August 26, 2025 • 28 mins
If you can move your arm or your hand, or express yourself no matter how minimally: you can dance.
We are delighted to be joined this week by the effervescent Rayna Lamb, a dynamic disability advocate and passionate dancer. Rayna shares her stories and experiences, from forming Women With Disabilities WA to performing in an upcoming groundbreaking production of The Little Mermaid.
To learn more about The Little Mermaid, or purchase tickets, click here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:17):
Hello, I'm Simon Chong and welcome to In Plain Sight,
a program where we highlight people who are making a
difference and impact within the disability sector and their community.
We shine a light on those who otherwise would be
hidden in plain sight, and it's a pleasure to bring
you these programmes on a weekly basis here on Vision
Australia Radio.
S2 (00:37):
Hello and welcome to the program. I'm Andrew Williams and
joining me in the studio is Simon Chong. How are
you this week, Simon?
S1 (00:45):
Hello, Andrew. I'm great. Always a pleasure to be in
the studio and to talk with you and to talk
to our great guests that we have every week. It's
a privilege and an honour to provide these programs, and
I'm really glad to do so with you, Andrew. How's
things been with you, Andrew?
S2 (01:00):
Pretty good. It's been a very busy week. Always busy
with the choir that I sing with and busy in
preparing the program this week.
S1 (01:09):
And this week. Our guest is Raina Lam. She's a
disability advocate, but her passion is dancing. And I'm not
a passionate dancer, but I have other passions, and I
always love to see people who express themselves in whatever
creative field it is. And I know sports can be
creative as well, and I do enjoy sports, but it's
(01:30):
the creative and performing arts that I really enjoy learning about,
and I can see how much that gives people. It's
just fabulous, isn't it, Andrew?
S2 (01:40):
It is. Yeah. I mean, the creative and performing arts
is a is a great thing. It's a great outlet.
I've done a little bit of performing in my time,
but it's tremendous. Listening to Rayna and her passion about
performing and dancing in particular, it is.
S1 (01:55):
And as I said within the conversation with Rayna, that
this program actually ties together a number of the guests
that we've had on the program over the time. And
even as recently as the conversation I had with William
Morgan a little while ago, who sings in the pride
choir and the joy and passion that he expressed while
(02:17):
talking about his ability to express himself creatively through the
singing was just a marvelous thing to behold.
S2 (02:26):
Yeah, indeed. And one of the things he said, of course,
was the fact that if you can talk, you can sing. Mhm. Um,
you don't have to necessarily have a, you know, an
operatically trained voice to be able to, you know, think
you can sing in public. Um, that's a great thing
about singing with a choir as well. I certainly fall
into that category. I'd be terrified of singing solo, but
(02:47):
singing with a choir is just a fantastic, fantastic experience,
and everybody singing together just brings so much joy.
S1 (02:55):
It does. And without giving away too much of what
we talked about in the interview with Rayna Lamm is
that she spoke a little bit about that type of
thing as well. And to paraphrase something, she said, if
you can move your arm, your hand, or express yourself
just however minimally you can dance. And she uses an
(03:15):
electric wheelchair, so she's found a way of expressing her
creative dance spirit within the electric wheelchair environment. And it's
a great thing. And also, just to remind people, the
program that we're talking about is the theater production of
Little Mermaid by Patrick Goonesekera. And that will be held
(03:36):
in Perth in November. Look up all the details for
that online. And also just a reminder, as we spoke
about a little while ago, that Patrick is also advertising
that he is doing specific dance lessons for people with disabilities.
And again, look up Patrick Goonesekera online and find out
the details of where to find his dance classes, because
(03:57):
he really has a great insight into into what is
required to help people with a disability to express themselves
in the form of dance and creativity. So here's the
interview with Rowena. Now. Thanks for joining us again this week.
And our guest this week is Raina Lam. Now get
(04:17):
Raina to describe a little bit about herself. She is
a long term disability advocate and a champion for the
disability rights. Also a performer and a dancer. So that
we'd like to welcome Raina to the studio today. Hello, Raina.
S3 (04:30):
Hello, Simon. Thanks very much for having me on the show.
S1 (04:33):
It's a pleasure to see you. And it's. I'm really
grateful that you could come in and talk to us now.
I believe that you were one of the founders of
women with disabilities in Western Australia.
S3 (04:43):
Yes, yes, I was the original founder of women with
disabilities WA. It was a not for profit organisation run
by women with disabilities for women with disabilities. It ran
for about 15 years. And you know, we did a
lot of, um, systemic advocacy, sort of educating medical professionals
(05:06):
and the general community about issues.
S1 (05:08):
So the organization doesn't exist anymore.
S3 (05:11):
Ah, no I don't. I stepped back from it in 2018.
I was having a lot of health problems and my
body sort of went, ah, okay, you've done too much.
You have to stop doing stuff. Um, and, uh, unfortunately,
what I've discovered as I've grown older and I think also, um,
(05:36):
what some of your other guests have alluded to as
they're all colleagues and friends of mine, is that as
you get older with a disability, things start falling apart
physically and you don't bounce back the way you used to.
So I, like so many of us did, probably more
than my body should have let me do. Because, you know,
(05:58):
there's so much to do in our community. There's advocating
for for our rights and for access to the community
educating um, Uh, the non-disabled community and just that sort
of I think that informal peer support that we all do. Yeah. Um.
S1 (06:15):
Very important.
