October 24, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode, we speak to Ita Buttrose. The former editor, radio broadcaster, TV host and chair of the ABC has long described herself simply as a "journalist" – but that single word doesn't sum up the range of the 83-year-old's six-decade career. Here, the media trailblazer talks to us about being hissed at in testosterone-fuelled newsrooms, and the excitement of launching a magazine during a time of dynamic cultural change. She also discusses why juggling career and family may be more challenging for women now than 40 years ago, and why young men today are struggling to define new roles. Finally, she opens up about her mobility challenges in old age and her new book, Unapologetically Ita, in a wide-ranging conversation with Good Weekend senior writer Greg Callaghan.
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S1 (00:13):
Hi, I'm Conrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald
and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine
for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from
sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week,
you can download new episodes in which top journalists from
across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive
(00:34):
stories of the day. In this episode, we speak to
Ita Buttrose, the former newspaper and magazine editor, radio broadcaster,
television host and chair of the ABC, has long described
herself simply as a journalist. But that single word doesn't
sum up the range of the 83 year old's six
decade career. The media trailblazer talks to us today about
(00:56):
being his stat in the testosterone fuelled fueled newsrooms of
The Daily Telegraph and The Sunday Telegraph. As the first
female editor of those papers, and the excitement of launching
Cleo magazine in 1972 at a time of dynamic cultural
change in Australia. She also discusses why juggling career and
family may be more challenging for women now than 30
(01:18):
or 40 years ago, and why some young men today
are struggling to define new roles. For what it's worth,
she also firmly believes that the boardrooms of Australia are
still male, pale and stale. Finally, Buttrose opens up about
her mobility challenges in old age, and her new book,
Unapologetically Iter and hosting this discussion is the author of
(01:40):
our Buttrose profile and cover story this week. No apologies
and that's good weekend, senior writer Greg Callaghan.
S2 (01:49):
Thank you, Conrad, and welcome Ida.
S3 (01:51):
Thank you.
S2 (01:52):
Now, looking at your astonishing career over six decades, it's
hard to know where to start. But was there a
single moment, a kind of game changing moment when you
realized for the first time you were famous?
S3 (02:07):
No. Not really. It was my dad. It was my
father that told me I was famous. I think I'd
been editor of the weekly for maybe two years, and
I was invited to Bega. And the town turned out
a lot of people in the town turned out to
welcome me, and they really treated me. They gave me
a fantastic day, and I went home and told dad
(02:30):
all about it. And he said to me, you're famous.
And that's the first idea that I had that I
might be.
S2 (02:38):
Isn't that fantastic that it came from your dad? That
must have been a a nice moment. Now, you went
from being editor in chief of the Australian Women's Weekly
and Cleo at um, ACP, Australian Consolidated Press, and at
the time, still the, um, it's the home of women's magazines,
basically the headquarters of women's magazines. And you went from
(03:00):
there to being editor in chief of the Daily Telegraph
and the Sunday Telegraph at News Limited, which was pretty
much a bloke's regime then. Very testosterone fuelled, wasn't it?
S3 (03:12):
Absolutely, absolutely. And I was a bit of shock, I think,
because I went from a company where women were encouraged
to one where we were an unknown factor, really. They'd
never had a woman in the hierarchy before. They'd never
had a woman editor in chief of any of the newspapers,
never had a woman editor either. And so there was
(03:35):
there was some concern about what I would be like.
I remember that I remember I heard that I wouldn't
go to the pub and drink with them and I
don't I didn't because I don't I don't go to
the pub and drink. And maybe that's because we were
prohibited for so long. We women to go to the
pub and have a drink. But I don't know what
(03:57):
it was. But it's not my style, and I don't
think I have to be one of the blokes to
be successful.
S2 (04:02):
Indeed. Now I read in one story you have to
correct this. If it's not true that once when you
were crossing the the floor that some of the blokes
his statue, was it as bad as that?
S3 (04:13):
No, not some of the blokes. The whole room hissed
at me. Yes. If I'd done something that they didn't
agree with, or if there was a strike running or,
or some, some argument running between the troops, as we
used to call them, and management. Yes, they would hiss
at me as I walked through the fourth floor. And,
you know, it's very unnerving when people do that to
(04:35):
you and you pretend you don't hear, but you do
hear and you pretend you don't care, but you do care.
S2 (04:42):
Do you reckon they would have done that if you'd
been a bloke?
S3 (04:44):
I'll never know, will I?
S2 (04:46):
Mm. Now, I spoke to a clutch of people for
our good weekend story. Um, and, um, the two words
that really kept popping up, and now are kind of surprising.
Words for me were loyal and generous because the qualities
that we associate with the legendary Ita Buttrose, um, are authoritative. Yes. Tough? Yes.
(05:08):
Super skilled? Yes. But. But loyal. Generous. Do you see
yourself in that form?
S3 (05:14):
I do, I think I am a generous person. In fact,
my father used to say I was overly generous. He
said I'd give people the shirt off my back if
they needed it. That's dad's summing up of the situation.
But loyalty? Yes, of course. I'm always loyal to people
and I'm loyal to the people that work for me.
And if you if you want loyalty in return, you
(05:37):
have to be loyal yourself. You can't buy it. You
have to earn it.
S2 (05:42):
Indeed. And, um, I guess that was demonstrated in the
fact that there are a whole group of, um, staff
members who followed you from job to job over the years.
If I look at some of the names, um, led
by maybe, perhaps Ainsley Cahill. Um, I hope I'm pronouncing
that correctly.
S3 (05:58):
No you didn't. It's Karl Ainsley.
S2 (06:01):
Karl, I beg your pardon? Okay, well, there are quite
a few people that followed you from job to job, from, um,
ACP to News Limited, from News Limited to Capricorn Publishing,
where you established your own magazine. So, um, that was
about having a band of loyal troops.
S3 (06:20):
Well, we liked working together, and I think I respected them,
and I think they respected me.
S2 (06:24):
We saw another very playful, um, showbiz side of your
character when you were co-hosting studio ten and you did, um,
the Waltzing Matilda. Um, after a mouthful of helium, you
recreated the the romance novel covers with, um, comedian Ash Williams.
And I'm hoping we're going to have space in the
(06:45):
story to reproduce a still from from one from one
of those, um, cameos because they're hilarious. If not, um,
anybody listening should go online and just put studio ten
Ita Buttrose romance covers into a search engine. Was it
good fun?
S3 (07:02):
Yes it was. It was fantastic fun. I loved being
on studio ten. We did all sorts of crazy things.
S2 (07:09):
You certainly did. And television was, um, wasn't new to
you by this stage, but it, um, it was something
you'd always wanted to do.
