November 5, 2025 • 37 mins
An extended conversation with Mark Damian Duda on what is a conservationist and how do you identify?
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Indiana Outdoor Time.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
It's always Indiana Outdoor Time, and what a beautiful time
of the year. I your host, Brian Pointer, it is
Indiana Outdoors Saturday. Many thanks for all the stations who
carry Indiana Outdoors. We couldn't do the show without you.
And if you enjoy it, my gosh, please let them
know so that we can keep doing another twenty seven
(00:53):
years of bringing you great news and information around the
state of Indiana. It's not just news and information. I
love of talking about all the great things that happen.
But it's not just state parks. It's not just hunting fishing.
It's conservation and all the things that go with it.
All the deer, the duck, the turkey, the elks. They
(01:15):
all are great conservation organizations. But we have some great
scholarship that was just put out by our friends at
Responsive Management. They're a regular guest here. They do such
incredible work. They're a national company used by so many
departments and natural resources and organizations to gather public opinion.
(01:36):
And we're not going to steal any thunder from Mark
Damien Dudet, their executive director. He's going to be with us,
and you know, I know he's a big hunter, as
am I, And of course I would be remiss if
I didn't remind folks that next weekend is the opening
of our firearms season and there will be hundreds of
thousands of people taking to field and forest, gathering at
(02:00):
running camps all over the state of Indiana, and such
great traditions I have many, and I know that anybody
listening right now is nodding their head in anticipation of
the great camaraderie and fraternal spirit. And I don't mean
that in just as men. There are so many women
that also enjoy this time of the year in their
(02:21):
own ways with hunting camps. We couldn't do this show
if it weren't for the great contributions of so many
other people. And we're going to visit with Dale Bryer.
Dale is with our Department of Natural Resources are veterans
who we thank for all their service. Veterans Day is
(02:42):
coming up on Tuesday, and there's a big announcement if
you're a veteran or an active military on Veterans Day
from our state Park. So we thank Dale Bryer, who's
going to be here with us in just a little bit.
I got to go back because this fall I have
enjoyed so much. We in Indiana. The old adage wait
(03:03):
ten minutes and the weather all change. Couldn't be any
more real than this time of the year we have.
But we've had a fall and it didn't go from
ninety to twenty. We've had such beautiful weather. It's been
a little dry, the leaves, the colors, everything has just
been so magnificent. I have found myself driving around the
(03:25):
state and doing different things, going to different events, and
from north to south. It has just been fantastic. I
think that's going to change. We're going to have a
little colder weather coming in, which it's about time because
deer season starts. It's the super Bowl, it's the World Series,
it's everything, and it starts next weekend, all right. I
don't want to take any more time from our good
friend Mark Damien dude a responsive management. What is a conservationist.
(03:48):
He's got national data to support. We're going to talk
to him when we return. It's the Indiana Outdoor Show
and I'm your host, Brian Pointer. Back right after this
in Indiana Outdoors continues, and what a beautiful time of
(04:14):
the year. My word, we have had a fall finally
in Indiana doesn't go from ninety to twenty. Well, it
still could, but we've had a beautiful fall here and
here we are just one week away from the start
of the twenty twenty five firearm season in the state
of Indiana. Lots and lots of folks are going to
be heading to field and forest and no better time
(04:35):
to do that. I, of course your host, Brian Pointer
in Indiana Outdoors, brought to you by our dear friends
at Indiana Donor Network, Driven to Save lives. That's the
number two you can sign up to be an organ
and tissue donor. Couldn't be any easier when you go
buy your hunting and fishing license, simply just click the
(04:57):
button and give the gift of life of the new
license system. If you are waiting, like a lot of
folks do, to buy your license, you might want to
jump on that this coming week before heading out next
weekend if this is your first time out, because we
have a new system and maybe a step or two
to transfer all the old stuff into the new, but
(05:17):
it's going to be worthwhile. I have always been so
excited with my longtime contributor friend here on Indiana Outdoors.
Mark Damien Doudah is the executive director of Responsive Management,
and Mark, I don't say this lightly, but you are
I consider you my scholarly wisdom here on Indiana Outdoors
(05:38):
because you publish some such consequential scholarship and so many
important topics, and this one in particular caught my eye.
So I'm anxious to talk to you about what is
a conservationist and what do people identify as first and foremost.
How have you been. It's been a minute since we
last caught up.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
You captured everything. This is the best time of year
to be outside. I'm going to be out next week
deer hunting, and I was exercising outside and jogging and
I was looking around, thinking, there's just no better time.
It's a orange and reds and it's the best.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Well.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
You captured that perfectly.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
You come from the East Coast, and I've had several
friends who have been out this fall saying they've never
seen foliage as colorful, and I would testify to the same.
Here in Indiana. It's been a protracted, several week fall,
which is I think arguably everyone's favorite time of the year.
So many great things to do, regardless if you're hunting
(06:44):
or fishing, or field or forest. So many great outdoor activities,
state parks, and all the festivals and all the other
things that go along with this time of the year.
So I wish you well and like you. Our firearm
season opens next weekend, and so this is kind of
the super Bowl, the World Series, Christmas and Easter all
(07:04):
wrapped up into one for so many people. And what
I love about this time of the year are the traditions,
hunting groups coming together, the planning that started after last
year and well there's going to wait till next year.
The trail cameras, the camaraderie, the chit chat, the preparation.
There's just something special about that. And if you know,
(07:25):
you know, and I know you would agree with that.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
It's the best. I sometimes I don't talk to people
that once a year. It's like, Hey, going to be
a camp this year. Yep, I can't wait to see you,
can't wait to get filled in what you've been doing.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So and you know that camaraderie mark is absolutely something
that I cherish because we've all had groups that we
hunt with and there may be a long standing tradition
or there may be new people that come into a camp.
But it's almost like it's the great equalizer. It doesn't
matter where you come from, what you do, how much
money you make, you come into camp and you are
(08:01):
just one of the guys or gals. And I love that.
I think that that is very, very unique to the
hunting culture. So I'm excited for those folks that I
will too. We'll see sometime next weekend. Just like you said,
could have been a whole year. Nonetheless, you've got some
great new scholarship that you put out. Let's tell people
(08:23):
and set the table, if you will, for what Responsive
Management does, and then you can kind of intro this
new study that was put out by you and Responsive
Management on what is a conservationist? So tell us what
you guys do first and foremost and what this latest
piece is all about.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Sure, I won't belabor that point because I've been on
a few times, so hopefully we've got some regulars. But
I'm the executive director of Response and Management and we're
a research firm on natural resource and outdo recreation issues.
But we focus on the people side of conservation, whether
it's economic impacts, whether it's what people think about new
(09:06):
hunting licenses or this or that, from whales in the
Atlantic coast to manatees to grizzly bears, to salmon to
whitetailed deer, to turkey or elk or anything in between.
If there are issues in terms of hunting, fishing, wildlife viewing,
environmental issues, we get involved with it from the people
(09:27):
side of things. I am a certified wildlife biologist, but
I love the social science part, so we marry the
biology with the social science to help further the cause
of wildlife conservation.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I don't know that you could have said that anymore clearly,
and such great work, and we've always enjoyed your commentary,
and I don't want to take time away from the
most recent which is an interesting conversation because when you identify,
when you say the word conservation, it means so many
things to so many people, and it's a very personal connection.
