04 Jun 2025 - Includes a tribute to Wendy McDougall - Focal Point on Vison Australia Radio

Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:14):
Good evening and welcome to Focal Point here on Vista Radio.
Radio 1190 7 a.m. and Adelaide online at VA radio,
VA Radio Digital in Adelaide and Darwin through the Community
Radio Plus app, look for Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide and
your favorite podcast service. Peter Greco on behalf of Vanderperre
saying great to be here. Well, good to be here.

(00:36):
Thank you for your company. Now, you may have heard
over the last few days that sadly last week we
lost Wendy McDougall, long time producer for the program and uh,
part of the intro and outro was to send Wendy
a cheerio. Sadly, we don't do that anymore, but we
have got a little tribute to Wendy, which we'll tell
you about in just a second. In the meantime, coming up,

(00:59):
we'll speak to Lindy Oliver from deafblind Western Australia. They've
got a big celebration for Deafblind Awareness Week and Helen
Keller Day. Lindy will invite you to that. Will they
catch up with Mia Gardner from Crime Stoppers Victoria? Mia's
topic is gaming. Really interesting. Could be you could be
your children or grandchildren that could be impacted. We'll find

(01:21):
out from Mia then speak to Andrew, arch and Sarah Pulis
from Intopia. Find out about some of the great work
they're doing making the world more accessible. One step at
a time. And then we'll do the audio described show
of the week and birthdays. And then I'll pay a
little tribute to Wendy, tell you a little bit about
Wendy's contribution in particular to this program. And then we've

(01:44):
got a great interview that Phil and I did with
Wendy back in 2014, uh, 50 years after the Beatles
came to town, we chatted to Wendy about Wendy being
there as a very young teenager, and then some great
audio work by Barry Chapman will take us out. If
you listen through 1190 7 a.m. in Adelaide. It had
a clock for your listening pleasure. Listen, Sam here with

(02:06):
Studio one. In fact, they're here right now to tell
us what's on Studio one.

S2 (02:12):
How many times have you been told you don't look blind?

S3 (02:15):
Matthew shares a rather worrying story about how that simple
statement can escalate.

S2 (02:20):
Join us at 8:00 for studio one.

S1 (02:23):
Well, a really important week coming up towards the end
of June. It's the anniversary of the birth of Helen Keller,
and Deaf Blind was doing some fantastic things. And Linda
Oliver is going to invite you to them. Lovely to
meet you. Thank you for your time.

S4 (02:37):
Oh, lovely to meet you too, Peter, and really happy
to be here to, you know, sharing our celebrations for
our Deaf Blind Awareness Week 2025.

S1 (02:45):
Have you been doing some amazing things over a number
of years at Deaf Blind? Why haven't you?

S4 (02:49):
I've been working as a communication guide with Deaf West
Australians for all over 14 years now, about 14.5 years.
So yeah, we've done some pretty wonderful work together. We
really have. It's been just amazing to be a part
of such an amazing community.

S1 (03:06):
And as I mentioned at the start, you pick a
great week to kind of recognize and celebrate this, don't you?

S4 (03:12):
We do. So do you want me to tell you
a bit about Deafblind Awareness Week?

S1 (03:16):
Yes, please.

S4 (03:17):
Okay. So, uh, well, Deafblind West Australians have a really
special and exciting event coming up to celebrate Deafblind Awareness Week.
So each year, Deafblind Awareness Week is celebrated internationally during
the week of Helen Keller's birthday. And it's a time
where we recognize and honor the contributions, the experiences and

(03:38):
the voices of people living with a dual sensory loss.
And also, you know, we take time to reflect on
the incredible legacy of Helen Keller. You know, she was
a pioneer. You know, she was the first deaf blind
person in America to graduate from college with a degree.
She was this amazing, powerful disability rights advocate. And to

(03:58):
this day, she remains a symbol of resilience for our
deafblind community, not just here in WA, but worldwide. So
on Tuesday, the 24th of June, Deafblind West Australians are
hosting an incredible community event at Perth City Farm as
part of our celebrations for Deafblind Awareness Week. And we're

(04:18):
very fortunate that this event has been made possible through
funding from the Ndia and the generous sponsorship and support
of census WA. So at the event, members of our
deafblind community here in WA will be sharing their lived
experiences through a series of presentations covering topics like um,

(04:38):
peer support and self-advocacy, leadership and achievements. And we have
a really unique, interactive, experiential session that will be focused
on deafblind awareness. So we're really hoping our guests are
going to participate in that and sort of walk away
with some insights. So there'll also be the launch of
our Deafblind West Australian Young Leaders program. And that's a

(05:02):
fantastic new initiative that we're starting up that's aimed at
nurturing and supporting the next generation of deafblind advocates and changemakers.
But the highlight of the event will be the unveiling
of this new tactile art collaboration we've been working on.
So last weekend, the deafblind community came together at Lake

(05:24):
Mungo Recreation Club, and I just want to give a
big thank you to Lake Mungo Recreation Club, who kindly
and very generously wavered the high officials of their venue
as their way of showing support for our community. So
everyone came together for a mosaic workshop and created some
absolutely beautiful individual artworks on concrete stepping stones. And their

(05:47):
stepping stones are about the size of a dinner plate,
so these stepping stones will form part of a lasting
legacy that will be featured alongside our permanent mosaic totem
at Perth City Farm. The Mosaic Totem is an amazing
art piece that was very proudly created by the deafblind
community during Deafblind Awareness Week in 2023, so Deafblind Awareness

(06:12):
Week is all about connection and creativity and celebrating the
strength and resilience of this amazing deafblind community. And everyone
is welcome to come to our event and celebrate with
us and be a part of something you know, truly meaningful.

S1 (06:28):
Yeah, we'll let people know how they can contact you. Obviously,
bookings are important, aren't they beforehand?

S4 (06:33):
Absolutely. So the event is on the 24th of June,
which is a Tuesday, and it's from 9 a.m. to
11:30 a.m. at Perth City Farm, which is at one
City Farm Place in East Perth. RSVP are to myself
or to register you can email me at. l I

(06:54):
I dot o l I v e r at s
e s e s o u. And we ask that
people sort of register before the 11th of June so
we yeah can get a good idea of who's coming. And. Yeah,
we're just so so excited about this event. You know
we love to celebrate Deafblind Awareness Week. And yeah. And

(07:18):
we love to sort of check out what's happening around
the world as well, and how other countries are celebrating
and how other states in Australia are celebrating as well.
So yeah, very exciting time for us.

S1 (07:29):
We'll repeat those details before we wrap up and also
put them up with our show notes so people can
also access them from there. You talked about some of
the kind of topics that you'll be covering. I mean,
things like leadership that is just such an important thing,
isn't it? Because it's great to have support, but it's
nice if, you know, those who are living with deaf
blindness are kind of leading the way, if I could

(07:49):
put it that way.

S4 (07:50):
Well, Absolutely. And, you know, and we want to find
these this next generation of young leaders. We want them
to be a part of, you know, moving forward for
our community because, you know, they're going to be the
next voices for us. And yeah, so yeah, it's a
really exciting initiative, you know, to have this program. And yeah,
we're just so thankful for, you know, the funding we

(08:12):
received from the Ndia to make, you know, things like
this leadership program really possible.

S1 (08:18):
And I'd be a little bit cheeky in a sense,
when you ask about young leaders or emerging leaders, what
sort of age are you talking about or are you
kind of open to all. Uh, anyone is kind of
welcome to kind of put their hat in the ring.

S4 (08:30):
Well, we're looking at ages sort of 18 to 35. So,
you know, yeah, it's quite a broad age group and yeah,
we're just. Yeah. Sort of on the search now for
those people. Yeah. Trying to find them and. Yeah. And
get them to. Yeah. Come along and be a part
of this um, program.

