Community Connection August 18th, 2025

Community Connection Monday August 18th, 2025. Join Tina Cosby as we have "Open Lines" with Freetown Village Executive Director Stanley Dumornay & Presenters Elizabeth Nelson & Michelle Daniel Jones speaking with the community about all of today’s pressing topics with our esteemed listeners! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
WTOCAM W two three six c are Indianapolis, discussing the
issues that matter to you and keeping you informed of
what's happening in and around Indy. It's Community Connection with
Tina Cosby, brought to you by Child Advocates, a champion
for justice, opportunity and well being for children on Praise

(00:21):
AM thirteen ten ninety five point one FM.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
And good afternoon, and welcome to Community Connection. I'm Tina Cosby.
Today is Monday, August the eighteenth. Hope everyone had a
great weekend. It sure was a hot one, a very
hot and warm and sticky weekend, you know, Rather than
the number, more so, I should say, than the number
which was, you know, ninety eighty nine. It was the conditions,

(00:48):
I guess the humidity that made it just you know,
kind of unbearable and suffocating in some respects. But anyway,
not a dropper. Well, yeah, it did rain a little
bit over but not bad, not bad. So it has
cooled off a little and we'll we'll certainly enjoy that.
So the weather outside is not impossible. Uh three one

(01:11):
seven four eight zero thirteen ten. Three one seven four
eight zero thirteen ten is the number two Community Connection
three one seven, four eight zero thirteen ten. That line
is open. That is the number to the show, and
on the show today, the Freetown Village Living History Museum
Without Walls continues. It's free community conversation in Indiana's African

(01:35):
American History. The next free event, and again these events
are free, is this Thursday, August twenty first at the
Indiana Landmarks Center down there on the twelve to one
Central Avenue. Now, the topic this week is going to
be the Indiana Women's Prison Project. That should be quite fascinating,

(01:56):
especially when you consider Indiana's Black or Indiana's African American history.
Regarding the Women's prison project, I didn't know there was
such a thing, but Freetown Village is going to share
a little bit of that with us. So more of
that is coming up in our second hour. Right now,
I'm going to catch up a little bit from the weekend.

(02:17):
And as I said, the phone lines are indeed open,
they're open, open, open, three one, seven, four eight zero
thirteen ten. I wanted to share a couple of a
couple of quick things with you, Cameron. First of all,
did you have a before we go? Do you have
a good weekend? Not before we go. Before we get going,
do you have a good weekend?

Speaker 3 (02:36):
I did the wedding gig out of dj On on
Saturday and a Sunday. I was a kg, So I
mean it was a good weekend. Weather weather hell, like
you said, it was very hot. But I had a
great weekend. I can't complain.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, yeah, well, I know because those are all paid
gigs and they're happy times. They're very, very happy times
because when people get married, it's always a happy thing.
And I'm glad I had to see that people are
still marrying. That's wonderful. That's wonderful, you know, despite our
nation having one of the highest divorce rates in the world.
I do believe if I'm not mistaken. If I am mistaken,

(03:11):
correct me. If I'm wrong, correct me. So, yeah, I
had a good one too. It was one of the
busiest ones I've had and I don't know how long
though it seems like as soon as I get home,
I'd have to turn around to go back and do
something else. But saw something really that I hadn't been
to this dinner theater called Beef and Boards for a while.

(03:35):
Hadn't been there for a while. It's on the North
side up there by the Pyramids, northwest, I guess, or
maybe just straight north a little bit more west. But anyway,
they're running a production called Waitress that was once on
Broadway again at Beef and Boards the Dinner Theater, and
the lead is a young lady from Indianapolis and she

(03:57):
was phenomenal. A young African American lady from Indianapolis is
playing the lead in that production. And the thing that
made it really interesting was the movie and the original
Broadway production at Cameron. It was not that color matters,
but it was, you know, there was always a white

(04:18):
woman with the lead. So I don't know who decided
to make that change or what have you, And it
didn't change the story at all. They just happened to
use a black woman in the lead. Have you heard
of that play or anything going on with that.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
No, I have not, actually, but I do appreciate the
fact that they went out of their way to make
that change. I mean, cause you said yourself, it didn't.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Impact the story, not at all, not at all.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Something refreshing to see if you go into plays and
you kind of understand the stereotypes of what the standard
may have been, and they decided to rise above it
and set this set a new standard. I think that
deserves an applause.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
What you think I think it does. I mean I
was just so so, so very impressive. I was really
really impressed with her. She is again a young woman
who went to Indianapolis, and I was looking at her.
Her name is Kirsten Hodge Hodgkins, Kirston Hodgkins, wonderful voice,

(05:14):
and looked up a little bit about her. Looks like
she was at both Warren Central and North Central High School.
But she was an absolute star apparently that slade when
she was in high school about ten or twelve years ago.
She's still quite young. In fact, I couldn't believe I
think it said she was around thirty years old. She
looked like she was eighteen or nineteen. She has a
very very young look. But she used to be just

(05:36):
an absolute star here in the state of Indiana with
her show choir and her musical singing ability and singing
talents winning year after year after year. I mean, she
dominated dominated. So good for you, Kirsten. I really enjoyed
seeing you, and again for a young black woman to

(05:57):
take the role, you know, hats off to to whoever
made that call. Because she took it and ran with it.
It was really fun. And again I had you know,
Beef and Boards is one of those dinner theaters. As
dinner theaters go, you have dinner and then you are
treated to a production afterwards, and sometimes not necessarily this time,

(06:17):
but sometimes they even have a show after that of
like if they have a musician. I remember years ago
seeing bb King there and they had two shows. They
had the dinner show and then they had the cocktail show.
So this, you know, because this is a production, a big,
full on production, they don't do that through the week,
although they do do matinees. But anyway, just wanted to
say hats off and congratulations to Indie's own because she

(06:40):
was the lead and she carried that bad boy. She
was really really good, and they gave her a standing
ovation anything. So I was glad I went to see that.
Hadn't been to a live theater production in quite a while,
so got to do that. And then last night, speaking
of live productions, I went. I was invited a friend
of mine as a management group and he said, you

(07:02):
got to come and see this jazz guitarist, this smooth
jazz guitarist named Nails now you know music, Cameron. Have
you ever heard of Nails? Yes you have, Well that's
who I got to see yesterday. Yeah, oh my goodness.
He And here's the thing. I've heard his music. I

(07:23):
have heard his music before. I just didn't know what
was him. And and he I was fortunate enough he
came over to our table and there was there was
somebody at our table asking. He was talking about a
video with the dog, you know, and that's that it
was just released and he said, I said, oh, I

(07:43):
wanted to find that. He said, well, here, let me
let me show you. And so we were talking and
he was telling me and he said, go ahead and
follow me, and I said, okay, So I'm following him
on his YouTube channel. But he was just absolutely phenomenal.
German born lives in La Now and apparently has some
Manyanapple's connections, and came to do a little gig, you know,

(08:03):
in the afternoon. It was up. It was in Carmel,
which is just you know, just outside of Indianapolis. Everybody
that lives here knows that. But he was he was phenomenal.
I mean, do you like his music? Camera that's refreshing.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
There's something different from.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
Me it is very different THEO. Yeah, he's not a
he's not a singer, you know, pretty much instrumental, though
he has some vocals in the back. But it was
just really cool. I never heard of him, and now,
you know, it's always just fascinating when you can put
a face to the sounds that you hear. And I
learned something. I learned quite a bit, quite a bit. Yeah,

(08:40):
I got a couple more things, but we got some
calls and I, you know, I'll do a little mixture both.
We'll get to the calls and then we'll go back
to catching up. Three one seven, four eight zero thirteen
ten three one seven four eight zero thirteen ten. Carol,
go ahead, how are you hi?

Speaker 4 (08:55):
TENA and camera? What KENU I have? I'm wondering if
you could give me some information. On Brown's show on Saturday,
they announced about a pre Warriors event that's coming up Saturday,
but I didn't get the information on where it was

(09:16):
gonna be helped and they inviting different churches to come
and I'm very interested in it, okay, but I just
didn't get where they go. I came in in the
middle of it.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, well I don't have that, but guess what If
doctor Brown is listening, uh, he can call in. If not,
what I can do is since somebody else emailed me
about that, and I forwarded the email to doctor Brown
and to Thomas Thomas Griffin uh so that they could
see who it was asking the question and they could respond.
So if not, I will ask after the show if

(09:52):
Thomas or doctor Brown are listening now, please do uh
call in and let Carol know. I was away Saturday morning,
so I didn't get to listen to the show. A
lot more more times than not, I do get to
hear their show, and I could have probably shared it,
but this Saturday, unfortunately, was not one of them when
I got a chance to hear. Harambe So, doctor Brown, Thomas,

(10:14):
if either of your listening, please give us a call.
If not, I will contact you both again with Carol's question. Now,
do you have contact information that you can share with
us or leave with us so that we can You
can stay on the line and give it to Cameron
and we can give it to doctor Brown.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
I can stay on the line and give them my information.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
So tell me appreciate Yeah, no, you can do Yeah,
thank you. I appreciate that too. So this is something
doctor Brown was organizing or something. Doctor Brown was telling
everything a lady own.

Speaker 4 (10:45):
And she was given an announcement.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Oh okay, coming up on.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
Saturday, and I know it's from ten to four, but
I didn't get the location. And it's something that I'm
very interested in because we have prayerl Warrior that I
chard and there was one other Prayer Warriors to a
ten because it's for the you pray and fly young.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Okay. I was gonna ask what's the topic? Is it
praying for young people?

Speaker 4 (11:11):
And they will have young people there the panel, and
I'm just very interested.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
In Okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
Thank you for taking the time with me.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, well, thank you. I appreciate it. And well, hopefully
we can get an answer. I know we can get
an answer. Doctor Brown will be in touch with this
before too long. But don't hang up. Stay right there
and Cameron will get your information either your phone number
or your email address, and I'll share that with both
doctor Brown and Thomas.

Speaker 4 (11:42):
Okay, thank you, and I enjoy your programs. Okay, they
just about what I got.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Well, thank you. Who's that online? Three? Cameron?

Speaker 5 (11:50):
Steve?

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh, Steve has an answer to the location. We have
a caller that has an answer. Okay, Well go ahead, Steve,
how are you?

Speaker 6 (11:58):
I'm a faithful listen, listen joy the day.

Speaker 7 (12:01):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (12:02):
Actually, Dave Roselle was on your show about two weeks ago.
I want to say. It's the Indiana Council of People
of Indian a council of educating people of color. Okay,
And her name is Dina Daniels. She's the one of sponsoring.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Oh, okay at Washington Park. Okay.

Speaker 6 (12:22):
It's from ten a m. Until four.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (12:24):
There's a food giveaway, there's free haircuts, yes, backpacks, the
whole nine yards.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (12:32):
They have a gospel r and b uh. More importantly,
there's a a workshop of a part of the superintendent
of Larry young A Park township, Seanas last name hip.
But it's it's it's a lot of a lot of

(12:55):
information regarding helping African American tests. Had some American students
improved there after they on test?

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yes, Yes, yes, we did have that on the show.
If I didn't know that's what it was, I could
have gotten my my flyer. Yes, we did have that absolutely,
so that's what she was talking about.

