November 9, 2022 • 23 mins
Paul, Jeff, Lindsey, Priya, and senior editor Anna Kuno look back at 2022 and look ahead at what's next, including a new name for the podcast. The hosts reflect on topics that have stood out, lessons they have learned, and things that have surprised them, as well as why the show is now called Healthcare Changemakers.
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S1 (00:04):
And. Hello. Welcome to Prophets Healthcare Transformers podcast, where we'll
be talking to leaders in healthcare who are focused on
transforming their organizations to drive the next level of growth
for their business and for health care. Hosted by Priya
in Asia, Lindsay Moseby Paul Strength and Jeff Gordy. Transformation
(00:26):
is one of those terms that has a lot of
layers to it. Sometimes it's about innovation. Sometimes it's about
shifting the way you do business. Sometimes it's to your
overall operating model and other times it's to a specific
department or function. It's also about people helping them navigate
the discomfort that comes with change, but also motivating them
(00:47):
to engage in the journey of transformation from the CEO
to the newest employee. It's a journey, and that's why
we created this podcast to break down this multidimensional, dynamic
topic of transformation one story at a time. Are you
ready to dive in? Hi, I'm Anna, senior editor of
(01:09):
the Health Care Transformers podcast. Thanks for joining us. As
we look back over this podcast past year and look
ahead to what's next, it's always insightful to take a
moment and reflect on some of the most important topics
that were discussed on the show, things that surprised us
and things that we learned over this past year. So
who better to have on today's podcast than the host themselves?
(01:32):
For today's special edition episode, we're joined by the hosts
of Health Care. Transformers seem to be calling something new.
But more on that later. Priya, Lindsay, Jeff and Paul, welcome.
S2 (01:43):
Thanks, Anna.
S3 (01:44):
Thanks for getting us together.
S2 (01:46):
It's great to be on this side of the microphone.
S1 (01:48):
So Paul, let's start with you. When you look back
on the year and all the episodes that we did.
What's sort of the first thing that comes to mind?
S2 (01:57):
I can't help but think back to the first episode.
There is just so many things going through my mind.
We had an issue where what Chief clinical officer of
bamboo health and things kicked off with. Tell me about
yourself and something people might not know. And it was
funny that you came out of the gates going as
almost a Canadian astronaut. That's pretty cool. And then for
her to go into all the things that she was
(02:18):
working on at open beds now, bamboo health, going deep
in the opioid crisis and epidemic and overprescription and mental health,
and talking about all these issues that are in the
forefront of health care right now with somebody who has
stood up and run an organization being folded into a
bigger organization and thinking to myself during that conversation, going,
(02:39):
if these keep up, this is going to be amazing.
And it really has. But I just go back to
that first episode going, This is really cool and this
is the exact kind of conversations we need to be
having more of and highlighting real things and real people
driving transformational change in the market. Well, I think first
thing first for me is that we did all of
those podcasts. There's parts about each of them individually that
(03:03):
were wonderful, but I'm so glad that we actually spent
time and sort of put in what was, you know,
not insignificant effort to do all of those and to
gather all those voices and to listen to all those
stories and to get all of that expertise and be
able to package all of that up and then put
it out there on products platform for for others to
(03:25):
hear and to hopefully benefit from as well. So now
there's a million podcasts out there, but being able to
have one that's kind of curated to the type of
not only the type of work that we do, but
with the types of voices that we would love to
amplify in the market. I'm just really glad that we
did that period.
S3 (03:43):
I think for me, I think about just when I
thought I understood the breadth of transformation required in health care, right?
The need for providers to shift toward value based delivery
of care and everything that means for patients, the need
to bring, you know, digital technology into the patient experience
and etc., etc.. Then I listened to AJ from Capital
(04:05):
Eric's or Dan, you know, little inquest Intermountain Health Care
talk about the need for disruption and the whole way
drugs are developed come to market, price distributed and just
the list goes on and on and all of our guests,
you know what I love that we've done and I
guess I come from so many different angles. They've highlighted
just how complex it is, but the topic is so
many different angles and perspectives.
S2 (04:26):
Yeah, I'll lean into that a little bit. Jeff You know,
for me it was just how diverse these experiences of
leading a transformation can be. For some folks, it was
really about, you know, leading an internal mindset shift and
how to make that happen. And for others, it was
about changing the entire business model, the company that they
(04:47):
are working at and the way that things are done
in health care. So it really exposed all the different
facets of transformation that that you could be thinking about. Yeah.
And I think also on top of that, I've been
impressed with, I want to say almost every one of
our conversations, there was some sort of a catalyst in
their personal life that spurred them to do this. So
(05:09):
this kind of braiding or intersection of personal passion and
professional passion has really been coming through in a lot
of these stories. What I've also liked about these conversations
is not just understanding transformation, but the people behind it.
