September 30, 2025 • 28 mins
This week, Andrew and Simon are joined by Peter Stotzer, a long-term volunteer presenter at Vision Australia Radio Perth. Peter hosts the wonderful 'Sites, Sounds & Songs', a program taking listeners on a virtual journey of different locations around the world, each paired with a personally chosen song that captures the spirit of the place.
We also explore Peter’s passion for cycling, and learn how his interest in competitive cycling led him to be actively involved with tandem cycling as a front rider (pilot) for vision impaired cyclists.
Check the program guide in your area for the broadcast times of 'Sites, Sounds & Songs' on our website. Unfortunately due to copyright restrictions on playing music, the program is not available via podcast.
Western Australian Tandem Cycling Advisory Council (or WATCAC for short) is based in Perth, Western Australia. Volunteer run, their purpose is to promote the integration of blind and vision-impaired cyclists into the cycling mainstream using tandems. WATCAC organises regular rides for fun and fitness and also participates in community cycling events. For more details go to their website. You can also follow WATCAC on Facebook (@WATCAC) and Instagram (@tandem.watcac).
To find out more about volunteering at Vision Australia Radio, please send an expression of interest to radio@visionaustralia.org.
Support Vision Australia Radio: https://www.visionaustralia.org/donate
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:17):
Hello and welcome to In Plain Sight, a program where
we highlight people who are making a positive impact in
the community and disability sector.
S2 (00:25):
Shining a light on those who would be otherwise hidden
in plain sight.
S1 (00:29):
And it's a pleasure to bring you these stories on
a weekly basis with you here on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (00:35):
Hi, welcome. And this week we've got a very special
show coming up for you. But before we get started,
I'd like to welcome to this studio my co-host and
producer Andrew. Hi, Andrew. How are you?
S1 (00:45):
I'm very well, thank you. Simon, how about you?
S2 (00:48):
I'm great. Had a good week. And I'm really looking
forward to this week's show. And, uh, getting on with things. Now,
before we get into this week's show, I just wanted
to remind people about a few things that I want
to follow up with, with some previous programs. Firstly, going
to the program a few weeks ago about the podcast
called The Perth Tourist. Now Ethan Cavanagh, who has the
(01:12):
podcast called The Perth Tourist, which is an audio description
of Perth landmarks and attractions. Ethan Cavanagh has a Kickstarter
program that is going to be winding up soon. I
really want people to support this program because I think
it's a great initiative where it is a podcast purely
(01:32):
designed to assist blind and visually impaired people to get
the most out of visiting a landmark of Perth. And
it kind of like an audio virtual tour and it's
really great program. So if you can kick in some
dollars to the Kickstarter program. The other thing I wanted
to remind people about is the Great Literature Festival, and
(01:56):
it is called the Totally Lit Literature Festival happening in
Fremantle right now. And that is something really worth checking out.
And here at Vision Australia Radio, we're happy to be
supporting that great initiative. Andrew, what have we got coming
up on the program today?
S1 (02:12):
Today we have a very special guest in the program,
Peter Stotzer, who's one of our volunteers here at Vision
Australia Radio. He's been a volunteer for quite some time
and has got some great stories to tell today. So
it's a pleasure to actually welcome you into the studio,
into studio one here in our studios in Perth. Welcome
(02:33):
to the program, Peter.
S3 (02:34):
Thank you, Andrew, and thank you, Simon, for inviting me
into this studio, which is a bit familiar to me.
It is. It is. Yes. It usually sits where you
are sitting, Andrew. Yeah. But it's a great pleasure to
be on that program in plain sight, because it touches
so many people out there. And so it's great to
be here.
S2 (02:52):
Great to see you. And we really appreciate you coming
in to have a chat with us today and telling
us all about what you do here at Vision Australia Radio.
S1 (02:59):
So, Peter, I met you first in around about December
last year when I first got involved with Vision Australia
Radio here in Perth. And but you go way back
much further than that. So tell me, tell me a
bit about that.
S3 (03:11):
Yeah. Um, I started here. Um, it's just about five,
five years now in, in 2020. And I went to
see our administrator, lovely Bridget. No, Bridget, rather Bridget Barry
and said, look, um, I would like to do something
for the blind community because I had been involved previously
(03:34):
with some, um, sports, mainly cycling with, with, with blind
athletes at the back and in my work retired now.
But when I was a teacher, also had blind students.
And so I knew about Braille and I, I knew
about the difficulty in getting ahead and the hard work
for those students put in, and also in the cycling,
(03:57):
the hard work that needs to go in to get somewhere.
And I had been retired and we did some travel
and all that, and then I thought, I need to
do something again, but it can't be physical. I can't
go and attend them anymore in my knees. And I've
always been interested in radio because, um, where I grew up.
We never had a television, never had television. So radio
was the natural thing to follow the sports and and
(04:20):
everything else. And, and I had been hearing Vision Australia
radio and even earlier on when it was the reading
service before Vision Australia took over. So I thought maybe
that's something for me. But yeah, I was hesitant. And
I said to Bridget, look, I will have an accent,
I'll make mistakes and all that. That was actually on
the 3rd of January 2020, because I made a New
(04:40):
Year's resolution and I said, I'm going to write in
and I'll do that. And then Bridget said, yeah, interested.
But at the moment we haven't got any vacancies. Could
be a couple of weeks, could be a couple of months.
And it was actually ten months before I got a call. Okay.
And Bridget said, can you come in tomorrow?
S1 (04:55):
That was that's an amazing New Year's resolution. Often you
hear about New Year's resolutions and you think, oh yeah,
I'll do that this year. And then the year goes
by and it hasn't happened. But that's like two days. Yeah,
it's very impressive.
S3 (05:06):
Yeah, it was good. It was good. Yeah. And then
and then coming in ten, ten months later. Uh, yeah.
I was on the air fairly soon and Settled in
and I was mainly reading West Coast news, also a
bit Al Jazeera. Al Jazeera then went and it's now
the National News Hour, which you would know very well
because actually you first show we did together. So I
was on both for a while.
S1 (05:27):
The program you work on now tell me about that one.
S3 (05:29):
Okay. So I'm working Monday mornings. That's West Coast News.
That's the program that goes out live every day, 730
to 930. That's the weekdays. And then now we also
have West Coast news on Saturday between 8 and 10:00.
So I'll do that as as the panel operator hosting
the show. Um, and that's basically reading the West Australian newspaper.
