July 11, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode, we talk to Danielle de Niese. The internationally acclaimed soprano has dazzled audiences since childhood – from her breakthrough on the TV show Young Talent Time at just nine years old to starring on the world’s greatest opera stages. She joins us to chat about her life in music, and what keeps her voice – and spirit – so vibrant. Following a remarkable path which also includes an early Emmy win and teenage debut with the Los Angeles Opera, de Niese now has a passion for making opera feel fresh, cool and accessible to new audiences. Hosting this conversation – about everything from backstage rituals and vocal care to what it truly feels like to stand under stage lights and inhabit a role – is Spectrum editor Melanie Kembrey.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:15):
Hi, I'm Konrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald
and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine
for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from
sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week,
you can download new episodes in which top journalists from
across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive
(00:37):
stories of the day. In this episode, we talk to
Danielle de Niese. The internationally acclaimed soprano has dazzled audiences
since childhood, from her breakthrough on Young Talent Time at
just nine years old to starring on the world's greatest
opera stages. She joins us to chat about her life
in music and what keeps her voice and spirit so vibrant.
(01:00):
We also take a look at Daniel's remarkable path from
her early Emmy win and teenage debut with the Los
Angeles Opera, to her life today at Glyndebourne, and her
passion for making opera feel fresh, cool and accessible to
new audiences, and hosting this conversation about everything from backstage
rituals and vocal care, to what it truly feels like
(01:21):
to stand under stage lights and inhabit a role. Is
spectrum editor Melanie Kembrey.
S2 (01:27):
Thanks, Conrad, and welcome, Danielle. Denise. Danielle. The BBC has
described you as the most in-demand opera singer in the world.
If I asked you to give us a private performance
right now, what steps would you need to take to
get ready or can you just perform on the spot?
S3 (01:45):
Oh, that's such a great question. Um, I there are
different ways in which one can prepare. You know, if
someone said, sing a line, I'd go LA mode, and
I could just do that.
S2 (01:56):
You've already exceeded my expectations.
S3 (01:58):
Patience. But if someone said, you know, we need like
a vocal performance, like at, you know, optimum level of
the whole piece, I would certainly need to go and
warm up. Um, and there again, it's funny, there are
different types of warm ups. So the warm up that
I will do for the opening night of Carmen will
be quite an extensive warm up. I will be working
like all the different muscles and registers in my voice,
(02:18):
and making sure that everything is slotted in like, really well. Um,
if I was just going to sing one song from
an opera, I might only need to do a portion
of that warm up. So, um, it's quite a sort
of intricate process, but there are different ways in which
you can do it. If you're just singing something quickly
or you're just doing something. You know, if I had to,
I could warm up in ten minutes and go sing
something if I had to.
S2 (02:39):
And you mentioned Carmen, which opens with Opera Australia tomorrow.
Are there any other pre-performance rituals that might surprise people
that you have before you go on stage?
S3 (02:48):
Well, I love to do some stretching, which is quite
good for my body. I dance in the show, so, um,
that's quite important actually, to be able to get into
the physicality of my own body and not just warm
up my voice. Um, what are the other things I
love to do before the show? Um, I come really early,
so I really like to be quite early. Um, on
an opening night, I've usually got presents for everybody for
(03:11):
the cast, um, cards that I need to go and
sneak into everybody's dressing room and leave them. So I
have to a lot, a lot of time to get
into the theatre. Because what I don't want to happen
is for all of that stuff to encroach on my
warm up time. And my actual preparation is Carmen. So, um,
we usually spend about an hour to 90 minutes in
hair and makeup. Plus I need a good hour to
(03:32):
do the the nice calm warm up. Plus, there's always
on the opening night. Everybody comes into your dressing room
to wish you well, so you almost have to a
lot like an inordinate amount of time. If you want
to have everything, be calm and orderly. Otherwise it gets
a bit chaotic, you know? And then there's the flower deliveries. Oh,
flowers for Miss Denise. And so those come in. So
there's lots of different sort of elements to what's to
(03:53):
what's happening. And, um, I think we'll probably even have
a choreography call or a fight call, which is where
you get called to the stage ahead of the show
to run through some of the movements that are in
the show that that require extensive choreography. So it's a
way of having a little run in before you just
do it off the cuff like that in the show.
So you've done it once for the day and just
(04:14):
reminded yourself of all the moves. Um, I have some
pretty intensive, uh, stuff that I do in addition to
the dancing that is, you know, quite violent. And so, um,
you know, those those, those calls can be quite helpful
to just get into the zone of that and get
into the control elements of that. Yeah. It's it's complex.
S2 (04:35):
Oh my gosh. The show behind the show is as
much of a spectacular. That's right. I know what it's
like as an opera viewer to really feel a show
and to be moved by it. But I always wonder,
what does it feel like to be on stage singing?
S3 (04:49):
You're asking me such amazing questions. Um, honestly, Mel, the
that I feel the way you feel. That's my purpose
in life is to to make sure that all that
work that we do in opera, in the rehearsal is done.
And now the storytelling part is what takes precedence more
than my voice, more than how I'm listening, viewing and
(05:12):
judging myself, which should not be a factor in telling
a story on stage for an audience. Once that work
is all done, it should run in the background. So
to me, that's what I want. When I'm on the stage.
It's what I experience. I experience feeling and being like,
transformed by the story as if it were told in
the first day, that day, so that I never walked
(05:33):
on the stage as Carmen in that scene on that
cigarette break until today. And that's my that's the art
of what I do, is to try to capture the
spontaneity of a moment that makes it feel like it
was the first time.
S2 (05:48):
And what are some of the tricks to capture that spontaneity?
So you don't get worn out on board of a
role as the as a season progresses.
S3 (05:55):
I think some of it is very intrinsic to one's
self and some of it is skill acquired. So I think,
I think you need to be a great actor to
be able to have that ability to make a line
that you might have said 25 times feel like the
first time. So we see it on film all the time.
We see it in theater. We can see it in
opera too, so it requires a certain amount of acting skill. Um,
(06:19):
and I, I do think that when you see any
type of arts performance and you start to see the
mechanics of it, and you start to see the person
kind of heading to their spot or heading to something,
you notice it, you go, okay, that's not as polished
of a performance. So, um, when people can feel utterly
organic and natural and in themselves inside their sphere, their
(06:42):
sphere of motion, um, I think that makes the ultimate
dynamic performance. And we're really here in opera to provide
an amazing theatrical Experience that is both audio and visual.
It's not just about the singing, it's about what we convey.
At least for me, that's I will not step on
the stage without that as a priority. I think I'm
(07:03):
kind of hard wired like that in a way. So
I absolutely I totally relish those moments I share with
the audience on stage because they're one of a kind.
You can never repeat them because the audience is never
the same. And a performance is not only made up
of what I put out there, but what I receive back.
So I don't really feel like what I've conveyed is
(07:25):
ever finished conveying until it reaches the audience and they
sort of breathe out and breathe back to me. Then
I understand what this circular motion is between us, between
people in a room.
S2 (07:38):
And you mentioned hard wiring. You started singing when you
were very young. What drew you to the art form
and who did you start performing for?
S3 (07:46):
Well, I was about 5 or 6 in Australia when
I think most parents put their little girls in dance
class and and, you know, song and dance and all
of that. So my parents enrolled me at the Johnny
Young Talent School back in the young talent time days, um,
where I took to singing and dancing like a duck
to water. I think my mom had definitely seen that
even at age 3 or 4, even a little bit
(08:09):
earlier than that, that I was able to I was
really holding forth at home, and I had very good intonation.
Even as a small infant. My intonation, I wouldn't believe
it myself if I had not heard the cassettes my
parents recorded of me singing at a very young age. Um,
I think all of that showed them that I was
up for this. And then once I did the classes,
(08:30):
I was in seventh heaven as a young little girl.
Girly girl, loved dressing up, loved the dress up box.
Couldn't wait for my Saturday mornings to do jazz, ballet, tap, uh, drama,
singing lesson. Um. And the same year that I won
Young Talent Time was the year that my parents thought
they could find me a teacher to teach me some technique,
(08:50):
some classical technique, which is an amazing choice they made
when I was so young, I think, because also the
teachers were telling them everything that they could feel that
that I had a promise and that I, you know,
had a, a form of like outstanding ability. So they
wanted to give me the right tools so that I
wouldn't be just winging it. Yeah. And that's when I decided.
S2 (09:12):
Let me take you back. Young talent time. You were
nine when you won that singing a Whitney Houston medley.
Looking back, how did you find that experience as a child,
and how did you find that introduction to celebrity?
