June 27, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode, we talk to Vincent Fantauzzo – the Melbourne portrait artist famous for hyperrealist renderings of a long list of prominent people. He’s painted movie stars (like Hugh Jackman), underworld figures (like Mick Gatto), politicians (like Julia Gillard), sporting heroes (like Oscar Piastri) and icons (like Michael Gudinski). Good Weekend senior writer Konrad Marshall profiled Fantauzzo for a June cover story – "Keeping it real" – about not just his prize-winning works but his rough-and-tumble beginnings, which included more than mere brushes with violence and crime. As they discuss in this emotionally charged conversation, Fantauzzo endured a dysfunctional early life, not to mention an unhealthy dose of insecurity and shame over a learning disorder he kept hidden. He overcame all that to receive plaudits – and occasional brickbats – for his work so far, but his real mission is both simple and grand: “To Jamie Oliver the art world”.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:09):
Hi, I'm Konrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald
and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine
for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from
sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week,
you can download new episodes in which top journalists from
across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive
(00:29):
stories of the day. In this episode, we talk to
Vincent Fantauzzo. Fantuzzo, of course, is the Melbourne born portrait
artist famous for hyper realistic renderings of a long list
of prominent people. He's painted movie stars like Hugh Jackman,
underworld figures like Mick Gatto, politicians like Julia Gillard, athletes
(00:50):
like Oscar Piastri and icons like Michael Gudinski. I profiled
Vincent for Good Weekend last month. To learn more about
not just his prize winning works, but Vincent's rough and
tumble beginnings, which included more than mere brushes with violence
and crime, and which stem in some ways from a
dysfunctional early life and a learning disability he kept hidden.
(01:12):
Listeners should be advised that this episode deals with suicide
and depression. If you are seeking help, please contact lifeline
on one three 1114. But for now, it's my pleasure
to have Vincent in the studio for a chat about
his turbulent and remarkable life so far. Welcome, Vincent.
S2 (01:29):
Thanks, Conrad. I think Mick Gatto refers to himself as
a mediator and author.
S1 (01:35):
Excellent title. Um, I want to start with, like, a
simple but potentially kind of complicated question. A question that's
big and small. What do you love about painting?
S2 (01:44):
Well, um, I think the love started well. It comes
very easily to me. And I think when I was young,
struggling with dyslexia and, uh, all the other neurodiversities. I
couldn't find much confidence in things. I felt like a
bit of a failure and started off with drawing a
(02:07):
bit of graffiti and then painting, but I think, um,
it gave me a sense of self-worth. And now it's
really my happy place. Um, you know, uh, I know
it kind of saved my life in a lot of ways.
And now I get to travel the world. And I
like yourself. Um, I get to meet the most interesting people. Uh,
(02:29):
you know, uh, last week, uh, Celeste Barber, um, or
the week before hanging out with, uh, Lindsay Fox or
I don't know what's coming in the next week or
I spent the week before at Australia Zoo meeting animals
and zookeepers. It's just the best job.
S1 (02:48):
Yeah, you mentioned that when we met for that story
that the, uh, the art or the portrait is kind
of a means to an end. The end being that
you get to meet someone really interesting and kind of
connect with them.
S2 (03:00):
I don't know which one I enjoy more, actually. Like,
I just it's like, I don't want to say a drug,
but kind of, you know, like it's if it's not happening,
I'm a bit lost.
S1 (03:12):
You grew up in Broadmeadows in Melbourne's north, which for
our listeners outside of Victoria, is a kind of hardscrabble suburb. Um,
tell us a little bit about life there with your
Irish mum and Italian dad and kind of how your,
your family came to be.
S2 (03:29):
Quick one. My parents met here at an immigration camp.
I think originally my dad was at Bonegilla or something
and my mum then at Broadmeadows, they he was in
a band. They met there and they thought, I think
my mum thought Australia. The Birmingham she remembered was exciting
(03:50):
and she felt like she missed it. So she wanted
to go back. Then they realized that it's not that great.
So they moved back here to a not that great suburb.
And yeah, I think it was um, it felt very stressful, like, uh,
there was nothing relaxing about it. It was violence everywhere. Uh,
(04:16):
you know, I think I mentioned you can't park your
bike outside a shop. Someone has to guard it, or
you go down to the local school on a weekend
and to throw a ball, and you just know you're
going to have some kind of fight or altercation. It
just didn't stop.
S1 (04:31):
Yeah. And your home life was a bit chaotic as well.
I mean, it sounds like you were moving constantly from
sort of one housing Commission flat or house to, to another,
all sorts of extended family kind of crashing there.
S2 (04:45):
Well, that was before. So, um, we were renting down
there And it was when my parents broke up. Um,
I think so. My mum would. Kind of suffer and
we would blame her for the breakup. Um, my dad
kind of didn't give her any help at all. No
(05:07):
child support, no school uniforms, nothing. And that's when we
started moving house a lot. So from then it felt like, uh,
you know, like a sense of homelessness in a way, really.
We had no, we knew once we stopped paying the rent,
which happened every time. Only not that my mum didn't
(05:28):
want to. She tried, but, you know, we just couldn't
afford to stay places. So it would be, you know,
I would expect after a couple of months that the
sheriff's come knocking at the door, find out where we are,
and then we overnight we move and then the next place.
And that went on for years. Like, at least it
(05:49):
would have been 20 places, sometimes in other people's houses,
and just all of us piled into a bedroom. Most
of the houses we. I think we got cheap because
they were so shitty. They were being knocked down shortly after.
Then we found a commission house and we stayed there for, um,
(06:09):
you know, the last couple of years I was at home.
S1 (06:12):
Yeah. You were drawing on the walls throughout this childhood, too.
Like you were already figuring out that you had some
skill there with the pen or pencil in hand.
S2 (06:21):
Yeah, I think I figured out that houses were so
shitty they'd be knocked down. But like the gym where
I painted on the wall and they sold it later,
they probably could have done better out of the painting
than the rent.
S1 (06:35):
Um, now, for some kids who come from difficult homes
or difficult upbringings and and life is tricky and tough
on the streets like that school is their haven. School
is like their safe place where they can kind of
retreat from that world. But for you, it was sort
of the opposite in some ways.
S2 (06:55):
Yeah, I think that can go that can kind of
go two ways for people that have have it tough
at home. I think some kids find it at school,
some find it in a sport. Um, I hated school.
You know, I just it I wanted to see my mates, obviously,
(07:16):
but I don't mean to sound Mr. Negative, but every
day at school sucked. Maybe athletics day was okay. Even
art class sucked. It was, you know, it was just
a constant reminder of being what I thought was stupid
or dumb or. Yeah.
S1 (07:35):
And nobody seemed to figure this out. Uh, that's because
y you're you're masking it well, or you're you're finding
a way to kind of get kicked out of class
so that you would avoid assessment. I just it's, it's
amazing to me that you could get moved up through
all of these grades and not really be able to
read or write.
S2 (07:55):
It kind of baffles me. Like maybe, maybe I was
either a fucking amazing actor or it made me feel like, uh,
people didn't care. It's why now I'm so passionate about.
Even though there's more awareness, they're still the same stuff
(08:15):
still happens in schools to kids. I just I find
it weird. I didn't pass one class, not one. I
didn't most of the time. They didn't even give me
a mark. Um, it's not like I was, you know,
look that bad that I had a personal aide or
something they do to kids sometimes. Don't really think much
(08:37):
of that. Or, um, I couldn't copy off the board.
I couldn't I didn't hand in one piece of homework ever. Yeah. So.
And also at home, you know, like if your kid
has never read even a mr. man book, you know, I,
I didn't even know my how to spell my address. So. Yeah,
(09:02):
I find it quite strange. I'm not sure how that happened.
S1 (09:05):
And it it turned dark for you. Quite, quite young
and quite early. Right. I mean, I was writing out
questions and thinking about what I was going to ask
you about today, and this one didn't actually come up.
It just popped up now. But I remember reading partly
in your book, this really heartbreaking sort of scene in
which you kind of write a suicide attempt to write
a suicide note. How old were you then?
S2 (09:28):
Um, I would have been younger than ten. I could
have been eight. Um, and, you know, it's again, it's
whether they could understand the note or not. Like I
sat there with a knife thinking about how I could
do this. I thought about, um, what I haven't done yet.
(09:50):
And do I need to do that first? Should I
wait a little bit to do a couple more things
that I wanted to do? Maybe kiss a girl or something, or,
you know, um, what would my mates think? Would people
be better off? Was I just hard work? I just
felt like a invisible kind of. And I think that's
(10:11):
also why, um, maybe playing up, you know. Well, two
things at school. You you play up, so you're, you're
masking what's really happening home or, or learning and you
play up so you get kicked out of class so
(10:32):
you don't have to read out loud. Like, really like
you can see you go, you're a teacher. You've been
with these kids a while. you go around the classroom
and you know this, you should know this kid can't read,
but you make them stand up. And if they can't read,
repeat after me. Then I think, uh, with a dyslexic, autistic,
(10:56):
you know, ADHD brain, sometimes it, uh, it's something to
do with the syllables breaking up. Uh, and you can't
pronounce words properly. You know, it's free instead of three.