S3 (06:16):
Basically, keep each other going.
S1 (06:18):
What's the nature of your disability?
S3 (06:19):
Uh, so I have cerebral palsy. It's neurological and physical disability. Um,
I was born with brain damage. Uh, at a very
early stage in, in, um, my gestation. So I was
born three months early in the mid 70s in New Zealand.
It was very dramatic. They thought I was going to die, um,
(06:42):
sort of thing. But it turned out that I did
live and I have cerebral palsy as a consequence, um,
which affects me mostly physically. Uh, you know, I'm not
good at sort of dry. I can't drive a car
because I can't tell where things are in relation to me.
S1 (07:02):
But the effects of the cerebral palsy changed since you
were young.
S3 (07:07):
Oh, yes. Yeah. They didn't know about this in the
70s and 80s. But for people with cerebral palsy, it's
not the original. Brain damage doesn't deteriorate. But our bodies
wear down quicker. So I first started seeing effects of
that in my mid to late 20s. And also another
(07:31):
thing which I'm hoping the younger generations won't have to
deal with as much is, in my generation, sort of
the Gen X people with cerebral palsy, the prevailing treatment
at the time was basically force us to be as
normal as possible and keep up with everyone else, which
(07:52):
our bodies weren't designed to do. Um, and they did
find out, you know, they did research about 20 or
30 years ago and went, oh, okay. So it turns
out that people with cerebral palsy are any of the
physical movements we do. Takes 2 to 3 times more
physical energy than it would for a non-disabled person. So we're,
(08:17):
you know, we're operating on less energy or physical energy
all around, which is, you know, when you're young, you
don't realize this. And you just, you know, you keep
going because, you know, kids are resilient and kids, you know,
want to keep up and with with everyone. And, um,
(08:37):
but as you know, as time has gone by, that
overuse of energy has meant, you know, we get tired a,
you know, a lot easier. And, um, which, which is honestly,
that's the bit I really don't like. I don't like
because I'm naturally a high energy person. And there's lots
of things I want to do, and there's lots of
(08:58):
things I want to say and people to talk to and, um,
things to explore. And my body will just get to
a point where he goes, no, you're not doing that anymore.
S1 (09:07):
How did you initially get involved with being an advocate
for people with disabilities when you were involved with women
with Disabilities Australia?
S3 (09:15):
Well, that actually that that was over 20 years ago now. So, um,
I'm really having to, um, you know, force my memory
to dig up some stuff. But at the time, I
think it was about 29. And up until that age,
I actually hadn't spent a lot of time around other
(09:36):
people with disability. Um, and that's the function of, I
think my, the way my generation, our generation, um, of,
of people with disabilities were brought up. It was that
whole mainstreaming thing which was be part of the wider community.
So I went to a, a normal I'm saying this
(09:59):
with the requisite quoting marks normal. I went to a standard, um,
School mainstreaming. There was basically they sort of dropped you
in it and you had to fight and sink or swim.
So I actually hadn't. And there was I got that
attitude from a very, very young age that, you know,
it was better to be around non-disabled people and, and
(10:21):
pretend I was not disabled, which was kind of difficult
because I was quite disabled and I was very visibly disabled.
And but, you know, in the 80s, that was a
very sort of, um, you know, that that was what
parents were told. And, you know, everyone was told was,
(10:41):
you know, treat them like they're normal and, well, for starters,
nobody's normal. Every you know, we've all got our own peculiarities. But,
you know, it was that expectation that you, you know,
do everything the way non-disabled people do it, which I did.
And that was very exhausting and very difficult and very stressful.
(11:04):
So I didn't spend a lot. And so I was
given the message quite early that I shouldn't be around
other disabled people.
S1 (11:11):
So if you were talking to somebody with a disability
in their early teens, let's just say, what would you
tell them about the importance or otherwise of being connected
with other people with a similar disability?
S3 (11:25):
I would say it's it would make all the difference
in the world, because I think all for all of
us who are born with disabilities, the teen years were
particularly bad. Puberty was horrible. Um, you know, you get
to that point where you're getting more independent and you're
looking out into the world and you're wanting to be
(11:46):
a part of the world. And as a young person,
you don't see yourself out there, you know, as a
young disabled person, and particularly when it comes to things
like relationships, you know, and even even employment. And it's hard.
And for anyone, that period of life is difficult. Um,
(12:08):
being a teenager is horrible. You couldn't pay me to
do it again. Um, but being a teenager with a
disability means you not only have to deal with the
changes in your world, the changes in your body, but
you you get really faced with the way the outside
world sees you. And, you know, you get all these
(12:30):
really unpleasant messages which, you know, a lot of sort
of attitudes that that can be quite confronting. And for me,
I and I think a lot of us who have
very visible disabilities, we had to get used to at
a young age to that, that look you get from
(12:52):
non-disabled people when you're moving around in the world. And
all I can describe is, is it's a look of
revulsion and that's really hard to cope with. Yeah. Um, so,
you know, it would have made a difference if I'd
had disabled peers. And also, it has to be disabled
friends that you have things in common with that aren't
(13:15):
just your disability. Yeah. Because there's plenty of people here
in Perth. I know many people with disabilities. There's many
of us, many people with disabilities who are sporty. And
I mean, they're very nice people.