S3 (09:24):
You know, when you're a kid, you don't really think
about what happens after those moments. So you don't think
in a futuristic way. You're very much in a state
of being. You are just in the moment. So each
moment is a moment to moment life. When you're a child,
you know, um, young talent time. Oh, my God, I
was so nervous. Of course, um, even doing the talent
(09:47):
discovery of the month, which was the first leg of it,
and then you get chosen one for the whole year
to be the top, the top talent in the country
going on for that final show, the sort of as
the victor, as the winner of it. Um, it was
live television, age nine. I must have been so nervous,
but I was always probably quite good at not showing it,
(10:09):
and I think I still am. I think my colleagues
and friends, family, um, most people who see my performances
would never believe that I am nervous. They just can't
believe it. Um, so I have probably a way of
managing it, and it is sort of nerves and excitement,
and I think that's probably how I managed it at nine.
S2 (10:27):
And then at 16, you won an Emmy for hosting
LA kids, which was a weekly arts showcase for teenagers.
You're clearly multi-talented. You're singing, you're dancing, you're on TV.
How did you then land on opera as the art
form that you really wanted to perfect?
S3 (10:42):
Yeah, it's really interesting, but it was actually in Australia
that in that first year, the same year I won
Young Talent Time, I took these classical lessons and I
sort of I may not have been able to articulate
it the way that I can now, but I felt
very clearly, oh, my friends can all sing and dance
and act and everybody's, you know, fame. I want to
(11:03):
live forever. They were all triple threat. But I was thinking, oh,
none of them can do this. This makes me special.
This makes something that I can do so naturally is
going to single me out. I did feel that. And
and and something clicked in me. Like a love. Like
a like a like a like a first love where I,
(11:24):
I just thought, oh my God, this is what I
want to do. I want to do all the other things,
but I want to be an opera singer who does
all the other things. And so I kind of decided
at eight that I wanted to be an opera singer,
and it was amazing to go and do the TV
presenting and do all of the other things that have
that have come along the way. Um, but in some way,
classical music is a part of my core identity, Because
(11:47):
even at that tender age, I understood that it that
it was something very special to me, something very individual
that I could put my voice to. I fell in love.
S2 (11:56):
Do you remember the first opera you saw?
S3 (11:58):
Yes I do. Um, the very first. You were gonna die.
When I tell you this, the first opera that I
saw was Tristan and Isolde. I was in, like, rogue
with my parents, and I remember sort of seeing that
as a first opera live, you know, in LA as
a young, young child. Um, that was amazing. I mean,
it was epic. And it ended. It was a production
(12:21):
by David Hockney, who I then would go on to
work with. Um, so, you know, talk about Full Circle.
And I had never I didn't realize that until I
saw David Hockney exhibition, and then I saw his Tristan
and I went, I know that show. I saw that
when I was a kid. And I thought, oh my goodness,
isn't that amazing? Um, yeah. What a what a first opera.
S2 (12:39):
What a first opera. And now tell me about your
your first opera. The time you were on the stage,
you made your debut with the Metropolitan Opera in New
York when you were a teen. What were you feeling
before that performance, and what did you learn from that performance?
S3 (12:52):
Yeah, that was my met debut. I actually made my
opera debut with L.A. opera at age 15 and a
world premiere one act opera. That was my very first
sort of opera, you know, getting out on the stage
in an opera with people a lot older than me.
I was only 15 years old. Um, that was truly
amazing as well. My met debut is still probably, I think,
(13:12):
the youngest debut in the history of the Metropolitan Opera. Um,
it was an amazing day. It was a day filled
with lots of people coming into my dressing room. Although
I do remember a lot of people, um, coming in
with rather serious faces. I think they were all thinking, God,
if she cracks, this is all on us because we
put her into this position. I mean, it's the Metropolitan Opera.
(13:35):
It's one of the best opera houses in the world.
I was in a dream team cast of Bryn Terfel,
Cecilia Bartoli, Renee Fleming, Dwayne Croft, Susanne Mentzer Levine conducting.
It was. It was starry, starry, starry. They were known
as the Dream Team. And, uh, I was cool as
a cucumber. I was ready because I'd done all this
(13:55):
stuff beforehand. So I knew what I needed to do.
But I do remember all those worried faces. How are you?
How are you? Are you. Are you okay? How are
you feeling?
S2 (14:05):
And was there any sense of pressure about having to
prove people that even though you were young, you deserved
a place on these stages?
S3 (14:13):
It was quite interesting because I didn't audition for the
met with a view to getting a met debut. I
auditioned to get into their Young Artist Apprentice program, and
then Levine saw something in me on stage that he thought,
she's got the musicianship, she's got the ability and the
stage presence to be in this amazing show. Um, I,
(14:36):
I definitely went into the Young Artist program there, aware
that I wouldn't have got in if people didn't believe
in what I had to offer. And there was an
element of me having a lot of background training in theory, counterpoint, piano,
you know, that that people wouldn't have known about me.
So I didn't feel I had to show it, but
(14:57):
people discovering it and understanding that that I had really
earned my place there, albeit in a very, very unusual setup,
being so young. Um, I definitely remember thinking that I
needed to be very professional and grown up, and I
didn't act more than my age, but I certainly probably
(15:17):
didn't act like an 18 year old.
S2 (15:19):
And I'm sure you've you've heard a lot about it.
But the recent Maria film Angelina Jolie starred in, um,
that film is a lot about how voices change over time.
How have you found, if it has changed, that it's
changed since when you were a teen and you started
to now?
S3 (15:35):
Yeah, my voice has evolved a lot, and in fact,
Carmen is a part of this evolution I've been asked
for years by the fans and people in the opera world.
When are you going to do Carmen? You are, you
are Carmen. You're born to to do Carmen. And for
years and years I would say, well, you know, I'm
singing Bel canto, I'm singing, you know, Don Pasquale, I'm
(15:57):
singing Musetta in La Boheme. I don't know if I'll
ever do Carmen. I have the range as a musical
theater singer, but my voice has taken some really interesting turns,
which Levine James Levine told my parents about this years
and years ago when I was young, that my voice
would take a couple of really interesting turns and that
he could hear those future colors in my sound. Um,
(16:20):
and interestingly, that is exactly what's happened. So it's not
said that every voice is going to evolve. There are
some coloratura sopranos I know who sing really like high
fast notes. Um, in a very high part of the range,
who have stayed that way throughout a 20 year career. Um,
so it's not a given that your voice is going
to evolve, but if you are destined for a vocal evolution,
(16:44):
then yeah, things change and it's like jumping onto a
moving train. So, um, somebody had asked me, you know,
when did you start your preparation for Carmen? And I
was saying to them about five weeks ago, actually, because
I didn't want to vocally prepare it at a time
when I can feel the colours in my voice evolving
really fast at a rate, my voice doesn't sound the
(17:06):
same as it did in March. So, um, that's been
very exciting, very, very exciting to come into these colours
of Carmen as my voice is settling into its home colour.
And they say that your voice doesn't really find its
home colour until it's really mature. So, um, I guess
this is what my destiny was.
S2 (17:27):
It might be a little bit like trying to describe
a fine red wine, but it takes time. Tell me
a bit more about the colours that that have changed,
what that means in real terms as an audience, how
we might. How it sounds different.
S3 (17:41):
Yeah. I think that over time there's a voluptuousness to
the sound that has sort of grown in. It's like
growing out of your puppy skin and like starting to
feel out your own body shape. So the voice is
like that, too. Um, I used to have this recording
of Kiri Te Kanawa and it was called The Young Kiri,
and it was really lovely to listen to because you
(18:02):
could hear the colours that she would eventually have as
she grew up, but they were slightly in a lighter
form in a, in a more raw form. And that's
what it was like. I think possibly for me, that
I'm coming into a much fuller, more voluptuous, a richer
sense of my voice. Um, it feels like it has
a bigger length and breadth to it. Um, I'm making
(18:23):
this gesture of sort of like a broader sound. Um,
and that's sort of what it feels like. It feels
like like a, like a wine that is settled into
the decanter and is sort of like, aerated and found
its color, found its body.
S2 (18:39):
I'm glad we are stuck with the wine metaphor. You
performed such a wide range of repertoire, which we've kind
of been touching on Baroque, classical, contemporary opera. West end
musicals also sang in a Ridley Scott film. What draws
you to particular styles or productions?
S3 (18:56):
Well, I think a lot of it has to do
with my training and my skill sets. I'm in a
really unique position as an opera singer who could actually
who is singing professionally in Broadway or West End musicals. Um,
and someone said to me the other day, there's no
one else in opera singing in Western musicals, and there's
no one in Western musicals singing properly professionally, in opera.
