Speaking about Speech with Cicely

A bright enjoyable conversation with the very colourful and engaging Cicely Binford.Cicely is a passionate, creative, and empathetic speech pathologist with a unique background in performance and theatre. Join us as we learn about speach pathology and so much more from a fun and thoughtful practitioner.

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Episode Transcript

S1 (00:09):
Hi I'm Abby.

S2 (00:10):
Hi, I'm Simon. Welcome to the show In Plain Sight,
a program where we highlight incredible stories from dedicated people
who are doing positive things within their community and for
the disability sector. And we're proud to share these interesting
stories with you on a weekly basis. Thanks for joining us.
We've got a really great and interesting interview lined up

(00:32):
later on in the program. And as we were listening
to this interview, I noticed several things. One is that
we've had a bit of a theme lately with some
of our guests, and that theme sort of revolves around
neurodivergence neuro difference and things like autism and ADHD, which

(00:54):
also coincides with a launch of a national autism strategy
this week, January 2025. That is a seven year strategy
to go to 2031, launched by the Australian Federal Government
to help manage and better service people with autism within

(01:18):
the Australian community, which may or may not have something
to do with some of the changes in the NDIS
strategy and some of the NDIS funding. Some of the
critics and critics might suggest that I'm not too sure
at this point in time. However, it will address some
of the funding specifically designed to assist and better address

(01:43):
some of the needs and services for people with autism
and to help with the diagnosis of people with autism. Now, firstly,
we should find out exactly what autism is and how
many people in Australia do have autism, according to latest statistics. Now, Abby,
do you have those kind of facts and figures for us? Yes, I.

S3 (02:03):
Do so according to the World Health Organization. Autism, also
known as autism spectrum disorders, ASD, are a diverse group
of conditions. They are characterized by some degree of difficulty
with social interaction and communication. Other characteristics are atypical patterns

(02:23):
of activities and behaviors, such as difficulty with transitioning from
one activity to another, a focus on details, and unusual
reactions to sensations. The abilities and needs of autistic people
vary and can evolve over time. While some people with
autism can live independently, others have severe disabilities and require

(02:45):
lifelong care and support. According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics,
in 2022, 290,900 Australians were recorded as having autism. That's 1.1%
of Australians. The ABS further states that autism is more

(03:06):
prevalent in males than females, and more common in people
aged under 25 years.

S2 (03:12):
Now, those facts and figures are from a very reliable source. However,
socially and anecdotally we know that they could be slightly
misrepresentative because traditionally females were not diagnosed early of having
such neurodivergence as autism and ADHD and similar situations, and

(03:34):
a number of people are both male and female, are
getting diagnosed later in life also. Currently, a lot of
the issues that hopefully this national strategy might address is
actually getting the diagnosis in the first place, which is
talked about in our upcoming interview with Sicily. Let's find

(03:55):
out what the National Autism Strategy is all about from
the Department of Social Services.

S3 (04:00):
So the strategy announced by the government earlier this week
is designed to improve services and support for autistic people
and their families through a national approach. The Department of
Social Services has released the following statement. The National Autism
Strategy's vision is for a safe and inclusive society, where

(04:21):
all autistic people are supported and empowered to thrive in
all aspects of life. In line with international human rights,
the goal of the National Autism Strategy is to improve
the quality of life for all autistic people in a
way that is meaningful to them. Some of these commitments
include increasing accessible and sensory friendly public and online spaces,

(04:45):
considering the feasibility and accessibility of current screening and diagnostic tools,
exploring ways to make diagnosis and assessment processes more affordable,
and supporting employers to hire and retain autistic employees.

S2 (05:02):
Not just interrupt there, if I could for a minute.
And the affordability of the diagnosis, especially for something like autism,
is one of the main topics of concern for a
lot of people in our community at the moment, and
hopefully that gets addressed quite promptly by this new strategy
and doesn't take the full seven years, because there are

(05:23):
people in dire straits and in need of greater assistance.
And I do hope, and I'm sure there's a lot
of people who have read this strategy and seen these
goals and visions from the Department of Social Services and
the national federal government to have these implemented as soon
as possible and not just be more words on the page.

