Five ways to end money anxiety

If money stresses you out, today’s episode is for you. There might be an easy way to take the anxiety out of money, just by automating a lot of things - the fewer decisions you have to make, the less money stress you carry. Join Canna Campbell - a financial planner for 20 years - and Fear & Greed's Michael Thompson as they look at set and forget finances: five ways to remove anxiety from money decisions.

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The information in this podcast is general in nature and does not take into account your personal circumstances, financial needs or objectives. Before acting on any information, you should consider the appropriateness of it and the relevant product having regard to your objectives, financial situation and needs. In particular, you should seek independent financial advice and read the relevant Product Disclosure Statement or other offer document prior to acquiring any financial product.

​Canna Campbell is an Authorised Representative and Financial Adviser of Links Licensee Services Pty Ltd AFSL No. 700012 ABN 97 678 975 589.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to How Do They Afford That, the podcast that
peaks into the financial lives of everyday Australians. I'm Michael Thompson.
I'm an author and the co host of the business
news podcast Fear and Greed. As always, I'm with Canna Campbell,
financial planner and founder of Sugar Mama TV, the financial
literacy platform covering YouTube, podcasts, books, Instagram, threads, TikTok and more. Hello, Canna,

(00:23):
good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
How are you?

Speaker 1 (00:25):
I am very well, thank you, and today's episode is
going to be well. I hope I've got a theory
about today's episode and I'm hoping that it is in
fact true, because this episode today is for you. If
money stresses you out, so I want to find out

(00:46):
if there is an easy way to take the anxiety
out of money just bye automating a lot of things.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Right.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
My theory is that the fewer decisions that you have
to make because you've automated them, right, the less stress
you have to carry. Therefore, the less money anxiety you have. Right. Yes,
this is set and forget finances Okay, basically, and because

(01:15):
I love a list, I'm going to ask you. I mean,
this is all assuming that this theory is true. I
want five ways to remove anxiety from money decisions. Okay, okay,
you're all right with that. You're all right, you can
give it a crack. Okay, First, why do money decisions?

(01:37):
And so now I'm kind of build the case for
my theory. Why do money decisions cause so much anxiety
for people? Is it just because I'm speaking from experience here,
I'm worried I'm going to do the wrong thing, and
then I'm locked in.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yes, And you know, money decisions are tied to emotions,
you know, the fear of getting it wrong, the guilt
if you do get it wrong, and then the self
worth damage if you completely stuff it up. And we're
often juggling this like short term comfort and gratification against
these like long term goals and responsibilities. You know, do
we save our money, do we spend our money? Do

(02:15):
we invest or do we pay off debt? You know,
every small choice feels like it's got really big long
term consequence and it can be really overwhelming, which is
why I think a lot of people get stuck and
just do nothing. In an hour, the year passes us by.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
So you are just you are describing me. Yeah, yeah,
for quite some time. Not anymore, I'm very pleased to say.
But for me, the anxiety over having to make these
decisions and to try and the pressure that I was
putting on myself to make the right decision led to

(02:51):
no decision at all.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
I had to buy some new glasses for our kitchen
because we managed to smash all the other glasses. Go on,
stress and anxiety I created for myself, and I was
so overwhelmed because I couldn't work out what glasses to
order off Amazon, and so I just didn't And so
for months and months we were surviving off like two

(03:15):
or three glasses, to the point in my top like,
please just order some glasses, but I was like, I can't,
because I can't. I'm so overwhelmed with choices doses, and
I was like, what if it's too big? What if
they're really like poorly made and they smash release and
then we're going to buy the whole new set again.
And so I really relate to it. I understand what
you exactly that mindset, I can proudly admit I showed Tom.

(03:39):
We sat down together and we went through the glasses
and we picked and arright the next day and I'm like,
why did I take this process so torturous for myself?

