June 17, 2025 • 32 mins
After navigating IVF and finally welcoming her beautiful daughter Camilla into the world, Anna Bamford's birth journey took an unexpected and frightening turn. In this weeks episode, Anna shares her story, and her journey to get answers for a medical complication which was initially dismissed, despite her growing intuition that something wasn't right.
When Anna lost nearly 1.5 litres of blood immediately after delivery, doctors assured her they had removed all placental tissue—but her body told a different story. As she struggled desperately with breastfeeding, Anna couldn't shake the feeling that retained placenta was affecting her milk supply. For six long weeks, she fought to be heard by medical professionals who repeatedly dismissed her concerns.
Anna vulnerably recounts the emotional toll of feeling "gaslit" by the medical system and the vindication—yet frustration—of finally receiving an ultrasound at six weeks postpartum that confirmed placenta accreta. She reflects on the importance of trusting your instincts as a new mother, advocating for yourself even when experts disagree, and finding peace with the feeding journey that works for your family.
Diary Of A Birth features mums sharing their heartfelt stories of bringing life into the world. Share your birth story at podcast@mamamia.com.au or send a voice note here.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects
to elders, past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to
continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has
been a fundamental part of Indigenous culture.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I am Cassania Lukic and this is diary of a birth.
Part of the reason I love doing this podcast is
creating awareness for some of the lesser known complications of
pregnancy and birth, not to scare our listeners, but to
help inform and educate. After finding out she had a
low egg count, Today's mum went down the IVF route,
(01:08):
but it wasn't until after her baby was born that
things really became more complicated.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I ended up losing quite a lot of blood. My
placenta had come out, but she said, I think there's
some placenta still inside you, so I have to actually
manually go in and scoop it out.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
After getting home and struggling to breastfeed, our mum knew
something was up and she fought to get answers. So
let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Hi, I'm Anna Bamford. And this is the diary of
my birth with Camilla.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So Anna, We've kind of known each other for a
few years. We used to work together back of the day,
kind of cross paths multiple times, and I was so
happy when you reached out to tell your story, because
while it is a really difficult story, I think it's
a really important one fast to share. So what I
(02:07):
wanted to start with is kind of the challenges around
falling pregnant for you for the first time.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, I first fell pregnant at the end of twenty
twenty two and it was a surprise and I couldn't
get in to see a doctor until I was nine
weeks pregnant, and that pregnancy ended up in a missed miscarriage.
(02:36):
So I ended up having a DNC.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So being based in the US in terms of finding
fertility support and an IBF specialist, how does it work there?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
LA is really one of the most you know, people
come to LA to do IVF. There are a lot
of clinics here. I was lucky in that I was
I'm very close friends with a girl who really struggled
to get pregnant and she had a few different clinics
that she had sort of interviewed or spoken with. So
(03:13):
she shared those names with me and I, yeah, just
started calling and asking what the process was. In that time,
I also had another miscarriage, so that's sort of further
you know, cemented for Tyson, my husband and I that
we we really needed to do this.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah. So two chemical pregnancies within the space of what
six months?
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, so two.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Chemical pregnancies in the space of six months. Low amh.
High stress job. That's a lot of pressure on you
and Tyson. So you find your doctor, you start going
through the IVF process. How did you go with your
sort of first round of retrievals.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, so that surprisingly went really well, and you know
the egg process of you have so many eggs and
then you have so many embryos and it gets smaller
and smaller, and we chose to also do the genetic
testing with that, so we ended up, you know, with
(04:21):
a certain number of embryos and decided to transfer pretty
well straight away and were very lucky in that it
was successful.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
How did you feel throughout your pregnancy overall?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I felt amazing and so lucky, you know. I think
we had had a year of really high stress, and
I think also just being surrounded by a lot of
friends that were, you know, doing the same thing or
getting pregnant and sharing such amazing news. That was really tough.
(04:56):
And there's some self preservation that comes along with that
because you want to obviously be happy for them, but
it's really tough. But the pregnancy itself, I was sick.
I had pretty bad morning sickness for like the first
fourteen fifteen weeks and it wasn't really until maybe about
(05:16):
twenty twenty three weeks where I thought, Okay, I can
relax here and really enjoy it. But yeah, the pregnancy
itself was pretty straightforward.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So at thirty eight weeks, you get induced because your
body sort of started to be getting ready. Is that correct.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I decided to get induced purely because she said she's
measuring big, and this is what I think is the
best course for you. And so I was induced at
thirty nine and one. But the week before, at thirty
eight weeks, we were about to go out for dinner
and I went to the bathroom and I started bleeding,
(05:58):
and so we went to the hospital and they did
an ultrasound and they said, oh, you're a centimeter and
a half dilated. You know, the baby could come tonight
or into three weeks, So go home or go out
to dinner, keep doing what you're doing, and call us
if there's any change. And then I think a few
(06:20):
days later, my mucus plug fell out and I thought, okay,
my body is like getting ready, and I spoke to
the doctor and she yeah. It wasn't until then that
we decided, Okay, we're going to induce in like three
days from now. So it was a real last minute call.
But she had said, your body's already getting ready, so
(06:43):
you won't need the gel, which is the first step
of induction here, so we just went straight to the
Foley balloon.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So they put the Foley balloon in, which it basically
is to help open the cervix exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, and that was pretty manageable. It wasn't until they
went to pull it out that the pain really really started.
But I sort of wanted to feel that pain a
little bit, so we went in at two am for
my induction and I ended up getting an epi at
(07:21):
about six centimeters dilated.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Okay, so they gave you the balloon, you're doing your
contractions and you're just in the hospital contracting.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, naturally, Well, they gave me the balloon and potosin
Okay to bring on the contractions, and they would come
in every hour and turn up the potosin and she go,
how are you going now? And I'm okay, I'm all right.
