September 16, 2025 • 27 mins
Join us as we speak with Ethan Kavanagh, the creator of podcast 'The Perth Tourist'. This unique innovative podcast is designed to provide an immersive audio described tour of well-known Perth landmarks and locations. Both entertaining and informative, 'The Perth Tourist' is really great and accessible for everyone, especially people who are blind or have low vision.
In the past, Ethan, with the support of Vision Australia Radio and in consultation with members of the local blind community, developed three podcast episodes. He is now planning to create an ongoing series to further explore Perth.
Ethan has created a Kickstarter campaign (live until 10 October) to raise funds to produce the new episodes. Check it out here on Kickstarter, and please support it if you can!
Support Vision Australia Radio: https://www.visionaustralia.org/donate
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:17):
Hello, I'm Simon Chong and welcome to In Plain Sight,
a program where we highlight people who are making a
difference and impact within the disability sector and their community.
We shine a light on those who otherwise would be
hidden in plain sight, and it's a pleasure to bring
you these programmes on a weekly basis here on Vision
Australia Radio.
S2 (00:37):
Hello and welcome to the program. How are you this week, Simon?
S1 (00:41):
I'm really well. Thanks, Andrew. And as I said previously
on another program, I'm really enjoying the change of seasons.
But the change of seasons can be quite unpredictable, can't they, Andrew?
S2 (00:52):
Well they can, yes. It was very wet coming into
the studio today. So spring has sprung, as you said,
on the program last week.
S1 (01:00):
That's right. Start off with I wanted to make acknowledgements,
a bit of indulgence here to do with the program.
Some of you might have heard through my social media
that we here at In Plain Sight have been nominated
for an award.
S2 (01:17):
It's the Community Broadcasting Association of Australia awards, and they
have those every year. Their annual conference is in Hobart
later this year, and the awards are going to be
announced on the 25th of October. So we've been nominated
for the best new program, which is a big thrill
and particularly for me, I've only just recently joined this program,
(01:37):
so I'm very honoured that we've been nominated for this,
but also as a as a relative newbie to the program,
it's it's very exciting.
S1 (01:46):
Yes, it is. And I want to take this opportunity
to formally acknowledge and thank everyone that's had something to
do with this program leading up to where we are now.
And of course, firstly, I'd like to mention Abby Green,
who is my co-host and partner on the program. For
a long time and without her, I couldn't have got
as far as I have with this program. And I'd
(02:07):
like to acknowledge her contribution to the program and also
like to thank Gemma and Bridget from Vision Australia Radio,
who have supported me in this program from the start,
and especially Gemma, who has helped us along the way
for so much of what we've put to air. I'd
also like to thank and acknowledge all my friends and
family who have supported me and the program for the duration,
(02:31):
and without their support and their encouragement, I wouldn't have
been able to continue. So I'd like to thank them.
And whilst I'm in the mood for thanking and giving tributes,
as you might be aware, it's AFL football finals season,
which reminded me of one of my greatest football memories,
(02:52):
which was going to the AFL Grand final to watch
my team. Fremantle Dockers play in the AFL Grand Final
in 2013, and one of the people I went to
the grand final with was Mark Easton. Now, Mark passed
away some years ago, and I think that was the
last time I saw Mark, and I just wanted to
acknowledge him and pay tribute to him. He was a
(03:13):
great friend, a great musician and a wonderful fellow to
be around. And one of the other people I was
with at that same grand final was a really great
friend of mine, one of my best friends and best
friends to many people, and the motivation to why I'm
doing what I'm doing here on Vision Australia Radio. And
his name was David Regan. He passed away in November
(03:34):
2016 and I love him and I love his family,
and I just wanted to thank him and his contribution
to my life and his contribution to everyone that he
was involved with. And I just want to take this
time out to make mention of him once again on
this program. And because he is one of the motivations
for doing this show. So thanks, Tiger. And uh, over
(03:56):
to you, Andrew. What have we got coming up this week?
S2 (03:58):
Our guest on the program this week is Ethan Kavanagh,
who developed The Tourist with Vision Australia Radio a few
years ago, and at the time, he actually won the
Community Broadcaster's Award for excellence in Creative Audio. So it's
going to be a very interesting chat coming up with Ethan.
S1 (04:16):
It was a great chat and great to work alongside
people who are also involved in the community broadcasting arena.
We'd like to support other community radio stations here at
Vision Australia Radio because we're all in the same big family.
So looking forward to what Ethan's got to say coming
up now. This week our special guest is Ethan Cavanagh,
(04:40):
and Ethan is a podcaster. Hopefully people will be able
to listen to our podcast and his podcast. There's plenty
of podcasts to choose from, and we'd like to welcome
Ethan to the studio now, and he'll tell us all
about what he's up to. Hi, Ethan.
S3 (04:52):
How are you going, mate?
S1 (04:53):
I'm going. Well, now, firstly, the title of your podcast
is called Perth Tourist. Is that.
S3 (04:59):
Right? Yeah, the Perth tourist. Um, it was originally the tourist.
It's played on Vision Australia radio before. Um, but I've
sort of reached out to them again after all these
years and thought we'd try and repackage it since I
made The Tourist, there's a Stan original TV show about, um,
some action hero or something. Well, we can't call it that,
so we'll call it the Perth Tourist and make it
(05:20):
really wa focused, which is. Which is really cool. Yeah.
S1 (05:23):
Um, and that's what we're all about here in the
Vision Australia radio studios in Perth. I'm not very parochial
most of the time apart from my football, but we
like to showcase what's going on here in Western Australia.
And this program gets aired all across Australia and it's
podcast as well. So we go across the world. So
let's shine a light on what's going on in Perth. Now,
(05:45):
you just mentioned that you did some time with Vision
Australia yourself. Tell us about how and why you started
with Vision Australia.