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Isn't it funny the things that we get ourselves kind
of caught up on? Yeah? Yeah, when afterwards we've kind
of embraced Sean and I have embraced this kind of
policy now of you know, just make a decision. If
it ends up being the wrong one, okay, we can
we can find another way forward after that. But the
most important thing is just to keep moving, just to

(04:11):
do something. And it's actually quite it's quite liberating thought
I made that.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
I was so proud of myself when I finally made
that order. Like my day just was. I was on
a high all day.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
That's an easy high.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
I know, this is a thirty six. There were six
glasses for thirty six dollars, like, you know, so it
seems like so insignificant, but it dominated my life for
two months. Every day I'm like, I need to all
the glasses.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
And it's funny, And it's funny that during that same time,
right that two months, where you were just in a
muddle over this, you would have made plenty of other decisions,
bigger decisions, decision financial decisions decisions that would kind of
result in kind of thousands of dollars difference in the future,
and you would have made those without hesitation. Yet you
got caught up on this one thing I'll find fascinating

(05:05):
and no judgment because I'm exactly the same.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, so I'm quite happy. Imagine if I had automated
that glass.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Oh God, it would have been done in an instant.
At the moment you drop below, kind of three glasses
in your cupboard, the cupbod automatically orders a new one.
It's the way of the future.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
All right, automation.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Shall we go with our lists?

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Five ways to remove anxiety from money decisions?

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Give us number one, right, Automating your bills and essential
so setting up direct debits you know, for your rent
or your mortgage, of payments, your utilities, insurances, childcare, gym,
mobile phone, you know, and have it all come out
of a savings account, not off a credit card, but
one central destination. So it's easy to just check that

(05:50):
one account efficiently. And this will then obviously prevent late fees.
It saves the mental load and all that energy that
we need to remember, gosh, God, remember to pay that bill,
or pay that subscription or transfer that money.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
You know.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
It means that the essentials are always covered first. And
I always say front load your direct debits in sync
with your payday. So if you, for example, get the
paid on you get paid weekly or fortnight or monthly,
monthly monthly, me too, what day of the month at.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
The end of the month, so it's typically the thirtieth,
let's say.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
So in your situation, I would say to you, try
and front load your direct debits so that all your
direct debits would come out around say the first and second,
so you clear those priorities first so that you don't
get tempted to go and spend all that money and
forget about all these upcoming direct debits. So it kind
of gets all the responsibilities done and dusted and you
can spend the rest. Why are you looking at me like.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
I'm going to ask you a really silly question? Yeah,
can you change the date that a direct debit comes
out of your account? Because I thought it was just
set by the provider and you had no say in it.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
That's actually a really good question.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
I knew it. I should have been more confident.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
It varies some like for example, the banks, you definitely
can so if your mortgage a payment comes out on
the twenty sixth, you'd like to make it the twenty eighth.
You just give them a call. It will obviously change
the because obviously it's a slightly longer month for the
first cycle. But yes, you can most definitely do that.
Some things are a little bit out of your control.
But if you can, the big ones in particular, if

(07:20):
you can front load them, and all the ones that
you can, even the little ones, try as much as
you can, because it just clears it gets as much
off your plate, you know, financially, so that you can
then enjoy the rest. So yes, always ask if you can.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Okay, I'm going to put that on my to do list,
because that's a great thing, because there is nothing worse
than getting paid on the thirtieth and a bill lobbing
on or a direct debit rather coming out of your
account on the twenty seventh, exactly because it's usually it's
not a huge amount there by.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Then the one thing that I have to say is
do it one or two days after, because if you
get paid on you say, your twenty eighth pay day
is a weekend or a long way, can it may
not necessarily hit your account there may be a delay.
So that's why I always say do it a couple
of days later, just to cover yourself.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, okay, all right, good one. That's number one. What's
number two?

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Pay yourself first automatically. So the biggest stress real is
knowing that your savings are handled before you can even
touch your spending money. So you know, set up all
the automatic transfers for your emergency money. If you're trying
to stockpile your emergency money, or trying to build up
a financial float account that I talk about so much,
or you are trying to you know, save up for

(08:30):
a particular purchase such as you know, first home, or
you're investing, so make sure that you are prioritizing not
just your expenses first, but also your financial goals.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Okay, scenario go involving me. I was going to make
I was going to make it anonymous, but I'm like, no,
it's actually I have this friend, yes mill Lot, and
he uh an Okay, So say I get paid monthly,
but then I have all of these automated payments that

(09:06):
go to kind of accounts, financial goals and things, and
I do all of that weekly. Is that mad? Now
I'm saying this it feels like madness because I'm operating
on two separate cycles, a monthly pay cycle and then
an internal kind of split up where I make sure
that it, like the account that we use for groceries,

