27 Aug 2025

On FOCAL POINT:

• Jenny Pengilly invited all to attend the inclusive; sensory rich; and fun exhibition "Popcorn" at the White Chapel  Gallery.
• Tracy Wallace, Strategy Leader at JFA Purple Orange, responded to the Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence Royal Commission.
• Dr Annmaree Watharow is looking forward to the first Dual Sensory Impairment Conference "Filling in the gaps-and joining the dots" in November at the University of Sydney.
• Phil Vandepeer, co-founder and co-presenter for Focal Point, shared his views on Thriving Kids; political moves in South Australia and the parliamentary mid-winter Ball.  

Resources:

Popcorn: https://www.whitechapelgallery.org/exhibitions/popcorn/ 

JFA Purple Orange: http://www.purpleorange.org.au 

Filling in the Gaps-and Joining the Dots: Email: [e-mail] or go to: https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/filling-in-the-gaps-and-joining-the-dots-tickets-1459528391709?aff=oddtdtcreator 

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

S1 (00:23):
Good evening and welcome to Focal Point here on Business Radio.
Radio 1190 7 a.m. Adelaide, online at Via Radio Digital
Adelaide in Darwin through the Community Radio Plus app. Look
for Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide also your favorite podcast service
and through the Reading Radio Network you can always find

(00:44):
us there as well. Peter Greco, on behalf of Phillip
Vandepeer saying thank you so much for making time to
tune in this program coming to you from Garner Land.
Come to you very shortly. We'll go all the way
to the UK and catch up with Jenny Pengilly, who
talks about an art exhibition called popcorn. It's tactile, it's audio,
it's inclusive. If you're over in the UK, you might

(01:06):
get a chance to go along. Then we'll talk about
a very serious topic from the JFA purple orange Tracy
Wallace will join us, who's a very, uh, excellent and
skilled advocate. Tracy will talk about the family, domestic and
sexual violence royal commission and the report that was handed
down with recommendations. Will talk about that with Tracy shortly,

(01:28):
then catch up with Anne Marie Witherow from Deafblind Association,
talking about her issues dealing with deaf blindness and a
conference coming up in November. A chance for you to
go along. Anne Marie will give us all those details
and the sort of topics that will be discussed. Then
Phil Vanderpyl will join us, co-founder and co-presenter for Focal Point.
Lots of things for Phil to talk about, including politics,

(01:51):
thriving kids, and, uh, if you're listening on a Wednesday evening,
there's the Midwinter's ball happening at Parliament House at the moment.
Maybe some, uh, auction items will get Phil's opinions about that.
If you're listening through 1190 7 a.m. in Adelaide at
8:00 for your listening pleasure, Lucy and Sam are here
with Studio One. In fact, they're here right now to

(02:12):
tell us what's coming up on studio one.

S2 (02:17):
We chat to Lily piccolo, an old friend of the show,
about her many adventures and her experience as a coach
at Camp Abilities in the US. She tells us about
how she became involved and shared some of her favorite
memories of the camp.

S3 (02:31):
So join us at eight for Studio One.

S1 (02:34):
Well, I'm absolutely delighted to go all the way to
the UK and to chat about the Whitechapel Gallery and
an exhibition they've got at the moment. Jenny Pink is
on the line. Jenny, welcome and thank you so much
for your time.

S4 (02:47):
Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for inviting me over.

S1 (02:50):
Yeah. The popcorn exhibition, I mean, just the name is
kind of getting people in anyway, isn't it?

S4 (02:56):
Um, yeah. The name came from. Well, several reasons. Um, one,
because it's, it's quite energetic, like the idea of a
kernel popping is kind of, um, very much my approach
to running workshops for children and adults, you know, trying
to get a lot of energy, but also like the
sound it makes. And, um, also a lot of I've

(03:16):
worked with a lot of children and my niece and
we used to use the song popcorn to help her
get dressed in the morning. There's a nice electronic, uh,
music history there as well with the songs, though.

S1 (03:31):
I'm sure many people would recognize. I think it's probably
a worldwide hit. Jenny.

S4 (03:34):
It is? Yeah. Hopefully, I reckon.

S1 (03:37):
What's this about the exhibition now? You said kids, adults, uh,
you know, very inclusive in terms of, uh, people with disabilities.
Tell us a bit about it and some of the
kind of features in it.

S4 (03:46):
Yeah. So I've been working with adults and children for
many years now in different contexts, like schools, museums, galleries, uh,
children's centres. And I've worked quite a lot with um,
schools for special educational needs and disability students. So this
exhibition was working with families in Whitechapel in London and

(04:09):
also with a school, Phoenix School, which is a school
for children with autism. And we were exploring sounds, so
we made a lot of the shows inspired by foley
artists who make the sound effects for films. So things
like the sound of people walking or the clothes rustling
or props being moved about. And so yeah, we we

(04:32):
did a lot of like material play where we sort
of played with different, um, materials and used, uh, record
audio recorders to explore what kind of sounds things make
and what they remind us of. And we also made a,
some puppets, and we made a silent film so that

(04:52):
people could make the sounds to the film in the exhibition.
And then the whole exhibition itself is, uh, yeah, lots
of drawings. The children did, the families did to make up, uh, bands.
So we made, like, song lyrics and made up band
names and drew and collaged lots of album artwork and

(05:16):
did a lot of audio recordings and foley recordings. So
that is all in the show as well. And that
sort of forms part of the the walls and the
textile hangings. And when you're in the show, there's a
lot of, uh, props. So things it's sort of been
based around a Foley artist's studio where they have tons

(05:37):
of if you ever look up the pictures, there's tons of, like,
unusual objects and everyday objects, and there's a mixture of
props that I've made and objects for people to handle
and make sounds with. And then there's a recording area
where people can record them and also use their voice
to explore what kind of sounds they can make. So yeah,

(06:00):
I wanted it to be as accessible as possible, really.
I mean, one of the things that I like working
with Sen schools is that everyone's just got such an
interesting ways of like sort of approaching things and their
ideas and interests. So I think and sound is a
really nice thing to be able to kind of really

(06:21):
use your imagination or kind of focus on something. So
using things like headphones or audio equipment, you can kind
of amplify the experience, which makes it a bit more
involved for people. And then the tactile element, you know,
using all the materials is very nice for lots of students.
Like some really enjoy need that like sensory stimulation and

(06:47):
to kind of regulate themselves. So we've got things like
beaded curtains in the show which are very popular. You
can kind of like run through them or kind of
stroke them. And there's some furniture which is there like
kind of big cushions, but they've got different sounds when
you sit on them. So yeah, there's lots of different

(07:08):
areas that you can kind of explore. You can go
full on loud, uh, or you can do, you know,
the sort of more gentle sounds and the focused sounds.

