. com/ be- you- anywhere. That link is also in
the show notes. I'm Maiki Lynch and this has been
By All Accounts.
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