July 1, 2025 • 27 mins
After having to go under general anaesthetics for the birth of her first baby, Jordan spent her second pregnancy working with anaesthetists to ensure she'd be awake for baby Dakota's arrival. But when two spinal blocks failed and doctors warned they'd never given a third dose to anyone, Jordan had seconds to decide whether to go under or fight through the pain.
In today's episode, Jordan shares how witnessing Dakota's arrival—despite the physical pain—became profoundly healing, and opens up about her hopes for a different experience with baby number three, who's on the way.
Diary Of A Birth features mums sharing their heartfelt stories of bringing life into the world. Share your birth story at podcast@mamamia.com.au or send a voice note here.
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CREDITS:
Host: Ksenija Lukich
Birth Story: Jordan Loughnane
Obstetrician & Gynaecologist:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects
to elders past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to
continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has
been a fundamental part of Indigenous culture.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Hi. I'm Cassanya Lukich and this is diary of a birth.
Some of the most challenging births can also be the
most healing ones. After having to go under general anesthetic
during her first birth, today's guest didn't get to experience
hearing her baby's first cry. Determined to be awake for
her second, Jordan worked closely with anesetus to find a solution,
(01:09):
but when the moment came, her body's resistant to medication
put her in an unthinkable position.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
We either need to get going and try and get
it done, or we need to put you to sleep.
So in that moment here I have the decision again
of am I being put to sleep or am I
going to try and be awake? Definitely my baby be born.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
When standard anesthesia failed again, she found herself in the
operating theater, facing a split second choice that would define
her birth experience. So let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Hi, my name is Jordan and this is my diary
of a birth with Dakota.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So, Jordan, can you tell us a little bit about
You've got two kids now, you've got a four and
a two year old. Can you tell us a little
bit about your birth with Matilda.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, so I had your stational diabetes. So they had
always spoken about induction. I had a failed induction, so
I didn't progress, and heart rate and everything like that
went pretty high, which turned into an emergency cesarean. They
tried to put in an epidural twice and it didn't
really work, so when we got up to theater, they
(02:20):
tried to then put in a spinal which was working.
And as soon as they started to do the procedure
and started to cut, I was like I can feel this.
I can feel this, Like please stop now, Like no, no,
you'll feel a little bit of tai. I was like no,
Like I can feel you cutting, I need to stop now.
So I actually was put to sleep for her birth,
so I wasn't awake at all while she was being born.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, obviously with that that is quite scary to feel
that pain when you fell pregnant with Dakota. Was that
kind of in the back of your mind.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yes, totally. From the beginning, I had made it known
with my hospital that this happened the first time, and
I don't want it to happen again, So they'd actually
organized appointments with an ethodist to talk through it, to
make sure that, like, if I was going to have
a cesarean, then I could be awake for it, because
that was my main thing, apart from it being scary
(03:16):
and not nice to feel. I wanted to meet my
baby like as soon as I born, and I didn't
get to do that the first time I was it
was an hour later during COVID. My partner didn't even
get to meet her until they're neither, so that was
huge for me.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, with your first with Matilda, because they had to
put you under general and aesthetic, you didn't get to
meet us straight away. No, so how long after were
you able to be with her?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah? So she was born at twenty three twenty three,
so eleven twenty three PM, and I got to meet her,
and all the photos of us meeting for the first
time were at twelve thirty five, So that's over an
hour later. So you know people talk about the golden hour. Well,
neither myself or my partner got to meet her within
that first hour.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, and you would have been kind of out of
it as well, because you're coming out of general aesthetic.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, and it was twelve thirty in the morning after
laboring all day, so, like I was exhausted. I could
barely keep my eyes open. I was so excited to
meet this little girl that you know, we didn't know
we're having a girl, so I was so excited to
meet her. But yeah, it was just a lot not
knowing that I would be put to sleep, then not
(04:27):
knowing that even my partner wouldn't be meeting her. Yeah, straightaway.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So you fell pregnant with Dakota, you kind of knew
that this was the case that anesthesia didn't quite work
on you the way that it normally does. You have
your meeting with the anethetist. How are you feeling throughout
the pregnancy while having this in the back of your mind.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Honestly, my first thought was let's try and have a
v back because I don't want to have to go
through this again. That was my initial thought, and I'd
sort of tried to prepare for that as much as
I could until I got to about, I want to say,
maybe thirty four weeks, and things sort of took a
little bit of a change. So that's when then I
knew I'm going to have to have a planned caesar. Okay,
(05:15):
this is like a bit stressful. Are these things going
to happen again? Yeah? It was very stressful for my
self and for my partner because it was obviously very
traumatic for him too.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
What was it about at thirty four weeks meaning you
couldn't have a vback? Why couldn't you have a vback?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, So initially we thought I was going into labor early,
so we'd sort of spoken about that. I was in
hospital for a week and then she was doing a
few reduced movements flipping breach not being breach, and it
was a bit like my hospital went super keen on
a breach feedback, as a lot wouldn't be. So then
(05:52):
when it got to my third well, thirty five ish weeks,
I started having more reduced movements and I went in
for a scan and they estimated that at thirty six
weeks she was measuring around over four kilos and she
turned breach. So they were like, if you were thinking
of doing a meedback, it's probably not going to happen. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I know with your first you had gestational diabetes. You
also had HG, which is the hyper emai scabbardarium. I
can never pronounce it properly.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, did you have that with your second
as well? No, So I had like I had some
nausea and morning sickness and vomiting with Dakota, but I
didn't have it anywhere to the extreme as I did
with Matilda. Like I could still eat, I could still
go to work, whereas with my first, I felt like
I spent a lot of time. It was lockdown, so
we obviously weren't doing a lot anyway, but I felt
(06:44):
like I spent a lot of the time not doing
anything because I was sick all the time. Where As
second time round, I still had gestational diabetes, but I
didn't have the severe morning sickness HG that I did
with my first.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So you get to thirty six weeks, you're kind of like, Okay,
we've got to put this Caesar in place. When did
they book that in for you?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
So just before thirty six weeks, So I was about
thirty five and six maybe, so it was like two
or three days before I went thirty six weeks. I
had a reduced movements where I didn't really feel her
move I went in, they did like some monitoring. It
came back okay, so they were like, let's just do
another lot tomorrow and then we've got this scan booked
in two days, so like that'll be perfect. So I
(07:27):
did the scan and the scan went from oh, she's
breached to this is urgent. You actually need to go
back to your doctor. I'm not recording movement, so like
in the scan they say, you know, like they should
tick off. Are they like practicing breathing? Are they moving?