S3 (05:53):
So I was a radio science student at Murdoch University,
and I got good enough grades to get out of
the research units that nobody wants to do. So they
offered us a professional work placement instead. And I went, oh, beauty. Um, my, uh,
unit coordinator at the time said, we've got a few
choices here you could pick, you know, maybe one of
the commercial radio stations, you know, which, you know, could
(06:14):
do an internship. It might lead to a job. Um,
or we have this really close tie with Vision Australia, and,
I don't know, my gut was sort of saying, I'm
really keen to try something new. Um, there's plenty of
time to go and try and find work or, you know,
build a career. But Vision Australia is something where I
feel like, um, I don't know, it was just sort
of something that really interested me. So I went there and,
(06:35):
you know, not being part of the blind, low vision
community at all. Um, and they just welcomed me with
open arms and supported me and, um, really just sort
of pitched this idea, uh, you know, for the tourists
in its early stages. And I just lit up. I
was like, that's that's all I want to do. So
we fleshed it out, um, and made this really awesome
three part series. And I really give that project so
(06:58):
much credit for where I am today. And, you know,
the sort of projects that I love working on and,
you know, so much so that after all this time,
I wanted to try and bring it back in the
way that I have now.
S1 (07:10):
So what do you think warmed you towards working with
Vision Australia Radio?
S3 (07:15):
I guess when I was doing the degree at Murdoch,
it was very community radio focused. Um, so it's not
that we weren't getting experience with commercial radio. It's just
we really like the values of, you know, a community
based projects and making things like that. And I really
sort of gravitated to that at the time. Um, particularly,
(07:37):
you know, the fact that this is a community radio
station and it was offering to a community that I
hadn't been a part of or didn't know anything about.
And I thought, well, you know what? Let's let's try
this and see where it takes us. And, you know,
it took us somewhere completely unpredictable.
S1 (07:53):
So Vision Australia approached you with the idea of doing
the Perth tourist.
S3 (07:57):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I'll never take credit for this
as something, um, that I, you know, own or created
off my own bat. I would have never have made
this without the understanding of the sort of, um, you know, content, um,
that the blind and low vision community have in terms
of like, um, you know, audio descriptions, for example, which
is a big part of this podcast. And, you know,
(08:17):
just having some having one of the volunteers pitch it
to us as wouldn't it be great if we did
audio tours? Because obviously you can go to museums and
whatnot and get, um, you know, guided content when you're there. Um,
and why don't we sort of, sort of take that
idea and put it into a different format and, oh,
I it just clicked straight away and I thought, that's,
that's exactly what I want to make.
S1 (08:37):
So we better tell everyone what the Perth tourist is.
The premise. I've listened to the episodes that are now
available on the major streaming platforms and they're fabulous. Really great.
I think you achieved what you were hoping to achieve.
They hit the mark. You have created a really great product.
I really enjoy it and I'm looking forward to finding
out more about what you've got planned in the future,
(08:58):
which we'll talk about in a sec. But tell us
the basic outline and the premise of what the Perth
tourist is and how it got started, and what you
were hoping to do in those early days.
S3 (09:10):
I think the most succinct way I've found to describe
it is, um, audio described walking tours of, you know,
iconic locations around Perth or WA. Um, so really logistically,
the best way to sort of explain it in detail
is how I produce it. You know, I go to
these places like the Freo prison or the Maritime Museum
or Sci-tech. They're the episodes available now. We mic up
(09:33):
a tour guide. I walk around with this giant box
on me that has all the lapel mic receivers. I
go and record all the stereo sounds and really capture
what it's like to go on that tour. And then
on top of that, I do audio description, um, in,
you know, a maybe a, a modest sense in the word.
It's sort of describing what I experienced on the tour
(09:56):
as the person going on it, as opposed to just
the tour guide, you know. So it's trying to immerse it,
trying to make it immersive in a way that, um,
makes it more accessible than simply just going on the tour.
S1 (10:07):
When you listen to it, it does feel quite immersive,
a bit like what people would imagine that term to be.
And it is, uh, like a live experience of being
on the tour. I like how you've incorporated, especially being
a bit of a sound nerd myself, incorporated the the
natural sounds of the environment because you're walking through the
tour and, um, I'm glad you told me that you
(10:29):
put a lapel mic on the tour guide. So that
explains why the quality is so good when you're listening
to the guide. So they were up for that?
S3 (10:39):
Yeah. Which was really great. So, um, you know, at
that point it hadn't been made yet. So to get, um,
the Frio Prison, for example, which was episode one to go. Yeah, absolutely.
And have everything fit so well was was truly awesome. Um,
so we miked up the tour guide. It was great.
They just did their thing, you know, because those tour
guides are running off muscle memory. They're doing that tour
(11:00):
every day. That first episode, funnily enough, I thought I
was really going to have to be more of a character.
So in the first, maybe 5 to 10 minutes of
that tour, I was really chiming in quite a lot,
trying to be quippy or ask a lot of questions.
And then I just realized how much of an expert
that tour guide was. I was like, okay, the best
way for me to do this is to shut up. Yeah.
(11:21):
So I did that and, um, let them do their thing.
And that worked really, really well. Um, and my job
was to just capture that experience. So I was good
that you really appreciated the stereo sounds, because, um, that's
the whole part of this audio thing. I know it's
a bit of a buzzword immersion and theater of the
mind and that kind of stuff. But I think to
(11:41):
really dig down into that, like that's the reason I
captured those sounds is because you can get so much
more information, I guess subconsciously with those sounds. So you
can get an idea of how big a room is
with the reverb, um, the texture of how something might
feel based on the sound that it makes.
S1 (11:58):
It's what they call in your business. Soundscapes.
S3 (12:00):
Yes. Exactly. Yeah. So it's not just those atmospheric sounds
which are kind of infer where you are, but the
Frio Prison was really good for those really direct sound
effects like, um, those big, massive, heavy Jared doors, um, the,
the keys jangling, all those kind of things. Um, really
give you an idea of how, how much distance there
(12:22):
was between you and the outside world as a, as
a prisoner, obviously. Yeah.
S1 (12:26):
Yeah. I have experienced a few versions of soundscapes or
immersive sound creations where you have that real surround sound,
3D sound experience. And before you go on, they say
wear headphones because it's going to be all around you.
It's it's a fascinating and brilliant experience. I highly recommend
(12:47):
searching some of these projects out that you can find
on the internet and so on. And so moving on
to the future now, Ethan, what what are your plans ahead.
And I believe that you've got a fundraising campaign to
try to help you establish yourself so you can do
more of these fantastic podcasts.
