Hayden Heta’s journey to founding his own construction company didn’t begin on a sawdust-covered worksite.
He was initially a park ranger, before moving into a government role, but it didn’t begin in the parks or the office, either. Instead, it was on the sidelines of the football field, where Hayden coached a team of men in their early 20s, that the idea really began to take shape.
After hearing repeatedly how his players were struggling to find work in construction, Hayden threw his own hat into the ring, and thus began Wamarra, a self-performing contractor connecting Aboriginal people with meaningful careers through long term and sustainable employment.
Hayden shares how his experience as a Wiradjuri man, park ranger and government employee inform his decision-making at Wamarra, and explains why understanding social procurement (and teaching others) is such an important first step.
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Episode Transcript
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Hayden Heta (00:03):
So we're trying to almost educate our clients and other
people within, within the broader sector, that social procurement isn't
something we should be scared of. I mean, I think
once you unpack it and you start thinking about the
social outcomes, you start creating this bigger story of the
reasons why, why does the social procurement framework exist, then
(00:23):
you start to see some amazing, amazing outcomes.
Craig Foster (00:29):
You'd be hard pressed to find a person who knows
what hiring, buying and working with purpose can achieve more
than Hayden Heta. He left his career as a public servant,
working with different Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities across Victoria,
where he saw firsthand the power and the pitfalls of
social procurement, but it was a moment he witnessed out
(00:51):
of the office that really convinced Hayden to strike out
on his own.
I'm Craig Foster and this is Getting it right, the podcast where
you meet the people and businesses who are hiring, buying
and working with purpose and maybe learn a thing or
two along the way.
(01:14):
My
Hayden Heta (01:15):
name's Hayden Heta, Oh, I'm a proud Wiradjuri man and I'm
the managing director for Wamarra. I've grown up in a
pretty tight knit community on the Murray River Albury-Wodonga um
and very much a part of the Aboriginal community there.
My mother is Aboriginal um as I mentioned, Wiradjuri
woman and my dad is Maori and I've grown up embracing
(01:39):
both cultures, the family connection, the cultural connection, definitely big
part of who I am and that's my identity and,
and it's definitely, I guess the start of a pathway
to how I've ended up where I am now
Craig Foster (01:53):
Hayden, you didn't start your career in construction, you were
actually a park ranger. What drew you to that job?
Hayden Heta (02:00):
I grew up in a small community or a small
town
surrounded by all these wonderful natural elements in the Murray river,
close to the snowfields, many water bodies including the Hume Weir . So,
I've grown up, you know, spending all my spare time
out in the outdoors. So I love camping, I love fishing,
(02:21):
and I guess finishing high school, I was a bit lost,
I didn't know what I wanted to do.
I went and worked in an abattoirs as I think
most young people in those small country towns do. And
it was through that year working in the abattoirs that
I realized that I wanted to do something completely different
to what I was doing right then and then and
(02:42):
there and that was being outdoors and not restricted. So
I went and studied an environmental science degree and that was
really the start of my journey into the public sector.
And
as as you mentioned into the role of a park ranger.
Craig Foster (02:57):
So, as this in this park ranger field, that of
course took you into your Aboriginal cultural heritage management, I
guess it also must have opened up a range of
contacts and networks in the Aboriginal community and traditional owner groups.
Hayden Heta (03:13):
Absolutely. So moving from environmental management, I was,
I guess I was providing an opportunity in Aboriginal cultural
heritage management with Parks Victoria, the company I was working
for at the time. Um, and what that role really
opened my eyes to and allowed me a whole, another
(03:37):
layer of experience and expertise was that connection to aboriginal
cultural heritage and and having a deeper understanding of my identity.
It was um, through those early, early engagements, I guess,
with our local Traditional Owners or Traditional Owners in which
in the area in which I was working um, which
(03:59):
provided a new passion of mine, like I mentioned earlier
earlier growing up, I was always connected to my culture
and I was always connected to local community, but I
guess I grew up in a very much a white society,
if I can say that played local sport, had a
(04:20):
lot of non Indigenous friends as well. And um,
doing the role of Aboriginal culture heritage just opened up
my eyes and gave me a new appreciation for my culture. Um,
and it definitely allowed me an experience, um, and a
deeper understanding of how to engage respectfully and why respectful engagement,
(04:42):
respectful Aboriginal participation is so important.
Craig Foster (04:46):
And so when did this concept of social procurement come
across your desk?
Hayden Heta (04:52):
Well, it was after a number of roles in government. Um,
I heard this term social procurement and, and naively I was,
I was having to look at the definition of what
procurement was in general, let alone social procurement. What is
social procurement? Um, and it probably took me two years
to get my head around
(05:13):
the notion that social procurement is really designed at giving
minority groups equal opportunity. It's as simple as that. And
whilst I wasn't directly working in the social procurement space,
as an Aboriginal person supporting, Aboriginal community groups, it was,
(05:34):
it was a topic of conversation more regularly. So I
definitely got my head around social procurement, um, and that's
probably where the,
the idea for Wamarra and for me to create a
business came from is just having that deeper understanding of
social procurement, understanding what works well and what doesn't, and
(05:54):
I guess what's real and what's not in regards to
genuine Aboriginal participation.
