May 20, 2025 • 34 mins
Imagine discovering you're pregnant just two days after receiving a rare blood cancer diagnosis at 30. For journalist Elle Halliwell, this unimaginable scenario became reality when her routine health check revealed chronic myeloid leukemia—an incurable but treatable condition that would change everything.
Despite doctors advising she terminate the pregnancy to begin life-saving treatment, Elle made the extraordinary decision to continue, feeling it was "meant to be." She takes us through the peace she found amid chaos, and her induced birth at 36 weeks that brought her perfect son Tor into the world. From the emotional rollercoaster of breastfeeding while preparing for cancer treatment, to rebuilding her life as a mother with an ongoing medical condition, Elle's story is a powerful testament to maternal determination that defied medical odds.
Diary Of A Birth features mums telling their miraculous stories of bringing life into the world. If you’d like to share your birth story, we’d love to hear from you at podcast@mamamia.com.au or send us a voice note here.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects
to elders past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to
continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has
been a fundamental part of indigenous culture.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Hi, I'm Cassinia Lukish and this is diary of a birth.
We've all been thrown curveballs in life, but a cancer
diagnosis two days before finding out you're pregnant has to
be one of the toughest blows possible. Today's mum navigated
this unimaginable situation with an immense amount of strength and
(01:08):
got through it all with a beautiful, healthy baby.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
It was just such a brutal thing to happen, something
you've been looking forward to, only to find out after
you've just been basically told that you might not have
long to live.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
After being diagnosed with chronic myloid leukemia and incurable blood cancer,
she was advised by her doctors to terminate her pregnancy,
but ultimately decided that this was meant to be. So
let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Hi, I'm elle and this is the diary of my
birth with tal.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So Elle. You've told your story a number of times
and it is a really difficult time for you, your
journalist in the public eye. You know, I remember when
this happened, as we were colleagues and I saw you
a number of times. But can you tell me a
little bit about what happened, you know, the two days
(02:07):
before you found out that you were pregnant.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yes, So two days before I found out I was
pregnant with my first child, I was diagnosed with a
rare form of blood cancer, which was an absolute shock,
to say the least, and something that you don't expect
to hear when you're thirty years old.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, and were there any symptoms for you? Like, what
was your reason for going to the doctor.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So ironically, I went to my doctor initially to get
my folate and vitamin D checked because me and my husband,
we've been together for about ten years, married for I
think three, and we kind of thought, okay, my thirtieth
out of the way, let's maybe consider starting a family.
But we were kind of not in a rush, and
(02:56):
so I just wanted to make sure that I kind
of had all my health, you know, looking good before
we did anything, and so it kind of corresponded with
a bit of gastro that I had. So I went
to the doctor. I was like, while I'm here, I
want to get all my blood's taken just to see
how I'm going. And then he got back to me
and he said, folate's okay, so gi vitamin D. But
(03:19):
you've also got something happening with your platelet levels. That
didn't mean anything to me at the time, so I said, okay,
well what does that mean. He said, come back in
a couple of weeks. It might just be a reaction
to the bug you had. And so two weeks later
I went back, got the tests again and the platelets
were actually worse than they were before, so they were higher,
(03:41):
and he said, probably best we go and ReFood to
a specialist just to rule out anything bad. And so
I said, okay, sure, but you know we specialists it
takes forever. So I think it was about nine weeks
or something crazy before I could actually go and see them.
So in that time I kind of just forgot about
it was doing, you know, working too much, as we
(04:05):
all do. I was feeling a bit tired, but not
ridiculously so not concerningly, so if that makes sense. And
so when it came for my appointment, I went and
I got all these blood tests, and the lady at
the hematology department said, look, we'll probably get in touch
(04:28):
with in about three weeks to organize the specialist appointment,
so see you later. So I get home the next day,
which was a Thursday, I get a phone call at
nine am on the dot and it was from the
hematology department at RPA to tell me that no, they
weren't calling me in three weeks. I had to come
(04:50):
and see them on Monday, which was four days from then,
and bring a loved one with me. And I mean,
when you're told to bring someone with you to a
doctor's appointment, you know that it's not going to be
good news. So that was incredibly difficult because I thought,
(05:10):
I'm not going to wait four days to find out
if I'm dying, you know, and the worst things go
through your head. And so my GP managed to kind
of find out what was going on and came over
that night and broke the news to me and my
husband that I was diagnosed with with leukemia, and my
wealth fell apart at that moment.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, it would have hit like a ton of recks.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
It's hard to kind of explain. It's hard to describe.
I guess it's what you feel like, you know, that
moment that you're about to die. Yeah, everything on it
comes full circle and like you're looking down a dark
tunnel and you can't see or hear anything else except
kind of this light in front of you, just like
(05:55):
a deer in headlights.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I guess. Yeah, so you find out and then how
did you find out that you were pregnant?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So you know, you're sitting at home, I'm just like
in this kind of still in shock, I guess. And
I thought to myself, Oh my god, what would be
the worst situation ever if I was pregnant. So I'd
actually taken a pregnancy test about two weeks before because
(06:26):
I was out with some friends and I wanted to
have a drink and I wasn't sure if I was
or not, Like we just weren't being very careful, if
that makes sense. And so I did it and it
was negative, so that was great. But then I bought
a two pac so I thought he's probably gonna ask
on the Monday when I go in for the you know,
proper specialist appointment. So I decided to just did the
(06:51):
second test and was not expecting it, but it was positive.
I was like, really, like, is this actually happening to me?
Like you think to the universe, like are you serious? Okay,
give me something to tackle, but don't complicate it like this.
You know, it was just such a brutal thing to happen,
(07:15):
something you've been looking forward to, only to find out
after you've just been basically that you might not have
long to live. You know, at that point of like,
I don't know what this means to me. We hadn't
even met the specialist. All I knew was I had
blood cancer. And when you think about blood cancer, that
sounds pretty bad, right.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Oh, leukemia as well. I mean the word leukemia thrown
around is something that that's also you know, that's really serious.
So this weekend, before your specialist appointment, you and Nick
found out that you're pregnant and you have leukemia. What
are you doing on that weekend?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I was I was high on drugs, to be honest,
I'd asked my GP to give me some pretty hardcore
muscle relaxance. I'd probably popped way too many than I
should have. So I was in a bit of a
kind of comatose state, just kind of like watching TV
but not watching it, and just imagining me lying in
(08:15):
a hospital bed close to death. You know, you start thinking,
my god, oh my, who am I going to give
my wardrobe too? I haven't even tonde my will yet,
you know, all of those things start going through your mind.
