August 26, 2025 • 37 mins
A study on the perception of hunting, fishing and shooting sports in America plus professional bass fisherman Mike Delvisco.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:28):
Does anybody else feel like where in the world has
our time gone? Here? We are at the end of
August already the fair is over, hunting seasons have started,
and I just feel like I'm left in a time zone.
It is the Indiana Outdoor Show. I am your host,
Brian Pointer. We are here each and every week, and
(00:50):
we are grateful that you choose to be a part
of it. If for some reason you maybe have been traveling,
or maybe you want somebody new to listen to Indiana Outdoor,
or you miss something, go back any place like a
Spotify where you can get your podcast. Just we'll put
up the last several shows and you can go back
and listen at your leisure This weekend. I always get
(01:14):
a little excited because Mark Damien Duda, the executive director
of Responsive Management, is going to be with us. He's
got some very interesting studies that his organization has been
working with the National Shooting Sports Foundation, which was our
guest just a couple of weeks ago, on participation in
(01:35):
the shooting sports, which I think is extraordinarily important to
pay attention to, as well as some of the perceptions
that people have. I don't expect him ever to not
give us the true skinny, good batter, indifferent, and today
is no different. We're going to spend an extended segment
(01:56):
of time with Mark and we are going to find
out what he's got. Plus he's always great for some stories,
and he is truly one of our guests. He's so
hard to get because he's in such great demand across
the country on the subject of shooting sports, and as
he likes to say, we are involved on the people
side of conservation where people in conservation max so many
(02:18):
issues that state wildlife agencies are relying on good information,
including Indiana. So we're going to visit with him. But
I love me some Mike Delvisco Mike, I asked him
a couple of weeks ago. I said, give me some
time because we haven't caught up. He's on the professional
bass fishing circuit. He is a great teacher, he's a
(02:40):
great mentor to so many and he is putting together
his own fishing derby if you will, for some charity.
And he has had a very long relationship with Texas
Roadhouse and we're going to find out about that. Plus
he and I have been on stage at the Boatsport
(03:02):
and Travel Show and done so many other things together,
and we get into these extended conversations and you come
to find out they all these professional athletes, hunting, fishing, etc.
They all have something interesting. He would love to have
his own Italian little restaurant, and he's so good and
such a great cook. You know that I'm going to
have to visit with him and find out what is
(03:23):
the latest on his menu, even if he doesn't have
that restaurant yet. But as you can see, we are
looking forward to a jam packed show. Mark Damien Duda
a little later and we're going to visit with Mike
del Visco. We're going to find out I always like
to ask him about forward facing son arts of the
hottest topic in the books, and he is one of
the experts. It is the Indiana Outdoor Show. I am
(03:46):
your host. We're getting things started. We're brought to you
by Indiana Donor Network Driven to Save Lives dot org.
You can buy that when you buy your hunting a
fishing license. Sign up to be the donor back right
after this and Indian Outdoor Show. I am your host,
(04:13):
Brian Pointer. I hope you're as excited as we are
here because September brings so many great opportunities. We love
putting these great shows together. This is the last of
our August and you know here we got waterfowl season starting,
we got archery getting ready to start October first, a
lot of people dove hunting reserve draw, so many things
(04:34):
to do, but let's not forget fishing. And when I
say fishing, the person that comes to my mind my
favorite Mike del visco professional bass fisherman of course Texas
Roadhouse sponsor. You've been on my show so many times
over the years. We've been doing this twenty eight years
and you've been professional for one hundred and twenty eight years,
so I think you've been a part of it. Mike,
(04:55):
how you.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Been not too bad for one hundred and twenty eight
year old.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, it seems like, you know, we always chat in
you know, January February leading up to the Indians Both
Sport travel show. But it's nice to be on a
little bit different time of year. We can talk about
some relevant things. And you know, the fall is one
of my favorite times to go fish. It starts to
cool down and the top water bite gets really good
(05:23):
and it's just a fun time.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Of year to fish.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I think anytime is a good one. So let's talk
about your day job, so to speak, as a professional angler.
What's the season been like and where's it going to
go as we enter the fall? Where you had it?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
So, heck, yeah, I've had a really decent season, you know.
So let me preface that by saying, the very first
day of the very first tour event, I actually flanked
and I can't imagine the last time that that happened.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
When I just did not get a bite. I was.
I felt really good going into the.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Event, and something happened and they did not bite, but
I made a little rebound, caught them pretty good in
the second day, salvaged my year, ended up fishing, finishing
twenty first, I believe on tour and I have one
more series that I'm fishing, and we go next week
(06:17):
to Nellie Henry, which is in Alabama, and I'm sitting
in fourth place on that on that tour, so I
feel pretty good about going into this last one.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
How do you pick where you go? I've always wondered that.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So after forty three years of doing this for a.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Little okay, so I was a little short of one
hundred and twenty eight, but keep going a little bit.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
A little bit.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yeah, I'm kind of in the mindset of I want
to go to places where I like to go fish
and where it fits my fishing style. So I've changed
up a little bit the last couple of years, and
I'm fishing two tours from the American bath Anglers that
they're no co angler I get. I can kind of
pick and choose events and I can fish places that
(07:03):
I like to fish.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And I'm having fun.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
I won a couple events last year, made two national championships,
going to make one this year, and.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
It's just fun again.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
And you know, I really like fishing in Alabama, Gunnersville
and Neally Henry and Chickamunga here in Tennessee, and you know,
I don't have to travel as far and it's just fun.
So I'm really looking forward to seeing what they're going
to do next year for their locations, but anywhere they
go is usually clime.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Mike Delvisco is my guest, And when you get to
be of a certain age, I know you love to
teach and you're a mainstay in the boat sport and
travel show area for fishing, and you're always a highlight
and people come to see you specifically, which is why
the renfro production folks are always great because they match
(07:56):
the audience. But I know you love to teach and
you're constantly out there promoting and that probably never gets old.
Being blanked on day one of the new season doesn't
make it any easier. But I know your first and
foremost is teaching and being out there and engaging with
folks and maybe in a way giving back. But here
(08:17):
you are, You're out there talking and I know we've
had this conversation before, but technology has always changed, and
God only knows since the last time I talked to you.
They might just pull the fish in the boat for
you now. I'm not sure. But how are things? What's
the list with forward facing sonar?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, you know, it's not changed a whole bunch.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
You know, some of the newer products, transducers are getting
a little bit better, a little clearer, things like that.
There's not been a huge jump in the technology yet.
I don't know what's coming down the line, but you
know it's certainly here to say it's not going to
go anywhere. And what we're seeing is some of the
some of the tours are limiting use and some of
them are not allowing that the use of the technology,
(09:00):
which I think is pretty cool, and some of them
has restrictions on you know, the number of inches you
can have in screens, what you know, when you can
use it during the day or multiple days, and things
like that. So we're seeing, you know, the rules with
different organizations kind of change a little bit depending upon
the technology. But the thing that I like about where
(09:23):
I'm fishing this year is that a lot of times
that the technology doesn't play into having the ability to
catch them or not catch them, or compete or not compete.