S1 (07:18):
But what about the response that you've had from people
that have come through? I guess you almost go without necessarily, uh,
having any anticipation of what it's going to be like.
And if you kind of go in with an open mind, uh, every,
every minute is a surprise.

S4 (07:32):
Yeah. Well, I think that's it. I just, I like
to keep it as open really as possible. So it is.
And that's kind of part of it accessible isn't it. Is.
And inclusive is. There's no like predetermined way to experience it.
People can come in and kind of do whatever they like,
like they can. You know, a lot of the younger

(07:52):
children have stacked all the props together or made a
den out for the cushions or, you know, um, some
people just like in the recording booth for ages, just
like looping their voice. So yeah, I mean, the idea
is that you can kind of respond to it in
any way. And when you're listening to the sounds as
well that, you know, you can make up whatever they're for,

(08:15):
you know, some of it is very imaginary and you
have to make up sounds for things that don't exist. Yeah.

S1 (08:22):
Yeah. Cool cool cool.

S4 (08:23):
Now, like monsters and, you know, all the films, like
my films or whatever, you have to kind of, uh,
be quite inventive.

S1 (08:30):
And in terms of, uh, people who might be blind
or have low vision, that that tactile element is so
important as well, isn't it?

S4 (08:36):
Yeah. And, um, one thing I'd really like to do
as well is more kind of verbal description and kind
of audio tours, but yeah, it's very, um, very tactile.
I mean, I think it's kind of a shame that
there's not more kind of tactile hands on experiences in
especially in galleries and museums. It tends to be very,

(08:59):
you know, visually focused.

S1 (09:01):
Yeah.

S4 (09:01):
I think sound still is one of those things that
is quite new to people. Like everyone really to like,
really listen and really think about the sounds of things.
And yeah, the tactile as well is like a whole
other like sensory experience, you know, feeling the temperatures and
the textures and the responding to them. And so I

(09:22):
love all of that stuff is like very rich to me,
trying to, you know, involve as many of the senses
as possible.

S1 (09:29):
Um, well, where where did the inspiration for this come from, Jenny?

S4 (09:32):
Well, I think for years I've been working, like I said,
with lots of different groups and not wanting to kind
of be a teacher in a traditional sense of like
telling people what to do. But I use a lot
of materials and to get people to be creative and
think about ideas. So it's it's about their response to

(09:54):
the materials and kind of building things out of that.
So I think my interest in materials and sounds and
has made me interested in foley artists, so a lot
of it has been based around that. And also, I've
got this radio show called Experimental Teens and Children, which

(10:14):
is on a RTM FM in London, which is sort
of associated with the gallery in London, Thamesmead. And I've
found loads of music by children that I found really inspiring.
They don't have as many inhibitions, you know, it's very open.
And I think that their energy and excitement and freedom

(10:36):
is kind of inspired quite a lot of the show.

S1 (10:38):
Yeah. That's such a great point. Isn't that freedom? Isn't it? Because,
I mean, I guess the whole point of being creative
is that there are no barriers. There are no filters
in a sense.

S4 (10:45):
No. That's right. And but there's also, I think, good
to have some be generous, you know, by providing things
for people and that they can respond to and and
having some I think sometimes it's good to have some
limitations because then people, it can be overwhelming, can't it?
Too much?

S1 (11:03):
Sure. Yeah yeah.

S4 (11:04):
Yeah. I think having freedom in the when creatively, creatively. Anyway,
I think having different options that people can engage with
in their own way is, is kind of my approach.

S1 (11:18):
How big is it, if you like, in terms of size?
I'm just thinking, could you pack it up and take
it around the world?

S4 (11:23):
I mean, happily, if someone wanted to bring me to
Australia happily come. Well.

S1 (11:27):
More people might speak to your people. Except they don't
know any people that might be able to afford it.

S4 (11:32):
Yeah, well, I would, I would love to come. But also, um,
one of the things that's nice about Foley is that
you can do this at home. Yeah. So, you know,
if you are at home and you just explore, pick
up some objects or things around the house and, you know,
just sort of play with them and see, you know,
tap them, shake them, see what sounds you can make really.

(11:55):
And that's kind of part of the the show is
sort of saying, you know, this exists everywhere, and it's
just sort of teaching you how to play with the
things around you and, and start listening a bit more
and thinking about like, yeah.

S1 (12:08):
And when we talk about being inclusive, I guess we're
kind of being inclusive, even in a financial sense. I mean,
you don't have to be buying expensive things that you
can shake or rattle or play with, make sounds with.
It can be very, uh, you know, sort of egalitarian
in that sense as well.

S4 (12:25):
Yeah. And I think that is a lot of folks
in my work as well. I just want to be
accessible in that way as well. So, I mean, you
can I think I've become quite interested in the voice
as well and using your voice because, you know, that's
something that everyone, well, most people have or like, if
you've got your body and you can tap it and
get your fingers and you can like, see what you

(12:48):
can do with your voice and yeah, and just anything
around it. I think it's just experimenting, really. It's amazing
what people can do. I'm still learning, but I mean,
it's amazing what people can do with very little.

S1 (12:59):
They are limited by one's imagination. I guess if we
go back far enough. I mean, you know, of course
there were just, um, if you like rudimentary instruments, but,
you know, the, the sort of more modern instruments that
they're probably particularly the, uh, sort of, uh, techno electro
stuff is more in, in more recent decades. So if
you go back far enough, I guess we were using
our voice and our bodies to make sound and make music.

S4 (13:22):
Yeah, exactly. Like, you've got all the, um, like, rough
bands there. That was more like a sort of protest thing, but,
you know, using pots and pans. Yeah. Spoons or. Yeah.
Like just tapping your, your thigh or your feet or,
you know. Yeah. Just thinking about, like, what you can. Yeah.
You could I mean, it really is like quite expansive

(13:43):
and even things that. Yeah, like you have in your house,
you know, any like clothes or just a cardboard box,
you can do a lot with very little with what
I've learned over the years.

S5 (13:54):
Yeah.

S1 (13:54):
Well, what about, uh, the exhibition? It's on for a
little bit longer. In fact, another month or so. Um,
is it easy to find if people are visiting London?