She go, okay, all right, all right, And then I
think it was about two pm when I got the epidural,
(07:56):
but I remember her saying, do you still want to
go to the bathroom? And I said, well, yeah, if
I could. She said, all right, We're going to give
you a walking EPI. It's sort of like a certain
dosage so you can still be able to go to
the bathroom. So I did that, and I remember when
the anithetist came in and he was about to put
(08:19):
the needle in my back and he said, oh, I
don't know about this dosage. I don't know about the
walking EPI. And the nurse was like, yeah, yeah, you know,
it's like and they sort of went off to the
corner and talked. And I have trust in medical professionals
until they showed me otherwise. And that was a moment
where I was like, oh my gosh, what is going on?
(08:40):
And then the head an ethetist came in and she said, here,
let me do it. And she talked to me and
she was really calm. She was like, oh, you're having
a baby, girl, that's so exciting. All right, the Eppie's
done and walked out, and then I fell asleep and
I went and I had a really nice nap for
(09:01):
a couple of hours. And I woke up and you know,
my husband's there in the room. I think we had
watched like two movies or he had watched two movies,
and I was sort of dozing on and off, and
the midwife came in to check and she it was
ten forty five and she checked. She went, well, you're
nine centimeters dilated. You ready to push? And I was like, yeah,
(09:25):
let's do this. So that is kind of how it went.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And she came out perfect, perfect. You pushed fifty five
minutes of pushing. Is he what I've got?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah? It was fifty five minutes of pushing. And the
midwife called my obgyn and said she's ready to go,
and my OBI said, well, why didn't you call me earlier?
And she said, well, she just woke up and she's
going to start pushing. And so my ob was at home,
you know, and she had to drive in. Luckily it
was like eleven at night. She got in for the
(10:00):
last kind of half an hour of pushing, and yeah,
she came out and was perfect. You imagine what it's
going to be like. And for me, her coming out
and being on my chest was really like as I'd
imagined it.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
It like makes me tear up every time I talk
about that moment with mums because for me, it's like
such a visceral feeling that first time that they put
on your chest. But the complications that you encountered were
(10:42):
after Camilla came out. Can you tell us a little
bit about what happened after Camilla was born?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So she came out, was on my chest, and she
she's always been a really strong baby. She lifted her
neck or up and kind of we looked at each
other and it was just like this amazing moment. My
husband was there by my side, and we were just
there in the moment. You know, it really feels like
(11:09):
everything around you is muted out, you know, and you
just kind of they're just that. It was like the
three of us. And then I looked at my Obi
and she had a look of concern on her face,
and I said what's going on, Like, what's happening? And
(11:33):
I had noticed at that point there was maybe six
more people in the room than there was before she
came out, and she said, oh, you're losing a lot
of blood. I'm just trying to fix that right now.
And I was like okay, okay, you know, and still
sort of trying to just be in the moment, not
really realizing what actually was happening. And I sort of
(11:56):
looked at Tyson and he kind of kept looking down
at her, and I saw his face starting to get
more and more concerned as well. And then the nurse
came up and said, oh, we're going to take your
daughter and she's going to have skin on skin with
your husband just over here, like I could see them.
But we need to give you an injection to stop
the bleeding, and some pills as well. And it all
seems like such a blur, and I remember I took
(12:20):
the the pills, but then I vomited them up straight
away and it was all, yeah, it just felt like
the room was spinning, and I ended up losing quite
a lot of blood and she managed to stop the bleeding.
My placenta had come out, but she said, I think
(12:40):
there's some placenta still inside you, so I have to
actually manually go in and scoop it out.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So generally, I think what happens. That's why they check
the placenta when you delivered the placenta. They need to
make sure that they've got all of it out. But
obviously yours had detached.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, exactly, And so she said, I've got to go in,
and obviously I had the EPI, so I couldn't really
feel it, and she, yeah, put her hand in and
scooped it out, I guess, And I remembered that her face.
I could. I was just looking at her face and
thinking something is not right. But I think in that
(13:21):
whole time I was in shock. I remember feeling like
nurses coming up to me and talking to me and
literally seeing their mouths moving, but then hearing what they
were saying like a couple of seconds later. Like it
was a really surreal, scary feeling, but also wanting to
(13:41):
just be with Cammi and my husband, and so then
I stabilized and they moved me into postpartum at about
three thirty am, and that was counted as night one,
and we were in there for two nights. And I
(14:01):
remember the next morning my obg Ayn came back, who
delivered Camilla, and I said, I'm really scared. You didn't
get all the placenta, and she said, I did. I did.
I went in and I scooped it out and I
got it and it's all good. But I could feel
again and that something wasn't right. Camilla latched straight away,
(14:26):
and I think this is where I get emotional, because
I felt like I let her down, you know, in
some way, like she was really like, they're on the boob,
good to go, and I just could feel that I
wasn't producing milk, and it was obviously very early, but
I also wasn't even producing colostrum. You know. She was crying,
(14:50):
crying and crying, and I was like, she's just hungry,
Like she's really really hungry. I need a lactation specialist
to come in here and help me. And the lactation
specialists and the nurse are kind of coming up and
like literally grabbing your boob and trying to get stuff out,
and nothing was really coming out for me, and I
(15:12):
just felt helpless because I knew I had lost a
lot of blood, so I was really trying to hydrate
and do all the things to get it going, but
nothing was working. I mean I was getting the tiniest
amount coming up. A week later, I went to the
bathroom and this thing fell out of me and I
(15:36):
was like, oh my gosh, this is some of my placenta.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Did you get an iron infusion or a transfusion at all?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
No? I didn't.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Do you know how much blood you lost?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah? I lost almost a later and a half.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
And they didn't give you an infusion or transfusion.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, I know. And I remember them really clearly saying,
we might move you to another room to give you
a transfusion, but we're monitoring the situation. I remember going okay, okay,
and yeah, they never did because from what I remember
and what Tyson remembers is I stabilized and they moved
(16:19):
me into the postpartum ward. A later and a half
is quite I know, a lot significant. Yeah, And I
remember when we came home. Through my health insurance, I
had I think it was twelve visits with a lactation
specialist and she came over and I told her what
(16:40):
was happening. She said, you know, you could have almost died.