Speaker 6 (13:14):
Yeah, just a working the car from ten am until five,
and there's workshops, there's giveaways. Uh, it's uh. If I'm
looking forward to it's gonna be really exciting.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
Should be. Yeah, I remember, I remember we had that on. Well,
thank you so much Steve for clearing that up. I appreciate. Ah,
Thomas Thomas is on. Hey stee, all right there he is.
Thank you Steve Thomas, Thomas Thomas and you and your
sparkle socks. Go ahead. How are you doing? How are
you doing, sir?

Speaker 8 (13:45):
Laughing at life, laughing at life? How you doing today?

Speaker 2 (13:48):
I am doing Splendi difference. How's that?

Speaker 9 (13:51):
You know?

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Fantastic splendid you know all of that good stuff and yourself.

Speaker 8 (13:57):
Oh, you know, I'm always groovy. I'm a seventy one
year old man, so nothing holds me down or holds
me back. So I'm groovy.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
I love it. I love it, love it, love it. Well, yeah,
the event we had it, I didn't know what she
was talking about, but she's the second person. And I
think I emailed you and doctor Brown someone else that
had emailed me and wanted to get more information on that.

Speaker 8 (14:19):
So so you did get the information you needed? Or
do you want to expound or delve deeply into well.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
By all means, take it away, go ahead, yes, please.

Speaker 8 (14:28):
Well it's not obviously, it's nothing that I'm involved in.
You know, we have that organization the Indianapolis the Quality
of Life organization that runs out of the Urban League
where Tory Mason and some of the people of Yeah
money to different groups and clubs and organizations. So one
of the groups or clubs or organizations that they funded

(14:49):
are putting together that event on this Saturday over at
Washington Park. Now, I think it's kind of a bold
undertaking ten o'clock to four or five o'clock is a
long time, and I think they're doing a whole lot
of stuff. So I had planned to go through there
and just kind of stick my head in to try
to figure out exactly is it a back to school event?

(15:13):
Is it a community information event? Is it a kids event?
Is it a gospel event? And so they said that
they're going to do a little bit of everything.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
I was going to say when Minister Roselle was on,
that's kind of the way he positioned it. A little
bit of something for everyone, and they were going to
stay there, you know, throughout the course of the day
to give everyone a chance to get there and to go.
But yeah, yeah, one of.

Speaker 8 (15:38):
My only concerns is and I haven't talked to Dave
personally on this, but as they go forwards, I was
trying to figure out what is the next step? Is
this something that's a one off or is this the
foundation to do more things in the future. And then
my last query, if you want to use a big word,
my last question is, at the end of the day,

(16:01):
they have some of those workshops and things are overlapping,
So are you really going to get the full effect
of what you're attempting to try to accomplish?

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah? Yeah, And I got very good, very good questions
and great observations, and you know, I guess we soon
shall see, right, But you know, these these undertakings, a
lot of them are ambitious, and I certainly understand your
you know what you're thinking there, but hey, we got
to try something. We're you know you I was going

(16:32):
to talk about the and I'm still going to talk
about it, the Nazi march through downtown this weekend, right
did you all? That was after your show though?

Speaker 8 (16:42):
Right?

Speaker 9 (16:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (16:43):
So, so you know, for those you're listeners that don't know,
I'm on every Saturday morning on a thirteen ten with
doctor Thomas L. Brown's from nine o'clock to ten o'clock
in the morning, so we only have an hour, so
we can't get into the details of the nuts and
boats of a lot of information or subjects. But as
far as the Nazis downtown, you know, that really is

(17:06):
just a distraction and a form of ignorance that we
usually don't talk about. There are some ignorant people in
our community, and for someone to put together a group
of folks to walk around downtown with mask on, let
you know, just like the old KKK with the mask on,

(17:26):
is that these are people that really are not brave
enough to stand about behind their conviction. No, they're not
more talk than anything else.

Speaker 9 (17:36):
So for me.

Speaker 8 (17:37):
At this age and stage of my life, I just
ignore that that that's like a distraction.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, yeah, I think they're feeling a lot more in
boldened although you know, to do this because they're their
man is there, uh, and they can do what they
want to do. And however criminal they are, as long
as it's in the name of him, Uh, they're they're good,
you know, like you know, letting them all out of jail,
you know, calling it a nice little walking through DC

(18:03):
and every everything else. So all of these groups have
have gotten the they've gotten not only a past, but
you know, don't pass gold. They have gotten uh you know,
praise uh.

Speaker 8 (18:14):
Right for lack of you. The term I think you
use was in bolden embolden.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yes, absolutely now. And I'm surprised that they're still wearing
black mask over their faces because they don't care. Doesn't matter.
You're going to get excused for whatever you do from
you know, here's.

Speaker 8 (18:32):
The dilemma with that. And I understand that. And that's
another thing about getting older. You understand some things. You
don't have to agree that you understand if by chance
you're a team leader or a bank manager, or a
salesman or an individual who works.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
That's true.

Speaker 8 (18:51):
You really don't want your constituents, your work friends, your
your best friend that that works right next to you
to know who you really are. Yeah, because in your
heart you truly are ashamed of who you are. You
drink drink or drunk that kool aid, and you're you're
really an insecure person who has not figured out how

(19:13):
to express themselves. And so you join these groups because
you don't have anything going on for you for yourself,
and so you join these groups to try to feel
like you are somebody. And that's really what it boils
down to.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah, you have an identity now when you felt
identity less, you know, you didn't feel like you didn't
have you know. Yeah, now you're a part of something.

Speaker 8 (19:34):
Yeah. Right, And it's no different when we talk about
some things that happen in our community where young folks
join join gang, so to speak. And it's a similar
scenario where I don't feel love in this area, so
let me join this group, club or organization to feel
wanted or loved. It's just that these people are are

(19:54):
in my opinion, my opinions, these people are ignorant as heck,
well what Thomas.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
I think there's another dimension to these idiots, and that
is they're professional victims. And I think they take that
cue also from the person sitting up there at sixteen hundred,
because he has taken that particular quirk or personality cright
to levels unknown to mankind ever before. I don't know, maybe,

(20:21):
but it's like I'll do what I want to do,
and I'll offend and step on everybody else, but don't
ever say anything to me because I'm a victim, you know,
I really people have been really picking on me, and
a lot of these people join these groups because they
feel like they've been victimized.

Speaker 8 (20:37):
If you think back to the fifties, and they're the
old saying and I say this on the Harumba Show
on a regular basis, Okay, I love old sayings and
one of the old things. If you don't know your history,
you're doomed to repeat it. And so if you go
back to the fifties, the sixties and fifties with very
gold Water, Oh was the Republican politician, Yeah, who was

(20:58):
one of the first ones. It started this scenario of
this victim thing that you're talking about. That's a divide
and conquered device that makes the least white person still
feel superior to the best black person. And because you
make them always feel like a victim, you can now

(21:20):
stoke those flames of hatred and keep this kind of
stuff going in our in our community.

Speaker 10 (21:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah, well, I just think more to be seen in
the coming day. As long as there was no problem
and they didn't cause any you know, disturbances if you will,
or uproars. I think we're we're okay. But I do
think Thomas, I maybe you don't see. I think we're
going to see a little bit more of this in
the days ahead.

Speaker 8 (21:47):
We could, but here's what I truly believe, and I don't.
When I see negative things, I stay away. So I
saw a picture and I didn't need to get any
details because the pictures worth a thousand words. Absolutely between
six and eight guys, maybe ten, they don't have the
numbers to even cause any problems. And if you remember

(22:08):
the big boat accident from a couple of years ago
where a group of guys tried to beat up one
black man.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Oh yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 8 (22:17):
Okay, that's the nature of where we are now. So
six guys downtown Indianapolis could not have caused a problem
because I truly believe, at this day and age, if
you come and do something crazy or ignorant, black folks
are gonna raise up.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yep, there you go.

Speaker 8 (22:37):
I think I think we are sick and tired of
being sick and tired.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Thank you. I knew you were gonna say that. If
you weren't, I was going to say it for you. Yeah, folks,
just say no, seriously, folks, you get it. Thomas because
you hear the feedback. I hear the feedback. You know,
we all hear it. People are just tired, tired of
being tired.

Speaker 8 (22:56):
And so here we're in a crossroads with a bunch
of insecure gentlemen that they don't know how to love
their fellow man, and so what they want to do.
The only thing they can do is hate and divide, hate, divide,
and so and that goes from from the White House
all the way to our governor's office. And you know,

(23:19):
you hate to be have to continue to call these
people out. But one of my common script lines also
is when I start lying, jumping and interrupting.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Okay, I like that one too. So Dr Brown has
been on this show several times and his point of
view is it's going to get worse before it gets better.
Is that sure? Is that how you see the situation now?
Or what are your thoughts?

Speaker 8 (23:48):
Doctor Brown has been telling me that for over ten
years that we've been doing that show, and I guess
that's his mantra, so to speak.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Okay, okay, But I.

Speaker 8 (23:58):
Believe that if by chance, we are able to get
some semblance of a consistent message out, I think that
generally speaking, people are good, And you've heard this phrase before.
There's just a handful of folks that mess it up
for everybody else always. But I also believe that people

(24:21):
are very uneducated, and because we don't know our history
and we don't know how some social issues come to
the front to the four to the forefront, because we
don't know that that we find ourselves in these precarious
situations where stuff is always crazy. But you know and

(24:42):
I know that if you can just sit down with
another human being and have a conversation, we have more
things in common that we have that are not But
as long as you can keep people in separate silos,
you can continue to tell the lies. This guy's going
to come and take your job. These people are taking

(25:02):
over your neighborhood. These people don't like you and you
shouldn't like them. As long as you continue to spout
that negative energy, then you're going to get those types
of individuals. Now, I do have a philosophy or a
theory that we can't overcome right now. But this is
what the problem is. He who controls the media controls

(25:24):
the narrative. And so until we have more shows like
Hours on Saturday morning and yours every day, and some
of the TV stations can pick up on some shows
that deal with these issues. The major television networks are
going to continue to put out false messaging and not
saying they're doing it viciously nor maliciously, but they're doing

(25:45):
it just the same, not realizing the effect it makes
on society.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
No, No, it's the bottom line is the dollar. They're
doing it to a pe, yeah, because most of them
it's the dollar. The bottom line is the dollar.

Speaker 8 (26:00):
The two things that we know sell in America sex
and violence. So on the newscast, I can't leave my
newscast off of sex, but I can always lead it
off with some controversy of vilence. Yeah, and by doing that,
then you frame or you create a picture or a narrative.

(26:20):
It may not even be true. But if I tell
a lie long enough, usually people to start believing that
is true.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
That is very true. And there's no bigger lie than
there's crime in d C. One of the biggest crimes
ever committed in d C was January sixth, and those
folks went to jail for trying to take over the Capitol,
trying to you know, steal an election, and they were
let out of jail. So but but there's there's crime

(26:51):
in DC. I mean they beat up, they killed, they
tore up, and that I don't know what you call that.
If it's not crime, I don't know what you call it.

Speaker 8 (27:00):
So then where is the responsibility? And I know things
have changed. And for folks that don't know, I got
hired at WTLC FM in nineteen seventy seven. Back when
I worked there, way back in the day, we had
a news department.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yes, you did award winning. Come on, now, let's let's
tell for what it really was. It was leading the
city in a wards year in year out with you know,
every journalistic organization that existed at the time, and you
know Gene Slaymaker, you know Wendell Ray, Kevin Bradley, all
of those folks, they were killing it. They were doing

(27:37):
the do exactly.

