May 6, 2025 • 26 mins
“Music brought us together and keeps us together,” - Kaye Fairbairn, speaking about her husband Andrew
On this week’s episode, we sit down with Kaye Fairbairn for a candid conversation about adaptability and challenging assumptions. This personal profile delves into Kaye’s journey through the lenses of family, service, inclusion, and equality — offering insights into how these themes shape her life and perspective.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:11):
Hi I'm Abby.
S2 (00:12):
I'm Simon, and welcome to. In Plain Sight, a program
where we highlight people who are making a positive impact
within their community and the disability sector.
S1 (00:21):
Shining a light on those who might otherwise be hidden
in plain sight.
S2 (00:26):
And we share these stories on a weekly basis. Review
here on Vision Australia Radio.
S1 (00:34):
Hi, Simon.
S2 (00:35):
How you doing, Abe?
S1 (00:36):
You know, the usual.
S2 (00:37):
Okay.
S1 (00:38):
Well, it's all ramping up.
S2 (00:40):
Yep, yep. Life ticks along. It's going so fast, I
don't even know what day it is. But recently it
was Anzac Day, and I reached out to a friend
of mine who I knew was in the Navy and
knew that his wife was in the Navy also. And
they are musicians, and that's who we are going to
speak to today. We are going to be speaking to
Kay Fairbairn, who was a musician in the Royal Australian Navy.
(01:03):
I've never been in the military. How about you, Abby?
You ever been in the military?
S1 (01:08):
I'm a bit young. Um, I was going to join
the Navy after high school. I definitely considered it. Went
through the application process, but I'm a New Zealand citizen,
so they wouldn't accept me.
S2 (01:21):
What was your motivation to want to join in the
first place?
S1 (01:23):
My dad told me I should. Yeah, okay. Looking back,
it's definitely not my thing. I don't think I'm disciplined enough,
that's for sure. And after touring the submarine that is
located in Perth, I realised I could definitely not live
on that.
S2 (01:39):
Yeah, I don't have any military experience either. My grandfather,
like a lot of grandfathers of my vintage, was in
the Second World War. However, I was in Army cadets
at school and we had Army cadets in year nine
and partway through year ten. And it was a fabulous experience. Uh,
don't know what I learnt. I did learn how to
(01:59):
make what do they call it? Hospital corners. When we
made the bed, I learnt how to iron and how
to polish boots and how to salute and march and
all that type of business. And we learned a little
bit of discipline, which was quite ironic because one day
a week we took pride in our appearance. We tucked
our long hair into our army berets, we took our
(02:19):
earrings out, and we we pretended we were soldiers and
we got to go on camps and things of that nature,
and we got to shoot guns.
S1 (02:29):
Wow.
S2 (02:30):
And I'm quite anti-gun kind of person, but we're going
back to the 1970s, and we went on Army camps
and got to shoot rifles.
S1 (02:40):
And how has this helped you in your adult life?
S2 (02:42):
It helped give me a sense of discipline in some ways,
and the importance of taking pride in my appearance and
to be part of a team. And that's what being
in the military is all about. From everything we know
about it, is so important to be part of a team.
One of the main themes that came out of the
discussion we had with Kay was no limitations.
S1 (03:05):
Yes. Don't let anything hold you back. And I know
it's easy to say that, but at the end of
the day, it's a mental battle. I think that can
be hard for many people, but you never know unless
you give it a try. And don't let anyone tell
you you can't do something.
S2 (03:18):
That's right, and we will learn while we listen to
the conversation with Kate that throughout her life and her
son and daughter's life, they were given opportunities and told
not to limit the way they think or what they
might want to achieve. And this is so important in
our community. That was the takeaway message.
S1 (03:37):
And I'd just like to say that it was a
great interview talking about family and service. So we hope
you enjoy it.
S2 (03:50):
Hi, Kay.
S3 (03:51):
Hi, Simon.
S2 (03:51):
Katie's talking to us from all the way over in
another suburb of Perth on a mobile phone. And we're
in the studio here at Vision Australia Radio in Perth.
And we'd like to welcome Kate to the airwaves today.
Some people in the audience might recognize the name Fairbairn
because Kay's husband Andrew is one of WA's most recognised
(04:12):
disability advocates, and Andrew and I worked together for people
with disabilities several years ago now. Kay, we'll get Andrew
out of the way because he's not all that important.
Can you briefly tell us about Andrew's situation and why
he has a disability?
S4 (04:26):
Sure. Andrew has a left below knee amputation and he
made the decision to have that surgery. Uh, ten years ago,
he had been battling an infection in his left foot
for on and off for ten years. The infection was
actually in the bones of the foot. Uh, we didn't
(04:48):
know initially that that's what was causing the problem. Um,
it was osteomyelitis, which is a bacterial infection. And I,
with my background in my time in the Navy, I
was a medic. So with my background in, in nursing,
I was able to look after Andrew's foot. And for
(05:09):
two years, I dressed his foot daily. Because he had
a big, nasty hole in his foot. Ooh. Um. Yeah,
it was pretty bad. And that infection was beginning to
travel through the bones. And, um, we did a lot
of research, and we decided or he decided. And I
(05:30):
supported him in his decision to have his left leg
amputated below the knee. And that decision was a very
positive decision because, um, from that time up until now,
he is very mobile. He walks very well. He actually
has a very good gait, and he currently manages to walk, uh,
(05:54):
more than 20,000 steps per day. So when he's on
the phone for work, he will pace around the backyard.
