May 13, 2025 • 36 mins
When Mamamia's Head of Content, Eliza, found herself unexpectedly pregnant with her third child during what was meant to be a one-year Swedish adventure, life took a beautiful detour. But her planned C-section was not so routine when the spinal anaesthesia failed midway through, causing Eliza to feel the surgical procedure.
After a desperate plea for help and being rushed to be put under general anaesthetic, Eliza describes waking up to the joy of meeting her son August. She shares the cultural differences of Swedish healthcare—celebration sandwiches with tiny flags, their devotion to constant skin-to-skin contact (to the point of no hospital bassinets!), and the staff's bewilderment at her Australian swaddling techniques. Her story beautifully weaves together the unexpected moments of motherhood with cross-cultural discovery.
Diary Of A Birth features mums telling their miraculous stories of bringing life into the world. If you’d like to share your birth story, we’d love to hear from you at podcast@mamamia.com.au or send us a voice note here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You're listening to another MIA podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the
traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is
recorded on. We pay our respects to elders past, present
and emerging, and feel privileged to continue the sharing of
birth stories and knowledge that has been a fundamental part
of indigenous culture.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I'm Cassania Lukit and this is diary of a birth.
Birth is different all over the world, both culturally and financially.
And while I'm fairly familiar with the way the system
works here in Australia, what does pregnancy and birth look
like in a socially democratic society like Sweden. Today's mum
(01:06):
had her first two children here in Australia and looking
for adventure, her and her Swedish partner flew across the
world and relocated to Sweden. Then she unexpectedly felt pregnant.
Navigating pregnancy halfway around the world wasn't always easy, especially
with a very unexpected complication during birth.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I just grabbed Gustaf and I was like, I can
feel everything. Please stop.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hi. I'm Eliza and this is the diary of my
birth with August.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
So you were a part of the Mom and Maya family.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So I'm the head of content at MoMA Mia and
it's so funny. This is actually my first podcast. I'm
normally behind the scenes, but I love this show and
I think every woman loves to tell their birth story,
so here I am.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
As we know, every birth story is very different, and
I think what makes yours really interesting is that you
actually gave birth with your third child in Sweden.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, and that was nothing that I had really expected.
So I had two kids and my husband and I
packed up our lives and we moved to Sweden during COVID.
My husband Swedish, so it wasn't a random decision or
a random country. But we hopped on the plane. There
was only ten other people on the plane. It was
(02:28):
due at the height of the pandemic. And we went
just for a year for an adventure, and we arrived
and we ended up loving it, and we both ended
up getting jobs that we didn't expect. It just became great.
Everything seemed to really be working for us there. A
couple of months in, it would have been like six
(02:49):
months in. At this time, it's like November in Sweden,
so it's starting to snow, it's starting to get really cold.
We just had such a great summer and I started
feeling really sick, and one day I was like, oh
my god, I'm pregnant. I was actually in a cubicle
at work, like I'd gone to work early because I
(03:11):
was like, what's going on with me? I just felt,
you know, you just know. And I did this pregnancy
test and look, it wasn't something we had necessarily wanted.
It was definitely a surprise and it was really hard.
Like I saw that test and I was across the
other side of the world on what we thought was
(03:31):
this adventure year. And we had also had discussions before
where we were like, oh, maybe our family's done. So
you know, this happened, and you know, you're thirty four
and you're like, of course, like we should do this,
you know, but you still felt so much guilt. I
felt so much guilt that I could fall pregnant when
(03:51):
a lot of my friends in Australia were trying to
fall pregnant with their first or second baby, and here
I was with a surprise baby. And so there was
a lot like it was a very hard pregnancy. Those
first couple of weeks of Oh my gosh, I'm across
the other side of the world. I'm away from my
close family. I still have my husband's family here, of course,
(04:11):
but none of my best friends are here. I've fallen
pregnant when a lot of other people would love to
be pregnant. I don't even know if I want this.
So it was there's a lot to take in. And
then coupled with that, I'm heading into my first winter
in Stockholm. So the temperature is minus twenty one degrees,
(04:31):
you can't go outside. I had never even experienced snow.
I'd never seen snow before. So the darkness, the coldness,
coupled with this strange like I don't know what's next
for my life, and then extreme morning sickness. So I
was so sick to the point I ended up in
hospital quite a few times actually, and there was one
(04:55):
incident in hospital where my throat was so sore. I
ended up having strep throat and I couldn't communicate with
the doctors. And because it was during COVID, you were
only allowed to go to the hospital, so my husband
was at home looking after them. I can barely communicate
with the doctors. I just want to go home. Like
it was really really hard at the start. But at
(05:16):
the like ten week mark, we told my mum and
my dad as well my in laws, and they were
so excited for us, and I think at that point
we were like, yes, lose this attitude. We are so excited.
We are already parents of two. We know how to
do this. We can bring this child up. It is
(05:36):
actually going to be okay. And so that kind of
put a lot of our you know, it was still
a cold to take in. It quashed a lot of
our worries. And then what was so nice was we
told the boys. So we have two boys at that time,
they would have been four and five, so we had
them quite close. Because you had them so close, I
(05:57):
never got to see the oldest really understand that he
was getting a younger brother. So it was just incredible
to be able to tell them and they were like,
what do you mean we got a baby? Like wow,
how did the baby come? And I was like, oh,
you're six, we're not talking about that yet. But that
was really exciting. Like, so, what was so interesting about
(06:19):
this pregnancy was that we were so nervous and scared
about it, but everyone around us was so excited it
also just changed everything. It meant that we stayed in
Stockholm longer, and yeah, it was really really incredible.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, I want to go back a little bit to
the guilt thing because I actually find that really interesting
because I struggled to fall pregnant with my first and
I had a lot of friends who did fall pregnant
and hesitated telling me because they didn't want to make
me feel bad. It's interesting that you said that you
felt guilt. Was there someone in your life who was
(06:53):
really trying and you felt that guilt particularly.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, before we left to go to Sweden, two of
my best friends were both trying and we had had
lots of conversations, the three of us. They were both
trying for their second child, and we'd had a lot
of conversations like where they were like, it's just not working,
We're doing everything, what about this? And I was really
(07:17):
part of those conversations with them, And so when I
found out when it had been a surprise, I did
immediately go, oh my god, it is a really hard feeling.
But the irony actually was both of them were pregnant,
so I told them and they told me, and all
(07:38):
of our kids are actually around two weeks apart, so
it did all work out, but it doesn't for everyone,
and it is really hard. And I think what's really
hard about pregnancy is even I found this with my
first I have always been quite sick in my pregnancies
and I haven't loved it. And you have this like
internal struggle where you're so excited and you know how
(07:59):
lucky you are, but you also know people would want
to be in your place, so you don't want to
complain too much about it. I do think there is
this really interesting pool that we have when it comes
to fertility privilege, because like I do think I am
very fortunate when it comes to like my fertility privilege,
but it doesn't mean like every moment has been really easy.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I think the empathy that you show is really beautiful,
and I think that anyone that is struggling with fertility
and has that empathy, that's kind of what a friendship needs.
