February 22, 2023 • 45 mins
Anne Marie captured portions of a conversation discussing the horrible case of Larry and Barbara Carrasco from 1997. After prolonged child abuse including the forcible feeding of bleach milkshakes, they murdered and dismembered their daughter, Alexia. Jessica Reale, her surviving sister, shares her story that ends with the successful investigation and prosecution by Jeffrey Rinek and Marv Stern, who shares the horrid details.
Chapters:
- Introduction - 00:00:00 to 00:00:30
- Setting the Scene - 00:00:31 to 00:01:01
- Investigating the Case - 00:01:02 to 00:01:32
- Searching for Clues - 00:01:33 to 00:02:03
- Discovering Evidence - 00:02:04 to 00:02:34
- Jessica's Testimony - 00:02:35 to 00:03:05
- Larry's Trial - 00:03:06 to 00:03:36
- Barbara's Defense - 00:03:37 to 00:04:07
- Psychiatric Evaluation - 00:04:08 to 00:04:38
- Verdict - 00:04:39 to 00:05:09
- Reflections - 00:05:10 to 00:05:40
- Lessons Learned - 00:05:41 to 00:06:11
- Overcoming Adversity - 00:06:12 to 00:06:42
- Hope for the Future - 00:06:43 to 00:07:13
- Conclusion - 00:07:14 to 00:07:44
(Originally aired: 22February23 )
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:00):
The views and opinions expressed in this program are those
of the speaker's and do not necessarily reflect the views
or positions of any entities they represent. Including all OLAS Media.
Bring me out of my room one day and you
have it all set up. Plastic on the floor and like,
(00:21):
there's a meat cleaver and there's Alexia pulled out of
the bag on the floor, and they proceed to dismember her.
And I have to watch. You know, is really awful
is that I felt nothing, but I haven't felt anything
for a long time. I think that was my only
way of surviving. Everything is how I played it off,
(00:43):
like it was a movie happening to someone else. I
still do that to this day. It's easier then to
make like it really never happened.
S4 (00:54):
I am Anne Marie Schubert and this is Inside the
Crime Files. Welcome to Inside Crime Files with Anne-Marie Schubert podcast.
I am Anne Marie. This podcast takes listeners inside and behind the
scenes of the investigation and prosecution of some of the
most horrific and notorious criminal cases in California history. This
(01:19):
podcast also examines some of the most unique cases, sometimes
with most unexpected endings. Today we're going to talk about
a horrific murder and child abuse case that happened in
Sacramento County, California, in the mid 1980s. That case is
called People versus Larry in our Scope. And my guest
(01:39):
today and I'm honored to be joined by Jessica Reale,
FBI agent Jeff Ryan and Prosecutor Marv Stern. So, first off,
I welcome all of you. Thank you so much for
joining me. And let me start off perhaps with Jeff
and Marv, and I'll start with you, Jeff. Right. You
and I have known each other for a very long time.
(02:00):
I'm going to age myself by saying how long, but
maybe give the listeners a little bit about your history
and the types of cases you handled when you were
with the FBI in in just a sense of what
you did with your career?
S5 (02:15):
Well, briefly stated, my first office of Simon was to
the Chicago Field office, after which I transferred to the
Manhattan New York City field office for I was there
for 11 years. And then after that, we came, Laurie
and I, my wife, we came here to Sacramento for
(02:37):
most of my career. Up until coming to Sacramento, I
worked white collar crime, organized crime. I also worked some
fugitive stuff in Chicago and also with new agents. You
always end up being on what they call title threes,
where you listen with the earphones on when you see them.
These people say with earphones on, it's usually a new agent.
(02:58):
And so when I came to Sacramento, Laurie and I
were experiencing a catastrophic illness with our older son, Joe.
He survived. He's fine, but it left us with a
real appreciation of and concern of children suffering. And for me,
the thought of a child suffering at the hands of
(03:20):
a stranger or or someone who means to harm them
was pretty much unacceptable. So shortly after I got here
to Sacramento, we had a seven month old baby taking
an armed home invasion. And I worked with the Sacramento
Police Department with their detective, Greg Stewart. And four days later,
(03:43):
we recovered the baby and arrested the people responsible. And
the FBI, like any good bureaucratic organization, started assigning me
everything that had to do with that. And to my surprise,
I found it to be my thing, my nature, if
you will. I can't describe it. I just very emotional
(04:05):
about it all. And then one of the in the
mid 1990s, the director was Louis Freeh. And Louis Freeh
tasked the FBI to get involved with local and state
investigators in helping to identify and locate children. And along
with that, we started working on other cases, all cold
(04:27):
cases where the child had not been recovered In cases
that were happening for me in the Sacramento area, I
also became very, very close with a lot of the
local law enforcement agencies. And for purposes of this case,
it was with the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department. And there
what their missing persons detective was named Steve Hill. And
(04:48):
Steve and I developed a very close relationship. And Steve
would call me every time the Child Abuse Bureau or
Homicide would get a missing child. And in this case,
I got a call at the office from Steve saying
that they had a small girl missing from the south
area and could I come and help? And and from
(05:10):
that point on, I helped with the case.
S4 (05:12):
So so before we kind of get into the the
actual case, you know, you and I have known each
other probably 25 years at least. And if my memory
is right, you worked a lot of pretty high profile cases.
And perhaps for the listeners, one of those cases was
the Carrie Stayner case. Right?
S5 (05:31):
Well, people call it the Yasmeen case. Carrie Stayner case.
I'm credited with getting a confession from a serial killer
who was Carrie Stayner, who was responsible for the murder
of four women in and around New 70 National Park,
which occurred beginning in February of 1999. And then he
confessed on July 24th of 1999. And from that point on,
(05:57):
the case involved preparing it for court. And everything is
currently on death row.
S4 (06:02):
So, Mark, let me just copy this up. Why? I
came to Sacramento DA's office in August of 1996, and
within a couple of months, I was assigned to your unit,
which was the child abuse unit. And you were my boss.
Tell listeners about your background. You know, your tour through
(06:23):
the profession of prosecution, that kind of stuff. Types of
cases have. Sure.
S2 (06:29):
Sure. I was a prosecutor for 34 years, the last
25 in Sacramento, the first nine in Orange County. And
a lot of my career before I was stupid enough
to let myself get promoted to upper management, was spent
doing child abuse cases, supervising the child abuse unit, trying
(06:49):
a lot of cases. And I would say the last 15,
20 years I did mostly homicides, and a lot of
those were child homicides, unfortunately. And so child abuse has
always been. Kind of a calling for me. It's it's
not something every prosecutor wants to do or enjoys doing,
(07:11):
but I always felt like it was where I needed
to be. So a lot of my time was spent
there and. Of course, this case came in during my
time as the supervisor of the child abuse unit. So. There.
It was on my plate.
S4 (07:29):
Yeah. What year did you retire?
S2 (07:32):
2014.
S4 (07:33):
Okay. So I asked. So you've talked about being supervised
child abuse, maybe. Kind of tell the listeners, what does
that mean to be the supervisor? What's your what was
your job?
S2 (07:43):
Well, I had seven players who did nothing but child
abuse cases, which could either be physical abuse or sexual abuse.
They each had case loads anywhere from 15 to 25 cases,
which is a very large caseload from child abuse. You
know what that was like. But you have to take
(08:05):
as many cases as come in. You can't put them
away because you're overworked. So these cases often go to trial.
They probably have the highest trial rate of any unit
because defense attorneys think they can win these cases. And.
You know, sometimes it was hard finding lawyers who wanted
(08:26):
to work in child abuse because it can be a
very punishing assignment, very difficult emotionally and physically. But I
got some great lawyers there, you included, and. For the
people who came there. They realize that that's why they
became a prosecutor in the first place to defend children.