He he he's got this track that he walks. And
rather than sitting at the desk, he will pick up
his mobile phone and walk. And sometimes he can be
on the phone to his boss, who is in Melbourne
(06:16):
for 45 minutes, in which case he will walk kilometres
around the backyard. So the decision to have the amputation
was very positive. Although we've had to learn to do
a few things differently, it's been also very good for
our relationship.
S2 (06:33):
Yeah, okay. That's interesting because that was one of the
reasons I wanted to talk to you as well, to
get the perspective of a partner with somebody with a disability.
You mentioned that you have a background in nursing and
being a medic. So I'm wondering if that obviously had
some influence on how you may have reacted to the
dramatic situation that was occurring within your family?
S4 (06:56):
Yes, because of the experience with nursing, I knew that
the wounds that Andrew had on his foot wasn't healing,
despite my best efforts to look after it under the
guidance of medical team at Sir Charles Gairdner Hospital. Um,
it would heal and then it would break down because
(07:16):
he would be on his feet to work, because at
the time we had established our own support business called
Axe Access Community Training and Support. And we were supporting
several families, various disabilities, but most often, um, intellectual disability.
And we were supporting them in the community. And so
(07:39):
some days Andrew would be on his feet for a
long time, and usually with those days, the wound on
his foot would break down and we would be back
to square one.
S2 (07:49):
So that leads me to the next point that I
wanted to ask you about. You have two children, is
that right?
S4 (07:55):
Yes, I do, um, a boy and girl. They're twins.
S2 (07:58):
Twins?
S4 (07:59):
Kyle. Kyle was born seven minutes before his sister Gail.
S2 (08:04):
And how old are they?
S4 (08:05):
They turned And 34th August last year.
S2 (08:09):
Okay. Is it right that gays in the military as well.
S4 (08:12):
Gail spent ten years in the Australian Army? She was
a clerk. Um, unfortunately, she suffered a training accident and
damaged her left knee. It seems to be a recurring
theme in the family that the left leg is affected.
S2 (08:29):
Yeah. Right.
S4 (08:30):
Yeah. And so she discharged, but now she is, um,
currently studying her diploma of Auslan interpreting. He wants to
be an Auslan interpreter. She works for the Queensland Education
Department as an educational interpreter in Auslan.
S1 (08:49):
That's amazing.
S4 (08:50):
Yeah. She's working in the disability industry in her own way.
S2 (08:53):
How did you get started with being a service person?
You have family background in the military?
S4 (08:58):
My family has very limited military background. I had a
distant uncle on my paternal grandmother's side Was in the
First World War. But on Andrew's side of the family, there's.
A couple of generations. Grandfather was in the British Army.
His father served for a short time in the British
(09:19):
Army before coming to Australia. His oldest brother, Duncan, was
a communicator in the Royal Australian Navy for over 20 years,
and Andrew himself joined the Navy to be a musician
when he was 16.5 years old. And that comes to
the point where I joined the Navy after I studied
(09:41):
for six years in music at the Victorian College of
the Arts, I studied three years Diploma of Arts, music
and then in opera, and then three years Associate Diploma
in Opera and Music Theatre. My goal was to become
a performer, but, uh, I was a little bit too
young to join opera companies. So they said to me,
(10:04):
go away and get some life experience. So my idea
of going away and getting life experience was to join
the Navy. I was one of the first three females
to be recruited to join the Navy as a band member. Um,
up until 1985, the band branch was closed to women. Really? Yes.
(10:28):
It was a male dominated branch. Uh, they were encouraged
to open up the branch to females. I auditioned and
passed the audition as a vocalist, but I had to
have an instrument to be on parade and to. When
I wasn't singing with the band, I needed an instrument
(10:48):
to play. So they gave me a clarinet, and the
closest thing I'd had held in my life to a
clarinet was a recorder.
S2 (10:57):
In.
S4 (10:58):
Grade. In grade six. I love the recorder and I
could play it really well, but that was the closest
I came to playing a clarinet. They gave me 18
months to learn to play it. Unfortunately, I didn't make
the grade, but I'll backtrack a little bit. Andrew and
I met on Valentine's Day, 1986, when I was 25
(11:22):
years old. My first day when I turned up to
the Defence Force School of Music in Melbourne, and Andrew
was a sailor at the time. He was at the
School of Music himself, learning oboe.
S2 (11:36):
You told me in our notes that you were married
on the 10th of December, 1988. Is that right?
S4 (11:42):
That's correct. Yes. Yes. My 24th.
S2 (11:44):
Birthday.
S4 (11:47):
Awesome. So we have a connection there? Yeah. So, um,
and then on the 29th of August, 1990, Kyle and Gail,
our twins, were born. So that was the start of
my life as the mum of some very wonderful children
and a very loving and talented husband. Music brought us
(12:10):
together and it keeps us together. Andrew. Yeah, he's the
one legged sax player. That's right. We performed together in
a duo called Two or More.
S2 (12:18):
Yes. And you do a beautiful job. The couple of
times I've seen you play. And you're a beautiful singer,
so hats off to you. Now, we mentioned Gail there.
