March 14, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode, we speak with Curtis Stone. The Melbourne-born, LA-based chef has run two celebrated restaurants in that city, earning several Michelin stars and praise from critics – yet in Australia he’s better known as the face of Coles, for whom he’s been an ambassador for 15 years. He’s back in town right now, about to cook for 1700 people at Melbourne Food and Wine Festival’s flagship event, the World’s Longest Lunch, in Kings Domain on March 21. Hosting this conversation, which covers everything from run-ins with restaurant critics to how Aussie meat pies are being received in LA, is Good Food’s eating out and restaurant editor in Melbourne, Emma Breheny.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:07):
Hi, I'm Conrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald
and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine
for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from
sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond every week.
You can download new episodes in which top journalists from
across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive
(00:29):
stories of the day. In this episode, we speak with
Curtis Stone. The Melbourne born, LA based chef has run
two celebrated restaurants in that city, earning several Michelin stars
and praise from critics. Yet in Australia, he's better known
as the face of Coles, for whom he's been an
ambassador for 15 years. The distinction doesn't worry him, though.
(00:50):
Stone is too busy flipping restaurants to keep up with
LA's changing tastes, as well as cooking at fire fundraisers
and posting cheesy declarations of love to his wife on Instagram.
He's back in town right now, about to cook lunch
for 1700 people at Melbourne Food and Wine Festival's flagship event,
the world's longest lunch in Kings Domain, on March 21st,
(01:12):
and hosting this conversation, which covers everything from run ins
with restaurant critics to how Aussie pies are being received
in LA, is Good, Food's Eating Out and restaurants editor
in Melbourne, Emma Breen.
S2 (01:25):
Thanks Conrad and hi Curtis, how.
S3 (01:28):
Are you doing?
S2 (01:29):
First of all, how are you and your family going
following the LA fires? Because I understand that you guys
are in Malibu, is that right?
S3 (01:37):
Uh, we live in Brentwood, which is the neighbouring suburb
to the Palisades. Um, so. Yeah, it was it's it's
been horrible what's happened? You know, the fire sort of
burnt all the way up to our street. Um, so
lots of our neighbours, you know, lost their homes. We
luckily didn't. Um, but, yeah, the whole the whole neighborhood's
been been pretty devastated, for sure.
S2 (01:58):
Yeah. Awful, awful. How did the neighborhood and the restaurant
community sort of react to the fires? What were you
seeing in terms of people responding?
S3 (02:09):
Uh, the restaurant business is always incredibly generous in the
way it responds to any kind of disaster. I'm I
to be honest, I'm not exactly sure why, you know,
but they do that the restaurant industry is always the
first one to jump on board and help help people out.
Maybe it's because hospitality is the nature of of what
(02:29):
it is. You know, it's nurturing and it's giving. And
that's kind of just what what we do. We're doing
a big fundraiser this week, actually, um, which has a
bunch of incredible chefs coming on board to sort of
help out. So the restaurant industry always finds its way
to sort of help people out. Uh, and it has
been really cool watching the neighborhood respond the way it has.
(02:52):
You know, people that ran a food truck started like
a sort of an opportunity for people to come and
get clothes and just stuff that they needed, people that
had been displaced or lost their homes. So yeah, it's
there's been a really beautiful community, um, response to it.
But yeah, Aussies are no stranger to fires. So we
know what it's like to to live through this. And, um, yeah,
(03:14):
this one was particularly brutal.
S2 (03:16):
Yeah. Yeah, it really was, um. Well, yeah. I'm glad
to hear that you guys are all okay. Um, you
opened a new venue, The Pie Room in Los Angeles
late last year. Um, and I believe you ran that
as a pop up during the pandemic initially. How are
Americans responding to the idea of a pie shop? Because
(03:36):
to them, a pie is a sweet thing. And, you know,
we have really different ideas of baked goods between Australians
and Americans. Um, that's what we call biscuits. They call cookies.
How are they going? How are they responding to it?
S3 (03:49):
Look, during the pandemic, the response was bananas. You know,
we and I was like, is it because it's the
pandemic and no one's got anything else to do or
can't go to restaurants? You know, we were selling big pies,
both meat and sweet. Um, and, you know, sweet and
savory and, um. Yeah, we we'd sell out every day.
And I wasn't sure whether it was just because of
(04:10):
the pandemic or not, but since we reopened, it's still
very popular. You know, we, um. Yeah, we're it's a busy,
a busy little spot. And I think people the the
interesting thing is people have done Aussie pie shops before
and they've never really worked over here. And I've always
wondered why. But I think it's because a meat pie
(04:30):
is so foreign, um, to Americans that when you tell
them that that's what they should eat, they kind of
scratch their head a little. What we did differently was
we sold a lot of sweet stuff, too. So we
Americans make beautiful sweet pies. Apple pie, pumpkin pie. Um,
I know Aussies are a bit like pumpkin pie. Uh,
it can be, can be really good key lime pie.
(04:52):
They have some some real winners. Um, so we started
selling those as well as the meat pie. So people
would probably come in for the sweet stuff. And we
saw our sales on the sweet side, like 8020, in
the early days. And then it balanced out to be
more 5050 because I think once people see it, they're like,
all right, I'll try it. I'll try this sausage roll
thing that you're talking about. And then they eat it
(05:14):
and they're like, that thing's good. So then they come
back for it, you know? So. So yeah, it's pretty cool.
S2 (05:19):
Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. The ordeals of opening and running a
restaurant have really been forefront in popular culture. Thanks to
The Bear, the TV show that's won something like 20 Emmys.
And it's spawned lots of Yes Chef memes. Have you
watched The Bear?
S3 (05:36):
I haven't no, I've watched a couple of episodes, but
I haven't watched the season. It's a bit like watching
a day at work, so I'd rather just, uh, live,
live my reality and watch something else that what I
saw of it, I did like, you know, I would
watch it. I just haven't got around to it.
S2 (05:53):
Yeah, yeah. A few chefs have said to me that
it kind of gives them PTSD of the stresses of
working in a kitchen during a really busy service.
S3 (06:02):
Yeah, I love it. I mean, I've always thrived on
that busyness, that crazy, you know, that anxiety of, am
I going to be ready for service? I know it
sounds ridiculous, but I've always really loved that. Um, and
my wife will tell you that I still arrive too
late to the airport, and I have to run for
every plane that I catch. And she's like, it's because
(06:22):
of what you do for a living. I can just
see it. That's you love. That idea of it might
not work out, but somehow it always does. Yeah, I
can't explain it. I'm not a psychologist, but there is
something about it that I do love.
S2 (06:35):
Do you still get that rush at the bakery? The
pie room?
S3 (06:39):
Not as much. It's a much more chilled service. Although
the bakery, because there's two things. There's the. We have
a 6000 square foot bakery, so we have a lamination room.