And she wasn't doing any movements. She was just in
(07:51):
the one spot. So I went in to my doctor
straight after and they said to me, ideally we'd like
to get to thirty seven weeks, but if you come
in every single day and we do monitoring, you may
come in and she may come out. It's like pretty stressful.
(08:13):
So they had it looked in for a week later
at thirty seven weeks exactly. But it was literally like
our laugh is on pause because we didn't know if
we're going to have a baby that day.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So your partner, Hugh, you've got a toddler, a two
year old, and I know how difficult it is being
pregnant with a two year old. It is very hard.
And then your partner, Hugh, so during that last week,
how was he and you know, your family with that,
because obviously it's very heightened anxiety around that time.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, we're so lucky that we have really supportive families,
families that are very close to us, like my mum
and his mum, and everyone was very like, if we
need to help, we help. And at that point until
it wasn't in childcare, so like she was always with
me and me having to go into a hospital every day,
it means that somebody has to have her. So everyone
was very stressed knowing that she's probably going to come early,
(09:08):
but also like she couldn't be coming at any time,
and he was just trying to work so that then
when she did come, he could then take the time off.
He didn't want to take time off while we're waiting
that Okay, she might not be here until thirty seven weeks,
so let's try and you know, get in and he's
only five minutes from the hospital where he works, so
(09:29):
it's not as bad, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Will you stay at home mom at the time?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah, yeah, obviously that's.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Also very challenging. Your partner, Hugh works full time. He
doesn't want to take time off. Do you make it
to thirty seven weeks?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah? So I was really lucky. So the thirty seven
weeks was the Monday, so that's when we were booked
in and we were told to come in on that day.
On this Saturday, I went in and I had the
monitoring done and they were a bit like, I'm not
sure if you're going home today. I think she could
be coming, but because she was thirty six weeks, they
wanted to make sure that everybody was there, so they
kept monitoring me and I was there for probably five
(10:06):
or six hours, and then they went, okay, we're happy
with this monitoring. Let's like you've got two days to go.
Let's just try and get through to this thirty seven
week because we've got a team ready to go. So
I managed to make it to thirty seven week. So
I was booked in and I was the first off
the rank, so like they're at seven o'clock ready to go,
(10:27):
which was lovely.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Did you go through the public system private system? Where
are you based?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, so I'm near Ballarat, so I went publicly through
the hospital in Balerat.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So that's you know, regional basically.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so you're.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
In the regional system. You're in the public system. Did
you have consistent care throughout your pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
No, so I've seeing different doctors midwives the whole way through.
I was really lucky that I had an incredible student midwife, Indy,
who was with me the whole way through. That was
my only consistent and it was nice that I had
her to be able to be lack We talked about
this last time. This is what we wanted sort of
when I got to I don't really not to say
(11:10):
in appointments, but I didn't have any of the consistency
of seeing the same doctor. They sort of read my notes,
freak out a little bit, and then I'd have to
explain everything over again. So that was very difficult too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
How did that make you feel during that time? Was
it frustrating or Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
It was very like and I think too A lot
of the time they would sort of jump the gun
whenever I'd go in for monitoring because they'd read the
notes and then they'd freak a little bit and be like,
oh my goodness, we really need to sort this out.
And I'd be like, hold on a minute, like go back.
It's not as you know, like, yeah, okay, I want
my baby to be healthy, but like just come and
(11:48):
talk to me first, and don't just read what you're
reading on a piece of paper like I'm a person.
So I found that really really hard.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, so every time you went in, they kind of
freak out and go, okay, we need to get this
baby out now because of what was on the paper.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah, and just the fact that like i'd seen one
of the head doctors and she was the one that
was sure that we could make it to thirty seven weeks,
that if we did this monitoring, and also on my
own intuition, like if I felt something changed, then I
would come and you know, and that's what she said
to me. So I think we can make it to
thirty seven. But I would go in a doctor that
(12:25):
hadn't seen me before. We'd go, oh my gosh, this
is a lot we need to get this baby out
now sort of thing, without being like, actually, I'm not
as stressed today, Yeah, we need to monitor the baby,
but today I'm not as stressed because I felt a
kick or two in comparison to nothing coming up. I
think it was maybe two days later, and they were like,
(12:47):
we've kin't of never seen anything quite like it, because
by the time I got to recovery, I could feel
my legs like I could wiggle and that's not very long.
They were like, this is crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
You get to your thirty seven weeks, you go in
for your planned season. What does that look like when
you're going in.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Yeah, So obviously had a couple of appointments with the
anesthetics prior just to go through what had happened in
the first and that my main goal was to be awake.
