For 34 years, Washington held training camp at Dickinson College, a small DIII school two and a half hours outside of D.C. The two-a-days were grueling. The isolation and slower pace could be uncomfortable. Not to mention those college dorm rooms. Yet, a whole lot of fun was had. The time here made a big impact on the team and the Carlisle, PA community.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Mentioned Dickinson College to a member of Washington from a
certain era, and you might just think they took a
math class at the small liberal arts school.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
If I had taken the months that I was at Dickinson, okay,
I would have had a doctorate's degree ten times over that.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I played twelve years with the Redskins times eight weeks.
It's like it's over a year of my life I
spent in Carlisle.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Like Sunny Jurgensen, if he was there ten years for
the Redskins, they were there eight to ten weeks. He
probably in his lifetime as a player, spent a year
and a half to two years of his lifetime in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
You go back there for thirteen years. I'll put it together.
One time, I said thirteen years. You're there for five weeks,
and that's that's more than a year. That's about a
year my life in Carlisle. But I don't put it
on my resume.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
You know a lot of math, but no math classes here,
just training camp for thirty four years. Training camp in Carlisle,
Pennsylvania was made up of grueling, boring days that altogether
would be ridiculous, unworthy of say listing on a resume,
(01:16):
and yet the time spent in this little city in
the Cumberland Valley was so important, so special to the
individual player, for the team, and for a community.
Speaker 6 (01:33):
So let's give it the spotlight.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
This is Hail Tails Stories from Washington Football History, Episode five.
Speaker 7 (01:55):
The little college in.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Pennsylvania, Washington had a training camp routine before Dickenson College,
but the team started to realize it was leaving guys
tired before the season had even started. Former general manager
(02:17):
Charlie Casterly sets the scene with.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
The stories that I was told to me was that
there was a game in the La Coliseum and I
think it was called the La Times Charity Game, but
it was a big game. It started preseason, a big
crowd there, moneymaker, and that the Washington football team would
start their training camp there the money we're there, and
there would take them all the way back east and
(02:40):
they'd barnstorm and play in different cities. Now already played
six games. But eventually it got to the point they
were worn out okay, and realized this wasn't good for
the team, so they were looking for a place back east.
And these were all stories that were told to me
by different people. When I was with the team that
they were having trouble. The team had integrated, there were
(03:02):
a number of places in the South that were ready
for that didn't want it. And whether it was by
design or by luck, the president of Dickinson College woke
the team a letter offering their site Carlisle, Pennsylvania, two
and a half plus hours from two and a half
hours from DC, up in the mountains in Pennsylvania, and
(03:22):
that's how they ended up there.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
The Dickinson College Training camp tradition started in nineteen sixty three.
Hosting the team was no small task for this little school.
Speaker 8 (03:33):
When he's dotting one around the executive director of Conferences
and Special Events at Dickinson College here in Carnil, Pennsylvania,
and I've worked here at Dickinson since nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Washington was the first summer conference Dickinson had ever had, and.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
The school took it very seriously.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Making sure the team was comfortable during their summer visit
required a lot of logistical considerations.
Speaker 7 (03:58):
Take the food, for instance.
Speaker 8 (04:00):
They had a separate serving line they because their food
requests were so different from what the other requests of
our normal conferees were, and they ate off what we
called meat plates, meat platters, not small dishes that are
regular dish size. For all the other conference people looked like,
you know, a salad plate to them.
Speaker 7 (04:20):
Then there were the rooms.
Speaker 8 (04:23):
Well, for one thing, they don't fit on a regular
college size twin bed, so we zip tied two twin
beds together and had queen size mattresses on those beds
that we zip tied together specifically for them. A regular
conference towel for the regular for the regular summer conference
person looked like a hand towel for the redskins, so
(04:44):
we bought special bath towels and wash cloths for them
so appropriate to their size. So we had to accommodate that.
Speaker 7 (04:52):
But it was just it was a lot of a
lot of.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Detail, accommodations carefully put in place practice fields eventually in
the team's backyard. Everybody's routine concerns or to do's could
for a few weeks be put on the shelf and
the focus could just be on.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Football, football and football.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Former punter Mike Bragg, who played for Washington from nineteen
sixty eight to nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
It was just football, you know. You had two practices
a day, you had meetings at night. And coach Allen
loved it, of course because it was like to him,
it was.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Like health camp.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And this period of course is not just about sharpening
the team physically but also mentally.
Speaker 7 (05:43):
As Sexter manly explains.
Speaker 9 (05:45):
Well, I tell you the mindset going into training camp
is war. You go to war with your own teammates.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Adding to that grind was the fact that training camp
back in the.
Speaker 7 (05:56):
Day was long. Rookies could be their eight weeks.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
That's six weeks plus there were six preseason games. Super
Bowl champion Doc Walker puts it bluntly, it.
Speaker 10 (06:09):
Was horrible, miserable, grueling. It's nothing that you'd want anybody
you care about they have to endure.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
John Jaqua, a rookie for Washington in nineteen seventy, wrote
about his training camp experience and a diary that has
never been shared before.