S1 (13:29):
There's been a common thread due to my bias with
the people that I've interviewed, is that finding like minded
people that also happen to have a similar disability or
impairment or health issue as yourself can be so rewarding. Um,
and it can help alleviate the isolation many people might
(13:49):
face or that that sense of being different. I've met
so many people that have said that, that until they
met another person who was blind or deaf or had
cerebral palsy. Didn't realize that they weren't as special and
as unique and weird as they originally thought.
S3 (14:05):
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I often tell people that as
far as it goes, my depression is has adversely affected
my life in a bigger way. Um, I, like I said,
I didn't really didn't make it to this age. You know,
in a lot of ways my depression is more severe
(14:27):
than my cerebral palsy. But people can't see the depression. So,
you know, they don't know it's there. I would caution people, though,
particularly our disabled peers who are struggling with mental health
issues and depression and mental illness, is that when you
deal with mainstream, um, mental health support, you can run
(14:53):
the risk of encountering people who will inadvertently make things
worse because their focus on your disability can often be quite.
S1 (15:04):
Um, well, they'll.
S3 (15:05):
Trivialize.
S1 (15:05):
It. They're saying, well, you've got a disability. No wonder
you're depressed.
S3 (15:08):
Yes. And actually, no, that wasn't why I was. I mean,
it was part of why I was depressed. But, you know,
for me, I absolutely. If I was able bodied, I
would still struggle with depression. Um, because I grew up
in a very abusive family environment, and that is. I mean,
I'm actually more physically disabled now than I've ever been.
(15:31):
And my mental health has been better than it has
ever been. Because.
S1 (15:36):
Because? Yes.
S3 (15:37):
Because most of my friends are other disabled people, you know,
most of them. You've you've interviewed most of them.
S1 (15:47):
Small community here in Perth.
S3 (15:48):
It's a very small community. We have to all get
on and the connections I've made since. Getting into. And
so that was my primary reason, I think, for starting
women with disabilities wa.
S2 (16:02):
You're listening to. In Plain Sight on Vision Australia Radio
with Simon Chong and me, Andrew Williams. Our guest this
week is passionate dance performer Raina Lam. And now it's
back to Simon and Raina with their conversation.
S1 (16:17):
Talking about your physical and mental health there and gender
roles and so on. Now you're part of Patrick and
Sakura's performance of The Little Mermaid. I was wondering if
you could tell us a little bit about that and
how you got involved in it, and what's your role
within that?
S3 (16:31):
One of the things, um, a lot of people who
know me say, number one, Raina talks a lot. Number two,
Raina loves dance, and I do. I've always loved to dance,
even before I started using a wheelchair. I learnt to
waltz at school. Um, when I was in my teens,
I did struggle because walking backwards is quite difficult when
(16:54):
you've got bad balance. And, um, Dance is always something
I've loved so much my whole life, and I started
off in my life walking and very difficult walking, sort
of wobbly and falling over a lot. And then I
started using a mobility scooter in my late teens, and
then I went from a mobility scooter to an electric wheelchair.
(17:16):
And one of the things I love about using my
electric wheelchair is I can spin in circles, and I'm
being very well behaved and resisting the urge to actually
demonstrate that right this very second.
S1 (17:28):
Yes. Thank you.
S3 (17:29):
But, um, because I'm a grown up, we're doing this interview,
and I realized I can dance. Um, so there's not
a lot or. There wasn't a lot when I first
started using a wheelchair for dancing for wheelchair users in Perth.
But over the last few years, I've done ballroom dance.
(17:50):
That didn't work out very well. And then one day
I got a phone call from Sam Jenkinson and she
linked me up with Patrick. He said he was looking
for someone to dance in his ballet who had the
exact attributes. I have basically wheelchair user in their 50s,
(18:11):
white female with an experience of family and violence and
abuse and I went, hey, that's me. Also, I'm really
miss dancing because I went for a few years without
dancing because I'd gotten very sick. And so I was
very happy to get back. And what I love most
about Patrick's project is it is a dance project. It
(18:34):
is a ballet that is conceived and developed and produced
by a disabled dancer, and the experience of being taught
and working with a choreographer who's disabled themselves. It's just extraordinary.
S1 (18:54):
So what's your role in the ballet?
S3 (18:55):
I play the sea Queen, which is who is essentially
the mother of the main character, the Little Mermaid, and
also of Little Mermaid's older sibling. And, uh, which is
is wonderful because it's not a big role. So I'm
not on stage a lot, but it is just enough
(19:16):
for me to, to, to, you know, be a part
of things and to enjoy myself and to show what
I can do. But it's not so much that I
would get too tired. I'm the oldest in the cast.
The most of them are in their late teens or
early 20s. I think there might be someone in their 30s.
(19:37):
So there's a huge age discrepancy there. And I just
love working with this young cast who've got an entirely
different attitude towards disability and disability rights and advocacy than
our generation had. And this. They're doing it so much better.
(19:57):
They're not burning themselves out. And Patrick's wonderful. He's really
good on making sure that people do the sustainable sustainably
and don't exhaust themselves, which is good because I have
a tendency to push myself. And when it's something like
this that I love as much as I love to dance.
That was a bit of a risk. But yeah, it's
(20:20):
wonderful to see this project come to fruition where about nine,
8 or 9 weeks away from the from the season
that we'll be doing this three week season at the
Blue Room in November. That's Tuesdays and Thursdays and matinee
on a Saturday. So it's done very sustainably. Patrick had
(20:41):
discussed with us how many shows we all thought we
could do a week, and my response was, well, not
one show, then another show the next night, then another show.