I know this isn't really what this is about, but
I'm really fascinated by that because I remember counting the
amount of people that felt pregnant while we were trying,
(08:42):
and it like hurt every time, and it was one
of those things where it was like I'm really happy
for them, but I'm really sad for me. Yeah. So
it's that kind of double edge sold And I'm sure
that you felt the same that You're like, I feel
really happy, but then I'm like this guilt of you know,
my friends who really want that.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
But also I found like with my first, my first
took longer, and I do remember I'd see pregnant woman
walking down the street and I'd be like, oh, I
hate her. Yeah, And so it's one of those things
when you do go you know both sides. You're like,
I know that this person would be happy for me,
but I also would hate me. Like, so it's so conflicated.
(09:21):
It's just part of being women, and like the empathy.
Women do feel like you're right, like I do think
women are just socially can understand these situations probably better
than men, Like how hard it is to try and
how hard it is to want something and not get it,
and so when that comes to you really easily, you
(09:41):
do feel guilt.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Let's move on to being pregnant in Sweden. Now, obviously
you didn't speak the language, you had two small children
who were in daycare school. How did that process work?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, so I was working full time in Sweden. I
was working for Voke Scandinavia. It was all done in English,
so it's a very easy huntry to get around with English.
So I was very lazy learning Swedish. The Swedish system,
it's a social democratic system, so it's incredible. I kick
myself while I'm not still there. It's so incredible. All
(10:16):
of daycare, all of the schooling is paid for. So
I think our BI bills were probably equivalent of about
one hundred and fifty dollars Australian a month a month,
and that's full time sorry for childcare for childcare, yeah wow, yeah,
so I know, it's so silly. Why am I not there? Yeah,
so they're in childcare full time. I was working full time,
(10:37):
so it was all relatively quite easy in that sense that,
you know, I had quite a lot of care and
support around that. The prenatal care was very different in
the sense that in Australia I had gone through the
private system, so I had an obstetrician who then I
saw every week of whatever you know when you do
(10:57):
it every eight weeks. But in Sweden, once again it's
you pay high taxes, but it does mean a lot
of that healthcare is free, so it's really rare to
have private I wouldn't even know how to go about it.
What the system is. It is a midwife program, so
you have a provider that you go to and it's
(11:20):
this same midwife, and if she's away, there's two others
that you work with, so you're always meeting the same
midwife in a location near you. Actually, those locations normally
then have a nurse who then you see afterwards with
your child, so it's quite nice. It's the before and
after care is all done in one space. Then you
do your scans at a hospital where then you see
(11:42):
a doctor at the scans. But what was interesting is
Sweden didn't do the blood test that you can do
in Australia to find out the sexbat Yeah, so I
had found out quite early the sex of my first
two boys, so it wasn't until a scan at halfway
scan that I found out the sex when it came
(12:03):
to August and he was another boy. There were a
few differences, Yeah, I think definitely the Swedish system is
a lot more hands off in the sense that there's
not as many tests. They're just a bit more chill
like just in general the society is a lot more chill.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
So yeah, because I mean it's fairly normal here in
Australia at that sort of ten eleven week mark to
do a nit test. You know, you do the blood
test for the genetic testing and you can find out
the sex. And like you, I was very impatient and
found out straight away. But they don't even offer that.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
No, no, it wasn't even offered.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Did that frustrate you or were you okay with that? Yes?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I was like, what do you mean I have to
wait twenty weeks? How dare you? Yeah? So as a
really impatient person, it did frustrate me. I'm sure if
you looked into it more potentially, but it wasn't even offered. Yeah,
it was just interesting. There was just little things. We
never did the glucose tests, okay, yeah. I think there's
(13:05):
also different diseases in Sweden, so there was different vaccinations
that I had to receive, so there was just some differences.
It's really interesting giving birth in a different place.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I just think it's fascinating to hear about the different
systems and obviously Sweden have an incredible healthcare system and
to have it all that support is amazing. But to
hear those little, those little mayor differences is quite interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, because I think when I went private in Australia,
each time you see your obstitution, you're doing a scan
and you're seeing the baby. I didn't see the baby
as much. I only saw the baby once or twice
on scans, So it was Yeah, it just is more chill.
I think that's the best way to say it.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And what about the actual birthing process. Is there a
bit more of a push first home births or midwa
free support or what is the general consensus of birth
in Sweden?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
It's very much whatever you want. It's not really a
push for anything. Like I said, they're very chill like.
They're so like, oh yeah, if you want to do formula,
do formula, if you don't want to breastfeed, whatever. For me,
I had had an emergency caesar for my first birth,
so I'd then had a planned caesar for my second
because it was within an eighteen month period, and so
(14:26):
with August, they weren't even going to let me try
a vaginal birth, which I was so happy with.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Okay, so you've spoken to your providers and you're locking
in your C section date. When did you do that?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So I think we locked in the date probably at
around the twenty week mark. They're like, okay, we'll put
you in for the ninth of August. And it was
all really planned and really quite simple and easy. I
did have some pretty bad oh by the end. I
was just like so heavy and the pressure. I was
(15:02):
in quite a lot of pain at the end, and
I did. There was a few times where I'm like,
I think I might be going into labor, Like it
really hurts, I can't walk anymore, you know, just that pain,
that heavy pain, And so I'd just turn up at
the hospital and be like I'm in pain and they're like, okay,
come and lie down and we'll test you. So it
was quite good. Every time. They were so sweet. Every
(15:24):
time that would turn up, they'd be like, you're just exhausted,
like you have two kids, in a full time job
and you're carrying a baby, like just go home. But
the system made you never feel like you were overreacting
or they were always just like no, it's always better
to be safe than sorry, which I found, like you
find in Australia as well. It was really lovely care
(15:45):
coming up like I'd have flashbacks and be like, oh,
that was really scary. It's really interesting. I think had
August have been my first, I would have found it
probably hard to want to have another baby.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
You go in on your planned day, you're at your
sort of thirty nine week mark. Tell me about the preparation.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
So I am so ready to have this baby. Oh
my god. Like I was huge and just felt so
heavy and so sore and so bloody tired. So I
was so ready to have this baby. Also, it was summer,
So summer in Sweden is incredible because everyone just shuts down.
So everyone goes on like a five way holiday because
(16:31):
it like is literally twenty two degrees, which is like
a heat wave there, so they're all like, yay, let's
get out there. No one's working. I'd had like four
weeks off where we'd traveled and you know, I'd waddled around,
but I'd had some really nice time with the boys,
who were then on holidays as well. We lived near
our in laws, so the boys were all planned to
go there. I'd bought like a cute little matching set
(16:54):
for the of the hospital, packed my bags. I was
really prepped. My parents were also going to fly from
Australia to come, so once I was out of hospital,
they would be there. So I was feeling like maybe
probably a little bit arrogant, like I was like, I've
got this, this is great. So I went in really calm,
(17:15):
expecting that it would all be fine and that, like
I knew the drill a little bit, you.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Felt prepared and you were prepared.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, tell us.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
What happened when they gave you the spinal tap?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, so look that part I remember with my second
I remember walking in to have a CAESAR and being like,
oh wow, this is a lot clinical than I thought,
Like you're going to labor and you're like cool, I'm
having a baby, and you're in that mindset. And then
I ended up having emergency caesar, which was actually fine
and beautiful and I loved it. But then the second
time around, having a planned CAESAR, I realized that you're
(17:49):
going in for an operation, and I did actually find
that quite nerve wracking. And I do remember like shaking
as you're getting because before I was in labor, so
having a spinal tap and when you're in labor it's
kind of part of it, but to go in cold
and have that in your back, like it is quite
nerve wracking, Like I'm quite scared of needles. I was,
(18:10):
like I was a bit nervous about that.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Is good stuff with you at this point.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
So you wheeled into the room. So your husband comes
with you. He's in his scrubs. You know, all the
doctors speak English. Obviously their first language is Swedish, so
they probably talk Swedish to each other, but everyone can
speak English to me. So I feel completely fine and
I'm at ease beneath it. Us is so lovely. She
explains what she's going to do. She puts a spinal
tap in. She moves me into the room, and then
(18:36):
what they do is to test that the area is
numb to cut, they use ice. So with a C section,
you still can feel the tugging because you are awake.