So we do all of our viennoiserie in there. We
have a pie room. We have a chocolate room. So
there's lots going on in that bakery. And they start
at 4:00 in the morning and they bake and then they,
(07:00):
they make once that bakes gone out. But that first
delivery sort of leaves at 7:00 in the morning to,
to go to the pie room. So it's still a
fun energy in there. And I'm not a baker, you know,
I mean I love baking, but I wasn't I didn't
do an apprenticeship in pastry or being a baker. So
it's something I've sort of come to later in my career,
(07:21):
but I love it. I love that idea of kneading
bread and making it. I'm still nowhere near as talented
as the bakers that work with me. I know how
to make a good pie and a good dough and
a good sausage roll, but, um. But yeah, I get
my thrill in service at Gwen. That's okay.
S2 (07:39):
I understand that you closed your other LA restaurant, Maude,
to open the pie room. What were your reasons for
doing that and sort of flipping into another style of venue?
S3 (07:51):
Maude was in its 11th year, and it was such
a fun restaurant because we changed the menu every month
when we first opened, and it was a new ingredient
every month. So we'd try and come up with ten
dishes or 12 dishes that would use that same ingredient.
And when you're doing an artichoke menu, coming up with
three artichoke desserts or an asparagus, you know, like it
(08:11):
was a really creative, um, mission. And it was fun.
It was so fun. It also nearly killed me, you know,
like it was really challenging. And by the first or
second week of the new menu, you'd just get everyone
dialed in and then you'd be like, oh my God,
I'm so behind on next month's menu. So it was this,
like creative treadmill that you could never get off, um,
(08:34):
which was awesome. And it was. And then we did
a couple of iterations of Maude. At one point we
flipped it. We kind of ran out of ingredients. We
did five years, almost, you know. So, you know, choose
your 50 favorite ingredients and then try and do another
12 ingredients for the next year. And you're like, um,
white asparagus or what about, you know, you, you start
sort of twiddling your thumbs because we didn't want to
(08:55):
repeat ingredients. Anyway, Maude was fantastic. It was a 24
seat dining room. Um, we refined it even more and
made it 20 seats, and it was so fun. But
it was also all consuming. You know, I'm a dad
and a husband, and I have Gwen and I have
would end in Mexico, another great restaurant. So I didn't
(09:15):
want to just be like one thing my whole life.
You know, I did it for 11 years and I
didn't want to keep doing it and have it be
inauthentic where I wasn't the one creating the menu. Um, and,
you know, I've always sort of had a bit of
a thing for chefs that don't show up to work. Um,
and I never wanted to be one of those guys, so.
So I thought it was time for something new.
S2 (09:36):
Okay, so, um, this this gives you the new venue,
gives you more time to get around to all your restaurants.
Is that the idea?
S3 (09:45):
Yeah. Look, Gwen probably started off as a restaurant that
was meat centric. You know, it wasn't as, um, precious
as Maude. Certainly, Maude was a lot more intricate in
the way we played it and the way we, you know,
had 24 staff members for a 20 seat dining room.
It was pretty, um, a lot of intensity in the
(10:06):
way we we approach stuff. Gwen was always meant to
be a little simpler than that. We cook everything on
live fire. We source incredible meats. It's got a butcher shop. So,
you know, it was it was a different style of restaurant,
but I couldn't kind of quite help myself. So I
put more intricacies into that, and the more I was finding,
I was a bit torn in between those two, two places.
(10:26):
So Gwen's probably developed into something more than it was
maybe intended to be. Um, which is awesome. It's super exciting. And,
you know, it's a really busy, fabulous restaurant. We love it.
and the room was meant to be a bit of fun,
you know, like, I'm super proud of being an Aussie
and I'm proud of the food that we cook and serve, um,
(10:47):
in Australia. And I kind of thought that there was
an opportunity to do that. And, you know, it's more
than just a pie shop. We do all sorts of
things in there, but it's, uh, it's, um. Yeah, it
doesn't require me every single day of my life. Their
nose to the grindstone. You know.
S2 (11:02):
It's been a tough couple of years for LA dining.
Even before the fires, there's been something like 150 restaurants
that have closed in the last two years. Um, and
the LA times said that 2023 was the year that
killed restaurants. What's going on? What is driving these closures?
S3 (11:19):
God, if I had the answer in a nutshell, I
think I'd be able to share that with everyone. And
we'd all change tactics and do something slightly different. So
I don't think anyone really knows the truth of it.
I think meal delivery has played a big factor in
certain restaurants. Um, that was never something we did. We've
never done meal delivery, you know, until now with with
(11:42):
the room. But, um, it wasn't something, you know, you're
not like. Do I order food in or do I
go to a 12 course dégustation menu? You know, I
don't think that that's that kind of restaurant, but I
do think it affected some. And so I think that
had a factor. I think the hangover of Covid was
a real problem. You know, we all changed our habits,
(12:03):
whether it's going to work or working from home. You know,
like our habits just changed. And I think that had, um,
a bit of a challenge on restaurants. I think we
are cooking way less than we ever were at home.
So the budget that we have to go to a
nice restaurant is maybe more spread now because we're eating,
having someone else cook for us more often, whether that's
(12:24):
meal delivery, whether that's fast casual, whatever it is. Um,
so yeah, I think there's a variety of factors, but
I think the thing that we find so hard in
the business is we know what things cost in terms
of the cost of ingredients as well as, um, the,
the cost of labor. So we know that we should
be charging more than we are, but we also know
(12:46):
if we put our prices up, people will stop coming. So,
you know, there's that kind of we're a little out
of balance in our business, if that makes sense.
S2 (12:54):
Yeah, absolutely. And as you would know, there's a very
similar thing happening in Australia with yeah, costs of goods
and overheads going up for restaurants. Um, at the same
time that household budgets are getting tighter and tighter. Yeah.
(13:17):
There's actually quite a lot of sides to Curtis Stone
that some Australians may not be aware of. You've got
serious culinary training, you've worked under Marco Pierre White, you've
won several Michelin stars, but Australians are kind of less
familiar with that side of you and know you more
as the guy in the Kohl's ads. Yeah. Do you
wear a different persona when you're in America?
S3 (13:39):
Oh, God. I think I'm the same human as I
always am. Um, and I love what I do. You know,
I love working in restaurants, and I love being behind
the past and in the weeds with my team. There's
nothing I like more, actually. Um, I also love creating
recipes that home cooks can follow and have success with
their families. You know, to me, it's the same thing.
(14:01):
It's funny, we were talking about the restaurant business being
nurturing and giving, and I'll never forget looking out into
the dining room once I was senior enough to be
able to do that, and watching someone taste the food
that I prepared. And in this one moment, I saw
this guy like, you know, kind of have this reaction.
And then he quickly got more on his fork and
(14:22):
gave it to his partner, and she tried it and
had a similar reaction. It made me feel like, oh
my God. I stood in this kitchen for 15 hours today,
and it was absolutely worth it because they loved it.