S1 (08:47):
As one of the things that happens. I'm sure you'd
be aware of this. And many people listening in would be.
Often when you've got people that are doing a really
good job, you know, be it on a committee or
whatever role they're playing, everyone else thinks, I'll sit back
and let let me do it. I'll sit back and
let so-and-so do it. And then no one puts their
hand up because the person doing it is doing such
a good job. But unless you get a bit of

(09:07):
a succession plan or people that can put their hand
up as well and say, well, I want to be
involved and maybe be mentored through, then, you know, there
might come a day when that sort of program stops
or doesn't function as well as it could have.

S4 (09:21):
Oh, absolutely. You know, and with this leadership program as well,
we want these young leaders to be part of our
Deafblind West Australians Board because they are our future. You know,
we want them to. Yeah. To to be, you know,
really actively involved in the community and going out there and,
you know, teaching people about deafblind awareness and doing presentations

(09:44):
and just getting word out there about our community.

S1 (09:47):
What about as far as the areas that you know
you cover? Because Western Australia is a very big state
size wise. Are you welcoming sort of input from people
kind of outside the metropolitan area?

S4 (09:59):
Oh, absolutely. We welcome, you know, deafblind, you know, young
leaders from all over our Western Australia. We you know,
we were to get people from way up north or
way down south. We would make this program work. You know,
we need people in our regional areas to be able
to go out and present about deafblind awareness to, you know,
to to talk about deafblind West Australians and who we

(10:22):
are and what we do. So yeah, we're we're reaching
out as well. WA to um, yeah. To find these
young leaders.

S1 (10:31):
A little bit more about this artwork because that's been
a bit of a, a feature over the few years
that we've chatted about it. So people in the past,
you know, kind of having art as part of the
celebration is such a vital thing as well.

S4 (10:43):
It is, and in particular for our community, tactile eyes is,
you know, what we we engage in because we, you know,
people with a dual sensory loss, having something that's tactile
and being able to create something tactile is just so,
so meaningful to them. So yeah, and we have we've
done some amazing projects. I know you've spoken to Karen

(11:03):
Wickham in past years about our yarn bombing, um, project
that we did for Deafblind Awareness Week. I think that
was in 2022. And then again last year in 2024,
we did the yarn bombing. So and that was a
really wonderful tactile experience as well.

S1 (11:19):
I'm really good advocates and with really good imaginations because
you need something a little bit creative, something a little
bit different sometimes just to kind of get the attention.

S4 (11:27):
Absolutely. Yeah. And what we, we love about this art
installation that we're doing in collaboration with Perth City Farmers that,
you know, our deafblind community and their families and their
friends and future generations will be able to go and
visit Perth City Farm and Farm, and they'll be able
to see our totem that we created in 2023. They'll

(11:48):
be able to see the addition of the stepping stones,
and they'll be able to feel it and touch it.
And it is it's this lasting legacy to deafblind West
Australians that is there, you know, and we we have, um,
some signs with QR codes that will take people to,
you know, our website where they can find out about
deafblind West Australians, where they can find out about what

(12:11):
is deafblindness, they can, you know, find out about, you know,
what what we do, who we are and yeah, and
the different things that we do, you know, our events
and that. So yeah, it's just really exciting to have
this artwork that we're doing now as part of this
lasting legacy.

S1 (12:31):
And those stepping stones, they're kind of very symbolic, aren't they?

S4 (12:34):
Very, very symbolic one, because they're created by our community.
So they chose what they wanted to put on these
stepping stones. And for some people they they have prepared.
You know, they came with a plan of what they
wanted to create and what that symbolized to them. So yeah,
they're very significant meanings to the our community who created them.

(12:56):
And they are extremely beautiful. And they're just going to
look amazing with our totem.

S1 (13:02):
Lily. Lily, I should say tell us a little bit
about yourself. You've been involved for 14 years. How did
you get involved.

S4 (13:07):
Through chance, to be honest, through chance. Karen Wickham and
I go back many, many years.

S5 (13:13):
I can't go back that far because you're not that old.

S4 (13:15):
Oh, thank you so much, I like you.

S1 (13:20):
So I'm.

S4 (13:21):
Friends.

S1 (13:23):
Oh, really? Oh, fantastic.

S4 (13:26):
So, yeah. Carolyn. Um, yeah. Karen and I go back many,
many years, and, um, she had been trying to get
me to come and work for census for many, many years.
At the time, I was working as a social trainer
with the then Disability Service Commission, who are now the
Department of Communities and have worked as a social trainer
for many, many, many years. And I was at that

(13:47):
stage where I loved what I was doing but wanted
to do something a little more, something a little different.
And this opportunity came up to be trained as a
communication guide and be involved in this amazing pilot project
that was introduced in communication guides to Western Australia. And
that was the thesis for our then manager of deafblind services,

(14:12):
Matthew Whittle. It was his thesis for his Masters of
Occupational Therapy. So to be involved in being a communication
guide and seeing what 1 to 1 specialised support could
do for a person with a dual sensory loss was
just an amazing experience and I just fell in love
with the work I was doing. And yeah, here I am,

(14:34):
you know, eight and a half years later, still doing
it and still loving it.

S1 (14:38):
And still doing it well. I'd imagine it'd be very challenging,
but at the same time very rewarding.

S4 (14:42):
Absolutely. But I think you can say that about any job.
Any job has its challenges and as its rewards. But yeah,
I very much love what I do, and I love
the community that I work with. And I feel very
privileged and very proud to be a part of it.

S1 (14:56):
And of course, one of the things about being involved
in the communication area, if you like, is that that
is very, very important to the individual because often we
hear about, you know, people who are deafblind or indeed
people with many disabilities, it can be a very isolating thing.
And there's lots of evidence to show that isolation is
not a good thing for one's general health, let alone
the fact that they've got that disability.

S4 (15:17):
Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, communication isn't just about communication. Communication
is a huge aspect of our job, and that's whatever
mode of communication and person uses, whether they're a sign
language user, whether they use spoken English, whether they use
tactile language, communication is really, really important and we need

(15:38):
the skills to be able to communicate with them. But
we also need to have those really, you know, strong
guiding skills to be able to safely guide people, to
help them navigate their environment and their world. And, you know,
and we need to be able to provide that environmental
information that they're missing. You know, when the project was
first developed and the role of communication Guide was first developed,

(16:01):
it was sort of looked at as, you know, we
are the eyes and ears of the person who is deafblind.
So it's our job as the sighting and hearing person
to be able to provide that missing auditory and missing
visual information that the person who is deaf blind is,
you know, missing out on.

S1 (16:19):
And get that connection happening, that trust that, uh, that
development of that relationship that is so, so important as well.

S4 (16:25):
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

S1 (16:28):
All right. So give us the details. So the day
is coming up, uh, during Helen Keller Week. So give
us the details and how we can contact you and
or respond by booking.

S4 (16:38):
So the event is on Tuesday, the 24th of June
from 9 a.m. till 11:30 a.m. and it's at Perth
City Farm, which is at one City Farm Place in
East Perth. And yet people can register by emailing me
on Leonie l I. O I b e r at

(17:02):
s e s s o and get registered by the
11th of June. So. And if anyone has any questions
they want to ask you, happy for them to contact me.
And I'm happy to answer any questions that they may
have about the event.

S1 (17:17):
Leonie, you've been a delight. Keep up the great work.
Enjoy the week. I'm sure it'll be a very successful
day in that morning. T that event will be very,
very successful.