That's all I wanted if I could. I also didn't
want to completely traumatize myself by feeling everything and just
(13:31):
pushing through because I thought that was the right thing
to do. So I went in. They did the spinal
as they normally would. You know, you're like a ye,
lean over, They put the needle in, they laid me down,
and they did the ars test where they go up
and try and work out where it was two and
they got to my hips, and then they got past
my hips. I was like, oh yeah, I can feel that,
(13:52):
and they were like you can feel it. I was
like yeah yeah, and I'm like okay. So they did
like where they tilted the bed so like my head
was down and my feet were up in the air,
and let that go for a little bit, and then
did the Yce test again and it maybe moved a
centimeter up and they were like, this is weird. The
(14:13):
actual spinal like that they put in the needle and
everything was perfect, like there was nothing wrong with that,
just that the anti saith wasn't coming up. So they
ended up calling in a second so I had two
anetheists in the room then at that point. So they
got me up and they redid it. So they gave
me a second lot of spinal. So I'd had one lot,
(14:35):
now I was having a second lot. And they said
to me, the only thing to be aware of is
because we're giving you so much, there's a chance that
it could go too high and then you might feel
like you can't breathe and then we will have to
knock you out. So here's me being like, I don't
want to feel anything, but I could get to a
point where I feel like I can't breathe. Oh my goodness.
They're like, so it's up to you, but we don't
(14:56):
think it's likely because of how it didn't go up
a huge way. And I was like, okay, well, I
guess let's try it then. So they did the second lot,
same thing, laid me down and did the ARS test
and it got to the bottom of my rib cage,
so like a lot higher. And they said, Okay, I
(15:21):
don't think we're going to get it up any higher
because we can't give you a third dose that like
we've never given anyone that much. We either need to
get going and try and get it done, or we
need to put you to sleep. So in that moment
here I have the decision again of am I being
put to sleep or am I going to try and
(15:41):
be awake? Definitely my baby be born.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
And I'm assuming your partner Hugh was in the room
at the time. Did you have a discussion about that.
Were you like, let's try or just put me under?
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Yeah? So my student midwife, Indy, and him, and I
also was really lucky one of the theater nurses that
actually a family friend, so she was really good at
being sort of like a motherly figure over the top
of me. And she was like, at the end of
the day, if you can't do it, you can't do it,
but why don't we try? And the needy to have
said to me, we can always try, and if you
(16:14):
get five minutes in and you got I can't do this,
we'll put you to sleep, like it's fine. And I
sort of was like, I think I would prefer that
I try then that I'd just be put to sleep now.
And I have that like what if I try it?
So we had that discussion and they were like, all right,
are we getting started or not. Like we sort of
(16:34):
had like a good fifteen seconds to really discuss, Like
it was not a very long time, but it was like, okay,
let's just go at it and let's just see and
fingers crossed it works.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
So they will you into the operating theater and they start, yep,
did you feel anything.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Well, So it actually turned out that Dakota's head was
jammed up in my ribs, which meant that because the
anesthetic was up to my rib cage and her head
was a little bit higher that when they started. So
like initially it was okay, I couldn't feel really anything,
a bit of tugging, as they sort of say. But
(17:15):
as they sort of started to try and get her,
I was like, oh my gosh, I can feel it.
I can feel it. Oh my gosh, stop stop, I
can feel this. And they were like, no, no, it's just
a bit of time. I was like, no, I can.
But because of where her head was and where the
anithetic stopped, I obviously could feel that's where she was
they were trying to get her from.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, so you could feel someone's hands inside you.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Right up at my roob cage, and I was like,
oh my gosh. They were like, do you want us
to put your sleep? And I was like I don't.
And in that moment, I didn't know what I wanted, Like,
I did not know. I knew that the baby was
so close to being born. I didn't know if I
wanted to be put to sleep or if I could
just try and get through it. It was insane.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I'm kind of in shock because you're effectively feeling someone's
hands inside you, yep, trying to pull your baby out.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Correct. So they literally said to me, we either knock
you out or we give you some like pretty strong
pain mets, and I was like, are the paid meds first?
Because I was like, I've made it this far, let's
just try and get like, I'm so close. I didn't
think I would make it to this point because I
didn't with my you know, with Matilda. I was they
(18:34):
started and I was asleep, so like, I'd got through
the first part, surely I can try and get through
the next bit. So they pumped me in with a
couple of drugs, which my partner says he thought that
I wasn't awake like in the room because I was
so out of it, but I was there. My eyes
were just closed and it was like I was resting,
(18:55):
but I needed some serious stuff to get through that part.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, so you get through
it just just first of all, like the women are amazing.
This is incredible that you could just resist that, like
deal with that kind of pain. So they eventually able
to get her out. I'm assuming it's fairly quick because
usually CE sections are fairly quick, but it probably didn't
feel quick for you.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, it felt like an eternity. But when I look back,
like I've got some really cool live pictures and it
was very fast. You know, I've got pictures of them
pulling her out of my rib cage, so between that
and her actually being out was very fast, but it
felt like forever in my lifetime.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
But you know, you said that it was healing because
you were able to.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Be away, Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
So they put Dakota straight onto your chest.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
No, so they lifted her up and obviously my partner
got to be like, it's another girl, And unfortunately when
she came out, she was a little bit purply blue.
She let out a cry, so that was amazing because
you know, obviously we didn't get to hear Matilda's first cry,
but she was a little bit not great, so they
(20:11):
took her straight to the rest of us attear and
she did eventually have to go straight to special cares.