It's pillow, pillow, all these different things, and they make
you say it, and then they make you try and
correct yourself in front of a class. I know it sounds,
you know, like. Yeah, big deal. But for a kid
(11:19):
who already feels they're failing, that's just a, you know,
kick in the face.
S1 (11:24):
Violence is sort of where you went too early. Um, and,
I mean, I don't want to make it sound like
you enjoyed fighting because it doesn't sound like you did
at all. Tell me how how that took shape in
your childhood?
S2 (11:39):
I enjoyed boxing and martial arts. I did enjoy fighting
because again, it felt like somewhere where I was actually
respected or good at something. But I, I got, you know,
abuse wise, not out on the street. I really got
fucking tortured. And, um. It's funny. You think you think
(12:06):
you've passed something. So it's like, you know, it frustrates
me that I can't get through. I talk about the books.
I'm doing it all the time. Tell the story old time.
And I'm like, ah, that's. I'm feeling good. It's not
going to happen. And then it does.
S1 (12:27):
What I was going to say was right. It felt
like some of those fights or acts of violence were
really protective, Detective like I spoke to, you know, a
really good friend of yours. You've been mates with him
since you were 15. And he's like, my first interaction
with Vinnie was. I'm getting bullied by three kids who
(12:47):
want to steal my lunch. And he only met me
that morning, and he comes flying in out of nowhere
doing this flying kick to sort of stand up and go,
he's my mate. I watch too much Spider-Man.
S2 (13:00):
And I thought I was a vigilante. Um, kept my
pants on the inside. But yeah, I felt like if
I there's. I just felt that I think because maybe
I wasn't protected where I should have been, I had
an overwhelming sense of protection. But again, like, that's something
that you think goes away and, you know, I'm still
(13:24):
someone breaks into your house and you're very overprotective or,
you know, you're, uh, you know, your kid gets mistreated as. is.
So if Val had a problem at school, I'd like.
My instinct would say punch him in the face once.
They won't do it again. And I said, no, you
can't do that. Fair enough. Um, or, you know, there's
(13:46):
something with the teacher. I always whether my kid might
be wrong, and I know that I'm doing it, but
I always take their side like it's a saying that
I'm very. Also, I will teach my kids, if, you know,
they can get away with a lot of stuff with me,
but they can't get away with bullying someone or hurting
(14:10):
someone's feelings consciously. I know it happens accidentally, but, um,
I just think when you do that, you got to
kind of take responsibility.
S1 (14:18):
I should also say to for our listeners that, um,
the the past is present in something that Vincent just
said there he was talking about what happens when someone
breaks into your home. And that actually did happen in
the last 12 months or so when a thief entered, um,
in his house and, um, just sort of boldly tried
(14:39):
to walk out the driveway with his Ducati motorbike until, um. Asher.
Asher Keddie, um, Vincent's wife. Uh, yeah. Rang rang the alarm. Uh,
and you came what, like bolting out of bed to
go sort of restrain him or.
S2 (14:56):
Was still half asleep? Um, I put my Adidas pants on.
I look like I must have looked like some. He
broke into a drug dealer's house.
S1 (15:06):
Totally.
S2 (15:07):
Yeah. And I ran downstairs, and I was, because I
wasn't quite sure if they were still in the house.
There was two of them at first, and I looked
out the door. And this guy, he had a helmet
as well. There was. And so they came for that reason,
I have very I believe I have very good instincts
(15:28):
of who's a proper bad guy. And I was right.
Learning his history later on, you know, put his female
partner in a boot of a car and all sorts
of stuff. He's not a good person, I think. I know,
you know, but I'm not a jury. But I think
I felt like I knew this is a proper bad guy.
This is a guy that was in my house, um,
(15:49):
just earlier, where my kids at that time and Lukas,
my size 15 year old, this guy is armed. And
he would have attacked my kid. And fuck, I could have, like,
could have lose your kid.
S1 (16:04):
Yeah.
S2 (16:05):
Um, and I walked out. It's a very strange. I said, hey, mate,
what are you doing? And he looked at me and
just kept going like I was fucking nothing. Um, and,
you know, bigger than me, probably a bit younger, whatever.
And so I walked towards him. I wasn't sure, I
didn't run, I walked towards him and I was like,
(16:26):
I said, don't drop the bike. It's a it belonged
to Ducati. I'm an ambassador, so it wasn't even mine.
But I just. All I could think of is you
were just in my house with my my boys and
my wife, and then he swung at me. He. So
he dropped the bike, turned around and swung at me.
And it's kind of. It's a weird thing. I had dreams, my.
(16:48):
I lived in fear, you know, especially when I was young.
Our house got broken into, our stuff got stolen. I
lived in fear of people coming into my house. I
have dreams about it and just other stuff that happened
as well. When a gang's coming to look for me
when I was young and things, and he swung at
me and I just it was a bit kung fu
(17:09):
movie ish and I ducked, jumped on his back. I
put him in like a chokehold, and then he fell
on top of me backwards. He was a big guy.
And then ash was on the phone to the police
by now, and she's screaming, and then she says he's
got a knife and he's So he's going to try
(17:30):
and stab me. So I jumped on top of him
and then I was whacking him. He's still fighting back.
He wasn't a junkie, but he was on ice. And
when someone's on ice, they have like, you know, their
strength and they just keep going. So every I wanted
to slow down, but every time I slowed down, he
(17:52):
went and came back again. And I think Asha was
worried as well because it's going for so long. The
police were actually amazing and very quick. But you know,
four minutes in a in a street fight is a long,
long time. Yeah, when it's constant action. But it's funny,
I had trained for it my whole life. Um, and yes,
(18:15):
every time I slowed down, he kept coming, kept coming.
So I kept going. Um. And then police arrived and
he was still conscious at that point. And then they
took him outside and he wasn't anymore. And then I
was worried about that. Yeah. Have I done. I had
no choice but to defend myself. But did, um. Could
(18:37):
I have done. I don't know. I just thought, wow,
this is not good.
S1 (18:42):
I've had some amazing stories like that reading through your
your book. Um. Unveiled. Uh, I just couldn't believe all
the tales, one after another on that.
S2 (18:53):
Uh, I think so many people live in fear. Um.
It happens. And please tell me this happens a lot
more than you think. And they just get out on bail,
which he didn't. So they were happy. Um, but the
response from the overwhelming response from all sorts of people
you just wouldn't believe. Very important people, mums, politicians, all
(19:18):
sorts rang me and said, I'm so glad you're okay
and I'm so glad that you were able to defend yourself.
And I don't know what would have happened to me
in that situation. And people are really scared. And I
just think, imagine that, you know, I was beat up
in front of my family. So maybe, you know, trying
(19:38):
to stop him, take my bike, I don't know, but
I couldn't be walked over either. But I think a
lot of people, it's why I reacted like I did,
but I why I don't react like that in a
different situation, like a road rage or car or, you know,
I don't know, just guys, I think I mentioned to
(20:00):
you last night, I don't know if this guy's cat
died or his mom is sick or he just got
divorced or whatever, and he's having a fuck day. I
don't want to beat him up. Yeah, and also, if
someone confronts someone else in the car and bullies them,
that might be enough for that person to tip over
the edge as well. I worry about that stuff like
(20:21):
mental health.
S1 (20:22):
Um. There's an episode of The Simpsons.
S2 (20:34):
I'm sure I would know it.
S1 (20:36):
Where Bart stumbles into a mafia bar and ends up
working there after school, pouring Manhattans for the mob. For you,
this was, um, art imitating life.
S2 (20:46):
It was so close to the To The Simpsons episode.
What was was his name junior in, uh, in, uh,
what did they call him? Something. Yeah. Anyway, they called me.
They gave me my. Everyone has a nickname, you know,
Nick the knife or, you know, spider. Yeah, all these
different nicknames. And I became junior right away, and it
(21:07):
was exactly that. I walk in, I cooked them a pasta,
I bring it to the table, they're having cigars. And, um,
you know, they all took me under my wing, and
I thought, oh, I like gangsters.
S1 (21:20):
There's nothing linear or simple about your biography. I mean,
there's tales involving joyrides and stolen guns and the months
or the year where you ran a marijuana grow house.
S2 (21:30):
Yep. And because of legal, some of them aren't even
even in there.
S1 (21:34):
So we should get to your art, though, given that
that's what brought you to the public eye. So you
had this innate gift for kind of painting and drawing,
but never really had any formal instruction until you went
to RMIT and you had to forge transcripts in order
to get in there. But I want to know what
it was like when you were there at school. Because
I'm imagining it's this simultaneous thing. You're like, loving the
(21:58):
practical study of art, painting every day, learning new methods.