And I spent four years in Orange County doing it
(08:49):
and seven years in child abuse case in Sacramento. So, yeah,
that was a lot of my career.
S4 (08:57):
Yeah, it takes a toll. I mean, it's when we
talk about child abuse, it's not just physical abuse and
some of that to talk about today, but it's also
sexual abuse. And sometimes the crimes are unspeakable.
S2 (09:09):
One thing the yoga teaches you is that it's hard
to believe what parents will do to their own children.
S4 (09:15):
Well, and sadly, just as I kind of introduce you,
that's kind of what we're here to talk about. And
let me first start by saying I am so honored
and willing to do this and to talk about what
happened to you, what happened to your sister. And in
so if you're okay with it, maybe you can kind
of just tell us a little bit about it. I mean,
(09:35):
first of all, this all happened in Elk Grove, California, right?
S3 (09:41):
Yes.
S4 (09:42):
So. Well, just start off with how did you. How did.
Who was in your family and how did you end
up in Elk Grove? If you remember.
S3 (09:49):
We moved a lot of places. Growing up, my mom
moved us everywhere, whenever there was a new job or
a new boyfriend. And I know six, seven moves into
my life. We ended up in Puerto Cordova for a
little while with my grandmother and my to my younger brother,
my younger sister, and she informed us she was getting
(10:10):
married to a man she met and then we moved in.
So we were very.
S4 (10:16):
So your mom's name is Barbara, right?
S3 (10:19):
Correct.
S4 (10:20):
Okay. So tell us about your siblings. Who was in
your family?
S3 (10:28):
I have a little brother, Chad, who is now what
is he, 31 or 32? And then I have Alexia,
who is deceased. And then I have another younger brother, Michael,
who was given up for adoption shortly after birth. So
he was there and didn't have any part of. How
(10:53):
was she? Or how old was she?
S4 (10:54):
How old was she at the time of her death?
S3 (10:59):
She was five.
S4 (11:02):
And how old were you at the time that this
went on in Elk Grove?
S3 (11:08):
It was from when I was 12 until 13.
S4 (11:13):
So maybe let me start off by asking. You said
your mom, Mary, went through a lot of man, I assume,
and ultimately decides to marry this guy, Larry. How long
were they dating before they got married?
S3 (11:29):
I have no idea. Because she was never really around.
My grandmother raised us so she would just fight us
a new place and a place to rent and she'd
be gone and come back once a month just to
take my grandmother grocery shopping. So I don't know what
she was doing or who she was with while she
was gone.
S4 (11:47):
She wasn't much of a mother, I care to say.
S3 (11:51):
Oh, no. We were. She was only a mother when
it benefited her to get, like, welfare, food stamps, or
to look good in front of somebody, like, Oh, look
at my children. But the actual parenting part, that wasn't
her thing.
S4 (12:07):
Okay, So you move into this home in Elk Grove
and can you just kind of walk through like, how
did this all how did this whole case happen? How
did it start your. Well, right.
S3 (12:18):
I am. I am. When we first started living, living
with Larry, I was in sixth grade. So I quit
schools and start go to school, grow and my grandmother
live with us, my brother and my sister. And things
were fine for a while. I mean, normal for me.
Like my mom was in the house. She wasn't parenting
(12:39):
or I don't really even know. I think she was
always kind of on drugs. It's just they become more prevalent.
Once Larry had an accident and he was home full time.
So I don't know if she used his injuries and
his narcotic use from those injuries to help her cause,
(12:59):
but it just went downhill from there. They both started
using and there was no getting out of it.
S4 (13:06):
What was their drug of choice?
S3 (13:10):
My mom left. Or I guess Larry did, too. I
don't know. I never really. Saw him. I'm assuming he
did it with her.
S4 (13:21):
So, Margaret, I'm sure you can attest to this. Sadly,
in our child abuse unit, we saw a very high
correlation of these types of cases with with methamphetamine and
other drugs.
S5 (13:31):
Right.
S2 (13:33):
Absolutely. There's almost always drug use in the background of
a child abuse case within a family.
S4 (13:41):
So tell us before we kind of get into what
happened to you and your sister. I mean, tell us
about your sister, Alexia.
S3 (13:51):
As she was quiet. She was a tiny little girl,
and I don't know what she would have become because
obviously she wasn't allowed to explore her full potential. Once
my grandmother was removed from the home, it was just
me and her and I took care of her the
best I could. But I know she wasn't who she
should have been because she didn't have exposure to children
(14:16):
or toys or anything like that. She was just she's
quiet and sad. Like, honestly, she was lonely.
S5 (14:28):
I don't know.
S3 (14:32):
Um. Of my mom's rule of thumb, as long as
she didn't have to pay for anything or drive me anywhere,
I could do what I wanted. So I guess if
I could have made my way to the friends or.
But we have what we needed. I was in school.
I wasn't deprived of anything. My grandmother took care of
(14:54):
us but come towards the end of my seventh grade
year right around before I turn 13. She started with
the clothes we were possessed and that she was God.
And so is that paranoid trying to figure out who
was trying to get her from. Messages in the newspaper.
(15:14):
She would read them upside down and swear somebody was
speaking to her and it just got worse. And my
grandmother didn't like it, so she fought back with it
and they she took my grandmother out. And then after that,
all hell broke loose. I barely went to school for
the rest of my seventh grade year because I had
to stay home and take to take care of Alexia
(15:36):
and just progressively. Became more physical and emotional abuse over
that summer. Because she was being abusive towards Alexia, she
always singled her out. I don't know what it was
about her. Maybe because she was the smallest and didn't
fight back. But she would always do things to her,
ignore her push or pull her hair. And my grandmother
(16:00):
wasn't having that. She said, You can't do that. And
I was like, Well, I'm their mother. I can do
what I want and you have to leave. Because in
the beginning, I thought Larry was a pretty decent guy.
He went to work every day at home, like. He
was just a normal, everyday guy. And then over that summer,
he started believing her delusions, too. And he wasn't as
(16:24):
physically abusive as her husband. Just like whenever she felt
like it, there was really no trigger for her, him
when he would be physically abusive. It was when we
were deliberately going against him. He used his size to
force us to do what he wanted us to do.
My mother had nailed our windows shut and lock our
(16:44):
doors so we couldn't get out because we were possessed.
And so our helpers were our team and friends couldn't
get in. I don't know where she thought we were going,
but she also thought I was sleeping with Larry's brother
and that I was pregnant at 12 and she called
their family up and there's all sorts of drama for them.
(17:08):
She would only let us out when it was convenient
for her. When I was in school, it was only
like at nighttime because I had to go to school
because she had to get in trouble by the cops.
If I miss too many days. When we moved to Cordova,
Lexie was probably three and a half before she actually
wanted to parents that day, and she made a bath
(17:30):
for her. She made it scalding hot and put her
in it and wouldn't let her out of it, even
though she was screaming and crying to get out. She
had mild burns all along her backside. Anything, anything would
trigger her to pull her hair color derogatory moves words
the and she was walking around the master closet taped
to a chair. I don't understand why she would do
(17:55):
such a thing. I mean, especially to an infant. She
multiple times offered her up to other people. I remember
we went to a ranch and my mom was looking
at a horse. She wanted to buy a horse. I
don't know what she put that horse, but she wanted one.
But the woman who owned the place was having trouble
conceiving and was looking into adoption. And my mom was like, Well,
(18:15):
here you should take her. And I really wish she
would have just left her. There would have been so
much better. She's only a few months old. But it
was all just a game to my mother. I think
if she could have got something out of it, yes,
she would have never told anybody that didn't breathe a
word of it to anybody. They are more afraid of
(18:37):
what would happen if I went home and nobody believed me.