(05:53):
And we supplemented with other things. We, we look at
the traffic, we look at the weather and have some
magazine articles. And so that is that's the live show.
S2 (06:03):
And if you're listening to us on the radio rather
than the podcast, that's the show that just precedes us.
And I like to, uh, acknowledge the people that do
that program on a Tuesday morning. And who? Just come
on and introduce our show for us. Um, whilst I
am interrupting, I want to touch. I want to touch.
S3 (06:22):
I thought it took you a long time to interrupt. Yes.
S2 (06:25):
You mentioned it just now. Where you originally from? And
that accent. So tell us a little bit, a bit
personal background as well that led you to be here
not only in the studio but in Western Australia.
S3 (06:35):
Yeah. So I grew up in Switzerland, did the schooling
there and left after year nine, which is quite normal
where I grew up and then served an apprenticeship with
the Swiss Railways in their workshops as a precision mechanic
and also some diesel stuff, etc. and, and did that
and enjoyed it. And then I because we didn't travel abroad,
(06:58):
I wanted to start seeing the world. And so when
I came to the end of the apprenticeship, I wanted
to be a motorman on the merchant navy that Switzerland has,
although obviously it's a landlocked country. And went to the
interview and they said, yeah, we are absolutely interested. Coming
from the railways and all that. But you need to
do your military service first. And so I thought, no,
(07:20):
I want I want to see something before that. And
so I became a roustabout on the river barges, the
ones that go between Switzerland and Rotterdam and, and Belgium
and all that, and then did the army service. And
then I wanted to to go elsewhere. And I went
to South Africa first spent about two years in South Africa,
in Cape Town mainly, but also worked in a in
(07:41):
a diamond mine in Lesotho and was in Mozambique, Namibia
as well. And then because of the apartheid situation, I mean,
I had a good life, there's no question as a
young bloke there. But I thought long term that's not
so good. So I went through the process and I
came here to to Australia also always wanted to come
to WA because I knew he had started up with
(08:01):
mining up north and so I knew would have a job.
But then I came back by ship and when I
paid for the passage, I said, how much more would
it be to Melbourne or Sydney? She said, you pay
destination Australia. So I said, I'll stay. I'll stay on board.
And the Sydney Opera House was fairly new and everybody
spoke about it. And so I saw the Sydney Opera
(08:22):
House on a crisp morning in June in the early
70s or mid 70s, and it was a fantastic, fantastic
memory coming through the heads and then the blue sky
and that opera house there and then from from there.
I went on to, to help to build the railway
to Alice Springs, The Ghan. I was working in the
bush there and, and they also did a bit of
(08:44):
work for a Canadian nickel company in Sulawesi, Indonesia. And yeah,
then I met my wife and. Yeah, and now we
are here and we have three children and five grandchildren.
S1 (08:56):
Now there's another program you work on here at Vision
Australia Radio, which is a travel program.
S3 (09:02):
Correct.
S1 (09:03):
So tell me a bit about that.
S3 (09:04):
Yeah, actually, you see how it goes in life. It's
all circumstance because when we did the West Coast news program,
we normally do that in threes because it's a two
hour live program. So the two read this one. Host.
And then during Covid, we were only allowed to be
two in the in the studio for Bridget and Amber
who was here at the time. They said, look, if
it's much, you can just play an extra music piece.
(09:26):
So because nobody was traveling, I just had the idea.
We go on an island, escape at 9:15, said a
few things about the island, and then we had a
song that went with it. And then when Covid was
over and that had to go, it was a bit disappointed.
And then I thought, well, maybe I make a program
out of it. Not necessarily with islands. And it became
it became that travel show and it's called sights, Sounds
(09:49):
and Songs. And I went with the idea to to Gemma,
who was supportive and said, look, can you make us
three pilots? Um, to be aired over Christmas period. And
at the time it was called The Music Places Pottery.
And then when when it went on to, to become
a regular program, um, Gemma came up with the sights,
(10:10):
sounds and songs and again, a new show. The the
This side thing is also in there and my side
is s I t e s. So the sides that
you go and visit.
S2 (10:20):
I love that concept because it really strikes the two
things that people love, which is traveling. And then you
combine it with the sounds and some music and songs.
Tell us how the show works. Peter, you describe a
place and then you you combine some sounds with it.
How does.
S3 (10:37):
It work? So basically you go to 2 or 3 places, um,
we explore, we, we, we look at the food, we
look at the culture, the sights, and then we have
a piece of music to go with it. The idea
is also to have, if possible, um, how should I
say that a blind aspect in there. So we might,
we might look at somebody who is a tailor in Nairobi, who,
(11:02):
who is blind and how he was operating. At the moment,
I'm working on a circus theme, and I have found
an article of of a blind acrobat, so I try
to bring that into it if it fits. And sometimes
we also go with themes. So we had one just
going to the FIFA World Cup stadiums, for instance in Johannesburg,
(11:24):
Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires, this sort of thing.
S2 (11:26):
So tell us, Peter, when can people hear this show
and where and how can they find it?
S3 (11:31):
Okay, sights, sounds and songs because it's easy listening. It's
on a Sunday afternoon at 2:00. I think in Adelaide
it's at 1 or 130. So best if you're not
in Perth or in Melbourne to to check that out.
And then we have a repeat on 930 in the
evening on a Friday. You can't access it as a
podcast because of the music components in there. And and
(11:56):
so that's not that's not possible yet.
S2 (11:58):
So that's very much linked to what I was talking
about at the start of the program with tours. So
you're kind of creating a virtual audio tour of a
particular place and letting, um, the listener use their imagination
to go with you on this journey?
S3 (12:16):
Yes. It's not as. It's not as, um. How should
I say? Well developed as Ethan wants. And it's shorter.
It's quicker. And yeah, we go to about three places
because I want that the pace is quite high and
that we have different music. So it's not what I,
what I particularly like as a music, but I think
we had um, obviously about 300 songs so far in
(12:38):
different languages, and I think we covered 30 plus languages even, um,
you know, we had Mongolian, we had Malagasy, which is
the language of Madagascar, um, Burmese from Myanmar. And, and
so that is sometimes a bit hard to source. So
you can find me in the op shops.
S2 (12:56):
Okay. Very good.
S3 (12:57):
And guess what? I found the Mongolian album. I find
that in Pinjarra, in the op shop there of all places.
