May 14, 2025 • 29 mins
Feeling disconnected in relationships is a theme that's been surfacing a lot lately in my coaching sessions, and I think it’s something that many of us can relate to.
In this episode, I dive into the common struggles women face in long-term partnerships, particularly the sense of not being heard or satisfied. We explore the importance of owning our part in relationship dynamics while also recognising when our emotional needs aren’t being met.
I share insights on how to navigate those tough conversations that can feel daunting but are essential for connection. Ultimately, we discuss the deeper emotional issues behind surface-level complaints and how reconnecting with a shared vision for the future can reignite the spark in a relationship.
So, if you're feeling a bit lost or disconnected, this episode just might offer some helpful perspectives.
Takeaways:
- Feeling disconnected in relationships is a common theme that many women experience, especially in long-term partnerships, and it's important to address this.
- To improve your relationship, it's crucial to understand your own emotional patterns and responsibilities without self-judgement or blame.
- Effective communication requires clarity about what you want to achieve from difficult conversations, focusing on positive intentions rather than complaints.
- Deep emotional needs often underlie surface complaints about behaviour; recognising and expressing these needs is essential for resolving relationship issues.
You might also want to check out these episodes:
Cracking the Code on Relationships with Dr Sue Johnson, founder of Emotionally Focused Therapy for Couples
https://www.crappytohappypod.com/cracking-the-code-on-relationships-with-dr-sue-johnson/
The Key to Successful Relationships with Dr Ann Kelley
https://www.crappytohappypod.com/the-key-to-successful-relationships-with-dr-ann-kelley/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Foreign this is Crappy toHappy and I am your host, Cass Dunn.
I'm a clinical and coachingpsychologist and mindfulness meditation
teacher and of course authorof the Crappy to Happy books.
In this show I bring youconversations with interesting, inspiring,
intelligent people who areexperts in their field and who have
(00:23):
something of value to sharethat will help you feel less crappy
and more happy.
Foreign welcome back toanother episode of Crappy to Happy.
We've got a theme happening atthe moment.
Or should I say, I've got abit of a theme happening with my
(00:46):
private coaching clients.
And when there's a themehappening with my private coaching
clients, it's always a sign tome that I should talk about it.
Because if all these peopleare experiencing a similar thing,
then maybe it is somethingthat you are also experiencing.
And that theme is feelingdisconnected in relationships.
(01:06):
Repeatedly over the last fewweeks I have had conversations with
my coaching slash therapyclients because it's a little coaching,
a little therapy who are womenwho have been in long term relationships
and who are finding themselvesnot feeling heard, feeling very disconnected,
feeling dissatisfied reallywith the quality of the relationship.
(01:30):
And remember, these are womenwho are investing in themselves so
they are not just looking toblame their partner for their problems.
They are actively working ontheir own emotional regulation, on
healing their own old wounds,on taking responsibility for how
(01:50):
they're showing up in life andlearning to be better able to regulate
themselves, to be more selfaware, to pursue their own interests,
pursue their own socialconnections, hobbies, passion projects,
businesses, whatever it might be.
These are women who are reallydoing the work and maybe that's the
(02:11):
reason that they are thenrealizing that actually this partnership
that I'm in is not reallydoing it for me.
Like there's a gap here,there's a disconnect.
I'm not feeling like I'mgetting my needs met and that's really
painful place to be.
Especially when you are at apoint in life where you don't want
to be single again.
This is the person youimagined that you were growing old
(02:32):
with.
You don't want to be leavingthe relationship, but something needs
to change, something needs tobe fixed.
It means having difficult conversations.
And of course then when youhave difficult conversations, you
bump up against all of thatperson's, all of your partners, unresolved
issues.
You very quickly learn howemotionally mature or not your partner
(02:57):
is when you start to raiseissues, want to have a conversation,
and are met with maybestonewalling, silence, passive aggressiveness,
just not being heard, beingdismissed, having them turn things
around and blame you, whateverthe situation might be like, you
soon learn whether yourpartner has got the emotional maturity
(03:19):
and the emotional regulationskills and the capacity to be able
to have these conversationsand work with you.
And if they don't, well, thenthat, that raises a whole other can
of worms, doesn't it?
Because it's not your job tofix them and it's not in your control
whether your partner is goingto choose to take responsibility
(03:41):
for doing that work themselves.
So I can't promise to fix yourmarriage in one podcast episode,
but maybe what I can sharewith you is just some ideas and some
suggestions for you to think about.
I don't know you or yoursituation or the issues that you're
dealing with or the state ofyour marriage or your partnership.
But I think there are somegeneral guidelines or just some general
(04:04):
helpful ideas to take on boardthat might just help you to know
what your next step is or howyou might go about navigating the
conversations that you mightwant to have if you find yourself
in this situation.
So I guess the very firstthing, like I said earlier, is when
I'm talking to clients ofmine, I know them and we have been
(04:27):
working together.
So I already have a sense.
We've already discussed whattheir own emotional patterns are,
what their personal historyis, what their core wounds are, what
triggers them, how, how theygo into emotional shutdown or they
get defensive.
So we've worked on thattogether and in some cases, you know,
we've been actively doing thework to resolve those issues so that
(04:51):
they don't keep going, fallinginto those same patterns.
I don't know you personally,maybe I do.
But it's really helpful foryou to have some understanding of
that yourself.
Know that about yourself firstand foremost.
Know what your own patterns are.
Are you the one who tends toshut down and keep it all bottled
up inside?
Stew when you're feelingunhappy with something that your
(05:14):
partner's done, Are you theone who expects them to be a mind
reader when you haven'tactually told them what's wrong and
then you're furious that theyhaven't asked you what's wrong when
you're stomping around the house?
Like, we all have these oldhabits and patterns that we fall
into.
So doing that, work yourselfto understand your own patterns with
(05:34):
no judgment, with no self judgment.
Like we're all just walkingaround these, with all of these conditioned
responses, these patterns thatwe've fallen into, that we've, by
this stage of life, we've beendoing these things over and over
for years.
And, you know, we've talkedabout there's wounded parts and there's
protector parts and there'swork that we can all do there to
heal and resolve some of thosepatterns that they don't keep playing
(05:55):
out.
So taking that responsibilityyourself, I guess, is what I'm saying.
First and foremost, just beingprepared to own that and maybe to
do the work that you need todo now.
Which is not to say that youshould take all of the responsibility
for every issue in yourrelationship, but it is important
(06:15):
to own your share, you know,and you're not expected to be a whole,
healed, perfect person either.