It's just you don't feel the pain and new that
and I know how it feels. So it's quite a
strange sensation because you are numb, but you still know
that they're there. So they're doing the ice tests and
(19:00):
you can feel one part of you feels the ice
is cold, and then the other part's just kind of
not meant to feel it. She just kept doing it
to me, and I was like, no, I can still
feel it. I can still feel it. So they put
more in, They put more of the anesthetic in, and
this just keeps happening for about maybe forty minutes. At
this point, you're so to have a baby. I'm kind
(19:22):
of also confused because you know that it's not meant
to be cold, but you know that you still can
feel it. So by this point, I also was just
so desperate to have this baby that I was like,
I think it's working. Because they were like, oh, look,
maybe we have to come back and try again if
you don't think it's working. And I was like, no,
(19:45):
I think it's working. And they're like, yeah, we've given
you quite a lot, like it should be working. So
I was like, no, no, I think it's workings, let's go.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
So they believed you. They believe that you still felt
that because I think I've heard stories of people who
were like I can feel pain, like no, no, no,
it's fine. They were reassuring you.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, they were reassuring, and they were like, Okay, we've
put this in, we'll try again. We'll give you more time.
This exchange had gone on four forty minutes and they
were like this, it's been forty minutes now, like we
kind of have to either call it and cry and
come back this afternoon or we give it like five
more minutes. And I was like, no, I think I
can't feel anything, so like, let's go. They obviously start
(20:26):
the operation and a C section takes about eight minutes,
so it's incredibly fast, and it is It's so incredible
because it's like within eight minutes you have this baby.
And so they put up the screen. I'm holding Gustaf's
hand and they're cutting and you can still like feel
a little bit. And then there's just one point where
I will never forget this moment. I just grabbed Gustaff
(20:47):
and I was like, I can feel every like I
can feel everything. Please stop. And at that point they
all start speaking Swedish. They rush, they push good stuff
out of the room, and they go, okay, we need
to put you under. So they put me under general
anesthetic and I'm completely then knocked out.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
So you've felt them cut you open.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, So what I had felt was I think they'd
done one layer, that it had worked. But then it
was like I don't know the medical facts, but there
are a few different layers that they cut through, and
it was maybe the third layer that I could feel,
and at that point I was just I will never
forget the grip on my husband. I was just like
(21:30):
I can feel this, Please help. Yeah, screamed and I
just remember like no, no, no, no, no stop. So
I like, yeah, it was all over for me. They
knocked me out so quickly. I was under general anesthetic.
So during that time they then continued to operate where
I was completely knocked out. August was then born and
he was examined and given to my husband to do
(21:50):
skin on skin, and then I woke up maybe half
an hour later, and I woke up and I was like, oh,
I really needed that sleep, and they're like, you have
a baby. I was like, oh okay, because you're so disorientated.
You know when you wake up from an operation and
you're a bit disorientated. I woke up and I was like, oh, oh,
I have a baby. It was bizarre. It was really bizarre.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Bizar's definitely one would I just want to go back.
So they were very very fast with this. You said
I feel this, and the anetheist comes and just basically
knocks you out. There was no yeah, are you ready
to be knocked out? It was like not, We're putting
you under.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It was a flurry and it was good stuff. You
have to leave. You can't be here for years. We
need to put her under. And you feel like you're
in a medical show where it's that flurry around you.
And it was like, okay, like everyone out, We've got
to put her under. When I woke up, I didn't
kind of realize the extent of what I'd gone through
(22:51):
a little bit. I had August. He was safe, he
was really great baby, he fed really well. So I
don't think it was until like a couple of months
later when things got hard, you know, when you're waking
up at night, like I'd have flashbacks and be like, oh,
that was really scary. It's really interesting. I think had
(23:12):
August have been my first, I would have found it
probably hard to want to have another baby. Maybe. Yeah,
it's one of those if I think about too long,
it was quite scary. Yeah, but in the moment, like
the next day, and because you have a baby, you
kind of just soldier on a bit.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I completely understand that. I'm just thinking about how quickly
that happened and Obviously you're probably not entirely cognizant of
what's going on, But has good staff told you what
he felt when he was basically pushed out of the room. Yeah,
he was like it happened so quickly. He's like, I
just was not allowed to be there. And then he's like,
but it was nice, like I got to have Orgie
(23:52):
and I knew you were safe. Like he knew it
was bad, but no one felt endangered. Yeah, so it
was just more oh my god, like what's happening. It
was also just so quick.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I think, yeah, he probably loved that he got to
have the baby first. But it's funny when you wake
up and you're so drugged. There's video of me and
like what I'm saying, it's like almost comical. It's like
one of those like hilarious comedies where the person wakes
up on painkillers and what I'm saying, it's ridiculou. I'm embarrassed.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Did you wake up and go, am I pregnant? Or
have I had a baby?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Like? I was just like that was the first sleep
of my life, and I was like, it was really
good that it happened like this, Like I just really
needed a sleep and because I was like, you've literally
been out for thirty minutes.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It must have been a really good nap.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
It was a great thirty minute nap, but it was
not ideal what happened?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
No, and then August came and how soon after you
woke up or you able to hold him?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
They put him on my chest pretty soon, And so
that's where there's like video of me and he's on
my chest and I'm like, aren't you cute? Where did
you get this little beanie from? Like that's quite funny
footage because I'm still very like coming to after the
general anesthetic. So he was on my chest straight away.
I could start feeding him straight away. I also knew
the drill that often with cesareans you can't get up
(25:23):
and walk after twenty four hours. I knew that my
recovery would be like that. It was interesting. The next
day the Unethodus came and spoke to me and she said, look,
I honestly did everything right. If I had to do that, Docige,
I would still do it again. And I said, why
do you think this happened to me? And she just said,
I'm quite tall, and she's like, sometimes it's to do
(25:44):
with height, but it had worked the other two times
that I'd had it, So yeah, she was like, I
really don't understand what went wrong, and you know, she
guess she apologized for what happened and tried to talk
me through it. But at the end of the day, like,
I got a healthy baby and I'm healthy, so it
(26:05):
was all fine.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, but I mean you can also acknowledge the fact
that that's quite a kind of crazy. You're in a
different country, you don't speak the language, there's people around you.
All of a sudden, there's a flurry of activity, and
then you wake up and there's a baby. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Oh yeah, it was really crazy, and it's really interesting.
In Sweden, they have this tradition where once you and
they all talk about it, like as soon as you
get pregnant, they're like, oh my god, you get the sandwiches.