S3 (07:17):
Well, I always wanted to host my own program, but
but it didn't happen, so I thought, oh, well, it's
just not meant to be. I'll just carry on and
do do do other things. And then out of the blue,
I was approached and asked if I'd host studio ten,
and I thought, well, my and I was 70 when
I was approached. And I thought, well, you can achieve
(07:39):
your goals. You just have to wait and be patient.
And and we had a lot of fun. We had
a lot of fun on that program.
S2 (07:47):
What was one of your more fun moments?
S3 (07:49):
The other panelists? Regular panelists were Joe Hildebrand, Sarah Harris,
and Jessica Rowe. And we used to try and stir
Joe Hildebrand. And it was easy enough to do this.
We we girls would just gang up and then he'd
react and we'd think, got him, got him. And we
used to we used to love doing that to Joe.
(08:11):
And if he'd said to me, I can't believe you
just said that, I knew I really got him.
S2 (08:18):
You got him where he lived. You also lived in
London in the late 60s for a while. With your
husband of the time, Alistair. And, um, that was a
time when London was really swinging. What was that? What
was that like being at, uh, in London at that time?
S3 (08:36):
It was fantastic. It was a great time to be
in London because, you know, I, I, I'd only grown
up in Australia, and I did spend a few years
of my childhood in the States with dad and mum,
but I was very young then, and so suddenly there
I was in London and I arrived with my hair
(08:56):
done up in what was then called a beehive. And
I still wore gloves and the girls on the subway.
I was a subeditor, so the girls on the subway
said I could hear them saying, oh, look, she wears gloves.
So I got rid of the gloves and then, oh, look,
she's got hairpins in her hair. So I took the
hairpins out and let my hair down. And then I
(09:19):
took my hems up because the miniskirt was in, and,
you know, everything was everything was going then. And my
husband and I, we loved the theatre, we loved the opera,
we loved the ballet. So we spent most of our
money on going to opera and ballet at Covent Garden.
And we saw we we reckoned we'd recognize the cast
(09:41):
from the, from the sides because we couldn't afford the
best seats, but we afforded the best seats that we
could on our, on our budget. So we always know
the profile, but we'd never know them. Front on. It
was the most fantastic time to be in London. Everything
was happening.
S2 (09:59):
You mentioned just a moment ago about being in America with,
with with your folks. Uh, and there was a quite
a cute story you told me when, when we spoke
about being a little girl in Los Angeles. And, um,
there was talk of. Can you tell us that story? Well.
S3 (10:18):
There was a Hollywood person there, and they said to
Mum and Dad, you should have that little girl tested
because she should she should be in Hollywood. And they didn't.
I mean, I didn't know this was all going on.
I didn't learn about this until I was much older,
and mum and dad didn't want that kind of life
for me. So I wasn't tested. And I used to
(10:40):
say to them, when I was old enough, you robbed
me of being a Hollywood star. You should have let
me be tested. And I've always I've always wanted to.
I think I've always had this yearning to be on
the stage. But maybe making speeches is because when you
make a speech and I've made a lot of them,
(11:01):
it's it's a performance. It's a performance if you're doing
them well. And so then maybe, maybe that's my stage.
S2 (11:09):
Well, it's not as if you've underachieved either, so I
wouldn't have too many regrets about that. Uh, when you, um,
when you came back to Australia and then you went
on to launch Cleo magazine in 72. Now, this was
an incredible time in Australia as well. You went from
the Swinging London of the 60s to, um, to an
Australia that was undergoing quite significant change with Gough Whitlam
(11:34):
had just been elected. Um, and this was ushering in
a period of real change. It was a very change filled,
exciting decade for you, wasn't it?
S3 (11:44):
It was. It was because Gough Whitlam, First of all,
he stood on us. All. All of us. A patriotism
that I don't think we were aware we had. And
he also told young people like me that I didn't
have to go overseas to make my name. I could
make my name in Australia. And and he was right.
And I, I didn't go overseas to make my name.
(12:06):
I've made it here in Australia. Up until then, most
Australians who wanted to be somewhere or other in their
careers used to go to London because that was what
you did. So first of all, he encouraged us to
make our name in Australia, and he moved very quickly
because in the 70s, prior to Gough, there was no
(12:28):
no fault divorce, no maternity leave. There was a luxury
tax on contraceptives, 27.5%, which made them very expensive. There
was no female representation in the House of Representatives in Canberra.
You can't believe. And I couldn't open a charge account at, say,
at David Jones without my husband's signature. So all of
(12:49):
these things changed when Gough Whitlam became the Prime minister.
S2 (12:52):
It was an extraordinary time, wasn't it? And we forget
how much social attitudes, social mores our culture has changed
in in what is not a terribly long stretch of history. Really? No. Um,
but do you think young women today have any real
understanding of how much things have changed, indeed improved for
(13:17):
women since the early 70s?
S3 (13:19):
No, I don't no, I don't, because I don't think
they look back and and see how repressed we were
and we were repressed. We weren't even even our education
wasn't considered important. After all, we were going to get
married and have children and we wouldn't be in the workforce.
So there's no point in educating us. You know everything
(13:40):
about us. We were put in our place and we
expect to stay there. And you look at young women today,
and I think they'd be surprised to see how far
we've come.
S2 (13:52):
I think they'd be shocked. Really. I think they'd be.
It would be an amazing, um, insightful lesson to see
how much times have changed. You've spoken about working women
for decades, and you have made some really interesting observations
about what it's like for career women and so forth.
(14:14):
But I'd just like to ask one question, and that is, um,
is do you reckon it's harder for women today working
and trying to raise a family than, say, when you
were young and had a young family?
S3 (14:30):
Yes and no. I think social media, I think I
think social media has changed it because when I finished work,
usually at 6 or 7 when I was doing magazines,
but later it would be much later than that. Um,
work was over. Nobody could send me a text or
(14:51):
send me an email. You know, I went home and
that was it. Except the editor of the Daily Telegraph,
King Watson, could always find me. Even he would find
me at 1 a.m. in the morning if he wanted to.
So apart from Mr. Watson, nobody else. Nobody else disturbed me.
And nowadays, everyone's. You know, they're on their phone 24
(15:14):
over seven. They're texting. They they answer the phones and
they talk to people. And I think that's what's made
it more difficult. There's no cut off time, no definite
cut off time. And so you have to be very
strong I think if you're a modern younger worker, male
or female. Turn the phone off. Just tell the phone. Tell.
(15:37):
Tell people you're not available and turn the rotten thing off.
S2 (15:49):
You've also been a very big advocate for women and
particularly young women. But I'd like to talk to you
about young men because you were one of the very
first people. Now, I've done some research, um, that talking
about young men. And I guess that came from having
a son. But you talked about this is going back
25 years ago, long before it was fashionable to talk
(16:13):
about men. Really. And, you know, the current hot topic is,
of course, the crisis of young masculinity. But you were
talking about how it was harder for young men because
their roles weren't clearly defined. And possibly that scenario has
got more pronounced, um, in the decades since you said that.