In order to be able to have ahappy, connected, satisfying relationship
with somebody, you don't haveto have done all the work and be
this perfectly, fully whole,healed, fantasy version of yourself,
(06:36):
which is probably never goingto exist.
You get what I'm saying?
It's just about being able tosay, okay, you know, maybe that bit
was on me, or maybe I couldhave communicated that a little bit
better, or maybe I have neverspoken out loud about the things
that bother me, or maybe I doget a little bit defensive at times
and maybe I react badly to things.
(06:58):
Now, here's one.
Maybe this is the role thatI've been playing for our whole the
duration of our relationship.
I've been the dutifulcaregiver, nurturer, wife, mother,
whatever.
You know, I've beensubjugating my own needs, downplaying
my preferences, desires, opinions.
(07:19):
I've let my partner run theshow, call the shots, make the decisions,
take the lead.
We've always done what theywant to do, but now I don't like
that anymore.
But I got to takeresponsibility for the fact that
I've played this part for allof this time.
There was a time that maybe Ithought this served me.
Maybe there was a time that Ifelt like this was just the way things
(07:40):
are, or this was the way Ifelt I had to be, or this.
How is how I was conditionedto be.
I thought this was the easier option.
This was the way that I keepthe peace and keep things harmonious.
Like, I thought that was just simpler.
Had a great conversation withMichelle McQuaid on this topic.
She came on and talked aboutgood girl syndrome, and she talked
about her own marriage.
In our page community, we hada private call with her and she talked
(08:02):
about her own marriage andhow, you know, she just continued
to do that for their whole.
Her whole marriage until shereached a point where she was like,
you know what?
This isn't satisfying for me anymore.
I can't continue to do that.
This and I gave my partneropportunities to step up and to change
the dynamic and do things differently.
But ultimately he wasn't ableto do that.
And so we kind of freely leteach other go.
(08:22):
You know, I am happier, he'shappier, and we are still great mates.
We co parent, we're very amicable.
We're just happy you're apart.
So just being willing to ownyour responsibility, I guess, is
the number one point.
I think the next thing isgetting really clear about what it
is that you want to bedifferent in the relationship.
(08:43):
What's missing?
What specifically?
If things could change, ifthere was a magic wand and this relationship
was all that you want it tobe, what would be different?
Having some sense of that, Ithink is really helpful.
One thing that we often reallyget wrong when we talk about relationship
conflict and healing andresolving issues in relationships.
(09:06):
And even if you go off to seea therapist, oftentimes what gets
brought up, the issues thatget brought up are to do with behaviors.
You don't spend enough timewith me.
We don't do enough things together.
When we're in socialsituations, I feel ignored.
Or we don't really haveanything to talk about besides the
kids.
(09:26):
Like, it's.
It's all this kind of it'simportant stuff, but it's focused
on what's happening in the external.
It's focused on the behaviorpatterns, the dynamics that play
out.
Like, I feel like I'm not supported.
You're not helping out enoughwith kids or home or housework or
the expectations you have ofme are unrealistic or unreasonable.
(09:46):
You seem more focused on yourwork or your mates than you are on
me and us and the relationship.
I don't like the way you talkto the kids.
I don't like how angry you get.
You know, we're on a differentpage when it comes to parenting decisions,
all this sort of thing.
Right?
Which is all valid.
Typically.
What is really the issue issomething much deeper than that.
(10:08):
Whatever complaint that youhave about a behavior, it is really
speaking to a deeper emotionalneed that is not being met.
And expressing a deepemotional need that's not being met
is very vulnerable.
And people will.
Even in intimaterelationships, even in your marriage,
people feel reallyuncomfortable expressing a deep,
(10:29):
unmet emotional need.
It feels really scary and vulnerable.
And so people will avoidtalking about their scary vulnerability
and instead focus on you nevercome home straight away after.
Football, golf, I don't know, whatever.
You're too preoccupied with work.
I Feel like, you know, you'renot there and you're not present,
(10:50):
you're not connected.
When we're sitting and we'rehaving dinner, you're on your phone,
whatever.
It might be all these behaviors.
Right.
But it's not the behavior.
It is that something is missing.
I do not feel emotionallyseen, heard, understood.
I don't feel valued, appreciated.
I feel rejected.
I feel sad.
I feel unattractive.
(11:12):
I feel lost.
I feel alone.
I feel like you've got thisgreat life and I don't have anything.
I feel pathetic, whatever.
Like, that stuff's hard.
That stuff's much harder toshare and especially much harder
to share with somebody thatyou don't feel like you're emotionally
connecting with.
You're not necessarily feelingsafe with this person.
(11:34):
You're not necessarily like,yeah, they're there.
They're familiar that you'rethere every day and you're not really
fighting and you're not, youknow, there's no conflict there.
Known them most of your adultlife, you know, a lot of the time
or for many years.
But there's not that emotionalintimacy there that feels safe and
that you feel like you canreally express that and have that
(11:54):
land and have that be receivedin a way that will be heard and held
and responded to in a way thatis positive so that you do feel supported
and connected.
So it's a big, scary risk toput something like that out there
when you don't know whatyou're going to get back, which is
why mostly you don't say it.
(12:16):
And so mostly you just focuson you never come home.
And then they say, well, whatis there to come home to?
You're only watching RealHousewives anyway, so what is even
the point?
We're not even doing anythingtogether, so what does it matter?
And why do you stop.
Why don't you stop nagging meand blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
You see what I'm saying?
Missing the point.
If we're talking about thebehaviors, you can say, I want us
to do more things together onthe weekend.
(12:37):
But what you really mean is, Iwant us to.
I want you to want to be with me.
I want you to choose me.
I want you to want to spendquality time with me and us to have
a good time together.
I want us to be able to talkabout things that are actually meaningful
and that matter.
I want to be able to expresshow I feel about something or how
hurt I am and for you toactually hear me and respond to that.
(12:59):
So that's really important.
And sometimes that requires acouple's therapist to help to facilitate
that conversation so that itdoes feel safe, if you are to choose
to go and see a couplestherapist, then I would make sure
that you find somebody who hasexperience in a more emotionally
focused way of approachingcouples therapy.
(13:21):
Because many couplestherapists, I mean, I don't know,
I've been out of the industryfor a really long time.
But, you know, a lot ofcouples therapists are probably going
to talk about yourcommunication skills, and I'm probably
going to talk about how youwork in more, spending more time
together.