You have his baby, and they wheel you back to
your room and they have these like little sandwiches that
everyone gets and they put these little Swedish flags in
the sandwich and they give you like fake champagne, and
(26:44):
so you go and you have your Like it's just
it's this weird tradition. And so I was just like
I have his baby and now I'm having my fake
champagne and my sandwich with a Swedish flag and this
is lovely.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I mean the least they could do is give you
a all that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, I know I needed it. What was interesting with
the recovery though, I do think it did take longer
because they definitely don't give you as hard painkillers as Australia.
It was really hard to get, Like I was like,
I need something stronger than paned all, like this is
really sore. In Australia, they will constant make sure you're
(27:21):
not in pain, especially after a Caesar. But I found
in Sweden I was literally like can I please have more?
Can I please have more? And it was it was
actually a real fight to get anything stronger than a
pan at all. So I don't know why that is,
but that was something.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Because as I understand it, if you have a Caesar
in Australia, they'll give you like an endome or something
for the first day or.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
So or even longer. I think if you're like they
in Australia, they just make sure that you're just not
in pain at all. So I think in Australia you're
on a very much a tight schedule of like ending
panadol where possible, like every four hours, you're taking painkillers
so you're never in pain. In Sweden they didn't even
offer endome. That's my one piece of feedback for the
(28:06):
Swedish medical system. That recovery was really hard. What was
also really interesting about Sweden was they are really into
skin to skin, so they actually don't even give you
a cot in the room. Oh yeah, so you go
back to your room and there's nowhere to put the
baby down, and you don't stay in the hospital as long. Well,
(28:28):
you know, in Australia I stayed in hospital maybe five
nights with the caesar, but in Sweden they kind of
want you to go home as soon as you can. Yeah,
they don't have cots because it's all like the baby
needs to be on your chest basically the whole time.
So I found that's really strange because I was like, God,
I just put him down for one second, but there's
nowhere to put him down to encourage that like connection.
(28:51):
The other thing that was really interesting is that they
don't swaddle, so I had like taken my little swaddles
from Australia. I'd made all my friends like, send me
the materials that you like. I love the little Fraser swaddles,
Jersey ones and so I was like swaddling him and
they're like, what are you doing to your child? And
I was like, oh, the ways you wake up. This
(29:12):
is my plan. It's the more I reflex totally, and
they just did. They were like, oh, this Australian that
wants to put her baby down and swaddle it. There
was just a few cultural differences as well.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
How old was Augie when you came back to Australia.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
So he was one when we moved back, which is
ironic that he's a Swedish citizen what they all are,
but he was actually born in Sweden and he's going
to probably be the worst at Swedish well after me,
after me.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Final question the post care. Did you get like a
nurse coming in after you like you got home.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
It's very similar to Australia. They come I think maybe
two weeks after you come home and just see how
you're going with the baby at home in your own environment.
Then at the six week mark you see your midwife
and then you continue with the nurse with the baby.
So if you have any questions and it was quite
(30:13):
regular checkups with the nurse and you know, she would
weigh the baby very very similar, very similar process to
a earlier But it was great because you kind of
had this one nurse that you were assigned to, and
so if we had any problems with Orgie's health or
there was a question we had, we would just call her.
(30:33):
So that was really really great. And then in terms
of me, it was the same midwife afterwards. I think
that care probably stopped after about maybe ten weeks, but
it was still good that there was one person you
could go to.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for sharing
your story and it's yeah, fascinating to hear that cultural difference,
but terrifying as well with that season.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
So what does a team do when a spinal tap
doesn't work? To get the answer, we asked our favorite
obstetrician and gynecologist, doctor Bronwin Devine.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Look, you can have an experience anitus who's done you know,
thousands of these, and just some women they've had their
spinal anesthetic can still feel pain. And people when they've
had a spinal or an epidural, those regional blocks are
designed to take away the sensation of pain and temperature
because those nerve fibers run together. The way that the
(31:36):
block works is to block the pain and temperature fibers,
which is why they always test with ice. They say,
this feel cold here. It's definitely cold up here on
your face, but down here on your tummy and below
where your legs are. No, it doesn't feel cold. Yep, no,
it doesn't feel cold. So that's why they're testing it
with temperature, because pain and temperature are affected the same
way by those regional blocks. But if someone can feel
(31:58):
pain during surgery, it's absolutely traumatic for that person. It
can result in terrible PTSD and you know, flashbacks and
things like that. It's just not okay. It's one of
those things that just can't happen, you know. You hear
these stories of people waking up under anesthesia when they're
having other operations and how traumatic that is. You know,
(32:18):
it's one of the absolute no, no, no, this cannot
happen when people are having surgery. They cannot have the
feeling of pain when they're having surgery performed on them.
So we try very hard to do our caesarean sections
under regional block because it is much much safer for
the mum doing a caesar under general anesthetic. A pregnant woman,
(32:40):
particularly a heavily pregnant woman, will have quite a lot
of airway compromise just by dint of being pregnant and
the extra fluid in her body, and you know the
fact that she's got a lot of pressure in her
abdomen and lots of things like that. So putting an
endotra keel to you, which is what you have to
have when you have a general anesthetic into someone when
(33:01):
they have those extra complications of being pregnant, can be
quite risky for the pregnant woman, and so it's become
very much the norm to have caesarean sections performed under
regional block, and an epidural takes quite a long time
to go in. So that's why when people are having
caesars that are either done electively or they've got to
be done as an emergency and there is no epidural present,
(33:23):
an esos will try and put a spinal in because
it can work very quickly and you can get the
spinal in quickly. It's a lot safer for the mum.
But if a spinal is not effective, then we really
have to abandon it and go to a general anesthetic.
And when that's the case, you know, it's quite a
high risk situation. The anthotist is always going to be
quite tense about it. They need to get the partner
(33:46):
out of the room because it's absolutely horrible seeing your
loved one sort of become paralyzed and go off to
sleep and be unresponsive. So they usually rush the partner
out of the room and that's quite traumatic for them
because they had every intention they were going to be
there to see their baby being born. And then you know,
because you know the surgery is already started, the anesis
is under a lot of pressure to get that person
(34:07):
to sleep very very quickly, but they have to be
very careful. They need to do some preoxygenation and make
sure that you know, they've got absolutely perfect access to
the airway and things like that. So it's it really
is quite a high stress, tense situation.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
And what about navigating different cultural requests in your practice.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Australia's a very multicultural society, so we care for lots
and lots of people from many different cultures and often
there are specific requests that people have because they're used
to a different procedure or a different process. I've certainly
looked after Swedish women in pregnancy, and I have a
German couple who come to see me at the moment,
and they've had their first child in Germany, and so
(34:48):
they'll often come and say to me when we're in Germany,
they did this test. Do you offer that test? And
you know when do I do this particular test, and
sometimes bring the anti natal card from Germany and do
a comparison to make sure that you know the things
that they're used to are being offered here. I think
in the Nordic countries, where the public health system is
(35:09):
so well supported, it doesn't really make a lot of
sense to do anything but go through the public system.
But I guess also because a lot of healthcare is
state funded, you know, they may not offer quite as
many of them very expensive tests that we sort of
take for granted here, like the NIPT. Certainly you do find,
you know, say people come from a culture that's a
(35:30):
resource for country, or a non Western culture where things
are very very different. There can be specific requests of
things that you haven't really encountered before, and so we
try as absolutely hard as we can to help people
achieve the birth that they want and do that in
the most culturally sensitive way. So if we need to
(35:52):
make policy adjustments and procedure adjustments within the realms of safety,
we'll do that.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Kasanu lukit
with expert input from doctor Bronwin Divine and while we
have you here, we're on the hunt to share powerful
underrepresented stories from people of all cultures, backgrounds, and abilities,
so please get in touch. This episode was produced by
Tina Mattalov and myself kis Anu luk At, with audio
(36:21):
production by Leah Porges.