And my husband's on the computer in the background, like
trying to research or trying to figure out what we're
going to do, and I'm just sitting there just going fuck.
And then I just didn't think that there was going
(08:38):
to be any way out of this, Like this is
just going to end badly.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
So when we got to the appointment on the Monday,
it was quite bizarre having to tell him the news
when we already knew what he was going to tell us.
And basically he was like, well, this is a really
rare cancer for someone of your age and gender, because
normally men who are like sixty plus get this disease,
(09:05):
and with blood cancers, it's quite interesting that there really
aren't any direct lifestyle factors associated with the onset of
blood cancer. So I was kind of what have I done?
You know, what could I have done to not have this,
and he's like, look, it's just it's just bad luck.
But it's really weird for you to have it. And
(09:28):
I've never treated anyone who's been in this situation, so
best thing to do. You're my patient. So my advice is,
you know, terminate the pregnancy, go on fertility treatment, and
then we'll put you on these new drugs that are
going to save your life pretty much. And I was like, wow, Okay,
that seems a really like messed up thing to do.
(09:51):
Terminate a child only so that you can go on fertility.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Drugs seems karen intuitive. Yeah, So when they told you
about the cancer, what was the prognosis for the cancer?
Was the cancer treatable? Was it incurable? Was it like?
What was the prognosis?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So he basically said, it's incurable. However, it's treatable. So
I had a chromosome, two chromosomes twenty six and nine,
which broke apart randomly and switched and attached to each other.
So he said, with this chromosome, we can't reattach them
(10:30):
in the right spots. However, new drugs come on the market.
It's kind of been around only for a few years
before that, chronic leukemia was pretty much a death sentence
three to five year survival rate on average. But these
new drugs change the game. And now if you take
the drugs and they work for you and you can
(10:53):
tolerate them, then you might live a long and healthy life.
That's the plan, that's the hope. If there's a mutation
that can change things, it looks good, but we have
to get onto it really quickly because if it's untreated,
it mutates into an acute form of leukemia, which can
be fatal obviously, So that's why it's really important that
(11:17):
we get these drugs into you pretty quickly. And you
can't be pregnant while you're on them, okay. So I
was like wow, okay, And I didn't know how kind
of progressed the cancer was, so I was all so
many unknowns.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Right How far along were you? Do? You know?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Very early? I was only about four weeks and okay,
And in my mind I was like, well, it seems
so weird that like I've managed to kind of create
a life when my body is not so good, right, Yeah,
And I thought, well, there is a pretty high chance
that it's just going to kind of self terminate it
(11:53):
right if the body's like, well, this is not the
right time to have a baby. So part of me
was like, well, maybe we just wait see if we
get to the twelve weeks. And if we do, then
I'm like, well, is that not kind of a sign
that this kid's a pretty strong kid? And maybe I
give it the benefit of the doubt. And then so
(12:15):
with that kind of thinking in my mind, and then
my husband going, I found this world globally recognized expert
in this particular cancer. Let's go and visit him down
in South Australia. First time I've ever been to Adelaide.
It's lovely, which I'd been more under better circumstances, but
(12:36):
the facility there, the research facility that I went down to,
was just incredible. And doctor Hughes, who is the professor,
he was just amazing us. It. Look, your professor is right,
your hematologist that this is not very common and there
(12:57):
are a lot of risks. But maybe if you do
watch and wait, we can put you on this other
drug which was back in the day, the only kind
of line of defense that they had to treat this cancer,
and it might just give you that extra time before
you can give birth to keep the cancer kind of obey.
(13:19):
So basically it was I had to inject it once
a week.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
And that was safe to take during pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yes, it didn't cross the blood brain barrier.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Into the placenta, yeah, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And it was called interferon and it was what they
used before this other drug called a tki tyras in
Canadian hibita was introduced. So it's like, it's pretty not fun,
Like it's not the funnest struggle to take. Some people
find it really hard, others don't find it too hard.
But it's the best chance we've got. So I was like,
(13:54):
all right, well let's just see how we go. So
that first kind of a few weeks was a waiting game.
But interestingly this happened. This was all going on pretty
much this time nine years ago, so it was the
first week of May that everything kind of happened. So
it was around Mother's Day and that was around the
time that I told my parents and in laws, and
(14:16):
it was just horrible. You know, you want to go,
guess we're pregnant, and for everyone to go yay, but
it was like, guess what, we're pregnant, and people, you know,
my family was like oh my god, Oh my god.
And it was just like seeing a mirror of the
horrible situation that you were facing every time we had
(14:38):
to break the news to them, And for me, it
was just so horrible, kind of feeling like this is
not the way that we wanted to celebrate the announcement
of our child. So it was, Yeah, that was pretty
hard to deal with.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Coming up.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
And then all of a sudden outcomes this baby, three
point one kilos perfect, you know, ten fingers, ten toes.
I just couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
So you start taking the interfere on, your pregnancy starts progressing.
How is your not just your physical health, but I imagine
your mental health would have really struggled during this time.
Did you stop working for a while, did you what
was your kind of battle plan for your mind?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
It's so bizarre. So I've had anxiety since my early twenties,
and I think it's that whole adage that when you're healthy,
you have a thousand problems, when you're sick, you have one.
And that really puts into perspective exactly how I was feeling.
Because I was such an anxious person before all this happened,
(15:52):
and then I kind of it gave me this opportunity
to pause and go, why the fuck was I so
stressed about deadlines and all of these things that really
don't matter in the scheme of things. And so I just,
for the first time in so long, I was mindful
and I was present, and I was like, Wow, I
(16:13):
might have a long life, but I might also have
a short life to live. I better start enjoying it
and be present and appreciating the time I have. And
the anxiety just fell away. And I'd actually never been
in a weird, messed up way more full of joy
in my life because I was given this chance to
(16:36):
clear my mind of all of the bullshit that was
going on in my life that I used to worry
about and literally just stop and spend time with my
own mind and just get outside and walk in nature
and connect with this little thing that was growing inside me.
I'd never felt such peace in my life. It was
(17:00):
so bizarre. And I look back and I go, Wow,
I wish I could get back to that place. Hasn't happened.