(19:16):
And I thought, oh my God, that puts me in
like a sort of box of one person. But, um,
I mean, it's fascinating. It's amazing. Um, why am I
drawn to those things? Um, I think in a way,
I've always even doing the television show, uh, I've always
wanted to get opera to as many different audiences, new audiences,
(19:37):
younger audiences as possible. I'm very open to the idea
that you don't need to be a specific sort of
person to appreciate a specific sort of art, and the
transformative power of classical music is something that is just
amazing to me. Still, I'm in love with it as
much as I was as a little eight year old,
(19:58):
so I love to take music into different venues. Just
an example I did a piece called La Voix Humaine,
The human voice of Poulenc. It's a one act French opera,
which in the pandemic we thought, okay, why don't why
don't we make a movie of this? Because I felt
this opera could sustain the visual lens of one on film,
(20:18):
because it's about a woman's one one phone call with
her lover who's left her. You know, that was a
great example of what I love to do, which is
take something that people think this only belongs in the
upper medium and go, right, let's transplant it somewhere else
and and it will hold. I really believe in the
power of the music and the text and the performance
(20:39):
to hold its own, even in a cinematic environment. And
boy oh boy, did it ever. It was a huge success.
It aired on BBC two, which is, you know, where
we watch Strictly Come Dancing. Where would you ever have
thought that you would have an experience like that of
watching a French whole one act opera in movie form? Um,
those are the things that I think really enrich us.
(21:00):
They enrich me and they enrich others, that they are
showing my belief in what I do.
S2 (21:15):
And we've been talking about the fabulous life you live
on the stage. Off stage. It sounds pretty good as well.
You live at the English country house known as Glyndebourne,
which is a really unique place in the opera world
for for our listeners who don't know about Glyndebourne, tell
us about its role in opera.
S3 (21:32):
Of course. Um, Glyndebourne is a manor house in the country.
But almost just just a little over 90 years ago,
John Christie, who lived in the house, he fell in
love with a soprano, Audrey Mildmay, who came to sing
in the soirees that he used to put on of
opera scenes. He was mad passionate about opera. He loved
(21:53):
by Reuters, and he had this idea that he wanted
to put on these soirees. She came, they fell in love.
He decided to build an opera house behind their house
for her. And she famously said, for goodness sake, John,
if you're going to do it, do it properly. And
so Glyndebourne was made. At the time, there was no
other country house opera music in the country there. Just
(22:15):
that is a thing that was created by Glyndebourne. So
it was a truly, truly original idea. Um, which now
we have lots of country house opera festivals in the
UK and abroad. So, um, a real legacy of love,
a real family legacy of love. I went to perform there,
make my Glyndebourne debut in 2005, and I joined a
(22:38):
very illustrious list of people who had all made early
career debuts at Glyndebourne like Pavarotti, like Renée Fleming, like
Frederica von Stade, Ileana Cotrubas. Lots of people had had
their very early starts. Even Roberto Alagna, they had all
had their starts at Glyndebourne. Um, and the Cleopatra production
that I did in Julius Caesar by Sir David McVicar,
(23:01):
who's done a lot of work here in Australia, so
audiences will know him very well. This was a massive
success for the production and particularly also for me. It
really catapulted my career to another level. However, it's also
where I met my husband to be, Gus, who is
the grandson of Glyndebourne's founder John Christie. So we now
(23:22):
live in the house that John lived in and that
John's son George, my late father in law, lived in
when he ran Glyndebourne Festival for 40 years.
S2 (23:30):
And is that where you met him as well?
S3 (23:32):
Yes. That's where I met Gus.
S2 (23:33):
Yeah. And, uh, how how much time do you actually
get to spend there? Because it sounds like you're pretty busy.
S3 (23:38):
I don't get to spend as much time as probably
Gus would like, because he misses me when I'm gone. But, um,
whenever I'm not singing. Yeah. And, I mean, I had
this lovely artistic relationship with Glyndebourne and their artistic administration, uh,
before Gus and I became a couple. So I sang
there in 2005 and six and eight, and then Gus
and I became a couple. We married in 2009, and
(24:01):
I've gone on to do incredible work with the company.
You know, when they cast me and make offers to
me to to do things there. It's a wonderful thing
because I have this ten second commute. So I literally
walk out of my back door and in 10s, I'm
in the front door of the theater. So, um, it's
totally unique. It's incredibly unique in the pandemic, for example.
(24:22):
Most of the opera community were going, Danny's the only
person who has an opera theater in her backyard. Literally.
She can literally walk into the theater while everything else
was closed. Um. How unique? I mean, it is wonderful
that the family have been able to carry on that
Glyndebourne was successful and the family were able to carry
on this, this legacy of love, um, into the 20th
(24:46):
century and beyond. You know, it's wonderful.
S2 (24:48):
And did you wander in there on your own?
S3 (24:50):
Absolutely. Yeah. We did. We went to go and look
at all of the sets that we're not going to
be used that summer. I was supposed to do dialogue
of the Carmelites there, and it was really sad to
go there on what would have been the opening night
and sort of walk around the set pieces. Um, and
I did a radio appearance on, on BBC radio four,
where everybody had been doing a little vocal performance or
(25:10):
a music performance via Skype. And I remember saying at
the time, we've got a theatre. If we can get
a radio line here, we could actually provide for the
radio for listeners in the middle of lockdown. One really
good acoustic that isn't a laptop. And um, oh, that
was amazing. It was amazing to go there and sing,
you know, Danny Boy in the middle of lockdown in
(25:31):
this beautiful acoustic?
S2 (25:32):
Yeah, I can imagine. When you're not performing, how do
you maintain vocal care and look after your voice to
keep it in optimal condition?
S3 (25:41):
Yeah, the voice is a funny old thing, because you
can't take it out of your body and leave it
on the mantle while you go out to a nightclub
or a smoky environment or a loud restaurant. There's so
many ways in which, as a singer, you are an
elite athlete, especially with opera, because it's an unamplified sound.
So you are using the sheer power of your own
(26:01):
physical support to send sound out over 60 or 70
instrumentalists playing. It's um, it's really quite an Olympian feat,
and it does require some prudence and care. Um, so yeah,
I definitely watch out in between performances to rest, to sleep.
Sleep is so vital to recovery, and it's quite a
(26:22):
hard thing for me to do, because after the show,
the adrenaline is still in my system. I could be
up till two, three, four, five in the morning. It's, uh.
It's a lot of adrenaline that still sits in the body. Um,
hydration is incredibly important. I don't drink much. Um, so
I will be very attentive to that. Um, and also
(26:44):
making sure not to sort of go out into very,
very cold environments or too dry. You know, the humidity
has this role. The dryness has a role. Heaters have
a role. You know, you have to think about everything
all the time. I'm actually thinking about the aircon in
the studio right now.
S2 (26:57):
Oh no. Do we need it? Is it is fresh
isn't it?
S3 (27:00):
Yeah. I'm kind of going. Okay, okay. After this, I'm
gonna do some steam.
S2 (27:03):
Yeah, we might have to tone it down. I can't
be responsible for calm and not going.
S3 (27:06):
Absolutely, absolutely.
S2 (27:08):
Um. You've been hailed as opera's coolest soprano, which, being
here with you now, I totally get.
S3 (27:14):
That's kind.
S2 (27:14):
Thank you. What does, uh. What does that title mean
to you? And how do you strive to engage new
audiences and to make opera more accessible?
S3 (27:23):
Opera's coolest soprano. It's a title that I think people
really took to when it came to me. I it's
a it's amazing. I think at the time I was
given that title, I don't think that people thought Oprah
was cool. Um, and because I was doing so many
different things. So that's been a real hallmark of my
(27:46):
career as not just the not just me and my voice.
And what's the next role I'm going to sing, which
for many opera singers, that's that's the whole career is
how do I take care of my voice and what
are the next what is the trajectory of the next roles?
So much about my artistic identity has been keeping my
hands stretched out into other fields, getting opera out on television,
(28:07):
getting opera made on DVD, being part of those first
HD broadcasts into cinemas. I've had so much of a multifaceted, uh,
side to the other parts of the operatic career and
where I want to send opera that, I think that's
probably what contributed to me having the cool factor. I mean,
(28:29):
I was doing concerts, for example, inside the Bermondsey Tunnel
in London, where, you know, the tube trains were running over,
but we were in a nightclub. I was singing Dido's
Lament and absolutely bringing the house down in a really
different kind of raw way, you know. So I've really
relished those sorts of ways in which you can take
opera into different venues and find different audiences.