S3 (05:45):
The cost is definitely a key issue and how much
it costs to get diagnosed. And from some friends that
I have that have been diagnosed with ADHD as well,
have found that it costs hundreds just to get diagnosed.
And I think it's it's a key issue in the
health care system at the moment, and even especially in
the mental health care system as well, something that not

(06:08):
only for autism but a lot of other departments needs
to be addressed. I think.

S2 (06:12):
That's correct.

S3 (06:13):
Now, in response to the National Strategy for Autism Awareness Australia,
AA has welcomed the government's first National Autism Strategy, but
says it must be followed by immediate action to address
the significant gaps in support for autistic children who are
losing their National Disability Insurance Scheme packages, also known as NDIS. Yes,

(06:37):
so that's definitely something to think about there. Hopefully this
new strategy will make a real difference for people with autism.
Our guest this week is speech pathologist Cecily Binford, who
speaks about her experiences working as a speech pathologist, her
experiences with autism, and about the issue of ableism.

S2 (06:58):
Yes, we had a wonderful conversation with Cecily, who is
also a singer, a theatre performer, and a theatre theater reviewer.
So we did talk to her about all those subjects
as well, and got some recommendations coming up for things
ahead in the theater world here in Perth. Welcome, Sicily.

S4 (07:20):
Thank you Simon, it's good to be here.

S2 (07:22):
Now, Sicily, can you tell us, firstly, how did you
get involved with speech pathology?

S4 (07:26):
Uh, well, I came over to Australia in 2007 working
in the freight forwarding industry, which is something that I
fell into after uni. Uh, just because I didn't know
what to do with a drama degree. Um, so freight
forwarding enabled me to, to get on a plane and

(07:47):
get to Australia as soon as I could. And I
wanted to find a career path that would in some
way enable me to utilise my love of language and
communication and also enable me to have an actual career

(08:09):
that had good job prospects once I graduated. And so
I decided that speech pathology was the answer, and not linguistics,
which is what I wanted to do initially because I
just love language. Um, but I thought I would be
in the same boat as when I graduated with a
bachelor's at drama. What do I do with this degree?

S5 (08:31):
Indeed.

S2 (08:32):
Yeah. What is speech pathology?

S4 (08:34):
Uh, speech pathology is an allied health profession where therapists
support individuals and families who need support with speech, language,
social communication, um, swallowing, meal time management, voice, and alternative

(08:56):
and augmentative communication.

S2 (08:59):
Who would normally be a client of a speech pathologist? Um,
being involved with the disability sector that I have been
for many years, I've sort of aware of someone with
a physical disability or has had a brain injury or
something like that that needs retraining because their voice has
been damaged or whatever, like that. So what are the

(09:19):
type of areas would someone be seeking assistance from a
speech pathologist?

S4 (09:23):
So we work in just just so many different contexts
and settings across the lifespan. We help, uh, kids from
as little as, you know, um, infants all the way
up to aged care. Um, so we help, uh, kids
at school in in private clinics. We help people who are,

(09:50):
like you said, have traumatic brain injuries and have lost
language ability. We help with literacy, and we also help
people who for many different reasons are unable to You talk,
find alternative ways to communicate and express their needs and
wishes and loves and desires and hates and all all

(10:13):
of that. So that would come under AAC, which is
all augmentative, alternative and augmentative communication. Um, and yeah, so
mealtime management. So in aged care, if a senior is
experiencing difficulty swallowing, um, we support them at mealtime to

(10:36):
find the right texture, to enable them to maintain health.
And um, and while still maintaining the pleasure of eating and. Yeah,
just there are so many contexts that you might find
a speech pathologist, um, and, you know, even even, um,
you know, actors and other voice professionals who, um, may

(11:01):
need some help with strengthening their voice or changing their
voice quality, or transgender and gender diverse people who want
to sound more like themselves. And they.

S5 (11:14):
Are.

S2 (11:14):
I'm glad you mentioned that, because you talk about that
on your website, which tell us again the name of
your private business.

S4 (11:23):
I have a private business that I'm sort of put
on hold for now, but it's called Outspoken Therapy. Um.

S5 (11:30):
Catchy title.

S2 (11:31):
Yeah, because your website uses a phrase something like gender
affirming speech therapy. Yes. So tell us about that.