So I just kept my mouth shut because she told
me the cops were part of the, you know, the
bad people and they're not going to help you. Nobody,
you know. And she just for years put into me
how worthless I was and how I wasn't going to
amount to anything and nobody would believe me anyway. So
(18:57):
I just kept my mouth shut and went home. Michael
had always lived with his adoptive father in Pennsylvania, and
she gave him up as soon as he was able
to fly after he was born. So he's probably, what,
six weeks old? And then Chad, she had sent him
a few months prior to the SATs, the summer to
(19:18):
live with the same guy that adopted my youngest brother,
because apparently in her mind, the boys were not possessed
and they were going to be the saviors of the
world and they couldn't be near us. So they weren't
there for the most horrific parts of it. One day
I came home from school and I couldn't find Alexia
(19:40):
and she was crying and she was in the master
bedroom closet, taped to a chair, legs and arms bound.
My mother was cutting all her hair off because she
said so. Well, sick bastards don't deserve beautiful hair Since
you can't take care of it, I'm going to cut
it all off while she's crying and begging her not
to cut her off. So I don't know exactly what
(20:01):
Alexa did to her off that day because obviously I
wasn't there. But it could have been nothing. It could have.
Who knows? But either way, being tied to a chair
and having all your hair cut off wasn't. Appropriate, appropriate discipline.
He was on a mission to rid us of our
demons and save her unborn baby because she swore she
(20:23):
was God pregnant with Jesus. And we were sucking electricity
out of the walls, killing them. And. All right. But
I think she came up with that. We should drink
bleach milkshakes three times a day for eight days to
help rid of our team. And they would basically an exorcism.
(20:45):
The first time I refuse to drink the milkshake because
I wasn't going to do it. He followed me into
the bedroom and punched me in the eye and I
had a lovely black eye for a couple of weeks.
And then after that he made sure we drank them
like so I didn't refuse after that. I was terrified
then because he's so much bigger than me. And the
(21:07):
first few times for like a day and a half,
I was able to get her away and help her
throw up. But after they figured out that we were
doing that, they kept us separated and locked me in
the room after I drank my milkshake. Erm, and then fourth.
I don't even know what other torture they did to
her after I was locked into that room. But then
(21:30):
I wasn't able to help her anymore. Alexa didn't really
make it to the day. From what I remember, I
think it was like coming up the eight days when
she passed away. Like, we didn't get all the shakes
that day. I remember being led out by Larry from
the hall, my bedroom into the hallway, and Alexia is
in the bathroom in the tub, and there's like a
(21:53):
red enema bag in there, too. And she's just laying
in there. I don't know. I can't tell if moving
or not, but she was making noises. And then Larry
brings me out, makes me sit and drink my shake.
And as I'm finishing up. Barb was like yelling for Larry,
saying that she's not breathing. I think she's dying. And then.
(22:16):
She lays her on the hallway floor, leans over her eyes,
does a half ass attempt at CPR. Realizes she's dead.
I swear. She smiled. And that was that. No more bleach.
I guess you figured. Well, we read the demon. We're
good to go. So I have to drink the shakes anymore.
(22:37):
And they just put our body in a trash bag
and put it in our freezer. I saw all of that.
I thought she was lifeless on the floor. And once
they was, Barbara thought there was no attempt in. When
she wasn't going to be saved. They just Larry, got
back from the garage that put her in one of
(22:58):
those big black contractor bags. And I was made to
follow rules. I had to follow them around because it
was always, Well, this will happen to you too, if
you don't listen or if you don't do as you're told.
So I was followed around and they put her in
the freezer for a couple of days until they decided
(23:19):
what to do with her. A couple of days go by.
It's normal. They're trying to be nice, like so they're
doing their drugs and hanging out in their room all day.
So I don't see him much, but I'm not locked
in a room. And then they bring me out of
my room one day. I to follow them into the
master bedroom in the master bedroom closet. And they have
(23:39):
it all set up with like papers and plastic on
the floor and like, there's a meat cleaver and a
saw and all these different equipment. And there's Alexia pulled
out of the bag on the floor, and they proceed
to dismember her. And I have to watch then tell
me why. I have to watch what they told me,
what I should say. If anybody asks for Alexia once.
(24:05):
And that if I didn't do as I told, I
would end up just like her. So I'm assuming I
had to watch because they wanted me to know that
this could happen to me as well. So I learned
that story and I stuck to that story of her
being in Chicago with her father for a very long time. Once.
And honestly, it's awful. But I don't think you could
dismember a body that small and inside of a closet.
(24:29):
I don't know if it was her aggression or what
it was, but there was she was. There was no
solid mass left, basically, and they put all the trash bags.
We went out to the living rooms and lit the fireplace.
And harmful, often harmful, which is burned. That evening we
went to the Sacramento River, and the Ashes, along with
(24:51):
all of the utensils, were thrown into the Sacramento River.
For probably a good month after that happened. They try
it like she was nice to me. He didn't have
as many derogatory comments. There was food in the house
like things were. As normal as I guess I could
(25:13):
expect them. I was allowed to speak to my grandmother
or really go outside, but it wasn't. Daily abuse and neglect.
But then it changed. I started eighth grade and started
all up again with the demons and the vampires and.
We're just starting the whole process all over again. I
(25:34):
think they did come out twice for like welfare checks
because my grandmother called, but I lied to them each
time they came and said everything was fine. Lexi's with
our dad of Chicago and we're good here. You know
what's really awful is that I felt nothing. But I
haven't felt anything for a long time. I think that
(25:54):
was my only way of surviving everything is I kind
of like played it off like it was a movie
happening to someone else. I still do that to this day. Right.
I'm working on it in therapy, finally. But. It's easier
then to. Make it like it really happened to me.
(26:16):
One night I'm sleeping and they come to my room.
The little night, wake me up. Tell me it's time
to die, demon Take me out to the shed. And they.
I've slept in there before. So it's like, okay, this again?
So I went out there, took my clothes to get
ready for school the next day, and my alarm clock
the whole day. And I got stuck on a lawn
(26:37):
chair and I wake up to them, Larry, it's all
over me. To exorcise my demons. And that I fell
asleep with was all over me. I couldn't change my
clothes because I didn't want to ruin my school clothes.
So I just slept laying there in bleach covered clothing.
And it comes in a couple of hours later, they
(26:58):
hose me off with a hose. And then I got
to school the next morning. And I went through school
all day. I didn't tell a soul, didn't tell anybody.
But I told one of my friends at lunch was like,
you know, you really should tell someone because you can't
go home to that. So by the end of that,
so worked up, I finally did tell my last parent
teacher that my parents were teach on me and I
(27:21):
couldn't go home. And then I at the end and
I was left at a receiving home. But I didn't
even know what that was. Where I had to once
again take another shower. They marked all my injuries and
walked me home. That's where I stayed for many, many months.
S5 (27:45):
I received a call from Steve Hill, who was in
the child abuse bureau and and basically telling me that
they think they had a missing child, that the child's
grandmother had called the sheriff's department to do a welfare check.
And when they went there, they believed something was really
(28:08):
wrong because Alexis's face had been cut out of all
the pictures around the house. And they also said that
they weren't able to get any kind of information from anyone.
That everybody kept saying she was in Chicago with her father.
And so we started going with them. I had my partner,
(28:32):
Bill Nicholson, was with me, and we started, you know,
just doing what we normally do, background, things like that.
And then I learned that Alexis, his older sister, Jessica,
was in the receiving home. And I believe that Jessica
had to know something and that the lack of what
(28:55):
we knew was just too much to accept. So Bill
and I went over to the child receiving home on
Auburn Boulevard, and we were permitted to be in a
room with Jessica. And I pretty much did the interview.
And and we basically when we started with Jessica, she
(29:17):
was you know, she's in Chicago. Jessica was very, very angry.