Tell us a little bit about Kyle.
S4 (12:28):
Okay. Well, Kyle, unfortunately, being twins, when Kyle was born,
they were breech, which meant that they weren't facing the
right direction to be born naturally. And we discovered during
my labor that the umbilical cord was wrapped around Kyle's neck. Now,
(12:48):
rather than rushing me into the operating theatre and doing
an emergency caesarean, the doctor, in his wisdom, decided that
I would continue to give birth naturally. He didn't think
that the umbilical cord was too tight around his He's
Nick so I, I had them naturally. As soon as
(13:12):
Kyle was out, Gail flipped herself around and she came out.
But Kyle came out. He was a tiny bit cold, um,
a little bit blue. He was a tiny bit oxygen starved. Andrew,
I have no recollection of this because I was busy. Yes,
I had another baby to give birth to, but Andrew
(13:34):
said that there was a little huddle of, um, nurse
and doctor over Kyle, and it took a little, probably
two minutes or so for him to take his first
breath unaided. Um, it wasn't until Kyle was five years
old and he was at school. The school nurse discovered
that he had impairments. Um, they were significantly to do
(13:59):
with his fine motor skills and gross motor skills. So
he he couldn't catch a ball properly. He couldn't pick
up things properly. So we went through some testing and
found that Kyle had intellectual disability. Uh, was diagnosed with
global developmental delay at the age of six years old.
S2 (14:18):
Say that again. Global development.
S4 (14:21):
Global developmental delay.
S2 (14:23):
Okay. What does that mean in layman's terms?
S4 (14:26):
In layman's terms, basically, that Kyle didn't reach his milestones
as a baby, as a young person, the same as
anyone born at the same time. So when Kyle was
at pre-primary, his learning level more at a three year
old level. Um, so and as his sister progressed normally,
(14:50):
then Kyle was delayed in his progression.
S2 (14:53):
Moving ahead a little bit. Does Kyle have any physical impairments?
S4 (14:57):
No physical impairments? No. He's, um, a strong, healthy, fit
young man. He actually operates his own micro-enterprise. It's called
Kyle's coffee cut.
S3 (15:08):
Tell us a little bit about that.
S2 (15:10):
I find that really interesting. I think it's a really
great initiative. Tell us from the beginning how did that
enterprise get up and running?
S4 (15:16):
The idea was first proposed by his local area coordinator
from Disability Services Commission right back when Kyle was 13
years old. So he was actually just starting high school.
And he's lack suggested that he might like because he
was he loved serving people. All of the work experience
(15:41):
that he did was to do with serving people. Um,
he even worked in a cafe for 3 or 4
years post high school. And that's where his love of
making coffee was fostered. But let's skip forward to 2020.
During the pandemic, when everything was closing down around us.
(16:01):
It was a good time for us because Valued Lives
had their Microenterprise prize program was up and running, being
funded by the Ndia and um, two people who were
at valued lives at the time, Natasha Anderson and Marcus Carney,
helped us to build Kyle's business plan.
S2 (16:22):
Okay.
S4 (16:24):
That's where we came upon Kyle's coffee cart, and they
helped us to build the plan and then to apply
for a grant from 1 to 1 organization. But his
very first service of Kyle's coffee cart happened to be
at the International Day of People with disability on the
3rd of December 2020 at um, the East East Perth
(16:49):
Football Club in Leederville.
S2 (16:51):
Okay, so that's carts with a K.
S4 (16:54):
Cart with a K. Yeah. When we were talking about
the idea of the name for him, someone suggested Kyle's
coffee with a K and we said no, that would
make it KKK. And we didn't think that was a
very good.
S1 (17:07):
Oh, no. Where is his car located day to day.
S4 (17:12):
We purchased a cart from Queensland and had it transported
to Perth. Purchased that in October 2020. And Andrew said
to Kyle, mate, you make $10,000 using this cart and
I will buy you a mobile coffee van. So from
October 2020, let's forward to March 2023. And we purchased
(17:36):
a second hand mobile van for him. And so now
his van operates five days a week during the school term.
And it currently visits eight schools supplying staff and families
with good quality coffee and other hot drinks and cold drinks.
And he does events on weekends, approximately one a month.
S2 (17:58):
So just to skip forward a little bit because time
is running away from us. So given Kyle's impairment being
intellectual disability, what areas of support does he need and
how does it work?
S4 (18:08):
Okay. He currently has three support workers and they assist
him in all of the administration of running the business.
They support him. He has his driver's license. He does
drive the van, the local areas where he's very familiar
on the roads that he's very familiar. But if he
has to drive into the city or drive long distances, uh,
(18:31):
where he's not familiar, then they will drive. He has
had support from one of his support workers. She's been
with him from the start, and she set up a
lot of documents for him and to help him. So
there are checklists and there are templates on on his computer.
He has a booking form where expressions of interest from
(18:55):
various organizations, they might come. He's got a web page
where his booking form is there. So expressions of interest
for him to book him come from there or Facebook page.
We have a number of Organizations who book him on
an ongoing basis. Some of the schools booking for their
sports carnivals and other small events that his support workers
(19:19):
helping with ordering his stock.