S4 (17:25):
Well, good morning to you. Provided I did forget that.
Vital little details. Yes. So come along everybody. Yeah. everyone
is welcome to come and celebrate with us here. And yes,
morning tea will be provided. So yeah, come along. Listen
to some really, you know, amazing stories and shared experiences
and see some great presentations. Share morning tea with us

(17:47):
and yeah, come and see our fantastic unveiling.

S5 (17:51):
Take care. We'll see you again soon.

S4 (17:52):
Okay. Thanks a lot Katie. You have a lovely day.
Lovely to talk to you.

S1 (17:56):
That's lovely. Oliver, they're a deaf blind communicator from deaf
blind Western Australia. Their awareness week and their important event
happening on Tuesday the 24th of June. All those details
up with our show notes. And as always, if you
have any difficulty accessing them, please get in touch with
you at the radio station and we'll help you out.
I know I say it every month, but it's always

(18:17):
great catching up with Mayor Gardner from Crime Stoppers Victoria.
Lots of fantastic topics and this evening is no exception. Mayor.
Lovely to speak again.

S6 (18:26):
Hi, Peter. How are you?

S1 (18:27):
I'm good. Now you reach into your, uh, war of ideas,
and you've come up with gaming and people might think gaming. Oh,
I'm not sure about that. For those who might not
be aware, what is that?

S6 (18:39):
So gaming is very different from maybe what it used
to be, where it was. Gaming would be out on
the scooters, you know, playing games, hopscotch. Nowadays in 2025,
it is more than just entertainment. It's a way for
kids to explore, connect, express themselves. And a lot of
it is done online. There are some really popular games
out there like Minecraft, Roblox, Fortnite, and they offer immersive

(19:02):
environments and kids can build worlds, complete challenges, but even
chat with friends. So for many kids, gaming is becoming
a bit more like social time rather than just playtime.
And it's how they speak to their friends after school.
They often share experiences on these games and they find
a sense of achievement, but it also blends other parts
of digital culture that we're seeing a lot of. For example,

(19:24):
YouTube and Twitch streamers, they're playing games on a live stream,
and kids are watching people play games, and there are
online fan communities that are, you know, big fans of
a certain game. And this does contribute to its appeal
because it's interactive, it's rewarding, and it's more engaging than
just passive screen time like TV and movies. And for parents,

(19:46):
understanding this appeal and what is actually going on when
kids are playing games online, it's really, really important because
rather than just dismissing gaming as, you know, it's just
screen time, it needs to be limited. It's also important
to recognize its role in your child's social life, mental stimulation,
and also help them set those healthy boundaries around use,

(20:07):
but also understand what they're actually seeing on those screens
when they're playing those games, and how this could maybe
have a detrimental effect on them.

S1 (20:15):
So I guess this is where some of the points
that you're raising today come into play. And particularly for
parents or grandparents carers, there's a number of things they're
going to be looking out for, both positive and not
so positive.

S6 (20:27):
Absolutely. You know, each game offers a completely different experience,
a different audience. And then with that different potential risks. And,
you know, there are different games. For example, Minecraft, a
really popular game. It's a creative sandbox game where players
build mine and explore, and it has really strong educational value.
But public service can expose kids playing this game to

(20:50):
unmoderated chat and adult content. So a safety tip would be,
you know, encourage private multiplayer worlds so your friends that
they know personally could hop on together if they have
the right code. Not just, you know, anyone out there
in the world. And you can use child friendly servers,
which you know will monitor the types of conversations being had.

(21:10):
There are games like Fortnite and you know, it's pretty
colorful and fun looking, but at the end of the day,
it's still a shooting game and it's still a violent game. So,
you know, parents should use parental controls to restrict purchases,
manage chat settings and, you know, set clear times so
that they're not playing too much. But then each game
also has an age rating, right. So for example, Call

(21:33):
of Duty is Ma 15 plus. This is a realistic
first person shooter game. And it has graphic violence and
mature themes and also online lobbies, which is where people
are from around the world can hop in and play together.
And if you've got a headset, you can talk to them.
And there's often aggressive or abusive language in these online lobbies.

(21:54):
So if your teen is exposed to this, it can
affect them in many ways. But even Grand Theft Auto,
which is 18 plus, is 18 plus for a reason.
So if you're at the shops and you're, you know,
going to buy your kid a game and you see
it's 18 plus and they're not 18 and they go, no,
don't worry mom, don't worry dad, don't worry grandma, grandpa, it's,
you know, just says that because there's some shooting in it. Well,

(22:16):
these games, you know, it's an open world crime game
filled with violence, drugs, adult content. And it's got an
online mode, and it's completely unmoderated. So you need to
know where your kid is doing online and the things
that they're being exposed to because, you know, it might
not be age appropriate. And then if they're exposed to
these things too early on in life, then it might
affect them in their future.

S1 (22:37):
There are a couple of things that you've suggested is, first,
that parents, grandparents, whoever kind of place along with the child.
So they kind of say, you can kind of see
what they're doing. And the other thing that you kind
of also mentioned is that there is technology out there
that can kind of will help you help them kind
of shield themselves from this not so desirable side of life.

S6 (22:56):
Absolutely. There is so many ways that parents can help,
but it's so important that if they're going to help,
they know the signs. You know that maybe this isn't
going the way that they think it is. So there
are some things that are happening. Maybe it's addiction and
time loss. So these games are designed to be addictive
so they, you know, reward longer sessions with in-game progress.
You know there's items you can buy or you can

(23:18):
win them if you play a certain amount of hours.
And kids. Obviously when you're young, you really do struggle
to self-regulate. So what you can do instead as a
parent is you can use those in-game or device based
time limits. This is when you hop on, you get
in the settings and you know your the game will
turn off after that time limit has elapsed. So your

(23:38):
kids then have that balance. You can cause aggression and
anxiety in young kids because fast paced games, they cause frustration,
especially when kids lose or they're criticized by the online
people that they're playing with. But also violent games can
desensitize young players. So what can you do as a parent?
As a grandparent? Choose age appropriate games, like I said

(23:59):
and like you said, Peter, play alongside them so that
you understand what types of games that they're playing. You know,
it's not something that you go, oh, that's silly. That's
just for the kids. I'm not getting involved. If you're involved,
then you better understand the types of environments they're exposed
to and sort of how they're reacting to them as well.
Because if they get really addicted, as I mentioned, which

(24:21):
is an issue that can cause sleep and health issues
because excessive gaming, especially at night, can interfere with sleep cycles,
eating habits, physical well-being. So make sure as a parent
you're enforcing that digital curfew, no screens maybe an hour
before bed. Because obviously as stimulating violent shooter game could be,
you know, adrenaline pumping and you're not going to be

(24:43):
able to fall straight asleep if you've been playing that
before you go to bed. And if you think about
it this time that you spend gaming, what's that taking
away from? Maybe it's time away from academic things. So
if you can see that your child's, you know, schoolwork
and their results and their grades are going down, maybe
you need to speak to them about creating a better

(25:04):
balance between their school schedule and also their gaming schedule.
But probably the biggest risk, and something that I think
parents are maybe not quite aware enough of, is that
online games do come with a chat function that's online.
And this can be with adults much, much older than
them or even kids their own age. So it could

(25:24):
expose them to swearing, bullying, but really frighteningly predatory behaviour.
Because if you know they're speaking to someone who's called Liam,
who's 13 year old from Canberra, that could actually be,
you know, David, who's 55 in America, you know, because
it's behind that screen, it's hidden and they could be
exposed to some grooming sort of behaviour as well. So

(25:47):
parental controls to limit chat is so important and have
chats with your children about, you know, what sort of
behaviour to block and how to report users and talk
openly if someone makes them feel uncomfortable.

S1 (25:59):
One of the really interesting things that you said in
the information you sent through me was, you know, don't
judge a game by how popular it is as to
how safe it is.