Those people driving the change, making the change happen has
been very insightful in terms of how things get done.
S1 (05:30):
Paul Do you have a specific example of why many
you particularly liked to and that was the case?
S2 (05:36):
Yes, it's one of those that we think about which
stands out. It was my my conversation with Michelle last
year of Boehringer Ingelheim. And if you listen to the episode,
I don't think I've even told anybody about this, but
you can actually feel a different episode in the front
half and in the back half. And I didn't know
she was going to go there, but I went into
something with like, what was the story? What spurred it?
(05:57):
And she paused and she described the moment when she
was a child and came home to find out that
her brother had committed. Suicide. And it really threw me
for a loop because we do interviews all the time
and I normally try to predict where is it going
to go. I didn't know how to field that next
(06:17):
set of questions. So as a moderator, that kind of
freaked me out in the mechanics. But the other piece
is once that settle down, the mood and the authenticity
and the comfort in conversation on that back half was rich.
And it's just you could you can almost see the
first half and the back half and you see that
individual for Michele. Why is he so passionate about what
(06:39):
she does? How she can link the business issues and
transformations into a personal story and find it very relatable.
But that one was a moment I'm not going to forget.
S3 (06:49):
Yeah. To your point, Paul, about I remember listening as well,
and it was a little bit of a head snap
moment for me on the point of really personal inspiration.
You know, our characters are Daniel and Quest, who started
as a lawyer in estate economics, became a lawyer, went
to politics, eventually came back to health care, and is
now stood up a generic drug company to manufacture insulin
(07:10):
where it all start. And he's got I think he
said two or three of his brothers have type one diabetes.
And they've just been you know, he's watched the importance
of that and the cost of that and all the
things broken with that his whole life. And, you know,
as the careers of all these come back and tackle
it head on.
S1 (07:25):
What about you? Is there a particular episode, either of
yours that you like to really stood out to you
or one of somebody else's that you liked?
S2 (07:33):
Yeah. You know, I really enjoyed interviewing Stella Sanchez of
Teladoc Health. She just had a great perspective on bringing
mindfulness into the transformation journey. I had never heard someone
talk about things in that way, but then I thought
about it a little bit more and I realized these
last two, almost three years that we've gone through with
(07:54):
the pandemic, so many of us tried to embed mindfulness
into our day to day lives and to think about
leading a transformation during that time. I thought it was
a really rich perspective that she shared, and she had
some great practical tips, too, about just how to get
a transformation done inside an organization. It's one thing to
have the vision and the idea for it. It's another
(08:17):
thing entirely to know how to make it happen. And
I just thought she did a wonderful job of articulating that. Jeff,
I got to say, your interview with Dan Mullen was
also just phenomenal. He had so many rich insights to
share about Intermountain Health. And I really love the Segway
into the the economics behind drug pricing. Just as a
(08:40):
little bit of a University of Chicago nerd on the
line here. I love that economic perspective and how that
created the impetus for Civic are so great conversation. I
think some of the most important things I learned from
my conversation with Jamie Edwards of Startup Health was how
(09:00):
increasingly important it's going to be to look to the
emerging organizations, the the venture industry, the startup communities for,
you know, the real sort of game changers and innovative
ways of sort of moving the industry forward. And maybe
(09:21):
alongside that, I think the other thing that he was
really saying was, of course, the big the main players
in health care, whether that's pharma or the payers or,
you know, health systems, of course, they are going to
continue to be the sort of the foundation for the
health care system, but it's the impact of bringing in
all of these new potentially younger but certainly less entrenched
(09:45):
voices that the startup health community is really amplifying is
going to be huge. The change is going to come
from outside. It's not only going to come from inside.
Has to be a little bit of both, of course,
But what he and that team is doing to sort
of push voices that otherwise wouldn't really get a seat
at the table into the spotlight is incredibly important.
S1 (10:07):
What would you say is some of the most important
things are that you learned from doing this podcast over
the past year?
S3 (10:14):
I think I talked I spoke earlier about the different angles,
the elements of health care that need to be transformed.
Adding to that point and to your question, Ana, it's
the diversity of players trying to do it. Now, again,
somewhat a function of the guest roster we put together,
but you've got what I'll call the big established players
(10:37):
like Intermountain, like Mass General, bring them. You've got some
kind of more small regional but established companies. Nick Patel
at Prisma Health, who was an example of that. And
then you've got the, you know, the small, scrappy startups
trying to find their angle, and you've got the people
like CVS who have not historically been retailers that are
becoming health care companies.