But at the same time, you're like hustling and hiding
and just trying. Trying to hope that people don't discover
that you can't do these art essays.
S2 (22:13):
Um, so I went to uni. Well, I tried to
get into VCA, it got rejected. Then I went. I
tried to get into RMIT. I got rejected as well.
Then a whole year later I got into RMIT. I
went for a couple of months and it's like when
I went back to school by myself in high school
(22:34):
and I thought, um, I thought I could do it.
And I went to RMIT. I started to answer too
long and I thought, oh fuck, I can't do this
because they all they're all clever and I'm still dumb
at this point. I went there thinking this would provide
me with a job. Maybe one day I'm doing a
degree at a university. And then I realised that it's
(22:57):
not like that at all. It's also, you know, painting
different degrees, painting degree, drawing degree, a film degree, uh, printmaking.
It's like an artist can do all of those things.
So I found that odd. And I thought, oh, I
want to do those things as well. Now I won't
learn it. Fuck it. I'll just keep painting portraits and
(23:19):
sports memorabilia and make some money. So I did that,
ended up dealing drugs and other things as well. And
I got back into uni the next year, and then
I was determined to try and just. But again, I
just felt like I was lying my way through. I
desperately wanted to have passed something. So in between that,
(23:44):
although university and leaving school at 13 or 14, I
had all these jobs and I failed every single one. And,
you know, I worked as a chef, couldn't do the class,
worked as a printer. Fucking shit job that was. And
I couldn't pass over, you know, it just one thing
after another. Yeah. And it was. I was back in
(24:05):
that hole.
S1 (24:06):
Being at RMIT. You, in order to get by, ended
up sort of paying other students to, like, write essays
for you. And then I think it was in third year,
somebody you paid them to write an essay for you.
They plagiarized the essay. And so you were found out
and you had this decision to make. Do I tell
the powers that be I can't read or write.
S2 (24:30):
Or do.
S1 (24:30):
I?
S2 (24:30):
Yeah. Well, I thought it was kind of cool that,
you know, I can paint pictures and pay someone. You know,
I've been hanging out with too many dodgy people for
too long. Sure. And shortcut. Shortcuts. Shortcuts. And then. Yeah,
I paid this one guy. Um, I knew he was
a dick, but I figured it out even more so. But,
(24:51):
you know, I'm the one doing the wrong thing. So
he plagiarized an an essay, gave it to me, handed
it in, and it was that moment where, um, tell
them that I'm think I'm dyslexic and can't look it
up at stupid word. Can't look it up. Um, there
was no, you know, phone and internets and things to help,
(25:13):
but so I didn't know what it was. I just
thought I was stupid. I couldn't say I'm stupid. So
I said, ah, I think I'm dyslexic, or I say,
I can't read and write and I paid someone, or
I just say I did it myself and cheated. So
I chose the the one that I wanted to say
my whole life but was scared of. And then it
(25:35):
was I was hoping for. I got different reactions. One
impartial couldn't give a fuck. One I shouldn't say that,
just didn't say much or that's what I felt. Not
probably what she thought. Um, and one said this was
the I still think there's people that are evil and
(25:55):
she's probably eating children or something. Yeah. Anyway, she said, um,
she said, oh, well, if you cheated on that one
and you can't read right, then you've cheated on all
of them. This is my third year, final semester. So
she said, you have to repeat every year of history
before you get your degree. Yeah. And you're a liar.
(26:16):
And then the other guy, I could see the guy
that I didn't necessarily bond with before he was.
S1 (26:25):
This was your third year painting teacher, David Thomas.
S2 (26:28):
Yes, David. Amazing. Thomas and I, he's very academic. He's
very conceptual and philosophical. And I always felt like an
outsider in that, that way. And he. Well, he is philosophical.
And he said, oh, right. Let's try and help you. Like,
(26:48):
if you can show your dyslexic, then I will do
my best to figure this out. Like even that. Again,
some stuff makes me emotional that, you know, I've. I
do luck out with good people in my life when
shit's looking really bad. He was one of them, and
(27:09):
I appreciate it so much. So so then I did
this test, which we'll get on to later. How hard
it is for people to get tested that can't even
look the word up, are afraid, and can't afford to
get a test. So I sold one of my motorbikes,
my motorbike, my means of transport. Had to do this
(27:31):
test cost a fortune. The people that do the test
now have contacted me not too long ago, and we're
going to try and work on hearing what I said.
We're going to try and work on making testing easier
for people. That's something I really want to do. Yeah.
So then I had a test and I felt, okay,
I finally figured out what it was. I'm not not trying.
I was always trying. Um, am I stupid or what
(27:55):
is this thing? And so I figured, okay, that explains
a lot. And I somewhat felt comforted, but I had
no idea of the benefits of it. And I also
was thinking, I can't become a fireman, I can't become
a police officer or a, you know, all these different things,
most of which I didn't want to do anyway, but
(28:16):
it just makes you feel, you know, like I'm getting
I'm going to go nowhere.
S1 (28:20):
But you had some support from our RMIT through David.
They were they were good. They helped you um, sort
of work with a disability liaison.
S2 (28:29):
And that's a hard thing to disability liaison, like it's
a special class at school again. So that was a
bit of a, um, fucking back.
S1 (28:37):
Right. But you got through. You got your bachelor's. You
also got your master's in fine art. You got an
artist residency after that, then a solo show at Dianne
Tanzer Gallery in Fitzroy. And your work at that time
was quite figurative in nature. So I just wondered, how
was it that you sort of slid into the niche
of portraiture? Was that like pretty soon after you had
(28:59):
had that residency and, and kind of emerged or.
S2 (29:02):
I was doing, I guess I was doing portraiture when
I was in primary school. Yeah, like every day I
would start off with caricatures and mates and sometimes teachers.
I could paint or I could draw very accurately without
any teaching. So it was all. But then it kind
of again, it was that space where I draw the
(29:26):
science teacher, and he didn't make me do science any more.
I could just draw pictures. It was a it was
like this magical way out of things. I think of
like an animation with a kid and he can draw
his way out of situations. It was like that.
S1 (29:40):
Yeah. Now, in many ways, you're sort of famous for
doing portraits of famous people. And it wasn't long before
you painted probably the most famous person, um, ever in
in your orbit. That's Heath ledger. How did that come
to be?
S2 (29:55):
I had a very good mate. And for Jones, he's
a hip hop singer. 1200 techniques. You probably heard it
growing up. Um, and we lived together for some time.
We went everywhere together. He's from wa. Went to primary
school and high school with Heath, and they have this
clique of people that are very creative and ambitious. They're
(30:18):
all from WA. They all escaped for a few years
to try and do special stuff. Heath is one of them.
So he would come and hang out at our house
or we'd, you know, see him whenever he was in Melbourne.
But it was always kind of in a group setting,
and it wasn't really like we already had a strong connection.
(30:39):
We just hadn't had, you know, the time alone to
like we were, you know, you're in a group and
you make passing comments and conversations and you're like, oh
fuck yeah, I agree. Why isn't that happening? And like,
we're very passionate about similar things. And we wanted to
do the portrait for years and it didn't happen. Didn't happen.
(30:59):
He was there, I was there. He also wasn't ready,
and he felt he was very spiritual and I didn't
realize how spiritual. And he felt like having his portrait
done was like capturing his soul in a way. Took
it really seriously. I went to see him that Christmas
(31:19):
just so happened he was in Perth and I went
to Perth and we had this like the most amazing
weekend of just letting every, every kind of thought out
and boundaries gone about what we can talk about and
(31:41):
like really everything, you know, stuff you can't, you hide
and you can't share and relationships and his relationship. And
he'd broken up with his girlfriend. He couldn't see his kid.
It was killing him. He was starved himself for that role.
He's invested so much in Batman. He wasn't drinking. He
(32:04):
was thinking about the future a lot, but very vulnerable.
Like he was thinking about his friends that he had
for a long time. Are were they using me? Are
they using me? Are they my friends? New friends? Knowing
for someone he is now, he'll never be able to
do that again. Make original friends and question questioning old friends.
He's questioning that everyone he meets wants something and eventually
(32:29):
they'll ask. And not completely. It's not like he was cynical,
like believed in no one. He wanted to believe. And
it was. It was hurting him that he couldn't or
it wasn't working.
S1 (32:40):
And you had this scene unfold where he sort of
woke up one morning and went out onto the lawn.
S2 (32:48):
Yeah, I arrived, we had a big late night. Well,
he wasn't drinking, so he was fresh in the morning.