S4 (11:39):
First part of gender affirming care is, um, might involve
voice training to feminize or masculinize one's voice or change
it in some other ways that feel more aligned with
who a person is. Um, and that's just one part

(12:02):
of gender affirming care, And it doesn't necessarily even have
to be across the binary either. It can be somewhere
in the middle. It's really about helping gender diverse people
find their voice, and find a voice that that makes
them feel good about themselves.

S5 (12:23):
Interject there.

S3 (12:24):
What sort of techniques do you use when you have
different sorts of people coming in, when they're wanting to
sound more masculine or more feminine?

S4 (12:31):
Well, like I said, it does encompass quite a lot of, um,
I guess, exercises and a bit more technical, um, explanations. Um, but, uh,
so basically we would work on exercises that help for
a more masculine voice. We might use techniques that produce

(12:53):
a darker sound. And we've kind of moved away from
looking in terms of pitch because, um, pitch is quite
relative and subjective. There are women who have high pitched
voices and low pitched voices. There are men who have high,

(13:13):
you know, so it's more about the voice quality and
finding the right descriptors for that individual person to then
be able to say, oh, okay, yes, I want to
darken my voice. I want to brighten my voice. So
for in terms of someone who is is wanting to
use a bit more of a girl voice. Yeah. Um, is,

(13:37):
you know, going to be working on techniques that brighten
and produce forward resonance. So that's, um, basically kind of
making the sound more forward in the oral cavity or
more back in the oral cavity. Um, and so that's
sort of the direction we go. And it's really about

(14:00):
voice practice and self practice, much like when you go
to the physio No. And you say, I've got this hip,
you know. Well, here's your five exercises. Do these once
a day. You know, it's that sort of thing. So
it does take a lot of, of self-directed practice. But
speeches are there to guide, recommend particular exercises and then

(14:26):
ensure vocal health, which is of utmost importance. So we
don't want anyone straining their muscles or abusing their vocal
cords in a way that's going to cause, you know,
longer term damage. So it's more about like mitigating all
those other factors as well. And one thing that's really
important for me to always keep in mind, and any

(14:49):
anyone who is cisgender working in this space is to
acknowledge that as cisgender people, we don't have the same
understanding of voice dysphoria in terms of gender identity. And
so we always need to be mindful of that and
use the terminology that our clients are comfortable using, and

(15:12):
always adjusting our practice in alignment with, with the community.

S3 (15:16):
And it must be so rewarding to be working with
people and helping them to be able to realize themselves
and sound how they want to sound.

S4 (15:24):
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely something that is it really energizes
me when I'm working in in that space, because it
sort of incorporates a lot of what I know from
being a singer my whole life and being really tuned
in to people's voices and, and voice quality and, um, yeah,

(15:46):
just the different aspects of voice. So it really kind
of combines my own personal passions with sort of a
clinical area that, that I also feel good about.

S2 (15:57):
One of your other specialties is working within the neurodiverse
area and helping people within that arena. Can you tell
us a little bit about that? Yeah.

S4 (16:07):
Neuro-diverse affirming care is something I'm extremely passionate about because
I myself am neurodivergent. I am autistic and ADHD. That
always that terminology always sounds funny to me. I am
autistic and I have ADHD referred to in writing ADHD,

(16:29):
so yeah. Um, yeah. So I'm a late diagnosed autistic
person and so I am continually, um, fascinated and engrossed
by anything to do with, yes, issues for neurodivergent.

S5 (16:48):
So when.

S2 (16:49):
You say late, how old were.

S5 (16:50):
You?

S4 (16:51):
When I was diagnosed, I was diagnosed in autistic in
2023 and with ADHD in 2020.

S5 (17:00):
Gosh. Yeah. Okay.

S2 (17:01):
Now, Sicily, can I ask you a personal question, then?
You just mentioned that you were diagnosed just relatively recently.
What led you to seek diagnosis?

