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August 12, 2025 23 mins

Money is such an important issue in a relationship, and communication is key. But what are some of the financial red flags to watch out for? Join Canna Campbell - a financial planner for 20 years - and Fear & Greed's Michael Thompson as they look at the financial red flags in a relationship, from a minor mismatch in attitudes to money, through to the very serious problems of financial abuse and coercive control.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to How Do They Afford That? The podcast that
peaks into the financial lives of everyday Australian. So I'm
Miuchaele Thompson. I'm an author and the co host of
the podcast Fear and Greed business news. As always, I'm
with Canna Campbell, financial planner and founder of Sugar Mama TV,
financial literacy platform that is on YouTube and TikTok and
Instagram and pretty much everywhere. Hello Canna, good morning. Now

(00:23):
today is a serious topic. We are talking today about
financial red flags in relationships and these can range hugely right.
They can go from relatively minor things like a mismatch
I suppose in your attitudes towards spending and saving, right
through to the really serious red flags, the risk factors

(00:46):
for financial abuse and coercive control. So let's work our
way through them. Shall we work through the financial red
flags in relationships? And we'll start at the lighter end, Okay,
I think if that's all right?

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yes, take it gently.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
What is the smallest financial red flag that would make
you stop and think? Is it someone like not splitting
a bill even lea.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yes, I'd say that it's annoying things that can really
irritate you and over time eat away. But so as
you said, like someone who refusing to split a bill,
but also with no reason, like no explanation.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
It's different if someone if you know that they're having
financial trouble or something like fine, yep, no problems.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
That's fair enough. Or people who borrow money really early
in the relationship. Or someone who jokes to the point
where they almost feel proud about how they're so bad
with money and never actually does anything about it.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
That's an interesting one.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
There's a lot of people who like to make a
bit of a joke of themselves, like they almost but
they're almost proud, but obviously behind the pride is shame.
But you know they're the people that laugh, I'm you know,
great at spending money there to their own detriment.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
That's an interesting one that that is actually a red
flag for you.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
It's not it's a concern. It's something that needs to
be at the right and appropriate and sensitive time, needs
to be addressed because you don't want to live your
life like that.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
So you're saying it's an opportunity for.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Education definitely, and empowerment too.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Okay, all right, go on, go on.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
And then I'd say someone who is constantly in debt
that things like that's really normal. And I'm not talking
about home loans. I'm talking about someone who's drowning in
multiple credit card debts and by now pay later. You know,
they think that that's normal and it's not actually an option.
They don't know anything better and they don't want to

(02:44):
know anything better.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Okay, So these are really kind of money mindset issues.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Very much about the person's attitude yea, and how they
feel that that's acceptable. And there's complete like lacking of
any sort of accountability or responsibility.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
In that case. Then if this is about kind of
attitudes to money at this point in time, is it
a red flag? If someone has no interest in budgeting,
no interest in long term financial goals, is it that
would be more than annoying for you? That would be like, okay,
this is financial incompatibility.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
It would be a worry. Okay. So to me, that
would indicate a lack of direction, motivation, and a desire
for a better life around money and financial management, especially
if you're someone who actually does really crave you know,
security and savings and investing. And whilst it may not

(03:42):
necessarily be toxic, as such, there is a compatibility issue
here that needs to be dealt with. And this is
why I think timing is everything, because sometimes people aren't
yet at that point. You know, they're not where you're
up to in your financial journey or your level of
education around money. So that's why you you do need
to work together and communication is key. But you know,

(04:03):
these are the times where the discussion of those financial
goals like buying home together, or starting a family, or
even thinking about retirement can start to be a concern.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Okay, what about then if you are in the early
stages of a relationship and you establish that okay, one
person in the duo is a spender and the other
person is a saver. Now, one of our earliest episodes
that we did on this podcast was about that. Can
it work with communication or is it just going to
build tension into a relationship that might never actually be

