Deafblind advocates empowering others

This week, Simon revisits the discussions he had earlier this year with Dr Rita Kleinfeld-Fowell, Deborah Kazich and Linni Oliver.

Legally Deaf and blind, Rita has faced - and overcome - immense challenges. Through resilience, strength and determination, she has transformed adversity into advocacy, using her lived experience to support and uplift others.

Now Head of Disability Law Practice at Sussex Street Community Legal Centre, Rita is passionate about empowering people with disability through knowledge, rights and representation.

For more information about Rita's work and the legal services available at Sussex Street Community Law Service, go to their website: sscls.asn.au

Deborah Kazich is a Deafblind advocate sharing her vibrant, active life, and Linni Oliver is a dedicated Communication Guide.

Deb has many interests including public speaking training with Toast Masters, and she never misses an opportunity to share her passion for her community and to help bring awareness of people living with Deafblindness.

More information about Deafblind West Australians can be found on their website.

Support Vision Australia Radio: https://www.visionaustralia.org/donate

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

S1 (00:17):
Hello and welcome to In Plain Sight, a program where
we highlight people who are making a positive impact in
the community and disability sector.

S2 (00:25):
Shining a light on those who would be otherwise hidden
in plain sight.

S1 (00:29):
And it's a pleasure to bring you these stories on
a weekly basis with you here on Vision Australia Radio.
In this holiday season, we're presenting a series of compilations
of selected in Plain Sight programs from this year. Today
we'll hear excerpts from the mid-June program celebrating Deaf Blindness
Awareness Week.

S2 (00:48):
We are, and it's a pleasure to bring you this
really interesting program today. And firstly, we're going to hear
from Deborah Keswick. And Deborah is a delightful, passionate, interesting,
fun person who is a really passionate deaf blind advocate
and advocate for all people with a disability and a

(01:09):
strong representative of her community. It's really fun to hear
from Deb, and we'll also learn a lot about what
it is like to live with deaf blindness and how
Deb then advocates for other people in her community.

S1 (01:23):
We'll also hear from Lenny Oliver, who's a communications guide,
which is a very specialized area of of support work.
After we hear from Deb and Lenny, we'll hear Simon's
conversation with Doctor Rita Kleinfeld for who's the head of
disability law practice at the Sussex Street Community Legal Centre
in Perth.

S2 (01:47):
Introducing Deborah Kasich to the audience now. Hi, Deb. How
are you going?

S3 (01:52):
Hi, Simon. Hi, everyone.

S2 (01:54):
Thanks for joining us, Deb. Now, Deb, I'll start with
the bare basics. First. You're deaf.

S3 (02:00):
Blind, correct?

S2 (02:01):
Tell us about that. What is that condition caused by
my conditions?

S3 (02:05):
I was born deaf blind with rubella syndrome because my
mum was pregnant with me. Caught German measles. It is
with syndrome because she you got German measles. My vision.
I've got limited sight in my left eye. No sight
in my right eye. My hearing is I can hear

(02:28):
the sound. And I wear hearing aids when I'm in
a loud environment. I use my Roger Penn.

S2 (02:37):
And what's that?

S3 (02:38):
It's the microphone that connects to my hearing aids.

S2 (02:41):
Oh, yes.

S3 (02:42):
For those of you who doesn't know about the Roger pen,
many people who are deafblind can use when they go
to a large environment, like, for example, the Shakespeare run
for reasons. Yes, the Roger pen really helps me to
focus on my support worker or family member, whoever I

(03:04):
was with on that day.

S2 (03:06):
I follow you on social media, and you're very active
member of the deafblind community and the very active person
within our community in general. What do you do for work, Deb?

S3 (03:17):
I work at Sammy's in Canning Vale on Mondays. I
work in the canteen on Wednesdays and Fridays. I work
in the warehouse.

S2 (03:28):
What's the warehouse?

S3 (03:29):
The warehouse is based in Canning Vale. We got a
whole range of jobs in the warehouse. And we march house.
I do the folding the clothes in the factory, and
I make sure all my peers work colleagues are happy
with their job.