(16:37):
So what are your observations of young men now?
S3 (16:41):
I think they're still struggling to find their way and
and I don't I don't know if they're going to
if they're going to find it because their role was
clearly defined, as was ours. And then women's liberation changed
women's roles, and we suddenly realized that we could voice
our objection to things and put our hand up and say,
(17:03):
I want to do that or admit to having ambition.
And there are a lot of independent, younger women who
don't don't feel the need, as I understand it, to
even get married or even find a relationship or have children. Now,
when I was a young woman, um, I never thought I'd.
(17:26):
I wouldn't have children. I always wanted to have children.
And I don't see that having children have spoiled my
life in any way. In fact, it's enriched my life.
And I sometimes read these articles about younger women and
men who say, oh no, having children would spoil our lives,
(17:46):
you know? So we'll get a dog. A dog is
a great a great friend, but it's not a substitute
for children. And I think when you get older and
you look back, you would you might regret not having children.
Because at the end of the day, when you're sitting
in your rocking chair, you're not going to be thinking
(18:08):
about a boardroom coup or something you did at the office.
You're going to want your family around you. And I
think it's better if that family includes children, but that's
my view, and I don't I don't expect everyone to
share it. But I think I think young men need
a bit more confidence. They need a bit more confidence
(18:29):
in their role and to realise that they're contributors to
society as well, and that they need to do it
with women. You know, they it's it's not something you
do on your own. You do it in a partnership.
You don't necessarily have to get married, but it's good
if you hang out together and exchange views.
S2 (18:51):
Yes. And again, you've been talking on that theme for
a long time, but, um, it's, um, you know, it's
an important subject. And, um, we tend to, um, discuss
these issues in terms of men's issues and women's issues
instead of instead of what you've just said. And that
is for men and women to be talking together and,
and having a real kind of conversation. Now, you were
(19:14):
in the vanguard of women being admitted to the boardroom.
You were, um, you were on the board of ACP
right back in 1974. I'm not sure if you were
the the first woman on the board in 74 and ACP,
but Dorothy.
S3 (19:28):
Dorothy Drain, who was the editor of the Women's Weekly.
Then she and I were the first women to join
the board. And there was a small paragraph in The
Sun newspaper Paper saying men on boards and Dorothy and
I were included in that.
S2 (19:48):
That's amazing. This is 1974. It's not 1954. It's amazing. Um,
so in your view, a board still too male dominated
and the classic term is male, pale and stale, that is,
male dominated, Anglo-Saxon, often middle aged. Uh, is this still
a problem today?
S3 (20:08):
Well, I don't think it reflects the diversity of our
multicultural system. Um, I don't think it lacks that representation.
I think it lacks First Nations representation. I think it
lacks people with a disability representation and probably LGBTQ plus
people as well. So during my time as chair of
(20:29):
the ABC, I did suggest a couple of times some
Asian board directors, but they didn't get up. And so
even the government needs to think about what makes up Australia.
And it's not just white men and women. It's a
whole diverse range of people from different cultures. And if
(20:53):
we're going to reach them properly, if we're going to
run their businesses properly, we need representation from all of
these people on our boards. It's time for an overhaul.
S2 (21:04):
While you were chair of the ABC, you also instrumental
in leading the move to Parramatta as well. Why was that?
S3 (21:12):
Well, I've, I knew I knew the government was interested
in diversifying a bit, a bit. Um, and I just
after you've been at Ultimo, which is the ABC headquarters,
you realise you're in a little ghetto. I mean, that's
that's a ghetto. And I said to David Anderson, the
(21:33):
then managing director, David, we're in a ghetto. We need
to move some people out of here. And I'd worked
in Parramatta before when I was hosting a radio show
at Tookey. And I thought Parramatta was the ideal place
for us to go in the first instance. And, and
so I when Paul Fletcher, the then communications minister, asked
(21:54):
me what was on my mind, I said, I'm thinking
of moving 300 people out of Ultimo to Parramatta. And
so that we can represent the community better than we do.
And there's lots of stories in the West. I don't
need to tell you that. We all know those stories
in the West. And there's lots of people in the
western suburbs who would like to work at the ABC.
(22:17):
And so what we've done by moving the ABC to
a broadcast facility at Parramatta is that we've established a base.
And I don't know what's going on there now, but
the plan was to move some other ones, you know,
move further out, open some other officers perhaps at Liverpool,
(22:37):
and we talked about Newcastle and make better use of
the interstate offices, all of which are very well equipped
and are underused in my opinion.
S2 (22:48):
And would also, of course, feed into that diversity you've
just spoken to, getting to the, you know, the, the,
the real heart of Australia now. Um, now you open up, um,
on quite a number of issues in your new book,
unapologetically Iter, I think, is this sure 14th book, is
it your 12th book? Where are we up to?
S3 (23:10):
It's, uh, I think it's my 12th, 12th book.
S2 (23:15):
Um, well, congratulations. It's a good read. It's a strong read.
It's it's full of attitude. It is unapologetically Ita Buttrose. Um,
but you which is, which is great. Um, now you
talk about or you write about rather the challenges of
getting older and you've had your own, um, your own
(23:36):
journey here, as they say now, um, you had back
surgery in, in 2021, and you've developed a condition that
was diagnosed finally as isolated gait disorder. Can you explain
to us what that actually is?
S3 (23:53):
I wish I knew, um, it was originally described as
frozen gait disorder, which is a symptom of Parkinson's disease,
but I don't have Parkinson's, so. And I haven't developed
any further symptoms so that the specialist that then now
calls it an isolated gait disorder. So what it means is,
(24:16):
as far as I could tell, that I don't walk
very well and that my walking is getting harder and
harder for me to do. And so, um, that's why
I use a wheelchair quite often now, and I don't,
I don't know where it's going. I saw the specialist
Lost just a couple of weeks ago. And he they
(24:37):
go through all these questions. How's your swallowing? How's your eyesight?
How's this? How's that? You say fine, fine, fine, fine.
And he and then we just chat and I said,
and then I say, well, I'll see you in six months,
will I? And he said, yes, I'll look forward to it.
And I leave exactly as I was when I arrived.
(24:57):
So there doesn't seem to be anything I can do
for it. There's no known cure, and as far as
I know, there's not enough research going on into gait
disorders generally. And I'm hoping that somewhere in the world
there's a researcher doing something wonderful with gait disorders. I mean,
it's to do with the brain not connecting with the feet.