(10:04):
So what was the title of this study and what
did you find at the biggest level, and then we
can kind of peel the onion back.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, this was a fun one because this was actually
an ad on. This was an add on you know,
over the years. I've been doing this for from us
forty years now, but you know, we sometimes a client
will want to know about something and then they'll say, well,
let's add these few questions on and one of the questions.
This was a national study of Americans on attitudes toward
a variety of issues, on attitudes toward hunting, fishing, trapping
(10:35):
in some things that we're going to get into. One
on what people consider on whether they are a conservationist.
And there's a whole lot under that. Your analogy of
an onion is a perfect one, but I can certainly
give you a two minute overview of some things, and
kind of the reader's digest version. I don't even know
there is there even am I dating myself on a
(10:57):
reader's digest version.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It's one of those that's ever greeted my friend.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
So, but be glad to.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Check your Rolodex when you get done with the call too.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
That's right. Then I'm going to go to my my
ice box upstairs and grab me upon.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
A wedding old. I'm in my twenty seventh year of
doing this on Indiana Outdoors and you're in forty years.
But that doesn't matter. We're still having fun.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Oh yeah. But the question that we wanted to know
is what percentage of Americans sort of consider themselves a conservationist.
And it's kind of interesting because you know, I'm a
big Elder Leopold fan. And in his book San County Almanac,
he actually starts it with a really cool quote that
(11:43):
I think people have used and used and used over
the years, but he says that there are some who
can live without wild things and some who cannot. And
I look like itself. And because I do what I do,
I try to look at issues from every single side,
but that one was one where I think I've been
ten years old, and I'm not exaggerating. It's like, you know,
(12:04):
I always wanted I knew what I wanted to do
when I was three years old, and I've been doing
it for a long long time. But I always looked
at that one and I'm like, really, some people can
live without wildlife. I guess I don't know that. How
can that be? But that would always hit me because
it's like, yeah, I guess there are people out there
who just can't. I can't live without wildlife. We just
(12:25):
talked about the social aspects of hunting. We talked about
the outdoors and beautiful orange leaves and red leaves, and
everything else. But anyway, so we wanted to put that
to the quantitative test, and so we asked a pretty
simple question, do you consider yourself a conservationist? And in
(12:46):
this case, we said, well, whatever a conservationist means to
you and so, and we certainly clarified every now and
then you'll have somebody do I consider myself a conservative?
And it's like, no, no, no, a conservationist. So there
wasn't any any mix up in that. But but here's
some interesting things. Just in terms of big picture. Sixty
(13:06):
two percent of Americans said yes, I consider myself a conservationist. Okay, yeah,
but twenty three percent said no, and then fifteen percent
said don't know. And it's just really that twenty three
percent said, now, I'm not conservationists, and you know, sort
of Leopolder is right. I think Leopold would be happy
(13:28):
with those numbers. But it's still quite interesting that, you know, again,
this is what I do. But I'm and I'm being
superla fair, but you'd think one hundred percent would say, well, yeah,
I mean just in thought. Now, whether people are going
out and doing the right things and that type of
stuff is another issue. But just in terms of do
you consider yourself the conservationists you had, you know, only
(13:49):
sixty two percent say yes. But one of the things, well,
let me talk about a couple of things. One is
that that word is subjective, and we can get into
that in the next segment, because I've got some other
cool stuff. But in terms of this segment, you know,
we always do cross tabulations. Do men think different than women?
Do younger people think different than older people? Do people
(14:12):
in rural areas think different people in urban areas? And
that is indeed the case, And there's some pretty big
swings here. So we said sixty two percent of Americans
said overall, yeah, I consider myself a conservationist. But let's
go to the highest levels on sixty nine percent, so
way over the average of males say yes, sixty eight
(14:35):
percent of rural residents, Midwest residents, people with a bachelor's
degree or higher. And in those higher categories, interestingly, in
the lower categories, you've got females who are fifty six percent,
So there's a big gap there, eighteen to thirty four
year olds, younger individuals, and then also people who were
(15:00):
died in large city or urban areas or under that average.
So while You've got a majority of Americans saying yeah, yeah,
I consider myself a conservationist. You have some wide swings
in there, and we just had an election yesterday, so
everybody knows this group might vote different than this group.
But turning that to a conservation level, I thought that
was really interesting. The other thing that I think was
(15:23):
interesting is we put this newsletter out and just shared
some of these results, and I got so many emails
and texts and phone calls from people, well, what about this?
What about this? It just really it really struck a chord.
For one question, that really struck a chord. But in
the next segment, if you want, we can talk about
the whole definition of well, what if you said environmentalists,
(15:44):
what if you said a natural resource manager or whatever.
We can talk about that. But you know, for a
purpose of just talking in general terms, those are some
of the sort of the bigger things that we saw
in this study.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, Mark Damien Duda is our guest. He is the
executive director of Responsive Management, one of my favorites in
these extended conversations with you, because it is intriguing and
we will wait and talk about the idea of what
a conservationist is in those words. But you know, the
North American model of conservation is truly unique amongst the
(16:21):
entire world, which is why we have bears on the
New Jersey Turnpike and deer and on every golf course
and Canada geese flying over in your retention ponds. It's
just a very very successful ancient from a standpoint now
of this Teddy Roosevelt era in the early nineteen hundreds
(16:42):
that said, these we need to protect what we have,
and it sometimes creates strife and conflict between man and
their uses, etc. But it is a very intricate and
yet very successful model that is nowhere else in the world. Correct.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Well, I'm smiling because we didn't even talk about what
the segment, the second segment would be, but you prefaced
it perfectly. I'm going to surprise you more because it
worked out even better. We didn't spend a lot of
time talking about it, and then it's like you prefaced
it perfectly, so absolutely, and it's a perfect segue to
the second one.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Well, let's do this. Let's take this break right now
because I want to get into this. We're visiting with
Mark Damien Duda, Executive director of Responsive Management. We're talking
about what is a conservationist in some of the results
from a brand new study published, and I'm not going
to take any more time away. We're going to get
right back into this as we return. We do think
our friends at Indiana Donor Network Driven to Save Lives
(17:42):
dot org. Don't you dare go anywhere. We're going to
be back right after this Indiana Outdoors. I am your host.
(18:05):
Many thanks for being a part of this great show.
If you were with us earlier, were visiting with Mark
Damian due to the executive director of Responsive Management fascinating
study Mark on this concept of being a conservationist. And
I didn't mean to steal your thunder, but evidently I
set up what you wanted to talk about, because this
conversation what is a conservationist is very interesting? Where do
(18:29):
you take it?
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Well, you didn't fail my thunder at all. You set
it up perfectly. And you set it up perfectly because
you talked about the North American model of wildlife conservation.
We know it's successful. I mean we can evaluate it.
We have more gear, we have more turkey, we have
more analym, we have more elk, we have more habitat
than we ever did before nineteen thirty seven. So it's
(18:56):
perfect setup. Now when we talk about the North American model,
it's not like a bunch of really smart people got
together and said we're going to develop a model. It's
a very retrospective, cumulative type of thing where we did
this and at work, then we did that, then the
wildlife profession did this, and then we thought, you know,
wildlife should be managed by professionals who have professional degrees.