There has to be at least a day Yesterday between shows,
and I think we all agreed on that. But I
don't have to educate anyone because Patrick knows I don't
have to deal with anyone else's response to my disability. Great.
(21:03):
No one's telling me I'm inspirational or brave or how
much they've learned from me. Because honestly, at this point,
I don't care what non-disabled people learn from me. I'm
not your free education bot.
S1 (21:17):
Yeah, yeah.
S3 (21:18):
You know that you call inspirational enough and I'll spit
out some profound wisdom because I'm just I'm just a
person like anyone else, and I just, I prefer honestly,
at this point, I prefer being around other disabled people
because we can just be ourselves and we don't have
to be brave or no, you know, and we and
(21:40):
we can just be dickheads together and be silly or
just relax.
S1 (21:48):
Yeah. I just wanted to make mention about the performance
of Little Mermaid by Patrick Goonesekera. That Raina is going
to be performing in. It also features the music composed
by Tiffany Harr, who we had on the program some
months back, who actually alerted us to the fact that
she was going to be performing some of the music
for this ballet, this theater piece. I just wanted to
(22:10):
acknowledge that thanks to Tiffany for getting this whole ball
rolling about the knowledge about Patrick's great performance. Now, unfortunately,
our time is running out very quickly. Raina, um, it's
been great to meet you. You've certainly got a lovely
energy about you. And you're very enthusiastic about everything that
you're doing. By the looks. You just said you didn't
(22:31):
want to educate the general public about disability, but what
sort of things would you like to tell other people
with disabilities, especially if they're new to their disability or
are still learning how to live within the disability world?
Is there anything you'd like to say around that?
S3 (22:50):
Oh, yes, very much so. Looking back, one thing I
wish I knew, and people did tell me this, but
I didn't listen. Um, but, um, I would really like
younger people or newer people with disabilities to know that
you can rest. You don't have to be doing things
all the time. You don't have to meet the non-disabled
(23:12):
world's expectations of what how much you should be doing.
And quite honestly, I don't think the non-disabled community should
be doing pushing themselves the way they're doing either. Rest.
Because otherwise you burn out. And I did that. And
so many of the people I know, we both know
have burnt out at various points, and that's why we stopped.
(23:36):
But rest and also find the thing that makes you
really happy.
S1 (23:40):
Yes.
S3 (23:40):
And do it. I was very, very depressed and very
sad for a long time. But my joy in life,
as everyone knows, is is dance and that makes me happy.
It's winter now and I hate winter. I don't like it.
I usually don't do anything. But winter is easier when
I'm dancing, so Patrick's going to have to develop something
(24:03):
else next year for me to be in. And the
year after that, just for winter.
S1 (24:09):
Oh, great. Great. So apart from the theatre and ballet
piece that you're involved with, is there anything else that
you're involved with currently that you'd like to either tell
us about or promote?
S3 (24:18):
Um, no, I think mostly that's it. Although I will
say I did start singing lessons earlier on this year.
And again, that's something that gives me great joy and
it's something I've always wanted to do. And I, a
couple of dear friends, have died earlier this year. They've
had disabilities and they've died in their 50s and 60s.
(24:40):
And I've seen other disabled friends who've developed, um, cancers
and other life limiting Diseases. And we as a community,
we don't always have as long as we would in
this world as if we were able bodied. So we've
got to do things that give us joy. Don't just
(25:02):
try and be a crappy version of a non-disabled person.
Be a fabulous.
S1 (25:07):
And I think you just hit the nail on the
head there. And this goes for everybody. Don't wait for
the right time to do something. Create the right time
to do what it is that you want to do.
Don't let time slip away without being the person that
you'd always wanted to be. Find out what that is
and go for it and do it. I know I'm
(25:28):
saying that through motivation, through inspiration, from people that have
gone in the past, that I respect and honor and
my heart is still with. So thanks for reminding us
about that, Rayna. Well, I think that's nearly time for
us today, everybody. And Rayna. So I'd like to thank
you for joining us for this really fun and lively conversation.
(25:49):
It's amazing how quickly time goes when when you're having fun.
S3 (25:54):
It is. And thank you so much for having me on. Um,
it's been lots of fun.
S1 (25:59):
So just before we finish, tell everyone again where we
can find the Little Mermaid Theatre ballet performance coming up.
S3 (26:07):
It's on through November. It's at the Blue Room in
in the city. In in Northbridge. And, yeah, it's it's
going to be a lot of fun. Um, and we're
also going to be doing it's not just a live performance.
We're also going to be filming, um, a dress rehearsal
so that we can provide people with a live stream version.
(26:29):
So if you can't leave the house or you can't
get to to the Blue Room, there will be an
option for you to buy a ticket to see the
live stream.
S1 (26:39):
Great. Well, thanks very much, Raina, and thanks everyone for listening.
And I just wanted to say, whilst I finish up
anything that we've talked about on this program. Go back
and find out more about it, because most of the
topics we've discussed here today with Raina, we've discussed in
other areas on other other podcasts that I've released throughout
the time on this program. That's all we have time
(27:00):
for this week, folks. Join us again on In Plain
Sight and Vision Australia and hope to catch you then.
Bye for now.
S2 (27:16):
That concludes in Plain Sight for this week. Join us
at the same time next week on Vision Australia Radio,
VA radio Digital and online at VA Radio.com. You can
also listen on demand by searching for In Plain Sight
by Vision Australia Radio. Wherever you get your podcasts, or
ask your smart device to play in Plain sight by
(27:38):
Vision Australia Radio. Thanks for listening.
