07 May 2025

On FOCAL POINT:

• Aasha Rose is a PhD Student at the University of Southern Queensland.  Aasha warmly invited anyone to participate  in  research studying the relationship between braille literacy and the quality of life for people with blindness or low vision,
  contact ASHA AT
• Mia Gardiner, from Crime Stoppers Victoria, had news on celebrity impersonation scams and tips to best avoid chances of being caught out.
• Daisy Holt, Lead Guide Dog Mobility Instructor at See Differently, wrapped up their International Guide Dog Day celebrations and shared some incredible statistics regarding the day globally.
• Cory Alpert, former Biden White House staffer, reflected on the Australian Federal Election and the recent changes to Diversity, Equity and Inclusion policies in the United States.

Resources: 

Aasha Rose Survey in information: email: [e-mail] or go to 
https://surveys.unisq.edu.au/index.php/778262?newtest=Y&lang=en

Crimestoppers Victoria: http://www.crimestoppersvic.com.au

See Differently Guide Dogs Program: https://www.seedifferently.org.au/our-dogs/guide-dogs/ 

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

S1 (00:15):
Good evening and welcome to Focal Point here on Business Radio.
Radio 1190 7 a.m. Adelaide, online at Via Radio Theo,
Radio Digital Adelaide and Darwin for the Community Radio Plus app.
Look for Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide and also the Reading
Radio Network. Peter Greco on behalf of Phillip Vandepeer saying

(00:35):
wonderful to be here. Thank you for joining us. This
program come to you from Garner Land. And a big
shout out to Wendy McDougall listening in coming up this evening.
Very shortly we'll catch up to usher Rose, who's doing
a PhD into Braille and the quality of life impact.
We'll find out. Usher about that and you may be
invited to take part. Should you choose Mayor Gardner from

(00:58):
Crime Stoppers. Victoria will join us talking about celebrity fakes
and scams a very important topic. We'll catch up with
Daisy Holt from. See differently at the RSV. Wrapping up
international guide Dog Day. How did it go? What about internationally?
Some facts and figures and Corey Alpert will join us.
Corey was with the Joe Biden administration will give us

(01:21):
his reflections on the election here in Australia last weekend.
Also talking about some of the issues regarding diversity, equity
and inclusion. If you're listening through 1190 7 a.m. in
Adelaide at 8:00 for your listening pleasure. Lizzie and Sam
are here with Studio one. Just before we hear what's
on their program, a big congratulations and thank you to

(01:41):
Stephen Jolly and the talking tech team. Their last show
coming up this week, so not sure what will happen
in the future, but to Stephen and the team, congratulations
on talking tech. It's been a great success. Hopefully we
might catch up with Stephen in the next week or
two to talk about that. And also, the South Australian
branch of Blind Kids Australia have got their next event

(02:02):
coming up on May the 31st, a Saturday, 1230 at lunch.
It's at Byblos. Byblos, 123 O'Connell Street in North Adelaide.
If you'd like to go along, get in touch with
Kerry Skipworth by calling one 800 0360 1800036 zero. Let's find

(02:23):
out what's on studio one tonight.

S2 (02:27):
We give you all you want to know about audio description.

S3 (02:31):
We are joined by Francois Jacobs, who is one of
two audio description reviewers at SBS, as well as Victoria Hunt,
SBS manager for Access and Media Services.

S2 (02:42):
Join us at 8:00 for studio one.

S1 (02:45):
Why sure. Rose is a PhD candidate at the University
of Southern Queensland, doing something which I think is pretty cool.
That's a great to meet you. Thanks for your time.

S4 (02:53):
Thanks, Peter. Thanks for thinking that my research is pretty
cool because I do too.

S1 (02:57):
I think it's super cool. Tell us how and why
you've come up with this.

S4 (03:01):
Yeah. So the idea is around braille literacy and whether
there's an impact on quality of life. So being a
teacher and advisory vision teacher for over 20 years, I
came across a number of students who perhaps finished school
and didn't have great quality of life outcomes. The literature

(03:23):
tells us that there is plenty of evidence that good
literacy skills in print promote good quality of life, but
we actually don't know whether it's the same case for
people who use Braille.

S1 (03:36):
Now we're having a bit of a chat earlier in
the week, and you were saying that you think people
have got some sight. People with low vision maybe aren't
quite as badly off, if you like, because they are
able to kind of read the printed word.

S4 (03:48):
Yeah, that's right. But I certainly think that those who
are primarily Braille Braille readers and writers, you know, if
they don't have good access to to Braille. Then there
is some question about their quality of life outcomes as
a result. And I want to find out more about that.

S1 (04:07):
And the interesting thing from my point of view, actually,
is the fact that there hasn't been much research kind
of done in this area.

S4 (04:12):
No, it's really interesting. You know, I read over 3000
papers for my literature review, and we did not find
a validated measure of Braille literacy. So it was massive surprise.
I really thought that there would be something out there
that would be a way for us to measure Braille literacy,
so that then all I would need to do in

(04:32):
my PhD was go and use that and measure people's
quality of life through a validated quality of life. Measure
and match the two up, or as the case may be,
maybe not. However, because we didn't find a validated tool,
we we are having to develop one.

S1 (04:50):
And I guess that's where you come in or.

S4 (04:52):
That's where I.

S5 (04:53):
That's how that's how this all come about.

S4 (04:55):
Yeah. Yes. So we probably took a bit of a
sideways step to the PhD in terms of now needing
to to develop a validated tool. So it's all well
and good. And there are some papers out there that say,
oh yes, people with braille literacy have better quality of
life outcomes, but the braille literacy wasn't actually measured. So

(05:15):
we want to make sure that what we do or
what I do in this PhD is to measure that
braille literacy with a validated tool, so that we actually
know people's level of braille literacy, and that gives us
some scope to then match it up with quality of life.
And then, you know, perhaps say to the powers that be, hey,

(05:36):
we need to do a bit better here around improving
Braille literacy, because we actually have the evidence now.

S1 (05:42):
Sure, I've been around for a fair while, and there's
invariably every now and then this discussion regarding whether Braille
is needed these days. And when you've got Texas, Texas speech,
you've got all this audio stuff that's out there. Why
do we need Braille? I probably will get a little
bit of a Dorothy Dixer question, but you obviously don't
feel that way.

S4 (06:02):
No, I don't feel like that. And, you know, I'm
a I'm a teacher at heart. So my response often
when that question is asked of me as a, as
a Braille teacher is if you only ever hear the
words there their and they're.

S1 (06:19):
Mhm.

S4 (06:19):
Do you know how to spell which one and which
one goes where.

S1 (06:23):
Yeah.

S4 (06:24):
So I think you know I think around grammar and
punctuation and, and the unique English spelling. But I'm sure
that it's not just the case for English spelling. The
unique spelling of words we need, we need to either
see it or feel it.

S1 (06:38):
Yeah. I think as I say, most people could probably
identify with that who are Braille users and kind of
value it because of those sort of things. Even spelling
of names and even your name, dare I say Asha?

S4 (06:48):
Yes. That's right. And believe me, I've seen all sorts
so special about Peter?

S1 (06:53):
So for people who like your double A FHA, which
I think is fantastic because I love things that are
a little bit unique or in this case, quite unique.
So what are you wanting us to do? How can
we get involved and what are we going to be
required to do? Can you take us through that?