Speaker 11 (06:26):
Some excerpts Wednesday, July fifteenth, My roommate said he was
dying on the seven man sled while Tony and I
were being tortured on the two man sled. The Charlie
horses are getting me in my legs. I've taken ten
salt tablets, but every time I move, I feel them. Thursday,
July sixteenth, practice was hell. Tony and I ran and
ran and ran till we thought our guts were coming out. Saturday,
(06:50):
August first, seemed like Joe really wanted to go home.
We talked a lot about it, and Joe would joke
around and say I want my mama have six foot
three in two hundred and forty pounds. It was funny
to hear him say it, but he may have been serious.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
And let's be honest here. This was a different time.
Being a pro athlete came with habits that would today
make your jaw drop. Players put their bodies through drills
that right now would probably be banned. That was the norm.
Joe th Eisman, for example, remembers the hydration that occurred.
Speaker 12 (07:36):
We were a bunch of guys that would have fun.
Our offensive lineman would go to a bar and drink
after practice. I mean they'd bring out a case along
next and they'd throw them down. This was right after
before the meeting and after practice.
Speaker 7 (07:53):
There was also the smoking.
Speaker 12 (07:55):
I had Mike Bass on my right defensive back Pat
Fisher on my left in out of practice. First thing,
those guys do light up cigarettes and I'm looking around
going man Toto. This is in Kansas. It's a whole
different world. This is not the University of Notre.
Speaker 7 (08:12):
Dame and whatever else.
Speaker 11 (08:14):
Saturday, August eighth, we get taped and dressed. I'm pretty excited.
Most of the veterans are taking some kind of pep pill.
I don't take any out of fear that I might
forget all my keys and calls, etc. I didn't realize
these pills were so readily used, but most of the
old timers say that's the only way they can get
through the game.
Speaker 8 (08:33):
Back in the day when I began.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
George Stark, who played for Washington from nineteen seventy three
to nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 13 (08:43):
No days off, seven days a week.
Speaker 14 (08:45):
Sundays too, so eight weeks of two days, and you
hit in the morning, and you hit in the afternoon.
Speaker 11 (08:51):
Friday, July seventeen, we did the Lombardi Nutcracker today, and
I actually look forward to it. They set two bags
about a yard apart, and an offensive and defensive lineman
krackhas as we the running backs try to run through
the hole. It wasn't too bad until they put the
wide receivers against the linebackers. Linebackers throw a forearm and
(09:11):
send the wide receivers flying over the bags, and we
proceed to sprint into a brick wall. That wasn't so fun.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Be at the length the drills, or any number of
intense training camp factors, the team much of the time
was hurting. Dickenson College in the town of Carlisle, whether
they knew it or not, helped ease some of those pains.
Speaker 15 (09:39):
I remember there were a group of local people.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
There, Rolly McKenzie, two time Super Bowl champion and a
member of Washington from nineteen eighty five to nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 15 (09:50):
They always invited, you know, some of the guys over.
Speaker 14 (09:56):
To one of their.
Speaker 15 (09:57):
Houses and the you know, the they you know, of
course they liked the halls coming over there, and you know, we.
Speaker 14 (10:07):
Like to eat.
Speaker 8 (10:09):
And the ladies in the dining hall they had their
favorite players and so they would and they would know that,
you know, this person liked a certain kind of pie,
so they'd always make sure they held a piece of
that pie back for them, or they knew this player
like that. So they had their favorites and they would
they would, you know, take care of them. And the
other fun thing about the dining hall was. They would
(10:30):
come from afternoon practice and being super hot. You talked
about being hot and humid, and it was, and they
would walk into the walk in cooler in the dining
hall to cool down from practice.
Speaker 7 (10:41):
I'm not sure that meets.
Speaker 8 (10:43):
Health and safety regulations anymore, but back in the day,
that was something that they did. I'm not sure we
could get away with that in this day and age.
Speaker 14 (10:51):
You know, Carlisle was something else.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
It was.
Speaker 14 (10:54):
It was a town that every year you could count
on the stands being.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Full Mark super Bowl champion and kicker for Washington from
nineteen seventy four to nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 14 (11:06):
Now a lot of Washingtonians would drive up to Carlisle,
but the majority of the people in the stands every
day at practice were from Carlisle. And they would be there.
They would be on the streets. You couldn't go on
a restaurant, you couldn't walk. I used to walk back
and forth to practice every day, and I would have
kids around me the whole way wanting autographs and just
(11:28):
wanting to talk. And it was it was like home.
I mean, you felt like that you were at home
when you were there in Carlisle. They were just good people.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Carlisle made an impact on the team, and the team
certainly made an impact on Carlisle.
Speaker 16 (11:46):
It wasn't you know, it was a different error than
it was today where people would jump all over people
with trying to get selfies and you know, and signatures.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
This is Brian O'Neill. He's from the area and went
to Washingtonton's training camp in Carlisle in the eighties.
Speaker 16 (12:02):
I think it was more that the team would come
in and it was just neat that they became part
of the.