Like that was really scary, and I think it was
only then that I realized the seriousness of the situation.
And when we got home, you know, we were totally
in love with Camilla and new parents and it was
(17:03):
all really exciting, but the feeding thing was really I
knew something was up. So I called the lactation specialist
and she came over and she's talked to me about
triple feeding. So triple feeding is when they tell you
to first pump for thirty minutes, then put the baby
(17:26):
on your boob for thirty minutes, and then the third
one is top up with.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Formula, basically trying to get your supply going.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, so I was I was doing all of that
around the clock, like all the time, and my supply
just was not increasing at all. And I said to
my husband, like, I think this is something to do
with my placenta. Like when the placenta comes out, that
is what signals to the brain that it's time to
(17:55):
start the milk. And he said, you know, I mean
we both know now, but like he was like it's
all right, Like the doctor checked, and the doctor did
check anyway, So yeah, it was a whole really really
hard situation to try and work out. And I think
you know, before even having a baby, like, I hadn't
(18:17):
thought about, oh what if my milk doesn't come in.
I guess I was naive and I thought, Oh, it's
just going to happen for me, you know. And so
then a week later I went to the bathroom and
this thing fell out of me and I was like, oh,
my gosh, this is some of my placenta. And that
(18:39):
was about ten thirty at night, and I was worried.
I was like, am I going to start bleeding?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
How old was cammy at this time?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
One week? Exactly? A week?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Okay, So a week after a piece of tissue falls out, Yeah,
and you're like, this is my placenta. Your intuition is
telling you, as it had since the hospital, that there
was still placenta there.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, And I kid you not. The next day my
supply slightly increased, and I was like, oh my goodness,
this is placenta. So I went back to the hospital
the next day. My mom was here by that time,
and I said, can you please do another ultrasound? Like
I literally brought the piece of the thing that had
(19:22):
fallen out of me in a glass jar to the
hospital and I said, please, can you check this and
they came back and they told me that it was
a blood clot and it was no placental tissue whatsoever.
And I was sort of none the wiser, you know.
I thought, Okay, it's a blood clot. There you go.
(19:42):
So then I went back home still continued the whole
triple feeding thing. People listening are probably like, oh my gosh, girl,
why didn't you just put the baby on formula? And
in hindsight, I should have done it earlier, but I
felt this annoying responsibility that I should try my hardest
(20:03):
to breastfeed her. So I did that, and I think
I would pump for like an hour and get like
thirty mils of milk. It was really awful.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I know exactly what you're talking about, that pressure that
we put in ourselves to like, no, I need to breastfeed,
and you kind of get like a bit obsessed. Again.
I had a similar experience, and at one point I
was like, for my mental health, I just need to stop,
Like I can't do this anymore. Yeah, but I really
want to get to your six week appointment. You went
to the doctor and you insisted on them checking you
(20:37):
again because something was still not right.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Well, I actually went to the doctor at two weeks
postpartum and I said, something's not right. My milk supply
is not in and she prescribed me a pill to
take to increase my supply. I went home. I was
chatting with my mom and we looked up the side
effects and they were like full on side effects. And
that's when Mum said to me, Anna, you were fully
(21:03):
formula fed. Your sister was fully formula fed. It is okay,
and I think you have to come to terms with
it in your own way. I think you can have
so many people tell you like it's okay, but you
really just need to get there yourself. You need to
give yourself permission. So many people can tell you just
(21:25):
put them on formula it's all good, but it takes time,
and every woman is going to kind of make that
decision in their own way and their own time.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I agree with you one hundred percent. It really does
need to be an individual decision. Because of the noise.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
And so many people were telling me, but it wasn't
until like I had decided I am going to stop.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Apart from the fact that your milk hadn't come in,
was there something else telling you that there was still
placenter in there.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
I was still bleeding at six weeks at my you know,
six week appointment, and I had heard that the Lokier
or Lockier changes in color and amount, and that stayed
pretty constant for me. I also had this kind of
it was like a pain in my stomach and I
(22:19):
just had this like feeling as well, there's something still there.
And even though you know, my husband, my mom, the
doctor was like, nope, it's gone. I felt crazy. But
I also was like, I have to just follow my
instinct with this. And that brought me to my six
week appointment, which I went in and she basically said,
(22:44):
all right, so do you want to go back on
the contraceptive pill, and you know, and we spoke a
little bit about everything in the feeding situation and I
was still trying, but really much more on formula at
this point. And I think Cammie was getting like one
bottle every three days of breast milk, if that gives
(23:06):
you an understanding, and I'm you know, feeding around the clock. Anyway.
I finally said at the six week appointment, I'd really
like you to do an ultrasound and I just want
to check. And she did an ultrasound, and she came
back in and she said, yeah, there's something there, and
(23:27):
I was like, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Did you feel so vindicated?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Then? Yeah, I felt totally gas lit. I know everyone
throws that word around, but I felt really scared because
I had read, obviously, because I was convinced. So I
had read that, you know, people can get really sick
when they have retained placenta in there that hasn't been
(23:54):
taken out. And yeah, so I was really worried. And
then she said, oh, we need to do a saline sono,
which is when they put salt water up there and
do an ultrasound with salt water in your uterine cavity
to really look at what this is and where it is.
So we did that and then she confirmed it again
(24:16):
and she said, we're going to have to do a
DNC to get this taken out. And I was like,
I hate to say I told you so, you know,
like it was just this awful feeling. And I also
don't I really don't want to make this about the doctor.