S1 (13:04):
Um, and the recent milestone that you've reached 100 programs?
S3 (13:08):
Yes. 100.
S1 (13:09):
Yeah. Congratulations on that. That's fantastic.
S3 (13:11):
Then when, um, I went with the idea with the
concept to Gemma, she said. Um, can you make us
26 episodes? So, you know, half, six months? Yeah, yeah.
And then I thought, I need to go to 50 and. Yeah.
And I enjoy it. But obviously the pressure is on
because you need one every week. And so you, you
(13:32):
produce one, but the next two are already up in
your head. And then as you go it changes because
all of a sudden you find the music that's better.
Instead of instead of Buenos Aires, you go to Rio
de Janeiro or something like that. So it's a constant
kind of of thing that's happening in your head. And
I think at our age, physical exercise is important and
maybe up in the gray matter as well.
S1 (13:54):
And that's the excitement, I guess, of putting together radio programs. Yes.
You're always kind of thinking ahead of, yeah, of where
you are at that time.
S2 (14:01):
So, Peter, tell us what it is that you get
from being a volunteer here at Vision Australia Radio and
how you would, might encourage other people to volunteer at
Vision Australia Radio and other services like this.
S3 (14:13):
Yeah. Look, it's really good to be a volunteer in
doing this because you hope that you reach people that
you normally wouldn't be able to reach and that it's
tailored to them. And, you know, I always say we
bring print to life when we when we read the
newspaper because we in that sense, we give them an
(14:34):
audio version of what's happening in the newspaper. And it's,
it's it's different. I think nobody else does that. We
are reading texts that are made for individual reading. You know,
you and you see when the direct speech, the quotes
are coming up, all this sort of thing. And we
try to to bring that to the listener who hasn't
(14:54):
got that text in front of them. And that at
times is difficult because, you know, the sentences might be long.
And but what I enjoy is I get up in
the morning, it gives me a structure as well. And
I hope that there are some people who say, oh,
it's Monday, it's that block is on again with the
with the lovely readers and, some might say I'm not
(15:14):
going to turn on on the Monday because I can't
stand that accent and that's okay as well. But yeah,
and it's a strange thing because you never quite know
how many people are listening out there. But there are
people and I've had I've had a comment when I
had started, somebody said, I heard you on the radio.
What are you doing on that radio there? And I said,
(15:36):
what are you doing listening to that radio station? And
she said, I brought it for a repair. And when
I drove out of the garage, it was tuned to
990 Am. And now I'm listening all the time to
990 Am. And that person is not blind. But obviously, um,
it brings that aspect to other people like you show.
(15:58):
There are lots of people who would be listening to
the show, maybe taxi drivers or people just commuting, and
then you reach those people because some people don't know
what that is, or your description or, you know, the paving,
the tactile stuff and all that brings hopefully people closer together.
S1 (16:15):
I used to be involved with three PP in Melbourne
about 30 years ago, and I would talk to people
about the station. They'd say, oh yeah, I listened to
three PP cos I've never got time to read the newspaper.
S3 (16:26):
There you.
S1 (16:26):
Go. And they love being read to and they're not
a person with vision impairment as you've described. It's quite
a remarkable service.
S3 (16:33):
Yeah. And I hope what I say, to come back
to your question, I hope I'm able to inform, entertain
the listener and hopefully brighten up their day. Um, you know,
maybe the magazine articles with the music that you come in,
maybe a small comment that you can make.
S2 (16:50):
Thanks for joining us here on In Plain Sight on
Vision Australia Radio. You're with me, Simon Chong, and my
co-host and producer Andrew Williams. And today we have a
special guest, Peter Stotzer, who is a volunteer reader on
Vision Australia Radio here in Perth. And we are having
a wonderful conversation and we'd like to thank Peter for
(17:10):
his time today.
S1 (17:11):
Now, Peter, you're a very keen cyclist. That's a bit
of an understatement, I have to say. I mean, you
cycle everywhere. Rain, hail or shine. Tell me about your.
When you know. I mean, we all started to ride
bikes as kids, basically. But, um, tell me about your
your cycling passion.
S3 (17:29):
Yeah. So, um, as you said, we we rode the
bikes as kids, and then, um, I started racing between
16 and 1920 before. Before I went to the Army
and then to to South Africa and enjoyed that. And
it was very competitive in Europe. And, uh, and then, yeah,
it went away because I was, as I said, I
(17:51):
work in construction and so forth. And then I came
back with 34 with the family we visited, um, you know,
the grandparents and my parents in France and Switzerland. And
there was my racing bike still in the basement. Right.
So I went to ride the big mountains. And when
I came back and I thought, you didn't even realize
(18:11):
you missed that when we came back here and went
to the bike shop and bought a racing bike, and
I said to the guy, uh, I don't know much
about the racing scene, is there anything here? And he said,
how old are you? He said, I said, 34. He said, ah,
no good. I said, why? I said, Because I'm organizing
all the master races. 35 and plus. But yeah. So
(18:31):
I went to the local Northern District Cycling club and
started racing there. Yeah. Then they built the velodrome. And, um,
as a kid, I always wanted to be on the velodrome.
That was not possible. Was too far away. And so
I raced the track out there a fair bit on
the road. It was much harder. And my back, my
biggest probably is fastest time in the Collie donnybrook, but
(18:54):
it was the slowest ever, fastest time, you know what
I mean? Because it was raining and icy cold. Yeah.
So yeah. And then the big break came for to
come back to the blind cycling at the club. They said, um,
they're looking for front riders to ride a tandem with
a blind or low vision riders, and they're going to
(19:18):
meet at the track on Saturday. So and so. And
I thought, wow. And they mentioned Paralympics.
S2 (19:23):
So when did you get started with that? Peter.
S3 (19:25):
That was in that was in the blind cycling was
in 1990. So it was two years or just under
two years before the Paralympics in Barcelona. So they started
recruiting early. So I remember it was a Saturday morning
and I actually had the flu and I didn't feel
like going. And I thought, well, if you don't go now,
you're never going to find out what this is about. Yeah.
(19:45):
So yeah, and I was teamed up with a young bloke,
Paul Clohesy, um, who later won a gold medal, I
think it was in Sydney in the sprint and he
was only 18. And, and Ken Norris, who is a
coach and he was a very good track rider here.