And sometimes, sometimesthat's missing the point, sometimes
that's not really getting toit at all.
So then I think the next thingis, once you are really clear about
(13:43):
what it is that you want to bedifferent, once you are also very
clear and willing to own yourown part in this without taking all
the responsibility, butwilling to take your share of the
responsibility when youdecide, if you decide that you need
to approach your partner tohave a conversation about this, you
want to talk about this andyou want to resolve things, you want
to improve things.
(14:04):
First up, I think it's reallyimportant that you're very clear
about what your objective isin having that conversation.
Like when you raise this issuethat you know what it is that you
want to get out of the conversation.
I would say that about anyimportant conversation, whether it's
in the workplace or whetherit's with a friend or a family member.
Like, you want to be reallyclear about what your objective is.
(14:25):
So you kind of know whatyou're asking for, that you're not
just going in to raise a complaint.
Whether you think that that'swhat you're doing is raising a complaint,
you know, if there's a chanceit's going to just be received as
a complaint, if it's justgoing to be heard as a complaint
and have somebody, the otherperson become defensive about it,
which again, is not entirelyyour responsibility.
(14:47):
You don't need to own that.
But I just mean to know whatit is that you want to get out of
the conversation.
What's your positive intention?
What is your positiveintention in having this conversation?
You don't want to just offload.
You don't want to bitch and whinge.
You don't want to justcomplain about how shit everything
is and what a terrible personthey are and how unhappy you are,
because that's not going to bewell received.
(15:07):
Like we, we probably know thatwe don't have to be couples therap
to know that that's usuallynot well received.
What is your positive intention?
What is the positive outcomethat you're looking for?
And it doesn't have to be youwant to transform the whole relationship.
It might just be that you want.
The outcome of this firstconversation is to be able to allocate
(15:28):
some time to have another conversation.
Like that really could be it.
Do you want to raise it?
There's some things that youwant to talk about or some things
that you want to work on together.
And could you just make some time?
We can be undisturbed, likemaybe that's the outcome or the objective
of the first conversation.
So when you're going into theconversation, you know what it is
that you're wanting to achievethat is positive.
(15:49):
The key thing in this is to becultivating trust, fostering a sense
of trust and togetherness.
Like, we're in this together.
This is not me against you.
This is our relationship.
This is our family.
This is our future.
So if we want this to bedifferent, it is for the benefit
(16:10):
of both of us.
And that's what I'm here for.
I'm here to try to make thisbetter for both of us.
I'm willing to own my part init, but I'm also needing you to come
to the table and own your ownpart in it.
But we're not saying that inan accusatory way.
We're just coming in with thepositive intention and coming in
with the shared goal.
Right, and the shared goal, Imean, to be honest, the shared goal,
(16:34):
the outcome might be that youdon't want to be in this relationship.
I'm saying all of this withthe assumption that you do.
It actually might be that you don't.
And it actually might be thatthe outcome that you're looking for
is to get you both on the samepage, that you would both be happier
not in this relationship anymore.
And if that's your decision,you know, you're.
You're entitled to make thatdecision, but you might just want
(16:55):
to be really hopeful that youcan get to that so that it's a shared
understanding and that.
And that you can both agreethat that's the best outcome.
Instead of feeling like you'repulling the rug out from underneath
somebody, you know, you mightwant to really be trying to facilitate
getting you both on the samepage with that being the best outcome.
So maybe that's the intentionof the conversation.
(17:16):
And I'll just say on thatpoint, by the way, I truly believe
that you are going to get abetter outcome if you are comfortable
within yourself that you couldlive without this relationship wouldn't
be what you want, maybewouldn't be what you would choose
necessarily, but that youwould be willing to walk away if
(17:37):
that is what is going to bethe best thing for you.
I think if you go into aconversation like this, knowing within
yourself, whether you say itout loud or not doesn't matter, but
knowing within yourself thatif the outcome is that this is not
redeemable, this relationshipcan't be saved, that you would be
accepting of it being over.
(17:57):
And the reason that I say thatis because when you're comfortable
with that, like when you'recomfortable that I might need to
walk away from this to behappy, it means that if you stay,
it's because.
Because you choose to stay.
It's because you choose tosay, not because you think there's
no other option.
If you think this is.
There is no other option.
If you're in this situation orif you're approaching this conversation
(18:17):
or if you are wondering whatto do about how you feel, which is
not happy.
And in your mind, separatingis not an option.
Divorce is not an option.
It's off the table.
That can't happen.
Unwilling to go there, you'rein a pretty compromised situation.
Like, you're going to be muchmore likely to make a whole lot of
compromises and to put up witha whole lot of stuff that is maybe
(18:39):
not going to be in your bestinterest because you're afraid of
the alternative.
You're afraid of risking the relationship.
If you're willing to risk therelationship, then you're much more
likely to raise all theissues, have all the hard conversations,
really get some proper change,you know, some meaningful change
(19:01):
in the dynamic of therelationship so that ultimately you
feel happy to stay and thatyou choose to stay and make it work.
Now, look, I don't know, maybethere'll be some people who disagree
with me on that.
Maybe some people who've gotvery strong Christian values who,
like, you know, you don't getdivorced, you've got to stick in
there, you've got to hang inthere, and you've got to make it
work.
Like, otherwise, too manypeople just walk away these days.
(19:22):
Too many people just throw itin and marriage means nothing anymore.
Well, you know, there'sarguments for marriage being a really
outdated, antiquatedinstitution which probably has run
its course, I don't know.
But I think that whole juststaying in it, sticking it out because
it's the done thing, becausethat's what you're supposed to do.
And because that's what yourfamily expects and your church expects
(19:43):
and your friends expect.
And you don't want to be thatperson to walk away from your marriage.
Like, I feel like that reallyputs you in a compromised situation
where you are much less likelyto really fight for and advocate
for and stand up for thechanges that you want to see that
are going to make you thehappiest and most satisfied that
(20:05):
you can be in that relationship.
You also know the two of youboth know that you are there because
you choose to be, not becauseyou feel like you're stuck there,
not because you feel like thisis your lot in life and you've just
got to suck it up and you'vejust got to make it work.
Because that's not really thegrounds for a happy, satisfying relationship,
is it?
Like, that's just, oh, well,there's no reason there to advocate
(20:30):
for change if you're just init for the long haul.
What motivation is there?
I don't know.
Like, there's nothing to risklosing because you know that you.
You're not going anywhere anyway.
That's a philosophical debate.
We can have some other time.