S2 (03:49):
Okay. How long have you been working there?

S3 (03:50):
19.5 years. This Christmas. I'll be there for 20 years.

S2 (03:56):
Wow. 20 years. Sounds like you enjoy that job. And
I know that you also do Toastmasters, where you're learning
public speaking and you are a public speaker. Is that right?

S3 (04:07):
Correct.

S2 (04:08):
Tell me about that. What do you do there at Toastmasters?
For those who don't know what Toastmasters is.

S3 (04:13):
For those of you who don't know about Toastmasters? Toastmasters
is a group where we go and learn to do
public speaking.

S2 (04:21):
Why do you want to be a public speaker, Deb?

S3 (04:23):
The reason why I want to Toastmasters to do public
speaking is because I want to do presentations at census
and the information Australia's present on technology and many other things.

S2 (04:38):
Because that's the main reason I want you in here,
because you are a very proud, hard working representative of
your deafblind community and you are a strong advocate for
people who are deaf, blind and the disability sector in general.
And I really find it fascinating and fabulous that you
work so hard at what you do. Deb, what motivates

(05:00):
you to be an advocate for deafblind people?

S3 (05:03):
When I'm in my local community and I've seen some
of the places not accessible, and I get out there
and get strong advocate for the deafblind community and a
lot my area to know, to understand many of our
people who are deafblind.

S2 (05:21):
What are the main things you would like people to
know about being deafblind?

S3 (05:26):
Well, the main thing is I would like to see
the community to understand how to work with people who
are deafblind, like the support workers and Kong guides and
health professionals. They need to know how to understand with
people who are deafblind.

S2 (05:44):
Yep. Being deaf blind. Are you able to use sign
language or Auslan as it's known?

S3 (05:51):
I know a few basic listening. Just recently on Sunday,
when we have our Metronet open line for the line,
I demonstrates a few items with our Premier of Western Australia,
Brian Cook. And he was so impressed with me, with
the with my Auslan skills. And I told him I'm

(06:12):
coming on this show to thank you.

S2 (06:15):
Well done And so do you. Use the touch sign language?

S3 (06:19):
Yeah, yeah. Mainly use the general Auslan. And we do
haptics as well. The VW connect hub.

S2 (06:28):
Now I might bring in Lindy Oliver now. Hi Linda.
How are you?

S4 (06:32):
Hi, Simon. I'm good, thank you.

S2 (06:34):
Great that you could join us today on a really
busy time for you guys.

S4 (06:39):
Yeah. Happy to be here. Thank you.

S2 (06:40):
Now I'll just start with the basics with you to
Lindy that you're a communications guide. Is that right.

S4 (06:45):
A communication guide? Yes.

S2 (06:47):
Can you tell us what that is?

S4 (06:48):
A communication guide is like a support worker, but with
specialised skills to work 1 to 1 with a person
who is deafblind. So we've done some additional training to
give us the skills to help people to safely navigate
around their environments, the skills to be able to give
them environmental information that they're missing out on, and communication

(07:09):
support as well.

S2 (07:11):
How long have you been doing that? Lynnie.

S4 (07:12):
Oh, I was involved in the initial pilot project that
introduced communication guides to um, Australia. And that was 14.5
years ago.

S2 (07:23):
Fabulous. And you're also involved with what I call Diwa,
which is deaf blind Western Australia. Is that right?

S4 (07:30):
Yes. That's right. I am very much involved. Yes.

S2 (07:34):
And you participate in these hubs that was just talking about.

S4 (07:37):
Uh, yes I do. I help support the haptic, um,
lessons that we do there and also support some of
our deaf blind clients that come along to the hub.

S2 (07:47):
Now, Deb mentioned haptics a few times, and I've seen
it happen. I don't fully understand it. Can you tell
us what haptics are and how they work?