(04:36):
fully resolved.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
You know what, I think we're missing some important people
in this category. It's not just save as versus spenders.
It could be saviors versus spenders versus investors. Oh yeah,
other two people who like every single spare scent they get,
they go and invest it.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, I know, people like that.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Plenty of people like that.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Really yeah, And as a result, they don't spend anything because.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Well, the part never gets a chance to actually enjoy
the money and spend it on a holiday or something
because they've already gone and invested it.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
And so they're so focused on some day in the
future when there is this kind of financial freedom potentially
somewhere in the future, that they're not actually going to
enjoy the process to get.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
To it exactly. And this is why you know, communication
and having boundaries and saying okay, all right, for every
for example, every thousand dollars, you know, we invest, we're
going to put a side five hundred, for example, for
a holiday. So having that respectful communication is essential, and
sharing financial goals so that you are rolling in the
same direction, and you know, you have some form of

(05:38):
autonomy where you know, as I have shared on previous episodes,
you know, Tom and I h get our same amount
of sanity money where he can go in the driving
range and blow his you know, call it allowance for
the month, and I can go and blow my allowance
for the month on for example, in a new pair
of shoots. It's you have that independence as well. But
you can also you are united on the big picture stuff.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Okay, at what point, though, in a relationship should you
be having those money conversations? Because you've talked a few
times now, you've referenced the importance of this communication, this
clear communication about money. How early in a relationship should
you be having these money conversations? And does that risk
making things feel perhaps a bit uncomfortable, uncomfortable and transactional? Right, Like,

(06:24):
if you're on your second date and you're already talking
about kind of okay, what's your long term financial goals?
Is that going to be a red flag in itself
that you've kind of busted out all the big kind
of money questions and all I want to know is
kind of what movies have you seen lately?

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Look. I remember, before even going on a date with someone,
this is before I met Tom. I got asked online
these questions really and I and he said, like, I
really hope I'm not offending you, but these are really
important to me, and like I need to know just
to be clear and upfront. And I had no problem
answering that. I actually really respect that he for him,

(07:01):
these are his non negotiables And this was something he
really valued. So obviously I wouldn't personally recommend that, and
I wouldn't personally do that myself. You've got to let
nature take its course and get to know each other.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
And you know, they probably found the right person though
with you. In terms of if you're going to ask
anyone about long term financial goals, talking to Kinder Campbell
is probably the well the comment.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
The relationship never stopped right then, and then we didn't
actually make it to the date up because I actually
but because I met Tom. But you know, and that's
another classic example. When I met Tom, he had this
really like relaxed attitude to mortgage. He had been told
that you never paid for a mortgage, No one ever
does it. It's not possible. And you know, he was

(07:43):
spending a lot of money. And when I actually showed
and I was like, who the hell told you that?
That's ridiculous. Of course you can pay for home. And
I just showed a few few simple things like extra
mortgage repayments, increasing it out, rounding it up. The look
on his face he was like, oh my goodness, and
it instantly changed his attitude towards being living a mortgage
free life. And I'd say at times, he's probably more

(08:05):
more motivated than I am to pay off our home loan.
So you know, it's you've got to really use your
intuition and that emotional IQ to go. All right, I
feel like we're getting into this stage where we can
have this conversation, but let's do it in a really
safe way. You don't need to tackle your whole entire finances,
but it can start with something really simple like how
do you budget your money? Or you know, I'm thinking

(08:27):
we're thinking of going on holiday, Like how would you
see us forwarding this so that we can both have
a great time, Like come from a positive place and
you know, be vulnerable, lean into that. And you know,
at the end of the day, if this is not
right coming from someone who's been dworsd twice, don't like
you listen to your guard. If you're like, you know what,

(08:47):
this is not right, don't throw the baby out with
the bath water. But you need to sort of think, Okay,
do I continue on seeing where this will go in
the conversation we have and see if we can come
on to the same page, or is this actually not
the right relationship for me at this point of my life?
And what's important to me.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Okay, that's good advice. We're starting to get a bit
more serious now with a few of these red flags.
What are the warning signs when someone just isn't transparent
right about their money. Perhaps they're vague about income that
one I can kind of understand, vague about debt, would