You know, when you go to Gunnersville or you go
to the Chick you can catch them shallow just as
well as you can catch them beep.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And that's what I like because that's my style and
that's why I'm having so much fun.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Mike Delvisco is our guest, and you've had such loyal
sponsorship and so many of the folks that are contributors
here in Indian Outdoors have a very loyal sponsorship following,
and the folks that you have partnered with. Texas Roadhouse
has been such a great partner to you, and we
thank them for making you possible to get out there.
(10:08):
So just recently, you finished up your third annual Celebrity
pro Am. It was for charity. I know you take
great pride in that. Sorry we didn't get it on
before the event, but tell us what you want people
to know about this event, this third annual that was
down at Douglas Lake.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
So I started this thing three years ago and it
was kind of a.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Way for me to give back a little bit.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
The event is a benefit for the American Tonight It's Association,
and Texas Roadhouse is pretty heavily involved with them, and
we actually do one hundred percent sales day it's usually
in February, where we we donate one hundred percent of
our sales company wide to their organization.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And one of the things I wanted to do is
as I wanted to try.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
To give back a little bit, and I came up
with this idea of having a celebrity pro Am fishing
tournament right here on Douglas Lake.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Where I live.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
And it pairs a fishing pro with a celebrity, typically
a country music artist, and the third person buys the
seat to come fish, and we do it auction style
and we fish and we have a good time for
half a day, and then we also have a big
kickoff part of the evening before with food and a
(11:24):
prize giveaway and meet and mingle with our pros and
celebrities and vendors and our vendor sponsors come in. And
then we also have a country music concert to go
with it, so it's it's more of an event and
to bring about awareness to tonightis And it's actually I
didn't know this, but it's it's pronounced Tintish, but I
(11:45):
say Tonitus because that's how everybody really knows it. And
it's becoming a really really nice event here in town,
and and we're getting, you know, a lot of recognition
for it too. You know, people in town, you know
when I'm driving around, say, you know, we can't wait
for you know, next year of the event, and it's
typically sometime the third week of August every year.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Is when we have it.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well, that's good to know for next year. But I
did not realize when I was talking about your sponsorship,
but you kind of wanted to honor the life of
one of your friends, Kent Taylor. He he you're paying
tribute to him as the founder of Texas Roadhouse, who
had severe Tenetus. Thank you for the correction on that.
So I think this is this is what makes the
(12:30):
outdoor world great. You've been rewarded in your career and
now you're giving back in so many meaningful ways. And
I find this story repeated almost to a person out
there on these whether you're a professional hunter or fisherman,
they always have these causes, so great work giving back.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yeah, it's like I said, it's a really fun event.
And you know, I'm just blown away every year by
the amount of people that come out and support it.
From our you know, all of my pro fishing friends
that are you know, loving the event, that wanting to
come out. Did they say it's their favorite of end
of the year, to all the country, met the artists
and celebrities that donate their time in coming out, to
(13:06):
all the sponsors.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So it's it's a really good event.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And I'll actually start working the next year's event here
in another probably two months.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Well, there's no rest for the Wicked. So you've you've
got a lot of stuff you've already talked about, and
you're looking forward to a couple more events as we
ease into the fall. What do you do in the wintertime.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Sleep. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I was going to say, if you're like me, you
do nothing, that's a fair answer.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Uh, you know, the fishing here down in Tennessee is
really good till about you know, the first of December
is and it seems like the plug gets cold the
first of December and everything gets really cold. So uh,
you know, our fish are still biting really good, and
that's you know, one of my favorite times a year
to get out and fish in top water baits.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And things like that.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
So I'll be I'll be fishing for fun quite a
bit here and probably later in October November, and then
you know, of course getting ready for show's season which starts.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
In January, so there's not a lot of downtime.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
How many shows are you going to do, because we've
been talking to our friends at Renfro already. Of course,
they just coming up here have their fall URV show,
which it seems like an afterthought, but it's still very
intense and they do such a great job meeting what
the folks want with this fall URV show. But then
it's hard to believe seventy one years of the boat,
sport and travel show they're bringing back the Motorcycle Expo.
(14:30):
They've already got plans and the works for some new
buildings that they're going to be able to use that
have come online in the last year. It's kind of
changed the way the show has gone. But the Motorcycle
Show is so popular they had to give it more space.
But the Deer Turkey Waterfowl Expo is in there, and
of course the hog Trough and all the stuff in
Tackle Town. I hope you're going to be there.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I am certainly going to be there.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
I talked to Kevin about two weeks ago and we
are all locked in for twenty twenty, as well as
a full slate of other events and going on all
around the country. So I'm pretty much flat out January February,
and then we start fishing in March.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Well I should have known if I said, what do
you do when you're not fishing in the in the
winter time before your season? I know you love to
cook anything new coming out of the kitchen, and Mike
delvisco you.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Know, I think I'm gonna do some salmon today. I
was up in Wisconsin a few weeks ago for our
annual Ketchings Roadhouse Kids Fishing Derby in Wansaw, and I
had an opportunity to sneak out and go catch some
salmon out of Lake Michigan.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
It was a ton of fun.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
And I've got some nice filets here, some coal filets,
and I'm gonna gonna probably just do some simple filets tonight.
But I really want to do like a Toho eggs benedict.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Of Coho cake eggs benedict. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
You know what, if you and I ever traveled together, Uh,
I'm living with you because you always bring out the
great food. Plus I know you're an Italian fish hionado
and we I just love that about you because we
share that. I that's what I do in my downtime.
I just go to the refrigerator and start making stuff.
But my gosh, you got all kinds of good things.
It sounds like you've got in store. Most importantly, I
(16:14):
can't thank you enough for being a part of Indiana Outdoors.
Anything else for the good of the cause that we
haven't talked about. I'd like to make sure people know
what you got going on, or what's important or what
you're seeing out there. Did you make it to ICST
this year?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
So I did not make it down there this year.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
We had have so much going on would trying to
get this tournament planned, that I couldn't sneak away for
a couple of days. And I had I had some
other travels, doing some electronic trips, you know, teaching people
how to use their sonar. That was kind of right
in the middle of everything, so I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Able to get there.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
I heard some some pretty good things, you know, my
friends from Rapaula did real good there at the show,
and I heard there was a lot of new, you know,
new types of products and categories coming out.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
But I'm kind of sorry I didn't get there this year.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
It's always great to visit with you and look forward
to seeing as your wife's still traveling with you when
she can.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
She does when she can, you know, she's got to
work every now and then, but she does get out
and I'm thankful for every time that we get to
go travel together.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
It's a terrible habit when work gets in the way
of our fun, right, That's right, Mike. Always great to
visit with you. It's going to be here before you
know what We're going to see in Indianapolis. Best of luck,
finishing out the year, enjoy some rest and relaxation before
it kicks back after the first of the year, but
appreciate the update from the tour. Thanks for being a
part of Indian Outdoors Awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Thanks very much, Brian.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
My pleasure. Mike Delvisco one of the hardest working guys,
nicest guys out there. We look forward to him. Fan favorite.
It is the Indian Outdoor Show. I your host, Brian Pointer.
Don't think about going anywhere. This show is just getting started.
No better way to do it. We're going to be
back right after this. The Indian Outdoor Show rolls on.
(18:12):
So great to visit with you each and every week.