S3 (13:04):
Like I said, I made those first three episodes quite
a while ago, and I've always tried in some way,
shape or form to bring it back. What ends up happening, though,
is because I'm doing it essentially with my own time
and money, and because it's such an extensive project, I've
always struggled to do it, you know, quote unquote, for free.
(13:24):
So I thought, well, why don't I try and, um,
have a crack at getting this thing funded? So I've
started a Kickstarter campaign. Um, we're nearly at the halfway mark,
which is fantastic, which means that, you know, instead of, um,
you know, being funded through my usual client work, you know,
editing podcasts or making stuff. There's a chance I could
get paid to do this project that I'm really proud of. So, yeah,
(13:48):
if we're being honest, I'm probably going to be doing
it for I am essentially undercharging. I suppose if the
funds are successful because it's not so much about the money.
It's more about if this campaign is successful. It represents
that there's a group of people that really are keen
on this. And it's another, you know, sample in, you know,
trying to find other ways to fund it. Yeah. So
(14:09):
so tell.
S1 (14:09):
Us about the Kickstarter campaign and how how to find
that we will put this information in the podcast description.
If you're listening on the radio, please get your writing
tools out, get the brailler down and write. Write it
all out. So tell us, Ethan, how do we find
out about the Kickstarter campaign and how do people how
(14:29):
can people contribute?
S3 (14:31):
Well, one of the easiest ways you can do is
Google the Perth Tourist Kickstarter. It should be the first
option that comes up. I also have links in my
social media, so if you search noise pilot up on
Instagram or TikTok, uh, there'll be links you can follow
to that page as well. There's definitely ways to go
and access that online.
S1 (14:50):
You just mentioned your business that you have called Noise Pilot.
Tell us a bit about that. How does that work
and what is it?
S3 (14:57):
So I used to work in radio for quite a while,
doing sound production and sound design and kind of decided,
why don't I try and have a pint and, um,
see if I can, you know, launch my own projects
and help other independent creators. So I went out on
my own to essentially build podcasts and help other people
build content and stuff like that. And I think noise
(15:17):
pilot for me right now is really focus on, like
you said yourself, um, wha stories and wha creators and
things like that because, um, I guess it feels like
to me, there's a big expectation that a lot of
our media in Australia comes from over east. There's a
lot of creators in Sydney and Melbourne and, you know,
that's kind of like our Hollywood. You have to go
(15:39):
over there to make it. And I'm kind of like, well,
I think we tell a really good story over here. Yes.
And I'd love to get some more WA representation. So
that's that's what it's all about. And it's also just
about being really inclusive and positive. The Perth tourist is
one for that for sure that I really highlight, but
then also do a mindfulness and meditation podcast as well
to make that, um, not so intimidating to people. Noise
(16:01):
pilots a lot of things.
S1 (16:03):
I really want to, um, support that. I do encourage
people to do their creative stuff and to keep things local,
as they say. And also people listen to this program
and think, oh wow, that sounds really great. I could
do that. And there is also a joke that everyone's
got a podcast, and there are a lot of people
(16:23):
doing podcasts, and there's a lot of poor ones, and
it takes time and it takes expertise to polish these
programs up to be broadcastable. So they're not just two
people with no skills talking on air. And I really
appreciate that, that you you're trying to help people out
(16:45):
to get get them up and running to tell their stories.
S3 (16:48):
Yeah. It is really funny that you say that as
well because, um, I guess when people say, what do
you do for work? And I say, oh, I make podcasts,
people will go, oh, not another one, another. Like making podcasts.
They roll their eyes. Um, and I try to say, well, look,
I'm trying to buck the trend of that. It's not just, um,
you know, going on there and talking for the sake
of it. Um, it's going on there and trying to
come up with really good ideas that, you know, include
(17:10):
people and make them feel better. And I really think
that helping other people create themselves is an inclusive and
positive act as well. So, you know, that's what I
guess is a really big part of what I'm trying
to do here. And, you know, experimenting on where the
ability to keep me, um, my bills paid is in that. Yeah.
S1 (17:29):
Yeah, sure.
S2 (17:33):
On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to In Plain Sight
with Simon Chong and me, Andrew Williams. Our guest this
week is Ethan Kavanagh, who, in association with Vision Australia Radio,
developed The Tourist a few years back and is now
relaunching the program as The Perth tourist. And now it's
back to Simon and Ethan.
S1 (17:56):
Do you film your podcasts?
S3 (17:58):
That's a really good question. There are some that I
do because I think at the moment visuals are a
really big part of this. It's where the industry is headed.
People have asked me if they would, you know, be
keen on me filming The Tourist. Um, and I say
to them, no, I'd say if you really want to
get a visual tourist thing, go watch getaway. Yeah, I
mean that. I wouldn't say it so bluntly. I'd be
(18:19):
more critical and say, look, this is, um, an audio first, um,
podcast for a reason, because I want to include the
blind and low vision community that it was created for.
And I would argue that, um, not only does it
keep the costs down to just do audio, but it
also is far more immersive and can be accessed in
so many more different places. The only challenge is, of course,
(18:41):
trying to, um, promote it in a visual place, but
I'm quite willing to take on that responsibility and that
challenge to keep. To preserve what this Psalm is supposed
to be.
S1 (18:51):
I do find chat podcasts filmed that you can find
on YouTube or wherever. Quite odd. There's just people sitting
in a studio like this talking. Admittedly, most of the
ones I've seen on YouTube are famous people, and people
like watching famous people do everything. But podcasts, by their nature,
are supposed to be a listening format.
S3 (19:12):
I guess.
S1 (19:12):
But also I'm vision impaired, so I don't care what's
going on on the screen.
S3 (19:16):
So I'd probably, you know, push. I would agree with
you in the fact that, you know, you can go
on to a Spotify or a feed or something like that,
and you scroll and it's the same shot. It's one
it's a person with headphones behind a mic and you
constantly see that same shot. So, you know, I can
see exactly why you would think that. Um, I quite
like building, um, you know, podcasts with visuals in mind,
(19:37):
but I'm thinking, all right, what can I do? That's
that's not that. Or what would be the purpose of
making it visual? Um, but, you know, for the most part,
I think I can execute on a product that is
just audio only and can include people. The only challenge is,
is how do you, um, show it to people on
places where visual comes first? And that's that's a fun challenge,
(19:58):
but it's a hard one.
