September 23, 2025 • 23 mins
Can ChatGPT really help manage your budget? Join Canna Campbell - a financial planner for 20 years - and Fear & Greed's Michael Thompson as they put AI through its paces to see whether it can help a household manage its money.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to How Do They Afford That, the podcast that
peaks into the financial lives of everyday Australians. I'm Uncale Thompson.
I'm an author and the co host of the podcast
Fear and Greed business News. As always, I'm with Cannon Campbell,
financial planner, founder of Sugar Mama TV, the financial literacy
platform which you'll find on YouTube, podcast books, Instagram, threads, TikTok, keynotes, speeches,
(00:22):
just say keynote speeches.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Just then, No, you said keynote. I heard it. Oh god,
I'm clear, Okay, all.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Right, I wish I hadn't drawn attention to it. Now. Hello, Canna,
good morning, how are you? I am going well? Today
we are talking about chat GPT, one of our favorite topics.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I have mentioned in previous episodes that I'm in a relationship,
a complicated relationship with chat GBT.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well, I want to explore the depths of that relationship
today because I've been seeing a lot of posts online.
Just the look on your face just then, thought you
thought I was going somewhere inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Didn't you. No, honestly, no, No, that's your mind that's
in the gutter, not mine.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Fair I'll take that a lot of talk lately about
chat gpt as you would.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Expect, Oh yeah, ai is viral.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's huge, but in particular how it can manage your budget.
A lot of people talking about on Instagram and TikTok
and everything that they're using chat gpt to manage their
household budget. So I'm curious does it work? How does
it work? Should we all be doing it? These are
the questions I'm going to ask you. Let's start with
(01:26):
the very basics, though, if we may, can it actually
help or is this just a gimmick?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
No, it can help, It really can, but it's I
would say, a tool to assist you in getting started
is not actually the complete solution, and it can definitely
help create awareness in your spending. But most importantly, it
can actually provide you a structure, which is really valuable.
If you're someone who knows you've got to do a budget,
(01:55):
keeps putting it off and feels completely overwhelmed. So this
will literally within seconds, create a structure for you to
get started.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Okay, what I'm going to do. I want to get
a bit more of an understanding of how it all works,
and then a little bit later on we're going to
do a little bit of a demo. And I've done
a demo too, and we're going to put it to
the tests.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I tested it as well.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Oh great, we have a budget battle. We can make
them fight. What are the kinds of things then? Is
it just structural? Is it just going hey, I need
to kind of figure out how this is all going
to fit together. Is it just a structural thing? Is
it personalized kind of how much detail or is it
just the fact that you've got to put more detail
in in order to get something more detailed out.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So the prompts are key, and the more information you
can share with chat gibt, the better the content or
the solution that it's going to give you back. So
you know, you can get it to create like a
weekly budget or a monthly budget. It can also dump
everything into an Excel spreadsheet or even a Google sheets,
(02:57):
which makes it really easy to get started. It can
also help categorize your spending habits, so you can put
you know, all your clothing, so you might have like
sports clothing, kids clothing, uniforms. It can actually group them
all together so you can really hone in and see
where you're spending money. And it can also help you
(03:17):
consider or analyze which budgeting methods you know that are
quite popular right now that might be suited for you,
such as you know, the envelope system or the fifty
thirty twenty or the zero based budgeting rules, which we've
spoken about on previous episodes, and it can really help
you brainstorm different saving strategies and then project how you
might be tracking for a particular goal. But you've got
(03:38):
to put that goal obviously in there in the first place.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Okay, I'll get to those questions that you should be
asking the very first thing that you should be kind
of putting to chat GPT in a sec. But I'm
getting the vibe from you that it is probably more
for beginners rather than someone who's already got an So
you're you are an experienced budget Yeah, you are probably
(04:05):
going to be better than chat GPT at this.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Look. I had to go at putting our budget in
and you can even actually copy and paste your transactions,
like your bank transactions into chat GPT to help you
do your budget, which is quite a cool little hack.
But I put ours in and I was my I'm
going to sound horrible, but I think the results I
thought were pretty pathetic, and I thought they were fraught
with danger. And that's my honest opinion, because you really,
(04:31):
if you want to be good at your budget, you've
got to make sure you can also stick to it
to make it good. So then that's why I think
it becomes very one dimensional. But I still think chat
GPT is a great way to get started, particularly for beginners.
So you would use it as your first draft to
get started one hundred percent, But then you've got to
build with detail and be incredibly intentional and informed from
(04:57):
that point on, So it could potentially, I'm when I
sort of undo the meanness by saying that it's a
great tool to get started and create that awareness, and
it could potentially, once you build from there, make you
a bit of an expert budgeter.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Okay, all right, I think we're now kind of figuring
out the scope here. Really it is an introductory thing.
It is more of set up the bones and then
you pat it out yourself.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
We will in a minute do that full demo because
I'm so intrigued. I want to see where the problems are.
When you say that it's pathetic, I want to know
what assumptions it made that were wrong or what it
told you that it's just not feasible, that kind of thing.