I just feel like, even in yourown mind, if you feel like you would
be willing to walk away, itmeans that if you stay, it's going
to be because you choose to.
And it's your life, and youonly get one.
(20:51):
I guess when you have thatconversation with your partner, too,
then once you do start thatinteraction and that dialogue, it's
really important to justobserve the dynamic in the exchange.
Now, this is potentially awhole other podcast episode about
those communication patternsand the default ways that people
(21:13):
respond and react.
But, you know, there is a partof you.
With mindfulness, I'm allabout mindfulness.
With mindfulness, there is apart of you that is in the conversation,
having the conversation, andthere is another part of you that
is observing the interaction.
You know that you wouldexperience that yourself, whether
you're a meditator or you areskilled at mindfulness or not.
Typically, you can be in a conversation.
(21:34):
We've all had the experienceof, you know, being in an argument.
And there's one part of usthat's there having the argument
and another part of us that'sup in our head going, what the fuck?
Are we even.
Why are we even having this argument?
This is ridiculous.
You know that, right?
There's this part of you thatwitnesses, and there's this part
of you that's actually engagednow, keeping that witnessing part
on board.
Can be really helpful whileyou have that conversation.
(21:57):
So you're not just followingthe content of the conversation,
talking about what it is thatyou want for the relationship, talking
about where you might bedissatisfied, asking your partner
what they want or what theywould see differently or how satisfied
they are.
There's all of that back andforth about the content, but then
there's the actual process ofhow you interact, and that is actually
(22:19):
more important.
So observing whether there isavoiding a question or turning things
around and putting them backon you, or avoidance of responsibility,
even in yourself, observe yourown patterns.
Are you bringing up thingsthat happened 15 years ago that should
be let go?
Are you getting triggered bycertain things that are happening
(22:41):
or things that your partner'ssaying that you know are not helpful
to this current conversation?
So just keeping one eye, ifit's possible, on the dynamics of
that interaction, Any tendencyto stonewall, get up, walk out of
the room, refuse to engage ina difficult conversation, escalate
into a conflict, and just havethe presence of mind, if possible,
(23:06):
to be able to manage thatdynamic, to be able to have the presence
of mind, to be able to say,this is not going well, maybe we
need to take a break from this.
Maybe I got off track there.
Or to reflect back to them.
You actually.
I'm not sure if you noticed,but you didn't actually answer the
question then.
I'm feeling like this, I'mobserving this, I'm noticing this.
(23:29):
Like speaking to your ownexperience without going into, there
you go again.
You always do this.
You always change the subject.
You always bring up this.
You know, you don't want to gointo that.
Be really mindful of not goinginto that.
Attacking, accusatory,critical kind of language, and keep
the focus on, you know, what'shappening right here in this moment,
(23:51):
in this dynamic, Taking apause and taking a break if you need
to.
But like I said, that'sprobably a whole other conversation.
And then I think, last but notleast, and this probably goes without
saying, what you reallywanting to do, I think, is to get
back on board with a sharedvision for this relationship.
Where is this going?
If you've been with yourpartner for a really long time, like,
(24:13):
if it's the same person you'vebeen married to for your whole life
or it's been a really longtime, maybe even if it's your second
marriage or whatever, but whenyou're first together, there are
certain priorities.
You're at a certain point inyour working life, you might have
had young kids, you might havehad Kids together.
There's a lot of focus on allof these other things in life.
And then you get to this pointwhere the focus is shifted.
(24:34):
Kids have grown up, kids aremoving out.
You're at a different point inyour career.
You're starting to looktowards, you know, when are we retiring?
Where do we want to spend ourlater years?
You're starting to really lookat priorities shifting as you get
older.
And so if you don't already,if you haven't already had those
conversations, how do you getback on board with a shared vision
(24:55):
for this relationship in the future?
Like, how do you tap back intosome sense of enthusiasm and excitement
for the future of thisrelationship, like you did when you
were first together?
Like when you were firsttogether and you had big plans and
dreams about the life you'regoing to create and the house we're
going to decorate and the kidswere going to have and the.
All of the things, right,you've moved past that now.
(25:16):
So what's the new vision?
Where's it going?
How do you want to spend laterlife together?
And if it's feeling like it'snot like, if it's feeling like I'm
going down one path andthey're going down this other path
and not there's no together,there's no us in this, then maybe
that's what the conversationis about.
It's like, well, how do we getback on board with a shared vision?
(25:39):
What are our shared priorities?
What are we working towards together?
But like I said, at the end ofthe day, do you feel seen, heard,
felt understood?
Do you feel like you canexpress what your needs are, have
them heard, have them validated?
These are really the issues.
Like, this is really usuallywhat the problem is when you're feeling
(26:02):
a disconnect in your relationship.
All the surface level stuff,all the behavioral stuff, they're
usually more like symptoms orbyproducts of a deeper level of emotional
disconnection.
So how you go about gettingthat back really comes down to emotional
maturity.
A willingness to reallydevelop the skills within yourself
(26:23):
to be mindful and to regulateyourself, regulate your own emotions,
separate the past from thepresent and feel safe to communicate
and express what it is thatyou really need.
And then see what happens, seewhat feedback you get.
And based on what feedback youget is going to determine what your
next step is, isn't it?
Like, all you're doing isputting something out there and seeing
(26:46):
what comes back.
I hope that is helpful.
Obviously, half an hourpodcast isn't going to solve all
of the problems of the world.
But given that this has comeup quite a lot, and especially women
in this sort of age, middleage, long term relationships, priorities
shifting, feeling emotionallyunsupported, who have spent many
years looking out foreverybody else's needs and have come
(27:07):
to a where they look aroundand there's not much there anymore.
And maybe there's a lot ofother things that need to be worked
on as well in terms ofbuilding up your own sense of yourself
and your interests and yourpassion projects and cultivating
really high quality friendships.
But your primary relationshipis also a really big part of that.
It's also a really bigcontributor to your satisfaction
(27:29):
in life.
So if that is an issue foryou, hope that you're able to navigate
some of those conversationsand obviously seek out some professional
help to facilitate the conversations.
If you feel like there's abreakdown there, that is it from
me.
You guys.
Now we are currently in themidst of our new series in the Beyond
Happy paid subscription podcast.
(27:51):
It's only $10 a month, noteven that.
And it is called Mindfulnessand then Want, where I am actually
releasing two episodes a week,all based on how mindfulness and
related skills and processescan help you live a healthier, happier,
more connected life.