S4 (17:11):
It's something that I've suspected for a long time, actually
since my 20s, which was, I guess. Late 90s, early 2000,
when I sort of understood more about Asperger's, which is what, um,
quote unquote, high functioning autism used to be labeled as

(17:37):
in the, in the DSM four. And has since been
subsumed into the overall autism autism spectrum disorder in the
DSM five. And so that's something that I suspected for
a long time, but never was able to actually go
there because it's very scary. You don't want to be

(17:59):
anyone to see see Under the mask. Basically, you want
to be normal. You want to be like everybody else.
So you try so hard to, uh, to be like
everyone else and fit in and, you know, um, seek
friendships and maintain friendships and all of that stuff. So

(18:24):
it wasn't until going back to school, back to uni
for my, um, master's degree, um, that I was really like, okay,
the whole social aspect of being back at uni is
incredibly difficult. Um, so meeting a whole heap of new people, um,

(18:47):
getting involved in group activities and, um, trying to trying
to fit in all over again, it was just so difficult.
And I, um, I really struggled with my mental health
around that. I went to the GP and I said,
you know, look, I, I'm really having trouble. I think

(19:09):
I might be autistic. And the doctor said, well, you
don't seem autistic, but you might have ADHD. So I
got the ADHD diagnosis, which then I got medication and
was able to function a bit better at uni and

(19:30):
got through it and all that, all that kind of stuff.
But the social aspect was really still difficult. And then
I went through a period of what I would consider, um,
autistic burnout. And I said, you know what? I this
this is, this is I'm doing this because, um, an
autism diagnosis takes a long time and it's expensive. So

(19:51):
whether or not you actually have the, um, it takes
a long time because there's the wait lists are extremely long. Um,
and so.

S5 (20:02):
And high demand. Yes.

S4 (20:03):
In high demand. So. And there is no financial support for,
for getting like going through the assessment process. But I
finally got to a point where I could manage that
and said, all right, I'm going to go and get
my suspicions confirmed.

S5 (20:20):
Yeah.

S2 (20:21):
Thanks for sharing that. And I really do appreciate that. Sicily, that, um,
I know it takes some courage to talk about such
personal things, and we do really love that, and we
really appreciate that. And we also like to acknowledge that.
Now moving on to a slightly more lighter subject. You've
mentioned that you've done drama and singing in the past. Now,

(20:44):
it might also be linked to what you were saying
before about feeling different.

S5 (20:48):
Um.

S2 (20:49):
I hear a lot of people in, in theater and
movies and rock bands and everything like that. That's why
or how they drift towards that type of thing. Tell
us how you got involved with drama and singing.

S4 (21:00):
Yeah, so I've been singing since I was a little
teeny tiny baby. I'm pretty sure I came out singing,
I don't know. Okay. But, uh, so I got involved
in theater in, I guess in school and then musical theater.
Musical theater? Yes. Also just regular old theater. Just as
many aspects of it as I can get my hands on. Mhm. Um,

(21:22):
but yeah. So I, um, it's something that I absolutely
is related to that feeling of wanting to find a
place where I belong, where I can also step into
a mask that's comfortable rather than the masking that I
do on a day to day basis. Sure. And to

(21:43):
have to play around in that and, and take on
a different persona, a different personality, a different characteristics and,
and and it's fun as opposed to the, the daily
grind of being of of being this outward version of myself.
And I think you're right, I think it's a common

(22:04):
thing for a lot of artistic, not autistic people. Autistic. Autistic. Um,
but a bit.

S3 (22:14):
Of an Aussie accent. Yeah, exactly.

S4 (22:16):
I've been practicing for 15 years. Wow. Um, so. But
like we were discussing before we came up, David Bowie.

S5 (22:25):
Um.

S4 (22:26):
He's my he's my hero in terms of what?

S5 (22:30):
He literally did wear a mask.

S4 (22:32):
He he very much adopted a persona which helped him
explode his career. And he was always playing different personas
and characters.

S2 (22:43):
It's interesting those those roles we play within ourselves. Now,
I also read, um, on your website. It's kind of.
Scared me a bit. We're not taking on this role
that you helped. You help train people, like in theaters
and on podcasts and people who are professional speakers. Uh,
as part of your role as a speech pathologist. Tell

(23:03):
us a little bit about that.

S5 (23:04):
Yeah, that definitely.

S4 (23:05):
Is within my scope of practice. However, I haven't done
that as my main focus since graduating.

S5 (23:11):
But okay.