S1 (27:40):
Thank you.
Hello, I'm Simon Chong and welcome to In Plain Sight,
a program where we highlight people who are making a
difference and impact within the disability sector and their community.
We shine a light on those who otherwise would be
hidden in plain sight, and it's a pleasure to bring
you these programmes on a weekly basis here on Vision
Australia Radio.
S2 (00:37):
Hello and welcome to the program. I'm Andrew Williams and
joining me in the studio is Simon Chong. How are
you this week, Simon?
S1 (00:45):
Hello, Andrew. I'm great. Always a pleasure to be in
the studio and to talk with you and to talk
to our great guests that we have every week. It's
a privilege and an honour to provide these programs, and
I'm really glad to do so with you, Andrew. How's
things been with you, Andrew?
S2 (01:00):
Pretty good. It's been a very busy week. Always busy
with the choir that I sing with and busy in
preparing the program this week.
S1 (01:09):
And this week. Our guest is Raina Lam. She's a
disability advocate, but her passion is dancing. And I'm not
a passionate dancer, but I have other passions, and I
always love to see people who express themselves in whatever
creative field it is. And I know sports can be
creative as well, and I do enjoy sports, but it's
(01:30):
the creative and performing arts that I really enjoy learning about,
and I can see how much that gives people. It's
just fabulous, isn't it, Andrew?
S2 (01:40):
It is. Yeah. I mean, the creative and performing arts
is a is a great thing. It's a great outlet.
I've done a little bit of performing in my time,
but it's tremendous. Listening to Rayna and her passion about
performing and dancing in particular, it is.
S1 (01:55):
And as I said within the conversation with Rayna, that
this program actually ties together a number of the guests
that we've had on the program over the time. And
even as recently as the conversation I had with William
Morgan a little while ago, who sings in the pride
choir and the joy and passion that he expressed while
(02:17):
talking about his ability to express himself creatively through the
singing was just a marvelous thing to behold.
S2 (02:26):
Yeah, indeed. And one of the things he said, of course,
was the fact that if you can talk, you can sing. Mhm. Um,
you don't have to necessarily have a, you know, an
operatically trained voice to be able to, you know, think
you can sing in public. Um, that's a great thing
about singing with a choir as well. I certainly fall
into that category. I'd be terrified of singing solo, but
(02:47):
singing with a choir is just a fantastic, fantastic experience,
and everybody singing together just brings so much joy.
S1 (02:55):
It does. And without giving away too much of what
we talked about in the interview with Rayna Lamm is
that she spoke a little bit about that type of
thing as well. And to paraphrase something, she said, if
you can move your arm, your hand, or express yourself
just however minimally you can dance. And she uses an
(03:15):
electric wheelchair, so she's found a way of expressing her
creative dance spirit within the electric wheelchair environment. And it's
a great thing. And also, just to remind people, the
program that we're talking about is the theater production of
Little Mermaid by Patrick Goonesekera. And that will be held
(03:36):
in Perth in November. Look up all the details for
that online. And also just a reminder, as we spoke
about a little while ago, that Patrick is also advertising
that he is doing specific dance lessons for people with disabilities.
And again, look up Patrick Goonesekera online and find out
the details of where to find his dance classes, because
(03:57):
he really has a great insight into into what is
required to help people with a disability to express themselves
in the form of dance and creativity. So here's the
interview with Rowena. Now. Thanks for joining us again this week.
And our guest this week is Raina Lam. Now get
(04:17):
Raina to describe a little bit about herself. She is
a long term disability advocate and a champion for the
disability rights. Also a performer and a dancer. So that
we'd like to welcome Raina to the studio today. Hello, Raina.
S3 (04:30):
Hello, Simon. Thanks very much for having me on the show.
S1 (04:33):
It's a pleasure to see you. And it's. I'm really
grateful that you could come in and talk to us now.
I believe that you were one of the founders of
women with disabilities in Western Australia.
S3 (04:43):
Yes, yes, I was the original founder of women with
disabilities WA. It was a not for profit organisation run
by women with disabilities for women with disabilities. It ran
for about 15 years. And you know, we did a
lot of, um, systemic advocacy, sort of educating medical professionals
(05:06):
and the general community about issues.
S1 (05:08):
So the organization doesn't exist anymore.
S3 (05:11):
Ah, no I don't. I stepped back from it in 2018.
I was having a lot of health problems and my
body sort of went, ah, okay, you've done too much.
You have to stop doing stuff. Um, and, uh, unfortunately,
what I've discovered as I've grown older and I think also, um,
(05:36):
what some of your other guests have alluded to as
they're all colleagues and friends of mine, is that as
you get older with a disability, things start falling apart
physically and you don't bounce back the way you used to.
So I, like so many of us did, probably more
than my body should have let me do. Because, you know,
(05:58):
there's so much to do in our community. There's advocating
for for our rights and for access to the community
educating um, Uh, the non-disabled community and just that sort
of I think that informal peer support that we all do. Yeah. Um.
S1 (06:15):
Very important.
S3 (06:16):
Basically, keep each other going.
S1 (06:18):
What's the nature of your disability?
S3 (06:19):
Uh, so I have cerebral palsy. It's neurological and physical disability. Um,
I was born with brain damage. Uh, at a very
early stage in, in, um, my gestation. So I was
born three months early in the mid 70s in New Zealand.