So we'll get to that in a minute. All right,
if we are just coming into it as using it
for a starting point, Okay, where do we start? What's
(05:49):
the first thing that we should be asking it? Is
it putting our overall householding come in and saying help me?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yes? So, first thing, I think you's be real clearest
to what you want. You know, do you want a
weekly budget? You're a monthly budget, or do you want
to sort of map out the next three hundred and
sixty five days? And then obviously you've got to put
in as much information as possible, so you know income,
you know, all your regular expenses, all your irregular irregular expenses,
you know, even talking about when expenses are due. And
(06:18):
you could also put in some goals if you like.
I'd also be asking chat GPT when when you're doing
your budget, what am I missing here? And you can
ask questions like, you know, where can I save the
most amount of money or where could I redirect these
savings to help me with my goals? You know, try
(06:39):
and not be too vague because you're only going to
get vague responses back. But so the more information you
can put in the better. And also I mean with
chat GPT you can it gets to learn your voice,
so the more if you've been using it for a while,
it understands a little bit about yourself and what's important
to you, so it can if you've been using chat
GBT for a while, that can be too advantage improving
(07:01):
the output that you get.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
As you've been saying this, it does strike me that
there are some potential risks as well, security risks, and
there have been a lot of warnings out there about
using chat GPT, but almost trusting it too much. It
is not a financial planner. It's not someone who basically
is sworn to secrecy and will protect your confidentiality. That
(07:25):
you are putting information in there, that essentially you are
providing it to a public company, and that it is
not secure what you're putting in there, so you should.
You are fine to put in broad information like I
need a weekly budget, and this is how much I
spend on my mortgage, and this is how much money
I'm making a month, for instance, But you would never
(07:47):
put in tax file here's my.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Bank account detail exactly. Absolutely going to be really like
common sense, but also be smart because it can be hacked,
and you know, as you I know, it could definitely
become public, so you've obviously got to be smart about that.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
But de identify it essentially, take the identifying details out exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And I did a bit of you know, I obviously
ran my own budget through it, and then I jumped
online and I went down a bit of a rabbit warren.
But I found quite a few people who had been
doing budgets through chat gpt, and a lot of them
said that there were some mathematical errors. Oh dear, so
and it does have that, It does have that disclosure,
you know, check you know, the evidence, check the facts.
(08:29):
You know, chat gpt does have errors, and it did.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Okay, I could expect logic errors, reasoning errors. You cannot
excuse mathematical errors when it is a computer, right, That
is the one thing that a computer should be able
to do without error.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
This is what I not for my person experiences. This
is what I was reading on other forums of other
people who had had to go and had frustrations with it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
And all right, I'll call my jets.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I will admit most people were overly impressed with the
quality of the budget that was created, but they were
happy to use it to help them get on their way.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
So the key limitations then are it is not going
to be particularly complex what it puts out and not
super tailored to you exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So there are a few nuances, and it doesn't understand
you know how you and your family use money and
how you like to use money, and you know where
your particular values and boundaries are. It's not going to
know those intimate details.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Okay. In that case, it sounds like you are a
little lukewarm on the idea.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I think it's a little bit pathetic, but I think
it's you know, for anyone that is overwhelmed and needs
to do a budget and it just keeps putting it
off and just procrastinating and burying out the sand. No,
I think it's a great tool for them. Okay, But
if you're someone who has a budget and is the
problem isn't actually doing the budget but sticking to a budget,
the chatty is not going to help you unless you
(09:57):
start being really particular and saying, all right, here is
my budget. Where am I going wrong? You know? And
that's when it can potentially look at your current insurance
and compare different policies, or it can look at you know,
solutions to help you cut down on groceries. So it
can I guess it can help you hone in on
particular areas if you're really clear about where you need
(10:17):
help within your budget. But it's not going to create
a finely tuned budget system. And I always say this
like a budget is really just a flaky piece of
paper unless you are intentionally sticking to it, and you
are reviewing it and on a regular basis, and you
are also cross referencing it on a regular basis, you know,
against your transactions. It is really just a piece of
(10:42):
a bit of an intention that you've put on paper.
You know, you need to do the hard work. I mean,
chat TPT is not going to make sticking to your
budget for you. You've got to do that. So you've got
to go to the supermarket knowing I've got a price
limit as to how much I can spend or you
know what, I can't afford to buy that this month
because I've already all to sern amount of money to
a clothing allowance in my budget. So you know that's
(11:03):
not chat GPT that's you. And this is the thing
that I find annoying about chat GPTs. If you are
really genuinely serious about doing a budget and doing it
properly and taking your financial will being seriously. Some of
the best insights, awareness wake up calls are hard moments,
whatever you want to call it, actually come from sitting
(11:26):
down for a couple of hours with your laptop open
in front of you and your bank accounts and looking
at you know, printing off your statements and sitting with
there with a calculator and a piece of paper or
in a journal or you know, or plugging into Excel spreadsheet.