So I didn't actually get to do that first hold,
which is what I wan wanted. But I think it's
still was healing because I got to see her be
in the world for the first time, whereas I didn't
with Matilda. I still missed out on that holding part,
(20:34):
but I seen her first moments which I didn't get
to with Matilda.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, do you feel sad that you didn't get to
have that or you felt like that was what you
needed to be able to see her come out.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah, I was definitely sad. I mean she was a
little bit unwell then, so like we didn't actually get
to hold her until she was around I want to say,
twenty eight hours old, so she was like over a
day old by the time we actually got to hold
you know, we could touch her. I was definitely sad
about not getting to hold her, But I think the
(21:08):
fact that I got to see her be born meant
that that part isn't as I don't want to say
the word traumatic, but it doesn't hold as much in
me that makes me super sat sad as what I
think it would have if I hadn't have had the
experience with Matilda.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, in terms of recovery, did the anetheist tell you
anything about what it is about your genetic makeup that
makes you so resistant to anesthetic?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
No, So, like they came in seeing us a couple
of I think it was maybe two days later, and
they will like, we've can't have never seen anything quite
like it. Because by the time I got to recovery,
I could feel my legs like I could wiggle, and
that's not very long. They were like, this is crazy,
and they just sort of said to us, like, we
(21:58):
might use your story without saying who you are, but
to sort of educate other anethodists because it's not something
that you know, they've ever done before. But they sort
of said to me, I think if you have another baby,
you'll need to be under general anaesthetic.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, yeah, so there's just something about your makeup that
makes you resistant.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Yeah, well they think like they always say that people
with red hair have a bit of resistance to anesthetic, which,
finally enough, my partner has red hair, and Matilda and
Dakota both have red hair, but I don't, so I
should be a redhead really, but yet they just don't
know why. I have since found out that I have
(22:39):
an auntie who had a ceserian who also had issues
with anesthetic. So whether it's something in my genetic makeup,
I'm not really sure.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Tell me a little bit about holding Dakota for the
first time after she was born and you're in recovery.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Yeah, it was amazing. So I want to say, she's
about twenty six hours old, so she'd just been pulled
out of their humanic crib isolate sort of thing and
had to see pat breathing thing on her and stuff
like that. So the fact that I was able to
then hold her, I think it was I won't want
to say as magical as with Matilda, but it was
(23:14):
really like amazing that, Okay, I got to see you
be born, whereas I didn't get to see Matilda. But
I still felt so much love even though I just
watched you in a box for so long, like I've
just been watching you from the outside. But this was
still so incredible and it felt almost healing, Like I
got a birth where I got to see my child
(23:36):
be born. I was awake, I pushed through it, whereas
I could have just in that moment given up and
missed out on her birth even though it was so close.
So I think that really like healed me. Even though
the birth was still pretty intense, it was quite healing,
I guess. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I think there's a lot of pressure to have that
golden hour, you know, the time on the chest, But
even if you don't have that, you can still have
a really beautiful experience with your newborn and feel that
connection straight away.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Yeah, And I think like credit to the midwife and
the doctors and everything in there, like they helped us
have the birth we wanted to, even though in that
moment they probably could have just turned out and said, no,
we need to put you to sleep, like we can't
do this, but they listened to us and that this
was what we wanted, and I'm very grateful that they
did listen.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
In the end, do you think you want to have
more children?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
I'm actually pregnant now, congratulations, thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
How far along are you?
Speaker 3 (24:40):
So? I'm twenty one weeks? Oh my god? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Okay, So what is the plan with number three? Do
you have plans?
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah? Well, so I went into it just assuming, as
you know you would, that I will need to have
a caesar under general. And I've since had an appointment
the uneathodist to say, let's try something different, and let's
do what they called the combined epidural spinal, so where
I would have both an epidural and a spinal at
the same time, where they can keep topping up the
(25:08):
epidural dury and see if that works with the goal
that I will be awake, but with also the understanding
that it is very fine for them to click their
fingers and put me asleep if it doesn't work, but
they were more than happy for us to try and
be awake and try and get a good birth. But
(25:29):
even a better birth than Dakota, and hopefully a birth
with you know, being able to hold my baby for
the first time would be ideal.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, you seem very positive about these experiences, even though
from the outside might sound quite traumatic. What do you
want to sort of give people from your story?
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Yeah, I think although talking to somebody it might sound
like someone's birth is traumatic, it doesn't necessarily mean that
somebody's birth is traumatic for them. And I think the
big thing for me is that I might not have
a perfect birth in comparison to some of my best
friends and some of my close friends, but it doesn't
mean that it's not a really good berth for me.
(26:12):
And I think that's one of the things that I've
found is talking to friends and family, I lack that Yes,
my story is a lot and it's not the norm,
but also I don't think of my berths as hugely traumatic.
So I think holding space for others to be able
to tell their story because it might not actually be
(26:34):
as traumatic as you might think it is just from
hearing it. I think that is a huge thing.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, you still had a beautiful experience even if it
wasn't a traditional one.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I still think it was healing and
it was beautiful to be able to see her be born,
even if it wasn't the picture perfect. Everything went to
plan birth that you know some people have.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I know you kept the first two as surprised. Do
you know what you're having this time around?
Speaker 3 (27:02):
No, but this pregnancy has been wildly different, so who.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Knows, well, Jordan, Thank you so much for sharing your story.
