July 29, 2025 • 21 mins
When Carly's doctor told her it was time to consider surrogacy after 25 failed IVF transfers, her sister Sophie had already made an offer that would transform their family forever. After eight years of trying and watching all her siblings grow their families while she couldn't, Carly was about to embark on the most emotionally complex journey of her life.
In today's episode, Carly vulnerably shares the profound experience of watching her sister carry her biological child—from the struggle to connect with the baby growing in Sophie's body to the overwhelming moment when Goldie was born and she could finally hold her daughter. The story takes an even more remarkable turn when Carly discovers she can actually carry a pregnancy herself, leading to the birth of her son Freddie just three weeks before our interview.
Carly reflects on finding peace in potentially living child-free, the toxic positivity surrounding infertility, and how sometimes letting go can be more powerful than holding on.
Diary Of A Birth features mums sharing their heartfelt stories of bringing life into the world. Share your birth story at podcast@mamamia.com.au or send a voice note here.
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CREDITS:
Host: Ksenija Lukich
Birth Story: Carly Prebble
Producers: Ksenija Lukich & Ella Maitland
Audio Producer: Tina Matolov
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Ab
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects
to elders past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to
continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has
been a fundamental part of Indigenous culture.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I'm Cassinia Lukitch and this is Diary of a Birth.
We've spoken about surrogacy and infertility a few times on
the pod, but today's story has an added layer. After
years of trying, twenty three rounds of IVF and constant setbacks,
Today's mum turned to her sister, a sister who offered
(01:10):
to carry her child.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
My sister Sophie offered before we were really ready to
commit to surrogacy, and we said to her that we
would wait for our doctor to tell us that it
was time to consider surrogacy. So when the time came
after my last failed cycle, he said it's time to
speak to Sophie and Sewan.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And despite feeling like her body failed her and the
complex emotions of seeing her sister carrie a child she
knew was biologically hers, she finally had her much wanted
baby but the story doesn't end there. In what can
only be described as a miracle, today's mum did actually
have the pregnancy she always wanted. So while today's story
(01:52):
is about her first baby, Goldie, it's also about her
second child, Freddy. So let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Hi, I'm Carli. This is the diary of my birth
with Goldie.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So Carly, your story is really really interesting. But you've
got a little three week old crying in the background,
So if we hear little cries, that's what that is.
But can you tell us about your journey to conceiving
and your journey to actually having Goldie.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, so my husband Kurt and I were married in
twenty fifteen and we felt pregnant quite quickly, and unfortunately
that resulted in a miscarriage and yeah, it was a
blighted over and I had a DNC and then after
that we unfortunately weren't able to fell pregnant for years
(02:46):
and that resulted in quite a lot of IVF and yeah,
we had unexplained infertility.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, how many rounds of IVF did she go through?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
We ended up having approximately twenty five rounds of IVF,
so that entailed eleven egg collections and twenty five embryo transfers,
which they were top quality embryos that were transferred to me.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah. We didn't have a chemical, a miscarriage, nothing, It
was just every single transfer failed.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
That's so crazy. I mean, I I've had an egg
collection before, and even doing one of them was hard.
I can't even imagine going through the hormones and injections
of eleven.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
That must have been very mentally taxing on you and
your partner.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Yeah, it was. It was a really difficult time.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I think ultimately it's made us stronger.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah. Now, eventually your doctor sort of suggested that it
might be time to go down the sarrogacy route. Yes,
and your sister actually offered to be your surrogate.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
My sister, Sophie offered before we were really ready to
commit to surrogacy, and we said to her that we
would wait for our doctor to tell us that it
was time to consider surrogacy. He knew that Sophie and
her husband Sean had offered, so when the time came
after my last failed cycle, he said, it's time to
speak to Sophie and Sean.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah. Obviously, your sister agreed to do this. But was
that a complex feeling for you? Very Because before we
recorded this interview, we spoke about you got three other siblings.
You've got two brothers and a sister, Yes, all of
whom had children whilst you were trying.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Yeah, so there's four of us. I'm the eldest, and
I've got two brothers and a sister. Yep.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
How was it for you seeing your siblings grow their
family when you guys weren't able to.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
It was really hard.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
While I've always been, you know, such a baby person
and so maternal and obviously so excited to have babies
in the family, it was really heartbreaking because I felt
like with them.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
I didn't have a poker face.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
They could see straight through me, and they could see
how heartbroken Kurt and I were at that time, and
I just felt like I couldn't share the journey with them.