That's it's Yes, it's borrowing, Yes it's dull, but that
is I think the most amazing experience to go through
because you're doing the proper deep working and chat GPT
(11:49):
can tell you, Michael, you spend way too much money
at JB hi FI. You know, you can look at
all how much money you've spent on your credit card statement,
for example, but sometimes you discovering that yourself has a
far greater impact and creates a bigger and better shift
for you to go. You know what, I remember that moment,
that aha moment where I was confronted with the reality
(12:12):
of spending too much money on electronic goods. So there
I am right now walking into JB High Fine, going
to make a quick turn around it. I don't feel
like the impact is going to be a strong one.
You use chat GBT, probably sounding a little bit too
philosophical for you know, a morning, but.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I feel like I've just received a sermon at the
Church of Canna. It's also passionate about budget. No, no,
don't apologize for that. That is fantastic. This is this
is good. That's what I was looking for. I still
want to pick apart a chat GBT budget, though. If
you're willing to die, let's do it. Well, let's take
a very quick break and then we'll come back and
you can just fire up that passion once again and
(12:50):
rip it to pieces. Canna. We are looking at chat
GP and whether it can fix your budget, whether it
can manage your budget, whether it can get you started,
and so far, yeah, yeah, yeah, it probably can get
you started. Is what you've said, that it can provide
(13:11):
a little bit of a framework, but really it is
down to you to do the work or you can
get it to look at particular problem areas and try
and figure out where you were going wrong and come
up with some hints and things. But nothing is quite
going to replace the time that you spend analyzing it
yourself and looking at it. Because you know your life.
A computer doesn't know your life exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Why couldn't I have just said that, like the way
is I hopped on for so long?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
No, that was good. I enjoyed it. I just I
was getting lost in that. Yeah, I've got a fascination
with budgeting, and so I.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Like budging and multiple bank accounts.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yes, yeah, it didn't sales any good at either of
those things. So a demo. Let's do this. You tell
me where it works where it doesn't work. So we're
putting into CHAT two pt A, let's go with a budget.
A monthly budget for a couple two kids doesn't matter.
I suppose whether they're married or not. I don't know
(14:08):
how old. How much detail do you need to give?
Do you need to give names?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Chat GPTs is interested whether you're married or not.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
This is Philip and Charlotte, and they have two kids
named Roberta and Steve. They've chosen kids names straight out
of the eighties, apparently, and anyway they earn what's a
good figure? Should we say, what do you reckon one
(14:35):
hundred and twenty one hundred and twenty, one hundred and
twenty each or.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
One hundred and twenty combined, Because these are important details.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Let's say one hundred and twenty. Let's say it's one
full time and one part time.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Okay, God, look at us just but these are the details.
I mean, particular couples manage money differently. You know, if
you've got two people working, they might split expenses. So
these are little things that you know, this is where
the nuances come in.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I guess okay, all right, So in that case, earning
one hundred and twenty thousand dollars combined, let's say ninety
thousand full time for one and thirty thousand part time
for the other. Okay? Happy paying to two hundred dollars rent? Ye? Okay?
Wanting to save for a holiday, they want to pay
it down some credit card debt?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
How much credit card are you?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Remember?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Were going to put information in.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Oh, what's a good figure? Five thousand dollars?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Is that a good yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
I think that's just done of the average about the
Australian Australian has.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Okay, yeah, I love that. We're just making this up
along the way, and it feels like I'm trying to
pass a test with you. Just make it up and
put in whatever we want, all right. We whacked that
into chat GPT. Okay, it has come back saying that
here is a suggested monthly budget rent two thousand and
two hundred dollars groceries one thousand dollars. That's not on.
(15:55):
That's that's not accurate. That's not okay. For a monthly
budget thousand dollars two hundred and fifty dollars a week,
four people.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Less than because it's four point two.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Five so let's twenty just over two hundred. Yeah, two
hundred dollars a week for grocery. Okay, Chat GPT, you
are dreaming next utility is and internet it reckons three
hundred and fifty bucks.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
No, that's that's way too low.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Okay, Transport fuel regi earl, et cetera six hundred bucks.
We're kind of asking chat GPT to do the impossible.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Letters.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
We didn't say how far the old mate has to
drive or or either of them, or where the kids
go to school and how they get there all that
kind of thing, and they.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Might have a pet, but they have to include pet
food and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
For their insurance. It says three hundred dollars. Kids activities
and school four hundred dollars. Again, this is plucked figures
out of nowhere because we didn't say whether it was
private school, whether there was extra.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Expenses, and we haven't added in there whether we live
in now it's you and I are the married couple
with our two children, see better, but it hasn't that
we haven't actually been shared though, whether we live regionally
or in a major city, because they're very two very
different living expenses as well.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
And entertainment and dining three hundred bucks. That seems pretty
that's that's I mean for a family that's on a budget,
that's a pretty good amount for allocated to entertaining and
dining out. Debt repayment five hundred dollars per month on
the credit card. I can I can see the look
on your Okay, you are groaning, you are cringing at that.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
That's a really unattractive for people to listen to it.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yes, but is that because this shows the priorities of
this budget that it is not a This is not
a budget that's built around trying to pay down toxic debt.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
And if you think about, you know, credit card debt,
the interest rate applied can be up to twenty two percent.