S4 (07:57):
Absolutely. Haptics are touch messages that are given on neutral
areas of the body that provide the person who is deaf, blind,
or a person who is blind as well, to receive
additional information that they're not receiving through their hearing loss
and their vision loss. So what sighted people and hearing

(08:17):
people can see and hear. We provide that information through
haptics to the deaf blind person so we can give
information about, like when I arrived here today, she wanted
to know what this room looked like. So I mapped
that out on her back for her to let her
know what the layout of the room was like, where
she was sitting in the room, and where everyone else

(08:37):
was positioned in relation to where she is as well.
So we can ask people if they want a cup
of tea or coffee without having to, you know, communicate
that verbally to them and you can just do seamless
additional communication with the person through haptics, through the touch messages.

S2 (08:55):
So that's a separate thing to the fingerspelling for deaf
blind and the physical Auslan that might also have to do.

S4 (09:03):
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Haptics is not a language. It's a
communication tool that provides additional information. So it's not like
Auslan where it's a full language, but it does use
some signs from Iceland for the touch messages.

S2 (09:19):
Just for those listening. A great example of this was
just recently on the ABC TV program The Piano, where
one of the people on that program who was playing
the piano is a deaf blind woman by the name
of Michelle Stevens. They showed how her assistance communicated with her.
And what it also showed was that Michelle is a

(09:41):
wonderful piano player and that music can communicate with everybody,
regardless of their ability or disability, and it was a
fabulous representation of deaf blindness in action.

S1 (09:57):
On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to a special compilation
program of In Plain Sight. We've just heard from two
passionate disability advocates, Deb Keswick and Lynnie Oliver. And next
we'll hear from a program also from June where Simon
spoke with Doctor Rita Kleinfeld Fowle, who is the head
of disability law practice at the Sussex Street Community Legal

(10:19):
Centre here in Perth.

S2 (10:21):
And like Deborah, Rita is also deaf blind and we
learn about how Rita deals with the difficulties of having
a dual sensory loss as she was born with a
syndrome called Usher's syndrome that affects both her hearing and
her sight, and she has had these difficulties since she

(10:43):
was a young child, and we learn about how she
overcame these difficulties not only with great success, but then
moved into the world of being a successful lawyer. She
moved into this area of work because she is very
passionate to ensure that people with these types of disabilities
are not left behind and are not neglected and are

(11:07):
treated with fairness, kindness and equality, which is very important
to read and is the driving force with her personal
life and her professional life. And it was a pleasure
to hear from Rita. You're currently working as a disability
discrimination lawyer at the Sussex Street Community Legal Service. Is

(11:29):
that right?

S5 (11:30):
Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I'm head of disability practice. We
have a team of, um, advocate, and we have lawyers
who do the legal side of it.

S2 (11:41):
Now we'll go back in time. You are legally blind
and legally deaf. Is that right?

S5 (11:46):
Yeah.

S2 (11:46):
So what we terminology is deaf. Blind?

S5 (11:50):
Yep. The terminology is indeed deaf blind. Um, but I
would diagnose, uh, when I was about three and four. Um,
I was born in King Cross in Australia, but then
went back to the UK, and it was only when
I was in a day nursery that a social worker
picked up on my behaviour. I was the nightmare child. Gosh. Um,

(12:13):
I was banned from nursery and then I went through
a diagnosed assessment and that when they picked up on
the deafness and blindness.

S2 (12:22):
So, Rita, what's the nature of your deaf blindness? What's
it caused by, and what's the name of it? Well.

S5 (12:29):
Um, ironically, I've only just been diagnosed, um, by the
Lyon Institute, um, eye clinic. Um.

S2 (12:36):
And hats off to syndrome.

S5 (12:37):
Yeah.

S2 (12:38):
Usher syndrome. Yeah. So that was at the Lyons Institute? Yes. Yeah.
Here in Perth. Yeah. What a fabulous organisation.

S5 (12:46):
They do a lot of good work. Yeah.

S2 (12:48):
One of the most renowned, leading research institutions, not only
in this country but around the world.

S5 (12:55):
Mhm. Yeah. I mean I've lived in the UK for
a long, long time and they didn't really pick pick
up on it. It was the Lion Institute in Western
Australia that diagnosed me.