S1 (20:00):
So, Ethan, what we might do now is just play
a little short grab of one of your episodes that
you are hoping to establish. Now, what's the piece that
we're going to listen to now?
S3 (20:12):
Okay, so this is when, um, on the Frio Prison,
we enter the room, the gallows, um, where, you know,
people were hanged to death. Um, and the tour guide
at this point just got into a really deep story, um,
and really takes us through how that process happened. I
think it works really well because it's not just a room,
(20:33):
is it? There's so many things that I was able
to describe and really set the tone for. So I
really this is my favorite part of okay of the
tour for sure. Through the door and up a small
step we enter the gallows. A dark room with timber floors.
A metal railing in the middle of the room separates
(20:54):
us from a large iron lever, operating a trapdoor in
the floor on the other side of the railing, which
shows a room with stone walls beneath. A large wooden
beam is suspended over the hole in the floor, with
a hangman's noose draped over it, dangling over the trapdoor.
S4 (21:11):
Executioner drops the rope over his head in the same movement.
He slams that across the trapdoor, crashes after it. There
were pigeons up on the roof. The pigeons took off
and everybody knew out in the yards, waiting silently that
the execution had taken place.
S1 (21:32):
Well, thanks for that, Ethan. Yeah. Wow, Ethan, that was fantastic.
Really enjoyed listening to that.
S3 (21:37):
Yeah, I'd love to sort of explain one of the
interesting parts in this. Yeah. You heard you would have
heard a lever crash. Um, when you listen to that, that, uh,
wasn't something that I added in in post. That was
the tour guide doing that in one motion during the speech. Um,
and when the tour guide did that, my jaw was like,
(21:59):
on the ground, I was speechless. Um, there's a bit
that didn't make it into the episode, but then she
goes and says, uh, can I get some feedback? Cos
you're not really saying much, uh, how are we doing?
And I was just gobsmacked at how compelling this story
was and how freaked out we were. And I went,
oh yeah, great. That's perfect. Let's keep going.
S1 (22:17):
And whilst you're listening to this, people, maybe you could
contact me. And, uh, the program, our email is in
plain sight at Vision Australia and send us some ideas
of where you'd like the Perth tourists to go and
how you would like the audio to describe tours to
be held. We've talked about audio description on this program
(22:40):
a few times, and I've been watching a lot of
ABC TV, and one of the things they're doing slightly
wrong on the audio description at the current time is
they're talking too much. They are saying what the person
is about has just said. And I know what was
said because I can hear that we can hear. Or
(23:01):
they're saying, and Samantha just slammed the door. I know
Samantha just slammed the door because I heard the door slam.
Sometimes audio description should be less is best.
S3 (23:11):
Mhm. I really because we had a chat before I
came in here about the philosophy behind audio description. And
it is fascinating to me because look I'm not an
experienced audio describer. I only know a very small amount.
And I can be still very critical of those first
three episodes of how I approached it and maybe how
I plan to, um, in upcoming episodes as well. So
(23:31):
I really do think a lot of how I guess
I can do it that and what my relationship is
to that, you know, form of communication. My, um, question
would be in that regard is I think I was too, um,
objective when I did it all those years ago. I'd like, um,
to sort of incorporate how I describe my personal experience
as another, you know, factor in, in.
S1 (23:54):
Some people want emotion in the audio description, and some
people want it to be dry so they can feel
the emotion themselves. It's a bit like when people read
audio books. Some people sort of act them to a degree,
and some people read when. When I first started listening
(24:15):
to audio books, it was designed to be read in
a not a monotone, but a neutral tone, so that
the person listening can feel the emotion and create the
imagery inside their head themselves without it being interpreted for them.
S3 (24:30):
I think there's definitely a balance, isn't there? Like it's, um,
what can you assume that the audience can already gather?
And what benefit is there to you to adding emotion.
I think a perfect example is when we went on
that free prison tour, the first time I did it,
you know, all those years ago we went to the, um,
the whipping post and I said it was and I
(24:51):
said it was three meters tall. And I was like, well,
that's well and good, but I don't even know what
three meters looks like. It would be more interesting to
say we went to this whipping post and it was really,
really tall and quite intimidating looking. And that I think is, um,
adding color in terms of describing my other senses other
(25:11):
than just saying, oh, that thing is three meters tall.
S1 (25:14):
So we've got to move on a little bit because
time's running out and I'm probably getting a little bit
too involved because I'm such a nerd and.
S3 (25:20):
You got to stop me as well. Um.
S1 (25:23):
I love this stuff. But tell us again. So it's
a Kickstarter program, and you just look that up on
the Kickstarter.
S3 (25:29):
Yeah.
S1 (25:30):
And when will that run till?
S3 (25:31):
Uh, the final day is October 10th.
S1 (25:34):
So the three programs that are all available, one of
the topics that you've done on the tour so far?
S3 (25:40):
Yep. So we've done the Fremantle Prison. We've done the
Maritime Museum. I really like that one because we do
the submarine tour that's there. Yeah. And then we do
sci tech as well. I think that one's really good
for our kids, because it's got a puppet show in
the middle of it.
S1 (25:52):
Yeah, yeah. What's your next adventure, do you think?
S3 (25:56):
Look, we do have a few places that are lined up.
The great news is, is because this has already been
made and we've got something to show to people. I
think a lot of the places that I've reached out
to are really excited to work with us. I can't
say too much too far, because I guess the problem
with the Kickstarter is the challenge, I should say, is
that it's all or nothing. So if we don't meet
our funds, everyone who pitched in gets refunded. So there's
(26:20):
a lot on the line. Yeah, and I know that
as soon as this kicks over, we're straight into making content,
which is really exciting.
S1 (26:26):
And well, I hope that you get the Kickstarter program
up and running, and I hope it all works out
for you, because for one, I'm really keen to see
this type of project, um, available and coming out of
Western Australia and are really keen to find out more
about the Perth tourist. And I support you all the way.
And thanks for coming in and talking with us and
(26:48):
sharing some of your background and your knowledge with us today, Ethan.
S3 (26:51):
Well, thank you so much mate. It was a great chat.
Thanks for having us.
S1 (26:53):
Well, that's all for this week, folks. See you next
time and bye for now. Cheers.