It's fascinating and I'm very happy for you, and I
hope that your third bubb comes out safe and sound.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yeah, thank you, but yeah, you're like a SuperH Thank
you so much for having me. It's been great to share,
and I'm so glad that I was able to share
a story that I guess you don't really hear very often.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Casenya Lukich.
If you like our show, don't forget to subscribe and
rate goes a long way to allowing us to continue
sharing your stories. This episode was produced by Ella Maitland
and myself Casenya Lukich, with audio production by Tina Matalov,
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects
to elders past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to
continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has
been a fundamental part of Indigenous culture.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Hi. I'm Cassanya Lukich and this is diary of a birth.
Some of the most challenging births can also be the
most healing ones. After having to go under general anesthetic
during her first birth, today's guest didn't get to experience
hearing her baby's first cry. Determined to be awake for
her second, Jordan worked closely with anesetus to find a solution,
(01:09):
but when the moment came, her body's resistant to medication
put her in an unthinkable position.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
We either need to get going and try and get
it done, or we need to put you to sleep.
So in that moment here I have the decision again
of am I being put to sleep or am I
going to try and be awake? Definitely my baby be born.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
When standard anesthesia failed again, she found herself in the
operating theater, facing a split second choice that would define
her birth experience. So let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Hi, my name is Jordan and this is my diary
of a birth with Dakota.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So, Jordan, can you tell us a little bit about
You've got two kids now, you've got a four and
a two year old. Can you tell us a little
bit about your birth with Matilda.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, so I had your stational diabetes. So they had
always spoken about induction. I had a failed induction, so
I didn't progress, and heart rate and everything like that
went pretty high, which turned into an emergency cesarean. They
tried to put in an epidural twice and it didn't
really work, so when we got up to theater, they
(02:20):
tried to then put in a spinal which was working.
And as soon as they started to do the procedure
and started to cut, I was like I can feel this.
I can feel this, Like please stop now, Like no, no,
you'll feel a little bit of tai. I was like no,
Like I can feel you cutting, I need to stop now.
So I actually was put to sleep for her birth,
so I wasn't awake at all while she was being born.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, obviously with that that is quite scary to feel
that pain when you fell pregnant with Dakota. Was that
kind of in the back of your mind.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yes, totally. From the beginning, I had made it known
with my hospital that this happened the first time, and
I don't want it to happen again, So they'd actually
organized appointments with an ethodist to talk through it, to
make sure that, like, if I was going to have
a cesarean, then I could be awake for it, because
that was my main thing, apart from it being scary
(03:16):
and not nice to feel. I wanted to meet my
baby like as soon as I born, and I didn't
get to do that the first time I was it
was an hour later during COVID. My partner didn't even
get to meet her until they're neither, so that was
huge for me.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, with your first with Matilda, because they had to
put you under general and aesthetic, you didn't get to
meet us straight away. No, so how long after were
you able to be with her?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah? So she was born at twenty three twenty three,
so eleven twenty three PM, and I got to meet her,
and all the photos of us meeting for the first
time were at twelve thirty five, So that's over an
hour later. So you know people talk about the golden hour. Well,
neither myself or my partner got to meet her within
that first hour.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Yeah, and you would have been kind of out of
it as well, because you're coming out of general aesthetic.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Yeah, and it was twelve thirty in the morning after
laboring all day, so, like I was exhausted. I could
barely keep my eyes open. I was so excited to
meet this little girl that you know, we didn't know
we're having a girl, so I was so excited to
meet her. But yeah, it was just a lot not
knowing that I would be put to sleep, then not
(04:27):
knowing that even my partner wouldn't be meeting her. Yeah, straightaway.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So you fell pregnant with Dakota, you kind of knew
that this was the case that anesthesia didn't quite work
on you the way that it normally does. You have
your meeting with the anethetist. How are you feeling throughout
the pregnancy while having this in the back of your mind.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Honestly, my first thought was let's try and have a
v back because I don't want to have to go
through this again. That was my initial thought, and I'd
sort of tried to prepare for that as much as
I could until I got to about, I want to say,
maybe thirty four weeks, and things sort of took a
little bit of a change. So that's when then I
knew I'm going to have to have a planned caesar. Okay,
(05:15):
this is like a bit stressful. Are these things going
to happen again? Yeah? It was very stressful for my
self and for my partner because it was obviously very
traumatic for him too.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
What was it about at thirty four weeks meaning you
couldn't have a vback? Why couldn't you have a vback?
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, So initially we thought I was going into labor early,
so we'd sort of spoken about that. I was in
hospital for a week and then she was doing a
few reduced movements flipping breach not being breach, and it
was a bit like my hospital went super keen on
a breach feedback, as a lot wouldn't be. So then
(05:52):
when it got to my third well, thirty five ish weeks,
I started having more reduced movements and I went in
for a scan and they estimated that at thirty six
weeks she was measuring around over four kilos and she
turned breach. So they were like, if you were thinking
of doing a meedback, it's probably not going to happen. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
I know with your first you had gestational diabetes. You
also had HG, which is the hyper emai scabbardarium. I
can never pronounce it properly.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, did you have that with your second
as well? No, So I had like I had some
nausea and morning sickness and vomiting with Dakota, but I
didn't have it anywhere to the extreme as I did
with Matilda. Like I could still eat, I could still
go to work, whereas with my first, I felt like
I spent a lot of time. It was lockdown, so
we obviously weren't doing a lot anyway, but I felt
(06:44):
like I spent a lot of the time not doing
anything because I was sick all the time. Where As
second time round, I still had gestational diabetes, but I
didn't have the severe morning sickness HG that I did
with my first.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So you get to thirty six weeks, you're kind of like, Okay,
we've got to put this Caesar in place. When did
they book that in for you?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
So just before thirty six weeks, So I was about
thirty five and six maybe, so it was like two
or three days before I went thirty six weeks. I
had a reduced movements where I didn't really feel her
move I went in, they did like some monitoring. It
came back okay, so they were like, let's just do
another lot tomorrow and then we've got this scan booked
in two days, so like that'll be perfect. So I
(07:27):
did the scan and the scan went from oh, she's
breached to this is urgent. You actually need to go
back to your doctor. I'm not recording movement, so like
in the scan they say, you know, like they should
tick off. Are they like practicing breathing? Are they moving?