I'd get close.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Sometimes you've had a mind shift, for sure. So you're
on these drugs, they're obviously monitoring you very closely, and
bub is growing well and healthy and tours good to
find out the sex.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, so that was really nice because on my birthday,
this was August, I think I was in my halfway
through my second trimester by then, and I was feeling confident.
I was kind of at that point where I was like,
we could be okay here, you know, and I'd started
to feel all of the pregnancy things. And funnily enough,
(17:42):
despite all of the drama at the beginning, actual pregnancy
was fairly non eventful in terms of like he was
growing at a pretty good rate. Head size was extremely
large for his percentile, which was concerning. But on my birthday,
we decided that we were going to do a gender reveal,
(18:02):
so we gave the gender to the cake person, so
we didn't know when we got all of my family together,
and being able to celebrate that kind of made up
for the kind of initial discovery that we were pregnant,
which was so filled with sadness and you know, trepidation.
So it was just such a great feeling to be
(18:24):
able to be there with our families and really celebrate,
you know, this this baby who was so far looking
like he was going to come into the world, so
it was a boy. And then after that it was
kind of just a bit of a waiting game, and
I was getting tested, i think every second week to
(18:45):
see how my levels were going. And it was at
about thirty five or thirty four weeks which things started
to look a little bit scary.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
The cancer side.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yes, So at that point my cancer levels had been
they were growing, they were rising, but they were not
rising to the point that it was going to affect
my physical health and heading to that stage of acute likemia, right,
(19:19):
But once it kind of started to hit the bit
of a threshold, then it would kind of almost proliferate
because if you think about the cell proliferations like two,
then four, then eight. So it was growing slowly at first,
but then it started to get a bit worrying, and
so my specialist said, look, let's we think you need
to be induced early, so like as soon as we can.
(19:42):
Four weeks is kind of the earliest that we think
we can induce you with the baby still being healthy enough,
you know.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
So at the thirty six week mark, thirty.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Six, by this time, I was pretty big, and this
baby was getting bigger and bigger by the day, so
I ended up being induced around I think it was
like the eleventh of December, and he didn't want to
come out. He was he was really happy in there,
(20:14):
So ended up doing the sweep, which wasn't very fun.
Want to come out still not happening. Then they're like, well,
the next thing we can do is a balloon catheter,
even less fun. And I just remember sitting in this
kind of room in the hospital that the RPA is
going because they'd give me the green dream. So I
(20:35):
was like wigging out a bit and I was like,
what is going on down there? And I just felt horrible.
But luckily the balloon catheter kicked things off and so
we were yeah, it looked like things are about to
about to start coming together.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Did you have any oxytocin at this point?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Do you know what? I can't remember. I don't think so.
And then they're like, oh, yeah, things look like they're happening.
Not enough, So that's when I had the oxytocin. And
it was when I had the oxytocin that they're like,
all right, we are go.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Time came on.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
So I was kind of the mindset that like, give
me whatever drugs you need. I've had enough drama in
this pregnancy.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I love the idea of water births and home berths
and stuff like that. I was like, if the doctors
are going to say do this, I'm just gonna put
my hand up see whatever, because who knows things go
really pear shaped? I don't know, So I'm just going
to try and go along for the ride. See what happens.
So I was like, yep, give me the epidural, please,
thank you. And then I think it was about like
(21:41):
an hour later, like I was pretty like fully dilated
by then or nearly. I was in a lot of pain.
I was like, this is no, I don't want to
do this. Like I was exhausted because it had kind
of come on so quickly once the oxytocin kind of
kicked in. And they're like you shouldn't be like this,
like you've had an epidural. And the nurse came over
(22:02):
and she's like is this can you feel this? And
she put an ice pack on my leg and I
was like, yeah, that's freezing and she's like oh, and
you know when they the face and they're like I
was like what. So she's like, I might just have
to speak to the anathetist. So the anethesis comes back
and she's like, look, I don't think the epi durol
(22:22):
has properly worked. And I was like, god, well yeah,
because I was like, this is really I'm dying here.
And so they, luckily they gave it another crack, and
I was like, once it kicked in you when you know,
you know, I was like, oh, this is what it's
supposed to feel like. So I'm reading mags it had
(22:43):
a nap.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I had a nap perfect.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And then they're like, okay, it's time to you know,
start getting the child out. I was like, oh, okay, great,
and they're like, yeah, okay, push and I was like,
is this right? And you have to almost remember how
to push because you don't feel anything. And it's almost
like I think the second FIE had like fully, I
couldn't feel a thing, and I was going, you know
what if I'm ripped from you know, vadge to anus,
(23:09):
so be it right because I don't feel anything. Now
we can figure that out once sew me up, to
sew me up exactly. Just make sure you know there's
a bit more of this epi dural stuff going on anyway.
So I'm pushing because this child had like it was
four weeks early, but he was still a big kid.
I was pretty sure at this point. So they're like, yep,
(23:31):
just keep pushing, and then all of a sudden outcomes
this baby, three point one kilos, perfect, absolutely, you know,
ten fingers, ten toes, and I just couldn't believe it.
Like just the fact that this whole thing had come
to a head with this child in my arms was
(23:55):
hard to kind of fathom. My guess. Took a couple
of days for that to really kick in. Actually it did.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
And yeah, I mean I think that even without a
leukemia diagnosis, seeing a child for the first time is remarkable.
But being told to terminate a pregnancy because of your
own health, pushing through and then delivering a perfectly healthy,
beautiful baby boy, you must have just been you and
(24:21):
neck must have just been elated.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Do you know what the relief that I think after
I had him, you know, when you get the baby blues,
it was that was pretty intense because it came. I
felt like I'd almost subconsciously been like holding my breath
for nine months, and I'd been thinking so much about
my child, not myself, and so once that all came out,
(24:46):
I kind of got to think about myself for a minute,
and that's when I kind of had a real crash.
My mental health just kind of went in a way
because I'd kind of gotten through that and I'd been
surrounded by so much love, which was great, But then
I was like, oh my god. I hadn't even really
been thinking about the next step, like having a baby
(25:08):
and being a mom. You know, this was all stuff
that I think, you know, you've got that nine months
to prepare for, but in my mind, I was like,
just get through the day, just you know, survive. And
I was so present that I wasn't really thinking to
the future. So when I had the baby, I was like,
oh my god. And then I had to start treatment,
so that was like another thing. And yeah, it was
(25:29):
full on the first few weeks after having tour, to be.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Honest, Yeah, how soon after having tour did you start
the treatment?