Speaker 8 (12:09):
Community and that I know, we had people who would
call and ask when would they be here? When because
they had open training camp and then of course they'd
close it, so when would open camp be because they
were planning their vacation around it.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
In addition to the emotional effect the team had, Washington's
presence provided a major financial boost to Carlisle in the
summers as well. In the early two thousands, The Washington
Post noted Dickinson professor Bill Bellinger did a study with
his students actually focusing on the economic impact of Washington's
training camp. They found that the camp circulated more than
(12:45):
four million dollars in two thousand and three, money through
the Carlisle community. Now, it would be interesting to know
just how much of that came from the team's visits
to one particular establishment.
Speaker 17 (12:59):
This restaurant caled Rilla's, Rilla's, That Rillo's restaurant, El Rillo's
Italian place. O, God, did you ever.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Hear about Rillo's Italian restaurant.
Speaker 8 (13:11):
You've interviewed some of the players. I'm sure they remember Rillo's.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
You had to go to Rilla's with outstanding.
Speaker 8 (13:16):
Food, and they even named a couple of dishes after
the team.
Speaker 7 (13:22):
If only those Rillo's walls could talk when.
Speaker 10 (13:24):
It was over with pizza. You never realized how good
pizza and beer really is until you're exhausted beyond your mind.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Sonny's birthday, Sonny Jergenson's birthday was I think it's August.
Speaker 8 (13:36):
The twenty third.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
For his birthday, they would go to this Italian restaurant
called Rilla's and they'd all come back for the afternoon
practice or reeking of garlic in red wine, and I'm
going like, oh my god, this is gonna be an
interesting practice.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Former Washington equipment assistant Tom Heckler heard similar stories.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
They used to go. It would probably be Billy kill
Sonny Myron Patios came from the Rams, Lenn Hawes and
probably Dyren Talbert and probably McDole. They would go there
maybe once or twice a week and they would do
as the people from Rillos would say. They would do
redskin style sausage and peppers, and they would eat that,
(14:19):
and then they would drink wine and drink beer. The
next morning after being out at Rillos, Coach Allen would
not come in any of the huddles because of the
garlic and the liquor and the wine. And then all
of a sudden afternoon practice George was in all the huddles,
but that morning, you know that didn't sweat out of
their pores yet and everything like that. So Coach Allen
(14:42):
didn't do anything in the huddles after the night at Rillos.
Speaker 13 (14:46):
One of my favorite stories involved a guy named Ron McDole.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Lenn Shapiro, writer for the Washington Post from nineteen sixty
nine to twenty ten, who.
Speaker 13 (14:55):
Was a huge defensive end from to Nebraska. One day
a two hundred and eighty five pounds or after a
second practice in ninety five degree heat and tremendous humidity,
Ron McDowell weighed into two hundred and sixty five pounds,
twenty pounds below his weight. Sonny Jergensen, who had retired
(15:17):
the previous year, was coming back up to camp to
see his old buddies, mcdoel being one of them. So
mcdoll and Sonny Jurgensen and Billy Killimer and a couple
of other guys wound up going to Rillo's to have
an Italian dinner and maybe a beer or two, which
was allowed sort of. The Next morning, when he weighed
(15:40):
back in training camp after losing twenty pounds the day before,
he had put on twenty two pounds and weighed to
eighty seven.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
The football all the time nature of Dickenson training camp,
the isolation in general, slower pace of Carlisle, it all
led to guys itching for entertainment and catharsis.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
But I the it was a couple couple. There was
a lot of stuff that I.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Went on and former defensive coordinator Larry Pecatello, Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
You know, guys playing pranks on themselves in the rooms
and things of that nature, and a lot of testosterone there.
You know, it's not all let out of practice.
Speaker 12 (16:24):
And I remember one night and we're practicing at night.
We didn't practice much at night, but this was a
night we're going to practice. So the bus drivers went
to get something to eat. We finished practice early, so
everybody went to the buses and we're sitting around waiting
and they said, Joe, take us back to the dorm.
I said, okay, fine. So I drove a bus for
(16:47):
the first time in my life. I think I took
out a street sign up in Carlisle. I'm not sure,
but they're very difficult to turn and drive. I have
to be honest with you. You have to have a special
talent to drive a bus, one of which I did
not possess a little.
Speaker 15 (17:00):
There were some people, you know, they'll go in or whatever,
taking nab or whatever between this or between the meeting
up practice whatever. They did this same boy. They can
penny penny you in in your own room and your
room and you can't get out.
Speaker 9 (17:19):
We out there practicing two or three hours and Mark's
walking around his tight pants and maybe his sunglasses because
he's a kicker. You know, he just kicked before practice,
after practice, doing practice, and it wasn't no, he wasn't sweating.
And we out there one hundred plus degrees sweating, and
(17:41):
I think those guys took up on himself. Let's tie
this guy to a gold post.
Speaker 10 (17:45):
Most one of my favorites of all time.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
Man, he is.
Speaker 10 (17:50):
Such a great guy. We abused him. He was the
subject of more pranks than anybody on the team.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Really.