S6 (26:07):
Absolutely. Do not do that, because a lot of these
games are incredibly popular because of how violent they are.
One of the most popular games you know out there
is Grand Theft Auto. This, as I said, is an
R 18 plus game, but there would be so many
kids playing it that are, you know, 12, 13 because
their parents buy it for them, not understanding the type

(26:28):
of content that's in it. So I think a way
that you can also really help your kids and it's
not they might not like it in the moment, but
you know, they they are going to thank you in
the future, which is that you can use parental controls
inside the game. So most gaming consoles and platforms offer
these parental control features. And there are tools that you

(26:51):
know to support but not replace active parenting. So these
are like I mentioned, the time management daily or weekly
screen time limits. Then they can be adjusted. So let's
say it's school holidays or weekends. It's maybe a little
bit longer. You can also filter content. So restrict access
to certain games that don't match your child's age or
maturity level. Or maybe it's just something you're not comfortable with.

(27:14):
You can stop them from being able to purchase things
inside games. And you can also restrict chats. And like
I said, this is probably the most important thing because
there are several different ways that children can communicate online,
which is a voice chat, which is maybe you've got
a headset and you're speaking with your voice or text chat.
So these are different things depending on your comfort level

(27:36):
and your child's age. Maybe you know what you need
to do, and you can monitor your child's gameplay history.
And this can be how long they've been playing and
which games they're using. And my advice would be, don't
set these controls in secret. Sit with your child, explain
what bits are in place, and you can revisit these
things over time, of course, but this helps build trust.

(27:57):
And so they're not going to try and sneak behind
your back and play more.

S1 (28:00):
Yeah, if you're being sneaky, I mean that might encourage
them to be sneaky. Whereas you say if it's all
out in the open, you know, a bit of trust
builds up. And of course, if you're playing along, there's
kind of a bit of a bonding angle to it
as well. You may be just trying to get you
to know each other a little bit better as well.

S6 (28:14):
Exactly. And I think, you know, being involved doesn't mean
you need to be a gamer. You know, a lot
of people a lot of people aren't interested in this.
You know, personally, I have I've got very little interest
in these games, but it's probably because I'm not very
good at them. If I was good at it, maybe
I would be. But losing over and over again to
me isn't that fun. But what really matters for parents

(28:35):
is showing interest, setting boundaries, and having these open conversations.
So I would say talk with your child regularly. Ask
them what they're playing, what their friends are playing, who
they're playing with. Very much an important one and what
they like about their games. You can even play together
like like I said, you don't have to be a gamer,
but just sit down, try a game with them. You
might be terrible at it, but that's okay. It's a

(28:57):
way to bond, learn and spot any issues you might
have with the game early. And if you explain to
your child why you're not comfortable with it, maybe you're
playing a game and go, look, I didn't realise how
graphic this was, and I understand that it might be fun,
but maybe can we go and pick a different game?
Because this one, I don't think is something that you're,
you know, old enough for yet. We'll keep it in
the drawer and maybe we'll reassess on your birthday. You know,

(29:21):
these sorts of things also maybe watch for some warning
signs of those things that I mentioned. So mood swings, fatigue,
failing grades. Yeah. Or even socially withdrawn. And this could
maybe mean that they're doing too much gaming, too much
screen time, or maybe they're experiencing some bullying, or maybe
even some predatory behavior online that's made them feel withdrawn.

(29:42):
So celebrate that healthy balance. Praise them when they turn
off the game without complaint, or stick to limits and
encourage other hobbies. This could be sport, reading, arts, anything
that gets them off the screen and balance gaming with,
you know, those that range of offline activities. But it's
so important to remember that gaming is a part of
your child's world, and it's very difficult these days to

(30:04):
say no screen time whatsoever, because most kids are, you know,
they have iPads at school. They have laptops, you know.
But remember that it is your guidance that shapes how
safe and healthy these experiences are going to be for them.
So they might not always thank you for the limits
that you put in place, you know, but those are
the boundaries that can help protect them and their well-being online,

(30:25):
but also offline.

S1 (30:27):
And even things like, you know, if you're doing a,
you know, do your chores, maybe you can play a
little bit longer or, you know, play a little bit
more on the weekend. Those sort of things as well.
If you clean up your room or put out the
bins or put away the dishes, that sort of stuff
as well. Bit of incentive can be used that way
as well.

S6 (30:41):
Absolutely. I mean, like you said, balance is so important.
And creating, you know, those respectful interactions online and offline.
Because if you explain to them what a disrespectful sort
of interaction is, because you know how I said that
kids might be exposed to bullying and harassment. They could
be the bully or the harasser. You know, they could
be the ones using foul language, making other people feel small.

(31:03):
You want to make sure that you are, you know,
in the vicinity, maybe the gaming consoles in the living room.
Maybe they're not feeling comfortable to to hurl abuse down,
you know, through the headpiece or to their friends while,
you know, mum and dad or grandma and grandpa are
within earshot. And this could maybe sort of dictate the
way that they use the games, because if they're in

(31:24):
private and they can say whatever they want, maybe they're
they're not going to be respectful. But as long as
you're teaching them what is and what isn't and you're
you're giving them all the tools to make sure that
this is a positive experience when they're gaming and something
that doesn't affect them negatively, then I think you're taking
some really good steps.

S1 (31:40):
Now you've got some information on your website about this
sort of thing.

S6 (31:43):
We sure do. So we've got a list of all
the different sort of popular games, what risks are associated
with those specific games and what you can do. And
we have this on the Crime Stoppers Victoria website and
that is Crimestoppers. But remember we've got, you know, things
about how different types of emojis and what they mean.
You know they're about the secret hidden meanings that your

(32:05):
kids are using them for. So lots of things. For parents.
But if you do have any crime information, we also
do take online reports on the website. Or if you
want to speak to someone, you can call one 803
000 Mia.

S1 (32:18):
We'll give you a month to come up with another
great idea because you always do, and I'm sure you
won't fail us next time. Thank you so much. That
was wonderful.

S6 (32:24):
Thanks, Tina.

S1 (32:25):
That was for me. A guy to there from Crime Stoppers. Victoria,
if there's something you'd like me to investigate, get in touch.
And I'm sure Mia will find out for us as well.
It's been a little while since we spoke about Intopia,
so let's correct that and speak to one of the
directors of Palace. Sarah, good to speak to you again.

S7 (32:45):
Thanks so much, Peter. Lovely to be here.

S1 (32:48):
And certainly an old friend of the show, an old friend,
a long time friend of the show. Andrew. Andrew, great
to catch up with you again.

S8 (32:54):
Yes, it's been a while since I've been on Peter,
but good to be back.

S1 (32:57):
Get out of that. Easy enough. A long time, friend.
All right. Yeah, well, Sarah, maybe you be good just
for those new listeners or people that haven't heard of it.
I haven't spoken about it for a little while. Give
us a bit of a brief thumbnail sketch of what
you do and who you are.

S7 (33:12):
Sure, absolutely. So Intopia is a, um, digital accessibility and
inclusive design agency. And so we really specialize in helping
organizations make sure their products are accessible and inclusive to everyone.
And of course, that does include people with disabilities and

(33:32):
also the blind community. Yeah, that's pretty much what we
do in a nutshell. But then there's a whole range
of things that that we kind of do as part
of that, everything from helping organizations specifically make the product
inclusive to helping, you know, particularly larger organizations, how do
they make accessibility business as usual, and how do they

(33:53):
do that at scale when you're likes of a big
bank or a big e-commerce, you know, sort of, uh, organization.
So there's a lot that definitely goes into it and
we can help with everything pretty much.

S1 (34:06):
Andrew, how long have you been around?

S8 (34:07):
Um, I've been in Tokyo. Not you personally, but.