S2 (19:22):
So just to sum up. Yeah, he gets really great
support there. I just wanted to ask you, K, what
would you say to other people in a similar situation?
Mums and dads listening to or young people who are thinking,
hang on, I might have a intellectual disability, I can
get a driver's license, I could get a business because
(19:42):
they must be big hurdles. And I must admit my
naivety that I didn't know he had a driver's license
for one. What do you say to people who are
firstly are ignorant like me? Or secondly, might be wanting
to get themselves or their their young person into a
micro-business of some sort?
S4 (20:01):
When Kyle started at high school, very, very wise principal
said to Andrew and me, she said, don't put limitations
on your tiles. It may take him her longer to
get where you want, where they want to be, but
don't ever put limitations on them. Let them try. Let
(20:23):
give them the support they need and let them try.
And that's why it took quite a long time to
get his driver's license. And he still needs support. He
still has the support of his like, you know, the team.
They sit with him and they help him keep his
focus and they help him with situations arise where he
might get a little bit flustered, but they are there
(20:46):
to assist him. And I say that statement, don't put
limitations on your child. If they have an interest, a
burning interest. I've seen some wonderful businesses. Even before Kyle started.
We were supported by our local area coordination team at
Disability Services Commission, and they showed us pictures and and
(21:09):
the And the story of a young man with intellectual
disability who had his own lawn mowing service. And this
was before Microenterprises even became a thing. And I love
going to the market days and events where there are
I mean, you see them people with with all of
their faculties and no disability. They're running their craft markets
(21:31):
and they're selling their wares. Why can't people with disability
be among those at those markets? And it's it's wonderful.
S2 (21:40):
My takeaway from what you've been saying this whole time
since we started this conversation, Kate, is don't put limitations
on on who you are and how you think and
what you want to do. That's fabulous.
S4 (21:52):
Yeah, definitely. And when you hear I get upset, sometimes
people will say to me, oh, I'm so sorry that
you have a son with an intellectual disability. Oh, I'm
so sorry. You have a husband with an amputation. I say,
don't be sorry for me. My family, we have a
strong family and my husband and my son and my daughter,
(22:14):
they are very skilled in what they do and I
love them to bits and I support them. I will
speak about them for as long as someone will listen.
S2 (22:24):
I feel sorry for you because you must get left
behind sometimes because of let's. Let's not forget the woman
behind the story or in front of the story as well.
You know.
S4 (22:37):
I have my own outline. Apart from singing with Andrew,
I sing with the Western Australian Symphony Orchestra chorus. And
I love singing with the chorus. The orchestra and I
also help out occasionally at school with young kids at
primary school where I work. Just recently, I stepped in
for the music teacher to take the choir for our
(22:59):
Harmony day assembly. So I have my moments to shine.
S2 (23:04):
That's great. Well, that's what we're all about here on
this program, is to shine a light on people who
otherwise would be hidden in plain sight. And that's when
I thought about talking to you. That's what I wanted
to do, was because we often see that the mums
and the wives and the and the people behind the
scenes in this can be not in the spotlight. And
(23:25):
we all know that Andrew doesn't need to be in
the spotlight. Um, and Carl puts himself in the spotlight
because of he's got a job in the public there,
and he likes to chat to people as well. So
well done to you, K. And you're obviously not a
shy person because you're a singer and you're a performer.
And um, so that must help as well.
S4 (23:45):
Definitely. Yeah. And and I'm, I'm very proud of my
little family and everything that we achieve. We may not
be famous, famous, but we do. Well.
S2 (23:57):
Yes. Well, we hope to make you more famous. K,
are you and Andrew got any music performances coming up?
S4 (24:04):
Made some requests from various organizations to have us come
to perform. We don't we don't have a regular performance location. But, um,
we do like to support disability organizations and other commercial
organizations when they have conferences and things like that.
S2 (24:24):
And remind me again, what's the name of your little group?
S4 (24:27):
Our duo is called two or more.
S2 (24:29):
Two or more. And what about the other choruses that
you were just telling us about? You got any of
those coming up soon?
S4 (24:34):
Western Australian Symphony Orchestra Chorus will be performing in June,
I believe. June. We've got. Yeah, at Winthrop Hall at
University of WA.
S2 (24:45):
Oh, lovely. Let's look out for that.
S4 (24:47):
Yeah. It's, um, a program called Poulenc's Gloria.
S2 (24:53):
Say that again, please. Program called.
S4 (24:55):
Poulenc's Gloria. Poulenc being a French composer. And the piece
that he wrote was Gloria.
S2 (25:03):
Well, we'll have to finish this conversation now. Kay, Fabian,
thank you very much for talking with me. It's been
a delight. It's been really good fun and you've had
such a full and interesting life. So I'd like to
say thank you and, uh, look forward to speaking to
you another time.
S4 (25:18):
Thanks for having me on your program, Simon. Thanks, Abby.
Look forward to.
S2 (25:22):
It. Really great. Okay, uh, say hello to Andrew for me,
and we'll catch up soon.
S4 (25:26):
Thank you. Thanks very much.
S2 (25:28):
Bye for now.
