21 May 2025

On FOCAL POINT:

• Mark Trompp, winner of a Silver Medal in the blind division at the Asia and Oceania
  Championships for Sambo - a form of martial arts grappling.
• Rachel, from Marketing at Beyond Blindness, has news on activities and events: including a history tour of Adelaide and some of its crime spots.
• Dr Annmaree Watharow and Dr Moira Dunsmore, from Sydney University, share news on their research in dual sensory impairment.
• Sadam Ahmed, Principal Consultant and software Teacher,
  took us into the future with thoughts in advancements in mobility technology. 

Resources: 

Mark Trompp: Call 0408 652 288 or email: [e-mail]

Beyond Blindness: https://beyondblindness.org.au 

Dual Sensory Impairment Project: http://www.dsiproject.org 

Sadam Ahemed: [e-mail] 

Glide: https://glidance.io/

Accessibility Solutions: https://accessibletechnologysolutions.com 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

S1 (00:15):
Good evening and welcome to Focal Point here on Vision
Australia Radio 1190 7 a.m. in Adelaide, online at radio,
the Radio Digital and Adelaide and Darwin through the TuneIn
radio app. Through the Community Radio Plus app. Look for
Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide, the Reading Radio Network as well
your favourite podcast or streaming service. Peter Greco on behalf

(00:38):
of Phillip Vandepeer and a big show to Wendy McDougall
listening in saying thank you so much for your company.
Lovely to join us. This program coming to you from
Ghana land coming to you very shortly. We'll meet Mark Tromp,
who's just won a silver medal in the sport of Sambo.
First time I've spoken about it. Maybe you haven't heard
about it either. We'll catch up with Mark very, very soon.

(01:00):
Rachael from Beyond Blindness will join us with some latest
news about what's happening at Beyond Blindness. Something really cool
happening tomorrow morning. Maybe a bit short notice, but you
might be able to get to that. Then we'll catch
up with Anne Marie Otero and also Moira Dunsmore from
Sydney University, doing wonderful work in the area of dual

(01:20):
sensory impairment. And maybe a chance for you to get involved,
particularly looking at people in the older age groups. So really,
really important. And then Saddam Ahmed will join us, that
wonderful technologist, he's talking about maybe a bit of a
glimpse into mobility help in the future. If you're listening
through 1190 7 a.m. in Adelaide, around the clock for

(01:41):
your listening pleasure. Lindsay and Sam are here with Studio
One just before we hear what's on their program tonight
through from a regular on the program, or certainly someone
we've spoken to in the program in the past, Nathan Johnston,
who's a wonderful athlete and public speaker. Nathan is one
to set up a website. He's prepared to pay a
fee to have someone set up a website for him.

(02:03):
So if you can help out, get in touch. 8234
1197 during business hours or give us a call here
at the radio station. 13084746130847466. If you can design, make, manufacture,
whatever the word is a website for Nathan Johnston, please

(02:26):
get in touch. You could earn a few dollars. Let's
find out what's on studio one tonight.

S2 (02:32):
Have you ever fancied being on radio for Volunteer Week?
We talk to Simon and Abby from Vision Australia Radio's
In Plain Sight.

S3 (02:39):
And Shaun Oliver talks about volunteering on live radio. That's scary,
isn't it? Absolutely it is. So join us at eight
for studio one.

S1 (02:49):
Well, I can honestly say this is the first time
I've spoken about the sport Sambo. Sounds a bit like dancing,
but I don't think it is. Or maybe it is
kind of a chat about it with the silver medallist,
Mark Crump. Mark, question. Jamaica. Thanks for your time.

S4 (03:02):
Yeah. No worries Peter, thanks. It's great to have the
opportunity to talk about Sambo. And it is. It is
like dancing, but it's dancing when someone wants to rip
your head off.

S1 (03:11):
So you learn to fight back.

S4 (03:12):
Yeah, that's.

S1 (03:14):
Just about it. Well, how did you get into it?

S4 (03:15):
Well, I, I, uh, I've had a long career in
martial arts, and because of my sight impairment, I've stuck
to grappling or wrestling. And 20, 23, I won a
world championship in Saudi Arabia, which was in jiu jitsu,
Brazilian jiu jitsu. And then this year, one of my colleagues,

(03:39):
one of my friends from the Blue Mountains Martial Arts Center,
he won the national championship in sambo, and he was
talking to the national coach about, uh, going overseas and
competing in Uzbekistan. And the coach said there was funding
for a blind athlete and a coach, but he didn't

(04:03):
know anyone. And so my friend Jimmy said, he goes,
I know the guy. And he showed him my profile,
showed the coach my profile and. Yeah, and and then
I got a phone call saying, hey, there's a possible
trip over to Uzbekistan if you want to do Sambo

(04:24):
and I. And I said, okay, I'll be in for that.
And so then, then we started training in earnest, obviously,
but because it's a grappling sambo wrestling and there's, you know,
it's different rules to jiu jitsu, but essentially the skill
set is the same, you know, so I could adapt
to that. Um, you know, I'm still still got a

(04:45):
lot to learn in the intricacies of the sport. But yeah,
that's how I got into it essentially.

S1 (04:51):
So grappling is kind of more you're holding on different holds.
You're holding on to each other more is uh, some
of the jiu jitsu, etc. is more, um, not not
so much non-contact. But yeah, you're kind of having shots
at each other, but not in a contact sense. I
haven't explained that very well at all, have I?

S4 (05:08):
Yeah, but basically you can break martial arts up into
two types of of fighting. And that's striking and grappling.
So striking Arts are like your kung fu, your karate,
your taekwondo, where you're kicking and punching and Muay Thai kickboxing.
So that's all striking. And the grappling arts are things

(05:30):
like Olympic wrestling, freestyle wrestling, um, jiu jitsu, judo, sambo, uh,
the list goes on and on. And so therefore, for
a visually impaired or blind person, that close contact and,
and the feel is really what enables you to compete

(05:52):
on a level playing field with other people, you know?

S1 (05:56):
Yeah, I believe that, uh, maybe a bit more long
term or maybe not so much long term, but there's
kind of hope to get the sport into the Paralympics.

S4 (06:03):
Yeah, well, what? The Sambo International Sambo Federation, we'll call
it FIAs, because it's a bit easier to say in
that whole mouthful, but they've actually done a really good
job in codifying the rules for blind sambo, which is
one of the things, the criteria that you need to
get into the Paralympics is that you need to have rules.

(06:25):
So some of the others, like jiu jitsu and, uh,
I know judo is has got codified rules for blind
athletes and they're, they're already in the Paralympics. But yeah.
So they need to have rules and it needs to
be set out, you know, in great detail what you know,
what the participants do and what they wear and what

(06:46):
the referee does. Because there's certain rules. Sambo, by its nature,
you know, needs a few more rules Changed for blind people.
Then jiu jitsu. Perhaps. You know, it's, um. For instance,
they have. You can lose points if you go out
of the circle. So you're in a you're on a mat,

(07:08):
you're in a circle. And if you step out of
the circle, a normal combatant would lose points. Whereas obviously
with blind people, you can't really have that rule because
you'd be losing points all over the shop. So they
just bring you back into the ring. And also a
normal Sambo competitors, they start apart and so they they

(07:32):
bow or they shake hands, they step back and the
referee says fight. And and then they, uh, try to
take each other down. Whereas with blind people you start connected.
So you hold their collar of their jacket and their
sleeve of their jacket. And they've also got some specialized
kicks for like equipment for the blind. Competitors. And that's

(07:56):
a helmet. It's like a flexible helmet. It's like boxing headgear.
If you've ever come into contact with that, it's like
a soft helmet, and it has a blindfold that comes
down over your eyes and that's that's just to level
the playing field. So some people have some light perception

(08:18):
or movement or whatever. When they have the helmet, you
can't see anything.