Craig Foster (06:00):
And so you were seeing barriers here, a disconnect between
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people with skills who wanted
work and the employers who had worked for them.
Hayden Heta (06:10):
The perception was that the social procurement framework has created
opportunities for all Aboriginal people that are willing and able.
And whilst there's a notion of truth to that, that
the social procurement framework does provide opportunity,
the opportunities just aren't as accessible as what the perception
(06:30):
was in government and where that really came to light
for me was coaching an Aboriginal football side in Melbourne
called the Fitzroy Stars Football club where an incredibly proud
Aboriginal football side with 30 plus years experience, sorry, more
than that, 40 plus years of history and supporting about
(06:52):
an 80% Aboriginal um,
participation or Aboriginal team. And if you think of construction,
you probably think of the demographic being young men. Um
so you know that sort of 24 to 30 year
old bracket. Um and that's the exact bracket of age
that the this football team had and where the frustration
(07:14):
came was that as a coach and as a leader
of a football club, I'm seeing all these young men
trying to enter the construction industry
and they just could not maintain steady employment. A lot
of them were getting opportunity, but just the way the
construction industry is structured I guess and heavily utilizing labor hire
(07:36):
type of businesses. And they absolutely serve a purpose in
our industry. But what it lacked in some cases was continuity.
So if we think the perception in government that there's
all these wonderful opportunities for Aboriginal people and other people,
um those opportunities just aren't as accessible as what what
we thought they were in government. And I was seeing
that play out firsthand. And that was a real frustration
(07:59):
of mine. And where the frustration became even more prominent
for me was that I was gathering all these resumes
from these young men. And the reason that they were
passing their resumes on to me is that I was
working for for a an authority within government that could
directly provide these opportunities to Aboriginal people. So it was
(08:22):
a rail industry and I was with thOse resumes. I
was trying to push them out into the industry into
different Alliances, hoping that they would pick them up and say, yeah,
well we've got a decent candidate here. And unfortunately not
one person was able to gain successful employment.
So that was another kick in the guts, if you like,
(08:43):
for not only me but for the individuals. So that
was a real lightbulb moment for me. So, you know,
I've got the ability here to do something. And in
some ways I felt responsible, it was my responsibility to
do something. And that was really what led me to
start this business.
Craig Foster (09:02):
What's the significance of the name, Wamarra
Hayden Heta (09:06):
Wamarra is a Wiradjuri word. It means 'build'
in the early stages of forming this business. There were
some non negotiables, non negotiables being that the cultural identity
of our business was unwavering. So
that meant that as an Aboriginal man, we had to
understand cultural protocols, understand cultural appropriateness. Um, and the reason
(09:31):
we use Wiradjuri word is that as a majority owner
of this company being a Wiradjuri man, it would make sense.
And it's culturally appropriate for me to use this word. Um, Wamarra,
meaning build, we use that because we're building infrastructure.
Um, so there's sort of a play on words here,
building infrastructure, but more importantly for us, we're building the
(09:52):
capabilities of our community. So it's a really, it's a
really respectful terminology and um, and I think it's it's
resonated with a lot of our, not only our staff,
but our supporters and our advocates that we have on
the peripheral.
Craig Foster (10:09):
What was your vision for Wamarra?
Hayden Heta (10:11):
Um, so there's three key pillars that I work to
and their uncompromising, we stick to them because that's what
we're true true to the core of what we want
to achieve.
The first pillar is providing continuity of employment to all
of our employees are engaged full time. And and ongoing,
the second pillar is to provide up skilling for our
(10:33):
community and how we do that is all of our employees,
from myself through to our newest entrant, have an individualized
career plan. So the career plan is really around capturing
the individual's, aspirations, whether they're directly um
relating to our business and the work that we have
(10:53):
in hand, or whether it's something that they a behavioral
thing that they might want to challenge themselves on, or
or some type of soft skill. And the last pillar,
which I think is the most important pillar to the success of .
our business to this point in time is creating a culturally
safe environment. And what that means for for us in
our businesses is simply Aboriginal people supporting Aboriginal people have
(11:17):
a strong mentoring program, a strong peer support program, but
we also have a number of non Indigenous staff within
our business also where we offer cultural awareness training to
our non Indigenous staff and people on the peripheral
just to create that level of understanding of where some
of the struggles that Aboriginal people have faced in the past,
(11:38):
you know, from a historical point of view, but also
what we can do in regards to unity and collaboration
moving forward.
Craig Foster (11:46):
You'd never run a business before this or even worked
in construction, How did you get Wamarra off the ground?