S2 (28:51):
Do you think opera companies are having difficulties attracting younger audiences,
and what opportunities excite you most about getting younger people in?
S3 (29:00):
Um, in the case of myself and my personal experience,
I've not found that there have been any trouble attracting
younger audiences. But then I do a lot of work
to help attract younger audiences. I do a lot of
educational outreach. I always try to meet all the school
kids when they come on trips. You know, I never
want to make it a depersonalized experience. I think it's
really important to physically connect with people, let them meet you,
(29:23):
let them see you in the flesh. Let them ask questions.
Let them, uh, you know, air their thoughts about what
they've experienced. If I can do it before, or even better,
if I can do it right after the performance. It's
also great. Um, it makes things very personal. And I
think that younger audiences, I include myself in that generation
because I also started as an insanely young singer in
(29:44):
a very highly professional atmosphere. We gravitate to faces. We
we want to see the face of the artist and
understand who is the personality behind that face. So I
want to know when I when I'm interested in an artist,
I want to know what they think. I want to
know how they think and what their process is and
what they value. It's not just a voice or a recording. Um,
(30:09):
and I think in that way, I'm probably quite suited
to the age in which I've come up. Somebody gave
me this title once, diva for the Digital Age, and
I was thinking, oh, that's really interesting. But but yes,
I am a person who, Um, is has activity on
social media. I'm a person who believes in the capacity
(30:31):
that classical music has to transform people, and I'm not
judgmental about it. So I don't, you know, gone are
the times where the classical music sat in the record
shop behind glass, you know? So for preserving the sound,
all of that is part of some of the reputation
of classical music, but it can create a distance that
I don't believe in. So, you know, I want as
(30:52):
many people to just hear and experience what I do
because that will change their minds. And as a child,
when I did all the educational work singing for schools, well,
nobody expected someone who looked like me to be an
opera singer. There's just they just went what? I was
expecting sort of Viking lady or something. You know, this
is the some of the old cliches from the cartoons
(31:14):
and whatnot that follow follow opera, but are not actually
reflective of what opera is today.
S2 (31:20):
Yeah, I think that's interesting because there are quite a
few misconceptions that it is this very elitist art form,
and that if you don't understand it, you can't enjoy it.
Or if you don't in the same way as often
with other visual arts as well. Yeah. What other misconceptions
have you come across that have been portrayed by pop
culture about what it means to be an opera singer?
S3 (31:39):
You'd have no idea how many people still say, oh God,
I'd love to come to the opera, but I'm not
sure I would understand it because I don't speak the
languages that it's in. And the amount of times that
I say to people, actually, there have been surtitles of
the opera forever, for decades upon decades upon decades. So
you can you can understand what's being said. Sometimes I
(32:02):
think that comes from the fact that when people see
opera depicted in film or TV, the surtitles are never
there because cinematographers will look at that and think, that's
just an ugly piece of the stage that I don't
need to have in my beautiful cinematic shot of the
opera stage. So I've never seen an opera depicted in
film or cinema where you see the person singing and
(32:23):
then you see the title going like my heart is
broken or something, it's always out. And if you think
of like Pretty Woman or you think of, um, I
don't know, even like I was, there was an opera
scene in a, in a show on Netflix called the
O and I. And in those, in those scenarios, it's
always connect yourself to the emotion of what you see
(32:44):
and the theatricality of it. And perhaps people, when they
see that, they think, oh, well, I don't really know
what they're singing about. So I guess that's not for me.
But yeah, surtitles at the opera, folks, it's there. So
I just, you know, I'm using this podcast opportunity to
say you will understand every word. And actually, somebody said
to me at the dress rehearsal, they said after that
(33:05):
they heard lots of people saying, God, isn't it amazing
that this is so well acted that I can understand
the emotions of what's going on without even looking at
the subtitles so that I was like, okay, that really
done my job because if I can convey that across
language barrier. Oh, there's no no greater joy than feeling
(33:27):
that reaction.
S2 (33:28):
Yeah, that's a very well put. Because sometimes it's not
about the words, is it? It's the music itself conveys
the conveys the meaning.
S3 (33:34):
Understand the emotion. You can I think if you can
use language to convey emotion. For me, opera is the
very first basis from which opera comes, is from words.
Because no composer wrote anything without libretto first. So the
text for me is the whole purpose of opera. The
(33:56):
text conveys an emotion. The emotion is conveyed on a
bed of sound that comes out of your human body,
out onto a particular note that then comes across in
a series of notes that create an emotional color, that
reflect what's in that word and what you do with it,
or what you don't do with it, is how we
understand what your interpretation of that word and color is, um,
(34:21):
it's the as I said, there's just no, I don't
see a place for any vocal vanity in what I
do on stage. I'm never thinking, how do I sound
and listen to my amazing voice like I'm never, ever
thinking that. I am always thinking about the character, the
story and what what I'm what's happening to this person
(34:41):
in time and space in that moment.
S2 (34:44):
And, uh, how would you say from kind of how
has your relationship to opera changed since you were that
eight year old who decided she wanted to be an
opera singer to now, when you're about to go on
an Australian stage as as Carmen.
S3 (34:57):
Do you know a really good question to ask me.
And I guess in my heart of hearts, I don't
think anything has changed. And I know that sounds simplistic,
but I honestly feel that I love what I do
as much as I did as an eight year old
and all of the years of hard work and decision
(35:18):
making and gauntlet of stuff that comes in, um, hasn't
changed that. So that, to me is a great feat because,
you know, when you are starting out in a career,
you don't carry the burden of expectation. Once you become famous,
people go, well, I heard they're really great. So let's
see what they can do. And they come in with
(35:39):
that expectation. And then you've got after that, the critics
and people, you know who might come in and they
have their opinions. So if you can get through a massive,
long career with longevity, you know, like like my idol
Kiri Te Kanawa did and still have love for it
and still want to always get up there, um, that
is to me, amazing. I worked with Placido Domingo a
(36:02):
couple of times and I would always we would perform
together in the same scenes. We were in many of
the same scenes together at the met. And, uh, I
would always watch how beautifully earnest and in love he
still is with the stage and with playing a character
and sharing that with the audience. And I always inspired
me so much. When I was on the stage with him,
(36:22):
I thought, wow, he feels what I feel. I could
see it. Um, so to have that love, that flame
never die, I think is the greatest gift. It proves
to me every day that I'm exactly where I need
to be, and I'm doing the thing that gets my
inner voice out to people.
S2 (36:40):
That's wonderful. And, uh, any other things you plan on
doing in Australia? Off the stage while you're home for
the next month or so?
S3 (36:47):
Uh, I definitely have to take my kids to the zoo.
We're going to go out to the Blue Mountains. Um,
I want to I the last time I was here,
I ended up. It was in summertime, so a little
bit different, but I ended up in almost all of
the bay's beaches from Balmoral, Rose Bay, double Bay. I
was just on and on and on. So I'd like
to do that with my daughter because it's her first
time in Australia. Uh, or first time in Sydney, I guess. And, um. Yeah,
(37:11):
I just want to, you know, I've it's been a really,
really busy period in the lead up to Carmen because
it's my first Carmen. There's been a lot of interest,
there's been a lot of excitement and, and, and, um,
and I'm also exploring a Carmen here that is not
going to be like Carmen, the Carmen, the the cliche,
let's put it that way. I don't want it to
(37:33):
just be frills and castanets and anne-louise Sarks and I
have have had such a beautiful relationship making a Carmen
that is both modern. Someone you can relate to, someone
who's edgy, who's who's, who's both a feminist but not
an not not anti-male, but absolutely a woman in charge
of herself and her own soul. Um, I've really loved that,
(37:55):
and I'm really happy to leave that here for Australian audiences,
that they will see a Carmen for years to come
that is based on these principles.
S2 (38:04):
We cannot wait to see it. And we are so
delighted to have you in Australia performing. Carmen, I won't
ask you to sing us out, but I will say
thank you so much, Danielle Denise, for joining us but
a good weekend talks.
S3 (38:15):
Thank you. It's been lovely to chat.
S1 (38:19):
That was opera singer Danielle de Niese being interviewed by
spectrum editor Melanie Kembrey on the latest Good Weekend talks.
If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate
and comment wherever you get your podcasts and keep tuning
in for more compelling conversations coming soon. Freelance writer James
Button interviews Australian Human Rights Commission president Hugh de Kretser.