And some of it is actuallyquite relevant to this topic of relationship
(28:14):
skills and your own emotionalregulation, your own attachment issues.
So if you want to join in forthat, even just for a month, then
either come to my substack andor Spotify and opt in that way.
Substack and Spotify areconnected or you can just press the
upgrade button.
In Apple podcasts you can joinfor a month, you can join for a year
and you get the privatepodcast and you get lots of other
(28:39):
things which we're kicking offgroup calls, webinars, things like
that.
So if you want to join in onthat, highly recommend.
It's only very new fledglingand still really small, but I'm excited
to grow that community.
But yes, mindfulness and then what?
Lots of good stuff in thismonth's new series, so I'd love to
(29:01):
see you there.
Have a great week.
I cannot wait to catch younext next week for another fabulous
episode of Crabby to Happy.
Foreign this is Crappy toHappy and I am your host, Cass Dunn.
I'm a clinical and coachingpsychologist and mindfulness meditation
teacher and of course authorof the Crappy to Happy books.
In this show I bring youconversations with interesting, inspiring,
intelligent people who areexperts in their field and who have
(00:23):
something of value to sharethat will help you feel less crappy
and more happy.
Foreign welcome back toanother episode of Crappy to Happy.
We've got a theme happening atthe moment.
Or should I say, I've got abit of a theme happening with my
(00:46):
private coaching clients.
And when there's a themehappening with my private coaching
clients, it's always a sign tome that I should talk about it.
Because if all these peopleare experiencing a similar thing,
then maybe it is somethingthat you are also experiencing.
And that theme is feelingdisconnected in relationships.
(01:06):
Repeatedly over the last fewweeks I have had conversations with
my coaching slash therapyclients because it's a little coaching,
a little therapy who are womenwho have been in long term relationships
and who are finding themselvesnot feeling heard, feeling very disconnected,
feeling dissatisfied reallywith the quality of the relationship.
(01:30):
And remember, these are womenwho are investing in themselves so
they are not just looking toblame their partner for their problems.
They are actively working ontheir own emotional regulation, on
healing their own old wounds,on taking responsibility for how
(01:50):
they're showing up in life andlearning to be better able to regulate
themselves, to be more selfaware, to pursue their own interests,
pursue their own socialconnections, hobbies, passion projects,
businesses, whatever it might be.
These are women who are reallydoing the work and maybe that's the
(02:11):
reason that they are thenrealizing that actually this partnership
that I'm in is not reallydoing it for me.
Like there's a gap here,there's a disconnect.
I'm not feeling like I'mgetting my needs met and that's really
painful place to be.
Especially when you are at apoint in life where you don't want
to be single again.
This is the person youimagined that you were growing old
(02:32):
with.
You don't want to be leavingthe relationship, but something needs
to change, something needs tobe fixed.
It means having difficult conversations.
And of course then when youhave difficult conversations, you
bump up against all of thatperson's, all of your partners, unresolved
issues.
You very quickly learn howemotionally mature or not your partner
(02:57):
is when you start to raiseissues, want to have a conversation,
and are met with maybestonewalling, silence, passive aggressiveness,
just not being heard, beingdismissed, having them turn things
around and blame you, whateverthe situation might be like, you
soon learn whether yourpartner has got the emotional maturity
(03:19):
and the emotional regulationskills and the capacity to be able
to have these conversationsand work with you.
And if they don't, well, thenthat, that raises a whole other can
of worms, doesn't it?
Because it's not your job tofix them and it's not in your control
whether your partner is goingto choose to take responsibility
(03:41):
for doing that work themselves.
So I can't promise to fix yourmarriage in one podcast episode,
but maybe what I can sharewith you is just some ideas and some
suggestions for you to think about.
I don't know you or yoursituation or the issues that you're
dealing with or the state ofyour marriage or your partnership.
But I think there are somegeneral guidelines or just some general
(04:04):
helpful ideas to take on boardthat might just help you to know
what your next step is or howyou might go about navigating the
conversations that you mightwant to have if you find yourself
in this situation.
So I guess the very firstthing, like I said earlier, is when
I'm talking to clients ofmine, I know them and we have been
(04:27):
working together.
So I already have a sense.
We've already discussed whattheir own emotional patterns are,
what their personal historyis, what their core wounds are, what
triggers them, how, how theygo into emotional shutdown or they
get defensive.
So we've worked on thattogether and in some cases, you know,
we've been actively doing thework to resolve those issues so that
(04:51):
they don't keep going, fallinginto those same patterns.
I don't know you personally,maybe I do.
But it's really helpful foryou to have some understanding of
that yourself.
Know that about yourself firstand foremost.
Know what your own patterns are.
Are you the one who tends toshut down and keep it all bottled
up inside?
Stew when you're feelingunhappy with something that your
(05:14):
partner's done, Are you theone who expects them to be a mind
reader when you haven'tactually told them what's wrong and
then you're furious that theyhaven't asked you what's wrong when
you're stomping around the house?
Like, we all have these oldhabits and patterns that we fall
into.
So doing that, work yourselfto understand your own patterns with
(05:34):
no judgment, with no self judgment.
Like we're all just walkingaround these, with all of these conditioned
responses, these patterns thatwe've fallen into, that we've, by
this stage of life, we've beendoing these things over and over
for years.
And, you know, we've talkedabout there's wounded parts and there's
protector parts and there'swork that we can all do there to
heal and resolve some of thosepatterns that they don't keep playing
(05:55):
out.
So taking that responsibilityyourself, I guess, is what I'm saying.
First and foremost, just beingprepared to own that and maybe to
do the work that you need todo now.
Which is not to say that youshould take all of the responsibility
for every issue in yourrelationship, but it is important
(06:15):
to own your share, you know,and you're not expected to be a whole,
healed, perfect person either.
In order to be able to have ahappy, connected, satisfying relationship
with somebody, you don't haveto have done all the work and be
this perfectly, fully whole,healed, fantasy version of yourself,
(06:36):
which is probably never goingto exist.
You get what I'm saying?
It's just about being able tosay, okay, you know, maybe that bit
was on me, or maybe I couldhave communicated that a little bit
better, or maybe I have neverspoken out loud about the things
that bother me, or maybe I doget a little bit defensive at times
and maybe I react badly to things.
(06:58):
Now, here's one.
Maybe this is the role thatI've been playing for our whole the
duration of our relationship.
I've been the dutifulcaregiver, nurturer, wife, mother,
whatever.
You know, I've beensubjugating my own needs, downplaying
my preferences, desires, opinions.