S4 (14:03):
Oh, yes. If you are visiting, it's in Aldgate East,
which is like East London. It's quite central and it's
on until September the 21st. So it's we've got a
whole month left and it's free. So you can um,
come and it's open late on Thursdays as well. And
I should mention as well, there's um, one of the

(14:23):
nice things about this show is it's quite big, so
you can kind of move around it, but there's also
a room attached which you can like. It's more like
chill out area. So you can, you know, when it
when the sounds get too much or it's too colourful,
then you can go in there and like take some
time out as well.

S1 (14:41):
Here in Australia we call them relaxed. Relaxed sessions.

S4 (14:44):
Relaxed sessions. Yeah there's a lot of that. The whole
show is kind of a relaxed session in a way.

S1 (14:50):
So you're catering for all disabilities. I mean it's very
sort of imaginative and innovative in a sense. Or not
in a sense, it is full stop.

S4 (14:58):
Yeah. I mean, like I was saying, I just think
there should be more ways into art, you know, whether
that is like more sign language sessions, more verbal description,
more like being able to touch the work and interact physically. Yeah,
all of that. So I just think everyone would benefit
from that. It sort of makes the experiences a lot

(15:19):
more rich. So yeah, I will be continuing to try
and keep doing that. And yeah, hopefully more people will
like think about those sort of, um, ways to access these, um,
different sort of cultural events.

S1 (15:33):
Is there a cost to come along?

S4 (15:35):
No, it's totally free. Yeah, yeah, yeah, lots, lots of
other things to explore in the gallery as well.

S1 (15:41):
Well, we appreciate you spending a little bit of time
with us. So you certainly sounds like you're pretty passionate
about it. You've got a lot of energy and a
lot of enthusiasm, which is coming through the, uh, the,
the fine line.

S4 (15:51):
Of.

S1 (15:52):
Really?

S5 (15:52):
Yeah.

S4 (15:53):
Oh. Thank you. Yeah. No, it's it's very important to, uh,
talk about this stuff. And it is. It's exciting creatively
as well. All of this sensory stuff. So thanks for
being interested.

S1 (16:05):
Thank you for making yourself available. We almost feel like
we've been part of it. So that's a great thing.
And as I say, if anyone is, uh, well, maybe
they on their way to London or they're planning to
get to London in the next few weeks. Uh, check
it out. The Whitechapel Gallery.

S4 (16:19):
Uh, thanks so much.

S1 (16:20):
Jenny. Love to talk to you. We wish you well.
And who knows, we might speak again in the future.

S4 (16:24):
Oh. Please do. Yeah.

S1 (16:25):
Yeah. Well, when you get over here with your exhibition,
we can, uh, meet face to face.

S4 (16:30):
Lovely. Yeah, right. You make that happen for me.

S5 (16:32):
All right.

S1 (16:34):
No pressure. There from the Whitechapel Gallery. That exhibition is
called popcorn. Sounds like a lot of fun. Sounds like
very inclusive. Sounds like something that, um, there should be
more of. With the Royal Commission report is in for
domestic family and sexual violence and the recommendations are also in.

(16:56):
Let's chat a bit about it with the leader of
strategy at JFA purple. Orange. Leading advocates the organisation in
South Australia. Tracy. Wallace. Tracy. Lovely to meet you and
thank you for your time.

S6 (17:06):
Hi, Peter. Great to be here.

S5 (17:08):
What were your.

S1 (17:08):
First reactions or responses when you kind of started to
read this report?

S6 (17:13):
Yeah. Look, um, our first reactions were really that we
very much welcome the report. We from a sort of
disability perspective, um, we were really pleased to see the
report really recognised a lot of the additional barriers to
people with disability face, um, when accessing uh, systems to
support them. And there were a number of sort of

(17:33):
disability specific recommendations made within the report. We were really
also excited to see a real focus on on co-design
and that very much sort of leading the way forward, etc..
So generally in general, we were pleased to see the
report from from the commission.

S5 (17:50):
Because.

S1 (17:51):
Probably people with disabilities will be overrepresented in this kind
of area in terms of being at the hands of
domestic violence.

S6 (17:59):
Correct? Yeah. So the report really talks about the fact
that people and it's something that we obviously already knew,
people with disability are certainly overrepresented in the domestic violence space.
So it was good to see the recognition of that
I guess within the report.

S1 (18:14):
What about as far as some of the recommendations go,
whether there are quite a few of them, and often
with these reports and recommendations, it takes a while to
kind of trawl through them and then sort of prioritize them.

S6 (18:24):
Yeah, it absolutely does. There were a lot of recommendations.
We were pleased to see that disability. So accessibility and
inclusion was really embedded really well within a number of
the recommendations. So one thing that we thought that was
done that we were really pleased to see was the
fact that they've really sort of put the lens of

(18:46):
accessibility and inclusion across a number of the recommendations. So
sometimes what we see in a disability space is people
wanting to set up siloed projects or sort of side
projects to be able to support people with disability within
the community. But a far better approach is to really
think about how do we make sure our mainstream services
and our mainstream responses are accessible and inclusive of people

(19:07):
with disability so that they, too, can access the services
that they need? So it was really great to see
a number of the recommendations made at that point and
really did that. And then there were some sort of
disability specific recommendations around undertaking an audit of services to
make sure they were accessible, and some various other things
that sort of really spoke to some of the additional

(19:27):
barriers people with disability face.

S1 (19:29):
The number of people listening in tonight or whenever they're listening,
trash would say, well, of course those sort of things
should be considered. But I guess I often say on
this program, uh, you know, those of us with the
disability kind of live in a bit of an echo chamber,
and we kind of think that everyone knows that this
sort of stuff. But, you know, I guess unless you're
touched by generally or specifically, you probably don't know about it.

(19:52):
So these sort of things, it's good when they are
picked up and pointed out.

S6 (19:55):
Yeah. That's right. And look, while, you know, sometimes when
we say these things, like you said, it feels almost obvious.
What we do know as well is that service responses. Also,
there's still a tendency to to push towards, um, dealing
with disability as a separate issue. And look, that comes
from the fact that for a long time, people with
disability were segregated within community, and we still see aspects

(20:17):
of that, um, happening. So, um, while people might sort
of say, yes, well, the obvious response is that that
this should be happening. We should always be thinking about access, inclusion.
The reality is that it's not always the case. So
it was good to see that that is really something
that they, they're taking seriously. Um, through the report.

S1 (20:33):
Well, I guess in something like a report with this
sort of clout, if you like, uh, recognize that and
credit to Natasha Stott Despoja for doing that, that that
kind of gives it a bit more gravitas, doesn't it?