S2 (27:07):
That concludes in Plain Sight for this week. Join us
at the same time next week on Vision Australia Radio,
VA radio digital and online at VOA radio. You can
also listen on demand by searching for In Plain Sight
by Vision Australia Radio. Wherever you get your podcasts, or
ask your smart device to play in Plain sight by
(27:29):
Vision Australia Radio. Thanks for listening.
S5 (27:32):
Thank you.
Hello, I'm Simon Chong and welcome to In Plain Sight,
a program where we highlight people who are making a
difference and impact within the disability sector and their community.
We shine a light on those who otherwise would be
hidden in plain sight, and it's a pleasure to bring
you these programmes on a weekly basis here on Vision
Australia Radio.
S2 (00:37):
Hello and welcome to the program. How are you this week, Simon?
S1 (00:41):
I'm really well. Thanks, Andrew. And as I said previously
on another program, I'm really enjoying the change of seasons.
But the change of seasons can be quite unpredictable, can't they, Andrew?
S2 (00:52):
Well they can, yes. It was very wet coming into
the studio today. So spring has sprung, as you said,
on the program last week.
S1 (01:00):
That's right. Start off with I wanted to make acknowledgements,
a bit of indulgence here to do with the program.
Some of you might have heard through my social media
that we here at In Plain Sight have been nominated
for an award.
S2 (01:17):
It's the Community Broadcasting Association of Australia awards, and they
have those every year. Their annual conference is in Hobart
later this year, and the awards are going to be
announced on the 25th of October. So we've been nominated
for the best new program, which is a big thrill
and particularly for me, I've only just recently joined this program,
(01:37):
so I'm very honoured that we've been nominated for this,
but also as a as a relative newbie to the program,
it's it's very exciting.
S1 (01:46):
Yes, it is. And I want to take this opportunity
to formally acknowledge and thank everyone that's had something to
do with this program leading up to where we are now.
And of course, firstly, I'd like to mention Abby Green,
who is my co-host and partner on the program. For
a long time and without her, I couldn't have got
as far as I have with this program. And I'd
(02:07):
like to acknowledge her contribution to the program and also
like to thank Gemma and Bridget from Vision Australia Radio,
who have supported me in this program from the start,
and especially Gemma, who has helped us along the way
for so much of what we've put to air. I'd
also like to thank and acknowledge all my friends and
family who have supported me and the program for the duration,
(02:31):
and without their support and their encouragement, I wouldn't have
been able to continue. So I'd like to thank them.
And whilst I'm in the mood for thanking and giving tributes,
as you might be aware, it's AFL football finals season,
which reminded me of one of my greatest football memories,
(02:52):
which was going to the AFL Grand final to watch
my team. Fremantle Dockers play in the AFL Grand Final
in 2013, and one of the people I went to
the grand final with was Mark Easton. Now, Mark passed
away some years ago, and I think that was the
last time I saw Mark, and I just wanted to
acknowledge him and pay tribute to him. He was a
(03:13):
great friend, a great musician and a wonderful fellow to
be around. And one of the other people I was
with at that same grand final was a really great
friend of mine, one of my best friends and best
friends to many people, and the motivation to why I'm
doing what I'm doing here on Vision Australia Radio. And
his name was David Regan. He passed away in November
(03:34):
2016 and I love him and I love his family,
and I just wanted to thank him and his contribution
to my life and his contribution to everyone that he
was involved with. And I just want to take this
time out to make mention of him once again on
this program. And because he is one of the motivations
for doing this show. So thanks, Tiger. And uh, over
(03:56):
to you, Andrew. What have we got coming up this week?
S2 (03:58):
Our guest on the program this week is Ethan Kavanagh,
who developed The Tourist with Vision Australia Radio a few
years ago, and at the time, he actually won the
Community Broadcaster's Award for excellence in Creative Audio. So it's
going to be a very interesting chat coming up with Ethan.
S1 (04:16):
It was a great chat and great to work alongside
people who are also involved in the community broadcasting arena.
We'd like to support other community radio stations here at
Vision Australia Radio because we're all in the same big family.
So looking forward to what Ethan's got to say coming
up now. This week our special guest is Ethan Cavanagh,
(04:40):
and Ethan is a podcaster. Hopefully people will be able
to listen to our podcast and his podcast. There's plenty
of podcasts to choose from, and we'd like to welcome
Ethan to the studio now, and he'll tell us all
about what he's up to. Hi, Ethan.
S3 (04:52):
How are you going, mate?
S1 (04:53):
I'm going. Well, now, firstly, the title of your podcast
is called Perth Tourist. Is that.
S3 (04:59):
Right? Yeah, the Perth tourist. Um, it was originally the tourist.
It's played on Vision Australia radio before. Um, but I've
sort of reached out to them again after all these
years and thought we'd try and repackage it since I
made The Tourist, there's a Stan original TV show about, um,
some action hero or something. Well, we can't call it that,
so we'll call it the Perth Tourist and make it
(05:20):
really wa focused, which is. Which is really cool. Yeah.
S1 (05:23):
Um, and that's what we're all about here in the
Vision Australia radio studios in Perth. I'm not very parochial
most of the time apart from my football, but we
like to showcase what's going on here in Western Australia.
And this program gets aired all across Australia and it's
podcast as well. So we go across the world. So
let's shine a light on what's going on in Perth. Now,
(05:45):
you just mentioned that you did some time with Vision
Australia yourself. Tell us about how and why you started
with Vision Australia.
S3 (05:53):
So I was a radio science student at Murdoch University,
and I got good enough grades to get out of
the research units that nobody wants to do. So they
offered us a professional work placement instead. And I went, oh, beauty. Um, my, uh,
unit coordinator at the time said, we've got a few
choices here you could pick, you know, maybe one of
the commercial radio stations, you know, which, you know, could
(06:14):
do an internship. It might lead to a job. Um,
or we have this really close tie with Vision Australia, and,
I don't know, my gut was sort of saying, I'm
really keen to try something new. Um, there's plenty of
time to go and try and find work or, you know,
build a career. But Vision Australia is something where I
feel like, um, I don't know, it was just sort
of something that really interested me. So I went there and,
(06:35):
you know, not being part of the blind, low vision
community at all. Um, and they just welcomed me with
open arms and supported me and, um, really just sort
of pitched this idea, uh, you know, for the tourists
in its early stages. And I just lit up. I
was like, that's that's all I want to do. So
we fleshed it out, um, and made this really awesome
three part series. And I really give that project so
(06:58):
much credit for where I am today. And, you know,
the sort of projects that I love working on and,
you know, so much so that after all this time,
I wanted to try and bring it back in the
way that I have now.
