Hear This 28th March 2025

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Episode Transcript

S1 (00:09):
Take a look. Take a look inside the book. Take
a look.

S2 (00:24):
Hello and welcome to hear this. I'm Frances Keeland, bringing
you the Vision Australia Library show, talking about books in
the Vision Australia collection. Now, I have been very disorganised
this year. I recorded this, uh, what's going to be
on today's show with Stella Glory a couple of weeks
ago for International Women's Day. But then other events, um,
unfolded that were programmed. So I'm going back because I

(00:48):
love talking to Stella, and Stella had so many great
recommendations of books that have influenced her. So this is
in celebration of International Women's Day. It's never too late
and I hope you enjoy the show. And we're back
today with Stellar Glory, an interview by telephone. Stellar is

(01:12):
a familiar voice to many people, and I know that, uh,
some people have said, oh, it's good to hear stellar
on the radio again at Vision Australia Radio. So stellar.
How are you today.

S3 (01:22):
Steve Francis? How are you?

S2 (01:24):
I'm good. Thank you.

S3 (01:26):
And happy almost international women's day.

S2 (01:30):
Yeah. Happy International Women's Day to you as well. We
thought it would be a good idea just to talk
about books that have, um, been great influences written by
women's authors. It's amazing the memories that you have of
women's books when you kind of open up your mind
and you go, so what did I read? Oh, that one, oh,
that one, oh, and that one.

S3 (01:49):
So absolutely, it's such a great idea that you did.
And what you said is absolutely true, because when I
started thinking about it, I thought, oh my gosh, they
were all women's writers. Now, I wanted to become a
writer and all through primary school wasn't that I kind
of gravitated towards a book written by a woman. That's

(02:12):
just what was there as well. I mean, there were
plenty of fellas, but why don't we think about the
earliest books like Enid Blyton, Ethel Turner, who were all Australians? Uh,
Louisa may Alcott. I have to talk about Ruth Park,
of course, but with Ethel Turner, who was the really

(02:33):
brilliant Seven Little Australians, which I read on repeat. I
was lucky I've got 707. I've got three older sisters
and my parents also read. I'm from a non-English speaking
background and my parents discovered the library. They were like,
look at this place. We're taking our kids to this

(02:54):
library where you can get this these free books, which
will help you read. I don't know what came first.
I don't know if one of my older sisters said
to Mum and dad, we've got to go to the library,
we have to get these books. You've got to go there.
I don't know, but I just know it was a
regular weekly thing, that we went to the local library

(03:14):
and got these books out. And I remember when I
was in primary school, my sisters must have read Jane
Eyre as part of their curriculum. They would have been
in high school. It was on television, the really old
one of Jane Eyre. So then after that I read
Jane Eyre, and then they made Seven Little Australians into

(03:37):
a TV series.

S2 (03:38):
They did, and it was so well done.

S3 (03:41):
It was fantastic, really fantastic. Although I suspect if we
watched it now we might go, um, hurry up. So
a big fan of Enid Blyton, I love Secret Seven
and we were talking before when I was in primary school.
I grew up in WA and we spent a long

(04:04):
a lot of time on the coast. We had like
a beach shack, and I remember reading these English books
about kids who went to the seaside. Total opposite to
my experience of being actually at the beach, at the ocean,
in the wilds of WA.

S2 (04:21):
Yeah. The English influence in children's literature was strong in
Australia very much.

S3 (04:28):
I loved Ruth Park. I had a teacher in grade
five who read us The Muddle-headed Wombat, and then I
went on to read harp in the South, Poor Man's Orange.
And they were turned into fabulous TV series as well.
But my go to reads, I think all through primary school,

(04:50):
maybe early high school, definitely seven little Australians and I
loved Little Women. I have seen all the movies and
all the TV series and there's not one of them
I dislike.

S2 (05:03):
So can I just ask, what age would you have
been when you first read Seven Little Australians?

S3 (05:09):
I think I saw the TV series before I read
the book, so I might have been about ten when
the TV series came out.

S2 (05:18):
And then what about Little women?

S3 (05:21):
Little women, probably around the same age. I had read
the book, and I remember one Sunday afternoon, I think
I might have been a little bit older, actually, because
one Sunday afternoon the movie was on, uh, with uh,
the 1940s version was on. I remember watching it.

S2 (05:42):
Yeah.

S3 (05:43):
And I remember my friend's mother said, oh, I wish
we all still dressed like that. It was really ridiculous
where they where actually the character complains about the clothes
that she was wearing.

S2 (05:58):
Yes or yes. Let's bring back those restrictive bonnet bonnets that,
you know, are sort of like I will say.