So if you've got five thousand dollars in credit card debt,
you know you're still having to spend a lot of
wasting a lot of money on interest and taking your
sweet ass time and actually paying that off. So that's
where I get a little bit concerned. And also, then
(18:08):
what is it doing to your ability to borrow money
further down the track if you're taking your time to
pay off credit card?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
It's got three hundred dollars for holiday savings. That's pretty good. Yeah,
putting that much in emergency fund savings, that's good. Three
hundred and fifty dollars. Chat CHPT says we didn't mention
saving for an emergency fund in the prompt. I mean
we gave it. I'm impressed, So that's good. That's a
good kind of fundamental. And then finally two one hundred
(18:36):
dollars miscellaneous, and then it says this total is around
six and a half thousand dollars a month, which fits
within your take home income. After tax. Okay, give it
a mark out of ten five five.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah. Look, I like that it's got us started and
doing a budget together. I like that it's really neat
and compartmentalized, so it's easy to understand and it's easy
then to also review. I love that it's addressed the
savings like holiday savings, and the debt repayment, even though
it's a questionable the debt repayment. And I like that
(19:12):
it forces you to see where you know, money could
go into different buckets potentially with your different spending categories. However,
and this may be us to blame. It's way too generic.
You know, real households have quirks. You know, I have
to pay for childcare. You might have different medical bills
than me. You know, birthdays? Has it factored in? We
(19:36):
you know we might have a wedding anniversary coming up?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Or I how this is now us? And how again?
I don't even remember who we said the All I
remember is Roberta and Steve, the two the two kids.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Anyway, carry on, you know what about sports, like and
some sports are really quite cost effective, Like you're a
tennis player, other than a tennis bracket and some balls
it's pretty economical.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
In dresser horses cost very expensive.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I think the utilities at you know, the internet and
gas electricity combined, that seemed a little bit low. You know,
I think most people spent about at least seventy dollars
a month on internet, so that estimate's very low, and
it hasn't considered anything for sort of I guess it
had the miscellaneous, But where's the consideration for spontaneous expenses,
(20:26):
you know, like you're having a kid's birthday and you
need to pay for that, or you're one that gets
missed on people's budgets. For all the time when I'm
taking people's budgets is kid's birthday presents, And that always
knocks people for six because I'll have They'll say, oh god,
we blew our budget. You know, my two of my
kids both had two sets of birthday parties, and before
I knew it, I was spending a fortune on you know,
(20:47):
the locals toy shop, buying all these gifts. So it
doesn't kind of factor with the reality of life. And
you know, I think there's the numbers, how realistic one
thousand dollars a month for groceries. Again, it boils down
to you your diet and does that include you know,
a takeaway maybe once a month and also no two
(21:07):
weeks are the same, like depending on activities, what's going on,
whether you've got people coming over, whether you're going out,
whether you have your own vegetable garden at home. Like
it's missing it, it's missing some fundamental details. But we
can still work with this, I'd say, So.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
It's missing the grit that it needs kind of thing
it's which is really this is a good lesson you
are You only get out what you put in to it.
So if you put in detail that you're going to
get detail out. So if you're going to do this,
put in enough detail that it's actually going to give
you something productive. Be specific on what you are currently spending, on,
what your lifestyle circumstances are. Leave the kids' names out
(21:49):
of it, Leave the kind of identifying details out of it.
Give them kind of pseudonyms, call them if you must,
Steve and ROBERTA. And you are going to get slightly
better results. On another occasion, if you'd be open to it,
I want to talk to you as well about chat
GPT developing a theme here but for investing, because I
(22:10):
would love that it has become a major, major thing.
And there was some data released recently by Charted Accountants
Australian New Zealand that said nearly fifty percent of Australian
investors are now using artificial intelligence for financial advice as
(22:31):
it relates to investing, which is so high.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
You know what. I got a phone call last week
asking if I could come and have a chat about
AI and financial planners and I was like, I couldn't
do it. But I was like, what is it all about?
And they're like, oh, we've got We've seen some new data.
Most financial planners are now using chat GPT to do
financial plans.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
It feels like there's another episode in Sure Okay, all right,
thank you for casting your eye over these budgets and
delivering your withering assessment of chat GPT's ability. Where do
we find you if we want more information?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Well, the first and best place to get a hold
of me is on Instagram at Sugar Mama TV, or
you can reach out directly to me on my personal
account Canna Campbell Official.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
And you can hear me every day with Sean Aylmer
on Fear and Greed Business News. You can use Thank
you for listening to how Do They Afford That? Remember
to follow on this podcast, and the best thing you
can do is tell somebody else or send them a
link to this episode and help spread the word about
how do they Afford That? Thank you for your company.