She was doing what she could the best she could
(24:36):
with the information she had. You know, she's very experienced.
I've sought her out so I don't want this to
be like a thing about the doctor, because I saw
a few different doctors.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I think it's just more about advocating for yourself. And
we are hearing a lot about this, like if you
really feel something, really pushing for it no matter what
anyone says, because what's the harm?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
And n octo sound exactly. And when I went in
at two weeks and they gave me these pills, I
asked for an ultrasound then and they said, no, just
take these pills. We got all the tissue out, it's
all good. And I really wish I pushed then, so
went and had the DNC and then she said that
(25:22):
there was a lot of bleeding in that DNC. So
I wanted to go and get a second opinion. So
I went to my maternal fetal specialist who I had
seen throughout my pregnancy, and he did an ultrasound and
the tissue is still in my uterus. So with placenta
(25:44):
a creta, it's a very rare condition. It is becoming
more known, but there are three sort of steps to it.
There's a creta where the placenta attaches to the wall.
There's in creta where the placenta actually grows into the
wall of the uterus, and then there's per creta where
the placenta grows through the uterus, and so he thinks
(26:09):
that I have in creta where it's grown into my uterus,
you know. So that was just another thing to face
in the journey of it. But I think at the
time he assured me that there was like no blood
supply to that tissue anymore. So I was worried about,
(26:30):
you know, with retain per Center, they talk about you
hemorrhaging and stepsis, and he assured me that that would
not happen. And what the future holds in terms of,
you know, other pregnancies, we don't know. I don't know.
I have a check up with him in a couple
of months, and I think right now, just focusing like
(26:54):
on the present and being with Cammy and Tyson is
the most important thing and what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
So what do you think you've kind of learned from
this process?
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I mean so many things, but the main thing is
to trust your gut, trust your instincts, and don't be
afraid to advocate for yourself. If you really have a
strong feeling, trust that and follow that and book the appointment.
I mean we hear it with like endometriosis and women
(27:25):
having to see so many different doctors until they get
that diagnosis, and I think it's, Yeah, it's so important
to trust your instincts and follow up on things. I
have no idea the situation that I would be and
had I not demanded that ultrasound, I don't even want
to think about it. But I think we're faced with
(27:48):
so many different decisions when we have a child, and
for me, like feeding was the biggest one, but obviously
you have to come to terms with your own answers
and in your own time, but also just there are
so many decisions. Make the decision because there's going to
(28:09):
be another one.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, thank you for sharing your story so soon after,
Like there's no like tight ending to this. You know
you're still going through it. So really appreciate you sharing
your story while still sort of navigating it.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah. I think that's why I really wanted to, because
it's something that I don't want to scare people, but
I think people should know about it and be aware
of it for.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Sure, because placenta accreta is rare. I wanted to get
some input from our obstrition and gynecologist doctor Bromin Devine
on the condition.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Well, this is a condition known as placenta accreta spectrum
or PAS, it's referred to, and it's a rare complication
in pregnancy, but it is becoming more common. So what
happens is when the placenta forms very early at the
time of implantation, the trofectoom or very early placental tissue
burrows into a specialized lining in the uterus known as
(29:11):
the decidua. But if that happens in an abnormal way,
it can borrow in deeper than the decidua into the
muscle of the uterus and form a very abnormal attachment
and sometimes that can burrow all the way through the
muscle of the uterus or sometimes right through the uterus
into some organs next to the utresus, like sometimes into
(29:31):
the bladder and things like that. So it's a spectrum
of abnormalities, very very serious and can be associated at
the time of the baby's birth and catastrophic bleeding. So
it's something that we do try and pick up while
the person is pregnant, and the best way to pick
it up is usually with a very good quality ultrasound,
and then if we do detect it being present, we
(29:54):
often make a plan for that person to have a
caesarean birth with a hysterectomy at the time of the birth. Now,
obviously that doesn't happen in every circumstance as it happened
in this one, because it wasn't diagnosed till after the
baby was born, and in fact after most of the
placenta came away. So sometimes what can happen is an
isolated part of the placenta can be stuck to the
(30:17):
utress and not come away, as happened in this case.
What that led to was an abnormal establishment of breastfeeding,
because what causes milk production to start is the placenta
coming away, so not being pregnant anymore, the placenta coming away,
loss of all those placental hormones starts the big cascade
(30:39):
that allows breastfeeding to establish. But if there is placenta
left behind, then sometimes that can be interfered with. One
of the reasons we're seeing placenta accrete a spectrum a
little bit more commonly is that we're doing more caesarean sections,
and caesarean sections lead to scarring in the uterus, and
it's scarring in the uterus that can cause the placenta
(31:00):
to sort of burrow through the scar in an abnormal way,
but other things as well, Sometimes having had a curete
in the past with a little bit of scarring associated
with the curete, other types of utrine surgery can lead
to this condition where the placenta doesn't implant properly, it
implants too deeply and right through or through partially through
(31:20):
the utube.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
And what about its effects on future fertility.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
If you've had an normally adherent placenta in the past,
you are at risk for it happening again, And certainly
if you've had uterine surgeries in the past, you're at
risk of placenta a crete a spectrum occurring. So what
would happen in a subsequent pregnancy is and it would
be watched very closely and had some high quality ultrasounds
to determine, because a really good quality ultrasound can see
(31:47):
that interface between the placenta and the uterus and see
if it's abnormally adherent, and then she'd be managed through
the pregnancy according to the risk. So if it was
deemed that it would be more appropriate for her to
look at having a caesarean section berth and then have
her uterus removed. That's a big ask though, because it
means you have your uterus removed. Unless you look at surrogacy,
(32:10):
you're not going to have any more children. So it's
definitely something that is discussed in a very in depth
way with the patient and the treatment team, and it's
often a multidisciplinary team. We have the obstetricians but also
specialist gynecologists who do very complicated surgery, so it's a
very carefully managed pregnancy. The next time Round.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Kasenye Lukich,
with expert input from Dr Bronwin Devine. If you like
our show, don't forget to subscribe and rate. It goes
a long way to allowing us to continue sharing your stories.