S3 (06:05):
Now, there is another book about the Civil War that
is written from a white person's perspective. So I'm not
not opposed to different. You know, often they talk about, oh,
they've increased the feminism in the book. And really the
movies are a combination of little women and good wives.

(06:27):
So the movies aren't ever just it's not just little
women because little women, the book stops when they're kind
of at about 12 or 13.

S2 (06:37):
Yeah.

S3 (06:37):
And there are a number of books, like most books
that I've written about, read about the American Civil War. Well,
all of them. It's all from white people's perspective. So
I think, you know, we we need to read that
with well, for me, I read that with that sensibility
in mind, I'm never going to stop reading that book.

(07:00):
I'm never going to stop enjoying it. I'm never going
to stop having my perspective of what you know, what
it means. Some of the characters, I love it.

S2 (07:10):
What about what about, um, moving, like To Kill a mockingbird?
When did you first read that?

S3 (07:16):
I first read that I think I was about 13,
and I didn't fully understand it. I thought it was
about the kids, and it kind of was. But there's
a bigger picture going on in that book. I mean, there's,
you know, there's racism and there's, um. Yeah. Well, it
is all about that's the story. Well, the crux of

(07:38):
the story and, you know, mockingbird is about everybody repeating
particular lies. So what they say about black people in
America and also what they talk about with Boo Radley,
like it's all about how misinformation gets spread.

S2 (07:56):
Wow. Yes.

S3 (07:57):
Through that. And that's. That's what. That's what a mockingbird does.
It just repeats. It mocks what it's heard. And that keeps.

S2 (08:08):
I have never heard that before. Um. That interpretation. Thank you.
That's that's that's what he said.

S3 (08:14):
He said it's a it's a it's a crime to
kill a mockingbird. Because that's all a mockingbird. That's Atticus Finch.
He understands. Whereas I sort of think, well, you should
kill the mockingbird. Really? Um, it's a beautiful, fantastic book.
It is such a beautiful book, and the movie is astounding.

(08:35):
And I watched it again after so many years, and
I absolutely loved it. And I hope they never remake it.
And if they do remake it, I hope it's a
television series.

S2 (08:47):
Wouldn't it make a great series? Yeah. Yeah. Now, Ruth Park,
you've already mentioned her, but, um, when did you discover
Ruth Park or start reading her.

S3 (08:55):
Primary school was Muddle-headed Wombat, and then later on we
read all the time and it became a family thing.
All the sisters and my mum, we all read the, um,
harp in the South and Poor Man's Orange, and then
in the early 80s might have been or maybe mid 80s.
We watched, uh, the television series and absolutely adored it.

(09:18):
For me, when I first went to Sydney, I went
looking for Ruth Park, Sydney. I went to Surry Hills.
I think the way she writes landscape, even though her
characters are fantastic and also she's got her bias as well.
Like there are some parts that, um, you can see

(09:39):
where her own prejudice comes in. There's quite a, you know,
she can be patronising. Mama is a racist. Um, but
we're supposed to love these characters, which we do. We
love all the characters. But what I think Rothbart also does,
that she captures Sydney so beautifully, like the sounds that

(10:05):
come from the harbour. She captures inner life, everyone's inner life,
so beautifully. Beautifully. And what I loved about all these
books is that they center the girls so very much so.
Even in Seven Little Australians, you get everyone's insights. Most
particularly you get Judy. Well, Judy, it's Judy's book, but

(10:26):
you get Meg and Judy. You get everyone's insight. But, um,
particularly Judy and me.

S2 (10:32):
Let's move on now to The Thorn Birds.

S3 (10:35):
Ah, so when I was 17, I should have been
in biology class, and I was in the library, the
school library. So I was at TAFE by that stage.
I had left high school a couple of years beforehand
and decided I'd go to TAFE. I was in the
library and I saw the thorn bird. That is a
big book. Yeah, I read the first half in one sitting.

(10:58):
I could not put it down. I also grew up
a Catholic, so the idea of a Catholic priest being
attractive was very strange. Very alien idea. But I loved it.
I loved the drama of it again. You've got a

(11:19):
character front and center, trying to have agency in her life,
but being unable to have that agency and also being
quite beautiful, where that was both a bit of a
blessing and a curse.

S2 (11:31):
And what about Elizabeth Jolley?