S9 (34:10):
I was going to say that's a loaded question.

S8 (34:12):
I think Intopia has been around for over nine years,
nine and a half years now, and I've been with
them for, um, coming on for eight years. But, um, personally,
I've been doing this stuff since the mid late 1990s.

S1 (34:25):
If I remember our early chats about websites and how
inaccessible they might have, might have been. And hopefully that's
all getting better now. Andrew, you've been doing some really
great work recently with the Human Rights Commission.

S8 (34:36):
Yes, we certainly have. Um, Intopia
was contracted to help the Human Rights Commission update their
advice under the Disability Discrimination Act or Things Digital. They
had a note there, which they've had a series of notes.
The last one before we did this update was a
version 4.1 showing that they'd been through many iterations. And

(34:59):
I think the first note came out in the very
late 90s. The last one referred specifically to the World
Wide Web. Not that anybody calls it that anymore. But
as we all know, digital is now ubiquitous. And so
part of the requirement was to pick up everything outside
the World Wide Web that's digital, and that the Disability

(35:22):
Discrimination Act applies to. So we've worked with them for
over a year, probably to bring that new guidance, bring
that new guidance.

S9 (35:35):
Sort of about 18 months to almost two.

S8 (35:37):
Years, closer to 18 months by the time it was released.
That's right.

S1 (35:41):
And they well, are they are you happy with the
finished product or is it kind of a live document
that there's always work to be done?

S8 (35:47):
There's always going to be work to be done because
the technology keeps changing and hopefully the commission will pick
that up and, uh, you know, produce small updates, um,
from time to time, rather than waiting for a big
bang release of a brand new set of guidance. So,
you know, we think we've structured the new guidance in

(36:09):
such a way that if a new standard comes out
from the World Wide Web Consortium, um, like the wcaG three, say, um,
in three years time, they can, you know, just apply
that in the section that talks about standards or a
new standard comes out from standards. Australia or the government
releases a new policy like their recent, um, digital experience policy.

S1 (36:30):
Now what about as far as, uh, companies, uh, organizations that, uh,
work with you? Sarah, do you go out looking for them?
Do they come to you? Are you kind of, um,
well recognized for the work that you can do and
hopefully improve their business? Because I guess that's part of the,
the the thing of being accessible is you kind of
make yourself more open to more people.

S7 (36:48):
Absolutely. Yeah. So we've got a really good reputation. And
actually the majority of our work is either, um, people
coming back to us who have worked with us before
or may have worked with us at one organization or
and move on to another, or they're referrals. So someone
who has worked with us then, you know, refers another

(37:10):
person on to us. So we actually do very little
what I'll call when I say active marketing, probably what
I should say is more that cold calling, you know,
where you're on the phone to people going, hey, you know,
I'm in topia. You know, we could help you like that.
We do nothing like that. We get so many inquiries
coming in that that's how we respond. But of course,

(37:31):
we're out there talking about accessibility. You know, whether it's
about the guidelines. You know, we've been talking about those
a lot. Of course, since their launch, we've been doing
some lunch and learns with some of the organizations they're
working with and that kind of thing. So, you know,
that's just one example, I guess, of how we're out
there sharing our knowledge and experience, which means then people
come to recognize us. And when they do need that

(37:53):
help and assistance, then they they do tend to come
to us and say, hey, we're at that point where
we do want to take this further. How can you
help us?

S1 (38:01):
Andrew, does that live with a disability? Kind of know
this is important and kind of get it, if I
can put it that way. Do you think that the
wider community are aware of it and also kind of
the more benefits, if you like, if they become more
accessible not just to people with disabilities or not just
to those people who might be blind or have low vision.
Kind of the the broader application of making themselves accessible

(38:22):
is something that more people are aware of.

S8 (38:24):
Definitely. And the decade, two decades plus that I've been
working in this area, the awareness has just been growing
and growing and growing, which is a delight to see. And,
you know, that's reflected obviously in our Ethiopia's growth. You know,
we went from when I joined, we were five of
us were now over 35. And that's an indication of
the awareness out there in the community about how important

(38:47):
this is to their business. And, you know, just to
throw a number in there, you know, if we talk
about vague numbers, like 21% of the population has a disability,
what does that really mean? Now it's greater than the
population of Sydney or the population of Melbourne. Is any
organization really prepared to ignore the population of Melbourne? Where

(39:07):
I'm where I'm based? That's a big ask of their
marketing and their digital team to say Melbourne doesn't matter.
We'll just work with the rest of the country.

S1 (39:16):
I'm going to put that in the memory bank because
often I say that or, you know, any business that
can afford to alienate or not include 20% of the population,
like there must be going more than okay. But when
you put it like that, I mean, that kind of
makes it even more real, doesn't it? You know, you're
excluding Melbourne's population.

S8 (39:31):
Yeah, it gives some context around that 21%. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

S1 (39:35):
It's one of the questions people ask is it expensive
or how much is this going to cost? I guess
you can probably reply by saying, well, you know, can
you afford not to be that inclusive? But is that
is that a consideration these days?

S7 (39:47):
Oh, look, it is definitely a consideration. You know, businesses
are always weighing up, you know, where their profit margins are,
how much things are going to cost, what is that benefit,
that return on investment or that kind of thing. So,
you know, it is definitely a a common conversation. And
I think, you know, for us, like what we talk
about is, you know, all of those different things that

(40:09):
do impact businesses. And so, you know, it is good for,
you know, your customers. So, you know, when you do
build websites that are inclusive, it is actually just a
better experience for everyone. It's also not just that sort
of 21% who identify as having a disability, but you know,
it is anyone who might have a temporary disability or

(40:33):
find themselves in a situation that might actually, you know,
impact them or that kind of thing. So once again,
you know, there's lies, damn lies and statistics. And so
it's like, yep, you know, there's that there's an aging
population and that kind of thing. It's also, you know,
great for your brand. And also if you've got competitors
that are not looking in this space, it's a competitive

(40:54):
advantage as well to, you know, look at this and go, hey,
you know, my competitors aren't really that accessible. Then there's
an untapped market there. So, you know, for us, we
really do talk about all of those different business benefits
and tailor that to also the the organizations in the
industry that they're in.

S1 (41:11):
Andrew, what about people that might want to kind of
get involved with making things more accessible? Do you offer
things in that area, courses or ways that people can
kind of learn for themselves?

S8 (41:20):
We do. I mean, that's that's one of the realms
Sarah mentioned right at the start about, you know, we
do a whole range of different things. And one of
the things we do offer is training either a group
training for a group inside an organization. We also have
some public training, and we also have some, uh, you know, e-learning, where,
you know, an organization can import it into their own
learning system. Now, typically the larger organizations, like a large

(41:44):
government department or a know large corporate, but that means
that you can learn at your own pace. Or you can,
you know, do learn on demand. Okay, I need to
know about X next week because of the project I'm
working on. They can dip into the learning at that
at that point. So yes, you know we that's one
of the things we do just coming back to, you
know the advantages of inclusive design though. Now if you

(42:06):
think about it, how many people take advantage of those
curb cuts in the full path these days? Just about
everybody appreciates them not having to trip over the gutter. Um,
even accessibility is much the same thing. You know, there's
lots of documentation out there that, you know, a large
part of the population now watch their TV or their

(42:26):
movie with captions turned on, because they just find it
easier to concentrate on it when they've got captions on
and they're listening to the dialogue. So there's, you know,
very much that broader benefit of Sarah was saying of
inclusive design and accessibility.

S1 (42:39):
So one of the other cool things that you do
is you involve people with disabilities. You use them kind
of for testing. So you're kind of getting that lived
experience as well.