A lot of profanity. She hated us. Hated us. And.
But I just. I needed to know, I guess. I
don't know. So instead of asking questions, I started asking
(29:39):
Jessica to to introduce us to Alexia, to tell us
all about her life with Alexia, to talk about how
Alexia was cared for and what came out of it.
Is that the only one that cared about Alexia was Jessica.
And Jessica was like her mother. And as we started
going down this this path, I could see that Jessica
(30:02):
was starting to break down. And I made a choice
to continue, I should say that I looked for Jessica
for 25 years after this to apologize to her. And
from my interview, I caused Jessica a lot of emotional
strain and anguish, hardship that I always feel bad about.
(30:24):
But Jessica, once she accepted that she was the only
one left who could speak for Alexia. She told us
everything that had happened. She told Billy and everything that
had happened. And once she did this, we had an
idea of of what needed to happen. We reported it
(30:46):
immediately to Mona Fiord, who was the case detective, and
to Steve and to the Child Abuse Bureau. The receiving
home where Jessica was was not happy with me because
we would not let them into the room while Jessica
was in such a fragile, emotional state. But we needed
(31:08):
to know what happened to Alexia. And then as soon
as we informed the the Sacramento County Sheriff's Office, they
they rallied around Mona and they started putting together search
warrants and we started going to the house. And the
first time we went to the house, we found that
(31:31):
there were numerous graves of dogs in the backyard. And
with our inability to locate Alexia and with what we
had heard from Jessica, we were very concerned that there
might be parts of Alexia in the dogs. So we
we recovered all the dogs and we searched inside them
(31:56):
looking for pieces of Jessica. The coroner, the Sacramento County
coroner was there as well. It took us several days.
It was one of the worst crime scenes I had
ever experienced. But the bottom line was we didn't find anything.
And then we started facing the reality. You know, she's
got to be somewhere else. Jessica had talked about the
(32:20):
fact that she had been brought to the closet, frozen
and dismembered, burned in the fireplace. And Jessica talked about
the tools and whatever was left from the fireplace being
thrown into the Sacramento River. So we started going down there.
And had Jessica remembered that while they were at the
Sacramento River dumping all that stuff, that they had locked
(32:43):
themselves out of their car and had had to break
one of the windows on the car. So we really
did an extensive review of the parking area, and we
found a spot where there was a lot of freshly
broken glass. And we figured that must have been where
they parked. We called for the county search and rescue
(33:04):
and they brought divers in and the divers were unable
to locate anything. So then with the inability to locate
her in the river, we then went back to the house.
And by this time, the FBI, because of our director,
Louis Freeh, we were actively helping and we were using
(33:25):
our laboratory resources to help. And also in Sacramento County,
they had an evidence technician named Faye Springer, who was
just very, very much an expert. Yes. Famous. And she
was just remarkable. So to not go on too long,
(33:48):
we went back to the house. I will tell you that.
In a personal sense, I was extremely angry, and every
time we went into that house, their burglar alarm went off.
And I think it was like the fourth or fifth
time we went back. I had had enough and I
had just bought in a law enforcement knife from Steve Hill,
(34:10):
and I just cut every wire to their alarm so
we would never have to hear those noises again.
S2 (34:16):
I have to say that just listening to Jessica and
Jeff has brought back a lot of terrible memories. It's
a it's a very tragic situation. And you think about
that little girl in the life she never got a
chance to lead. And it it just breaks your heart. But.
(34:37):
Getting back to the narrative of all of this, I
was sitting in my office and Jeff and and someone
from the sheriff's office, I can't remember who. I guess
it was Mona came in and presented the case, and
at first it was just a child abuse case with
Jessica as the victim because we didn't know about the homicide.
(34:57):
So we were. We were talking about. What had happened
in the shed and the bleach being poured over and
reporting it to our school teacher. And that's how it
all started. And it stayed that way for a while
until Jeff and the sheriff's department were able to get
more information. And that primarily came from Jessica. They did
(35:22):
spend a lot of time digging up the backyard. They
use ground penetrating radar, as I recall, because they were
concerned that Alexia was buried back there. But there never
really was any physical evidence that really assisted in the
case at all because they had. Covered everything up so well.
There was clear evidence that they had changed the carpet
(35:45):
in the master bedroom closet, and there were signs that
the bleach had been used on the concrete there. And,
of course, the pictures in the House that law enforcement
found that were Alexius face had been cut out of
the pictures. And, of course, that she was missing and
nobody knew where she was. The FBI went to Chicago and.
(36:08):
Checked with the natural father and he said she had
never come to live with him and the grandmother had
never seen her anymore. So it was pretty clear she
was gone. And then eventually it turned into a homicide case.
We filed the homicide charges. I remember several times going
(36:28):
out to the receiving home and taking Jessica out, and
we would go to lunch and just talk about the
case and talk about what was going to happen. And
then that went on for a few months. Barbara and Larry.
Each did make statements to law enforcement, but they. Lied
(36:48):
pretty much about everything. Barbara would blame Larry. Larry would
blame Barbara. And there still wasn't any physical evidence. We
had a missing child, an older sister, who told us
what it happened, and that was about it. And came
to trial eventually. Larry's trial went first. We did a
(37:11):
jury trial for Larry Carrasco, and he was found guilty
of second degree murder. Jessica testified, She was my primary witness,
my primary evidence. Really. I mean, I was able to
prove other things. As Jeff told you, we have the
glass from the parking lot which corroborated her story about
(37:32):
locking themselves out of the car that day. And we
actually were able to prove that the the window glass
that they found came from a model of that same
kind of car they had. So that was actually fairly
substantial corroboration of Jessica's story. And the jury did the
right thing, found him guilty. The judge did the right
(37:54):
thing and gave him a maximum. And then we moved on. Barbara.
She pleaded not guilty by reason of. One of their
defenses was that bleach wouldn't kill anybody. So she must
have died of other causes and there was never an autopsy.
So how do you know what she really died of?
(38:15):
Another was Barbara. If anything happened. Barbara, dig it. I didn't.
I was just there along for the ride. Essentially was
this was what he was. He didn't testify. So they
kind of attacked what I presented instead of presenting their
own defense. But this these are the kind of things
that the defense attorney argued then there was not I'm
(38:38):
not responsible for what happened because I was in a
methamphetamine induced psychosis most of my time. So I wasn't
really aware of what was going on. And I was
just some bystander to this mess if anything happened. But
of course, in any nobody homicide, just like this one,
their primary defense is you haven't produced a body. How
(38:59):
do we know anybody really died? They presented very little evidence.
They just simply said that you couldn't believe what we presented,
that Jessica was not a reliable or she was. She
was a very reliable witness. I couldn't have won the
case without her being reliable. So as often happens in
(39:20):
many homicide cases, they don't really present their own defense.
They just attack what the prosecution proves, and they hope
that that's enough to convince a jury that there's a
reasonable doubt. Barber goes to a court trial with a
different judge. No jury. Her primary defense is, I was insane.
So I'm not responsible for anything that occurred. And the
(39:44):
defense attorney and I think it was Bart Wooten from
the public defender's office. We agreed on the judge and
we agreed to submit the evidence through transcripts from the
Larry Carrasco trial. So I didn't have to call Jessica
or any other witnesses this time. We presented everything by
a transcript, and the judge simply read the transcripts and.
(40:05):
Because insanity was the big issue where we called witnesses.
Both sides called witnesses were the psychologists and psychiatrists. It
was a battle of shrinks. And I guess my shrinks
did a better job because she was found guilty. The
judge rejected her insanity defense and she also received a
(40:26):
life sentence. Barbara Carrasco, who really was the moving force
in this, Larry? Larry did enough bad things. And, you know,
but Barbara was the one driving the bus. To use
a metaphor, that's appropriate given Larry's job was and. So she.