(09:29):
has got money in it every week. And the reason
for doing that is that there is kind of wariness
over transferring it all for the month in one go,
because at least you've got a cap then on how
much you'll spend it. I know you need to be
kind of monitoring watch're spending, but if there's if the
money's going to run out, that you're not going to
spend anymore in that anyway.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
So a couple of things you're actually taking away my
third tip, which is having separate accounts for spending and bills.
But the problem with doing it weekly is they're not
in alignment. So if you're getting paid monthly, it's not
like there's four perfect weeks in a month, there's four
point to five.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
I think it's a bit messy. Maybe they should boy
that up, get the calendar people under that.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
So you're making a bit of a rod for your
own back in doing this, So I would recommend you
do one like you have your accounts you know, for
the grocery money for example, and say children spending money
whatever it may be, but I would be doing one
bulk transfer and then ration that money out throughout the month.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah. That does require a discipline though then, because say
you've transferred all of your grocery money for the entire
month into your grocery account. You don't want to blow
at all on apples and things in week one.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
But that's the apple organic apples. But that's why you
need to have a buffery. For example, say you transferred
two thousand dollars at the beginning of the month to
a grocery account. You now know that you have a
budget of approximately call it four hundred and twenty dollars
per week to spend on groceries. And you have a
safe buffer within that because you actually probably spend maybe

(11:06):
closer to four hundred flat per month, So you have
buffers there to protect you. But you know that you've
got almost like you're giving yourself an allowance, like a
food allowance from that account.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
All right, And so we have worked the third tip
into that one of having their separate accounts.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, and this is what I mean, Look that you
like to have how many accounts are we up to,
like twenty one counts?

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Okay, No, I used to have twenty six accounts. Twenty
six and I have got far fewer than that. I
reckon it would be probably half that, like you have.
You have had that effect on me.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
You have thirteen accounts now probably I feel sick to
my stomach.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
No, no, that's a good thing.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yes, you're slimming down, thank you.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Thank you. Yes, no, but I mean and I could
see that they were unnecessary, and it was and it
did create confusion within my accounts. But there is still
a need to have some separate accounts for say groceries
and holiday savings, and then an offset account for emergency

(12:09):
money and things like that. So perhaps I might actually
have fewer than thirteen. It might even been well, I hope.
So see, the judgments is thick in the studio today.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Look, I think five is a good amount. But obviously
each account should have a purpose. So you know, you
have your everyday spending account, which is short term expenses.
You have your financial float which for the quarterly, bi annual,
annual expenses, and then you have a financial goal account,
so money that you're maybe saving to invest or saving
up for your first home. You have your lifestyle goal account,
you know, for holidays or special purchases things for you,

(12:42):
and then obviously you might have like emergency money as well.
So but you know, each account has a purpose and
there's amazing clarity as to which account that money needs.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
To go to. And because you have that separation, it
reduces the anxiety because it's not all in one and
you're trying to go, Okay, what belongs where you have
good financial hygiene.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
And you can automate it as well, so you can
have all, right, we've got two hundred dollars you know,
per month going into that emergency money or five hundreds
a month going to our financial goal account. You can
automate it as well. You've got the structure in place.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, So what I'm hearing from you is that the
more accounts the better.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
No, if there's a sweet spot, like was it Goldilocks?
Not too many accounts, not too few accounts?

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Okay, perfect amount? All right, Okay, they are our first three.
We've got two more to go. Let's take a quick break.
So automating bills, pay yourself first, separate accounts. I'm very
intrigued as to what numbers four and five are going
to be Can you give us a clue? Is it
gonna it's sexy? Would you say that about superannuation? There

(13:55):
you go, Oh, it's going to be superannuation.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
And investing us.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Oh okay, all right, okay, take a quick break back
in a moment, Cana. We are talking today about ways
five ways to be exact to remove anxiety from money decisions.
Working on that theory that the more decisions you have

(14:20):
to make, the more anxious you are about money. So therefore,
automating as much as you can and setting some structure
around your money will help remove that anxiety. And so
far that theory is actually what's being backed up by
what you've said. Let's go for number four on the list.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
What is it automating your superinnuation and investments. So making
regular contributions means that you're investing on a consistent basis,
and you know it's taking away the emotions and we
all know that the more you put into your super
and the more you're going to get out of your super.
Obviously you need to be aware of those annual limits,
of course, but and where that money's actually being invested.

