July 19, 2023 • 11 mins
The pandemic brought working from home to the forefront but there’s more to a “flexible workplace” than just the address.
Jobsbank CEO Karina Davis packages up the tools you need to create an inclusive space where diversity can flourish.
Find out how to open up shift rostering, build transparent operational plans, and implement innovative trials. These small changes just might transform your workplace.
+++
Getting It Right is podcast by Jobsbank. It was produced by Deadset Studios and hosted by Rae Johnston.
Click here to find your downloadable episode guide.
For more information, resources and handy tools on inclusive hiring and procurement visit Resources | Jobsbank
CREDITS
Host: Rae Johnston
Deadset Studios executive producers: Kellie Riordan, Ann Chesterman, Rachel Fountain
Deadset Studios producer: Luci McAfee
Sound Design: Scott Stronach
We acknowledge Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the First Australians and Traditional Custodians of the land on which this show was made.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Employer (00:04):
Dear diverse employees. It has come to our attention that
the initiatives we're putting in place to support. You are
underappreciated and underutilized. We have given you incredible perks like
Denim Mondays, a ping pong table work from home Tuesdays
(00:24):
and a lightly subsidized first beverage at the local pub
on Friday afternoons.
We pride ourselves on being a family. Clearly, this is
a great space for diverse people to work because you
are here and we would love for you to join
us with your very own executive office on the top level.
(00:46):
The one where the bathroom has three play toilet paper
city views and your very own air conditioning remote, but
we can't force you to have ambition.
Not a single one of you attended our diversity morning
tea on Tuesday. The Monte Carlos sat untouched while the
(01:06):
chi tea lattes formed that skin on top, rendering them undrinkable.
We ask you, is it so hard to walk up
13 flights of stairs to accelerate one's career? What will
it take for us to see people of all backgrounds,
cultures and abilities here? Working side by side with us
in corporate heaven.
(01:29):
People like you tell us we are all ears sincerely,
people and culture PS. There is a photo opportunity tomorrow
at the Mixed Bag Inclusion Initiative. It will feature on
the front cover of the annual report. So it'd be
really great to see some of you care enough to attend.
Rae Johnston (01:58):
Imagine if your people and culture department treated you like that.
Although sadly, there do seem to be instances where even
well intentioned hints at flexibility and diversity in the workplace
are framed as special treats rather than the norm.
I'm Rae Johnston and welcome to Getting it right. This
(02:18):
is a podcast from Jobs Bank that helps you hire
a more dynamic, flexible, diverse workforce and how to design
your workplace to keep those hires.
So what does flexibility in the workplace really mean? And
how can you achieve it in your organization?
Dr Karina Davis (02:38):
One of the most important things in the shift of
flexibility is trust. We have to move towards at an
organizational level, a trust in employees.
Rae Johnston (02:47):
This is Karina Davis, she's the CEO of Jobsbank ,
a not for profit that works with businesses to increase
employer inclusivity and therefore fill workforce gaps.
Dr Karina Davis (02:59):
So from my perspective, we can make it really complex
or we can make it relatively simple. There's a list
of all these things that make it really hard at
its most simple. I think flexibility in the workplace is
about meeting the individual and it's a about understanding what
the individual has to offer. It's about the skills and
capabilities that they bring and it's about their life, reality.
(03:23):
And so it's putting those things together to say, ok,
we want this person at our workplace, they bring skill
and capability for us. And so how do we meet
them and come together so that they can live their
best life and they can work and flourish for the
organization and for the employer,
Rae Johnston (03:41):
it wasn't really until the pandemic that working from home
became something that was normal for a lot of different
people in different roles to do. But when we think
about workplace flexibility is it only about the choice in
where you can work from?
Dr Karina Davis (03:57):
No, absolutely not. I've come into the role of CEO
of Jobs Bank from education and I spent a long
time in education. When we think about how flexibility can
work for people and how it can bring people more
successfully and efficiently into the workplace, then we can have
a look at other places like education about how do
(04:18):
they make students flourish in their learning environment. Because at work,
we want people to be efficient and effective and to flourish. Actually,
Rae Johnston (04:27):
you're the CEO of Jobs Bank, how do you create
a flexible workplace?
Dr Karina Davis (04:32):
We have a small team and I have to acknowledge
it's a small team with people with complex lives and
we adjust and adapt to those complex lives in all
sorts of ways. For one of our staff members has
complex carer needs. What we do is we figure out
what are the days where it's possible to come into
the office and what are the days where it isn't?
But then there's a
(04:53):
sorts of other things that need to be adjusted for.
How do we have transparent operational plans and transparency here
across the team about all the things we're working on.
What that does though is means that we've also adjusted
for other people. We have men at Jobs Bank who
want to take on more substantial caring roles of their children.
