April 4, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode we speak with Ellie Cole. Cole, of course, is a childhood cancer survivor whose right leg was amputated when she was 3. Within weeks of that operation, she was swimming as a form of rehab, before ultimately going on to become the most decorated Aussie female Paralympian of all time, with 17 medals over four games. In recent years she’s become a rising star in Australian sports media, as a trusted and charismatic broadcaster, not to mention staunch disability advocate, and now children’s book author. Cole recently became a mum to her little boy Felix, and her new book – “Felix and his Fantastic Friends” – is inspired by his adventures in early childhood, and her own in motherhood. Hosting this conversation – about everything Cole’s relationship with her twin sister to the complicated challenge of Paralympic classification – is a man who covered Cole’s final games in Tokyo in 2021 – Sydney Morning Herald sports journalist, Tom Decent.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:09):
Hi, I'm Konrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald
and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine
for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from
sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week,
you can download new episodes in which top journalists from
across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive
(00:32):
stories of the day. In this episode, we speak with
Ellie Cole. Cole, of course, is a childhood cancer survivor
whose right leg was amputated when she was three. Within
eight weeks of that operation, she was swimming as a
form of rehab, and she ultimately went on to become
the most decorated Aussie female Paralympian of all time, with
(00:52):
17 medals over four games. In recent years, she's become
a rising star in Australian sports media as a trusted
and charismatic broadcaster, not to mention a staunch disability advocate.
She joins us today with a new title. Children's book author.
Cole recently became a mum to her little boy, Felix,
and her new book, Felix and His Fantastic Friends, is
(01:16):
inspired by his adventures in early childhood and her own
in motherhood. And hosting this conversation about everything from Cole's
relationship with her twin sister to the arcane challenges of
Paralympic classification is a man who's covered Cole's final games
in Tokyo in 2021, and that Sydney Morning Herald sports
journalist Tom decent.
S2 (01:38):
Thank you Conrad. Well, it's a huge pleasure to welcome
Ellie Cole into the Good Weekend Studios. So what's harder
Ellie winning multiple Paralympic gold medals, presenting on live television,
being a mum or writing a children's book, which is
very good, by the way.
S3 (01:53):
Thank you. Is there an option for all of the
above there? Um, I think a lot of people think
winning a gold medal is hard, but it's actually the
work to get there. That's hard. The winning bit is
just putting it all together, so maybe not so much.
Being a mum. I think training for being an athlete
actually got me ready for being a mum, because I
was waking up at 4:00 every morning. I'm still doing
exactly the same thing as a mum. Um, so I
(02:14):
was kind of born for that. Writing a children's book
has probably been the hardest because it's an area that
I'm absolutely not familiar with. And, um, I got a
lot of writer's block. I don't know how you write
every day, Tom, because it's so difficult.
S2 (02:28):
Particularly when there's a loud crowd and you're at a
stadium or a pool and the crowd is going full on,
and you have to send that copy off very, very soon. But, um, yeah.
How was how was the deadline world?
S3 (02:37):
The deadline world was fine. Um, I love working towards
a deadline. When I was an athlete, we always had
the deadline of being a World Championships or a Paralympic Games.
And so I always had a really good plan to
how to work backwards from that. And it was no
different with writing a children's book. And it's probably going
to be no different with any industry that an athlete
works in. Um, but when you have the writer's block
and you don't have anybody else there to tell you
(02:57):
what to do, like when you're an athlete. Like, you
just do this and you'll be fine. That was the
challenging part. And, um, pulling out, you know, the creativity
was really challenging as well, but I loved I loved it.
I knew that I had a good story to tell,
and I knew that it was an important message to
get out to the world. And I think that that
helped me a lot when I was experiencing writer's block,
because I would always just fall back on why I
(03:18):
was doing it in the first place.
S2 (03:19):
We will get on to the book. You are a
very busy person. Um, was there a deadline on the
Ellie Cole Swimming Arena that you're building at the moment
as well? Can you tell us about that little project
on your Insta?
S3 (03:30):
Absolutely. So I purchased this house about a year and
a half ago, uh, with my partner. We're expecting our
first child, Felix. And, um, we bought this place that
was maybe built about 40 years ago and has not
been renovated since. And the backyard was very Italian, and
I thought, this place is very well built. I probably
won't touch anything but the backyard. We need a swimming
(03:50):
pool in there. Of course, I can't be an athlete
and a swimmer without having a swimming pool. Um, and
so the last four months or something, we've been renovating
our entire backyard. We've put a swimming pool in there.
So Felix loves swimming, my son. And he'll be definitely
jumping in every day. He already wants to jump in.
It's not heated or anything yet, and there's still, like
tile fragments in the bottom. But the l'École swimming Center
(04:12):
is coming to life, and I shan't be raising my
heart rate above 90 when I'm in there. I'll probably
just be laying on a little lilo. Maybe you have
a nice beverage in my hand and enjoy the sun
and relaxing after a very long swimming career.
S2 (04:27):
You are Australia's most decorated female Paralympian. I'm fascinated in
athletes after they give up their sport, whether they like
to still dabble in it recreationally. Do you still swim? Like?
Do you have the bug to get out and bang
out a few laps?
S3 (04:39):
I don't, um, I would love to. I still love
and enjoy swimming when I do. I think I've only
swam maybe three times in the last two and a half,
three years since I've retired. It's just such an effort
to go to a swimming pool and you get your
hair wet. It's it's a It's a lot of effort
after as well. What I have done is I've built
(04:59):
this home gym in my house, so I still train.
I try 3 or 4 times a week. It's a
bit hard when you have a son, um, a one
year old son for that matter. But the swimming side
of things to actually get in the car and drive
to a swimming pool, I'm just not really there yet.
S2 (05:15):
And I thought it's a very active people. It was interesting.
I was lucky enough to cover the tail end of
your career. I believe I interviewed you before the Tokyo
Paralympics and, um, was one of a few handful of
Australian newspaper journalists to go and cover those Paralympics, which
were very unique. As we know, during the height of Covid,
we would have done lockdown together, I presume, on our
way back to Australia. Um, I don't know about you,
(05:36):
but how did you keep sane during that period? Um,
after after that, in lockdown.
S3 (05:40):
How did you go in there?
S2 (05:42):
I hired an exercise bike. I paid 200 bucks and
then delivered it to my room. And I sat on
that bike for two weeks because I needed something to do.
I don't know about you. Being an athlete in that period.
Must've been pretty tricky.
S3 (05:51):
So you went through the Covid lockdown shred? I did
the same thing. Actually. I would do this. Um, I
would have kind of the same routine every day where
I would wake up and I would exercise straight away.
And there was one day in there, I think it
was about day seven, where I didn't do any exercise
as soon as I woke up, and it was the
hardest day in lockdown. I experienced so much anxiety, but
I was getting up and exercising every day and then
(06:13):
there was nothing else to do. So I would do
a training session in the afternoon as well, and I
was probably more fit leaving that hotel quarantine than I
was when I was an athlete. But the bit that
I did in the middle was eat like a bag
of Doritos and like six cornettos. And when you're an
athlete returning back from the Paralympic Games, I don't know
if you remember, but a lot of athletes were receiving
just like random gifts from people that were just sending
(06:36):
them straight to our hotel rooms. So I was getting
all of these, like, baked goods, ice creams. People were
sending me like Uber Eats, like Queen Chow for dinner.
And I was like, this is so great, but I
definitely overate. But also overexercise probably too, there was nothing
else to do. And there was there.
S2 (06:51):
No, I had a friend who sent a carton of beer,
but you weren't allowed the full case of beer. They
though rationed the beer each night because there were issues
in quarantine for some people with alcohol. So a very
wild experience. But it's so great to have you in
and and cover off your career and talk about the
book as well. But tell us a little bit about
your childhood as well, Ellie.
S3 (07:10):
So, um, I grew up in the eastern suburbs of Victoria.
I was actually born as an able bodied girl, which
a lot of people don't know. I was wasn't born
with my disability. Um, and I was born alongside my
twin sister, who's also able bodied. But I was diagnosed
with cancer when I was about two. And so I
underwent this whole year of chemotherapy. Um, I was stuck
in hospitals. I didn't really know what was happening. Like,
(07:32):
how do you explain to a two year old that
they're so sick? And eventually, uh, the chemotherapy was making
me more sick. It was killing a lot of my
white blood cells than the actual cancer was. And so
we had to stop that chemotherapy, but at risk of
it spreading, uh, we had to amputate my leg. And
that's actually how I lost my leg. But the silver
lining in that whole story is that a few weeks
(07:53):
after my amputation, I was quite literally thrown into a
swimming pool for rehabilitation. And that's where my whole swimming
story began. Um, and I loved the water. I loved
the freedom that it gave me. I could take off
my prosthetic. I could be the same as my twin sister.
And nobody even knew that I was different when I
was in the pool. Um, and I loved that aspect
of it. I loved being treated as an equal because
(08:15):
growing up in the 1990s with a disability, that that
that wasn't necessarily the case. Disability isn't known as it
is now. And, you know, you didn't see people with
disabilities in the community or even securing employment. Definitely not
on television, that's for sure. And the media portrayal was
really negative. So it was it was not a good
time in my life to acquire a disability. But I'm
(08:38):
really thankful that I found sport and eventually the Paralympic Movement,
when I was about ten years old and went on
to become a Paralympian, and with that platform, was able
to completely reshape the way that people perceive others with
disabilities and in turn, probably perceive the way what they
can achieve within themselves as well. So it was it
was a difficult start to my life, quite tumultuous. But
(09:01):
finding sport, finding the Paralympics, like we've heard Dylan Alcott say,
it saved his life. And if I look back at mine,
it's made my life completely different to how my parents
first imagined that it would be when they knew that
their daughter was going to have a disability. So it's, um,
definitely opened up my world in terms of becoming an
elite athlete. I was actually really inspired by the Sydney
2000 Olympians. I loved Ian Thorpe, and it was amazing
(09:25):
to be able to work on the Olympics with him
in Paris as well. I just was pinching myself and
Giaan Rooney, who was over in Paris with the Nine Network. Um,
I idolized her growing up as well, like there was
this one training session I remember when I was little
and she was doing theraband exercises. She was still an
athlete and part of her theraband like, popped off and
landed in my lane, and I gave it to her
(09:45):
and she took it out of my hand and I
was like, this is the best day of my life.