He has a good eye and he put Paul and
(20:05):
on myself together a similar build and all that. And yeah,
we did a good time over 1000m. The beauty on
the track is you can actually see where you are
internationally without having to travel and get the funding and
all that, because those times over 1000m, 200m to 4km pursuit,
that is all known. So you can see, oh, we
(20:27):
are fairly close or with better equipment we should get
very close. So yeah. And we trained and we got
going and then yeah sometimes you get disappointments. Um, with
about nine months to go, they said there won't be
any track races in Barcelona just yet. Too dangerous and
all that. And so that was cancelled. And then we
said we've done too much, now let's try the road
(20:48):
as well, which was not my speciality. So yeah, in
1992 we, we went to Barcelona. That was with the
blind section I think. Um, now it's different now it
is organised with the sports. At the time they had
the blind section, so you would have the blind in the,
in the, in the wheelchair maybe, or the blind swimmers,
(21:10):
the blind, the blind Sports, and then later on they
changed and it is now sports based. So if you
go for cycling, you have the tandem cyclists, you have
the amputees, you have the tricycles. So it's rather than
making a point of the disability, they make a point
of the sport you're doing and that's probably the better focus.
S1 (21:32):
Tell me about the the detail about how you actually
the communication between yourself and your, your partner. I guess
the mechanics.
S3 (21:41):
Are very important. And obviously if you know each other well,
so if you go out of the saddle, um, the
back rider will will know exactly. And and when I
reach for the bottle, he would also reach for the bottle, etc.,
but with with certain people, you have to say much more. Um,
with Paul Clohisy, it was minimal and I would just say,
(22:01):
I remember, um, in Barcelona on the on the third lap,
we were in third position, we came down and the
U-turn and we went up a cobbled road and we
were attacking. Two were attacking, we were in third position.
The other ones came past. I said, Paul, these are
the medals you get. Give it everything. This is it,
you know. And we couldn't hold the wheel and, uh.
And then as the front rider, you want them, you
(22:22):
gave you back. Right. The best position of. And so
I enjoyed that much more than single riding because you
actually ride for someone else and you're still very important
part of it. And so with him, it was minimal.
Just give us more. Do this, do that. And then
I was riding with and a lot of, uh, listeners
would probably recognize the name later on riding with Ron Anderson.
(22:44):
That was for the world Championship. That was much different because, um,
he was also much more mature. And he had done
a few things, so I involved him much more in
the tactics. I would say, should we try? Should we
try to attack next lap? I think that's our only chance.
What do you think in that sense? You know, and
sometimes also a bit of audio description up the front
(23:07):
that the Germans, then you have the French etc., because
he really enjoyed that. And so it also depends what
personality the other writer has. But often the communication is almost.
You feel it? Yes.
S2 (23:21):
You mentioned a few names there. That ring a bell
with me there, Peter? From my time with Blind Sports. Yes.
I probably finished by the time you started. Nowadays they
call the front writer of the pilot. Yes, I like
that terminology because you're guiding the bicycle. Now, for those
that don't know, some people look at tandem bike riding
and think, oh, hang on, the guy at the back
(23:43):
or the girl at the back is doing all the
work and the person in the front is just cruising.
But of course, that's not not the way it goes.
How long did it take you to adjust to to
writing or piloting a tandem bike, rather than what you've
been doing on a single bike?
S3 (23:58):
It actually, if if your position is is is a
is a good one. In other words, the front of
the bike is very close to what you are riding
a single. Then it's quite quick. And uh, when we
had selected to go to Barcelona on the road and
we actually had a tandem built here locally. So basically
(24:20):
the front of that tandem was my single bike, and
I didn't know the difference that Paul was at the back.
It was just it went through the corners beautiful. It
was it was just it's nice when, when, when you
know the material, everything is right. Yeah.
S2 (24:33):
So how long did you do that for, Peter?
S3 (24:35):
Um, probably about ten, 12 years. So in a way,
I started by going to the Paralympics. But then when
we came back, we did a lot of grassroot, um,
development at the track with a lot of, uh, um,
blind new riders and some stayed on. And then there
were also some recreational rights, but we would have some,
(24:59):
you know, some challenges with some handicaps as well. So
anybody who joined the, the, the movement would have a
chance of, of getting some reward, you know, and that
that went very well. So that was the grassroots one. And, um, yeah,
for about ten, 12 years. Yeah.
S2 (25:16):
Well, the tandem cycling movement here in Western Australia and
Australia in general is quite strong and prominent. For anyone listening,
I would highly recommend checking out Tandem Cycling and the
West Australian Tandem Cycling Association.
S3 (25:31):
Yeah.
S2 (25:33):
I can never remember all those.
S3 (25:34):
It's.
S2 (25:35):
Yeah, well, let it stand for you.
S3 (25:37):
Had the writer on about 6 or 7 months ago.
I heard it.
S2 (25:39):
That's right. Yeah. And they have competitive riding that happens
quite frequently. And they have lots of social events. And
you don't have to have your own bike. They they
have some tandem bikes that you can use. And they
have sighted people that are available to volunteer to ride
with you. So please, if that interests you at all,
please check it out and whenever you get a chance,
(26:01):
also look up tandem cycling at the highest level at
the Paralympics, especially in the velodrome. It is fascinating and
amazing and it has been adapted now tandem cycling. So
it's not just the blind and vision impaired who are
on a tandem bike. There are other people with other
physical disabilities that can't ride a single bike because of
their disability, and are now they've adapted it so that
(26:23):
they can do tandem bike riding. And anything in the Paralympics,
they have different categories. You're racing within a category within
your disability sector. If you are listening to the podcast,
we will put the link to the WA Tandem Cycling
Club Association up on our description to the podcast, so
you can find that there.
S1 (26:44):
Well, our time today has absolutely raced away Peter. So
it's been a fascinating chat with you today. So thank
you so much for coming into the studio, a place
which is very familiar to you. So thank you, Peter Stutzer,
for being our guest today.
S3 (27:00):
It's been an absolute pleasure. It's always great to talk
about the old times and the cycling and especially the
radio and, and here on In Plain Sight because you
reach so many people. So thank you for inviting me.
And maybe we can do it again one day. Who knows?
S1 (27:14):
Yes, it would be great fun. There'll be more stories
to tell.
S2 (27:16):
I'd like to thank you, Peter. Yeah. Thanks for coming
in today. And thanks for your valuable time. And thank
you in a general sense for your volunteering. I like
to always thank people who volunteer, especially those who are
doing in this sense. And for your time previously with, uh,
the tandem Cycling, it's a marvelous thing that you do.