It was such an important and special time for them,
and I had to step away because it was too
hard for everybody.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, it's kind of one of those really challenging feelings
where you're you want to be happy for them, but
it is so hard for you to just pretend like
you're okay with it.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Yeah, And they could see, they could see through it.
They know me so well.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, but it was.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Also so difficult for them.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
They felt like they had to, you know, cover up
such joy in their life, and that made me feel
so uncomfortable because I don't want anyone to have to
do that. So, yeah, it was really hard, particularly when
Sophie was pregnant with my niece.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, when Sophie agreed to be your surrogate, how long
did the process take for her to get pregnant.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
It was a little bit longer for us because Sophie
and Sean wanted a second child, and with regards to
the risks with surrogacy and the risks that you know,
come with giving birth, it was decided that they would
have their baby straight away and then we would look.
So whilst Sophie felt pregnant, and while she was pregnant,
(06:19):
I did to egg collections just to have some embryors
in the bank for her when she was ready to transfer.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Okay, so how long after she had your niece was
she ready to go again?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
She had my nephew, So she had she had a
little girl, and she had my nephew in the January.
Six weeks later, she got cleared by her obstetrician, and
it's a really long process of legals and counseling. You
actually have to be approved through the board at what
we were at IVF Australia, so it's quite a long process.
So he was born in the January and we transferred
(06:55):
Goldie's I think we were approved in the May and
transferred in September, so.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
It's only sort of nine months after she gave birth.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Yeah, yeah, push. We pushed forward.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Because she was ready and she wanted to just not
get it done, but she it's something that she committed
to and she was very eager to get started o
Kurt and I obviously would have given her all the
time in the world, but.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah, she was really keen to get started. So that's
how it panned out.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
And tell me about finding out that she was pregnant
with your baby.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
It was so surreal because of our history. There was
so much of me holding back, not believing that it
was real. So when we heard her heartbeat, that's a
point I obviously never got to. So that's when I
really started to believe that it was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, and I imagine that everybody in your family would
have just been so thrilled for you and Kurt.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
They were they It was such a huge time for
my whole family, my parents and my in laws in particular. Yeah,
it was just it was unbelievable. It was so nerve wracking,
and you know, it was such a big process. We
also didn't tell anyone that we were doing the surrogacy
process except for our parents, So my brothers actually didn't
(08:12):
know until Sophie was pregnant. Oh wow, Yeah, which might
seem strange, but I just the thought of breaking their
hearts again if it didn't work was too much, so
we actually didn't even tell anyone.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
So it was Yeah, it was a big surprise, and
that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And in terms of obviously you can't speak for Sophie,
but what was the pregnancy like for her and what
was it like for you watching your sister carry your child? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:38):
God, where do I start.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Sophie doesn't have easy pregnancies, so she was very sick
for about twenty weeks, which blows my mind even more.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
But it was hard.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
It was watching her be pregnant. My brain told me
that that was her baby. It was really hard to connect.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
With what was my baby? That was growing in her
and also seeing her suffer so much, and she hid
a lot of it from me, but seeing her suffer,
like you know, she's my younger sister, being protective of
her as well. It was a really challenging time emotionally.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Was there any yearning from you that you wanted to
I don't know if jealousy is the right term, but yeah,
not being able to do it yourself. Did you feel
some kind of like, yeah, jealousy in that phrase, because
I imagine that would be really hard.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Yeah, it was probably one of the hardest parts.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
That it's something that I wanted so badly for my
entire life, and I had to, you know, just accept
the fact that I wasn't going to be pregnant and
this is what I had to do for my baby,
and it's what I had to do for Kirk to
become a father. Also in the background, you don't want
to come off as ungrateful, because I was just so
(09:52):
unbelievably grateful, but it was still really painful at the
same time having to let go of that.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, after Sophie starts to feel better, was the pregnancy okay,
like any health issues, any problems.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
No, I wouldn't say there was problems.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Like being her third pregnancy, it wasn't easy on her
as the you know, as the pregnancy went on. My
baby was also a lot bigger than hers, which was
a little bit uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
But yeah, aches and pains and you know, just the
normal stuff. But once she got over her nausea and
she actually was diagnosed with HG, so she was really unwell.