S4 (07:08):
Yeah, absolutely. There's going to be three parts to my PhD.
And the first part, as I've already alluded to, is
the development of a of a literacy tool. What we're
looking to do is, is produce a self-assessment, an adult
self-assessment of braille literacy. Because what we really want is
lots of participants. We want heaps of involvement. So if

(07:30):
we were to do something that was teacher led where
I had to run around the country teaching and leading
an assessment, we wouldn't get a lot of participants because
I wouldn't be able to get around this big country
of ours. So what we're looking to do is a
is a self-assessment. And so the very first thing is
to develop that self-assessment. So we need the braille experts.
We need the users and the researchers and the scholars

(07:53):
and the teachers to tell us what needs to be
in that Braille literacy tool. The second part from there
will then be to validate that. So that's where we
need the Braille users to help us out in ensuring
that it's a valid tool. Then we finally get to
the part which is quality of life. And then we'll
be looking for participants to not only do to complete

(08:16):
the self-assessment of Braille literacy, also the quality of life tool.
And then that's where we'll do some of that clever
data and stats stuff to see what what sort of
data we get out of out of those tools. The
very last part will then be some interviews with, with
people looking at what their responses were in those surveys and,

(08:42):
and why they're interesting. What were the barriers to learning Braille?
What worked really well? How come you have a fantastic
quality of life? How does Braille impact that? So really
getting into the the nitty gritty, almost individual stories and
then of course, putting it all together as a thesis.

S1 (08:59):
So you haven't really got much. You haven't really got
much ahead of you, have you.

S4 (09:02):
You're not a whole lot to do in the next
two and a half years.

S5 (09:05):
Okay.

S1 (09:06):
Well hopefully we get you back to call your doctor
when that all happens. So when you say quality of life,
I mean, you mean general quality of life, things like employment,
I guess even relationships, ability to be able to get
out and about, socialize, all that sort of almost intangible
sort of thing, but very, very.

S4 (09:23):
Importantly, independence, happiness, living life that that you want to live,
that you you hoped for having hope in your life. Yes.
All of those things.

S1 (09:34):
So, uh, with the first part of it you're looking for,
I think I'm not sure if you said the word expert, but,
you know, people who are very good at Braille. So
that might be a bit of a subjective question as
well as, you know, you might be better browser than
I am, if you know what I mean. Or vice versa.
And I might consider myself good at broad. How do
you kind of quantify that?

S4 (09:53):
Look, the very first question is, um, how do you
consider what do you consider as your expertise? And, and look,
it might be that your expertise is in formatting braille.
So not necessarily, you know, reading Braille on a finger,
but it might be that that you're a Braille teacher,
it might be that you're a Braille user. It might
be that you research Braille. So if you consider yourself

(10:16):
knowledgeable about Braille, we'd love to hear from you.

S1 (10:19):
Yeah. We're going around Australia on the Vision Australia radio network.
But by virtue of the fact we're online now so
people can get us anywhere, and we do have listeners
all over the world, is this just for people in
Australia at this stage?

S4 (10:30):
No, this part we really want to be global. We
really want to get the global aspect so that so
that we can say it's a globally validated tool at
the end of all of this.

S1 (10:41):
Yeah, I think, uh, this year Lori Brown Celebrated 200 years.
So I'm just still kind of coming to terms with
the fact that there hasn't been much done in this
area or sort of quantifiable research in this area. They
had 3000 papers to read. I mean, that's an extraordinary
load of work.

S4 (10:57):
Yeah, yeah, I like reading and I'm pretty quick at it,
thank goodness. But yes, I think it was, you know,
and again, that what was really interesting about the papers
that did end up being included was that there weren't
any from Australia.

S5 (11:10):
Okay.

S4 (11:11):
So yeah. And but thankfully we've got some fantastic PhD
students doing some amazing research in Australia at the moment
around blindness, low vision, not just me. So hopefully we'll
start seeing some of some of this evidence based practice
coming out.

S1 (11:26):
Yes, without giving too much away. So actually speaking earlier
in the week to a couple of people who were
doing some research into deaf blindness and not not so
much braille, but but again, there are things to be.
And thankfully we seem to get a lot on the
program that are doing research in this area, which is good.
And I guess, I guess maybe it's just part of
the way that the, the world is evolving, that more

(11:46):
and more people are interested in doing this sort of thing,
and that kind of cultivates even more interest.

S4 (11:50):
Yes, I agree. Absolutely.

S5 (11:52):
Now, what about as.

S1 (11:53):
Far as getting in touch with you and kind of
what what do you want them to do? Can we
sort of, you know, get that sort of crystallized?

S4 (12:01):
Yeah, sure. There's two ways of doing it. So the
first part, there are two ways. There is an online
survey interview that people can do without needing to contact me.
And I can give you the tiny.

S5 (12:12):
Okay.

S4 (12:12):
For that. Yeah. Um, so that is tiny URL. Dot
com forward slash survey 2025 as in 2025. You know,
so if people want to jump straight on they can
do that. That survey or that online interview would be fantastic.
And the other the other thing that we want to
do is actually interview some braille, um, experts as well, users, etc..

(12:37):
So at the end of that survey there is a
my email address. Otherwise, if people don't want to do
the survey, they can email me directly. Now they know
the spelling of my first name already. Peter. So it's
double A. O at Unisc dot. Edu. Unisc is in

(12:58):
university southern Queensland.

S1 (13:00):
Now when we talk about Brian of course that comes
in all shapes and sizes. That's a bit exaggerated, but
I mean there's different braille displays and people that might
use it with their iPhones or with their computer or
just indeed, you know, Braille note takes, etc.. Does that
kind of matter? What sort of format or what sort
of form of braille people use?

S4 (13:19):
Absolutely not. No. And we have been very mindful of
ensuring accessibility. So if there's any problems with accessibility, get
in touch and let me know. But we believe that
the surveys, etc. are incredibly accessible for people using any
type of braille display or voiceover. Over. Yep. Anything?

S1 (13:39):
They're just getting back to your original, uh, point about
the 3000 paper. So that's part of the the the
research that you have to do before you start your research.
Is it?

S4 (13:48):
Yeah, it sure is. So really, the whole idea of
PhD is that there's a gap in knowledge.

S1 (13:53):
Mhm.

S4 (13:54):
So I think there's a gap in knowledge. And the
gap in knowledge is we don't know enough about the
relationship between braille literacy and quality of life. Well I
have to go and figure out if somebody has already
filled that gap. So part of that is going and
finding all of those academic papers and government reports and
all the literature to find out. Or has somebody covered this? Oh,

(14:14):
no they haven't. Great, I get to.

S1 (14:17):
Yeah.

S4 (14:17):
What about for the next three years doing that.

S1 (14:19):
Yeah. Well, that sounds fantastic. What about in terms of, um,
people who want to take part, they have to be
18 or over.

S4 (14:25):
Yes they do. Yes. We've got ethics approval for adults. Um, so, yeah,
definitely need you to be an adult, please.

S1 (14:33):
And when they learned Braille, that doesn't matter, because of course,
you've got people who might have learned it from literally
from from zero or from a very young age, or
people that have might have learned Braille later on in life.
You know, when their situation changed.

S4 (14:45):
Yeah. For this first part, this first stage, it's anybody
with any experience with Braille. Once we get into the
sort of nitty gritty down the track a little bit,
we will actually be looking for people who learned Braille
at school. But otherwise at the moment it's absolutely everybody
who's got some sort of interest or knowledge about Braille.