Join us again next week.
Welcome to How Do They Afford That, the podcast that
peaks into the financial lives of everyday Australians. I'm Uncale Thompson.
I'm an author and the co host of the podcast
Fear and Greed business News. As always, I'm with Cannon Campbell,
financial planner, founder of Sugar Mama TV, the financial literacy
platform which you'll find on YouTube, podcast books, Instagram, threads, TikTok, keynotes, speeches,
(00:22):
just say keynote speeches.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Just then, No, you said keynote. I heard it. Oh god,
I'm clear, Okay, all.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Right, I wish I hadn't drawn attention to it. Now. Hello, Canna,
good morning, how are you? I am going well? Today
we are talking about chat GPT, one of our favorite topics.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I have mentioned in previous episodes that I'm in a relationship,
a complicated relationship with chat GBT.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well, I want to explore the depths of that relationship
today because I've been seeing a lot of posts online.
Just the look on your face just then, thought you
thought I was going somewhere inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Didn't you. No, honestly, no, No, that's your mind that's
in the gutter, not mine.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Fair I'll take that a lot of talk lately about
chat gpt as you would.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Expect, Oh yeah, ai is viral.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's huge, but in particular how it can manage your budget.
A lot of people talking about on Instagram and TikTok
and everything that they're using chat gpt to manage their
household budget. So I'm curious does it work? How does
it work? Should we all be doing it? These are
the questions I'm going to ask you. Let's start with
(01:26):
the very basics, though, if we may, can it actually
help or is this just a gimmick?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
No, it can help, It really can, but it's I
would say, a tool to assist you in getting started
is not actually the complete solution, and it can definitely
help create awareness in your spending. But most importantly, it
can actually provide you a structure, which is really valuable.
If you're someone who knows you've got to do a budget,
(01:55):
keeps putting it off and feels completely overwhelmed. So this
will literally within seconds, create a structure for you to
get started.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Okay, what I'm going to do. I want to get
a bit more of an understanding of how it all works,
and then a little bit later on we're going to
do a little bit of a demo. And I've done
a demo too, and we're going to put it to
the tests.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
I tested it as well.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Oh great, we have a budget battle. We can make
them fight. What are the kinds of things then? Is
it just structural? Is it just going hey, I need
to kind of figure out how this is all going
to fit together. Is it just a structural thing? Is
it personalized kind of how much detail or is it
just the fact that you've got to put more detail
in in order to get something more detailed out.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So the prompts are key, and the more information you
can share with chat gibt, the better the content or
the solution that it's going to give you back. So
you know, you can get it to create like a
weekly budget or a monthly budget. It can also dump
everything into an Excel spreadsheet or even a Google sheets,
(02:57):
which makes it really easy to get started. It can
also help categorize your spending habits, so you can put
you know, all your clothing, so you might have like
sports clothing, kids clothing, uniforms. It can actually group them
all together so you can really hone in and see
where you're spending money. And it can also help you
(03:17):
consider or analyze which budgeting methods you know that are
quite popular right now that might be suited for you,
such as you know, the envelope system or the fifty
thirty twenty or the zero based budgeting rules, which we've
spoken about on previous episodes, and it can really help
you brainstorm different saving strategies and then project how you
might be tracking for a particular goal. But you've got
(03:38):
to put that goal obviously in there in the first place.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Okay, I'll get to those questions that you should be
asking the very first thing that you should be kind
of putting to chat GPT in a sec. But I'm
getting the vibe from you that it is probably more
for beginners rather than someone who's already got an So
you're you are an experienced budget Yeah, you are probably
(04:05):
going to be better than chat GPT at this.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Look. I had to go at putting our budget in
and you can even actually copy and paste your transactions,
like your bank transactions into chat GPT to help you
do your budget, which is quite a cool little hack.
But I put ours in and I was my I'm
going to sound horrible, but I think the results I
thought were pretty pathetic, and I thought they were fraught
with danger. And that's my honest opinion, because you really,
(04:31):
if you want to be good at your budget, you've
got to make sure you can also stick to it
to make it good. So then that's why I think
it becomes very one dimensional. But I still think chat
GPT is a great way to get started, particularly for beginners.
So you would use it as your first draft to
get started one hundred percent, But then you've got to
build with detail and be incredibly intentional and informed from
(04:57):
that point on, So it could potentially, I'm when I
sort of undo the meanness by saying that it's a
great tool to get started and create that awareness, and
it could potentially, once you build from there, make you
a bit of an expert budgeter.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Okay, all right, I think we're now kind of figuring
out the scope here. Really it is an introductory thing.
It is more of set up the bones and then
you pat it out yourself.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
We will in a minute do that full demo because
I'm so intrigued. I want to see where the problems are.
When you say that it's pathetic, I want to know
what assumptions it made that were wrong or what it
told you that it's just not feasible, that kind of thing.