It was very dramatic. They thought I was going to die, um,
(06:42):
sort of thing. But it turned out that I did
live and I have cerebral palsy as a consequence, um,
which affects me mostly physically. Uh, you know, I'm not
good at sort of dry. I can't drive a car
because I can't tell where things are in relation to me.
S1 (07:02):
But the effects of the cerebral palsy changed since you
were young.
S3 (07:07):
Oh, yes. Yeah. They didn't know about this in the
70s and 80s. But for people with cerebral palsy, it's
not the original. Brain damage doesn't deteriorate. But our bodies
wear down quicker. So I first started seeing effects of
that in my mid to late 20s. And also another
(07:31):
thing which I'm hoping the younger generations won't have to
deal with as much is, in my generation, sort of
the Gen X people with cerebral palsy, the prevailing treatment
at the time was basically force us to be as
normal as possible and keep up with everyone else, which
(07:52):
our bodies weren't designed to do. Um, and they did
find out, you know, they did research about 20 or
30 years ago and went, oh, okay. So it turns
out that people with cerebral palsy are any of the
physical movements we do. Takes 2 to 3 times more
physical energy than it would for a non-disabled person. So we're,
(08:17):
you know, we're operating on less energy or physical energy
all around, which is, you know, when you're young, you
don't realize this. And you just, you know, you keep
going because, you know, kids are resilient and kids, you know,
want to keep up and with with everyone. And, um,
(08:37):
but as you know, as time has gone by, that
overuse of energy has meant, you know, we get tired a,
you know, a lot easier. And, um, which, which is honestly,
that's the bit I really don't like. I don't like
because I'm naturally a high energy person. And there's lots
of things I want to do, and there's lots of
(08:58):
things I want to say and people to talk to and, um,
things to explore. And my body will just get to
a point where he goes, no, you're not doing that anymore.
S1 (09:07):
How did you initially get involved with being an advocate
for people with disabilities when you were involved with women
with Disabilities Australia?
S3 (09:15):
Well, that actually that that was over 20 years ago now. So, um,
I'm really having to, um, you know, force my memory
to dig up some stuff. But at the time, I
think it was about 29. And up until that age,
I actually hadn't spent a lot of time around other
(09:36):
people with disability. Um, and that's the function of, I
think my, the way my generation, our generation, um, of,
of people with disabilities were brought up. It was that
whole mainstreaming thing which was be part of the wider community.
So I went to a, a normal I'm saying this
(09:59):
with the requisite quoting marks normal. I went to a standard, um,
School mainstreaming. There was basically they sort of dropped you
in it and you had to fight and sink or swim.
So I actually hadn't. And there was I got that
attitude from a very, very young age that, you know,
it was better to be around non-disabled people and, and
(10:21):
pretend I was not disabled, which was kind of difficult
because I was quite disabled and I was very visibly disabled.
And but, you know, in the 80s, that was a
very sort of, um, you know, that that was what
parents were told. And, you know, everyone was told was,
(10:41):
you know, treat them like they're normal and, well, for starters,
nobody's normal. Every you know, we've all got our own peculiarities. But,
you know, it was that expectation that you, you know,
do everything the way non-disabled people do it, which I did.
And that was very exhausting and very difficult and very stressful.
(11:04):
So I didn't spend a lot. And so I was
given the message quite early that I shouldn't be around
other disabled people.
S1 (11:11):
So if you were talking to somebody with a disability
in their early teens, let's just say, what would you
tell them about the importance or otherwise of being connected
with other people with a similar disability?
S3 (11:25):
I would say it's it would make all the difference
in the world, because I think all for all of
us who are born with disabilities, the teen years were
particularly bad. Puberty was horrible. Um, you know, you get
to that point where you're getting more independent and you're
looking out into the world and you're wanting to be
(11:46):
a part of the world. And as a young person,
you don't see yourself out there, you know, as a
young disabled person, and particularly when it comes to things
like relationships, you know, and even even employment. And it's hard.
And for anyone, that period of life is difficult. Um,
(12:08):
being a teenager is horrible. You couldn't pay me to
do it again. Um, but being a teenager with a
disability means you not only have to deal with the
changes in your world, the changes in your body, but
you you get really faced with the way the outside
world sees you. And, you know, you get all these
(12:30):
really unpleasant messages which, you know, a lot of sort
of attitudes that that can be quite confronting. And for me,
I and I think a lot of us who have
very visible disabilities, we had to get used to at
a young age to that, that look you get from
(12:52):
non-disabled people when you're moving around in the world. And
all I can describe is, is it's a look of
revulsion and that's really hard to cope with. Yeah. Um, so,
you know, it would have made a difference if I'd
had disabled peers. And also, it has to be disabled
friends that you have things in common with that aren't
(13:15):
just your disability. Yeah. Because there's plenty of people here
in Perth. I know many people with disabilities. There's many
of us, many people with disabilities who are sporty. And
I mean, they're very nice people.
S1 (13:29):
There's been a common thread due to my bias with
the people that I've interviewed, is that finding like minded
people that also happen to have a similar disability or
impairment or health issue as yourself can be so rewarding. Um,
and it can help alleviate the isolation many people might
(13:49):
face or that that sense of being different. I've met
so many people that have said that, that until they
met another person who was blind or deaf or had
cerebral palsy. Didn't realize that they weren't as special and
as unique and weird as they originally thought.