(19:18):
If you're a doctor, if you's tought to have surgery,
you want to have somebody you went to medical school. Well,
you want to have somebody who went to wildlife biology
school and has a degree and has been certified by
the Wildlife Society. And we don't think that there should
be public trade and wildlife meet etc. Etc. So it's
evolved over the years. But one of the things that's
so important is that it's management. And so we talked
(19:40):
about management. Okay, yeah, wildlife management, wildlfe conservation. It comes
down to management, comes down to doing things. And that's
why your segue was so incredibly important because in reality,
successful wildlife management is based on successful wildlife management, and
(20:00):
that's the that's the word that's the operative word management.
So it comes down to then it's like, okay, well cool, yeah, whatever.
But what if there's a group of people there who
doesn't really understand that habitat needs to be managed. What
if there's a group of people out there that thinks,
where's a wildland out there, let's just put a fence
(20:22):
around it, let's draw a line, and you know, hey,
these animals can take care of themselves. You know, how
many times have you heard that?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You don't?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
You know, there's all the time way. So then so
let's apply some social science to that. And so when
we talked about this, you know, about what we do
today on the conservationist side and those findings, they started
thinking about another study that we did. It was a
couple of years ago now, but it was for the
Wildlife Management Institute, and it was called Words Matter, and
(20:52):
it's talking about words, And we could talk all day about, well,
would people have answered that question that we previously talked
about conservationists for environmentalists versus natural resource or whatever, And
the answer is yeah, people respond differently, of course to
different words, because different words have different meanings. So and
we could talk all day about that, but here's the
more important part following section one of this interview, and
(21:16):
that is is what percentage of Americans think what about
active management versus just letting them be? And so this
is from that Wildlife Management Institute study, and so we asked,
we said, which of the following statements best describes your
feeling about fish and wildlife in the United States. The
(21:37):
first one would be in order to thrive, fish and
wildlife needs to be actively managed by humans. A middle
ground would be in order to thrive, fish and wildlife
needs some management, but should otherwise be left alone. And
then finally, in order to thrive, fish and wildlife should
be left alone. Offense round it just leave them alone. Now, yeah,
(22:00):
five hundred years ago that was a pretty good strategy,
but there weren't people around. There weren't highways, there weren't
people doing this and doing that. And so it's interesting
because one of the things we found is that only
twenty five percent of Americans eighteen adult Americans, said in
order to thrive, fish and wildlife needs to be actively
managed by humans, So only a quarter. Now we're in
(22:20):
the middle. We did see the majority where we said
where people said sixty percent said, well, in order to thrive,
they need some management. But yeah, and then down to
the bottom you had ten percent who said just leave
them alone. And so so I don't know if it's
good news or bad news. I'd rather have it be
a lot higher that a majority of Americans would say
(22:42):
we need to actively manage, which we do. Everybody in
the profession knows that. But then you have that group
that says, well, just leave them a line. And that's
a really interesting concept. And here's why it's an even
more interesting concept in my opinion, because just as we
saw in the first study, a completely separate study, that
(23:03):
younger people didn't identify as conservationists as much when you
start cross tabulating out these different demographics segments, in this study,
it was younger individuals that were more likely to say
just leave them alone. And and you know, whenever I
look at younger demographics with younger people, I mean, that's
(23:24):
our future. And so it's like, wow, have we not
done And I know this is a rhetorical question, but
have we not done a very good job in letting
young people know that the reason we have Turkey out
there and deer and elk is because we actually managed,
We actually relocated turkeys that we actually manage habitat, we do,
prescribe burning, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Well, the
(23:46):
answer is no, they don't. So here we are doing
the we being the profession. That's my clients and people
like you and everybody at Indiana and everything else working
their tails off, and people see, Wow, look at all
these turkey out here. Wow, I'm seeing more turkeys. Look
at those deer. That's great. Well, as a friend of mine,
(24:07):
Shane Mahoney says, that didn't happen by accident. They're not
just out there because we left them alone. If we
would have left Buffalo alone, if we could have left
deer alone, if we'd have left turkey alone, if we
were left Bob White alone, Yeah, it wouldn't it wouldn't
be in as good a place as we are. And
so that's a little bit concerning. But it's interesting to
(24:27):
thought to think about that whole thought process of that
there's a chunk of people, I mean, almost twenty percent
of younger individuals think just leave them alone, just leave
them alone, and those people vote, those people have attitudes,
and those people write letters or you know whatever reflect
what may be coming again, there's nothing set in stand.
(24:50):
Hopefully they learn to get it. But again, it's just
an interesting concept on these two grounds that we've talked
about today, conservationists and active management versus just drawing a
line around it and letting them be.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
For twenty seven years we've been doing Indiana Outdoors and
I love talking about Indiana Outdoors and beyond outside of
this program, and people always ask me things like, you know,
why do we need a trapping season for this, or
why do we need you know, bobcats is a big
thing here in Indiana. We just put a trapping season
(25:24):
in place, and people you would have thought lost their minds. Well,
the study showed that if we don't help them manage
them through means available to us in the most efficient way,
we wouldn't have a thriving bobcat population. So we're a
victim of our own success in many ways. And then
people say, well, they're so cute or they look like
(25:48):
my dog or my cat. Well, at the end of
the day, they have a humongous impact on the ecosystem.
I'm just giving one example, But I don't know what
we do or where we go. Someone asks you, what
do you do with this information. Now that it's out there,
we got a bunch of young, younger generation who maybe
we haven't done as good a job as we should have.
Where do we take this?
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I think it continues to underlie the importance of conservation education.
My first job, remember we're not going to say a year, long, long,
long time ago, as a wildlife biologist was with at
the time. Their ten name has even changed, the Florida
Game and Freshwater Fish Commission. And you know, when you
look at the education departments across the nation, when I
(26:31):
was there, the Wildlife Department, the wildlife division was at
the very top of the three story building. The education
department was down in the basement. And that's sort of
was the metaphor for It's like, well, yeah, obviously wildlife
management boots on the ground is really important, but just
as important our outreach, conservation education is so incredibly important.
(26:55):
You know, I've heard other fellow biologists every now and
then not you know, but people say, well, I don't
work for people, I work for the resource, and say, yeah,
I care about the resource too, But people vote, and
people make important decisions, and people have pretty important impacts
on management decisions, and so for me, the The implication
is pretty clear is that we need to continue and
(27:16):
continue and continue to pound these messages. You know, a
lot of us are steeped in wildlife biology and don't
understand the importance of outreach and education. And just because
you say something once doesn't mean that people hear it.
There's a reason. Let's think about the good news here.
We don't have to listen to any more political ads
(27:37):
for a while. Did you see one political ad for
a candidate and then it was over? Note you heard
it over and over and over and over. So they
were like, stop it. And so we need to understand
that bite sized pieces of information are important that we
need to repeat it again. Thirty years ago, so I
wrote a paper called why some conservation education program fail
(28:00):
and it was that very reason. One, we don't put
as much importance on it. It's incredibly important to do.