S7 (42:48):
Yeah, absolutely. Um, so that's definitely a core part of,
of what we do and something that we're always encouraging
organizations to do more of. Unfortunately, the reality is a
lot of organizations do when they're starting in accessibility, they
do tend to focus more on does it conform with
accessibility standards. But, you know, once they actually see, um,

(43:11):
you know, a person with lived experience interacting with their product,
you know, whatever that product is, it suddenly brings to
light to them, you know, first of all, the value
of that. Um, but also then that, um, you know, it's, um,
there's nothing like watching a person struggle to do something,
you know, to, to really drive home. You know what?

(43:33):
That you know what that experience is like. And we're
really clear with people that, uh, you know, just because
something is what we call technically accessible, i.e. it conforms
with standards doesn't actually mean it's usable for people who
are actually using that product, which is why it is
so important to do user research and usability testing and

(43:53):
get that feedback from people with lived experience to truly understand,
you know, how how good your product is, basically.

S1 (44:01):
That's a great point, isn't it, Andrew? Because it's not
just a matter of, say, sort of complying, but also,
you know, that it can be intuitive or, you know,
user friendly as well. Like you kind of almost can't, uh,
you know, you can't put a price on that.

S8 (44:14):
That's right. And, you know, I always tend to say
to people, if they're sort of humming and hawing about,
you know, it might be a bit costly to, um,
recruit some people with disability to do that usability testing.
Think about it as an investment, because typically we find
that if I've got, uh, you know, if I find
a very minor thing, I can usually find a work

(44:35):
way around it. But for some people with disabilities, it
becomes a major roadblock for them and means that they
can't actually proceed because of the nature of that. Um,
you know, it might be a technical, it might be
a usability issue, but, uh, you know, because of the
technology that they're using, they, you know, whether it be
a screen reader, whether it, you know, it's some sort

(44:55):
of alternative keyboard or something like that, you know, it
can become the, the, the thing that stops them progressing
any further. And they'll look for, you know, another place
to go and do their banking or their shopping or,
or whatever it is. So, you know, we find that
doing the usability testing with people with disabilities, especially with
assistive technologies, can identify a lot of little hiccups that

(45:18):
people like myself or Sarah might encounter and just jump
over them, but they become major blockers for others. So,
you know, it actually identifies a year or so earlier
things that can make it better for everybody, not just
for people with disability.

S1 (45:33):
Their customer life might be lost forever.

S8 (45:34):
That's right.

S9 (45:35):
Right.

S1 (45:36):
So if people want to find out more, you've obviously
got a website where people can get a lot more information.
You can sign up for your regular newsletters and information
that you put out, which is always very, very interesting reading.

S7 (45:45):
Yeah, absolutely. It's very easy. It's intopia. That's our website,
so really easy to get to. If you are interested
in the guidelines that have been released from the Australian
Human Rights Commission, we also have some resources. So not
just the guidelines themselves, but you know, some resources like infographics.

(46:05):
Also the webinar that launched the guidelines and a Q&A
webinar that followed. So there's lots of resources on there
around the guidelines, but then also everything else we've got,
including the services we offer, but then also other free
resources too that would help you, you know, just do
things in a more accessible way.

S5 (46:24):
Andrew, Sarah, great to catch up.

S1 (46:25):
I hope we speak again in the not too distant future.

S8 (46:28):
Thanks Peter.

S7 (46:28):
So much.

S9 (46:29):
Peter.

S1 (46:29):
That's Andrew Arch and also Sarah Pulis there from Intopia.
We'll put those details up with our show. A little
earlier than usual, will give you an audio described show
of the week. It's coming up Tuesday evening, 730 SBS
Main Channel. Who do you think you are? Now this
features Tom Gleason, who encounters ancestors who have changed. The

(46:51):
family name also comes face to face with murderers, thieves
and convicts. So who do you think you are featuring
Tom Gleason, very well known comedian and media personality. That's
the 730. On Tuesday evening, SBS's main channel audio described

(47:11):
rated PG. Some birthdays before we go. That's why Jacob's
having a birthday. Great technologists and happy birthday to you, Francois.
Also a very big happy birthday to Sharon Taylor. Uh,
recently started work with Pacific Vision. So, Karen, a big
happy birthday to you and Emma Hart having a birthday.
Good on you, Emma, and wishes to become a regular

(47:32):
listener in more recent weeks. So Emma, thank you for
your ears. Appreciate you listening to us. As I mentioned earlier,
a very sad to report the passing of Wendy McDougall.
I've got a little thing I've prepared to let you
know a little bit about Wendy. And then, thanks to
the audio genius of Barry Chapman, we've got a great
way to take it out. Wendy loved this sport so

(47:53):
we can let her kick the goal after the siren.
Being last on the program or maybe kick hit the
winning run as far as cricket goes. Or maybe if
you're at a concert, the top billing is always at
the end. And Wendy takes that place on this program.
Thank you, Sam Rickard, for your help. Thank you, Pam
Green for yours. Reminding you that Focal Point is available

(48:14):
on your favorite podcast platform on Australia Radio and the
Reading Radio Network. This is focal point. I'm sure many
of you now would be aware of the fact that sadly,
last week we lost Wendy McDougall, long time producer from

(48:36):
25 years of producing Focal Point. Sadly, Wendy passed away
last week. I think we could probably say that Wendy
was destined to be in the media. Wendy was born
in a taxi on the way to the Queen Victoria
Hospital the next day, Wendy's mum and Wendy made the Advertiser.
So that was certainly an auspicious start to an amazing life.

(48:59):
Being in the Advertiser, literally the first day of your life,
being talked about how you were born in a taxi.
Wendy went to Townsend School where she did exceptionally well,
in fact, so well that after Townsend, Wendy went to
mainstream education at a very well established private school in Adelaide,
Walford College, and from there Wendy went to the Adelaide

(49:23):
Music Conservatorium. Wendy was outstanding at music and certainly the
Conservatorium was a great fit for Wendy. After that Wendy
spent quite some time working as part of the school's program,
where she played music for various schools. Group accompanied them
and was very, very good at that. That employment continued
for quite some time. Wendy loved music, Wendy loved sport,

(49:47):
the media, TV. Very, very passionate about all those things
and certainly also very good, especially at music. Wendy got
involved with as it was then focal point. Back in
the mid to late 90s, a focal point had started
on Vision Australia Radio. I think Wendy was tuning in
and kind of called in and said anything I can

(50:09):
do to help, and we took Wendy up on her
offer and came in. So what Wendy was doing was
ringing people up before they went to air, so the
guests would be lined up. Wendy would ring them, put
them on hold and then put them through to the studio,
and we'd chat to them on the radio. And it's
been really. I was going to say it's been incredible,
but maybe not so incredible over the last few days,

(50:31):
with people responding to email lists and Facebook messages talking
about the fact that they do remember Wendi, ring them
up and being very friendly, and if they were a
bit nervous, comforting them before going to air, which were
such a great thing to hear and not surprising, but
also very, very pleasing. A number of people also remembered

(50:52):
Wendi getting a cheerio on Focal point over the last
five years or so, and felt like they got to
know Wendi through that particular time when he was involved
with music, as we mentioned, and also Beyond Blindness or
Blind welfare as it was then involved with that particular
music group and other things when he was an early

(51:12):
adopter of the internet, very much into technology. Could be
frustrated by it, as we all can be, but certainly
took it on. Enjoyed listening to some of the American
sports via some of the American sports radio programs, and
of course, enjoyed Barry Rob, Bruce and Dean's program on
their internet radio station for many, many years and a

(51:34):
number of times actually appeared on the program, so that
was a great thing that Wendy enjoyed. Wendy's favorite television
programs were things like Doctor Who, love the music of
Doctor Who, also Star Trek. Coronation Street was a great
fan of Coronation Street. None of those things really gelled
much with some of us, but we had to appreciate