This episode was produced by Ella Maitland and myself Kasanye Lukitch,
with audio production by Tina Mattalov,
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. We pay our respects
to elders, past, present and emerging, and feel privileged to
continue the sharing of birth stories and knowledge that has
been a fundamental part of Indigenous culture.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I am Cassania Lukic and this is diary of a birth.
Part of the reason I love doing this podcast is
creating awareness for some of the lesser known complications of
pregnancy and birth, not to scare our listeners, but to
help inform and educate. After finding out she had a
low egg count, Today's mum went down the IVF route,
(01:08):
but it wasn't until after her baby was born that
things really became more complicated.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I ended up losing quite a lot of blood. My
placenta had come out, but she said, I think there's
some placenta still inside you, so I have to actually
manually go in and scoop it out.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
After getting home and struggling to breastfeed, our mum knew
something was up and she fought to get answers. So
let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Hi, I'm Anna Bamford. And this is the diary of
my birth with Camilla.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So Anna, We've kind of known each other for a
few years. We used to work together back of the day,
kind of cross paths multiple times, and I was so
happy when you reached out to tell your story, because
while it is a really difficult story, I think it's
a really important one fast to share. So what I
(02:07):
wanted to start with is kind of the challenges around
falling pregnant for you for the first time.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, I first fell pregnant at the end of twenty
twenty two and it was a surprise and I couldn't
get in to see a doctor until I was nine
weeks pregnant, and that pregnancy ended up in a missed miscarriage.
(02:36):
So I ended up having a DNC.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So being based in the US in terms of finding
fertility support and an IBF specialist, how does it work there?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
LA is really one of the most you know, people
come to LA to do IVF. There are a lot
of clinics here. I was lucky in that I was
I'm very close friends with a girl who really struggled
to get pregnant and she had a few different clinics
that she had sort of interviewed or spoken with. So
(03:13):
she shared those names with me and I, yeah, just
started calling and asking what the process was. In that time,
I also had another miscarriage, so that's sort of further
you know, cemented for Tyson, my husband and I that
we we really needed to do this.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah. So two chemical pregnancies within the space of what
six months?
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, so two.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Chemical pregnancies in the space of six months. Low amh.
High stress job. That's a lot of pressure on you
and Tyson. So you find your doctor, you start going
through the IVF process. How did you go with your
sort of first round of retrievals.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, so that surprisingly went really well, and you know
the egg process of you have so many eggs and
then you have so many embryos and it gets smaller
and smaller, and we chose to also do the genetic
testing with that, so we ended up, you know, with
(04:21):
a certain number of embryos and decided to transfer pretty
well straight away and were very lucky in that it
was successful.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
How did you feel throughout your pregnancy overall?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I felt amazing and so lucky, you know. I think
we had had a year of really high stress, and
I think also just being surrounded by a lot of
friends that were, you know, doing the same thing or
getting pregnant and sharing such amazing news. That was really tough.
(04:56):
And there's some self preservation that comes along with that
because you want to obviously be happy for them, but
it's really tough. But the pregnancy itself, I was sick.
I had pretty bad morning sickness for like the first
fourteen fifteen weeks and it wasn't really until maybe about
(05:16):
twenty twenty three weeks where I thought, Okay, I can
relax here and really enjoy it. But yeah, the pregnancy
itself was pretty straightforward.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So at thirty eight weeks, you get induced because your
body sort of started to be getting ready. Is that correct.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
I decided to get induced purely because she said she's
measuring big, and this is what I think is the
best course for you. And so I was induced at
thirty nine and one. But the week before, at thirty
eight weeks, we were about to go out for dinner
and I went to the bathroom and I started bleeding,
(05:58):
and so we went to the hospital and they did
an ultrasound and they said, oh, you're a centimeter and
a half dilated. You know, the baby could come tonight
or into three weeks, So go home or go out
to dinner, keep doing what you're doing, and call us
if there's any change. And then I think a few
(06:20):
days later, my mucus plug fell out and I thought, okay,
my body is like getting ready, and I spoke to
the doctor and she yeah. It wasn't until then that
we decided, Okay, we're going to induce in like three
days from now. So it was a real last minute call.
But she had said, your body's already getting ready, so
(06:43):
you won't need the gel, which is the first step
of induction here, so we just went straight to the
Foley balloon.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
So they put the Foley balloon in, which it basically
is to help open the cervix exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, and that was pretty manageable. It wasn't until they
went to pull it out that the pain really really started.
But I sort of wanted to feel that pain a
little bit, so we went in at two am for
my induction and I ended up getting an epi at
(07:21):
about six centimeters dilated.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Okay, so they gave you the balloon, you're doing your
contractions and you're just in the hospital contracting.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, naturally, Well, they gave me the balloon and potosin
Okay to bring on the contractions, and they would come
in every hour and turn up the potosin and she go,
how are you going now? And I'm okay, I'm all right.
She go, okay, all right, all right, And then I
think it was about two pm when I got the epidural,
(07:56):
but I remember her saying, do you still want to
go to the bathroom? And I said, well, yeah, if
I could. She said, all right, We're going to give
you a walking EPI. It's sort of like a certain
dosage so you can still be able to go to
the bathroom. So I did that, and I remember when
the anithetist came in and he was about to put
(08:19):
the needle in my back and he said, oh, I
don't know about this dosage. I don't know about the
walking EPI. And the nurse was like, yeah, yeah, you know,
it's like and they sort of went off to the
corner and talked. And I have trust in medical professionals
until they showed me otherwise. And that was a moment
where I was like, oh my gosh, what is going on?
