August 20, 2025 • 9 mins
Bo and Beth welcome Cyber Security Expert Theresa Payton as they discuss the report of an inappropriate conversation that a Meta A.I. chatbot had with a child, raising child safety concerns.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is good Morning, Bet Wednesday hump Day News Talk
eleven ten nine to nine three dou WBT and worldwide
on the WBT mobile app, and anytime of day on
demand on Spotify. Boen Beth here in time to welcome
our longtime cybersecurity expert member of the Extended Show family.
(00:25):
Here we can say that the founder of Forderless Solutions.
You can follow her on x at Tracker. Peyton is
her handle. The one and only Teresa Payton, who I
have it on good authority, is on her way to
Quantico later today. How about that?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Teresa, Hey, good morning, and yes, I am on my
way to Quantico to spend some time with the FDI
today and tomorrow. I'm always looking forward to those conversations,
giving a briefing and getting briefings. I always walk away
much smarter and also very encouraged by the brave men
and women who serve in the FDI.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
You're one of the coolest people that I've ever met
in my whole life.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
No, I just know lots of cool people like you,
Beth Tho.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Well, we all just try to be cool, Yeah, we
try to. Now listen to this. I heard this from
Teresa did you know this now the Winter Olympics are
still with their next year and then we're several years
away from the LA Summer Olympics. But did you know,
and I know this because of Teresa, the robot Olympics
(01:30):
are underway in China. Is that right, Teresa? That's correct?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
There's a human noise from sixteen nations. I guess you
could call it competing, but based on the videos I saw,
I wouldn't call it very competitive.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
But they're really like that. There's a robot Olympics. I mean,
who knows?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Actually scares me that we now have a robot Olympics.
I hope we don't ever get to a point where
the actual Olympics has robots in it competing against the humans.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I mean, are we living a movie right now? They
call it the World Humanoid Robot Games. I don't know
what could go wrong, but the robots are competing, and
based on the videos I've seen, they're not doing well.
So some of them are falling over just in the
middle of the sport. Actually, it's you know, I would
(02:24):
say kind of three to five year old soccer games
probably go.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Oh oh BLUs.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I've been there and done that one and you're not wrong.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Well, you know what, Teresa, I'm glad you said something
about three to five year olds because I do want
to take a serious turn with our conversation with you
today based on another story that you alerted us to.
You posted about this yesterday on social media, and I
would love to get an in depth take on this.
But a US senator is opening an investigation into Meta
(02:55):
after a leaked document reportedly reportedly showed that the tech
giants artificial intelligence was actually permitted to have romantic or
even sensual chats with children. And I feel like Meta
has a lot of explaining to do with this, and
I'm wondering about legal ramifications, right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I mean, here's the thing. Meta has a couple of
weeks to turn over documents and then I'm assuming there
will be sworn testimony taken from executives from Meta. I
doubt mister Zuckerberg will show up, but you never know.
But honestly, Meta needs to explain their past, current and
future protections for children. The first question is that I
(03:38):
have for the Hill, did Meta break any laws? And
so there's two answers to that. If they say no,
they didn't break a law, then in this country. We
are behind on children's protections. But if they did break
the law, I would like to know what are the
consequences going to be? Because we have this big theater
on the hill where people come and testify and say,
(04:00):
we know we need to do better, but you don't
really see any ramifications and you don't really see things
getting better.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Right, and then you just see these tech billionaires, you know,
with leaders at events, and so you think, well, what
what are these consequences if our children aren't protected?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, I mean we deserve better for our children. Our
children deserve better from us. And and Beth and I
say this very seriously, but it sounds funny too at
the same time. You know, we were talking about robots
and like three to five year olds playing soccer probably
would do a better job than robots. It is the
same thing when you hear things like agentic AI or
(04:39):
AI chatbots or AI algorithms, or you're interacting with chatybut
or Gemini or Claude or you know, pick your tool.
These tools are very immature. They are not technology proven,
they are not tested. They do things like hallucinate and candidly.
They do operate like you walk in to a library
(05:01):
with a group of kindergarteners and you see of the
whole library to choose from, bring me a book that
has this topic. And you know a lot of times
kids will grab the first thing that they see and
bring it back to you. That doesn't always mean it's
the right answer. And that's the way I want people
to be thinking about this technology. It's very immature, which
(05:21):
means our children, for certain, should not be interacting with it. Also,
if you're using it for work, you should have other
ways that you vet the sources. So if you get
an answer from CHATCHYBT, do yourself a favor and go
do research at an authoritative, vetted research paper or source
(05:42):
or new source, and then compare it to the answer
you got to chat Gypt. It might not always be accurate.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Well, if you're a parent, or you're just anybody out
there just trying to make it in life, and you're
hearing all these headlines about AI, it's enough to make
you really really worry about where this is all going going.