(40:51):
Orchestrated everything to hide what they were doing, including lying
to everybody, lying to the grandmother who who started all
this in motion by my reporting to see that she
thought something had happened to her granddaughter. They they did
everything they could to cover this up. They did not
act like people who were insane, who, you know, don't
(41:14):
care what happens because they don't recognize good, bad or
evil or anything. So she clearly was saying she clearly
knew what she was doing. She clearly knew her actions
had killed the little girl and she did everything she
could to cover it up and escape responsibility. And fortunately,
in this case, the criminal justice system ground her down
and and dealt with her appropriately.
S3 (41:37):
I've never heard from Larry once. I used to write Barbara,
who I was like. 18, 19, maybe into my early twenties.
It was really good therapy just to tell her off.
And then eventually I grew out of that and told her,
Don't ever contact me again. And besides the hearings, I
(41:58):
have not had any contact with her. She's still crazy.
She's never I mean, I don't think she'll ever take
full responsibility. I think she will eventually just get out
because so be so all, but just release her because
I think she's not a threat anymore. But she's never
(42:18):
going to just say, Yes, I did it and I
did it because I hate her. And that's really what
it is like. She admitted finally that she did never
watch us and she hated us. But she still blames
someone else. I think this most recent one, she blamed
most of everything on my grandmother. And that's why she
(42:40):
had all the actions that she had. She was angry
at how she was raised. Is. Of that true? I
have no idea. Because my girl is not here to.
Agree or disagree with any of what Barbara is now
currently saying.
S2 (42:56):
Well, you know, I think I've spent a lot of
time in in child abuse and heard so many cases.
And the one thing that always becomes so sharply in
focus for me is. That drug abuse destroys families. And
I've heard people say that. Drug abuse is a victimless crime,
(43:20):
that people should be allowed to use drugs and it
doesn't cause any problems except for themselves. But the reality
is that drug abuse is present in almost every serious
case of child abuse I've ever seen. And believe me,
I've seen a lot of them. And so what I
would hope people would recognize here is that this case
(43:42):
is the most horrific example of how drug abuse destroys
families and children. And people need to recognize that.
S3 (43:51):
Well, what I want people take from us is someone
to remember, Alexia, that really there's nothing that the few
photos I have, there's nobody alive anymore. Who? Can celebrate
what she did have. But the thing is, I want people,
(44:11):
children who are in a situation like I was, to
know that you do not have to end up just
like your parents. It's a choice. It's hard, but you
can do hard work, You can overcome and you can
become successful. I'm educated. I have my own business. All
my own home. Have three beautiful children. I have all
of these things that Barbara told me I could never
(44:32):
have or achieve. And I've done that mostly on my
own free will with very little help from the system
or anyone else. But I want people to know and
kids in my situation to know that they can do that, too.
You don't have to end up back in that same cycle.
S4 (44:50):
For the listeners out there. I hope you keep listening
to these. You can find us on Inside Crime Files
dot com and listen to more about the true consequences
of crime and the innovation and inspiration that comes out
of these cases. So I just thank you all.
S3 (45:15):
OLAS Media presents Inside The Crime Files. OLAS Media.
The views and opinions expressed in this program are those
of the speaker's and do not necessarily reflect the views
or positions of any entities they represent. Including all OLAS Media.
Bring me out of my room one day and you
have it all set up. Plastic on the floor and like,
(00:21):
there's a meat cleaver and there's Alexia pulled out of
the bag on the floor, and they proceed to dismember her.
And I have to watch. You know, is really awful
is that I felt nothing, but I haven't felt anything
for a long time. I think that was my only
way of surviving. Everything is how I played it off,
(00:43):
like it was a movie happening to someone else. I
still do that to this day. It's easier then to
make like it really never happened.
S4 (00:54):
I am Anne Marie Schubert and this is Inside the
Crime Files. Welcome to Inside Crime Files with Anne-Marie Schubert podcast.
I am Anne Marie. This podcast takes listeners inside and behind the
scenes of the investigation and prosecution of some of the
most horrific and notorious criminal cases in California history. This
(01:19):
podcast also examines some of the most unique cases, sometimes
with most unexpected endings. Today we're going to talk about
a horrific murder and child abuse case that happened in
Sacramento County, California, in the mid 1980s. That case is
called People versus Larry in our Scope. And my guest
(01:39):
today and I'm honored to be joined by Jessica Reale,
FBI agent Jeff Ryan and Prosecutor Marv Stern. So, first off,
I welcome all of you. Thank you so much for
joining me. And let me start off perhaps with Jeff
and Marv, and I'll start with you, Jeff. Right. You
and I have known each other for a very long time.
(02:00):
I'm going to age myself by saying how long, but
maybe give the listeners a little bit about your history
and the types of cases you handled when you were
with the FBI in in just a sense of what
you did with your career?
S5 (02:15):
Well, briefly stated, my first office of Simon was to
the Chicago Field office, after which I transferred to the
Manhattan New York City field office for I was there
for 11 years. And then after that, we came, Laurie
and I, my wife, we came here to Sacramento for
(02:37):
most of my career. Up until coming to Sacramento, I
worked white collar crime, organized crime. I also worked some
fugitive stuff in Chicago and also with new agents. You
always end up being on what they call title threes,
where you listen with the earphones on when you see them.
These people say with earphones on, it's usually a new agent.
(02:58):
And so when I came to Sacramento, Laurie and I
were experiencing a catastrophic illness with our older son, Joe.
He survived. He's fine, but it left us with a
real appreciation of and concern of children suffering. And for me,
the thought of a child suffering at the hands of
(03:20):
a stranger or or someone who means to harm them
was pretty much unacceptable. So shortly after I got here
to Sacramento, we had a seven month old baby taking
an armed home invasion. And I worked with the Sacramento
Police Department with their detective, Greg Stewart. And four days later,
(03:43):
we recovered the baby and arrested the people responsible. And
the FBI, like any good bureaucratic organization, started assigning me
everything that had to do with that. And to my surprise,
I found it to be my thing, my nature, if
you will. I can't describe it. I just very emotional
(04:05):
about it all. And then one of the in the
mid 1990s, the director was Louis Freeh. And Louis Freeh
tasked the FBI to get involved with local and state
investigators in helping to identify and locate children. And along
with that, we started working on other cases, all cold
(04:27):
cases where the child had not been recovered In cases
that were happening for me in the Sacramento area, I
also became very, very close with a lot of the
local law enforcement agencies. And for purposes of this case,
it was with the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department. And there
what their missing persons detective was named Steve Hill. And
(04:48):
Steve and I developed a very close relationship. And Steve
would call me every time the Child Abuse Bureau or
Homicide would get a missing child. And in this case,
I got a call at the office from Steve saying
that they had a small girl missing from the south
area and could I come and help? And and from
(05:10):
that point on, I helped with the case.
S4 (05:12):
So so before we kind of get into the the
actual case, you know, you and I have known each
other probably 25 years at least. And if my memory
is right, you worked a lot of pretty high profile cases.
And perhaps for the listeners, one of those cases was
the Carrie Stayner case. Right?
S5 (05:31):
Well, people call it the Yasmeen case. Carrie Stayner case.
I'm credited with getting a confession from a serial killer
who was Carrie Stayner, who was responsible for the murder
of four women in and around New 70 National Park,
which occurred beginning in February of 1999. And then he
confessed on July 24th of 1999. And from that point on,
(05:57):
the case involved preparing it for court. And everything is
currently on death row.
S4 (06:02):
So, Mark, let me just copy this up. Why? I
came to Sacramento DA's office in August of 1996, and
within a couple of months, I was assigned to your unit,
which was the child abuse unit. And you were my boss.
Tell listeners about your background. You know, your tour through
(06:23):
the profession of prosecution, that kind of stuff. Types of
cases have. Sure.