You're listening to another MIA podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges the
traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is
recorded on. We pay our respects to elders past, present
and emerging, and feel privileged to continue the sharing of
birth stories and knowledge that has been a fundamental part
of indigenous culture.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I'm Cassania Lukit and this is diary of a birth.
Birth is different all over the world, both culturally and financially.
And while I'm fairly familiar with the way the system
works here in Australia, what does pregnancy and birth look
like in a socially democratic society like Sweden. Today's mum
(01:06):
had her first two children here in Australia and looking
for adventure, her and her Swedish partner flew across the
world and relocated to Sweden. Then she unexpectedly felt pregnant.
Navigating pregnancy halfway around the world wasn't always easy, especially
with a very unexpected complication during birth.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I just grabbed Gustaf and I was like, I can
feel everything. Please stop.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
So let's meet today's mum.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hi. I'm Eliza and this is the diary of my
birth with August.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
So you were a part of the Mom and Maya family.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So I'm the head of content at MoMA Mia and
it's so funny. This is actually my first podcast. I'm
normally behind the scenes, but I love this show and
I think every woman loves to tell their birth story,
so here I am.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
As we know, every birth story is very different, and
I think what makes yours really interesting is that you
actually gave birth with your third child in Sweden.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, and that was nothing that I had really expected.
So I had two kids and my husband and I
packed up our lives and we moved to Sweden during COVID.
My husband Swedish, so it wasn't a random decision or
a random country. But we hopped on the plane. There
was only ten other people on the plane. It was
(02:28):
due at the height of the pandemic. And we went
just for a year for an adventure, and we arrived
and we ended up loving it, and we both ended
up getting jobs that we didn't expect. It just became great.
Everything seemed to really be working for us there. A
couple of months in, it would have been like six
(02:49):
months in. At this time, it's like November in Sweden,
so it's starting to snow, it's starting to get really cold.
We just had such a great summer and I started
feeling really sick, and one day I was like, oh
my god, I'm pregnant. I was actually in a cubicle
at work, like I'd gone to work early because I
(03:11):
was like, what's going on with me? I just felt,
you know, you just know. And I did this pregnancy
test and look, it wasn't something we had necessarily wanted.
It was definitely a surprise and it was really hard.
Like I saw that test and I was across the
other side of the world on what we thought was
(03:31):
this adventure year. And we had also had discussions before
where we were like, oh, maybe our family's done. So
you know, this happened, and you know, you're thirty four
and you're like, of course, like we should do this,
you know, but you still felt so much guilt. I
felt so much guilt that I could fall pregnant when
(03:51):
a lot of my friends in Australia were trying to
fall pregnant with their first or second baby, and here
I was with a surprise baby. And so there was
a lot like it was a very hard pregnancy. Those
first couple of weeks of Oh my gosh, I'm across
the other side of the world. I'm away from my
close family. I still have my husband's family here, of course,
(04:11):
but none of my best friends are here. I've fallen
pregnant when a lot of other people would love to
be pregnant. I don't even know if I want this.
So it was there's a lot to take in. And
then coupled with that, I'm heading into my first winter
in Stockholm. So the temperature is minus twenty one degrees,
(04:31):
you can't go outside. I had never even experienced snow.
I'd never seen snow before. So the darkness, the coldness,
coupled with this strange like I don't know what's next
for my life, and then extreme morning sickness. So I
was so sick to the point I ended up in
hospital quite a few times actually, and there was one
(04:55):
incident in hospital where my throat was so sore. I
ended up having strep throat and I couldn't communicate with
the doctors. And because it was during COVID, you were
only allowed to go to the hospital, so my husband
was at home looking after them. I can barely communicate
with the doctors. I just want to go home. Like
it was really really hard at the start. But at
(05:16):
the like ten week mark, we told my mum and
my dad as well my in laws, and they were
so excited for us, and I think at that point
we were like, yes, lose this attitude. We are so excited.
We are already parents of two. We know how to
do this. We can bring this child up. It is
(05:36):
actually going to be okay. And so that kind of
put a lot of our you know, it was still
a cold to take in. It quashed a lot of
our worries. And then what was so nice was we
told the boys. So we have two boys at that time,
they would have been four and five, so we had
them quite close. Because you had them so close, I
(05:57):
never got to see the oldest really understand that he
was getting a younger brother. So it was just incredible
to be able to tell them and they were like,
what do you mean we got a baby? Like wow,
how did the baby come? And I was like, oh,
you're six, we're not talking about that yet. But that
was really exciting. Like, so, what was so interesting about
(06:19):
this pregnancy was that we were so nervous and scared
about it, but everyone around us was so excited it
also just changed everything. It meant that we stayed in
Stockholm longer, and yeah, it was really really incredible.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, I want to go back a little bit to
the guilt thing because I actually find that really interesting
because I struggled to fall pregnant with my first and
I had a lot of friends who did fall pregnant
and hesitated telling me because they didn't want to make
me feel bad. It's interesting that you said that you
felt guilt. Was there someone in your life who was
(06:53):
really trying and you felt that guilt particularly.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, before we left to go to Sweden, two of
my best friends were both trying and we had had
lots of conversations, the three of us. They were both
trying for their second child, and we'd had a lot
of conversations like where they were like, it's just not working,
We're doing everything, what about this? And I was really
(07:17):
part of those conversations with them, And so when I
found out when it had been a surprise, I did
immediately go, oh my god, it is a really hard feeling.
But the irony actually was both of them were pregnant,
so I told them and they told me, and all
(07:38):
of our kids are actually around two weeks apart, so
it did all work out, but it doesn't for everyone,
and it is really hard. And I think what's really
hard about pregnancy is even I found this with my
first I have always been quite sick in my pregnancies
and I haven't loved it. And you have this like
internal struggle where you're so excited and you know how
(07:59):
lucky you are, but you also know people would want
to be in your place, so you don't want to
complain too much about it. I do think there is
this really interesting pool that we have when it comes
to fertility privilege, because like I do think I am
very fortunate when it comes to like my fertility privilege,
but it doesn't mean like every moment has been really easy.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I think the empathy that you show is really beautiful,
and I think that anyone that is struggling with fertility
and has that empathy, that's kind of what a friendship needs.
I know this isn't really what this is about, but
I'm really fascinated by that because I remember counting the
amount of people that felt pregnant while we were trying,
(08:42):
and it like hurt every time, and it was one
of those things where it was like I'm really happy
for them, but I'm really sad for me. Yeah. So
it's that kind of double edge sold And I'm sure
that you felt the same that You're like, I feel
really happy, but then I'm like this guilt of you know,
my friends who really want that.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
But also I found like with my first, my first
took longer, and I do remember I'd see pregnant woman
walking down the street and I'd be like, oh, I
hate her. Yeah, And so it's one of those things
when you do go you know both sides. You're like,
I know that this person would be happy for me,
but I also would hate me. Like, so it's so conflicated.
(09:21):
It's just part of being women, and like the empathy.