On the flip side of that, there's a piece in
the Atlantic and the title of it is AI is
a mass delusion. Event I read you just a little
(06:09):
bit of this It says this strange brew of shock, confusion,
and ambivalence is the defining emotion of the generative AI era.
Three years into the hype, it seems that one of
AI's enduring cultural impacts is to make people feel like
they're losing it. And you know, there's a lot of
truth to that. People hear about all these headlines and
(06:30):
it sounds so doomsdayish, and then you turn around you'll
hear a headline about how AI is actually helping someone
do something, and it's hard to know to draw that
line between robots are going to rule the world in
five years and hey, you know, if we can harness
this correctly, maybe it can actually be of benefit.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Well, and there are so many stories Teresa books, movies, films,
everything that talks about a version of AI and the
fact that it is not human and discovering that the
humans are the problem and then lord knows what happens
And go to any plot line of any you know,
dark book or futuristic film.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah. I think the way I like to look at
this technology is to say, with governance and guardrails, this
technology is going to be incredibly amazing and helpful, but
it's new technology. And what feels different about it is is,
you know, when the Internet became a thing where it
(07:31):
was available to everybody, not just academic research institutions and
big corporate America, but it was something everybody could interact with.
And the thing about that technology iteration was it mostly
was creating new growth in the economy, new types of jobs,
not necessarily shedding and eliminating jobs. The thing that people
(07:54):
are experiencing right now is a lot like when we
saw the textile industry get this mediated in the Carolinas
by offshoring of textile making as well as you know,
sort of the automation that came to text self. But
it's happening across all sectors in all industries, So it
feels unsettling. But with the right governance and guardrails and
(08:16):
the right conversations, this technology has the power to give
us individualized, you know, healthcare diagnosis. It has the power
to help us sort through information and a security operations
center to stop the next ransomware event. Like, it has
incredible opportunities, but we don't have the right conversations going
on about safe and secure use of this technology.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, I feel like we're a couple of steps away
from Ultron having no strings, you know. I mean, you
come around the corner and there's James Spader and he
has no strings. If you saw the second Avengers movie,
you know what I'm saying. Teresa Payton, our cybersecurity expert,
have safe travels as you head to Quantico today and
look forward to hearing stories reporting back on that, and
(08:59):
remember to follow to Lisa on x at Tracker Payton
twenty four to seven. Thank you so much, Beth and.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Bo always great to be with you. Be safe out there,
This is good Morning, Bet Wednesday hump Day News Talk
eleven ten nine to nine three dou WBT and worldwide
on the WBT mobile app, and anytime of day on
demand on Spotify. Boen Beth here in time to welcome
our longtime cybersecurity expert member of the Extended Show family.
(00:25):
Here we can say that the founder of Forderless Solutions.
You can follow her on x at Tracker. Peyton is
her handle. The one and only Teresa Payton, who I
have it on good authority, is on her way to
Quantico later today. How about that?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Teresa, Hey, good morning, and yes, I am on my
way to Quantico to spend some time with the FDI
today and tomorrow. I'm always looking forward to those conversations,
giving a briefing and getting briefings. I always walk away
much smarter and also very encouraged by the brave men
and women who serve in the FDI.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
You're one of the coolest people that I've ever met
in my whole life.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
No, I just know lots of cool people like you,
Beth Tho.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Well, we all just try to be cool, Yeah, we
try to. Now listen to this. I heard this from
Teresa did you know this now the Winter Olympics are
still with their next year and then we're several years
away from the LA Summer Olympics. But did you know,
and I know this because of Teresa, the robot Olympics
(01:30):
are underway in China. Is that right, Teresa? That's correct?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
There's a human noise from sixteen nations. I guess you
could call it competing, but based on the videos I saw,
I wouldn't call it very competitive.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
But they're really like that. There's a robot Olympics. I mean,
who knows?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Actually scares me that we now have a robot Olympics.
I hope we don't ever get to a point where
the actual Olympics has robots in it competing against the humans.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I mean, are we living a movie right now? They
call it the World Humanoid Robot Games. I don't know
what could go wrong, but the robots are competing, and
based on the videos I've seen, they're not doing well.
So some of them are falling over just in the
middle of the sport. Actually, it's you know, I would
(02:24):
say kind of three to five year old soccer games
probably go.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Oh oh BLUs.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I've been there and done that one and you're not wrong.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Well, you know what, Teresa, I'm glad you said something
about three to five year olds because I do want
to take a serious turn with our conversation with you
today based on another story that you alerted us to.
You posted about this yesterday on social media, and I
would love to get an in depth take on this.