(08:40):
And then the head an ethetist came in and she said, here,
let me do it. And she talked to me and
she was really calm. She was like, oh, you're having
a baby, girl, that's so exciting. All right, the Eppie's
done and walked out, and then I fell asleep and
I went and I had a really nice nap for
(09:01):
a couple of hours. And I woke up and you know,
my husband's there in the room. I think we had
watched like two movies or he had watched two movies,
and I was sort of dozing on and off, and
the midwife came in to check and she it was
ten forty five and she checked. She went, well, you're
nine centimeters dilated. You ready to push? And I was like, yeah,
(09:25):
let's do this. So that is kind of how it went.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
And she came out perfect, perfect. You pushed fifty five
minutes of pushing. Is he what I've got?
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah? It was fifty five minutes of pushing. And the
midwife called my obgyn and said she's ready to go,
and my OBI said, well, why didn't you call me earlier?
And she said, well, she just woke up and she's
going to start pushing. And so my ob was at home,
you know, and she had to drive in. Luckily it
was like eleven at night. She got in for the
(10:00):
last kind of half an hour of pushing, and yeah,
she came out and was perfect. You imagine what it's
going to be like. And for me, her coming out
and being on my chest was really like as I'd
imagined it.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
It like makes me tear up every time I talk
about that moment with mums because for me, it's like
such a visceral feeling that first time that they put
on your chest. But the complications that you encountered were
(10:42):
after Camilla came out. Can you tell us a little
bit about what happened after Camilla was born?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So she came out, was on my chest, and she
she's always been a really strong baby. She lifted her
neck or up and kind of we looked at each
other and it was just like this amazing moment. My
husband was there by my side, and we were just
there in the moment. You know, it really feels like
(11:09):
everything around you is muted out, you know, and you
just kind of they're just that. It was like the
three of us. And then I looked at my Obi
and she had a look of concern on her face,
and I said what's going on, Like, what's happening? And
(11:33):
I had noticed at that point there was maybe six
more people in the room than there was before she
came out, and she said, oh, you're losing a lot
of blood. I'm just trying to fix that right now.
And I was like okay, okay, you know, and still
sort of trying to just be in the moment, not
really realizing what actually was happening. And I sort of
(11:56):
looked at Tyson and he kind of kept looking down
at her, and I saw his face starting to get
more and more concerned as well. And then the nurse
came up and said, oh, we're going to take your
daughter and she's going to have skin on skin with
your husband just over here, like I could see them.
But we need to give you an injection to stop
the bleeding, and some pills as well. And it all
seems like such a blur, and I remember I took
(12:20):
the the pills, but then I vomited them up straight
away and it was all, yeah, it just felt like
the room was spinning, and I ended up losing quite
a lot of blood and she managed to stop the bleeding.
My placenta had come out, but she said, I think
(12:40):
there's some placenta still inside you, so I have to
actually manually go in and scoop it out.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So generally, I think what happens. That's why they check
the placenta when you delivered the placenta. They need to
make sure that they've got all of it out. But
obviously yours had detached.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, exactly, And so she said, I've got to go in,
and obviously I had the EPI, so I couldn't really
feel it, and she, yeah, put her hand in and
scooped it out, I guess, And I remembered that her face.
I could. I was just looking at her face and
thinking something is not right. But I think in that
(13:21):
whole time I was in shock. I remember feeling like
nurses coming up to me and talking to me and
literally seeing their mouths moving, but then hearing what they
were saying like a couple of seconds later. Like it
was a really surreal, scary feeling, but also wanting to
(13:41):
just be with Cammi and my husband, and so then
I stabilized and they moved me into postpartum at about
three thirty am, and that was counted as night one,
and we were in there for two nights. And I
(14:01):
remember the next morning my obg Ayn came back, who
delivered Camilla, and I said, I'm really scared. You didn't
get all the placenta, and she said, I did. I did.
I went in and I scooped it out and I
got it and it's all good. But I could feel
again and that something wasn't right. Camilla latched straight away,
(14:26):
and I think this is where I get emotional, because
I felt like I let her down, you know, in
some way, like she was really like, they're on the boob,
good to go, and I just could feel that I
wasn't producing milk, and it was obviously very early, but
I also wasn't even producing colostrum. You know. She was crying,
(14:50):
crying and crying, and I was like, she's just hungry,
Like she's really really hungry. I need a lactation specialist
to come in here and help me. And the lactation
specialists and the nurse are kind of coming up and
like literally grabbing your boob and trying to get stuff out,
and nothing was really coming out for me, and I
(15:12):
just felt helpless because I knew I had lost a
lot of blood, so I was really trying to hydrate
and do all the things to get it going, but
nothing was working. I mean I was getting the tiniest
amount coming up. A week later, I went to the
bathroom and this thing fell out of me and I
(15:36):
was like, oh my gosh, this is some of my placenta.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Did you get an iron infusion or a transfusion at all?
Speaker 1 (15:47):
No? I didn't.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Do you know how much blood you lost?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah? I lost almost a later and a half.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
And they didn't give you an infusion or transfusion.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, I know. And I remember them really clearly saying,
we might move you to another room to give you
a transfusion, but we're monitoring the situation. I remember going okay, okay,
and yeah, they never did because from what I remember
and what Tyson remembers is I stabilized and they moved
(16:19):
me into the postpartum ward. A later and a half
is quite I know, a lot significant. Yeah, And I
remember when we came home. Through my health insurance, I
had I think it was twelve visits with a lactation
specialist and she came over and I told her what
(16:40):
was happening. She said, you know, you could have almost died.
Like that was really scary, and I think it was
only then that I realized the seriousness of the situation.