S1 (08:24):
Have you been injured much, Mark?

S4 (08:25):
Uh, well, not not with sambo. Um, jiu jitsu a
little bit, but not very. Not very much. It's the
thing about grappling sports is that there's no impact, so
there's no collisions. You know, you might collide with the
ground when you get thrown, but you learn how to fall.
But with with the punching and kicking, the striking arts,

(08:49):
you know, there's a lot of collisions. So there's a
lot of scope for injury, whereas with the grappling arts
they're much safer in that regard. You know, you do sometimes,
you know, I've hurt my thumb or hurt my knee
or the worst injury I had. I broke a rib,
but that was in training and it was my own,

(09:12):
my own fault. Like I tried to do something that
I shouldn't have tried to do. But, um, that's over
more than 25. It's nearly 30 years of grappling. You know,
if you get one broken rib, then that's pretty good.

S1 (09:26):
What about in terms of weight divisions, you know, weight division?

S4 (09:30):
Yeah. Following the weight division with the the last with
the Asia Oceania titles, I fought in the under 79
kilos and I was actually the lightest in my range,
so I was 73.4 I think so. So I gave
up a fair bit of.

S1 (09:49):
I got a fair bit to give up isn't it. Yeah.

S4 (09:51):
You like dragging me around the ring, you know? But
it's weight's not everything. You know, you've got to have
some skill and some. You got to be able to.
You got to have a martial arts brain, you know?
You got to work stuff out.

S1 (10:04):
Well, I was going to ask you about that. The
fact that you've been involved with martial arts and grappling
for all this time. I mean, I guess it's just
a matter of adjusting to the different rules, but the
kind of basics are the same in terms of, um,
you know, your approach and your past experience.

S4 (10:19):
Um, yeah. The basics are the same. The rules cause
the competition to change slightly. So, for instance, Sambo, it's
a little bit like freestyle wrestling in the regard that
you start standing up and then you do a takedown
or you get taken down and then you're on the

(10:42):
ground and you either have to pin your opponent or
submit them. But if the action stalls for more than
sort of 3 to 5 seconds. The referee will blow
his whistle and he'll stand you back up again. Um,
whereas with jiu jitsu and some other wrestling, you can
you're on the ground all the time and you know,

(11:02):
you can slow things down. You can play more of
a well, they would call it passive, but it's more
of a defensive role. Mhm. So Sambo is a lot faster.
It takes a lot more energy. Yeah. You know because
you're always standing fighting on your feet is a lot.
You know it takes a lot more energy to fight
on your feet than being on the ground.

S1 (11:24):
Yeah. I think we can all identify with that. What
about a sense of how long a fight is, if
you like. Yeah. Brown's. How does that work?

S4 (11:29):
Yeah. So officially, you have one round and it's for
five minutes, but because they stop the fight every time
it gets stalled, I think my first fight went for
eight minutes in total. But. So the fight time is
five minutes. But it could be, you know, the the
round itself could go for quite a bit longer than that.

S1 (11:50):
You've done a bit of international travel with it then.
And as I say, just back with the silver medal,
so you know. But you. There's not too many athletes
who are blind or low vision competing in Australia. Is
that right?

S4 (12:00):
Yeah. That's right. Like there's not too many. We're we're
pretty far between. It's far and spread out over the
States at the moment. I'm trying to compile a team to, uh,
to go back overseas for, for another sambo competition with
blind people. And so that's part of why I need

(12:22):
to hit the airwaves and get on the internet and
see who's about, you know, other grapplers, because there's Sambo
is quite a small sport in itself, let alone Blind
Sambo in, in Australia. But over there, over in Uzbekistan,
there were over 60 athletes, blind athletes. So it was big,

(12:42):
you know, it was huge.

S1 (12:44):
And this is one of those things where the more play,
the them all play, if you know what I mean.
Like it? You know that the word of mouth, it
spreads and it becomes more popular in a place like Pakistan.
That would be the case that, you know, other people
know other people that do it, so they all join in.

S4 (12:57):
Yeah. That's right. It's that's right. It's a community. Yeah.
It snowballs. Um, but we just have to get a
bit of, um, bit of momentum up here in Australia.

S1 (13:08):
So in terms of who might be interested in kind
of joining up, how would you kind of profile someone
that might I mean, I guess to get started if
you just keen that that's a good start. But yeah
kind of other skills or other backgrounds that might be helpful.

S4 (13:20):
A martial arts background is helpful, but it's not. It's
not essential. Like I'm looking for anyone who wants to
have a go, anyone who who likes sport, who's currently
playing sport. I mean, I looked at the, uh, array
of blind sports on Blind Sports Australia and, you know,

(13:40):
there's an enormous, like, tennis, rugby stuff. I don't even
know how they do it.

S1 (13:45):
So some of the sports are pretty big.

S4 (13:47):
So I did some sports. I mean, that's why I'm
wrestling because I, I never could do ball sports. So
now they're doing ball sports.

S1 (13:55):
So if you suck at ball sports, uh, standby for you.

S4 (13:58):
That's right. That's it. But yeah, any any people who
are listening who are interested in in competition, just. Yeah.
Please get in contact with me because there's there's a
whole there's a whole world out there and, you know, there's, uh,
supported trips, you know, that all expenses paid trips to

(14:21):
these places. The one in Saudi Arabia. I got to
meet the prince. I got to meet MBS himself and
got some photos and.

S1 (14:29):
Wow.

S4 (14:30):
Yeah.

S1 (14:30):
That was you met him before Donald Trump did?

S4 (14:33):
I did. I was a Trump that met him before Trump.
There's one for.

S1 (14:38):
Trump. Put that on put put that in on your profile. Hey, Mark, um,
what about in terms of sort of coaching or people
sort of guiding you through that? That's sort of established
a bit as well.

S4 (14:49):
So in regards to the the team that I'm forming, yeah,
they'll be funding for coaches and support staff and I
guess I'll be, I'll be one of the coaches. And
maybe it depends on how big the team is. I'll compete.
You know, it just depends on what what form the
team takes. But yeah, there's coaching and support staff.

S1 (15:12):
Yeah. You've got that lived experience because you're obviously blind yourself.
So you kind of as a coach you're going to
be able to relay that information, you know, from a
lived experience point of view.

S4 (15:21):
Yeah. That's right. Because yeah, there's sighted people. You can't
expect that they're going to know what to take care
of all the time. Like and things pop up, you know,
you're going overseas. You're going to countries that don't speak
the language. Of course. You know, you've got to you
got to be on your toes. And it's a changing
environment all the time. You know, the that things crop up, but,

(15:43):
you know, it's, um. Nothing's insurmountable. Everything can be handled.