(38:42):
Good Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney
Morning Herald and The Age. Proud newsrooms powered by subscriptions
to support independent journalism. Search, subscribe Sydney Morning Herald or
The Age? This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced
by Konrad Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery, with technical
assistance from Kai Wong. Tammy Mills is our executive producer,
(39:05):
Tom McKendrick is head of audio and Greg Callahan is
the acting editor of Good Weekend.
Hi, I'm Konrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald
and The Age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, a magazine
for your ears, featuring in-depth conversations with fascinating people from
sport and politics, science and culture, business and beyond. Every week,
you can download new episodes in which top journalists from
across our newsrooms talk to compelling people about the definitive
(00:37):
stories of the day. In this episode, we talk to
Danielle de Niese. The internationally acclaimed soprano has dazzled audiences
since childhood, from her breakthrough on Young Talent Time at
just nine years old to starring on the world's greatest
opera stages. She joins us to chat about her life
in music and what keeps her voice and spirit so vibrant.
(01:00):
We also take a look at Daniel's remarkable path from
her early Emmy win and teenage debut with the Los
Angeles Opera, to her life today at Glyndebourne, and her
passion for making opera feel fresh, cool and accessible to
new audiences, and hosting this conversation about everything from backstage
rituals and vocal care, to what it truly feels like
(01:21):
to stand under stage lights and inhabit a role. Is
spectrum editor Melanie Kembrey.
S2 (01:27):
Thanks, Conrad, and welcome, Danielle. Denise. Danielle. The BBC has
described you as the most in-demand opera singer in the world.
If I asked you to give us a private performance
right now, what steps would you need to take to
get ready or can you just perform on the spot?
S3 (01:45):
Oh, that's such a great question. Um, I there are
different ways in which one can prepare. You know, if
someone said, sing a line, I'd go LA mode, and
I could just do that.
S2 (01:56):
You've already exceeded my expectations.
S3 (01:58):
Patience. But if someone said, you know, we need like
a vocal performance, like at, you know, optimum level of
the whole piece, I would certainly need to go and
warm up. Um, and there again, it's funny, there are
different types of warm ups. So the warm up that
I will do for the opening night of Carmen will
be quite an extensive warm up. I will be working
like all the different muscles and registers in my voice,
(02:18):
and making sure that everything is slotted in like, really well. Um,
if I was just going to sing one song from
an opera, I might only need to do a portion
of that warm up. So, um, it's quite a sort
of intricate process, but there are different ways in which
you can do it. If you're just singing something quickly
or you're just doing something. You know, if I had to,
I could warm up in ten minutes and go sing
something if I had to.
S2 (02:39):
And you mentioned Carmen, which opens with Opera Australia tomorrow.
Are there any other pre-performance rituals that might surprise people
that you have before you go on stage?
S3 (02:48):
Well, I love to do some stretching, which is quite
good for my body. I dance in the show, so, um,
that's quite important actually, to be able to get into
the physicality of my own body and not just warm
up my voice. Um, what are the other things I
love to do before the show? Um, I come really early,
so I really like to be quite early. Um, on
an opening night, I've usually got presents for everybody for
(03:11):
the cast, um, cards that I need to go and
sneak into everybody's dressing room and leave them. So I
have to a lot, a lot of time to get
into the theatre. Because what I don't want to happen
is for all of that stuff to encroach on my
warm up time. And my actual preparation is Carmen. So, um,
we usually spend about an hour to 90 minutes in
hair and makeup. Plus I need a good hour to
(03:32):
do the the nice calm warm up. Plus, there's always
on the opening night. Everybody comes into your dressing room
to wish you well, so you almost have to a
lot like an inordinate amount of time. If you want
to have everything, be calm and orderly. Otherwise it gets
a bit chaotic, you know? And then there's the flower deliveries. Oh,
flowers for Miss Denise. And so those come in. So
there's lots of different sort of elements to what's to
(03:53):
what's happening. And, um, I think we'll probably even have
a choreography call or a fight call, which is where
you get called to the stage ahead of the show
to run through some of the movements that are in
the show that that require extensive choreography. So it's a
way of having a little run in before you just
do it off the cuff like that in the show.
So you've done it once for the day and just
(04:14):
reminded yourself of all the moves. Um, I have some
pretty intensive, uh, stuff that I do in addition to
the dancing that is, you know, quite violent. And so, um,
you know, those those, those calls can be quite helpful
to just get into the zone of that and get
into the control elements of that. Yeah. It's it's complex.
S2 (04:35):
Oh my gosh. The show behind the show is as
much of a spectacular. That's right. I know what it's
like as an opera viewer to really feel a show
and to be moved by it. But I always wonder,
what does it feel like to be on stage singing?
S3 (04:49):
You're asking me such amazing questions. Um, honestly, Mel, the
that I feel the way you feel. That's my purpose
in life is to to make sure that all that
work that we do in opera, in the rehearsal is done.
And now the storytelling part is what takes precedence more
than my voice, more than how I'm listening, viewing and
(05:12):
judging myself, which should not be a factor in telling
a story on stage for an audience. Once that work
is all done, it should run in the background. So
to me, that's what I want. When I'm on the stage.
It's what I experience. I experience feeling and being like,
transformed by the story as if it were told in
the first day, that day, so that I never walked
(05:33):
on the stage as Carmen in that scene on that
cigarette break until today. And that's my that's the art
of what I do, is to try to capture the
spontaneity of a moment that makes it feel like it
was the first time.
S2 (05:48):
And what are some of the tricks to capture that spontaneity?
So you don't get worn out on board of a
role as the as a season progresses.
S3 (05:55):
I think some of it is very intrinsic to one's
self and some of it is skill acquired. So I think,
I think you need to be a great actor to
be able to have that ability to make a line
that you might have said 25 times feel like the
first time. So we see it on film all the time.
We see it in theater. We can see it in
opera too, so it requires a certain amount of acting skill. Um,
(06:19):
and I, I do think that when you see any
type of arts performance and you start to see the
mechanics of it, and you start to see the person
kind of heading to their spot or heading to something,
you notice it, you go, okay, that's not as polished
of a performance. So, um, when people can feel utterly
organic and natural and in themselves inside their sphere, their
(06:42):
sphere of motion, um, I think that makes the ultimate
dynamic performance. And we're really here in opera to provide
an amazing theatrical Experience that is both audio and visual.
It's not just about the singing, it's about what we convey.
At least for me, that's I will not step on
the stage without that as a priority. I think I'm
(07:03):
kind of hard wired like that in a way. So
I absolutely I totally relish those moments I share with
the audience on stage because they're one of a kind.
You can never repeat them because the audience is never
the same. And a performance is not only made up
of what I put out there, but what I receive back.
So I don't really feel like what I've conveyed is
(07:25):
ever finished conveying until it reaches the audience and they
sort of breathe out and breathe back to me. Then
I understand what this circular motion is between us, between
people in a room.
S2 (07:38):
And you mentioned hard wiring. You started singing when you
were very young. What drew you to the art form
and who did you start performing for?
S3 (07:46):
Well, I was about 5 or 6 in Australia when
I think most parents put their little girls in dance
class and and, you know, song and dance and all
of that. So my parents enrolled me at the Johnny
Young Talent School back in the young talent time days, um,
where I took to singing and dancing like a duck
to water. I think my mom had definitely seen that
even at age 3 or 4, even a little bit
(08:09):
earlier than that, that I was able to I was
really holding forth at home, and I had very good intonation.
Even as a small infant. My intonation, I wouldn't believe
it myself if I had not heard the cassettes my
parents recorded of me singing at a very young age. Um,
I think all of that showed them that I was
up for this. And then once I did the classes,
(08:30):
I was in seventh heaven as a young little girl.
Girly girl, loved dressing up, loved the dress up box.
Couldn't wait for my Saturday mornings to do jazz, ballet, tap, uh, drama,
singing lesson. Um. And the same year that I won
Young Talent Time was the year that my parents thought
they could find me a teacher to teach me some technique,
(08:50):
some classical technique, which is an amazing choice they made
when I was so young, I think, because also the
teachers were telling them everything that they could feel that
that I had a promise and that I, you know,
had a, a form of like outstanding ability. So they
wanted to give me the right tools so that I
wouldn't be just winging it. Yeah. And that's when I decided.
S2 (09:12):
Let me take you back. Young talent time. You were
nine when you won that singing a Whitney Houston medley.
Looking back, how did you find that experience as a child,
and how did you find that introduction to celebrity?