And she wasn't doing any movements. She was just in
(07:51):
the one spot. So I went in to my doctor
straight after and they said to me, ideally we'd like
to get to thirty seven weeks, but if you come
in every single day and we do monitoring, you may
come in and she may come out. It's like pretty stressful.
(08:13):
So they had it looked in for a week later
at thirty seven weeks exactly. But it was literally like
our laugh is on pause because we didn't know if
we're going to have a baby that day.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So your partner, Hugh, you've got a toddler, a two
year old, and I know how difficult it is being
pregnant with a two year old. It is very hard.
And then your partner, Hugh, so during that last week,
how was he and you know, your family with that,
because obviously it's very heightened anxiety around that time.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, we're so lucky that we have really supportive families,
families that are very close to us, like my mum
and his mum, and everyone was very like, if we
need to help, we help. And at that point until
it wasn't in childcare, so like she was always with
me and me having to go into a hospital every day,
it means that somebody has to have her. So everyone
was very stressed knowing that she's probably going to come early,
(09:08):
but also like she couldn't be coming at any time,
and he was just trying to work so that then
when she did come, he could then take the time off.
He didn't want to take time off while we're waiting
that Okay, she might not be here until thirty seven weeks,
so let's try and you know, get in and he's
only five minutes from the hospital where he works, so
(09:29):
it's not as bad, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Will you stay at home mom at the time?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah, yeah, obviously that's.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Also very challenging. Your partner, Hugh works full time. He
doesn't want to take time off. Do you make it
to thirty seven weeks?
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Yeah? So I was really lucky. So the thirty seven
weeks was the Monday, so that's when we were booked
in and we were told to come in on that day.
On this Saturday, I went in and I had the
monitoring done and they were a bit like, I'm not
sure if you're going home today. I think she could
be coming, but because she was thirty six weeks, they
wanted to make sure that everybody was there, so they
kept monitoring me and I was there for probably five
(10:06):
or six hours, and then they went, okay, we're happy
with this monitoring. Let's like you've got two days to go.
Let's just try and get through to this thirty seven
week because we've got a team ready to go. So
I managed to make it to thirty seven week. So
I was booked in and I was the first off
the rank, so like they're at seven o'clock ready to go,
(10:27):
which was lovely.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Did you go through the public system private system? Where
are you based?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, so I'm near Ballarat, so I went publicly through
the hospital in Balerat.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So that's you know, regional basically.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so you're.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
In the regional system. You're in the public system. Did
you have consistent care throughout your pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
No, so I've seeing different doctors midwives the whole way through.
I was really lucky that I had an incredible student midwife, Indy,
who was with me the whole way through. That was
my only consistent and it was nice that I had
her to be able to be lack We talked about
this last time. This is what we wanted sort of
when I got to I don't really not to say
(11:10):
in appointments, but I didn't have any of the consistency
of seeing the same doctor. They sort of read my notes,
freak out a little bit, and then I'd have to
explain everything over again. So that was very difficult too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
How did that make you feel during that time? Was
it frustrating or Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
It was very like and I think too A lot
of the time they would sort of jump the gun
whenever I'd go in for monitoring because they'd read the
notes and then they'd freak a little bit and be like,
oh my goodness, we really need to sort this out.
And I'd be like, hold on a minute, like go back.
It's not as you know, like, yeah, okay, I want
my baby to be healthy, but like just come and
(11:48):
talk to me first, and don't just read what you're
reading on a piece of paper like I'm a person.
So I found that really really hard.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, so every time you went in, they kind of
freak out and go, okay, we need to get this
baby out now because of what was on the paper.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah, and just the fact that like i'd seen one
of the head doctors and she was the one that
was sure that we could make it to thirty seven weeks,
that if we did this monitoring, and also on my
own intuition, like if I felt something changed, then I
would come and you know, and that's what she said
to me. So I think we can make it to
thirty seven. But I would go in a doctor that
(12:25):
hadn't seen me before. We'd go, oh my gosh, this
is a lot we need to get this baby out
now sort of thing, without being like, actually, I'm not
as stressed today, Yeah, we need to monitor the baby,
but today I'm not as stressed because I felt a
kick or two in comparison to nothing coming up. I
think it was maybe two days later, and they were like,
(12:47):
we've kin't of never seen anything quite like it, because
by the time I got to recovery, I could feel
my legs like I could wiggle and that's not very long.
They were like, this is crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
You get to your thirty seven weeks, you go in
for your planned season. What does that look like when
you're going in.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Yeah, So obviously had a couple of appointments with the
anesthetics prior just to go through what had happened in
the first and that my main goal was to be awake.