Two we think if we said it once that we
got our message across. No, And so I just think
it underscores the importance absolutely really good education and to
continue doing what we're doing. We're doing a great I mean,
I'm so proud of the conservation community, but numbers, you know,
(28:25):
when you talk to people and they think just leave
it alone. It's like, man, Wow, where did that gives
us a minority?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
That gives us job security here on Indiana Outdoors And
for great folks like you who are putting this great
scholarship out there, I wish we could talk about this
for hours. Unfortunately we're gonna have to wait till the
next time. Mark, But thank you so much for all
that you do and a great message and much to
think about for folks listening to Indian Outdoors. We look
forward to having you back on your next next go around, Mark,
(28:52):
and best of luck next weekend to you.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Really apprecie on all of the ABUZ.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Nice to talk to you. It is the Indiana Outdoor
Show and I am your host, Brian Pointer. Don't go anywhere.
We got a Veterans Day announcement from our Division of
Parks when we return right after this in Indiana Outdoors.
(29:25):
What a great show. Always a thrill and privilege to
have Mark Damian Dudah with responsive management. What is a conservationist,
great research that he's just put out and I could
talk to him for the next four shows about the
depth of what all that means, But we don't have that.
We're going to talk about some good fun stuff. I
of course your host of Indiana Outdoors, Brian Pointer, and
(29:48):
we're brought to you by our friends at Indiana Donor
Network Driven to Save Lives. They're the ones that help
us bring such great programming like this. Dale Brier joins
us here with our our Department in Natural Resources. He's
the deputy director of Community Grants and Trails. We have
Veterans Day coming up Dale this week and some important things.
(30:13):
We thank our veterans and we respect everything that they've
done before us, but a nice opportunity from our dn
R properties. What do they have to look forward to
here coming up this week?
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Brian. So on Veterans Day
Tuesday the eleventh, we offer free admission to all veterans
and active duty military and anybody with them in the car.
So bring the whole family. Come into any of our
state parks. You can get in for free with having
to pay that daily entrance free. And we really appreciate
the sacrifices and the service our veterans and active duty military,
(30:45):
and we really look forward to giving them an opportunity
to enjoy the outdoors. As you know, there's a huge
mental and physical impact of going outdoors. It's really positive
impact for folks, so we want to make sure they
have that opportunity well as everybody else.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Well Dale, That's about as simple as it comes. And
like you, we respect, admire, appreciate. No words could ever
suffice for the sacrifice of our men and women who
have and are wearing the uniform. So what a great
thing to do on Veterans Day. Kind of getting doused
in the middle of a week. But no better place.
I've always said this for as much as the Starbucks
(31:23):
coffee anymore. You can take a carlo to people into
one of Indiana's great state parks and I haven't seen
them look any better. In this fall, my word, have
we had a great fall? It helps, It helps business,
so to speak, doesn't it?
Speaker 4 (31:36):
It really does. So the fall colors this year are
really good.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
We've got a lot of.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Activities going on. I thought I would give you a
little trivia this morning. Uh oh, I don't know if
you're I'm not if you're familiar, but the Whitewater Memorial
State Park that's connected to a Brickville reservoir. Yes, that
park was actually created as a memorial to veterans. So
shortly after World War Two, the citizens of Franklin, Union,
(32:01):
and Wayne Counties joined together to create a memorial to
those who served in the war. They acquired that land
that included you know, woods and hills and a man
made lake, and so they transfer that land to the
state of Indiana and in nineteen forty nine it became
Whitewater Memorial Park. All right, it's got a veteran's vista loop.
It's two miles and there's a memorial trail that's another
(32:24):
two mile trail. And this whole thing was done as
a tribute to those that served in the war.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
You're right. I love to consider myself a wealth of
inconsequential knowledge that is not inconsequential. But I did not
know that. And that's why we have great experts like you.
And that's what I love talking to all of our
folks in parks and properties, our property managers, because there's
so much history that many folks around the state of
Indiana don't know. Keep us going. Let's have a little
(32:52):
jeopardy here, anything else for the good of the cause.
What other activities are going to be happening. I know
you guys are full I always tell people check check
the calendars online for all of the parks. There's always
great programming, but anything in particular that we haven't talked
about that would be helpful for people to know.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
We've got a lot of Like you said, the calendar
has all of the events, and we've got I don't know,
probably fifteen or twenty events going on just this weekend.
Things that are active, things that are passive. So like Saturday,
they have an Autumn Society monthly bird hike. It's at
Mound State Park. If you are more into the southern
(33:31):
side of things, I would highly recommend getting out to
Falls of the Ohio State Park. The Alan Goldstein, who
has been our interpretive naturalist at Falls of the Ohio
for thirty one years, is retiring. Oh so he's doing
a final hike, and he's a geologist and a paleontologist
and he works with the fossil beds. So he's going
(33:52):
to be there leading hikes and answering questions and you
can bring your fossils in and he'll identify them for you.
So he's going out with the bang thirty one years
with us.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
So you know that's not an orange chance. Yeah, that's
not an unusual circumstance. I so appreciate the dedication of
all of our naturalists, all of the park managers. Ten
twenty thirty years is not uncommon. And you mentioned Falls
of the Ohio. What a beautiful place to go this
time of the year, such historical significance that whole region
(34:22):
down there, And I was not aware of that retirement.
But that's going to leave a big hole. It always does.
But you know what, next person up.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Yeah, that's right. Well, we'll keep looking for more interpretive
naturalists to tell our story. It's one of the great
things about our parks. They're not just natural areas. You
can actually go there and learn, whether that's from signage
and brochures or there'll be a live person in a
wonderful straw hat to tell you the story of our parks.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
And as the former director always used to say, you're
in the business and making memories, and you do it
so well. Dale. Thanks so much for being a part
of Indiana Outdoors and announcing Veterans Day celebration for all
active duty and military veterans go to one of our
state parks free of charge, load the car and have
a great time. We appreciate you as always. We look
forward to having you on again.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
All right, thanks Brian, always looking forward to.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
It my pleasure. One of my favorites are friends at
the Indiana Department of Natural Resources State Parks. No better time,
no better place to be there, folks, it is the
Indiana Outdoor Show. Don't go anywhere. We're going to be
back right after this.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
And.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
What a show jam packed. I love our conversations on
Indiana Outdoors with our friends at Responsive Management. What a
fascinating study on the public opinion on what is a conservationist?
Could be so many things to so many pe but
interesting conversation. Check out Responsive Management and read this study.
(36:06):
And as he said, it was an add on question
to a larger study that they did, but it revealed
so much. And I can't thank him for always being
a contributor here with the great work that they do.
And I could have talked to Mark, I could have
spent the next three days. I had so many other questions,
but we don't have the time. But we'll always have
(36:28):
him back. So thank you Mark for the great work
at Responsive Management. Also, Veterans Day coming up on Tuesday,
and free pass into our state parks and properties for
active duty and veterans. We thank you for your service,
and I don't mean that in any way to be trite. Folks,
remember turning a poacher one eight hundred tip idn R.
(36:50):
I will see you in the great Indiana outdoors. We
have so much to talk about. Big weekend, next weekend.