S6 (20:43):
Yeah, absolutely. Um, look, it really does. So credit to
the commission for for really pushing that forward.

S1 (20:50):
I know that Natasha was also very quick to point
out that it was a team that put it together.
So not just Natasha, but to the team. Well done
on that. Now, of course, the government called for it.
So it was handed in to the governor and then
the state government, and they now, you know, going to
make it public, etc.. What about in terms of I
was going to say whose responsibility it is now? I
guess it's everyone's responsibility. Is the government's maybe plural in

(21:13):
terms of, you know, particularly in South Australia, state and
local governments, they can do so much. But I guess
it's a societal responsibility.

S6 (21:21):
Yeah. Look, it absolutely is. So, um, and it's a
really important thing to remember that, um, the whole community
plays a role in, um, keeping people safe within the community. Obviously,
we want to see that the government leads in this space,
and they do have a responsibility for, uh, to lead
from the front and make sure that they respond to
this report with a sense of urgency, uh, with funding

(21:43):
attached to it and all the elements that are needed
to actually drive change in the sector. But like you've
just said, um, absolutely. The whole society has a role.
Violence isn't just a women's issue. It's not a disability,
not just a disability issue. It's really a community issue.
And the whole of society needs to be part of
the response. We need to be challenging ableism. We need

(22:04):
to be shifting attitudes. We need to be challenging gender inequality. Um,
we need to stop segregating people with disability, making sure
that our communities are accessible and inclusive for them. We
know that inclusive communities are a really strong safeguard for, um,
violence and abuse against people with disability. And all of
our community has a role to play in making sure

(22:26):
that we're creating inclusive and accessible spaces for everybody to,
to come to.

S1 (22:32):
And of course, violence isn't just physical violence. I mean,
that's bad enough, of course, but it's not just the
physical side of violence that, um, that has an impact.

S6 (22:40):
Yeah. That's right. Violence can come in in lots of
different ways. And the report certainly highlights highlights that. So yes,
looking at violence in in all in all the different
ways is really important.

S1 (22:52):
You talked about maybe one of the sort of, well,
not so much ticklish, but one of the maybe sensitive issues,
if you like, is funding. How important is that that, uh,
some of the, the recommendations and the things that come
from that are funded in the correct way?

S6 (23:06):
Yeah. So funding is obviously so important. So without the funding, really,
this report remains, um, words on a piece of paper.
So the government really does need to commit to funding, um,
the actions that they commit to taking in response to the,
the report. So they've obviously already made some commitments around
some funding and some some actions or some recommendations that

(23:28):
they've immediately accepted. But that really that is very much
the start. So for this, um, for the response to
this report, to have any impact, they, they really need
to be looking at what the long term funding is
that needs to be attached to really driving change in
this space.

S1 (23:45):
And this is probably stuff that maybe up until now
wouldn't be in budgets, for example. I mean, this report's
only come down in the last few days. The recommendations
and the costs of some of the recommendations are probably
something that is going into the future. So it might
need kind of fresh money if I can put it
that way.

S6 (24:01):
Yeah. That's right. So I think there was some money
included in the budget in the last budget, but it
really is the the standing up of structures to respond
to the report. It um, it won't be enough to
really drive actions going forward. So yeah, we really need
the government, both sides of government to be committing to
putting money towards a response here. Um, we have a
state election coming up next year. Yeah. And so we

(24:23):
really want commitment from both levels of both sides of
government to be saying that they will be funding a
response in this space.

S1 (24:31):
Now, one of the examples that was given was a
sort of similar, uh, inquiry or similar commissioned by Victoria,
which was about ten years ago. So I'm sure things
would have changed. Is there kind of a template or
something that we can take from some of those recommendations
and some of those outcomes that maybe, you know, I
don't like to use the word shortcuts, but maybe that

(24:51):
we can, uh, maybe cut out a bit of extra
time to implement things here. Do you think?

S6 (24:56):
Yeah. Look. Absolutely. And we, um, in all the work
that we're ever doing, um, we're always looking to see
what other states, other countries, etc. have done so that,
you know, the things aren't needing to start from scratch
to be able to drive change. I know that the, um,
the final report did specifically mention some work in Victoria. Um,
so absolutely, we would be encouraging some of the early

(25:17):
pieces of work to be around, looking at what other
states have done, looking at what other countries have done,
and using that for the starting point. Like you said,
it's it might be ten years old, so it may
not still be as relevant, but it's so important to
to not start. We're not starting from scratch in this space.
We really need to build on what other people, what
other states have already been doing.

S1 (25:36):
I know in terms of the report and the recommendations.
They're quite new. What about from, you know, people that
you speak to, people that are JFA, purple orange have
contact with. Has there been much response? And is it
one of those things that it's going to take a
bit of time for people to kind of digest?

S6 (25:52):
Yeah, I think it will certainly take some time for
for people to digest. It is a really long report, um,
with additional, uh, documents attached to it. So I think
the report's about 600 pages long. And then there are
other reports attached. We haven't heard a lot of response
within the community at this point. Um, which is not
unusual when the government sort of, um, releases a really

(26:14):
long report from this. So I think that we'll expect
to hear more conversation coming out over the coming weeks.
And then also where we really expect to to see, um,
further conversation happening and real involvement from the community is
when we start to see the government responding to it,
because I guess that's really when when the rubber hits
the road and we start to see what the government's

(26:35):
actually willing to commit to, to to drive change.

S1 (26:37):
Because it's a bit of a glib throwaway line. But,
you know, people might be out there listening and think, oh,
you know, it doesn't really impact on me or hasn't
affected me. But I often say, you know, everyone is
but a heartbeat away from maybe, for example, being on
the NDIS. And similarly, anyone who's but a heartbeat away
from maybe being, um, you know, caught up in this
domestic violence is either as a perpetrator or indeed a victim.

(26:58):
I mean, you just don't know what what tomorrow brings.

S6 (27:01):
Yeah. That's right. And that's why, I guess, we talk
about the fact that we really need this to be
a whole of society. Well, it is a whole of
society issue. So we want the whole of the community
to be thinking about understanding what's been happening. Um, it
really brings it to the forefront for, um, the whole
community to start listening to it and thinking about how
everybody can be involved in, in the response and how

(27:22):
people can be involved in keeping others in our community safe.