S1 (15:03):
So it's not just Braille readers, or it's not just
people who are blind or have low vision that use Braille.
Not your your your net wider than that.

S4 (15:11):
Absolutely, yes. We want to hear from anyone who's got
anything to do with Braille. So if you're a Braille teacher,
a Braille transcriber, you're researching Braille? Absolutely. Anyone. We want
to hear from you.

S1 (15:21):
You touched on the fact that, well, there hasn't been
a lot of research in this area. No, there's a
lot of people now looking at things like this. So
do you sense that, you know, people are going to
be pretty willing to come forward and be part of
this kind of, you know, sort of help help someone
else in the future as well.

S4 (15:36):
Yeah. You know, I think one of the things you
said before was there's been a question for quite some
time about the the use of, you know, the usefulness
of Braille in the 21st century. And I think there
are people like yourself who have a story to tell,
who really value Braille in their lives and, and want
to ensure that the next generations of, of kids have
access to, to braille as a tool for learning.

S1 (15:58):
I guess I just hesitate about voicing my opinion too much,
just in case I'm speaking in an echo chamber. You
know that sometimes can be the thing that catches us out,
we think. Well, I think like this is common sense.
Everyone should think like this. And that might not necessarily
be the case.

S4 (16:13):
Yeah. Look, I totally agree. And I, you know, if
feel free to have a conversation with me about the
fact that you don't you've used you don't value Braille
in your life or you haven't found a use for it.
I'm all ears. And, you know, as I said to
you when we spoke earlier in the in the week,
I'm a, I'm an outsider here. I'm a sighted person,

(16:33):
so I really need the community to be able to
to pull this off. Really.

S1 (16:39):
I said, good luck with it. As I said at
the beginning, I think it's a really cool thing that
you're doing. I hope that you get lots of responses
because I guess with something like this, the more kind
of validity is added to your project by the amount
of responses that you get.

S4 (16:52):
Absolutely. Peter, thanks so much for your support.

S1 (16:55):
They just give us those details again and we can
put them up with our show notes. And people can
always call us at the radio station if they miss it.
1300 847 461 308474. Double six is our number. And what are
your details there Asha.

S4 (17:10):
So my email is a a s h a dot
r o s e at us dot e and that
tiny url is t I n y u 2025.

S1 (17:31):
I'm so glad to talk to you. We'll keep in touch.

S4 (17:33):
Thanks, Peter. Let's do that.

S1 (17:34):
That's the usher right there. What a fantastic initiative. And
let's hope that lots of people get on board. And
now we have people listening all around the world. So
if you're passionate about and I know many people are, uh,
get in touch with us and, um, help her with
her project. Let's catch up with Meg Gardiner from Crime Stoppers. Victoria,

(17:56):
some really interesting topics, always interesting topics, and always things
that we can learn so much from is on the line. Mayor,
good to catch up again.

S6 (18:03):
Hi Peter, thanks for having me again.

S1 (18:05):
I don't know where you get these topics from, but um,
you keep coming up with things that are very, very
interesting and I guess also very, very topical. And uh,
today or this evening is no different.

S6 (18:15):
Absolutely. So we're talking about something today that, you know,
a lot of people probably wouldn't even think of, but
it's happening, and it's happening more than people think, which
is a celebrity impersonation scam. And a lot of people
might not even understand how someone could possibly fall for it.
But trust me, it's really convincing how they're doing it
these days. And it's, you know, using AI, it's using

(18:40):
fast learning AI techniques, and it's just so much more
realistic and sophisticated than it used to be. And these
scams are easy to fall for.

S1 (18:48):
So this is someone that is well known, contacting sort
of the person in the street if you like, and saying,
you know, here I am. And then stories develop from there.

S6 (18:59):
Absolutely. So, so what it really is, is it's a
type of online fraud where scammers are going to pretend
to be famous as individuals, as you said. So that
could be actors, that could be musicians, athletes or influencers even.
And what they're trying to do is they're trying to
exploit people emotionally and financially. So they're going to create
a fake profile on dating apps or social media platforms,

(19:21):
and they're going to use stolen photos, either from the
internet or AI generated images that really closely resemble or
actually are images of these real celebrities. They're then going
to craft elaborate backstories and mimic the public persona of
that celebrity in order to build trust. And once that
bond is formed, the scammer usually invents a personal crisis.

(19:43):
Or as you can call a sob story. And it
could be something like a medical emergency, some sort of
travel or legal troubles, and then they're going to ask
for money or sensitive information. And because these victims are
often flattered, emotionally invested, they're unaware they're being manipulated. And
they very often do send this money or information that
they shouldn't.

S1 (20:03):
And the thing is that they're very clever, as in
these fraudsters in a sense, because, you know, they kind
of win you over first. They're very clever, kind of
winning you over. So even if you might be a
little bit suspicious or not, your guard isn't up. They
can kind of win you over and convince you.

S6 (20:18):
Absolutely. And scammers, they go to really great lengths to
make their impersonations convincing. So don't feel bad if you
do get scammed in this way because their goal is
to trick you. That is, you know that you've you've
done exactly what they've wanted, and they've done it in
such a way that they make it hard for you
to not believe them. They they might use AI tools
to generate really lifelike images that, you know, of them

(20:41):
holding up a written note that has, you know, your
name on it. So it might look realistic and it
might they might make it very believable. They might manipulate
existing photos of celebrities to appear more authentic or maybe
more timely, as in it was taken just in that
day or the day before. And their messages are often
really well written and very emotionally charged. They might reference

(21:03):
real life details about the celebrity to build credibility, and
some even create fake fan pages or use interviews of
screenshots to make the scam feel more legitimate. And they're
going to mirror the celebrity's personality traits, humor, vulnerability, charms.
And they might use AI to do this. And the
goal is to create that sense of intimacy, familiarity, and

(21:26):
build rapid, rapid trust. To create the illusion of a private,
exclusive connection that feels far too amazing special to question.

S1 (21:34):
Yeah, and often this is through a dating app or just,
you know, through your social media channels.

S6 (21:40):
Absolutely. So those are the ways that they're going to
contact you is through either Instagram, Facebook or, um, dating apps. Yeah.
For example hinge, Tinder. There might be on there saying
they just needed to talk to someone. They're so lonely because,
you know, they're so famous. These are the types of
things that they create.

S1 (21:58):
Yeah. Now you actually set a very interesting or a
couple of interesting stories. Do you want to share those
with us about two different, uh, individuals and, and kind
of from different fields as well?

S6 (22:07):
Absolutely. So one example of someone that fell for this
type of scam was a woman in France. So this
woman was contacted by someone claiming to be the actor
Brad Pitt, who is, you know, very well known, very
well loved. And the profile featured really professionally edited photos,
charming messages and engaging backstory that reflected his public life

(22:29):
and charitable interests. For example, and over several weeks, the
scammer messaged this woman daily built such a emotional intimacy
she really believed she was in a relationship. Eventually, he
claimed that he was dealing with a really sudden health
crisis by his bank. Accounts were temporarily frozen during the
divorce with Angelina Jolie. You know, he can't access his funds,

(22:51):
so she believed she was helping someone she really admired
and trust. She sent funds to assist him. Not a
little amount. It was $700,000. And then it wasn't until
she saw Brad Pitt, the real Brad Pitt, in the news,
appearing healthy with his real partner, that she began to
question the truth. And then, sadly, she did discover it
was all a scam, which was it's the best to

(23:12):
discover this in the end, but obviously she was left
quite emotionally and financially affected.