Speaker 3 (25:39):
So after I had him, my levels went down, which
was really great, and I really wanted to try and
breastfeed if I could, just because you know, he'd been
in a body that was not well and I kind
of just really wanted to make sure that he had
a good kind of start, and so they said, look,
(26:00):
we can delay it a couple of weeks. And so
I think I had three or four weeks to breastfeed.
And I was so determined to fill the freezer up
that I was just like on a mission. So I
wasn't sleeping. I was like, you know, hardly eating, and
I just wanted to breastfeed. And you know the emotional
impact that it can have on you. I just remember
(26:21):
like sitting in my laund room with these pumps, just
like wailing. That's kind of the I guess the best
or the clearest vision that I have in those first
few weeks after tour.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Unfortunately, Yeah, I know, all you can hear is that
and your body, you're feeling broken, You're exhausted, the baby
that it's like it is, you know, for those who
do have postpartum anxiety depression, it is very hard to
(26:53):
enjoy those golden weeks when you feel so awful. Yeah,
and it's hard to I think to just describe to
a lot of people how challenging that is mentally when
you are feeling obviously very grateful, but your mind's not
(27:13):
in that same space.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
No, I mean, you've done so much international travel in
your time. The best thing I can think think about,
like describing those first few weeks is like I'd done
trips to New York in economy back and forth about
twelve times. I just didn't I couldn't figure out what
day it was. I didn't know who I was. I
(27:36):
was emotional, I was exhausted, I was hungry but stressed,
and yeah, no I did. To be fair, I did
not like the first six weeks. After that, it was
like the sun came out of the clouds. I was like,
oh my god, Okay, I've got this. But yeah, I
(27:56):
don't know. It's like you're in this weird bubble. But
not for me. It wasn't in a good way.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, I'm with you. With my first it was the same.
I was not in a good bubble. I was in
a it was very, very challenging. So I really empathized
with that. But then you started your treatment, your cancer
treatment with this four week old baby. What was that process?
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Like it's I feel like, I don't know, this sounds
really weird, but I feel like the first like couple
of years of having taur, like I reckon the first
year and a half, I don't remember a lot, which
sounds really weird, but I think because there's so much
(28:45):
repetition and routine that I look back at the photos
and I go, oh, yeah, you know that day, that day,
But it's almost like my body was like, nah, you
don't really need to remember kind of these moments where
you're you know, a bit stressed. And I don't know,
it was like that all of the anxiety that I
managed to kind of keep away and just kind of
flooded in a bit. And yeah, I started to kind
(29:08):
of get a little bit stressed about you know, now
I had this other, like my heart was just in
front of me, and now I had to look after
this child, and so I started to kind of go, oh,
my god, I'm going to put my stress on you,
and then I'm going to put my stress on like
everything that I eat, because I, you know, I want
to look after myself. And so I just I became
(29:28):
a little bit neurotic. And I think that that was
not a good good time of my life in a
lot of ways. And I did enjoy moments of motherhood
that was probably you know, being with Tour and interacting
with him were the highlights, but the rest of it
just that readjustment was a bit tough, and I really
don't feel like I found my feet as a mom
(29:49):
until he was about three. To be fair, Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Think that that's that abnormal. Honestly. I often tell moms,
like a year the first birthday party, that's celebration of you,
like you did that, Like you did that, and then
you're also going through all of your other stuff. But
you know, here we are, we're nine years later, and
(30:14):
thankfully you were still here with us. Yes, are you
still on your treatments?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Yeah? So, Look, I mean it's something that I am
potentially going to be on permanently. But I mean the
work that the Lakemi Foundation is doing to you know,
fund research, and I think after COVID as well, I
feel like medical research really started to hit it stride
(30:40):
and there's almost that compound effect. And I really do
feel like with such a tension on the medical world,
we're getting closer and closer to a cure for the
cancer that I have. And if not, that's okay. You know,
if I lead a healthy lifestyle, I can continue on
this medication, which is great. And but look, I hope
(31:04):
that you know, for anyone who might not be you know,
who might have a cancer that perhaps hasn't found a
really really successful treatment that all of this research is
going to sooner than later be able to change that
for them. And that's you know, that's I guess why
I'm so passionate about, you know, working with the Looking Foundation.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
And yeah, Elle, you told that story so beautifully and
I'm so happy that you have this beautiful, healthy nine
year old who is probably going through a very different
phase now as well.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Oh my gosh, yeah, next level.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
But a truly truly remarkable story and a testament to
your strength and a testament to you know, your intuition
and faith in yourself. And thank you so much for
sharing it with us. And yeah, I'm so happy that
everything is good with you at the moment.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Well, thank you pleading me, sar It.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
With such a challenging pregnancy, we wanted to get some
input from our resident obsatrician and gynecologist, doctor Bromin Devine.
So how does something as serious as a cancer diagnosis
affect a pregnancy.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Firstly, it's really important to acknowledge, as you did, that
this would be one of the most traumatic and overwhelming
and stressful things to have to deal with and so
many decisions to make, but so much progress has been
made in the last decade or so with the management
of pregnant women with a malignancy or with a cancer.
(32:39):
And the whole thing is that we take this wonderful
multidisciplinary approach, so a whole team of people with expertise
would work together. There'd be a big team of an
oncologist and OBS and gunny specialist, a high risk pregnancy specialist,
oncology nurse midwife, ninatal intensive care specialists and ninatal intensive
(33:01):
care nurses, psychologists all coming together to provide support for
the patient and for their family as well. When I
started my training back in the nineties, it was sort
of like, you've got cancer and you're pregnant. You've got
to terminate the pregnancy. There's no way we can treat
you for the cancer and keep the pregnancy safe. But
there's so many for options now and what we try
(33:23):
to do is look at keeping mum as healthy as
possible and Bubb as healthy as possible, and sometimes that
means having bub a bit early, but we take the
pregnancy as far as we can so that the bubb
is born at a gestation where they're going to be
healthy so that mum can start treatment at an optimal time.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Darry Overbirth was hosted by me Casanulukidch with expert input
from doctor Bromwin, Divine and while we have you here,
We're on the hunt to share powerful, underrepresented stories from
people of all cultures, backgrounds, and abilities, so please get
in touch. This episode was produced by Tina Matloff and
myself Casenulukidch, with audio production by Leah Porgies. Looking for
(34:10):
something else to listen to that's baby related, The pregnancy
podcast Hello Bump could be the audio companion you've been
searching for. The latest season is a week by week
guide to pregnancy, holding your hand through the exciting and
sometimes exhausting changes that happen to you and your baby
during pregnancy. Join Olympian tern doctor Yana Pittman as she
(34:34):
guides mom to Bee Grace Roofray through each stage of
her very first pregnancy. This is a podcast about what
you're not expecting when you're expecting
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects
to elders past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to
continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has
been a fundamental part of indigenous culture.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Hi, I'm Cassinia Lukish and this is diary of a birth.