I wasn't. I arrived at his house about seven in
the morning and because we were so excited to do it,
we got up and I walked in and he said
nothing to me. He just grabbed as we walked through
and I followed him. Uh, I just had to like
(33:09):
it was like it was already in a zone and
didn't even want to talk. He just grabbed the chair
and I followed him. He sat it down and sat
on it. He was in his pajama pants with no
shoes and no t shirt on, and he sat there
without saying what we're doing. And so I figured it
out and grabbed my camera, and he sat in the chair, um,
(33:33):
and he just quietly, for an awkwardly long time, he
just stared like he's just sitting there, breathing until the
point where he just went to another place and I thought,
oh fuck, he's lost it. I'll just take some photos.
And even though he's Blank as can be. He didn't move.
(33:58):
I'm like, this is weird, but interesting. And he got
out of the chair and he walked around. Um, I
sat in front of himself, and he where? It was like,
he's still there. Yeah. This heath stayed and one got
up and walked around and he he, you know, on
one knee and he looked himself in the eyes and
(34:19):
again really long time. This is like, you know, I
wish I filmed it the how powerful it was like really.
You know, you look in the mirror and you're like,
who the fuck am I? What is what is all this?
I could, as he was doing it without words, I
felt like I was watching, hearing all the dialogue of
(34:41):
things we spoke about. Didn't look at me like I
wasn't there. Then he got up, walked to one side
and he started screaming, but not a normal scream. He
was screaming. It was a noise I hadn't heard, you know,
goosebumps thinking about it. Um, fear spit coming out of
his mouth in his face. He's there and he's in
his face and angry at the veins popping out. Then
(35:03):
he stopped and just walked around, relaxed, came to the
other side. He laughed, whispered in his ear so I
couldn't hear it. And he's telling himself stuff like he's
actually telling himself stuff. And this went on for like,
it felt like a long time. It's probably ten minutes.
And then I was like, fuck, how am I going
(35:25):
to make this into a painting? Um, I always work
with amazing people. This was true performance about his life.
S1 (35:34):
It's amazing. What's life like for you now, Vincent? Because
it has to be said that your dyslexia and dyscalculia
is just kind of the beginning of your processing issues.
You've mentioned before to me how you probably can't tell
left from right. You don't really know the sequence of
the four seasons or rattling off the months of the year.
S2 (35:54):
I don't even know what month it is.
S1 (35:55):
Now there you go. Like you miss appointments, lose keys, wallets.
S2 (35:59):
It sounds.
S1 (36:00):
Very difficult. And it sounds like Asher must be a saint.
S2 (36:03):
No, she's lucky, I tell her every day. Um. I
feel like I just learned it's just normal for me.
But I think if it happens to someone else or
someone's new in my life. Like, the gallery manager actually
shares a dyslexic daughter. But people new in your life,
they're like, how the fuck do you live like this?
I get lost coming here. I get, you know, I,
(36:26):
I painted all night last night because I forgot I
was coming. I knew and I'd been looking forward to it,
but I forgot. And then I stayed up till four.
And you just. And it's not just that. It's general memory.
It's friends and people. I can't remember anyone's name.
S1 (36:41):
It's have trouble with faces sometimes too.
S2 (36:43):
Completely with faces. It happens to me so often out
of context. But then once I'm like, oh fuck yes,
it's you. I can remember every part of our conversation
and I really care about the person and I. It's
so embarrassing and I feel like I. It makes you
feel like you let people down a lot. So I
try and just tell myself about all the good stuff
(37:05):
as well, you know, so many good things. And that's why,
you know, I desperately want to get testing. Like, you know,
there's a dental van and the AI van, all those things.
Ears hearing. I found out my son had an eye
problem because of the van. I want a van to
go into schools. One to teach all the other kids that, um,
(37:29):
some of your favorite people that inspire you have these
things like Steven Spielberg, Richard Branson, the 100m sprinter that
won the gold medal, all these musicians, all sorts. And
then also test the kids in, you know, elite schools.
Often the parents are embarrassed and the kids are, you know,
they get them tutors, which doesn't work. Um, and in
(37:53):
lower demographic schools, kids can't afford to get tested. You know,
it could be a single mum. She doesn't even know
because she's so busy treading water. Um, and then the
testing is expensive. And then you also need, you know,
I'd like to have somewhere where they can follow on,
get looked after, and maybe have a bit of camaraderie with, uh,
(38:16):
or mentor with someone that's successful and has it.
S1 (38:21):
What about another goal in your life? It was a great,
great quote from the story you want to Jamie Oliver,
the art world.
S2 (38:27):
Yeah. Um, so, you know, I feel like, um, I
might be able to start to get there as well.
So if you look again, I'm talking about shit's things.
So I don't remember much. But I do remember in
youth prisons, you know, there's a big, big percentage of
those kids that have all these neurodiversities or a broken home,
(38:48):
all those different things, and some of them are sport
gets some kids out. Music does. There's a lot of
kids that are good at art and they're creative and
it's no option for them. It doesn't seem appealing. So
if I can make and also for adults, you know,
and I always use the example if I was unless
(39:10):
you're a big art fan, if you ask anyone to
name five artists, they can't. So all Blackman, Olson, Picasso,
all those blue chip kind of people like it's like
it's the best job.
S1 (39:22):
Probably dead guys, right?
S2 (39:23):
Like, you could.
S1 (39:24):
Name most people. Couldn't name five Australian contemporary artists.
S2 (39:28):
Right now I have to watch my back to, um. Yeah.
So it's a weird thing, like, how do you anyway,
I want to do that so kids can not be
embarrassed of having, um, some commerciality or a lot. You know,
some kids make art and they want to be a
millionaire like other kids. Go for it. Do whatever you like.
(39:48):
Doesn't take away your integrity. Just. They're just ambitious.
S1 (39:52):
When I wrote the first profile piece that I did
of you because we met quite a few years.
S2 (39:58):
Ago, 11, ten, ten, 11.
S1 (40:00):
Years, the headline of that story was portrait of the
artist as a Young Man. Now, now, now, we're both
in our late 40s. Um, you seem very young at heart, though.
And but there is one wonderful kind of middle aged
aspect of your life that I enjoy. And I came
along to see Fight Club. Tell it. Tell us a
(40:20):
little bit about Fight Club, what you do and what
you get from it.
S2 (40:23):
I tell you, like I said, having good people, uh,
you know, I had some shit people when I was young.
I have the most amazing friends. Just not just Fight Club,
but fight club. Is it changed? And I don't want
to say it's me. It's the whole group. It changes
lives and changes people. and I've watched people that didn't
(40:44):
know each other and wouldn't ever have met become great friends.
But there is, you know, plastic surgeons, entrepreneurs, music business politicians,
big TV producers. My mates from soccer, the dads that
we've all become amazing friends. And when you're there and
(41:05):
you wouldn't believe the people, the success, but how humble
and supportive. They're a bunch of middle aged, uncoordinated, successful
people that I get to yell at. And, um, I
wish I, you know, I wish everyone could have that.
You know, you're not catching up in a pub and
(41:26):
everyone's there, but we're still laughing just as much.
S1 (41:29):
Um, so for the listeners, this is twice a week,
early mornings, Tuesday and Thursday in Vincent's studio. So there's
this backdrop of sketches and half done paintings and finished
paintings all over the walls, and then a bunch of
sweaty dudes kind of sparring and hitting speedballs.
S2 (41:49):
Yeah, it's, uh, the energy is amazing. You know, we
do play Rocky soundtracks sometimes.
S1 (41:57):
Now, the other paintings that I noticed when I was
in there watching that, this last question for you, um,
were abstract ones, which is a bit of a departure
for you. It's going somewhere new. Um, tell us a
little bit about them. They're sort of, uh, if I
had to describe them to readers, they're these sort of
script like curls and swirls over pastel backgrounds. At least
(42:20):
one series that I saw. Yeah.
S2 (42:22):
So back to when I was a kid trying to
write that note, for example, I or a copy of
the board. I had no idea what I was writing
or if it made sense. I was writing down a story.
I wanted to write stories, and I looked at it.
It made no sense to anyone, but it looked pretty good.
I did fake cursive writing. And so I said, oh,
I'll just make that double line and I'll put a
(42:44):
shadow on it. And it became graffiti looking in the beginning,
and then it became patterns, and it became really therapeutic
for me to paint something that doesn't have to be anything.
But I was really embarrassed to show the work, because
when I was at uni, I was known for this
figurative stuff and I love abstract painting. I just didn't
(43:04):
know how to almost defend myself about why I didn't
know about art movements. Everything had to be referenced to something,
and I also love it because it shows people well.
One I like all art. I don't expect anyone to
do what I do. Um, and I want kids to
know that you can, you know, kids get put off,
use the example. Their dog looks like a horse. And
(43:27):
I like dog horses, you know, like anything. Just do
whatever you like. But for me, it's, you know, it's
just fun.
S1 (43:36):
I love the Dog Haus. Thanks so much for coming in, Vincent.
It was great to catch up again.
S2 (43:41):
Um, thanks. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. And,
you know, for kids that, uh, want to become artists,
you can have an incredible life.