S1 (23:18):
And I guess that's the point, isn't it? It's not
just the financial impact that it can have. Obviously, you know,
that's easy for us to understand, but the emotional impact
as well, I guess you feel like your trust has
been betrayed.

S6 (23:29):
Absolutely. And yes, as you're saying, you're totally right. Most
of the time these scams are about money and the
ultimate goal is getting money. However, some scams are, you know, firstly,
they are going to hurt you emotionally. That's something that
they I don't think they care if they do it,
but it's always the byproduct. But they also aim sometimes
to gather personal details. This can be your address, identification

(23:51):
documents or financial account information, which they can then steal
your money with or steal your identity. Sell it on
the black market and in the. In the other case
that I have here, which is a man from the
UK became really emotionally involved with someone claiming to be
pop sensation Mariah Carey. The impersonator shared vulnerable stories about

(24:12):
the loneliness of fame, something that I mentioned that they
do and once the trust was built. This man was
sending her money and also personal details. So you don't
know the extent of the damage this scam has done
until a very long time after. Because it causes. Yet,
like I said, not just emotional financial damage, but emotional
harm because they're going to struggle with feelings of shame,

(24:35):
of betrayal. But and they might not tell others because
they might feel quite ashamed.

S1 (24:39):
I mean, with that Mariah Carey. So that kind of
makes sense. So I think over the time Mariah has
kind of spoken openly about, you know, some of her
issues with the mental health, etc.. So you kind of think, well, yeah, maybe,
you know, it's not all glitz and glamour. There is
these times of loneliness. And they've reached out to me
to kind of be a companion, you know, that, that kind,
that that's kind of believable.

S6 (24:59):
Absolutely. And these scammers are not going for people in relationships.
So they're trying to contact people that are vulnerable in
that they're lonely. They're going to be looking for people
on dating apps. They're going to be looking for people
that might not be very tech savvy. So this is,
you know, people generally from 60 to 65 years old.
Those are or 65 plus as well. There's a lot

(25:20):
of sort of disparity between the amounts of money lost
in that age group. So I think it's really important
to know that they will be looking for vulnerable people
and and it won't be their fault, you know, like
it's we need to create a different sort of attitude
when it comes to this and not blame people for
falling for it because they're so sophisticated these days. And,

(25:42):
you know, all we can do is offer support and,
you know, very, very sensitive conversations with people that are
going through this because, yeah, it's something that is really,
really tough on the individual.

S1 (25:52):
I don't expect you to sort of be in the
minds of some of these, uh, bad actors, if you like,
but and I say bad actors, people who act badly
and bad actors if you think Brad Pitt's one. But,
I mean, what's that kind of, uh, modus operandi? Do
they kind of, you know, contact so many people that,
you know, someone's going to say yes or someone's going
to be hooked in. Is that kind of their method
of operation?

S6 (26:11):
Well, look, you're definitely right in saying that they would
be reaching out to endless people and they're just waiting
for someone to take the bait, you know? But there
are ways to spot a celebrity impersonations, but only if
you know what you're looking for. So I would say
the red flags that you really want to watch out
for are things like unsolicited contact from a celebrity. And

(26:31):
these are normally going to be through unofficial or unverified accounts,
because if you're an Instagram user, you know that people
with a blue tick means that they're verified. So if
they don't have that and it's Brad Pitt, then you
should maybe be questioning the legitimacy of it. They're also
going to fast track any sort of emotional connection. So
they're going to try and build a romantic or very

(26:53):
close connection. And they're going to do it quickly before
you can really think about what you're doing. They're going
to try and take it to that next level.

S1 (27:01):
They're all up at the moment in a sense, aren't you?
You're kind of caught up with the, uh, you know,
the early relationship and everything's kind of rosy.

S6 (27:08):
Absolutely. They're going to try and sort of take sweep
you off your feet, and also so that you're not
thinking clearly. You're not making good decisions because they're going
to be telling you things. They're going to be saying
they love you. Love bombing you, and they'll be telling
you stories. But you need to make sure that these
these stories aren't sort of highly polished narratives that don't
really align with known facts. For example, if they're telling you,

(27:31):
you know, like, oh, I, I have a wife. Yes. But,
you know, it's not a real marriage. It's all for publicity.
This is probably something that you're you're going to question,
because the known fact is that this person is married,
and this scammer will be saying this so that they
feel like you can be in a relationship with them
as well. They're going to request money as well, which
is something, you know, a celebrity probably doesn't need your money.

(27:52):
And exactly. And they're going to request your money in
a very strange way, potentially through gift cards. Sensitive personal
details might be asked early on in the relationship as well.
So ways to protect yourself, I would say never send
money or personal information to someone you've only interacted with
online If Brad Pitt messages you and says, I want
to meet up and you go to the cafe and

(28:14):
there he is, there's Brad Pitt. Go for it. You know,
I would do it. Who wouldn't? But if you if
you're only speaking to someone online, there's always an excuse
why they can't video call. There's always an excuse why
they can't speak over the phone. Then you really need
to be asking yourself if this is real. Because they
can't they can't verify their identity. So you shouldn't verify

(28:34):
their identity to yourself, you know? So always ask trusted
friends or family for a second opinion of someone like
this reaches out. And if something feels off, it really
probably is. So always report suspicious activity to the relevant
social media platform, whether that be dating, dating apps or
whether that be, you know, um, Instagram. And then you

(28:55):
can also report it to places like Scamwatch, Mia.

S1 (28:58):
Uh, obviously it's one of those things where, you know,
hopefully that, you know, most people have got someone in
their life that they can trust. But, uh, you know,
there'd be people that died. But I guess speaking to
friends or acquaintances or, you know, someone that you can trust,
that that would be really important. Because if you kind
of touched on it at the beginning and in past conversations,
it's very hard to come out and talk about this

(29:19):
because you feel so silly or so ashamed or you
feel like you've been fooled and, you know, none of
us want to think like that.

S6 (29:26):
Exactly. And I think that going to if you have
a friend, for example, that you fear this might be
happening to, that might be a victim of this type
of celebrity impersonation scam or even just a romance scam
in general. You've got to approach that conversation with empathy
and without judgment, because a lot of the time these
people aren't going to want to admit it to themselves

(29:47):
that they're a victim of a scam, whether that be for,
you know, their fear of of judgment or their shame
or the fact that they, you know, really like this person,
they don't want it to be fake. Helping someone come
around to this fact, to this information is difficult. And
you can't push them, but rather maybe say, you know,
I've heard a few things about celebrity impersonation scams online.

(30:09):
Would you be open to discussing this? And then if
they don't like to hear it, they're not happy. You
can say, okay, just know that I'm here. If you
ever do want to talk about anything. Don't close that
door on the conversation. Let them come to you.

S1 (30:21):
There's a lot of psychology involved. This isn't there. And
as you say, if you're feeling vulnerable or if you're
kind of being pressured to make a decision quickly, that's
the sort of thing that can often lead to the
wrong decision being made.