And that's made those conversations possible
(05:13):
and all of that flexibility when we meet the individual
and meet and understand what they want for themselves. But
we also want to capitalize on their skills and capabilities
means that we just run around each other. And it
doesn't be so difficult actually.
Rae Johnston (05:27):
How important is it to have flexibility, role modeled in
the leadership team of an organization?
Dr Karina Davis (05:36):
I think that there's two kind of approaches to flexibility,
there's a management approach and that's kind of like all
of the realities of making it work. And then there's
absolutely a leadership approach to that. We have to have
the attitude and the mindsets for flexibility. It has to
be modeled. We have to call things in, not just
call things out, we can call out behaviors that mean
(05:57):
it's really difficult for people to come in and work.
But we also need to celebrate and highlight the times
when it does work. One of the most important things
in the shift of flexibility is trust. We have to
move towards at an organizational level, a trust in employees.
I think that before COVID, everyone had to be in,
we had to see the work, we had to see
people doing the work at their desks.
(06:18):
There was a whole lot of rigidity and direction that
was perceived as being needed in the workplace. And that
to me has a lot to do with trust. And
my experience of putting trust in people is that that
trust is so so rewarded by multiples because people will
go over and above what they need to do for
their job because they know that they're trusted to do
(06:39):
that as a leader of an organization, it's really important
for me to constantly reflect on
before I make a judgment or make a call on
what's possible for an organization to manage is really questioning
what I don't know and what I can't see about
people's lives.
Rae Johnston (06:59):
Some HR teams have a huge number of employees, you know,
these complex payroll systems, all these different rostered hours. How
can the needs of individuals to shift their hours of
work around? How does that work in practice in circumstances
like this?
Dr Karina Davis (07:20):
I think that's interesting. I've come from an organization where
there's hundreds of teachers and there are some constraints to flexibility.
Of course, there are nine o'clock starts in a school
you need the teachers in front of the kids. Unless
we're in COVID lockdown, you still need the teachers in
front of the kids online. We've got nurses and hospitals
(07:40):
to run, we've got factory lines to keep going. We've
got bus drivers that we need to run buses and
trains and trams on time. So there is absolutely some constraints.
Rae Johnston (07:49):
Ok. What about outside of white collar industries and offices?
How can employers be more flexible if the workplace is
a hospital or a construction site or a factory where
the structure is a bit more rigid like with shift rostering?
Dr Karina Davis (08:05):
I was just reading a article this morning that talked
about how do we provide the shift rotering process? How
do we give that back to people? And so if
we were more transparent about those shifts and rosters, would
people step in to being able to opt into the
shifts that they can work? And can we trust that
(08:26):
that means that the business needs would be met? That's
a really interesting experience. So this article that I was
reading this morning, which was about what happened if instead
of seeing one person is doing the roster, we opened
the roster up. We had job share. Job share wasn't
set days necessarily what happens if you had someone coming
in for a morning and not an afternoon, there are
(08:46):
all of those sorts of things that can work and
people are out there making it work. It's just that
we have to be open and trusting that we can
open little bits do innovative trials here and there and
see how that happens.
Rae Johnston (08:59):
Karina. What's an example of an organization that's really nailed
having a flexible space
Dr Karina Davis (09:07):
in terms of the flexible and inclusive workspaces. I just
want to call out social enterprises, social enterprises are regularly
core to their business models. Working is to create open employer,
employee relationships that welcome those who have struggled to get
into the workforce back into the workforce and make that work.
(09:29):
In the case of some disability services, they're looking at
what are the actual tasks needed in this moment? And
can we break the sub parts of tasks up and
give some subparts to someone who's got those skills and
another piece of sub tasks to somebody else who's got
those skills and you're not doubling a workforce, you're just
splitting the work differently.
(09:50):
We've got social enterprises who are working with youth and
really looking at youth disengagement as an issue. And how
do you create an inclusive environment so that youth want
to step into work and provide the supports about the
struggles to start to work? What language do you use
at work if it's not been modeled at home, how
do you understand that you need to show up at
nine and leave at five? And what's the value of that?
(10:13):
So really active support of youth in that space, giving
them the opportunity to try lots of different aspects of
jobs so they can land what their passion and commitment
is in terms of a career forging for themselves. There's
all sorts of social enterprise organizations who are doing that
work and corporate organizations, larger organizations have got a lot
(10:35):
to learn from there. And our challenge for innovation is
how do we scale that up? How do we learn
and make that work in a bigger picture?
That's Dr Karina Davis, the CEO of Jobs Bank on
creating an inclusively flexible workspace. And there are plenty more
(10:56):
practical tips at Jobsbank 's resource center. You can find
it at Jobs Bank dot org dot A U,
Rae Johnston (11:04):
I'm Rae Johnston getting it right is a podcast from
Jobs Bank and it's produced by Dead Set Studios. You
can follow the podcast in the podcast app of your choice.