S1 (27:34):
That's all we have time for on the program this week.
So thank you for your company over the last half hour.
Bye for now.
S4 (27:40):
Bye bye.
S3 (27:41):
Goodbye.
S1 (27:43):
Join us at the same time next week on Vision
Australia Radio, VA radio, digital and online at VA Radio.com.
You can also listen on demand by searching for In
Plain Sight by Vision Australia Radio. Wherever you get your podcasts,
or ask your smart device to play in Plain Sight
by Vision Australia Radio. Thanks for listening.
S4 (28:05):
Thank you.
Hello and welcome to In Plain Sight, a program where
we highlight people who are making a positive impact in
the community and disability sector.
S2 (00:25):
Shining a light on those who would be otherwise hidden
in plain sight.
S1 (00:29):
And it's a pleasure to bring you these stories on
a weekly basis with you here on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (00:35):
Hi, welcome. And this week we've got a very special
show coming up for you. But before we get started,
I'd like to welcome to this studio my co-host and
producer Andrew. Hi, Andrew. How are you?
S1 (00:45):
I'm very well, thank you. Simon, how about you?
S2 (00:48):
I'm great. Had a good week. And I'm really looking
forward to this week's show. And, uh, getting on with things. Now,
before we get into this week's show, I just wanted
to remind people about a few things that I want
to follow up with, with some previous programs. Firstly, going
to the program a few weeks ago about the podcast
called The Perth Tourist. Now Ethan Cavanagh, who has the
(01:12):
podcast called The Perth Tourist, which is an audio description
of Perth landmarks and attractions. Ethan Cavanagh has a Kickstarter
program that is going to be winding up soon. I
really want people to support this program because I think
it's a great initiative where it is a podcast purely
(01:32):
designed to assist blind and visually impaired people to get
the most out of visiting a landmark of Perth. And
it kind of like an audio virtual tour and it's
really great program. So if you can kick in some
dollars to the Kickstarter program. The other thing I wanted
to remind people about is the Great Literature Festival, and
(01:56):
it is called the Totally Lit Literature Festival happening in
Fremantle right now. And that is something really worth checking out.
And here at Vision Australia Radio, we're happy to be
supporting that great initiative. Andrew, what have we got coming
up on the program today?
S1 (02:12):
Today we have a very special guest in the program,
Peter Stotzer, who's one of our volunteers here at Vision
Australia Radio. He's been a volunteer for quite some time
and has got some great stories to tell today. So
it's a pleasure to actually welcome you into the studio,
into studio one here in our studios in Perth. Welcome
(02:33):
to the program, Peter.
S3 (02:34):
Thank you, Andrew, and thank you, Simon, for inviting me
into this studio, which is a bit familiar to me.
It is. It is. Yes. It usually sits where you
are sitting, Andrew. Yeah. But it's a great pleasure to
be on that program in plain sight, because it touches
so many people out there. And so it's great to
be here.
S2 (02:52):
Great to see you. And we really appreciate you coming
in to have a chat with us today and telling
us all about what you do here at Vision Australia Radio.
S1 (02:59):
So, Peter, I met you first in around about December
last year when I first got involved with Vision Australia
Radio here in Perth. And but you go way back
much further than that. So tell me, tell me a
bit about that.
S3 (03:11):
Yeah. Um, I started here. Um, it's just about five,
five years now in, in 2020. And I went to
see our administrator, lovely Bridget. No, Bridget, rather Bridget Barry
and said, look, um, I would like to do something
for the blind community because I had been involved previously
(03:34):
with some, um, sports, mainly cycling with, with, with blind
athletes at the back and in my work retired now.
But when I was a teacher, also had blind students.
And so I knew about Braille and I, I knew
about the difficulty in getting ahead and the hard work
for those students put in, and also in the cycling,
(03:57):
the hard work that needs to go in to get somewhere.
And I had been retired and we did some travel
and all that, and then I thought, I need to
do something again, but it can't be physical. I can't
go and attend them anymore in my knees. And I've
always been interested in radio because, um, where I grew up.
We never had a television, never had television. So radio
was the natural thing to follow the sports and and
(04:20):
everything else. And, and I had been hearing Vision Australia
radio and even earlier on when it was the reading
service before Vision Australia took over. So I thought maybe
that's something for me. But yeah, I was hesitant. And
I said to Bridget, look, I will have an accent,
I'll make mistakes and all that. That was actually on
the 3rd of January 2020, because I made a New
(04:40):
Year's resolution and I said, I'm going to write in
and I'll do that. And then Bridget said, yeah, interested.
But at the moment we haven't got any vacancies. Could
be a couple of weeks, could be a couple of months.
And it was actually ten months before I got a call. Okay.
And Bridget said, can you come in tomorrow?
S1 (04:55):
That was that's an amazing New Year's resolution. Often you
hear about New Year's resolutions and you think, oh yeah,
I'll do that this year. And then the year goes
by and it hasn't happened. But that's like two days. Yeah,
it's very impressive.
S3 (05:06):
Yeah, it was good. It was good. Yeah. And then
and then coming in ten, ten months later. Uh, yeah.
I was on the air fairly soon and Settled in
and I was mainly reading West Coast news, also a
bit Al Jazeera. Al Jazeera then went and it's now
the National News Hour, which you would know very well
because actually you first show we did together. So I
was on both for a while.
S1 (05:27):
The program you work on now tell me about that one.
S3 (05:29):
Okay. So I'm working Monday mornings. That's West Coast News.
That's the program that goes out live every day, 730
to 930. That's the weekdays. And then now we also
have West Coast news on Saturday between 8 and 10:00.
So I'll do that as as the panel operator hosting
the show. Um, and that's basically reading the West Australian newspaper.
(05:53):
And we supplemented with other things. We, we look at
the traffic, we look at the weather and have some
magazine articles. And so that is that's the live show.
S2 (06:03):
And if you're listening to us on the radio rather
than the podcast, that's the show that just precedes us.
And I like to, uh, acknowledge the people that do
that program on a Tuesday morning. And who? Just come
on and introduce our show for us. Um, whilst I
am interrupting, I want to touch. I want to touch.
S3 (06:22):
I thought it took you a long time to interrupt. Yes.
S2 (06:25):
You mentioned it just now. Where you originally from? And
that accent. So tell us a little bit, a bit
personal background as well that led you to be here
not only in the studio but in Western Australia.