S2 (10:58):
There's an interesting, again, imperfect description clash of thinking or
diversity of thinking. Probably a better way of putting it,
but I. But my favorite quote so far this year
was Jeff's interview with Matt Glover Summit. And he asked
a question which I think we all thought we should
be asking, which is, well, what about people's need for
a relationship with their physician? And you can almost feel
(11:21):
him leaning the microphone like, that's the thing. I'm not
trying to sell them a relationship and trying to sell
them easy access to care. And it's like those those
diverse thinking of it is it kind of came through
is like we're asking the wrong question. We're solving for
the wrong problem. I'm trying to provide easy access to
care while people are asking about how do we hold
on physician relationships. I don't think either one's right or wrong,
(11:42):
but you see the energy and the dynamism in some
of these Q-and-A questions or Q&A sessions that I think
I find insightful and entertaining at the same time.
S3 (11:51):
Yeah. And on that note, Matt had one of my
as I was kind of looking back, one of my
one of the ideas that kind of stuck with me
was this vision of trying to create a modern health
system without hospitals. Right? Which is just a really interesting idea. And,
you know, I think Matt's point answer, Matt's point would
be that hospitals clearly have a need. Right? And sometimes
(12:14):
eventually all of us are going to need hospitals for
an awful lot of our health care. We don't. And
there's a whole lot that, you know, in his case,
some it can do to provide health care for people
without a hospital. And organizationally, as you know, as he
said and others have said, hospitals are big, important assets
in the center of the system, but they also can
slow you down. And that's something I know he's wrestled
(12:36):
with in his past.
S1 (12:37):
Yeah, I think that that take makes sense in theory,
but it was something that I think stuck out and
kind of surprised me as a as a new opinion.
Was there anything that particularly surprised you for many of
the episodes?
S2 (12:49):
I think maybe coming back to your point, Paul, about
how so many times folks personal experiences impacted how they
approach transformation? In my conversation with TAM, we talked a
lot about kind of creating a diverse playing field. Sometimes
we don't talk about that enough in health care. You know,
(13:10):
we talk about DTI sort of as its own topic,
but health care has got a long way to go
in terms of addressing issues like maternal mortality rates for
black women, our issues around patient's pain not being taken
seriously depending on their race. Tim did a lot to
(13:30):
articulate how to create a diverse trading environment inside her company,
and I was grateful that she shared that perspective because
it wasn't something that I was expecting in the conversation.
It certainly wasn't something I had questions planned around. But she,
you know, she went there and described it as a
part of her own personal philosophy. And I think it
(13:51):
was just a good wake up call for all of
us to be thinking about. Yeah, for sure. I think
there's a long way ahead of us on that. I
think the conversation with John, a head of diversity equity
inclusion at CVS Health, was interesting, which is we're sitting
on a set of issues or just problems that have
manifested themselves over years. And for us to think that
(14:13):
that's going to quickly change is a bit of a naivete.
But we can begin tackling it. But we do need
to be much more thoughtful, systematic about chipping away at
this because it's quite literally ingrained into too many things.
S1 (14:27):
To your point, Paul, I think one thing that I
liked about Joni's conversation was identifying sort of almost a
silver lining of what's happening over the past few years
with COVID. I feel like it's bringing up a lot
of the issues with health care and inequality to the forefront,
and hopefully they're sort of getting more of that attention
that they need now. So to sort of close us out,
(14:49):
I want to look ahead to the future. And I'm
curious to know from all of you, what are you
most looking forward to with either the podcast or generally
with health care in 2023?
S2 (15:00):
I'll I'll take a stab at that one, Ana. As
a team here, I've been batting around ideas about how
the different sectors in health care are blurring. And we
started to explore that in a couple of podcasts, but
I'd love to see more of that happen next year
in particular. There's there's four trends we've been focused on.
(15:20):
The first one is really about the connected and empowered
health consumer and how that's opening up new avenues of
of direct care. The second one was the expansion of the.
S1 (15:32):
Delivery.
S2 (15:33):
Ecosystem and everywhere care. So to Jeff's point about the
hospitals and the only place that we've got to go
for care, a lot of that hospital or the whole
transformation has been happening and every root and point along
the way. I'd love to hear more from our our
podcast interviewees about that. The third one was about the acceleration,
about value of value based care. And the last one
(15:56):
was about the democratization of data. And so I think
we've scratched the surface on some of those, you know,
some of those trends and topics this year, and I
think a lot. Of our podcast interviewees perspectives has helped
us shape our point of view around this. But there's
still so much more for us to explore when it
comes to how different sectors are blurring the lines in
(16:18):
health care. I am most looking forward to interviewing some
people from outside of traditional health care, so I would
love for us to invite in some folks from nutrition.