And and I remember going back to my swimming club
and telling the story about how John Rooney, like her,
basically like rehabilitation equipment, broke down into my lane and
it made us it made our newsletter like it was.
It was awesome. So to be able to work on
the Olympics with Thorpe and John was really cool, but
(10:06):
they're the ones that really inspired me to become an
elite athlete. Um, I wasn't actually inspired by Paralympians because
I didn't know about the Paralympics until I was around
about 11 years old or 12 years old. And then
once I discovered the Paralympics and I saw, you know,
double leg amputees bounding down athletics tracks and all of
the amazing things that we saw in Paris with our athletes,
(10:27):
I just was hooked. And I couldn't wait to become
a Paralympian. And it was awesome. It's been a great career.
S2 (10:33):
Tell me about your relationship with your twin, Brittany. She's
able bodied but incredibly supportive throughout your childhood as well. Um,
tell me about that dynamic growing up.
S3 (10:41):
It's a really difficult thing for me to talk about
and even comprehend, really, the relationship that I have with
my sister, because obviously neither of us chose for me to.
To become sick when I was little with cancer. And unfortunately,
when there is a child that has cancer, that to
that child is number one priority. To get them better
(11:03):
and to get them rehabilitated and back on their feet again.
And the siblings often become a bit of collateral damage
in that process. So when I was sick, I was
going through chemotherapy for a year. My siblings were all
at home, being taken care of by my father and
my grandmother. And, um, I think that long term, there's
probably been a few consequences of that where, you know,
(11:27):
getting me better was first priority, and then focusing on
my swimming career was a really big priority in my
family as well. And my sister has always been that
person that has always lifted me up. So she, you know,
was a really important part of my rehabilitation. She taught
me how to walk again. She taught me how to
ride a bike. She took me by the hand and
pulled me along in her life and taught me how
(11:48):
to do all of these incredible things that the doctors
told me that I would never be able to do,
you know, climbing trees and roller skating and all of
these amazing things. And so my childhood was so picture perfect,
despite the difficult start, because of my sister. Um, but unfortunately, like,
throughout our childhood and then even onto our adulthood, I
(12:10):
feel like she's always sacrificed so much to be able
for me to be able to achieve. And she's actually
training for the Olympics herself. She's training in the sport
of shooting. And it was nice for me to be
able to retire, because it was like I could really
stand back and give her her moment. Um, and yeah,
she's been an amazing support for me, and she always
will be. And we are the best of friends, but
(12:33):
I it's hard for me to be able to look
at our relationship without thinking of all the things that
in a way, because of my cancer and my sporting career, that,
you know, there are a lot of opportunities that I
took away from her so that I could get them.
And now I think for me, I owe her for
the rest of my life, and I'm going to do
everything that I can to make sure that she's happy.
(12:53):
And if she wants to go to the Olympics, we'll
support her to get there. If she wants to do
something else, we'll support her to get there. But, um,
she's been an amazing, amazing person in my life, and
I definitely would not have been able to achieve everything
that I have if she wasn't around.
S2 (13:06):
As a child, I would imagine it is difficult being
told the things you can't do. So how does that
compare to the joy of being told you're on your
first Australian Paralympic team in 2008 for the Beijing Games?
S3 (13:17):
It was interesting. You know, the moment I left hospital,
my parents were given this whole list of things that
I would struggle with, and they were really simple things
that I look back at now being like, well, that's interesting.
And it really taught me a lot about the, you know,
medical model of disability, where if you look at someone
that has a disability or an impairment and, you know,
you look at them as what that impairment is disabling
(13:39):
them to do, of course, that's the way that the
doctors are going to look at me. But throughout the
last 20 years of having a disability, we've really shifted
in our society towards more of the social model. So
changing our environment to accommodate as many people as we
can to be able to achieve what we're able to
achieve in sport. It was hard for me growing up
with a disability, because the Olympic team and the able
(14:01):
bodied team were obviously the Australian swim team. We all
know what they're like. They're so, um, idolised and for
very good reason. They're the best in the world and
have been for such a long time. But the Paralympic
team were always an afterthought, and they were always the
ones that, um, you know, if funding got cut, it
was always from our program. Um, it was always really
(14:22):
challenging to see, you know, the Olympic team staying in
these incredible hotels. And then I remember this one hotel
we stayed in with the Paralympic team where we were
all expected to share, like this giant room with like
15 bunk beds in there. And it was hard growing
up in an environment where I knew that I wanted
to achieve amazing things as an elite athlete, but I
wasn't necessarily receiving the support from either the sporting organisations
(14:46):
I was for my swimming club, but from various different people. Um,
and that was always really challenging. So for me to
be able to be told that I couldn't do or
achieve the same things as somebody that had two legs
growing up. It probably could have been quite detrimental. But
for me, it really was a fire in my belly to, um,
(15:07):
show people what I could actually do. So to then
be announced on my first Paralympic team when I was
like 16 was so exciting. I don't think I understood
the gravity of the Paralympic Games in that moment, though, because, um,
for me, I knew I was just like, I could
leave school for about three months, go and travel off
to Beijing in 2008 and, um, represent Australia. I didn't
(15:30):
really realise, I suppose, the responsibility that an athlete can
have and the impact that an athlete can have in
a wider sense, probably until I was much older. So
I did have a very good time over there. In Beijing,
I won a silver and two bronze, which was really
surprising for everybody, including myself. Um, but I think it
was probably more a catalyst than anything for the rest
(15:53):
of my career. Um, I, I wish that a lot
of athletes that went to their first Olympics or Paralympics
could just, like, put the old plates on and understand
that that first games is, you know, a real experience
to understand what the whole movement, Olympics or Paralympics is
really about. Um, I definitely had my old plates on.
I didn't know what I was doing.
S2 (16:14):
And a little known fact is that you had a
little foray into basketball as well.
S3 (16:17):
Yeah, I did. Um, so I competed at two Paralympic
Games in swimming before I decided to try a bit
of basketball. The reason why I decided wheelchair basketball in particular,
was I had a double shoulder reconstruction, um, after London.
And I took some time out of the pool and
I went along to this, like, come and try wheelchair
basketball day. And my shoulders were still so strong from
(16:38):
my swimming career, and I was incredibly competitive. Um, and
so I would kind of just barge my way into
the key. Someone would throw me the ball, I would
shoot it towards the hoop. It would miss 99% of
the time. But, um, a lot of the coaches from
the Australian team saw my competitive nature, um, my strength, um,
(17:00):
my ability to pick up skills and take instructions from
being an athlete really, really well and decided that, um,
they might want to start, you know, making me into
this Australian wheelchair basketball player. But I ended up going
back into swimming, um, as my first love. And I
don't regret it, because then I went on to compete
at another two Paralympic Games after that.
S2 (17:21):
You end up winning six gold, five silver and six
bronze medals at the Paralympics. How did the Paralympic Movement
change in that time? From 2008, and your first team
to 2021, in Tokyo when you finished with the Australian
swim team?
S3 (17:34):
Uh, I don't think I've ever seen anything like the
way that the Paralympic movement has changed the perception of
an entire minority group in such a quick amount of time,
a short amount of time. It was pretty remarkable. You know,
if I look back at Beijing 2008, I had only
really just learned what the Paralympic Games was. It wasn't
on television. It definitely wasn't really reported on that widely.
(17:57):
In fact, even if you look back now, historically, you'd
probably be hard pressed to find a lot of media
content around the Beijing Paralympic Games. And I remember, you know,
swimming and winning three medals and coming home back to
the airport. There wasn't really any media waiting. It was
like my mum and dad and my my siblings. Um,
(18:17):
if we go fast forward four years to the London 2012,
they did an incredible job at running those games, Olympics
and Paralympics. And I remember around the Paralympic Games, um,
in the lead up to the games they ran this
campaign called Meet the Superhumans. It was this incredible campaign
about how Paralympic athletes were, like, superhuman. In a way.
(18:39):
It was just it's an awesome ad. I encourage you
to watch it. It's on YouTube. And the whole country
in the the whole of the United Kingdom. Really, um,
just fell in love with this Paralympic movement. And I
remember going to London the year after 2012 and competing
in swimming. And I was walking down the street with
a short statured girl myself who was a leg amputee. Um,
(19:02):
Ahmed Kelly, who has no arms and no legs, and
Grant Scooter Patterson, who's the tiny guy on a little scooter.
And I was thinking, we're going to be a real
sight here, and we're going to get a lot of
people do double takes. And we went down the street
and no one looked at us twice. And it was
just a bizarre for me to always be stared at
in the streets of Australia, to go to the UK
(19:23):
and no one even looking twice at. But honestly, it
sounded like the start of a joke. Like the four
of us walking down the street. And, um, it was incredible,
the support that the United Kingdom gave to the Paralympic uh,
team from GB and, um, completely changed the story of
the Paralympics. But then when we moved forward another four
(19:44):
years to the Rio 2016 games. There was a lot of, um,
issues around the way that that those games were managed
by the organising committee. The Olympics started to run out
of money, and so they took the money from the
Paralympics and put it into the Olympics. So by the
time we got there, we had effectively run out of
money to even run the games. And so everything got cut.