I want to thank my good friend Mike del Visco,
one of the hardest working guys. He's truly just a
funny dude on the professional bass fishing world and always
great to catch up with him. He's had a big
charity tournament that he was putting together and I was
like talking recipes with del Visco. He wants to open
(18:35):
up a little restaurant in his house and he serves
what he wants and you don't get any substitutions, and
I'm all about that. Love him all right now. To
the point of the matter. We've been talking all morning
about the fact that we have Mark Damien Dudah back
with us. And Mark, it's always great to have you
be a part of Indiana Outdoors because you do such
great work that's so important, and we get to have
(18:57):
these extending conversations because it's not worthy of it's worthy
of every bit of minute in time that we can give.
So I always love to ask how you doing, what
have you been working on.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
I'm doing great, Thanks for the very kind words, and
happy to be here. So it's all been good.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Why don't we talk in general about what responsive management
is because you do such meaningful work, but it's so diverse.
Tell us about your career.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Sure, Well, this is thirty five years thirty five years
in doing what we call the human dimensions of natural resources,
and that's basically the intersection between people and the outdoors.
So wherever people and the outdoors intersect, which is everywhere
we get involved. So my favorite quote that I've used
(19:45):
over the years is by Leopold who says that the
problem of wildlife management is not how we should handle
the deer. The real problem is one of human management.
Wildlife management is comparatively easy. Human mana management is difficult.
So we focus on the people side of things.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Well, we visited and beneficiaries of a lot of the
input studies that you've done on people's perceptions of hunting,
people's perceptions of fishing, all the and hunting, all of
those things, shooting sports. But you always have things in
the works, and I want to open it up to
(20:24):
you to kind of talk about some of the material
that you've put out there and that you're proud of
and talking about as you travel around the country.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Sure.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
Well, yeah, when we talked, I was like, when would
we talked last time? Because sometimes it feels like it's
been I know what.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I'm hearing you saying is you just miss me and
we can't talk enough because that's where I feel into.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
Okay, I did, and he said it was several months ago.
So the good news is that we certainly can report
on a couple of new studies. Not fantastic news when
it comes to what we're seeing, but something that we
kind of just need to look at and talk about
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Let's do it.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Two big studies that we've done since we do about
thirty five forty studies a year, but for this topic,
two new studies, one on actual shooting participation in the
shooting sports and then an attitude study. So the first
one we do every year. We've done a study every
(21:23):
other year since about two thousand and eight for the
National Shooting Sports Foundation on how many people are participating
in the shooting sports and target shooting and handguns and
indoor ranges and outdoor ranges and all of those things skeet.
And then the other one is on how the public
views hunting and the shooting sports, and that was done
(21:47):
for the Council to advance the hunting and shooting sports
related the different but we can sort of take each one,
maybe talk about the participation one and then attitudes.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Let's do it. You know, it's ironic because just a
couple of weeks ago Chris Lee was with us from
the National Shooting Sports Foundation celebrating and talking about National
Shooting Sports Months. So you take it away, it's all
good stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Perfect.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
Well, yeah, we've been doing these studies for a long time.
The shooting sports study since two thousand and eight seems
like just yesterday, but quite a long time ago. The
attitude study we've been doing since the nineteen nineties, nineteen
ninety one to the exact.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
But over the years, you know, we've.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Seen things go up, seen things drop a little bit.
But sort of a spoiler alert is that I'm bringing
not as good news as I wish I were. But
in both of those we can get into specifics. But
in both of those, we're seeing declines in the shooting sports,
and we are seeing declines in public support for hunting
(22:50):
in the shooting sports. Now, before I say anything more,
it's relative. You know, you might go from fifty four
million people shooting to fifty million. Well, that's significant. I'd
rather see it go up. There's some reasons for that,
as well as the attitudes so.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Well as we know in the pandemic people and Chris
Lee and I even talked about this record numbers of
people taking to the range buying guns, figuring out that
the shooting sports is just fantastic for all ages. And
you're right, four million net loss, whatever that might mean
is is significant. But I don't want to steal your thunder.
What do you take from all this?
Speaker 5 (23:30):
Yeah, well, there's a lot of good news here. First,
our studies show that about twenty percent of Americans one
out of every five Americans go shooting in a year.
I mean, that's amazing because people are like, oh, no way,
you know, our number hovers around fifty million. Around fifty
million Americans go out either plink or go to a range,
(23:54):
or go to a public area and shoot, whether it's
you know whatever, with a rifle, with a handgun. Fifty
million people, it's a lot. It has decreased over the
past few years. Whether or not that was that huge bump, well,
there's two things going on. We saw a huge increase
from about twenty ten to about twenty and twenty. I
(24:17):
mean just you know, double digits gains every couple of years.
More and more people sports shooting, going out, enjoying firearms,
buying firearms. So we are you know, we were at
a peak at around twenty twenty. The pandemic came and
more and more people were shooting. We saw a decrease
in shooting at an indoor range, but otherwise we saw
(24:39):
some huge increases. And we not only saw huge increases
with our traditional folks, more rural, more southern, more male,
but we saw huge increases in black residents, in urban residents,
in suburban residents, in women in younger individuals. So that's
(25:00):
what you know. So think about a line going up.
I wish I was lecturing because I could show you
this line going up and up and up and up.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
We hit this peak at.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Around twenty twenty, and we stabilize between about twenty two
twenty three, and just recently in twenty four we said,
did see a slight drop. And what's interesting, though, is
we saw that flight drop with our traditional folks. Now
again this is this is actually going participating. You can
(25:28):
have a gun and not participate, and a lot of
people do. It's crazy, but we've got a lot of
people sitting around with guns in their nightstands and they're
gun safe and they're not shooting them. But anyways, so
we saw this decrease of about three four percent from
about twenty four to twenty five percent or about twenty percent.
But the important thing too, is that like I said,
(25:51):
that people have these guns, I mean upwards of forty
five to fifty percent. Almost half people think about this,
Almost half of American households have a firearm. And we've
seen that increase. We used to report about forty two
forty three percent, but over the past six seven years,
that's jumping up to around forty eight percent. And I
think a new Gallup poll just was just showing it
(26:13):
around fifty percent. So when you think, well, twenty percent
are going shooting, but yeah, fifty percent of American households
have a firearm, those high numbers of fifty million people
who go out every year makes sense.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, sure does. Mark. Can we pay a bill or two?
Because I want to continue this conversation. I want to
give you as much time as we can, and I
also want to get to the perception of side of
this as well. So when we come back, we're going
to visit with Mark DAMIANDU to continue this conversation. Responsive
Management talking about some interesting studies here about participation in
(26:48):
the shooting sports. It is the Indian Outdoor Show and
I am your host, Brian Poyter. Don't go anywhere back
right after this and Indian Outdoors. What a great day.