Speaker 8 (27:39):
So now that we don't have that consistently in our community,
I can put out a false narrative and there's no
one there to contradict me or to set the record straight.
So we can spew live or untruths or have truths,

(27:59):
and the public has to try to decide or figure
out what's what's right and what's wrong. Uh that the
guy on in the White House has one thing that
he did come up with that I do agree with,
and that is a lot of times what we put
out is fake news.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
I yeah, you and I'll have to talk about that.
I don't even like that terminology.

Speaker 8 (28:22):
Oh the term is terrible. But the reality is if
you think of our history in this country, when somebody
can tell you that the black community, the black men
are the worst fathers on the planet, not true. Black
people are lazy, not true.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Those are the visual images. Yeah, those are the images.

Speaker 8 (28:47):
But black people are more violent than any other race.

Speaker 9 (28:50):
Not true.

Speaker 8 (28:51):
And so if I keep saying that enough, then that
means that you have you've told me a lie. And
if you consistently tell me this lie, somebody gonn to
believe it.

Speaker 10 (29:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
True.

Speaker 8 (29:02):
Like you said, you don't like the term fake news,
but that's what it is. It's fake. It's not real.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah. Well that's like I said that that encompasses a
whole other dimension, Thomas, if you talk about you know
what it all applies to. I'm just saying in the
in the sense in which it was utilized and applied. Uh,
you know, Donald Trump, he was calling genuine re you know,
researched fact. He was calling fact fake news. And that's

(29:29):
the difference between what I know, what you're saying that, Yes,
we've all been fed a bill of goods regarding fact,
but when you call fact fact based, uh reality, when
you call that fake and tell, you know, tell somebody
that that is not real, you know, don't trust your
you know, the gas lighting fake news. To me, that
term is equivocated. I equivocate that with I equal, I

(29:53):
mean I I I consider that to be synonymous with gaslighting. Okay, Okay,
I consider fake news to be synonymous synonymous with gaslighting
because of who it came from and what he was
referencing and how it is applied.

Speaker 8 (30:08):
Okay, and I will accept that. But but I will
say this. If TV and radio stations would push back
when he makes statements like that, or stop covering him
when he tells lies that are blatant and everybody knows
that they are lives, we'd have a better situation. But

(30:29):
what they allow him to do is continue to save
those terms and continue to tell lies and never fact
check him to the point that if you don't know
any better, you're gonna believe it. Yeah, Yeah, there is
the biggest problem more than anything else I do.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
I don't think that they have ever learned how to
cover a an authoritarian. They've never They don't because they
keep using this this this age old oh what you
call it, this age old template? Well, is they're really
criming and then they start looking at it instead of
calling it for what it is. It's distraction crime in

(31:09):
d C. Yeah, you're going to guard the monuments because
that's where all the crime in DC is taking place. No,
it's theater. Call it for what it is. You can
do that, and you're you're not going to be in
trouble for saying this is political theater. He's not down
in the neighborhood. He's not putting those troops in the neighborhood.
For goodness, says they're guarding the Lincoln. I mean, anybody
with a half of a brain would see and could

(31:31):
call it that. But what they're doing is now the
history of crime in d C. No, they're playing it
straight down the line instead of calling it for what
it is and moving on. But you know, so, how
do you cover an authoritarian? You don't do it the
way that the most of them are doing it. You
don't do it that way, ye don't.

Speaker 8 (31:53):
They're in lives problem.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
They wouldn't do it for another for a foreign country,
they wouldn't cover it like that, So why are they
doing it here? So I would Yeah, it's.

Speaker 8 (32:02):
The media has done us a disturb it by not
being totally honest and forthcoming and realizing that certain things
are going to get them rating. And so at the
end of the day, what is more important in the
media in America today?

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Every quarter hour, every quarter hour, winning the quarter hour, Thomas,
That's what it's all about. Goosing the ratings, goosing those
those meters. You you get coverage in areas where you
have met, you know people, aren't you know, just just
like you say, educate yourself, look and see if they're
in if say, for instance, and I'm not gonna I'm

(32:41):
not gonna call out a particular media organization, but if
one of them is in let's say Noblesville, and they've
been in Noblesville, like acknowledge like Noblesville, why are they
covering every little thing that happens in Noblesville. There's a beasting,
as they used to say, and there's a beasting in Noblesville.
So everybody's covering it is because that's where some of

(33:02):
the meters are. And if they can get the meters
to turn to their channel from that particular area and
they can win that quarter hour, then they can tease
it and win to the It's all a money grab.

Speaker 8 (33:13):
So so what is wrong with our country? It's one word.
It's greed.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, so based on money,
truly it is. And you got to make money for
those stockholders or you don't have a job, so there
you go. But anyway, but yeah, it's it's deep, Thomas,
it really is. And we'll have to see. Uh there,
Oh goodness, gracious Thomas, Uh you're one of you. Does
Larry go on your show sometimes?

Speaker 11 (33:38):
Is he on your coming back?

Speaker 8 (33:41):
Full circle?

Speaker 2 (33:42):
He has a question for you.

Speaker 8 (33:44):
I don't have a problem with Larry, and I'll tell
you why.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
Okay.

Speaker 8 (33:47):
If I am controlling my radio show, it's up to
me to then allow him to have a contrary or
a contradictory opinion. Okay, but he tails a or a
lie boom my control to shut him down exactly.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
He has a quick question for you, Thomas. He has
a quick question for you. He called it and the
typically Larry anyway, go ahead, Larry, you have a question
for Thomas.

Speaker 9 (34:16):
I would just ask him. I know Rita told me
that I was permanently banned from your show. If you're
telling the truth, and you and Tom are telling the truth,
why don't you let somebody else pit what they feel like?
The truth is out there.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Because what you feel like that one thing?

Speaker 9 (34:32):
We got one thing ta one.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Go ahead.

Speaker 9 (34:35):
Now you talk about how the report Democrats are so good?

Speaker 8 (34:39):
What are the.

Speaker 9 (34:40):
Parts of the campaign is Thomas, do you believe that
man can have babies?

Speaker 8 (34:47):
Listen?

Speaker 9 (34:47):
Listen yes or no?

Speaker 5 (34:50):
Yes or know?

Speaker 8 (34:51):
One of the things that you do you make statements
that are not true, and.

Speaker 9 (34:55):
So which one? Which one is not true? For me
to which one?

Speaker 8 (35:00):
For me to banter back and forth with you on
an ignorant question is a way.

Speaker 9 (35:05):
It's not ignorant because you know that you can't back
up or affirm anything that you say on Tom Brown's show,
and you're protecting a bunch of foolishness. That's what you're
doing because you're foolish yourself, and you believe that men
can have babies.

Speaker 8 (35:19):
Right, So for me to banter back and forth with
you on an ignorant question just means that I'm stupid
like you are.

Speaker 9 (35:27):
So what I well to do.

Speaker 8 (35:29):
So what I allow you to do is to come
on our show and make a statement. When your stay
does not make sense, when your statement is derogatory, when
your statement is non productive.

Speaker 9 (35:41):
That's not on a thing that you will.

Speaker 8 (35:43):
I attempt have always talked to you, and so I
attempt to have a back and forth dialogue with you.

Speaker 9 (35:49):
But what you do.

Speaker 8 (35:50):
You tell stories and you tell lies and you tell.

Speaker 9 (35:53):
No, you're not on the same level.

Speaker 8 (35:56):
Problem when we try, that's what we try to cut
you off because every opportunity to make us on the
Harambe Radio show. But I'm fine, and you know what,
I never cut you off.

Speaker 9 (36:08):
Just you have You're not on the same level, Thomas,
the n elect as I am. That's why you got yourself.

Speaker 8 (36:17):
Those are the lies that you tell on a regular
baby mom.

Speaker 9 (36:20):
That's rider, that's day.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
But the bottom line, yeah, Larry, Larry, I tend to
agree with Thomas when you go off the rails and
start staying. You know, the last time that that you
were on this show, you said that Egypt was not
in Africa and then we're done. Well, we're done. It's
in Africa and that black people have never built anything,
and I said, what about the pyramids? And you you,

(36:43):
you know, you just went off the trail with that.
So if we can't establish a basic foundation that we're
both talking truth, we don't have to agree, but we
do have to talk in terms of what is truth
and what is fact. Now, those things we don't have
to agree on, Larry. But if we can't even get
to the truth of the matter before we start to
have a discussion, then there's no point in the discussion.
It's meaningless.

Speaker 9 (37:05):
Well, you don't want to see where you're bringing your
truth from. And I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
To go to Africa and see if you see Egypt there. Okay,
I don't know what you're talking about where I bring
it from, but I'm just saying a fundamental truth, like
you know, geography, something that fundamental. You can't say I
don't like that, So I'm going to say it's not there.
You can't say you look at as the.

Speaker 9 (37:26):
Phological evidence to see that.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Apple, Look a look at that, Larry.

Speaker 9 (37:32):
Well, I've got all kinds of apples in my library.
And you know, the thing about it is the thing
about it is Thomas. The black man has never.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Built anything in the position man has built everything.

Speaker 9 (37:46):
Understand the world, black man is what training he has?
He do not understand the world, and that's why he's
going to be by the.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
White black man built the capital a black man to
lead out the DC, which was then, uh, you know,
kind of a template for how the city of Indianapolis
has laid out. His name was Benjamin Larry. You know,
all right, thank you, Larry, appreciate your thanks. All right,
thank you, and I Thomas there you go.

Speaker 8 (38:15):
Well and see, you know, this is one of the
things that I was different from you, and maybe even
doctor Brown. I will always give somebody with a contrary
belief an opportunity or platform. But once you tell me
two lies in a row, why do I even continue
to entertain a conversation with you?

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Well that that's my point. I mean, that's my point.
If we can't even if we can't even agree on
simple geography, what do we get? Why are we even
gonna talk Because he's talking about that's his belief as
opposed to that's the fact. I mean, there is no
common grounder even to begin to establish a conversation. And
it's constant and consistent, and so yeah, go ahead, go ahead, Thomas.

Speaker 8 (38:59):
So the point that and I'm trying to make is,
once you established, Larry, these are the parameters that we
can work from. Once you show me you're going to
step outside of those parameters, then you are done. So
I'm not going to have a back and forth with
somebody that's ignorant. What I'm going to do is I'm
going to give you an opportunity, yeah.

Speaker 5 (39:18):
To make a point.

Speaker 8 (39:20):
If you make a point that you knowingly know is
a lie, then why would I continue to have a
conversation with you?

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Well, Thomas, would you just explained my history with Larry,
Because over the years that I've been doing this, I
can't tell you how many times that I begged him,
I've asked him, I've talked to him. We have led it,
you know, you know, I said, okay, let's take a
thirty day break, Okay, let's take a Okay, Larry, we're
gonna gonna let you back on. But when you go
off the rails of it, we can't, you know, we

(39:47):
can't communicate. I have been there, done that a thousand times.
Got the T shirt, warri it, washed it, put it
on again and try there is none. And I mean
I've been doing this show a little bit more than
five years now. That's exactly what you're talking about, is
exactly what I have been doing. And it gets to
the point where is the law of diminishing returns? He's

(40:08):
not gonna behave He's not going to stop going off
the rails as far as I'm concerned, so anyway, But
but I believe those opportunities have been given over and
over and over and over and over, and he more
than any other caller to this show, He's been given
I don't know how many opportunities to this show.