From sport. From wearables and smart apparel. And people that
(16:41):
sit outside of the normal health care industry, but who
are absolutely poised to make a big impact or to
help sort of change the way we think of care
delivery today. Currently, I'm on this kick around nutrition, so
I would love to interview somebody from an H-E-B or
(17:03):
a Whole Foods or one of the larger grocery chains
or chains or CVS to talk about how access to
healthy food is actually the business of health care. It's
not just the business of groceries, it's the business of
health care, right? If we actually believe that better nutrition
(17:26):
is a way of keeping millions of people from getting
type two diabetes and then potentially progressing to type one
or obesity or lots of other chronic conditions, then we
need to be looking at medicines to fix that. But also,
what are the ways that we could keep people from
(17:47):
getting sick in the first place? And access to healthy
food and not just what you're going to get from
your corner gas station out of a plastic bag. I
would love to talk to again to people sort of
outside of our normal pick picks. Yet another one that
I'm fascinated by is again, sort of wearables and smart fabrics,
(18:08):
whether that's silver, an colloidal silver infused fabric that is
actually healing to fabrics or materials that are sensing hydration.
Not everybody wants to wear smartwatch. Not everybody can afford
a smartwatch, but where there innovations being tapped into that
(18:30):
are going to really sort of move the needle and
make it again, make it make that sort of advanced
technology and the insight that it drives more available to
more people. I think that would be really fascinating. I agree.
I think in building on that, I think what I'm
hoping to see more of is more tangible progress. It's
hard to have a conversation, I guess, in this decade
(18:51):
without talking about the pandemic, but I guess I'll just
go there to be on topic. But with health care,
it was already was lagging so far behind on so
many consumer related things, business operating needs where we hit
the pandemic. And it was a wake up call. A
lot of quick fixes were put into place. And then
(19:12):
we began rethinking things with a little bit more seriousness
to it. So we've kind of gone through a scrappy mode, too,
a orientation mode, and I think we're now going to
be moving into a chapter of of getting stuff done.
And that's what's been really great about these conversations, is
it's real people doing real things. And we're beginning to
take these white papers and this thought leadership and being
(19:32):
able to connect it with what do you go do
about it, What can you expect and have some optimism
knowing that it progress is being made? And that's what's
getting me really excited as we move into next year
and beyond.
S3 (19:44):
Yeah, we get into the middle of next year where
all of a sudden, you know, three plus years since
the start of the pandemic, I remember saying a lot
to my anyone who would listen right in the early
days when no one was going in for colonoscopies and
no one was going in for these quote unquote, elective procedures,
that didn't always sound so elective. Right. We I think
(20:04):
we are starting to see a picture more and more
that some of those procedures just went away and just
didn't happen. Right. Some were pent up and are coming back,
but by and large, a lot went away. So we've
kind of lived a social science experiment, Right? What does
that mean? And I think it will probably play out
over a decade. But I wouldn't be surprised if, you know,
as we get into the middle of next year, we
(20:25):
start to see some real time studies coming back and
just look at what actually happened to population health and
overall outcomes and where were they negatively affected by delays
in procedures and where do we learn that maybe we
didn't need to do as many. Right. And to look
in both the outcome data over time and start to
see some of the economic data that comes back over time. Again,
I think it will emerge over and over more than
(20:45):
just the next 6 to 12 months. But I think
we're starting to see some of that next year.
S1 (20:48):
Thank you so much, Judge Lindsay and Paul. I'm really
looking forward to seeing what we can accomplish in 2023.
And speaking of the future of the podcast, I mentioned
at the opening that the podcast will be getting a
slight name change. So Priya, can you tell us more
about that?
S2 (21:05):
So profit health care has come up with a philosophy
about our work that we think is really central to transformation.
We believe the organizations that thrive in health care are
those that dare to change the game, striving to improve
human health, create better experiences and make the best of
care an enduring and sustainable reality for all. A profit
(21:27):
We help ambitious change makers transform care experiences, create new
enterprises and build more empathetic, sustainable ways of working that
deliver superior value for healthier, happier humans and more successful
businesses across health care. Those that will transform health care
are the change makers, and we exist to be their
(21:48):
champions for change. So for this podcast, we recognize that
we need to focus not just on the transformation itself
or really dial into and recognize the people that are
behind the transformation, the ones that are making the change happen.
So moving forward, we're going to be re titling the
podcast Health Care Change Makers to reflect that.
S3 (22:10):
Interestingly, big organizations tend to reward people and allow them
to get at the top by minimizing risk. Right. It's
a rare person who can be a change maker and
actually get into a position within a big organization to
drive change. We've been really lucky that we found a
few of them, and I'm looking forward to showcasing more
of them. Right. So you've got the big organizations that
(22:32):
are risk averse. You've got the smaller organizations which are
by nature, you know, total risk takers but don't have
don't have the influence. But finding those on the up
and up change makers that are kind of scaling that
organizations or those that have managed to thrive and succeed
in a big organization are really the most exciting clients
for us to have. And going forward, the most exciting
(22:53):
podcast for us to have on. We've had a few
and I'm looking forward to having more next year.