That way you never miss an episode.
This episode was recorded on the unceded lands of the sovereign Darug, Gandangara and Wiradjuri peoples and the Wiradjuri
and Woiwurrung peoples of the Kulin Nation. It was produced and edited
(11:29):
on the lands of the Turrbal and Yuggera people. We wish
to pay our deepest respects to their Elders past and present.
And we ask that you too acknowledge the Aboriginal or
Torres Strait Islander lands on which you're listening from.
Dear diverse employees. It has come to our attention that
the initiatives we're putting in place to support. You are
underappreciated and underutilized. We have given you incredible perks like
Denim Mondays, a ping pong table work from home Tuesdays
(00:24):
and a lightly subsidized first beverage at the local pub
on Friday afternoons.
We pride ourselves on being a family. Clearly, this is
a great space for diverse people to work because you
are here and we would love for you to join
us with your very own executive office on the top level.
(00:46):
The one where the bathroom has three play toilet paper
city views and your very own air conditioning remote, but
we can't force you to have ambition.
Not a single one of you attended our diversity morning
tea on Tuesday. The Monte Carlos sat untouched while the
(01:06):
chi tea lattes formed that skin on top, rendering them undrinkable.
We ask you, is it so hard to walk up
13 flights of stairs to accelerate one's career? What will
it take for us to see people of all backgrounds,
cultures and abilities here? Working side by side with us
in corporate heaven.
(01:29):
People like you tell us we are all ears sincerely,
people and culture PS. There is a photo opportunity tomorrow
at the Mixed Bag Inclusion Initiative. It will feature on
the front cover of the annual report. So it'd be
really great to see some of you care enough to attend.
Rae Johnston (01:58):
Imagine if your people and culture department treated you like that.
Although sadly, there do seem to be instances where even
well intentioned hints at flexibility and diversity in the workplace
are framed as special treats rather than the norm.
I'm Rae Johnston and welcome to Getting it right. This
(02:18):
is a podcast from Jobs Bank that helps you hire
a more dynamic, flexible, diverse workforce and how to design
your workplace to keep those hires.
So what does flexibility in the workplace really mean? And
how can you achieve it in your organization?
Dr Karina Davis (02:38):
One of the most important things in the shift of
flexibility is trust. We have to move towards at an
organizational level, a trust in employees.
Rae Johnston (02:47):
This is Karina Davis, she's the CEO of Jobsbank ,
a not for profit that works with businesses to increase
employer inclusivity and therefore fill workforce gaps.
Dr Karina Davis (02:59):
So from my perspective, we can make it really complex
or we can make it relatively simple. There's a list
of all these things that make it really hard at
its most simple. I think flexibility in the workplace is
about meeting the individual and it's a about understanding what
the individual has to offer. It's about the skills and
capabilities that they bring and it's about their life, reality.
(03:23):
And so it's putting those things together to say, ok,
we want this person at our workplace, they bring skill
and capability for us. And so how do we meet
them and come together so that they can live their
best life and they can work and flourish for the
organization and for the employer,
Rae Johnston (03:41):
it wasn't really until the pandemic that working from home
became something that was normal for a lot of different
people in different roles to do. But when we think
about workplace flexibility is it only about the choice in
where you can work from?
Dr Karina Davis (03:57):
No, absolutely not. I've come into the role of CEO
of Jobs Bank from education and I spent a long
time in education. When we think about how flexibility can
work for people and how it can bring people more
successfully and efficiently into the workplace, then we can have
a look at other places like education about how do
(04:18):
they make students flourish in their learning environment. Because at work,
we want people to be efficient and effective and to flourish. Actually,
Rae Johnston (04:27):
you're the CEO of Jobs Bank, how do you create
a flexible workplace?
Dr Karina Davis (04:32):
We have a small team and I have to acknowledge
it's a small team with people with complex lives and
we adjust and adapt to those complex lives in all
sorts of ways. For one of our staff members has
complex carer needs. What we do is we figure out
what are the days where it's possible to come into
the office and what are the days where it isn't?
But then there's a
(04:53):
sorts of other things that need to be adjusted for.
How do we have transparent operational plans and transparency here
across the team about all the things we're working on.
What that does though is means that we've also adjusted
for other people. We have men at Jobs Bank who
want to take on more substantial caring roles of their children.
And that's made those conversations possible
(05:13):
and all of that flexibility when we meet the individual
and meet and understand what they want for themselves. But
we also want to capitalize on their skills and capabilities
means that we just run around each other. And it
doesn't be so difficult actually.
Rae Johnston (05:27):
How important is it to have flexibility, role modeled in
the leadership team of an organization?