And I had the exact same feeling when someone approached
me on the street in, in Melbourne and was like,
oh my God, you're Curtis, the guy from Coles. He's like,
(14:45):
I cook your salmon recipe every Friday night, you know,
with the broccoli and the orange. And I was like,
I knew exactly the recipe he's talking about. And I thought,
oh my God, I've never met this guy, but he's
having a nice experience because I wrote a recipe and
that made me feel just as good as working in
a michelin starred restaurant. And it's still genuinely does. You know,
(15:05):
I think as a dad, um, who works a lot,
it's not easy to get food on the table. And
the payoffs got to be they like it. Otherwise you
shouldn't have bothered, you know, because if you're if they
don't eat it and go, that's delicious, then it's kind
of all for nothing. So helping people in that way
I find really rewarding.
S2 (15:23):
How does the produce of Southern California compare to what
we can get in Australia in, say, Melbourne or Sydney.
S3 (15:30):
Oh, don't do that to me. It's so it's so
hard to answer because, you know, Southern California grows some
of the greatest vegetables in the world. You know, really
it's sunshine nine months of the year. There's also real
diversity in the growing conditions here. I buy carrots out
of the high desert, and that has a frost on
the ground nine months of the year. And it's only
(15:52):
40 minutes from Hollywood. And I buy tomatoes out of
San Diego, which is a couple of hours south. But it's,
you know, within a couple of hours you can have
totally different climates, which is really unique. Um, so the
produce is good, it's good. And there's kind of also
this like hippie ish kind of Southern Californian thing where
(16:12):
people still want to do things naturally and organic and, um,
so that's awesome. That said, we're also extremely lucky in Australia, right?
We're a giant island. Um, and we grow things All
over the place, you know, from northern Queensland. We've got
beautiful tropics, beautiful tropical, tropical ingredients on our doorstep. And
(16:33):
we can also grow strawberries in Queensland in the middle
of winter, where that doesn't make a ton of sense
if you're from Tasmania or Victoria, because strawberries are a
spring fruit. So, you know, we have real diversity within
Australia and we also grow great things. So I couldn't
choose one over the other.
S2 (16:49):
Very diplomatic. Um, would you ever move back to Australia
to open a restaurant here?
S3 (16:56):
I'd love to, yeah I would. My wife's an actress, and,
you know, LA has always been the home of, um,
of the entertainment business. Uh, so that's a challenge. And
I've got restaurants here, too, so maybe I didn't think
it through brilliantly at the beginning, but it is difficult
to just, like, pick up and disappear because you've got
other responsibilities. And now, of course, I've got a 13
(17:17):
year old, a ten year old who are in school.
So it's there's lots of things to consider. Um, but
I absolutely love coming home. I really feel like I
live my best life because I'm back home 6 to
7 times a year. Um, and I still feel totally
like an Aussie. And I get to, you know, when
I talk about, um, I'm always talking about it from
(17:38):
an Aussie perspective, I think. But I do still live
a lot of my life here, so who knows? I'd
love to open a restaurant there. Absolutely.
S2 (17:45):
Uh, you are going to be coming home again next
month for Melbourne Food and Wine Festival, and you are
hosting their flagship event, The World's Longest Lunch. Yeah. Um,
I've been to a few of these events and it
is really quite amazing seeing them get lunch out to
1700 people pretty much at the same time, right. How
how does one do that? You have an events company
(18:08):
and they're going to be catering it. How do you
get lunch out to 1700 people?
S3 (18:14):
Well, it's um, it's a big number. Uh, we do
the SAG Awards over here, and that's 1200. Um, but
it's a bit more controlled. You know, the longest lunch,
of course, is is in a different location each year. So, um,
it's not like you've got that institutional knowledge as to
exactly how to work a space or work a, you know,
(18:34):
so you have to have an incredible team. That's the
first thing, right? You need great ingredients and incredible team.
Otherwise you just can't do it. Uh, and then you
need to really segment that out and be like, all right.
You kind of replicate in kitchens across the lunch because
one kitchen can't possibly serve that many plates fast enough.
So we'll have team leaders who are sort of executing
(18:57):
little sections of that lunch, um, so we can drop
it all together. Um, and it'll all be super consistent
and delicious. But that that's years of practice. Yeah.
S2 (19:06):
Are there any dishes that are absolute no goes when
you're feeding that many people?
S3 (19:11):
Oh, look, I think the, the easy choice is to
try and take care of everyone's allergies and Dietary preferences,
which is not to do that. Actually, I'd rather still
be kind of unique and interesting, and hopefully our food is, um,
something that everyone wants to come to. Um, and if
(19:33):
it's not, we get it. And that's alright, you know?
But I never like to just do generic stuff and
be like, all right, you see it quite often now,
and I think it's because there are so many more allergies, um,
and preferences. So people tend to say, well, let's make
the vegetarian gluten free. Actually, let's make it vegan, gluten free,
dairy free. And then it just kind of becomes this homogenous, homogenized.
(19:57):
It's back when when we had no creativity around plant
based dining. And you'd always like the poor veggies out there.
They'd go out for dinner and they'd get an artichoke
salad or an avocado and avocado salad and then a risotto.
And that was that, you know, and it was kind
of like always the same option. so I always try
(20:18):
and be more inventive with the menu. Of course you
get some pushback. Sometimes clients are like, are you crazy?
We can't serve that to 1700 people. But Melbourne food
and wine is all about gastronomy. So? So they're on board.
S2 (20:29):
Are you allowed to tell us anything you'll be cooking?
S3 (20:31):
No I'm not.
S2 (20:32):
Top secret?
S3 (20:33):
It's top secret.
S2 (20:34):
Wow.
S3 (20:35):
Well, I don't know. I'm not sure whether they've published
the menu or not, but I might get in trouble
if I. If I say the wrong thing.
S2 (20:41):
Okay, we're having some really sort of interesting discussions and
debates in Australian hospitality at the moment. Um, some of
it is around kitchen culture, um, and safety at work
and things like that. Um, another really interesting discussion has been, um,
some of the comments made by one of our most
(21:01):
famous chefs, Ben Surey of Attica, who has spoken out
quite strongly against restaurant critics. Um, he feels that the
system is corrupt and that most restaurant critics are not
qualified to judge the food of chefs with as much
experience as himself. What do you think about the role
that critics can play in today's system where we've got reviews,
(21:24):
there's Google ratings, there's TikTok creators, right? Where where does
the restaurant critic fit into that?
S3 (21:30):
God, it's such a good question. It's such an interesting debate.
You know, like I mentioned, I work for Marco Pierre White,
and I watched him spend a massive chunk of his
life in pursuit of Michelin stars. You know, like, no
two bones about it. Like, that was our goal. We
had to be excellent so that we were rated really well. Um,
and then I think he went full circle with it
(21:52):
and was like, they don't know as much as we do.
Why should we be judged by them? You know, and
there's real validity in that, you know, but then it's
also commentary. And I know food critics that are brilliant
at their job and have incredible insights and Intel, and
they have a beautiful way of writing about it. And Ultimately,
(22:13):
if you're not open to criticism, then you're not open
to being spoken about, you know? And I think that
that's really important because that's how your restaurant gets busy.
First of all, it's word of mouth. You know, if
you guess, like their experience, they go out into the
world and they tell people about it and they tell
their coworkers and their friends and their family. I had
(22:34):
a great meal. And then hopefully those people come to you.