We've all been thrown curveballs in life, but a cancer
diagnosis two days before finding out you're pregnant has to
be one of the toughest blows possible. Today's mum navigated
this unimaginable situation with an immense amount of strength and
(01:08):
got through it all with a beautiful, healthy baby.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
It was just such a brutal thing to happen, something
you've been looking forward to, only to find out after
you've just been basically told that you might not have
long to live.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
After being diagnosed with chronic myloid leukemia and incurable blood cancer,
she was advised by her doctors to terminate her pregnancy,
but ultimately decided that this was meant to be. So
let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Hi, I'm elle and this is the diary of my
birth with tal.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So Elle. You've told your story a number of times
and it is a really difficult time for you, your
journalist in the public eye. You know, I remember when
this happened, as we were colleagues and I saw you
a number of times. But can you tell me a
little bit about what happened, you know, the two days
(02:07):
before you found out that you were pregnant.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yes, So two days before I found out I was
pregnant with my first child, I was diagnosed with a
rare form of blood cancer, which was an absolute shock,
to say the least, and something that you don't expect
to hear when you're thirty years old.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, and were there any symptoms for you? Like, what
was your reason for going to the doctor.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
So ironically, I went to my doctor initially to get
my folate and vitamin D checked because me and my husband,
we've been together for about ten years, married for I
think three, and we kind of thought, okay, my thirtieth
out of the way, let's maybe consider starting a family.
But we were kind of not in a rush, and
(02:56):
so I just wanted to make sure that I kind
of had all my health, you know, looking good before
we did anything, and so it kind of corresponded with
a bit of gastro that I had. So I went
to the doctor. I was like, while I'm here, I
want to get all my blood's taken just to see
how I'm going. And then he got back to me
and he said, folate's okay, so gi vitamin D. But
(03:19):
you've also got something happening with your platelet levels. That
didn't mean anything to me at the time, so I said, okay,
well what does that mean. He said, come back in
a couple of weeks. It might just be a reaction
to the bug you had. And so two weeks later
I went back, got the tests again and the platelets
were actually worse than they were before, so they were higher,
(03:41):
and he said, probably best we go and ReFood to
a specialist just to rule out anything bad. And so
I said, okay, sure, but you know we specialists it
takes forever. So I think it was about nine weeks
or something crazy before I could actually go and see them.
So in that time I kind of just forgot about
it was doing, you know, working too much, as we
(04:05):
all do. I was feeling a bit tired, but not
ridiculously so not concerningly, so if that makes sense. And
so when it came for my appointment, I went and
I got all these blood tests, and the lady at
the hematology department said, look, we'll probably get in touch
(04:28):
with in about three weeks to organize the specialist appointment,
so see you later. So I get home the next day,
which was a Thursday, I get a phone call at
nine am on the dot and it was from the
hematology department at RPA to tell me that no, they
weren't calling me in three weeks. I had to come
(04:50):
and see them on Monday, which was four days from then,
and bring a loved one with me. And I mean,
when you're told to bring someone with you to a
doctor's appointment, you know that it's not going to be
good news. So that was incredibly difficult because I thought,
(05:10):
I'm not going to wait four days to find out
if I'm dying, you know, and the worst things go
through your head. And so my GP managed to kind
of find out what was going on and came over
that night and broke the news to me and my
husband that I was diagnosed with with leukemia, and my
wealth fell apart at that moment.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, it would have hit like a ton of recks.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
It's hard to kind of explain. It's hard to describe.
I guess it's what you feel like, you know, that
moment that you're about to die. Yeah, everything on it
comes full circle and like you're looking down a dark
tunnel and you can't see or hear anything else except
kind of this light in front of you, just like
(05:55):
a deer in headlights.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I guess. Yeah, so you find out and then how
did you find out that you were pregnant?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So you know, you're sitting at home, I'm just like
in this kind of still in shock, I guess. And
I thought to myself, Oh my god, what would be
the worst situation ever if I was pregnant. So I'd
actually taken a pregnancy test about two weeks before because
(06:26):
I was out with some friends and I wanted to
have a drink and I wasn't sure if I was
or not, Like we just weren't being very careful, if
that makes sense. And so I did it and it
was negative, so that was great. But then I bought
a two pac so I thought he's probably gonna ask
on the Monday when I go in for the you know,
proper specialist appointment. So I decided to just did the
(06:51):
second test and was not expecting it, but it was positive.
I was like, really, like, is this actually happening to me?
Like you think to the universe, like are you serious? Okay,
give me something to tackle, but don't complicate it like this.
You know, it was just such a brutal thing to happen,
(07:15):
something you've been looking forward to, only to find out
after you've just been basically that you might not have
long to live. You know, at that point of like,
I don't know what this means to me. We hadn't
even met the specialist. All I knew was I had
blood cancer. And when you think about blood cancer, that
sounds pretty bad, right.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Oh, leukemia as well. I mean the word leukemia thrown
around is something that that's also you know, that's really serious.
So this weekend, before your specialist appointment, you and Nick
found out that you're pregnant and you have leukemia. What
are you doing on that weekend?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I was I was high on drugs, to be honest,
I'd asked my GP to give me some pretty hardcore
muscle relaxance. I'd probably popped way too many than I
should have. So I was in a bit of a
kind of comatose state, just kind of like watching TV
but not watching it, and just imagining me lying in
(08:15):
a hospital bed close to death. You know, you start thinking,
my god, oh my, who am I going to give
my wardrobe too? I haven't even tonde my will yet,
you know, all of those things start going through your mind.
And my husband's on the computer in the background, like
trying to research or trying to figure out what we're
going to do, and I'm just sitting there just going fuck.
And then I just didn't think that there was going
(08:38):
to be any way out of this, Like this is
just going to end badly.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
So when we got to the appointment on the Monday,
it was quite bizarre having to tell him the news
when we already knew what he was going to tell us.