Once she got over that, it was just planning for
the delivery really. Yeah, it was in the middle as well,
so that was quite tricky.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, what was the delivery process like during COVID were
you able to be with her?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Well?
Speaker 4 (10:41):
We had planned for her to have a cesarean.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Her doctor thought that that would be better on her
body because she wanted to continue to have a family
after being a surrogate. So that was planned for the Wednesday,
and she actually went into labor on the Tuesday night.
So we were told for the cesarian we wouldn't be
all out in theater and her husband Sean was going
(11:04):
to be with her and we were going to wait
in the room on the ward. At that stage, we
didn't know if Goldie was a boy or a girl,
so they were just going to wheel her in with
a little bow on her head or a little beanie
on but it changed and luckily enough, Kurt and Sean
and I were able to be in the room with
Sophie while she liver.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
So it was very special.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Oh well that would have been amazing.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
It was, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
It was hard seeing her in so much pain and
there was absolutely nothing I could do. But yeah, she
did what she does best, and she'd done it twice before,
and yeah, it was very special.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
So she ended up having a vaginal delivery.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
She did. Yep. Goldie decided to come early at thirty
seven and.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Four days, so yeah. She At one point she said, my,
well she was in labor. Am I going to go
down and have a CESAIA now? And said, no, you're
too far along. You'll deliver on the operating table. So yeah,
that's how it went, and it ended up going really well.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, so Goldie comes out. You see it's a girl. Yeah,
described to me that first moment of meeting her.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Oh, it was incredible, Like I said, I didn't.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
I really struggled associating that Sophie was carrying my baby,
not her own.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
And when I saw her head come out and she
was turned and I saw her little face. I just
instantly just thought, oh my god, that is my baby,
and I was yeah, I was down there and Kurt
was behind me holding my hand, and they pulled her
out and they said what is it, and we both
at the same time screamed, it's the girl.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
And I just was hysterically crying. It was just the
best moment of my life. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Oh wow, Yeah, what was your sister and her husband
doing at this time? Were they crying as well? I
imagine it would have been a room full of emotion,
of course.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Yeah, yeah, the midwives, it certainly was.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Sean was actually taking a video, so that was really handy,
but he was, Yeah, he was there, and I mean
it gets quite technical. I didn't want the baby to
be passed straight to me because I wanted Sophie's body
to recognize that she had birthed the baby.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
So she had a little towel on her chest.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
And they put the baby on her, but immediately she
was like, oh, this is too much.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
So Goldie came to me and I had.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Skin to skin and I also induced slactation, so I
was able to breastfeed Goldie immediately.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Oh, that would have been so special.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Yeah, it was. I just felt like it was really
important for me to bond with her. So yeah, it
was all happening.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
And this is making me a bit emotional, like I
just I'm such an EmPATH like I forgold Just imagine
how what a relief it would have been for you
to hold your child after eight years of trying to
have a baby and holding your baby for the first
time and being able to feed her. Yeah, from your body. Yeah,
(14:02):
finally your body is doing well.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Yeah, that's the other thing.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah, my dad's doing something I needed it to do,
which was really big emotionally for me. Yeah, she was
born a little early, but she was big and she
was happy, and it was honestly just a dream cometruy.
I just could not believe that the moment that you know,
we been fighting for for so long was actually there
and I was holding our baby. Goldie is genetically mine
(14:26):
and Kurt's baby, so yeah, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
I often think about that because you know, something I
think doesn't get talked about a lot is how much
you feel like your body is failing you. And it
is so frustrating because it feels like it's you know,
this is what this is what I'm supposed to be doing.
Why can't I do it? Why can't I do it?
It's just like this. You beat yourself up so much
when you go through that infertility. Yeah, so I can
(14:52):
just imagine that that feeling of relief and joy and
having that.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
So Goldie is three now, Yeah, does she know that
her auntie Sophie carried her? Does she know any of
that yet?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah? Yeah. We have a book that we read to her.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
It's called The Very Kind Koala, and The Kind Koala has,
you know, a baby in her pouch and then once
the baby comes out of her pouch, she gives the
baby to the baby's mummy and daddy. So she understands that.