So we'll get to that in a minute. All right,
if we are just coming into it as using it
for a starting point, Okay, where do we start? What's
(05:49):
the first thing that we should be asking it? Is
it putting our overall householding come in and saying help me?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yes? So, first thing, I think you's be real clearest
to what you want. You know, do you want a
weekly budget? You're a monthly budget, or do you want
to sort of map out the next three hundred and
sixty five days? And then obviously you've got to put
in as much information as possible, so you know income,
you know, all your regular expenses, all your irregular irregular expenses,
you know, even talking about when expenses are due. And
(06:18):
you could also put in some goals if you like.
I'd also be asking chat GPT when when you're doing
your budget, what am I missing here? And you can
ask questions like, you know, where can I save the
most amount of money or where could I redirect these
savings to help me with my goals? You know, try
(06:39):
and not be too vague because you're only going to
get vague responses back. But so the more information you
can put in the better. And also I mean with
chat GPT you can it gets to learn your voice,
so the more if you've been using it for a while,
it understands a little bit about yourself and what's important
to you, so it can if you've been using chat
GBT for a while, that can be too advantage improving
(07:01):
the output that you get.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
As you've been saying this, it does strike me that
there are some potential risks as well, security risks, and
there have been a lot of warnings out there about
using chat GPT, but almost trusting it too much. It
is not a financial planner. It's not someone who basically
is sworn to secrecy and will protect your confidentiality. That
(07:25):
you are putting information in there, that essentially you are
providing it to a public company, and that it is
not secure what you're putting in there, so you should.
You are fine to put in broad information like I
need a weekly budget, and this is how much I
spend on my mortgage, and this is how much money
I'm making a month, for instance, But you would never
(07:47):
put in tax file here's my.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Bank account detail exactly. Absolutely going to be really like
common sense, but also be smart because it can be hacked,
and you know, as you I know, it could definitely
become public, so you've obviously got to be smart about that.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
But de identify it essentially, take the identifying details out exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
And I did a bit of you know, I obviously
ran my own budget through it, and then I jumped
online and I went down a bit of a rabbit warren.
But I found quite a few people who had been
doing budgets through chat gpt, and a lot of them
said that there were some mathematical errors. Oh dear, so
and it does have that, It does have that disclosure,
you know, check you know, the evidence, check the facts.
(08:29):
You know, chat gpt does have errors, and it did.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Okay, I could expect logic errors, reasoning errors. You cannot
excuse mathematical errors when it is a computer, right, That
is the one thing that a computer should be able
to do without error.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
This is what I not for my person experiences. This
is what I was reading on other forums of other
people who had had to go and had frustrations with it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
And all right, I'll call my jets.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I will admit most people were overly impressed with the
quality of the budget that was created, but they were
happy to use it to help them get on their way.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
So the key limitations then are it is not going
to be particularly complex what it puts out and not
super tailored to you exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
So there are a few nuances, and it doesn't understand
you know how you and your family use money and
how you like to use money, and you know where
your particular values and boundaries are. It's not going to
know those intimate details.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Okay. In that case, it sounds like you are a
little lukewarm on the idea.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I think it's a little bit pathetic, but I think
it's you know, for anyone that is overwhelmed and needs
to do a budget and it just keeps putting it
off and just procrastinating and burying out the sand. No,
I think it's a great tool for them. Okay, But
if you're someone who has a budget and is the
problem isn't actually doing the budget but sticking to a budget,
the chatty is not going to help you unless you
(09:57):
start being really particular and saying, all right, here is
my budget. Where am I going wrong? You know? And
that's when it can potentially look at your current insurance
and compare different policies, or it can look at you know,
solutions to help you cut down on groceries. So it
can I guess it can help you hone in on
particular areas if you're really clear about where you need
(10:17):
help within your budget. But it's not going to create
a finely tuned budget system. And I always say this
like a budget is really just a flaky piece of
paper unless you are intentionally sticking to it, and you
are reviewing it and on a regular basis, and you
are also cross referencing it on a regular basis, you know,
against your transactions. It is really just a piece of
(10:42):
a bit of an intention that you've put on paper.
You know, you need to do the hard work. I mean,
chat TPT is not going to make sticking to your
budget for you. You've got to do that. So you've got
to go to the supermarket knowing I've got a price
limit as to how much I can spend or you
know what, I can't afford to buy that this month
because I've already all to sern amount of money to
a clothing allowance in my budget. So you know that's
(11:03):
not chat GPT that's you. And this is the thing
that I find annoying about chat GPTs. If you are
really genuinely serious about doing a budget and doing it
properly and taking your financial will being seriously. Some of
the best insights, awareness wake up calls are hard moments,
whatever you want to call it, actually come from sitting
(11:26):
down for a couple of hours with your laptop open
in front of you and your bank accounts and looking
at you know, printing off your statements and sitting with
there with a calculator and a piece of paper or
in a journal or you know, or plugging into Excel spreadsheet.