S6 (30:32):
Absolutely. And, you know, we've got this information on our website.
We also have a whole sort of how to, um,
when it comes to speaking to people who you think
might have been a victim of this type of scam.
So we've got a whole scam safety hub where lots
of different types of scams. We talk about them, the
tips on how to avoid them, how to recognize them.

(30:53):
And it might not be for you, but someone in
your family might be more vulnerable when it comes to
the online world. So share it around the way we
really beat these scammers and we become scam hardened as
a society is we talk about it. Education and knowledge
is our best defense.

S1 (31:08):
Well, not having people like you to raise the awareness
on programs like this. If people do want to find
out more, where can we go to to get that information?

S6 (31:16):
All of this information, plus much more is on the
website and that is Crimestoppers. Com and if you do
want to give us a call and make a report
about suspicious or criminal behavior activity, then you can call
us at 1800 333 000.

S1 (31:32):
But yeah most enlightening again, you're certainly, I guess in
a funny sort of way, you're showing us a bad
side of the world. But I guess if you're forewarned,
you can be forearmed, which can be a good thing
as well. So certainly to be aware of these things
that are out there, it's, it's, uh, a very good thing.
So thank you for spending some time with us.

S6 (31:50):
No worries. Thank you so much for having me, Peter.

S1 (31:52):
Yeah. Garden there from Crime Stoppers Victoria one 802 3000.
And all those details as always up with our show notes.
You're listening to Focal.

S7 (32:01):
Point on beating Australia 11:07 a.m. via radio, Digital and
online at via radio org.

S1 (32:11):
Last week was International Guide Dog Day. Let's find out
how it went and speak to lead instructor at sea
differently the RSPCA. Daisy Holt. Daisy. First time we've spoken. Welcome.
Thank you for your time.

S8 (32:22):
Thank you so much for having me.

S1 (32:24):
How did the day go?

S8 (32:25):
It was a fantastic day. The weather was perfect and
we had loads of people coming past. Some guide dog
handlers with their guide dogs as well as some training
puppies as well. So it was a great day.

S1 (32:37):
For people listening around Australia that might not know Adelaide.
You're in the Rundle Mall, which is a high traffic
area for people. So a great way to kind of
get your message across to the broader public.

S8 (32:46):
Absolutely. We had lots of different people walking past. It
was great and we were right on the lunch hour,
so it was fantastic.

S1 (32:52):
Tell us about who was there apart from yourself, Daisy.

S8 (32:55):
We had our marketing team there and actually some of
our admin staff as well. Um, just because we were
talking a lot about volunteers. Uh, we are in great
need of volunteers at the moment, so we were really
trying to get some people interested in helping us out
with our dogs.

S1 (33:08):
Yeah, we'll come back to that in a second. What
about in terms of, uh, dogs and, uh, all the
dogs and all that sort of stuff? Just about what
was happening there?

S8 (33:15):
Yeah, we had actually got a dog trainer and dog instructor,
academic instructor as well, and we had a few dogs
with us of different ages. So some in training and
some younger ones that have just come into training with us.
And we also had some of our guide dog handlers there, um,
with their guide dogs popping past and just enjoying the day. And, um,

(33:36):
our assistance dog team were there as well with their
assistance dogs, which was great to show support. And we
actually also ran a puppy class, so we had some
young dogs as well with their volunteers up and down
the mall doing some training.

S1 (33:48):
Okay, so people would have seen that at first hand
because I guess you see the person with the guide dog,
you think, oh, that's pretty cool, but you probably don't.
Most people probably wouldn't be aware of what goes into
it to get them to that point.

S8 (33:59):
Exactly. And that they're not buying guide dogs, they actually
have to train. So they're just as interested in the
in the bronze pigs and the pigeons and all the
rest of it as any other puppy would be.

S1 (34:10):
I guess in a sense, it's kind of cool that. Yeah,
or that the public is seeing the guide dog in
its early stages because as you say, that there's a
a bit of training to go from there to where
they are seen out and about, sort of doing their
work with their with their actual person that they're going
to work with.

S8 (34:25):
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. And they start right from eight
weeks old, um, doing some training. Obviously it gets sort
of more challenging, I guess, as they get older and
more diverse. Um, so yeah, they get to do lots
of different things, like getting prepared to go on public transport,
on escalators and travelators and all of that sort of
stuff as well.

S1 (34:42):
And is that where the kind of volunteer callout comes in?

S8 (34:45):
Yeah. So we have, um, a few different volunteer roles,
but definitely the, the volunteers that have them from a
young age for a year. Obviously that's quite a time commitment. So, um, yeah,
they are sort of the ones that, that we're looking for,
but we are looking for people in all of our
roles at the moment. So, um, happy with any type
of volunteering?

S1 (35:02):
Well, give us a bit more idea of the kind of, uh, well,
commitment and I guess the kind of thing they do.
I know I've spoken to a number of people in
the past, and it's a great thing to be doing,
and I guess we've got to sort of be, uh,
sort of full disclosure, it's a hard thing often to
have the dog back at the end of that 12 months.

S8 (35:17):
Well, yes, absolutely. But I guess most of our volunteers
have in mind the work that the dog goes to do.
So obviously they will go and help someone, either as
a guide dog or as an assistance dog, and that
is something that gives a lot back. So although you
have to give the puppy back, you didn't get to
see what that dog does. And we do a, um,
a demonstration of their work at the end of training.

(35:39):
But certainly all of the roles, I guess, involve that
component of having to say goodbye. But we have volunteers
in lots of different roles for the entire life of
the dog. So we have our breeding volunteers that help
us with our breeding stock. And so the people that
have the brood actually have the puppies in the home
they birthed in the home, and they live in the home.
And that that is a massive undertaking because they have

(36:02):
to come in two, eight weeks old. So, um, we're
always looking for people to help us out with that. Um,
and then we're looking for volunteers to be puppy educators,
which is the component you were talking about, Peter, when
they go from eight weeks until 12 to 14 months
and they do all of their socialisation training. So we
really want them to just experience the world, learn to

(36:22):
do the basic skillsets, like walking on a on a
nice leash and, um, learning all of the socialization things
that we want the dog to be prepared for. Sounds, smells,
being in busy environments. Yeah. Um, and the volunteers do
need to attend classes that are held by our puppy
education supervisors. And then when the dog finishes their training,
they actually, um, come into school at our, um, school

(36:45):
at Gillies Plains, and we look for bed and breakfast
boarders to house them when. So we're quite lucky that
our dogs live in homes for their whole life. We
don't have kennels and so we have these bed and
breakfast boarders and we call them that because they bring
the dog to school in the morning. We train them
for the day and then they come and pick him
up at night. So they have him for the night
and then on weekends. Um, so that's also a type

(37:07):
of volunteering. The last one is, um, emergency boarders, which
help us out with, um, any boarding that the dogs require,
whether they're puppies, training dogs or even, uh, guide and
assistance dogs later in life.

S1 (37:19):
That's an interesting kind of approach, if you like, that.
The dogs are kind of always in homes. So I
guess that's kind of part of the assimilation. So they're
always in that situation because when they go up, if
you like, they're always going to be in a home
as well.

S8 (37:31):
That's right. So it makes our life a lot easier
because it's not always in a home. So we're very
aware of their home behaviour and they have to sort
of obviously stay in a home their whole life. So
it makes it really easy without having we're not having
to put them in kennels and then go back into
a home. So there's a lot of benefits for that. Um,
obviously it's not always possible if the school is a
bit bigger, the school, but we're lucky enough we're still

(37:52):
able to do that in our school.