(07:19):
I've let my partner run theshow, call the shots, make the decisions,
take the lead.
We've always done what theywant to do, but now I don't like
that anymore.
But I got to takeresponsibility for the fact that
I've played this part for allof this time.
There was a time that maybe Ithought this served me.
Maybe there was a time that Ifelt like this was just the way things
(07:40):
are, or this was the way Ifelt I had to be, or this.
How is how I was conditionedto be.
I thought this was the easier option.
This was the way that I keepthe peace and keep things harmonious.
Like, I thought that was just simpler.
Had a great conversation withMichelle McQuaid on this topic.
She came on and talked aboutgood girl syndrome, and she talked
about her own marriage.
In our page community, we hada private call with her and she talked
(08:02):
about her own marriage andhow, you know, she just continued
to do that for their whole.
Her whole marriage until shereached a point where she was like,
you know what?
This isn't satisfying for me anymore.
I can't continue to do that.
This and I gave my partneropportunities to step up and to change
the dynamic and do things differently.
But ultimately he wasn't ableto do that.
And so we kind of freely leteach other go.
(08:22):
You know, I am happier, he'shappier, and we are still great mates.
We co parent, we're very amicable.
We're just happy you're apart.
So just being willing to ownyour responsibility, I guess, is
the number one point.
I think the next thing isgetting really clear about what it
is that you want to bedifferent in the relationship.
(08:43):
What's missing?
What specifically?
If things could change, ifthere was a magic wand and this relationship
was all that you want it tobe, what would be different?
Having some sense of that, Ithink is really helpful.
One thing that we often reallyget wrong when we talk about relationship
conflict and healing andresolving issues in relationships.
(09:06):
And even if you go off to seea therapist, oftentimes what gets
brought up, the issues thatget brought up are to do with behaviors.
You don't spend enough timewith me.
We don't do enough things together.
When we're in socialsituations, I feel ignored.
Or we don't really haveanything to talk about besides the
kids.
(09:26):
Like, it's.
It's all this kind of it'simportant stuff, but it's focused
on what's happening in the external.
It's focused on the behaviorpatterns, the dynamics that play
out.
Like, I feel like I'm not supported.
You're not helping out enoughwith kids or home or housework or
the expectations you have ofme are unrealistic or unreasonable.
(09:46):
You seem more focused on yourwork or your mates than you are on
me and us and the relationship.
I don't like the way you talkto the kids.
I don't like how angry you get.
You know, we're on a differentpage when it comes to parenting decisions,
all this sort of thing.
Right?
Which is all valid.
Typically.
What is really the issue issomething much deeper than that.
(10:08):
Whatever complaint that youhave about a behavior, it is really
speaking to a deeper emotionalneed that is not being met.
And expressing a deepemotional need that's not being met
is very vulnerable.
And people will.
Even in intimaterelationships, even in your marriage,
people feel reallyuncomfortable expressing a deep,
(10:29):
unmet emotional need.
It feels really scary and vulnerable.
And so people will avoidtalking about their scary vulnerability
and instead focus on you nevercome home straight away after.
Football, golf, I don't know, whatever.
You're too preoccupied with work.
I Feel like, you know, you'renot there and you're not present,
(10:50):
you're not connected.
When we're sitting and we'rehaving dinner, you're on your phone,
whatever.
It might be all these behaviors.
Right.
But it's not the behavior.
It is that something is missing.
I do not feel emotionallyseen, heard, understood.
I don't feel valued, appreciated.
I feel rejected.
I feel sad.
I feel unattractive.
(11:12):
I feel lost.
I feel alone.
I feel like you've got thisgreat life and I don't have anything.
I feel pathetic, whatever.
Like, that stuff's hard.
That stuff's much harder toshare and especially much harder
to share with somebody thatyou don't feel like you're emotionally
connecting with.
You're not necessarily feelingsafe with this person.
(11:34):
You're not necessarily like,yeah, they're there.
They're familiar that you'rethere every day and you're not really
fighting and you're not, youknow, there's no conflict there.
Known them most of your adultlife, you know, a lot of the time
or for many years.
But there's not that emotionalintimacy there that feels safe and
that you feel like you canreally express that and have that
(11:54):
land and have that be receivedin a way that will be heard and held
and responded to in a way thatis positive so that you do feel supported
and connected.
So it's a big, scary risk toput something like that out there
when you don't know whatyou're going to get back, which is
why mostly you don't say it.
(12:16):
And so mostly you just focuson you never come home.
And then they say, well, whatis there to come home to?
You're only watching RealHousewives anyway, so what is even
the point?
We're not even doing anythingtogether, so what does it matter?
And why do you stop.
Why don't you stop nagging meand blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
You see what I'm saying?
Missing the point.
If we're talking about thebehaviors, you can say, I want us
to do more things together onthe weekend.
(12:37):
But what you really mean is, Iwant us to.
I want you to want to be with me.
I want you to choose me.
I want you to want to spendquality time with me and us to have
a good time together.
I want us to be able to talkabout things that are actually meaningful
and that matter.
I want to be able to expresshow I feel about something or how
hurt I am and for you toactually hear me and respond to that.
(12:59):
So that's really important.
And sometimes that requires acouple's therapist to help to facilitate
that conversation so that itdoes feel safe, if you are to choose
to go and see a couplestherapist, then I would make sure
that you find somebody who hasexperience in a more emotionally
focused way of approachingcouples therapy.
(13:21):
Because many couplestherapists, I mean, I don't know,
I've been out of the industryfor a really long time.
But, you know, a lot ofcouples therapists are probably going
to talk about yourcommunication skills, and I'm probably
going to talk about how youwork in more, spending more time
together.
And sometimes, sometimesthat's missing the point, sometimes
that's not really getting toit at all.
So then I think the next thingis, once you are really clear about
(13:43):
what it is that you want to bedifferent, once you are also very
clear and willing to own yourown part in this without taking all
the responsibility, butwilling to take your share of the
responsibility when youdecide, if you decide that you need
to approach your partner tohave a conversation about this, you
want to talk about this andyou want to resolve things, you want
to improve things.
(14:04):
First up, I think it's reallyimportant that you're very clear
about what your objective isin having that conversation.
Like when you raise this issuethat you know what it is that you
want to get out of the conversation.
I would say that about anyimportant conversation, whether it's
in the workplace or whetherit's with a friend or a family member.
Like, you want to be reallyclear about what your objective is.