(25:21):
You know, it's not sending a message and not sending
the right sort of message. That's layman's terms. So there's
probably a medical way of describing it, but something's not
connecting in some remote part of my brain. So minuscule,
says the doctor, that we can't see it. It's so
minuscule that we can't see what's going on. So, as
(25:46):
my GP said, I'm a medical curiosity. And he said,
you don't want to be that and I don't want
to be that, but I think I am indeed.
S2 (25:54):
And you're getting physiotherapy and various exercise treatments.
S3 (26:00):
Oh yes. I go to rehab three times a week.
I do an hour of exercise with them, and I
have a whole stack of exercises that I do myself
and their neuro physicists, physiotherapists. So it's brain connected and
they're very good and they just keep encouraging me to
(26:20):
keep exercising. That's the only thing that I've been recommended
that I do.
S2 (26:24):
And you seem to be as busy as ever. I
went to see you at one speech for the, um,
Macular Disease Zs. Um, Association. And you've got another one
coming up, um, at Macquarie University, I believe next month.
You um from.
S3 (26:40):
Yes I.
S2 (26:41):
Do yeah. You've got a lot of, um, engagements. You
seem to be pretty busy.
S3 (26:46):
I'm busy enough. I'm not as busy as I was,
but I wouldn't want to be as busy as I was.
I mean, I've been working for more than 65 years,
I think. I think I'm just. I think I'm inclined
to have some time off.
S2 (26:59):
Indeed. And 15 years old. You started working.
S3 (27:03):
Yeah.
S2 (27:03):
So that's that's that's a long stretch. Ida, have you
had many long holidays did you have during that fantastic
stretch of, um, career opportunities and that you had, did
you have, um, like long holidays at any point? Because
I know you took your kids away quite a bit, so.
(27:24):
But did you actually have like a long break six weeks?
S3 (27:27):
No, I didn't, no I didn't. Maybe maybe three weeks
or four weeks at maximum. Um, and yes, I was
offered lots of trips, but I usually gave them to
the staff because I couldn't. I couldn't take them because
I was busy, busy running, running, whatever empire I was
running at the time. And I don't feel I've missed
(27:49):
out on anything, though as I've got older, I've I've
had a bit more time to go travelling. And, you know,
my brother was asking me the other day, where else
do I want to go? I don't, I don't think
there's anywhere else I do want to go that I
haven't seen, and I'm quite happy to stay in Australia. Now.
S2 (28:09):
You said something very wise to me when I, when
I spoke to you about about job opportunities and, um,
it was a very simple thing, but I think it's very,
very true. And that is, no one will know what
your dream is. Nobody will know what you want until
you put your hand up. A lot of people don't
(28:31):
put their hand up either, because they're, um, uh, lack
confidence or because they, um, just don't think anybody's going
to take them seriously or they don't think they have
a chance. You've always put your hand up, haven't you?
S3 (28:46):
Yes, I have. And I think that's part of the
the attraction of growing up with brothers. If you didn't
put your hand up, you miss out. I mean, I
didn't put my hand up for mashed potatoes. My brothers
would eat them all. So I'm. I'm. I know that's
not ambition, but it was their ambition to eat all mine.
(29:09):
But you've got to volunteer. You've got to take a risk.
And because you're only here once, I think we spend
too much time trying to do what everybody else expects
us to do. And I think women are more guilty
than that of that. Than men, perhaps. But. But in
your heart, we all have dreams of what we want
(29:30):
to do. I'm sure of that. And you have to
listen to that sometimes. And you have to give in
to it and think, well, I'm only here once. I
think I'll have a go at that. If you fail,
it doesn't matter. It's alright to fail at some things.
You just pick yourself up and find another dream.
S2 (29:50):
And you were. You weren't treated that kindly when item
magazine closed and it did run for six years, which
is a pretty decent run for a magazine. It reached
a pretty good circulation. And, um, you know, you're very
nobly made sure that everybody was paid. You didn't declare bankruptcy,
and it would have been a very hard time for
you because you had, you know, a lot of people
(30:12):
to pay off. But, um, that.
S3 (30:15):
Was a it was an awful time.
S2 (30:18):
How did how long did it take you to sort
of get over that? Because the media were kind of
using words like eaters Last stand and sort of saying, you're,
you know, after a run of. After a run of
all these expanding successes over the years, you'd finally stumbled
and fell. As we know, the media can be pretty cruel.
But you know, you actually went on to have a
(30:39):
spectacular second career. Um, but as everybody knows, from, from
that point onwards in, in television, radio, um, where does
it where does it end? And of course, with the ABC. But, um, well,
how did you deal with that? Um, initial sort of
few months afterwards?
S3 (30:59):
Well, you, you go off and grieve and then you think,
no one's going to pick me up, I've got to
pick myself up. And so I, I have these little
chats with myself. Pick yourself up. No one else is
going to pick you up. And so you you pick
yourself up and you think, well, what else can I do?
And you just you just look for the opportunities because
(31:23):
you again, I go back to what I said. you
only here once. You can't waste a moment. And you know.
So something I did didn't work. It survived six years.
It survived the recession we had to have which really
which was really crippling. And it was so hard, so
(31:45):
hard to get advertising during the recession. We had to have.
But you have to believe in yourself. If you don't
believe in yourself, no one else will. You have to
believe in yourself, and I believe in myself.
S2 (31:59):
You've got five grandkids and I think they're all teenagers now,
aren't they?
S3 (32:04):
Yes, Jack, the youngest one, turned 13 last week.
S2 (32:08):
Oh, really? Okay, so you've got five teenage grandkids. So
that sounds like, um, a handful.
S3 (32:15):
Oh. They're lovely. I adore them all. And two of
them are driving. Two of them have their p plates.
One of them is on LS and the other two
are too young yet. So one of them rang me
the other day and said, grandma, I said, yes, would
you sell me your car? I said, well, I'm not
(32:36):
thinking of selling it, Sammy, but when you do, would
you sell it to me? I said, I don't think
you can afford it, but would you sell it to
me if I could afford it? And I said, well,
if you talk to your parents, that's what you always do.
When it gets too tricky, you send them back to
their parents or the school counsellor. Both of them very
(32:58):
useful excuses.
S2 (33:01):
That's that's a great comeback. It sounds like Sammy is
a chip off the old block. Talk about putting putting
your hand up after. It's been a delight talking to you.
We could talk for hours. How amazing your your career is. Um,
but again, we are restricted by time, so thank you
very much.
S3 (33:21):
I've enjoyed it. Thank you very much, Greg.
S1 (33:25):
That was Ita Buttrose, the media trailblazer and icon, now
83 on her very big life and six decade career.
For the latest good weekend talks. If you enjoyed this episode,
please remember to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get
your podcasts and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations.
Coming soon. Senior culture writer Kerry O'Brien chats with Scottish
(33:48):
historian William Dalrymple ahead of his speaking tour Down Under.