S1 (15:47):
Mark, great to meet you. For the first time. I'm
sure we'll speak again if people do want to find
out more. Do you want to give, uh, a contact,
something on air? Either an email address or a phone.

S4 (15:56):
Great. Just my email is just my name gmail.com. Right. Yeah.
You can also get in contact through, uh, you can
look up blind Sambo Australia.

S1 (16:09):
Alright. And Sambo spelled sambo.

S4 (16:12):
So that's very simple. Very simple. And. Yeah. And I
think you've got my number that you could probably your website.
So keep on tap. I love talking on the phone.
So yeah.

S1 (16:23):
Mark, we're not telling tales out of school, but we've
been chasing you for ten days or so trying to
get you finally stick around at times and we've got
you on, so good luck. We'd love to keep in
touch and congratulations on your silver medal as well. So
great particularly first up.

S4 (16:37):
Thanks very much Peter.

S1 (16:38):
That's Mark there. That's you like that. He's a Trump
that met the prince before Trump did. Put that on
your CV. That's wonderful. So if you want to find
out more details, mark at gmail.com or that information up
with our show notes. But the sport of sambo getting
bigger and stronger.

S5 (16:55):
One step beyond.

S1 (17:01):
Let's find out what's been happening and what is going
to happen at Beyond Blindness and from the marketing department.
Speak to Rachel. Rachel. Welcome back. Always good to catch up.

S6 (17:10):
Yeah. Thanks, Peter.

S1 (17:11):
Now, what do you want to do? Do you want
to start with what's happened or do you want to
look forward?

S6 (17:15):
Um, probably a little bit of both. All right. We
did have a, uh, new Moonta social group that's been
started up recently, so we had that happen already. But
then we've also got hopefully something, um, in the works. Yeah.
For the future with that too.

S1 (17:32):
Well, tell us about the Moonta group. I know that, uh,
I think last time we spoke to Frank, he was
hinting at the fact that it was going to get underway.
So a meeting has happened?

S6 (17:40):
Yeah, there was one that already happened on Monday the
14th of April. So, um, Jen, who's our northern member
engagement officer, she's, uh, initiated and coordinated a new regional
social group. So, yeah, members were invited from Moonta, Wallaroo,
Kadina and price. So around that area. Yeah. And so

(18:02):
the word spread pretty far and wide that they would
be in town, uh, to encourage local new blind and
vision impaired. Um, yeah. People living in the area to
join in. Um, and yeah, uh, from what I heard, it, um,
went really well. There was an amazing turnout, um, for, uh,

(18:22):
six people turned up, so, um. Yeah, that's pretty good. And,
you know, we'll we'll, um. Yeah, celebrate that, because six
people for any new group is pretty amazing. So, um. Yeah,
Jen was really happy with that. Um, all the hard
work to promote that and get the word out there. But, um,

(18:43):
you know, because some groups sort of start off a
bit small where 1 or 2 people will join and
then gradually it will get bigger, but have six people,
you know, come right off the bat. It's very encouraging and, um,
sort of shows that there was a need for that
group up there. So, um, yeah, from what I heard,
they all enjoyed themselves. They just met for lunch and

(19:05):
had a bit of a chat and, um, yeah, they're
looking forward to meeting again sometime soon.

S1 (19:10):
Well, that's fantastic. And I know that, you know, often
isolation can be a real issue for for anyone, but
particularly for people blind or low vision in that country
area where perhaps transport isn't as easily accessible as it
might otherwise be. It's great that you've got that group
getting together and very good that you got word out there.
And obviously, as you say, there was a response that's

(19:31):
very confirming that what you're doing and the services that
you're offering and the fact that you want to catch
up is, is something that the community is very much
on board with.

S6 (19:39):
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It feels, um, really good to be
affirmed that we're on the right track and that Jen
sort of picked the right place to, you know, for
the for the next regional group. So, yeah, it felt
felt pretty good.

S1 (19:53):
We talked about Jen being, uh, you know, the, uh,
engagement officer in that northern area. I mean, Kadina, Wallaroo
and Moonta, that's that's a long way from town. So
it's very good that you're reaching out into the, uh,
to the country areas.

S6 (20:06):
Yeah, yeah. Well, um, that's one of our goals is to, um,
sort of run these sort of test groups and see
what the reception is like and. Yeah, see how they go. And, um, yeah.
So this one's been pretty good. So obviously we want
to continue continue with it. And so the next Moonta

(20:27):
meetup will be on Tuesday the 3rd of June. So
yeah that's going to do the same thing as last time.
Just meet for lunch somewhere local to that area and, um, yeah,
probably just have a pub lunch and have a chat and, um, yeah,
make new friends and um, yeah, just continue to sort

(20:49):
of build on that. Those social connections. Yeah. From the first.

S1 (20:53):
One. So with the 3rd of June will give you
contact details. So if people want to get a pen
and paper or something to record your details, we'll do
that in a second. And I know for sure that
having been out that way a few times, the signal
on 1190 7 a.m. on Australia radio does carry out
to those areas. So if people don't have access to
the internet where they can always get us, of course.

(21:14):
But if people don't have access to the internet on
the old, uh am band 1197, they'll have no trouble
picking us up. So if you're listening in that area,
maybe know someone that might be interested, uh, will give
the contact details in a second. Rachel, what about people
who might be interested in volunteering with that group? Is
that also an option?

S6 (21:31):
Oh, yeah. Definitely. Yeah. We can always use, like, um,
some helping hands and site guides or drivers, uh, especially as, um,
you know, the group grows and everything. Um, yeah. It's
always good to have, um, expressions of interest of people
living in that area. So, um, if you know someone
that might fit the bill or you yourself, please let

(21:53):
us know. And, um, yeah, it's good to know that your, uh,
radio frequency reaches that far, so. Yeah, hopefully they are
listening to the radio. Yeah, that would be great.

S1 (22:04):
Yeah, yeah, it's not that not really that far away,
but certainly sometimes the signals don't travel all that well.
But as far as that, uh, York Peninsula area goes
that it certainly does carry a long one. I know
my mate Phil, uh, has got a family out there,
and he has no trouble picking us up when he's
over there visiting. So that's that's good news. And Rachel,

(22:24):
of course, the other good thing about something like that
is the 3rd of June. So people got a little
bit of notice a couple of weeks or so notice for,
you know, getting themselves organized to go along.

S6 (22:34):
Yep, yep. They can, um, think about it for a
few weeks and, um, just make sure to, uh, let
Jen know. Um, so she's our beyond liner's northern member
engagement officer. So she's the one coordinating this new mentor group. And, uh,
you can call her on 81663330. Or you can call

(22:56):
her mobile on 0403 451 817.

S1 (23:01):
I've had the pleasure of speaking to Jen both on
and off, and she's a bit of a character, so
I can imagine that she would be attracting a lot
of people just through her, uh, sparkling personality. She's got
a bit of vibrancy about her, so I'm sure that
that would go over very well with members and potential
members as well.

S6 (23:17):
Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Um, all the members, um, love Jen.
And yeah, it's always a pleasure to spend time with her.
So yeah, she's, um. Yeah. Draw card to.