S1 (27:25):
And this is done pretty quickly. I mean, sometimes these
royal commissions and then the reports etc. tend to drag on. Again,
credit to the team. They seem to have put it
together pretty well. And, and, and you sense that, you know,
a term often uses. Do you think they got it?
It seems like a lot of people that speak about
it sort of do seem to think that the commissioners
and the report kind of gets what this is about.

S6 (27:47):
Yeah, that is the sense that we had as well. Um,
and yes, it did it did turn around really quickly,
and we were happy to see the urgency put on
the fact that they were really wanting to hold the
Royal commission, um, consultations and then turn the report around quickly.
But I guess the other thing to note is that
this isn't new. So, I mean, it's sort of like
unfortunately for the disability community, they've been talking about this

(28:10):
for a really long time, and we've just had the
disability royal commission. That report came out, um, nearly two
years ago now. So this isn't necessarily new information coming out.
There was a lot of information already there to start from.
So yes, I agree it was really good that they
turned the report around really quickly. But also, I guess
that that is something that we were really expecting they

(28:32):
should be able to do and I'm happy to say
that they did it.

S1 (28:35):
A great point. Of course, we've also had the Royal
Commission into Aged Care, and I guess there'd be a
kind of some overlapping things as well. You know, in,
in both those two reports as well.

S6 (28:45):
Yes, absolutely.

S1 (28:46):
What about from JFA purple orange point of view now Tracy.
Does it kind of um, how does that kind of
impact upon you and perhaps what you do in the
next little while?

S6 (28:55):
Yeah. So I guess now really where our focus will
shift to in response to this will be trying to, um,
work with government on their response. So we'll be advocating
further on. Um, I guess the recommendations that we included
in the submission that we put in. So sort of
really trying to, um, meet with government, speak to government
about what they'll be including in their responses, making sure

(29:17):
that they're really taking the recommendations around co-design and really
centering the voices of people with disability in their response.
One of the things that we've long been advocating for
is funding for independent advocacy within South Australia for people
with disability. We're the only state that doesn't provide this funding. Um,
and we think that the report really highlights, um, the

(29:40):
need for these kinds of fundings, because I guess the
report really highlighted the complex system that people systems that
people are needing to navigate. And what happens when you
have a series of complex systems is that people really
fall through the gaps. And we see that more for
people with disability, because they're also navigating systems that are

(30:01):
inaccessible and really unsafe for them. So that's where independent
advocacy really plays a role in supporting people with disability
to navigate their systems and actually stay safe, because we
know that change is going to take a long time. Um,
so even though the government has committed to properly responding
by the end of the year, we know that any
reforms do take time. So in the meantime, we need

(30:21):
to be doing. The government needs to be doing what
they can to keep people safe. Um, and independent advocacy
is a really important plays an important role in that.
So we will continue our advocacy piece around that, really
sort of speaking with the government about that vital role
of the advocacy plays.

S1 (30:38):
It's been really good to talk to you. I'm sure
this won't be the last time we speak. Thanks for
spending some time with us. And we'll put details up
about JFA purple orange on our show notes. So if
people want to find out more, they can get in
touch via that particular means.

S6 (30:49):
Great. Thank you so much, Peter.

S1 (30:51):
That's Tracy Wallace, who's the strategy lead at JFA purple orange,
one of the most respected advocacy organizations here in South Australia,
on 1190 7 a.m. in Adelaide on VA radio, Digital
and through the TuneIn radio app. This is focalpoint. Thanks
for joining us today. It's always great catching up with
Doctor Anne Marie Withrow, who does some wonderful work in

(31:14):
the area of deaf blindness. And Marie, welcome back. Good
to have you with us again.

S7 (31:19):
Pleasure to be here. Pleasure to be here.

S1 (31:22):
Now you've got a conference coming up in November.

S8 (31:25):
Yes. Well, yes. So we still do. But it's exciting
because it's, uh.

S7 (31:34):
Cold filling in the gaps and joining the dots about
dual sensory impairment and deaf blindness. And it's different to
the usual sort of conference, because we used a survey
that we had done with 223 people about the kinds

(31:54):
of information and the kinds of things they wish they
knew about. And we used that to inform the content
rather than, you know, an ordinary conference where you have
a scientific committee and none of whom have, you know,
dual sensory impairment or deaf blindness. And you look at
abstracts that people have sent in and you decide, oh,

(32:17):
this one's really good. This one's interesting. The way we've
just done it this year is to say, okay, people
with deaf blindness, what do you think everybody needs to
talk about so that it's a real community led content.
So we have two days. We have a day of
presentation and a day of workshops. And it's at the

(32:41):
end of November 27th and 28th of November. And the
other thing that sets it apart from a lot of
other conferences is that it's got lived experience content all
the way through. So we're not just hearing from professionals
and practitioners and academics and researchers. We're hearing from people

(33:01):
and families, and we've tried to make the most of
the workshops, all have an introduction from a lived experience
person to, like, anchor the workshop and say, this is
why this is important and why we've got it there.
So it's going to be big and noisy and, and.

S1 (33:23):
And productive hopefully, and people get something from it. And Marie.
Was there a bit of, if you like, consensus about
what people wanted to either be discussed or wanted more
information about?

S7 (33:36):
There was sort of a lot of, um, a discussion
about how that's why it's called filling in the gaps.
A lot of discussion about the gaps, because one of
the things about this particular space, there's a lot of unknown, um,
you know, the data is terrible, for instance. So we've
got a data panel. The data is terrible because in

(33:57):
this country we don't have a tick box that says deaf,
blind or visually impaired people have to tick, you know,
blind or low vision and then go hearing a lot. And,
you know, that means that, you know, and not everybody's
going to do that. And not everybody knows that they
have a condition that is, you know, able to be

(34:20):
supported and helped. So, you know, a lot of the
largest number of People are the older age group and
a lot of them just go, oh, I can't see
too good and I don't hear too well, and it's
because I'm getting old. And so we don't have, you know,
we don't have the, the data. So that was one example.
So there were lots of gaps. And then the another example,

(34:43):
you know joining the dots is about okay collaborative kind
of solutions and what sort of things are happening. So
there's some research on social participation for instance, and how um,
other research uh, on um carers and how, how we
can support carers better with a, a model of um

(35:07):
as a more conscious sort of way of caring because, look,
you know, living with people who have dual sensory impairment
or deafblindness is hard work. So that's the thing that
we've been consciously community led by.

S1 (35:23):
And we talked about the research is that both local
as in Australian and international research?