(27:12):
We're brought to you by Indiana Donor Network Driven to
Save Lives. We're visiting with Mark Damien Dudah Responsive Management
talking about the people side of the outdoors. We love
having his commentary and Mark, I want to jump right
back into it because you were talking about some trends
relatively on the downside. But I still think, like you
(27:32):
just pointed out, fifty million people that go to a
range is a phenomenal number of people. I'm interested are
there more things that you found in that that are
worthy of conversation because I am interested in what the
perception is as well.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
Sure, yeah, you know the top reasons that people are shooting,
they're shooting with a handgun about fifteen percent of Americans,
twelve percent shooting with the rifle in about seven percent
going to an indoor range. And when you think about
handguns shooting indoor range, a lot of those people are
(28:09):
doing it for self defense. And you know, maybe you
or I are a lot of your listeners sort of
take that for granted because we know how to use firearms,
but a lot of Americans don't. So a lot of
those people that we saw between twenty ten and twenty
on that increase are going to a range to learn
about firearms and learn about safety. And you can see
(28:31):
that in the numbers in terms of who those new
people are. Their black residents, their Hispanic Latino, they're female,
they're Democrats. Very very interesting in terms of those new
individuals editing generally from about about fifteen percent of all
of those people out there who shoot about fifteen in
(28:52):
the old days, you know, around twenty ten, it was
about twenty percent. We're new shooters, that went down to
about twelve percent. But we're bringing in new people and
that's why it's interesting that the people that that the
larger percent of this decline is due to to the
more traditional folks that we've seen. So we don't know
why that is. In fact, we're going to actually be
(29:13):
putting in a grant with in partnership with the National
Shooting Sports Foundation to figure it out. But you got
to know what's happening before you before you can do
something about it. And we're just we're learning that that,
you know, we you know, gun sales were going down,
We saw that, and people are just feeling comfortable, you know,
with with the current administration and they don't feel it's
as much of a threat to their Second Amendment rights.
(29:36):
So people are kind of like, okay, I have I have,
I have enough guns now I'm feeling a little bit
more safe.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
You take that back, you take that back, that's never
a possibility. Too many guns. What are people thinking of?
What are the people's perceptions.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Yeah, well, let's turn to a completely separate study. I'm
laughing for a lot of reason. We could talk later
on that. And I've had a nephew come down and
you saw my collection and some fun comments, and he's
in the military. But anyway, so let's talk about a
completely new study. We've talked about the National Shooting Sports
Foundation Participation Study. This one is on attitudes on what
(30:13):
do people think and know and feel about hunting and
about sports shooting. We've been doing this study since since
nineteen ninety so, you know, so with that thirty five years,
we've had these really cool trends. So we saw a
two three years ago high of about eighty one percent
about four years ago twenty one, but ever since then
(30:36):
we have seen a slight drop each year, you know,
from eighty one percent to seventy nine percent to seventy
eight percent. Now we're hovering around seventy three percent of
the American people support hunting.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
So there's and.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
It's about the same for sports shooting. And again there's
this there's sort of two things going on. One it's like, wow, man,
three quarters of Americans support the hunting and shooting sports separately,
hunting seventy three percent, sports shooting seventy four percent. That's
a lot, that's a majority. You know, people talk about
twenty eighty issues. So that's the great news that there's
(31:11):
we have strong support for our outdoor activities. On the
other hand, we've seen each year for about three four
years now a slight decrease and so the question is,
well why. And one of the things we actually did
a fairly major study with a group called the Outdoor
Steward's Group, and we did the survey research and what
(31:34):
was really interesting is that even with hunting is that
there was this with the people again, this is these
are the people who we saw lose support for the
shooting sports was directly related to crime and the use
of guns in crime. And it's like, well, wait a minute, wait,
that's that's a real leap of faith to say hunting
(31:58):
equals guns, guns equals violent crime. And so but that's
what they think, that's what we do.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
You know, we don't it's not true.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
I mean, we know that people who hunt in sports
shoot have less likely of a percent to cause crimes
like that. I mean, the guns that are begs mission
are illegal guns and so so it's like, well, gosh,
what do we do about that. That's a lot of
times I do studies and some of the solutions are
(32:27):
fairly simple. It's like, well, we need to get messages out.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
We did it.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
Just did a really cool study up in Washington State
on lost gear. It was with fishing people who are
losing gear overboards.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
I'm glad you didn't call me on that one.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
So yeah, and you know, you get snagged or whatever.
But my point there is just an example that we
can we can make people aware of that and they're like, yeah, okay,
I shouldn't I shouldn't throw that line overboard, or I
shouldn't do this, and and anglers are great, they're like okay, yeah,
I get it.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I just remind me.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
But how do you first break that thought that somehow
hunting equals guns equals violent crime.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And so that's a tough one.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
And so we're working on that, trying to figure out
ways to do that. But it's an interesting connection that
shouldn't be there, but it was. It was the reason,
you know, we saw that, and so so we're working
on that, trying to figure some things out.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I think we get those people back.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
But what's interesting is that in terms of who the
folks were, that in terms of the demographics, the biggest
declines were in the northern region, the northeast region of
the US, among females and among black residents, and so
so it sort of makes sense when you think about it.
(33:52):
But I think I think communications at this point increases
in advertisements and public relations campaign talking about the importance
of hunting and the importance of sports shooting and you
know all those benefits that go along with us.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Mark, you are absolutely one of my favorites and I
love this. Anything new, real quick, anything new coming up
that we need to get back with you before the
end of the year.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
Well, hopefully when I talk to you next time, I
will have gotten this trophy dear that I've been after now.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Oh, I love it, and.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
We can put I had a great turkey hunting season,
but I also went up to New England and I
got rained on for eight straight days during my turkey.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
All right, this is great, this is great. We're going
to put this into our next show.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Mark.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
I always great to visit with you. Responsive Management. Go
to their website pick up some of this great intel.
Appreciate you as always my friend, always an open phone.
Look forward to talking soon. Thank you my pleasure, Mark Damien,
due to one of my favorites. It is the Indian
Outdoor Show. We're brought to you by Indiana Donor Network
Driven to Save Lives dot Org. Don't go anywhere. We're
(35:01):
going to be back right after this and Indiana Outdoors
(35:22):
continues and I am your host, Brian Pointer. Love that music.
What a great show we've had. I like to think
they're all great, but I know that when sometimes you
get guests like Mark Damian Duda. We could have talked
every time I have him on our show. He is
the executive director of Responsive Management. Literally, I feel like
(35:43):
we could spend days. This is where I wish I
was Joe Rogan and had a four hour podcast because
the stuff that he does on behalf of agencies and
fish and wildlife groups across the country. You heard him
talk about the national Shooting Sports found institutional perspective that
is very very important, and I am grateful that he
(36:08):
gave us some extended time, very interesting subjects A little bit.
As he said, I'm not bringing you all the rosie.
We're down a few since our pandemic high on those
who participate. But if you think about it, the perception
still for hunting in gun ownership in the country at
an all time high, so that is good news. But
(36:30):
he says there's some waves and dark clouds that we've
got to move through, but that's all good. Mike Delvisco
is one of my favorite people. I love talking food.
I love him talking about his life on tour as
a professional best fisherman, and with that he has done
some great work putting together charity events and I'm looking
(36:53):
forward to seeing him at the Boat Sport and Travel Show. Man.
That's we just got done with the fair and here
I'm already talking about the Boat Sport and Travel Show.
We got a lot of stuff to do. Hunting season underway, folks.