Speaker 8 (40:24):
And so the back and forth that we just had
today would not have gone that long on my.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Show because you were here. You were here. Yeah, he
wanted to talk to.

Speaker 8 (40:34):
Back right, the back and forth that that we would
that we just had. Once he starts telling untruth, I
just would have I would have been done, he called
back and love. But once you tell me or show
me you have violated the rule, you're done. You know
how many years once you violate the rule. And so
what I try to do is I tell him ahead

(40:55):
of time. There's another saying that I love be proactive
and not reacted. Yeah, so I'm going to lay out
the rules every time. Once you violate that trust, you're done.
And he called back another time. But anyway, but you.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
All are you all are once a week Thomas. You
guys are once a week on Saturdays. I'm every day.
And if you want your show to be about some ridiculous,
insane thing that he says every day, that's what you
can end up doing. And so that that's what you're
gonna end up doing. And we got so much more
stuff to do, uh than to entertain whether or not

(41:30):
he's going to go off the rails or not. So right,
But the one thing I will say, I think you
and I agree. He is an intelligent man. He is
an involved man in the community. He really is. Uh.
You know why he why he chooses to to do
what he does and say what he does. That's up
to him.

Speaker 8 (41:45):
So I have a theory on that too, Okay, go ahead.
You know how some some hurt people hurt people? Oh okay,
so if you have dealt with trauma in your life.
I don't know anything about their brother education, I don't
know anything about his upbringing, but obviously there's something missing

(42:05):
or wrong in existence that he has to always present
himself in a negative life. He is never, ever to
my knowledge, ever tried to say, can we find common grounds?

Speaker 2 (42:18):
No, no, no, no, no, no, that's that's not his
that gentleman.

Speaker 8 (42:22):
He always has something negative or contrary to say. And
so as a grown man of seventy one years, I
just recognize that there are people in the world that
are insecure and like that, and he needs probably a hug.
I don't know what his personal life is, his family life,

(42:44):
but there's something missing in that DNA that has to
doing these negative things. You know, hopefully he'll figure it
out before a judgment day.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Well, he was calling the shows before I got here
and probably on call shows. Yeah, there's good for him.
Thank you so much. And again for those the for
MS Carroll who wanted to know more about where the
event is going to be. It's this Saturday, August of
twenty third at Washington Park, correct exactly.

Speaker 8 (43:12):
They start at ten o'clock. They're going to do a
prayer visual or prayer Warrior or something. Started in ten
They said that'll be thirty minutes or maybe longer. I
don't know, but I do know that they want to
do some things that are going to reach out to
our community to energize the youth going back to school.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
All right, well, you know we got to have you
back on because we got to talk about and try
to get some I don't know some things going better
for our community. And everything starts with the conversation, so
we got to have it back to talk.

Speaker 9 (43:43):
So well, I would.

Speaker 8 (43:44):
Love to come on any time you need me because
I have some ideas on what you and I can
do and what Radio one could do. Oh the situation
that we're in right now, do.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Tell all right, well let's schedule that. And I got
your other message as well, so we'll schedule that as well.
So all right, Thomas, thank you so much, appreciate you.
All right, all right, lady, talk to you later and
again you can hear Thomas Griffin and the Reverend doctor
Andrew J. Brown every Saturday right here on AM thirteen
ten and ninety five point ONEFM Praise Indy with Harambe, Harambe,

(44:19):
Operation Bread Basket Presents Harambe. We'll be right back, got
some callers on the line. If you're there, stay there,
we'll get to you right after this break.

Speaker 12 (44:38):
Hey, family, Willie mo Junior. Here, hand your Boidey stone
and Monday is all about loving you more.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, we're gonna teach you how to do that.

Speaker 12 (44:45):
And if you have problems in the area of finance,
I got a person who's the person you're not thorty.
She's so calm with your delivery while she checks you.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Come on, somebody, listen.

Speaker 13 (44:57):
We want to make sure that you have all the
twos you need to make make sure that you are
equipped for the holiday season. It's coming up next time
on The Willie Mow Junior Show on Praise AM thirteen
ten ninety five point one FM.

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Speaker 1 (47:09):
Let's get back to the conversation. It's Community Connection with
Tina Cosby, brought to you by Child Advocates, a champion
for justice, opportunity and well being for children on phrase
Am thirteen ten ninety five point one FM.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
And we're back with Community Connection three p one seven
four eight zero thirteen ten. Still ahead. Freetown Village, the
Freetown Village Living History Museum, the Museum without Walls. They're
going to be here and the second hour, into the
second hour conversations in Indiana's African American history and culture.
The topic the subject matter this Thursday is going to

(47:46):
be Indiana Women's Prison History Project. I do believe we're
going to have I know we're going to have the
executive director of Freetown here with us. One maybe both
of the presenters are going to be with us as well.
So again that's still ahead on the show. Let's go
back to the phone lines. There's some folks that have
been waiting patiently. Greg, go ahead, how are you, Yes.

Speaker 7 (48:07):
Ma'am, I'll be quick, since I've been holding about fifty minutes.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Yeah, sorry about that.

Speaker 7 (48:13):
No, No, I know, I know I'm not supposed to
do this, but I know I'm not supposed to assow
shade on you know. But Larry comes from the same
organization of Pennel Castle Christ Temple, and I cannot believe
sometimes he embarrasses me. I mean, I just can't fathom.
I just can't wrap my head around him. But anyway,

(48:35):
so much for that. Well that's not what I called about.
But since I had to wait and listen to him
and suffer through that, I thought I would just perfect purfose.

Speaker 18 (48:44):
R.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
Larry is okay? You know now, go ahead, right?

Speaker 7 (48:49):
This is the gout for radio station, so you don't mind.
Testimony to you real quickly.

Speaker 9 (48:55):
Looking for you a right.

Speaker 7 (48:56):
I was looking for you over the weekend so I
could so I could meet your acquaintance.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
I was there yesterday. I was there yesterday well, and.

Speaker 7 (49:05):
I looked for you Saturday. I was in town from
Saint Louis.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
I ain't gonna say, I ain't gonna lie I don't
know you were No, No.

Speaker 7 (49:11):
You were at the you were at grand Health Center.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
And yes, I was at the health Yes, I was
at the health fair Saturday morning, I said, I had
I'm trying to remember everything I did this week, and
it was yes, the uh, the the Grande Grande Health Center.
They had their first community health fare uh. And it
was wonderful.

Speaker 19 (49:32):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
They had so much stuff there. It was warm, but
they had things inside and outside. Uh. In fact, a
lot of our stations. I did the ten to twelve
shift and then uh, I think it was JC and
UH and and Swift at noon to two. So yeah, yeah,
Thomas and Arlen Grande.

Speaker 7 (49:49):
I just miss you. Oh okay, because I heard about
it and that used to be ironically my clinic used
to be Part's Manor.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Oh okay, okay.

Speaker 7 (50:00):
And then I worked back in the day about twenty
years ago. I worked for Gratsey Creeker.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Yeah, Grassy Creek is further down the further down thirty eight,
so some of the Grassy Creek folks were there for
that for the community.

Speaker 7 (50:11):
I met him him so when I when I left,
they were just getting ready to matter of fact, last year,
I went to the grand opening for Grande, and this
year I just happened to be in town for the
first year anniversary. Okay, okay, when I missed you by
probably minutes. I came up to the booths and they
told me that she had left, and.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
So I because they had to get to another event.

Speaker 7 (50:35):
So I went and saw my primary care doctor. Because
if you know, the thirty eighth in German Art's manor
and the branch I don't remember what they called it
on twenty fifth and Arlington, they mergered and made that
into one branch. Yes, So I found my doctor, doctor
Roderick Ryan, who's you may know him. He's the anchor.
You know, every clinic has the anchor doctor, and he's

(50:57):
the main doctor that everybody goes through. I mean, he's
the man. And so when you saw me after so
many years, you know, during during the pandemic, uh, they
only had virtual visit, so I was only able to
talk to him and put him on speaker and my
wife listening. They tried to you know, and monitor my
health and and keep me on the planet, which was

(51:17):
real hard. To do. But I I almost dived from
from chrome's disease and then hold it on the operating
table from a heart attack four years ago. And he
looked at me like I was a goat and said,
are you you're the same man. I can't believe that
you're the same man that I used to see.

Speaker 9 (51:34):
M Wow wow hugging me.

Speaker 7 (51:39):
I mean, for your primary care doctors to tell you
that you're a walkin miracle. M. He just kept he
just kept hugging on me and hugging on me and saying,
I can't believe this is you. So I told him
when he comes out to Saint Louis, we'd hang out,
and he looked at me like I was Cat's with
a friendly ghost.

Speaker 9 (51:54):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 7 (51:57):
So I just want to give that testimonybody that's going
through something, if you're at the end of eu rope,
just trying out on it in.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
The hold on, hang on yep. I remember those posters
well and the saying uh is is is timeless. So
thank you, Greg, thank you very much, and I'm sorry
I kept missing you. But yeah, I was at the
fair last night. That was after I went to the
to the jazz guitarist thing. Earlier in the day to

(52:25):
check that out and to do a couple of other things.
I'm trying. It's all running together. There were there were
several things to do. But let's go back to the
phone lines. Mister Russell, how are you.

Speaker 8 (52:36):
Great?

Speaker 5 (52:37):
Show?

Speaker 10 (52:38):
Thank you?

Speaker 11 (52:39):
Um great? Uh about some of the craziness going on
uh in the world and uh r if you know?

Speaker 20 (52:55):
Uh?

Speaker 11 (52:58):
What can I say?

Speaker 2 (52:59):
But one time when mister Russell, you're breaking you're breaking up?
Can you when you get to another area you're breaking up?
Your your real staccato like like that you have me
better now? Yes, yes, I can, yes, absolutely, Okay.

Speaker 11 (53:13):
Well, back in the day, Larry was completely different outlook
in a lot of ways. So I always say Larry
has probably been hypnotized and doesn't know it.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Radical life. You think Larry's got good sense? I mean,
I know that tradictory when I say that you got
good sense, he's smart. You know what I mean?

Speaker 9 (53:37):
Absolutely?

Speaker 11 (53:39):
But like I said, I think you've been hypnotized by
the other sides. But the point, the point I guess
I also wanted to make is that everybody that you meet,
regardless of race, creed, or color, anybody that you meet,
you can learn from them, you know, And I think
people need to think about that, because there's always going

(54:04):
to in jelly in comparison, which is bad people comparing
each other. And I think this is one of the
problems that the human beings based wherever they are in
the world. I think that.

Speaker 7 (54:23):
When it comes to.

Speaker 11 (54:25):
Issues in government, if you remember the hearing about in
history the Lincoln Douglas.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Debates, Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 11 (54:35):
Okay in the eighteen hundreds. Well, you know, next year
it's going to be the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary
of the United States, So maybe we better go back
to having some debates between people like Larry's current position
and people have different positions. That probably would be people

(54:55):
might pay for that, you see that.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
I don't know, mister Russell, you got it. I think
we need a little bit better foundation than But yeah,
I see what you're saying.