S1 (22:57):
Health Care Changemakers. I love it. Thank you again. Bridge
and Paul Lindsey. I'm so excited to see what's in
store for this podcast. I'm Anna, senior editor of the
Healthcare Changemakers Podcast. Thanks for listening.
And. Hello. Welcome to Prophets Healthcare Transformers podcast, where we'll
be talking to leaders in healthcare who are focused on
transforming their organizations to drive the next level of growth
for their business and for health care. Hosted by Priya
in Asia, Lindsay Moseby Paul Strength and Jeff Gordy. Transformation
(00:26):
is one of those terms that has a lot of
layers to it. Sometimes it's about innovation. Sometimes it's about
shifting the way you do business. Sometimes it's to your
overall operating model and other times it's to a specific
department or function. It's also about people helping them navigate
the discomfort that comes with change, but also motivating them
(00:47):
to engage in the journey of transformation from the CEO
to the newest employee. It's a journey, and that's why
we created this podcast to break down this multidimensional, dynamic
topic of transformation one story at a time. Are you
ready to dive in? Hi, I'm Anna, senior editor of
(01:09):
the Health Care Transformers podcast. Thanks for joining us. As
we look back over this podcast past year and look
ahead to what's next, it's always insightful to take a
moment and reflect on some of the most important topics
that were discussed on the show, things that surprised us
and things that we learned over this past year. So
who better to have on today's podcast than the host themselves?
(01:32):
For today's special edition episode, we're joined by the hosts
of Health Care. Transformers seem to be calling something new.
But more on that later. Priya, Lindsay, Jeff and Paul, welcome.
S2 (01:43):
Thanks, Anna.
S3 (01:44):
Thanks for getting us together.
S2 (01:46):
It's great to be on this side of the microphone.
S1 (01:48):
So Paul, let's start with you. When you look back
on the year and all the episodes that we did.
What's sort of the first thing that comes to mind?
S2 (01:57):
I can't help but think back to the first episode.
There is just so many things going through my mind.
We had an issue where what Chief clinical officer of
bamboo health and things kicked off with. Tell me about
yourself and something people might not know. And it was
funny that you came out of the gates going as
almost a Canadian astronaut. That's pretty cool. And then for
her to go into all the things that she was
(02:18):
working on at open beds now, bamboo health, going deep
in the opioid crisis and epidemic and overprescription and mental health,
and talking about all these issues that are in the
forefront of health care right now with somebody who has
stood up and run an organization being folded into a
bigger organization and thinking to myself during that conversation, going,
(02:39):
if these keep up, this is going to be amazing.
And it really has. But I just go back to
that first episode going, This is really cool and this
is the exact kind of conversations we need to be
having more of and highlighting real things and real people
driving transformational change in the market. Well, I think first
thing first for me is that we did all of
those podcasts. There's parts about each of them individually that
(03:03):
were wonderful, but I'm so glad that we actually spent
time and sort of put in what was, you know,
not insignificant effort to do all of those and to
gather all those voices and to listen to all those
stories and to get all of that expertise and be
able to package all of that up and then put
it out there on products platform for for others to
(03:25):
hear and to hopefully benefit from as well. So now
there's a million podcasts out there, but being able to
have one that's kind of curated to the type of
not only the type of work that we do, but
with the types of voices that we would love to
amplify in the market. I'm just really glad that we
did that period.
S3 (03:43):
I think for me, I think about just when I
thought I understood the breadth of transformation required in health care, right?
The need for providers to shift toward value based delivery
of care and everything that means for patients, the need
to bring, you know, digital technology into the patient experience
and etc., etc.. Then I listened to AJ from Capital
(04:05):
Eric's or Dan, you know, little inquest Intermountain Health Care
talk about the need for disruption and the whole way
drugs are developed come to market, price distributed and just
the list goes on and on and all of our guests,
you know what I love that we've done and I
guess I come from so many different angles. They've highlighted
just how complex it is, but the topic is so
many different angles and perspectives.
S2 (04:26):
Yeah, I'll lean into that a little bit. Jeff You know,
for me it was just how diverse these experiences of
leading a transformation can be. For some folks, it was
really about, you know, leading an internal mindset shift and
how to make that happen. And for others, it was
about changing the entire business model, the company that they
(04:47):
are working at and the way that things are done
in health care. So it really exposed all the different
facets of transformation that that you could be thinking about. Yeah.
And I think also on top of that, I've been
impressed with, I want to say almost every one of
our conversations, there was some sort of a catalyst in
their personal life that spurred them to do this. So
(05:09):
this kind of braiding or intersection of personal passion and
professional passion has really been coming through in a lot
of these stories. What I've also liked about these conversations
is not just understanding transformation, but the people behind it.
Those people driving the change, making the change happen has
been very insightful in terms of how things get done.
S1 (05:30):
Paul Do you have a specific example of why many
you particularly liked to and that was the case?