Good Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney
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The Age? This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced
by Konrad Marshall, with technical assistance from Josh towers and
(34:10):
editing from Tim Mummery. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills.
Tom McKendrick is head of audio and Melissa Stevens is
the editor of Good Weekend.
Hi, I'm Conrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald
and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine
for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from
sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week,
you can download new episodes in which top journalists from
across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive
(00:34):
stories of the day. In this episode, we speak to
Ita Buttrose, the former newspaper and magazine editor, radio broadcaster,
television host and chair of the ABC, has long described
herself simply as a journalist. But that single word doesn't
sum up the range of the 83 year old's six
decade career. The media trailblazer talks to us today about
(00:56):
being his stat in the testosterone fuelled fueled newsrooms of
The Daily Telegraph and The Sunday Telegraph. As the first
female editor of those papers, and the excitement of launching
Cleo magazine in 1972 at a time of dynamic cultural
change in Australia. She also discusses why juggling career and
family may be more challenging for women now than 30
(01:18):
or 40 years ago, and why some young men today
are struggling to define new roles. For what it's worth,
she also firmly believes that the boardrooms of Australia are
still male, pale and stale. Finally, Buttrose opens up about
her mobility challenges in old age, and her new book,
Unapologetically Iter and hosting this discussion is the author of
(01:40):
our Buttrose profile and cover story this week. No apologies
and that's good weekend, senior writer Greg Callaghan.
S2 (01:49):
Thank you, Conrad, and welcome Ida.
S3 (01:51):
Thank you.
S2 (01:52):
Now, looking at your astonishing career over six decades, it's
hard to know where to start. But was there a
single moment, a kind of game changing moment when you
realized for the first time you were famous?
S3 (02:07):
No. Not really. It was my dad. It was my
father that told me I was famous. I think I'd
been editor of the weekly for maybe two years, and
I was invited to Bega. And the town turned out
a lot of people in the town turned out to
welcome me, and they really treated me. They gave me
a fantastic day, and I went home and told dad
(02:30):
all about it. And he said to me, you're famous.
And that's the first idea that I had that I
might be.
S2 (02:38):
Isn't that fantastic that it came from your dad? That
must have been a a nice moment. Now, you went
from being editor in chief of the Australian Women's Weekly
and Cleo at um, ACP, Australian Consolidated Press, and at
the time, still the, um, it's the home of women's magazines,
basically the headquarters of women's magazines. And you went from
(03:00):
there to being editor in chief of the Daily Telegraph
and the Sunday Telegraph at News Limited, which was pretty
much a bloke's regime then. Very testosterone fuelled, wasn't it?
S3 (03:12):
Absolutely, absolutely. And I was a bit of shock, I think,
because I went from a company where women were encouraged
to one where we were an unknown factor, really. They'd
never had a woman in the hierarchy before. They'd never
had a woman editor in chief of any of the newspapers,
never had a woman editor either. And so there was
(03:35):
there was some concern about what I would be like.
I remember that I remember I heard that I wouldn't
go to the pub and drink with them and I
don't I didn't because I don't I don't go to
the pub and drink. And maybe that's because we were
prohibited for so long. We women to go to the
pub and have a drink. But I don't know what
(03:57):
it was. But it's not my style, and I don't
think I have to be one of the blokes to
be successful.
S2 (04:02):
Indeed. Now I read in one story you have to
correct this. If it's not true that once when you
were crossing the the floor that some of the blokes
his statue, was it as bad as that?
S3 (04:13):
No, not some of the blokes. The whole room hissed
at me. Yes. If I'd done something that they didn't
agree with, or if there was a strike running or,
or some, some argument running between the troops, as we
used to call them, and management. Yes, they would hiss
at me as I walked through the fourth floor. And,
you know, it's very unnerving when people do that to
(04:35):
you and you pretend you don't hear, but you do
hear and you pretend you don't care, but you do care.
S2 (04:42):
Do you reckon they would have done that if you'd
been a bloke?
S3 (04:44):
I'll never know, will I?
S2 (04:46):
Mm. Now, I spoke to a clutch of people for
our good weekend story. Um, and, um, the two words
that really kept popping up, and now are kind of surprising.
Words for me were loyal and generous because the qualities
that we associate with the legendary Ita Buttrose, um, are authoritative. Yes. Tough? Yes.
(05:08):
Super skilled? Yes. But. But loyal. Generous. Do you see
yourself in that form?
S3 (05:14):
I do, I think I am a generous person. In fact,
my father used to say I was overly generous. He
said I'd give people the shirt off my back if
they needed it. That's dad's summing up of the situation.
But loyalty? Yes, of course. I'm always loyal to people
and I'm loyal to the people that work for me.
And if you if you want loyalty in return, you
(05:37):
have to be loyal yourself. You can't buy it. You
have to earn it.
S2 (05:42):
Indeed. And, um, I guess that was demonstrated in the
fact that there are a whole group of, um, staff
members who followed you from job to job over the years.
If I look at some of the names, um, led
by maybe, perhaps Ainsley Cahill. Um, I hope I'm pronouncing
that correctly.
S3 (05:58):
No you didn't. It's Karl Ainsley.
S2 (06:01):
Karl, I beg your pardon? Okay, well, there are quite
a few people that followed you from job to job, from, um,
ACP to News Limited, from News Limited to Capricorn Publishing,
where you established your own magazine. So, um, that was
about having a band of loyal troops.
S3 (06:20):
Well, we liked working together, and I think I respected them,
and I think they respected me.
S2 (06:24):
We saw another very playful, um, showbiz side of your
character when you were co-hosting studio ten and you did, um,
the Waltzing Matilda. Um, after a mouthful of helium, you
recreated the the romance novel covers with, um, comedian Ash Williams.
And I'm hoping we're going to have space in the
(06:45):
story to reproduce a still from from one from one
of those, um, cameos because they're hilarious. If not, um,
anybody listening should go online and just put studio ten
Ita Buttrose romance covers into a search engine. Was it
good fun?
S3 (07:02):
Yes it was. It was fantastic fun. I loved being
on studio ten. We did all sorts of crazy things.
S2 (07:09):
You certainly did. And television was, um, wasn't new to
you by this stage, but it, um, it was something
you'd always wanted to do.
S3 (07:17):
Well, I always wanted to host my own program, but
but it didn't happen, so I thought, oh, well, it's
just not meant to be. I'll just carry on and
do do do other things. And then out of the blue,
I was approached and asked if I'd host studio ten,
and I thought, well, my and I was 70 when
I was approached. And I thought, well, you can achieve
(07:39):
your goals. You just have to wait and be patient.
And and we had a lot of fun. We had
a lot of fun on that program.
S2 (07:47):
What was one of your more fun moments?