Hayden Heta (11:52):
I had the motivation to provide those career opportunities for
our community. I had access to a potential workforce. What
I didn't have was the industry knowledge keeping in mind.
I've come from a different environment, different sectors and I
didn't have business knowledge. So I went and did further study.
(12:13):
I went and undertook a graduate certificate in
business management. Um I went and engaged multiple people, even
some of my friends who are business owners just I
guess listen to any any advice that was given to
me around the barriers to create a business and and
also what what advice people have to get this thing
(12:36):
off the ground. So it was months of months and
months of this journey of meeting new people and it
was through
a mutual friend of mine and I always like to
give this person a shout out because it's without him.
We wouldn't be able to, I wouldn't have had this introduction,
it's Gary Mongta from Monero constructions. Um a great friend of
(12:57):
mine who introduced me to uh who is now a
good friend of mine as well. Ben Virtue who is
the new business and strategy manager for the parent company
I guess of Wamarra . So the parent company being SYMAL S Y M A L .
Ben
has a deep passion for Aboriginal people, Aboriginal culture and
(13:20):
he he really wanted to see a successful outcome that
was probably missing from the market. And so it was
it was a classic example of right place, right time
that I had the motivation. I had the cultural IP, I
had the network and I was able to meet who
are now my business partners who have the industry IP
(13:43):
and what we realized very quickly after a couple of
small conversations which led onto a much longer conversation that
we shared the same values, we share the same values
for people, we shared the same values for family
and really in those early introductions, I wasn't there to
(14:03):
pitch an idea and they weren't there to pitch an
idea to me. So if we talk about a partnership
it was a true sense of partnership that there was
no hidden agenda. We came together, we realize
that we could do something that was genuine, it was
authentic and it was going to have the right outcome
for our community which if you if you fast forward
(14:23):
three years down the track, we've had amazing successes and
that's because there's no hidden agendas,
Craig Foster (14:30):
you've been running with Wamarra for a few years now.
What are some of the main mistakes other businesses make
when they're trying to connect with Aboriginal and Torres Strait
Islander people.
Hayden Heta (14:40):
So I spent probably 10 years working in Aboriginal affairs
in some way, shape or form. So a lot of
the role that I had was around
engaging Aboriginal people, encouraging Aboriginal participation for particular government initiatives.
So really that gave me a clear, clear understanding of
where the barriers lie for genuine Aboriginal participation, but also
(15:03):
where the success indicators are. So where I see
companies failing is that they're focused on ticking the box
and meeting these mandated targets without really understanding what the
social outcome is, from meeting those targets. And what I
mean by that is I often I encourage and challenge
(15:25):
our clients to, to almost remove the targets. I know
that sounds a little bit crazy because definitely
the targets within the social procurement framework help businesses like
ours because it gives us that sort of space to
play in. But what I mean by removing the targets...
targets can often create a false ceiling. So once you
(15:46):
hit the target, there's almost no need to use you anymore.
And we've actually been in conversations naively from the other
side of the fence where
um, hey, can you, can you help us build this
early part of the project? We just want to meet
our social target and then not have to worry about it.
(16:07):
So we're trying to almost educate our clients and other
people within, within the broader sector that social procurement isn't
something we should be scared of. I mean, I think
once you unpack it and you start thinking about the
social outcomes, you start creating this biggest story of the
reasons why why does the social procurement framework exist.
Then you start to see some amazing, amazing outcomes. Um,
(16:31):
don't get me wrong, there's, you know, most of our
clients actually, I should say all of our clients are
on this journey with us and we're seeing that narrative
start to change a little bit from hey, we need
to tick the box here to help us tick the box,
meet the targets but exceed the targets and then celebrate
the stories.
Craig Foster (16:52):
Well, let's talk about one of those successful projects. One
of those stories that it is good to talk about
on a big government contract with the Western Program Alliance.
Tell us about Wamarra's work there.
Hayden Heta (17:03):
So we were engaged with the Western Program Alliance almost
at the inception of our business. They engaged early days
with us to build a couple of site establishment projects.
So building their temporary compounds for some of their Level
Crossing Removal Projects And
that was a wonderful foot in the door for our
business because we're able to attract some carpenters, some specific trade,
(17:27):
some laborers concrete hours and we were able to I
guess slowly integrate our business into the industry
through these projects and we started off delivering side establishment
projects of three of them that the Western program Alliance
engaged with us. And um we would we have definitely
put our hand up to say we made some mistakes
(17:48):
early days um you know, as any young contractor does
and I guess this goes to show the level of
support that Western Program Alliance gave us rather than putting
a line through Wamarra, they walked us through and held
our hand through those challenges that we had
um rather than create this commercial um you know, argument
(18:12):
between two contractors, we were able to have that support walk
through our mistakes and then thankfully through that support we
came out the other end a lot stronger which led
us on to other Alliances and other projects and I'm
very proud to say that within the Western Program Alliance
particularly
(18:32):
those early projects and their ability to support us led
to further work with the Western Program Alliance and we
ended up delivering a number of landscaping packages. Like I'm
talking in excess of
7 to $8 million worth of work in a completely
different environment, completely different scope of work in regards to
(18:54):
side establishment to then landscaping. So we sort of bookended
the project and if it wasn't for that genuine support
and engagement from their senior management team which trickled down
to their delivery team
Um we probably wouldn't have got another go with them.