S1 (43:52):
That was a Australian portrait artist Vincent Fantauzzo on the
latest Good weekend talks. If you enjoyed this episode, please
remember to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get your
podcasts and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations. Good
Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney Morning
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support independent journalism. Search, subscribe Sydney Morning Herald or The Age?
(44:17):
This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced by Konrad
Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery, with technical assistance from
Cormac Lally. Tammy Mills is our executive producer, Tom McKendrick
is head of audio and Greg Callahan is the acting
editor of Good Weekend.
Hi, I'm Konrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald
and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine
for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from
sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week,
you can download new episodes in which top journalists from
across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive
(00:29):
stories of the day. In this episode, we talk to
Vincent Fantauzzo. Fantuzzo, of course, is the Melbourne born portrait
artist famous for hyper realistic renderings of a long list
of prominent people. He's painted movie stars like Hugh Jackman,
underworld figures like Mick Gatto, politicians like Julia Gillard, athletes
(00:50):
like Oscar Piastri and icons like Michael Gudinski. I profiled
Vincent for Good Weekend last month. To learn more about
not just his prize winning works, but Vincent's rough and
tumble beginnings, which included more than mere brushes with violence
and crime, and which stem in some ways from a
dysfunctional early life and a learning disability he kept hidden.
(01:12):
Listeners should be advised that this episode deals with suicide
and depression. If you are seeking help, please contact lifeline
on one three 1114. But for now, it's my pleasure
to have Vincent in the studio for a chat about
his turbulent and remarkable life so far. Welcome, Vincent.
S2 (01:29):
Thanks, Conrad. I think Mick Gatto refers to himself as
a mediator and author.
S1 (01:35):
Excellent title. Um, I want to start with, like, a
simple but potentially kind of complicated question. A question that's
big and small. What do you love about painting?
S2 (01:44):
Well, um, I think the love started well. It comes
very easily to me. And I think when I was young,
struggling with dyslexia and, uh, all the other neurodiversities. I
couldn't find much confidence in things. I felt like a
bit of a failure and started off with drawing a
(02:07):
bit of graffiti and then painting, but I think, um,
it gave me a sense of self-worth. And now it's
really my happy place. Um, you know, uh, I know
it kind of saved my life in a lot of ways.
And now I get to travel the world. And I
like yourself. Um, I get to meet the most interesting people. Uh,
(02:29):
you know, uh, last week, uh, Celeste Barber, um, or
the week before hanging out with, uh, Lindsay Fox or
I don't know what's coming in the next week or
I spent the week before at Australia Zoo meeting animals
and zookeepers. It's just the best job.
S1 (02:48):
Yeah, you mentioned that when we met for that story
that the, uh, the art or the portrait is kind
of a means to an end. The end being that
you get to meet someone really interesting and kind of
connect with them.
S2 (03:00):
I don't know which one I enjoy more, actually. Like,
I just it's like, I don't want to say a drug,
but kind of, you know, like it's if it's not happening,
I'm a bit lost.
S1 (03:12):
You grew up in Broadmeadows in Melbourne's north, which for
our listeners outside of Victoria, is a kind of hardscrabble suburb. Um,
tell us a little bit about life there with your
Irish mum and Italian dad and kind of how your,
your family came to be.
S2 (03:29):
Quick one. My parents met here at an immigration camp.
I think originally my dad was at Bonegilla or something
and my mum then at Broadmeadows, they he was in
a band. They met there and they thought, I think
my mum thought Australia. The Birmingham she remembered was exciting
(03:50):
and she felt like she missed it. So she wanted
to go back. Then they realized that it's not that great.
So they moved back here to a not that great suburb.
And yeah, I think it was um, it felt very stressful, like, uh,
there was nothing relaxing about it. It was violence everywhere. Uh,
(04:16):
you know, I think I mentioned you can't park your
bike outside a shop. Someone has to guard it, or
you go down to the local school on a weekend
and to throw a ball, and you just know you're
going to have some kind of fight or altercation. It
just didn't stop.
S1 (04:31):
Yeah. And your home life was a bit chaotic as well.
I mean, it sounds like you were moving constantly from
sort of one housing Commission flat or house to, to another,
all sorts of extended family kind of crashing there.
S2 (04:45):
Well, that was before. So, um, we were renting down
there And it was when my parents broke up. Um,
I think so. My mum would. Kind of suffer and
we would blame her for the breakup. Um, my dad
kind of didn't give her any help at all. No
(05:07):
child support, no school uniforms, nothing. And that's when we
started moving house a lot. So from then it felt like, uh,
you know, like a sense of homelessness in a way, really.
We had no, we knew once we stopped paying the rent,
which happened every time. Only not that my mum didn't
(05:28):
want to. She tried, but, you know, we just couldn't
afford to stay places. So it would be, you know,
I would expect after a couple of months that the
sheriff's come knocking at the door, find out where we are,
and then we overnight we move and then the next place.
And that went on for years. Like, at least it
(05:49):
would have been 20 places, sometimes in other people's houses,
and just all of us piled into a bedroom. Most
of the houses we. I think we got cheap because
they were so shitty. They were being knocked down shortly after.
Then we found a commission house and we stayed there for, um,
(06:09):
you know, the last couple of years I was at home.
S1 (06:12):
Yeah. You were drawing on the walls throughout this childhood, too.
Like you were already figuring out that you had some
skill there with the pen or pencil in hand.
S2 (06:21):
Yeah, I think I figured out that houses were so
shitty they'd be knocked down. But like the gym where
I painted on the wall and they sold it later,
they probably could have done better out of the painting
than the rent.
S1 (06:35):
Um, now, for some kids who come from difficult homes
or difficult upbringings and and life is tricky and tough
on the streets like that school is their haven. School
is like their safe place where they can kind of
retreat from that world. But for you, it was sort
of the opposite in some ways.
S2 (06:55):
Yeah, I think that can go that can kind of
go two ways for people that have have it tough
at home. I think some kids find it at school,
some find it in a sport. Um, I hated school.
You know, I just it I wanted to see my mates, obviously,
(07:16):
but I don't mean to sound Mr. Negative, but every
day at school sucked. Maybe athletics day was okay. Even
art class sucked. It was, you know, it was just
a constant reminder of being what I thought was stupid
or dumb or. Yeah.
S1 (07:35):
And nobody seemed to figure this out. Uh, that's because
y you're you're masking it well, or you're you're finding
a way to kind of get kicked out of class
so that you would avoid assessment. I just it's, it's
amazing to me that you could get moved up through
all of these grades and not really be able to
read or write.
S2 (07:55):
It kind of baffles me. Like maybe, maybe I was
either a fucking amazing actor or it made me feel like, uh,
people didn't care. It's why now I'm so passionate about.
Even though there's more awareness, they're still the same stuff
(08:15):
still happens in schools to kids. I just I find
it weird. I didn't pass one class, not one. I
didn't most of the time. They didn't even give me
a mark. Um, it's not like I was, you know,
look that bad that I had a personal aide or
something they do to kids sometimes. Don't really think much
(08:37):
of that. Or, um, I couldn't copy off the board.
I couldn't I didn't hand in one piece of homework ever. Yeah. So.
And also at home, you know, like if your kid
has never read even a mr. man book, you know, I,
I didn't even know my how to spell my address. So. Yeah,
(09:02):
I find it quite strange. I'm not sure how that happened.
S1 (09:05):
And it it turned dark for you. Quite, quite young
and quite early. Right. I mean, I was writing out
questions and thinking about what I was going to ask
you about today, and this one didn't actually come up.
It just popped up now. But I remember reading partly
in your book, this really heartbreaking sort of scene in
which you kind of write a suicide attempt to write
a suicide note. How old were you then?
S2 (09:28):
Um, I would have been younger than ten. I could
have been eight. Um, and, you know, it's again, it's
whether they could understand the note or not. Like I
sat there with a knife thinking about how I could
do this. I thought about, um, what I haven't done yet.
(09:50):
And do I need to do that first? Should I
wait a little bit to do a couple more things
that I wanted to do? Maybe kiss a girl or something, or,
you know, um, what would my mates think? Would people
be better off? Was I just hard work? I just
felt like a invisible kind of. And I think that's
(10:11):
also why, um, maybe playing up, you know. Well, two
things at school. You you play up, so you're, you're
masking what's really happening home or, or learning and you
play up so you get kicked out of class so
(10:32):
you don't have to read out loud. Like, really like
you can see you go, you're a teacher. You've been
with these kids a while. you go around the classroom
and you know this, you should know this kid can't read,
but you make them stand up. And if they can't read,
repeat after me. Then I think, uh, with a dyslexic, autistic,
(10:56):
you know, ADHD brain, sometimes it, uh, it's something to
do with the syllables breaking up. Uh, and you can't
pronounce words properly. You know, it's free instead of three.