Women do feel like you're right, like I do think
women are just socially can understand these situations probably better
than men, Like how hard it is to try and
how hard it is to want something and not get it,
and so when that comes to you really easily, you
(09:41):
do feel guilt.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Let's move on to being pregnant in Sweden. Now, obviously
you didn't speak the language, you had two small children
who were in daycare school. How did that process work?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, so I was working full time in Sweden. I
was working for Voke Scandinavia. It was all done in English,
so it's a very easy huntry to get around with English.
So I was very lazy learning Swedish. The Swedish system,
it's a social democratic system, so it's incredible. I kick
myself while I'm not still there. It's so incredible. All
(10:16):
of daycare, all of the schooling is paid for. So
I think our BI bills were probably equivalent of about
one hundred and fifty dollars Australian a month a month,
and that's full time sorry for childcare for childcare, yeah wow, yeah,
so I know, it's so silly. Why am I not there? Yeah,
so they're in childcare full time. I was working full time,
(10:37):
so it was all relatively quite easy in that sense that,
you know, I had quite a lot of care and
support around that. The prenatal care was very different in
the sense that in Australia I had gone through the
private system, so I had an obstetrician who then I
saw every week of whatever you know when you do
(10:57):
it every eight weeks. But in Sweden, once again it's
you pay high taxes, but it does mean a lot
of that healthcare is free, so it's really rare to
have private I wouldn't even know how to go about it.
What the system is. It is a midwife program, so
you have a provider that you go to and it's
(11:20):
this same midwife, and if she's away, there's two others
that you work with, so you're always meeting the same
midwife in a location near you. Actually, those locations normally
then have a nurse who then you see afterwards with
your child, so it's quite nice. It's the before and
after care is all done in one space. Then you
do your scans at a hospital where then you see
(11:42):
a doctor at the scans. But what was interesting is
Sweden didn't do the blood test that you can do
in Australia to find out the sexbat Yeah, so I
had found out quite early the sex of my first
two boys, so it wasn't until a scan at halfway
scan that I found out the sex when it came
(12:03):
to August and he was another boy. There were a
few differences, Yeah, I think definitely the Swedish system is
a lot more hands off in the sense that there's
not as many tests. They're just a bit more chill
like just in general the society is a lot more chill.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
So yeah, because I mean it's fairly normal here in
Australia at that sort of ten eleven week mark to
do a nit test. You know, you do the blood
test for the genetic testing and you can find out
the sex. And like you, I was very impatient and
found out straight away. But they don't even offer that.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
No, no, it wasn't even offered.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Did that frustrate you or were you okay with that? Yes?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I was like, what do you mean I have to
wait twenty weeks? How dare you? Yeah? So as a
really impatient person, it did frustrate me. I'm sure if
you looked into it more potentially, but it wasn't even offered. Yeah,
it was just interesting. There was just little things. We
never did the glucose tests, okay, yeah. I think there's
(13:05):
also different diseases in Sweden, so there was different vaccinations
that I had to receive, so there was just some differences.
It's really interesting giving birth in a different place.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
I just think it's fascinating to hear about the different
systems and obviously Sweden have an incredible healthcare system and
to have it all that support is amazing. But to
hear those little, those little mayor differences is quite interesting.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Yeah, because I think when I went private in Australia,
each time you see your obstitution, you're doing a scan
and you're seeing the baby. I didn't see the baby
as much. I only saw the baby once or twice
on scans, So it was Yeah, it just is more chill.
I think that's the best way to say it.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And what about the actual birthing process. Is there a
bit more of a push first home births or midwa
free support or what is the general consensus of birth
in Sweden?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
It's very much whatever you want. It's not really a
push for anything. Like I said, they're very chill like.
They're so like, oh yeah, if you want to do formula,
do formula, if you don't want to breastfeed, whatever. For me,
I had had an emergency caesar for my first birth,
so I'd then had a planned caesar for my second
because it was within an eighteen month period, and so
(14:26):
with August, they weren't even going to let me try
a vaginal birth, which I was so happy with.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Okay, so you've spoken to your providers and you're locking
in your C section date. When did you do that?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So I think we locked in the date probably at
around the twenty week mark. They're like, okay, we'll put
you in for the ninth of August. And it was
all really planned and really quite simple and easy. I
did have some pretty bad oh by the end. I
was just like so heavy and the pressure. I was
(15:02):
in quite a lot of pain at the end, and
I did. There was a few times where I'm like,
I think I might be going into labor, Like it
really hurts, I can't walk anymore, you know, just that pain,
that heavy pain, And so I'd just turn up at
the hospital and be like I'm in pain and they're like, okay,
come and lie down and we'll test you. So it
was quite good. Every time. They were so sweet. Every
(15:24):
time that would turn up, they'd be like, you're just exhausted,
like you have two kids, in a full time job
and you're carrying a baby, like just go home. But
the system made you never feel like you were overreacting
or they were always just like no, it's always better
to be safe than sorry, which I found, like you
find in Australia as well. It was really lovely care
(15:45):
coming up like I'd have flashbacks and be like, oh,
that was really scary. It's really interesting. I think had
August have been my first, I would have found it
probably hard to want to have another baby.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
You go in on your planned day, you're at your
sort of thirty nine week mark. Tell me about the preparation.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
So I am so ready to have this baby. Oh
my god. Like I was huge and just felt so
heavy and so sore and so bloody tired. So I
was so ready to have this baby. Also, it was summer,
So summer in Sweden is incredible because everyone just shuts down.
So everyone goes on like a five way holiday because
(16:31):
it like is literally twenty two degrees, which is like
a heat wave there, so they're all like, yay, let's
get out there. No one's working. I'd had like four
weeks off where we'd traveled and you know, I'd waddled around,
but I'd had some really nice time with the boys,
who were then on holidays as well. We lived near
our in laws, so the boys were all planned to
go there. I'd bought like a cute little matching set
(16:54):
for the of the hospital, packed my bags. I was
really prepped. My parents were also going to fly from
Australia to come, so once I was out of hospital,
they would be there. So I was feeling like maybe
probably a little bit arrogant, like I was like, I've
got this, this is great. So I went in really calm,
(17:15):
expecting that it would all be fine and that, like
I knew the drill a little bit, you.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Felt prepared and you were prepared.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, tell us.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
What happened when they gave you the spinal tap?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, so look that part I remember with my second
I remember walking in to have a CAESAR and being like,
oh wow, this is a lot clinical than I thought,
Like you're going to labor and you're like cool, I'm
having a baby, and you're in that mindset. And then
I ended up having emergency caesar, which was actually fine
and beautiful and I loved it. But then the second
time around, having a planned CAESAR, I realized that you're
(17:49):
going in for an operation, and I did actually find
that quite nerve wracking. And I do remember like shaking
as you're getting because before I was in labor, so
having a spinal tap and when you're in labor it's
kind of part of it, but to go in cold
and have that in your back, like it is quite
nerve wracking, Like I'm quite scared of needles. I was,
(18:10):
like I was a bit nervous about that.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Is good stuff with you at this point.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
So you wheeled into the room. So your husband comes
with you. He's in his scrubs. You know, all the
doctors speak English. Obviously their first language is Swedish, so
they probably talk Swedish to each other, but everyone can
speak English to me. So I feel completely fine and
I'm at ease beneath it. Us is so lovely. She
explains what she's going to do. She puts a spinal
tap in. She moves me into the room, and then
(18:36):
what they do is to test that the area is
numb to cut, they use ice. So with a C section,
you still can feel the tugging because you are awake.