And when we got home, you know, we were totally
in love with Camilla and new parents and it was
(17:03):
all really exciting, but the feeding thing was really I
knew something was up. So I called the lactation specialist
and she came over and she's talked to me about
triple feeding. So triple feeding is when they tell you
to first pump for thirty minutes, then put the baby
(17:26):
on your boob for thirty minutes, and then the third
one is top up with.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Formula, basically trying to get your supply going.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, so I was I was doing all of that
around the clock, like all the time, and my supply
just was not increasing at all. And I said to
my husband, like, I think this is something to do
with my placenta. Like when the placenta comes out, that
is what signals to the brain that it's time to
(17:55):
start the milk. And he said, you know, I mean
we both know now, but like he was like it's
all right, Like the doctor checked, and the doctor did
check anyway, So yeah, it was a whole really really
hard situation to try and work out. And I think
you know, before even having a baby, like, I hadn't
(18:17):
thought about, oh what if my milk doesn't come in.
I guess I was naive and I thought, Oh, it's
just going to happen for me, you know. And so
then a week later I went to the bathroom and
this thing fell out of me and I was like, oh,
my gosh, this is some of my placenta. And that
(18:39):
was about ten thirty at night, and I was worried.
I was like, am I going to start bleeding?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
How old was cammy at this time?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
One week? Exactly? A week?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Okay, So a week after a piece of tissue falls out, Yeah,
and you're like, this is my placenta. Your intuition is
telling you, as it had since the hospital, that there
was still placenta there.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, And I kid you not. The next day my
supply slightly increased, and I was like, oh my goodness,
this is placenta. So I went back to the hospital
the next day. My mom was here by that time,
and I said, can you please do another ultrasound? Like
I literally brought the piece of the thing that had
(19:22):
fallen out of me in a glass jar to the
hospital and I said, please, can you check this and
they came back and they told me that it was
a blood clot and it was no placental tissue whatsoever.
And I was sort of none the wiser, you know.
I thought, Okay, it's a blood clot. There you go.
(19:42):
So then I went back home still continued the whole
triple feeding thing. People listening are probably like, oh my gosh, girl,
why didn't you just put the baby on formula? And
in hindsight, I should have done it earlier, but I
felt this annoying responsibility that I should try my hardest
(20:03):
to breastfeed her. So I did that, and I think
I would pump for like an hour and get like
thirty mils of milk. It was really awful.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I know exactly what you're talking about, that pressure that
we put in ourselves to like, no, I need to breastfeed,
and you kind of get like a bit obsessed. Again.
I had a similar experience, and at one point I
was like, for my mental health, I just need to stop,
Like I can't do this anymore. Yeah, but I really
want to get to your six week appointment. You went
to the doctor and you insisted on them checking you
(20:37):
again because something was still not right.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Well, I actually went to the doctor at two weeks
postpartum and I said, something's not right. My milk supply
is not in and she prescribed me a pill to
take to increase my supply. I went home. I was
chatting with my mom and we looked up the side
effects and they were like full on side effects. And
that's when Mum said to me, Anna, you were fully
(21:03):
formula fed. Your sister was fully formula fed. It is okay,
and I think you have to come to terms with
it in your own way. I think you can have
so many people tell you like it's okay, but you
really just need to get there yourself. You need to
give yourself permission. So many people can tell you just
(21:25):
put them on formula it's all good, but it takes time,
and every woman is going to kind of make that
decision in their own way and their own time.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I agree with you one hundred percent. It really does
need to be an individual decision. Because of the noise.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
And so many people were telling me, but it wasn't
until like I had decided I am going to stop.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Apart from the fact that your milk hadn't come in,
was there something else telling you that there was still
placenter in there.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
I was still bleeding at six weeks at my you know,
six week appointment, and I had heard that the Lokier
or Lockier changes in color and amount, and that stayed
pretty constant for me. I also had this kind of
it was like a pain in my stomach and I
(22:19):
just had this like feeling as well, there's something still there.
And even though you know, my husband, my mom, the
doctor was like, nope, it's gone. I felt crazy. But
I also was like, I have to just follow my
instinct with this. And that brought me to my six
week appointment, which I went in and she basically said,
(22:44):
all right, so do you want to go back on
the contraceptive pill, and you know, and we spoke a
little bit about everything in the feeding situation and I
was still trying, but really much more on formula at
this point. And I think Cammie was getting like one
bottle every three days of breast milk, if that gives
(23:06):
you an understanding, and I'm you know, feeding around the clock. Anyway.
I finally said at the six week appointment, I'd really
like you to do an ultrasound and I just want
to check. And she did an ultrasound, and she came
back in and she said, yeah, there's something there, and
(23:27):
I was like, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Did you feel so vindicated?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Then? Yeah, I felt totally gas lit. I know everyone
throws that word around, but I felt really scared because
I had read, obviously, because I was convinced. So I
had read that, you know, people can get really sick
when they have retained placenta in there that hasn't been
(23:54):
taken out. And yeah, so I was really worried. And
then she said, oh, we need to do a saline sono,
which is when they put salt water up there and
do an ultrasound with salt water in your uterine cavity
to really look at what this is and where it is.
So we did that and then she confirmed it again
(24:16):
and she said, we're going to have to do a
DNC to get this taken out. And I was like,
I hate to say I told you so, you know,
like it was just this awful feeling. And I also
don't I really don't want to make this about the doctor.
She was doing what she could the best she could
(24:36):
with the information she had. You know, she's very experienced.