And basically he was like, well, this is a really
rare cancer for someone of your age and gender, because
normally men who are like sixty plus get this disease,
(09:05):
and with blood cancers, it's quite interesting that there really
aren't any direct lifestyle factors associated with the onset of
blood cancer. So I was kind of what have I done?
You know, what could I have done to not have this,
and he's like, look, it's just it's just bad luck.
But it's really weird for you to have it. And
(09:28):
I've never treated anyone who's been in this situation, so
best thing to do. You're my patient. So my advice is,
you know, terminate the pregnancy, go on fertility treatment, and
then we'll put you on these new drugs that are
going to save your life pretty much. And I was like, wow, Okay,
that seems a really like messed up thing to do.
(09:51):
Terminate a child only so that you can go on fertility.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Drugs seems karen intuitive. Yeah, So when they told you
about the cancer, what was the prognosis for the cancer?
Was the cancer treatable? Was it incurable? Was it like?
What was the prognosis?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
So he basically said, it's incurable. However, it's treatable. So
I had a chromosome, two chromosomes twenty six and nine,
which broke apart randomly and switched and attached to each other.
So he said, with this chromosome, we can't reattach them
(10:30):
in the right spots. However, new drugs come on the market.
It's kind of been around only for a few years
before that, chronic leukemia was pretty much a death sentence
three to five year survival rate on average. But these
new drugs change the game. And now if you take
the drugs and they work for you and you can
(10:53):
tolerate them, then you might live a long and healthy life.
That's the plan, that's the hope. If there's a mutation
that can change things, it looks good, but we have
to get onto it really quickly because if it's untreated,
it mutates into an acute form of leukemia, which can
be fatal obviously, So that's why it's really important that
(11:17):
we get these drugs into you pretty quickly. And you
can't be pregnant while you're on them, okay. So I
was like wow, okay, And I didn't know how kind
of progressed the cancer was, so I was all so
many unknowns.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Right How far along were you? Do? You know?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Very early? I was only about four weeks and okay,
And in my mind I was like, well, it seems
so weird that like I've managed to kind of create
a life when my body is not so good, right, Yeah,
And I thought, well, there is a pretty high chance
that it's just going to kind of self terminate it
(11:53):
right if the body's like, well, this is not the
right time to have a baby. So part of me
was like, well, maybe we just wait see if we
get to the twelve weeks. And if we do, then
I'm like, well, is that not kind of a sign
that this kid's a pretty strong kid? And maybe I
give it the benefit of the doubt. And then so
(12:15):
with that kind of thinking in my mind, and then
my husband going, I found this world globally recognized expert
in this particular cancer. Let's go and visit him down
in South Australia. First time I've ever been to Adelaide.
It's lovely, which I'd been more under better circumstances, but
(12:36):
the facility there, the research facility that I went down to,
was just incredible. And doctor Hughes, who is the professor,
he was just amazing us. It. Look, your professor is right,
your hematologist that this is not very common and there
(12:57):
are a lot of risks. But maybe if you do
watch and wait, we can put you on this other
drug which was back in the day, the only kind
of line of defense that they had to treat this cancer,
and it might just give you that extra time before
you can give birth to keep the cancer kind of obey.
(13:19):
So basically it was I had to inject it once
a week.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
And that was safe to take during pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yes, it didn't cross the blood brain barrier.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Into the placenta, yeah, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And it was called interferon and it was what they
used before this other drug called a tki tyras in
Canadian hibita was introduced. So it's like, it's pretty not fun,
Like it's not the funnest struggle to take. Some people
find it really hard, others don't find it too hard.
But it's the best chance we've got. So I was like,
(13:54):
all right, well let's just see how we go. So
that first kind of a few weeks was a waiting game.
But interestingly this happened. This was all going on pretty
much this time nine years ago, so it was the
first week of May that everything kind of happened. So
it was around Mother's Day and that was around the
time that I told my parents and in laws, and
(14:16):
it was just horrible. You know, you want to go,
guess we're pregnant, and for everyone to go yay, but
it was like, guess what, we're pregnant, and people, you know,
my family was like oh my god, Oh my god.
And it was just like seeing a mirror of the
horrible situation that you were facing every time we had
(14:38):
to break the news to them, And for me, it
was just so horrible, kind of feeling like this is
not the way that we wanted to celebrate the announcement
of our child. So it was, Yeah, that was pretty
hard to deal with.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Coming up.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
And then all of a sudden outcomes this baby, three
point one kilos perfect, you know, ten fingers, ten toes.
I just couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
So you start taking the interfere on, your pregnancy starts progressing.
How is your not just your physical health, but I imagine
your mental health would have really struggled during this time.
Did you stop working for a while, did you what
was your kind of battle plan for your mind?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
It's so bizarre. So I've had anxiety since my early twenties,
and I think it's that whole adage that when you're healthy,
you have a thousand problems, when you're sick, you have one.
And that really puts into perspective exactly how I was feeling.
Because I was such an anxious person before all this happened,
(15:52):
and then I kind of it gave me this opportunity
to pause and go, why the fuck was I so
stressed about deadlines and all of these things that really
don't matter in the scheme of things. And so I just,
for the first time in so long, I was mindful
and I was present, and I was like, Wow, I
(16:13):
might have a long life, but I might also have
a short life to live. I better start enjoying it
and be present and appreciating the time I have. And
the anxiety just fell away. And I'd actually never been
in a weird, messed up way more full of joy
in my life because I was given this chance to
(16:36):
clear my mind of all of the bullshit that was
going on in my life that I used to worry
about and literally just stop and spend time with my
own mind and just get outside and walk in nature
and connect with this little thing that was growing inside me.
I'd never felt such peace in my life. It was
(17:00):
so bizarre. And I look back and I go, Wow,
I wish I could get back to that place. Hasn't happened.
I'd get close.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Sometimes you've had a mind shift, for sure. So you're
on these drugs, they're obviously monitoring you very closely, and
bub is growing well and healthy and tours good to
find out the sex.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, so that was really nice because on my birthday,
this was August, I think I was in my halfway
through my second trimester by then, and I was feeling confident.