S1 (37:53):
Yeah. Yeah. Tell us a bit more about the people
that brave the dog. So what sort of setup would
they need at home for that sort of thing? They'd
have to have a special setup.

S8 (38:01):
Or we do provide the equipment for the all the like,
scales and all of those sorts of things that they need,
but they do obviously need to, um, regulate the home
to be at a particular temperature. So they have pretty, um,
minimal thermoregulation. So they need to be kept warm. So
if it's winter time, that can be a bit heavy
on the heater. Um, and we do help set up

(38:22):
the room, but they do have to have um, area
for the dog. The dogs have to be supervised pretty much,
and the entire time. And we also have some training
we do in the nest when the puppies are only
little to start to teach them some of the things
that we want as adult dogs.

S1 (38:37):
Oh well, that must be an amazing experience, I would think.
I mean, I kind of get the puppy educator thing.
You kind of got this puppy who's kind of out
and about sort of thing, but, uh, kind of bring
them into the world, if I can put it that way.
That must be. That must be quite emotional, I think.

S8 (38:51):
Oh, it's hugely rewarding. I think the good thing about
that one is by the time they're eight weeks old
and you've got, say, eight, eight week old puppies, you're
sort of ready to give them up. So it makes
that part of it easier. But yes, absolutely. They all
have um, they all have benefits, all the volunteer roles.
And there's always, you know, goods and bads. And the
breeding component is fantastic. But obviously you're dealing with very

(39:11):
young little puppies. So there's all elements of it. But yeah,
it was so grateful to all of our volunteers. I
do like an incredible job in any role because whether it's, um,
taking them on for a year or six months for
the breeding component, they're all putting a huge amount of
work into their dogs, and we are very grateful for them.

S1 (39:27):
They're a big commitment of time. What about in terms
of support? I'm thinking as far as you know, if
something goes wrong or. Yeah, you know, because I guess
we can all be a bit, uh, stressed if things
aren't going the way expected. There's always someone on call
to always.

S8 (39:42):
Yeah.

S1 (39:42):
Help me, help me.

S8 (39:43):
Absolutely. We have an emergency line for any sort of
urgent medical issues. And then we obviously have our staff
that are available and each each staff member has an
allocation of dogs that they look after. So there's always
someone that that will come and help if needed. Yeah.

S1 (39:57):
That would be very, very, uh, kind of comforting to
know that, uh, there's a safety blanket there just in case.

S8 (40:02):
Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.

S1 (40:04):
So what sort of age would you know whether a
dog's going to make it or not? Can you kind
of talk, you know, just in general terms about that
sort of thing?

S8 (40:11):
Yeah, absolutely. We do lots of different temperament testing throughout
the dog's life. Um, we generally sort of have a
good idea about the time they sort of pass through
that teenage adulthood. So we would say around the 12
months we generally have an okay idea. Um, but lots
of things can happen during training. And we like I said,
we do lots of temperament testing throughout. So sometimes we

(40:31):
can find out quite young that, you know, this dog's
just not the right fit for the work. And sometimes
it can take up to sort of 14, 15 months
for us to sort of put them through training and
then go, you know, like the dog's really not enjoying this.
And that's what it's a lot about. There's been a
lot of conversations in the past about failing and withdrawals
and that sort of stuff. But really what we're trying
to do is to bring dogs into this work that

(40:53):
enjoy the work and get something out of it. And
so it's not about passing or failing, but rather about
it being a good fit for that dog and the
temperament that they have. So it can be at any
really at any time throughout their life. And we do
try and keep a really close eye on how the
dog is, is coping in the training and that it
is it is successful for them and it's bringing something
good and positive into their life.

S1 (41:14):
It's a very good philosophy to have. I know over
the years, Daisy, and probably before your time in a sense,
but there's been a lot of work that's gone into
genetics to kind of make sure, I guess, both physically
and emotionally, that the dogs that are being bred and
are coming into into the world, if I could put
it that way, are kind of as good as they
can be with the genetic background that they can, can

(41:36):
be traced with.

S8 (41:36):
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. We have what we call guiding lines
in our in our breeding stock. So we have a
lot of breeding stock that has proven work into the
guide dog world. And obviously now we bring into it
also our assistance dog program, which is a younger program
for us. But yeah, we do. We do breed from
dogs to have specific, I guess, temperament for the work

(41:57):
and that have have been proven to do the work
and sort of enjoy it. Not to say we don't
sometimes bring external lines in, but we are quite fortunate.
We have a really good breeding colony and also we
do breed before sometimes for, um, the size of the
dog or the color, depending on what clientele we have
and what we need in our in our colony to
provide the services to our clients.

S1 (42:18):
It's a big job, big responsibility. But I guess the
rewards is so huge. At last Wednesday, the 30th of
April was International Guide Dog Day. Can you give us
a bit of a perspective on International Guide Dog Day?
I mean, I see definitely celebrating the Rundle Mall, but
sort of kind of worldwide. What. Tell us a bit
about the day.

S8 (42:34):
Yeah. So, um, it's great to have a day every
year where we sort of stop and think about the
fantastic work that our guide dogs do. And it's an
incredible work. And we actually we are part of the
International Guide Dog Federation. And every year they do some
statistics on the dogs. And so I do have the
statistics from the 31st of December 2024 that I could give, um,

(42:55):
that give you a bit of an idea of how
big the guide dog world is. We have found it.
At the end of December 2024, we had 18,682 guide
dogs currently working worldwide. So that's incredible to think about.
All of those dogs working in helping someone with vision loss.
And over the year of 2024, 2893 guide dogs were trained,

(43:19):
which again, crazy to think about. And then we have
this is a great one talking about volunteers 46,520 individual
volunteers giving their time and experience to help all of
the GDF members. That's the International Guide Dog Federation organizations
around the world. So some some really huge statistics to

(43:40):
think about. And the last one is we had 8974
guide dog puppies, started guide dog training during 2024, which is.

S1 (43:50):
That huge numbers aren't they? I guess you don't kind
of till you hear them. You don't kind of appreciate
how big the quote unquote movement is.

S8 (43:57):
Absolutely. And it's it's worldwide. And and there's so many
people that benefit from a guide dog mobility throughout the world.
And it's a very specific type of mobility, but it
makes such a big difference to our clients. And we're
so proud of of the work that not only we do,
but that they continue with their guide dogs and their
we're able to.

S6 (44:14):
Provide.

S8 (44:15):
That to our to our clients every day. So it
was a fantastic day thinking about that and seeing some
of the the guide dog handlers come past and, and um,
you know, getting their with their guide dog and being
able to access, you know, such a busy area of
the city with their guide dogs safely. So it was
a fabulous day.

S1 (44:33):
I'll grab some contact details for you if people know
someone who might like to volunteer or indeed themselves might
like to volunteer. And I guess when they contact you,
you can kind of work out what area of the
sort of time that they would be involved with, what
might suit them best. But what about a day like this?
It's kind of great to get the message out there,

(44:53):
and I'm sure there'll be a lot of people that
when they put the hair on the pillow that night,
would be very grateful for what they've had, because I've
spoken to clients who've had five, six, seven dogs in
their lives, which is that's extraordinary when you think about that.
Like that.