S1 (23:29):
Yeah. Draw card. Yeah, get people magnet.

S6 (23:32):
Yeah.

S1 (23:33):
Yeah. Now you've got something pretty cool happening tomorrow. I
know it's a little bit short notice, but this sounds
a fantastic idea.

S6 (23:39):
Uh, yeah, it is a bit short notice, but, um. Yeah,
you never know. Um, you might be listening tonight and
you might be a member, and, um. Yeah, it might
be something that you might want to do. So tomorrow
there's going to be a historic crime tour of Adelaide,
the Adelaide CBD, and then lunch at the Thebarton Hotel.

S1 (24:00):
Yeah. Do you want to take us through some of
the what? Some of the crimes that some of the
kind of, uh, streets? Because I guess it's also important
to point out that, um, you know, there's a little
bit of walking involved, so people have to need to
be pretty mobile independently or certainly, uh, have someone to
come along and support them as well.

S6 (24:17):
Yeah. It's for people that can walk a bit of
a distance because, um, like you said, it is a
walking tour. Um, so, yeah, um, if that's something you're
able to do, please come along. and if not, if
you are welcome to be accompanied. And we encourage you
to ask a support worker to come along with you

(24:37):
to help you sort of manage, um, physically getting around. Um,
but yeah, other than that, um, they are going to
start it at the War Memorial on North Terrace. Um,
and that's on the corner of Kintore Avenue and North Terrace.
And then they're going to proceed to areas such as

(24:59):
Harley Street, North Terrace, Rundle Mall and Gawler Place. So
those are the places that um, yeah, they'll be walking
around on the tour and um, yeah, letting you know
the history of them. And it's, uh, conducted by an
experienced guide. Graham. Um, he's from down to earth tours.
He did a tour, uh, for Beyond Blindness in the past,

(25:23):
where they walked around Adelaide and they. And he talked about, uh,
various houses. So. And the history behind them and everything. So, yeah,
that was really popular with, um, the group. A lot
of members came along to that. And yeah, they really
enjoyed it. And Graham was a really good guide as well.
Very informative. And um, yeah. So we've gone with, um,

(25:46):
that business again and um, yeah. So it should be
a lot of fun this time too. And it says, um,
he will bring us around the city and regale us
with stories about nine cases ranging from the mid 1800s
through to 1944. And we visit areas in connection with
these crimes and discuss the cases and the outcomes for

(26:07):
both victims as well as those accused. So yeah, sounds, um,
really interesting if you're into like, true crime and everything
or Adelaide history or just learning something new. Yeah. Um,
it sounds like it'd be right up your alley, so. Yeah,
feel free to. Yeah. Join us tomorrow.

S1 (26:26):
Would 1944. It's a little while ago, so maybe not
many people might not be alive, but their parents or
grandparents might have told them about some of these crimes.
So they might be able to kind of identify with
that through, uh, through the stories that Graham tells. So
that's really good. And I think the great thing is that,
I mean, you hear about reality TV and that sort
of stuff. I mean, this is real life stuff. And

(26:46):
obviously a place like Garner's Tours would have the information,
you know, pretty down pat about the sort of history
behind the crimes, etc.. So I reckon that would be
really fascinating.

S6 (26:57):
Yeah, it sounds that way. And, um, yeah, I'm looking
forward to seeing what, um, everyone thinks of it too, but, um, yeah,
there's something to be said about, uh, sort of. I mean,
it's unfortunate that crimes happened. Yeah. Of course, I mean,
I suppose it's history now and, um, and. Yeah, sort
of those sort of true things that actually happened right

(27:17):
where we go walking or shopping or, you know, every
day it's um. Yeah. Be really interesting to know the
history behind that. And then, yeah, there's all the all
those stories that.

S1 (27:28):
That's such a great point because it sort of places
you might go on that particular day tomorrow, that next
time you go there, it'll remind you about the story
that Graham might tell. So you think about that place
in a whole new, different way. Yeah.

S6 (27:42):
Yeah. That's right. Yeah. It might have a yeah a
bit of an impact. Yeah for sure.

S1 (27:47):
And I guess along those lines, you know, I know um,
Beyond Blindness is very receptive to ideas for, for future, uh, activities.
If you think of um, or another sort of, uh,
topic like that, I'm sure that could probably be investigated
to a, a similar sort of tour.

S6 (28:03):
Um, yeah. We're always, um, you know, receptive to ideas. And, um,
we're an organization that, um, you know, tries to do what, uh,
that's led by member suggestions, too. So, yeah, do let
us know if there's anything sort of similar to these
sort of tours that, um. Yeah, you think should happen and. yeah, we'll, um,

(28:24):
certainly take it into consideration. So, uh, it is going
to happen tomorrow. So if that's something you're interested in,
please give it a Campbeltown office, a call straight away
in the morning at 830. And, um, yeah, we'll see if, um. Yeah,
we could fit you in for the tour.

S1 (28:43):
And then there's a lunch after it is there.

S6 (28:45):
So the lunch will be at 1230. Yeah. Um, and
that's going to be at the hotel. So if you
call Marion tomorrow at the Campbeltown office, she'll be able to. Yeah.
Let you know all the details and. Yeah. How, how
they're going to, um, get to the hotel and, um. Yeah.

(29:06):
And to put you on the RSVP list.

S1 (29:08):
All right. That sounds really, really good. I think it's
$15 for the tour, isn't it?

S6 (29:12):
Yes, it's $15. And we do ask that you pay
by cash. So, um. Yeah. So have those notes on you.
And the tour time is 1030. And, um. Yeah. So
you can call Marian on 83676088. Just make sure to
call the office as soon as we open at 830. And, yes,

(29:33):
you'll see what she can do.

S1 (29:34):
All right. Is that about it for this month?

S6 (29:37):
Uh, we've got one more thing.

S7 (29:38):
Oh, sorry. Yep.

S6 (29:39):
That's okay. Um, we've got a morning tea as well
happening next month. So, um, it's the, um. You may
have heard of it. It's called Australia's biggest morning tea. So, yeah,
we're going to invite members and volunteers to join in
on the Cancer Council's program to raise funds to fund
cancer research, provide support to people suffering from cancer in Australia,

(30:03):
and fund prevention and educational programs. So it's going to
be a morning tea, but it's for a good cause.

S1 (30:11):
Yeah. Great. Cause.

S6 (30:12):
Mhm. Uh, so that's happening on Wednesday the 11th of
June at 10 a.m. to 12 p.m.. And that's going
to be at the Campbelltown Social Centre, which is at
516 Lower North East Road in Campbelltown. That's the social
centre and um, there's no cost except we do ask

(30:34):
that you, you know, donate whatever you feel you're able
to afford just to um. Yeah. For the Cancer Council,
just to fundraise for a good cause.

S1 (30:43):
Yeah. Well, certainly prevention and also education, they are two
very important things to, uh, to be raising funds for.
So that's great. So that's Wednesday the 11th of June.

S6 (30:52):
Yep. That's right.

S1 (30:53):
All right. Now if people want to find out more,
how can we get in touch about any of the
things you've spoken about tonight?

S6 (30:59):
Um, well, you can call our main Campbelltown office on 83676088.
And just, um, let reception know exactly what information you're wanting,
and they'll direct you to the correct person.