(09:23):
bending habits. Yeah, when they're just being vague about it
all and not transparent at all about their attitudes to
money as well.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, No, these are definitely warning signs. And like a
classic one that is the most I think the most
frightening one is gambling because you can't it's not like
alcohol drugs. You can smell it, you can see it
in someone's behavior. Gambling can go on for a long
time without people having any idea. It's very it's an
easy addiction to hide. It's not until it gets to
crisis point that it's you know, it becomes apparent and obvious.

(09:54):
But you know, I'd say the warning signs like hiding
shame insecurity and controlling shoes as well. And as I said,
full transparency doesn't have to happen open night overnight, but
the openness has to definitely build up consistently over time.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
What about hiding purchases? Is that ever okay in a
relationship or is it a sign of deeper money issues.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
I'm a big no no on this, okay, And I
know and it's a bit of a polarizing opinion, but
you know, there's a lot of jokes going on and
like being on social media where you know, women hiding
their purchases in the boot of the car or you know,
in funny places. I don't think that's cool at all.
I don't think it's funny, like you should be able
to go, look, darling, look I bought for myself. Isn't

(10:40):
this dress beautiful? Like your partnership, look back and go Okay,
I know that they've bought that within the boundaries of
our budget, and I'm happy to see them spending money
in a responsible way, in a balanced way, and it's
not going to jeopardize our financial well being in there
is equality and respect to the flow of money, and
that's that's where I stand.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, it's kind of horrifying to think about. I can't
know that that's all done very in a light way online,
those jokes about it all, But I mean, in many cases,
there would be situations where people feel and the necessity
to hide their purchases because they're worried about how the
other person's going to react things that it's like, Oh,
it is a slippery slope.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
It feels like it isn't at the end of the day,
No one feels good hiding stuff from other people. It
doesn't sit nicely inside one's body.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
No, Okay, we're going to take a very quick break.
We're going to come back then. We've got a series
of these are really quite serious red flags and serious issues,
but I do want to go through them. Will take
a break, be back in a moment. Can we are
talking about financial red flags in relationships? What to watch

(11:49):
out for, what's relatively minor and what is more serious.
We're definitely at the more serious end of the scale. Now,
what about if one partner makes all the money to
decisions and just expects the other person to go along
with it. That is, that's got to be a red.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Flag, Absolutely, a massive red flag. So particularly if there's
no discussion or no consent. No, and even if one
person might be making the majority of the family income
and they're handling all the ad men. You know, both
partners at the end of the day should have equal
say in those big decisions. And you know, those decisions

(12:27):
have consequences, they have risks, They may come with sacrifices
as well. For example, we're going to invest in this,
so therefore we can't spend money on that. It's this
is where some big problems a lie. And this is
why that awareness of financial abuse is so important. And
often with this sense of financial control and restriction, there's
often a gateway to other forms of manipulation and relationships.

(12:51):
Doesn't just stop there.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Well, okay, financial manipulation, let's talk about that. What are
some signs that one person might be financially manipulating the
other even in kind of subtle ways. Is it making
sure that all the builds are in their name and
not letting the other person see anything that's coming in
kind of or or is that more extreme?