Don't go anywhere. We're going to be back. It's Indiana
Outdoor Show.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Think the
Indiana Outdoor Time.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
It's always Indiana Outdoor Time, and what a beautiful time
of the year. I your host, Brian Pointer, it is
Indiana Outdoors Saturday. Many thanks for all the stations who
carry Indiana Outdoors. We couldn't do the show without you.
And if you enjoy it, my gosh, please let them
know so that we can keep doing another twenty seven
(00:53):
years of bringing you great news and information around the
state of Indiana. It's not just news and information. I
love of talking about all the great things that happen.
But it's not just state parks. It's not just hunting fishing.
It's conservation and all the things that go with it.
All the deer, the duck, the turkey, the elks. They
(01:15):
all are great conservation organizations. But we have some great
scholarship that was just put out by our friends at
Responsive Management. They're a regular guest here. They do such
incredible work. They're a national company used by so many
departments and natural resources and organizations to gather public opinion.
(01:36):
And we're not going to steal any thunder from Mark
Damien Dudet, their executive director. He's going to be with us,
and you know, I know he's a big hunter, as
am I, And of course I would be remiss if
I didn't remind folks that next weekend is the opening
of our firearms season and there will be hundreds of
thousands of people taking to field and forest, gathering at
(02:00):
running camps all over the state of Indiana, and such
great traditions I have many, and I know that anybody
listening right now is nodding their head in anticipation of
the great camaraderie and fraternal spirit. And I don't mean
that in just as men. There are so many women
that also enjoy this time of the year in their
(02:21):
own ways with hunting camps. We couldn't do this show
if it weren't for the great contributions of so many
other people. And we're going to visit with Dale Bryer.
Dale is with our Department of Natural Resources are veterans
who we thank for all their service. Veterans Day is
(02:42):
coming up on Tuesday, and there's a big announcement if
you're a veteran or an active military on Veterans Day
from our state Park. So we thank Dale Bryer, who's
going to be here with us in just a little bit.
I got to go back because this fall I have
enjoyed so much. We in Indiana. The old adage wait
(03:03):
ten minutes and the weather all change. Couldn't be any
more real than this time of the year we have.
But we've had a fall and it didn't go from
ninety to twenty. We've had such beautiful weather. It's been
a little dry, the leaves, the colors, everything has just
been so magnificent. I have found myself driving around the
(03:25):
state and doing different things, going to different events, and
from north to south. It has just been fantastic. I
think that's going to change. We're going to have a
little colder weather coming in, which it's about time because
deer season starts. It's the super Bowl, it's the World Series,
it's everything, and it starts next weekend, all right. I
don't want to take any more time from our good
friend Mark Damien dude a responsive management. What is a conservationist.
(03:48):
He's got national data to support. We're going to talk
to him when we return. It's the Indiana Outdoor Show
and I'm your host, Brian Pointer. Back right after this
in Indiana Outdoors continues, and what a beautiful time of
(04:14):
the year. My word, we have had a fall finally
in Indiana doesn't go from ninety to twenty. Well, it
still could, but we've had a beautiful fall here and
here we are just one week away from the start
of the twenty twenty five firearm season in the state
of Indiana. Lots and lots of folks are going to
be heading to field and forest and no better time
(04:35):
to do that. I, of course your host, Brian Pointer
in Indiana Outdoors, brought to you by our dear friends
at Indiana Donor Network, Driven to Save lives. That's the
number two you can sign up to be an organ
and tissue donor. Couldn't be any easier when you go
buy your hunting and fishing license, simply just click the
(04:57):
button and give the gift of life of the new
license system. If you are waiting, like a lot of
folks do, to buy your license, you might want to
jump on that this coming week before heading out next
weekend if this is your first time out, because we
have a new system and maybe a step or two
to transfer all the old stuff into the new, but
(05:17):
it's going to be worthwhile. I have always been so
excited with my longtime contributor friend here on Indiana Outdoors.
Mark Damien Doudah is the executive director of Responsive Management,
and Mark, I don't say this lightly, but you are
I consider you my scholarly wisdom here on Indiana Outdoors
(05:38):
because you publish some such consequential scholarship and so many
important topics, and this one in particular caught my eye.
So I'm anxious to talk to you about what is
a conservationist and what do people identify as first and foremost.
How have you been. It's been a minute since we
last caught up.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
You captured everything. This is the best time of year
to be outside. I'm going to be out next week
deer hunting, and I was exercising outside and jogging and
I was looking around, thinking, there's just no better time.
It's a orange and reds and it's the best.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Well.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
You captured that perfectly.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
You come from the East Coast, and I've had several
friends who have been out this fall saying they've never
seen foliage as colorful, and I would testify to the same.
Here in Indiana. It's been a protracted, several week fall,
which is I think arguably everyone's favorite time of the year.
So many great things to do, regardless if you're hunting
(06:44):
or fishing, or field or forest. So many great outdoor activities,
state parks, and all the festivals and all the other
things that go along with this time of the year.
So I wish you well and like you. Our firearm
season opens next weekend, and so this is kind of
the super Bowl, the World Series, Christmas and Easter all
(07:04):
wrapped up into one for so many people. And what
I love about this time of the year are the traditions,
hunting groups coming together, the planning that started after last
year and well there's going to wait till next year.
The trail cameras, the camaraderie, the chit chat, the preparation.
There's just something special about that. And if you know,
(07:25):
you know, and I know you would agree with that.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
It's the best. I sometimes I don't talk to people
that once a year. It's like, Hey, going to be
a camp this year. Yep, I can't wait to see you,
can't wait to get filled in what you've been doing.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So and you know that camaraderie mark is absolutely something
that I cherish because we've all had groups that we
hunt with and there may be a long standing tradition
or there may be new people that come into a camp.
But it's almost like it's the great equalizer. It doesn't
matter where you come from, what you do, how much
money you make, you come into camp and you are
(08:01):
just one of the guys or gals. And I love that.
I think that that is very, very unique to the
hunting culture. So I'm excited for those folks that I
will too. We'll see sometime next weekend. Just like you said,
could have been a whole year. Nonetheless, you've got some
great new scholarship that you put out. Let's tell people
(08:23):
and set the table, if you will, for what Responsive
Management does, and then you can kind of intro this
new study that was put out by you and Responsive
Management on what is a conservationist? So tell us what
you guys do first and foremost and what this latest
piece is all about.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Sure, I won't belabor that point because I've been on
a few times, so hopefully we've got some regulars. But
I'm the executive director of Response and Management and we're
a research firm on natural resource and outdo recreation issues.
But we focus on the people side of conservation, whether
it's economic impacts, whether it's what people think about new
(09:06):
hunting licenses or this or that, from whales in the
Atlantic coast to manatees to grizzly bears, to salmon to
whitetailed deer, to turkey or elk or anything in between.
If there are issues in terms of hunting, fishing, wildlife viewing,
environmental issues, we get involved with it from the people
(09:27):
side of things. I am a certified wildlife biologist, but
I love the social science part, so we marry the
biology with the social science to help further the cause
of wildlife conservation.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I don't know that you could have said that anymore clearly,
and such great work, and we've always enjoyed your commentary,
and I don't want to take time away from the
most recent which is an interesting conversation because when you identify,
when you say the word conservation, it means so many
things to so many people, and it's a very personal connection.