That's it's Yes, it's borrowing, Yes it's dull, but that
is I think the most amazing experience to go through
because you're doing the proper deep working and chat GPT
(11:49):
can tell you, Michael, you spend way too much money
at JB hi FI. You know, you can look at
all how much money you've spent on your credit card statement,
for example, but sometimes you discovering that yourself has a
far greater impact and creates a bigger and better shift
for you to go. You know what, I remember that moment,
that aha moment where I was confronted with the reality
(12:12):
of spending too much money on electronic goods. So there
I am right now walking into JB High Fine, going
to make a quick turn around it. I don't feel
like the impact is going to be a strong one.
You use chat GBT, probably sounding a little bit too
philosophical for you know, a morning, but.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I feel like I've just received a sermon at the
Church of Canna. It's also passionate about budget. No, no,
don't apologize for that. That is fantastic. This is this
is good. That's what I was looking for. I still
want to pick apart a chat GBT budget, though. If
you're willing to die, let's do it. Well, let's take
a very quick break and then we'll come back and
you can just fire up that passion once again and
(12:50):
rip it to pieces. Canna. We are looking at chat
GP and whether it can fix your budget, whether it
can manage your budget, whether it can get you started,
and so far, yeah, yeah, yeah, it probably can get
you started. Is what you've said, that it can provide
(13:11):
a little bit of a framework, but really it is
down to you to do the work or you can
get it to look at particular problem areas and try
and figure out where you were going wrong and come
up with some hints and things. But nothing is quite
going to replace the time that you spend analyzing it
yourself and looking at it. Because you know your life.
A computer doesn't know your life exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Why couldn't I have just said that, like the way
is I hopped on for so long?
Speaker 1 (13:36):
No, that was good. I enjoyed it. I just I
was getting lost in that. Yeah, I've got a fascination
with budgeting, and so I.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Like budging and multiple bank accounts.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yes, yeah, it didn't sales any good at either of
those things. So a demo. Let's do this. You tell
me where it works where it doesn't work. So we're
putting into CHAT two pt A, let's go with a budget.
A monthly budget for a couple two kids doesn't matter.
I suppose whether they're married or not. I don't know
(14:08):
how old. How much detail do you need to give?
Do you need to give names?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Chat GPTs is interested whether you're married or not.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
This is Philip and Charlotte, and they have two kids
named Roberta and Steve. They've chosen kids names straight out
of the eighties, apparently, and anyway they earn what's a
good figure? Should we say, what do you reckon one
(14:35):
hundred and twenty one hundred and twenty, one hundred and
twenty each or.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
One hundred and twenty combined, Because these are important details.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Let's say one hundred and twenty. Let's say it's one
full time and one part time.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Okay, God, look at us just but these are the details.
I mean, particular couples manage money differently. You know, if
you've got two people working, they might split expenses. So
these are little things that you know, this is where
the nuances come in.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I guess okay, all right, So in that case, earning
one hundred and twenty thousand dollars combined, let's say ninety
thousand full time for one and thirty thousand part time
for the other. Okay? Happy paying to two hundred dollars rent? Ye? Okay?
Wanting to save for a holiday, they want to pay
it down some credit card debt?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
How much credit card are you?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Remember?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Were going to put information in.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Oh, what's a good figure? Five thousand dollars?
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Is that a good yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
I think that's just done of the average about the
Australian Australian has.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Okay, yeah, I love that. We're just making this up
along the way, and it feels like I'm trying to
pass a test with you. Just make it up and
put in whatever we want, all right. We whacked that
into chat GPT. Okay, it has come back saying that
here is a suggested monthly budget rent two thousand and
two hundred dollars groceries one thousand dollars. That's not on.
(15:55):
That's that's not accurate. That's not okay. For a monthly
budget thousand dollars two hundred and fifty dollars a week,
four people.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Less than because it's four point two.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Five so let's twenty just over two hundred. Yeah, two
hundred dollars a week for grocery. Okay, Chat GPT, you
are dreaming next utility is and internet it reckons three
hundred and fifty bucks.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
No, that's that's way too low.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Okay, Transport fuel regi earl, et cetera six hundred bucks.
We're kind of asking chat GPT to do the impossible.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Letters.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
We didn't say how far the old mate has to
drive or or either of them, or where the kids
go to school and how they get there all that
kind of thing, and they.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Might have a pet, but they have to include pet
food and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
For their insurance. It says three hundred dollars. Kids activities
and school four hundred dollars. Again, this is plucked figures
out of nowhere because we didn't say whether it was
private school, whether there was extra.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Expenses, and we haven't added in there whether we live
in now it's you and I are the married couple
with our two children, see better, but it hasn't that
we haven't actually been shared though, whether we live regionally
or in a major city, because they're very two very
different living expenses as well.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
And entertainment and dining three hundred bucks. That seems pretty
that's that's I mean for a family that's on a budget,
that's a pretty good amount for allocated to entertaining and
dining out. Debt repayment five hundred dollars per month on
the credit card. I can I can see the look
on your Okay, you are groaning, you are cringing at that.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
That's a really unattractive for people to listen to it.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yes, but is that because this shows the priorities of
this budget that it is not a This is not
a budget that's built around trying to pay down toxic debt.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
And if you think about, you know, credit card debt,
the interest rate applied can be up to twenty two percent.