(20:05):
And like there was pretty much no bus schedules in
the dining hall. There was like two stalls open for,
you know, 600 athletes or even more, thousands of athletes. And, um,
I really noticed. I really remember sitting there thinking like,
this is a huge step back from London and thinking
that it would always continue to be that way. And
(20:27):
I was actually planning to retire after Rio, but then
I was like, there's no way I can retire after
a games like this. It was an awful experience, actually,
to go to those games. And so I decided to
commit to Tokyo because I knew the Japanese were going
to run an incredible games and a couple of years
training in towards Tokyo. Then Covid happens and I was like,
of course it's going to be games that is not
(20:48):
going to live up to the potential that it really has. But,
you know, you know what Tokyo was like. It was
incredible experience. Despite Covid, despite all the lockdowns and Covid
testing and limited ability to move around. It was an
incredible games. And the silver lining, I won't say the
wonderful thing is, but the silver lining in it is
(21:09):
that the Australian community were all at home. The Olympics
and Paralympics was this beacon of light in this period
of darkness for the world. And, um, I think people
really fell in love with our Paralympic team during the
Tokyo Games. And obviously the huge announcement of pay parity
as well was incredibly important there.
S2 (21:31):
You may not remember, but I interviewed you on that
day that that happened, I believe even potentially before your
race where you won your 17th medal at the Paralympics.
And that was a huge day for all involved, wasn't it?
with the announcement from the federal government that there would
be pay parity with prize money for Olympic and Paralympic athletes.
You posted a video on social media, I believe, on
(21:53):
the morning of your race. Quite emotional at what that meant,
given that you had been one of the oldest members
of the team and sort of seen that from the beginning.
How was that day to then deal with that and
then get up and race?
S3 (22:05):
Yeah, I remember that day really well. And I remember
that interview. I think you were the only interview that
I did about the pay parity, actually. Um, that announcement
for me really took me by surprise. Initially, I thought
that all of Australia knew that Paralympians weren't paid in
the same way as Olympic athletes in terms of, um,
(22:27):
prize money. And, uh, that wasn't the case at all.
Australia didn't know. And, um, when they did find out,
eventually there was absolute outrage from all Australians about why, um, Um,
you know, Olympians were being paid prize money and Paralympians weren't.
And for me, as a Paralympian, that was really nice
(22:50):
to see our country stand up for people with disabilities.
Paralympic athletes, because I'd seen it in drip fed to
me and I could see it improving over time. But
that was an avalanche of support from Australia. And the
announcement itself made me really emotional because my whole life
I had been fighting to be seen as equal, and
(23:14):
I spent my swimming career training in Olympic training programs.
I trained alongside Cate and Bronte Campbell for three years,
and I would always go off to separate competitions and
always be treated so differently. And it wasn't just me,
it was our whole Paralympic team that I was fighting
for to be seen as these incredible elite athletes that
we are. Um, this pay parity announcement did make me
(23:36):
emotional because I think it was just two decades of
that fighting and me being absolutely exhausted at the end
of my career. And that announcement was made on the
very last day of my Paralympic career. Like, it was
almost poetic. You couldn't write that. And, um, I did
the interview with you about what it meant, and then
(23:56):
I went off to the swimming pool, and I raced
my last ever race for Australia at a Paralympic Games,
and that was in a relay. And we won a
bronze medal, um, that night. And I remember warming up
for that event and I was still crying from the announcement.
My goggles were filling up with tears, and I had
to keep emptying them in the warm up pool. And
I remember pulling myself out of the pool, sitting on
the edge and looking at the pool, all these competitors
(24:18):
warming up and just taking in that last moment and
reflecting on how much the Paralympics has changed. And it
was a big, big day for us. Now winning that
medal that night, it made me Australia's most decorated female Paralympian.
That was my 17th medal. We won a bronze in
the relay. But what was really special about that race
in particular is because the announcement was made. I was
(24:39):
sharing the podium with this young girl who was only
15 years old. And her name is Izzy Vincent. Um,
she was her first Paralympic Games, and she was at
a really similar age to when I started in the Paralympics,
and her and I went back to the athletes village,
just to just her and I together that night after
the announcement was made, and I asked Izzy what it
(25:00):
meant to her to be receiving prize money and recognition
in that sense, for the first time ever. And her
ever was much shorter than my ever. But, um, I
remember she told me she was going to buy a car,
and she was really excited, and she was really focused
on like, you know, as a 15 year old, I
think she'd won like $15,000 or something. It was a
lot of money for a 15 year old. She was stoked, obviously, understandably. But, um,
(25:24):
I kind of smiled at her. I'm like, no, but
what does it mean to you? Like, what does this
mean to you? The announcement. And she's like, yeah, it's good.
And I was like, okay, you don't get you don't
really get what I mean. In terms I'm like, you know,
that Paralympians for the last 60, 65 years have never
been paid up until this moment. Right. And she's like, yeah.
And I'm like, and what does that mean to you?
(25:45):
She's like, yeah, it's good. And then I almost started
thinking like, okay, I need to like give her a
bit of a history lesson on the Paralympics here. But
then I was like, no, I'm just going to leave
it because she doesn't really need to understand how hard
we had to fight. She doesn't need to understand what
we went through as Paralympic athletes. Um, and she was
in a very different generation in terms of sport than
(26:05):
what I was. And she was going to go for
the rest of her career being seen in a way
that that the Paralympians before her never were. And I
remember thinking like, that's just such a nice moment. Like
we actually separated paths. And I knew she was quite
literally going to be going down a very different path
than what I did. And I remember thinking like, that
is worth more than any gold medal. Like that moment.
(26:26):
And I can guarantee that since that day, I've thought
about that conversation almost every day with Izzy since that happened.
And I can guarantee you that she's not thought about
that conversation once. There is no way she's thought about
that conversation again.
S2 (26:41):
If only they'd backed out of your prize money. I
think I asked you that at the time, and, uh, unfortunately,
they didn't. So we move on.
S3 (26:47):
That's fine. I'm happy with what we got in the end.
S2 (27:00):
The the issue of classification is a tricky one in
Paralympic sport with prize money in. Do you see issues
with that in the future where athletes, even that money
is at stake, might try and gain an advantage with classification?
Like where do you see that issue at?
S3 (27:15):
The integrity of Paralympic sport is at a very high
risk at the moment. You know, if you think about, um,
able bodied sport, obviously a lot of focus on how
to gain an advantage is around doping. And so obviously
that's heavily, heavily criticized, which is the way it should be.
And it's very heavily moderated. And um, there are very
strict standards with what athletes are and aren't able to take.
(27:37):
Like when I was an athlete, I wasn't even allowed
to take cold and flu medication. Um, so in the
able bodied world, that's that's the issues that they have
at hand in the Paralympic world, we have this thing
called intentional misrepresentation, and we are already seeing a few
cases here and there from around the world of this happening.
And effectively, why it's happening is, like you've just said,
(27:59):
Paralympic sport is becoming, um, you know, very heavily sponsored. Um,
you can, as an athlete get brand endorsements, prize money. Um,
you actually earn a living for the first time ever.
And because of this, we are seeing more athletes who
are going to their classification process and maybe, um, intentionally
(28:21):
misrepresenting what their what their disability is or the severity
of their disability, trying to be put into a different
classification than what they actually should be. And it's really hard. Um,
it is really, really hard to catch, catch these athletes
that are doing that because, for example, if you have
cerebral palsy and you have quite a severe case, if
(28:42):
you start training in the sport of swimming, you can
become stronger and you can learn how to use your
body a little bit better. Then a lot of athletes
then are the consequence of that is that when they
go back to classification, they say, oh, your disability is
not as bad as it was before, so we're going
to move you into this class instead. And so there
needs to be like a sense of what their actual
disability impairment is versus what their training has been able
(29:03):
to do, and vice versa. And so we are seeing
athletes begin to intentionally misrepresent what their disability is. Unfortunately,
there is a lot of commentary around the athletes as well.
But at the end of the day, athletes, we aren't
medical professionals. We aren't doctors. We don't know what people's
disabilities really are or what impact that has on their life.
So it's really hard for us to make a comment
(29:25):
on that. But it still happens. Um, the International Paralympic
Committee are doing the best that they can. Paralympics, Australia,
we're doing the best that we can as well. We've
actually have a panel, um, where we go through, you know,
suggested cases where it may be happening here. We hope
that it isn't, but it's probably likely going to begin
(29:46):
to happen in every country, particularly as the Paralympics gains
more and more momentum, which is happening very quickly. It's
like a steam train that you can't stop the Paralympics. So, um,
I'm really thankful. At the beginning of my career, I
never felt like I was competing against athletes that had
an unfair advantage over me. But towards the back end
of my career, I definitely saw cases where I would
(30:07):
be competing against people that had two arms and two
legs that were box jumping 100cm. But as an athlete,
I couldn't do anything about that. So I just had
to do the best that I could to try and
produce the best times and give Australia the best chance
to make the podium. But it's so frustrating as an
athlete when you put everything that you can into something
and then you see somebody come into your classification that,
(30:29):
you know, almost looks completely able bodied and, um, smokes
you out of the water and there's nothing you can
do about it.
S2 (30:36):
You've kept very busy in retirement. I wouldn't call it retirement.
You've been so busy. It's daily. It's barely retirement. You
were lucky enough to be in Paris for channel nine,
doing Olympics poolside interviews at the pool. How does that
compare to being an athlete? What did you make of
that experience? And as someone who has done that, I
know the scary element of live telly. But on a
(30:58):
level like that, where all of Australia is watching, how
did you feel about the privilege of being able to
ask the first question of Australia's swimmers coming out and
winning medals?
S3 (31:06):
It's a huge privilege and I know you've done this
before with the Australian swim team as well. Our Australian
swim team is incredible, so to have the chance to
be that first point of contact when they get out
of the pool after what could arguably be the biggest
moment of their life or the biggest disappointment up to
that date? Um, it's a massive responsibility. And as an athlete,
I know exactly what those feelings that they're going through are.