S2 (05:36):
Yes, it's one of those that we think about which
stands out. It was my my conversation with Michelle last
year of Boehringer Ingelheim. And if you listen to the episode,
I don't think I've even told anybody about this, but
you can actually feel a different episode in the front
half and in the back half. And I didn't know
she was going to go there, but I went into
something with like, what was the story? What spurred it?
(05:57):
And she paused and she described the moment when she
was a child and came home to find out that
her brother had committed. Suicide. And it really threw me
for a loop because we do interviews all the time
and I normally try to predict where is it going
to go. I didn't know how to field that next
(06:17):
set of questions. So as a moderator, that kind of
freaked me out in the mechanics. But the other piece
is once that settle down, the mood and the authenticity
and the comfort in conversation on that back half was rich.
And it's just you could you can almost see the
first half and the back half and you see that
individual for Michele. Why is he so passionate about what
(06:39):
she does? How she can link the business issues and
transformations into a personal story and find it very relatable.
But that one was a moment I'm not going to forget.
S3 (06:49):
Yeah. To your point, Paul, about I remember listening as well,
and it was a little bit of a head snap
moment for me on the point of really personal inspiration.
You know, our characters are Daniel and Quest, who started
as a lawyer in estate economics, became a lawyer, went
to politics, eventually came back to health care, and is
now stood up a generic drug company to manufacture insulin
(07:10):
where it all start. And he's got I think he
said two or three of his brothers have type one diabetes.
And they've just been you know, he's watched the importance
of that and the cost of that and all the
things broken with that his whole life. And, you know,
as the careers of all these come back and tackle
it head on.
S1 (07:25):
What about you? Is there a particular episode, either of
yours that you like to really stood out to you
or one of somebody else's that you liked?
S2 (07:33):
Yeah. You know, I really enjoyed interviewing Stella Sanchez of
Teladoc Health. She just had a great perspective on bringing
mindfulness into the transformation journey. I had never heard someone
talk about things in that way, but then I thought
about it a little bit more and I realized these
last two, almost three years that we've gone through with
(07:54):
the pandemic, so many of us tried to embed mindfulness
into our day to day lives and to think about
leading a transformation during that time. I thought it was
a really rich perspective that she shared, and she had
some great practical tips, too, about just how to get
a transformation done inside an organization. It's one thing to
have the vision and the idea for it. It's another
(08:17):
thing entirely to know how to make it happen. And
I just thought she did a wonderful job of articulating that. Jeff,
I got to say, your interview with Dan Mullen was
also just phenomenal. He had so many rich insights to
share about Intermountain Health. And I really love the Segway
into the the economics behind drug pricing. Just as a
(08:40):
little bit of a University of Chicago nerd on the
line here. I love that economic perspective and how that
created the impetus for Civic are so great conversation. I
think some of the most important things I learned from
my conversation with Jamie Edwards of Startup Health was how
(09:00):
increasingly important it's going to be to look to the
emerging organizations, the the venture industry, the startup communities for,
you know, the real sort of game changers and innovative
ways of sort of moving the industry forward. And maybe
(09:21):
alongside that, I think the other thing that he was
really saying was, of course, the big the main players
in health care, whether that's pharma or the payers or,
you know, health systems, of course, they are going to
continue to be the sort of the foundation for the
health care system, but it's the impact of bringing in
all of these new potentially younger but certainly less entrenched
(09:45):
voices that the startup health community is really amplifying is
going to be huge. The change is going to come
from outside. It's not only going to come from inside.
Has to be a little bit of both, of course,
But what he and that team is doing to sort
of push voices that otherwise wouldn't really get a seat
at the table into the spotlight is incredibly important.
S1 (10:07):
What would you say is some of the most important
things are that you learned from doing this podcast over
the past year?
S3 (10:14):
I think I talked I spoke earlier about the different angles,
the elements of health care that need to be transformed.
Adding to that point and to your question, Ana, it's
the diversity of players trying to do it. Now, again,
somewhat a function of the guest roster we put together,
but you've got what I'll call the big established players
(10:37):
like Intermountain, like Mass General, bring them. You've got some
kind of more small regional but established companies. Nick Patel
at Prisma Health, who was an example of that. And
then you've got the, you know, the small, scrappy startups
trying to find their angle, and you've got the people
like CVS who have not historically been retailers that are
becoming health care companies.
S2 (10:58):
There's an interesting, again, imperfect description clash of thinking or
diversity of thinking. Probably a better way of putting it,
but I. But my favorite quote so far this year
was Jeff's interview with Matt Glover Summit. And he asked
a question which I think we all thought we should
be asking, which is, well, what about people's need for
a relationship with their physician? And you can almost feel
(11:21):
him leaning the microphone like, that's the thing. I'm not
trying to sell them a relationship and trying to sell
them easy access to care. And it's like those those
diverse thinking of it is it kind of came through
is like we're asking the wrong question. We're solving for
the wrong problem. I'm trying to provide easy access to
care while people are asking about how do we hold
on physician relationships. I don't think either one's right or wrong,
(11:42):
but you see the energy and the dynamism in some
of these Q-and-A questions or Q&A sessions that I think
I find insightful and entertaining at the same time.