It's just you don't feel the pain and new that
and I know how it feels. So it's quite a
strange sensation because you are numb, but you still know
that they're there. So they're doing the ice tests and
(19:00):
you can feel one part of you feels the ice
is cold, and then the other part's just kind of
not meant to feel it. She just kept doing it
to me, and I was like, no, I can still
feel it. I can still feel it. So they put
more in, They put more of the anesthetic in, and
this just keeps happening for about maybe forty minutes. At
this point, you're so to have a baby. I'm kind
(19:22):
of also confused because you know that it's not meant
to be cold, but you know that you still can
feel it. So by this point, I also was just
so desperate to have this baby that I was like,
I think it's working. Because they were like, oh, look,
maybe we have to come back and try again if
you don't think it's working. And I was like, no,
(19:45):
I think it's working. And they're like, yeah, we've given
you quite a lot, like it should be working. So
I was like, no, no, I think it's workings, let's go.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
So they believed you. They believe that you still felt
that because I think I've heard stories of people who
were like I can feel pain, like no, no, no,
it's fine. They were reassuring you.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, they were reassuring, and they were like, Okay, we've
put this in, we'll try again. We'll give you more time.
This exchange had gone on four forty minutes and they
were like this, it's been forty minutes now, like we
kind of have to either call it and cry and
come back this afternoon or we give it like five
more minutes. And I was like, no, I think I
can't feel anything, so like, let's go. They obviously start
(20:26):
the operation and a C section takes about eight minutes,
so it's incredibly fast, and it is It's so incredible
because it's like within eight minutes you have this baby.
And so they put up the screen. I'm holding Gustaf's
hand and they're cutting and you can still like feel
a little bit. And then there's just one point where
I will never forget this moment. I just grabbed Gustaff
(20:47):
and I was like, I can feel every like I
can feel everything. Please stop. And at that point they
all start speaking Swedish. They rush, they push good stuff
out of the room, and they go, okay, we need
to put you under. So they put me under general
anesthetic and I'm completely then knocked out.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
So you've felt them cut you open.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Yeah, So what I had felt was I think they'd
done one layer, that it had worked. But then it
was like I don't know the medical facts, but there
are a few different layers that they cut through, and
it was maybe the third layer that I could feel,
and at that point I was just I will never
forget the grip on my husband. I was just like
(21:30):
I can feel this, Please help. Yeah, screamed and I
just remember like no, no, no, no, no stop. So
I like, yeah, it was all over for me. They
knocked me out so quickly. I was under general anesthetic.
So during that time they then continued to operate where
I was completely knocked out. August was then born and
he was examined and given to my husband to do
(21:50):
skin on skin, and then I woke up maybe half
an hour later, and I woke up and I was like, oh,
I really needed that sleep, and they're like, you have
a baby. I was like, oh okay, because you're so disorientated.
You know when you wake up from an operation and
you're a bit disorientated. I woke up and I was like, oh, oh,
I have a baby. It was bizarre. It was really bizarre.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Bizar's definitely one would I just want to go back.
So they were very very fast with this. You said
I feel this, and the anetheist comes and just basically
knocks you out. There was no yeah, are you ready
to be knocked out? It was like not, We're putting
you under.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It was a flurry and it was good stuff. You
have to leave. You can't be here for years. We
need to put her under. And you feel like you're
in a medical show where it's that flurry around you.
And it was like, okay, like everyone out, We've got
to put her under. When I woke up, I didn't
kind of realize the extent of what I'd gone through
(22:51):
a little bit. I had August. He was safe, he
was really great baby, he fed really well. So I
don't think it was until like a couple of months
later when things got hard, you know, when you're waking
up at night, like I'd have flashbacks and be like, oh,
that was really scary. It's really interesting. I think had
(23:12):
August have been my first, I would have found it
probably hard to want to have another baby. Maybe. Yeah,
it's one of those if I think about too long,
it was quite scary. Yeah, but in the moment, like
the next day, and because you have a baby, you
kind of just soldier on a bit.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
I completely understand that. I'm just thinking about how quickly
that happened and Obviously you're probably not entirely cognizant of
what's going on, But has good staff told you what
he felt when he was basically pushed out of the room. Yeah,
he was like it happened so quickly. He's like, I
just was not allowed to be there. And then he's like,
but it was nice, like I got to have Orgie
(23:52):
and I knew you were safe. Like he knew it
was bad, but no one felt endangered. Yeah, so it
was just more oh my god, like what's happening. It
was also just so quick.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I think, yeah, he probably loved that he got to
have the baby first. But it's funny when you wake
up and you're so drugged. There's video of me and
like what I'm saying, it's like almost comical. It's like
one of those like hilarious comedies where the person wakes
up on painkillers and what I'm saying, it's ridiculou. I'm embarrassed.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Did you wake up and go, am I pregnant? Or
have I had a baby?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Like? I was just like that was the first sleep
of my life, and I was like, it was really
good that it happened like this, Like I just really
needed a sleep and because I was like, you've literally
been out for thirty minutes.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It must have been a really good nap.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
It was a great thirty minute nap, but it was
not ideal what happened?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
No, and then August came and how soon after you
woke up or you able to hold him?
Speaker 2 (25:02):
They put him on my chest pretty soon, And so
that's where there's like video of me and he's on
my chest and I'm like, aren't you cute? Where did
you get this little beanie from? Like that's quite funny
footage because I'm still very like coming to after the
general anesthetic. So he was on my chest straight away.
I could start feeding him straight away. I also knew
the drill that often with cesareans you can't get up
(25:23):
and walk after twenty four hours. I knew that my
recovery would be like that. It was interesting. The next
day the Unethodus came and spoke to me and she said, look,
I honestly did everything right. If I had to do that, Docige,
I would still do it again. And I said, why
do you think this happened to me? And she just said,
I'm quite tall, and she's like, sometimes it's to do
(25:44):
with height, but it had worked the other two times
that I'd had it, So yeah, she was like, I
really don't understand what went wrong, and you know, she
guess she apologized for what happened and tried to talk
me through it. But at the end of the day, like,
I got a healthy baby and I'm healthy, so it
(26:05):
was all fine.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, but I mean you can also acknowledge the fact
that that's quite a kind of crazy. You're in a
different country, you don't speak the language, there's people around you.
All of a sudden, there's a flurry of activity, and
then you wake up and there's a baby. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Oh yeah, it was really crazy, and it's really interesting.
In Sweden, they have this tradition where once you and
they all talk about it, like as soon as you
get pregnant, they're like, oh my god, you get the sandwiches.
You have his baby, and they wheel you back to
your room and they have these like little sandwiches that
everyone gets and they put these little Swedish flags in
the sandwich and they give you like fake champagne, and
(26:44):
so you go and you have your Like it's just
it's this weird tradition. And so I was just like
I have his baby and now I'm having my fake
champagne and my sandwich with a Swedish flag and this
is lovely.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I mean the least they could do is give you
a all that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, I know I needed it. What was interesting with
the recovery though, I do think it did take longer
because they definitely don't give you as hard painkillers as Australia.