(31:29):
For Emma McKeon, who is racing at her last Olympics,
I know how it feels to get out of the
pool after her career was like probably the same length
as mine almost 16 years, and walk away from that
stadium for the last time. It's the most it's so emotional. And, um,
it was it was hard because on one hand, I
(31:50):
was the old athlete who had grown up with all
of these swimmers and knew so many very personal things
about them and what they're experiencing themselves as well. And then,
on the other hand, I was also just this massive
swimming fan who was so excited to be there. So
I had to kind of try and blend both of
those two things together. But at the end of the day,
(32:11):
I know that when I was an athlete and I
was being interviewed, I really wanted the person first to
come out of this interview, and I wanted to make
sure that I was giving these athletes the same opportunity that, um,
you know, at the end of the day, it was
their moment. And, um, it was nice for me to
be there, but it was their moment. And there was
(32:31):
something pretty cool, though, about in Tokyo, you know, watching
Ariarne Titmus and Katie Ledecky and all of that, and
then being over in Paris and seeing that same race
play out again and then seeing like Arnie walk up
and then Katie walk past me, I was seriously the
biggest swimming. And I was like, getting selfies with all these, um,
cool athletes in the background that I'd seen on TV,
but I'd never seen in real life because, well, the
(32:53):
Paralympics is different. I was always training when the Olympics
were on, so I was just so excited to be there.
But I didn't know if I told you when I
was over in Paris, I can't speak any French. I
thought I was eating yogurt every morning for breakfast. I
was apparently eating a bowl of cheese, but like always.
S2 (33:10):
I do love that over there. The, uh, the cheese.
S4 (33:12):
It looks just like Greek yogurt.
S3 (33:14):
And it almost tastes almost tastes the same in some sense. But, um,
I just loved the experience of being over there, being
in a country where I couldn't speak the language. And
when the Olympics were on and it being, you know,
the hotel with all the nine nine crew and how
amazingly accommodating, um, the channel nine team were and lovely
and had the best time. I really did, and I
(33:34):
hope I get to do every Olympics from. Now until
I'm like 150 because it was a really good time.
S2 (33:41):
We did a fabulous job, but unfortunately we, the reporters
in the stadium can't hear your commentary. We can see
you down there and we're up the back a little bit.
So I remember sitting next to James Magnussen during Arnie's
400 free win, and that was just special, a huge moment.
And the stadium was rocking completely different to Tokyo on
many different levels.
S3 (33:56):
So what was it like to be with Maggie there?
Because obviously he's experienced well, as a Paralympian, I've experienced
something very similar, obviously being at the Paralympics. Um, but
you were sitting next to an Olympian who was racing
the pool at the Olympics. So what was that like
for you?
S2 (34:11):
Yeah, obviously we know Maggie's story at the Olympics coming
so close in the 100 free. But it was really cool. Um,
it was in a sort of overflow section. And the
400 freestyle with Ariane, you could sort of soak it
in across eight laps, and you saw the storyline playing
out a little bit different to cam McEvoy, who won
the 50m freestyle. It's over in 21 seconds, so we
sort of had time to soak it in. And on
that final turn at the 350, we just knew she
(34:33):
was home and we could soak it in as Australians,
but also enjoying swimming and the beauty of it and
knowing her story and what she'd built up to it.
So it was really, really nice. It was a very
cool moment. But, um, before we run out of time,
let's talk about the book. Um, yeah. The children's book
that you have poured your heart and soul into. It
is called Felix and His Fantastic Friends. I read it
(34:55):
last night and I thought to myself, it's a book
that I would have loved to have as a kid.
It's a book that I will be giving to my niece,
and I think it's really important that all kids do
read it. Felix is your one year old. Um, inspired.
Can you just give us a little bit of a
background on why and Felix and also, um, the characters
in the book as well? Um, who I would imagine
are based on some friends you've grown up with.
S3 (35:16):
They are. They've all, um, all the characters in the
book are based off people that I know are inspired
by people that I know. Dash is a character in there. Um,
he's a double leg amputee. Was inspired by Vanessa Lowe,
one of our greatest Paralympians in athletics. But Felix and
his fantastic friends. So I have a one year old
named Felix, and I did this reality television show last year.
(35:36):
It's very well known you go into a jungle for
a month. I won't say what the show is, but
when I was in there, I began to think about.
Felix is only five weeks old, and I began to
think that he'll go to school one day and someone's
going to point out his mum has a disability, which
has happened to a lot of my Paralympic friends that
have kids, and it always ends in tears. And I've
never understood why. Because from what I've seen, being a
(35:59):
Paralympian having a disability is awesome and I absolutely love it.
Like the practical jokes, you can play on people and stuff. But, um,
it really got me thinking that I really wanted to
try and change the narrative with kids around being different
and how amazing it is to be different. And I
wanted Felix to be really proud that his mum has
a disability and is different. But it kind of got
(36:20):
me thinking that, you know, our generation, you and I,
we're not very disability confident. A lot of people aren't
very confident to discuss disability or what questions to ask,
what terminology to ask. And I think it's really important
that we try and educate the kids now about disability confidence.
And so I started doing a bit of research on disability.
(36:42):
Children's books and a lot of the characters of disability.
Children's book have a disability themselves, the main characters. And
so I actually wanted my main character to be able bodied.
And for him to go through the world and meet
all these different types of disabilities. And for the book,
it's set in a playground. And to learn about them,
(37:03):
to approach each person in a very different way, to
engage them, to be able to play. And I think
that was really important. For example, one of the characters
in my book is hearing impaired, and they they end
up deciding that, um, they're going to communicate just by
drawing a picture of a pirate ship in the sand.
And then they go off and play their pirate games.
(37:24):
And so I really wanted to give parents, as well
as kids, this resource to be able to use, to
be able to talk about disability and what it means,
but to also give them the tools to be able
to take into real life action, uh, to be able
to invite kids, to be able to just play. And
at the end of the day, I want no matter
(37:44):
what kid goes to primary school, regardless of their cultural
background or their abilities to be able to all, um,
be engaged in play and to all feel like they
have a place where they can belong. And everybody has
a responsibility to do that. I think the onus is
always put on that child. That's different, but it should
be everybody. And so that's why I really wanted to
write Felix and his Fantastic Friends, um, to give every
(38:07):
kid the tools that they need to be able to
include everybody in play. And the the feedback that I've
received from the book so far has been so great.
People are loving the diversity of the characters and the
diversity when it comes to the different types of disabilities. And, uh,
their parents are having discussions with their kids for the
first time ever about how to approach this subject matter
(38:28):
that they're not that confident about. And I'm getting lots
of thank yous from parents because they've never known how
to approach this, this topic of disability before. And this
is a resource where they can sit down with their
kids and talk about it.
S2 (38:41):
Characters in the way that they interact with Felix is
so beautiful to the real life. Humans know that they
are the characters in your book, or is it a
bit of mystery around it?
S3 (38:49):
There's a little bit of mystery around it. Um, I
know Vanessa Low knows that Dash is inspired by her. Um,
I don't know if I should say this, but one
of my best friends that I used to train with, Tanya. Um,
she's in the book, but I haven't told her.
S2 (39:06):
Okay. There you go. Exclusive.
S3 (39:08):
So there you go, Tanya. I'm just going to send
her a copy. Um, but no, she definitely inspired one
of my characters. And then Nellie, who, uh, she's on
the autism spectrum. She's actually a spitting image, the character
illustration and everything of a girl that lives up the
road from me, who's a family friend of ours, and
she sits on the autism spectrum. So I wanted to
create a character that looked exactly like her that, you know.
(39:30):
She controlled the narrative of who that character was. And
to be able to give that book to her and say, like,
this is you in a book. Um, absolutely. Like, it
put the biggest smile on her face, and it meant
a lot to her and her parents and her family
as well. Um, but it's just so nice for me
to be able to give a book, put a book
out there that exposes children to disabilities. But I've seen
(39:53):
what representation has done in sport, and I want to
see that in the playground. And so it's been nice
to be able to create a nice little handy resource
to be able to do that.
S2 (40:01):
Well, hopefully it does make a huge impact and it
is a very good book, so I would highly recommend
checking it out. And I mean that sincerely. It's really,
really good. Um, my last question is since you've retired
and kept busy and doing all sorts of things, what
inspires you to get out of bed in the morning
and motivates you?
S3 (40:16):
Um, usually Felix waking up and crying to get me
out of bed. Um, no. I've thoroughly enjoyed retirement. Uh,
I still do wake up very early. I think I
always will. Being a swimmer. but it's nice to be
able to wake up and not run straight out the
door anymore and go and swim six kilometres in a pool. Uh,
for me, I've I've really enjoyed the back in the
(40:36):
back end of my swimming career, seeing the impact that
we can have, what the athletes can have without necessarily
needing to win gold medals, you know, being really good
role models and teaching the world about the strengths that
we all have within us. And that's what what really
inspires me. I love getting out into our communities. I
love getting out into businesses and getting to know a
(40:58):
variety of different people. And, um, and just showcasing all
of the lessons that I learned as a Paralympian. It's
so much fun and I love doing it. Um, very
passionate about inclusion and disability and opportunities for everybody. And, uh,
because I've seen I've seen the impact it's had on
my own life, but the impact it's had on so
many Paralympians and, and other people with disabilities all around
(41:20):
the country. So, yeah, it's not hard to get out
of bed when you're inspired by something as important as that.
S2 (41:26):
Ellie Cole, thanks for your time. It's been a pleasure.
S3 (41:28):
Thank you. Thanks, Tom.
S1 (41:31):
That was Ellie Cole, the decorated Paralympian broadcaster and now
children's book author on the latest Good Weekend talks coming soon,
we chat with Melinda Gates, the American philanthropist, about what
one does with $30 billion. If you enjoyed this episode,
please remember to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get
(41:51):
your podcasts and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations.