(10:04):
So what was the title of this study and what
did you find at the biggest level, and then we
can kind of peel the onion back.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, this was a fun one because this was actually
an ad on. This was an add on you know,
over the years. I've been doing this for from us
forty years now, but you know, we sometimes a client
will want to know about something and then they'll say, well,
let's add these few questions on and one of the questions.
This was a national study of Americans on attitudes toward
a variety of issues, on attitudes toward hunting, fishing, trapping
(10:35):
in some things that we're going to get into. One
on what people consider on whether they are a conservationist.
And there's a whole lot under that. Your analogy of
an onion is a perfect one, but I can certainly
give you a two minute overview of some things, and
kind of the reader's digest version. I don't even know
there is there even am I dating myself on a
(10:57):
reader's digest version.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It's one of those that's ever greeted my friend.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
So, but be glad to.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Check your Rolodex when you get done with the call too.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
That's right. Then I'm going to go to my my
ice box upstairs and grab me upon.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
A wedding old. I'm in my twenty seventh year of
doing this on Indiana Outdoors and you're in forty years.
But that doesn't matter. We're still having fun.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Oh yeah. But the question that we wanted to know
is what percentage of Americans sort of consider themselves a conservationist.
And it's kind of interesting because you know, I'm a
big Elder Leopold fan. And in his book San County Almanac,
he actually starts it with a really cool quote that
(11:43):
I think people have used and used and used over
the years, but he says that there are some who
can live without wild things and some who cannot. And
I look like itself. And because I do what I do,
I try to look at issues from every single side,
but that one was one where I think I've been
ten years old, and I'm not exaggerating. It's like, you know,
(12:04):
I always wanted I knew what I wanted to do
when I was three years old, and I've been doing
it for a long long time. But I always looked
at that one and I'm like, really, some people can
live without wildlife. I guess I don't know that. How
can that be? But that would always hit me because
it's like, yeah, I guess there are people out there
who just can't. I can't live without wildlife. We just
(12:25):
talked about the social aspects of hunting. We talked about
the outdoors and beautiful orange leaves and red leaves, and
everything else. But anyway, so we wanted to put that
to the quantitative test, and so we asked a pretty
simple question, do you consider yourself a conservationist? And in
(12:46):
this case, we said, well, whatever a conservationist means to
you and so, and we certainly clarified every now and
then you'll have somebody do I consider myself a conservative?
And it's like, no, no, no, a conservationist. So there
wasn't any any mix up in that. But but here's
some interesting things. Just in terms of big picture. Sixty
(13:06):
two percent of Americans said yes, I consider myself a conservationist. Okay, yeah,
but twenty three percent said no, and then fifteen percent
said don't know. And it's just really that twenty three
percent said, now, I'm not conservationists, and you know, sort
of Leopolder is right. I think Leopold would be happy
(13:28):
with those numbers. But it's still quite interesting that, you know, again,
this is what I do. But I'm and I'm being
superla fair, but you'd think one hundred percent would say, well, yeah,
I mean just in thought. Now, whether people are going
out and doing the right things and that type of
stuff is another issue. But just in terms of do
you consider yourself the conservationists you had, you know, only
(13:49):
sixty two percent say yes. But one of the things, well,
let me talk about a couple of things. One is
that that word is subjective, and we can get into
that in the next segment, because I've got some other
cool stuff. But in terms of this segment, you know,
we always do cross tabulations. Do men think different than women?
Do younger people think different than older people? Do people
(14:12):
in rural areas think different people in urban areas? And
that is indeed the case, And there's some pretty big
swings here. So we said sixty two percent of Americans
said overall, yeah, I consider myself a conservationist. But let's
go to the highest levels on sixty nine percent, so
way over the average of males say yes, sixty eight
(14:35):
percent of rural residents, Midwest residents, people with a bachelor's
degree or higher. And in those higher categories, interestingly, in
the lower categories, you've got females who are fifty six percent,
So there's a big gap there, eighteen to thirty four
year olds, younger individuals, and then also people who were
(15:00):
died in large city or urban areas or under that average.
So while You've got a majority of Americans saying yeah, yeah,
I consider myself a conservationist. You have some wide swings
in there, and we just had an election yesterday, so
everybody knows this group might vote different than this group.
But turning that to a conservation level, I thought that
was really interesting. The other thing that I think was
(15:23):
interesting is we put this newsletter out and just shared
some of these results, and I got so many emails
and texts and phone calls from people, well, what about this?
What about this? It just really it really struck a chord.
For one question, that really struck a chord. But in
the next segment, if you want, we can talk about
the whole definition of well, what if you said environmentalists,
(15:44):
what if you said a natural resource manager or whatever.
We can talk about that. But you know, for a
purpose of just talking in general terms, those are some
of the sort of the bigger things that we saw
in this study.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, Mark Damien Duda is our guest. He is the
executive director of Responsive Management, one of my favorites in
these extended conversations with you, because it is intriguing and
we will wait and talk about the idea of what
a conservationist is in those words. But you know, the
North American model of conservation is truly unique amongst the
(16:21):
entire world, which is why we have bears on the
New Jersey Turnpike and deer and on every golf course
and Canada geese flying over in your retention ponds. It's
just a very very successful ancient from a standpoint now
of this Teddy Roosevelt era in the early nineteen hundreds
(16:42):
that said, these we need to protect what we have,
and it sometimes creates strife and conflict between man and
their uses, etc. But it is a very intricate and
yet very successful model that is nowhere else in the world. Correct.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Well, I'm smiling because we didn't even talk about what
the segment, the second segment would be, but you prefaced
it perfectly. I'm going to surprise you more because it
worked out even better. We didn't spend a lot of
time talking about it, and then it's like you prefaced
it perfectly, so absolutely, and it's a perfect segue to
the second one.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Well, let's do this. Let's take this break right now
because I want to get into this. We're visiting with
Mark Damien Duda, Executive director of Responsive Management. We're talking
about what is a conservationist in some of the results
from a brand new study published, and I'm not going
to take any more time away. We're going to get
right back into this as we return. We do think
our friends at Indiana Donor Network Driven to Save Lives
(17:42):
dot org. Don't you dare go anywhere. We're going to
be back right after this Indiana Outdoors. I am your host.
(18:05):
Many thanks for being a part of this great show.
If you were with us earlier, were visiting with Mark
Damian due to the executive director of Responsive Management fascinating
study Mark on this concept of being a conservationist. And
I didn't mean to steal your thunder, but evidently I
set up what you wanted to talk about, because this
conversation what is a conservationist is very interesting? Where do
(18:29):
you take it?
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Well, you didn't fail my thunder at all. You set
it up perfectly. And you set it up perfectly because
you talked about the North American model of wildlife conservation.
We know it's successful. I mean we can evaluate it.
We have more gear, we have more turkey, we have
more analym, we have more elk, we have more habitat
than we ever did before nineteen thirty seven. So it's
(18:56):
perfect setup. Now when we talk about the North American model,
it's not like a bunch of really smart people got
together and said we're going to develop a model. It's
a very retrospective, cumulative type of thing where we did
this and at work, then we did that, then the
wildlife profession did this, and then we thought, you know,
wildlife should be managed by professionals who have professional degrees.