S2 (13:06):
The little I know about Usher's it's for people who
are deaf blind. It's one of the more common diagnoses
isn't it. Yeah.

S5 (13:15):
Correct. Yeah, yeah.

S2 (13:17):
You mentioned you're from the UK. Whereabouts from the UK from?

S5 (13:20):
Yeah, I'm from the north west. Um, in a little
seaside resort called Southport. I do have a Liverpudlian accent,
so the twang did come out when I go back
over there.

S2 (13:33):
I always find it fascinating. Um, that's part of the
nature of this programme. What motivates people to move into
the space of. Okay, I've faced something myself and I
want to get over that hurdle. But not only do
I want to get over that hurdle and be a

(13:54):
stronger person in myself, but I want to be a
role model and help other people. What? What do you think?
What do you think initiated that within you, Rita?

S5 (14:03):
I think because I went through that personal experience of
facing barriers and could they around me that people with
disabilities were facing similar issues? Um, I decided to go
into law and try and make a change. So I

(14:23):
qualified as a solicitor in the UK and then became
a High Court solicitor doing judicial review. So that basically,
were you challenging the government for failure to carry out
their community care assessment, which is the equivalent of the
NDIS here? So some really high profile cases, um, you know,

(14:46):
often I'd be travelling down to London on, on a
weekly basis, you know, and that's like a four hour
journey on the train. It was. Yeah. Nightmare. But I
made a different I made a different. Yeah. And then
I took a life change balance. I wanted to go
back to Australia. I really, really wanted to go back
to my home country.

S2 (15:06):
You are working as a lawyer. We'll get into the
specifics of the kind of work that you're doing at
Sussex Street shortly. But, um, I know I've known a
number of blind people who are lawyers and solicitors and
barristers even. What sort of assistance and and help do
you need? Being blind within that kind of role?

S5 (15:29):
I have like, um, a video reader. Mhm. Um.

S2 (15:34):
For those who don't know, can you tell us the
basics of what a video reader.

S5 (15:37):
Though a video reader is a bit like the old
CCTV camera where you sort of enlarged the a written document. Yes. Um,
but but the though now that they're quite portable and
they can, you know, they can be carried into court. Um,
I also put the court on notice, you know, the magistrate,
the judge or the tribunal, you know, let the court know.

(16:02):
And they are very, very accommodating. Um, they also have
those special, um, heads there that are, um, looped into
the microphone. So, you know, just just be mindful if
you ever caught yourself asked for the special microphone and headset.
If you've got a hearing impairment but a really, really good.

S2 (16:24):
We'll move into what you actually are doing within Sussex
Street Community Legal Service now in the area of disability discrimination,
because that is one of the main important areas, not
only for what you're doing currently, but our audience are
very interested in. And that's one of the themes of
our show. Can you tell us some of the main

(16:46):
things that you're doing?

S5 (16:48):
Yeah. Of course. So I, I thought of, um, uh,
started with 18 months ago. Um, they sort of created
a new role ahead of disability practice. And I think
because on the back of the disability royal Commission, there
was an increase in demand for people with disabilities seeking

(17:11):
advocacy and legal services. Um, but like 18 months now
on um, what I've I've done I we do do
disability discrimination. Uh, we only have funding for one lawyer. Um,
but the demand is absolutely huge. We're trying to get
funding in from the government. The Labour government. Hopefully that

(17:35):
will happen. Um, but what I've, what I'm doing at
the moment is trying to provide a wraparound service because
there's nothing worse when a person with disability who's been
traumatised in the past is having to be bounced from
pillar to post. So, you know, a person with a
disability might come to us and say, hey, I'm facing

(17:57):
discrimination in employment or my child is not getting the
education that he or she needs because the reasonable adjustments
are not put in place. So we provide a wraparound
therapy with the legal services, and we provide them an
advocate to, you know, to support mum or the person

(18:18):
facing employment barriers. But we also do civil law. We
do race. Um, sex. Um, we do guardianship. So as
long as you've got a disability.