Good Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney
Morning Herald and The Age proud newsrooms powered by subscriptions
to support independent journalism. Search. Subscribe. Sydney Morning Herald or
The Age? This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced
by Konrad Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery, with technical
(42:14):
assistance from Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills.
Tom McKendrick is head of audio and Greg Callahan is
the acting editor of Good Weekend.
Hi, I'm Konrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald
and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine
for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from
sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week,
you can download new episodes in which top journalists from
across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive
(00:32):
stories of the day. In this episode, we speak with
Ellie Cole. Cole, of course, is a childhood cancer survivor
whose right leg was amputated when she was three. Within
eight weeks of that operation, she was swimming as a
form of rehab, and she ultimately went on to become
the most decorated Aussie female Paralympian of all time, with
(00:52):
17 medals over four games. In recent years, she's become
a rising star in Australian sports media as a trusted
and charismatic broadcaster, not to mention a staunch disability advocate.
She joins us today with a new title. Children's book author.
Cole recently became a mum to her little boy, Felix,
and her new book, Felix and His Fantastic Friends, is
(01:16):
inspired by his adventures in early childhood and her own
in motherhood. And hosting this conversation about everything from Cole's
relationship with her twin sister to the arcane challenges of
Paralympic classification is a man who's covered Cole's final games
in Tokyo in 2021, and that Sydney Morning Herald sports
journalist Tom decent.
S2 (01:38):
Thank you Conrad. Well, it's a huge pleasure to welcome
Ellie Cole into the Good Weekend Studios. So what's harder
Ellie winning multiple Paralympic gold medals, presenting on live television,
being a mum or writing a children's book, which is
very good, by the way.
S3 (01:53):
Thank you. Is there an option for all of the
above there? Um, I think a lot of people think
winning a gold medal is hard, but it's actually the
work to get there. That's hard. The winning bit is
just putting it all together, so maybe not so much.
Being a mum. I think training for being an athlete
actually got me ready for being a mum, because I
was waking up at 4:00 every morning. I'm still doing
exactly the same thing as a mum. Um, so I
(02:14):
was kind of born for that. Writing a children's book
has probably been the hardest because it's an area that
I'm absolutely not familiar with. And, um, I got a
lot of writer's block. I don't know how you write
every day, Tom, because it's so difficult.
S2 (02:28):
Particularly when there's a loud crowd and you're at a
stadium or a pool and the crowd is going full on,
and you have to send that copy off very, very soon. But, um, yeah.
How was how was the deadline world?
S3 (02:37):
The deadline world was fine. Um, I love working towards
a deadline. When I was an athlete, we always had
the deadline of being a World Championships or a Paralympic Games.
And so I always had a really good plan to
how to work backwards from that. And it was no
different with writing a children's book. And it's probably going
to be no different with any industry that an athlete
works in. Um, but when you have the writer's block
and you don't have anybody else there to tell you
(02:57):
what to do, like when you're an athlete. Like, you
just do this and you'll be fine. That was the
challenging part. And, um, pulling out, you know, the creativity
was really challenging as well, but I loved I loved it.
I knew that I had a good story to tell,
and I knew that it was an important message to
get out to the world. And I think that that
helped me a lot when I was experiencing writer's block,
because I would always just fall back on why I
(03:18):
was doing it in the first place.
S2 (03:19):
We will get on to the book. You are a
very busy person. Um, was there a deadline on the
Ellie Cole Swimming Arena that you're building at the moment
as well? Can you tell us about that little project
on your Insta?
S3 (03:30):
Absolutely. So I purchased this house about a year and
a half ago, uh, with my partner. We're expecting our
first child, Felix. And, um, we bought this place that
was maybe built about 40 years ago and has not
been renovated since. And the backyard was very Italian, and
I thought, this place is very well built. I probably
won't touch anything but the backyard. We need a swimming
(03:50):
pool in there. Of course, I can't be an athlete
and a swimmer without having a swimming pool. Um, and
so the last four months or something, we've been renovating
our entire backyard. We've put a swimming pool in there.
So Felix loves swimming, my son. And he'll be definitely
jumping in every day. He already wants to jump in.
It's not heated or anything yet, and there's still, like
tile fragments in the bottom. But the l'École swimming Center
(04:12):
is coming to life, and I shan't be raising my
heart rate above 90 when I'm in there. I'll probably
just be laying on a little lilo. Maybe you have
a nice beverage in my hand and enjoy the sun
and relaxing after a very long swimming career.
S2 (04:27):
You are Australia's most decorated female Paralympian. I'm fascinated in
athletes after they give up their sport, whether they like
to still dabble in it recreationally. Do you still swim? Like?
Do you have the bug to get out and bang
out a few laps?
S3 (04:39):
I don't, um, I would love to. I still love
and enjoy swimming when I do. I think I've only
swam maybe three times in the last two and a half,
three years since I've retired. It's just such an effort
to go to a swimming pool and you get your
hair wet. It's it's a It's a lot of effort
after as well. What I have done is I've built
(04:59):
this home gym in my house, so I still train.
I try 3 or 4 times a week. It's a
bit hard when you have a son, um, a one
year old son for that matter. But the swimming side
of things to actually get in the car and drive
to a swimming pool, I'm just not really there yet.
S2 (05:15):
And I thought it's a very active people. It was interesting.
I was lucky enough to cover the tail end of
your career. I believe I interviewed you before the Tokyo
Paralympics and, um, was one of a few handful of
Australian newspaper journalists to go and cover those Paralympics, which
were very unique. As we know, during the height of Covid,
we would have done lockdown together, I presume, on our
way back to Australia. Um, I don't know about you,
(05:36):
but how did you keep sane during that period? Um,
after after that, in lockdown.
S3 (05:40):
How did you go in there?
S2 (05:42):
I hired an exercise bike. I paid 200 bucks and
then delivered it to my room. And I sat on
that bike for two weeks because I needed something to do.
I don't know about you. Being an athlete in that period.
Must've been pretty tricky.
S3 (05:51):
So you went through the Covid lockdown shred? I did
the same thing. Actually. I would do this. Um, I
would have kind of the same routine every day where
I would wake up and I would exercise straight away.
And there was one day in there, I think it
was about day seven, where I didn't do any exercise
as soon as I woke up, and it was the
hardest day in lockdown. I experienced so much anxiety, but
I was getting up and exercising every day and then
(06:13):
there was nothing else to do. So I would do
a training session in the afternoon as well, and I
was probably more fit leaving that hotel quarantine than I
was when I was an athlete. But the bit that
I did in the middle was eat like a bag
of Doritos and like six cornettos. And when you're an
athlete returning back from the Paralympic Games, I don't know
if you remember, but a lot of athletes were receiving
just like random gifts from people that were just sending
(06:36):
them straight to our hotel rooms. So I was getting
all of these, like, baked goods, ice creams. People were
sending me like Uber Eats, like Queen Chow for dinner.
And I was like, this is so great, but I
definitely overate. But also overexercise probably too, there was nothing
else to do. And there was there.
S2 (06:51):
No, I had a friend who sent a carton of beer,
but you weren't allowed the full case of beer. They
though rationed the beer each night because there were issues
in quarantine for some people with alcohol. So a very
wild experience. But it's so great to have you in
and and cover off your career and talk about the
book as well. But tell us a little bit about
your childhood as well, Ellie.
S3 (07:10):
So, um, I grew up in the eastern suburbs of Victoria.
I was actually born as an able bodied girl, which
a lot of people don't know. I was wasn't born
with my disability. Um, and I was born alongside my
twin sister, who's also able bodied. But I was diagnosed
with cancer when I was about two. And so I
underwent this whole year of chemotherapy. Um, I was stuck
in hospitals. I didn't really know what was happening. Like,
(07:32):
how do you explain to a two year old that
they're so sick? And eventually, uh, the chemotherapy was making
me more sick. It was killing a lot of my
white blood cells than the actual cancer was. And so
we had to stop that chemotherapy, but at risk of
it spreading, uh, we had to amputate my leg. And
that's actually how I lost my leg. But the silver
lining in that whole story is that a few weeks
(07:53):
after my amputation, I was quite literally thrown into a
swimming pool for rehabilitation. And that's where my whole swimming
story began. Um, and I loved the water. I loved
the freedom that it gave me. I could take off
my prosthetic. I could be the same as my twin sister.
And nobody even knew that I was different when I
was in the pool. Um, and I loved that aspect
of it. I loved being treated as an equal because
(08:15):
growing up in the 1990s with a disability, that that
that wasn't necessarily the case. Disability isn't known as it
is now. And, you know, you didn't see people with
disabilities in the community or even securing employment. Definitely not
on television, that's for sure. And the media portrayal was
really negative. So it was it was not a good
time in my life to acquire a disability. But I'm
(08:38):
really thankful that I found sport and eventually the Paralympic Movement,
when I was about ten years old and went on
to become a Paralympian, and with that platform, was able
to completely reshape the way that people perceive others with
disabilities and in turn, probably perceive the way what they
can achieve within themselves as well. So it was it
was a difficult start to my life, quite tumultuous. But
(09:01):
finding sport, finding the Paralympics, like we've heard Dylan Alcott say,
it saved his life. And if I look back at mine,
it's made my life completely different to how my parents
first imagined that it would be when they knew that
their daughter was going to have a disability. So it's, um,
definitely opened up my world in terms of becoming an
elite athlete. I was actually really inspired by the Sydney
2000 Olympians. I loved Ian Thorpe, and it was amazing
(09:25):
to be able to work on the Olympics with him
in Paris as well. I just was pinching myself and
Giaan Rooney, who was over in Paris with the Nine Network. Um,
I idolized her growing up as well, like there was
this one training session I remember when I was little
and she was doing theraband exercises. She was still an
athlete and part of her theraband like, popped off and
landed in my lane, and I gave it to her
(09:45):
and she took it out of my hand and I
was like, this is the best day of my life.