S2 (06:29):
Sure. I was a prosecutor for 34 years, the last
25 in Sacramento, the first nine in Orange County. And
a lot of my career before I was stupid enough
to let myself get promoted to upper management, was spent
doing child abuse cases, supervising the child abuse unit, trying
(06:49):
a lot of cases. And I would say the last 15,
20 years I did mostly homicides, and a lot of
those were child homicides, unfortunately. And so child abuse has
always been. Kind of a calling for me. It's it's
not something every prosecutor wants to do or enjoys doing,
(07:11):
but I always felt like it was where I needed
to be. So a lot of my time was spent
there and. Of course, this case came in during my
time as the supervisor of the child abuse unit. So. There.
It was on my plate.
S4 (07:29):
Yeah. What year did you retire?
S2 (07:32):
2014.
S4 (07:33):
Okay. So I asked. So you've talked about being supervised
child abuse, maybe. Kind of tell the listeners, what does
that mean to be the supervisor? What's your what was
your job?
S2 (07:43):
Well, I had seven players who did nothing but child
abuse cases, which could either be physical abuse or sexual abuse.
They each had case loads anywhere from 15 to 25 cases,
which is a very large caseload from child abuse. You
know what that was like. But you have to take
(08:05):
as many cases as come in. You can't put them
away because you're overworked. So these cases often go to trial.
They probably have the highest trial rate of any unit
because defense attorneys think they can win these cases. And.
You know, sometimes it was hard finding lawyers who wanted
(08:26):
to work in child abuse because it can be a
very punishing assignment, very difficult emotionally and physically. But I
got some great lawyers there, you included, and. For the
people who came there. They realize that that's why they
became a prosecutor in the first place to defend children.
And I spent four years in Orange County doing it
(08:49):
and seven years in child abuse case in Sacramento. So, yeah,
that was a lot of my career.
S4 (08:57):
Yeah, it takes a toll. I mean, it's when we
talk about child abuse, it's not just physical abuse and
some of that to talk about today, but it's also
sexual abuse. And sometimes the crimes are unspeakable.
S2 (09:09):
One thing the yoga teaches you is that it's hard
to believe what parents will do to their own children.
S4 (09:15):
Well, and sadly, just as I kind of introduce you,
that's kind of what we're here to talk about. And
let me first start by saying I am so honored
and willing to do this and to talk about what
happened to you, what happened to your sister. And in
so if you're okay with it, maybe you can kind
of just tell us a little bit about it. I mean,
(09:35):
first of all, this all happened in Elk Grove, California, right?
S3 (09:41):
Yes.
S4 (09:42):
So. Well, just start off with how did you. How did.
Who was in your family and how did you end
up in Elk Grove? If you remember.
S3 (09:49):
We moved a lot of places. Growing up, my mom
moved us everywhere, whenever there was a new job or
a new boyfriend. And I know six, seven moves into
my life. We ended up in Puerto Cordova for a
little while with my grandmother and my to my younger brother,
my younger sister, and she informed us she was getting
(10:10):
married to a man she met and then we moved in.
So we were very.
S4 (10:16):
So your mom's name is Barbara, right?
S3 (10:19):
Correct.
S4 (10:20):
Okay. So tell us about your siblings. Who was in
your family?
S3 (10:28):
I have a little brother, Chad, who is now what
is he, 31 or 32? And then I have Alexia,
who is deceased. And then I have another younger brother, Michael,
who was given up for adoption shortly after birth. So
he was there and didn't have any part of. How
(10:53):
was she? Or how old was she?
S4 (10:54):
How old was she at the time of her death?
S3 (10:59):
She was five.
S4 (11:02):
And how old were you at the time that this
went on in Elk Grove?
S3 (11:08):
It was from when I was 12 until 13.
S4 (11:13):
So maybe let me start off by asking. You said
your mom, Mary, went through a lot of man, I assume,
and ultimately decides to marry this guy, Larry. How long
were they dating before they got married?
S3 (11:29):
I have no idea. Because she was never really around.
My grandmother raised us so she would just fight us
a new place and a place to rent and she'd
be gone and come back once a month just to
take my grandmother grocery shopping. So I don't know what
she was doing or who she was with while she
was gone.
S4 (11:47):
She wasn't much of a mother, I care to say.
S3 (11:51):
Oh, no. We were. She was only a mother when
it benefited her to get, like, welfare, food stamps, or
to look good in front of somebody, like, Oh, look
at my children. But the actual parenting part, that wasn't
her thing.
S4 (12:07):
Okay, So you move into this home in Elk Grove
and can you just kind of walk through like, how
did this all how did this whole case happen? How
did it start your. Well, right.
S3 (12:18):
I am. I am. When we first started living, living
with Larry, I was in sixth grade. So I quit
schools and start go to school, grow and my grandmother
live with us, my brother and my sister. And things
were fine for a while. I mean, normal for me.
Like my mom was in the house. She wasn't parenting
(12:39):
or I don't really even know. I think she was
always kind of on drugs. It's just they become more prevalent.
Once Larry had an accident and he was home full time.
So I don't know if she used his injuries and
his narcotic use from those injuries to help her cause,
(12:59):
but it just went downhill from there. They both started
using and there was no getting out of it.
S4 (13:06):
What was their drug of choice?
S3 (13:10):
My mom left. Or I guess Larry did, too. I
don't know. I never really. Saw him. I'm assuming he
did it with her.
S4 (13:21):
So, Margaret, I'm sure you can attest to this. Sadly,
in our child abuse unit, we saw a very high
correlation of these types of cases with with methamphetamine and
other drugs.
S5 (13:31):
Right.
S2 (13:33):
Absolutely. There's almost always drug use in the background of
a child abuse case within a family.
S4 (13:41):
So tell us before we kind of get into what
happened to you and your sister. I mean, tell us
about your sister, Alexia.
S3 (13:51):
As she was quiet. She was a tiny little girl,
and I don't know what she would have become because
obviously she wasn't allowed to explore her full potential. Once
my grandmother was removed from the home, it was just
me and her and I took care of her the
best I could. But I know she wasn't who she
should have been because she didn't have exposure to children
(14:16):
or toys or anything like that. She was just she's
quiet and sad. Like, honestly, she was lonely.
S5 (14:28):
I don't know.
S3 (14:32):
Um. Of my mom's rule of thumb, as long as
she didn't have to pay for anything or drive me anywhere,
I could do what I wanted. So I guess if
I could have made my way to the friends or.
But we have what we needed. I was in school.
I wasn't deprived of anything. My grandmother took care of
(14:54):
us but come towards the end of my seventh grade
year right around before I turn 13. She started with
the clothes we were possessed and that she was God.
And so is that paranoid trying to figure out who
was trying to get her from. Messages in the newspaper.
(15:14):
She would read them upside down and swear somebody was
speaking to her and it just got worse. And my
grandmother didn't like it, so she fought back with it
and they she took my grandmother out. And then after that,
all hell broke loose. I barely went to school for
the rest of my seventh grade year because I had
to stay home and take to take care of Alexia
(15:36):
and just progressively. Became more physical and emotional abuse over
that summer. Because she was being abusive towards Alexia, she
always singled her out. I don't know what it was
about her. Maybe because she was the smallest and didn't
fight back. But she would always do things to her,
ignore her push or pull her hair. And my grandmother
(16:00):
wasn't having that. She said, You can't do that. And
I was like, Well, I'm their mother. I can do
what I want and you have to leave. Because in
the beginning, I thought Larry was a pretty decent guy.
He went to work every day at home, like. He
was just a normal, everyday guy. And then over that summer,
he started believing her delusions, too. And he wasn't as
(16:24):
physically abusive as her husband. Just like whenever she felt
like it, there was really no trigger for her, him
when he would be physically abusive. It was when we
were deliberately going against him. He used his size to
force us to do what he wanted us to do.