She knows that her auntie, that you growing her Auntie's belly,
and she's known that forever. I show her photos and
videos and yeah, she understands that. I think she thinks
(15:28):
it's very normal and it's not.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
But that's her normal.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, it is her normal. And I think it's a
beautiful way to explain it.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Coming up, it still doesn't seem real.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
It's I just cannot believe it actually happened, and even
though he was still ivy, if it's an absolute miracle
for me to be able to actually feel pregnant and
carry him was something we never ever thought was possible.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Then you decided to have a second child.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Yeah, so we knew that we wouldn't do surrogacy again.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Sophie and Sean were going to continue with building their family,
and it's not something that we would ever expect them
to do for us. Again, she looked at surrogacy overseas,
you're looking at two three hundred thousand dollars. At that point,
we were just so grateful to be parents and to
have Goldie. But I had nine I think nine embryos saved.
(16:25):
So we decided that we would transfer those embryos to me,
and with no expectation that they would work. Of course,
we'd had so many failed transfers. So we transferred an
embryo and it actually took, so we were just over
the moon, But unfortunately.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
That ended in a miscarriage, and that miscarriage was a
genetic issue with the embryo. It was a complete fluke
and I had nothing to do with my body. But
that pregnancy gave us hope, which we'd never had, so
we decided to try again, which resulted in a failed transfer,
and then the transfer after that has resulted in my son,
(17:07):
who I had three weeks ago, so massive turn of events.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I had to bring this up because, you know, I
after so many years, Yeah, to finally be carrying a baby,
finally have a pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, it's still it still doesn't seem real. It's I
just cannot believe it actually happened. And even though he
was still IVF, it's an absolute miracle. IVFS normal to me,
but for me to be able to actually feel pregnant
and carry him was something we never ever thought that
was possible.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Well, he's here, he is, He's here and happy. I'm
sure Sophie was thrilled for you to be experiencing pregnancy
as well.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
She was.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
She actually when he was born, and she came and
met him the day was born. That's I think when
it hit her.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
So soph and I were, I think in a bit
of denial the whole time, even though my belly was growing,
and it wasn't until he was born and she kind
of saw me in the hospital and I think it
kind of hit her then that, Yeah, she actually was
pregnant at the same time. Oh wow, Yeah, so we
were pregnant together. She had a daughter, Valley in March.
So yeah, it was very special.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
That's special. Yeah, that's something that you kind of dream
of as a sister, like being pregnant together, like having
having babies together. I feel like that's such a normal
process to think of, and to have that after so
much time would have been a really special bond for
the two of you.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yeah, we were so lucky.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
We have experienced so much together, but then to experience
pregnancies together was really special.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah. And he's here now, Freddie three weeks old, making
some noise in the background.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Yeah, hiccuffing.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Is Goldie a good big sister?
Speaker 4 (18:53):
She is a good big sister. She loves him.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
She's hit three at the same time. So it was
a bit of an interesting journey there. But with regards
of being a sister, yeah, she's great.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
And what about any advice you would have for people
going through infertility and keeping going after all that time?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah, I think, well, my advice is probably a bit controversial,
but I think there's a lot of toxic positivity around
infertility and trying for a baby, and I personally think
that there's more strength in letting go than there is
in continuing to keep killing yourself trying to have a baby.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
So I actually found peace in.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Looking at what my life would look like without children
and the positive, you know, life that I could lead
with Kurt. It was my nightmare. I didn't the last
thing I wanted was to you know, not have children.
But I felt like that gave me some peace that
if worst came to worse, I could still be happy.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I don't think that's controversial at all. I think that
that's actually a really wonderful take.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
I just know a podcast about you know, people that
chose to live their life child free, and I really
just found that so helpful that along with have other
interests in your life.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
It's so easy for it to just.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Consume everything, and it does anyway, but there's got to
be something else that you're putting your focus on as well.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
It's too hard to do otherwise.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, and it's free. A good baby. Is he treating
you well?
Speaker 4 (20:23):
He is?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
He hasn't really woken up yet, so I don't want
to talk too soon, but he's eating and sleeping and
pooling and doing all the things that you want your
baby to do.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
So yeah, it's it's a dreams so far.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. It's
really remarkable to hear about. You know, what a beautiful
thing for your sister to do for you, and what
a way to bond the two of you. So thank
you so much for sharing your story. And I'm so
happy that you know you've got your two babies, and
you know, even after all of those hard years, you're
able to still have your family.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
Yeah, we're so lucky. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Kasenu lu Kitsch.