That's how we thrive. Um, that's how we die as well.
If we're no good and we do, we give people
bad experiences. They also go and talk about it. So
I'm totally open to being reviewed. I get Ben's point
because sometimes you get reviewed. I remember doing a dish
when I worked in London, and I made a sauce
(22:56):
that I served with tagliatelle from the head of the langoustines.
So I took the langoustine heads and I put them
in a blender, and then I roasted it, and I
deglazed it with Madeira and brandy, and then I covered
it in a shellfish stock that I'd made separately, and
I reduced it down, and it came out like this
beautifully pink flavor of crustacea. And I served it with
(23:19):
langoustine tails and the, um, tagliatelle.
S2 (23:23):
And I and langoustines are a specific type of prawn. Right? Prawn?
S3 (23:27):
Yeah. Scampi. Um, so the next day I read the
review and he spoke about the it was a very
positive review, but he spoke about the lightly centred tomato
sauce that was served with. And I was like, tomatoes,
it's not a tomato that goes near that sauce. So
sometimes you're now had that been a slating review where
(23:49):
he says it was wrong and he used tomatoes out
of season, then I probably read that and want to
burn the newspaper because you're like, you don't know what
you're talking about, right? So I totally get both sides
of it. And it's, um, it's not easy. I watched
what Ben did. Ben's a dear friend of mine, and
I respect him. Um. And I really respect someone that's
(24:10):
he's gone through the highs and the lows as well. Right.
We've all gone through the lows. Not many of us
get to the highs that Ben had. So to be
able to come out and be like, you know what,
check your check your ego at the door, do a
good job. Let your customers decide. Don't get all wound
up in the awards. I appreciate that that perspective.
S2 (24:29):
Yeah, right. Yeah. Have you ever had any reviews that
have really crushed you or, um, knocked knocked your sense
of self or sense of what you were doing?
S3 (24:42):
Um, God, I don't know that. I've read a review
that's crushed me. Um, I've probably disagreed with some of them. Um,
good and bad. Right. I just gave you an example
of one that I was left going, oh, my God,
I actually can't take the credit for anything you're saying
because you actually didn't even get it, you know? Um,
(25:02):
and I'm glad that that was in London and I
don't work there anymore because I can talk openly about it.
But the truth is, if that was in L.A. and
that critic was working for a publication that I lived
in fear of, then I probably wouldn't tell the story.
And that's garbage you should be able to tell, you
know that. So but like I said, I know some
(25:22):
incredible food critics that I've learned a lot from over
the years, um, that have done a beautiful job. And
I've loved reading their pieces, you know. So it's it's
a hard one.
S2 (25:33):
Yeah. We're living through very interesting times. Do we need
a michelin Guide in Australia? You've worked with one and
without one in LA as it's come and gone over
the years. What's your feeling on the role that it
can play?
S3 (25:46):
The incredible thing about the Michelin Guide is it's reliable
and it's consistent. Right. So I don't know that I've
ever gone into a one Michelin star restaurant and been
like that did not deserve the star or a two star.
And been like, that was only a one star. It's
very like clear Likelier that they do their job properly. Um, now,
(26:08):
if you're a competitive person like me, I love it
because I don't want to lose a star. I want
to get a, you know, I, I want to know
where I'm at. If I'm playing sport, I want to
play to win. I don't want to not keep score.
I want, I want to, I want to win. So
I think it's incredibly positive. It's also great. What I've
(26:29):
sort of really noticed is it's kind of almost a
gentle education of the diner to know what's what and
where things are at. You know, and I think that
you see the dining public really responding to it. You know,
so so I think that's that's cool. The one thing
that makes me pause ever so slightly is when I
did Maude, it was very experimental. And like I said,
(26:52):
we did one ingredient, all these different menus. And then
if I had have had that idea back when the
Michelin Guide was in existence in LA, it wasn't. When
I started, I might have thought to myself, God, it's
too inconsistent for the guy to judge or take seriously.
So I don't know whether you have that same level
of freedom as a chef to be like, I'll just
(27:14):
try anything. Um, but is that a good thing or
a bad thing? I don't know that it's a bad thing,
I don't know. I love the guide. I think they
do a wonderful job. I'll always respect it. Um, I
feel very blessed to have been included in it and
to won stars in both my restaurants and, um. Yeah,
I think it'd be great for Australia. You know, the
(27:36):
thing that I think the most about, sorry, you've touched
on something that gets me going. I don't know that
the rest of the world understands how fantastic Australian food is,
and I'm constantly talking about it and I'm constantly explaining
it to people, but I don't think they get it
when they go that people are like, wow, the food's
really good. And because of that response, I'm like, yeah,
(27:57):
people don't appreciate us for what we can do. um,
back there. And I think the guide would help explain
that to people.
S2 (28:05):
Yeah, right. So put putting Australian restaurants more on a
world stage.
S3 (28:10):
Yeah, yeah. For sure.
S2 (28:12):
If there's one thing that you wish people paid more
attention to when they were shopping for food, what would
it be?
S3 (28:19):
Oh. Good question. Um, I think the thing that we
haven't really wrapped our heads around as a society is
how much food we waste. Um, and that's at every stage, right?
We waste food in the farm because maybe it doesn't
fit perfectly into the parameters. It's slightly too big, slightly
too small, has a tiny bit of damage from some hail,
(28:40):
but hasn't changed the flavour. So anyway, there's waste there.
There's waste in the store because, you know, we put
things out. We hope that people come to buy them,
but if they don't get there fast enough, we're like,
we can't leave it out too long. And then, of course,
as a shopper, we're all guilty of this. You look
in your fridge at the end of the week and
you're like, I never made it to those zucchinis or
I never got to those carrots. So I think especially
(29:03):
in moments where the cost of living is nuts and it's, um,
it's a real challenge for families. I think being super
mindful about what we're going to, what we're buying and
how we're going to use it. Having that plan in
place before you actually, um, get your food is important
or go buy, be inspired by the season, whatever. Grab it,
(29:23):
but then come home and have a real plan for
it and have a bit of a back up plan
as well. I always make a soup at the end
of every week, and everything in my crisper goes in it,
and it's a delicious soup. My kids have no idea
they're eating leftovers, but I think if you're and it's
also just the responsible thing to do, we all talk
about the environment. We waste almost half of what we grow,
(29:45):
and if we were to cut back on that substantially,
we would have literally if we wasted nothing, we'd have
half the environmental footprint than we have with with food. So, um,
there's lots of reasons to to really think that through. Um,
when you do your shopping.
S2 (30:00):
All right. Great. Thank you. Good tips there, Curtis. And
yeah thanks. It's been a great chat.
S3 (30:05):
Lovely chatting to you. It's fun.
S1 (30:08):
That was Curtis Stone speaking with Good Food restaurant editor
Emma Briney on the latest Good Weekend talks. If you
enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate and comment
wherever you get your podcasts and keep tuning in for
more compelling conversations. Good Weekend Talks is brought to you
by the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age proud newsrooms
powered by subscriptions to support independent journalism. Search, subscribe Sydney
(30:33):
Morning Herald or The Age? This episode of Good Weekend
Talks is produced by Conrad Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery,
with technical assistance from Cormac Lally. Our executive producer is
Tami Mills. Tom McKendrick is head of audio. And Greg
Callahan is the acting editor of Good Weekend.