It was really hard to get, Like I was like,
I need something stronger than paned all, like this is
really sore. In Australia, they will constant make sure you're
(27:21):
not in pain, especially after a Caesar. But I found
in Sweden I was literally like can I please have more?
Can I please have more? And it was it was
actually a real fight to get anything stronger than a
pan at all. So I don't know why that is,
but that was something.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Because as I understand it, if you have a Caesar
in Australia, they'll give you like an endome or something
for the first day or.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
So or even longer. I think if you're like they
in Australia, they just make sure that you're just not
in pain at all. So I think in Australia you're
on a very much a tight schedule of like ending
panadol where possible, like every four hours, you're taking painkillers
so you're never in pain. In Sweden they didn't even
offer endome. That's my one piece of feedback for the
(28:06):
Swedish medical system. That recovery was really hard. What was
also really interesting about Sweden was they are really into
skin to skin, so they actually don't even give you
a cot in the room. Oh yeah, so you go
back to your room and there's nowhere to put the
baby down, and you don't stay in the hospital as long. Well,
(28:28):
you know, in Australia I stayed in hospital maybe five
nights with the caesar, but in Sweden they kind of
want you to go home as soon as you can. Yeah,
they don't have cots because it's all like the baby
needs to be on your chest basically the whole time.
So I found that's really strange because I was like, God,
I just put him down for one second, but there's
nowhere to put him down to encourage that like connection.
(28:51):
The other thing that was really interesting is that they
don't swaddle, so I had like taken my little swaddles
from Australia. I'd made all my friends like, send me
the materials that you like. I love the little Fraser swaddles,
Jersey ones and so I was like swaddling him and
they're like, what are you doing to your child? And
I was like, oh, the ways you wake up. This
(29:12):
is my plan. It's the more I reflex totally, and
they just did. They were like, oh, this Australian that
wants to put her baby down and swaddle it. There
was just a few cultural differences as well.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
How old was Augie when you came back to Australia.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
So he was one when we moved back, which is
ironic that he's a Swedish citizen what they all are,
but he was actually born in Sweden and he's going
to probably be the worst at Swedish well after me,
after me.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Final question the post care. Did you get like a
nurse coming in after you like you got home.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
It's very similar to Australia. They come I think maybe
two weeks after you come home and just see how
you're going with the baby at home in your own environment.
Then at the six week mark you see your midwife
and then you continue with the nurse with the baby.
So if you have any questions and it was quite
(30:13):
regular checkups with the nurse and you know, she would
weigh the baby very very similar, very similar process to
a earlier But it was great because you kind of
had this one nurse that you were assigned to, and
so if we had any problems with Orgie's health or
there was a question we had, we would just call her.
(30:33):
So that was really really great. And then in terms
of me, it was the same midwife afterwards. I think
that care probably stopped after about maybe ten weeks, but
it was still good that there was one person you
could go to.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for sharing
your story and it's yeah, fascinating to hear that cultural difference,
but terrifying as well with that season.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
So what does a team do when a spinal tap
doesn't work? To get the answer, we asked our favorite
obstetrician and gynecologist, doctor Bronwin Devine.
Speaker 3 (31:16):
Look, you can have an experience anitus who's done you know,
thousands of these, and just some women they've had their
spinal anesthetic can still feel pain. And people when they've
had a spinal or an epidural, those regional blocks are
designed to take away the sensation of pain and temperature
because those nerve fibers run together. The way that the
(31:36):
block works is to block the pain and temperature fibers,
which is why they always test with ice. They say,
this feel cold here. It's definitely cold up here on
your face, but down here on your tummy and below
where your legs are. No, it doesn't feel cold. Yep, no,
it doesn't feel cold. So that's why they're testing it
with temperature, because pain and temperature are affected the same
way by those regional blocks. But if someone can feel
(31:58):
pain during surgery, it's absolutely traumatic for that person. It
can result in terrible PTSD and you know, flashbacks and
things like that. It's just not okay. It's one of
those things that just can't happen, you know. You hear
these stories of people waking up under anesthesia when they're
having other operations and how traumatic that is. You know,
(32:18):
it's one of the absolute no, no, no, this cannot
happen when people are having surgery. They cannot have the
feeling of pain when they're having surgery performed on them.
So we try very hard to do our caesarean sections
under regional block because it is much much safer for
the mum doing a caesar under general anesthetic. A pregnant woman,
(32:40):
particularly a heavily pregnant woman, will have quite a lot
of airway compromise just by dint of being pregnant and
the extra fluid in her body, and you know the
fact that she's got a lot of pressure in her
abdomen and lots of things like that. So putting an
endotra keel to you, which is what you have to
have when you have a general anesthetic into someone when
(33:01):
they have those extra complications of being pregnant, can be
quite risky for the pregnant woman, and so it's become
very much the norm to have caesarean sections performed under
regional block, and an epidural takes quite a long time
to go in. So that's why when people are having
caesars that are either done electively or they've got to
be done as an emergency and there is no epidural present,
(33:23):
an esos will try and put a spinal in because
it can work very quickly and you can get the
spinal in quickly. It's a lot safer for the mum.
But if a spinal is not effective, then we really
have to abandon it and go to a general anesthetic.
And when that's the case, you know, it's quite a
high risk situation. The anthotist is always going to be
quite tense about it. They need to get the partner
(33:46):
out of the room because it's absolutely horrible seeing your
loved one sort of become paralyzed and go off to
sleep and be unresponsive. So they usually rush the partner
out of the room and that's quite traumatic for them
because they had every intention they were going to be
there to see their baby being born. And then you know,
because you know the surgery is already started, the anesis
is under a lot of pressure to get that person
(34:07):
to sleep very very quickly, but they have to be
very careful. They need to do some preoxygenation and make
sure that you know, they've got absolutely perfect access to
the airway and things like that. So it's it really
is quite a high stress, tense situation.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
And what about navigating different cultural requests in your practice.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Australia's a very multicultural society, so we care for lots
and lots of people from many different cultures and often
there are specific requests that people have because they're used
to a different procedure or a different process. I've certainly
looked after Swedish women in pregnancy, and I have a
German couple who come to see me at the moment,
and they've had their first child in Germany, and so
(34:48):
they'll often come and say to me when we're in Germany,
they did this test. Do you offer that test? And
you know when do I do this particular test, and
sometimes bring the anti natal card from Germany and do
a comparison to make sure that you know the things
that they're used to are being offered here. I think
in the Nordic countries, where the public health system is
(35:09):
so well supported, it doesn't really make a lot of
sense to do anything but go through the public system.
But I guess also because a lot of healthcare is
state funded, you know, they may not offer quite as
many of them very expensive tests that we sort of
take for granted here, like the NIPT. Certainly you do find,
you know, say people come from a culture that's a
(35:30):
resource for country, or a non Western culture where things
are very very different. There can be specific requests of
things that you haven't really encountered before, and so we
try as absolutely hard as we can to help people
achieve the birth that they want and do that in
the most culturally sensitive way. So if we need to
(35:52):
make policy adjustments and procedure adjustments within the realms of safety,
we'll do that.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Diary of a Birth was hosted by me Kasanu lukit
with expert input from doctor Bronwin Divine and while we
have you here, we're on the hunt to share powerful
underrepresented stories from people of all cultures, backgrounds, and abilities,
so please get in touch. This episode was produced by
Tina Mattalov and myself kis Anu luk At, with audio
(36:21):
production by Leah Porges.
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