So that that really shows the support that is out
there within the T1 contractors and builders,
Craig Foster (19:19):
it's so important to be able to learn from mistakes
and grow as a business. Have there been other projects
where you've been able to grow with the client, one
Hayden Heta (19:28):
project or one area I'd like to share with you
is the commercial building space where we're working with Lendlease on
a couple of projects. They've actually engaged us on multiple
projects now.
Um, and a couple of those projects don't have social
procurement targets associated with them. So we, we've been engaged
because of the trust they have in our business, the
(19:49):
quality that we provide, the project management that we provide
and I guess the whilst those particular projects don't have
a social procurement target, they've got their own internal aspirations.
So they're really, really
key points that I'd like to share that whilst we
are in Aboriginal business were supported by the social procurement framework. The,
(20:14):
the ability for us to grow the business now to be,
to be competing in a mainstream environment is probably the most,
the proudest part that I have that we've been engaged
because we're good at what we do
Craig Foster (20:26):
as you said earlier, Hayden social procurement is about providing
opportunities for minority groups opportunities they wouldn't otherwise have or
be able to access and in the end it's about
the people, it's about people having opportunities, full time employment training,
tell us about how Wamarra and all of these projects
has changed the lives of your employees.
Hayden Heta (20:47):
We've got many stories of success with not only our
Aboriginal cohort of workers, we've got some international people that
work in our business who have got permanent residency and
other other great things for our broader business and their families,
but specifically for our Aboriginal cohort, we've had
(21:10):
people purchasing their first cars or whether that's outright or
through through a loan. Um, but the one that we like
to celebrate is people purchasing their first homes. Home owning
your first home or owning a home is a real
sense of ownership like that. You're snapping your your your
(21:32):
your ownership on a parcel of land that is yours
and why this is particularly important for us and why
we celebrate this is that they're not just buying their
first homes for their immediate family. They're actually the first
homeowners within the lineage of Aboriginal family. Um, and what
(21:52):
a wonderful thing to celebrate. And if we talk about
breaking the back of poverty or closing the gap or
creating self determination, that's a real great example of doing that.
And I never, I always say that this is that's
not a direct result of Wamarra , that's a direct
result of continuity of employment, job security, financial independence, the
(22:14):
things that we all need regardless of whether you're indigenous
or not having financial independence allows you
and we all know that money doesn't make you happy,
but it definitely provides stability. And it takes, I guess
of what it takes alleviates some anxieties that, you know,
that people do have without having money or job security.
Craig Foster (22:36):
So whether it's similar or the Western Program Alliance or
now Lendlease , talk to other industry leaders, senior management ceo
s director's chairs and just explain to them why social
procurement is so important.
Hayden Heta (22:52):
The social procurement framework also allows us as individuals and
as a collective an opportunity to showcase what we can do. Um,
and I'm watching now what's playing out in our business
that we've got emerging leaders that without these opportunities, they
would still be happy to follow and there's nothing wrong
(23:15):
with that. But I'm just saying this new level of
confidence and I can only imagine what their kids
are seeing at home and seen as role models to them.
That's the real life changing stuff that I like to celebrate, that.
You know, I've got kids at home and I'm sure
they're looking at me sometimes when they're not being embarrassed
(23:37):
by dad, they're looking at me saying, you know, I'm
really proud of what my dad's doing and that's something
that I wanted to aspire to.
Craig Foster (23:44):
Well, they surely must be. And so should you be
very proud of what you achieve? Let's just finally reflect
back on that footy field
and those under your tutelage that you came to understand
the problems they were facing, the barriers that were in
front of them. And you're sitting here today with one
mara is a hugely successful business in many respects, particularly socially.
(24:06):
How has it changed your life? And tell us about
that journey?
Hayden Heta (24:10):
It's changed my life in a number of ways. I
mean in so many ways I'm still the same, you know,
like a putting the
um the fact that I've been able to start a
successful business from essentially nothing, um you know, I've grown
up in Housing Commission um coming from incredibly humble background
(24:32):
um to now experience financial independence myself and to provide,
you know, maybe a better life for my family, although
I've always been happy and healthy and always been able
to provide for my family, I think it's the ability
to provide other things that I might not have had
(24:52):
when I was a younger person. Um so there's definitely
those elements that I'm incredibly proud of that have changed
in my life.
Um my outlook is still the same, My values are
still the same. My commitment to my family and community
is still the same. So yeah, like I said it
whilst it's provided other things for me, I think it's relatively,
(25:14):
I'm still the same.