I was kind of at that point where I was like,
we could be okay here, you know, and I'd started
to feel all of the pregnancy things. And funnily enough,
(17:42):
despite all of the drama at the beginning, actual pregnancy
was fairly non eventful in terms of like he was
growing at a pretty good rate. Head size was extremely
large for his percentile, which was concerning. But on my birthday,
we decided that we were going to do a gender reveal,
(18:02):
so we gave the gender to the cake person, so
we didn't know when we got all of my family together,
and being able to celebrate that kind of made up
for the kind of initial discovery that we were pregnant,
which was so filled with sadness and you know, trepidation.
So it was just such a great feeling to be
(18:24):
able to be there with our families and really celebrate,
you know, this this baby who was so far looking
like he was going to come into the world, so
it was a boy. And then after that it was
kind of just a bit of a waiting game, and
I was getting tested, i think every second week to
(18:45):
see how my levels were going. And it was at
about thirty five or thirty four weeks which things started
to look a little bit scary.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
The cancer side.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yes, So at that point my cancer levels had been
they were growing, they were rising, but they were not
rising to the point that it was going to affect
my physical health and heading to that stage of acute likemia, right,
(19:19):
But once it kind of started to hit the bit
of a threshold, then it would kind of almost proliferate
because if you think about the cell proliferations like two,
then four, then eight. So it was growing slowly at first,
but then it started to get a bit worrying, and
so my specialist said, look, let's we think you need
to be induced early, so like as soon as we can.
(19:42):
Four weeks is kind of the earliest that we think
we can induce you with the baby still being healthy enough,
you know.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
So at the thirty six week mark, thirty.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Six, by this time, I was pretty big, and this
baby was getting bigger and bigger by the day, so
I ended up being induced around I think it was
like the eleventh of December, and he didn't want to
come out. He was he was really happy in there,
(20:14):
So ended up doing the sweep, which wasn't very fun.
Want to come out still not happening. Then they're like, well,
the next thing we can do is a balloon catheter,
even less fun. And I just remember sitting in this
kind of room in the hospital that the RPA is
going because they'd give me the green dream. So I
(20:35):
was like wigging out a bit and I was like,
what is going on down there? And I just felt horrible.
But luckily the balloon catheter kicked things off and so
we were yeah, it looked like things are about to
about to start coming together.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Did you have any oxytocin at this point?
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Do you know what? I can't remember. I don't think so.
And then they're like, oh, yeah, things look like they're happening.
Not enough, So that's when I had the oxytocin. And
it was when I had the oxytocin that they're like,
all right, we are go.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Time came on.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
So I was kind of the mindset that like, give
me whatever drugs you need. I've had enough drama in
this pregnancy.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I love the idea of water births and home berths
and stuff like that. I was like, if the doctors
are going to say do this, I'm just gonna put
my hand up see whatever, because who knows things go
really pear shaped? I don't know, So I'm just going
to try and go along for the ride. See what happens.
So I was like, yep, give me the epidural, please,
thank you. And then I think it was about like
(21:41):
an hour later, like I was pretty like fully dilated
by then or nearly. I was in a lot of pain.
I was like, this is no, I don't want to
do this. Like I was exhausted because it had kind
of come on so quickly once the oxytocin kind of
kicked in. And they're like you shouldn't be like this,
like you've had an epidural. And the nurse came over
(22:02):
and she's like is this can you feel this? And
she put an ice pack on my leg and I
was like, yeah, that's freezing and she's like oh, and
you know when they the face and they're like I
was like what. So she's like, I might just have
to speak to the anathetist. So the anethesis comes back
and she's like, look, I don't think the epi durol
(22:22):
has properly worked. And I was like, god, well yeah,
because I was like, this is really I'm dying here.
And so they, luckily they gave it another crack, and
I was like, once it kicked in you when you know,
you know, I was like, oh, this is what it's
supposed to feel like. So I'm reading mags it had
(22:43):
a nap.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I had a nap perfect.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
And then they're like, okay, it's time to you know,
start getting the child out. I was like, oh, okay, great,
and they're like, yeah, okay, push and I was like,
is this right? And you have to almost remember how
to push because you don't feel anything. And it's almost
like I think the second FIE had like fully, I
couldn't feel a thing, and I was going, you know
what if I'm ripped from you know, vadge to anus,
(23:09):
so be it right because I don't feel anything. Now
we can figure that out once sew me up, to
sew me up exactly. Just make sure you know there's
a bit more of this epi dural stuff going on anyway.
So I'm pushing because this child had like it was
four weeks early, but he was still a big kid.
I was pretty sure at this point. So they're like, yep,
(23:31):
just keep pushing, and then all of a sudden outcomes
this baby, three point one kilos, perfect, absolutely, you know,
ten fingers, ten toes, and I just couldn't believe it.
Like just the fact that this whole thing had come
to a head with this child in my arms was
(23:55):
hard to kind of fathom. My guess. Took a couple
of days for that to really kick in. Actually it did.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
And yeah, I mean I think that even without a
leukemia diagnosis, seeing a child for the first time is remarkable.
But being told to terminate a pregnancy because of your
own health, pushing through and then delivering a perfectly healthy,
beautiful baby boy, you must have just been you and
(24:21):
neck must have just been elated.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Do you know what the relief that I think after
I had him, you know, when you get the baby blues,
it was that was pretty intense because it came. I
felt like I'd almost subconsciously been like holding my breath
for nine months, and I'd been thinking so much about
my child, not myself, and so once that all came out,
(24:46):
I kind of got to think about myself for a minute,
and that's when I kind of had a real crash.
My mental health just kind of went in a way
because I'd kind of gotten through that and I'd been
surrounded by so much love, which was great, But then
I was like, oh my god. I hadn't even really
been thinking about the next step, like having a baby
(25:08):
and being a mom. You know, this was all stuff
that I think, you know, you've got that nine months
to prepare for, but in my mind, I was like,
just get through the day, just you know, survive. And
I was so present that I wasn't really thinking to
the future. So when I had the baby, I was like,
oh my god. And then I had to start treatment,
so that was like another thing. And yeah, it was
(25:29):
full on the first few weeks after having tour, to be.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Honest, Yeah, how soon after having tour did you start
the treatment?
Speaker 3 (25:39):
So after I had him, my levels went down, which
was really great, and I really wanted to try and
breastfeed if I could, just because you know, he'd been
in a body that was not well and I kind
of just really wanted to make sure that he had
a good kind of start, and so they said, look,
(26:00):
we can delay it a couple of weeks. And so
I think I had three or four weeks to breastfeed.