Dr Karina Davis (05:36):
I think that there's two kind of approaches to flexibility,
there's a management approach and that's kind of like all
of the realities of making it work. And then there's
absolutely a leadership approach to that. We have to have
the attitude and the mindsets for flexibility. It has to
be modeled. We have to call things in, not just
call things out, we can call out behaviors that mean
(05:57):
it's really difficult for people to come in and work.
But we also need to celebrate and highlight the times
when it does work. One of the most important things
in the shift of flexibility is trust. We have to
move towards at an organizational level, a trust in employees.
I think that before COVID, everyone had to be in,
we had to see the work, we had to see
people doing the work at their desks.
(06:18):
There was a whole lot of rigidity and direction that
was perceived as being needed in the workplace. And that
to me has a lot to do with trust. And
my experience of putting trust in people is that that
trust is so so rewarded by multiples because people will
go over and above what they need to do for
their job because they know that they're trusted to do
(06:39):
that as a leader of an organization, it's really important
for me to constantly reflect on
before I make a judgment or make a call on
what's possible for an organization to manage is really questioning
what I don't know and what I can't see about
people's lives.
Rae Johnston (06:59):
Some HR teams have a huge number of employees, you know,
these complex payroll systems, all these different rostered hours. How
can the needs of individuals to shift their hours of
work around? How does that work in practice in circumstances
like this?
Dr Karina Davis (07:20):
I think that's interesting. I've come from an organization where
there's hundreds of teachers and there are some constraints to flexibility.
Of course, there are nine o'clock starts in a school
you need the teachers in front of the kids. Unless
we're in COVID lockdown, you still need the teachers in
front of the kids online. We've got nurses and hospitals
(07:40):
to run, we've got factory lines to keep going. We've
got bus drivers that we need to run buses and
trains and trams on time. So there is absolutely some constraints.
Rae Johnston (07:49):
Ok. What about outside of white collar industries and offices?
How can employers be more flexible if the workplace is
a hospital or a construction site or a factory where
the structure is a bit more rigid like with shift rostering?
Dr Karina Davis (08:05):
I was just reading a article this morning that talked
about how do we provide the shift rotering process? How
do we give that back to people? And so if
we were more transparent about those shifts and rosters, would
people step in to being able to opt into the
shifts that they can work? And can we trust that
(08:26):
that means that the business needs would be met? That's
a really interesting experience. So this article that I was
reading this morning, which was about what happened if instead
of seeing one person is doing the roster, we opened
the roster up. We had job share. Job share wasn't
set days necessarily what happens if you had someone coming
in for a morning and not an afternoon, there are
(08:46):
all of those sorts of things that can work and
people are out there making it work. It's just that
we have to be open and trusting that we can
open little bits do innovative trials here and there and
see how that happens.
Rae Johnston (08:59):
Karina. What's an example of an organization that's really nailed
having a flexible space
Dr Karina Davis (09:07):
in terms of the flexible and inclusive workspaces. I just
want to call out social enterprises, social enterprises are regularly
core to their business models. Working is to create open employer,
employee relationships that welcome those who have struggled to get
into the workforce back into the workforce and make that work.
(09:29):
In the case of some disability services, they're looking at
what are the actual tasks needed in this moment? And
can we break the sub parts of tasks up and
give some subparts to someone who's got those skills and
another piece of sub tasks to somebody else who's got
those skills and you're not doubling a workforce, you're just
splitting the work differently.
(09:50):
We've got social enterprises who are working with youth and
really looking at youth disengagement as an issue. And how
do you create an inclusive environment so that youth want
to step into work and provide the supports about the
struggles to start to work? What language do you use
at work if it's not been modeled at home, how
do you understand that you need to show up at
nine and leave at five? And what's the value of that?
(10:13):
So really active support of youth in that space, giving
them the opportunity to try lots of different aspects of
jobs so they can land what their passion and commitment
is in terms of a career forging for themselves. There's
all sorts of social enterprise organizations who are doing that
work and corporate organizations, larger organizations have got a lot
(10:35):
to learn from there. And our challenge for innovation is
how do we scale that up? How do we learn
and make that work in a bigger picture?
That's Dr Karina Davis, the CEO of Jobs Bank on
creating an inclusively flexible workspace. And there are plenty more
(10:56):
practical tips at Jobsbank 's resource center. You can find
it at Jobs Bank dot org dot A U,
Rae Johnston (11:04):
I'm Rae Johnston getting it right is a podcast from
Jobs Bank and it's produced by Dead Set Studios. You
can follow the podcast in the podcast app of your choice.
That way you never miss an episode.
This episode was recorded on the unceded lands of the sovereign Darug, Gandangara and Wiradjuri peoples and the Wiradjuri
and Woiwurrung peoples of the Kulin Nation. It was produced and edited
(11:29):
on the lands of the Turrbal and Yuggera people. We wish
to pay our deepest respects to their Elders past and present.
And we ask that you too acknowledge the Aboriginal or
Torres Strait Islander lands on which you're listening from.
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