Speaker 10 (17:58):
My part was like he had a in his locker,
and Moe was very detailed. You know, he had all
the jails and the hair sprays and all that. So
we poured, you know, always change it and put crap
inside of it. And we know we do all that,
you know, not mean thing, but putting vinegar in where
(18:20):
cologne would be or things like that.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Mosley could give it too. In nineteen seventy five, George
Allen asked the kicker to room with the team's new
defensive tackle, Dave Buttz, who had come into training camp
out of shape. He wasn't being welcomed by a handful
of players the famous Over the Hill Gang, and coach
needed just a little something to get him going.
Speaker 14 (18:40):
And I said, you want me coach to room the
day Butts. I said, I'm just the kicker here. Now
what do you expect me to do? He said, Well,
he said, I want you to get him motivated. And
I said, you want me a kicker to get they butts,
this big shoots, giant defensive tackle to get him motivated.
And he said yeah. I said, I think you can
do it too. And so time passed and our first
(19:04):
preseason game that year was against Miami down in Miami.
And I've always been kidded about having my hair perfect,
and you know, getting up and I would always get
up every Sunday morning and take a shower to wash
my hair and you know, do things and day Butts,
I knew, hated the cologne that I wore. I used
to wear Polo. So that morning I got up an
ice frayed Polo all over the bathroom, all over me
(19:26):
in the bathroom, and the smell was all in the room.
And I come walking out of the bathroom and Dave
jumps out of bed and he starts screaming and hollering
at me, mostly what in the world, like you mean?
He was cutting me out. He chased me out the room,
down the hall We're both running in our underwear down
the hallway and Dave Butts has chasing me down the hallway. Finally,
(19:47):
George Stark comes out of his room and says, what night,
what's going on out here? Grabbed a hold of Dave
and I run into the room and close the door,
and sure enough, Dave had the best game of of
his life that day.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Harmless fun that created a more bonded team. Camp at
Dickinson College by design, gave guys more opportunities for time
off the field together than any normal scenario.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
It was great camaraderie because you know, when you got
a chance, like when I was a rookie and you
got a chance to go up to the Walnut Bottom
and you're sitting there having a beer, and you know,
you're sitting there with you know, Hall of Fame quarterback
Sonny Jurgensen, and he says, you know, here's what you
can do. If you really want to help this help
(20:37):
this team and make this team, this is what you
need to do.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
And so all the rookies, you.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Know, as soon as he said that, it was like,
oh man, okay, I got to do that. But it
was your chance to really like sit down and spend
time away from the field and you know kind of
like develop a relationship of a more personal relationship with
that person.
Speaker 12 (20:58):
You get to know one another. You know, the exes
and o's and meeting rooms are fine, but the time
you spend away from it as a group together makes
a difference. Some of the greatest memories I've had about
the game really came off the field. Obviously, winning the
Super Bowl and all that goes without saying. But the
memories that you make away from the field are the
(21:19):
ones that.
Speaker 16 (21:20):
Stay with you.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
There was a love hate relationship with Carlisle. When that
final day of camp would come at the end of August,
an intense eagerness to leave sat closely with a deep
appreciation for the time spent.
Speaker 11 (21:38):
I'm going to close now my Carlisle training camp is over.
I know I'll forget all the pain and the mental
torture I've gone through these past six weeks. In fact,
I've forgotten a lot of it already. I'll be ready
to go through it again next year if given the chance.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Washington's annual tradition of going to Carlisle for camp ended
in nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Jack Can't Cook to deal with the state of Maryland
to build a stadium in Maryland. Part of the deal
was we had to move to training camp out of
Pennsylvania and into Maryland. That's how we ended up.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Across per So the team came back briefly in two
thousand and one.
Speaker 7 (22:12):
In two thousand and two, it didn't stick.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
The thirty four season stint at Dickinson College is the
longest period at one site in Washington's camp history.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
It is part of the tradition anything. Anytime you do
something for that long of a period, you got to
carve out somewhere a chapter about the team being there,
and you had legends there. Lombardy was there for a
year obviously, George Allen was there for all his period
of time. Joe Gibbs was there and you know, for
(22:44):
his period of time. So I think that just the
fact that and all the great players that came through there.
So to me, it's a chapter and there's a story
to be told there.
Speaker 12 (22:57):
To laugh together, to cry together, to spend time together,
to go out to dinner together, to talk about everything together, families, friends, business, football,
all of it just makes I think for a very
strong football team.
Speaker 10 (23:10):
So you can't fill those voids when the team is over,
when your days are done, when it's dispersed, they're gone.
You can't put that together that's why when you contacted
me to talk about Carl, I went, oh, yeah, because
that's a happy time.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
This episode was narrated, produced, and researched by me Hannah Liechtenstein,
senior copywriter for the Washington Commanders. It was produced and
edited by Jason Johnson. Executive producers are rayl and Teen,
Ryan Yoakum, and Kevin Klein. Graphics designed by Roman Schumann
and Rack kim Smith. Social media by Maggie Antulis and
Rebecca Solzbach. Alumni relations help comes from Tim high Tower
(24:01):
and Caroline Decio. Thank you to all of our guests
for their contributions and thank you for listening. Have a
favorite franchise moment you think should be featured on Hailtals,
Let us know and we just might cover it in
our next season.