S1 (07:10):
So what do you think warmed you towards working with
Vision Australia Radio?
S3 (07:15):
I guess when I was doing the degree at Murdoch,
it was very community radio focused. Um, so it's not
that we weren't getting experience with commercial radio. It's just
we really like the values of, you know, a community
based projects and making things like that. And I really
sort of gravitated to that at the time. Um, particularly,
(07:37):
you know, the fact that this is a community radio
station and it was offering to a community that I
hadn't been a part of or didn't know anything about.
And I thought, well, you know what? Let's let's try
this and see where it takes us. And, you know,
it took us somewhere completely unpredictable.
S1 (07:53):
So Vision Australia approached you with the idea of doing
the Perth tourist.
S3 (07:57):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I'll never take credit for this
as something, um, that I, you know, own or created
off my own bat. I would have never have made
this without the understanding of the sort of, um, you know, content, um,
that the blind and low vision community have in terms
of like, um, you know, audio descriptions, for example, which
is a big part of this podcast. And, you know,
(08:17):
just having some having one of the volunteers pitch it
to us as wouldn't it be great if we did
audio tours? Because obviously you can go to museums and
whatnot and get, um, you know, guided content when you're there. Um,
and why don't we sort of, sort of take that
idea and put it into a different format and, oh,
I it just clicked straight away and I thought, that's,
that's exactly what I want to make.
S1 (08:37):
So we better tell everyone what the Perth tourist is.
The premise. I've listened to the episodes that are now
available on the major streaming platforms and they're fabulous. Really great.
I think you achieved what you were hoping to achieve.
They hit the mark. You have created a really great product.
I really enjoy it and I'm looking forward to finding
out more about what you've got planned in the future,
(08:58):
which we'll talk about in a sec. But tell us
the basic outline and the premise of what the Perth
tourist is and how it got started, and what you
were hoping to do in those early days.
S3 (09:10):
I think the most succinct way I've found to describe
it is, um, audio described walking tours of, you know,
iconic locations around Perth or WA. Um, so really logistically,
the best way to sort of explain it in detail
is how I produce it. You know, I go to
these places like the Freo prison or the Maritime Museum
or Sci-tech. They're the episodes available now. We mic up
(09:33):
a tour guide. I walk around with this giant box
on me that has all the lapel mic receivers. I
go and record all the stereo sounds and really capture
what it's like to go on that tour. And then
on top of that, I do audio description, um, in,
you know, a maybe a, a modest sense in the word.
It's sort of describing what I experienced on the tour
(09:56):
as the person going on it, as opposed to just
the tour guide, you know. So it's trying to immerse it,
trying to make it immersive in a way that, um,
makes it more accessible than simply just going on the tour.
S1 (10:07):
When you listen to it, it does feel quite immersive,
a bit like what people would imagine that term to be.
And it is, uh, like a live experience of being
on the tour. I like how you've incorporated, especially being
a bit of a sound nerd myself, incorporated the the
natural sounds of the environment because you're walking through the
tour and, um, I'm glad you told me that you
(10:29):
put a lapel mic on the tour guide. So that
explains why the quality is so good when you're listening
to the guide. So they were up for that?
S3 (10:39):
Yeah. Which was really great. So, um, you know, at
that point it hadn't been made yet. So to get, um,
the Frio Prison, for example, which was episode one to go. Yeah, absolutely.
And have everything fit so well was was truly awesome. Um,
so we miked up the tour guide. It was great.
They just did their thing, you know, because those tour
guides are running off muscle memory. They're doing that tour
(11:00):
every day. That first episode, funnily enough, I thought I
was really going to have to be more of a character.
So in the first, maybe 5 to 10 minutes of
that tour, I was really chiming in quite a lot,
trying to be quippy or ask a lot of questions.
And then I just realized how much of an expert
that tour guide was. I was like, okay, the best
way for me to do this is to shut up. Yeah.
(11:21):
So I did that and, um, let them do their thing.
And that worked really, really well. Um, and my job
was to just capture that experience. So I was good
that you really appreciated the stereo sounds, because, um, that's
the whole part of this audio thing. I know it's
a bit of a buzzword immersion and theater of the
mind and that kind of stuff. But I think to
(11:41):
really dig down into that, like that's the reason I
captured those sounds is because you can get so much
more information, I guess subconsciously with those sounds. So you
can get an idea of how big a room is
with the reverb, um, the texture of how something might
feel based on the sound that it makes.
S1 (11:58):
It's what they call in your business. Soundscapes.
S3 (12:00):
Yes. Exactly. Yeah. So it's not just those atmospheric sounds
which are kind of infer where you are, but the
Frio Prison was really good for those really direct sound
effects like, um, those big, massive, heavy Jared doors, um, the,
the keys jangling, all those kind of things. Um, really
give you an idea of how, how much distance there
(12:22):
was between you and the outside world as a, as
a prisoner, obviously. Yeah.
S1 (12:26):
Yeah. I have experienced a few versions of soundscapes or
immersive sound creations where you have that real surround sound,
3D sound experience. And before you go on, they say
wear headphones because it's going to be all around you.
It's it's a fascinating and brilliant experience. I highly recommend
(12:47):
searching some of these projects out that you can find
on the internet and so on. And so moving on
to the future now, Ethan, what what are your plans ahead.
And I believe that you've got a fundraising campaign to
try to help you establish yourself so you can do
more of these fantastic podcasts.
S3 (13:04):
Like I said, I made those first three episodes quite
a while ago, and I've always tried in some way,
shape or form to bring it back. What ends up happening, though,
is because I'm doing it essentially with my own time
and money, and because it's such an extensive project, I've
always struggled to do it, you know, quote unquote, for free.