It's pillow, pillow, all these different things, and they make
you say it, and then they make you try and
correct yourself in front of a class. I know it sounds,
you know, like. Yeah, big deal. But for a kid
(11:19):
who already feels they're failing, that's just a, you know,
kick in the face.
S1 (11:24):
Violence is sort of where you went too early. Um, and,
I mean, I don't want to make it sound like
you enjoyed fighting because it doesn't sound like you did
at all. Tell me how how that took shape in
your childhood?
S2 (11:39):
I enjoyed boxing and martial arts. I did enjoy fighting
because again, it felt like somewhere where I was actually
respected or good at something. But I, I got, you know,
abuse wise, not out on the street. I really got
fucking tortured. And, um. It's funny. You think you think
(12:06):
you've passed something. So it's like, you know, it frustrates
me that I can't get through. I talk about the books.
I'm doing it all the time. Tell the story old time.
And I'm like, ah, that's. I'm feeling good. It's not
going to happen. And then it does.
S1 (12:27):
What I was going to say was right. It felt
like some of those fights or acts of violence were
really protective, Detective like I spoke to, you know, a
really good friend of yours. You've been mates with him
since you were 15. And he's like, my first interaction
with Vinnie was. I'm getting bullied by three kids who
(12:47):
want to steal my lunch. And he only met me
that morning, and he comes flying in out of nowhere
doing this flying kick to sort of stand up and go,
he's my mate. I watch too much Spider-Man.
S2 (13:00):
And I thought I was a vigilante. Um, kept my
pants on the inside. But yeah, I felt like if
I there's. I just felt that I think because maybe
I wasn't protected where I should have been, I had
an overwhelming sense of protection. But again, like, that's something
that you think goes away and, you know, I'm still
(13:24):
someone breaks into your house and you're very overprotective or,
you know, you're, uh, you know, your kid gets mistreated as. is.
So if Val had a problem at school, I'd like.
My instinct would say punch him in the face once.
They won't do it again. And I said, no, you
can't do that. Fair enough. Um, or, you know, there's
(13:46):
something with the teacher. I always whether my kid might
be wrong, and I know that I'm doing it, but
I always take their side like it's a saying that
I'm very. Also, I will teach my kids, if, you know,
they can get away with a lot of stuff with me,
but they can't get away with bullying someone or hurting
(14:10):
someone's feelings consciously. I know it happens accidentally, but, um,
I just think when you do that, you got to
kind of take responsibility.
S1 (14:18):
I should also say to for our listeners that, um,
the the past is present in something that Vincent just
said there he was talking about what happens when someone
breaks into your home. And that actually did happen in
the last 12 months or so when a thief entered, um,
in his house and, um, just sort of boldly tried
(14:39):
to walk out the driveway with his Ducati motorbike until, um. Asher.
Asher Keddie, um, Vincent's wife. Uh, yeah. Rang rang the alarm. Uh,
and you came what, like bolting out of bed to
go sort of restrain him or.
S2 (14:56):
Was still half asleep? Um, I put my Adidas pants on.
I look like I must have looked like some. He
broke into a drug dealer's house.
S1 (15:06):
Totally.
S2 (15:07):
Yeah. And I ran downstairs, and I was, because I
wasn't quite sure if they were still in the house.
There was two of them at first, and I looked
out the door. And this guy, he had a helmet
as well. There was. And so they came for that reason,
I have very I believe I have very good instincts
(15:28):
of who's a proper bad guy. And I was right.
Learning his history later on, you know, put his female
partner in a boot of a car and all sorts
of stuff. He's not a good person, I think. I know,
you know, but I'm not a jury. But I think
I felt like I knew this is a proper bad guy.
This is a guy that was in my house, um,
(15:49):
just earlier, where my kids at that time and Lukas,
my size 15 year old, this guy is armed. And
he would have attacked my kid. And fuck, I could have, like,
could have lose your kid.
S1 (16:04):
Yeah.
S2 (16:05):
Um, and I walked out. It's a very strange. I said, hey, mate,
what are you doing? And he looked at me and
just kept going like I was fucking nothing. Um, and,
you know, bigger than me, probably a bit younger, whatever.
And so I walked towards him. I wasn't sure, I
didn't run, I walked towards him and I was like,
(16:26):
I said, don't drop the bike. It's a it belonged
to Ducati. I'm an ambassador, so it wasn't even mine.
But I just. All I could think of is you
were just in my house with my my boys and
my wife, and then he swung at me. He. So
he dropped the bike, turned around and swung at me.
And it's kind of. It's a weird thing. I had dreams, my.
(16:48):
I lived in fear, you know, especially when I was young.
Our house got broken into, our stuff got stolen. I
lived in fear of people coming into my house. I
have dreams about it and just other stuff that happened
as well. When a gang's coming to look for me
when I was young and things, and he swung at
me and I just it was a bit kung fu
(17:09):
movie ish and I ducked, jumped on his back. I
put him in like a chokehold, and then he fell
on top of me backwards. He was a big guy.
And then ash was on the phone to the police
by now, and she's screaming, and then she says he's
got a knife and he's So he's going to try
(17:30):
and stab me. So I jumped on top of him
and then I was whacking him. He's still fighting back.
He wasn't a junkie, but he was on ice. And
when someone's on ice, they have like, you know, their
strength and they just keep going. So every I wanted
to slow down, but every time I slowed down, he
(17:52):
went and came back again. And I think Asha was
worried as well because it's going for so long. The
police were actually amazing and very quick. But you know,
four minutes in a in a street fight is a long,
long time. Yeah, when it's constant action. But it's funny,
I had trained for it my whole life. Um, and yes,
(18:15):
every time I slowed down, he kept coming, kept coming.
So I kept going. Um. And then police arrived and
he was still conscious at that point. And then they
took him outside and he wasn't anymore. And then I
was worried about that. Yeah. Have I done. I had
no choice but to defend myself. But did, um. Could
(18:37):
I have done. I don't know. I just thought, wow,
this is not good.
S1 (18:42):
I've had some amazing stories like that reading through your
your book. Um. Unveiled. Uh, I just couldn't believe all
the tales, one after another on that.
S2 (18:53):
Uh, I think so many people live in fear. Um.
It happens. And please tell me this happens a lot
more than you think. And they just get out on bail,
which he didn't. So they were happy. Um, but the
response from the overwhelming response from all sorts of people
you just wouldn't believe. Very important people, mums, politicians, all
(19:18):
sorts rang me and said, I'm so glad you're okay
and I'm so glad that you were able to defend yourself.
And I don't know what would have happened to me
in that situation. And people are really scared. And I
just think, imagine that, you know, I was beat up
in front of my family. So maybe, you know, trying
(19:38):
to stop him, take my bike, I don't know, but
I couldn't be walked over either. But I think a
lot of people, it's why I reacted like I did,
but I why I don't react like that in a
different situation, like a road rage or car or, you know,
I don't know, just guys, I think I mentioned to
(20:00):
you last night, I don't know if this guy's cat
died or his mom is sick or he just got
divorced or whatever, and he's having a fuck day. I
don't want to beat him up. Yeah, and also, if
someone confronts someone else in the car and bullies them,
that might be enough for that person to tip over
the edge as well. I worry about that stuff like
(20:21):
mental health.
S1 (20:22):
Um. There's an episode of The Simpsons.
S2 (20:34):
I'm sure I would know it.
S1 (20:36):
Where Bart stumbles into a mafia bar and ends up
working there after school, pouring Manhattans for the mob. For you,
this was, um, art imitating life.
S2 (20:46):
It was so close to the To The Simpsons episode.
What was was his name junior in, uh, in, uh,
what did they call him? Something. Yeah. Anyway, they called me.
They gave me my. Everyone has a nickname, you know,
Nick the knife or, you know, spider. Yeah, all these
different nicknames. And I became junior right away, and it
(21:07):
was exactly that. I walk in, I cooked them a pasta,
I bring it to the table, they're having cigars. And, um,
you know, they all took me under my wing, and
I thought, oh, I like gangsters.
S1 (21:20):
There's nothing linear or simple about your biography. I mean,
there's tales involving joyrides and stolen guns and the months
or the year where you ran a marijuana grow house.
S2 (21:30):
Yep. And because of legal, some of them aren't even
even in there.
S1 (21:34):
So we should get to your art, though, given that
that's what brought you to the public eye. So you
had this innate gift for kind of painting and drawing,
but never really had any formal instruction until you went
to RMIT and you had to forge transcripts in order
to get in there. But I want to know what
it was like when you were there at school. Because
I'm imagining it's this simultaneous thing. You're like, loving the
(21:58):
practical study of art, painting every day, learning new methods.
But at the same time, you're like hustling and hiding
and just trying. Trying to hope that people don't discover
that you can't do these art essays.
S2 (22:13):
Um, so I went to uni. Well, I tried to
get into VCA, it got rejected. Then I went. I
tried to get into RMIT. I got rejected as well.