Hi, I'm Conrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald
and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine
for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from
sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond every week.
You can download new episodes in which top journalists from
across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive
(00:29):
stories of the day. In this episode, we speak with
Curtis Stone. The Melbourne born, LA based chef has run
two celebrated restaurants in that city, earning several Michelin stars
and praise from critics. Yet in Australia, he's better known
as the face of Coles, for whom he's been an
ambassador for 15 years. The distinction doesn't worry him, though.
(00:50):
Stone is too busy flipping restaurants to keep up with
LA's changing tastes, as well as cooking at fire fundraisers
and posting cheesy declarations of love to his wife on Instagram.
He's back in town right now, about to cook lunch
for 1700 people at Melbourne Food and Wine Festival's flagship event,
the world's longest lunch in Kings Domain, on March 21st,
(01:12):
and hosting this conversation, which covers everything from run ins
with restaurant critics to how Aussie pies are being received
in LA, is Good, Food's Eating Out and restaurants editor
in Melbourne, Emma Breen.
S2 (01:25):
Thanks Conrad and hi Curtis, how.
S3 (01:28):
Are you doing?
S2 (01:29):
First of all, how are you and your family going
following the LA fires? Because I understand that you guys
are in Malibu, is that right?
S3 (01:37):
Uh, we live in Brentwood, which is the neighbouring suburb
to the Palisades. Um, so. Yeah, it was it's it's
been horrible what's happened? You know, the fire sort of
burnt all the way up to our street. Um, so
lots of our neighbours, you know, lost their homes. We
luckily didn't. Um, but, yeah, the whole the whole neighborhood's
been been pretty devastated, for sure.
S2 (01:58):
Yeah. Awful, awful. How did the neighborhood and the restaurant
community sort of react to the fires? What were you
seeing in terms of people responding?
S3 (02:09):
Uh, the restaurant business is always incredibly generous in the
way it responds to any kind of disaster. I'm I
to be honest, I'm not exactly sure why, you know,
but they do that the restaurant industry is always the
first one to jump on board and help help people out.
Maybe it's because hospitality is the nature of of what
(02:29):
it is. You know, it's nurturing and it's giving. And
that's kind of just what what we do. We're doing
a big fundraiser this week, actually, um, which has a
bunch of incredible chefs coming on board to sort of
help out. So the restaurant industry always finds its way
to sort of help people out. Uh, and it has
been really cool watching the neighborhood respond the way it has.
(02:52):
You know, people that ran a food truck started like
a sort of an opportunity for people to come and
get clothes and just stuff that they needed, people that
had been displaced or lost their homes. So yeah, it's
there's been a really beautiful community, um, response to it.
But yeah, Aussies are no stranger to fires. So we
know what it's like to to live through this. And, um, yeah,
(03:14):
this one was particularly brutal.
S2 (03:16):
Yeah. Yeah, it really was, um. Well, yeah. I'm glad
to hear that you guys are all okay. Um, you
opened a new venue, The Pie Room in Los Angeles
late last year. Um, and I believe you ran that
as a pop up during the pandemic initially. How are
Americans responding to the idea of a pie shop? Because
(03:36):
to them, a pie is a sweet thing. And, you know,
we have really different ideas of baked goods between Australians
and Americans. Um, that's what we call biscuits. They call cookies.
How are they going? How are they responding to it?
S3 (03:49):
Look, during the pandemic, the response was bananas. You know,
we and I was like, is it because it's the
pandemic and no one's got anything else to do or
can't go to restaurants? You know, we were selling big pies,
both meat and sweet. Um, and, you know, sweet and
savory and, um. Yeah, we we'd sell out every day.
And I wasn't sure whether it was just because of
(04:10):
the pandemic or not, but since we reopened, it's still
very popular. You know, we, um. Yeah, we're it's a busy,
a busy little spot. And I think people the the
interesting thing is people have done Aussie pie shops before
and they've never really worked over here. And I've always
wondered why. But I think it's because a meat pie
(04:30):
is so foreign, um, to Americans that when you tell
them that that's what they should eat, they kind of
scratch their head a little. What we did differently was
we sold a lot of sweet stuff, too. So we
Americans make beautiful sweet pies. Apple pie, pumpkin pie. Um,
I know Aussies are a bit like pumpkin pie. Uh,
it can be, can be really good key lime pie.
(04:52):
They have some some real winners. Um, so we started
selling those as well as the meat pie. So people
would probably come in for the sweet stuff. And we
saw our sales on the sweet side, like 8020, in
the early days. And then it balanced out to be
more 5050 because I think once people see it, they're like,
all right, I'll try it. I'll try this sausage roll
thing that you're talking about. And then they eat it
(05:14):
and they're like, that thing's good. So then they come
back for it, you know? So. So yeah, it's pretty cool.
S2 (05:19):
Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. The ordeals of opening and running a
restaurant have really been forefront in popular culture. Thanks to
The Bear, the TV show that's won something like 20 Emmys.
And it's spawned lots of Yes Chef memes. Have you
watched The Bear?
S3 (05:36):
I haven't no, I've watched a couple of episodes, but
I haven't watched the season. It's a bit like watching
a day at work, so I'd rather just, uh, live,
live my reality and watch something else that what I
saw of it, I did like, you know, I would
watch it. I just haven't got around to it.
S2 (05:53):
Yeah, yeah. A few chefs have said to me that
it kind of gives them PTSD of the stresses of
working in a kitchen during a really busy service.
S3 (06:02):
Yeah, I love it. I mean, I've always thrived on
that busyness, that crazy, you know, that anxiety of, am
I going to be ready for service? I know it
sounds ridiculous, but I've always really loved that. Um, and
my wife will tell you that I still arrive too
late to the airport, and I have to run for
every plane that I catch. And she's like, it's because
(06:22):
of what you do for a living. I can just
see it. That's you love. That idea of it might
not work out, but somehow it always does. Yeah, I
can't explain it. I'm not a psychologist, but there is
something about it that I do love.
S2 (06:35):
Do you still get that rush at the bakery? The
pie room?
S3 (06:39):
Not as much. It's a much more chilled service. Although
the bakery, because there's two things. There's the. We have
a 6000 square foot bakery, so we have a lamination room.
So we do all of our viennoiserie in there. We
have a pie room. We have a chocolate room. So
there's lots going on in that bakery. And they start
at 4:00 in the morning and they bake and then they,
(07:00):
they make once that bakes gone out. But that first
delivery sort of leaves at 7:00 in the morning to,
to go to the pie room. So it's still a
fun energy in there. And I'm not a baker, you know,
I mean I love baking, but I wasn't I didn't
do an apprenticeship in pastry or being a baker. So
it's something I've sort of come to later in my career,
(07:21):
but I love it. I love that idea of kneading
bread and making it. I'm still nowhere near as talented
as the bakers that work with me. I know how
to make a good pie and a good dough and
a good sausage roll, but, um. But yeah, I get
my thrill in service at Gwen. That's okay.