Speaker 11 (55:05):
Though, you know, because there are a lot of radio
commentators that have a lot of influence across the country
and they unfortunately oppose the divide and conquer philosophy, and
maybe we need to think about having debates between people
of that ilk and people who have common since, in

(55:29):
my opinion, maybe people pay to see those in that
uh dynamic year, next year, years, you know, what.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Will depends on how dug in a lot of these
folks are in terms in terms of who would be
chosen to engage in these conversations, because some of them
are waste of time. You know, I can see how
some of them would be an absolute positive waste of
time because.

Speaker 11 (55:56):
Of Unfortunately there are people that are that don't know
the truth and they fall for that as we see
it's happening out of the White House for instance. And
uh but anyway, uh, maybe we got to be thinking
about next year and what could be done to celebrate

(56:16):
fifty years in the country. You know, we we almost
made it.

Speaker 9 (56:21):
Uh what was it?

Speaker 11 (56:24):
January sixth was about four years earlier than twenty fifty
years the anniversary before we had somebody break into the
to the.

Speaker 8 (56:33):
To the Capitol building.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Later, those those weren't criminals. Those were good old Americans
that we're doing that thing for Donald Trump, you know,
they say.

Speaker 11 (56:45):
Vijamin Franklin was asked Captain that the constitution was was
final Isaiah. Somebody asked him.

Speaker 9 (56:52):
What what what do we have?

Speaker 11 (56:54):
And he said a republic if you can keep it so.

Speaker 9 (56:57):
I don't know if we're keeping it. I don't know
if we're.

Speaker 11 (57:02):
Coming up next year. Maybe let us to think about
that and some some events to really uh.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Well, it's a thought, mister Russell. It's a thought, definitely
a good thought. All right, well, thank you, thank you
very much for your call. I appreciate it. I don't know,
I don't know. M food for thought. As always, we'll
be back with more community connection right after this.

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Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
WTOCAM W two three six c are Indianapolis discussing the
issues that mattered to you and keeping you informed with
what's happening in and around Indy. It's community connection with
Tina Cosby, Brought to you by Child advocates a champion
for justice, opportunity and well being for children on Praise

(01:00:33):
Am thirteen, ten ninety five point one FM.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
And we're back with Community Connection bottom of the hour. Uh,
Freetown Village is coming to join us. We're going to
be talking with them. We were catching up on a
couple of things that had taken place, you know, over
the weekend. Some of the things that we were talking
about that we did. You did some weddings and made
some of that cash. Cameron and I was just a

(01:00:58):
little bit all over the place, Uh, you know, doing
some some different things. Uh. The State Fair did wrap
and at barring that one dust stuff that they had
with the kids out there fighting, I think it couldn't
have gone better. I don't think they had any rainouts
or was.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
Definitely on their side. If you want to go to
the fairs weekend, they went out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Went out with a bang. So it was a good fair.

Speaker 25 (01:01:19):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
The the domino effect for the Indiana fever continues. Uh.
They've lost another player to injury. We're not sure if
it's for the rest of the year because her MRI
Sophie Cunningham U went down with the knee injury and
I tell you what it's like. One, two, three, I
have a ray of bright light for the fever.

Speaker 9 (01:01:39):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
I don't know if you consider this bright light. But
shout out to Kelsey Mitchell for breaking to Meka Catching's
record for the most thirty point games in franchise history.
My girls, I do think she deserves around apply.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
She's a baller. He's holding it down, putting the man
her back and keeping it goodly.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
And Stephanie White gave her flowers and said that, you know,
Kelsey unexpected because I didn't expect that she would do
it so quickly. Has, like you just said, put the
team on her back and it's continuing to fight the
good fight for the rest of the season.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
She really does. Also wanted to remind everybody we had
a couple of inquiries into the big event in Washington
Park this Saturday. But tonight is the first of several
as utility rate hike public hearings where you can go
and make your voices heard tonight Monday eight eighteen the
Indianapolis Public Library West Perry Branch, that is six sixty

(01:02:32):
five zero South Harding Street again six six five zero
South Harding Street in the community room. The meeting starts
at six pm. In fact, all of the upcoming meetings
are going to start at six pm. If you want
to submit written comment through nine to two through September. Second,

(01:02:52):
you can go online and go to I in dot
gov slash, O UCC slash contact dash US. Oh you
c c slash contact dash us. The complete address again,
I N dot gov slash O U c c slash

(01:03:18):
contact dash us Again. That's if you want to submit
your written comment if you cannot make any of the
scheduled four meetings in person. But yeah, this is something
that is very, very important because if high utility bills
aren't enough, AES is asking for a raid hike, a

(01:03:39):
two year raid hike, so that would probably put having
electricity out of reach for some of us. I'm telling
you based on some of the stories we heard the
other day, but the first meeting to make your voice
heard is tonight. Be loud and be proud tell them
Monday eight eighteen, Indianapolis Public Library West Perry Branches on

(01:04:00):
the south side sixty six five zero South Harding Street
in the community room. Let's go back to the phone
line three one, seven, four, eight zero, thirteen ten three one, seven, four, eight, zero,
thirteen ten, Ron, go ahead, how are you five?

Speaker 10 (01:04:15):
Tina? I am will and I hope you are too.
As a matter of fact, I wish I had been
off because I live up the street from thirty eighth
and Arlington. I would be like to have said hello.
But that's not the reason for my call today. My
call today is I want my friend Larry to speak
his mind every time he gets a chance, just as
as you all say sometimes chill chill out it a

(01:04:37):
little bit, and my friend made him. I also want
him to speak his mind as often as he would like,
and I hope that he calls. This showed a little
bit more of Saturday. Yeah, on Saturday, he calls unity
in the community, and he was concerned about when you
get when we get a terribly upset with the fourteen

(01:04:59):
year old kids shoots another person, but we seem to
cheer on a black woman who wants to be president,
who wants babies to be aborted. He also commented that
we should take care of ourselves because we are probably
as much of a problem as whoever else might be

(01:05:19):
considered part of the problem. In the thought that when
a baby should be in the safest.

Speaker 9 (01:05:25):
Place in the world in its brother's room.

Speaker 10 (01:05:27):
We pay people to go in and kill babies, but
yet if a fourteen year old shoots somebody, we are terribly,
terribly upset over that. There's something that seems to be wrong.
If you can kill them in the wound, well, why
are we so upset about letting a fourteen year old
kill them just because they got a gun. Actually, we

(01:05:50):
pay doctors to determinate pregnancy. But we don't like the
word abortion, but that is exactly what it is, and
the killing and taking that life. But there are those
of us who don't believe that that's what it is.
We call it whatever, we call it a medical problem,
but it is what it is. I wish Larry would

(01:06:13):
continue to call, and I'm speaking my friend Mayhem. Please
continue to call. And I wish you would call it
Tina's show, because you speak to a lot more people
than you do on music Team the community with pssor Jackson. Tina,
those are my thoughts. And to my brothers and sisters
in Christ, love God with all your hearts and all
this straight love your neighbor as yourself. I wish it
do all the best teath that you too.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Can thank you appreciate that.

Speaker 10 (01:06:36):
Ron.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
I think that that the point that you know, Ron
just made regarding and I don't really want to get
into it too deeply, but I don't see the equivalency
of a fourteen year old shooting and killing somebody downtown
with a woman not having a say so over what
happens to her body. I think, you know, if she

(01:07:01):
chooses abortion or if she doesn't choose abortion, that should
be her choice. The choice is what the whole argument
is about. It's not about whether or not someone goes
through with that particular procedure. It's the ability to say
I do or I don't. That's the difference. That is
the difference. And I really don't like the conflation or

(01:07:24):
the false equivalencies that people make regarding that women should
have rights over their bodies just like men should have
rights over their bodies. I you know, I don't understand
how men continue to get off so scott free in
all of these conversations, because, you know, the lashes of

(01:07:47):
what they say, the forty lashes or the whip is
always taken to the woman. And maybe that's a mindset
because I am a woman. I don't know. I just
don't see it. I mean, why should men tell women
what they can do with their bodies, whether they choose
to have an abortion or that's between them and God. Okay,

(01:08:07):
that's between them and God. But at least have the option,
just like a man has the option. Right, man has
the option to exercise birth control or not? Does he not? Right?
Does he not? I mean, he can go to the
drug store and buy you know, whatever kind or you
know color. He can do that. That's his choice. What

(01:08:30):
if that choice is taken away from that man doesn't
have anything to do with So again, I don't want
to get too deeply into it, but I don't accept
the false equivalency there. I just can't quite get to that.
But there we go with that one. But anyhow, we
have another run on the line. Go ahead, Ron, how
are you? I'm ok, I'm good. Thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:08:56):
I would I would just like to say and reference
to the other caller, Uh, basically, and like you said,
that's a that's that's a false equivalency. Here's a really
here's a truth. Okay, you'll go out here and bomb

(01:09:17):
abortion centers and so on and so on, and you
will say same even though it's a woman's choice. But
you'll starve that child, or you'll take food off that
child's tape.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Yeah, won't pay for medical care for the child, take
the you know, take medicaid away from them. And you know,
oh yeah, all that the hypocrisy is is just mind
blowing men thinking.

Speaker 5 (01:09:40):
That they can control a woman's body. Okay, if you
took ten men that are abortion advocates, okay that that
are just abortion and you line them up and said, Okay,
what we're gonna do is we're gonna give you you
ten aseeconomy, Let's see how many of them stand for that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Yeah, I appreciate that, ron And that's part of what
I was saying too.

Speaker 8 (01:10:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
It's all women don't get pregnant by themselves, they just don't.
And yet and still all uh you know, birth control.
You know, there's no pill for the man. There's there's
no uh you know, all of these other things are
for the way. So again, I don't want to get
too deep into that because it gets uh, it gets crazy,
and I don't want to you know, get into anybody's

(01:10:26):
beliefs or what have you, and all the other things.
I'm just saying, if you're going to equivocate, make it
a don't make it a false one. Okay, Uh, don't
make it a false one. That's all. So the again,
the AES utility rate hike public hearings start tonight.

Speaker 26 (01:10:46):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
And if you have been getting your power bills for
the month of August, as so many of our callers
did last week, and the horror stories they shared were
absolutely frightening.