And I was so determined to fill the freezer up
that I was just like on a mission. So I
wasn't sleeping. I was like, you know, hardly eating, and
I just wanted to breastfeed. And you know the emotional
impact that it can have on you. I just remember
(26:21):
like sitting in my laund room with these pumps, just
like wailing. That's kind of the I guess the best
or the clearest vision that I have in those first
few weeks after tour.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Unfortunately, Yeah, I know, all you can hear is that
and your body, you're feeling broken, You're exhausted, the baby
that it's like it is, you know, for those who
do have postpartum anxiety depression, it is very hard to
(26:53):
enjoy those golden weeks when you feel so awful. Yeah,
and it's hard to I think to just describe to
a lot of people how challenging that is mentally when
you are feeling obviously very grateful, but your mind's not
(27:13):
in that same space.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
No, I mean, you've done so much international travel in
your time. The best thing I can think think about,
like describing those first few weeks is like I'd done
trips to New York in economy back and forth about
twelve times. I just didn't I couldn't figure out what
day it was. I didn't know who I was. I
(27:36):
was emotional, I was exhausted, I was hungry but stressed,
and yeah, no I did. To be fair, I did
not like the first six weeks. After that, it was
like the sun came out of the clouds. I was like,
oh my god, Okay, I've got this. But yeah, I
(27:56):
don't know. It's like you're in this weird bubble. But
not for me. It wasn't in a good way.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, I'm with you. With my first it was the same.
I was not in a good bubble. I was in
a it was very, very challenging. So I really empathized
with that. But then you started your treatment, your cancer
treatment with this four week old baby. What was that process?
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Like it's I feel like, I don't know, this sounds
really weird, but I feel like the first like couple
of years of having taur, like I reckon the first
year and a half, I don't remember a lot, which
sounds really weird, but I think because there's so much
(28:45):
repetition and routine that I look back at the photos
and I go, oh, yeah, you know that day, that day,
But it's almost like my body was like, nah, you
don't really need to remember kind of these moments where
you're you know, a bit stressed. And I don't know,
it was like that all of the anxiety that I
managed to kind of keep away and just kind of
flooded in a bit. And yeah, I started to kind
(29:08):
of get a little bit stressed about you know, now
I had this other, like my heart was just in
front of me, and now I had to look after
this child, and so I started to kind of go, oh,
my god, I'm going to put my stress on you,
and then I'm going to put my stress on like
everything that I eat, because I, you know, I want
to look after myself. And so I just I became
(29:28):
a little bit neurotic. And I think that that was
not a good good time of my life in a
lot of ways. And I did enjoy moments of motherhood
that was probably you know, being with Tour and interacting
with him were the highlights, but the rest of it
just that readjustment was a bit tough, and I really
don't feel like I found my feet as a mom
(29:49):
until he was about three. To be fair, Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Think that that's that abnormal. Honestly. I often tell moms,
like a year the first birthday party, that's celebration of you,
like you did that, Like you did that, and then
you're also going through all of your other stuff. But
you know, here we are, we're nine years later, and
(30:14):
thankfully you were still here with us. Yes, are you
still on your treatments?
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Yeah? So, Look, I mean it's something that I am
potentially going to be on permanently. But I mean the
work that the Lakemi Foundation is doing to you know,
fund research, and I think after COVID as well, I
feel like medical research really started to hit it stride
(30:40):
and there's almost that compound effect. And I really do
feel like with such a tension on the medical world,
we're getting closer and closer to a cure for the
cancer that I have. And if not, that's okay. You know,
if I lead a healthy lifestyle, I can continue on
this medication, which is great. And but look, I hope
(31:04):
that you know, for anyone who might not be you know,
who might have a cancer that perhaps hasn't found a
really really successful treatment that all of this research is
going to sooner than later be able to change that
for them. And that's you know, that's I guess why
I'm so passionate about, you know, working with the Looking Foundation.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
And yeah, Elle, you told that story so beautifully and
I'm so happy that you have this beautiful, healthy nine
year old who is probably going through a very different
phase now as well.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Oh my gosh, yeah, next level.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
But a truly truly remarkable story and a testament to
your strength and a testament to you know, your intuition
and faith in yourself. And thank you so much for
sharing it with us. And yeah, I'm so happy that
everything is good with you at the moment.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Well, thank you pleading me, sar It.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
With such a challenging pregnancy, we wanted to get some
input from our resident obsatrician and gynecologist, doctor Bromin Devine.
So how does something as serious as a cancer diagnosis
affect a pregnancy.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Firstly, it's really important to acknowledge, as you did, that
this would be one of the most traumatic and overwhelming
and stressful things to have to deal with and so
many decisions to make, but so much progress has been
made in the last decade or so with the management
of pregnant women with a malignancy or with a cancer.
(32:39):
And the whole thing is that we take this wonderful
multidisciplinary approach, so a whole team of people with expertise
would work together. There'd be a big team of an
oncologist and OBS and gunny specialist, a high risk pregnancy specialist,
oncology nurse midwife, ninatal intensive care specialists and ninatal intensive
(33:01):
care nurses, psychologists all coming together to provide support for
the patient and for their family as well. When I
started my training back in the nineties, it was sort
of like, you've got cancer and you're pregnant. You've got
to terminate the pregnancy. There's no way we can treat
you for the cancer and keep the pregnancy safe. But
there's so many for options now and what we try
(33:23):
to do is look at keeping mum as healthy as
possible and Bubb as healthy as possible, and sometimes that
means having bub a bit early, but we take the
pregnancy as far as we can so that the bubb
is born at a gestation where they're going to be
healthy so that mum can start treatment at an optimal time.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Darry Overbirth was hosted by me Casanulukidch with expert input
from doctor Bromwin, Divine and while we have you here,
We're on the hunt to share powerful, underrepresented stories from
people of all cultures, backgrounds, and abilities, so please get
in touch. This episode was produced by Tina Matloff and
myself Casenulukidch, with audio production by Leah Porgies. Looking for
(34:10):
something else to listen to that's baby related, The pregnancy
podcast Hello Bump could be the audio companion you've been
searching for. The latest season is a week by week
guide to pregnancy, holding your hand through the exciting and
sometimes exhausting changes that happen to you and your baby
during pregnancy. Join Olympian tern doctor Yana Pittman as she
(34:34):
guides mom to Bee Grace Roofray through each stage of
her very first pregnancy. This is a podcast about what
you're not expecting when you're expecting
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