S3 (14:05):
Yeah, you're absolutely right. I often tell people that as
far as it goes, my depression is has adversely affected
my life in a bigger way. Um, I, like I said,
I didn't really didn't make it to this age. You know,
in a lot of ways my depression is more severe
(14:27):
than my cerebral palsy. But people can't see the depression. So,
you know, they don't know it's there. I would caution people, though,
particularly our disabled peers who are struggling with mental health
issues and depression and mental illness, is that when you
deal with mainstream, um, mental health support, you can run
(14:53):
the risk of encountering people who will inadvertently make things
worse because their focus on your disability can often be quite.
S1 (15:04):
Um, well, they'll.
S3 (15:05):
Trivialize.
S1 (15:05):
It. They're saying, well, you've got a disability. No wonder
you're depressed.
S3 (15:08):
Yes. And actually, no, that wasn't why I was. I mean,
it was part of why I was depressed. But, you know,
for me, I absolutely. If I was able bodied, I
would still struggle with depression. Um, because I grew up
in a very abusive family environment, and that is. I mean,
I'm actually more physically disabled now than I've ever been.
(15:31):
And my mental health has been better than it has
ever been. Because.
S1 (15:36):
Because? Yes.
S3 (15:37):
Because most of my friends are other disabled people, you know,
most of them. You've you've interviewed most of them.
S1 (15:47):
Small community here in Perth.
S3 (15:48):
It's a very small community. We have to all get
on and the connections I've made since. Getting into. And
so that was my primary reason, I think, for starting
women with disabilities wa.
S2 (16:02):
You're listening to. In Plain Sight on Vision Australia Radio
with Simon Chong and me, Andrew Williams. Our guest this
week is passionate dance performer Raina Lam. And now it's
back to Simon and Raina with their conversation.
S1 (16:17):
Talking about your physical and mental health there and gender
roles and so on. Now you're part of Patrick and
Sakura's performance of The Little Mermaid. I was wondering if
you could tell us a little bit about that and
how you got involved in it, and what's your role
within that?
S3 (16:31):
One of the things, um, a lot of people who
know me say, number one, Raina talks a lot. Number two,
Raina loves dance, and I do. I've always loved to dance,
even before I started using a wheelchair. I learnt to
waltz at school. Um, when I was in my teens,
I did struggle because walking backwards is quite difficult when
(16:54):
you've got bad balance. And, um, Dance is always something
I've loved so much my whole life, and I started
off in my life walking and very difficult walking, sort
of wobbly and falling over a lot. And then I
started using a mobility scooter in my late teens, and
then I went from a mobility scooter to an electric wheelchair.
(17:16):
And one of the things I love about using my
electric wheelchair is I can spin in circles, and I'm
being very well behaved and resisting the urge to actually
demonstrate that right this very second.
S1 (17:28):
Yes. Thank you.
S3 (17:29):
But, um, because I'm a grown up, we're doing this interview,
and I realized I can dance. Um, so there's not
a lot or. There wasn't a lot when I first
started using a wheelchair for dancing for wheelchair users in Perth.
But over the last few years, I've done ballroom dance.
(17:50):
That didn't work out very well. And then one day
I got a phone call from Sam Jenkinson and she
linked me up with Patrick. He said he was looking
for someone to dance in his ballet who had the
exact attributes. I have basically wheelchair user in their 50s,
(18:11):
white female with an experience of family and violence and
abuse and I went, hey, that's me. Also, I'm really
miss dancing because I went for a few years without
dancing because I'd gotten very sick. And so I was
very happy to get back. And what I love most
about Patrick's project is it is a dance project. It
(18:34):
is a ballet that is conceived and developed and produced
by a disabled dancer, and the experience of being taught
and working with a choreographer who's disabled themselves. It's just extraordinary.
S1 (18:54):
So what's your role in the ballet?
S3 (18:55):
I play the sea Queen, which is who is essentially
the mother of the main character, the Little Mermaid, and
also of Little Mermaid's older sibling. And, uh, which is
is wonderful because it's not a big role. So I'm
not on stage a lot, but it is just enough
(19:16):
for me to, to, to, you know, be a part
of things and to enjoy myself and to show what
I can do. But it's not so much that I
would get too tired. I'm the oldest in the cast.
The most of them are in their late teens or
early 20s. I think there might be someone in their 30s.
(19:37):
So there's a huge age discrepancy there. And I just
love working with this young cast who've got an entirely
different attitude towards disability and disability rights and advocacy than
our generation had. And this. They're doing it so much better.
(19:57):
They're not burning themselves out. And Patrick's wonderful. He's really
good on making sure that people do the sustainable sustainably
and don't exhaust themselves, which is good because I have
a tendency to push myself. And when it's something like
this that I love as much as I love to dance.
That was a bit of a risk. But yeah, it's
(20:20):
wonderful to see this project come to fruition where about nine,
8 or 9 weeks away from the from the season
that we'll be doing this three week season at the
Blue Room in November. That's Tuesdays and Thursdays and matinee
on a Saturday. So it's done very sustainably. Patrick had
(20:41):
discussed with us how many shows we all thought we
could do a week, and my response was, well, not
one show, then another show the next night, then another show.
There has to be at least a day Yesterday between shows,
and I think we all agreed on that. But I
don't have to educate anyone because Patrick knows I don't
have to deal with anyone else's response to my disability. Great.