Craig Foster (25:19):
I'm Craig Foster and this is Getting it right, make
sure you're following us in your podcast app, so you
don't miss an episode, there's plenty of inspiring stories full
of practical lessons no matter if you're a big company,
small business, government department or not for profit.
Getting it right is a Jobsbank podcast produced by Dead set Studios.
So we're trying to almost educate our clients and other
people within, within the broader sector, that social procurement isn't
something we should be scared of. I mean, I think
once you unpack it and you start thinking about the
social outcomes, you start creating this bigger story of the
reasons why, why does the social procurement framework exist, then
(00:23):
you start to see some amazing, amazing outcomes.
Craig Foster (00:29):
You'd be hard pressed to find a person who knows
what hiring, buying and working with purpose can achieve more
than Hayden Heta. He left his career as a public servant,
working with different Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities across Victoria,
where he saw firsthand the power and the pitfalls of
social procurement, but it was a moment he witnessed out
(00:51):
of the office that really convinced Hayden to strike out
on his own.
I'm Craig Foster and this is Getting it right, the podcast where
you meet the people and businesses who are hiring, buying
and working with purpose and maybe learn a thing or
two along the way.
(01:14):
My
Hayden Heta (01:15):
name's Hayden Heta, Oh, I'm a proud Wiradjuri man and I'm
the managing director for Wamarra. I've grown up in a
pretty tight knit community on the Murray River Albury-Wodonga um
and very much a part of the Aboriginal community there.
My mother is Aboriginal um as I mentioned, Wiradjuri
woman and my dad is Maori and I've grown up embracing
(01:39):
both cultures, the family connection, the cultural connection, definitely big
part of who I am and that's my identity and,
and it's definitely, I guess the start of a pathway
to how I've ended up where I am now
Craig Foster (01:53):
Hayden, you didn't start your career in construction, you were
actually a park ranger. What drew you to that job?
Hayden Heta (02:00):
I grew up in a small community or a small
town
surrounded by all these wonderful natural elements in the Murray river,
close to the snowfields, many water bodies including the Hume Weir . So,
I've grown up, you know, spending all my spare time
out in the outdoors. So I love camping, I love fishing,
(02:21):
and I guess finishing high school, I was a bit lost,
I didn't know what I wanted to do.
I went and worked in an abattoirs as I think
most young people in those small country towns do. And
it was through that year working in the abattoirs that
I realized that I wanted to do something completely different
to what I was doing right then and then and
(02:42):
there and that was being outdoors and not restricted. So
I went and studied an environmental science degree and that was
really the start of my journey into the public sector.
And
as as you mentioned into the role of a park ranger.
Craig Foster (02:57):
So, as this in this park ranger field, that of
course took you into your Aboriginal cultural heritage management, I
guess it also must have opened up a range of
contacts and networks in the Aboriginal community and traditional owner groups.
Hayden Heta (03:13):
Absolutely. So moving from environmental management, I was,
I guess I was providing an opportunity in Aboriginal cultural
heritage management with Parks Victoria, the company I was working
for at the time. Um, and what that role really
opened my eyes to and allowed me a whole, another
(03:37):
layer of experience and expertise was that connection to aboriginal
cultural heritage and and having a deeper understanding of my identity.
It was um, through those early, early engagements, I guess,
with our local Traditional Owners or Traditional Owners in which
in the area in which I was working um, which
(03:59):
provided a new passion of mine, like I mentioned earlier
earlier growing up, I was always connected to my culture
and I was always connected to local community, but I
guess I grew up in a very much a white society,
if I can say that played local sport, had a
(04:20):
lot of non Indigenous friends as well. And um,
doing the role of Aboriginal culture heritage just opened up
my eyes and gave me a new appreciation for my culture. Um,
and it definitely allowed me an experience, um, and a
deeper understanding of how to engage respectfully and why respectful engagement,
(04:42):
respectful Aboriginal participation is so important.
Craig Foster (04:46):
And so when did this concept of social procurement come
across your desk?
Hayden Heta (04:52):
Well, it was after a number of roles in government. Um,
I heard this term social procurement and, and naively I was,
I was having to look at the definition of what
procurement was in general, let alone social procurement. What is
social procurement? Um, and it probably took me two years
to get my head around
(05:13):
the notion that social procurement is really designed at giving
minority groups equal opportunity. It's as simple as that. And
whilst I wasn't directly working in the social procurement space,
as an Aboriginal person supporting, Aboriginal community groups, it was,
(05:34):
it was a topic of conversation more regularly. So I
definitely got my head around social procurement, um, and that's
probably where the,
the idea for Wamarra and for me to create a
business came from is just having that deeper understanding of
social procurement, understanding what works well and what doesn't, and
(05:54):
I guess what's real and what's not in regards to
genuine Aboriginal participation.