Mentioned Dickinson College to a member of Washington from a
certain era, and you might just think they took a
math class at the small liberal arts school.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
If I had taken the months that I was at Dickinson, okay,
I would have had a doctorate's degree ten times over that.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I played twelve years with the Redskins times eight weeks.
It's like it's over a year of my life I
spent in Carlisle.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Like Sunny Jurgensen, if he was there ten years for
the Redskins, they were there eight to ten weeks. He
probably in his lifetime as a player, spent a year
and a half to two years of his lifetime in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
You go back there for thirteen years. I'll put it together.
One time, I said thirteen years. You're there for five weeks,
and that's that's more than a year. That's about a
year my life in Carlisle. But I don't put it
on my resume.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
You know a lot of math, but no math classes here,
just training camp for thirty four years. Training camp in Carlisle,
Pennsylvania was made up of grueling, boring days that altogether
would be ridiculous, unworthy of say listing on a resume,
(01:16):
and yet the time spent in this little city in
the Cumberland Valley was so important, so special to the
individual player, for the team, and for a community.
Speaker 6 (01:33):
So let's give it the spotlight.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
This is Hail Tails Stories from Washington Football History, Episode five.
Speaker 7 (01:55):
The little college in.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Pennsylvania, Washington had a training camp routine before Dickenson College,
but the team started to realize it was leaving guys
tired before the season had even started. Former general manager
(02:17):
Charlie Casterly sets the scene with.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
The stories that I was told to me was that
there was a game in the La Coliseum and I
think it was called the La Times Charity Game, but
it was a big game. It started preseason, a big
crowd there, moneymaker, and that the Washington football team would
start their training camp there the money we're there, and
there would take them all the way back east and
(02:40):
they'd barnstorm and play in different cities. Now already played
six games. But eventually it got to the point they
were worn out okay, and realized this wasn't good for
the team, so they were looking for a place back east.
And these were all stories that were told to me
by different people. When I was with the team that
they were having trouble. The team had integrated, there were
(03:02):
a number of places in the South that were ready
for that didn't want it. And whether it was by
design or by luck, the president of Dickinson College woke
the team a letter offering their site Carlisle, Pennsylvania, two
and a half plus hours from two and a half
hours from DC, up in the mountains in Pennsylvania, and
(03:22):
that's how they ended up there.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
The Dickinson College Training camp tradition started in nineteen sixty three.
Hosting the team was no small task for this little school.
Speaker 8 (03:33):
When he's dotting one around the executive director of Conferences
and Special Events at Dickinson College here in Carnil, Pennsylvania,
and I've worked here at Dickinson since nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Washington was the first summer conference Dickinson had ever had, and.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
The school took it very seriously.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Making sure the team was comfortable during their summer visit
required a lot of logistical considerations.
Speaker 7 (03:58):
Take the food, for instance.
Speaker 8 (04:00):
They had a separate serving line they because their food
requests were so different from what the other requests of
our normal conferees were, and they ate off what we
called meat plates, meat platters, not small dishes that are
regular dish size. For all the other conference people looked like,
you know, a salad plate to them.
Speaker 7 (04:20):
Then there were the rooms.
Speaker 8 (04:23):
Well, for one thing, they don't fit on a regular
college size twin bed, so we zip tied two twin
beds together and had queen size mattresses on those beds
that we zip tied together specifically for them. A regular
conference towel for the regular for the regular summer conference
person looked like a hand towel for the redskins, so
(04:44):
we bought special bath towels and wash cloths for them
so appropriate to their size. So we had to accommodate that.
Speaker 7 (04:52):
But it was just it was a lot of a
lot of.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Detail, accommodations carefully put in place practice fields eventually in
the team's backyard. Everybody's routine concerns or to do's could
for a few weeks be put on the shelf and
the focus could just be on.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Football, football and football.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Former punter Mike Bragg, who played for Washington from nineteen
sixty eight to nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
It was just football, you know. You had two practices
a day, you had meetings at night. And coach Allen
loved it, of course because it was like to him,
it was.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Like health camp.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And this period of course is not just about sharpening
the team physically but also mentally.
Speaker 7 (05:43):
As Sexter manly explains.
Speaker 9 (05:45):
Well, I tell you the mindset going into training camp
is war. You go to war with your own teammates.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Adding to that grind was the fact that training camp
back in the.
Speaker 7 (05:56):
Day was long. Rookies could be their eight weeks.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
That's six weeks plus there were six preseason games. Super
Bowl champion Doc Walker puts it bluntly, it.
Speaker 10 (06:09):
Was horrible, miserable, grueling. It's nothing that you'd want anybody
you care about they have to endure.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
John Jaqua, a rookie for Washington in nineteen seventy, wrote
about his training camp experience and a diary that has
never been shared before.