That's all I wanted if I could. I also didn't
want to completely traumatize myself by feeling everything and just
(13:31):
pushing through because I thought that was the right thing
to do. So I went in. They did the spinal
as they normally would. You know, you're like a ye,
lean over, They put the needle in, they laid me down,
and they did the ars test where they go up
and try and work out where it was two and
they got to my hips, and then they got past
my hips. I was like, oh yeah, I can feel that,
(13:52):
and they were like you can feel it. I was
like yeah yeah, and I'm like okay. So they did
like where they tilted the bed so like my head
was down and my feet were up in the air,
and let that go for a little bit, and then
did the Yce test again and it maybe moved a
centimeter up and they were like, this is weird. The
(14:13):
actual spinal like that they put in the needle and
everything was perfect, like there was nothing wrong with that,
just that the anti saith wasn't coming up. So they
ended up calling in a second so I had two
anetheists in the room then at that point. So they
got me up and they redid it. So they gave
me a second lot of spinal. So I'd had one lot,
(14:35):
now I was having a second lot. And they said
to me, the only thing to be aware of is
because we're giving you so much, there's a chance that
it could go too high and then you might feel
like you can't breathe and then we will have to
knock you out. So here's me being like, I don't
want to feel anything, but I could get to a
point where I feel like I can't breathe. Oh my goodness.
They're like, so it's up to you, but we don't
(14:56):
think it's likely because of how it didn't go up
a huge way. And I was like, okay, well, I
guess let's try it then. So they did the second lot,
same thing, laid me down and did the ARS test
and it got to the bottom of my rib cage,
so like a lot higher. And they said, Okay, I
(15:21):
don't think we're going to get it up any higher
because we can't give you a third dose that like
we've never given anyone that much. We either need to
get going and try and get it done, or we
need to put you to sleep. So in that moment
here I have the decision again of am I being
put to sleep or am I going to try and
(15:41):
be awake? Definitely my baby be born.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
And I'm assuming your partner Hugh was in the room
at the time. Did you have a discussion about that.
Were you like, let's try or just put me under?
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Yeah? So my student midwife, Indy, and him, and I
also was really lucky one of the theater nurses that
actually a family friend, so she was really good at
being sort of like a motherly figure over the top
of me. And she was like, at the end of
the day, if you can't do it, you can't do it,
but why don't we try? And the needy to have
said to me, we can always try, and if you
(16:14):
get five minutes in and you got I can't do this,
we'll put you to sleep, like it's fine. And I
sort of was like, I think I would prefer that
I try then that I'd just be put to sleep now.
And I have that like what if I try it?
So we had that discussion and they were like, all right,
are we getting started or not. Like we sort of
(16:34):
had like a good fifteen seconds to really discuss, Like
it was not a very long time, but it was like, okay,
let's just go at it and let's just see and
fingers crossed it works.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
So they will you into the operating theater and they start, yep,
did you feel anything.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Well, So it actually turned out that Dakota's head was
jammed up in my ribs, which meant that because the
anesthetic was up to my rib cage and her head
was a little bit higher that when they started. So
like initially it was okay, I couldn't feel really anything,
a bit of tugging, as they sort of say. But
(17:15):
as they sort of started to try and get her,
I was like, oh my gosh, I can feel it.
I can feel it. Oh my gosh, stop stop, I
can feel this. And they were like, no, no, it's just
a bit of time. I was like, no, I can.
But because of where her head was and where the
anithetic stopped, I obviously could feel that's where she was
they were trying to get her from.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, so you could feel someone's hands inside you.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Right up at my roob cage, and I was like,
oh my gosh. They were like, do you want us
to put your sleep? And I was like I don't.
And in that moment, I didn't know what I wanted, Like,
I did not know. I knew that the baby was
so close to being born. I didn't know if I
wanted to be put to sleep or if I could
just try and get through it. It was insane.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I'm kind of in shock because you're effectively feeling someone's
hands inside you, yep, trying to pull your baby out.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Correct. So they literally said to me, we either knock
you out or we give you some like pretty strong
pain mets, and I was like, are the paid meds first?
Because I was like, I've made it this far, let's
just try and get like, I'm so close. I didn't
think I would make it to this point because I
didn't with my you know, with Matilda. I was they
(18:34):
started and I was asleep, so like, I'd got through
the first part, surely I can try and get through
the next bit. So they pumped me in with a
couple of drugs, which my partner says he thought that
I wasn't awake like in the room because I was
so out of it, but I was there. My eyes
were just closed and it was like I was resting,
(18:55):
but I needed some serious stuff to get through that part.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, so you get through
it just just first of all, like the women are amazing.
This is incredible that you could just resist that, like
deal with that kind of pain. So they eventually able
to get her out. I'm assuming it's fairly quick because
usually CE sections are fairly quick, but it probably didn't
feel quick for you.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yeah, it felt like an eternity. But when I look back,
like I've got some really cool live pictures and it
was very fast. You know, I've got pictures of them
pulling her out of my rib cage, so between that
and her actually being out was very fast, but it
felt like forever in my lifetime.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
But you know, you said that it was healing because
you were able to.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Be away, Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
So they put Dakota straight onto your chest.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
No, so they lifted her up and obviously my partner
got to be like, it's another girl, And unfortunately when
she came out, she was a little bit purply blue.
She let out a cry, so that was amazing because
you know, obviously we didn't get to hear Matilda's first cry,
but she was a little bit not great, so they
(20:11):
took her straight to the rest of us attear and
she did eventually have to go straight to special cares.