S4 (23:11):
Yeah, definitely accent modification and um, support for people who are,
you know, public speaking or, or really in, in terms
of voice. It's about vocal health, I guess is is
where I would mainly focus first and foremost. So if
you've if there's an educator or someone who is struggling

(23:34):
to maintain their voice over a run of shows or,
you know, um, if a teacher has lost their voice
by the end of term one and things like this,
like that's definitely an area that I would be really
keen to support. In fact, someone who's coming to fringe, uh,

(23:58):
contacted me. He said he had googled me because and
he wanted he wanted me to come to his show
and review it because he saw that I was a
speech pathologist and he's been seeing a speech pathologist because
of muscle tension dysphonia. He's, you know, struggles to maintain
his voice over the over the run of his shows.
And so, yeah, he thought that would be a good

(24:18):
way to market his show.

S5 (24:20):
To me, which it.

S4 (24:21):
Was. I'm like totally keen to.

S5 (24:22):
Go and see it. We didn't.

S2 (24:23):
Mention that. But you are a theatre reviewer.

S5 (24:26):
Yes. Sorry. No. That's okay. And I love.

S2 (24:28):
That. Um, unfortunately, we're we're running out of time now, Sicily.
And it's been a fun and lovely conversation. It's been
wonderful to meet you. I'll just ask one more question.
Why would someone seek out a speech pathologist? And how
does someone go about it?

S4 (24:42):
So you could visit a Speech Pathology Australia's website. I
believe there's a practitioner search. Pasqua, I believe here locally.
And find a practitioner.

S2 (24:54):
Do you need medical referral and all that.

S5 (24:56):
Type of thing? No, you.

S4 (24:57):
Don't need a medical referral. You can self-refer. Um, there
are different ways of different ways of, of of paying
for speech pathology services. Um, there's private there's Medicare. Um,
so with Medicare, you can you can get five sessions
rebated for certain chronic conditions or and then there's NDIS

(25:20):
funding available for those who are participants.

S5 (25:23):
In private health and.

S4 (25:24):
Private health cover.

S5 (25:25):
Yes, very much so. Alrighty. Well, we'll finish on this.

S2 (25:29):
You just mentioned fringe coming up here.

S5 (25:31):
In Perth.

S2 (25:32):
Because we are a nationally broadcast program, but we are
based here in Perth, Western Australia, and we've got the
fringe coming up soon and then the Perth festival. Yes.
What should we be looking out for from your point
of view shows to go to infringe here in Perth?

S4 (25:48):
Well, you're definitely not going to go wrong with your
big headliners like, uh, Bernie Dieter's Club Cabaret. I went
last year and it was fantastic. Um, and you know what?
The thing with fringe is that it is just so
chock a block with everything under the sun and all

(26:09):
over the city. And you know what? You can take
a chance on something that you might not normally go
and see. But the prices are generally, you know, not prohibitive.

S5 (26:22):
So and I do like how.

S2 (26:23):
They've branched out, not just focused in Northbridge now.

S4 (26:27):
Yeah. State of play at the State Theatre Centre. That's
a sort of a capsule kind of curated part of
fringe world that has really a great variety of things
on offer. Some of my friends at the Big Hoo
Ha are doing a show there.

S5 (26:43):
Yeah, yeah.

S4 (26:45):
Yeah, yeah. They have their their adult one and then
their kids version and there's just a huge range like dance,
contemporary dance, children's comedy, theatre, all sorts. Always a great
sort of curated part of of fringe world as well.

S2 (26:59):
That's excellent. Well, we'll wind up our fun and interesting
conversation there, in Sicily. It's been a real delight to
meet you. You're really.

S5 (27:06):
Fun and.

S2 (27:07):
Bright person to to be alongside and we really learnt
a lot and really appreciated you coming into the studio
here and Vision Australia in Perth and thanks a lot.
Hope to speak to you again sometime.

S5 (27:18):
Yeah, that'd be great.

S4 (27:18):
I'd love to speak to you again too. Thank you
so much for having me. It's been really nice.

S5 (27:22):
It's been lovely.

S3 (27:23):
To meet you.

S5 (27:23):
Thank you. Thanks.

S2 (27:28):
Thanks very much for listening to the show this week
on In Plain Sight. We're here on Vision Australia. Radio
can be found on the Am dial here in Perth,
990 Am or whatever station you happen to be near.
Wherever you are, look up your guide for that or
on demand via radio.org and any of the major platforms

(27:50):
for podcasts. Look Up in Plain Sight by Vision Australia
Radio on your favorite podcast platform, and hope to join
you again sometime soon. Bye for now.

S5 (27:58):
Bye for now.