S3 (06:35):
Yeah. So I grew up in Switzerland, did the schooling
there and left after year nine, which is quite normal
where I grew up and then served an apprenticeship with
the Swiss Railways in their workshops as a precision mechanic
and also some diesel stuff, etc. and, and did that
and enjoyed it. And then I because we didn't travel abroad,
(06:58):
I wanted to start seeing the world. And so when
I came to the end of the apprenticeship, I wanted
to be a motorman on the merchant navy that Switzerland has,
although obviously it's a landlocked country. And went to the
interview and they said, yeah, we are absolutely interested. Coming
from the railways and all that. But you need to
do your military service first. And so I thought, no,
(07:20):
I want I want to see something before that. And
so I became a roustabout on the river barges, the
ones that go between Switzerland and Rotterdam and, and Belgium
and all that, and then did the army service. And
then I wanted to to go elsewhere. And I went
to South Africa first spent about two years in South Africa,
in Cape Town mainly, but also worked in a in
(07:41):
a diamond mine in Lesotho and was in Mozambique, Namibia
as well. And then because of the apartheid situation, I mean,
I had a good life, there's no question as a
young bloke there. But I thought long term that's not
so good. So I went through the process and I
came here to to Australia also always wanted to come
to WA because I knew he had started up with
(08:01):
mining up north and so I knew would have a job.
But then I came back by ship and when I
paid for the passage, I said, how much more would
it be to Melbourne or Sydney? She said, you pay
destination Australia. So I said, I'll stay. I'll stay on board.
And the Sydney Opera House was fairly new and everybody
spoke about it. And so I saw the Sydney Opera
(08:22):
House on a crisp morning in June in the early
70s or mid 70s, and it was a fantastic, fantastic
memory coming through the heads and then the blue sky
and that opera house there and then from from there.
I went on to, to help to build the railway
to Alice Springs, The Ghan. I was working in the
bush there and, and they also did a bit of
(08:44):
work for a Canadian nickel company in Sulawesi, Indonesia. And yeah,
then I met my wife and. Yeah, and now we
are here and we have three children and five grandchildren.
S1 (08:56):
Now there's another program you work on here at Vision
Australia Radio, which is a travel program.
S3 (09:02):
Correct.
S1 (09:03):
So tell me a bit about that.
S3 (09:04):
Yeah, actually, you see how it goes in life. It's
all circumstance because when we did the West Coast news program,
we normally do that in threes because it's a two
hour live program. So the two read this one. Host.
And then during Covid, we were only allowed to be
two in the in the studio for Bridget and Amber
who was here at the time. They said, look, if
it's much, you can just play an extra music piece.
(09:26):
So because nobody was traveling, I just had the idea.
We go on an island, escape at 9:15, said a
few things about the island, and then we had a
song that went with it. And then when Covid was
over and that had to go, it was a bit disappointed.
And then I thought, well, maybe I make a program
out of it. Not necessarily with islands. And it became
it became that travel show and it's called sights, Sounds
(09:49):
and Songs. And I went with the idea to to Gemma,
who was supportive and said, look, can you make us
three pilots? Um, to be aired over Christmas period. And
at the time it was called The Music Places Pottery.
And then when when it went on to, to become
a regular program, um, Gemma came up with the sights,
(10:10):
sounds and songs and again, a new show. The the
This side thing is also in there and my side
is s I t e s. So the sides that
you go and visit.
S2 (10:20):
I love that concept because it really strikes the two
things that people love, which is traveling. And then you
combine it with the sounds and some music and songs.
Tell us how the show works. Peter, you describe a
place and then you you combine some sounds with it.
How does.
S3 (10:37):
It work? So basically you go to 2 or 3 places, um,
we explore, we, we, we look at the food, we
look at the culture, the sights, and then we have
a piece of music to go with it. The idea
is also to have, if possible, um, how should I
say that a blind aspect in there. So we might,
we might look at somebody who is a tailor in Nairobi, who,
(11:02):
who is blind and how he was operating. At the moment,
I'm working on a circus theme, and I have found
an article of of a blind acrobat, so I try
to bring that into it if it fits. And sometimes
we also go with themes. So we had one just
going to the FIFA World Cup stadiums, for instance in Johannesburg,
(11:24):
Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires, this sort of thing.
S2 (11:26):
So tell us, Peter, when can people hear this show
and where and how can they find it?
S3 (11:31):
Okay, sights, sounds and songs because it's easy listening. It's
on a Sunday afternoon at 2:00. I think in Adelaide
it's at 1 or 130. So best if you're not
in Perth or in Melbourne to to check that out.
And then we have a repeat on 930 in the
evening on a Friday. You can't access it as a
podcast because of the music components in there. And and
(11:56):
so that's not that's not possible yet.
S2 (11:58):
So that's very much linked to what I was talking
about at the start of the program with tours. So
you're kind of creating a virtual audio tour of a
particular place and letting, um, the listener use their imagination
to go with you on this journey?
S3 (12:16):
Yes. It's not as. It's not as, um. How should
I say? Well developed as Ethan wants. And it's shorter.
It's quicker. And yeah, we go to about three places
because I want that the pace is quite high and
that we have different music. So it's not what I,
what I particularly like as a music, but I think
we had um, obviously about 300 songs so far in
(12:38):
different languages, and I think we covered 30 plus languages even, um,
you know, we had Mongolian, we had Malagasy, which is
the language of Madagascar, um, Burmese from Myanmar. And, and
so that is sometimes a bit hard to source. So
you can find me in the op shops.
S2 (12:56):
Okay. Very good.
S3 (12:57):
And guess what? I found the Mongolian album. I find
that in Pinjarra, in the op shop there of all places.
S1 (13:04):
Um, and the recent milestone that you've reached 100 programs?
S3 (13:08):
Yes. 100.
S1 (13:09):
Yeah. Congratulations on that. That's fantastic.
S3 (13:11):
Then when, um, I went with the idea with the
concept to Gemma, she said. Um, can you make us
26 episodes? So, you know, half, six months? Yeah, yeah.
And then I thought, I need to go to 50 and. Yeah.
And I enjoy it. But obviously the pressure is on
because you need one every week. And so you, you
(13:32):
produce one, but the next two are already up in
your head. And then as you go it changes because
all of a sudden you find the music that's better.