Speaker 24 (01:10:58):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Those stories I shared with the office of State Representative
Cherish Prior. I shared them with Cherish Prior herself because she,
you know, she responded to me and said that that's
why she wants everyone who can try to make one
of these meetings. There's one on the south side, which
is tonight, one on the northwest side, which is a

(01:11:20):
week from tonight. They're all on These two are on Monday.
There's one on Shelby Street, which is you know, kind
of southeast southwest southeast, and then there's one east northeast
out at Fort Harrison. So the first is tonight, eight eighteen,
The second is a week from today at New Augusta

(01:11:42):
North Public Academy, sixty four to fifty Rodabah Road. The
third one is Thursday, eight twenty one. The twenty first,
and that's on the Southeast Services Community Centers Southeast Community Services,
nine oh one Shelby Street in the auditorium. And the
final one is Wednesday, eight twenty seven at the forty

(01:12:03):
Event Center at Fort Harrison State Park, six to two
North Post Road in the Blue Heron Ballroom, And every
one of these meetings is going to start at six o'clock.
You are encouraged to speak your mind and share with
the Commission, the Indiana Utility Regulatory Commission, what your thoughts
are on the requested rate hike by the utility company,

(01:12:27):
the power company, as it's I think it's outrageous. I
think it's out of line. I think it's completely out
of control. The sad part about that is it's kind
of a monopoly, so they can kind of do what
they want to do. But it's up to you and
the consumer and the Utility Regulatory Commission to moderate that

(01:12:49):
as much as possible and make sure that they don't
get out of control. Money for poor equipment, And as
a friend of mine pointed out this morning, if their
equipment is poor and needs repair, why not write that
into your annual budget for equipment repair. It's certainly a
respectable or reasonable line item, but you know a line

(01:13:10):
item budget, yeah, budget request, you'll put it in your
budget replacing material. Now, the easiest thing in the world
for these utilities to do is to pass along the
cost to consumers. They don't have to get creative with
how they're going to finance it. They don't have to
make it a line item in their annual budget or
their annual budget request. The easiest thing is just say, hey,

(01:13:32):
we'll pass along to consumers. Therefore, if they do that,
they don't have to worry about their corporate bonuses and
corporate perks and you know how they take care of
their CEOs the C suite in general. They can continue
to do that. Nobody's going to question that. So that's
one of the easiest things to do. So one of

(01:13:52):
the easiest things and the best, you know, tool that
we as consumers have is our voice, our voices. So
we have to make sure that we do that. So again,
tonight is the first six o'clock uh West Perry Branch
of the Indianapolis Public Library, sixty six fifty South Harding
Street in the Community Room three one seven, four eight

(01:14:14):
zero thirteen ten three one seven four eight zero thirteen ten. Uh, Sam,
go ahead. How are you, Peter?

Speaker 9 (01:14:22):
How are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
I'm doing good? Thank you?

Speaker 9 (01:14:25):
All right?

Speaker 25 (01:14:26):
Did you look at the website, Peter, bless your heart?

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
Which website?

Speaker 27 (01:14:32):
The one about a solution to a high cost of
our electric bill?

Speaker 25 (01:14:39):
The one that Camera gave you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
Cameron hasn't given it. Cameron has not given me that.
Did he tell you he gave it to me? Yes, no,
he has not. I don't want to call it my
brother out, but I have yet to receive it now
and uh, Cameron, Cameron can text me, you knows. Let
me let me text him right now. Okay, I'm gonna

(01:15:03):
text him right now. Sam, Okay, okay, but no he
has not now, bless his little hard Yeah, so, uh
let me see like Cameron, I'm teking. I'm texting him now.
Can you please text me the website? Caller Sam yep

(01:15:29):
wants me to see.

Speaker 9 (01:15:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 25 (01:15:32):
Once you see that website back in the solution so
our pot call I would like to be and if
the community.

Speaker 27 (01:15:43):
To come together, we can put a hurt to a.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
And a yes and Duke, Yeah, okay, I just sent
it to him. I just now sent it to him. Uh.
So I wow. Okay, so this is the solution. Who
came up with a solution, who came up with that?

Speaker 25 (01:16:03):
Matter of fact, a gentleman.

Speaker 7 (01:16:05):
I did California. Matter of fact, he did seat me
over the company.

Speaker 27 (01:16:09):
And I would talk to him yesterday and he would
give me the rundown. And Tina, it is unbelievable how
we could save so much money by coming off to
gred never have to worry about another blackout and never
have to worry about another increase.

Speaker 25 (01:16:32):
It is unbelievable. And you got an opportunity to invest
into the company.

Speaker 5 (01:16:38):
Did you want to?

Speaker 7 (01:16:40):
That?

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
Is that Salmon? Sounds almost like a pyramid scheme or
about That's.

Speaker 25 (01:16:45):
Why I want you to look at the website.

Speaker 5 (01:16:48):
I want you to do your homework, Tina.

Speaker 20 (01:16:50):
And then.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
Okay, I'll do I don't mind homework. I'm stilling with you.

Speaker 8 (01:16:56):
I'm Cautina.

Speaker 27 (01:16:58):
You have a lot of follows, Okay, people will follow you.

Speaker 25 (01:17:03):
It's like people following Donald Trump.

Speaker 8 (01:17:06):
People follow you just like that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
Now you're making me chilling.

Speaker 28 (01:17:13):
So once you see okay, and you playing it back
to your unit community or the other one connecting their communities,
Fever's gonna love you and they gonna say peta Peeter
teena s thank you, thank you, thinking well, how long.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
Is how long has this solution been out there?

Speaker 25 (01:17:30):
This is what you've been out there for about four years, okay,
and it just came to the market about a year
and a half ago. And I'm getting one.

Speaker 27 (01:17:42):
Of those units, okay, because I'm telling you the money
that they're saving me because when I called in last week,
I didn't give you my rundown.

Speaker 8 (01:17:54):
One month my life.

Speaker 7 (01:17:55):
Bill was left.

Speaker 11 (01:17:57):
The bill was one hundred seventy two dollars.

Speaker 27 (01:18:00):
Next month, that's that thing came, but six hundred and
thirty four dollars.

Speaker 8 (01:18:04):
I told my wife, I said, honey, just say it is.

Speaker 11 (01:18:08):
I just have to make anybody go off.

Speaker 25 (01:18:12):
It's ridiculous.

Speaker 27 (01:18:13):
So I cause the light come to say it because
you got to come back out and check my media.
They came out yet, and they probably won't come out okay,
because they know they're wrong.

Speaker 5 (01:18:25):
They told they're wrong.

Speaker 27 (01:18:27):
Nobody wills he'll be that high in one month, nobody.
And then one guy was telling me, he said, well,
maybe they're not sending it out.

Speaker 25 (01:18:34):
Maybe the AI had spended it out.

Speaker 7 (01:18:37):
Mm hm.

Speaker 11 (01:18:38):
I got to thinking about that.

Speaker 6 (01:18:40):
So I'm looking at all.

Speaker 8 (01:18:43):
Right, forget it. I'll go on and pay it.

Speaker 27 (01:18:46):
But I'll tell you what, within the next ninety days,
I would be off degree.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Okay, okay, all right, Sam, I appreciate it, and thank you.
And yeah, Cameron and I exchanged numbers and information and
sources and things that not sources, but you know, information
that can help with what we do. But maybe he

(01:19:13):
and and you know what, he may have sent it
somewhere that I don't know that he sent it, but
he hasn't texted to me, Samu And so I'll just
I'll just look it up. If he hasn't gotten it
to me, I'll look it up later. Okay, we'll do
that one thing before we get to Freetown. Let's see,

(01:19:35):
I just wanted you to know a little bit more
about the Nazi march through downtown Indianapolis. In case you
haven't heard, we talked about it last hour. A hate
group march through the streets of downtown Indianapolis on Saturday
and apparently did so without prior notice to law enforcement,

(01:19:56):
which scrambled and and took care of it. But this
I just want to let you know how it was
reported by one of our local stations. That being I
do believe it was wish TV. Was wish TV. Let's
take a listen.

Speaker 29 (01:20:13):
Chief of Police on the head of the Indianapolis Fraternal
Order of Police, responding to a viral video of a
Nazi rally held downtown this weekend. Now, we've made the
decision to not show the video to you here, but
in it you can see that about a dozen men
dressed head to toe in all black. They carried swastika flags,

(01:20:35):
chanted white power, and marched around doing the Hitler salute.
Now some even carried assault rifles. Chief Bailing writing on
X tonight that IMPD closely monitored that demonstration, but says, quote,
safeguarding First Amendment rights, even for those whose views we
find reprehensible, is a responsibility we take seriously. But let

(01:20:58):
me be clear, protecting those rights is not an endorsement
of those beliefs, Not now, not ever. Again, that's the
chief there now. FOP President Rick Snyder responding, saying police
officers throughout Indianapolis remain focused on safety community wide and
are standing the line for all law abiding persons. We
are confident in the direction from impd's Chief of Police

(01:21:21):
that anyone who acts with evil intent to be a
criminal behavior or violence will be met with the full enforcement.

Speaker 2 (01:21:30):
Yeah, so I just wanted you to know in case
you didn't know. And it is a balancing act because
they do, whether we like it or not, have First
Amendment freedom of expression, but police have a responsibility to
make sure that things do not get out of hand
based on the fact that it's you know, yeah, they

(01:21:53):
you know they yes.

Speaker 30 (01:21:57):
It's one of those things.

Speaker 3 (01:21:57):
Was like, well the first amend I see if jeez,
and as a like a safeguard.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Well, not a safeguard, it's it's a it's a parameter
that they have to respect, right it would before springing
into action to do whatever. But they're provocative. It's provocative.
It's a provocative move. And so what the police department's
position is is to make sure that none of the
provocations get into breaking the laws. So again it's a

(01:22:25):
delicate balance to strike a balancing act that that law
enforcement all over the country probably have to do on
the regular. But nothing happened. They showed who they were,
like Thomas said, that cowardly with masks and stuff like that.
So we'll just have to keep an eye on it.
I think We'll probably see more of these in the

(01:22:47):
days to come. I could be wrong, but yeah, that's
that's where it is. Anyway, Freetown Village is coming up.
We're going to take a quick break right here and
get back to that. Another one of their conversations in
Indie Bana's African American history. It's always fascinating and it's
always free, free, free, free, free, free, my favorite four
little word. I'll be back with more right after this.

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Let's get back to the conversation. It's Community Connection with
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Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
And we are back with Community Connection. We're talking this
segment with the Freetown Village Living History Museum. They are
continuing with their conversations in Indiana's African American history. The
next event is going to be this Thursday, August twenty first,
from six to seven. It's free Indiana Landmarks, twelve oh
one Central Avenue and the topic is going to be

(01:29:06):
Indiana Women's Prison History Project. I am fascinated by that.
I've done some women's prison stories throughout the course of
my career. Didn't know Indiana had some history there. So
we're going to find out a little bit more about
that here with us now, Stanley Dumournat. He is the
executive director of Freetown Village. Welcome back, Welcome back. And

(01:29:29):
you brought some friends with you, you brought guests.

Speaker 30 (01:29:31):
Yeah, I brought some very special individuals. We're going to
tell us about a topic that maybe most of us
are unaware of, but very exciting. So we have doctor
Jones with us and doctor Nelson.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
Yes, and both of you are going to be presenting
at the event. Correct, that's all right, all right, Well,
do tell what is it? I don't even know where
to start to ask the question.

Speaker 37 (01:29:55):
Yeah, okay, So yeah, this is doctor Elizabeth Nelson and
the Indiana Women's Prison History Project is a group of scholars.
These are all women that were either incarcerated at the
Indiana Women's Prison prior or are still incarcerated there that
are part of a collective that research Indiana history and

(01:30:20):
specifically the incarceration of women in Indiana. And this is
a project that stretches back to about twenty fourteen or
twenty fifteen and was founded by my colleague here Michelle,
doctor Daniel Jones, and others at the prison, and it
culminated in twenty twenty three with the publication of the

(01:30:43):
book Who would Believe a Prisoner Indiana Women's Incarceral Institutions.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
Who wrote that one?

Speaker 37 (01:30:50):
So there are ten authors authors, oh, all currently and
formally incarcerated women, and Michelle and I were co editors
of that volume.

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
Gratulations. Yeah, congratulations. So so the some of the the
the contributors to the book are either currently or formally
incarcerated women. That's here in the state of Indiana. Yes,
so a brief background, What is the history of women
in prison in the state of Indiana.

Speaker 7 (01:31:20):
Oh?

Speaker 26 (01:31:20):
Wow, that's extensive background.