S8 (45:07):
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's, um, it's something that generally
is for a lifetime and, you know, that they can
support them. Different dogs, obviously with different personalities, but they
are supported through that their whole life. And, um, absolutely
with clients they can get in touch with us and,
and also volunteers and anyone that is interested in the
work that we do, um, on our website. And there's

(45:28):
lots of information on that and also on social media.

S1 (45:31):
Of course, uh, technology can do a lot of things,
but I reckon the guide dog might be here for
a while to come here. Daisy I'm not sure what
you think, but.

S8 (45:37):
Yeah.

S1 (45:37):
I don't think they're going to make a, uh, an
AI enhanced guide dog or a guide dog just yet.

S8 (45:44):
No, we get we get a lot of people talking about,
you know, the bionic eye and, um, driverless cars and
stuff like that. And I think there's a place for that,
and I hope that our clients can benefit from that.
And if anyone can get, you know, uh, a cure
to see. And that's what they want to do. That's fantastic.
But I think our dogs bring something unique that no one,
no other bit of equipment can give. And that's, you know,

(46:05):
the love and the partnership and the companionship that that
dog gives is just something that you can't, you know,
make out of technology. So yeah, I agree, I think
that God is going to be here to stay. And yeah,
we're just really pleased to be able to provide that service.

S1 (46:18):
So we spoke to Millie Hart a couple of weeks
ago about cricket, coincidentally, and Millie talked about the fact
that she's got a see differently rsb guide dog and
the difference it's made to her life as a very
young adult, the the confidence that gives her to be
able to getting out and about is independent, you know,
person for the first time in her life. I mean,
that was very, very powerful.

S8 (46:38):
I actually trained really. So. Yeah. Yeah. It was. I
listened to that and it was fantastic to hear it. Yeah.

S1 (46:43):
Yeah, that was great. And the girls did well at
the cricket as well, which is great. So our time together. Yeah.
If people do want to get in touch, how can
we get in touch with you?

S8 (46:52):
I'll tell you, the website is probably the number one
place to go. It's, um, w-w-w-what see differently. You can
also find us on Facebook. It's definitely with the Royal
Society for the blind and also on Instagram. Same with
the Royal Society for the blind. So we're on all
the socials.

S1 (47:07):
We'll put those details up with our show notes. That's it.
Great to meet you. Keep up the great work. Well,
you know that some of the stats are kind of
blowing my mind, so I'm still trying to get my
head around them to work out how important the role is.
But keep it up and thank you for spending some
time with us.

S8 (47:22):
Thank you so much for having me.

S1 (47:23):
That's Daisy Holt, the lead instructor at, uh, definitely RSV.
Talk about International Guide Dog Day. Well, I'm delighted indeed.
It's a privilege to welcome to the program Corey Alpert,
who was a staff member with President Joe Biden. Corey.
Thank you so much. And welcome to Vision Australia Radio.

S9 (47:41):
Thanks so much for having me.

S1 (47:42):
Now, uh, the federal election, uh, last Saturday in Australia,
a bit of a landslide to Labour. Uh, what are
your thoughts there, particularly regarding what it might mean for
us and the relationship between us and the US?

S9 (47:55):
So obviously, as your listeners know, this is a historic
election result. We're still waiting for, uh, final numbers. But
obviously Labor's won a massive victory here. And I think
the the thing that strikes me about this, uh, result
is it seems like it's part of a trend that's
happening in 2025 across, uh, really across the Western world.

(48:18):
You know, the trend in 2024 elections was about kicking
out incumbents, uh, except for two, uh, exceptions, most countries
that had elections in 2024 24 ousted their incumbent parties,
either losing their majority and going into minority government, or
entirely losing power outright. This happened not just across the

(48:38):
Western world, but in Africa and South America and Asia
as well. So it seems like the theme of elections
in 2025 is really about how countries are reacting and
responding to this new age of Donald Trump. Um, to
the economic uncertainty, especially as people look at their retirement portfolios,

(49:01):
their super portfolios here in Australia, uh, as they look
at Trump's immigration policies, as they look at the sort
of illiberal democracy that this sort of post-liberal world that
Donald Trump seems to be creating. Uh, and I think
they're they're assessing two things. One is, uh, how much
they want to emulate that. And I think that comes

(49:23):
into some of the dynamic where you have had voters, uh,
who were looking especially at Peter Dutton and thinking, uh,
you know, we don't want someone who emulates that, you know,
even though I don't think Dutton by his nature is
particularly Trumpy, but he looked at the result of US
election in 2020 and decided that that was going to

(49:45):
be his path to victory. Um, and Poilievre in Canada
did much the same thing. You know, they both looked
last November and said, there's going to be a global
wave of, you know, this sort of faux populism that
Trump hawks. And that's going to be the thing that
carries the day. Now the trend turns out to be
that countries are reacting to that because governing has consequences.

(50:07):
And those consequences don't seem to be positive coming out
of Donald Trump's America right now. The second point that
I'll make here is because of what Trump is doing.
Countries around the world are looking really at their place
in the world, you know, are they? And I think
this this is very clear here in Australia, where Australians
are trying to figure out their place in the world. Um,

(50:30):
are they a close ally of the United States? Um,
and are they, uh, to borrow a relatively crass term
that that's been picked up a few times, a floating
aircraft carrier in the South Pacific, or is Australia going
to march on a more independent path? And I think
that is the subtext for a lot of the, uh,
the conversations that have that have been had in Australia

(50:52):
in recent weeks, uh, is how close does anyone want
to be to Donald Trump's America and to America in general? Uh,
and it seems although, you know, it's not I don't
it's never going to appear as a number one thing
on the survey, but I think that's a conversation that
that people are having in much smaller ways is what
is the sort of grand geopolitical space that Australia needs

(51:17):
to occupy. And it seems like the answer to that is, uh,
to move in a more independent direction.

S1 (51:22):
Corey, speaking speak about some of the things that Trump
has done. What about I think it's on the 11th
day of his presidency, the executive order regarding diversity, equity
and inclusion. What did you make of that?

S9 (51:33):
Donald Trump largely um, or put pushed a lot of
his campaign in 2024 on these culture wars? Uh, so,
you know, he ran, I think, $200 million worth of ads, uh,
attacking trans people. He has spent a lot of his, uh,
political capital and political space really trying to denigrate and

(51:58):
go after what he sees as things that are antithetical
to his his view of power. So, you know, early on,
it was, uh, you know, attacking Biden administration policies and, frankly,
policies that were intact in the first Trump administration that
had been enacted by, uh, President Obama. It was rescinding

(52:20):
all these policies that encouraged more diverse hiring, uh, encouraged
programs that are funded, programs that were able to reach Americans, uh, in,
you know, more diverse ways. And a lot of it
really seemed to come from the ethos that he campaigned on,
which was a sense of grievance, that there are other people, uh,

(52:44):
somewhere out in America who have a better deal than the,
quote unquote, true Americans, so that the people that Donald
Trump sees as his supporters are the, quote unquote, true Americans,
and that there are people around the country and around
the world who are getting a better deal than they are,
even if they have a pretty good life. So this is,
I think, part of, uh, a sort of a larger

(53:07):
strategy to, in his mind, even the playing field, even
though these policies are the things that were actually evening
the playing field for people, uh, who were and have
historically been excluded from public assistance, from the halls of power,
or even just from hearing about things that their own
government is doing with their own tax dollars and in
their own name.