S7 (35:29):
Yes, we have we have spent some of our very
limited funds on, um, getting Doctor Peter Simcock out from
the UK. He's the genius behind the credentialing, which is
like the courses that enable people who work with people

(35:50):
who are deaf or deaf, blind to be credentialed in
the United Kingdom. And so he's the genius behind that,
behind all that, um, the diploma course and the certificate
course and the degree course. And now he's added a
course in education of people with deaf blindness to that.

(36:12):
So he'll be talking to us about how he set
that up so that we can take some of that
away with us. And then we've also got Tara Brown
Ogilvie from the United States. Helen Keller National center. Wow.
And her area of expertise is, you know, better living
with sensory impairments. So she's part of the Confident Living

(36:35):
program that they run, and she's going to talk about that.
And then she's also going to do a few social
haptic communication. So a form of tactile messaging I guess
workshops on the workshop day.

S1 (36:50):
And Marie, the 27th and 28th of November. Is it
all in person or will there be a kind of
a hybrid approach to this?

S7 (36:58):
At the moment, on the we have on the first day,
you can attend online or in person. The majority of
the workshop material is obviously hands on. Yeah, like in person,
in person. But but we also have we have a
movie night and we have a Decline. Stand up comedian.

(37:24):
Rounding out the conference on second day. And this is
the big thing. This will draw people in. There will
be ice cream and they will.

S1 (37:33):
Where do I sign? That's fantastic. Is the deafblind comedian you,
Anne Marie.

S9 (37:43):
Is the deaf blind comedian. You know it's not young.

S7 (37:47):
No I'm not. No, no, not at all.

S8 (37:50):
I'm.

S7 (37:51):
I'm not funny. Like.

S1 (37:52):
No, no. Well, you're very talented. I thought that might
be another string to your bow.

S7 (37:57):
There aren't that many of them around, Peter. But we
we've we've got one. Uh, he pokes fun at a
few things. Um, and I think it's, um, you know,
one of the things it's important is humor.

S1 (38:11):
Yeah, absolutely.

S7 (38:13):
And one of the things that we, you know, that that, um,
people with low vision, people with, um, hearing loss of
whatever degree. People with the combination. I mean, things happen
to us that, you know, and some of them are
quite funny and some of them are not funny, but
it helps to see the, um, the the bright side.

S1 (38:35):
Yeah. And Marie, you talked about the some of the
workshops being introduced by people with lived experience. Has it
been difficult to get people with lived experience to get
involved with things like that?

S7 (38:49):
Yes and no. In that it's difficult because you can't
just say to people, oh yeah, come, you're talking at
10:00 on Friday. I'll see you there. You have to go. Okay.
What kind of helped you you need to access? What
kind of help do you need to actually get to

(39:11):
the venue? Do you need a support person? Do you
need an interpreter? So that it's a much more involved
process and everyone's very different. Some people say, yeah, no worries,
I'll see you there. And, um, they, you know, I'm
independent and other people will say, oh, well, I'll need
this particular type of interpreter and I'll need some help

(39:33):
with aeroplane and I'll need this. And we also got
a grant from the federal government that enables us to
give little mini subsidies for people who need to bring
a support person, because in the um, deafblind community, the
NDIS doesn't allow you to pay for travel and accommodation

(39:55):
of your support person. And so we asked for a
grant so that we would be able to give, you know,
a partial kind of subsidy, I guess, to make it
more equitable so that people could bring someone and, you know,
wasn't just all coming out of their pocket. And that's
the other reason it's a free conference, because.

S1 (40:18):
Fantastic.

S7 (40:19):
Yeah. So you know that that's really good that, you know,
it's more acceptable to everybody of course. But but, but
but it means that we have to work harder to
pay for the popcorn.

S1 (40:31):
And the ice cream and. Marie. Um, what about in
terms of where it's being held? We've said the dates
27th and 28th of November. What about the the venue?

S7 (40:42):
Oh, did I leave that out?

S1 (40:44):
I didn't ask you if that's my fault.

S7 (40:45):
People will be running around town looking for.

S1 (40:48):
Where's that conference?

S7 (40:50):
The University of Sydney.

S1 (40:52):
Okay.

S7 (40:52):
And, uh. And unfortunately, I blame I blame exams are
more accessible. Rooms will.

S1 (41:01):
Are.

S7 (41:02):
Only about two weeks ago by the exam committee because
they're allowed to do that. So it's unfortunately not brilliantly,
brilliantly accessible. Yeah. So it's been quite tricky finding Rooms
that A fit everybody and B meet all the accessibility parameters.
And I think if we'd had more money, we would

(41:24):
have gone to like a, you know, like a hotel
with a big ballroom that could fit everybody in on,
on tables. And we we don't have that set up.
But it's the first time we've done this, and we'd
like it to be a regular annual or biannual event.

(41:44):
And so we're just going the best way we can.
But I would say next time will be even better.

S1 (41:51):
Well, you've got some fantastic international speakers, you've got a comedian,
and I'm sure there's lots of other great reasons for
people to be attending. Now we'll put details up with
our show notes, but is there a kind of a
a starting point as to where people can find out
some more information?

S7 (42:08):
They the, um, an email address, uh, conference 2025 Five
at d f project board.

S1 (42:20):
Terrific. And, Marie, I think we're going to speak to
you again at the end of September or certainly in September.
And I think Moira is doing some interesting work overseas
that we might have a chat to her about in
the future as well. But thank you so much for
speaking to us. It's always really good to get a
good perspective from someone with lived experience, and also the

(42:40):
wonderful work that you've done to kind of share that
with us. So we wish you well, and it'll certainly
be good to catch up afterwards to find out how
it all goes.

S7 (42:49):
Yeah, fantastic. Thank you very much.

S1 (42:52):
That's Doctor Anne Marie Withrow there, a tremendous advocate. And
that conference coming up in November, um, we'll put those
details up at our show notes. And I always say
if you have difficulty accessing them, ring us here at
the radio station and we'll put you in touch with
the organizers.

S10 (43:07):
This is an opportunity where people can actually see what
people with disabilities can do. Seems only yesterday we were
celebrating Easter. So we took the show to the show,
so to speak. And unfortunately, I didn't get to go.
B normally we have to look at things differently. It's
an interesting one.

S1 (43:26):
Well, that familiar voice is that of Phil, co-founder and
co-presenter of Focal Point. And Phil's on the line. Phil,
how are you?

S11 (43:34):
I'm not too bad. Thank you Peter. And considering it's
now the eighth month.

S1 (43:37):
Yes. Well, we're getting close to Showtime, of course, which
is going to be pretty exciting for those that like
that sort of thing.