S1 (31:13):
Alright. And also, you've got a website people can get
more information from.

S6 (31:16):
Yeah. It's, uh, beyond blindness. Org.

S1 (31:19):
All right. I know you're very keen for people to
get in touch via Facebook and check out your Facebook
page as well, so they can search for you there, too.

S6 (31:26):
Yep. Uh, you can find us on Facebook. Um, yeah.
Just look up beyond blindness and. Yeah, you'll you should
be able to find us.

S1 (31:35):
Okay, Rachel. Great report. Thank you so much for that.
We'll catch up again next month.

S6 (31:40):
Yeah. No worries. Thanks, Peter. See you next time.

S1 (31:42):
Rachel. There from beyond blindness 836760108. Let's talk about a
very important topic, the topic of the dual sensory impairment.
And to talk a bit about it, we've got Anne
Marie Waithera on the line. Anne Marie. Lovely to meet you.
And thank you so, so much for your time today.

S8 (32:03):
Happy to be here.

S1 (32:04):
Thanks, Anne-Marie. And also from Sydney University as indeed Anne
Marie is is Moira Densmore. Moira, welcome to you.

S9 (32:11):
Thank you Peter. Lovely to be here.

S1 (32:13):
And, Marie, maybe you'd like to tell us a little
bit about yourself. You are a person who is living
with hearing and vision loss.

S10 (32:20):
Yes. Um, I live with, uh, both, uh, usher syndrome,
which is a degenerative condition of combined hearing and, uh,
vision loss with usually, uh, hearing loss at birth and, uh, degenerative, uh,
retinitis pigmentosa, hearing vision loss, probably in the first or

(32:43):
second decade of life. But I also lost a whole
chunk of sight through a totally unrelated retinal hole and
a botched repair. So, um, we are not always the
product of just one thing. I come from a family
of usher syndrome, and I also come from a family

(33:03):
of Aids related, uh, dual sensory impairment, which is another
term for a combined hearing and vision loss. So I
have three out of four parents and parent in law
have dual sensory impairment. I thought it must be catching.

S1 (33:21):
Well, you certainly can speak very much from lived experience.
Mauritius a little bit about yourself. You're from Sydney University.
Tell us about your involvement in particular with the this
particular project?

S9 (33:33):
Yes. So thanks, Peter. I, um, actually joined the Vision
Hearing project way back in 2011, 2012 with Doctor Julie Schneider.
I was a research assistant, and based on some of
the work that we did there became the basis for
my PhD. And in turn, Julie became my supervisor for

(33:56):
my PhD. So we still obviously collaborate and work together
on the the variety of projects that we're going that
we've got going now. But I was particularly interested in
older people with a combination of vision and healing, partly
because their stories weren't being told, and it wasn't well

(34:16):
recognized either by them themselves or equally by other health professionals.
So there really was quite a solid story to tell
for them.

S1 (34:28):
And Anne Marie, how did you and Moira meet up?

S10 (34:31):
Strangely enough, I did medicine and became a general practitioner.
I was the first person in the university with her,
with either deaf or deaf blind, who did that? But
it became quite tricky. And I had, um, been seeing
a lot of people who had gone to hospital and

(34:53):
had profoundly negative experiences, and these were people who were either, um,
had hearing loss, low vision, or both. And the worst
experiences were, um, by the people who had both. So
I spoke to the Ministry of Health and they said, oh,

(35:14):
we're not aware of this being a problem and there's
no data on this being a problem. So I thought, oh, well,
I better do a PhD, kind of a bit of
a big career change at that point. And then I
started a a little dual sensory impairment special interest group
and uh, hooked up with, uh, Moira and Julie. And

(35:39):
we kind of kept meeting up. And eventually Moira and
I ended up working in basically the same space at
the University of Sydney. And so we've been really working
on translating what our PhDs have taught us about what
is needed. And we've been working quite hard on minimal funds.

(36:03):
I hope someone, a very nice philanthropist is listening, who
is going to bring his or her very deep pocket
It and say these people need proper funding, but yes, no.
We've been working to do as much translation of our
research into benefit for the communities of people with dual

(36:24):
sensory impairment and more.

S1 (36:26):
As you as you kind of touched on there more
at the beginning, you're putting a lot of focus on
older people with dual sensory loss.

S9 (36:35):
Yes. Yes, absolutely. Um, because they were the sort of
participants in the Vision Healing Project. So we've got, you know,
a reasonable understanding of the number of people who have
vision or hearing independently, but not really that data. Anne-Marie said. Um,
that really tells us what's happening with older people with

(36:58):
dual sensory impairment or the combination. And certainly Anne-Marie and
I really when we met, we sort of clung to
each other because it's such an area where there aren't
many other researchers working in this space, particularly with older people.

(37:18):
And so it really became really important that we build
the team based on what we were doing. And we
both had an interest in older people. Our research interests
diverge a little bit. And Marie's was hospital experiences. But
we're we're both now looking at older people, but also
older people and carers and really trying to develop strategies

(37:41):
for them both in the community and in the hospital setting. Eventually,
I think we've got a bit of a clear run
because there is so little done in this space that
it really there is almost too much to do. So
I think it's about taking baby steps but also having
a bigger picture, which is where the jewels sit project,

(38:05):
I suppose, comes into. So, um, when I'm married and
I both, um, finished their PhDs, we started thinking about
where we could focus specifically. And we both started thinking
about who could be involved. So we don't reinvent the wheel.
It's out there. And actually, to build an expertise that's

(38:26):
out there. So one one of the first things that
we've we've actually been focused on is bringing people together
in this space, um, to try and develop some strategies
or look at where we are missing out or where
people are not getting the information. So my focus has
been on looking at older people and carers, and Anne

(38:48):
Marie's has been focused on looking at, um, developing the
consumer handbook so that people with DSI are more likely
to know what they can do in what situations. But
because of that, we sort of now understand how little
health professionals actually know about dual sensory impairment and the

(39:09):
impacts when they go into hospital or when they go
to their GP. So I've actually, um, finished, uh, a
recently published book, um, which is available for all health
professionals and which will, um, send you details off later. Peter.
But that's been published and is beginning to get some
traction out there too.

S1 (39:30):
And Marie, how have you found it as far as
people who have a dual sensory loss wanting to participate
in your research to speak to you about their experiences?

S6 (39:40):
Well, we.

S10 (39:42):
Had a really big, um, survey at the end of
last year, which was really looking at what kinds of
information people with a combined sensory impairment want, when do
they get it and what do they now know and
advise for other people? So really I guess get advice, tips, tricks, hacks.

(40:07):
You know, those sorts of things. And we walk the
talk because, you know, normally you get a survey sent
out to you. It's not accessible to everybody.

S1 (40:17):
Yes.