Speaker 38 (01:31:23):
Well, I think it's important to say that the very
first prison public prisons, separate prison for women in the
United States was built right here in Indianapolis.

Speaker 2 (01:31:32):
Indians Oh no, All Roads, North Randolph. Yes, yes, I've
been over there several times.

Speaker 38 (01:31:38):
That at the time was considered the outskirts of town,
and the prison was placed away from the center city.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
Yeah, it was just on the other side of the
Arsenal right in Arsenal Tech High School. Now is there
so place? Yeah, part pardon where it was placed? Yeah?
Was that deliberate to put it out there by the
by the military base that.

Speaker 26 (01:31:57):
Was absolutely deliberate.

Speaker 38 (01:31:58):
In fact, there are tunnels on beneath the Indiana Women's
Prison that connects to Arsenal Technolow Technical High School.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
Excuse me, still still often.

Speaker 26 (01:32:06):
Well, you can go down there.

Speaker 38 (01:32:08):
I've actually been down there, but I don't know how
if how much damage has happened across through the whole
tunnel system.

Speaker 26 (01:32:14):
But we used to have to go down there and clean.

Speaker 10 (01:32:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:17):
Oh okay, so you're saying that the first Now give
me that history again. The first women the first public.

Speaker 38 (01:32:24):
Prison for women in the United States was right here
in Indianapolis, Indiana. It opened up in eighteen seventy three.
It came about because women were allowed to be sentenced
to a men's prison up until eighteen forty eight, and
in eighteen forty eight, I'm sorry. Prior to that, women's

(01:32:45):
stayed in jails. But in eighteen forty eight, Jeffersonville Prison
they they changed the rule and incarcerated and women who
went to jails, who were remanded either to some sort
of incarceration situation, came to the Jeffersonville Prison and they
had a separate dorm for women called the Female Department,
and women were incarcerated in there for months at a time.

(01:33:10):
And what pushed the state to create a separate facility
for women was because guards and officers and wardens were
sexually exploiting, sexually abusing, and there so there were babies
being born in the female department, and so some reformers,
prison reformers rotakoffin Sarah Smith and her and their husbands

(01:33:35):
really pushed the governor at the time to investigate, and
the result was a separate prison for women here in Indianapolis.

Speaker 2 (01:33:44):
And speaking of separate and separation, there was a separate
prison for women. Okay, now let's get past, we get
past the gin. Was there a separate within the prison?
Was there a separation of black and white? We had
eighteen seventy three, I mean.

Speaker 38 (01:33:59):
Right, and you know, segregation was active. What we saw
was a separation and duties and labor. Oh, we saw
a lot of that. We saw white women able to
use the Saian machines and work at the vocational skill
and we have a photo of a black woman in
the back of the room reading the Bible.

Speaker 26 (01:34:17):
Why the white women worked at the machines.

Speaker 38 (01:34:19):
So this is the division of labor, and it was
probably most likely division of rooming sleeping in the bedroom.

Speaker 2 (01:34:26):
That's what I was wondering.

Speaker 38 (01:34:27):
Yeah, it was likely, but we didn't actually find hardcore
evidence about that.

Speaker 2 (01:34:31):
Yeah. Yeah, so still a hierarchy even in prison between
black and white. You know, the hierarchy even today, Well yeah,
even today really explained today.

Speaker 38 (01:34:43):
Yeah, I think that throughout my incarceration, I saw multiple,
multiple instances where white women had all the clerk positions
and the jobs that paid more money than black girls.

Speaker 2 (01:34:57):
So you think that's been institutionalized from you know, from
the very Oh absolutely So.

Speaker 38 (01:35:01):
How long is until the seventies that black people could
work for corrections at all?

Speaker 9 (01:35:06):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:35:07):
So, how were you ever at four one Randolph or yeah,
you were?

Speaker 26 (01:35:10):
I did the most of my time there.

Speaker 2 (01:35:12):
How long were you there?

Speaker 38 (01:35:13):
So?

Speaker 26 (01:35:13):
I did a total of twenty years?

Speaker 38 (01:35:15):
And we and when the Indian Women's Prison moved from
for a one North Randolph to where they are located
now on the northwest.

Speaker 26 (01:35:22):
Side of the southwest side, I've been Davis.

Speaker 38 (01:35:27):
That is west. This is straight west, just west of
the downtown. I spent the bulk of my time on Randolph.

Speaker 26 (01:35:38):
On Randolph.

Speaker 2 (01:35:38):
Yeah, when did they close Randolph?

Speaker 26 (01:35:41):
They closed it.

Speaker 38 (01:35:43):
They tried to rehabit and use it for as an
intake center for men and boys, and it only lasts.

Speaker 26 (01:35:50):
A couple of years before they closed.

Speaker 38 (01:35:52):
So we came, we moved in twenty ten, and I
didn't think I don't think it made it to twenty fourteen.

Speaker 2 (01:36:00):
So what any findings that it within this research that
you have you've compiled, There were there any findings that
you did not experience yourself that you were kind of
surprised to learn, Okay, because there's so many, oh so

(01:36:22):
some that stuck out to some of that stuck out.

Speaker 38 (01:36:24):
First of all, we learned the history that after the
Civil War there were bands of women following soldiers and
some of them were sex workers. And when the war
was over, those men marched to back to Center City,
back to Indiana, and those caravans of women. Prisons were literally,

(01:36:45):
jails were literally homes were literally created to incarcerate them.
So the Home for Friendless Women in Richmond, Indiana, the
Home for Friendless Women in Indianapolis, the Indiana Women's Prison,
the Magdalene Laundries, all of these were institutions that came
into being within two years of each other, all to incarcerate.

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
Women, Doctor Nelson, We have women historically been incarcerated at
lower rates than men. And if so, women in general were,
and we're black women incarcerated at higher rates than white
women or men.

Speaker 37 (01:37:22):
So Okay, that's a complicated question, but I would answer
that by saying Black women have always been incarcerated at
higher rates than their population, no different portions, right, disproportionately,
that's the word I'm looking for. Women have traditionally been

(01:37:43):
incarcerated at much lower rates than men. However, in the past,
and this is leveling off a bit in the past decade.

Speaker 26 (01:37:51):
But from I want to.

Speaker 37 (01:37:53):
Say, gosh, the nineteen nineties two thousands or so, you
see a skyrocketing rate of women's incarceration during that time.

Speaker 2 (01:38:03):
Yeah, yeah, And so so Stanley, what have you? I mean,
you come in with the best topics, you know every
so often with these conversations. What is your you know,
what are your thoughts about this one that's that's coming up.

Speaker 30 (01:38:19):
That's a good question. I feel very curious, but intimidated
at the second time, because it's not a topic that
I'm very familiar with.

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 30 (01:38:30):
Yeah, And to see this wealth of knowledge, and some
of it rooted in personal experience, I think our the
participants on Thursday are going to be blown away by this,
by this topic, and so I really have to give
credit to our program director, Marya, who's not here, because
she's the one who, in working with doctor Etien, come

(01:38:53):
up with different topics, and so I can't take credit
for picking this this incredible topic that we're going to
hear on Thursday.

Speaker 2 (01:39:01):
Yeah, yeah, indeed, what is it that you two would
like most to share or most to focus on during
this conversation because you only have an hour and a
half so and not to make There'll be the live
element and then the online element is still going to
be available as roughly.

Speaker 30 (01:39:19):
So doors will open up five thirty. People can come
in studying at five thirty. The presentation will begin at six.
There's also a hybrid component people can join online, and
then we try to schedule it in such a way
where the lecturers will speak for roughly forty five minutes
to an hour, and then there's also a Q and
a section to follow because people want to know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:42):
More, Yeah, and I want to find it. We have
a caller that has a question for you, and I
certainly want to get that. Let's go to the caller first, Pierre,
go ahead, how are you.

Speaker 8 (01:39:52):
Hey? I'm sorry, Tina, I thought y'all were doing open lines.
I'll call back tomorrow because I had a good.

Speaker 9 (01:39:58):
Question I wanted to bring up.

Speaker 2 (01:40:00):
Oh okay, it wasn't about the topic we're talking about now. No, no, okay,
all right here. Well, you know, the lines are always
open for you whenever we open them up. So thank
you for that. So the significance and the relevance of
what you are presenting Thursday, And I guess the question
is what should the community know and why should the

(01:40:20):
community care about this? Why should the community get involved?

Speaker 38 (01:40:23):
So I'm going to give my speel about it. I
think it's important because at a time in history when
the approach to dealing with women in crisis, right, it's
at the end of the Civil War, a lot of
men and women. Men were gone, brothers, husbands, property owners,
and women could not own property. And so there was

(01:40:43):
a bunch of hundreds of displaced women right who had
to figure out how to survive.

Speaker 26 (01:40:49):
And some of those folks survived through.

Speaker 38 (01:40:52):
Doing sex works, theft, receiving and borrowing property. They did
a lot of different things to make it because they
did not have access to resources. They were in crisis,
and what I want to what I want people to
understand is that the early formation of the consciousness of
how to incarcerate women was built around this moment of

(01:41:14):
crisis for them, and the red threads on how they
decided how to incarcerate is still being played out today,
where in some states women are losing their sexual right
to sexual reproduction because they're being incarcerated so long, or
they're being actively sterilized, or they're losing I went to

(01:41:36):
a prison I'm not going to say which one recently,
and I saw a lot of women who were missing
their teeth because they're just simply pulling teeth instead of
trying to do preventative care so that people can keep
their keep their health. So this red thread about the
ways on which we look at people who come in
contact with the criminal justice system is one that starts

(01:41:56):
in debians and stays in debians and doesn't redeem women.

Speaker 26 (01:42:00):
So women have to do it ourselves.

Speaker 38 (01:42:03):
And that's what a lot of the stories in the
book about about women resisting, organizing and speaking up for
themselves in systems that would normally silence them.

Speaker 2 (01:42:14):
Yeah, doctor Nelson, you were I could tell you were
wanting to weigh it.

Speaker 37 (01:42:17):
On that go, oh sure, yeah, I would just you know,
I think about the significance of the of the of
the work and what I'd like people to know about
it and take away and from it in a couple
of ways. One is the findings of the research itself.
So this history which does have so much I think
relevance today in terms of these questions about how we

(01:42:39):
treat people who have been convicted of a crime and
how harmful these systems are for those who get caught
up in them, and that that harm, that violence goes
back to the very very beginnings. And so that I
think was some of the most compelling findings And what
I think drove you all as you were researching was.

Speaker 26 (01:43:01):
See ourselves in those stories, right exactly.

Speaker 37 (01:43:05):
But the second is, you know, so I'm an educator.
I'm a professor at Indiana University, Indianapolis, and I was
invited to be part of this project to help kind
of shepherd the project forward and work with each of
the students inside the prison to publish their their findings.
And so there's another layer to this which is higher

(01:43:28):
higher education and the in a prison context. And I
think this project really demonstrates the possibilities when you provide
educational opportunities in these spaces. And I just want to,
you know, point to uh, doctor Daniel Jones sitting next
to me, who just was awarded her pH d from

(01:43:52):
New York University and the.

Speaker 2 (01:43:54):
Ingratulation, How long ago was this? May? Oh wow, real recent?
Well congratulates relations that is fantastic. How long how long
have you been studying towards your doctorate?

Speaker 8 (01:44:04):
Right?

Speaker 38 (01:44:04):
So I got out of prison in August of twenty
seventeen and class started the later part of.