S2 (07:39):
I understand that you closed your other LA restaurant, Maude,
to open the pie room. What were your reasons for
doing that and sort of flipping into another style of venue?
S3 (07:51):
Maude was in its 11th year, and it was such
a fun restaurant because we changed the menu every month
when we first opened, and it was a new ingredient
every month. So we'd try and come up with ten
dishes or 12 dishes that would use that same ingredient.
And when you're doing an artichoke menu, coming up with
three artichoke desserts or an asparagus, you know, like it
(08:11):
was a really creative, um, mission. And it was fun.
It was so fun. It also nearly killed me, you know,
like it was really challenging. And by the first or
second week of the new menu, you'd just get everyone
dialed in and then you'd be like, oh my God,
I'm so behind on next month's menu. So it was this,
like creative treadmill that you could never get off, um,
(08:34):
which was awesome. And it was. And then we did
a couple of iterations of Maude. At one point we
flipped it. We kind of ran out of ingredients. We
did five years, almost, you know. So, you know, choose
your 50 favorite ingredients and then try and do another
12 ingredients for the next year. And you're like, um,
white asparagus or what about, you know, you, you start
sort of twiddling your thumbs because we didn't want to
(08:55):
repeat ingredients. Anyway, Maude was fantastic. It was a 24
seat dining room. Um, we refined it even more and
made it 20 seats, and it was so fun. But
it was also all consuming. You know, I'm a dad
and a husband, and I have Gwen and I have
would end in Mexico, another great restaurant. So I didn't
(09:15):
want to just be like one thing my whole life.
You know, I did it for 11 years and I
didn't want to keep doing it and have it be
inauthentic where I wasn't the one creating the menu. Um, and,
you know, I've always sort of had a bit of
a thing for chefs that don't show up to work. Um,
and I never wanted to be one of those guys, so.
So I thought it was time for something new.
S2 (09:36):
Okay, so, um, this this gives you the new venue,
gives you more time to get around to all your restaurants.
Is that the idea?
S3 (09:45):
Yeah. Look, Gwen probably started off as a restaurant that
was meat centric. You know, it wasn't as, um, precious
as Maude. Certainly, Maude was a lot more intricate in
the way we played it and the way we, you know,
had 24 staff members for a 20 seat dining room.
It was pretty, um, a lot of intensity in the
(10:06):
way we we approach stuff. Gwen was always meant to
be a little simpler than that. We cook everything on
live fire. We source incredible meats. It's got a butcher shop. So,
you know, it was it was a different style of restaurant,
but I couldn't kind of quite help myself. So I
put more intricacies into that, and the more I was finding,
I was a bit torn in between those two, two places.
(10:26):
So Gwen's probably developed into something more than it was
maybe intended to be. Um, which is awesome. It's super exciting. And,
you know, it's a really busy, fabulous restaurant. We love it.
and the room was meant to be a bit of fun,
you know, like, I'm super proud of being an Aussie
and I'm proud of the food that we cook and serve, um,
(10:47):
in Australia. And I kind of thought that there was
an opportunity to do that. And, you know, it's more
than just a pie shop. We do all sorts of
things in there, but it's, uh, it's, um. Yeah, it
doesn't require me every single day of my life. Their
nose to the grindstone. You know.
S2 (11:02):
It's been a tough couple of years for LA dining.
Even before the fires, there's been something like 150 restaurants
that have closed in the last two years. Um, and
the LA times said that 2023 was the year that
killed restaurants. What's going on? What is driving these closures?
S3 (11:19):
God, if I had the answer in a nutshell, I
think I'd be able to share that with everyone. And
we'd all change tactics and do something slightly different. So
I don't think anyone really knows the truth of it.
I think meal delivery has played a big factor in
certain restaurants. Um, that was never something we did. We've
never done meal delivery, you know, until now with with
(11:42):
the room. But, um, it wasn't something, you know, you're
not like. Do I order food in or do I
go to a 12 course dégustation menu? You know, I
don't think that that's that kind of restaurant, but I
do think it affected some. And so I think that
had a factor. I think the hangover of Covid was
a real problem. You know, we all changed our habits,
(12:03):
whether it's going to work or working from home. You know,
like our habits just changed. And I think that had, um,
a bit of a challenge on restaurants. I think we
are cooking way less than we ever were at home.
So the budget that we have to go to a
nice restaurant is maybe more spread now because we're eating,
having someone else cook for us more often, whether that's
(12:24):
meal delivery, whether that's fast casual, whatever it is. Um,
so yeah, I think there's a variety of factors, but
I think the thing that we find so hard in
the business is we know what things cost in terms
of the cost of ingredients as well as, um, the,
the cost of labor. So we know that we should
be charging more than we are, but we also know
(12:46):
if we put our prices up, people will stop coming. So,
you know, there's that kind of we're a little out
of balance in our business, if that makes sense.
S2 (12:54):
Yeah, absolutely. And as you would know, there's a very
similar thing happening in Australia with yeah, costs of goods
and overheads going up for restaurants. Um, at the same
time that household budgets are getting tighter and tighter. Yeah.
(13:17):
There's actually quite a lot of sides to Curtis Stone
that some Australians may not be aware of. You've got
serious culinary training, you've worked under Marco Pierre White, you've
won several Michelin stars, but Australians are kind of less
familiar with that side of you and know you more
as the guy in the Kohl's ads. Yeah. Do you
wear a different persona when you're in America?
S3 (13:39):
Oh, God. I think I'm the same human as I
always am. Um, and I love what I do. You know,
I love working in restaurants, and I love being behind
the past and in the weeds with my team. There's
nothing I like more, actually. Um, I also love creating
recipes that home cooks can follow and have success with
their families. You know, to me, it's the same thing.
(14:01):
It's funny, we were talking about the restaurant business being
nurturing and giving, and I'll never forget looking out into
the dining room once I was senior enough to be
able to do that, and watching someone taste the food
that I prepared. And in this one moment, I saw
this guy like, you know, kind of have this reaction.
And then he quickly got more on his fork and
(14:22):
gave it to his partner, and she tried it and
had a similar reaction. It made me feel like, oh
my God. I stood in this kitchen for 15 hours today,
and it was absolutely worth it because they loved it.
And I had the exact same feeling when someone approached
me on the street in, in Melbourne and was like,
oh my God, you're Curtis, the guy from Coles. He's like,
(14:45):
I cook your salmon recipe every Friday night, you know,
with the broccoli and the orange. And I was like,
I knew exactly the recipe he's talking about. And I thought,
oh my God, I've never met this guy, but he's
having a nice experience because I wrote a recipe and
that made me feel just as good as working in
a michelin starred restaurant. And it's still genuinely does. You know,
(15:05):
I think as a dad, um, who works a lot,
it's not easy to get food on the table. And
the payoffs got to be they like it. Otherwise you
shouldn't have bothered, you know, because if you're if they
don't eat it and go, that's delicious, then it's kind
of all for nothing. So helping people in that way
I find really rewarding.