(51:54):
it and hear Wendy's recounting of some of the incidences
that took place, which is always a lovely memory to
have when he was a Woodville supporter in the SANFL.
Then when they merged with West Torrens, became an Eagle supporter,
a very passionate supporter when they came in and rather uniquely,

(52:15):
was also Port Adelaide supporter. You either follow port or
the crows or Wendy was clever. Wendy could do both
equally passionately. I think when the crows played port, Wendy
did like to hope that the crows would win, but
certainly a great supporter of South Australia, which is a
wonderful thing. Interestingly enough, one of the things that stood

(52:37):
out about Wendy was she was a very, very friendly, very,
very placid, very, very calm. But when it came to footy,
tipping Wendy was enormously competitive and well, competitive to a
certain extent. She'd come in on a Wednesday evening and say,
how'd you go on the weekend? And as long as
she tipped more winners than Phil and me, she was happy,
or as long as she was on the ladder ahead

(52:59):
of me, she was happy. Didn't matter where anyone else was,
as long as it was the head of Phil and me.
So that was one of the very amusing things about Wendy,
how much she was competitive in a very, very nice way.
So another thing that will remember, it's been really sad
over the last few days, in a sense, to get
to find out a little bit more about Wendy and

(53:21):
some of the great things that people said about her.
None of them have been surprising. They've all been reassuring
some really long lifetime friends from literally 5 or 6
years of age at Townshend, people like Tom McMahon and
Lenny Binetti, who, uh, Wendy knew very well from all
those ages. And what's that? 60, nearly 70 years later,

(53:41):
still keeping in touch and people still wanting to know
how Wendy was going and then paying their tributes for
the last few days. And Wendy was very, very fond
of headmaster and teacher at Townsend School. John Rogers always
spoke so highly about John, and I know that John
was very saddened to hear the news when that was
relayed to John just a few days ago. So another

(54:04):
great thing about Wendy. So to um, and who's been
really good over the last few days, keeping us in
touch with some of the things that have been going on,
a little bit of information about Wendy, obviously a very
stressful time. So and thank you very much for the
way that you've kept us in touch and the way
that you've held it together and kept us informed of

(54:27):
the information that we were after. So thank you so
much to Anne and Sandra. Our deepest sympathies to you
as well. Wendy will certainly be very, very sadly missed.
A life well led, a life taken too soon, and
the last few years probably weren't as weren't as healthy
as Wendy would have liked, and certainly as Wendy would
have deserved. It was a pretty tough time health wise,

(54:49):
and those of us that contacted her found it a
little bit confronting, but I think she was always happy
to hear us and happy to hear from us, so
we appreciate that. As I've mentioned a couple of times,
Wendy certainly loved her music and a line from my music, uh,
of a hit of the 60s and 70s kind of
comes to mind at a time like this. If you

(55:11):
believe in forever, then life is just a one night stand.
If there's a rock and roll heaven, you know they've
got a hell of a band. And certainly that band,
that group, those musicians in heaven have certainly been enhanced greatly.
By Wendy McDougall. Wendy, thank you for all you did
for Focalpoint. It was really very much appreciated. Your feedback,

(55:33):
your chasing up stories, your giving us ideas. It was
all part of a team that was such an important
part of, uh, the program for 25 or so years.
And we certainly appreciate that. Wendy, you will never be forgotten. Now,
as I mentioned, Wendy was a great fan of, uh,
Barry Chapman and Rob Byers in particular, Dean and also

(55:54):
Bruce with their radio program. Barry has done some incredible
piece of audio work. Back in 2014, we interviewed Wendy.
Wendy came out of the out of the producer's booth
into the studio, and we chatted about the fact that
Wendy was at the concert 50 years earlier, when the
Beatles had came to Adelaide and shared some memories of it.

(56:15):
Barry's done a great little thing, because at the end
of the interview, we asked Wendy to sing just a
few lines of Wendy's favorite song. Wendy sent this off
to the Beatles. The Beatles heard it and thought, we
must join in. Wendy McDougall. Thank you. Rest in peace.

S10 (56:36):
Well, many people will probably be or have seen the
special last night on ABC TV and will probably remember
50 years ago, um, the, um, the arrival, of course,
of the The Beatles. We actually have Peter, I guess,
somebody who actually went to that concert and the fact
that she's vision impaired is also another thing. But why

(56:59):
don't we talk to her and find out how it went?

S1 (57:01):
Yes. Our producer, Wendy McDougall. Wendy, welcome. Thank you. Now,
it's only 50 years ago. What can you remember? Let's
talk about the lead up to it. Um, obviously, the
Beatles were something that, uh, you were interested in to
to want to go. Or was it more, uh, your
sister that. Oh, no. I asked you.

S11 (57:17):
Oh, no. No, I think it was probably me. Yeah.
I mean, my sister was a fan, but, uh, I
can't sort of remember if it was 50 years ago.
You can't remember how it came about.

S1 (57:28):
But you've been a big fan since. But. So you're
a fan even at the time?

S11 (57:32):
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

S1 (57:34):
So what can you remember about, uh, say, booking tickets
and sort of before going along? Can you remember much
about that?

S11 (57:39):
I would imagine that mum would have done it. Yeah.
Because I've, I probably would have been at school. Okay.
So I presume that mum did it.

S5 (57:47):
Now, what.

S1 (57:47):
About the concert. Can you remember much about it, particularly
the lead up to it? Uh, because, uh, there was
a lot of people to see the Beatles, uh, as
in when they arrived and then the concert itself. Can
you sense whether it was like the proverbial, uh, massive
sea of humanity that were there to, to see that,
that the actual.

S5 (58:05):
Concert.

S11 (58:05):
The lead up, the when they arrived in Adelaide. Mum,
I'm pretty sure mum went down to Anzac Highway to
to have a look. Yeah. Which is always surprised me
because I mean, she wasn't really, you know, into the Beatles,
but I suppose she was just curious.

S10 (58:19):
Yeah, she's probably the only mum that did, actually, because
I know that there were a lot of people who
were sort of given, um, until I think there was
a girl school who was given strict instructions that they
were not to leave the school, and they were not
to have the day off sort of thing.

S11 (58:31):
Yeah. That was on the special last night. Yes, yes. Yeah.

S10 (58:34):
So that was the interesting thing when you went to
the the concert. What was what was in your uppermost
in your mind, do you wanted to, to to hear
the Beatles sing.

S1 (58:45):
Or did you want to scream.

S10 (58:46):
Or did.

S11 (58:46):
You. No, I didn't want to scream. But I mean,
for a start, it was absolutely incredible. It was so deafening.
But you sort of got caught up in it. Yeah.
And my sister Anne and I ended up both ended
up screaming. And my cousin, who came down from Perry
with a friend to see them, she just sat there
all through it. Quiet. I don't know how she managed it, but, um.

S5 (59:06):
Well, what can.

S1 (59:07):
You what can you remember hearing of the concert? Because,
as you said, there was a lot of screaming. They
actually hear them. The Beatles play.

S11 (59:14):
Oh yeah, yeah. Once you got once you got used
to the screaming.

S1 (59:18):
Can you remember any of the songs they played?

S11 (59:20):
Not particularly, but I mean, it would have been being 64.
It would have been things like, I saw her standing there. Yeah,
she loves you, love me. Do all my loving, I suppose.

S1 (59:29):
Yeah. From all reports, it wasn't a very long concert,
particularly compared to maybe concerts of today. Apparently it was only, what,
30 or 40 minutes?

S11 (59:35):
Yeah, I don't I've got no idea how long it was.
I don't think.

S10 (59:38):
It was about. Yeah. Somebody did say.

S11 (59:40):
That. Of course they had lead up artists too.