If you like our show, don't forget to subscribe and rate.
It goes a long way to allowing us to continue
sharing your stories. This episode was produced by Ella Maitland
and myself kasen You Luke, with audio production by Tina Mettalov.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Mm hmm
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects
to elders past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to
continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has
been a fundamental part of Indigenous culture.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
I'm Cassinia Lukitch and this is Diary of a Birth.
We've spoken about surrogacy and infertility a few times on
the pod, but today's story has an added layer. After
years of trying, twenty three rounds of IVF and constant setbacks,
Today's mum turned to her sister, a sister who offered
(01:10):
to carry her child.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
My sister Sophie offered before we were really ready to
commit to surrogacy, and we said to her that we
would wait for our doctor to tell us that it
was time to consider surrogacy. So when the time came
after my last failed cycle, he said it's time to
speak to Sophie and Sewan.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And despite feeling like her body failed her and the
complex emotions of seeing her sister carrie a child she
knew was biologically hers, she finally had her much wanted
baby but the story doesn't end there. In what can
only be described as a miracle, today's mum did actually
have the pregnancy she always wanted. So while today's story
(01:52):
is about her first baby, Goldie, it's also about her
second child, Freddy. So let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Hi, I'm Carli. This is the diary of my birth
with Goldie.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So Carly, your story is really really interesting. But you've
got a little three week old crying in the background,
So if we hear little cries, that's what that is.
But can you tell us about your journey to conceiving
and your journey to actually having Goldie.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, so my husband Kurt and I were married in
twenty fifteen and we felt pregnant quite quickly, and unfortunately
that resulted in a miscarriage and yeah, it was a
blighted over and I had a DNC and then after
that we unfortunately weren't able to fell pregnant for years
(02:46):
and that resulted in quite a lot of IVF and yeah,
we had unexplained infertility.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, how many rounds of IVF did she go through?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
We ended up having approximately twenty five rounds of IVF,
so that entailed eleven egg collections and twenty five embryo transfers,
which they were top quality embryos that were transferred to me.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah. We didn't have a chemical, a miscarriage, nothing, It
was just every single transfer failed.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
That's so crazy. I mean, I I've had an egg
collection before, and even doing one of them was hard.
I can't even imagine going through the hormones and injections
of eleven.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
That must have been very mentally taxing on you and
your partner.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Yeah, it was. It was a really difficult time.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I think ultimately it's made us stronger.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah. Now, eventually your doctor sort of suggested that it
might be time to go down the sarrogacy route. Yes,
and your sister actually offered to be your surrogate.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
My sister, Sophie offered before we were really ready to
commit to surrogacy, and we said to her that we
would wait for our doctor to tell us that it
was time to consider surrogacy. He knew that Sophie and
her husband Sean had offered, so when the time came
after my last failed cycle, he said, it's time to
speak to Sophie and Sean.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah. Obviously, your sister agreed to do this. But was
that a complex feeling for you? Very Because before we
recorded this interview, we spoke about you got three other siblings.
You've got two brothers and a sister, Yes, all of
whom had children whilst you were trying.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
Yeah, so there's four of us. I'm the eldest, and
I've got two brothers and a sister. Yep.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
How was it for you seeing your siblings grow their
family when you guys weren't able to.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
It was really hard.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
While I've always been, you know, such a baby person
and so maternal and obviously so excited to have babies
in the family, it was really heartbreaking because I felt
like with them.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
I didn't have a poker face.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
They could see straight through me, and they could see
how heartbroken Kurt and I were at that time, and
I just felt like I couldn't share the journey with them.
It was such an important and special time for them,
and I had to step away because it was too
hard for everybody.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, it's kind of one of those really challenging feelings
where you're you want to be happy for them, but
it is so hard for you to just pretend like
you're okay with it.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Yeah, And they could see, they could see through it.