And and I remember going back to my swimming club
and telling the story about how John Rooney, like her,
basically like rehabilitation equipment, broke down into my lane and
it made us it made our newsletter like it was.
It was awesome. So to be able to work on
the Olympics with Thorpe and John was really cool, but
(10:06):
they're the ones that really inspired me to become an
elite athlete. Um, I wasn't actually inspired by Paralympians because
I didn't know about the Paralympics until I was around
about 11 years old or 12 years old. And then
once I discovered the Paralympics and I saw, you know,
double leg amputees bounding down athletics tracks and all of
the amazing things that we saw in Paris with our athletes,
(10:27):
I just was hooked. And I couldn't wait to become
a Paralympian. And it was awesome. It's been a great career.
S2 (10:33):
Tell me about your relationship with your twin, Brittany. She's
able bodied but incredibly supportive throughout your childhood as well. Um,
tell me about that dynamic growing up.
S3 (10:41):
It's a really difficult thing for me to talk about
and even comprehend, really, the relationship that I have with
my sister, because obviously neither of us chose for me to.
To become sick when I was little with cancer. And unfortunately,
when there is a child that has cancer, that to
that child is number one priority. To get them better
(11:03):
and to get them rehabilitated and back on their feet again.
And the siblings often become a bit of collateral damage
in that process. So when I was sick, I was
going through chemotherapy for a year. My siblings were all
at home, being taken care of by my father and
my grandmother. And, um, I think that long term, there's
probably been a few consequences of that where, you know,
(11:27):
getting me better was first priority, and then focusing on
my swimming career was a really big priority in my
family as well. And my sister has always been that
person that has always lifted me up. So she, you know,
was a really important part of my rehabilitation. She taught
me how to walk again. She taught me how to
ride a bike. She took me by the hand and
pulled me along in her life and taught me how
(11:48):
to do all of these incredible things that the doctors
told me that I would never be able to do,
you know, climbing trees and roller skating and all of
these amazing things. And so my childhood was so picture perfect,
despite the difficult start, because of my sister. Um, but unfortunately, like,
throughout our childhood and then even onto our adulthood, I
(12:10):
feel like she's always sacrificed so much to be able
for me to be able to achieve. And she's actually
training for the Olympics herself. She's training in the sport
of shooting. And it was nice for me to be
able to retire, because it was like I could really
stand back and give her her moment. Um, and yeah,
she's been an amazing support for me, and she always
will be. And we are the best of friends, but
(12:33):
I it's hard for me to be able to look
at our relationship without thinking of all the things that
in a way, because of my cancer and my sporting career, that,
you know, there are a lot of opportunities that I
took away from her so that I could get them.
And now I think for me, I owe her for
the rest of my life, and I'm going to do
everything that I can to make sure that she's happy.
(12:53):
And if she wants to go to the Olympics, we'll
support her to get there. If she wants to do
something else, we'll support her to get there. But, um,
she's been an amazing, amazing person in my life, and
I definitely would not have been able to achieve everything
that I have if she wasn't around.
S2 (13:06):
As a child, I would imagine it is difficult being
told the things you can't do. So how does that
compare to the joy of being told you're on your
first Australian Paralympic team in 2008 for the Beijing Games?
S3 (13:17):
It was interesting. You know, the moment I left hospital,
my parents were given this whole list of things that
I would struggle with, and they were really simple things
that I look back at now being like, well, that's interesting.
And it really taught me a lot about the, you know,
medical model of disability, where if you look at someone
that has a disability or an impairment and, you know,
you look at them as what that impairment is disabling
(13:39):
them to do, of course, that's the way that the
doctors are going to look at me. But throughout the
last 20 years of having a disability, we've really shifted
in our society towards more of the social model. So
changing our environment to accommodate as many people as we
can to be able to achieve what we're able to
achieve in sport. It was hard for me growing up
with a disability, because the Olympic team and the able
(14:01):
bodied team were obviously the Australian swim team. We all
know what they're like. They're so, um, idolised and for
very good reason. They're the best in the world and
have been for such a long time. But the Paralympic
team were always an afterthought, and they were always the
ones that, um, you know, if funding got cut, it
was always from our program. Um, it was always really
(14:22):
challenging to see, you know, the Olympic team staying in
these incredible hotels. And then I remember this one hotel
we stayed in with the Paralympic team where we were
all expected to share, like this giant room with like
15 bunk beds in there. And it was hard growing
up in an environment where I knew that I wanted
to achieve amazing things as an elite athlete, but I
wasn't necessarily receiving the support from either the sporting organisations
(14:46):
I was for my swimming club, but from various different people. Um,
and that was always really challenging. So for me to
be able to be told that I couldn't do or
achieve the same things as somebody that had two legs
growing up. It probably could have been quite detrimental. But
for me, it really was a fire in my belly to, um,
(15:07):
show people what I could actually do. So to then
be announced on my first Paralympic team when I was
like 16 was so exciting. I don't think I understood
the gravity of the Paralympic Games in that moment, though, because, um,
for me, I knew I was just like, I could
leave school for about three months, go and travel off
to Beijing in 2008 and, um, represent Australia. I didn't
(15:30):
really realise, I suppose, the responsibility that an athlete can
have and the impact that an athlete can have in
a wider sense, probably until I was much older. So
I did have a very good time over there. In Beijing,
I won a silver and two bronze, which was really
surprising for everybody, including myself. Um, but I think it
was probably more a catalyst than anything for the rest
(15:53):
of my career. Um, I, I wish that a lot
of athletes that went to their first Olympics or Paralympics
could just, like, put the old plates on and understand
that that first games is, you know, a real experience
to understand what the whole movement, Olympics or Paralympics is
really about. Um, I definitely had my old plates on.
I didn't know what I was doing.
S2 (16:14):
And a little known fact is that you had a
little foray into basketball as well.
S3 (16:17):
Yeah, I did. Um, so I competed at two Paralympic
Games in swimming before I decided to try a bit
of basketball. The reason why I decided wheelchair basketball in particular,
was I had a double shoulder reconstruction, um, after London.
And I took some time out of the pool and
I went along to this, like, come and try wheelchair
basketball day. And my shoulders were still so strong from
(16:38):
my swimming career, and I was incredibly competitive. Um, and
so I would kind of just barge my way into
the key. Someone would throw me the ball, I would
shoot it towards the hoop. It would miss 99% of
the time. But, um, a lot of the coaches from
the Australian team saw my competitive nature, um, my strength, um,
(17:00):
my ability to pick up skills and take instructions from
being an athlete really, really well and decided that, um,
they might want to start, you know, making me into
this Australian wheelchair basketball player. But I ended up going
back into swimming, um, as my first love. And I
don't regret it, because then I went on to compete
at another two Paralympic Games after that.
S2 (17:21):
You end up winning six gold, five silver and six
bronze medals at the Paralympics. How did the Paralympic Movement
change in that time? From 2008, and your first team
to 2021, in Tokyo when you finished with the Australian
swim team?
S3 (17:34):
Uh, I don't think I've ever seen anything like the
way that the Paralympic movement has changed the perception of
an entire minority group in such a quick amount of time,
a short amount of time. It was pretty remarkable. You know,
if I look back at Beijing 2008, I had only
really just learned what the Paralympic Games was. It wasn't
on television. It definitely wasn't really reported on that widely.
(17:57):
In fact, even if you look back now, historically, you'd
probably be hard pressed to find a lot of media
content around the Beijing Paralympic Games. And I remember, you know,
swimming and winning three medals and coming home back to
the airport. There wasn't really any media waiting. It was
like my mum and dad and my my siblings. Um,
(18:17):
if we go fast forward four years to the London 2012,
they did an incredible job at running those games, Olympics
and Paralympics. And I remember around the Paralympic Games, um,
in the lead up to the games they ran this
campaign called Meet the Superhumans. It was this incredible campaign
about how Paralympic athletes were, like, superhuman. In a way.
(18:39):
It was just it's an awesome ad. I encourage you
to watch it. It's on YouTube. And the whole country
in the the whole of the United Kingdom. Really, um,
just fell in love with this Paralympic movement. And I
remember going to London the year after 2012 and competing
in swimming. And I was walking down the street with
a short statured girl myself who was a leg amputee. Um,
(19:02):
Ahmed Kelly, who has no arms and no legs, and
Grant Scooter Patterson, who's the tiny guy on a little scooter.
And I was thinking, we're going to be a real
sight here, and we're going to get a lot of
people do double takes. And we went down the street
and no one looked at us twice. And it was
just a bizarre for me to always be stared at
in the streets of Australia, to go to the UK
(19:23):
and no one even looking twice at. But honestly, it
sounded like the start of a joke. Like the four
of us walking down the street. And, um, it was incredible,
the support that the United Kingdom gave to the Paralympic uh,
team from GB and, um, completely changed the story of
the Paralympics. But then when we moved forward another four
(19:44):
years to the Rio 2016 games. There was a lot of, um,
issues around the way that that those games were managed
by the organising committee. The Olympics started to run out
of money, and so they took the money from the
Paralympics and put it into the Olympics. So by the
time we got there, we had effectively run out of
money to even run the games. And so everything got cut.
(20:05):
And like there was pretty much no bus schedules in
the dining hall. There was like two stalls open for,
you know, 600 athletes or even more, thousands of athletes. And, um,
I really noticed. I really remember sitting there thinking like,
this is a huge step back from London and thinking
that it would always continue to be that way. And
(20:27):
I was actually planning to retire after Rio, but then
I was like, there's no way I can retire after
a games like this. It was an awful experience, actually,
to go to those games. And so I decided to
commit to Tokyo because I knew the Japanese were going
to run an incredible games and a couple of years
training in towards Tokyo. Then Covid happens and I was like,
of course it's going to be games that is not
(20:48):
going to live up to the potential that it really has. But,
you know, you know what Tokyo was like. It was
incredible experience. Despite Covid, despite all the lockdowns and Covid
testing and limited ability to move around. It was an
incredible games. And the silver lining, I won't say the
wonderful thing is, but the silver lining in it is
(21:09):
that the Australian community were all at home. The Olympics
and Paralympics was this beacon of light in this period
of darkness for the world. And, um, I think people
really fell in love with our Paralympic team during the
Tokyo Games. And obviously the huge announcement of pay parity
as well was incredibly important there.