Craig Foster (06:00):
And so you were seeing barriers here, a disconnect between
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people with skills who wanted
work and the employers who had worked for them.
Hayden Heta (06:10):
The perception was that the social procurement framework has created
opportunities for all Aboriginal people that are willing and able.
And whilst there's a notion of truth to that, that
the social procurement framework does provide opportunity,
the opportunities just aren't as accessible as what the perception
(06:30):
was in government and where that really came to light
for me was coaching an Aboriginal football side in Melbourne
called the Fitzroy Stars Football club where an incredibly proud
Aboriginal football side with 30 plus years experience, sorry, more
than that, 40 plus years of history and supporting about
(06:52):
an 80% Aboriginal um,
participation or Aboriginal team. And if you think of construction,
you probably think of the demographic being young men. Um
so you know that sort of 24 to 30 year
old bracket. Um and that's the exact bracket of age
that the this football team had and where the frustration
(07:14):
came was that as a coach and as a leader
of a football club, I'm seeing all these young men
trying to enter the construction industry
and they just could not maintain steady employment. A lot
of them were getting opportunity, but just the way the
construction industry is structured I guess and heavily utilizing labor hire
(07:36):
type of businesses. And they absolutely serve a purpose in
our industry. But what it lacked in some cases was continuity.
So if we think the perception in government that there's
all these wonderful opportunities for Aboriginal people and other people,
um those opportunities just aren't as accessible as what what
we thought they were in government. And I was seeing
that play out firsthand. And that was a real frustration
(07:59):
of mine. And where the frustration became even more prominent
for me was that I was gathering all these resumes
from these young men. And the reason that they were
passing their resumes on to me is that I was
working for for a an authority within government that could
directly provide these opportunities to Aboriginal people. So it was
(08:22):
a rail industry and I was with thOse resumes. I
was trying to push them out into the industry into
different Alliances, hoping that they would pick them up and say, yeah,
well we've got a decent candidate here. And unfortunately not
one person was able to gain successful employment.
So that was another kick in the guts, if you like,
(08:43):
for not only me but for the individuals. So that
was a real lightbulb moment for me. So, you know,
I've got the ability here to do something. And in
some ways I felt responsible, it was my responsibility to
do something. And that was really what led me to
start this business.
Craig Foster (09:02):
What's the significance of the name, Wamarra
Hayden Heta (09:06):
Wamarra is a Wiradjuri word. It means 'build'
in the early stages of forming this business. There were
some non negotiables, non negotiables being that the cultural identity
of our business was unwavering. So
that meant that as an Aboriginal man, we had to
understand cultural protocols, understand cultural appropriateness. Um, and the reason
(09:31):
we use Wiradjuri word is that as a majority owner
of this company being a Wiradjuri man, it would make sense.
And it's culturally appropriate for me to use this word. Um, Wamarra,
meaning build, we use that because we're building infrastructure.
Um, so there's sort of a play on words here,
building infrastructure, but more importantly for us, we're building the
(09:52):
capabilities of our community. So it's a really, it's a
really respectful terminology and um, and I think it's it's
resonated with a lot of our, not only our staff,
but our supporters and our advocates that we have on
the peripheral.
Craig Foster (10:09):
What was your vision for Wamarra?
Hayden Heta (10:11):
Um, so there's three key pillars that I work to
and their uncompromising, we stick to them because that's what
we're true true to the core of what we want
to achieve.
The first pillar is providing continuity of employment to all
of our employees are engaged full time. And and ongoing,
the second pillar is to provide up skilling for our
(10:33):
community and how we do that is all of our employees,
from myself through to our newest entrant, have an individualized
career plan. So the career plan is really around capturing
the individual's, aspirations, whether they're directly um
relating to our business and the work that we have
(10:53):
in hand, or whether it's something that they a behavioral
thing that they might want to challenge themselves on, or
or some type of soft skill. And the last pillar,
which I think is the most important pillar to the success of .
our business to this point in time is creating a culturally
safe environment. And what that means for for us in
our businesses is simply Aboriginal people supporting Aboriginal people have
(11:17):
a strong mentoring program, a strong peer support program, but
we also have a number of non Indigenous staff within
our business also where we offer cultural awareness training to
our non Indigenous staff and people on the peripheral
just to create that level of understanding of where some
of the struggles that Aboriginal people have faced in the past,
(11:38):
you know, from a historical point of view, but also
what we can do in regards to unity and collaboration
moving forward.
Craig Foster (11:46):
You'd never run a business before this or even worked
in construction, How did you get Wamarra off the ground?
Hayden Heta (11:52):
I had the motivation to provide those career opportunities for
our community. I had access to a potential workforce. What
I didn't have was the industry knowledge keeping in mind.
I've come from a different environment, different sectors and I
didn't have business knowledge. So I went and did further study.