So I didn't actually get to do that first hold,
which is what I wan wanted. But I think it's
still was healing because I got to see her be
in the world for the first time, whereas I didn't
with Matilda. I still missed out on that holding part,
(20:34):
but I seen her first moments which I didn't get
to with Matilda.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, do you feel sad that you didn't get to
have that or you felt like that was what you
needed to be able to see her come out.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah, I was definitely sad. I mean she was a
little bit unwell then, so like we didn't actually get
to hold her until she was around I want to say,
twenty eight hours old, so she was like over a
day old by the time we actually got to hold
you know, we could touch her. I was definitely sad
about not getting to hold her, But I think the
(21:08):
fact that I got to see her be born meant
that that part isn't as I don't want to say
the word traumatic, but it doesn't hold as much in
me that makes me super sat sad as what I
think it would have if I hadn't have had the
experience with Matilda.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, in terms of recovery, did the anetheist tell you
anything about what it is about your genetic makeup that
makes you so resistant to anesthetic?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
No, So, like they came in seeing us a couple
of I think it was maybe two days later, and
they will like, we've can't have never seen anything quite
like it. Because by the time I got to recovery,
I could feel my legs like I could wiggle, and
that's not very long. They were like, this is crazy,
and they just sort of said to us, like, we
(21:58):
might use your story without saying who you are, but
to sort of educate other anethodists because it's not something
that you know, they've ever done before. But they sort
of said to me, I think if you have another baby,
you'll need to be under general anaesthetic.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah, yeah, so there's just something about your makeup that
makes you resistant.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Yeah, well they think like they always say that people
with red hair have a bit of resistance to anesthetic, which,
finally enough, my partner has red hair, and Matilda and
Dakota both have red hair, but I don't, so I
should be a redhead really, but yet they just don't
know why. I have since found out that I have
(22:39):
an auntie who had a ceserian who also had issues
with anesthetic. So whether it's something in my genetic makeup,
I'm not really sure.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Tell me a little bit about holding Dakota for the
first time after she was born and you're in recovery.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Yeah, it was amazing. So I want to say, she's
about twenty six hours old, so she'd just been pulled
out of their humanic crib isolate sort of thing and
had to see pat breathing thing on her and stuff
like that. So the fact that I was able to
then hold her, I think it was I won't want
to say as magical as with Matilda, but it was
(23:14):
really like amazing that, Okay, I got to see you
be born, whereas I didn't get to see Matilda. But
I still felt so much love even though I just
watched you in a box for so long, like I've
just been watching you from the outside. But this was
still so incredible and it felt almost healing, Like I
got a birth where I got to see my child
(23:36):
be born. I was awake, I pushed through it, whereas
I could have just in that moment given up and
missed out on her birth even though it was so close.
So I think that really like healed me. Even though
the birth was still pretty intense, it was quite healing,
I guess. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I think there's a lot of pressure to have that
golden hour, you know, the time on the chest, But
even if you don't have that, you can still have
a really beautiful experience with your newborn and feel that
connection straight away.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Yeah, And I think like credit to the midwife and
the doctors and everything in there, like they helped us
have the birth we wanted to, even though in that
moment they probably could have just turned out and said, no,
we need to put you to sleep, like we can't
do this, but they listened to us and that this
was what we wanted, and I'm very grateful that they
did listen.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
In the end, do you think you want to have
more children?
Speaker 3 (24:33):
I'm actually pregnant now, congratulations, thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
How far along are you?
Speaker 3 (24:40):
So? I'm twenty one weeks? Oh my god? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Okay, So what is the plan with number three? Do
you have plans?
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah? Well, so I went into it just assuming, as
you know you would, that I will need to have
a caesar under general. And I've since had an appointment
the uneathodist to say, let's try something different, and let's
do what they called the combined epidural spinal, so where
I would have both an epidural and a spinal at
the same time, where they can keep topping up the
(25:08):
epidural dury and see if that works with the goal
that I will be awake, but with also the understanding
that it is very fine for them to click their
fingers and put me asleep if it doesn't work, but
they were more than happy for us to try and
be awake and try and get a good birth. But
(25:29):
even a better birth than Dakota, and hopefully a birth
with you know, being able to hold my baby for
the first time would be ideal.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, you seem very positive about these experiences, even though
from the outside might sound quite traumatic. What do you
want to sort of give people from your story?
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Yeah, I think although talking to somebody it might sound
like someone's birth is traumatic, it doesn't necessarily mean that
somebody's birth is traumatic for them. And I think the
big thing for me is that I might not have
a perfect birth in comparison to some of my best
friends and some of my close friends, but it doesn't
mean that it's not a really good berth for me.
(26:12):
And I think that's one of the things that I've
found is talking to friends and family, I lack that Yes,
my story is a lot and it's not the norm,
but also I don't think of my berths as hugely traumatic.
So I think holding space for others to be able
to tell their story because it might not actually be
(26:34):
as traumatic as you might think it is just from
hearing it. I think that is a huge thing.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, you still had a beautiful experience even if it
wasn't a traditional one.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I still think it was healing and
it was beautiful to be able to see her be born,
even if it wasn't the picture perfect. Everything went to
plan birth that you know some people have.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I know you kept the first two as surprised. Do
you know what you're having this time around?
Speaker 3 (27:02):
No, but this pregnancy has been wildly different, so who.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Knows, well, Jordan, Thank you so much for sharing your story.
It's fascinating and I'm very happy for you, and I
hope that your third bubb comes out safe and sound.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Yeah, thank you, but yeah, you're like a SuperH Thank
you so much for having me. It's been great to share,
and I'm so glad that I was able to share
a story that I guess you don't really hear very often.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Casenya Lukich.
If you like our show, don't forget to subscribe and
rate goes a long way to allowing us to continue
sharing your stories. This episode was produced by Ella Maitland
and myself Casenya Lukich, with audio production by Tina Matalov,
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