S2 (21:31):
You may not remember, but I interviewed you on that
day that that happened, I believe even potentially before your
race where you won your 17th medal at the Paralympics.
And that was a huge day for all involved, wasn't it?
with the announcement from the federal government that there would
be pay parity with prize money for Olympic and Paralympic athletes.
You posted a video on social media, I believe, on
(21:53):
the morning of your race. Quite emotional at what that meant,
given that you had been one of the oldest members
of the team and sort of seen that from the beginning.
How was that day to then deal with that and
then get up and race?
S3 (22:05):
Yeah, I remember that day really well. And I remember
that interview. I think you were the only interview that
I did about the pay parity, actually. Um, that announcement
for me really took me by surprise. Initially, I thought
that all of Australia knew that Paralympians weren't paid in
the same way as Olympic athletes in terms of, um,
(22:27):
prize money. And, uh, that wasn't the case at all.
Australia didn't know. And, um, when they did find out,
eventually there was absolute outrage from all Australians about why, um, Um,
you know, Olympians were being paid prize money and Paralympians weren't.
And for me, as a Paralympian, that was really nice
(22:50):
to see our country stand up for people with disabilities.
Paralympic athletes, because I'd seen it in drip fed to
me and I could see it improving over time. But
that was an avalanche of support from Australia. And the
announcement itself made me really emotional because my whole life
I had been fighting to be seen as equal, and
(23:14):
I spent my swimming career training in Olympic training programs.
I trained alongside Cate and Bronte Campbell for three years,
and I would always go off to separate competitions and
always be treated so differently. And it wasn't just me,
it was our whole Paralympic team that I was fighting
for to be seen as these incredible elite athletes that
we are. Um, this pay parity announcement did make me
(23:36):
emotional because I think it was just two decades of
that fighting and me being absolutely exhausted at the end
of my career. And that announcement was made on the
very last day of my Paralympic career. Like, it was
almost poetic. You couldn't write that. And, um, I did
the interview with you about what it meant, and then
(23:56):
I went off to the swimming pool, and I raced
my last ever race for Australia at a Paralympic Games,
and that was in a relay. And we won a
bronze medal, um, that night. And I remember warming up
for that event and I was still crying from the announcement.
My goggles were filling up with tears, and I had
to keep emptying them in the warm up pool. And
I remember pulling myself out of the pool, sitting on
the edge and looking at the pool, all these competitors
(24:18):
warming up and just taking in that last moment and
reflecting on how much the Paralympics has changed. And it
was a big, big day for us. Now winning that
medal that night, it made me Australia's most decorated female Paralympian.
That was my 17th medal. We won a bronze in
the relay. But what was really special about that race
in particular is because the announcement was made. I was
(24:39):
sharing the podium with this young girl who was only
15 years old. And her name is Izzy Vincent. Um,
she was her first Paralympic Games, and she was at
a really similar age to when I started in the Paralympics,
and her and I went back to the athletes village,
just to just her and I together that night after
the announcement was made, and I asked Izzy what it
(25:00):
meant to her to be receiving prize money and recognition
in that sense, for the first time ever. And her
ever was much shorter than my ever. But, um, I
remember she told me she was going to buy a car,
and she was really excited, and she was really focused
on like, you know, as a 15 year old, I
think she'd won like $15,000 or something. It was a
lot of money for a 15 year old. She was stoked, obviously, understandably. But, um,
(25:24):
I kind of smiled at her. I'm like, no, but
what does it mean to you? Like, what does this
mean to you? The announcement. And she's like, yeah, it's good.
And I was like, okay, you don't get you don't
really get what I mean. In terms I'm like, you know,
that Paralympians for the last 60, 65 years have never
been paid up until this moment. Right. And she's like, yeah.
And I'm like, and what does that mean to you?
(25:45):
She's like, yeah, it's good. And then I almost started
thinking like, okay, I need to like give her a
bit of a history lesson on the Paralympics here. But
then I was like, no, I'm just going to leave
it because she doesn't really need to understand how hard
we had to fight. She doesn't need to understand what
we went through as Paralympic athletes. Um, and she was
in a very different generation in terms of sport than
(26:05):
what I was. And she was going to go for
the rest of her career being seen in a way
that that the Paralympians before her never were. And I
remember thinking like, that's just such a nice moment. Like
we actually separated paths. And I knew she was quite
literally going to be going down a very different path
than what I did. And I remember thinking like, that
is worth more than any gold medal. Like that moment.
(26:26):
And I can guarantee that since that day, I've thought
about that conversation almost every day with Izzy since that happened.
And I can guarantee you that she's not thought about
that conversation once. There is no way she's thought about
that conversation again.
S2 (26:41):
If only they'd backed out of your prize money. I
think I asked you that at the time, and, uh, unfortunately,
they didn't. So we move on.
S3 (26:47):
That's fine. I'm happy with what we got in the end.
S2 (27:00):
The the issue of classification is a tricky one in
Paralympic sport with prize money in. Do you see issues
with that in the future where athletes, even that money
is at stake, might try and gain an advantage with classification?
Like where do you see that issue at?
S3 (27:15):
The integrity of Paralympic sport is at a very high
risk at the moment. You know, if you think about, um,
able bodied sport, obviously a lot of focus on how
to gain an advantage is around doping. And so obviously
that's heavily, heavily criticized, which is the way it should be.
And it's very heavily moderated. And um, there are very
strict standards with what athletes are and aren't able to take.
(27:37):
Like when I was an athlete, I wasn't even allowed
to take cold and flu medication. Um, so in the
able bodied world, that's that's the issues that they have
at hand in the Paralympic world, we have this thing
called intentional misrepresentation, and we are already seeing a few
cases here and there from around the world of this happening.
And effectively, why it's happening is, like you've just said,
(27:59):
Paralympic sport is becoming, um, you know, very heavily sponsored. Um,
you can, as an athlete get brand endorsements, prize money. Um,
you actually earn a living for the first time ever.
And because of this, we are seeing more athletes who
are going to their classification process and maybe, um, intentionally
(28:21):
misrepresenting what their what their disability is or the severity
of their disability, trying to be put into a different
classification than what they actually should be. And it's really hard. Um,
it is really, really hard to catch, catch these athletes
that are doing that because, for example, if you have
cerebral palsy and you have quite a severe case, if
(28:42):
you start training in the sport of swimming, you can
become stronger and you can learn how to use your
body a little bit better. Then a lot of athletes
then are the consequence of that is that when they
go back to classification, they say, oh, your disability is
not as bad as it was before, so we're going
to move you into this class instead. And so there
needs to be like a sense of what their actual
disability impairment is versus what their training has been able
(29:03):
to do, and vice versa. And so we are seeing
athletes begin to intentionally misrepresent what their disability is. Unfortunately,
there is a lot of commentary around the athletes as well.
But at the end of the day, athletes, we aren't
medical professionals. We aren't doctors. We don't know what people's
disabilities really are or what impact that has on their life.
So it's really hard for us to make a comment
(29:25):
on that. But it still happens. Um, the International Paralympic
Committee are doing the best that they can. Paralympics, Australia,
we're doing the best that we can as well. We've
actually have a panel, um, where we go through, you know,
suggested cases where it may be happening here. We hope
that it isn't, but it's probably likely going to begin
(29:46):
to happen in every country, particularly as the Paralympics gains
more and more momentum, which is happening very quickly. It's
like a steam train that you can't stop the Paralympics. So, um,
I'm really thankful. At the beginning of my career, I
never felt like I was competing against athletes that had
an unfair advantage over me. But towards the back end
of my career, I definitely saw cases where I would
(30:07):
be competing against people that had two arms and two
legs that were box jumping 100cm. But as an athlete,
I couldn't do anything about that. So I just had
to do the best that I could to try and
produce the best times and give Australia the best chance
to make the podium. But it's so frustrating as an
athlete when you put everything that you can into something
and then you see somebody come into your classification that,
(30:29):
you know, almost looks completely able bodied and, um, smokes
you out of the water and there's nothing you can
do about it.
S2 (30:36):
You've kept very busy in retirement. I wouldn't call it retirement.
You've been so busy. It's daily. It's barely retirement. You
were lucky enough to be in Paris for channel nine,
doing Olympics poolside interviews at the pool. How does that
compare to being an athlete? What did you make of
that experience? And as someone who has done that, I
know the scary element of live telly. But on a
(30:58):
level like that, where all of Australia is watching, how
did you feel about the privilege of being able to
ask the first question of Australia's swimmers coming out and
winning medals?
S3 (31:06):
It's a huge privilege and I know you've done this
before with the Australian swim team as well. Our Australian
swim team is incredible, so to have the chance to
be that first point of contact when they get out
of the pool after what could arguably be the biggest
moment of their life or the biggest disappointment up to
that date? Um, it's a massive responsibility. And as an athlete,
I know exactly what those feelings that they're going through are.