Speaker 11 (06:26):
Some excerpts Wednesday, July fifteenth, My roommate said he was
dying on the seven man sled while Tony and I
were being tortured on the two man sled. The Charlie
horses are getting me in my legs. I've taken ten
salt tablets, but every time I move, I feel them. Thursday,
July sixteenth, practice was hell. Tony and I ran and
ran and ran till we thought our guts were coming out. Saturday,
(06:50):
August first, seemed like Joe really wanted to go home.
We talked a lot about it, and Joe would joke
around and say I want my mama have six foot
three in two hundred and forty pounds. It was funny
to hear him say it, but he may have been serious.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
And let's be honest here. This was a different time.
Being a pro athlete came with habits that would today
make your jaw drop. Players put their bodies through drills
that right now would probably be banned. That was the norm.
Joe th Eisman, for example, remembers the hydration that occurred.
Speaker 12 (07:36):
We were a bunch of guys that would have fun.
Our offensive lineman would go to a bar and drink
after practice. I mean they'd bring out a case along
next and they'd throw them down. This was right after
before the meeting and after practice.
Speaker 7 (07:53):
There was also the smoking.
Speaker 12 (07:55):
I had Mike Bass on my right defensive back Pat
Fisher on my left in out of practice. First thing,
those guys do light up cigarettes and I'm looking around
going man Toto. This is in Kansas. It's a whole
different world. This is not the University of Notre.
Speaker 7 (08:12):
Dame and whatever else.
Speaker 11 (08:14):
Saturday, August eighth, we get taped and dressed. I'm pretty excited.
Most of the veterans are taking some kind of pep pill.
I don't take any out of fear that I might
forget all my keys and calls, etc. I didn't realize
these pills were so readily used, but most of the
old timers say that's the only way they can get
through the game.
Speaker 8 (08:33):
Back in the day when I began.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
George Stark, who played for Washington from nineteen seventy three
to nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 13 (08:43):
No days off, seven days a week.
Speaker 14 (08:45):
Sundays too, so eight weeks of two days, and you
hit in the morning, and you hit in the afternoon.
Speaker 11 (08:51):
Friday, July seventeen, we did the Lombardi Nutcracker today, and
I actually look forward to it. They set two bags
about a yard apart, and an offensive and defensive lineman
krackhas as we the running backs try to run through
the hole. It wasn't too bad until they put the
wide receivers against the linebackers. Linebackers throw a forearm and
(09:11):
send the wide receivers flying over the bags, and we
proceed to sprint into a brick wall. That wasn't so fun.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Be at the length the drills, or any number of
intense training camp factors, the team much of the time
was hurting. Dickenson College in the town of Carlisle, whether
they knew it or not, helped ease some of those pains.
Speaker 15 (09:39):
I remember there were a group of local people.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
There, Rolly McKenzie, two time Super Bowl champion and a
member of Washington from nineteen eighty five to nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 15 (09:50):
They always invited, you know, some of the guys over.
Speaker 14 (09:56):
To one of their.
Speaker 15 (09:57):
Houses and the you know, the they you know, of
course they liked the halls coming over there, and you know, we.
Speaker 14 (10:07):
Like to eat.
Speaker 8 (10:09):
And the ladies in the dining hall they had their
favorite players and so they would and they would know that,
you know, this person liked a certain kind of pie,
so they'd always make sure they held a piece of
that pie back for them, or they knew this player
like that. So they had their favorites and they would
they would, you know, take care of them. And the
other fun thing about the dining hall was. They would
(10:30):
come from afternoon practice and being super hot. You talked
about being hot and humid, and it was, and they
would walk into the walk in cooler in the dining
hall to cool down from practice.
Speaker 7 (10:41):
I'm not sure that meets.
Speaker 8 (10:43):
Health and safety regulations anymore, but back in the day,
that was something that they did. I'm not sure we
could get away with that in this day and age.
Speaker 14 (10:51):
You know, Carlisle was something else.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
It was.
Speaker 14 (10:54):
It was a town that every year you could count
on the stands being.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Full Mark super Bowl champion and kicker for Washington from
nineteen seventy four to nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 14 (11:06):
Now a lot of Washingtonians would drive up to Carlisle,
but the majority of the people in the stands every
day at practice were from Carlisle. And they would be there.
They would be on the streets. You couldn't go on
a restaurant, you couldn't walk. I used to walk back
and forth to practice every day, and I would have
kids around me the whole way wanting autographs and just
(11:28):
wanting to talk. And it was it was like home.
I mean, you felt like that you were at home
when you were there in Carlisle. They were just good people.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Carlisle made an impact on the team, and the team
certainly made an impact on Carlisle.
Speaker 16 (11:46):
It wasn't you know, it was a different error than
it was today where people would jump all over people
with trying to get selfies and you know, and signatures.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
This is Brian O'Neill. He's from the area and went
to Washingtonton's training camp in Carlisle in the eighties.
Speaker 16 (12:02):
I think it was more that the team would come
in and it was just neat that they became part
of the.