(14:57):
But at least you're getting that money into your investment portfolio,
into your superannuation, and you know you're setting up, you know,
if you're actually investing that money, say you know, through
a regular investment plan, your dollar cost averaging. So you're
taking out that stress and anxiety of when to buy
because it's just happening for you. And that's where something
like an ETA for a list investment company, you know,

(15:19):
is a great tool to use for this type of strategy,
but you're protecting yourself from that should I buy now
analysis paralysis that couldn't quite often result in us just
doing nothing and as the market timing risk.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
The thing I like about this and automating that so
that you've got a certain amount going every month straight
out of your pay or whatever into superannuation or into investing,
is that for a lot of people, I would suspect
that they are not necessarily first tier commitments, right. They're
not kind of the things that you need to do
to survive for that month. It's not like paying your

(15:57):
grocery or paying your or your electricity kind of thing,
and so there would always be temptation if you had
to manually go and do it that I kind of
get pushed to the side a little bit because they
are not kind of a life or death matter for
that month. By automating it, you do'n't have to think
about it, and it just happened, and it becomes something

(16:18):
that is a bigger priority in your life and is
going to reward you in the future exactly. I loved
how you look so skeptical when I started talking there.
You were like, no, okay, all right. I thought I
was getting really good at judging your facial expressions, but
apparently not. I still see like the little twitch when
you say things, when I say things that you disagree with,

(16:39):
and I'm like, oh, she's gonna blow give us number five,
all right.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Automating financial reviews, chick ins and reminders, so yes, set
and figure. It doesn't mean ignore forever. So you know,
scheduling those quarterly calendar reminders to check in your cash flow,
you review those transactions, check your budget, maybe update your budget,
check your superinnuation performance, your balance. Some much is earning

(17:03):
the fees that you're paying. The big one I think
is that's really important, is you know, reassessing your goals
and what you're working towards, because sometimes we things change
we think. You know what, I'm not as excited about
that a goal or my goal is actually going to
be certainly needs to be achieved sooner or it's going
to be bigger. So this ensures that your systems are
actually evolving with you and you're staying in control without

(17:24):
the actual daily worry.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Okay. And that means then that if your income changes
or your expenses change and things, you've actually kind of
built in the opportunities to update your systems.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
For that, and therefore you're jumping on those opportunities, especially
if you're like you've got to pay rise, you can
update the budget and increase the amounts of putting to
your investments or super gives you an opportunity to jump
them before it evaporates and stops that lifestyle creep as well.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Okay, one last question from me, is there a risk
of over automating? Can you lose track of where your
money's going because it just shoots off in all different
directions of the moment it hits your account.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
I think there's some dangers of over automating, so because
you're never really properly checking in particularly that last tip
that we just shared about, you know, checking checking in
with your put your calendar notes, to check in on
your goals and your progress, because you can lose track
of changes all those opportunities that we just spoke about.
So the key is to automate the actual routine, but

(18:25):
to stay I guess, awake of the big and aware
of what the big picture is that you're working towards.
Automation is a safety net, it's not a substitute for awareness,
so it can keep you playing in a safe boundary,
but it doesn't mean that you just don't need to
worry at all, because you will miss out on great

(18:45):
opportunities and also not be actively working as hard as
you possibly could towards that goals. And this is why
I worry that sometimes over automation makes us far too complacent, lazy,
and we're not actually living up to our true capability.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
But if you are dealing with money anxiety, and if
you are dealing with kind of this analysis paralysis and
not being able to make a decision about your money
because you're just overwhelmed but there's too much.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
These are great strategies to put in place, and the
moment you're like, wow, this is great, I'm so easy
to look at the savings and I'm building up and
the investment portfolio. Doing this isn't even that hard.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
That is your wake.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Up call to actually review those automations and see where
you could potentially be pushing yourself a little bit more
to achieve more.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
And if you were to go and see a financial
planner with all of these things in place and say
I've got an automated savings plan and investing plan, they're
going to love you. Oh you'd be like this, like
start okay, all right, great list. So number one, automating
bills and front load those direct debits. That's a great
tip that one pay yourself first, separate accounts, super and investments,

(19:53):
automating those so that they actually do become a priority
in your life. And then automate the check ins for
your cash flow your financial goals as well, so that
you were doing that, say four times a year, and
that way you can make sure that your systems are
updated as your income evolves and your your expenses evolve
as well. All Right, if anybody wants more information from you,

(20:15):
they hit you up on Instagram.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
The best place to reach out to me. It's on
Instagram at sugar mommet TV or Canna Campbell Official.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
And you can hear me every day with Sean AyL
Or on Fear and Greed business news you can use.
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