S11 (43:43):
It certainly is. It's building up to be a big one,
I believe.

S1 (43:46):
Yeah. A lot of rain forecast between now and then,
so we'll see where that turns out. I feel, um,
a bit of discussion or an announcement last week by
Mark Butler, the Minister for uh, Health and Disability in
the NDIS, etc., regarding thriving kids. So what do you
make of it?

S11 (44:03):
Uh, it's an interesting situation, and I, I had a
feeling that, um, when the, um, the idea of the
NDIS Nice coming into being that, uh, this might open
the door for perhaps disabilities or, uh, other, um, problems,
children or problem adults or adults with perhaps some form

(44:25):
of disability that doesn't fit into the major or mainstream
disabilities stream would come on board. And I think that
basically that's what's happened. People all of a sudden have
come out of the woodwork and said, oh, I have
a disability. And uh, it's, uh, this, this and that.
And uh, they've applied for the NDIS. And of course, um,

(44:45):
it's blown the budget.

S1 (44:47):
Blind the budget right out. And, you know, the number
of kids in particular with, uh, the autism diagnosis that
seem to be on it does seem to be a
bit of a worry. Both, I guess, for the government
and also for the kids that, uh, what might happen
if and when they come off it.

S11 (45:03):
Yeah. Look, I don't know much about autism and just
how it works, but I can understand, uh, From what
I hear, that there's going to be some criticism by
parents and caregivers about the funding for that, because it's
probably not much being looked at in that particular area

(45:25):
as far as how it should be funded. But I
guess now the NDIS budget's got to be reined in,
and I think that was the first target.

S1 (45:33):
And it looks like there's a bit of a tussle,
if you like a bit of handball, if you like,
with the footy finals on the way between the states
and the federal government as to who's going to pay
for what.

S11 (45:43):
Well, that's that's it. And I think one of the
problems was that as soon as the NDIS was going
to come in, I think the, um, the States, uh,
more or less raised their hand and said, oh, beauty,
now we can hand all this to the federal government,
which probably would have saved them money. But it turns
out now that, uh, perhaps that wasn't such a good

(46:05):
idea after all. And there may be other services that
can provide people with autism or autistic children with perhaps
better services.

S1 (46:17):
We spoke about this before when the state governments plural
kind of washed their hands of the whole thing. There
were a lot of people who were getting services from
different organizations. Left a little bit high and dry. And
of course, a lot of those organizations were left high
and dry as well because funding dried up. The the
block funding that they used to get dried up.

S11 (46:37):
Yeah. And that was that was a bit of a problem.
And I sort of thought that this would cause a
few problems because it meant that organizations who got over
a hundred odd years and, and of course, we know
about places like the Royal Society for the blind, who
for over a hundred years have provided services for people
who are blind and vision impaired, now have to, um,

(47:00):
to look at how they get funding. Uh, because that
block funding is not there.

S1 (47:06):
It's going to be very interesting. And I also the
other thing that was kind of interesting from this is
that it was announced that a national press club, and
it looked like some of the premiers in particular, were
taken a bit by surprise by it's almost like they
were very guarded in how they responded without saying, well,
that's the first we've heard of it, but they almost said,
that's the first I've heard of it.

S11 (47:26):
Yeah. And I bet you the government sort of said, oh, well,
we knew this was coming, but I think you're right.
I think they were surprised. And I think that that was, uh,
that's something now that the state governments are just going
to have to look at and see how they, they
go about funding some of these shortfalls.

S1 (47:42):
That federal support that was supposed to come in, uh,
you know, I think it's been delayed a little bit,
but we'll see where where that goes. What about, uh,
I don't didn't get much coverage as far as disability. Uh,
went last uh, last week Phil. But the, uh, the
round table on economic reform or productivity or whatever title
people want to give. It didn't seem to be much

(48:03):
about disability that I found.

S11 (48:06):
I didn't think there was much out of it at all.
As a matter of fact, I didn't hear much out
of it other than the fact that they were discussing
things and that was about it. There was nothing that
I could hear personally. I mean, there may be others
that know something, but I didn't hear anything that, uh,
that was exciting, that would, um, would excite me and

(48:26):
excite other people about how things were going to be funded,
what was going to be done, and how things were
going to be done. As far as the, um, the
state budget and the state matters are concerned. So it
would be interesting to see what does come out of it.

S1 (48:42):
Also, speaking of interesting, it's interesting the leak that came
from the ABC regarding some of the papers that Treasury
had prepared in response to what was going to be
discussed before it was discussed.

S11 (48:54):
Yeah. That's interesting. Now somebody sort of like, let that
go and listened intently to to see what was happening
with that. But, uh, I didn't take a lot of
notice of that, because the fact that it was leaked information,
I would have liked to have waited to see if
somebody was going to come out and actually make a

(49:14):
statement on some of those things that were mentioned.

S1 (49:18):
All right. Well, we'll wait to see more about that because, um,
I guess, you know, they've had the three days. I
think there's been a couple of, uh, things that have
happened since in terms of, uh, the housing area, which
is very, very important. But we'll, I guess we'll wait
to see if there's anything more. I feel we're turning
to the state political, uh, situation. Frank Pangallo a person
who many of our listeners would know very well through his, uh,

(49:40):
time in the media. Was it tonight or today? Tonight?

S11 (49:43):
Yeah. He was in that he played a a fairly
big part in, um, in that he I think he was, uh, once, uh,
news editor or news director at, uh, one of the
TV stations even before then. But yeah, he was, he was,
he was part of the the Today Tonight crew and, uh,
he was, uh, very much chasing after politicians to get answers.

(50:04):
Now the boot on the other foot, so to speak.
He's getting chased by media. So now he knows what
it's like to be chased.

S1 (50:12):
Now, I think what happened was that when, um, Nick
Xenophon left, federal politics is going to run for state politics.
And a few people were saying he was the alternate premier.
That's how much his chances were given. I think Frank
was going to be his media adviser. And then all
of a sudden, Frank also ran for the upper house
and lo and behold, he actually got elected. Well, this

(50:34):
is now over seven years ago.