(13:24):
So I thought, well, why don't I try and, um,
have a crack at getting this thing funded? So I've
started a Kickstarter campaign. Um, we're nearly at the halfway mark,
which is fantastic, which means that, you know, instead of, um,
you know, being funded through my usual client work, you know,
editing podcasts or making stuff. There's a chance I could
get paid to do this project that I'm really proud of. So, yeah,
(13:48):
if we're being honest, I'm probably going to be doing
it for I am essentially undercharging. I suppose if the
funds are successful because it's not so much about the money.
It's more about if this campaign is successful. It represents
that there's a group of people that really are keen
on this. And it's another, you know, sample in, you know,
trying to find other ways to fund it. Yeah. So
(14:09):
so tell.
S1 (14:09):
Us about the Kickstarter campaign and how how to find
that we will put this information in the podcast description.
If you're listening on the radio, please get your writing
tools out, get the brailler down and write. Write it
all out. So tell us, Ethan, how do we find
out about the Kickstarter campaign and how do people how
(14:29):
can people contribute?
S3 (14:31):
Well, one of the easiest ways you can do is
Google the Perth Tourist Kickstarter. It should be the first
option that comes up. I also have links in my
social media, so if you search noise pilot up on
Instagram or TikTok, uh, there'll be links you can follow
to that page as well. There's definitely ways to go
and access that online.
S1 (14:50):
You just mentioned your business that you have called Noise Pilot.
Tell us a bit about that. How does that work
and what is it?
S3 (14:57):
So I used to work in radio for quite a while,
doing sound production and sound design and kind of decided,
why don't I try and have a pint and, um,
see if I can, you know, launch my own projects
and help other independent creators. So I went out on
my own to essentially build podcasts and help other people
build content and stuff like that. And I think noise
(15:17):
pilot for me right now is really focus on, like
you said yourself, um, wha stories and wha creators and
things like that because, um, I guess it feels like
to me, there's a big expectation that a lot of
our media in Australia comes from over east. There's a
lot of creators in Sydney and Melbourne and, you know,
that's kind of like our Hollywood. You have to go
(15:39):
over there to make it. And I'm kind of like, well,
I think we tell a really good story over here. Yes.
And I'd love to get some more WA representation. So
that's that's what it's all about. And it's also just
about being really inclusive and positive. The Perth tourist is
one for that for sure that I really highlight, but
then also do a mindfulness and meditation podcast as well
to make that, um, not so intimidating to people. Noise
(16:01):
pilots a lot of things.
S1 (16:03):
I really want to, um, support that. I do encourage
people to do their creative stuff and to keep things local,
as they say. And also people listen to this program
and think, oh wow, that sounds really great. I could
do that. And there is also a joke that everyone's
got a podcast, and there are a lot of people
(16:23):
doing podcasts, and there's a lot of poor ones, and
it takes time and it takes expertise to polish these
programs up to be broadcastable. So they're not just two
people with no skills talking on air. And I really
appreciate that, that you you're trying to help people out
(16:45):
to get get them up and running to tell their stories.
S3 (16:48):
Yeah. It is really funny that you say that as
well because, um, I guess when people say, what do
you do for work? And I say, oh, I make podcasts,
people will go, oh, not another one, another. Like making podcasts.
They roll their eyes. Um, and I try to say, well, look,
I'm trying to buck the trend of that. It's not just, um,
you know, going on there and talking for the sake
of it. Um, it's going on there and trying to
come up with really good ideas that, you know, include
(17:10):
people and make them feel better. And I really think
that helping other people create themselves is an inclusive and
positive act as well. So, you know, that's what I
guess is a really big part of what I'm trying
to do here. And, you know, experimenting on where the
ability to keep me, um, my bills paid is in that. Yeah.
S1 (17:29):
Yeah, sure.
S2 (17:33):
On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to In Plain Sight
with Simon Chong and me, Andrew Williams. Our guest this
week is Ethan Kavanagh, who, in association with Vision Australia Radio,
developed The Tourist a few years back and is now
relaunching the program as The Perth tourist. And now it's
back to Simon and Ethan.
S1 (17:56):
Do you film your podcasts?
S3 (17:58):
That's a really good question. There are some that I
do because I think at the moment visuals are a
really big part of this. It's where the industry is headed.
People have asked me if they would, you know, be
keen on me filming The Tourist. Um, and I say
to them, no, I'd say if you really want to
get a visual tourist thing, go watch getaway. Yeah, I
mean that. I wouldn't say it so bluntly. I'd be
(18:19):
more critical and say, look, this is, um, an audio first, um,
podcast for a reason, because I want to include the
blind and low vision community that it was created for.
And I would argue that, um, not only does it
keep the costs down to just do audio, but it
also is far more immersive and can be accessed in
so many more different places. The only challenge is, of course,
(18:41):
trying to, um, promote it in a visual place, but
I'm quite willing to take on that responsibility and that
challenge to keep. To preserve what this Psalm is supposed
to be.
S1 (18:51):
I do find chat podcasts filmed that you can find
on YouTube or wherever. Quite odd. There's just people sitting
in a studio like this talking. Admittedly, most of the
ones I've seen on YouTube are famous people, and people
like watching famous people do everything. But podcasts, by their nature,
are supposed to be a listening format.
S3 (19:12):
I guess.
S1 (19:12):
But also I'm vision impaired, so I don't care what's
going on on the screen.
S3 (19:16):
So I'd probably, you know, push. I would agree with
you in the fact that, you know, you can go
on to a Spotify or a feed or something like that,
and you scroll and it's the same shot. It's one
it's a person with headphones behind a mic and you
constantly see that same shot. So, you know, I can
see exactly why you would think that. Um, I quite
like building, um, you know, podcasts with visuals in mind,
(19:37):
but I'm thinking, all right, what can I do? That's
that's not that. Or what would be the purpose of
making it visual? Um, but, you know, for the most part,
I think I can execute on a product that is
just audio only and can include people. The only challenge is,
is how do you, um, show it to people on
places where visual comes first? And that's that's a fun challenge,
(19:58):
but it's a hard one.
S1 (20:00):
So, Ethan, what we might do now is just play
a little short grab of one of your episodes that
you are hoping to establish. Now, what's the piece that
we're going to listen to now?
