Code-switching – Why some employees feel the need to “play a role” at work

We all have different ways of presenting ourselves in different situations. We might talk or act differently at work than we do around family and friends. It’s called code-switching.  

But for people of diverse backgrounds, constantly changing who you are to fit in with a certain work culture takes an exhausting toll.  

Dwayne Good is the founder of Aboriginal-owned travel company, InTravel Group. He’ll explain why the subtle codes we sometimes have to live by at work are out-dated. And how to create a workplace where employees don’t need to switch.  

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Getting It Right is a Jobsbank podcast. It was produced by Deadset Studios and hosted by Rae Johnston.  

Find your downloadable Getting It Right Guide here; plus plenty more handy resources to help you with inclusive hiring at the Jobsbank Resource Centre. 

CREDITS

Host: Rae Johnston 

Deadset Studios executive producers: Kellie Riordan, Ann Chesterman, Rachel Fountain 

Deadset Studios producer: Luci McAfee 

Sound Design: Scott Stronach 

We acknowledge Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Australians and Traditional Custodians of the land on which this show was made. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Rae Johnston (00:05):
Yeah, mum. No, she didn't tell me about that. Eh?
So you're gonna be alright to get there? Ok. So
I can grab Uncle Jimmy on the way home and
give Aunty Beryl the money then. Yeah. Alright. Is everything gonna
be alright though?

Rae's colleague (00:21):
Oh hi Ray look I just wanted to touch base
ahead of the top brass from HQ popping in this arvo.
Are you the head of the curve on that systematic
cadence piece?

Rae Johnston (00:29):
Firmly on my radar. I'm just finalizing the ballpark figures now.

Rae's colleague (00:34):
Mhm. Because in an ideal world going forward, I'd really
love to drill down and get quite granular, you know,

Rae Johnston (00:40):
mm 100%. So if they throw us a curveball, we
can decomplexify.

Rae's colleague (00:47):
ecause they'll be playing hard ball on that bottom line.

Rae Johnston (00:50):
Well, if they ask us to take a deep dive
or shift the goal posts for some blue sky projections,
we'll be able to level the playing field and give
them the 411 on our velocity. We're on the same
page babe.

Rae's colleague (01:03):
Absolute game changer. I'll circle back later. Bye!

Rae Johnston (01:06):
Bye.
Sorry about that mum.
It may seem as simple as dropping a few buzzwords.
In a meeting, throwing finger guns around with your colleagues
or dressing a certain way. But for some people, it

(01:27):
means changing or hiding a part of themselves to fit
into a mainly anglo corporate world. It's called code switching.
And it can be exhausting. If we want to bring
more diverse people into the workplace, they need to be
able to bring their whole self genuinely.

(01:53):
I'm Rae Johnston and this is Getting It Right. A
podcast from Jobsbank that helps you the employer tap into
the labour market by designing a more inclusive hiring process.
It's about casting the net wider so you can unearth
the job seekers you need to further your business needs.
We're going to unpack the concept of code switching and

(02:17):
how to make sure your employees don't feel like they
need to be a different person at work.
Dwayne Good is the founder of 100% Aboriginal owned and
operated corporate travel group In Travel. Dwayne, when we talk code switching.
What does that mean?

Dwayne Good (02:36):
I guess it's playing in different worlds, being from a
a diverse cultural background, but also choosing to work in
a big scary corporate world having done so for the
last sort of 15 years and being an Aboriginal man, I, yeah,
I definitely need to be conscious of where I'm working.

Rae Johnston (02:53):
So when we're code switching, what are we changing about ourselves?

Dwayne Good (02:57):
Me as an Aboriginal person working in these big places,
I had to essentially code switch and conform into their
sort of way of doing things and, and speaking how
they do and behaving how they do and conforming to their,
their way of life.

Rae Johnston (03:14):
So, before you worked in Indigenous-run travel, which must feel
like a totally different world, you worked with, as you said,
a few of these big larger corporations. But how did
you perform to get along? You did mention that you changed,
you know, the way that you talked. What else did
you do?

Dwayne Good (03:35):
Yeah, you definitely learn. And we're talking maybe when things
weren't as diverse and inclusive than they are now, you
would just keep your head down and try and stay
out of trouble and try and limit conflict in the workplace.
Back in the day, uh there would always be, you know,
there might be someone with a negative attitude towards Aboriginal

(03:57):
people and they might say something racist. It might be
a joke sitting at the, you know, the lunch table
or something like that. And I wasn't very good at
biting my tongue and, and just letting it slide, I would,
I would always say something. And so, so, yeah, that's
not cool and, and make my opinions known and let
that person know where I'm from. However, I did need
to be incredibly professional about that and I had to

(04:20):
act in a manner that wouldn't get me in any trouble.

Rae Johnston (04:23):
Did you feel like you had somewhere to go? Or
someone to talk to about that when it happened?

Dwayne Good (04:28):
Definitely not. Yeah, definitely not back in that period for sure.
And it was very isolating and it became an awkward
situation again from that, you know, that comment onwards and
it was up to me to stay out of trouble
and toe the line and just pretend it didn't happen.

Rae Johnston (04:45):
So when companies are saying things like we want you
to bring your whole self to work, you know, we've
all heard that in those big corporate environments. Does that
work in practicality,

Dwayne Good (04:57):
Your whole self, but just anything that's different to mainstream
society leave that at home.

Rae Johnston (05:02):
Your whole self except the bits we don't really want
to know about.