S1 (53:27):
What do you think the true American thinks of it now,
like on reflection?

S9 (53:31):
So this is where it's a tricky moment. American politics only,
I think at the as of the last poll, which
at this point was a couple of weeks ago. So
it's difficult to know how much this has moved. But
only 2% of Trump voters right now regret their vote.

S1 (53:47):
Um, wow.

S9 (53:48):
Now, that said, of the people who didn't vote now,
for your listeners in Australia, we don't have compulsory voting
in America. So, um, something like only 65% of Americans
voted in the last presidential election, so 35% of Americans didn't. Now,
of those, uh, of those 35%, uh, 60% right now

(54:09):
are saying they, uh, they regret not voting and wish
they had voted for, uh, for Kamala Harris or at
least voted against Donald Trump. So I think for the
people who are already in Trump's camp, whom the people
that that he has gone after or the people that
he has collected, more or less people who are, uh,
under his coalition, who have put something of themselves personally

(54:32):
into being Trump voters because at this point, that is
a social status. That is a political group in the
United States. But the people who have put something of
themselves in that space, these are people who are it's
almost um, uh, you know, they have too much of
themselves invested to go back. So, uh, you know, it's

(54:53):
creating a tricky situation where I think it's going to
take quite a lot for those people to, to move
against Trump. But I think you're seeing the people who
were sort of softer, the people who didn't vote. I
think you're beginning to see them moving quite a bit
and moving in a direction, uh, against Trump, especially, uh,

(55:14):
as these tariffs begin to take hold.

S1 (55:16):
Without wishing to sound too sanctimonious, the thing that I
found quite incredulous was that, you know, organizations like Blackrock,
some of the big banks, etc. kind of got on
board with that scrapping of Dei. I mean, haven't they
got like a social conscience?

S9 (55:31):
Uh, yes and no. I mean, look, the mo a
lot of these big corporations, what they're trying to do is,
you know, they're reacting to the idea that now the
US does not necessarily have a leader who sees himself
as a democratically elected leader and is thus subject to
the sovereignty of the people. There's now someone who sees

(55:53):
himself as a king. And so these these companies and
these CEOs are trying to curry favor with the king.
The CEOs of a bunch of these companies have, uh,
come out and gave interviews where they've said, look, if
the cost of doing business is us getting rid of
these programs, and that means that we're going to be
able to get a better deal in the sanctions or, uh, that,

(56:16):
you know, Trump is going to, uh, you know, facilitate
a deal that's advantageous or, you know, he's going to
do whatever that is what these companies are reacting to.
They're not acting in the best interests of the country.
They're not acting in the best interests of even their
own consumers. As far as consumer prices are going, they're

(56:36):
acting in a way, quite rationally, in the sense that
they're doing everything they can to maximize their own profit
in the way that they're doing. That is by huddling
around the person in power in that way. It's it's
very similar to what Putin did with the oligarchs in
Russia in the early 2000, where he framed their power

(56:56):
as a subset of his. And in order for them
to continue making the money, they needed to continue to
appease him and whatever whims he wanted to go on.

S1 (57:04):
Do you fear for the immediate future? I guess long
term hope we kind of revert back to some sort
of quote unquote normality. But do you fear for the
next 2 or 3 years in particular?

S9 (57:14):
Oh, absolutely. I mean, look, I come from a poor
part of the United States in the rural South, a
part of the United States that is mostly black. You know,
that is already where life is already quite difficult and
has been for a very long time. These things aren't theoretical. Uh,
you know, what Trump is doing and frankly, what Republicans

(57:36):
are doing in Congress, uh, and what they're not doing
is going to have a real significant consequences on Americans lives.
You know, where these die cuts are. You know, funny,
I think, in some ways to to a lot of
these Trump people. But, you know, right now, the these
cuts on medical research are largely stemming from a similar

(58:00):
impulse that medical research is somehow die or academic research
or somehow die. That is going to mean that fewer
people have access to high quality medicine. Yeah, it's going
to mean that fewer people have access to benefits like
Meals on Wheels, which means not not to sort of

(58:21):
bring this very, very far down. But that means that
as a result of things that Donald Trump is doing,
that in his mind are about grievance. And, you know,
in a certain way, I think he finds almost fun.
People are dying. This has actual life and death consequences.
And I think the thing that is most jarring to

(58:43):
me is just how cruel it all is. That that
seems to be the point. And I think that's being
repeated in his immigration policy as well, where the the
point is to be cruel. You know, you think about the,
the case of, um, uh, Kilmer, uh, the, uh, the
American national, uh, who held legal status against deportation, who

(59:06):
was deported to an entirely different country. He has no
connection to El Salvador, was not from El Salvador, was
not fleeing from El Salvador, was living in the United
States under legal protection, and was sent to what amounts
to a concentration camp. And then the Trump administration, in
defying a court order, seemed to delight in the punishment
of it all. This seems to be their governing, the

(59:28):
governing philosophy. And that that, I think, is the thing
that haunts me the most right now.

S1 (59:32):
All right. We'll have to leave the I'm not sure
how long you're in Australia for, but it'd be good
to catch up with you down the track.

S9 (59:37):
Sounds good. I'll be here for a couple of years.

S1 (59:39):
All right. Well, we definitely will. Corey, thank you so,
so much. Really appreciate it.

S9 (59:42):
Thank you. Have a good one.

S1 (59:43):
That's a Corey Albert there who was part of the
staff of President Joe Biden. Well a bit of an
interesting but also a bit of a worrying perspective on
the presidency at the moment of Donald Trump. I wanna
describe show of the week. It's coming up this Tuesday evening,
10 p.m. SBS Movie Channel Viva Las Vegas, starring Elvis

(01:00:08):
Presley and Ann Margaret Lucky. His chasing cars and girls.
But it's got to find a way to bring back
rusty to his side. That is coming up this Tuesday evening,
10 p.m., SBS Movie Channel. Viva Las Vegas, starring Elvis
Presley and Ann Margaret. That's a blast from the past 1964,

(01:00:31):
I believe it came out rated PG, supplemented and complemented
with audio description. Some birthdays before we go to the act,
we go and Sharon say, I'm having a birthday. Good
on Sharon. Hope life is going well for you. To
Adelaide we say happy birthday to Jed Alexander across the
Western Australia. Karen Wickham is having a birthday. Happy birthday

(01:00:53):
to you Karen. Hopefully things are going really well for
you into the field of arts. We go and say
Happy Birthday to Lisa Langley, doing some great work with
people like No Strings Attached and others. Happy birthday, Lisa
and Cindy Burgess having a birthday. Good on you, Cindy.
Been a great advocate and a great trooper for guide
dogs all over Australia in all sorts of areas. Cindy Burgess.

(01:01:16):
A very big happy birthday to you. Hope life is
going really well. Thank you. Sam Rickard for your help.
Thank you, Pam Green for yours. Reminding you that our
focal point is available on your favorite podcast platform. Regardless
of what you think of the show, please tell a
friend we'd love to have more listeners. Be kind to yourselves,
be thoughtful, and look out for others all being well.

(01:01:39):
Focal point back at the same time next week on
behalf of Philip VanderMeer. And a big cheerio to Brenda
McDougall listening in. This has been focal point on Australia
Radio and the Reading Radio Network.