S11 (50:36):
Yeah. Now he's turned into, um, to be, um, a liberals. Uh,
my only question with that is for how long? Uh,
because we know what sort of party the Liberal Party
is these days. And that's another interesting situation, because I
was listening, half listening to, uh, a conversation with, um, uh,

(50:57):
some people on the ABC this morning because I was
doing other things, and I a cool part of the
thing was saying that the Liberal Party is no longer
the Liberal Party that used to be with people like, um,
the previous leaders before they, um, they had, I mean, like, uh,
Thomas Playford, uh, Steele Hall, David Tonkin and a few, um,

(51:19):
leaders after that. Uh, it's a different party now, and
that's what I think. Uh, the premier was alluding to
that the Liberal Party is no longer the Liberal Party
we once knew, and I think he was sort of
thinking he's not sure as to where it's going. I
think a lot of people think the same thing now.

S1 (51:38):
And of course, with someone like Frank who's very, um,
you know, got an opinion, which is fair enough, probably
that's better suited to being an independent rather than being
a member of a party.

S11 (51:47):
Yeah, I think that you're right there. You know, I
think that's that's the biggest problem because he's going to
find himself, I think, in a spot of bother. Um,
during his time with the Liberal Party, although we don't
know the way the Liberal Party is going is probably
they'll probably take him on.

S1 (52:03):
Well, I think it's all kind of signs that at
least until the election, of course, you know, there was
talk that he might find it difficult to get re-elected
in the upper house because you need that quota to
get elected and maybe running for a single seat, uh,
perhaps against 2 or 3 other candidates might give him
a better chance. I'll tell you what's kind of interesting
about that as well is, um, he's running for the

(52:24):
seat of Waite, which is a metropolitan area of Adelaide,
or just out of the metropolitan area. And the, um,
the headquarters of Bedfords is in that seat. So, um, yeah,
that could make for some interesting, uh, politicking as to
the future of Bedford in a seat like that as
we lead up to the election as well?

S11 (52:41):
Yes, that could be an interesting one to go for,
but I think I can think I can safely say,
I think that Peter Malinauskas is going home when he
puts his, um, head on the pillow at night, he's
reassured that he can wake up still being premier and
will probably wake up after the election and still be premier.

S1 (53:02):
I think that's probably right at this stage. I feel
as we speak, people listening on a Wednesday night, the
Midwinter's ball is on at Parliament House in Canberra, normally
held in June and July. But of the colder months.
But of course with the election, things were pushed back
a bit where politicians and the media and everyone gets together.
That's a jolly good time and raises some funds for

(53:24):
charities and what politicians do, particularly the the big boys
and girls, tend to put up prizes to, uh, people
to bid for as an auction. Anthony Albanese is offering to, uh,
have a match of tennis at, uh, at his place.
And Susan Lee is offering to fly two people in
a Cessna aircraft to a country town and have pub

(53:47):
lunch with us. So, um, I would you bid for
any of them? And what sort of money do you
reckon you might bid to have? Either or both of those?

S11 (53:56):
I don't know. It depends on how much money I've
got left in the bank and whether they're right, whether
the bids are going to be higher or lower. Um,
I think the, um, flying in a Cessna to a
country town might be an interesting one. I sort of
go for that one. And another one. I play tennis at, uh,
Albanese Flakes. That could be an interesting one. That one.

S1 (54:19):
Well, I agree with you. That's my first reaction was
I probably would go for the, uh, pub meal in
the country town and get certainly the flight. And, I mean,
you'd think you'd be you'd be safe in the plane,
because if she's in the plane as well, she's got
to land it, right? Otherwise, we're all in trouble.

S11 (54:33):
Well, yeah. That's right. She's not only got her, um, electoral, uh,
thing she's got up in the balance. So, you know,
she's got to be extra, extra careful.

S1 (54:43):
Well, I don't know, I think. Well, I don't know
if it actually is, um, made public as to how
much money is bid for those, but there might be
a little bit of a competition between the two as
to which one of them could raise the most amount
of money. It does go to a really good cause
for charity. So it's a nice idea, but I thought
they were both a little bit different. I think Jim
Chalmers offered dinner to talk with his, um, sort of

(55:06):
finance minister, etcetera, which is a bit kind of dull
and boring, but the, the tennis or the the flight
to a country pub sounds a bit more exciting.

S11 (55:13):
Yeah. Well, perhaps, um, the, uh, the Jim Chalmers should
perhaps invite, uh, people to visit a bank from a
different perspective.

S1 (55:24):
All right. I feel good to catch up. We'll speak
again next month.

S11 (55:27):
Certainly. Well, look forward to it.

S1 (55:29):
That's through. Their co-founder, a co-presenter for Focal Point, talks
about lots of different topics. And if there's something you'd
like to get his teeth into, get in touch and
we'll put you to work. Just recapping on that email
address for the conference coming up in November for people
who are deaf blind, the email address is conference 2025.

(55:54):
Conference 2025. At DSI Project.org. Dual sensory loss impairment DSI.
So conference 2025 at DSI project. And as always, if
you need any details that you can't catch either via
the radio or show notes. One 308 4746 give us

(56:17):
a call one 308 4746. We've got this thing that's
even better than I called high human intelligence. And the
message will certainly find us. Our audio describe show of
the week. It's coming up Monday afternoon, evening, around about 540.
Maybe dinner time, maybe early dinner. It is called Finding You.

(56:39):
It's on the SBS main movie channel, and this tracks
a talented violinist whose life is upended when she meets
a charming film star at a coastal Irish village. They
set out on a journey of self-discovery and love. Sounds fantastic.

(56:59):
Finding you is the name of the movie something we
all might like to do. Find you. It is coming
up this Monday afternoon evening. 540 SBS Movie Channel rated PG,
rated PG. It must be pretty good. And of course,
as I always say, supplemented and complemented with audio description.

(57:22):
A couple of birthdays before we go. Angela is having
a birthday. Wonderful. Angela down there in the area of
Victor Harbor serving on the council. Wonderful advocate Angela. A
very big happy birthday to you. Hope you're having a
great day. And Ruben Fairbank, the man with the best
name in blind cricket. The name was one of the
great names of any sport. Sounds like it could have

(57:43):
been a West Indian fast bowler coming out of the 80s,
terrorising the Australian batsmen. Ruben Fairbank also having a birthday.
Great cricketer, fabulous tennis player too, and doing some great
work in the area of leadership and advocacy. Happy birthday,
Reuben Fairbank. Thank you, Sam Rickard for your help. Thank you,
Pam Greene for yours. Huge thanks to the team for

(58:03):
helping us put the program together. Reminding you that Focal
Point is available on your favorite podcast platform. On behalf
of Philip Napier, this is Peter Greco saying be kind
to yourselves, be thoughtful and look out for others. All
being well. Focal point back at the same time next
week on Vision Australia Radio and the Reading Radio Network.

(58:27):
This is focal point.