S10 (40:18):
And so we provided eight different formats. And we were
happy to do face to face, you know, telephone, um,
electronic versions, um, all sorts of versions. So it was
very much a we sent Braille versions out to people
who requested, um, who requested that. So it was a
survey that was accessible. And what was really fabulous was

(40:41):
we had 223 responses, and approximately half were people who
live with, uh, dual sensory impairment or their family and
informal carer, and the other half were practitioners, professional. So
we actually got a fabulous 50 over 50 split. Um,

(41:03):
it wasn't just all professionals and practitioners. So, um, what
was even more stunning than that was that just nine,
about 9% fell into both categories. So it's about saying
breaking down the binaries of if you have dual sensory
impairment or any form of sensory loss, then you're automatically

(41:25):
cared for a service user. You can't possibly be anything else.
So that's one thing that's happening, is breaking down that
binary where you can be a support provider and a
person as well. So that was very much something that
we we did last year, that we're using that information
to inform all the other projects that we're doing, uh,

(41:48):
this year. So we have a in terms of looking
for you'll have lots and lots of little things because
we're very committed to lived experience, informing everything we do
at every level. And, uh, unfortunately for some of our
one of our projects, you have to live in Indonesia
to do it. So we have an Indonesian project going.

S1 (42:10):
Yeah.

S10 (42:10):
Looking looking at low cost, um, assistive technology there because
Indonesia has, uh, really low rates of assistive technology. So
less than 8%.

S1 (42:21):
Wow.

S10 (42:22):
Should have a hearing aid, uh, able to access that.

S1 (42:26):
I noticed that in the information you sent me. I
was going to ask you about that, because we're going
to catch up with you in a few weeks before, uh,
deafblind awareness Week. And the reason I ask about the
question about people being prepared to come forward, if you like,
and give information is because one of the things that
we've heard about on this program over a period of
time is that it can be quite isolating to have

(42:49):
the dual sensory losses. So that's why I was asking
about how prepared people were to come out, because I guess,
you know, getting the information to them is one thing,
and then them coming out and speaking out as well
is a second thing.

S10 (43:02):
There's a great deal of difference and diversity in the
group of older people with dual sensory impairment, and how
they come to be dual sensory impaired. It can be
very diverse as well. But if you're looked after, for instance,
by if, let's say you're low vision came first and

(43:23):
then you are relying on a single sensory support organization
or your ophthalmologist, or for someone else to notice, to
notice that a your hearing is not so great and
it's impacting on how you're coping with your low vision,
and to put it together as a separate condition. And
the same thing goes if you're going to see the

(43:45):
audiologist and they're advising hearing aids, and you just don't
understand why, you just can't let be well, why you
just can't understand what's going on. And so unless someone's
putting it together for you, few. Uh, one of the
things we found is that older people themselves tend to go, oh,

(44:06):
I'm just getting older. This is a normal part of
getting older is losing sight and hearing when it's not.
And it's a remediable you package, you can put it
together and that you need different supports because traditionally if
you go to a single sensory support service, you get support.

(44:29):
So low vision support relies often on your hearing as
well as your touch. Um, hearing support relies on your
vision and assistive technology. But if you got both, you
can't manage the other things because.

S1 (44:46):
You've.

S10 (44:47):
Got, you know, the other one helping you out.

S7 (44:50):
Of course.

S10 (44:51):
That very isolating. And people with retreat, withdraw, isolate if
you can't engage and Understand what's going on around you.
Then what do you do? And we know now that,
you know, um, cognitive impairment, uh, had remediable risk factors.

S1 (45:10):
Yeah. Yeah.

S10 (45:11):
Low vision. One of them hearing loss is the other.
Social isolation is another one. And getting older though, all
that comes together in dual sensory impairment. And so it
is really worth a social investment in helping people do
better when they have dual sensory impairment. We also know

(45:33):
the huge cost, um, to the healthcare system because if
you have dual sensory impairment, then you have more trouble
in hospital. You have poorer health and wellbeing and you
have more accidents, and you're at risk of cognitive decline
if you're not supported properly. So that all costs a
lot of money. So there's a lot of good reasons

(45:54):
for coming up with programs and communication assistance and social support.
And that's sort of the area that we've been working
on alongside carers support as well, because it's very stressful
being a carer of someone who has a less than
visible disability that's not thought of as a disability and

(46:17):
is often not put together in a constructive way that says, hey,
this is a unique and distinct disability and it has
complicated and challenging support needs. And Moira's work, um, is
really at addressing a lot of those complex needs, especially

(46:40):
for carers.

S1 (46:41):
Um, we left leave it there for this time. Moira.
If people want to get more information, is there a
place they can go to find out more about what
is going on in this space?

S9 (46:50):
Yes. I was hoping to say that we are desperate, um,
to recruit for the Hal Kendig study, which is the
study that's looking specifically at carers and older people with
dual sensory impairment so they can find me through my emails.
Probably easiest at Moira Dunsmore at Sydney. That's probably the

(47:14):
easiest place.

S7 (47:16):
We'll put that information.

S1 (47:17):
Up with our show notes.

S10 (47:18):
They can also go through the website as well. My
W-w-w-what do I.

S7 (47:28):
We'll put that up with.

S10 (47:29):
Some more information and also access to information on any on, uh,
Moira's um, project and any of the other projects that
people are interested in.

S1 (47:40):
Marie, thank you so much for your time. Moira, thank
you so much for yours. We'll chat again in about
a month.

S8 (47:45):
Thank you. Lovely. See you soon.

S1 (47:47):
Anne-Marie. And also, uh, we've got, uh, Maura Dunsmore from
the University of Sydney with the very important project about
deaf and hearing impaired and blind and vision impaired. All
that information up with our show notes. Let's talk about
mobility and technology. Saddam Ahmed is the principal for Accessible

(48:10):
Technology Solutions Enterprises and Saddam is on the line. Saddam,
always great to chat. Thanks for your time.

S11 (48:15):
Good to chat with you. It's a mouthful, so thank
you very much. It's always good to be with you. Uh, Peter.

S1 (48:20):
You got a big business card.

S11 (48:21):
I reckon that's the one where it's quite lengthy. Football field.

S1 (48:25):
Yeah, I saw them. Um, I was looking up a
bit of information that the white cane came about in
the 1940s in Australia. Guide dogs since the 1960s. Um,
what about technology? You've got some thoughts in that area,
how it might help with mobility.

S11 (48:38):
I do some very exciting news that is very much
in its infancy. The product is called gliders or glide
for short, and it's currently in alpha form, which is
before beta form. So it's still in the early stages,
but it's got significant backing. The people behind it have
worked at Microsoft before as well, so they're very well known.

(49:00):
They're the guys behind the seeing AI app. Yeah, beautiful
applications of all time. And essentially it is the next
revolution or evolution revolution of the of the, you know,
the Canaan dog because, you know, it's very useful and
very valuable, but it's akin to a horse and buggy now.
So guidance is essentially a robotic device in its simplest form.

(49:23):
It has cameras, I believe, 4 or 5 cameras and sensors.
You hold on to the handle or harness, I guess,
to use a guide dog term. You wear a headset,
a discreet headset that will give you audio form, and
basically using sensors like a gyroscope and other sensors, it
will guide you around obstacles, which is really, really intriguing

(49:47):
if people can search guidance on YouTube. There's lot of
videos there. They can sort of Google search and read
about it. But the literature is amazing. And there's a
concept to sort of make a digital guide dog is
something that I think is, you know, as well as
things I akin to the iPhone getting VoiceOver, I think,
all over again.