But a US senator is opening an investigation into Meta
(02:55):
after a leaked document reportedly reportedly showed that the tech
giants artificial intelligence was actually permitted to have romantic or
even sensual chats with children. And I feel like Meta
has a lot of explaining to do with this, and
I'm wondering about legal ramifications, right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I mean, here's the thing. Meta has a couple of
weeks to turn over documents and then I'm assuming there
will be sworn testimony taken from executives from Meta. I
doubt mister Zuckerberg will show up, but you never know.
But honestly, Meta needs to explain their past, current and
future protections for children. The first question is that I
(03:38):
have for the Hill, did Meta break any laws? And
so there's two answers to that. If they say no,
they didn't break a law, then in this country. We
are behind on children's protections. But if they did break
the law, I would like to know what are the
consequences going to be? Because we have this big theater
on the hill where people come and testify and say,
(04:00):
we know we need to do better, but you don't
really see any ramifications and you don't really see things
getting better.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Right, and then you just see these tech billionaires, you know,
with leaders at events, and so you think, well, what
what are these consequences if our children aren't protected?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, I mean we deserve better for our children. Our
children deserve better from us. And and Beth and I
say this very seriously, but it sounds funny too at
the same time. You know, we were talking about robots
and like three to five year olds playing soccer probably
would do a better job than robots. It is the
same thing when you hear things like agentic AI or
(04:39):
AI chatbots or AI algorithms, or you're interacting with chatybut
or Gemini or Claude or you know, pick your tool.
These tools are very immature. They are not technology proven,
they are not tested. They do things like hallucinate and candidly.
They do operate like you walk in to a library
(05:01):
with a group of kindergarteners and you see of the
whole library to choose from, bring me a book that
has this topic. And you know a lot of times
kids will grab the first thing that they see and
bring it back to you. That doesn't always mean it's
the right answer. And that's the way I want people
to be thinking about this technology. It's very immature, which
(05:21):
means our children, for certain, should not be interacting with it. Also,
if you're using it for work, you should have other
ways that you vet the sources. So if you get
an answer from CHATCHYBT, do yourself a favor and go
do research at an authoritative, vetted research paper or source
(05:42):
or new source, and then compare it to the answer
you got to chat Gypt. It might not always be accurate.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Well, if you're a parent, or you're just anybody out
there just trying to make it in life, and you're
hearing all these headlines about AI, it's enough to make
you really really worry about where this is all going going.
On the flip side of that, there's a piece in
the Atlantic and the title of it is AI is
a mass delusion. Event I read you just a little
(06:09):
bit of this It says this strange brew of shock, confusion,
and ambivalence is the defining emotion of the generative AI era.
Three years into the hype, it seems that one of
AI's enduring cultural impacts is to make people feel like
they're losing it. And you know, there's a lot of
truth to that. People hear about all these headlines and
(06:30):
it sounds so doomsdayish, and then you turn around you'll
hear a headline about how AI is actually helping someone
do something, and it's hard to know to draw that
line between robots are going to rule the world in
five years and hey, you know, if we can harness
this correctly, maybe it can actually be of benefit.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Well, and there are so many stories Teresa books, movies, films,
everything that talks about a version of AI and the
fact that it is not human and discovering that the
humans are the problem and then lord knows what happens
And go to any plot line of any you know,
dark book or futuristic film.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah. I think the way I like to look at
this technology is to say, with governance and guardrails, this
technology is going to be incredibly amazing and helpful, but
it's new technology. And what feels different about it is is,
you know, when the Internet became a thing where it
(07:31):
was available to everybody, not just academic research institutions and
big corporate America, but it was something everybody could interact with.
And the thing about that technology iteration was it mostly
was creating new growth in the economy, new types of jobs,
not necessarily shedding and eliminating jobs. The thing that people
(07:54):
are experiencing right now is a lot like when we
saw the textile industry get this mediated in the Carolinas
by offshoring of textile making as well as you know,
sort of the automation that came to text self. But
it's happening across all sectors in all industries, So it
feels unsettling. But with the right governance and guardrails and
(08:16):
the right conversations, this technology has the power to give
us individualized, you know, healthcare diagnosis. It has the power
to help us sort through information and a security operations
center to stop the next ransomware event. Like, it has
incredible opportunities, but we don't have the right conversations going
on about safe and secure use of this technology.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, I feel like we're a couple of steps away
from Ultron having no strings, you know. I mean, you
come around the corner and there's James Spader and he
has no strings. If you saw the second Avengers movie,
you know what I'm saying. Teresa Payton, our cybersecurity expert,
have safe travels as you head to Quantico today and
look forward to hearing stories reporting back on that, and
(08:59):
remember to follow to Lisa on x at Tracker Payton
twenty four to seven. Thank you so much, Beth and.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Bo always great to be with you. Be safe out there,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!