Instead of instead of Buenos Aires, you go to Rio
de Janeiro or something like that. So it's a constant
kind of of thing that's happening in your head. And
I think at our age, physical exercise is important and
maybe up in the gray matter as well.
S1 (13:54):
And that's the excitement, I guess, of putting together radio programs. Yes.
You're always kind of thinking ahead of, yeah, of where
you are at that time.
S2 (14:01):
So, Peter, tell us what it is that you get
from being a volunteer here at Vision Australia Radio and
how you would, might encourage other people to volunteer at
Vision Australia Radio and other services like this.
S3 (14:13):
Yeah. Look, it's really good to be a volunteer in
doing this because you hope that you reach people that
you normally wouldn't be able to reach and that it's
tailored to them. And, you know, I always say we
bring print to life when we when we read the
newspaper because we in that sense, we give them an
(14:34):
audio version of what's happening in the newspaper. And it's,
it's it's different. I think nobody else does that. We
are reading texts that are made for individual reading. You know,
you and you see when the direct speech, the quotes
are coming up, all this sort of thing. And we
try to to bring that to the listener who hasn't
(14:54):
got that text in front of them. And that at
times is difficult because, you know, the sentences might be long.
And but what I enjoy is I get up in
the morning, it gives me a structure as well. And
I hope that there are some people who say, oh,
it's Monday, it's that block is on again with the
with the lovely readers and, some might say I'm not
(15:14):
going to turn on on the Monday because I can't
stand that accent and that's okay as well. But yeah,
and it's a strange thing because you never quite know
how many people are listening out there. But there are
people and I've had I've had a comment when I
had started, somebody said, I heard you on the radio.
What are you doing on that radio there? And I said,
(15:36):
what are you doing listening to that radio station? And
she said, I brought it for a repair. And when
I drove out of the garage, it was tuned to
990 Am. And now I'm listening all the time to
990 Am. And that person is not blind. But obviously, um,
it brings that aspect to other people like you show.
(15:58):
There are lots of people who would be listening to
the show, maybe taxi drivers or people just commuting, and
then you reach those people because some people don't know
what that is, or your description or, you know, the paving,
the tactile stuff and all that brings hopefully people closer together.
S1 (16:15):
I used to be involved with three PP in Melbourne
about 30 years ago, and I would talk to people
about the station. They'd say, oh yeah, I listened to
three PP cos I've never got time to read the newspaper.
S3 (16:26):
There you.
S1 (16:26):
Go. And they love being read to and they're not
a person with vision impairment as you've described. It's quite
a remarkable service.
S3 (16:33):
Yeah. And I hope what I say, to come back
to your question, I hope I'm able to inform, entertain
the listener and hopefully brighten up their day. Um, you know,
maybe the magazine articles with the music that you come in,
maybe a small comment that you can make.
S2 (16:50):
Thanks for joining us here on In Plain Sight on
Vision Australia Radio. You're with me, Simon Chong, and my
co-host and producer Andrew Williams. And today we have a
special guest, Peter Stotzer, who is a volunteer reader on
Vision Australia Radio here in Perth. And we are having
a wonderful conversation and we'd like to thank Peter for
(17:10):
his time today.
S1 (17:11):
Now, Peter, you're a very keen cyclist. That's a bit
of an understatement, I have to say. I mean, you
cycle everywhere. Rain, hail or shine. Tell me about your.
When you know. I mean, we all started to ride
bikes as kids, basically. But, um, tell me about your
your cycling passion.
S3 (17:29):
Yeah. So, um, as you said, we we rode the
bikes as kids, and then, um, I started racing between
16 and 1920 before. Before I went to the Army
and then to to South Africa and enjoyed that. And
it was very competitive in Europe. And, uh, and then, yeah,
it went away because I was, as I said, I
(17:51):
work in construction and so forth. And then I came
back with 34 with the family we visited, um, you know,
the grandparents and my parents in France and Switzerland. And
there was my racing bike still in the basement. Right.
So I went to ride the big mountains. And when
I came back and I thought, you didn't even realize
(18:11):
you missed that when we came back here and went
to the bike shop and bought a racing bike, and
I said to the guy, uh, I don't know much
about the racing scene, is there anything here? And he said,
how old are you? He said, I said, 34. He said, ah,
no good. I said, why? I said, Because I'm organizing
all the master races. 35 and plus. But yeah. So
(18:31):
I went to the local Northern District Cycling club and
started racing there. Yeah. Then they built the velodrome. And, um,
as a kid, I always wanted to be on the velodrome.
That was not possible. Was too far away. And so
I raced the track out there a fair bit on
the road. It was much harder. And my back, my
biggest probably is fastest time in the Collie donnybrook, but
(18:54):
it was the slowest ever, fastest time, you know what
I mean? Because it was raining and icy cold. Yeah.
So yeah. And then the big break came for to
come back to the blind cycling at the club. They said, um,
they're looking for front riders to ride a tandem with
a blind or low vision riders, and they're going to
(19:18):
meet at the track on Saturday. So and so. And
I thought, wow. And they mentioned Paralympics.
S2 (19:23):
So when did you get started with that? Peter.
S3 (19:25):
That was in that was in the blind cycling was
in 1990. So it was two years or just under
two years before the Paralympics in Barcelona. So they started
recruiting early. So I remember it was a Saturday morning
and I actually had the flu and I didn't feel
like going. And I thought, well, if you don't go now,
you're never going to find out what this is about. Yeah.
(19:45):
So yeah, and I was teamed up with a young bloke,
Paul Clohesy, um, who later won a gold medal, I
think it was in Sydney in the sprint and he
was only 18. And, and Ken Norris, who is a
coach and he was a very good track rider here.
He has a good eye and he put Paul and
(20:05):
on myself together a similar build and all that. And yeah,
we did a good time over 1000m. The beauty on
the track is you can actually see where you are
internationally without having to travel and get the funding and
all that, because those times over 1000m, 200m to 4km pursuit,
that is all known. So you can see, oh, we
(20:27):
are fairly close or with better equipment we should get
very close. So yeah. And we trained and we got
going and then yeah sometimes you get disappointments. Um, with
about nine months to go, they said there won't be
any track races in Barcelona just yet. Too dangerous and
all that. And so that was cancelled. And then we
said we've done too much, now let's try the road
(20:48):
as well, which was not my speciality. So yeah, in
1992 we, we went to Barcelona. That was with the
blind section I think. Um, now it's different now it
is organised with the sports. At the time they had
the blind section, so you would have the blind in the,
in the, in the wheelchair maybe, or the blind swimmers,
(21:10):
the blind, the blind Sports, and then later on they
changed and it is now sports based. So if you
go for cycling, you have the tandem cyclists, you have
the amputees, you have the tricycles. So it's rather than
making a point of the disability, they make a point
of the sport you're doing and that's probably the better focus.