S2 (15:23):
How does the produce of Southern California compare to what
we can get in Australia in, say, Melbourne or Sydney.
S3 (15:30):
Oh, don't do that to me. It's so it's so
hard to answer because, you know, Southern California grows some
of the greatest vegetables in the world. You know, really
it's sunshine nine months of the year. There's also real
diversity in the growing conditions here. I buy carrots out
of the high desert, and that has a frost on
the ground nine months of the year. And it's only
(15:52):
40 minutes from Hollywood. And I buy tomatoes out of
San Diego, which is a couple of hours south. But it's,
you know, within a couple of hours you can have
totally different climates, which is really unique. Um, so the
produce is good, it's good. And there's kind of also
this like hippie ish kind of Southern Californian thing where
(16:12):
people still want to do things naturally and organic and, um,
so that's awesome. That said, we're also extremely lucky in Australia, right?
We're a giant island. Um, and we grow things All
over the place, you know, from northern Queensland. We've got
beautiful tropics, beautiful tropical, tropical ingredients on our doorstep. And
(16:33):
we can also grow strawberries in Queensland in the middle
of winter, where that doesn't make a ton of sense
if you're from Tasmania or Victoria, because strawberries are a
spring fruit. So, you know, we have real diversity within
Australia and we also grow great things. So I couldn't
choose one over the other.
S2 (16:49):
Very diplomatic. Um, would you ever move back to Australia
to open a restaurant here?
S3 (16:56):
I'd love to, yeah I would. My wife's an actress, and,
you know, LA has always been the home of, um,
of the entertainment business. Uh, so that's a challenge. And
I've got restaurants here, too, so maybe I didn't think
it through brilliantly at the beginning, but it is difficult
to just, like, pick up and disappear because you've got
other responsibilities. And now, of course, I've got a 13
(17:17):
year old, a ten year old who are in school.
So it's there's lots of things to consider. Um, but
I absolutely love coming home. I really feel like I
live my best life because I'm back home 6 to
7 times a year. Um, and I still feel totally
like an Aussie. And I get to, you know, when
I talk about, um, I'm always talking about it from
(17:38):
an Aussie perspective, I think. But I do still live
a lot of my life here, so who knows? I'd
love to open a restaurant there. Absolutely.
S2 (17:45):
Uh, you are going to be coming home again next
month for Melbourne Food and Wine Festival, and you are
hosting their flagship event, The World's Longest Lunch. Yeah. Um,
I've been to a few of these events and it
is really quite amazing seeing them get lunch out to
1700 people pretty much at the same time, right. How
how does one do that? You have an events company
(18:08):
and they're going to be catering it. How do you
get lunch out to 1700 people?
S3 (18:14):
Well, it's um, it's a big number. Uh, we do
the SAG Awards over here, and that's 1200. Um, but
it's a bit more controlled. You know, the longest lunch,
of course, is is in a different location each year. So, um,
it's not like you've got that institutional knowledge as to
exactly how to work a space or work a, you know,
(18:34):
so you have to have an incredible team. That's the
first thing, right? You need great ingredients and incredible team.
Otherwise you just can't do it. Uh, and then you
need to really segment that out and be like, all right.
You kind of replicate in kitchens across the lunch because
one kitchen can't possibly serve that many plates fast enough.
So we'll have team leaders who are sort of executing
(18:57):
little sections of that lunch, um, so we can drop
it all together. Um, and it'll all be super consistent
and delicious. But that that's years of practice. Yeah.
S2 (19:06):
Are there any dishes that are absolute no goes when
you're feeding that many people?
S3 (19:11):
Oh, look, I think the, the easy choice is to
try and take care of everyone's allergies and Dietary preferences,
which is not to do that. Actually, I'd rather still
be kind of unique and interesting, and hopefully our food is, um,
something that everyone wants to come to. Um, and if
(19:33):
it's not, we get it. And that's alright, you know?
But I never like to just do generic stuff and
be like, all right, you see it quite often now,
and I think it's because there are so many more allergies, um,
and preferences. So people tend to say, well, let's make
the vegetarian gluten free. Actually, let's make it vegan, gluten free,
dairy free. And then it just kind of becomes this homogenous, homogenized.
(19:57):
It's back when when we had no creativity around plant
based dining. And you'd always like the poor veggies out there.
They'd go out for dinner and they'd get an artichoke
salad or an avocado and avocado salad and then a risotto.
And that was that, you know, and it was kind
of like always the same option. so I always try
(20:18):
and be more inventive with the menu. Of course you
get some pushback. Sometimes clients are like, are you crazy?
We can't serve that to 1700 people. But Melbourne food
and wine is all about gastronomy. So? So they're on board.
S2 (20:29):
Are you allowed to tell us anything you'll be cooking?
S3 (20:31):
No I'm not.
S2 (20:32):
Top secret?
S3 (20:33):
It's top secret.
S2 (20:34):
Wow.
S3 (20:35):
Well, I don't know. I'm not sure whether they've published
the menu or not, but I might get in trouble
if I. If I say the wrong thing.
S2 (20:41):
Okay, we're having some really sort of interesting discussions and
debates in Australian hospitality at the moment. Um, some of
it is around kitchen culture, um, and safety at work
and things like that. Um, another really interesting discussion has been, um,
some of the comments made by one of our most
(21:01):
famous chefs, Ben Surey of Attica, who has spoken out
quite strongly against restaurant critics. Um, he feels that the
system is corrupt and that most restaurant critics are not
qualified to judge the food of chefs with as much
experience as himself. What do you think about the role
that critics can play in today's system where we've got reviews,
(21:24):
there's Google ratings, there's TikTok creators, right? Where where does
the restaurant critic fit into that?
S3 (21:30):
God, it's such a good question. It's such an interesting debate.
You know, like I mentioned, I work for Marco Pierre White,
and I watched him spend a massive chunk of his
life in pursuit of Michelin stars. You know, like, no
two bones about it. Like, that was our goal. We
had to be excellent so that we were rated really well. Um,
and then I think he went full circle with it
(21:52):
and was like, they don't know as much as we do.
Why should we be judged by them? You know, and
there's real validity in that, you know, but then it's
also commentary. And I know food critics that are brilliant
at their job and have incredible insights and Intel, and
they have a beautiful way of writing about it. And Ultimately,
(22:13):
if you're not open to criticism, then you're not open
to being spoken about, you know? And I think that
that's really important because that's how your restaurant gets busy.
First of all, it's word of mouth. You know, if
you guess, like their experience, they go out into the
world and they tell people about it and they tell
their coworkers and their friends and their family. I had
(22:34):
a great meal. And then hopefully those people come to you.
That's how we thrive. Um, that's how we die as well.
If we're no good and we do, we give people
bad experiences. They also go and talk about it. So
I'm totally open to being reviewed. I get Ben's point
because sometimes you get reviewed. I remember doing a dish
when I worked in London, and I made a sauce
(22:56):
that I served with tagliatelle from the head of the langoustines.