S3 (09:24):
You know, when you're a kid, you don't really think
about what happens after those moments. So you don't think
in a futuristic way. You're very much in a state
of being. You are just in the moment. So each
moment is a moment to moment life. When you're a child,
you know, um, young talent time. Oh, my God, I
was so nervous. Of course, um, even doing the talent
(09:47):
discovery of the month, which was the first leg of it,
and then you get chosen one for the whole year
to be the top, the top talent in the country
going on for that final show, the sort of as
the victor, as the winner of it. Um, it was
live television, age nine. I must have been so nervous,
but I was always probably quite good at not showing it,
(10:09):
and I think I still am. I think my colleagues
and friends, family, um, most people who see my performances
would never believe that I am nervous. They just can't
believe it. Um, so I have probably a way of
managing it, and it is sort of nerves and excitement,
and I think that's probably how I managed it at nine.
S2 (10:27):
And then at 16, you won an Emmy for hosting
LA kids, which was a weekly arts showcase for teenagers.
You're clearly multi-talented. You're singing, you're dancing, you're on TV.
How did you then land on opera as the art
form that you really wanted to perfect?
S3 (10:42):
Yeah, it's really interesting, but it was actually in Australia
that in that first year, the same year I won
Young Talent Time, I took these classical lessons and I
sort of I may not have been able to articulate
it the way that I can now, but I felt
very clearly, oh, my friends can all sing and dance
and act and everybody's, you know, fame. I want to
(11:03):
live forever. They were all triple threat. But I was thinking, oh,
none of them can do this. This makes me special.
This makes something that I can do so naturally is
going to single me out. I did feel that. And
and and something clicked in me. Like a love. Like
a like a like a like a first love where I,
(11:24):
I just thought, oh my God, this is what I
want to do. I want to do all the other things,
but I want to be an opera singer who does
all the other things. And so I kind of decided
at eight that I wanted to be an opera singer,
and it was amazing to go and do the TV
presenting and do all of the other things that have
that have come along the way. Um, but in some way,
classical music is a part of my core identity, Because
(11:47):
even at that tender age, I understood that it that
it was something very special to me, something very individual
that I could put my voice to. I fell in love.
S2 (11:56):
Do you remember the first opera you saw?
S3 (11:58):
Yes I do. Um, the very first. You were gonna die.
When I tell you this, the first opera that I
saw was Tristan and Isolde. I was in, like, rogue
with my parents, and I remember sort of seeing that
as a first opera live, you know, in LA as
a young, young child. Um, that was amazing. I mean,
it was epic. And it ended. It was a production
(12:21):
by David Hockney, who I then would go on to
work with. Um, so, you know, talk about Full Circle.
And I had never I didn't realize that until I
saw David Hockney exhibition, and then I saw his Tristan
and I went, I know that show. I saw that
when I was a kid. And I thought, oh my goodness,
isn't that amazing? Um, yeah. What a what a first opera.
S2 (12:39):
What a first opera. And now tell me about your
your first opera. The time you were on the stage,
you made your debut with the Metropolitan Opera in New
York when you were a teen. What were you feeling
before that performance, and what did you learn from that performance?
S3 (12:52):
Yeah, that was my met debut. I actually made my
opera debut with L.A. opera at age 15 and a
world premiere one act opera. That was my very first
sort of opera, you know, getting out on the stage
in an opera with people a lot older than me.
I was only 15 years old. Um, that was truly
amazing as well. My met debut is still probably, I think,
(13:12):
the youngest debut in the history of the Metropolitan Opera. Um,
it was an amazing day. It was a day filled
with lots of people coming into my dressing room. Although
I do remember a lot of people, um, coming in
with rather serious faces. I think they were all thinking, God,
if she cracks, this is all on us because we
put her into this position. I mean, it's the Metropolitan Opera.
(13:35):
It's one of the best opera houses in the world.
I was in a dream team cast of Bryn Terfel,
Cecilia Bartoli, Renee Fleming, Dwayne Croft, Susanne Mentzer Levine conducting.
It was. It was starry, starry, starry. They were known
as the Dream Team. And, uh, I was cool as
a cucumber. I was ready because I'd done all this
(13:55):
stuff beforehand. So I knew what I needed to do.
But I do remember all those worried faces. How are you?
How are you? Are you. Are you okay? How are
you feeling?
S2 (14:05):
And was there any sense of pressure about having to
prove people that even though you were young, you deserved
a place on these stages?
S3 (14:13):
It was quite interesting because I didn't audition for the
met with a view to getting a met debut. I
auditioned to get into their Young Artist Apprentice program, and
then Levine saw something in me on stage that he thought,
she's got the musicianship, she's got the ability and the
stage presence to be in this amazing show. Um, I,
(14:36):
I definitely went into the Young Artist program there, aware
that I wouldn't have got in if people didn't believe
in what I had to offer. And there was an
element of me having a lot of background training in theory, counterpoint, piano,
you know, that that people wouldn't have known about me.
So I didn't feel I had to show it, but
(14:57):
people discovering it and understanding that that I had really
earned my place there, albeit in a very, very unusual setup,
being so young. Um, I definitely remember thinking that I
needed to be very professional and grown up, and I
didn't act more than my age, but I certainly probably
(15:17):
didn't act like an 18 year old.
S2 (15:19):
And I'm sure you've you've heard a lot about it.
But the recent Maria film Angelina Jolie starred in, um,
that film is a lot about how voices change over time.
How have you found, if it has changed, that it's
changed since when you were a teen and you started
to now?
S3 (15:35):
Yeah, my voice has evolved a lot, and in fact,
Carmen is a part of this evolution I've been asked
for years by the fans and people in the opera world.
When are you going to do Carmen? You are, you
are Carmen. You're born to to do Carmen. And for
years and years I would say, well, you know, I'm
singing Bel canto, I'm singing, you know, Don Pasquale, I'm
(15:57):
singing Musetta in La Boheme. I don't know if I'll
ever do Carmen. I have the range as a musical
theater singer, but my voice has taken some really interesting turns,
which Levine James Levine told my parents about this years
and years ago when I was young, that my voice
would take a couple of really interesting turns and that
he could hear those future colors in my sound. Um,
(16:20):
and interestingly, that is exactly what's happened. So it's not
said that every voice is going to evolve. There are
some coloratura sopranos I know who sing really like high
fast notes. Um, in a very high part of the range,
who have stayed that way throughout a 20 year career. Um,
so it's not a given that your voice is going
to evolve, but if you are destined for a vocal evolution,
(16:44):
then yeah, things change and it's like jumping onto a
moving train. So, um, somebody had asked me, you know,
when did you start your preparation for Carmen? And I
was saying to them about five weeks ago, actually, because
I didn't want to vocally prepare it at a time
when I can feel the colours in my voice evolving
really fast at a rate, my voice doesn't sound the
(17:06):
same as it did in March. So, um, that's been
very exciting, very, very exciting to come into these colours
of Carmen as my voice is settling into its home colour.
And they say that your voice doesn't really find its
home colour until it's really mature. So, um, I guess
this is what my destiny was.
S2 (17:27):
It might be a little bit like trying to describe
a fine red wine, but it takes time. Tell me
a bit more about the colours that that have changed,
what that means in real terms as an audience, how
we might. How it sounds different.
S3 (17:41):
Yeah. I think that over time there's a voluptuousness to
the sound that has sort of grown in. It's like
growing out of your puppy skin and like starting to
feel out your own body shape. So the voice is
like that, too. Um, I used to have this recording
of Kiri Te Kanawa and it was called The Young Kiri,
and it was really lovely to listen to because you
(18:02):
could hear the colours that she would eventually have as
she grew up, but they were slightly in a lighter
form in a, in a more raw form. And that's
what it was like. I think possibly for me, that
I'm coming into a much fuller, more voluptuous, a richer
sense of my voice. Um, it feels like it has
a bigger length and breadth to it. Um, I'm making
(18:23):
this gesture of sort of like a broader sound. Um,
and that's sort of what it feels like. It feels
like like a, like a wine that is settled into
the decanter and is sort of like, aerated and found
its color, found its body.
S2 (18:39):
I'm glad we are stuck with the wine metaphor. You
performed such a wide range of repertoire, which we've kind
of been touching on Baroque, classical, contemporary opera. West end
musicals also sang in a Ridley Scott film. What draws
you to particular styles or productions?
S3 (18:56):
Well, I think a lot of it has to do
with my training and my skill sets. I'm in a
really unique position as an opera singer who could actually
who is singing professionally in Broadway or West End musicals. Um,
and someone said to me the other day, there's no
one else in opera singing in Western musicals, and there's
no one in Western musicals singing properly professionally, in opera.