(14:25):
So you kind of know whatyou're asking for, that you're not
just going in to raise a complaint.
Whether you think that that'swhat you're doing is raising a complaint,
you know, if there's a chanceit's going to just be received as
a complaint, if it's justgoing to be heard as a complaint
and have somebody, the otherperson become defensive about it,
which again, is not entirelyyour responsibility.
(14:47):
You don't need to own that.
But I just mean to know whatit is that you want to get out of
the conversation.
What's your positive intention?
What is your positiveintention in having this conversation?
You don't want to just offload.
You don't want to bitch and whinge.
You don't want to justcomplain about how shit everything
is and what a terrible personthey are and how unhappy you are,
because that's not going to bewell received.
(15:07):
Like we, we probably know thatwe don't have to be couples therap
to know that that's usuallynot well received.
What is your positive intention?
What is the positive outcomethat you're looking for?
And it doesn't have to be youwant to transform the whole relationship.
It might just be that you want.
The outcome of this firstconversation is to be able to allocate
(15:28):
some time to have another conversation.
Like that really could be it.
Do you want to raise it?
There's some things that youwant to talk about or some things
that you want to work on together.
And could you just make some time?
We can be undisturbed, likemaybe that's the outcome or the objective
of the first conversation.
So when you're going into theconversation, you know what it is
that you're wanting to achievethat is positive.
(15:49):
The key thing in this is to becultivating trust, fostering a sense
of trust and togetherness.
Like, we're in this together.
This is not me against you.
This is our relationship.
This is our family.
This is our future.
So if we want this to bedifferent, it is for the benefit
(16:10):
of both of us.
And that's what I'm here for.
I'm here to try to make thisbetter for both of us.
I'm willing to own my part init, but I'm also needing you to come
to the table and own your ownpart in it.
But we're not saying that inan accusatory way.
We're just coming in with thepositive intention and coming in
with the shared goal.
Right, and the shared goal, Imean, to be honest, the shared goal,
(16:34):
the outcome might be that youdon't want to be in this relationship.
I'm saying all of this withthe assumption that you do.
It actually might be that you don't.
And it actually might be thatthe outcome that you're looking for
is to get you both on the samepage, that you would both be happier
not in this relationship anymore.
And if that's your decision,you know, you're.
You're entitled to make thatdecision, but you might just want
(16:55):
to be really hopeful that youcan get to that so that it's a shared
understanding and that.
And that you can both agreethat that's the best outcome.
Instead of feeling like you'repulling the rug out from underneath
somebody, you know, you mightwant to really be trying to facilitate
getting you both on the samepage with that being the best outcome.
So maybe that's the intentionof the conversation.
(17:16):
And I'll just say on thatpoint, by the way, I truly believe
that you are going to get abetter outcome if you are comfortable
within yourself that you couldlive without this relationship wouldn't
be what you want, maybewouldn't be what you would choose
necessarily, but that youwould be willing to walk away if
(17:37):
that is what is going to bethe best thing for you.
I think if you go into aconversation like this, knowing within
yourself, whether you say itout loud or not doesn't matter, but
knowing within yourself thatif the outcome is that this is not
redeemable, this relationshipcan't be saved, that you would be
accepting of it being over.
(17:57):
And the reason that I say thatis because when you're comfortable
with that, like when you'recomfortable that I might need to
walk away from this to behappy, it means that if you stay,
it's because.
Because you choose to stay.
It's because you choose tosay, not because you think there's
no other option.
If you think this is.
There is no other option.
If you're in this situation orif you're approaching this conversation
(18:17):
or if you are wondering whatto do about how you feel, which is
not happy.
And in your mind, separatingis not an option.
Divorce is not an option.
It's off the table.
That can't happen.
Unwilling to go there, you'rein a pretty compromised situation.
Like, you're going to be muchmore likely to make a whole lot of
compromises and to put up witha whole lot of stuff that is maybe
(18:39):
not going to be in your bestinterest because you're afraid of
the alternative.
You're afraid of risking the relationship.
If you're willing to risk therelationship, then you're much more
likely to raise all theissues, have all the hard conversations,
really get some proper change,you know, some meaningful change
(19:01):
in the dynamic of therelationship so that ultimately you
feel happy to stay and thatyou choose to stay and make it work.
Now, look, I don't know, maybethere'll be some people who disagree
with me on that.
Maybe some people who've gotvery strong Christian values who,
like, you know, you don't getdivorced, you've got to stick in
there, you've got to hang inthere, and you've got to make it
work.
Like, otherwise, too manypeople just walk away these days.
(19:22):
Too many people just throw itin and marriage means nothing anymore.
Well, you know, there'sarguments for marriage being a really
outdated, antiquatedinstitution which probably has run
its course, I don't know.
But I think that whole juststaying in it, sticking it out because
it's the done thing, becausethat's what you're supposed to do.
And because that's what yourfamily expects and your church expects
(19:43):
and your friends expect.
And you don't want to be thatperson to walk away from your marriage.
Like, I feel like that reallyputs you in a compromised situation
where you are much less likelyto really fight for and advocate
for and stand up for thechanges that you want to see that
are going to make you thehappiest and most satisfied that
(20:05):
you can be in that relationship.
You also know the two of youboth know that you are there because
you choose to be, not becauseyou feel like you're stuck there,
not because you feel like thisis your lot in life and you've just
got to suck it up and you'vejust got to make it work.
Because that's not really thegrounds for a happy, satisfying relationship,
is it?
Like, that's just, oh, well,there's no reason there to advocate
(20:30):
for change if you're just init for the long haul.
What motivation is there?
I don't know.
Like, there's nothing to risklosing because you know that you.
You're not going anywhere anyway.
That's a philosophical debate.
We can have some other time.
I just feel like, even in yourown mind, if you feel like you would
be willing to walk away, itmeans that if you stay, it's going
to be because you choose to.
And it's your life, and youonly get one.
(20:51):
I guess when you have thatconversation with your partner, too,
then once you do start thatinteraction and that dialogue, it's
really important to justobserve the dynamic in the exchange.
Now, this is potentially awhole other podcast episode about
those communication patternsand the default ways that people
(21:13):
respond and react.
But, you know, there is a partof you.
With mindfulness, I'm allabout mindfulness.
With mindfulness, there is apart of you that is in the conversation,
having the conversation, andthere is another part of you that
is observing the interaction.
You know that you wouldexperience that yourself, whether
you're a meditator or you areskilled at mindfulness or not.
Typically, you can be in a conversation.