S3 (11:51):
Yeah. And on that note, Matt had one of my
as I was kind of looking back, one of my
one of the ideas that kind of stuck with me
was this vision of trying to create a modern health
system without hospitals. Right? Which is just a really interesting idea. And,
you know, I think Matt's point answer, Matt's point would
be that hospitals clearly have a need. Right? And sometimes
(12:14):
eventually all of us are going to need hospitals for
an awful lot of our health care. We don't. And
there's a whole lot that, you know, in his case,
some it can do to provide health care for people
without a hospital. And organizationally, as you know, as he
said and others have said, hospitals are big, important assets
in the center of the system, but they also can
slow you down. And that's something I know he's wrestled
(12:36):
with in his past.
S1 (12:37):
Yeah, I think that that take makes sense in theory,
but it was something that I think stuck out and
kind of surprised me as a as a new opinion.
Was there anything that particularly surprised you for many of
the episodes?
S2 (12:49):
I think maybe coming back to your point, Paul, about
how so many times folks personal experiences impacted how they
approach transformation? In my conversation with TAM, we talked a
lot about kind of creating a diverse playing field. Sometimes
we don't talk about that enough in health care. You know,
(13:10):
we talk about DTI sort of as its own topic,
but health care has got a long way to go
in terms of addressing issues like maternal mortality rates for
black women, our issues around patient's pain not being taken
seriously depending on their race. Tim did a lot to
(13:30):
articulate how to create a diverse trading environment inside her company,
and I was grateful that she shared that perspective because
it wasn't something that I was expecting in the conversation.
It certainly wasn't something I had questions planned around. But she,
you know, she went there and described it as a
part of her own personal philosophy. And I think it
(13:51):
was just a good wake up call for all of
us to be thinking about. Yeah, for sure. I think
there's a long way ahead of us on that. I
think the conversation with John, a head of diversity equity
inclusion at CVS Health, was interesting, which is we're sitting
on a set of issues or just problems that have
manifested themselves over years. And for us to think that
(14:13):
that's going to quickly change is a bit of a naivete.
But we can begin tackling it. But we do need
to be much more thoughtful, systematic about chipping away at
this because it's quite literally ingrained into too many things.
S1 (14:27):
To your point, Paul, I think one thing that I
liked about Joni's conversation was identifying sort of almost a
silver lining of what's happening over the past few years
with COVID. I feel like it's bringing up a lot
of the issues with health care and inequality to the forefront,
and hopefully they're sort of getting more of that attention
that they need now. So to sort of close us out,
(14:49):
I want to look ahead to the future. And I'm
curious to know from all of you, what are you
most looking forward to with either the podcast or generally
with health care in 2023?
S2 (15:00):
I'll I'll take a stab at that one, Ana. As
a team here, I've been batting around ideas about how
the different sectors in health care are blurring. And we
started to explore that in a couple of podcasts, but
I'd love to see more of that happen next year
in particular. There's there's four trends we've been focused on.
(15:20):
The first one is really about the connected and empowered
health consumer and how that's opening up new avenues of
of direct care. The second one was the expansion of the.
S1 (15:32):
Delivery.
S2 (15:33):
Ecosystem and everywhere care. So to Jeff's point about the
hospitals and the only place that we've got to go
for care, a lot of that hospital or the whole
transformation has been happening and every root and point along
the way. I'd love to hear more from our our
podcast interviewees about that. The third one was about the acceleration,
about value of value based care. And the last one
(15:56):
was about the democratization of data. And so I think
we've scratched the surface on some of those, you know,
some of those trends and topics this year, and I
think a lot. Of our podcast interviewees perspectives has helped
us shape our point of view around this. But there's
still so much more for us to explore when it
comes to how different sectors are blurring the lines in
(16:18):
health care. I am most looking forward to interviewing some
people from outside of traditional health care, so I would
love for us to invite in some folks from nutrition.
From sport. From wearables and smart apparel. And people that
(16:41):
sit outside of the normal health care industry, but who
are absolutely poised to make a big impact or to
help sort of change the way we think of care
delivery today. Currently, I'm on this kick around nutrition, so
I would love to interview somebody from an H-E-B or
(17:03):
a Whole Foods or one of the larger grocery chains
or chains or CVS to talk about how access to
healthy food is actually the business of health care. It's
not just the business of groceries, it's the business of
health care, right? If we actually believe that better nutrition
(17:26):
is a way of keeping millions of people from getting
type two diabetes and then potentially progressing to type one
or obesity or lots of other chronic conditions, then we
need to be looking at medicines to fix that. But also,
what are the ways that we could keep people from
(17:47):
getting sick in the first place? And access to healthy
food and not just what you're going to get from
your corner gas station out of a plastic bag. I
would love to talk to again to people sort of
outside of our normal pick picks. Yet another one that
I'm fascinated by is again, sort of wearables and smart fabrics,
(18:08):
whether that's silver, an colloidal silver infused fabric that is
actually healing to fabrics or materials that are sensing hydration.