S1 (59:43):
Did you go for that? Were you there for those
as well? Yeah.

S11 (59:45):
Yeah. So it sounds incorporated. I think it was.

S1 (59:49):
Yeah.

S10 (59:49):
They were a British band weren't they.

S11 (59:52):
Don't know.

S1 (59:52):
I think they were. Yeah. Um, what about, uh, before
before the Beatles came on, was the crowd a bit
more sort of, uh, you know, behaved a bit more conventionally.
It's just when the Beatles came on that everyone went, oh.

S11 (01:00:04):
I think so. Yeah, from what I can remember. Yeah.

S1 (01:00:07):
Um, what about, uh, after that, uh, sort of getting
out and, that sort of thing. So I think there
were two concerts on the one night. I'm not sure.
Did you go?

S11 (01:00:15):
Yeah. I didn't know that. No, I'm pretty sure we
went to the second one.

S1 (01:00:18):
Okay. So getting away.

S11 (01:00:19):
I can remember I don't know whether we whether mum
was going to come and get us or whether was it.
I suppose I can remember us walking and walking and
walking afterwards. It seemed like for ages before we. I
suppose we must have been picked up. Unless. Unless we.
They flagged a taxi. I don't know how we got home.

S10 (01:00:36):
Well, they're still screaming out that they walked out of
the out of the.

S11 (01:00:39):
I don't think I don't think so.

S1 (01:00:41):
What about, uh, the sort of media's coverage of the
tour at the time? Can you remember much about that?

S11 (01:00:47):
Oh, I taped hours of it. I can remember at
the time. Yeah, because I think it was five k. Um,
Malcolm Searle, I don't know if people remember him. He
used to be, he used to do Cole's quiz on TV,
among other things. But he travelled around Australia with the Beatles. Okay.
And they did, you know, crosses to to wherever they
were all the time. And interviews with the with the

(01:01:09):
Beatles and and I take lots of it.

S1 (01:01:11):
Can you remember if the Beatles, like, spoke at the
concert or anything like that?

S11 (01:01:15):
Oh, I suppose to introduce what they were singing. I think.

S1 (01:01:18):
Yeah. And obviously people were going berserk.

S11 (01:01:20):
Yeah. The thing that upset me the most was that
Ringo wasn't there.

S1 (01:01:23):
Of course.

S11 (01:01:24):
Because he was my favorite.

S1 (01:01:25):
Of course. Yes. Of course. Jimmy Nicholl was here. Just,
just I think for the Adelaide concert, wasn't he? And
Ringo was over his tonsillitis and came out for the
rest of the tour.

S11 (01:01:34):
Yeah.

S1 (01:01:34):
Did you know Ringo wasn't coming at the time?

S11 (01:01:36):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Beforehand? Yeah.

S1 (01:01:39):
That obviously didn't didn't put you off.

S11 (01:01:40):
I was not happy.

S1 (01:01:42):
What about some of your favorite Beatle songs? I know
we were chatting before and you said, uh, well, you
probably got a list of, uh, ten, and that's even
without having a special one.

S11 (01:01:51):
Yeah. Really special ones. Yeah. Uh, if I fell. And here,
there and everywhere. Am I, too all time favorites?

S1 (01:01:57):
Because you're you're a musician yourself. What do you think
makes them so good or made them so good? And why?
Why have they endured? I mean, 50 years ago, guy
that the media of today has been full of, you know,
50 years of celebration since they were here.

S11 (01:02:14):
I mean, there must have been great songwriters, but I
think to George Martin was the man behind the, you know,
the production. To hear him talk about, you know, how
how the music was, especially the later music, it got
more what do you call it? Sophisticated, I suppose. Not
necessarily better though. Yeah. But, uh, but as I was

(01:02:35):
saying to somebody else the other day, I heard yesterday
a string orchestra playing, um, yesterday. And when you listen
to something like that, you think, what a great song
that was. Mhm. That it just sounded so, so good
and played by an orchestra.

S1 (01:02:52):
One of your favorite albums is, is so because they
wrote every song on it.

S11 (01:02:55):
Yeah. That's not. Yeah. Rubber soul is another favorite.

S1 (01:02:59):
Um, uh, what about the The Beatles films? Did you
see them or did they do much for you?

S11 (01:03:05):
No. Not really. Yeah, I suppose it was. It was
only for the music because they didn't have much of.
I suppose A Hard Day's Night was the most serious.
I mean, help was crazy from what I can remember.

S1 (01:03:17):
Do you and your sister talk about that day, or
any cousin that came down from. Do you talk about much,
much about that day?

S11 (01:03:24):
No, not that I can remember.

S1 (01:03:26):
Because, I mean, it was it was probably one of
the things that it happened at the time. But I
guess looking back on it, you sort of think, gee,
we were actually there.

S11 (01:03:33):
It was the best, just the best time back. Back then.

S1 (01:03:37):
Yeah.

S11 (01:03:38):
There will never be anything like it again, I don't think.

S1 (01:03:40):
Now, I know if it was hinting that, you know,
some kids in particular were told not to take time
off school, but of course, these concerts were at night,
so school wasn't.

S11 (01:03:49):
And on the weekend.

S1 (01:03:50):
Okay. So you weren't affected by that.

S11 (01:03:52):
Oh no. Not said no. Not there.

S1 (01:03:53):
Yeah, yeah. And the stuff that's been going on, has
it brought back memories or is it does it sometimes
with things like this that almost seems like it was
someone else that was there. Do you sort of feel
like that as well? Yeah. Sometimes when you think back
on it, you almost think, was that really me that
was there?

S11 (01:04:07):
Oh, no. No, but but I don't know that any
that's brought, that brought any special memories back. I just
remember what I remember. Yeah. Um, I think one thing
I do remember, it's got nothing to do with the concert,
but we had a fancy dress thing at school. I
don't know whether it was that year. I suppose it
would have been. And, uh, four of us dressed up

(01:04:28):
as the Beatles. And, boy, did we get a reception. Well,
I think we sang Please, Please Me. I had to
play the piano course.

S1 (01:04:34):
Okay.

S11 (01:04:35):
But, um.

S1 (01:04:36):
So a reception similar to what the Beatles have got.

S11 (01:04:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

S1 (01:04:40):
Also, when we were chatting before, you were mentioning that
a very good friend of this program, John Bastian's, uh,
he just just.

S11 (01:04:47):
Brought to Australia about it was on the 28th of May.
He says. Yeah. Which was my mum's birthday. Yeah. So
that's how long he'd been in Australia.

S1 (01:04:54):
Okay. And of course, a couple of weeks later, yes,
I think the Beatles were in Adelaide the 12th and
13th of June.

S11 (01:04:59):
That's right.

S1 (01:04:59):
And do you know which day you went? That was
a Friday. And the Saturday.

S11 (01:05:02):
Would have been I'm pretty sure it was. The Saturday
night would have been the 13th. Yeah, yeah.

S1 (01:05:05):
So, uh, 50 years ago, minus a couple of days.

S11 (01:05:08):
Unbelievable.

S1 (01:05:10):
Oh, dude. Uh, now, this is without prompting. Do you
want to just sing us a little bit of a
Beatles song before we wrap up? How much time we got, Phil?

S10 (01:05:18):
Uh, yeah, we've just got about, uh, about half a minute.

S1 (01:05:21):
Go on. Ready? Just 30s of your favorite Beatles.

S11 (01:05:24):
If I fell in love with you, would you promise
to be true and help me understand? Cause I've been
in love before. And I found that love was more
than just holding hands.

S12 (01:05:40):
If I give my heart to you, I must be
sure from the very start. That you would love me
more than her.

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04 Jun 2025 - Includes a tribute to Wendy McDougall

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