(19:16):
And I thought, oh my God, that puts me in
like a sort of box of one person. But, um,
I mean, it's fascinating. It's amazing. Um, why am I
drawn to those things? Um, I think in a way,
I've always even doing the television show, uh, I've always
wanted to get opera to as many different audiences, new audiences,
(19:37):
younger audiences as possible. I'm very open to the idea
that you don't need to be a specific sort of
person to appreciate a specific sort of art, and the
transformative power of classical music is something that is just
amazing to me. Still, I'm in love with it as
much as I was as a little eight year old,
(19:58):
so I love to take music into different venues. Just
an example I did a piece called La Voix Humaine,
The human voice of Poulenc. It's a one act French opera,
which in the pandemic we thought, okay, why don't why
don't we make a movie of this? Because I felt
this opera could sustain the visual lens of one on film,
(20:18):
because it's about a woman's one one phone call with
her lover who's left her. You know, that was a
great example of what I love to do, which is
take something that people think this only belongs in the
upper medium and go, right, let's transplant it somewhere else
and and it will hold. I really believe in the
power of the music and the text and the performance
(20:39):
to hold its own, even in a cinematic environment. And
boy oh boy, did it ever. It was a huge success.
It aired on BBC two, which is, you know, where
we watch Strictly Come Dancing. Where would you ever have
thought that you would have an experience like that of
watching a French whole one act opera in movie form? Um,
those are the things that I think really enrich us.
(21:00):
They enrich me and they enrich others, that they are
showing my belief in what I do.
S2 (21:15):
And we've been talking about the fabulous life you live
on the stage. Off stage. It sounds pretty good as well.
You live at the English country house known as Glyndebourne,
which is a really unique place in the opera world
for for our listeners who don't know about Glyndebourne, tell
us about its role in opera.
S3 (21:32):
Of course. Um, Glyndebourne is a manor house in the country.
But almost just just a little over 90 years ago,
John Christie, who lived in the house, he fell in
love with a soprano, Audrey Mildmay, who came to sing
in the soirees that he used to put on of
opera scenes. He was mad passionate about opera. He loved
(21:53):
by Reuters, and he had this idea that he wanted
to put on these soirees. She came, they fell in love.
He decided to build an opera house behind their house
for her. And she famously said, for goodness sake, John,
if you're going to do it, do it properly. And
so Glyndebourne was made. At the time, there was no
other country house opera music in the country there. Just
(22:15):
that is a thing that was created by Glyndebourne. So
it was a truly, truly original idea. Um, which now
we have lots of country house opera festivals in the
UK and abroad. So, um, a real legacy of love,
a real family legacy of love. I went to perform there,
make my Glyndebourne debut in 2005, and I joined a
(22:38):
very illustrious list of people who had all made early
career debuts at Glyndebourne like Pavarotti, like Renée Fleming, like
Frederica von Stade, Ileana Cotrubas. Lots of people had had
their very early starts. Even Roberto Alagna, they had all
had their starts at Glyndebourne. Um, and the Cleopatra production
that I did in Julius Caesar by Sir David McVicar,
(23:01):
who's done a lot of work here in Australia, so
audiences will know him very well. This was a massive
success for the production and particularly also for me. It
really catapulted my career to another level. However, it's also
where I met my husband to be, Gus, who is
the grandson of Glyndebourne's founder John Christie. So we now
(23:22):
live in the house that John lived in and that
John's son George, my late father in law, lived in
when he ran Glyndebourne Festival for 40 years.
S2 (23:30):
And is that where you met him as well?
S3 (23:32):
Yes. That's where I met Gus.
S2 (23:33):
Yeah. And, uh, how how much time do you actually
get to spend there? Because it sounds like you're pretty busy.
S3 (23:38):
I don't get to spend as much time as probably
Gus would like, because he misses me when I'm gone. But, um,
whenever I'm not singing. Yeah. And, I mean, I had
this lovely artistic relationship with Glyndebourne and their artistic administration, uh,
before Gus and I became a couple. So I sang
there in 2005 and six and eight, and then Gus
and I became a couple. We married in 2009, and
(24:01):
I've gone on to do incredible work with the company.
You know, when they cast me and make offers to
me to to do things there. It's a wonderful thing
because I have this ten second commute. So I literally
walk out of my back door and in 10s, I'm
in the front door of the theater. So, um, it's
totally unique. It's incredibly unique in the pandemic, for example.
(24:22):
Most of the opera community were going, Danny's the only
person who has an opera theater in her backyard. Literally.
She can literally walk into the theater while everything else
was closed. Um. How unique? I mean, it is wonderful
that the family have been able to carry on that
Glyndebourne was successful and the family were able to carry
on this, this legacy of love, um, into the 20th
(24:46):
century and beyond. You know, it's wonderful.
S2 (24:48):
And did you wander in there on your own?
S3 (24:50):
Absolutely. Yeah. We did. We went to go and look
at all of the sets that we're not going to
be used that summer. I was supposed to do dialogue
of the Carmelites there, and it was really sad to
go there on what would have been the opening night
and sort of walk around the set pieces. Um, and
I did a radio appearance on, on BBC radio four,
where everybody had been doing a little vocal performance or
(25:10):
a music performance via Skype. And I remember saying at
the time, we've got a theatre. If we can get
a radio line here, we could actually provide for the
radio for listeners in the middle of lockdown. One really
good acoustic that isn't a laptop. And um, oh, that
was amazing. It was amazing to go there and sing,
you know, Danny Boy in the middle of lockdown in
(25:31):
this beautiful acoustic?
S2 (25:32):
Yeah, I can imagine. When you're not performing, how do
you maintain vocal care and look after your voice to
keep it in optimal condition?
S3 (25:41):
Yeah, the voice is a funny old thing, because you
can't take it out of your body and leave it
on the mantle while you go out to a nightclub
or a smoky environment or a loud restaurant. There's so
many ways in which, as a singer, you are an
elite athlete, especially with opera, because it's an unamplified sound.
So you are using the sheer power of your own
(26:01):
physical support to send sound out over 60 or 70
instrumentalists playing. It's um, it's really quite an Olympian feat,
and it does require some prudence and care. Um, so yeah,
I definitely watch out in between performances to rest, to sleep.
Sleep is so vital to recovery, and it's quite a
(26:22):
hard thing for me to do, because after the show,
the adrenaline is still in my system. I could be
up till two, three, four, five in the morning. It's, uh.
It's a lot of adrenaline that still sits in the body. Um,
hydration is incredibly important. I don't drink much. Um, so
I will be very attentive to that. Um, and also
(26:44):
making sure not to sort of go out into very,
very cold environments or too dry. You know, the humidity
has this role. The dryness has a role. Heaters have
a role. You know, you have to think about everything
all the time. I'm actually thinking about the aircon in
the studio right now.
S2 (26:57):
Oh no. Do we need it? Is it is fresh
isn't it?
S3 (27:00):
Yeah. I'm kind of going. Okay, okay. After this, I'm
gonna do some steam.
S2 (27:03):
Yeah, we might have to tone it down. I can't
be responsible for calm and not going.
S3 (27:06):
Absolutely, absolutely.
S2 (27:08):
Um. You've been hailed as opera's coolest soprano, which, being
here with you now, I totally get.
S3 (27:14):
That's kind.
S2 (27:14):
Thank you. What does, uh. What does that title mean
to you? And how do you strive to engage new
audiences and to make opera more accessible?
S3 (27:23):
Opera's coolest soprano. It's a title that I think people
really took to when it came to me. I it's
a it's amazing. I think at the time I was
given that title, I don't think that people thought Oprah
was cool. Um, and because I was doing so many
different things. So that's been a real hallmark of my
(27:46):
career as not just the not just me and my voice.
And what's the next role I'm going to sing, which
for many opera singers, that's that's the whole career is
how do I take care of my voice and what
are the next what is the trajectory of the next roles?
So much about my artistic identity has been keeping my
hands stretched out into other fields, getting opera out on television,
(28:07):
getting opera made on DVD, being part of those first
HD broadcasts into cinemas. I've had so much of a multifaceted, uh,
side to the other parts of the operatic career and
where I want to send opera that, I think that's
probably what contributed to me having the cool factor. I mean,
(28:29):
I was doing concerts, for example, inside the Bermondsey Tunnel
in London, where, you know, the tube trains were running over,
but we were in a nightclub. I was singing Dido's
Lament and absolutely bringing the house down in a really
different kind of raw way, you know. So I've really
relished those sorts of ways in which you can take
opera into different venues and find different audiences.
S2 (28:51):
Do you think opera companies are having difficulties attracting younger audiences,
and what opportunities excite you most about getting younger people in?