S1 (25:32):
That concludes in Plain Sight for this week. Join us,
Abby Greene and Simon Chung at the same time. Next
week on Vision Australia Radio VA radio digital and online
at VA radio. You can also listen on demand by
searching for In Plain Sight wherever you get your podcasts,
or ask your smart device to play in Plain sight
(25:54):
by Vision Australia Radio. Thanks for listening.
Hi I'm Abby.
S2 (00:12):
I'm Simon, and welcome to. In Plain Sight, a program
where we highlight people who are making a positive impact
within their community and the disability sector.
S1 (00:21):
Shining a light on those who might otherwise be hidden
in plain sight.
S2 (00:26):
And we share these stories on a weekly basis. Review
here on Vision Australia Radio.
S1 (00:34):
Hi, Simon.
S2 (00:35):
How you doing, Abe?
S1 (00:36):
You know, the usual.
S2 (00:37):
Okay.
S1 (00:38):
Well, it's all ramping up.
S2 (00:40):
Yep, yep. Life ticks along. It's going so fast, I
don't even know what day it is. But recently it
was Anzac Day, and I reached out to a friend
of mine who I knew was in the Navy and
knew that his wife was in the Navy also. And
they are musicians, and that's who we are going to
speak to today. We are going to be speaking to
Kay Fairbairn, who was a musician in the Royal Australian Navy.
(01:03):
I've never been in the military. How about you, Abby?
You ever been in the military?
S1 (01:08):
I'm a bit young. Um, I was going to join
the Navy after high school. I definitely considered it. Went
through the application process, but I'm a New Zealand citizen,
so they wouldn't accept me.
S2 (01:21):
What was your motivation to want to join in the
first place?
S1 (01:23):
My dad told me I should. Yeah, okay. Looking back,
it's definitely not my thing. I don't think I'm disciplined enough,
that's for sure. And after touring the submarine that is
located in Perth, I realised I could definitely not live
on that.
S2 (01:39):
Yeah, I don't have any military experience either. My grandfather,
like a lot of grandfathers of my vintage, was in
the Second World War. However, I was in Army cadets
at school and we had Army cadets in year nine
and partway through year ten. And it was a fabulous experience. Uh,
don't know what I learnt. I did learn how to
(01:59):
make what do they call it? Hospital corners. When we
made the bed, I learnt how to iron and how
to polish boots and how to salute and march and
all that type of business. And we learned a little
bit of discipline, which was quite ironic because one day
a week we took pride in our appearance. We tucked
our long hair into our army berets, we took our
(02:19):
earrings out, and we we pretended we were soldiers and
we got to go on camps and things of that nature,
and we got to shoot guns.
S1 (02:29):
Wow.
S2 (02:30):
And I'm quite anti-gun kind of person, but we're going
back to the 1970s, and we went on Army camps
and got to shoot rifles.
S1 (02:40):
And how has this helped you in your adult life?
S2 (02:42):
It helped give me a sense of discipline in some ways,
and the importance of taking pride in my appearance and
to be part of a team. And that's what being
in the military is all about. From everything we know
about it, is so important to be part of a team.
One of the main themes that came out of the
discussion we had with Kay was no limitations.
S1 (03:05):
Yes. Don't let anything hold you back. And I know
it's easy to say that, but at the end of
the day, it's a mental battle. I think that can
be hard for many people, but you never know unless
you give it a try. And don't let anyone tell
you you can't do something.
S2 (03:18):
That's right, and we will learn while we listen to
the conversation with Kate that throughout her life and her
son and daughter's life, they were given opportunities and told
not to limit the way they think or what they
might want to achieve. And this is so important in
our community. That was the takeaway message.
S1 (03:37):
And I'd just like to say that it was a
great interview talking about family and service. So we hope
you enjoy it.
S2 (03:50):
Hi, Kay.
S3 (03:51):
Hi, Simon.
S2 (03:51):
Katie's talking to us from all the way over in
another suburb of Perth on a mobile phone. And we're
in the studio here at Vision Australia Radio in Perth.
And we'd like to welcome Kate to the airwaves today.
Some people in the audience might recognize the name Fairbairn
because Kay's husband Andrew is one of WA's most recognised
(04:12):
disability advocates, and Andrew and I worked together for people
with disabilities several years ago now. Kay, we'll get Andrew
out of the way because he's not all that important.
Can you briefly tell us about Andrew's situation and why
he has a disability?
S4 (04:26):
Sure. Andrew has a left below knee amputation and he
made the decision to have that surgery. Uh, ten years ago,
he had been battling an infection in his left foot
for on and off for ten years. The infection was
actually in the bones of the foot. Uh, we didn't
(04:48):
know initially that that's what was causing the problem. Um,
it was osteomyelitis, which is a bacterial infection. And I,
with my background in my time in the Navy, I
was a medic. So with my background in, in nursing,
I was able to look after Andrew's foot. And for
(05:09):
two years, I dressed his foot daily. Because he had
a big, nasty hole in his foot. Ooh. Um. Yeah,
it was pretty bad. And that infection was beginning to
travel through the bones. And, um, we did a lot
of research, and we decided or he decided. And I
(05:30):
supported him in his decision to have his left leg
amputated below the knee. And that decision was a very
positive decision because, um, from that time up until now,
he is very mobile. He walks very well. He actually
has a very good gait, and he currently manages to walk, uh,
(05:54):
more than 20,000 steps per day. So when he's on
the phone for work, he will pace around the backyard.