(12:13):
I went and undertook a graduate certificate in
business management. Um I went and engaged multiple people, even
some of my friends who are business owners just I
guess listen to any any advice that was given to
me around the barriers to create a business and and
also what what advice people have to get this thing
(12:36):
off the ground. So it was months of months and
months of this journey of meeting new people and it
was through
a mutual friend of mine and I always like to
give this person a shout out because it's without him.
We wouldn't be able to, I wouldn't have had this introduction,
it's Gary Mongta from Monero constructions. Um a great friend of
(12:57):
mine who introduced me to uh who is now a
good friend of mine as well. Ben Virtue who is
the new business and strategy manager for the parent company
I guess of Wamarra . So the parent company being SYMAL S Y M A L .
Ben
has a deep passion for Aboriginal people, Aboriginal culture and
(13:20):
he he really wanted to see a successful outcome that
was probably missing from the market. And so it was
it was a classic example of right place, right time
that I had the motivation. I had the cultural IP, I
had the network and I was able to meet who
are now my business partners who have the industry IP
(13:43):
and what we realized very quickly after a couple of
small conversations which led onto a much longer conversation that
we shared the same values, we share the same values
for people, we shared the same values for family
and really in those early introductions, I wasn't there to
(14:03):
pitch an idea and they weren't there to pitch an
idea to me. So if we talk about a partnership
it was a true sense of partnership that there was
no hidden agenda. We came together, we realize
that we could do something that was genuine, it was
authentic and it was going to have the right outcome
for our community which if you if you fast forward
(14:23):
three years down the track, we've had amazing successes and
that's because there's no hidden agendas,
Craig Foster (14:30):
you've been running with Wamarra for a few years now.
What are some of the main mistakes other businesses make
when they're trying to connect with Aboriginal and Torres Strait
Islander people.
Hayden Heta (14:40):
So I spent probably 10 years working in Aboriginal affairs
in some way, shape or form. So a lot of
the role that I had was around
engaging Aboriginal people, encouraging Aboriginal participation for particular government initiatives.
So really that gave me a clear, clear understanding of
where the barriers lie for genuine Aboriginal participation, but also
(15:03):
where the success indicators are. So where I see
companies failing is that they're focused on ticking the box
and meeting these mandated targets without really understanding what the
social outcome is, from meeting those targets. And what I
mean by that is I often I encourage and challenge
(15:25):
our clients to, to almost remove the targets. I know
that sounds a little bit crazy because definitely
the targets within the social procurement framework help businesses like
ours because it gives us that sort of space to
play in. But what I mean by removing the targets...
targets can often create a false ceiling. So once you
(15:46):
hit the target, there's almost no need to use you anymore.
And we've actually been in conversations naively from the other
side of the fence where
um, hey, can you, can you help us build this
early part of the project? We just want to meet
our social target and then not have to worry about it.
(16:07):
So we're trying to almost educate our clients and other
people within, within the broader sector that social procurement isn't
something we should be scared of. I mean, I think
once you unpack it and you start thinking about the
social outcomes, you start creating this biggest story of the
reasons why why does the social procurement framework exist.
Then you start to see some amazing, amazing outcomes. Um,
(16:31):
don't get me wrong, there's, you know, most of our
clients actually, I should say all of our clients are
on this journey with us and we're seeing that narrative
start to change a little bit from hey, we need
to tick the box here to help us tick the box,
meet the targets but exceed the targets and then celebrate
the stories.
Craig Foster (16:52):
Well, let's talk about one of those successful projects. One
of those stories that it is good to talk about
on a big government contract with the Western Program Alliance.
Tell us about Wamarra's work there.
Hayden Heta (17:03):
So we were engaged with the Western Program Alliance almost
at the inception of our business. They engaged early days
with us to build a couple of site establishment projects.
So building their temporary compounds for some of their Level
Crossing Removal Projects And
that was a wonderful foot in the door for our
business because we're able to attract some carpenters, some specific trade,
(17:27):
some laborers concrete hours and we were able to I
guess slowly integrate our business into the industry
through these projects and we started off delivering side establishment
projects of three of them that the Western program Alliance
engaged with us. And um we would we have definitely
put our hand up to say we made some mistakes
(17:48):
early days um you know, as any young contractor does
and I guess this goes to show the level of
support that Western Program Alliance gave us rather than putting
a line through Wamarra, they walked us through and held
our hand through those challenges that we had
um rather than create this commercial um you know, argument
(18:12):
between two contractors, we were able to have that support walk
through our mistakes and then thankfully through that support we
came out the other end a lot stronger which led
us on to other Alliances and other projects and I'm
very proud to say that within the Western Program Alliance
particularly
(18:32):
those early projects and their ability to support us led
to further work with the Western Program Alliance and we
ended up delivering a number of landscaping packages. Like I'm
talking in excess of
7 to $8 million worth of work in a completely
different environment, completely different scope of work in regards to
(18:54):
side establishment to then landscaping. So we sort of bookended
the project and if it wasn't for that genuine support
and engagement from their senior management team which trickled down
to their delivery team
Um we probably wouldn't have got another go with them.