S3 (07:49):
The other panelists? Regular panelists were Joe Hildebrand, Sarah Harris,
and Jessica Rowe. And we used to try and stir
Joe Hildebrand. And it was easy enough to do this.
We we girls would just gang up and then he'd
react and we'd think, got him, got him. And we
used to we used to love doing that to Joe.
(08:11):
And if he'd said to me, I can't believe you
just said that, I knew I really got him.
S2 (08:18):
You got him where he lived. You also lived in
London in the late 60s for a while. With your
husband of the time, Alistair. And, um, that was a
time when London was really swinging. What was that? What
was that like being at, uh, in London at that time?
S3 (08:36):
It was fantastic. It was a great time to be
in London because, you know, I, I, I'd only grown
up in Australia, and I did spend a few years
of my childhood in the States with dad and mum,
but I was very young then, and so suddenly there
I was in London and I arrived with my hair
(08:56):
done up in what was then called a beehive. And
I still wore gloves and the girls on the subway.
I was a subeditor, so the girls on the subway
said I could hear them saying, oh, look, she wears gloves.
So I got rid of the gloves and then, oh, look,
she's got hairpins in her hair. So I took the
hairpins out and let my hair down. And then I
(09:19):
took my hems up because the miniskirt was in, and,
you know, everything was everything was going then. And my
husband and I, we loved the theatre, we loved the opera,
we loved the ballet. So we spent most of our
money on going to opera and ballet at Covent Garden.
And we saw we we reckoned we'd recognize the cast
(09:41):
from the, from the sides because we couldn't afford the
best seats, but we afforded the best seats that we
could on our, on our budget. So we always know
the profile, but we'd never know them. Front on. It
was the most fantastic time to be in London. Everything
was happening.
S2 (09:59):
You mentioned just a moment ago about being in America with,
with with your folks. Uh, and there was a quite
a cute story you told me when, when we spoke
about being a little girl in Los Angeles. And, um,
there was talk of. Can you tell us that story? Well.
S3 (10:18):
There was a Hollywood person there, and they said to
Mum and Dad, you should have that little girl tested
because she should she should be in Hollywood. And they didn't.
I mean, I didn't know this was all going on.
I didn't learn about this until I was much older,
and mum and dad didn't want that kind of life
for me. So I wasn't tested. And I used to
(10:40):
say to them, when I was old enough, you robbed
me of being a Hollywood star. You should have let
me be tested. And I've always I've always wanted to.
I think I've always had this yearning to be on
the stage. But maybe making speeches is because when you
make a speech and I've made a lot of them,
(11:01):
it's it's a performance. It's a performance if you're doing
them well. And so then maybe, maybe that's my stage.
S2 (11:09):
Well, it's not as if you've underachieved either, so I
wouldn't have too many regrets about that. Uh, when you, um,
when you came back to Australia and then you went
on to launch Cleo magazine in 72. Now, this was
an incredible time in Australia as well. You went from
the Swinging London of the 60s to, um, to an
Australia that was undergoing quite significant change with Gough Whitlam
(11:34):
had just been elected. Um, and this was ushering in
a period of real change. It was a very change filled,
exciting decade for you, wasn't it?
S3 (11:44):
It was. It was because Gough Whitlam, First of all,
he stood on us. All. All of us. A patriotism
that I don't think we were aware we had. And
he also told young people like me that I didn't
have to go overseas to make my name. I could
make my name in Australia. And and he was right.
And I, I didn't go overseas to make my name.
(12:06):
I've made it here in Australia. Up until then, most
Australians who wanted to be somewhere or other in their
careers used to go to London because that was what
you did. So first of all, he encouraged us to
make our name in Australia, and he moved very quickly
because in the 70s, prior to Gough, there was no
(12:28):
no fault divorce, no maternity leave. There was a luxury
tax on contraceptives, 27.5%, which made them very expensive. There
was no female representation in the House of Representatives in Canberra.
You can't believe. And I couldn't open a charge account at, say,
at David Jones without my husband's signature. So all of
(12:49):
these things changed when Gough Whitlam became the Prime minister.
S2 (12:52):
It was an extraordinary time, wasn't it? And we forget
how much social attitudes, social mores our culture has changed
in in what is not a terribly long stretch of history. Really? No. Um,
but do you think young women today have any real
understanding of how much things have changed, indeed improved for
(13:17):
women since the early 70s?
S3 (13:19):
No, I don't no, I don't, because I don't think
they look back and and see how repressed we were
and we were repressed. We weren't even even our education
wasn't considered important. After all, we were going to get
married and have children and we wouldn't be in the workforce.
So there's no point in educating us. You know everything
(13:40):
about us. We were put in our place and we
expect to stay there. And you look at young women today,
and I think they'd be surprised to see how far
we've come.
S2 (13:52):
I think they'd be shocked. Really. I think they'd be.
It would be an amazing, um, insightful lesson to see
how much times have changed. You've spoken about working women
for decades, and you have made some really interesting observations
about what it's like for career women and so forth.
(14:14):
But I'd just like to ask one question, and that is, um,
is do you reckon it's harder for women today working
and trying to raise a family than, say, when you
were young and had a young family?
S3 (14:30):
Yes and no. I think social media, I think I
think social media has changed it because when I finished work,
usually at 6 or 7 when I was doing magazines,
but later it would be much later than that. Um,
work was over. Nobody could send me a text or
(14:51):
send me an email. You know, I went home and
that was it. Except the editor of the Daily Telegraph,
King Watson, could always find me. Even he would find
me at 1 a.m. in the morning if he wanted to.
So apart from Mr. Watson, nobody else. Nobody else disturbed me.
And nowadays, everyone's. You know, they're on their phone 24
(15:14):
over seven. They're texting. They they answer the phones and
they talk to people. And I think that's what's made
it more difficult. There's no cut off time, no definite
cut off time. And so you have to be very
strong I think if you're a modern younger worker, male
or female. Turn the phone off. Just tell the phone. Tell.
(15:37):
Tell people you're not available and turn the rotten thing off.
S2 (15:49):
You've also been a very big advocate for women and
particularly young women. But I'd like to talk to you
about young men because you were one of the very
first people. Now, I've done some research, um, that talking
about young men. And I guess that came from having
a son. But you talked about this is going back
25 years ago, long before it was fashionable to talk
(16:13):
about men. Really. And, you know, the current hot topic is,
of course, the crisis of young masculinity. But you were
talking about how it was harder for young men because
their roles weren't clearly defined. And possibly that scenario has
got more pronounced, um, in the decades since you said that.
(16:37):
So what are your observations of young men now?
S3 (16:41):
I think they're still struggling to find their way and
and I don't I don't know if they're going to
if they're going to find it because their role was
clearly defined, as was ours. And then women's liberation changed
women's roles, and we suddenly realized that we could voice
our objection to things and put our hand up and say,
(17:03):
I want to do that or admit to having ambition.