S3 (11:34):
Oh, I loved her, Elizabeth Jolley. I read a lot
of Elizabeth Jolley well before I went to, um, uh, University,
the newspaper of Claremont Street. They've got older women up
until then, all the books. Young girls, young girls, young women.
Elizabeth Jolley. No. Talked about old women. They were probably

(11:55):
60 years old. They could have been 99 and 100. Well,
I read all of her short stories, and all of
her and her books weren't big, slim books. I read
all of those. Miles Franklin, My brilliant career. What a
fantastic book and what an amazing. Now there was someone
who wasn't going to get married. Brilliant movie. Jessica Anderson

(12:18):
Tirra Lirra by the River. Another older woman.

S2 (12:21):
I've never read that.

S3 (12:23):
Beautiful.

S2 (12:24):
Is it? What is. What does it. What is it about?

S3 (12:26):
Well, it's quite a slim book. So. Tirra Lirra by
the River. That's an old poem. And it's almost the
recollections of a older woman in a country town. Well,
a large regional town. Yes, I think in the early 1900s.
And that's all I can remember. I remember it beautiful,

(12:49):
but also the description of an older woman's hands, but
beautifully descriptive, like they never like. It's never about sagging skin,
but it's just like the translucent of an older person's hands,
like dried leaves. But there's something quite beautiful about it.

S2 (13:10):
In terms of modern women writers. Um, who is on
your radar at the moment?

S3 (13:17):
Um, I'm pretty committed at the moment to reading lots
of Australian women, but I will say I was a
big Hilary Mantel fan and what a huge loss for
my radar. I have just read Cath Crowley's memoir of
Dorothy Parker.

S2 (13:36):
That's right.

S3 (13:37):
Yes, I talked about that recently. I don't know if
I did, but it's wonderful. Dorothy Parker in Hollywood absolutely
loved it. And speaking of memoir and speaking of Dorothy's
Australian poet Dorothy Porter. Dorothy Porter.

S2 (13:54):
Yep. Yeah. She's the one that died. Yeah.

S3 (13:57):
Yeah. She died, I think, at about maybe 10 to
15 years ago. So her sister, Josie Skinner, has written
a memoir or, um, autobiography about her and her sister
and the differences between them. And I think Josie was
actually involved in a religious cult while her sister went

(14:19):
out to be, you know, this, this, this literary darling and, um,
living the lesbian life in Sydney and Melbourne. And their
father was, uh, quite a well known person in his
own right as well. Yeah. So that is on my radar.
Most definitely. The stellar prize longlist has just come out.

(14:43):
I'm going to go looking through that and I think
has the women's prize in the UK is that there's
a long list out for that at the moment.

S2 (14:53):
Oh, great. And Stella, your, um, wonderful, uh, 30 books again.
Can you just tell us what that's about?

S3 (15:02):
So, ah, it is about supporting, uh, Australian books and
Australian writers. One way we can support them, uh, is
by buying their books. If you can't afford to buy. Absolutely.
But also supporting our fabulous library. I'm on YouTube, I
review books, so I interview writers. I'm also on Instagram,

(15:26):
mainly on Instagram nowadays because what a great platform that is.
But who owns it? Of course. And uh, I'm currently
on air on uh, here it is.

S2 (15:37):
Yes. Which is fantastic to have you. And I love
the way you describe the books. Like today, your book
reviews are wonderful. You capture so much of the heart
of a book in beautiful words. So thank you so
much Stella. I've really appreciated today. And, um, yes, enjoy
International Women's Day.

S3 (15:55):
Thank you Francis. You too. And thanks for inviting me
on the program.

S2 (16:05):
Thank you to Stella Gloria, for coming in to talk
about her, um, early influences, the books she loved as
a child and teenager and adult. So I've picked about
five books to have samples from. The first one, I
thought we'd start off with Seven Little Australians. This is
by Ethel Turner and published in 1894, when she was

(16:27):
24 years old. This centres on the Walcott family, who
live in a large, rambling house on the Parramatta River
nicknamed misrule. When Judy falls ill after escaping from her
boarding school, the family visits country property Yarra Ha'penny, where
she recuperates. But after a dreadful accident, Judy dies and

(16:47):
her death deeply affects her family. Let's hear a sample
of the opening of Seven Little Australians by Ethel Turner.
It's narrated by Mary-Louise Parker.

S4 (16:58):
The captain remembered Judy's own mother had often said she
trembled for Judy's future. That restless fire of hers that
shone out of her dancing eyes and glowed scarlet on
her cheeks in excitement and lent amazing energy and activity
to her young, lithe body, would either make a noble, daring,
brilliant woman of her, or else she would be shipwrecked

(17:21):
on rocks the others would never come to, and it
would flame up higher and higher and consume her. Be
careful of Judy had been almost the last words of
the anxious mother. When in the light that comes when
the world is going out. She had seen with terrible
clearness the stones and briars in the way that particular

(17:42):
pair of small, eager feet. And she had died. And
Judy was stumbling right amongst them now. And her father
could not be careful of her because he absolutely did
not know how. As he went up the veranda steps again,
and through the hall, he was wishing almost prayerfully she

(18:02):
had not been cast in so different a mould from
the others. Wishing he could stamp out that strange flame
in her that made him so uneasy at times. He
gave a great puff at his cigar and sighed profoundly.
Then he turned on his heel and went off towards
the stables to forget it all.