Speaker 8 (12:09):
Community and that I know, we had people who would
call and ask when would they be here? When because
they had open training camp and then of course they'd
close it, so when would open camp be because they
were planning their vacation around it.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
In addition to the emotional effect the team had, Washington's
presence provided a major financial boost to Carlisle in the
summers as well. In the early two thousands, The Washington
Post noted Dickinson professor Bill Bellinger did a study with
his students actually focusing on the economic impact of Washington's
training camp. They found that the camp circulated more than
(12:45):
four million dollars in two thousand and three, money through
the Carlisle community. Now, it would be interesting to know
just how much of that came from the team's visits
to one particular establishment.
Speaker 17 (12:59):
This restaurant caled Rilla's, Rilla's, That Rillo's restaurant, El Rillo's
Italian place. O, God, did you ever.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
Hear about Rillo's Italian restaurant.
Speaker 8 (13:11):
You've interviewed some of the players. I'm sure they remember Rillo's.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
You had to go to Rilla's with outstanding.
Speaker 8 (13:16):
Food, and they even named a couple of dishes after
the team.
Speaker 7 (13:22):
If only those Rillo's walls could talk when.
Speaker 10 (13:24):
It was over with pizza. You never realized how good
pizza and beer really is until you're exhausted beyond your mind.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Sonny's birthday, Sonny Jergenson's birthday was I think it's August.
Speaker 8 (13:36):
The twenty third.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
For his birthday, they would go to this Italian restaurant
called Rilla's and they'd all come back for the afternoon
practice or reeking of garlic in red wine, and I'm
going like, oh my god, this is gonna be an
interesting practice.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Former Washington equipment assistant Tom Heckler heard similar stories.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
They used to go. It would probably be Billy kill
Sonny Myron Patios came from the Rams, Lenn Hawes and
probably Dyren Talbert and probably McDole. They would go there
maybe once or twice a week and they would do
as the people from Rillos would say. They would do
redskin style sausage and peppers, and they would eat that,
(14:19):
and then they would drink wine and drink beer. The
next morning after being out at Rillos, Coach Allen would
not come in any of the huddles because of the
garlic and the liquor and the wine. And then all
of a sudden afternoon practice George was in all the huddles,
but that morning, you know that didn't sweat out of
their pores yet and everything like that. So Coach Allen
(14:42):
didn't do anything in the huddles after the night at Rillos.
Speaker 13 (14:46):
One of my favorite stories involved a guy named Ron McDole.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Lenn Shapiro, writer for the Washington Post from nineteen sixty
nine to twenty ten, who.
Speaker 13 (14:55):
Was a huge defensive end from to Nebraska. One day
a two hundred and eighty five pounds or after a
second practice in ninety five degree heat and tremendous humidity,
Ron McDowell weighed into two hundred and sixty five pounds,
twenty pounds below his weight. Sonny Jergensen, who had retired
(15:17):
the previous year, was coming back up to camp to
see his old buddies, mcdoel being one of them. So
mcdoll and Sonny Jurgensen and Billy Killimer and a couple
of other guys wound up going to Rillo's to have
an Italian dinner and maybe a beer or two, which
was allowed sort of. The Next morning, when he weighed
(15:40):
back in training camp after losing twenty pounds the day before,
he had put on twenty two pounds and weighed to
eighty seven.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
The football all the time nature of Dickenson training camp,
the isolation in general, slower pace of Carlisle, it all
led to guys itching for entertainment and catharsis.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
But I the it was a couple couple. There was
a lot of stuff that I.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Went on and former defensive coordinator Larry Pecatello, Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
You know, guys playing pranks on themselves in the rooms
and things of that nature, and a lot of testosterone there.
You know, it's not all let out of practice.
Speaker 12 (16:24):
And I remember one night and we're practicing at night.
We didn't practice much at night, but this was a
night we're going to practice. So the bus drivers went
to get something to eat. We finished practice early, so
everybody went to the buses and we're sitting around waiting
and they said, Joe, take us back to the dorm.
I said, okay, fine. So I drove a bus for
(16:47):
the first time in my life. I think I took
out a street sign up in Carlisle. I'm not sure,
but they're very difficult to turn and drive. I have
to be honest with you. You have to have a special
talent to drive a bus, one of which I did
not possess a little.
Speaker 15 (17:00):
There were some people, you know, they'll go in or whatever,
taking nab or whatever between this or between the meeting
up practice whatever. They did this same boy. They can
penny penny you in in your own room and your
room and you can't get out.
Speaker 9 (17:19):
We out there practicing two or three hours and Mark's
walking around his tight pants and maybe his sunglasses because
he's a kicker. You know, he just kicked before practice,
after practice, doing practice, and it wasn't no, he wasn't sweating.
And we out there one hundred plus degrees sweating, and
(17:41):
I think those guys took up on himself. Let's tie
this guy to a gold post.
Speaker 10 (17:45):
Most one of my favorites of all time.
Speaker 6 (17:47):
Man, he is.
Speaker 10 (17:50):
Such a great guy. We abused him. He was the
subject of more pranks than anybody on the team.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Really.