They know me so well.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, but it was.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Also so difficult for them.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
They felt like they had to, you know, cover up
such joy in their life, and that made me feel
so uncomfortable because I don't want anyone to have to
do that. So, yeah, it was really hard, particularly when
Sophie was pregnant with my niece.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, when Sophie agreed to be your surrogate, how long
did the process take for her to get pregnant.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
It was a little bit longer for us because Sophie
and Sean wanted a second child, and with regards to
the risks with surrogacy and the risks that you know,
come with giving birth, it was decided that they would
have their baby straight away and then we would look.
So whilst Sophie felt pregnant, and while she was pregnant,
(06:19):
I did to egg collections just to have some embryors
in the bank for her when she was ready to transfer.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Okay, so how long after she had your niece was
she ready to go again?
Speaker 3 (06:31):
She had my nephew, So she had she had a
little girl, and she had my nephew in the January.
Six weeks later, she got cleared by her obstetrician, and
it's a really long process of legals and counseling. You
actually have to be approved through the board at what
we were at IVF Australia, so it's quite a long process.
So he was born in the January and we transferred
(06:55):
Goldie's I think we were approved in the May and
transferred in September, so.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
It's only sort of nine months after she gave birth.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Yeah, yeah, push. We pushed forward.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Because she was ready and she wanted to just not
get it done, but she it's something that she committed
to and she was very eager to get started o
Kurt and I obviously would have given her all the
time in the world, but.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah, she was really keen to get started. So that's
how it panned out.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
And tell me about finding out that she was pregnant
with your baby.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
It was so surreal because of our history. There was
so much of me holding back, not believing that it
was real. So when we heard her heartbeat, that's a
point I obviously never got to. So that's when I
really started to believe that it was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, and I imagine that everybody in your family would
have just been so thrilled for you and Kurt.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
They were they It was such a huge time for
my whole family, my parents and my in laws in particular. Yeah,
it was just it was unbelievable. It was so nerve wracking,
and you know, it was such a big process. We
also didn't tell anyone that we were doing the surrogacy
process except for our parents, So my brothers actually didn't
(08:12):
know until Sophie was pregnant. Oh wow, Yeah, which might
seem strange, but I just the thought of breaking their
hearts again if it didn't work was too much, so
we actually didn't even tell anyone.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
So it was Yeah, it was a big surprise, and
that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And in terms of obviously you can't speak for Sophie,
but what was the pregnancy like for her and what
was it like for you watching your sister carry your child? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:38):
God, where do I start.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Sophie doesn't have easy pregnancies, so she was very sick
for about twenty weeks, which blows my mind even more.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
But it was hard.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
It was watching her be pregnant. My brain told me
that that was her baby. It was really hard to connect.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
With what was my baby? That was growing in her
and also seeing her suffer so much, and she hid
a lot of it from me, but seeing her suffer,
like you know, she's my younger sister, being protective of
her as well. It was a really challenging time emotionally.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Was there any yearning from you that you wanted to
I don't know if jealousy is the right term, but yeah,
not being able to do it yourself. Did you feel
some kind of like, yeah, jealousy in that phrase, because
I imagine that would be really hard.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Yeah, it was probably one of the hardest parts.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
That it's something that I wanted so badly for my
entire life, and I had to, you know, just accept
the fact that I wasn't going to be pregnant and
this is what I had to do for my baby,
and it's what I had to do for Kirk to
become a father. Also in the background, you don't want
to come off as ungrateful, because I was just so
(09:52):
unbelievably grateful, but it was still really painful at the
same time having to let go of that.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, after Sophie starts to feel better, was the pregnancy okay,
like any health issues, any problems.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
No, I wouldn't say there was problems.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Like being her third pregnancy, it wasn't easy on her
as the you know, as the pregnancy went on. My
baby was also a lot bigger than hers, which was
a little bit uncomfortable.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
But yeah, aches and pains and you know, just the
normal stuff. But once she got over her nausea and
she actually was diagnosed with HG, so she was really unwell.
Once she got over that, it was just planning for
the delivery really. Yeah, it was in the middle as well,
so that was quite tricky.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, what was the delivery process like during COVID were
you able to be with her?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Well?
Speaker 4 (10:41):
We had planned for her to have a cesarean.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Her doctor thought that that would be better on her
body because she wanted to continue to have a family
after being a surrogate. So that was planned for the Wednesday,
and she actually went into labor on the Tuesday night.