S3 (29:00):
Um, in the case of myself and my personal experience,
I've not found that there have been any trouble attracting
younger audiences. But then I do a lot of work
to help attract younger audiences. I do a lot of
educational outreach. I always try to meet all the school
kids when they come on trips. You know, I never
want to make it a depersonalized experience. I think it's
really important to physically connect with people, let them meet you,
(29:23):
let them see you in the flesh. Let them ask questions.
Let them, uh, you know, air their thoughts about what
they've experienced. If I can do it before, or even better,
if I can do it right after the performance. It's
also great. Um, it makes things very personal. And I
think that younger audiences, I include myself in that generation
because I also started as an insanely young singer in
(29:44):
a very highly professional atmosphere. We gravitate to faces. We
we want to see the face of the artist and
understand who is the personality behind that face. So I
want to know when I when I'm interested in an artist,
I want to know what they think. I want to
know how they think and what their process is and
what they value. It's not just a voice or a recording. Um,
(30:09):
and I think in that way, I'm probably quite suited
to the age in which I've come up. Somebody gave
me this title once, diva for the Digital Age, and
I was thinking, oh, that's really interesting. But but yes,
I am a person who, Um, is has activity on
social media. I'm a person who believes in the capacity
(30:31):
that classical music has to transform people, and I'm not
judgmental about it. So I don't, you know, gone are
the times where the classical music sat in the record
shop behind glass, you know? So for preserving the sound,
all of that is part of some of the reputation
of classical music, but it can create a distance that
I don't believe in. So, you know, I want as
(30:52):
many people to just hear and experience what I do
because that will change their minds. And as a child,
when I did all the educational work singing for schools, well,
nobody expected someone who looked like me to be an
opera singer. There's just they just went what? I was
expecting sort of Viking lady or something. You know, this
is the some of the old cliches from the cartoons
(31:14):
and whatnot that follow follow opera, but are not actually
reflective of what opera is today.
S2 (31:20):
Yeah, I think that's interesting because there are quite a
few misconceptions that it is this very elitist art form,
and that if you don't understand it, you can't enjoy it.
Or if you don't in the same way as often
with other visual arts as well. Yeah. What other misconceptions
have you come across that have been portrayed by pop
culture about what it means to be an opera singer?
S3 (31:39):
You'd have no idea how many people still say, oh God,
I'd love to come to the opera, but I'm not
sure I would understand it because I don't speak the
languages that it's in. And the amount of times that
I say to people, actually, there have been surtitles of
the opera forever, for decades upon decades upon decades. So
you can you can understand what's being said. Sometimes I
(32:02):
think that comes from the fact that when people see
opera depicted in film or TV, the surtitles are never
there because cinematographers will look at that and think, that's
just an ugly piece of the stage that I don't
need to have in my beautiful cinematic shot of the
opera stage. So I've never seen an opera depicted in
film or cinema where you see the person singing and
(32:23):
then you see the title going like my heart is
broken or something, it's always out. And if you think
of like Pretty Woman or you think of, um, I
don't know, even like I was, there was an opera
scene in a, in a show on Netflix called the
O and I. And in those, in those scenarios, it's
always connect yourself to the emotion of what you see
(32:44):
and the theatricality of it. And perhaps people, when they
see that, they think, oh, well, I don't really know
what they're singing about. So I guess that's not for me.
But yeah, surtitles at the opera, folks, it's there. So
I just, you know, I'm using this podcast opportunity to
say you will understand every word. And actually, somebody said
to me at the dress rehearsal, they said after that
(33:05):
they heard lots of people saying, God, isn't it amazing
that this is so well acted that I can understand
the emotions of what's going on without even looking at
the subtitles so that I was like, okay, that really
done my job because if I can convey that across
language barrier. Oh, there's no no greater joy than feeling
(33:27):
that reaction.
S2 (33:28):
Yeah, that's a very well put. Because sometimes it's not
about the words, is it? It's the music itself conveys
the conveys the meaning.
S3 (33:34):
Understand the emotion. You can I think if you can
use language to convey emotion. For me, opera is the
very first basis from which opera comes, is from words.
Because no composer wrote anything without libretto first. So the
text for me is the whole purpose of opera. The
(33:56):
text conveys an emotion. The emotion is conveyed on a
bed of sound that comes out of your human body,
out onto a particular note that then comes across in
a series of notes that create an emotional color, that
reflect what's in that word and what you do with it,
or what you don't do with it, is how we
understand what your interpretation of that word and color is, um,
(34:21):
it's the as I said, there's just no, I don't
see a place for any vocal vanity in what I
do on stage. I'm never thinking, how do I sound
and listen to my amazing voice like I'm never, ever
thinking that. I am always thinking about the character, the
story and what what I'm what's happening to this person
(34:41):
in time and space in that moment.
S2 (34:44):
And, uh, how would you say from kind of how
has your relationship to opera changed since you were that
eight year old who decided she wanted to be an
opera singer to now, when you're about to go on
an Australian stage as as Carmen.
S3 (34:57):
Do you know a really good question to ask me.
And I guess in my heart of hearts, I don't
think anything has changed. And I know that sounds simplistic,
but I honestly feel that I love what I do
as much as I did as an eight year old
and all of the years of hard work and decision
(35:18):
making and gauntlet of stuff that comes in, um, hasn't
changed that. So that, to me is a great feat because,
you know, when you are starting out in a career,
you don't carry the burden of expectation. Once you become famous,
people go, well, I heard they're really great. So let's
see what they can do. And they come in with
(35:39):
that expectation. And then you've got after that, the critics
and people, you know who might come in and they
have their opinions. So if you can get through a massive,
long career with longevity, you know, like like my idol
Kiri Te Kanawa did and still have love for it
and still want to always get up there, um, that
is to me, amazing. I worked with Placido Domingo a
(36:02):
couple of times and I would always we would perform
together in the same scenes. We were in many of
the same scenes together at the met. And, uh, I
would always watch how beautifully earnest and in love he
still is with the stage and with playing a character
and sharing that with the audience. And I always inspired
me so much. When I was on the stage with him,
(36:22):
I thought, wow, he feels what I feel. I could
see it. Um, so to have that love, that flame
never die, I think is the greatest gift. It proves
to me every day that I'm exactly where I need
to be, and I'm doing the thing that gets my
inner voice out to people.
S2 (36:40):
That's wonderful. And, uh, any other things you plan on
doing in Australia? Off the stage while you're home for
the next month or so?
S3 (36:47):
Uh, I definitely have to take my kids to the zoo.
We're going to go out to the Blue Mountains. Um,
I want to I the last time I was here,
I ended up. It was in summertime, so a little
bit different, but I ended up in almost all of
the bay's beaches from Balmoral, Rose Bay, double Bay. I
was just on and on and on. So I'd like
to do that with my daughter because it's her first
time in Australia. Uh, or first time in Sydney, I guess. And, um. Yeah,
(37:11):
I just want to, you know, I've it's been a really,
really busy period in the lead up to Carmen because
it's my first Carmen. There's been a lot of interest,
there's been a lot of excitement and, and, and, um,
and I'm also exploring a Carmen here that is not
going to be like Carmen, the Carmen, the the cliche,
let's put it that way. I don't want it to
(37:33):
just be frills and castanets and anne-louise Sarks and I
have have had such a beautiful relationship making a Carmen
that is both modern. Someone you can relate to, someone
who's edgy, who's who's, who's both a feminist but not
an not not anti-male, but absolutely a woman in charge
of herself and her own soul. Um, I've really loved that,
(37:55):
and I'm really happy to leave that here for Australian audiences,
that they will see a Carmen for years to come
that is based on these principles.
S2 (38:04):
We cannot wait to see it. And we are so
delighted to have you in Australia performing. Carmen, I won't
ask you to sing us out, but I will say
thank you so much, Danielle Denise, for joining us but
a good weekend talks.
S3 (38:15):
Thank you. It's been lovely to chat.
S1 (38:19):
That was opera singer Danielle de Niese being interviewed by
spectrum editor Melanie Kembrey on the latest Good Weekend talks.
If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to subscribe, rate
and comment wherever you get your podcasts and keep tuning
in for more compelling conversations coming soon. Freelance writer James
Button interviews Australian Human Rights Commission president Hugh de Kretser.
(38:42):
Good Weekend Talks is brought to you by the Sydney
Morning Herald and The Age. Proud newsrooms powered by subscriptions
to support independent journalism. Search, subscribe Sydney Morning Herald or
The Age? This episode of Good Weekend Talks is produced
by Konrad Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery, with technical
assistance from Kai Wong. Tammy Mills is our executive producer,
(39:05):
Tom McKendrick is head of audio and Greg Callahan is
the acting editor of Good Weekend.
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