He he he's got this track that he walks. And
rather than sitting at the desk, he will pick up
his mobile phone and walk. And sometimes he can be
on the phone to his boss, who is in Melbourne
(06:16):
for 45 minutes, in which case he will walk kilometres
around the backyard. So the decision to have the amputation
was very positive. Although we've had to learn to do
a few things differently, it's been also very good for
our relationship.
S2 (06:33):
Yeah, okay. That's interesting because that was one of the
reasons I wanted to talk to you as well, to
get the perspective of a partner with somebody with a disability.
You mentioned that you have a background in nursing and
being a medic. So I'm wondering if that obviously had
some influence on how you may have reacted to the
dramatic situation that was occurring within your family?
S4 (06:56):
Yes, because of the experience with nursing, I knew that
the wounds that Andrew had on his foot wasn't healing,
despite my best efforts to look after it under the
guidance of medical team at Sir Charles Gairdner Hospital. Um,
it would heal and then it would break down because
(07:16):
he would be on his feet to work, because at
the time we had established our own support business called
Axe Access Community Training and Support. And we were supporting
several families, various disabilities, but most often, um, intellectual disability.
And we were supporting them in the community. And so
(07:39):
some days Andrew would be on his feet for a
long time, and usually with those days, the wound on
his foot would break down and we would be back
to square one.
S2 (07:49):
So that leads me to the next point that I
wanted to ask you about. You have two children, is
that right?
S4 (07:55):
Yes, I do, um, a boy and girl. They're twins.
S2 (07:58):
Twins?
S4 (07:59):
Kyle. Kyle was born seven minutes before his sister Gail.
S2 (08:04):
And how old are they?
S4 (08:05):
They turned And 34th August last year.
S2 (08:09):
Okay. Is it right that gays in the military as well.
S4 (08:12):
Gail spent ten years in the Australian Army? She was
a clerk. Um, unfortunately, she suffered a training accident and
damaged her left knee. It seems to be a recurring
theme in the family that the left leg is affected.
S2 (08:29):
Yeah. Right.
S4 (08:30):
Yeah. And so she discharged, but now she is, um,
currently studying her diploma of Auslan interpreting. He wants to
be an Auslan interpreter. She works for the Queensland Education
Department as an educational interpreter in Auslan.
S1 (08:49):
That's amazing.
S4 (08:50):
Yeah. She's working in the disability industry in her own way.
S2 (08:53):
How did you get started with being a service person?
You have family background in the military?
S4 (08:58):
My family has very limited military background. I had a
distant uncle on my paternal grandmother's side Was in the
First World War. But on Andrew's side of the family, there's.
A couple of generations. Grandfather was in the British Army.
His father served for a short time in the British
(09:19):
Army before coming to Australia. His oldest brother, Duncan, was
a communicator in the Royal Australian Navy for over 20 years,
and Andrew himself joined the Navy to be a musician
when he was 16.5 years old. And that comes to
the point where I joined the Navy after I studied
(09:41):
for six years in music at the Victorian College of
the Arts, I studied three years Diploma of Arts, music
and then in opera, and then three years Associate Diploma
in Opera and Music Theatre. My goal was to become
a performer, but, uh, I was a little bit too
young to join opera companies. So they said to me,
(10:04):
go away and get some life experience. So my idea
of going away and getting life experience was to join
the Navy. I was one of the first three females
to be recruited to join the Navy as a band member. Um,
up until 1985, the band branch was closed to women. Really? Yes.
(10:28):
It was a male dominated branch. Uh, they were encouraged
to open up the branch to females. I auditioned and
passed the audition as a vocalist, but I had to
have an instrument to be on parade and to. When
I wasn't singing with the band, I needed an instrument
(10:48):
to play. So they gave me a clarinet, and the
closest thing I'd had held in my life to a
clarinet was a recorder.
S2 (10:57):
In.
S4 (10:58):
Grade. In grade six. I love the recorder and I
could play it really well, but that was the closest
I came to playing a clarinet. They gave me 18
months to learn to play it. Unfortunately, I didn't make
the grade, but I'll backtrack a little bit. Andrew and
I met on Valentine's Day, 1986, when I was 25
(11:22):
years old. My first day when I turned up to
the Defence Force School of Music in Melbourne, and Andrew
was a sailor at the time. He was at the
School of Music himself, learning oboe.
S2 (11:36):
You told me in our notes that you were married
on the 10th of December, 1988. Is that right?
S4 (11:42):
That's correct. Yes. Yes. My 24th.
S2 (11:44):
Birthday.
S4 (11:47):
Awesome. So we have a connection there? Yeah. So, um,
and then on the 29th of August, 1990, Kyle and Gail,
our twins, were born. So that was the start of
my life as the mum of some very wonderful children
and a very loving and talented husband. Music brought us
(12:10):
together and it keeps us together. Andrew. Yeah, he's the
one legged sax player. That's right. We performed together in
a duo called Two or More.
S2 (12:18):
Yes. And you do a beautiful job. The couple of
times I've seen you play. And you're a beautiful singer,
so hats off to you. Now, we mentioned Gail there.
Tell us a little bit about Kyle.