So that that really shows the support that is out
there within the T1 contractors and builders,
Craig Foster (19:19):
it's so important to be able to learn from mistakes
and grow as a business. Have there been other projects
where you've been able to grow with the client, one
Hayden Heta (19:28):
project or one area I'd like to share with you
is the commercial building space where we're working with Lendlease on
a couple of projects. They've actually engaged us on multiple
projects now.
Um, and a couple of those projects don't have social
procurement targets associated with them. So we, we've been engaged
because of the trust they have in our business, the
(19:49):
quality that we provide, the project management that we provide
and I guess the whilst those particular projects don't have
a social procurement target, they've got their own internal aspirations.
So they're really, really
key points that I'd like to share that whilst we
are in Aboriginal business were supported by the social procurement framework. The,
(20:14):
the ability for us to grow the business now to be,
to be competing in a mainstream environment is probably the most,
the proudest part that I have that we've been engaged
because we're good at what we do
Craig Foster (20:26):
as you said earlier, Hayden social procurement is about providing
opportunities for minority groups opportunities they wouldn't otherwise have or
be able to access and in the end it's about
the people, it's about people having opportunities, full time employment training,
tell us about how Wamarra and all of these projects
has changed the lives of your employees.
Hayden Heta (20:47):
We've got many stories of success with not only our
Aboriginal cohort of workers, we've got some international people that
work in our business who have got permanent residency and
other other great things for our broader business and their families,
but specifically for our Aboriginal cohort, we've had
(21:10):
people purchasing their first cars or whether that's outright or
through through a loan. Um, but the one that we like
to celebrate is people purchasing their first homes. Home owning
your first home or owning a home is a real
sense of ownership like that. You're snapping your your your
(21:32):
your ownership on a parcel of land that is yours
and why this is particularly important for us and why
we celebrate this is that they're not just buying their
first homes for their immediate family. They're actually the first
homeowners within the lineage of Aboriginal family. Um, and what
(21:52):
a wonderful thing to celebrate. And if we talk about
breaking the back of poverty or closing the gap or
creating self determination, that's a real great example of doing that.
And I never, I always say that this is that's
not a direct result of Wamarra , that's a direct
result of continuity of employment, job security, financial independence, the
(22:14):
things that we all need regardless of whether you're indigenous
or not having financial independence allows you
and we all know that money doesn't make you happy,
but it definitely provides stability. And it takes, I guess
of what it takes alleviates some anxieties that, you know,
that people do have without having money or job security.
Craig Foster (22:36):
So whether it's similar or the Western Program Alliance or
now Lendlease , talk to other industry leaders, senior management ceo
s director's chairs and just explain to them why social
procurement is so important.
Hayden Heta (22:52):
The social procurement framework also allows us as individuals and
as a collective an opportunity to showcase what we can do. Um,
and I'm watching now what's playing out in our business
that we've got emerging leaders that without these opportunities, they
would still be happy to follow and there's nothing wrong
(23:15):
with that. But I'm just saying this new level of
confidence and I can only imagine what their kids
are seeing at home and seen as role models to them.
That's the real life changing stuff that I like to celebrate, that.
You know, I've got kids at home and I'm sure
they're looking at me sometimes when they're not being embarrassed
(23:37):
by dad, they're looking at me saying, you know, I'm
really proud of what my dad's doing and that's something
that I wanted to aspire to.
Craig Foster (23:44):
Well, they surely must be. And so should you be
very proud of what you achieve? Let's just finally reflect
back on that footy field
and those under your tutelage that you came to understand
the problems they were facing, the barriers that were in
front of them. And you're sitting here today with one
mara is a hugely successful business in many respects, particularly socially.
(24:06):
How has it changed your life? And tell us about
that journey?
Hayden Heta (24:10):
It's changed my life in a number of ways. I
mean in so many ways I'm still the same, you know,
like a putting the
um the fact that I've been able to start a
successful business from essentially nothing, um you know, I've grown
up in Housing Commission um coming from incredibly humble background
(24:32):
um to now experience financial independence myself and to provide,
you know, maybe a better life for my family, although
I've always been happy and healthy and always been able
to provide for my family, I think it's the ability
to provide other things that I might not have had
(24:52):
when I was a younger person. Um so there's definitely
those elements that I'm incredibly proud of that have changed
in my life.
Um my outlook is still the same, My values are
still the same. My commitment to my family and community
is still the same. So yeah, like I said it
whilst it's provided other things for me, I think it's relatively,
(25:14):
I'm still the same.
Craig Foster (25:19):
I'm Craig Foster and this is Getting it right, make
sure you're following us in your podcast app, so you
don't miss an episode, there's plenty of inspiring stories full
of practical lessons no matter if you're a big company,
small business, government department or not for profit.
Getting it right is a Jobsbank podcast produced by Dead set Studios.
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