And there are a lot of independent, younger women who
don't don't feel the need, as I understand it, to
even get married or even find a relationship or have children. Now,
when I was a young woman, um, I never thought I'd.
(17:26):
I wouldn't have children. I always wanted to have children.
And I don't see that having children have spoiled my
life in any way. In fact, it's enriched my life.
And I sometimes read these articles about younger women and
men who say, oh no, having children would spoil our lives,
(17:46):
you know? So we'll get a dog. A dog is
a great a great friend, but it's not a substitute
for children. And I think when you get older and
you look back, you would you might regret not having children.
Because at the end of the day, when you're sitting
in your rocking chair, you're not going to be thinking
(18:08):
about a boardroom coup or something you did at the office.
You're going to want your family around you. And I
think it's better if that family includes children, but that's
my view, and I don't I don't expect everyone to
share it. But I think I think young men need
a bit more confidence. They need a bit more confidence
(18:29):
in their role and to realise that they're contributors to
society as well, and that they need to do it
with women. You know, they it's it's not something you
do on your own. You do it in a partnership.
You don't necessarily have to get married, but it's good
if you hang out together and exchange views.
S2 (18:51):
Yes. And again, you've been talking on that theme for
a long time, but, um, it's, um, you know, it's
an important subject. And, um, we tend to, um, discuss
these issues in terms of men's issues and women's issues
instead of instead of what you've just said. And that
is for men and women to be talking together and,
and having a real kind of conversation. Now, you were
(19:14):
in the vanguard of women being admitted to the boardroom.
You were, um, you were on the board of ACP
right back in 1974. I'm not sure if you were
the the first woman on the board in 74 and ACP,
but Dorothy.
S3 (19:28):
Dorothy Drain, who was the editor of the Women's Weekly.
Then she and I were the first women to join
the board. And there was a small paragraph in The
Sun newspaper Paper saying men on boards and Dorothy and
I were included in that.
S2 (19:48):
That's amazing. This is 1974. It's not 1954. It's amazing. Um,
so in your view, a board still too male dominated
and the classic term is male, pale and stale, that is,
male dominated, Anglo-Saxon, often middle aged. Uh, is this still
a problem today?
S3 (20:08):
Well, I don't think it reflects the diversity of our
multicultural system. Um, I don't think it lacks that representation.
I think it lacks First Nations representation. I think it
lacks people with a disability representation and probably LGBTQ plus
people as well. So during my time as chair of
(20:29):
the ABC, I did suggest a couple of times some
Asian board directors, but they didn't get up. And so
even the government needs to think about what makes up Australia.
And it's not just white men and women. It's a
whole diverse range of people from different cultures. And if
(20:53):
we're going to reach them properly, if we're going to
run their businesses properly, we need representation from all of
these people on our boards. It's time for an overhaul.
S2 (21:04):
While you were chair of the ABC, you also instrumental
in leading the move to Parramatta as well. Why was that?
S3 (21:12):
Well, I've, I knew I knew the government was interested
in diversifying a bit, a bit. Um, and I just
after you've been at Ultimo, which is the ABC headquarters,
you realise you're in a little ghetto. I mean, that's
that's a ghetto. And I said to David Anderson, the
(21:33):
then managing director, David, we're in a ghetto. We need
to move some people out of here. And I'd worked
in Parramatta before when I was hosting a radio show
at Tookey. And I thought Parramatta was the ideal place
for us to go in the first instance. And, and
so I when Paul Fletcher, the then communications minister, asked
(21:54):
me what was on my mind, I said, I'm thinking
of moving 300 people out of Ultimo to Parramatta. And
so that we can represent the community better than we do.
And there's lots of stories in the West. I don't
need to tell you that. We all know those stories
in the West. And there's lots of people in the
western suburbs who would like to work at the ABC.
(22:17):
And so what we've done by moving the ABC to
a broadcast facility at Parramatta is that we've established a base.
And I don't know what's going on there now, but
the plan was to move some other ones, you know,
move further out, open some other officers perhaps at Liverpool,
(22:37):
and we talked about Newcastle and make better use of
the interstate offices, all of which are very well equipped
and are underused in my opinion.
S2 (22:48):
And would also, of course, feed into that diversity you've
just spoken to, getting to the, you know, the, the,
the real heart of Australia now. Um, now you open up, um,
on quite a number of issues in your new book,
unapologetically Iter, I think, is this sure 14th book, is
it your 12th book? Where are we up to?
S3 (23:10):
It's, uh, I think it's my 12th, 12th book.
S2 (23:15):
Um, well, congratulations. It's a good read. It's a strong read.
It's it's full of attitude. It is unapologetically Ita Buttrose. Um,
but you which is, which is great. Um, now you
talk about or you write about rather the challenges of
getting older and you've had your own, um, your own
(23:36):
journey here, as they say now, um, you had back
surgery in, in 2021, and you've developed a condition that
was diagnosed finally as isolated gait disorder. Can you explain
to us what that actually is?
S3 (23:53):
I wish I knew, um, it was originally described as
frozen gait disorder, which is a symptom of Parkinson's disease,
but I don't have Parkinson's, so. And I haven't developed
any further symptoms so that the specialist that then now
calls it an isolated gait disorder. So what it means is,
(24:16):
as far as I could tell, that I don't walk
very well and that my walking is getting harder and
harder for me to do. And so, um, that's why
I use a wheelchair quite often now, and I don't,
I don't know where it's going. I saw the specialist
Lost just a couple of weeks ago. And he they
(24:37):
go through all these questions. How's your swallowing? How's your eyesight?
How's this? How's that? You say fine, fine, fine, fine.
And he and then we just chat and I said,
and then I say, well, I'll see you in six months,
will I? And he said, yes, I'll look forward to it.
And I leave exactly as I was when I arrived.
(24:57):
So there doesn't seem to be anything I can do
for it. There's no known cure, and as far as
I know, there's not enough research going on into gait
disorders generally. And I'm hoping that somewhere in the world
there's a researcher doing something wonderful with gait disorders. I mean,
it's to do with the brain not connecting with the feet.
(25:21):
You know, it's not sending a message and not sending
the right sort of message. That's layman's terms. So there's
probably a medical way of describing it, but something's not
connecting in some remote part of my brain. So minuscule,
says the doctor, that we can't see it. It's so
minuscule that we can't see what's going on. So, as
(25:46):
my GP said, I'm a medical curiosity. And he said,
you don't want to be that and I don't want
to be that, but I think I am indeed.
S2 (25:54):
And you're getting physiotherapy and various exercise treatments.
S3 (26:00):
Oh yes. I go to rehab three times a week.