(21:03):
No one's telling me I'm inspirational or brave or how
much they've learned from me. Because honestly, at this point,
I don't care what non-disabled people learn from me. I'm
not your free education bot.
S1 (21:17):
Yeah, yeah.
S3 (21:18):
You know that you call inspirational enough and I'll spit
out some profound wisdom because I'm just I'm just a
person like anyone else, and I just, I prefer honestly,
at this point, I prefer being around other disabled people
because we can just be ourselves and we don't have
to be brave or no, you know, and we and
(21:40):
we can just be dickheads together and be silly or
just relax.
S1 (21:48):
Yeah. I just wanted to make mention about the performance
of Little Mermaid by Patrick Goonesekera. That Raina is going
to be performing in. It also features the music composed
by Tiffany Harr, who we had on the program some
months back, who actually alerted us to the fact that
she was going to be performing some of the music
for this ballet, this theater piece. I just wanted to
(22:10):
acknowledge that thanks to Tiffany for getting this whole ball
rolling about the knowledge about Patrick's great performance. Now, unfortunately,
our time is running out very quickly. Raina, um, it's
been great to meet you. You've certainly got a lovely
energy about you. And you're very enthusiastic about everything that
you're doing. By the looks. You just said you didn't
(22:31):
want to educate the general public about disability, but what
sort of things would you like to tell other people
with disabilities, especially if they're new to their disability or
are still learning how to live within the disability world?
Is there anything you'd like to say around that?
S3 (22:50):
Oh, yes, very much so. Looking back, one thing I
wish I knew, and people did tell me this, but
I didn't listen. Um, but, um, I would really like
younger people or newer people with disabilities to know that
you can rest. You don't have to be doing things
all the time. You don't have to meet the non-disabled
(23:12):
world's expectations of what how much you should be doing.
And quite honestly, I don't think the non-disabled community should
be doing pushing themselves the way they're doing either. Rest.
Because otherwise you burn out. And I did that. And
so many of the people I know, we both know
have burnt out at various points, and that's why we stopped.
(23:36):
But rest and also find the thing that makes you
really happy.
S1 (23:40):
Yes.
S3 (23:40):
And do it. I was very, very depressed and very
sad for a long time. But my joy in life,
as everyone knows, is is dance and that makes me happy.
It's winter now and I hate winter. I don't like it.
I usually don't do anything. But winter is easier when
I'm dancing, so Patrick's going to have to develop something
(24:03):
else next year for me to be in. And the
year after that, just for winter.
S1 (24:09):
Oh, great. Great. So apart from the theatre and ballet
piece that you're involved with, is there anything else that
you're involved with currently that you'd like to either tell
us about or promote?
S3 (24:18):
Um, no, I think mostly that's it. Although I will
say I did start singing lessons earlier on this year.
And again, that's something that gives me great joy and
it's something I've always wanted to do. And I, a
couple of dear friends, have died earlier this year. They've
had disabilities and they've died in their 50s and 60s.
(24:40):
And I've seen other disabled friends who've developed, um, cancers
and other life limiting Diseases. And we as a community,
we don't always have as long as we would in
this world as if we were able bodied. So we've
got to do things that give us joy. Don't just
(25:02):
try and be a crappy version of a non-disabled person.
Be a fabulous.
S1 (25:07):
And I think you just hit the nail on the
head there. And this goes for everybody. Don't wait for
the right time to do something. Create the right time
to do what it is that you want to do.
Don't let time slip away without being the person that
you'd always wanted to be. Find out what that is
and go for it and do it. I know I'm
(25:28):
saying that through motivation, through inspiration, from people that have
gone in the past, that I respect and honor and
my heart is still with. So thanks for reminding us
about that, Rayna. Well, I think that's nearly time for
us today, everybody. And Rayna. So I'd like to thank
you for joining us for this really fun and lively conversation.
(25:49):
It's amazing how quickly time goes when when you're having fun.
S3 (25:54):
It is. And thank you so much for having me on. Um,
it's been lots of fun.
S1 (25:59):
So just before we finish, tell everyone again where we
can find the Little Mermaid Theatre ballet performance coming up.
S3 (26:07):
It's on through November. It's at the Blue Room in
in the city. In in Northbridge. And, yeah, it's it's
going to be a lot of fun. Um, and we're
also going to be doing it's not just a live performance.
We're also going to be filming, um, a dress rehearsal
so that we can provide people with a live stream version.
(26:29):
So if you can't leave the house or you can't
get to to the Blue Room, there will be an
option for you to buy a ticket to see the
live stream.
S1 (26:39):
Great. Well, thanks very much, Raina, and thanks everyone for listening.
And I just wanted to say, whilst I finish up
anything that we've talked about on this program. Go back
and find out more about it, because most of the
topics we've discussed here today with Raina, we've discussed in
other areas on other other podcasts that I've released throughout
the time on this program. That's all we have time
(27:00):
for this week, folks. Join us again on In Plain
Sight and Vision Australia and hope to catch you then.
Bye for now.
S2 (27:16):
That concludes in Plain Sight for this week. Join us
at the same time next week on Vision Australia Radio,
VA radio Digital and online at VA Radio.com. You can
also listen on demand by searching for In Plain Sight
by Vision Australia Radio. Wherever you get your podcasts, or
ask your smart device to play in Plain sight by
(27:38):
Vision Australia Radio. Thanks for listening.
S1 (27:40):
Thank you.
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