Dwayne Good (05:06):
Yeah, the stuff that we're not really into and scares us. Yeah,
we're sort of not comfortable with that. So we don't
want to talk about anything uncomfortable. Let's just let's keep
it tidy Dwayne. So there were some situations where I
didn't know of any Indigenous people in the company. And
so you really are on your own. And so you
really are obliged to conform and for personalities like me that's,

(05:32):
that was challenging

Rae Johnston (05:33):
Or if you are the only one and that's made
obvious to a bunch of people and they find out,
you become Aboriginal Google for the whole company on any
kind of Indigenous issues. Right.

Dwayne Good (05:46):
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Rae Johnston (05:49):
For some of us, you know, code switching happens because
of our indigeneity or you know, for others, it's because
of our gender, like women that work in male dominated
mining sites, for instance, or it could be about sexuality.
You know, there's some people in more traditional work environments
that are still made to feel like they have to

(06:11):
hide the fact that they are gay. So what's your
advice as an employer on how other companies can make
sure that staff don't have to adapt to fit in.

Dwayne Good (06:23):
When I think of a feeling when I felt uncomfortable
back in the day, I felt like there was no procedures,
no process, no policy, no culture values that supported a
diverse person or someone from a different, different walk of life.
And so now companies, if they want to get that
right now, they're certainly talking about it. It is about

(06:46):
actually doing it. And so actually having a diverse workforce,
actually having people from different backgrounds, walking around and you know,
being visible. My fundamental belief is it has to actually
start from the top. So top down approach from the
board level, if you're serious about diversity, how is that
flowing through genuinely? It should, then the diversity and inclusion,

(07:11):
actual processes and hiring decisions will start to trickle down.
Then people like myself or other backgrounds will walk in
and go. Oh, this is great. I feel, I feel
like I belong.

Rae Johnston (07:23):
Yeah, you feel more comfortable, you feel like it is
a place that's set up for you to come into

Dwayne Good (07:29):
To a degree, it takes away the awkwardness of it. It's
just business as usual. We, you know, we don't have
to talk about it. It's just it, we live and
breathe it.

Rae Johnston (07:38):
We don't have to try too hard. There doesn't have
to be a checklist on the wall, we just are , you know?
So how have you set up that environment at, In Travel?

Dwayne Good (07:48):
So, at the heartbeat as a small business, which we were,
when we opened, we're almost nine years old now getting
to become a bigger business. So better resources now. But
back in the day because I'm a blackfella , I
our purpose was to hire other blackfellas . So that
was our DNA, our foundation, that is our value system.
So we would never, you know, we would, we would

(08:10):
never say no to anyone from any particular background because
how hypocritical would that be? So that is our DNA
and we do have people from diverse backgrounds that work
in our business. We've got a long way to go.
We wanna keep growing and we wanna open up our
business for anyone from any background to come and work
for us. That is just who we are. I don't

(08:30):
need to write a policy about it because it's just,
it's just how it is.

Rae Johnston (08:34):
So when you're creating policies and procedures around code switching,
what should you be mindful of? I

Dwayne Good (08:41):
I think one of the fundamentals and I know this from
my First Nations lens is that if whitefellas don't know
what's going on in Blackfellas' world, how can they help?
And so it's about that understanding and if you're a HR
manager and you're writing policies and procedures about making sure
the workplace is, is right for everyone, then you need

(09:01):
to go and understand and immerse yourself in these diverse
and inclusive backgrounds to really understand what they're going through.
So if you don't know about any of that, then
go and find out, go and talk to these communities.

Rae Johnston (09:15):
It's all about communication too, isn't it? You know, talk
to the people who you're wanting to bring into the
organization and ask them what their needs are, make them
feel comfortable talking to you about it.

Dwayne Good (09:24):
Absolutely. And just asking the question. I think like the
fundamental value is around respect. If your business is missing
that fundamental value or principle, then you're never gonna get
any of this done. If you don't respect people from all walks
of life, then how can you make the environment look
really nice or feel good for a black fella to

(09:46):
walk into? So, yeah, if you respect, it could be
a culture that's written on a wall, or a statement
that's written on a wall. But if you don't actually
do that on the ground level, if your people, your executives,
then you, you really, you're not gonna get there.

Rae Johnston (10:01):
I'm noticing a lot of things that workplaces are doing
to make the physical space more welcoming and comfortable for
people from diverse backgrounds. You know, even things as simple
as having, you know, a gender neutral bathroom or making
sure it's accessible to people with disabilities. But what can
workplaces do from a First Nations perspective?

Dwayne Good (10:23):
It's really comforting seeing that maybe one of their boardrooms
is named after an important place that's a really important
place for First Nations people. You know, that's one great
example or acknowledgements on, you know, remote calls, etcetera. You know,
if HR again is trying to look to redesign environments, maybe
like I said before going out and talking to diverse

(10:43):
backgrounds and, and learning what, what, what's important to them
or what would make them feel more comfortable in the workplace.

Rae Johnston (10:49):
And invest in some local art, find out who your
local artists are and show the stories of that place
in your building of the country that you're sitting on
every day.
Dwayne Good, the founder of In Travel Group. Don't forget there's
more resources to help you with inclusive hiring and procurement

(11:10):
on the Jobs Bank resource centre at jobsbank.org.au . There's
plenty of practical tips there, whether you're a government department,
a multinational corporation, a small business or a not for profit.
For more episodes that help you with hiring, follow Getting

(11:31):
It Right in the podcast app of your choice. Getting
It Right is a podcast from Jobs Bank and is
produced by Deadset Studios and I'm Rae Johnston. This episode
was recorded on the unceded lands of the sovereign Gadigal and
Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin nation. It's been produced and
edited on the lands of the Turrbal and Jagera people. And

(11:53):
we wish to pay our deepest respects to their elders
past and present. And we ask that you too acknowledge
the Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander lands that you're listening from.