S1 (21:32):
Tell me about the the detail about how you actually
the communication between yourself and your, your partner. I guess
the mechanics.
S3 (21:41):
Are very important. And obviously if you know each other well,
so if you go out of the saddle, um, the
back rider will will know exactly. And and when I
reach for the bottle, he would also reach for the bottle, etc.,
but with with certain people, you have to say much more. Um,
with Paul Clohisy, it was minimal and I would just say,
(22:01):
I remember, um, in Barcelona on the on the third lap,
we were in third position, we came down and the
U-turn and we went up a cobbled road and we
were attacking. Two were attacking, we were in third position.
The other ones came past. I said, Paul, these are
the medals you get. Give it everything. This is it,
you know. And we couldn't hold the wheel and, uh.
And then as the front rider, you want them, you
(22:22):
gave you back. Right. The best position of. And so
I enjoyed that much more than single riding because you
actually ride for someone else and you're still very important
part of it. And so with him, it was minimal.
Just give us more. Do this, do that. And then
I was riding with and a lot of, uh, listeners
would probably recognize the name later on riding with Ron Anderson.
(22:44):
That was for the world Championship. That was much different because, um,
he was also much more mature. And he had done
a few things, so I involved him much more in
the tactics. I would say, should we try? Should we
try to attack next lap? I think that's our only chance.
What do you think in that sense? You know, and
sometimes also a bit of audio description up the front
(23:07):
that the Germans, then you have the French etc., because
he really enjoyed that. And so it also depends what
personality the other writer has. But often the communication is almost.
You feel it? Yes.
S2 (23:21):
You mentioned a few names there. That ring a bell
with me there, Peter? From my time with Blind Sports. Yes.
I probably finished by the time you started. Nowadays they
call the front writer of the pilot. Yes, I like
that terminology because you're guiding the bicycle. Now, for those
that don't know, some people look at tandem bike riding
and think, oh, hang on, the guy at the back
(23:43):
or the girl at the back is doing all the
work and the person in the front is just cruising.
But of course, that's not not the way it goes.
How long did it take you to adjust to to
writing or piloting a tandem bike, rather than what you've
been doing on a single bike?
S3 (23:58):
It actually, if if your position is is is a
is a good one. In other words, the front of
the bike is very close to what you are riding
a single. Then it's quite quick. And uh, when we
had selected to go to Barcelona on the road and
we actually had a tandem built here locally. So basically
(24:20):
the front of that tandem was my single bike, and
I didn't know the difference that Paul was at the back.
It was just it went through the corners beautiful. It
was it was just it's nice when, when, when you
know the material, everything is right. Yeah.
S2 (24:33):
So how long did you do that for, Peter?
S3 (24:35):
Um, probably about ten, 12 years. So in a way,
I started by going to the Paralympics. But then when
we came back, we did a lot of grassroot, um,
development at the track with a lot of, uh, um,
blind new riders and some stayed on. And then there
were also some recreational rights, but we would have some,
(24:59):
you know, some challenges with some handicaps as well. So
anybody who joined the, the, the movement would have a
chance of, of getting some reward, you know, and that
that went very well. So that was the grassroots one. And, um, yeah,
for about ten, 12 years. Yeah.
S2 (25:16):
Well, the tandem cycling movement here in Western Australia and
Australia in general is quite strong and prominent. For anyone listening,
I would highly recommend checking out Tandem Cycling and the
West Australian Tandem Cycling Association.
S3 (25:31):
Yeah.
S2 (25:33):
I can never remember all those.
S3 (25:34):
It's.
S2 (25:35):
Yeah, well, let it stand for you.
S3 (25:37):
Had the writer on about 6 or 7 months ago.
I heard it.
S2 (25:39):
That's right. Yeah. And they have competitive riding that happens
quite frequently. And they have lots of social events. And
you don't have to have your own bike. They they
have some tandem bikes that you can use. And they
have sighted people that are available to volunteer to ride
with you. So please, if that interests you at all,
please check it out and whenever you get a chance,
(26:01):
also look up tandem cycling at the highest level at
the Paralympics, especially in the velodrome. It is fascinating and
amazing and it has been adapted now tandem cycling. So
it's not just the blind and vision impaired who are
on a tandem bike. There are other people with other
physical disabilities that can't ride a single bike because of
their disability, and are now they've adapted it so that
(26:23):
they can do tandem bike riding. And anything in the Paralympics,
they have different categories. You're racing within a category within
your disability sector. If you are listening to the podcast,
we will put the link to the WA Tandem Cycling
Club Association up on our description to the podcast, so
you can find that there.
S1 (26:44):
Well, our time today has absolutely raced away Peter. So
it's been a fascinating chat with you today. So thank
you so much for coming into the studio, a place
which is very familiar to you. So thank you, Peter Stutzer,
for being our guest today.
S3 (27:00):
It's been an absolute pleasure. It's always great to talk
about the old times and the cycling and especially the
radio and, and here on In Plain Sight because you
reach so many people. So thank you for inviting me.
And maybe we can do it again one day. Who knows?
S1 (27:14):
Yes, it would be great fun. There'll be more stories
to tell.
S2 (27:16):
I'd like to thank you, Peter. Yeah. Thanks for coming
in today. And thanks for your valuable time. And thank
you in a general sense for your volunteering. I like
to always thank people who volunteer, especially those who are
doing in this sense. And for your time previously with, uh,
the tandem Cycling, it's a marvelous thing that you do.
S1 (27:34):
That's all we have time for on the program this week.
So thank you for your company over the last half hour.
Bye for now.
S4 (27:40):
Bye bye.
S3 (27:41):
Goodbye.
S1 (27:43):
Join us at the same time next week on Vision
Australia Radio, VA radio, digital and online at VA Radio.com.
You can also listen on demand by searching for In
Plain Sight by Vision Australia Radio. Wherever you get your podcasts,
or ask your smart device to play in Plain Sight
by Vision Australia Radio. Thanks for listening.
S4 (28:05):
Thank you.
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