S2 (18:19):
And that was Seven Little Australians by Ethel Turner. Ethel
is Ettie Turner is t u r e r. And
that book goes for five hours. And listening to the
forward to this book, it was written by her granddaughter,
who has a lovely, um, little portrait of Ethel Turner.

(18:41):
Seven Little Australians is also available in Braille, and there
are a couple of other books that are available in audio. Uh,
by Ethel Turner. Miss Bobby and the Family at Misrule.
Now let's move on to Ruth Park and her novel
harp in the South. This was originally published in 1948,

(19:06):
in a tiny, dirty old terrace house in Sydney's slums.
Live the Darcy family. For them, life is hard. But
it is never without promise. Interwoven with their lives are
the mysterious Miss Shelly Lick, Jimmy the Chinese grocer and
the notorious Dele stock. Let's hear a sample of the
Harp in the South by Ruth Park. It's narrated by

(19:29):
Beverley Dunn.

S5 (19:31):
The hills are full of Irish people. When their grandfathers
and great grandfathers arrived in Sydney, they went naturally to shantytown.
Not because they were dirty or lazy, though many of
them were that, but because they were poor, and wherever
there are poor. You will find landlords who build tenements,
cramming two on a. Piece of land no bigger than

(19:53):
a pocket handkerchief and letting them. For the rent of
four in the squalid, mazy streets of sandstone double. Decker houses,
each with its little balcony edged with rusty iron lace.
And its door opening onto the street, or four square
feet of front. Every second name is an Irish one.

(20:13):
There are Brody's and Caseys and Murphys and O'Briens, and
down by the corner are Casement and Grogan and Kell.
And although here and there you find a simich, or
a ciciliano, or a Jewish shopkeeper, or a Chinese laundryman,
most are Irish. Even the names of the streets tell

(20:33):
the story of those old immigrants who came looking for
roads cobbled with gold and found them made of stone,
harder than an overseer's heart. There is Fay Street running
off Riley Street, and both of them branching from Coronation Street,
which had the name of Kelleher before they changed it
to honour Queen Victoria.

S2 (20:53):
And that was a sample of The Harp in the
South by Ruth Park. Ruth is spelt r u t
h r u t h and park is p a
r e. And that book goes for 11.5 hours. The
harp in the South was Ruth Park's debut novel, and
it's a little bit hard to believe, but at the
time this novel was incredibly controversial. There were angry letters

(21:16):
that were being sent into the newspapers. Some people were
very favorable, comparing her to John Steinbeck, um, as an Australian,
John Steinbeck. The harp in the South first appeared in
the Sydney Morning Herald in 12 daily instalments at the time,
Ruth attributed much of the venom to her portrayal of
slum dwellers as fully rounded human beings, rather than a

(21:38):
social problem. Miles Franklin didn't really like the novel as well.
In fact, she sniped to a friend, it is a shoddy,
sordid performance of a very phony journalistic book full of
catch cries to the gallery. And there's a fantastic article
here that I'm kind of, uh, you know, talking about.
So this is from reading Australia. Reading Australia. And a

(22:07):
wonderful essay by Delia Falconer critiquing and giving a bit
of a history and background of the author and the
book in her article, The Harp in the South. So,
essay by Delia Falconer. I highly recommend that. It's really interesting.
And there are many books by Ruth Park in the collection.
There's Kelly's family, there's also her memoirs, part one and

(22:29):
part two. Um, the first one being A fence around
the cuckoo, the first volume, and then fishing in the Styx, uh,
where she talks a lot about her marriage and work.
Her marriage to D'Arcy Niland, and how she came upon
her writing The harp in the South and creating this
amazing family. There is also Home Before Dark. Um. Mrs.

(22:55):
and the Muddle-headed wombat with Stella. Also mentioned with great
fondness and playing Beatie Bow. Another favourite, um, young adult novel.
Next up, The Thorn Birds by Colleen McCulloch. In the
rugged Australian outback, three extraordinary generations of clearys live through
joy and sadness, bitter defeat and magnificent triumph. Driven by

(23:18):
their dreams, sustained by remarkable strength of character and torn
by dark passions, violence and a scandalous family legacy of
forbidden love. Let's hear a sample of The Thorn Birds
by Colleen McCulloch. It's narrated by Andrew Timothy.