So if you've got five thousand dollars in credit card debt,
you know you're still having to spend a lot of
wasting a lot of money on interest and taking your
sweet ass time and actually paying that off. So that's
where I get a little bit concerned. And also, then
(18:08):
what is it doing to your ability to borrow money
further down the track if you're taking your time to
pay off credit card?
Speaker 1 (18:14):
It's got three hundred dollars for holiday savings. That's pretty good. Yeah,
putting that much in emergency fund savings, that's good. Three
hundred and fifty dollars. Chat CHPT says we didn't mention
saving for an emergency fund in the prompt. I mean
we gave it. I'm impressed, So that's good. That's a
good kind of fundamental. And then finally two one hundred
(18:36):
dollars miscellaneous, and then it says this total is around
six and a half thousand dollars a month, which fits
within your take home income. After tax. Okay, give it
a mark out of ten five five.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah. Look, I like that it's got us started and
doing a budget together. I like that it's really neat
and compartmentalized, so it's easy to understand and it's easy
then to also review. I love that it's addressed the
savings like holiday savings, and the debt repayment, even though
it's a questionable the debt repayment. And I like that
(19:12):
it forces you to see where you know, money could
go into different buckets potentially with your different spending categories. However,
and this may be us to blame. It's way too generic.
You know, real households have quirks. You know, I have
to pay for childcare. You might have different medical bills
than me. You know, birthdays? Has it factored in? We
(19:36):
you know we might have a wedding anniversary coming up?
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Or I how this is now us? And how again?
I don't even remember who we said the All I
remember is Roberta and Steve, the two the two kids.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Anyway, carry on, you know what about sports, like and
some sports are really quite cost effective, Like you're a
tennis player, other than a tennis bracket and some balls
it's pretty economical.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
In dresser horses cost very expensive.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I think the utilities at you know, the internet and
gas electricity combined, that seemed a little bit low. You know,
I think most people spent about at least seventy dollars
a month on internet, so that estimate's very low, and
it hasn't considered anything for sort of I guess it
had the miscellaneous, But where's the consideration for spontaneous expenses,
(20:26):
you know, like you're having a kid's birthday and you
need to pay for that, or you're one that gets
missed on people's budgets. For all the time when I'm
taking people's budgets is kid's birthday presents, And that always
knocks people for six because I'll have They'll say, oh god,
we blew our budget. You know, my two of my
kids both had two sets of birthday parties, and before
I knew it, I was spending a fortune on you know,
(20:47):
the locals toy shop, buying all these gifts. So it
doesn't kind of factor with the reality of life. And
you know, I think there's the numbers, how realistic one
thousand dollars a month for groceries. Again, it boils down
to you your diet and does that include you know,
a takeaway maybe once a month and also no two
(21:07):
weeks are the same, like depending on activities, what's going on,
whether you've got people coming over, whether you're going out,
whether you have your own vegetable garden at home. Like
it's missing it, it's missing some fundamental details. But we
can still work with this, I'd say, So.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
It's missing the grit that it needs kind of thing
it's which is really this is a good lesson you
are You only get out what you put in to it.
So if you put in detail that you're going to
get detail out. So if you're going to do this,
put in enough detail that it's actually going to give
you something productive. Be specific on what you are currently spending, on,
what your lifestyle circumstances are. Leave the kids' names out
(21:49):
of it, Leave the kind of identifying details out of it.
Give them kind of pseudonyms, call them if you must,
Steve and ROBERTA. And you are going to get slightly
better results. On another occasion, if you'd be open to it,
I want to talk to you as well about chat
GPT developing a theme here but for investing, because I
(22:10):
would love that it has become a major, major thing.
And there was some data released recently by Charted Accountants
Australian New Zealand that said nearly fifty percent of Australian
investors are now using artificial intelligence for financial advice as
(22:31):
it relates to investing, which is so high.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
You know what. I got a phone call last week
asking if I could come and have a chat about
AI and financial planners and I was like, I couldn't
do it. But I was like, what is it all about?
And they're like, oh, we've got We've seen some new data.
Most financial planners are now using chat GPT to do
financial plans.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
It feels like there's another episode in Sure Okay, all right,
thank you for casting your eye over these budgets and
delivering your withering assessment of chat GPT's ability. Where do
we find you if we want more information?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Well, the first and best place to get a hold
of me is on Instagram at Sugar Mama TV, or
you can reach out directly to me on my personal
account Canna Campbell Official.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
And you can hear me every day with Sean Aylmer
on Fear and Greed Business News. You can use Thank
you for listening to how Do They Afford That? Remember
to follow on this podcast, and the best thing you
can do is tell somebody else or send them a
link to this episode and help spread the word about
how do they Afford That? Thank you for your company.
Join us again next week.
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