So we were told for the cesarian we wouldn't be
all out in theater and her husband Sean was going
(11:04):
to be with her and we were going to wait
in the room on the ward. At that stage, we
didn't know if Goldie was a boy or a girl,
so they were just going to wheel her in with
a little bow on her head or a little beanie
on but it changed and luckily enough, Kurt and Sean
and I were able to be in the room with
Sophie while she liver.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
So it was very special.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Oh well that would have been amazing.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
It was, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
It was hard seeing her in so much pain and
there was absolutely nothing I could do. But yeah, she
did what she does best, and she'd done it twice before,
and yeah, it was very special.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
So she ended up having a vaginal delivery.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
She did. Yep. Goldie decided to come early at thirty
seven and.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Four days, so yeah. She At one point she said, my,
well she was in labor. Am I going to go
down and have a CESAIA now? And said, no, you're
too far along. You'll deliver on the operating table. So yeah,
that's how it went, and it ended up going really well.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, so Goldie comes out. You see it's a girl. Yeah,
described to me that first moment of meeting her.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Oh, it was incredible, Like I said, I didn't.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
I really struggled associating that Sophie was carrying my baby,
not her own.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
And when I saw her head come out and she
was turned and I saw her little face. I just
instantly just thought, oh my god, that is my baby,
and I was yeah, I was down there and Kurt
was behind me holding my hand, and they pulled her
out and they said what is it, and we both
at the same time screamed, it's the girl.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
And I just was hysterically crying. It was just the
best moment of my life. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Oh wow, Yeah, what was your sister and her husband
doing at this time? Were they crying as well? I
imagine it would have been a room full of emotion,
of course.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Yeah, yeah, the midwives, it certainly was.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Sean was actually taking a video, so that was really handy,
but he was, Yeah, he was there, and I mean
it gets quite technical. I didn't want the baby to
be passed straight to me because I wanted Sophie's body
to recognize that she had birthed the baby.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
So she had a little towel on her chest.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
And they put the baby on her, but immediately she
was like, oh, this is too much.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
So Goldie came to me and I had.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Skin to skin and I also induced slactation, so I
was able to breastfeed Goldie immediately.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Oh, that would have been so special.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Yeah, it was. I just felt like it was really
important for me to bond with her. So yeah, it
was all happening.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
And this is making me a bit emotional, like I
just I'm such an EmPATH like I forgold Just imagine
how what a relief it would have been for you
to hold your child after eight years of trying to
have a baby and holding your baby for the first
time and being able to feed her. Yeah, from your body. Yeah,
(14:02):
finally your body is doing well.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Yeah, that's the other thing.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah, my dad's doing something I needed it to do,
which was really big emotionally for me. Yeah, she was
born a little early, but she was big and she
was happy, and it was honestly just a dream cometruy.
I just could not believe that the moment that you know,
we been fighting for for so long was actually there
and I was holding our baby. Goldie is genetically mine
(14:26):
and Kurt's baby, so yeah, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
I often think about that because you know, something I
think doesn't get talked about a lot is how much
you feel like your body is failing you. And it
is so frustrating because it feels like it's you know,
this is what this is what I'm supposed to be doing.
Why can't I do it? Why can't I do it?
It's just like this. You beat yourself up so much
when you go through that infertility. Yeah, so I can
(14:52):
just imagine that that feeling of relief and joy and
having that.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
So Goldie is three now, Yeah, does she know that
her auntie Sophie carried her? Does she know any of
that yet?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah? Yeah. We have a book that we read to her.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
It's called The Very Kind Koala, and The Kind Koala has,
you know, a baby in her pouch and then once
the baby comes out of her pouch, she gives the
baby to the baby's mummy and daddy. So she understands that.
She knows that her auntie, that you growing her Auntie's belly,
and she's known that forever. I show her photos and
videos and yeah, she understands that. I think she thinks
(15:28):
it's very normal and it's not.
Speaker 4 (15:31):
But that's her normal.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, it is her normal. And I think it's a
beautiful way to explain it.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
Coming up, it still doesn't seem real.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
It's I just cannot believe it actually happened, and even
though he was still ivy, if it's an absolute miracle
for me to be able to actually feel pregnant and
carry him was something we never ever thought was possible.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Then you decided to have a second child.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Yeah, so we knew that we wouldn't do surrogacy again.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Sophie and Sean were going to continue with building their family,
and it's not something that we would ever expect them
to do for us. Again, she looked at surrogacy overseas,
you're looking at two three hundred thousand dollars. At that point,
we were just so grateful to be parents and to
have Goldie. But I had nine I think nine embryos saved.