Then a whole year later I got into RMIT. I
went for a couple of months and it's like when
I went back to school by myself in high school
(22:34):
and I thought, um, I thought I could do it.
And I went to RMIT. I started to answer too
long and I thought, oh fuck, I can't do this
because they all they're all clever and I'm still dumb
at this point. I went there thinking this would provide
me with a job. Maybe one day I'm doing a
degree at a university. And then I realised that it's
(22:57):
not like that at all. It's also, you know, painting
different degrees, painting degree, drawing degree, a film degree, uh, printmaking.
It's like an artist can do all of those things.
So I found that odd. And I thought, oh, I
want to do those things as well. Now I won't
learn it. Fuck it. I'll just keep painting portraits and
(23:19):
sports memorabilia and make some money. So I did that,
ended up dealing drugs and other things as well. And
I got back into uni the next year, and then
I was determined to try and just. But again, I
just felt like I was lying my way through. I
desperately wanted to have passed something. So in between that,
(23:44):
although university and leaving school at 13 or 14, I
had all these jobs and I failed every single one. And,
you know, I worked as a chef, couldn't do the class,
worked as a printer. Fucking shit job that was. And
I couldn't pass over, you know, it just one thing
after another. Yeah. And it was. I was back in
(24:05):
that hole.
S1 (24:06):
Being at RMIT. You, in order to get by, ended
up sort of paying other students to, like, write essays
for you. And then I think it was in third year,
somebody you paid them to write an essay for you.
They plagiarized the essay. And so you were found out
and you had this decision to make. Do I tell
the powers that be I can't read or write.
S2 (24:30):
Or do.
S1 (24:30):
I?
S2 (24:30):
Yeah. Well, I thought it was kind of cool that,
you know, I can paint pictures and pay someone. You know,
I've been hanging out with too many dodgy people for
too long. Sure. And shortcut. Shortcuts. Shortcuts. And then. Yeah,
I paid this one guy. Um, I knew he was
a dick, but I figured it out even more so. But,
(24:51):
you know, I'm the one doing the wrong thing. So
he plagiarized an an essay, gave it to me, handed
it in, and it was that moment where, um, tell
them that I'm think I'm dyslexic and can't look it
up at stupid word. Can't look it up. Um, there
was no, you know, phone and internets and things to help,
(25:13):
but so I didn't know what it was. I just
thought I was stupid. I couldn't say I'm stupid. So
I said, ah, I think I'm dyslexic, or I say,
I can't read and write and I paid someone, or
I just say I did it myself and cheated. So
I chose the the one that I wanted to say
my whole life but was scared of. And then it
(25:35):
was I was hoping for. I got different reactions. One
impartial couldn't give a fuck. One I shouldn't say that,
just didn't say much or that's what I felt. Not
probably what she thought. Um, and one said this was
the I still think there's people that are evil and
(25:55):
she's probably eating children or something. Yeah. Anyway, she said, um,
she said, oh, well, if you cheated on that one
and you can't read right, then you've cheated on all
of them. This is my third year, final semester. So
she said, you have to repeat every year of history
before you get your degree. Yeah. And you're a liar.
(26:16):
And then the other guy, I could see the guy
that I didn't necessarily bond with before he was.
S1 (26:25):
This was your third year painting teacher, David Thomas.
S2 (26:28):
Yes, David. Amazing. Thomas and I, he's very academic. He's
very conceptual and philosophical. And I always felt like an
outsider in that, that way. And he. Well, he is philosophical.
And he said, oh, right. Let's try and help you. Like,
(26:48):
if you can show your dyslexic, then I will do
my best to figure this out. Like even that. Again,
some stuff makes me emotional that, you know, I've. I
do luck out with good people in my life when
shit's looking really bad. He was one of them, and
(27:09):
I appreciate it so much. So so then I did
this test, which we'll get on to later. How hard
it is for people to get tested that can't even
look the word up, are afraid, and can't afford to
get a test. So I sold one of my motorbikes,
my motorbike, my means of transport. Had to do this
(27:31):
test cost a fortune. The people that do the test
now have contacted me not too long ago, and we're
going to try and work on hearing what I said.
We're going to try and work on making testing easier
for people. That's something I really want to do. Yeah.
So then I had a test and I felt, okay,
I finally figured out what it was. I'm not not trying.
I was always trying. Um, am I stupid or what
(27:55):
is this thing? And so I figured, okay, that explains
a lot. And I somewhat felt comforted, but I had
no idea of the benefits of it. And I also
was thinking, I can't become a fireman, I can't become
a police officer or a, you know, all these different things,
most of which I didn't want to do anyway, but
(28:16):
it just makes you feel, you know, like I'm getting
I'm going to go nowhere.
S1 (28:20):
But you had some support from our RMIT through David.
They were they were good. They helped you um, sort
of work with a disability liaison.
S2 (28:29):
And that's a hard thing to disability liaison, like it's
a special class at school again. So that was a
bit of a, um, fucking back.
S1 (28:37):
Right. But you got through. You got your bachelor's. You
also got your master's in fine art. You got an
artist residency after that, then a solo show at Dianne
Tanzer Gallery in Fitzroy. And your work at that time
was quite figurative in nature. So I just wondered, how
was it that you sort of slid into the niche
of portraiture? Was that like pretty soon after you had
(28:59):
had that residency and, and kind of emerged or.
S2 (29:02):
I was doing, I guess I was doing portraiture when
I was in primary school. Yeah, like every day I
would start off with caricatures and mates and sometimes teachers.
I could paint or I could draw very accurately without
any teaching. So it was all. But then it kind
of again, it was that space where I draw the
(29:26):
science teacher, and he didn't make me do science any more.
I could just draw pictures. It was a it was
like this magical way out of things. I think of
like an animation with a kid and he can draw
his way out of situations. It was like that.
S1 (29:40):
Yeah. Now, in many ways, you're sort of famous for
doing portraits of famous people. And it wasn't long before
you painted probably the most famous person, um, ever in
in your orbit. That's Heath ledger. How did that come
to be?
S2 (29:55):
I had a very good mate. And for Jones, he's
a hip hop singer. 1200 techniques. You probably heard it
growing up. Um, and we lived together for some time.
We went everywhere together. He's from wa. Went to primary
school and high school with Heath, and they have this
clique of people that are very creative and ambitious. They're
(30:18):
all from WA. They all escaped for a few years
to try and do special stuff. Heath is one of them.
So he would come and hang out at our house
or we'd, you know, see him whenever he was in Melbourne.
But it was always kind of in a group setting,
and it wasn't really like we already had a strong connection.
(30:39):
We just hadn't had, you know, the time alone to
like we were, you know, you're in a group and
you make passing comments and conversations and you're like, oh
fuck yeah, I agree. Why isn't that happening? And like,
we're very passionate about similar things. And we wanted to
do the portrait for years and it didn't happen. Didn't happen.
(30:59):
He was there, I was there. He also wasn't ready,
and he felt he was very spiritual and I didn't
realize how spiritual. And he felt like having his portrait
done was like capturing his soul in a way. Took
it really seriously. I went to see him that Christmas
(31:19):
just so happened he was in Perth and I went
to Perth and we had this like the most amazing
weekend of just letting every, every kind of thought out
and boundaries gone about what we can talk about and
(31:41):
like really everything, you know, stuff you can't, you hide
and you can't share and relationships and his relationship. And
he'd broken up with his girlfriend. He couldn't see his kid.
It was killing him. He was starved himself for that role.
He's invested so much in Batman. He wasn't drinking. He
(32:04):
was thinking about the future a lot, but very vulnerable.
Like he was thinking about his friends that he had
for a long time. Are were they using me? Are
they using me? Are they my friends? New friends? Knowing
for someone he is now, he'll never be able to
do that again. Make original friends and question questioning old friends.
He's questioning that everyone he meets wants something and eventually
(32:29):
they'll ask. And not completely. It's not like he was cynical,
like believed in no one. He wanted to believe. And
it was. It was hurting him that he couldn't or
it wasn't working.
S1 (32:40):
And you had this scene unfold where he sort of
woke up one morning and went out onto the lawn.
S2 (32:48):
Yeah, I arrived, we had a big late night. Well,
he wasn't drinking, so he was fresh in the morning.
I wasn't. I arrived at his house about seven in
the morning and because we were so excited to do it,
we got up and I walked in and he said
nothing to me. He just grabbed as we walked through
and I followed him. Uh, I just had to like
(33:09):
it was like it was already in a zone and
didn't even want to talk. He just grabbed the chair
and I followed him. He sat it down and sat
on it. He was in his pajama pants with no
shoes and no t shirt on, and he sat there
without saying what we're doing. And so I figured it
out and grabbed my camera, and he sat in the chair, um,
(33:33):
and he just quietly, for an awkwardly long time, he
just stared like he's just sitting there, breathing until the
point where he just went to another place and I thought,
oh fuck, he's lost it. I'll just take some photos.