S6 (23:34):
On December 8th, 1915, Meggie Cleary had her fourth birthday
after the breakfast dishes were put away. Her mother silently
thrust a brown paper parcel into her arms and ordered
her outside. Sir. Maggie squatted down behind the gorse bush
next to the front gate and tugged impatiently. Her fingers

(23:56):
were clumsy, the wrapping heavy. It smelt faintly of the
wine general store, which told her that whatever lay inside
the parcel had miraculously been bought, not homemade or donated.
Something fine, and Mistily gold began to poke through a corner.

(24:18):
She attacked the paper faster, peeling it away in long,
ragged strips. Agnes. Oh, Agnes, she said, lovingly, blinking at
the doll, lying there in a tattered nest. A miracle indeed.
Only once in her life had Maggie been in to
Wahid all the way back in May because she'd been

(24:40):
a very good girl. So perched in the buggy beside
her mother on her best behavior she'd been too excited
to see or remember much except for Agnes, the beautiful
doll sitting on the store counter dressed in a crinoline
of pink satin with cream lace frills all over it.

S2 (25:00):
And that was a sample of The Thorn Birds by
Colleen McCulloch. Colleen is c o w e c o
w e. McCulloch is MC00GHMCOGH. And that novel goes for ah,

(25:22):
23 or nearly 24 hours. And The Thorn Birds was
published originally in 1977. And now to Elizabeth Jolley. There
are many books by her in the collection. Um, but
I'm going to play a sample of a short story
called the River, which appears in Learning to Dance. Elizabeth Jolley,
Her Life and Work. This is by Elizabeth Jolley and

(25:45):
Caroline Lurie. Elizabeth Jolley was one of the one of
Australia's most significant and best loved writers, delighting readers with
her acute observations of the world, her wicked humour, her compassion,
and her honesty. Learning to dance brings together some of
her most poignant short stories, essays and poems, and includes
two formerly unpublished pieces. The recurring themes of her life

(26:07):
and work are evident here the complex relationships within families,
homesickness and exile, intense love between women, the healing power
of the land, the inevitability of loneliness and the fragile
nature of happiness. Together, these writings form something close to
an autobiography. Above all, they are a celebration of Elizabeth's

(26:29):
rich life and work. Let's hear a sample of Learning
to Dance by Elizabeth Jolley. Her life and work. It's
narrated by Beverley Dunn.

S5 (26:38):
Don't suck your thumb here, Eric. Isabel spoke sharply to
the boy, Eric, who sat hunched in the shade of
one of the trailing peppermint trees. Isn't it strange how
the women from Italy who have come here wear black dresses?
Isabel spoke in a different tone. She was watching the

(27:00):
people going by. I mean them wearing black dresses when
everyone else is in bathing costumes and shorts. Because it's Sunday,
I suppose. Not that it matters. It just looks odd.
Some of them. That one there. Isabel nodded her head
to indicate she's very handsome. Very striking. Not what you

(27:25):
would call pretty, though. Don't you agree? Dennis? Her husband
murmured a reply without looking up from his Henry James.
He had a list of serious reading for the holidays
and was already embarked. Both he and Isabel were irritated
by Eric, hunched up, hot and thumbsucking, and refusing to

(27:47):
go into the water with their other two children, Denise
and Jose. Jose was a square shaped child and happy,
still a baby and able to ride on her big
sister's back in the shallow, kindhearted River. Denise was 13.
Isabel had never liked the name Denise at the time

(28:09):
of her birth. Dennis's mother had been staying with them,
and everyone had been so sure the baby was to
be a boy. There was nothing Isabel could do about it,
and within a half an hour of the baby's arrival,
Dennis and his mother had started calling her Denise.

S2 (28:25):
So that was the beginning of a short story called
the River From Learning to Dance. Elizabeth Jolley, her life
and work. Um. Elizabeth is l I z a b
e t h e l I z a b e
t h. Jolly is j o w e y j
o w l e y. And that book goes for

(28:48):
11 hours and ten minutes. Thank you for joining us
on here this today I'm Frances Kelland I hope you
enjoyed the show. Thank you, Stella, for coming in and
bringing up a lot of memories of childhood and young

(29:08):
adult books. If you would like to join the library,
you can always call them on 1300 654 656. That's 1300 654 656. Or
you can email a library at Vision Australia. Org that's all.
Have a lovely week and we'll be back next week

(29:29):
with more here. This.