It is the Indian Outdoor Show. We're gonna be back
next week. Remember turn in a Poacher one eight hundred
tip I D n R. Have a good one, everybody,
Does anybody else feel like where in the world has
our time gone? Here? We are at the end of
August already the fair is over, hunting seasons have started,
and I just feel like I'm left in a time zone.
It is the Indiana Outdoor Show. I am your host,
Brian Pointer. We are here each and every week, and
(00:50):
we are grateful that you choose to be a part
of it. If for some reason you maybe have been traveling,
or maybe you want somebody new to listen to Indiana Outdoor,
or you miss something, go back any place like a
Spotify where you can get your podcast. Just we'll put
up the last several shows and you can go back
and listen at your leisure This weekend. I always get
(01:14):
a little excited because Mark Damien Duda, the executive director
of Responsive Management, is going to be with us. He's
got some very interesting studies that his organization has been
working with the National Shooting Sports Foundation, which was our
guest just a couple of weeks ago, on participation in
(01:35):
the shooting sports, which I think is extraordinarily important to
pay attention to, as well as some of the perceptions
that people have. I don't expect him ever to not
give us the true skinny, good batter, indifferent, and today
is no different. We're going to spend an extended segment
(01:56):
of time with Mark and we are going to find
out what he's got. Plus he's always great for some stories,
and he is truly one of our guests. He's so
hard to get because he's in such great demand across
the country on the subject of shooting sports, and as
he likes to say, we are involved on the people
side of conservation where people in conservation max so many
(02:18):
issues that state wildlife agencies are relying on good information,
including Indiana. So we're going to visit with him. But
I love me some Mike Delvisco Mike, I asked him
a couple of weeks ago. I said, give me some
time because we haven't caught up. He's on the professional
bass fishing circuit. He is a great teacher, he's a
(02:40):
great mentor to so many and he is putting together
his own fishing derby if you will, for some charity.
And he has had a very long relationship with Texas
Roadhouse and we're going to find out about that. Plus
he and I have been on stage at the Boatsport
(03:02):
and Travel Show and done so many other things together,
and we get into these extended conversations and you come
to find out they all these professional athletes, hunting, fishing, etc.
They all have something interesting. He would love to have
his own Italian little restaurant, and he's so good and
such a great cook. You know that I'm going to
have to visit with him and find out what is
(03:23):
the latest on his menu, even if he doesn't have
that restaurant yet. But as you can see, we are
looking forward to a jam packed show. Mark Damien Duda
a little later and we're going to visit with Mike
del Visco. We're going to find out I always like
to ask him about forward facing son arts of the
hottest topic in the books, and he is one of
the experts. It is the Indiana Outdoor Show. I am
(03:46):
your host. We're getting things started. We're brought to you
by Indiana Donor Network Driven to Save Lives dot org.
You can buy that when you buy your hunting a
fishing license. Sign up to be the donor back right
after this and Indian Outdoor Show. I am your host,
(04:13):
Brian Pointer. I hope you're as excited as we are
here because September brings so many great opportunities. We love
putting these great shows together. This is the last of
our August and you know here we got waterfowl season starting,
we got archery getting ready to start October first, a
lot of people dove hunting reserve draw, so many things
(04:34):
to do, but let's not forget fishing. And when I
say fishing, the person that comes to my mind my
favorite Mike del visco professional bass fisherman of course Texas
Roadhouse sponsor. You've been on my show so many times
over the years. We've been doing this twenty eight years
and you've been professional for one hundred and twenty eight years,
so I think you've been a part of it. Mike,
(04:55):
how you.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Been not too bad for one hundred and twenty eight
year old.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, it seems like, you know, we always chat in
you know, January February leading up to the Indians Both
Sport travel show. But it's nice to be on a
little bit different time of year. We can talk about
some relevant things. And you know, the fall is one
of my favorite times to go fish. It starts to
cool down and the top water bite gets really good
(05:23):
and it's just a fun time.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Of year to fish.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I think anytime is a good one. So let's talk
about your day job, so to speak, as a professional angler.
What's the season been like and where's it going to
go as we enter the fall? Where you had it?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
So, heck, yeah, I've had a really decent season, you know.
So let me preface that by saying, the very first
day of the very first tour event, I actually flanked
and I can't imagine the last time that that happened.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
When I just did not get a bite. I was.
I felt really good going into the.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Event, and something happened and they did not bite, but
I made a little rebound, caught them pretty good in
the second day, salvaged my year, ended up fishing, finishing
twenty first, I believe on tour and I have one
more series that I'm fishing, and we go next week
(06:17):
to Nellie Henry, which is in Alabama, and I'm sitting
in fourth place on that on that tour, so I
feel pretty good about going into this last one.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
How do you pick where you go? I've always wondered that.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So after forty three years of doing this for a.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Little okay, so I was a little short of one
hundred and twenty eight, but keep going a little bit.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
A little bit.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
Yeah, I'm kind of in the mindset of I want
to go to places where I like to go fish
and where it fits my fishing style. So I've changed
up a little bit the last couple of years, and
I'm fishing two tours from the American bath Anglers that
they're no co angler I get. I can kind of
pick and choose events and I can fish places that
(07:03):
I like to fish.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And I'm having fun.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
I won a couple events last year, made two national championships,
going to make one this year, and.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
It's just fun again.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
And you know, I really like fishing in Alabama, Gunnersville
and Neally Henry and Chickamunga here in Tennessee, and you know,
I don't have to travel as far and it's just fun.
So I'm really looking forward to seeing what they're going
to do next year for their locations, but anywhere they
go is usually clime.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Mike Delvisco is my guest, And when you get to
be of a certain age, I know you love to
teach and you're a mainstay in the boat sport and
travel show area for fishing, and you're always a highlight
and people come to see you specifically, which is why
the renfro production folks are always great because they match
(07:56):
the audience. But I know you love to teach and
you're constantly out there promoting and that probably never gets old.
Being blanked on day one of the new season doesn't
make it any easier. But I know your first and
foremost is teaching and being out there and engaging with
folks and maybe in a way giving back. But here
(08:17):
you are, You're out there talking and I know we've
had this conversation before, but technology has always changed, and
God only knows since the last time I talked to you.
They might just pull the fish in the boat for
you now. I'm not sure. But how are things? What's
the list with forward facing sonar?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, you know, it's not changed a whole bunch.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
You know, some of the newer products, transducers are getting
a little bit better, a little clearer, things like that.
There's not been a huge jump in the technology yet.
I don't know what's coming down the line, but you
know it's certainly here to say it's not going to
go anywhere. And what we're seeing is some of the
some of the tours are limiting use and some of
them are not allowing that the use of the technology,
(09:00):
which I think is pretty cool, and some of them
has restrictions on you know, the number of inches you
can have in screens, what you know, when you can
use it during the day or multiple days, and things
like that. So we're seeing, you know, the rules with
different organizations kind of change a little bit depending upon
the technology. But the thing that I like about where
(09:23):
I'm fishing this year is that a lot of times
that the technology doesn't play into having the ability to
catch them or not catch them, or compete or not compete.
You know, when you go to Gunnersville or you go
to the Chick you can catch them shallow just as
well as you can catch them beep.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And that's what I like because that's my style and
that's why I'm having so much fun.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Mike Delvisco is our guest, and you've had such loyal
sponsorship and so many of the folks that are contributors
here in Indian Outdoors have a very loyal sponsorship following,
and the folks that you have partnered with. Texas Roadhouse
has been such a great partner to you, and we
thank them for making you possible to get out there.