S2 (18:31):
You'll qualify in a legal sense. How do we define
disability discrimination.

S5 (18:38):
So disability discrimination can be direct. So direct as blatantly
saying you're not allowed into the restaurant with your guide dog.
Or it can be indirect where a policy may say,
for example, have a policy for apprenticeships, but the stipulation

(19:02):
is that the person, the young person had to have
a Tod. Now, this would put the disability community at
um at a disadvantage, because we know that people with
intellectual disability will not gain that level of high school education.

(19:25):
So that indirect discrimination that a typical example.

S2 (19:29):
Another common one in regards to employment or seeking employment
that the blind community notice quite frequently is that in
every job ad it says must have a driver's license. Oh,
and even when we explain, hang on, I'm going to
go to the office and then be in that office.
I don't I'm not driving anyone anywhere. Why do I

(19:52):
need a driver's license? And there are other ways of
going around it.

S5 (19:57):
So I've had a few cases like that where, you know,
people have been legally blind and have had real social
workers or teachers. In theory, if they put in a
recruitment advertisement, you need a driving license. It indirect discrimination.
And that's where they're putting a condition on somebody with

(20:17):
a disability.

S2 (20:18):
Yes. doing this highly stressful work. Being a disability lawyer,
you must have life balance. So what do you do
for your life balance? Reader, in regards to recreation and leisure?

S5 (20:30):
Look, I, I go to the gym. I love my, um,
bodypump class.

S2 (20:38):
Bodypump.

S5 (20:39):
Yeah. And body comeback, which is like a martial art. Um,
but my passion is ballroom dancing. I've only been doing
it for about two years. Um, and I thought I
came across it on Facebook. Um, Darryl Davenport. Yes. He
he sort of owned the dance school. He's done amazing

(21:00):
things for people with visual impairment. Uh, and I love dancing. Um,
I love going into competitions. It's really good for mental health.

S1 (21:15):
It was great to revisit those conversations from earlier this year.
And as we heard from Deb and Rita, their working
lives are in very specialized areas, but they're both passionate
ballroom dancers.

S2 (21:27):
Yes, they both do enjoy ballroom dancing, and I like
to acknowledge the organization where they do their ballroom dancing,
which is ballroom fit, which is run and organized by
the wonderful, lovely Darryl Davenport. And I'd like to say
hello to Darryl. And, um, in both cases, they both
find ballroom dancing a great community participation event, as well

(21:50):
as being a wonderful way of relieving stress from their
daily lives, and a great way of participating with others
with similar interests and similar passions. It was also really
fabulous to hear from both Deb and Rita, to learn
about what it is like living with these impacting disabilities.

(22:15):
One can only imagine what it would be like to
live with severe sight loss and hearing loss in one package.
I don't know about you, but I would find that
really challenging. These two individuals have demonstrated how they've moved
beyond those personal challenges, learnt from that, and also now

(22:40):
want to help others who are living with similar challenges
and advocate to assist other people with other disabilities to
help forge a more equal and humane society. And I
really take my hat off to these wonderful people, and
this is the joy and the beauty of creating a
program like this, where we bring people together. We are

(23:03):
creating a virtual community here on the radio and podcast,
and I really like to thank my participants and in
this case, Deb, Lynn and Rita for participating and helping,
demonstrating to others what it means to be firstly an
active member of a community and secondly a person who

(23:24):
dedicates their time and energy in their passions to helping
others and ensuring that people are treated with dignity, respect
and equality. And I thank them for that and I
thank you for listening. Bye for now.

S1 (23:50):
That concludes in Plain Sight for this week. Join us
at the same time next week on Vision Australia Radio,
VA radio, digital and online at VA Radio.com. You can
also listen on demand by searching for In Plain Sight
by Vision Australia Radio. Wherever you get your podcasts, or
ask your smart device to play in Plain Sight by

(24:12):
Vision Australia Radio. Thanks for listening.

S6 (24:14):
Thank you.