(16:25):
So we decided that we would transfer those embryos to me,
and with no expectation that they would work. Of course,
we'd had so many failed transfers. So we transferred an
embryo and it actually took, so we were just over
the moon, But unfortunately.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
That ended in a miscarriage, and that miscarriage was a
genetic issue with the embryo. It was a complete fluke
and I had nothing to do with my body. But
that pregnancy gave us hope, which we'd never had, so
we decided to try again, which resulted in a failed transfer,
and then the transfer after that has resulted in my son,
(17:07):
who I had three weeks ago, so massive turn of events.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I had to bring this up because, you know, I
after so many years, Yeah, to finally be carrying a baby,
finally have a pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, it's still it still doesn't seem real. It's I
just cannot believe it actually happened. And even though he
was still IVF, it's an absolute miracle. IVFS normal to me,
but for me to be able to actually feel pregnant
and carry him was something we never ever thought that
was possible.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Well, he's here, he is, He's here and happy. I'm
sure Sophie was thrilled for you to be experiencing pregnancy
as well.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
She was.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
She actually when he was born, and she came and
met him the day was born. That's I think when
it hit her.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
So soph and I were, I think in a bit
of denial the whole time, even though my belly was growing,
and it wasn't until he was born and she kind
of saw me in the hospital and I think it
kind of hit her then that, Yeah, she actually was
pregnant at the same time. Oh wow, Yeah, so we
were pregnant together. She had a daughter, Valley in March.
So yeah, it was very special.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
That's special. Yeah, that's something that you kind of dream
of as a sister, like being pregnant together, like having
having babies together. I feel like that's such a normal
process to think of, and to have that after so
much time would have been a really special bond for
the two of you.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yeah, we were so lucky.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
We have experienced so much together, but then to experience
pregnancies together was really special.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah. And he's here now, Freddie three weeks old, making
some noise in the background.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Yeah, hiccuffing.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Is Goldie a good big sister?
Speaker 4 (18:53):
She is a good big sister. She loves him.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
She's hit three at the same time. So it was
a bit of an interesting journey there. But with regards
of being a sister, yeah, she's great.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
And what about any advice you would have for people
going through infertility and keeping going after all that time?
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Yeah, I think, well, my advice is probably a bit controversial,
but I think there's a lot of toxic positivity around
infertility and trying for a baby, and I personally think
that there's more strength in letting go than there is
in continuing to keep killing yourself trying to have a baby.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
So I actually found peace in.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
Looking at what my life would look like without children
and the positive, you know, life that I could lead
with Kurt. It was my nightmare. I didn't the last
thing I wanted was to you know, not have children.
But I felt like that gave me some peace that
if worst came to worse, I could still be happy.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I don't think that's controversial at all. I think that
that's actually a really wonderful take.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
I just know a podcast about you know, people that
chose to live their life child free, and I really
just found that so helpful that along with have other
interests in your life.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
It's so easy for it to just.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Consume everything, and it does anyway, but there's got to
be something else that you're putting your focus on as well.
Speaker 4 (20:16):
It's too hard to do otherwise.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, and it's free. A good baby. Is he treating
you well?
Speaker 4 (20:23):
He is?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
He hasn't really woken up yet, so I don't want
to talk too soon, but he's eating and sleeping and
pooling and doing all the things that you want your
baby to do.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
So yeah, it's it's a dreams so far.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. It's
really remarkable to hear about. You know, what a beautiful
thing for your sister to do for you, and what
a way to bond the two of you. So thank
you so much for sharing your story. And I'm so
happy that you know you've got your two babies, and
you know, even after all of those hard years, you're
able to still have your family.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
Yeah, we're so lucky. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Kasenu lu Kitsch.
If you like our show, don't forget to subscribe and rate.
It goes a long way to allowing us to continue
sharing your stories. This episode was produced by Ella Maitland
and myself kasen You Luke, with audio production by Tina Mettalov.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
Mm hmm
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