S4 (12:28):
Okay. Well, Kyle, unfortunately, being twins, when Kyle was born,
they were breech, which meant that they weren't facing the
right direction to be born naturally. And we discovered during
my labor that the umbilical cord was wrapped around Kyle's neck. Now,
(12:48):
rather than rushing me into the operating theatre and doing
an emergency caesarean, the doctor, in his wisdom, decided that
I would continue to give birth naturally. He didn't think
that the umbilical cord was too tight around his He's
Nick so I, I had them naturally. As soon as
(13:12):
Kyle was out, Gail flipped herself around and she came out.
But Kyle came out. He was a tiny bit cold, um,
a little bit blue. He was a tiny bit oxygen starved. Andrew,
I have no recollection of this because I was busy. Yes,
I had another baby to give birth to, but Andrew
(13:34):
said that there was a little huddle of, um, nurse
and doctor over Kyle, and it took a little, probably
two minutes or so for him to take his first
breath unaided. Um, it wasn't until Kyle was five years
old and he was at school. The school nurse discovered
that he had impairments. Um, they were significantly to do
(13:59):
with his fine motor skills and gross motor skills. So
he he couldn't catch a ball properly. He couldn't pick
up things properly. So we went through some testing and
found that Kyle had intellectual disability. Uh, was diagnosed with
global developmental delay at the age of six years old.
S2 (14:18):
Say that again. Global development.
S4 (14:21):
Global developmental delay.
S2 (14:23):
Okay. What does that mean in layman's terms?
S4 (14:26):
In layman's terms, basically, that Kyle didn't reach his milestones
as a baby, as a young person, the same as
anyone born at the same time. So when Kyle was
at pre-primary, his learning level more at a three year
old level. Um, so and as his sister progressed normally,
(14:50):
then Kyle was delayed in his progression.
S2 (14:53):
Moving ahead a little bit. Does Kyle have any physical impairments?
S4 (14:57):
No physical impairments? No. He's, um, a strong, healthy, fit
young man. He actually operates his own micro-enterprise. It's called
Kyle's coffee cut.
S3 (15:08):
Tell us a little bit about that.
S2 (15:10):
I find that really interesting. I think it's a really
great initiative. Tell us from the beginning how did that
enterprise get up and running?
S4 (15:16):
The idea was first proposed by his local area coordinator
from Disability Services Commission right back when Kyle was 13
years old. So he was actually just starting high school.
And he's lack suggested that he might like because he
was he loved serving people. All of the work experience
(15:41):
that he did was to do with serving people. Um,
he even worked in a cafe for 3 or 4
years post high school. And that's where his love of
making coffee was fostered. But let's skip forward to 2020.
During the pandemic, when everything was closing down around us.
(16:01):
It was a good time for us because Valued Lives
had their Microenterprise prize program was up and running, being
funded by the Ndia and um, two people who were
at valued lives at the time, Natasha Anderson and Marcus Carney,
helped us to build Kyle's business plan.
S2 (16:22):
Okay.
S4 (16:24):
That's where we came upon Kyle's coffee cart, and they
helped us to build the plan and then to apply
for a grant from 1 to 1 organization. But his
very first service of Kyle's coffee cart happened to be
at the International Day of People with disability on the
3rd of December 2020 at um, the East East Perth
(16:49):
Football Club in Leederville.
S2 (16:51):
Okay, so that's carts with a K.
S4 (16:54):
Cart with a K. Yeah. When we were talking about
the idea of the name for him, someone suggested Kyle's
coffee with a K and we said no, that would
make it KKK. And we didn't think that was a
very good.
S1 (17:07):
Oh, no. Where is his car located day to day.
S4 (17:12):
We purchased a cart from Queensland and had it transported
to Perth. Purchased that in October 2020. And Andrew said
to Kyle, mate, you make $10,000 using this cart and
I will buy you a mobile coffee van. So from
October 2020, let's forward to March 2023. And we purchased
(17:36):
a second hand mobile van for him. And so now
his van operates five days a week during the school term.
And it currently visits eight schools supplying staff and families
with good quality coffee and other hot drinks and cold drinks.
And he does events on weekends, approximately one a month.
S2 (17:58):
So just to skip forward a little bit because time
is running away from us. So given Kyle's impairment being
intellectual disability, what areas of support does he need and
how does it work?
S4 (18:08):
Okay. He currently has three support workers and they assist
him in all of the administration of running the business.
They support him. He has his driver's license. He does
drive the van, the local areas where he's very familiar
on the roads that he's very familiar. But if he
has to drive into the city or drive long distances, uh,
(18:31):
where he's not familiar, then they will drive. He has
had support from one of his support workers. She's been
with him from the start, and she set up a
lot of documents for him and to help him. So
there are checklists and there are templates on on his computer.
He has a booking form where expressions of interest from
(18:55):
various organizations, they might come. He's got a web page
where his booking form is there. So expressions of interest
for him to book him come from there or Facebook page.
We have a number of Organizations who book him on
an ongoing basis. Some of the schools booking for their
sports carnivals and other small events that his support workers
(19:19):
helping with ordering his stock.
S2 (19:22):
So just to sum up. Yeah, he gets really great
support there. I just wanted to ask you, K, what
would you say to other people in a similar situation?