And even though he's Blank as can be. He didn't move.
(33:58):
I'm like, this is weird, but interesting. And he got
out of the chair and he walked around. Um, I
sat in front of himself, and he where? It was like,
he's still there. Yeah. This heath stayed and one got
up and walked around and he he, you know, on
one knee and he looked himself in the eyes and
(34:19):
again really long time. This is like, you know, I
wish I filmed it the how powerful it was like really.
You know, you look in the mirror and you're like,
who the fuck am I? What is what is all this?
I could, as he was doing it without words, I
felt like I was watching, hearing all the dialogue of
(34:41):
things we spoke about. Didn't look at me like I
wasn't there. Then he got up, walked to one side
and he started screaming, but not a normal scream. He
was screaming. It was a noise I hadn't heard, you know,
goosebumps thinking about it. Um, fear spit coming out of
his mouth in his face. He's there and he's in
his face and angry at the veins popping out. Then
(35:03):
he stopped and just walked around, relaxed, came to the
other side. He laughed, whispered in his ear so I
couldn't hear it. And he's telling himself stuff like he's
actually telling himself stuff. And this went on for like,
it felt like a long time. It's probably ten minutes.
And then I was like, fuck, how am I going
(35:25):
to make this into a painting? Um, I always work
with amazing people. This was true performance about his life.
S1 (35:34):
It's amazing. What's life like for you now, Vincent? Because
it has to be said that your dyslexia and dyscalculia
is just kind of the beginning of your processing issues.
You've mentioned before to me how you probably can't tell
left from right. You don't really know the sequence of
the four seasons or rattling off the months of the year.
S2 (35:54):
I don't even know what month it is.
S1 (35:55):
Now there you go. Like you miss appointments, lose keys, wallets.
S2 (35:59):
It sounds.
S1 (36:00):
Very difficult. And it sounds like Asher must be a saint.
S2 (36:03):
No, she's lucky, I tell her every day. Um. I
feel like I just learned it's just normal for me.
But I think if it happens to someone else or
someone's new in my life. Like, the gallery manager actually
shares a dyslexic daughter. But people new in your life,
they're like, how the fuck do you live like this?
I get lost coming here. I get, you know, I,
(36:26):
I painted all night last night because I forgot I
was coming. I knew and I'd been looking forward to it,
but I forgot. And then I stayed up till four.
And you just. And it's not just that. It's general memory.
It's friends and people. I can't remember anyone's name.
S1 (36:41):
It's have trouble with faces sometimes too.
S2 (36:43):
Completely with faces. It happens to me so often out
of context. But then once I'm like, oh fuck yes,
it's you. I can remember every part of our conversation
and I really care about the person and I. It's
so embarrassing and I feel like I. It makes you
feel like you let people down a lot. So I
try and just tell myself about all the good stuff
(37:05):
as well, you know, so many good things. And that's why,
you know, I desperately want to get testing. Like, you know,
there's a dental van and the AI van, all those things.
Ears hearing. I found out my son had an eye
problem because of the van. I want a van to
go into schools. One to teach all the other kids that, um,
(37:29):
some of your favorite people that inspire you have these
things like Steven Spielberg, Richard Branson, the 100m sprinter that
won the gold medal, all these musicians, all sorts. And
then also test the kids in, you know, elite schools.
Often the parents are embarrassed and the kids are, you know,
they get them tutors, which doesn't work. Um, and in
(37:53):
lower demographic schools, kids can't afford to get tested. You know,
it could be a single mum. She doesn't even know
because she's so busy treading water. Um, and then the
testing is expensive. And then you also need, you know,
I'd like to have somewhere where they can follow on,
get looked after, and maybe have a bit of camaraderie with, uh,
(38:16):
or mentor with someone that's successful and has it.
S1 (38:21):
What about another goal in your life? It was a great,
great quote from the story you want to Jamie Oliver,
the art world.
S2 (38:27):
Yeah. Um, so, you know, I feel like, um, I
might be able to start to get there as well.
So if you look again, I'm talking about shit's things.
So I don't remember much. But I do remember in
youth prisons, you know, there's a big, big percentage of
those kids that have all these neurodiversities or a broken home,
(38:48):
all those different things, and some of them are sport
gets some kids out. Music does. There's a lot of
kids that are good at art and they're creative and
it's no option for them. It doesn't seem appealing. So
if I can make and also for adults, you know,
and I always use the example if I was unless
(39:10):
you're a big art fan, if you ask anyone to
name five artists, they can't. So all Blackman, Olson, Picasso,
all those blue chip kind of people like it's like
it's the best job.
S1 (39:22):
Probably dead guys, right?
S2 (39:23):
Like, you could.
S1 (39:24):
Name most people. Couldn't name five Australian contemporary artists.
S2 (39:28):
Right now I have to watch my back to, um. Yeah.
So it's a weird thing, like, how do you anyway,
I want to do that so kids can not be
embarrassed of having, um, some commerciality or a lot. You know,
some kids make art and they want to be a
millionaire like other kids. Go for it. Do whatever you like.
(39:48):
Doesn't take away your integrity. Just. They're just ambitious.
S1 (39:52):
When I wrote the first profile piece that I did
of you because we met quite a few years.
S2 (39:58):
Ago, 11, ten, ten, 11.
S1 (40:00):
Years, the headline of that story was portrait of the
artist as a Young Man. Now, now, now, we're both
in our late 40s. Um, you seem very young at heart, though.
And but there is one wonderful kind of middle aged
aspect of your life that I enjoy. And I came
along to see Fight Club. Tell it. Tell us a
(40:20):
little bit about Fight Club, what you do and what
you get from it.
S2 (40:23):
I tell you, like I said, having good people, uh,
you know, I had some shit people when I was young.
I have the most amazing friends. Just not just Fight Club,
but fight club. Is it changed? And I don't want
to say it's me. It's the whole group. It changes
lives and changes people. and I've watched people that didn't
(40:44):
know each other and wouldn't ever have met become great friends.
But there is, you know, plastic surgeons, entrepreneurs, music business politicians,
big TV producers. My mates from soccer, the dads that
we've all become amazing friends. And when you're there and
(41:05):
you wouldn't believe the people, the success, but how humble
and supportive. They're a bunch of middle aged, uncoordinated, successful
people that I get to yell at. And, um, I
wish I, you know, I wish everyone could have that.
You know, you're not catching up in a pub and
(41:26):
everyone's there, but we're still laughing just as much.
S1 (41:29):
Um, so for the listeners, this is twice a week,
early mornings, Tuesday and Thursday in Vincent's studio. So there's
this backdrop of sketches and half done paintings and finished
paintings all over the walls, and then a bunch of
sweaty dudes kind of sparring and hitting speedballs.
S2 (41:49):
Yeah, it's, uh, the energy is amazing. You know, we
do play Rocky soundtracks sometimes.
S1 (41:57):
Now, the other paintings that I noticed when I was
in there watching that, this last question for you, um,
were abstract ones, which is a bit of a departure
for you. It's going somewhere new. Um, tell us a
little bit about them. They're sort of, uh, if I
had to describe them to readers, they're these sort of
script like curls and swirls over pastel backgrounds. At least
(42:20):
one series that I saw. Yeah.
S2 (42:22):
So back to when I was a kid trying to
write that note, for example, I or a copy of
the board. I had no idea what I was writing
or if it made sense. I was writing down a story.
I wanted to write stories, and I looked at it.
It made no sense to anyone, but it looked pretty good.
I did fake cursive writing. And so I said, oh,
I'll just make that double line and I'll put a
(42:44):
shadow on it. And it became graffiti looking in the beginning,
and then it became patterns, and it became really therapeutic
for me to paint something that doesn't have to be anything.
But I was really embarrassed to show the work, because
when I was at uni, I was known for this
figurative stuff and I love abstract painting. I just didn't
(43:04):
know how to almost defend myself about why I didn't
know about art movements. Everything had to be referenced to something,
and I also love it because it shows people well.
One I like all art. I don't expect anyone to
do what I do. Um, and I want kids to
know that you can, you know, kids get put off,
use the example. Their dog looks like a horse. And
(43:27):
I like dog horses, you know, like anything. Just do
whatever you like. But for me, it's, you know, it's
just fun.
S1 (43:36):
I love the Dog Haus. Thanks so much for coming in, Vincent.
It was great to catch up again.
S2 (43:41):
Um, thanks. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it. And,
you know, for kids that, uh, want to become artists,
you can have an incredible life.
S1 (43:52):
That was a Australian portrait artist Vincent Fantauzzo on the
latest Good weekend talks. If you enjoyed this episode, please
remember to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get your
podcasts and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations. Good
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(44:17):
This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced by Konrad
Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery, with technical assistance from
Cormac Lally. Tammy Mills is our executive producer, Tom McKendrick
is head of audio and Greg Callahan is the acting
editor of Good Weekend.
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