S1 (50:05):
Wow. So do you think that it'll be a bit
more like, um, a thing you can use on its own,
or it would be in conjunction with a guide dog
or cane?

S11 (50:14):
No, it's you know, it's I think, you know, obviously
you have to have good mobility skills all the time.
So I think, you know, people that are, you know,
the cane will never go anywhere for I think for
and there'll be always a proponent of the community that
wants a cane, the dog because that's what people are
used to and that's their comfort zone. That's what Owen
was built upon. But this works with an application on
your smartphone. So the application, uh, talks to the, the device,

(50:37):
the robotic, uh, the dog in this case or the
or the the, um, the the the gizmo. And it
gets it's all it's software updates and it gets its
smarts and it's continuous improvement so that you know what
they will ship in. Hopefully by the end of this year.

S1 (50:54):
Wow.

S11 (50:54):
In the US, um, you know, it's probably a big
or small business on a product. And having learned about
product marketing. Things can change on a whim. Yeah, they
do have significant backing from Microsoft. They do have significant backing, um,
you know, from the community. And, you know, it gives
me confidence that since they have made Seeing Eye, which
is a synonymous app of excellence, that this won't be
a pie in the sky kind of notion, because sometimes

(51:17):
in our community, we have people that come up with
ideas and it never really makes it to. Or if
it makes it to proof of concept, you know, it's
hideously expensive. And but a lot of R&D has been
spent on this. And, you know, they spoke to a
packed crowd at CSUN in 2023, another packed crowd in 2024.
And I think no one knows. And I hate to

(51:39):
bring out numbers, but I've heard about 1,500 USD for
as as a as a starting price. So for I
think what they're aiming for and the market that they
want to capture, because a lot of people or some
people don't have a guide dog or would like to
get one but don't don't have one and have, you know,
persist with the humble cane, which is a good tool.
But what the way they're aiming and the ambitions, auspicious

(52:02):
ambitions they have is if they can pull it off,
which I want to be optimistic and I think they will, because,
you know, product marketing works in very mysterious ways. But
people people don't really, you know, if you think about
what it takes to bring an iPhone to concept and sell,
you know, millions more of those which they wouldn't sell.
You know, it's a smaller market market. But the planning
and execution and what they're aiming for is, is very

(52:24):
lofty and very exciting. Just reading about it and watching
YouTube videos is amazing.

S1 (52:29):
What about as far as the the individual goes? So
I guess they'd need a bit of technical skills. And
also the other thing is if you're getting feedback from
the device, the gizmo, I like that word. Yes, you're
getting feedback from the gizmo. I guess you've got to
be able to kind of, you know, read what it's
saying in terms of, Yeah. Uh, well, maybe not so
much read, but kind of, uh, distinguish or determine what

(52:51):
it's saying via the messages you're getting.

S11 (52:54):
That's right. You know, you'll be getting audio. I do
believe you'll also be getting haptic feedback or vibrations, uh,
which are sort of similar, akin to what you get
on the iPhone or the Apple Watch, the Apple Watch.
They call it tactical haptic feedback. So you no doubt
you would have to have good mobility skills because, you know,
it'll it'll, you know, if you were dropped in the
southeast of, you know, Sydney or wherever you were, wherever

(53:15):
you are in this great, beautiful nation of ours, you'd
have to know, you know, North is behind you, right?
And also fairly substantial. Good. Good technology skills, I'd say.
But look, you know, I don't have specific figures. I,
you know, I don't work for Apple, but I say
a good majority of the, of the community, maybe 80% maybe,
as at a guess would have an iPhone. And, you know,
it works with with the device you have and if

(53:36):
not now something I do believe, you know, there's a
feeling that I have that something's coming and this product
has a, you know, a good chance of being a disruptor.
Just like the iPhone was. And just like, you know,
jaws is. And just like the people, the good people
in VR. Because what they're doing. And that's a disruptor, right?
So you know, but all of these things come in

(53:58):
once in a while. And I think this, this, this
sort of situation is ripe for innovation. And it's sort
of akin to what happened to Nokia. Nokia is gone now. So,
you know, they didn't see it coming. They didn't see
it coming either.

S1 (54:07):
Yeah. No, it's a very good point. I guess it's
one of those things where, you know, I was thinking
about this before and, you know, 20 years ago, if
you said you're going to get a piece of equipment
that is totally flat screen, no buttons on the face
of it, you're going to be able to ring a
ring out on it or go the internet on it.
You would have said, well, that's no good for a
person who's blind.

S11 (54:27):
That's right. I mean, I remember, you know, we all
went through it. I had talks, you know, we had
to get talks and we had to get mobile speak,
and then you had to, you know, you had to
get software put on to it. And before, you know,
before you walk out the door, you spend $600. Yeah.
What it cost you a friend or you know, your auntie? $160,
you know. So we've come a long way. And that's
what gives me faith is, you know, today's in fact,

(54:48):
funnily enough, Global Accessibility Awareness Day. And so to have
that sort of, you know, revolution and to to sort
of just it just blows my mind. I mean, if
we had, if I had some of the stuff that
I have now when I was at school, you know,
I'd be an astronaut now.

S1 (55:01):
Well, that might happen in 10 or 20 years time,
so stay tuned for that. But that's that's such a
great point, isn't I mean, and also obviously, you know,
people would be aware technology moves so quickly doesn't that
you can never say never because no someone's going to
prove you wrong.

S11 (55:15):
That's right. That's right. And and with artificial intelligence and
wearable tech, I mean, I was reading an article where
the screen may be just vanishing. We may just wear
glasses and just and just, you know, sort of make
gestures in the air. The gestures that you make on
the screen will be on the air, you know. And
and so it's a I'm just really excited to see
the innovation that's coming out of a lot of places
like Europe and America. And, you know, a little bit

(55:38):
I think we're because we're so far away from all
of us, we're sometimes already behind. But it's good to
see what's coming down the pipeline. Because sooner or later
it will get to this beautiful, you know, beautiful land
of ours.

S1 (55:48):
So it's the sort of thing also that, you know,
for people who are blind or low vision that are
prepared to kind of move with the times. Yes. They're
the ones that are going to drive this as well.

S11 (55:57):
Absolutely. Yeah. The pioneers and you know, the the people
that embrace a case in point I embraced Apple Pay
in 2014. You know, well before sort of even the
you know, the first bank was ANZ to get it
and I got it. So and I haven't looked back since.
So like I know the fear and the uncertainty that
a certain member members of our community will feel, um,

(56:18):
when this sort of technology is blossoming. But I would
really encourage anyone to just, just just embrace it, you know,
it's going to be difficult. I mean, my mother was,
you know, people of multicultural faiths, you know, multicultural, coming
to a different country. They it was fearful for her
as well. She would she would we integrate it, see
it back in 96. That's 20 years ago, you know.

(56:39):
So embrace it and it won't be easy. And there
will be, you know. But it is going to be
one of those if you you don't beat him. You're
joining me sort of thing. You see, I.

S1 (56:48):
Think that's a good point. Would it say you think
it'd kind of be, uh, running off, uh, running off,
sort of connected to satellite or getting feedback from or
feeding information from the satellite?