I've sought her out so I don't want this to
be like a thing about the doctor, because I saw
a few different doctors.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I think it's just more about advocating for yourself. And
we are hearing a lot about this, like if you
really feel something, really pushing for it no matter what
anyone says, because what's the harm?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
And n octo sound exactly. And when I went in
at two weeks and they gave me these pills, I
asked for an ultrasound then and they said, no, just
take these pills. We got all the tissue out, it's
all good. And I really wish I pushed then, so
went and had the DNC and then she said that
(25:22):
there was a lot of bleeding in that DNC. So
I wanted to go and get a second opinion. So
I went to my maternal fetal specialist who I had
seen throughout my pregnancy, and he did an ultrasound and
the tissue is still in my uterus. So with placenta
(25:44):
a creta, it's a very rare condition. It is becoming
more known, but there are three sort of steps to it.
There's a creta where the placenta attaches to the wall.
There's in creta where the placenta actually grows into the
wall of the uterus, and then there's per creta where
the placenta grows through the uterus, and so he thinks
(26:09):
that I have in creta where it's grown into my uterus,
you know. So that was just another thing to face
in the journey of it. But I think at the
time he assured me that there was like no blood
supply to that tissue anymore. So I was worried about,
(26:30):
you know, with retain per Center, they talk about you
hemorrhaging and stepsis, and he assured me that that would
not happen. And what the future holds in terms of,
you know, other pregnancies, we don't know. I don't know.
I have a check up with him in a couple
of months, and I think right now, just focusing like
(26:54):
on the present and being with Cammy and Tyson is
the most important thing and what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
So what do you think you've kind of learned from
this process?
Speaker 1 (27:04):
I mean so many things, but the main thing is
to trust your gut, trust your instincts, and don't be
afraid to advocate for yourself. If you really have a
strong feeling, trust that and follow that and book the appointment.
I mean we hear it with like endometriosis and women
(27:25):
having to see so many different doctors until they get
that diagnosis, and I think it's, Yeah, it's so important
to trust your instincts and follow up on things. I
have no idea the situation that I would be and
had I not demanded that ultrasound, I don't even want
to think about it. But I think we're faced with
(27:48):
so many different decisions when we have a child, and
for me, like feeding was the biggest one, but obviously
you have to come to terms with your own answers
and in your own time, but also just there are
so many decisions. Make the decision because there's going to
(28:09):
be another one.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, thank you for sharing your story so soon after,
Like there's no like tight ending to this. You know
you're still going through it. So really appreciate you sharing
your story while still sort of navigating it.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah. I think that's why I really wanted to, because
it's something that I don't want to scare people, but
I think people should know about it and be aware
of it for.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Sure, because placenta accreta is rare. I wanted to get
some input from our obstrition and gynecologist doctor Bromin Devine
on the condition.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Well, this is a condition known as placenta accreta spectrum
or PAS, it's referred to, and it's a rare complication
in pregnancy, but it is becoming more common. So what
happens is when the placenta forms very early at the
time of implantation, the trofectoom or very early placental tissue
burrows into a specialized lining in the uterus known as
(29:11):
the decidua. But if that happens in an abnormal way,
it can borrow in deeper than the decidua into the
muscle of the uterus and form a very abnormal attachment
and sometimes that can burrow all the way through the
muscle of the uterus or sometimes right through the uterus
into some organs next to the utresus, like sometimes into
(29:31):
the bladder and things like that. So it's a spectrum
of abnormalities, very very serious and can be associated at
the time of the baby's birth and catastrophic bleeding. So
it's something that we do try and pick up while
the person is pregnant, and the best way to pick
it up is usually with a very good quality ultrasound,
and then if we do detect it being present, we
(29:54):
often make a plan for that person to have a
caesarean birth with a hysterectomy at the time of the birth. Now,
obviously that doesn't happen in every circumstance as it happened
in this one, because it wasn't diagnosed till after the
baby was born, and in fact after most of the
placenta came away. So sometimes what can happen is an
isolated part of the placenta can be stuck to the
(30:17):
utress and not come away, as happened in this case.
What that led to was an abnormal establishment of breastfeeding,
because what causes milk production to start is the placenta
coming away, so not being pregnant anymore, the placenta coming away,
loss of all those placental hormones starts the big cascade
(30:39):
that allows breastfeeding to establish. But if there is placenta
left behind, then sometimes that can be interfered with. One
of the reasons we're seeing placenta accrete a spectrum a
little bit more commonly is that we're doing more caesarean sections,
and caesarean sections lead to scarring in the uterus, and
it's scarring in the uterus that can cause the placenta
(31:00):
to sort of burrow through the scar in an abnormal way,
but other things as well, Sometimes having had a curete
in the past with a little bit of scarring associated
with the curete, other types of utrine surgery can lead
to this condition where the placenta doesn't implant properly, it
implants too deeply and right through or through partially through
(31:20):
the utube.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
And what about its effects on future fertility.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
If you've had an normally adherent placenta in the past,
you are at risk for it happening again, And certainly
if you've had uterine surgeries in the past, you're at
risk of placenta a crete a spectrum occurring. So what
would happen in a subsequent pregnancy is and it would
be watched very closely and had some high quality ultrasounds
to determine, because a really good quality ultrasound can see
(31:47):
that interface between the placenta and the uterus and see
if it's abnormally adherent, and then she'd be managed through
the pregnancy according to the risk. So if it was
deemed that it would be more appropriate for her to
look at having a caesarean section berth and then have
her uterus removed. That's a big ask though, because it
means you have your uterus removed. Unless you look at surrogacy,
(32:10):
you're not going to have any more children. So it's
definitely something that is discussed in a very in depth
way with the patient and the treatment team, and it's
often a multidisciplinary team. We have the obstetricians but also
specialist gynecologists who do very complicated surgery, so it's a
very carefully managed pregnancy. The next time Round.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Kasenye Lukich,
with expert input from Dr Bronwin Devine. If you like
our show, don't forget to subscribe and rate. It goes
a long way to allowing us to continue sharing your stories.
This episode was produced by Ella Maitland and myself Kasanye Lukitch,
with audio production by Tina Mattalov,
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