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Well, now I'd say it's almost more psychological.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
You know, it's like guilt.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Tripping someone into not spending money. Oh, you don't really
need that, you've got you know, you've got a nice
dress already at home, you can just wear that. Again,
like making them feel bad for actually spending money and
drawing money, you know, monitoring or criticizing every single transaction
like why did you spend that? Why did you buy

(13:35):
that brand and not that brand? You know, getting angry
at them and you know, psychologically punishing them through stone
walling and then delaying or avoiding joint decisions. And I've
seen this, I've seen this closely in a certain situation,
and it was quite sickening to watch where they're almost

(13:56):
like dangled carrot and said, oh, yes, we will do
the joint account, we will make it. You know, we'll explain,
but never actually happened, and that person hang hung hope
on that moment that day would one day come, and
it never did, and in the meantime, they were, you know,
ripping them off.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
That's frightening.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
So it's heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, that's really scary debt. Okay, And I'm sorry, I
realized this feels like I'm just going through a shopping
list of red flags now, But I mean it makes
you realize how broad the spectrum of financial red flags,
and from the lighter kind of oh yeah, we're probably
not compatible right through to these things that are well,

(14:37):
it's actually criminal when we get down to the coercive
control and some of that abuse.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
And this list is really I think for awareness because
so often it's socially when you know the rose tinted
glasses on, you don't realize what's going on until you
know it ends, or you get that perspective, and sometimes
it's you know, quite there's a lot more on the line,
children emotions, it's mortgages, things like that.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Now, debt has come up a couple of times so
far in this conversation. If someone comes into a relationship
with a lot of debt, right, at what point does
that cross from just being the reality of this is
kind of the way they are, and it's some baggage
that they are carrying, perhaps a big personal loan or
something that they still haven't paid off. At what point
does that become a red flag? Is it when they

(15:25):
have no intention of paying it off, or they want
to share that debt with the other person, or the
debt is kind of part of their money mentality.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Or even their money block. So it's more about how
they actually managed the debt, you know, are they hiding it?
Are they only making the minimum repayments when they could
actually be paying that debt off. The lack of accountability
to just pointing their finger at others blaming others. You know,
you know my ex partner ruined my credit score and

(15:54):
got me into this loan and tricked me. And you
know my family member did this or that to me,
like just passing the buck or you know, expecting you
to be fine with it and just either maybe fix
it up for them or actually just like them ignore
the actual problem at hand and the long term consequences
of debt. And you know, debt, as you said, is unavoidable. Unavoidable,

(16:16):
it's a natural part of life. But you seeing someone
be open and honest and transparent and take responsibility for
the situation they're in and us as an opportunity to
learn and change history so that they never repeat history
is really important and really admirable. And I think that's

(16:36):
the sign that you want to look for to know, Okay,
what this potential partner of mine has debt, but we'll
work together and getting out of this. And you know,
whether they paid off themselves or you get a game
plan in place, but you can come back from this
quite easily if you do it in the right way
and manage it mindfully.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, and communication, once again is key everything. It's just
it feels like every one of these things. It does
come back to communication and trust. Yeah, okay on that right.
So say you and your partner have it pretty well
set up together, that's not the problem here. What about
if your partner is financially supporting a friend or a

(17:21):
family member and that is starting to affect your own goals.
And I know that sounds like it's kind of oh,
that would never happen.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
It does happens a lot. It happens a lot. I
actually did a recent podcast on Sugar Mama's Fireplay about,
you know, supporting a mother who was financially vulnerable. And
it's also a part of certain cultures where you take
care of your elderly parents. That is what is done
and that is what is expected. So it's not actually
necessarily toxic, but it can become a problem if it's

(17:51):
not addressed quickly with boundaries put in place. And you
know when I see it being a red flag is
when it's interfering with your goals. For example, you no
longer can go and buy a home because you've got
to bail out family members' debts, or you are changing
the plan without actually discussing what you previously agreed on,
or you start putting pressure on all the person's being

(18:14):
pressure on you or creating resentment in your relationship, that's
when it's an issue, and that's when you need to
almost go and see a financial counselor. And you know,
just because you're a partner, you're also not necessarily a
financial safety net for everybody else in your life.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Okay, we're nearly out of time, but the big one
is probably still to come here. It is about financial
control and coercive control within a relationship. What are the
signs that this is happening. We've touched on a few
of them. But how does it differ from just having