(19:18):
If you're a doctor, if you's tought to have surgery,
you want to have somebody you went to medical school. Well,
you want to have somebody who went to wildlife biology
school and has a degree and has been certified by
the Wildlife Society. And we don't think that there should
be public trade and wildlife meet etc. Etc. So it's
evolved over the years. But one of the things that's
so important is that it's management. And so we talked
(19:40):
about management. Okay, yeah, wildlife management, wildlfe conservation. It comes
down to management, comes down to doing things. And that's
why your segue was so incredibly important because in reality,
successful wildlife management is based on successful wildlife management, and
(20:00):
that's the that's the word that's the operative word management.
So it comes down to then it's like, okay, well cool, yeah, whatever.
But what if there's a group of people there who
doesn't really understand that habitat needs to be managed. What
if there's a group of people out there that thinks,
where's a wildland out there, let's just put a fence
(20:22):
around it, let's draw a line, and you know, hey,
these animals can take care of themselves. You know, how
many times have you heard that?
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You don't?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
You know, there's all the time way. So then so
let's apply some social science to that. And so when
we talked about this, you know, about what we do
today on the conservationist side and those findings, they started
thinking about another study that we did. It was a
couple of years ago now, but it was for the
Wildlife Management Institute, and it was called Words Matter, and
(20:52):
it's talking about words, And we could talk all day about, well,
would people have answered that question that we previously talked
about conservationists for environmentalists versus natural resource or whatever, And
the answer is yeah, people respond differently, of course to
different words, because different words have different meanings. So and
we could talk all day about that, but here's the
more important part following section one of this interview, and
(21:16):
that is is what percentage of Americans think what about
active management versus just letting them be? And so this
is from that Wildlife Management Institute study, and so we asked,
we said, which of the following statements best describes your
feeling about fish and wildlife in the United States. The
(21:37):
first one would be in order to thrive, fish and
wildlife needs to be actively managed by humans. A middle
ground would be in order to thrive, fish and wildlife
needs some management, but should otherwise be left alone. And
then finally, in order to thrive, fish and wildlife should
be left alone. Offense round it just leave them alone. Now, yeah,
(22:00):
five hundred years ago that was a pretty good strategy,
but there weren't people around. There weren't highways, there weren't
people doing this and doing that. And so it's interesting
because one of the things we found is that only
twenty five percent of Americans eighteen adult Americans, said in
order to thrive, fish and wildlife needs to be actively
managed by humans, So only a quarter. Now we're in
(22:20):
the middle. We did see the majority where we said
where people said sixty percent said, well, in order to thrive,
they need some management. But yeah, and then down to
the bottom you had ten percent who said just leave
them alone. And so so I don't know if it's
good news or bad news. I'd rather have it be
a lot higher that a majority of Americans would say
(22:42):
we need to actively manage, which we do. Everybody in
the profession knows that. But then you have that group
that says, well, just leave them a line. And that's
a really interesting concept. And here's why it's an even
more interesting concept in my opinion, because just as we
saw in the first study, a completely separate study, that
(23:03):
younger people didn't identify as conservationists as much when you
start cross tabulating out these different demographics segments, in this study,
it was younger individuals that were more likely to say
just leave them alone. And and you know, whenever I
look at younger demographics with younger people, I mean, that's
(23:24):
our future. And so it's like, wow, have we not
done And I know this is a rhetorical question, but
have we not done a very good job in letting
young people know that the reason we have Turkey out
there and deer and elk is because we actually managed,
We actually relocated turkeys that we actually manage habitat, we do,
prescribe burning, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Well, the
(23:46):
answer is no, they don't. So here we are doing
the we being the profession. That's my clients and people
like you and everybody at Indiana and everything else working
their tails off, and people see, Wow, look at all
these turkey out here. Wow, I'm seeing more turkeys. Look
at those deer. That's great. Well, as a friend of mine,
(24:07):
Shane Mahoney says, that didn't happen by accident. They're not
just out there because we left them alone. If we
would have left Buffalo alone, if we could have left
deer alone, if we'd have left turkey alone, if we
were left Bob White alone, Yeah, it wouldn't it wouldn't
be in as good a place as we are. And
so that's a little bit concerning. But it's interesting to
(24:27):
thought to think about that whole thought process of that
there's a chunk of people, I mean, almost twenty percent
of younger individuals think just leave them alone, just leave
them alone, and those people vote, those people have attitudes,
and those people write letters or you know whatever reflect
what may be coming again, there's nothing set in stand.
(24:50):
Hopefully they learn to get it. But again, it's just
an interesting concept on these two grounds that we've talked
about today, conservationists and active management versus just drawing a
line around it and letting them be.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
For twenty seven years we've been doing Indiana Outdoors and
I love talking about Indiana Outdoors and beyond outside of
this program, and people always ask me things like, you know,
why do we need a trapping season for this, or
why do we need you know, bobcats is a big
thing here in Indiana. We just put a trapping season
(25:24):
in place, and people you would have thought lost their minds. Well,
the study showed that if we don't help them manage
them through means available to us in the most efficient way,
we wouldn't have a thriving bobcat population. So we're a
victim of our own success in many ways. And then
people say, well, they're so cute or they look like
(25:48):
my dog or my cat. Well, at the end of
the day, they have a humongous impact on the ecosystem.
I'm just giving one example, But I don't know what
we do or where we go. Someone asks you, what
do you do with this information. Now that it's out there,
we got a bunch of young, younger generation who maybe
we haven't done as good a job as we should have.
Where do we take this?
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I think it continues to underlie the importance of conservation education.
My first job, remember we're not going to say a year, long, long,
long time ago, as a wildlife biologist was with at
the time. Their ten name has even changed, the Florida
Game and Freshwater Fish Commission. And you know, when you
look at the education departments across the nation, when I
(26:31):
was there, the Wildlife Department, the wildlife division was at
the very top of the three story building. The education
department was down in the basement. And that's sort of
was the metaphor for It's like, well, yeah, obviously wildlife
management boots on the ground is really important, but just
as important our outreach, conservation education is so incredibly important.
(26:55):
You know, I've heard other fellow biologists every now and
then not you know, but people say, well, I don't
work for people, I work for the resource, and say, yeah,
I care about the resource too, But people vote, and
people make important decisions, and people have pretty important impacts
on management decisions, and so for me, the The implication
is pretty clear is that we need to continue and
(27:16):
continue and continue to pound these messages. You know, a
lot of us are steeped in wildlife biology and don't
understand the importance of outreach and education. And just because
you say something once doesn't mean that people hear it.
There's a reason. Let's think about the good news here.
We don't have to listen to any more political ads
(27:37):
for a while. Did you see one political ad for
a candidate and then it was over? Note you heard
it over and over and over and over. So they
were like, stop it. And so we need to understand
that bite sized pieces of information are important that we
need to repeat it again. Thirty years ago, so I
wrote a paper called why some conservation education program fail
(28:00):
and it was that very reason. One, we don't put
as much importance on it. It's incredibly important to do.