S11 (56:59):
That's right. So the there's going to be a lot
of quite intricate sensors in the device. There's going to
be gyroscope, and there's going to be an accelerometer, and
there's going to be, um, you know, cameras. I probably
waged 3 or 4 cameras on the device. So if
doing a lot of computing, uh, not only what's around you, but,
you know, distances and all the stuff that goes into it,

(57:22):
moving around angles and all that stuff. And, you know,
it's getting getting beyond my, my intelligent pay grade, but physics, physics, physics, physics.

S1 (57:30):
Yeah.

S11 (57:31):
So it'd be measuring all that. So it's doing a
lot of computing. So we'd have a very, you know,
powerful central processing unit. But you know, to, to miniaturize
all of that into a sleek device that you can
sort of harness or grab onto a handle of a
guide dog size is hugely ambitious and also hugely complicated.
So I was reading a few comments on Applevis, which

(57:52):
is a well known blog for AI for people of
our community. And some people say, well, it's taking so long,
what's happening? You know, it was was talked about in
season 22, but, you know, we haven't seen anything. I
and I sort of, you know, wrote my sort of
in the comments. I said, no, I'm happy to wait.
You know, I this is not an easy you know,
this is not like getting a bread from Woolworths. You know,
this is big stuff. And I'm glad that someone, somewhere

(58:15):
or Amos who used to work for Microsoft is tackling this. And,
you know, this is the kind of stuff that we
need to sort of break through because for whatever reason,
there's a lot of extraneous variables where people don't have
a guide dog, even I would like one, but it's
not extraneous variables involved, and you just persist. You know,
you have to you have to get through life. So
when there's people like this wanting to make the world

(58:36):
a better place, And I think Apple's mantra is, you know,
we leave the world a better place than we found it.
This is a very apt analogy for that.

S1 (58:44):
What about as far as, uh, anything sort of, uh,
in the near future from Apple? Do you sense that
it'd be this, uh, so just as it called the glide, is.

S11 (58:54):
It, uh, guidance? Yes. Guidance or glide for short?

S1 (58:57):
Yeah. Do you sense it's kind of an independent product? Uh,
as in it?

S11 (59:01):
It is. But I also think that, you know, just
with Apple's breadth and scope and, you know, Apple's a juggernaut.
They're very different to the, you know, 2007 when the
when the Mac voiceover and 2009 that absolute you know, behemoth,
they all have an influence the trajectory of this project
because it will rely on the app. You know, there
are going to obviously target the Android later on, but

(59:23):
obviously they want to. The bigger the big market, they
want the big, big boys. And so it will, you know,
be going to the iPhone and that will have a,
you know, a positive effect because the iPhone is such
a sleek operating system. So it will, you know, indirectly,
I definitely I'm sure in their product marketing and their
in their round table, you know, they're thinking about the

(59:45):
iPhone and how best the collaboration can be in terms of,
you know, getting the app into, into as many hands
as they can and also promoting it that way.

S1 (59:54):
Another thing is that people are thinking like this. I mean,
you kind of need big thinkers, don't you? I mean,
you know, we can kind of think, oh, that's a
long way off. I'm not sure whether it'll work, but
you need someone to have that, that, you know, that
big picture thought in their mind. And or maybe it
might take ten years, but, you know, it's got to
start somewhere.

S11 (01:00:10):
Well, I mean, it's funny you say that. I mean,
I was an advocacy project, you know, about five years ago,
bringing Braille to to medical, no medical boxes. And the
other day I went to the chemist and. Oh, yeah,
I got Braille on my, my medication. That was, you know,
that's five years in the making. So I thought I'd
never see that. You know, it should be ten years ago,
but now it's here. You know, I can read and,
you know, a field where if you if you take

(01:00:32):
the wrong dosage, you're in trouble, you know. Yeah. It's
a huge win. But it took me it took them
almost 20,000 testing and roundtables where we got there. But
it sort of feels you can't describe the elation when
when something big like this happens and you that it's
not a win for me, but it's a win for
the generation growing up now.

S1 (01:00:50):
Well, it's independence, isn't it? I mean, independence in your
quality of life. And I mean, we often talk about
on programs like this and in, in any sort of sphere,
but you can't really put a price on it. And
unless you experience it, you probably can't really explain it.

S11 (01:01:03):
You can't explain all the all the all the words voracious,
all those big words. It doesn't it doesn't give it
justice and and it doesn't get, you know, the feeling
is better than typical salary.

S1 (01:01:11):
Yeah, well, I'm not sure about that.

S11 (01:01:14):
But I mean, that's a bit of hyperbole.

S1 (01:01:17):
But I, I said I'm good to catch up now
people want to find out more about you or the
great work you do. Well, how can we get in
touch with you?

S11 (01:01:25):
Yes, people can go to WW dot technology Solutions.com just
like how it sounds And that way, the best way
to find me. And I'm going through a big redevelopment
of the website as well so people can can reach
me there. They can also email me at at midcom.
That's a d at d h m.com.

S1 (01:01:52):
Always great to catch up. I'm sure it won't be
too long before we speak again. In fact, I had
you marked down at Habitat in June when the Big
Apple event is on, so I'll give you a call soon.

S11 (01:02:01):
Absolutely. Thank you very much, Peter. All the best, Eurostar.
Thank you.

S1 (01:02:04):
I said Mama Bear from Accessible Technology Solutions. Tell us about. Well,
maybe the way mobility and technology might come together and
make life even better for people who are blind or
have low vision. Our audio describes show of the week
this Sunday evening, 730 on SBS. Main channel. Elizabeth Taylor,

(01:02:26):
rebel superstar. Now this features Elizabeth Taylor, one of the
first people going public with her life, particularly talking about
her loves and tribulations and relationships and break ups and
challenges and other things that went on in her life.
So that's coming up this Sunday evening. 730 SBS Main

(01:02:47):
Channel with the audio description right here M Elizabeth Taylor
Rebel Superstar coming up with audio description just for you.
Some birthdays before we go. Liz Tripodi having a birthday.
What a wonderful advocate and role model. So Liz happy
birthday to you. Also James Murphy having a birthday. Doctor

(01:03:09):
James Muki, the 2020 Australian of the year does great
work with the site for all foundation. James, a very
big happy birthday to you. A couple of fine cricketers
of days of yore having birthdays. Cameron and Vaughn Rose
brothers having a birthday. So I think actually we got
Cameron on the list to speak to in the next
week or two. So, Doctor Cameron, happy birthday to you.

(01:03:31):
Happy birthday to you as well. And gentlemen, John Bastian's
having a birthday by an old scholar from Townshend. Going way,
way back. Well, not that far back. John, thanks for
all the great work you've done on this program, particularly
in the early days of it. And, um, hope you
are going especially well. Happy birthday, John Bastions. That's it
for the programme. Sam, Richard, thanks so much for your help.

(01:03:52):
Pam Green, thanks so much for yours. Reminding you that
Focal Point is available on your favorite podcast platform. Please
tell a friend or two about the show. We always
like to have more listeners on behalf of Philip Napier.
And a big cheerio to Wendy McDougall listening in. This
is Peter Greco saying, be kind to yourselves, be thoughtful
and look out for others on the Australian network and

(01:04:16):
the Reading Radio Network. This is focal point.