(10:08):
So just recently, you finished up your third annual Celebrity
pro Am. It was for charity. I know you take
great pride in that. Sorry we didn't get it on
before the event, but tell us what you want people
to know about this event, this third annual that was
down at Douglas Lake.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
So I started this thing three years ago and it
was kind of a.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Way for me to give back a little bit.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
The event is a benefit for the American Tonight It's Association,
and Texas Roadhouse is pretty heavily involved with them, and
we actually do one hundred percent sales day it's usually
in February, where we we donate one hundred percent of
our sales company wide to their organization.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And one of the things I wanted to do is
as I wanted to try.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
To give back a little bit, and I came up
with this idea of having a celebrity pro Am fishing
tournament right here on Douglas Lake.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Where I live.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
And it pairs a fishing pro with a celebrity, typically
a country music artist, and the third person buys the
seat to come fish, and we do it auction style
and we fish and we have a good time for
half a day, and then we also have a big
kickoff part of the evening before with food and a
(11:24):
prize giveaway and meet and mingle with our pros and
celebrities and vendors and our vendor sponsors come in. And
then we also have a country music concert to go
with it, so it's it's more of an event and
to bring about awareness to tonightis And it's actually I
didn't know this, but it's it's pronounced Tintish, but I
(11:45):
say Tonitus because that's how everybody really knows it. And
it's becoming a really really nice event here in town,
and and we're getting, you know, a lot of recognition
for it too. You know, people in town, you know
when I'm driving around, say, you know, we can't wait
for you know, next year of the event, and it's
typically sometime the third week of August every year.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Is when we have it.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well, that's good to know for next year. But I
did not realize when I was talking about your sponsorship,
but you kind of wanted to honor the life of
one of your friends, Kent Taylor. He he you're paying
tribute to him as the founder of Texas Roadhouse, who
had severe Tenetus. Thank you for the correction on that.
So I think this is this is what makes the
(12:30):
outdoor world great. You've been rewarded in your career and
now you're giving back in so many meaningful ways. And
I find this story repeated almost to a person out
there on these whether you're a professional hunter or fisherman,
they always have these causes, so great work giving back.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yeah, it's like I said, it's a really fun event.
And you know, I'm just blown away every year by
the amount of people that come out and support it.
From our you know, all of my pro fishing friends
that are you know, loving the event, that wanting to
come out. Did they say it's their favorite of end
of the year, to all the country, met the artists
and celebrities that donate their time in coming out, to
(13:06):
all the sponsors.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So it's it's a really good event.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And I'll actually start working the next year's event here
in another probably two months.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Well, there's no rest for the Wicked. So you've you've
got a lot of stuff you've already talked about, and
you're looking forward to a couple more events as we
ease into the fall. What do you do in the wintertime.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Sleep. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I was going to say, if you're like me, you
do nothing, that's a fair answer.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Uh, you know, the fishing here down in Tennessee is
really good till about you know, the first of December
is and it seems like the plug gets cold the
first of December and everything gets really cold. So uh,
you know, our fish are still biting really good, and
that's you know, one of my favorite times a year
to get out and fish in top water baits.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And things like that.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
So I'll be I'll be fishing for fun quite a
bit here and probably later in October November, and then
you know, of course getting ready for show's season which starts.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
In January, so there's not a lot of downtime.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
How many shows are you going to do, because we've
been talking to our friends at Renfro already. Of course,
they just coming up here have their fall URV show,
which it seems like an afterthought, but it's still very
intense and they do such a great job meeting what
the folks want with this fall URV show. But then
it's hard to believe seventy one years of the boat,
sport and travel show they're bringing back the Motorcycle Expo.
(14:30):
They've already got plans and the works for some new
buildings that they're going to be able to use that
have come online in the last year. It's kind of
changed the way the show has gone. But the Motorcycle
Show is so popular they had to give it more space.
But the Deer Turkey Waterfowl Expo is in there, and
of course the hog Trough and all the stuff in
Tackle Town. I hope you're going to be there.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I am certainly going to be there.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
I talked to Kevin about two weeks ago and we
are all locked in for twenty twenty, as well as
a full slate of other events and going on all
around the country. So I'm pretty much flat out January February,
and then we start fishing in March.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Well I should have known if I said, what do
you do when you're not fishing in the in the
winter time before your season? I know you love to
cook anything new coming out of the kitchen, and Mike
delvisco you.
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Know, I think I'm gonna do some salmon today. I
was up in Wisconsin a few weeks ago for our
annual Ketchings Roadhouse Kids Fishing Derby in Wansaw, and I
had an opportunity to sneak out and go catch some
salmon out of Lake Michigan.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
It was a ton of fun.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
And I've got some nice filets here, some coal filets,
and I'm gonna gonna probably just do some simple filets tonight.
But I really want to do like a Toho eggs benedict.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Of Coho cake eggs benedict. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
You know what, if you and I ever traveled together, Uh,
I'm living with you because you always bring out the
great food. Plus I know you're an Italian fish hionado
and we I just love that about you because we
share that. I that's what I do in my downtime.
I just go to the refrigerator and start making stuff.
But my gosh, you got all kinds of good things.
It sounds like you've got in store. Most importantly, I
(16:14):
can't thank you enough for being a part of Indiana Outdoors.
Anything else for the good of the cause that we
haven't talked about. I'd like to make sure people know
what you got going on, or what's important or what
you're seeing out there. Did you make it to ICST
this year?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
So I did not make it down there this year.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
We had have so much going on would trying to
get this tournament planned, that I couldn't sneak away for
a couple of days. And I had I had some
other travels, doing some electronic trips, you know, teaching people
how to use their sonar. That was kind of right
in the middle of everything, so I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Able to get there.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
I heard some some pretty good things, you know, my
friends from Rapaula did real good there at the show,
and I heard there was a lot of new, you know,
new types of products and categories coming out.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
But I'm kind of sorry I didn't get there this year.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
It's always great to visit with you and look forward
to seeing as your wife's still traveling with you when
she can.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
She does when she can, you know, she's got to
work every now and then, but she does get out
and I'm thankful for every time that we get to
go travel together.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
It's a terrible habit when work gets in the way
of our fun, right, That's right, Mike. Always great to
visit with you. It's going to be here before you
know what We're going to see in Indianapolis. Best of luck,
finishing out the year, enjoy some rest and relaxation before
it kicks back after the first of the year, but
appreciate the update from the tour. Thanks for being a
part of Indian Outdoors Awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Thanks very much, Brian.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
My pleasure. Mike Delvisco one of the hardest working guys,
nicest guys out there. We look forward to him. Fan favorite.
It is the Indian Outdoor Show. I your host, Brian Pointer.
Don't think about going anywhere. This show is just getting started.
No better way to do it. We're going to be
back right after this. The Indian Outdoor Show rolls on.
(18:12):
So great to visit with you each and every week.