(31:29):
For Emma McKeon, who is racing at her last Olympics,
I know how it feels to get out of the
pool after her career was like probably the same length
as mine almost 16 years, and walk away from that
stadium for the last time. It's the most it's so emotional. And, um,
it was it was hard because on one hand, I
(31:50):
was the old athlete who had grown up with all
of these swimmers and knew so many very personal things
about them and what they're experiencing themselves as well. And then,
on the other hand, I was also just this massive
swimming fan who was so excited to be there. So
I had to kind of try and blend both of
those two things together. But at the end of the day,
(32:11):
I know that when I was an athlete and I
was being interviewed, I really wanted the person first to
come out of this interview, and I wanted to make
sure that I was giving these athletes the same opportunity that, um,
you know, at the end of the day, it was
their moment. And, um, it was nice for me to
be there, but it was their moment. And there was
(32:31):
something pretty cool, though, about in Tokyo, you know, watching
Ariarne Titmus and Katie Ledecky and all of that, and
then being over in Paris and seeing that same race
play out again and then seeing like Arnie walk up
and then Katie walk past me, I was seriously the
biggest swimming. And I was like, getting selfies with all these, um,
cool athletes in the background that I'd seen on TV,
but I'd never seen in real life because, well, the
(32:53):
Paralympics is different. I was always training when the Olympics
were on, so I was just so excited to be there.
But I didn't know if I told you when I
was over in Paris, I can't speak any French. I
thought I was eating yogurt every morning for breakfast. I
was apparently eating a bowl of cheese, but like always.
S2 (33:10):
I do love that over there. The, uh, the cheese.
S4 (33:12):
It looks just like Greek yogurt.
S3 (33:14):
And it almost tastes almost tastes the same in some sense. But, um,
I just loved the experience of being over there, being
in a country where I couldn't speak the language. And
when the Olympics were on and it being, you know,
the hotel with all the nine nine crew and how
amazingly accommodating, um, the channel nine team were and lovely
and had the best time. I really did, and I
(33:34):
hope I get to do every Olympics from. Now until
I'm like 150 because it was a really good time.
S2 (33:41):
We did a fabulous job, but unfortunately we, the reporters
in the stadium can't hear your commentary. We can see
you down there and we're up the back a little bit.
So I remember sitting next to James Magnussen during Arnie's
400 free win, and that was just special, a huge moment.
And the stadium was rocking completely different to Tokyo on
many different levels.
S3 (33:56):
So what was it like to be with Maggie there?
Because obviously he's experienced well, as a Paralympian, I've experienced
something very similar, obviously being at the Paralympics. Um, but
you were sitting next to an Olympian who was racing
the pool at the Olympics. So what was that like
for you?
S2 (34:11):
Yeah, obviously we know Maggie's story at the Olympics coming
so close in the 100 free. But it was really cool. Um,
it was in a sort of overflow section. And the
400 freestyle with Ariane, you could sort of soak it
in across eight laps, and you saw the storyline playing
out a little bit different to cam McEvoy, who won
the 50m freestyle. It's over in 21 seconds, so we
sort of had time to soak it in. And on
that final turn at the 350, we just knew she
(34:33):
was home and we could soak it in as Australians,
but also enjoying swimming and the beauty of it and
knowing her story and what she'd built up to it.
So it was really, really nice. It was a very
cool moment. But, um, before we run out of time,
let's talk about the book. Um, yeah. The children's book
that you have poured your heart and soul into. It
is called Felix and His Fantastic Friends. I read it
(34:55):
last night and I thought to myself, it's a book
that I would have loved to have as a kid.
It's a book that I will be giving to my niece,
and I think it's really important that all kids do
read it. Felix is your one year old. Um, inspired.
Can you just give us a little bit of a
background on why and Felix and also, um, the characters
in the book as well? Um, who I would imagine
are based on some friends you've grown up with.
S3 (35:16):
They are. They've all, um, all the characters in the
book are based off people that I know are inspired
by people that I know. Dash is a character in there. Um,
he's a double leg amputee. Was inspired by Vanessa Lowe,
one of our greatest Paralympians in athletics. But Felix and
his fantastic friends. So I have a one year old
named Felix, and I did this reality television show last year.
(35:36):
It's very well known you go into a jungle for
a month. I won't say what the show is, but
when I was in there, I began to think about.
Felix is only five weeks old, and I began to
think that he'll go to school one day and someone's
going to point out his mum has a disability, which
has happened to a lot of my Paralympic friends that
have kids, and it always ends in tears. And I've
never understood why. Because from what I've seen, being a
(35:59):
Paralympian having a disability is awesome and I absolutely love it.
Like the practical jokes, you can play on people and stuff. But, um,
it really got me thinking that I really wanted to
try and change the narrative with kids around being different
and how amazing it is to be different. And I
wanted Felix to be really proud that his mum has
a disability and is different. But it kind of got
(36:20):
me thinking that, you know, our generation, you and I,
we're not very disability confident. A lot of people aren't
very confident to discuss disability or what questions to ask,
what terminology to ask. And I think it's really important
that we try and educate the kids now about disability confidence.
And so I started doing a bit of research on disability.
(36:42):
Children's books and a lot of the characters of disability.
Children's book have a disability themselves, the main characters. And
so I actually wanted my main character to be able bodied.
And for him to go through the world and meet
all these different types of disabilities. And for the book,
it's set in a playground. And to learn about them,
(37:03):
to approach each person in a very different way, to
engage them, to be able to play. And I think
that was really important. For example, one of the characters
in my book is hearing impaired, and they they end
up deciding that, um, they're going to communicate just by
drawing a picture of a pirate ship in the sand.
And then they go off and play their pirate games.
(37:24):
And so I really wanted to give parents, as well
as kids, this resource to be able to use, to
be able to talk about disability and what it means,
but to also give them the tools to be able
to take into real life action, uh, to be able
to invite kids, to be able to just play. And
at the end of the day, I want no matter
(37:44):
what kid goes to primary school, regardless of their cultural
background or their abilities to be able to all, um,
be engaged in play and to all feel like they
have a place where they can belong. And everybody has
a responsibility to do that. I think the onus is
always put on that child. That's different, but it should
be everybody. And so that's why I really wanted to
write Felix and his Fantastic Friends, um, to give every
(38:07):
kid the tools that they need to be able to
include everybody in play. And the the feedback that I've
received from the book so far has been so great.
People are loving the diversity of the characters and the
diversity when it comes to the different types of disabilities. And, uh,
their parents are having discussions with their kids for the
first time ever about how to approach this subject matter
(38:28):
that they're not that confident about. And I'm getting lots
of thank yous from parents because they've never known how
to approach this, this topic of disability before. And this
is a resource where they can sit down with their
kids and talk about it.
S2 (38:41):
Characters in the way that they interact with Felix is
so beautiful to the real life. Humans know that they
are the characters in your book, or is it a
bit of mystery around it?
S3 (38:49):
There's a little bit of mystery around it. Um, I
know Vanessa Low knows that Dash is inspired by her. Um,
I don't know if I should say this, but one
of my best friends that I used to train with, Tanya. Um,
she's in the book, but I haven't told her.
S2 (39:06):
Okay. There you go. Exclusive.
S3 (39:08):
So there you go, Tanya. I'm just going to send
her a copy. Um, but no, she definitely inspired one
of my characters. And then Nellie, who, uh, she's on
the autism spectrum. She's actually a spitting image, the character
illustration and everything of a girl that lives up the
road from me, who's a family friend of ours, and
she sits on the autism spectrum. So I wanted to
create a character that looked exactly like her that, you know.
(39:30):
She controlled the narrative of who that character was. And
to be able to give that book to her and say, like,
this is you in a book. Um, absolutely. Like, it
put the biggest smile on her face, and it meant
a lot to her and her parents and her family
as well. Um, but it's just so nice for me
to be able to give a book, put a book
out there that exposes children to disabilities. But I've seen
(39:53):
what representation has done in sport, and I want to
see that in the playground. And so it's been nice
to be able to create a nice little handy resource
to be able to do that.
S2 (40:01):
Well, hopefully it does make a huge impact and it
is a very good book, so I would highly recommend
checking it out. And I mean that sincerely. It's really,
really good. Um, my last question is since you've retired
and kept busy and doing all sorts of things, what
inspires you to get out of bed in the morning
and motivates you?
S3 (40:16):
Um, usually Felix waking up and crying to get me
out of bed. Um, no. I've thoroughly enjoyed retirement. Uh,
I still do wake up very early. I think I
always will. Being a swimmer. but it's nice to be
able to wake up and not run straight out the
door anymore and go and swim six kilometres in a pool. Uh,
for me, I've I've really enjoyed the back in the
(40:36):
back end of my swimming career, seeing the impact that
we can have, what the athletes can have without necessarily
needing to win gold medals, you know, being really good
role models and teaching the world about the strengths that
we all have within us. And that's what what really
inspires me. I love getting out into our communities. I
love getting out into businesses and getting to know a
(40:58):
variety of different people. And, um, and just showcasing all
of the lessons that I learned as a Paralympian. It's
so much fun and I love doing it. Um, very
passionate about inclusion and disability and opportunities for everybody. And, uh,
because I've seen I've seen the impact it's had on
my own life, but the impact it's had on so
many Paralympians and, and other people with disabilities all around
(41:20):
the country. So, yeah, it's not hard to get out
of bed when you're inspired by something as important as that.
S2 (41:26):
Ellie Cole, thanks for your time. It's been a pleasure.
S3 (41:28):
Thank you. Thanks, Tom.
S1 (41:31):
That was Ellie Cole, the decorated Paralympian broadcaster and now
children's book author on the latest Good Weekend talks coming soon,
we chat with Melinda Gates, the American philanthropist, about what
one does with $30 billion. If you enjoyed this episode,
please remember to subscribe, rate and comment wherever you get
(41:51):
your podcasts and keep tuning in for more compelling conversations.
Good Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney
Morning Herald and The Age proud newsrooms powered by subscriptions
to support independent journalism. Search. Subscribe. Sydney Morning Herald or
The Age? This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced
by Konrad Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery, with technical
(42:14):
assistance from Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills.
Tom McKendrick is head of audio and Greg Callahan is
the acting editor of Good Weekend.
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