My mother had nailed our windows shut and lock our
(16:44):
doors so we couldn't get out because we were possessed.
And so our helpers were our team and friends couldn't
get in. I don't know where she thought we were going,
but she also thought I was sleeping with Larry's brother
and that I was pregnant at 12 and she called
their family up and there's all sorts of drama for them.
(17:08):
She would only let us out when it was convenient
for her. When I was in school, it was only
like at nighttime because I had to go to school
because she had to get in trouble by the cops.
If I miss too many days. When we moved to Cordova,
Lexie was probably three and a half before she actually
wanted to parents that day, and she made a bath
(17:30):
for her. She made it scalding hot and put her
in it and wouldn't let her out of it, even
though she was screaming and crying to get out. She
had mild burns all along her backside. Anything, anything would
trigger her to pull her hair color derogatory moves words
the and she was walking around the master closet taped
to a chair. I don't understand why she would do
(17:55):
such a thing. I mean, especially to an infant. She
multiple times offered her up to other people. I remember
we went to a ranch and my mom was looking
at a horse. She wanted to buy a horse. I
don't know what she put that horse, but she wanted one.
But the woman who owned the place was having trouble
conceiving and was looking into adoption. And my mom was like, Well,
(18:15):
here you should take her. And I really wish she
would have just left her. There would have been so
much better. She's only a few months old. But it
was all just a game to my mother. I think
if she could have got something out of it, yes,
she would have never told anybody that didn't breathe a
word of it to anybody. They are more afraid of
(18:37):
what would happen if I went home and nobody believed me.
So I just kept my mouth shut because she told
me the cops were part of the, you know, the
bad people and they're not going to help you. Nobody,
you know. And she just for years put into me
how worthless I was and how I wasn't going to
amount to anything and nobody would believe me anyway. So
(18:57):
I just kept my mouth shut and went home. Michael
had always lived with his adoptive father in Pennsylvania, and
she gave him up as soon as he was able
to fly after he was born. So he's probably, what,
six weeks old? And then Chad, she had sent him
a few months prior to the SATs, the summer to
(19:18):
live with the same guy that adopted my youngest brother,
because apparently in her mind, the boys were not possessed
and they were going to be the saviors of the
world and they couldn't be near us. So they weren't
there for the most horrific parts of it. One day
I came home from school and I couldn't find Alexia
(19:40):
and she was crying and she was in the master
bedroom closet, taped to a chair, legs and arms bound.
My mother was cutting all her hair off because she
said so. Well, sick bastards don't deserve beautiful hair Since
you can't take care of it, I'm going to cut
it all off while she's crying and begging her not
to cut her off. So I don't know exactly what
(20:01):
Alexa did to her off that day because obviously I
wasn't there. But it could have been nothing. It could have.
Who knows? But either way, being tied to a chair
and having all your hair cut off wasn't. Appropriate, appropriate discipline.
He was on a mission to rid us of our
demons and save her unborn baby because she swore she
(20:23):
was God pregnant with Jesus. And we were sucking electricity
out of the walls, killing them. And. All right. But
I think she came up with that. We should drink
bleach milkshakes three times a day for eight days to
help rid of our team. And they would basically an exorcism.
(20:45):
The first time I refuse to drink the milkshake because
I wasn't going to do it. He followed me into
the bedroom and punched me in the eye and I
had a lovely black eye for a couple of weeks.
And then after that he made sure we drank them
like so I didn't refuse after that. I was terrified
then because he's so much bigger than me. And the
(21:07):
first few times for like a day and a half,
I was able to get her away and help her
throw up. But after they figured out that we were
doing that, they kept us separated and locked me in
the room after I drank my milkshake. Erm, and then fourth.
I don't even know what other torture they did to
her after I was locked into that room. But then
(21:30):
I wasn't able to help her anymore. Alexa didn't really
make it to the day. From what I remember, I
think it was like coming up the eight days when
she passed away. Like, we didn't get all the shakes
that day. I remember being led out by Larry from
the hall, my bedroom into the hallway, and Alexia is
in the bathroom in the tub, and there's like a
(21:53):
red enema bag in there, too. And she's just laying
in there. I don't know. I can't tell if moving
or not, but she was making noises. And then Larry
brings me out, makes me sit and drink my shake.
And as I'm finishing up. Barb was like yelling for Larry,
saying that she's not breathing. I think she's dying. And then.
(22:16):
She lays her on the hallway floor, leans over her eyes,
does a half ass attempt at CPR. Realizes she's dead.
I swear. She smiled. And that was that. No more bleach.
I guess you figured. Well, we read the demon. We're
good to go. So I have to drink the shakes anymore.
(22:37):
And they just put our body in a trash bag
and put it in our freezer. I saw all of that.
I thought she was lifeless on the floor. And once
they was, Barbara thought there was no attempt in. When
she wasn't going to be saved. They just Larry, got
back from the garage that put her in one of
(22:58):
those big black contractor bags. And I was made to
follow rules. I had to follow them around because it
was always, Well, this will happen to you too, if
you don't listen or if you don't do as you're told.
So I was followed around and they put her in
the freezer for a couple of days until they decided
(23:19):
what to do with her. A couple of days go by.
It's normal. They're trying to be nice, like so they're
doing their drugs and hanging out in their room all day.
So I don't see him much, but I'm not locked
in a room. And then they bring me out of
my room one day. I to follow them into the
master bedroom in the master bedroom closet. And they have
(23:39):
it all set up with like papers and plastic on
the floor and like, there's a meat cleaver and a
saw and all these different equipment. And there's Alexia pulled
out of the bag on the floor, and they proceed
to dismember her. And I have to watch then tell
me why. I have to watch what they told me,
what I should say. If anybody asks for Alexia once.
(24:05):
And that if I didn't do as I told, I
would end up just like her. So I'm assuming I
had to watch because they wanted me to know that
this could happen to me as well. So I learned
that story and I stuck to that story of her
being in Chicago with her father for a very long time. Once.
And honestly, it's awful. But I don't think you could
dismember a body that small and inside of a closet.
(24:29):
I don't know if it was her aggression or what
it was, but there was she was. There was no
solid mass left, basically, and they put all the trash bags.
We went out to the living rooms and lit the fireplace.
And harmful, often harmful, which is burned. That evening we
went to the Sacramento River, and the Ashes, along with
(24:51):
all of the utensils, were thrown into the Sacramento River.
For probably a good month after that happened. They try
it like she was nice to me. He didn't have
as many derogatory comments. There was food in the house
like things were. As normal as I guess I could
(25:13):
expect them. I was allowed to speak to my grandmother
or really go outside, but it wasn't. Daily abuse and neglect.
But then it changed. I started eighth grade and started
all up again with the demons and the vampires and.
We're just starting the whole process all over again. I
(25:34):
think they did come out twice for like welfare checks
because my grandmother called, but I lied to them each
time they came and said everything was fine. Lexi's with
our dad of Chicago and we're good here. You know
what's really awful is that I felt nothing. But I
haven't felt anything for a long time. I think that
(25:54):
was my only way of surviving everything is I kind
of like played it off like it was a movie
happening to someone else. I still do that to this day. Right.
I'm working on it in therapy, finally. But. It's easier
then to. Make it like it really happened to me.
(26:16):
One night I'm sleeping and they come to my room.
The little night, wake me up. Tell me it's time
to die, demon Take me out to the shed. And they.
I've slept in there before. So it's like, okay, this again?
So I went out there, took my clothes to get
ready for school the next day, and my alarm clock
the whole day. And I got stuck on a lawn
(26:37):
chair and I wake up to them, Larry, it's all
over me. To exorcise my demons. And that I fell
asleep with was all over me. I couldn't change my
clothes because I didn't want to ruin my school clothes.