So I took the langoustine heads and I put them
in a blender, and then I roasted it, and I
deglazed it with Madeira and brandy, and then I covered
it in a shellfish stock that I'd made separately, and
I reduced it down, and it came out like this
beautifully pink flavor of crustacea. And I served it with
(23:19):
langoustine tails and the, um, tagliatelle.
S2 (23:23):
And I and langoustines are a specific type of prawn. Right? Prawn?
S3 (23:27):
Yeah. Scampi. Um, so the next day I read the
review and he spoke about the it was a very
positive review, but he spoke about the lightly centred tomato
sauce that was served with. And I was like, tomatoes,
it's not a tomato that goes near that sauce. So
sometimes you're now had that been a slating review where
(23:49):
he says it was wrong and he used tomatoes out
of season, then I probably read that and want to
burn the newspaper because you're like, you don't know what
you're talking about, right? So I totally get both sides
of it. And it's, um, it's not easy. I watched
what Ben did. Ben's a dear friend of mine, and
I respect him. Um. And I really respect someone that's
(24:10):
he's gone through the highs and the lows as well. Right.
We've all gone through the lows. Not many of us
get to the highs that Ben had. So to be
able to come out and be like, you know what,
check your check your ego at the door, do a
good job. Let your customers decide. Don't get all wound
up in the awards. I appreciate that that perspective.
S2 (24:29):
Yeah, right. Yeah. Have you ever had any reviews that
have really crushed you or, um, knocked knocked your sense
of self or sense of what you were doing?
S3 (24:42):
Um, God, I don't know that. I've read a review
that's crushed me. Um, I've probably disagreed with some of them. Um,
good and bad. Right. I just gave you an example
of one that I was left going, oh, my God,
I actually can't take the credit for anything you're saying
because you actually didn't even get it, you know? Um,
(25:02):
and I'm glad that that was in London and I
don't work there anymore because I can talk openly about it.
But the truth is, if that was in L.A. and
that critic was working for a publication that I lived
in fear of, then I probably wouldn't tell the story.
And that's garbage you should be able to tell, you
know that. So but like I said, I know some
(25:22):
incredible food critics that I've learned a lot from over
the years, um, that have done a beautiful job. And
I've loved reading their pieces, you know. So it's it's
a hard one.
S2 (25:33):
Yeah. We're living through very interesting times. Do we need
a michelin Guide in Australia? You've worked with one and
without one in LA as it's come and gone over
the years. What's your feeling on the role that it
can play?
S3 (25:46):
The incredible thing about the Michelin Guide is it's reliable
and it's consistent. Right. So I don't know that I've
ever gone into a one Michelin star restaurant and been
like that did not deserve the star or a two star.
And been like, that was only a one star. It's
very like clear Likelier that they do their job properly. Um, now,
(26:08):
if you're a competitive person like me, I love it
because I don't want to lose a star. I want
to get a, you know, I, I want to know
where I'm at. If I'm playing sport, I want to
play to win. I don't want to not keep score.
I want, I want to, I want to win. So
I think it's incredibly positive. It's also great. What I've
(26:29):
sort of really noticed is it's kind of almost a
gentle education of the diner to know what's what and
where things are at. You know, and I think that
you see the dining public really responding to it. You know,
so so I think that's that's cool. The one thing
that makes me pause ever so slightly is when I
did Maude, it was very experimental. And like I said,
(26:52):
we did one ingredient, all these different menus. And then
if I had have had that idea back when the
Michelin Guide was in existence in LA, it wasn't. When
I started, I might have thought to myself, God, it's
too inconsistent for the guy to judge or take seriously.
So I don't know whether you have that same level
of freedom as a chef to be like, I'll just
(27:14):
try anything. Um, but is that a good thing or
a bad thing? I don't know that it's a bad thing,
I don't know. I love the guide. I think they
do a wonderful job. I'll always respect it. Um, I
feel very blessed to have been included in it and
to won stars in both my restaurants and, um. Yeah,
I think it'd be great for Australia. You know, the
(27:36):
thing that I think the most about, sorry, you've touched
on something that gets me going. I don't know that
the rest of the world understands how fantastic Australian food is,
and I'm constantly talking about it and I'm constantly explaining
it to people, but I don't think they get it
when they go that people are like, wow, the food's
really good. And because of that response, I'm like, yeah,
(27:57):
people don't appreciate us for what we can do. um,
back there. And I think the guide would help explain
that to people.
S2 (28:05):
Yeah, right. So put putting Australian restaurants more on a
world stage.
S3 (28:10):
Yeah, yeah. For sure.
S2 (28:12):
If there's one thing that you wish people paid more
attention to when they were shopping for food, what would
it be?
S3 (28:19):
Oh. Good question. Um, I think the thing that we
haven't really wrapped our heads around as a society is
how much food we waste. Um, and that's at every stage, right?
We waste food in the farm because maybe it doesn't
fit perfectly into the parameters. It's slightly too big, slightly
too small, has a tiny bit of damage from some hail,
(28:40):
but hasn't changed the flavour. So anyway, there's waste there.
There's waste in the store because, you know, we put
things out. We hope that people come to buy them,
but if they don't get there fast enough, we're like,
we can't leave it out too long. And then, of course,
as a shopper, we're all guilty of this. You look
in your fridge at the end of the week and
you're like, I never made it to those zucchinis or
I never got to those carrots. So I think especially
(29:03):
in moments where the cost of living is nuts and it's, um,
it's a real challenge for families. I think being super
mindful about what we're going to, what we're buying and
how we're going to use it. Having that plan in
place before you actually, um, get your food is important
or go buy, be inspired by the season, whatever. Grab it,
(29:23):
but then come home and have a real plan for
it and have a bit of a back up plan
as well. I always make a soup at the end
of every week, and everything in my crisper goes in it,
and it's a delicious soup. My kids have no idea
they're eating leftovers, but I think if you're and it's
also just the responsible thing to do, we all talk
about the environment. We waste almost half of what we grow,
(29:45):
and if we were to cut back on that substantially,
we would have literally if we wasted nothing, we'd have
half the environmental footprint than we have with with food. So, um,
there's lots of reasons to to really think that through. Um,
when you do your shopping.
S2 (30:00):
All right. Great. Thank you. Good tips there, Curtis. And
yeah thanks. It's been a great chat.
S3 (30:05):
Lovely chatting to you. It's fun.
S1 (30:08):
That was Curtis Stone speaking with Good Food restaurant editor
Emma Briney on the latest Good Weekend talks. If you
enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate and comment
wherever you get your podcasts and keep tuning in for
more compelling conversations. Good Weekend Talks is brought to you
by the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age proud newsrooms
powered by subscriptions to support independent journalism. Search, subscribe Sydney
(30:33):
Morning Herald or The Age? This episode of Good Weekend
Talks is produced by Conrad Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery,
with technical assistance from Cormac Lally. Our executive producer is
Tami Mills. Tom McKendrick is head of audio. And Greg
Callahan is the acting editor of Good Weekend.
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