Speaker 26 (01:44:11):
That month in twenty seventeen, So.

Speaker 2 (01:44:12):
Did you complete your education college? And I don't know
about high.

Speaker 38 (01:44:17):
School, but I was able to get my bachelor my
associates bachelor's degree while incarcerated, okay, And so I was
able to get out and go into a program that
allows you to get your master's degree along the way.
And I got out in August twenty seventeen. I moved
immediately to New York. I didn't know anybody, and I
started my life completely over and fresh and walked through

(01:44:38):
my doctoral program.

Speaker 26 (01:44:39):
And then COVID hit.

Speaker 38 (01:44:41):
And so we all had to you know, everyone kind
of went finished online and when the city, the states
were all locked down. I couldn't do my research. So
my program, which was five years, got extended to six years.

Speaker 2 (01:44:55):
Okay, well you know.

Speaker 26 (01:44:56):
Yeah, yeah, I'm actually very I grateful for that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:01):
I have a question. My sister, just like weeks ago,
retired from women's prison here, low security Women's prison, and
she had a constant complaint. She taught in Madison, and
she I think you have to be between I think, boy,
I'm going to say it wrong. I'm sure, but at

(01:45:21):
the very end of your sentence, before you could even
be assigned there. Yes, but you have to be there
long enough to be able to complete the educational opportunities
that are there. And her concern was that a lot
of the women, when they get to the end of
their sentence and that are sent there, have not had
the educational opportunities presented to them that men who are

(01:45:44):
incarcerated in the state of Indiana have. And so she
said in the I think she was there ten years.
I was constantly catching these women up because even though
they are in a program and they're trying, and they
also get time off of their off of the time,
that they spent too much time not having access to

(01:46:05):
things that the men had access to within the state
of Indiana.

Speaker 26 (01:46:08):
Is that that's absolutely true.

Speaker 38 (01:46:10):
There's great there are great disparities in access to programming based.

Speaker 2 (01:46:15):
On what she was saying, great disparities, right.

Speaker 38 (01:46:18):
And then access to computers, access to additional trainings, vocational
higher education. There are great disparities, has always been, and
that's why I've always encouraged the ladies to take advantage
of whatever you when you can, because there's no guarantee
that it will be here.

Speaker 7 (01:46:36):
You know.

Speaker 38 (01:46:36):
I lived through the day when higher education was canceled
at the Indianaans Prison, and I watched those students cry
and the loss of the opportunity that would have given
them a time cut to get home earlier to their children.

Speaker 2 (01:46:51):
Right, yeah, yeah. And she was saying that she was
under pressure year in and ye're out to get these
women graduated, get them certified. And she was like, but
they were so far behind, I mean, how could you know?
And it was it was computer skills, business and a
whole lot of things to make them ready to go
you know into uh, you know, into the into the

(01:47:12):
world from where they had been. And that was her
constant frustration with that.

Speaker 38 (01:47:18):
Gender disparities are rooted in the carceral system, how it operated, operates,
the very origins of penal theology comes from how to
incarcerate men. And so only in the last five ten
years of people been getting to think about a gendered
response to women who have been impacted by the criminal
legal system, but there is no great wave of an

(01:47:42):
effort to change and make those areas equal.

Speaker 2 (01:47:45):
Yeah, and this is another thing that she was telling
me about because some of the women had been I
think it was Randolph Street, and please correct me if
I'm wrong. But even like you were saying, in terms
of how to incarcerate women, I think on Randolph Street
women used to be allowed to wear their own clothing.
And then somebody came in with privatization or what have you,

(01:48:08):
and said, no, everybody wears uniforms, despite the fact that
there was research to show that women are easier to
house when they can, you know, wear their own clothes
or change. But if you put women into uniform situations,
they react differently than men who wear uniforms. I was like,
and especially.

Speaker 26 (01:48:26):
True because the clothing we wore were men's clothing.

Speaker 2 (01:48:31):
None of these, oh, the uniforms were men's. They were
not made okay, okay for women. And she was telling
me what a psychological impact that some of the women
shared with her. She said, you know, she said, Tina,
you just would not believe you know some of the
things that are And I said clothing And she said, yeah,
so I'm thinking you were talking twenty years there, So.

Speaker 38 (01:48:52):
I mean that's absolutely true. It's absolutely true your quality
of life while you are in a captive situation, right,
all of those things around your bed area, your living area,
your interactions with others, all of that feeds into your
self esteem. So if you've got clothing that belongs to
you that is nice and it's neat and it's clean,

(01:49:14):
that helps with how you think about yourself and how
you approach your day.

Speaker 26 (01:49:18):
It was a real big shift in the culture in
the facility that we went to.

Speaker 2 (01:49:22):
Yeah, it's major.

Speaker 26 (01:49:24):
It was major.

Speaker 38 (01:49:24):
And then they chose to put us in head to
toe khaki khaki pants, khaki shirt, khaki over shirt.

Speaker 26 (01:49:31):
And it was just like we were I felt like erased.
It just kind of blended into a nothingness.

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
Yeah, it was very in a way.

Speaker 30 (01:49:40):
It could be seen as the last piece of dignity.

Speaker 2 (01:49:44):
Yes, and the men apparently, according to whatever the research was,
didn't react to it as much, and never have, you know,
never reacting, but there is there's certainly a different psychology
to housing uh women and housing men and all of that.
Apparently so much of it was erased due to some
of the privatization cutting cart I don't know how women

(01:50:05):
wearing their own clothing cut.

Speaker 38 (01:50:06):
There was a big push of the omnious crime build
under the Clinton administration. Oh, that tough on crime wave
came in in two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
which changed the consciousness of how people approach people in prison.

Speaker 26 (01:50:20):
Now we were all here to be punished and it
was the central focus.

Speaker 2 (01:50:24):
So how can the community do better and be better
informed and even impact and make a difference in this
entire cycle? I mean, I don't I'm not really sure
if they're you.

Speaker 26 (01:50:37):
Know, I have a lot of thou try to hold
my mule.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
Would you would you like to go?

Speaker 38 (01:50:41):
You want me to say what I got to say?

Speaker 26 (01:50:45):
I think you should say what you want to say?

Speaker 2 (01:50:46):
Yeah, I mean yeah, lived experiences that's invaluable, So go ahead.

Speaker 38 (01:50:51):
People who are organizing around healthcare, there are people who
are for all women, for all people, and there are
people organizing around housing, organizing around access to resources, this opportunity,
and they don't include people who have been impacted. They
just say, oh, it'll help all women.

Speaker 26 (01:51:08):
Well no, no, no, you need to.

Speaker 38 (01:51:09):
Actually speak scifically, speak about the people by the criminal
legal system, because there are collateral consequences that are heaped
upon us that if you're designing programming, you'd have to
consider those collateral consequences. They're going to impact us because
you're going to create something we can't even access.

Speaker 2 (01:51:27):
And that's so justice involved individuals. There's there's one African
American or black, there's two. Uh and you know we
could go right down the line. It's just female. Yes,
there's three. Uh So it's it's it's quite a hall.
It's quite a heavy lift, is it not.

Speaker 37 (01:51:48):
I would just say that if folks want to help out,
I want to uh just lift up Michelle's organization Constructing
our Future. Do you want to say a little bit
about what that is and how people can maybe get
involved with that?

Speaker 38 (01:52:02):
Sure, Constructing our Future was built inside the Indiana Women's Prison.
It's a safehouse in broad Ripoy, Indianapolis, where we provide
that care, that wrap around support and we have ladies
with us six months to two years or more if
they need it, but we give them that space to
get settled, to figure out what their plan is and
implement their plans. So when they leave us, they go

(01:52:23):
to permanent housing, they get their children back, they have
us completed a credential or stepped into a career because
we learn through listening, actually listening to each other what
the issues are in re entry and constructing our future.

Speaker 26 (01:52:37):
Were boots on the ground with that.

Speaker 2 (01:52:39):
Every day on website, yeah.

Speaker 38 (01:52:42):
Oh www, dot constructing ourfuture dot com constructing our future
dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:52:47):
And so doctor Nelson post incarceration for justice involved individuals
who are female and African American, I think what you
both are clearly saying is that it's completely different and
for justice involved black women than it is for justice
involved white women. Now, you would think that that would
be a level playing field because both have been justice involved,

(01:53:10):
but not necessarily so when it comes to black and
white A quick summary event.

Speaker 37 (01:53:14):
Sure, I mean one of my interests so I teach
in the medical Humanities program at Indiana University in Indianapolis,
and with a colleague there, kenzie Mentis, I've done some
research on health impacts of incarceration, and one of the
things we looked at was both self reported physical health

(01:53:35):
and mental health for folks who have not experienced and
who have experienced incarceration. These are older adults that we
looked at, and Black women their health, you know, how
they felt about their health and how they experienced their
physical and mental health were so much worse off compared

(01:53:56):
to white women and every other group. It was really
pretty shocking finding just that stark disparity. That's just one example,
and Michelle, you could probably add more to that picture.

Speaker 19 (01:54:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 38 (01:54:10):
Yeah, I've talked to several formally incarcerated Black women.

Speaker 26 (01:54:14):
I have a little group of us who hang out
and all of them have had.

Speaker 38 (01:54:19):
Some surgery of recent years or have had to have
major treatment or conditions that developed while incarcerated and that
have been exacerbated since they've been home, and so access
to healthcare, access to employment that has benefits is super
super important for them, which means there will often take

(01:54:41):
a job that has benefits over a job that has
career opportunity.

Speaker 32 (01:54:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:54:46):
Yeah, So I don't want to stop, but we have
to because we run a tie. But Stanley, this is
coming up. This Thursday, and again you want to share
with our listeners what they can do and how they
can participate.

Speaker 30 (01:55:00):
Yeah, so the program is free. It's happening this Thursday
at Indiana and in March twelve, O one twenty friven
here from six to seven point thirty. We encourage people
to go online and register even to The event is free,
and yeah, we're excited to see a big, large audience
come to listen about this wonderful comic.

Speaker 2 (01:55:19):
Indeed, and our presenters for Thursday have been right here
with us in studio. We are so happy to have
had doctor Michelle Daniel Jones, PhD and doctor Elizabeth Nelson, PhD.
This is Conversations in Indiana African American History and Culture,
Indiana Women's Prison History Project, Histories of Gender, Race and

(01:55:40):
Incarceration in Indiana History, Race and Incarceration. I was thinking generational.
We didn't even get to generational. You know, maybe that'll
be a whole other conversation, a whole other conversation. But
we want the public to be there. We want the
public to be involved because community involvement, community just community
awareness of the particular issue is important. And thank you
Freetown Village for uh, you know, just lifting the veil

(01:56:02):
on this topic and said.

Speaker 30 (01:56:03):
It was a wonderful topic. I don't need to minimize it.
How important that the topic is. It it's very important
for people to know about it and what they can
do to help.

Speaker 2 (01:56:13):
Yeah, because we are honored to participate. Yeah, indeed honored
to have you here with us. Thank you for all
you do, and good luck on Thursday. I know you're
gonna have a packed house. And it's free. It's all free.

Speaker 7 (01:56:22):
It's all free.

Speaker 2 (01:56:24):
Thank you. That's all the time we have for right
now for community connection. Willi Moore Junior on the radio
is up next. We'll be back tomorrow. Until then, I'm
Tina Cosmy and this is Community Connection.