(18:48):
different approaches to money and different kind of attitudes to money?
At what point is it crossing over into something that
is coercive control? Coercive control and is so so dangerous.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah, so, you know, forcing you to hand over income,
to have to justify every single expense, no matter how
big or how small, you know, having to ask permission
if you can spend it something, especially on just the
normal basic essentials of life, you know, denying access to
accounts and cards, you know, and sabotaging your ability to

(19:22):
actually work or earn a living or even start up
a side hustle and then making really hurtful financial threats
like you know you'd have nothing without me. You know
that isn't just financial abuse, that's a form of course
of controllers for us. I'm concerned.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
So what do you do if if someone is hearing
you say this and go, I've heard that coming out
of the mouth of my partner, Like, where do you
go from there? How do you start to protect yourself
if you if you might kind of recognize this and
start to feel like you are being controlled or coerced.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
The first place I would start is open up a
separate bank account, but obviously only in your name, and
start building up you know, some personal funds as much
as you can, and talk to someone close that can
help keep you safe and is aware of what's going on.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
So this is a friend or a family member, a
trusted friend, trusted family member. And professional assistance, Absolutely professional assistance.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
But coming back to the practical side, obviously the bank
account and making sure that you know you have your
login details, you don't share it with anyone else, don't
write it down, you know it's completely protected, and then
go and have regular check ins just because you don't
have to throw the baby out with the bathballer necessarily.
But you know, I feel like a lot of people
actually act in a financially abusive way without even realizing it.

(20:50):
It's not until you sit down with a marriage counselor
or a financial counselor that they actually say, you know what,
that's not acceptable. You can't say that that's inappropriate, that's sensitive,
that's hurtful, and they can start to have really healthy,
constructive conversations around what they want. I do believe couples
can heal from here and get back on track. But

(21:11):
it's this lack of awareness, but also it's a lack
of actually understanding how to do it in the right way,
in a right way where you you know, dream works,
the teamwork, where you support each other, you know you've
got your eye focus on the prize. When one part
is having a bad day, the other person lifts them
up and you help each other keep going. And when
it does come to those times where you can splurge

(21:32):
or have a treat or reward or celebrate those little
successes along the way, it makes you closer, it makes
you stronger, and a counselor can really work amazing magic
and helping people get on the same page and actually
be incredibly powerful together. But you know, I really feel
a lot of people just don't actually realize what they're
doing and saying. And it doesn't excuse it at all.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
No, no, no, no. And I keep thinking back to
what you said about communication, the fact that communication within
a relationship is so important when it comes to money,
and that a financial counselor can actually help you establish
almost the ground rules and the framework for good communication
around money. But then there are some circumstances where communication

(22:15):
is just not going to help, and it becomes a
matter of personal safety. And that is when we're in control.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
And that's far more serious, and that's when you do
need to get professional help, a lawyer report it. That's
a whole other level. And you know, money and love
aren't separate and they shape your future together. So you
want to get it right and in but never underestimate
your own intuition.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Okay, big episode, serious one heavy, Yeah it really was,
wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Well?

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Next episode will lighten things up a bit, all right,
A lofty promise? Right, Okay, where do we find you?
If we want more information?

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Please? For anyone that has ever worried about financial abuse
or coercion, and of course you know to violence. Please
reach out to me directly at Sugar Mama TV and
I'll help you as best I can.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, that's actually really good of you to offer that assistance.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
I've seen it so many times, and I've seen it
in very close intimate situations at various times of my life.
So I'm something so I'm really passionate about.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
All right, And look, you can hear me every day
with Sean Aylmer on Fearing great business news you can use.
Thank you for listening to how do they afford?

Speaker 2 (23:24):
That?

Speaker 1 (23:25):
A serious episode today? As we mentioned, to remember to
hit follow on the podcast and tell somebody else about
the podcast. And if you think that there is someone
that might benefit from hearing this particular episode, then you
can send them this, send them the link and they
may be able to get something valuable out of it.
Thank you very much for your company. Join us again
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