(21:34):
We've all had the experienceof, you know, being in an argument.
And there's one part of usthat's there having the argument
and another part of us that'sup in our head going, what the fuck?
Are we even.
Why are we even having this argument?
This is ridiculous.
You know that, right?
There's this part of you thatwitnesses, and there's this part
of you that's actually engagednow, keeping that witnessing part
on board.
Can be really helpful whileyou have that conversation.
(21:57):
So you're not just followingthe content of the conversation,
talking about what it is thatyou want for the relationship, talking
about where you might bedissatisfied, asking your partner
what they want or what theywould see differently or how satisfied
they are.
There's all of that back andforth about the content, but then
there's the actual process ofhow you interact, and that is actually
(22:19):
more important.
So observing whether there isavoiding a question or turning things
around and putting them backon you, or avoidance of responsibility,
even in yourself, observe yourown patterns.
Are you bringing up thingsthat happened 15 years ago that should
be let go?
Are you getting triggered bycertain things that are happening
(22:41):
or things that your partner'ssaying that you know are not helpful
to this current conversation?
So just keeping one eye, ifit's possible, on the dynamics of
that interaction, Any tendencyto stonewall, get up, walk out of
the room, refuse to engage ina difficult conversation, escalate
into a conflict, and just havethe presence of mind, if possible,
(23:06):
to be able to manage thatdynamic, to be able to have the presence
of mind, to be able to say,this is not going well, maybe we
need to take a break from this.
Maybe I got off track there.
Or to reflect back to them.
You actually.
I'm not sure if you noticed,but you didn't actually answer the
question then.
I'm feeling like this, I'mobserving this, I'm noticing this.
(23:29):
Like speaking to your ownexperience without going into, there
you go again.
You always do this.
You always change the subject.
You always bring up this.
You know, you don't want to gointo that.
Be really mindful of not goinginto that.
Attacking, accusatory,critical kind of language, and keep
the focus on, you know, what'shappening right here in this moment,
(23:51):
in this dynamic, Taking apause and taking a break if you need
to.
But like I said, that'sprobably a whole other conversation.
And then I think, last but notleast, and this probably goes without
saying, what you reallywanting to do, I think, is to get
back on board with a sharedvision for this relationship.
Where is this going?
If you've been with yourpartner for a really long time, like,
(24:13):
if it's the same person you'vebeen married to for your whole life
or it's been a really longtime, maybe even if it's your second
marriage or whatever, but whenyou're first together, there are
certain priorities.
You're at a certain point inyour working life, you might have
had young kids, you might havehad Kids together.
There's a lot of focus on allof these other things in life.
And then you get to this pointwhere the focus is shifted.
(24:34):
Kids have grown up, kids aremoving out.
You're at a different point inyour career.
You're starting to looktowards, you know, when are we retiring?
Where do we want to spend ourlater years?
You're starting to really lookat priorities shifting as you get
older.
And so if you don't already,if you haven't already had those
conversations, how do you getback on board with a shared vision
(24:55):
for this relationship in the future?
Like, how do you tap back intosome sense of enthusiasm and excitement
for the future of thisrelationship, like you did when you
were first together?
Like when you were firsttogether and you had big plans and
dreams about the life you'regoing to create and the house we're
going to decorate and the kidswere going to have and the.
All of the things, right,you've moved past that now.
(25:16):
So what's the new vision?
Where's it going?
How do you want to spend laterlife together?
And if it's feeling like it'snot like, if it's feeling like I'm
going down one path andthey're going down this other path
and not there's no together,there's no us in this, then maybe
that's what the conversationis about.
It's like, well, how do we getback on board with a shared vision?
(25:39):
What are our shared priorities?
What are we working towards together?
But like I said, at the end ofthe day, do you feel seen, heard,
felt understood?
Do you feel like you canexpress what your needs are, have
them heard, have them validated?
These are really the issues.
Like, this is really usuallywhat the problem is when you're feeling
(26:02):
a disconnect in your relationship.
All the surface level stuff,all the behavioral stuff, they're
usually more like symptoms orbyproducts of a deeper level of emotional
disconnection.
So how you go about gettingthat back really comes down to emotional
maturity.
A willingness to reallydevelop the skills within yourself
(26:23):
to be mindful and to regulateyourself, regulate your own emotions,
separate the past from thepresent and feel safe to communicate
and express what it is thatyou really need.
And then see what happens, seewhat feedback you get.
And based on what feedback youget is going to determine what your
next step is, isn't it?
Like, all you're doing isputting something out there and seeing
(26:46):
what comes back.
I hope that is helpful.
Obviously, half an hourpodcast isn't going to solve all
of the problems of the world.
But given that this has comeup quite a lot, and especially women
in this sort of age, middleage, long term relationships, priorities
shifting, feeling emotionallyunsupported, who have spent many
years looking out foreverybody else's needs and have come
(27:07):
to a where they look aroundand there's not much there anymore.
And maybe there's a lot ofother things that need to be worked
on as well in terms ofbuilding up your own sense of yourself
and your interests and yourpassion projects and cultivating
really high quality friendships.
But your primary relationshipis also a really big part of that.
It's also a really bigcontributor to your satisfaction
(27:29):
in life.
So if that is an issue foryou, hope that you're able to navigate
some of those conversationsand obviously seek out some professional
help to facilitate the conversations.
If you feel like there's abreakdown there, that is it from
me.
You guys.
Now we are currently in themidst of our new series in the Beyond
Happy paid subscription podcast.
(27:51):
It's only $10 a month, noteven that.
And it is called Mindfulnessand then Want, where I am actually
releasing two episodes a week,all based on how mindfulness and
related skills and processescan help you live a healthier, happier,
more connected life.
And some of it is actuallyquite relevant to this topic of relationship
(28:14):
skills and your own emotionalregulation, your own attachment issues.
So if you want to join in forthat, even just for a month, then
either come to my substack andor Spotify and opt in that way.
Substack and Spotify areconnected or you can just press the
upgrade button.
In Apple podcasts you can joinfor a month, you can join for a year
and you get the privatepodcast and you get lots of other
(28:39):
things which we're kicking offgroup calls, webinars, things like
that.
So if you want to join in onthat, highly recommend.
It's only very new fledglingand still really small, but I'm excited
to grow that community.
But yes, mindfulness and then what?
Lots of good stuff in thismonth's new series, so I'd love to
(29:01):
see you there.
Have a great week.
I cannot wait to catch younext next week for another fabulous
episode of Crabby to Happy.
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