Mums and dads listening to or young people who are thinking,
hang on, I might have a intellectual disability, I can
get a driver's license, I could get a business because
(19:42):
they must be big hurdles. And I must admit my
naivety that I didn't know he had a driver's license
for one. What do you say to people who are
firstly are ignorant like me? Or secondly, might be wanting
to get themselves or their their young person into a
micro-business of some sort?
S4 (20:01):
When Kyle started at high school, very, very wise principal
said to Andrew and me, she said, don't put limitations
on your tiles. It may take him her longer to
get where you want, where they want to be, but
don't ever put limitations on them. Let them try. Let
(20:23):
give them the support they need and let them try.
And that's why it took quite a long time to
get his driver's license. And he still needs support. He
still has the support of his like, you know, the team.
They sit with him and they help him keep his
focus and they help him with situations arise where he
might get a little bit flustered, but they are there
(20:46):
to assist him. And I say that statement, don't put
limitations on your child. If they have an interest, a
burning interest. I've seen some wonderful businesses. Even before Kyle started.
We were supported by our local area coordination team at
Disability Services Commission, and they showed us pictures and and
(21:09):
the And the story of a young man with intellectual
disability who had his own lawn mowing service. And this
was before Microenterprises even became a thing. And I love
going to the market days and events where there are
I mean, you see them people with with all of
their faculties and no disability. They're running their craft markets
(21:31):
and they're selling their wares. Why can't people with disability
be among those at those markets? And it's it's wonderful.
S2 (21:40):
My takeaway from what you've been saying this whole time
since we started this conversation, Kate, is don't put limitations
on on who you are and how you think and
what you want to do. That's fabulous.
S4 (21:52):
Yeah, definitely. And when you hear I get upset, sometimes
people will say to me, oh, I'm so sorry that
you have a son with an intellectual disability. Oh, I'm
so sorry. You have a husband with an amputation. I say,
don't be sorry for me. My family, we have a
strong family and my husband and my son and my daughter,
(22:14):
they are very skilled in what they do and I
love them to bits and I support them. I will
speak about them for as long as someone will listen.
S2 (22:24):
I feel sorry for you because you must get left
behind sometimes because of let's. Let's not forget the woman
behind the story or in front of the story as well.
You know.
S4 (22:37):
I have my own outline. Apart from singing with Andrew,
I sing with the Western Australian Symphony Orchestra chorus. And
I love singing with the chorus. The orchestra and I
also help out occasionally at school with young kids at
primary school where I work. Just recently, I stepped in
for the music teacher to take the choir for our
(22:59):
Harmony day assembly. So I have my moments to shine.
S2 (23:04):
That's great. Well, that's what we're all about here on
this program, is to shine a light on people who
otherwise would be hidden in plain sight. And that's when
I thought about talking to you. That's what I wanted
to do, was because we often see that the mums
and the wives and the and the people behind the
scenes in this can be not in the spotlight. And
(23:25):
we all know that Andrew doesn't need to be in
the spotlight. Um, and Carl puts himself in the spotlight
because of he's got a job in the public there,
and he likes to chat to people as well. So
well done to you, K. And you're obviously not a
shy person because you're a singer and you're a performer.
And um, so that must help as well.
S4 (23:45):
Definitely. Yeah. And and I'm, I'm very proud of my
little family and everything that we achieve. We may not
be famous, famous, but we do. Well.
S2 (23:57):
Yes. Well, we hope to make you more famous. K,
are you and Andrew got any music performances coming up?
S4 (24:04):
Made some requests from various organizations to have us come
to perform. We don't we don't have a regular performance location. But, um,
we do like to support disability organizations and other commercial
organizations when they have conferences and things like that.
S2 (24:24):
And remind me again, what's the name of your little group?
S4 (24:27):
Our duo is called two or more.
S2 (24:29):
Two or more. And what about the other choruses that
you were just telling us about? You got any of
those coming up soon?
S4 (24:34):
Western Australian Symphony Orchestra Chorus will be performing in June,
I believe. June. We've got. Yeah, at Winthrop Hall at
University of WA.
S2 (24:45):
Oh, lovely. Let's look out for that.
S4 (24:47):
Yeah. It's, um, a program called Poulenc's Gloria.
S2 (24:53):
Say that again, please. Program called.
S4 (24:55):
Poulenc's Gloria. Poulenc being a French composer. And the piece
that he wrote was Gloria.
S2 (25:03):
Well, we'll have to finish this conversation now. Kay, Fabian,
thank you very much for talking with me. It's been
a delight. It's been really good fun and you've had
such a full and interesting life. So I'd like to
say thank you and, uh, look forward to speaking to
you another time.
S4 (25:18):
Thanks for having me on your program, Simon. Thanks, Abby.
Look forward to.
S2 (25:22):
It. Really great. Okay, uh, say hello to Andrew for me,
and we'll catch up soon.
S4 (25:26):
Thank you. Thanks very much.
S2 (25:28):
Bye for now.
S1 (25:32):
That concludes in Plain Sight for this week. Join us,
Abby Greene and Simon Chung at the same time. Next
week on Vision Australia Radio VA radio digital and online
at VA radio. You can also listen on demand by
searching for In Plain Sight wherever you get your podcasts,
or ask your smart device to play in Plain sight
(25:54):
by Vision Australia Radio. Thanks for listening.
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