I want to thank my good friend Mike del Visco,
one of the hardest working guys. He's truly just a
funny dude on the professional bass fishing world and always
great to catch up with him. He's had a big
charity tournament that he was putting together and I was
like talking recipes with del Visco. He wants to open
(18:35):
up a little restaurant in his house and he serves
what he wants and you don't get any substitutions, and
I'm all about that. Love him all right now. To
the point of the matter. We've been talking all morning
about the fact that we have Mark Damien Dudah back
with us. And Mark, it's always great to have you
be a part of Indiana Outdoors because you do such
great work that's so important, and we get to have
(18:57):
these extending conversations because it's not worthy of it's worthy
of every bit of minute in time that we can give.
So I always love to ask how you doing, what
have you been working on.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
I'm doing great, Thanks for the very kind words, and
happy to be here. So it's all been good.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Why don't we talk in general about what responsive management
is because you do such meaningful work, but it's so diverse.
Tell us about your career.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Sure, Well, this is thirty five years thirty five years
in doing what we call the human dimensions of natural resources,
and that's basically the intersection between people and the outdoors.
So wherever people and the outdoors intersect, which is everywhere
we get involved. So my favorite quote that I've used
(19:45):
over the years is by Leopold who says that the
problem of wildlife management is not how we should handle
the deer. The real problem is one of human management.
Wildlife management is comparatively easy. Human mana management is difficult.
So we focus on the people side of things.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Well, we visited and beneficiaries of a lot of the
input studies that you've done on people's perceptions of hunting,
people's perceptions of fishing, all the and hunting, all of
those things, shooting sports. But you always have things in
the works, and I want to open it up to
(20:24):
you to kind of talk about some of the material
that you've put out there and that you're proud of
and talking about as you travel around the country.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Sure.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
Well, yeah, when we talked, I was like, when would
we talked last time? Because sometimes it feels like it's
been I know what.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I'm hearing you saying is you just miss me and
we can't talk enough because that's where I feel into.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
Okay, I did, and he said it was several months ago.
So the good news is that we certainly can report
on a couple of new studies. Not fantastic news when
it comes to what we're seeing, but something that we
kind of just need to look at and talk about
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Let's do it.
Speaker 5 (21:02):
Two big studies that we've done since we do about
thirty five forty studies a year, but for this topic,
two new studies, one on actual shooting participation in the
shooting sports and then an attitude study. So the first
one we do every year. We've done a study every
(21:23):
other year since about two thousand and eight for the
National Shooting Sports Foundation on how many people are participating
in the shooting sports and target shooting and handguns and
indoor ranges and outdoor ranges and all of those things skeet.
And then the other one is on how the public
views hunting and the shooting sports, and that was done
(21:47):
for the Council to advance the hunting and shooting sports
related the different but we can sort of take each one,
maybe talk about the participation one and then attitudes.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Let's do it. You know, it's ironic because just a
couple of weeks ago Chris Lee was with us from
the National Shooting Sports Foundation celebrating and talking about National
Shooting Sports Months. So you take it away, it's all
good stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Perfect.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
Well, yeah, we've been doing these studies for a long time.
The shooting sports study since two thousand and eight seems
like just yesterday, but quite a long time ago. The
attitude study we've been doing since the nineteen nineties, nineteen
ninety one to the exact.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
But over the years, you know, we've.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Seen things go up, seen things drop a little bit.
But sort of a spoiler alert is that I'm bringing
not as good news as I wish I were. But
in both of those we can get into specifics. But
in both of those, we're seeing declines in the shooting sports,
and we are seeing declines in public support for hunting
(22:50):
in the shooting sports. Now, before I say anything more,
it's relative. You know, you might go from fifty four
million people shooting to fifty million. Well, that's significant. I'd
rather see it go up. There's some reasons for that,
as well as the attitudes so.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Well as we know in the pandemic people and Chris
Lee and I even talked about this record numbers of
people taking to the range buying guns, figuring out that
the shooting sports is just fantastic for all ages. And
you're right, four million net loss, whatever that might mean
is is significant. But I don't want to steal your thunder.
What do you take from all this?
Speaker 5 (23:30):
Yeah, well, there's a lot of good news here. First,
our studies show that about twenty percent of Americans one
out of every five Americans go shooting in a year.
I mean, that's amazing because people are like, oh, no way,
you know, our number hovers around fifty million. Around fifty
million Americans go out either plink or go to a range,
(23:54):
or go to a public area and shoot, whether it's
you know whatever, with a rifle, with a handgun. Fifty
million people, it's a lot. It has decreased over the
past few years. Whether or not that was that huge bump, well,
there's two things going on. We saw a huge increase
from about twenty ten to about twenty and twenty. I
(24:17):
mean just you know, double digits gains every couple of years.
More and more people sports shooting, going out, enjoying firearms,
buying firearms. So we are you know, we were at
a peak at around twenty twenty. The pandemic came and
more and more people were shooting. We saw a decrease
in shooting at an indoor range, but otherwise we saw
(24:39):
some huge increases. And we not only saw huge increases
with our traditional folks, more rural, more southern, more male,
but we saw huge increases in black residents, in urban residents,
in suburban residents, in women in younger individuals. So that's
(25:00):
what you know. So think about a line going up.
I wish I was lecturing because I could show you
this line going up and up and up and up.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
We hit this peak at.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
Around twenty twenty, and we stabilize between about twenty two
twenty three, and just recently in twenty four we said,
did see a slight drop. And what's interesting, though, is
we saw that flight drop with our traditional folks. Now
again this is this is actually going participating. You can
(25:28):
have a gun and not participate, and a lot of
people do. It's crazy, but we've got a lot of
people sitting around with guns in their nightstands and they're
gun safe and they're not shooting them. But anyways, so
we saw this decrease of about three four percent from
about twenty four to twenty five percent or about twenty percent.
But the important thing too, is that like I said,
(25:51):
that people have these guns, I mean upwards of forty
five to fifty percent. Almost half people think about this,
Almost half of American households have a firearm. And we've
seen that increase. We used to report about forty two
forty three percent, but over the past six seven years,
that's jumping up to around forty eight percent. And I
think a new Gallup poll just was just showing it
(26:13):
around fifty percent. So when you think, well, twenty percent
are going shooting, but yeah, fifty percent of American households
have a firearm, those high numbers of fifty million people
who go out every year makes sense.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, sure does. Mark. Can we pay a bill or two?
Because I want to continue this conversation. I want to
give you as much time as we can, and I
also want to get to the perception of side of
this as well. So when we come back, we're going
to visit with Mark DAMIANDU to continue this conversation. Responsive
Management talking about some interesting studies here about participation in
(26:48):
the shooting sports. It is the Indian Outdoor Show and
I am your host, Brian Poyter. Don't go anywhere back
right after this and Indian Outdoors. What a great day.
(27:12):
We're brought to you by Indiana Donor Network Driven to
Save Lives. We're visiting with Mark Damien Dudah Responsive Management
talking about the people side of the outdoors. We love
having his commentary and Mark, I want to jump right
back into it because you were talking about some trends
relatively on the downside. But I still think, like you
(27:32):
just pointed out, fifty million people that go to a
range is a phenomenal number of people. I'm interested are
there more things that you found in that that are
worthy of conversation because I am interested in what the
perception is as well.