S3 (20:12):
Okay, so this is when, um, on the Frio Prison,
we enter the room, the gallows, um, where, you know,
people were hanged to death. Um, and the tour guide
at this point just got into a really deep story, um,
and really takes us through how that process happened. I
think it works really well because it's not just a room,
(20:33):
is it? There's so many things that I was able
to describe and really set the tone for. So I
really this is my favorite part of okay of the
tour for sure. Through the door and up a small
step we enter the gallows. A dark room with timber floors.
A metal railing in the middle of the room separates
(20:54):
us from a large iron lever, operating a trapdoor in
the floor on the other side of the railing, which
shows a room with stone walls beneath. A large wooden
beam is suspended over the hole in the floor, with
a hangman's noose draped over it, dangling over the trapdoor.
S4 (21:11):
Executioner drops the rope over his head in the same movement.
He slams that across the trapdoor, crashes after it. There
were pigeons up on the roof. The pigeons took off
and everybody knew out in the yards, waiting silently that
the execution had taken place.
S1 (21:32):
Well, thanks for that, Ethan. Yeah. Wow, Ethan, that was fantastic.
Really enjoyed listening to that.
S3 (21:37):
Yeah, I'd love to sort of explain one of the
interesting parts in this. Yeah. You heard you would have
heard a lever crash. Um, when you listen to that, that, uh,
wasn't something that I added in in post. That was
the tour guide doing that in one motion during the speech. Um,
and when the tour guide did that, my jaw was like,
(21:59):
on the ground, I was speechless. Um, there's a bit
that didn't make it into the episode, but then she
goes and says, uh, can I get some feedback? Cos
you're not really saying much, uh, how are we doing?
And I was just gobsmacked at how compelling this story
was and how freaked out we were. And I went,
oh yeah, great. That's perfect. Let's keep going.
S1 (22:17):
And whilst you're listening to this, people, maybe you could
contact me. And, uh, the program, our email is in
plain sight at Vision Australia and send us some ideas
of where you'd like the Perth tourists to go and
how you would like the audio to describe tours to
be held. We've talked about audio description on this program
(22:40):
a few times, and I've been watching a lot of
ABC TV, and one of the things they're doing slightly
wrong on the audio description at the current time is
they're talking too much. They are saying what the person
is about has just said. And I know what was
said because I can hear that we can hear. Or
(23:01):
they're saying, and Samantha just slammed the door. I know
Samantha just slammed the door because I heard the door slam.
Sometimes audio description should be less is best.
S3 (23:11):
Mhm. I really because we had a chat before I
came in here about the philosophy behind audio description. And
it is fascinating to me because look I'm not an
experienced audio describer. I only know a very small amount.
And I can be still very critical of those first
three episodes of how I approached it and maybe how
I plan to, um, in upcoming episodes as well. So
(23:31):
I really do think a lot of how I guess
I can do it that and what my relationship is
to that, you know, form of communication. My, um, question
would be in that regard is I think I was too, um,
objective when I did it all those years ago. I'd like, um,
to sort of incorporate how I describe my personal experience
as another, you know, factor in, in.
S1 (23:54):
Some people want emotion in the audio description, and some
people want it to be dry so they can feel
the emotion themselves. It's a bit like when people read
audio books. Some people sort of act them to a degree,
and some people read when. When I first started listening
(24:15):
to audio books, it was designed to be read in
a not a monotone, but a neutral tone, so that
the person listening can feel the emotion and create the
imagery inside their head themselves without it being interpreted for them.
S3 (24:30):
I think there's definitely a balance, isn't there? Like it's, um,
what can you assume that the audience can already gather?
And what benefit is there to you to adding emotion.
I think a perfect example is when we went on
that free prison tour, the first time I did it,
you know, all those years ago we went to the, um,
the whipping post and I said it was and I
(24:51):
said it was three meters tall. And I was like, well,
that's well and good, but I don't even know what
three meters looks like. It would be more interesting to
say we went to this whipping post and it was really,
really tall and quite intimidating looking. And that I think is, um,
adding color in terms of describing my other senses other
(25:11):
than just saying, oh, that thing is three meters tall.
S1 (25:14):
So we've got to move on a little bit because
time's running out and I'm probably getting a little bit
too involved because I'm such a nerd and.
S3 (25:20):
You got to stop me as well. Um.
S1 (25:23):
I love this stuff. But tell us again. So it's
a Kickstarter program, and you just look that up on
the Kickstarter.
S3 (25:29):
Yeah.
S1 (25:30):
And when will that run till?
S3 (25:31):
Uh, the final day is October 10th.
S1 (25:34):
So the three programs that are all available, one of
the topics that you've done on the tour so far?
S3 (25:40):
Yep. So we've done the Fremantle Prison. We've done the
Maritime Museum. I really like that one because we do
the submarine tour that's there. Yeah. And then we do
sci tech as well. I think that one's really good
for our kids, because it's got a puppet show in
the middle of it.
S1 (25:52):
Yeah, yeah. What's your next adventure, do you think?
S3 (25:56):
Look, we do have a few places that are lined up.
The great news is, is because this has already been
made and we've got something to show to people. I
think a lot of the places that I've reached out
to are really excited to work with us. I can't
say too much too far, because I guess the problem
with the Kickstarter is the challenge, I should say, is
that it's all or nothing. So if we don't meet
our funds, everyone who pitched in gets refunded. So there's
(26:20):
a lot on the line. Yeah, and I know that
as soon as this kicks over, we're straight into making content,
which is really exciting.
S1 (26:26):
And well, I hope that you get the Kickstarter program
up and running, and I hope it all works out
for you, because for one, I'm really keen to see
this type of project, um, available and coming out of
Western Australia and are really keen to find out more
about the Perth tourist. And I support you all the way.
And thanks for coming in and talking with us and
(26:48):
sharing some of your background and your knowledge with us today, Ethan.
S3 (26:51):
Well, thank you so much mate. It was a great chat.
Thanks for having us.
S1 (26:53):
Well, that's all for this week, folks. See you next
time and bye for now. Cheers.
S2 (27:07):
That concludes in Plain Sight for this week. Join us
at the same time next week on Vision Australia Radio,
VA radio digital and online at VOA radio. You can
also listen on demand by searching for In Plain Sight
by Vision Australia Radio. Wherever you get your podcasts, or
ask your smart device to play in Plain sight by
(27:29):
Vision Australia Radio. Thanks for listening.
S5 (27:32):
Thank you.
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