Two we think if we said it once that we
got our message across. No, And so I just think
it underscores the importance absolutely really good education and to
continue doing what we're doing. We're doing a great I mean,
I'm so proud of the conservation community, but numbers, you know,
(28:25):
when you talk to people and they think just leave
it alone. It's like, man, Wow, where did that gives
us a minority?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
That gives us job security here on Indiana Outdoors And
for great folks like you who are putting this great
scholarship out there, I wish we could talk about this
for hours. Unfortunately we're gonna have to wait till the
next time. Mark, But thank you so much for all
that you do and a great message and much to
think about for folks listening to Indian Outdoors. We look
forward to having you back on your next next go around, Mark,
(28:52):
and best of luck next weekend to you.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Really apprecie on all of the ABUZ.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Nice to talk to you. It is the Indiana Outdoor
Show and I am your host, Brian Pointer. Don't go anywhere.
We got a Veterans Day announcement from our Division of
Parks when we return right after this in Indiana Outdoors.
(29:25):
What a great show. Always a thrill and privilege to
have Mark Damian Dudah with responsive management. What is a conservationist,
great research that he's just put out and I could
talk to him for the next four shows about the
depth of what all that means, But we don't have that.
We're going to talk about some good fun stuff. I
of course your host of Indiana Outdoors, Brian Pointer, and
(29:48):
we're brought to you by our friends at Indiana Donor
Network Driven to Save Lives. They're the ones that help
us bring such great programming like this. Dale Brier joins
us here with our our Department in Natural Resources. He's
the deputy director of Community Grants and Trails. We have
Veterans Day coming up Dale this week and some important things.
(30:13):
We thank our veterans and we respect everything that they've
done before us, but a nice opportunity from our dn
R properties. What do they have to look forward to
here coming up this week?
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Brian. So on Veterans Day
Tuesday the eleventh, we offer free admission to all veterans
and active duty military and anybody with them in the car.
So bring the whole family. Come into any of our
state parks. You can get in for free with having
to pay that daily entrance free. And we really appreciate
the sacrifices and the service our veterans and active duty military,
(30:45):
and we really look forward to giving them an opportunity
to enjoy the outdoors. As you know, there's a huge
mental and physical impact of going outdoors. It's really positive
impact for folks, so we want to make sure they
have that opportunity well as everybody else.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Well Dale, That's about as simple as it comes. And
like you, we respect, admire, appreciate. No words could ever
suffice for the sacrifice of our men and women who
have and are wearing the uniform. So what a great
thing to do on Veterans Day. Kind of getting doused
in the middle of a week. But no better place.
I've always said this for as much as the Starbucks
(31:23):
coffee anymore. You can take a carlo to people into
one of Indiana's great state parks and I haven't seen
them look any better. In this fall, my word, have
we had a great fall? It helps, It helps business,
so to speak, doesn't it?
Speaker 4 (31:36):
It really does. So the fall colors this year are
really good.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
We've got a lot of.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Activities going on. I thought I would give you a
little trivia this morning. Uh oh, I don't know if
you're I'm not if you're familiar, but the Whitewater Memorial
State Park that's connected to a Brickville reservoir. Yes, that
park was actually created as a memorial to veterans. So
shortly after World War Two, the citizens of Franklin, Union,
(32:01):
and Wayne Counties joined together to create a memorial to
those who served in the war. They acquired that land
that included you know, woods and hills and a man
made lake, and so they transfer that land to the
state of Indiana and in nineteen forty nine it became
Whitewater Memorial Park. All right, it's got a veteran's vista loop.
It's two miles and there's a memorial trail that's another
(32:24):
two mile trail. And this whole thing was done as
a tribute to those that served in the war.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
You're right. I love to consider myself a wealth of
inconsequential knowledge that is not inconsequential. But I did not
know that. And that's why we have great experts like you.
And that's what I love talking to all of our
folks in parks and properties, our property managers, because there's
so much history that many folks around the state of
Indiana don't know. Keep us going. Let's have a little
(32:52):
jeopardy here, anything else for the good of the cause.
What other activities are going to be happening. I know
you guys are full I always tell people check check
the calendars online for all of the parks. There's always
great programming, but anything in particular that we haven't talked
about that would be helpful for people to know.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
We've got a lot of Like you said, the calendar
has all of the events, and we've got I don't know,
probably fifteen or twenty events going on just this weekend.
Things that are active, things that are passive. So like Saturday,
they have an Autumn Society monthly bird hike. It's at
Mound State Park. If you are more into the southern
(33:31):
side of things, I would highly recommend getting out to
Falls of the Ohio State Park. The Alan Goldstein, who
has been our interpretive naturalist at Falls of the Ohio
for thirty one years, is retiring. Oh so he's doing
a final hike, and he's a geologist and a paleontologist
and he works with the fossil beds. So he's going
(33:52):
to be there leading hikes and answering questions and you
can bring your fossils in and he'll identify them for you.
So he's going out with the bang thirty one years
with us.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
So you know that's not an orange chance. Yeah, that's
not an unusual circumstance. I so appreciate the dedication of
all of our naturalists, all of the park managers. Ten
twenty thirty years is not uncommon. And you mentioned Falls
of the Ohio. What a beautiful place to go this
time of the year, such historical significance that whole region
(34:22):
down there, And I was not aware of that retirement.
But that's going to leave a big hole. It always does.
But you know what, next person up.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Yeah, that's right. Well, we'll keep looking for more interpretive
naturalists to tell our story. It's one of the great
things about our parks. They're not just natural areas. You
can actually go there and learn, whether that's from signage
and brochures or there'll be a live person in a
wonderful straw hat to tell you the story of our parks.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
And as the former director always used to say, you're
in the business and making memories, and you do it
so well. Dale. Thanks so much for being a part
of Indiana Outdoors and announcing Veterans Day celebration for all
active duty and military veterans go to one of our
state parks free of charge, load the car and have
a great time. We appreciate you as always. We look
forward to having you on again.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
All right, thanks Brian, always looking forward to.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
It my pleasure. One of my favorites are friends at
the Indiana Department of Natural Resources State Parks. No better time,
no better place to be there, folks, it is the
Indiana Outdoor Show. Don't go anywhere. We're going to be
back right after this.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
And.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
What a show jam packed. I love our conversations on
Indiana Outdoors with our friends at Responsive Management. What a
fascinating study on the public opinion on what is a conservationist?
Could be so many things to so many pe but
interesting conversation. Check out Responsive Management and read this study.
(36:06):
And as he said, it was an add on question
to a larger study that they did, but it revealed
so much. And I can't thank him for always being
a contributor here with the great work that they do.
And I could have talked to Mark, I could have
spent the next three days. I had so many other questions,
but we don't have the time. But we'll always have
(36:28):
him back. So thank you Mark for the great work
at Responsive Management. Also, Veterans Day coming up on Tuesday,
and free pass into our state parks and properties for
active duty and veterans. We thank you for your service,
and I don't mean that in any way to be trite. Folks,
remember turning a poacher one eight hundred tip idn R.
(36:50):
I will see you in the great Indiana outdoors. We
have so much to talk about. Big weekend, next weekend.
Don't go anywhere. We're going to be back. It's Indiana
Outdoor Show.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
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