Speaker 5 (27:47):
Sure, yeah, you know the top reasons that people are shooting,
they're shooting with a handgun about fifteen percent of Americans,
twelve percent shooting with the rifle in about seven percent
going to an indoor range. And when you think about
handguns shooting indoor range, a lot of those people are
(28:09):
doing it for self defense. And you know, maybe you
or I are a lot of your listeners sort of
take that for granted because we know how to use firearms,
but a lot of Americans don't. So a lot of
those people that we saw between twenty ten and twenty
on that increase are going to a range to learn
about firearms and learn about safety. And you can see
(28:31):
that in the numbers in terms of who those new
people are. Their black residents, their Hispanic Latino, they're female,
they're Democrats. Very very interesting in terms of those new
individuals editing generally from about about fifteen percent of all
of those people out there who shoot about fifteen in
(28:52):
the old days, you know, around twenty ten, it was
about twenty percent. We're new shooters, that went down to
about twelve percent. But we're bringing in new people and
that's why it's interesting that the people that that the
larger percent of this decline is due to to the
more traditional folks that we've seen. So we don't know
why that is. In fact, we're going to actually be
(29:13):
putting in a grant with in partnership with the National
Shooting Sports Foundation to figure it out. But you got
to know what's happening before you before you can do
something about it. And we're just we're learning that that,
you know, we you know, gun sales were going down,
We saw that, and people are just feeling comfortable, you know,
with with the current administration and they don't feel it's
as much of a threat to their Second Amendment rights.
(29:36):
So people are kind of like, okay, I have I have,
I have enough guns now I'm feeling a little bit
more safe.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
You take that back, you take that back, that's never
a possibility. Too many guns. What are people thinking of?
What are the people's perceptions.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Yeah, well, let's turn to a completely separate study. I'm
laughing for a lot of reason. We could talk later
on that. And I've had a nephew come down and
you saw my collection and some fun comments, and he's
in the military. But anyway, so let's talk about a
completely new study. We've talked about the National Shooting Sports
Foundation Participation Study. This one is on attitudes on what
(30:13):
do people think and know and feel about hunting and
about sports shooting. We've been doing this study since since
nineteen ninety so, you know, so with that thirty five years,
we've had these really cool trends. So we saw a
two three years ago high of about eighty one percent
about four years ago twenty one, but ever since then
(30:36):
we have seen a slight drop each year, you know,
from eighty one percent to seventy nine percent to seventy
eight percent. Now we're hovering around seventy three percent of
the American people support hunting.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
So there's and.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
It's about the same for sports shooting. And again there's
this there's sort of two things going on. One it's like, wow, man,
three quarters of Americans support the hunting and shooting sports separately,
hunting seventy three percent, sports shooting seventy four percent. That's
a lot, that's a majority. You know, people talk about
twenty eighty issues. So that's the great news that there's
(31:11):
we have strong support for our outdoor activities. On the
other hand, we've seen each year for about three four
years now a slight decrease and so the question is,
well why. And one of the things we actually did
a fairly major study with a group called the Outdoor
Steward's Group, and we did the survey research and what
(31:34):
was really interesting is that even with hunting is that
there was this with the people again, this is these
are the people who we saw lose support for the
shooting sports was directly related to crime and the use
of guns in crime. And it's like, well, wait a minute, wait,
that's that's a real leap of faith to say hunting
(31:58):
equals guns, guns equals violent crime. And so but that's
what they think, that's what we do.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
You know, we don't it's not true.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
I mean, we know that people who hunt in sports
shoot have less likely of a percent to cause crimes
like that. I mean, the guns that are begs mission
are illegal guns and so so it's like, well, gosh,
what do we do about that. That's a lot of
times I do studies and some of the solutions are
(32:27):
fairly simple. It's like, well, we need to get messages out.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
We did it.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
Just did a really cool study up in Washington State
on lost gear. It was with fishing people who are
losing gear overboards.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
I'm glad you didn't call me on that one.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
So yeah, and you know, you get snagged or whatever.
But my point there is just an example that we
can we can make people aware of that and they're like, yeah, okay,
I shouldn't I shouldn't throw that line overboard, or I
shouldn't do this, and and anglers are great, they're like okay, yeah,
I get it.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I just remind me.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
But how do you first break that thought that somehow
hunting equals guns equals violent crime.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And so that's a tough one.
Speaker 5 (33:12):
And so we're working on that, trying to figure out
ways to do that. But it's an interesting connection that
shouldn't be there, but it was. It was the reason,
you know, we saw that, and so so we're working
on that, trying to figure some things out.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I think we get those people back.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
But what's interesting is that in terms of who the
folks were, that in terms of the demographics, the biggest
declines were in the northern region, the northeast region of
the US, among females and among black residents, and so
so it sort of makes sense when you think about it.
(33:52):
But I think I think communications at this point increases
in advertisements and public relations campaign talking about the importance
of hunting and the importance of sports shooting and you
know all those benefits that go along with us.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Mark, you are absolutely one of my favorites and I
love this. Anything new, real quick, anything new coming up
that we need to get back with you before the
end of the year.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
Well, hopefully when I talk to you next time, I
will have gotten this trophy dear that I've been after now.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Oh, I love it, and.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
We can put I had a great turkey hunting season,
but I also went up to New England and I
got rained on for eight straight days during my turkey.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
All right, this is great, this is great. We're going
to put this into our next show.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Mark.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
I always great to visit with you. Responsive Management. Go
to their website pick up some of this great intel.
Appreciate you as always my friend, always an open phone.
Look forward to talking soon. Thank you my pleasure, Mark Damien,
due to one of my favorites. It is the Indian
Outdoor Show. We're brought to you by Indiana Donor Network
Driven to Save Lives dot Org. Don't go anywhere. We're
(35:01):
going to be back right after this and Indiana Outdoors
(35:22):
continues and I am your host, Brian Pointer. Love that music.
What a great show we've had. I like to think
they're all great, but I know that when sometimes you
get guests like Mark Damian Duda. We could have talked
every time I have him on our show. He is
the executive director of Responsive Management. Literally, I feel like
(35:43):
we could spend days. This is where I wish I
was Joe Rogan and had a four hour podcast because
the stuff that he does on behalf of agencies and
fish and wildlife groups across the country. You heard him
talk about the national Shooting Sports found institutional perspective that
is very very important, and I am grateful that he
(36:08):
gave us some extended time, very interesting subjects A little bit.
As he said, I'm not bringing you all the rosie.
We're down a few since our pandemic high on those
who participate. But if you think about it, the perception
still for hunting in gun ownership in the country at
an all time high, so that is good news. But
(36:30):
he says there's some waves and dark clouds that we've
got to move through, but that's all good. Mike Delvisco
is one of my favorite people. I love talking food.
I love him talking about his life on tour as
a professional best fisherman, and with that he has done
some great work putting together charity events and I'm looking
(36:53):
forward to seeing him at the Boat Sport and Travel Show. Man.
That's we just got done with the fair and here
I'm already talking about the Boat Sport and Travel Show.
We got a lot of stuff to do. Hunting season underway, folks.
It is the Indian Outdoor Show. We're gonna be back
next week. Remember turn in a Poacher one eight hundred
tip I D n R. Have a good one, everybody,
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