I do an hour of exercise with them, and I
have a whole stack of exercises that I do myself
and their neuro physicists, physiotherapists. So it's brain connected and
they're very good and they just keep encouraging me to
(26:20):
keep exercising. That's the only thing that I've been recommended
that I do.
S2 (26:24):
And you seem to be as busy as ever. I
went to see you at one speech for the, um,
Macular Disease Zs. Um, Association. And you've got another one
coming up, um, at Macquarie University, I believe next month.
You um from.
S3 (26:40):
Yes I.
S2 (26:41):
Do yeah. You've got a lot of, um, engagements. You
seem to be pretty busy.
S3 (26:46):
I'm busy enough. I'm not as busy as I was,
but I wouldn't want to be as busy as I was.
I mean, I've been working for more than 65 years,
I think. I think I'm just. I think I'm inclined
to have some time off.
S2 (26:59):
Indeed. And 15 years old. You started working.
S3 (27:03):
Yeah.
S2 (27:03):
So that's that's that's a long stretch. Ida, have you
had many long holidays did you have during that fantastic
stretch of, um, career opportunities and that you had, did
you have, um, like long holidays at any point? Because
I know you took your kids away quite a bit, so.
(27:24):
But did you actually have like a long break six weeks?
S3 (27:27):
No, I didn't, no I didn't. Maybe maybe three weeks
or four weeks at maximum. Um, and yes, I was
offered lots of trips, but I usually gave them to
the staff because I couldn't. I couldn't take them because
I was busy, busy running, running, whatever empire I was
running at the time. And I don't feel I've missed
(27:49):
out on anything, though as I've got older, I've I've
had a bit more time to go travelling. And, you know,
my brother was asking me the other day, where else
do I want to go? I don't, I don't think
there's anywhere else I do want to go that I
haven't seen, and I'm quite happy to stay in Australia. Now.
S2 (28:09):
You said something very wise to me when I, when
I spoke to you about about job opportunities and, um,
it was a very simple thing, but I think it's very,
very true. And that is, no one will know what
your dream is. Nobody will know what you want until
you put your hand up. A lot of people don't
(28:31):
put their hand up either, because they're, um, uh, lack
confidence or because they, um, just don't think anybody's going
to take them seriously or they don't think they have
a chance. You've always put your hand up, haven't you?
S3 (28:46):
Yes, I have. And I think that's part of the
the attraction of growing up with brothers. If you didn't
put your hand up, you miss out. I mean, I
didn't put my hand up for mashed potatoes. My brothers
would eat them all. So I'm. I'm. I know that's
not ambition, but it was their ambition to eat all mine.
(29:09):
But you've got to volunteer. You've got to take a risk.
And because you're only here once, I think we spend
too much time trying to do what everybody else expects
us to do. And I think women are more guilty
than that of that. Than men, perhaps. But. But in
your heart, we all have dreams of what we want
(29:30):
to do. I'm sure of that. And you have to
listen to that sometimes. And you have to give in
to it and think, well, I'm only here once. I
think I'll have a go at that. If you fail,
it doesn't matter. It's alright to fail at some things.
You just pick yourself up and find another dream.
S2 (29:50):
And you were. You weren't treated that kindly when item
magazine closed and it did run for six years, which
is a pretty decent run for a magazine. It reached
a pretty good circulation. And, um, you know, you're very
nobly made sure that everybody was paid. You didn't declare bankruptcy,
and it would have been a very hard time for
you because you had, you know, a lot of people
(30:12):
to pay off. But, um, that.
S3 (30:15):
Was a it was an awful time.
S2 (30:18):
How did how long did it take you to sort
of get over that? Because the media were kind of
using words like eaters Last stand and sort of saying, you're,
you know, after a run of. After a run of
all these expanding successes over the years, you'd finally stumbled
and fell. As we know, the media can be pretty cruel.
But you know, you actually went on to have a
(30:39):
spectacular second career. Um, but as everybody knows, from, from
that point onwards in, in television, radio, um, where does
it where does it end? And of course, with the ABC. But, um, well,
how did you deal with that? Um, initial sort of
few months afterwards?
S3 (30:59):
Well, you, you go off and grieve and then you think,
no one's going to pick me up, I've got to
pick myself up. And so I, I have these little
chats with myself. Pick yourself up. No one else is
going to pick you up. And so you you pick
yourself up and you think, well, what else can I do?
And you just you just look for the opportunities because
(31:23):
you again, I go back to what I said. you
only here once. You can't waste a moment. And you know.
So something I did didn't work. It survived six years.
It survived the recession we had to have which really
which was really crippling. And it was so hard, so
(31:45):
hard to get advertising during the recession. We had to have.
But you have to believe in yourself. If you don't
believe in yourself, no one else will. You have to
believe in yourself, and I believe in myself.
S2 (31:59):
You've got five grandkids and I think they're all teenagers now,
aren't they?
S3 (32:04):
Yes, Jack, the youngest one, turned 13 last week.
S2 (32:08):
Oh, really? Okay, so you've got five teenage grandkids. So
that sounds like, um, a handful.
S3 (32:15):
Oh. They're lovely. I adore them all. And two of
them are driving. Two of them have their p plates.
One of them is on LS and the other two
are too young yet. So one of them rang me
the other day and said, grandma, I said, yes, would
you sell me your car? I said, well, I'm not
(32:36):
thinking of selling it, Sammy, but when you do, would
you sell it to me? I said, I don't think
you can afford it, but would you sell it to
me if I could afford it? And I said, well,
if you talk to your parents, that's what you always do.
When it gets too tricky, you send them back to
their parents or the school counsellor. Both of them very
(32:58):
useful excuses.
S2 (33:01):
That's that's a great comeback. It sounds like Sammy is
a chip off the old block. Talk about putting putting
your hand up after. It's been a delight talking to you.
We could talk for hours. How amazing your your career is. Um,
but again, we are restricted by time, so thank you
very much.
S3 (33:21):
I've enjoyed it. Thank you very much, Greg.
S1 (33:25):
That was Ita Buttrose, the media trailblazer and icon, now
83 on her very big life and six decade career.
For the latest good weekend talks. If you enjoyed this episode,
please remember to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get
your podcasts and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations.
Coming soon. Senior culture writer Kerry O'Brien chats with Scottish
(33:48):
historian William Dalrymple ahead of his speaking tour Down Under.
Good Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney
Morning Herald and The Age. Proud newsrooms powered by subscriptions
to support independent journalism. Search, subscribe Sydney Morning Herald or
The Age? This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced
by Konrad Marshall, with technical assistance from Josh towers and
(34:10):
editing from Tim Mummery. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills.
Tom McKendrick is head of audio and Melissa Stevens is
the editor of Good Weekend.
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