Speaker 10 (17:58):
My part was like he had a in his locker,
and Moe was very detailed. You know, he had all
the jails and the hair sprays and all that. So
we poured, you know, always change it and put crap
inside of it. And we know we do all that,
you know, not mean thing, but putting vinegar in where
(18:20):
cologne would be or things like that.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Mosley could give it too. In nineteen seventy five, George
Allen asked the kicker to room with the team's new
defensive tackle, Dave Buttz, who had come into training camp
out of shape. He wasn't being welcomed by a handful
of players the famous Over the Hill Gang, and coach
needed just a little something to get him going.
Speaker 14 (18:40):
And I said, you want me coach to room the
day Butts. I said, I'm just the kicker here. Now
what do you expect me to do? He said, Well,
he said, I want you to get him motivated. And
I said, you want me a kicker to get they butts,
this big shoots, giant defensive tackle to get him motivated.
And he said yeah. I said, I think you can
do it too. And so time passed and our first
(19:04):
preseason game that year was against Miami down in Miami.
And I've always been kidded about having my hair perfect,
and you know, getting up and I would always get
up every Sunday morning and take a shower to wash
my hair and you know, do things and day Butts,
I knew, hated the cologne that I wore. I used
to wear Polo. So that morning I got up an
ice frayed Polo all over the bathroom, all over me
(19:26):
in the bathroom, and the smell was all in the room.
And I come walking out of the bathroom and Dave
jumps out of bed and he starts screaming and hollering
at me, mostly what in the world, like you mean?
He was cutting me out. He chased me out the room,
down the hall We're both running in our underwear down
the hallway and Dave Butts has chasing me down the hallway. Finally,
(19:47):
George Stark comes out of his room and says, what night,
what's going on out here? Grabbed a hold of Dave
and I run into the room and close the door,
and sure enough, Dave had the best game of of
his life that day.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Harmless fun that created a more bonded team. Camp at
Dickinson College by design, gave guys more opportunities for time
off the field together than any normal scenario.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
It was great camaraderie because you know, when you got
a chance, like when I was a rookie and you
got a chance to go up to the Walnut Bottom
and you're sitting there having a beer, and you know,
you're sitting there with you know, Hall of Fame quarterback
Sonny Jurgensen, and he says, you know, here's what you
can do. If you really want to help this help
(20:37):
this team and make this team, this is what you
need to do.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
And so all the rookies, you.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Know, as soon as he said that, it was like,
oh man, okay, I got to do that. But it
was your chance to really like sit down and spend
time away from the field and you know kind of
like develop a relationship of a more personal relationship with
that person.
Speaker 12 (20:58):
You get to know one another. You know, the exes
and o's and meeting rooms are fine, but the time
you spend away from it as a group together makes
a difference. Some of the greatest memories I've had about
the game really came off the field. Obviously, winning the
Super Bowl and all that goes without saying. But the
memories that you make away from the field are the
(21:19):
ones that.
Speaker 16 (21:20):
Stay with you.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
There was a love hate relationship with Carlisle. When that
final day of camp would come at the end of August,
an intense eagerness to leave sat closely with a deep
appreciation for the time spent.
Speaker 11 (21:38):
I'm going to close now my Carlisle training camp is over.
I know I'll forget all the pain and the mental
torture I've gone through these past six weeks. In fact,
I've forgotten a lot of it already. I'll be ready
to go through it again next year if given the chance.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Washington's annual tradition of going to Carlisle for camp ended
in nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Jack Can't Cook to deal with the state of Maryland
to build a stadium in Maryland. Part of the deal
was we had to move to training camp out of
Pennsylvania and into Maryland. That's how we ended up.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Across per So the team came back briefly in two
thousand and one.
Speaker 7 (22:12):
In two thousand and two, it didn't stick.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
The thirty four season stint at Dickinson College is the
longest period at one site in Washington's camp history.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
It is part of the tradition anything. Anytime you do
something for that long of a period, you got to
carve out somewhere a chapter about the team being there,
and you had legends there. Lombardy was there for a
year obviously, George Allen was there for all his period
of time. Joe Gibbs was there and you know, for
(22:44):
his period of time. So I think that just the
fact that and all the great players that came through there.
So to me, it's a chapter and there's a story
to be told there.
Speaker 12 (22:57):
To laugh together, to cry together, to spend time together,
to go out to dinner together, to talk about everything together, families, friends, business, football,
all of it just makes I think for a very
strong football team.
Speaker 10 (23:10):
So you can't fill those voids when the team is over,
when your days are done, when it's dispersed, they're gone.
You can't put that together that's why when you contacted
me to talk about Carl, I went, oh, yeah, because
that's a happy time.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
This episode was narrated, produced, and researched by me Hannah Liechtenstein,
senior copywriter for the Washington Commanders. It was produced and
edited by Jason Johnson. Executive producers are rayl and Teen,
Ryan Yoakum, and Kevin Klein. Graphics designed by Roman Schumann
and Rack kim Smith. Social media by Maggie Antulis and
Rebecca Solzbach. Alumni relations help comes from Tim high Tower
(24:01):
and Caroline Decio. Thank you to all of our guests
for their contributions and thank you for listening. Have a
favorite franchise moment you think should be featured on Hailtals,
Let us know and we just might cover it in
our next season.
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