Not everybody wants to wear smartwatch. Not everybody can afford
a smartwatch, but where there innovations being tapped into that
(18:30):
are going to really sort of move the needle and
make it again, make it make that sort of advanced
technology and the insight that it drives more available to
more people. I think that would be really fascinating. I agree.
I think in building on that, I think what I'm
hoping to see more of is more tangible progress. It's
hard to have a conversation, I guess, in this decade
(18:51):
without talking about the pandemic, but I guess I'll just
go there to be on topic. But with health care,
it was already was lagging so far behind on so
many consumer related things, business operating needs where we hit
the pandemic. And it was a wake up call. A
lot of quick fixes were put into place. And then
(19:12):
we began rethinking things with a little bit more seriousness
to it. So we've kind of gone through a scrappy mode, too,
a orientation mode, and I think we're now going to
be moving into a chapter of of getting stuff done.
And that's what's been really great about these conversations, is
it's real people doing real things. And we're beginning to
take these white papers and this thought leadership and being
(19:32):
able to connect it with what do you go do
about it, What can you expect and have some optimism
knowing that it progress is being made? And that's what's
getting me really excited as we move into next year
and beyond.
S3 (19:44):
Yeah, we get into the middle of next year where
all of a sudden, you know, three plus years since
the start of the pandemic, I remember saying a lot
to my anyone who would listen right in the early
days when no one was going in for colonoscopies and
no one was going in for these quote unquote, elective procedures,
that didn't always sound so elective. Right. We I think
(20:04):
we are starting to see a picture more and more
that some of those procedures just went away and just
didn't happen. Right. Some were pent up and are coming back,
but by and large, a lot went away. So we've
kind of lived a social science experiment, Right? What does
that mean? And I think it will probably play out
over a decade. But I wouldn't be surprised if, you know,
as we get into the middle of next year, we
(20:25):
start to see some real time studies coming back and
just look at what actually happened to population health and
overall outcomes and where were they negatively affected by delays
in procedures and where do we learn that maybe we
didn't need to do as many. Right. And to look
in both the outcome data over time and start to
see some of the economic data that comes back over time. Again,
I think it will emerge over and over more than
(20:45):
just the next 6 to 12 months. But I think
we're starting to see some of that next year.
S1 (20:48):
Thank you so much, Judge Lindsay and Paul. I'm really
looking forward to seeing what we can accomplish in 2023.
And speaking of the future of the podcast, I mentioned
at the opening that the podcast will be getting a
slight name change. So Priya, can you tell us more
about that?
S2 (21:05):
So profit health care has come up with a philosophy
about our work that we think is really central to transformation.
We believe the organizations that thrive in health care are
those that dare to change the game, striving to improve
human health, create better experiences and make the best of
care an enduring and sustainable reality for all. A profit
(21:27):
We help ambitious change makers transform care experiences, create new
enterprises and build more empathetic, sustainable ways of working that
deliver superior value for healthier, happier humans and more successful
businesses across health care. Those that will transform health care
are the change makers, and we exist to be their
(21:48):
champions for change. So for this podcast, we recognize that
we need to focus not just on the transformation itself
or really dial into and recognize the people that are
behind the transformation, the ones that are making the change happen.
So moving forward, we're going to be re titling the
podcast Health Care Change Makers to reflect that.
S3 (22:10):
Interestingly, big organizations tend to reward people and allow them
to get at the top by minimizing risk. Right. It's
a rare person who can be a change maker and
actually get into a position within a big organization to
drive change. We've been really lucky that we found a
few of them, and I'm looking forward to showcasing more
of them. Right. So you've got the big organizations that
(22:32):
are risk averse. You've got the smaller organizations which are
by nature, you know, total risk takers but don't have
don't have the influence. But finding those on the up
and up change makers that are kind of scaling that
organizations or those that have managed to thrive and succeed
in a big organization are really the most exciting clients
for us to have. And going forward, the most exciting
(22:53):
podcast for us to have on. We've had a few
and I'm looking forward to having more next year.
S1 (22:57):
Health Care Changemakers. I love it. Thank you again. Bridge
and Paul Lindsey. I'm so excited to see what's in
store for this podcast. I'm Anna, senior editor of the
Healthcare Changemakers Podcast. Thanks for listening.
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