So I just slept laying there in bleach covered clothing.
And it comes in a couple of hours later, they
(26:58):
hose me off with a hose. And then I got
to school the next morning. And I went through school
all day. I didn't tell a soul, didn't tell anybody.
But I told one of my friends at lunch was like,
you know, you really should tell someone because you can't
go home to that. So by the end of that,
so worked up, I finally did tell my last parent
teacher that my parents were teach on me and I
(27:21):
couldn't go home. And then I at the end and
I was left at a receiving home. But I didn't
even know what that was. Where I had to once
again take another shower. They marked all my injuries and
walked me home. That's where I stayed for many, many months.
S5 (27:45):
I received a call from Steve Hill, who was in
the child abuse bureau and and basically telling me that
they think they had a missing child, that the child's
grandmother had called the sheriff's department to do a welfare check.
And when they went there, they believed something was really
(28:08):
wrong because Alexis's face had been cut out of all
the pictures around the house. And they also said that
they weren't able to get any kind of information from anyone.
That everybody kept saying she was in Chicago with her father.
And so we started going with them. I had my partner,
(28:32):
Bill Nicholson, was with me, and we started, you know,
just doing what we normally do, background, things like that.
And then I learned that Alexis, his older sister, Jessica,
was in the receiving home. And I believe that Jessica
had to know something and that the lack of what
(28:55):
we knew was just too much to accept. So Bill
and I went over to the child receiving home on
Auburn Boulevard, and we were permitted to be in a
room with Jessica. And I pretty much did the interview.
And and we basically when we started with Jessica, she
(29:17):
was you know, she's in Chicago. Jessica was very, very angry.
A lot of profanity. She hated us. Hated us. And.
But I just. I needed to know, I guess. I
don't know. So instead of asking questions, I started asking
(29:39):
Jessica to to introduce us to Alexia, to tell us
all about her life with Alexia, to talk about how
Alexia was cared for and what came out of it.
Is that the only one that cared about Alexia was Jessica.
And Jessica was like her mother. And as we started
going down this this path, I could see that Jessica
(30:02):
was starting to break down. And I made a choice
to continue, I should say that I looked for Jessica
for 25 years after this to apologize to her. And
from my interview, I caused Jessica a lot of emotional
strain and anguish, hardship that I always feel bad about.
(30:24):
But Jessica, once she accepted that she was the only
one left who could speak for Alexia. She told us
everything that had happened. She told Billy and everything that
had happened. And once she did this, we had an
idea of of what needed to happen. We reported it
(30:46):
immediately to Mona Fiord, who was the case detective, and
to Steve and to the Child Abuse Bureau. The receiving
home where Jessica was was not happy with me because
we would not let them into the room while Jessica
was in such a fragile, emotional state. But we needed
(31:08):
to know what happened to Alexia. And then as soon
as we informed the the Sacramento County Sheriff's Office, they
they rallied around Mona and they started putting together search
warrants and we started going to the house. And the
first time we went to the house, we found that
(31:31):
there were numerous graves of dogs in the backyard. And
with our inability to locate Alexia and with what we
had heard from Jessica, we were very concerned that there
might be parts of Alexia in the dogs. So we
we recovered all the dogs and we searched inside them
(31:56):
looking for pieces of Jessica. The coroner, the Sacramento County
coroner was there as well. It took us several days.
It was one of the worst crime scenes I had
ever experienced. But the bottom line was we didn't find anything.
And then we started facing the reality. You know, she's
got to be somewhere else. Jessica had talked about the
(32:20):
fact that she had been brought to the closet, frozen
and dismembered, burned in the fireplace. And Jessica talked about
the tools and whatever was left from the fireplace being
thrown into the Sacramento River. So we started going down there.
And had Jessica remembered that while they were at the
Sacramento River dumping all that stuff, that they had locked
(32:43):
themselves out of their car and had had to break
one of the windows on the car. So we really
did an extensive review of the parking area, and we
found a spot where there was a lot of freshly
broken glass. And we figured that must have been where
they parked. We called for the county search and rescue
(33:04):
and they brought divers in and the divers were unable
to locate anything. So then with the inability to locate
her in the river, we then went back to the house.
And by this time, the FBI, because of our director,
Louis Freeh, we were actively helping and we were using
(33:25):
our laboratory resources to help. And also in Sacramento County,
they had an evidence technician named Faye Springer, who was
just very, very much an expert. Yes. Famous. And she
was just remarkable. So to not go on too long,
(33:48):
we went back to the house. I will tell you that.
In a personal sense, I was extremely angry, and every
time we went into that house, their burglar alarm went off.
And I think it was like the fourth or fifth
time we went back. I had had enough and I
had just bought in a law enforcement knife from Steve Hill,
(34:10):
and I just cut every wire to their alarm so
we would never have to hear those noises again.
S2 (34:16):
I have to say that just listening to Jessica and
Jeff has brought back a lot of terrible memories. It's
a it's a very tragic situation. And you think about
that little girl in the life she never got a
chance to lead. And it it just breaks your heart. But.
(34:37):
Getting back to the narrative of all of this, I
was sitting in my office and Jeff and and someone
from the sheriff's office, I can't remember who. I guess
it was Mona came in and presented the case, and
at first it was just a child abuse case with
Jessica as the victim because we didn't know about the homicide.
(34:57):
So we were. We were talking about. What had happened
in the shed and the bleach being poured over and
reporting it to our school teacher. And that's how it
all started. And it stayed that way for a while
until Jeff and the sheriff's department were able to get
more information. And that primarily came from Jessica. They did
(35:22):
spend a lot of time digging up the backyard. They
use ground penetrating radar, as I recall, because they were
concerned that Alexia was buried back there. But there never
really was any physical evidence that really assisted in the
case at all because they had. Covered everything up so well.
There was clear evidence that they had changed the carpet
(35:45):
in the master bedroom closet, and there were signs that
the bleach had been used on the concrete there. And,
of course, the pictures in the House that law enforcement
found that were Alexius face had been cut out of
the pictures. And, of course, that she was missing and
nobody knew where she was. The FBI went to Chicago and.
(36:08):
Checked with the natural father and he said she had
never come to live with him and the grandmother had
never seen her anymore. So it was pretty clear she
was gone. And then eventually it turned into a homicide case.
We filed the homicide charges. I remember several times going
(36:28):
out to the receiving home and taking Jessica out, and
we would go to lunch and just talk about the
case and talk about what was going to happen. And
then that went on for a few months. Barbara and Larry.
Each did make statements to law enforcement, but they. Lied
(36:48):
pretty much about everything. Barbara would blame Larry. Larry would
blame Barbara. And there still wasn't any physical evidence. We
had a missing child, an older sister, who told us
what it happened, and that was about it. And came
to trial eventually. Larry's trial went first. We did a
(37:11):
jury trial for Larry Carrasco, and he was found guilty
of second degree murder. Jessica testified, She was my primary witness,
my primary evidence. Really. I mean, I was able to
prove other things. As Jeff told you, we have the
glass from the parking lot which corroborated her story about
(37:32):
locking themselves out of the car that day. And we
actually were able to prove that the the window glass
that they found came from a model of that same
kind of car they had. So that was actually fairly
substantial corroboration of Jessica's story. And the jury did the
right thing, found him guilty. The judge did the right
(37:54):
thing and gave him a maximum. And then we moved on. Barbara.
She pleaded not guilty by reason of. One of their
defenses was that bleach wouldn't kill anybody. So she must
have died of other causes and there was never an autopsy.
So how do you know what she really died of?
(38:15):
Another was Barbara. If anything happened. Barbara, dig it. I didn't.
I was just there along for the ride. Essentially was
this was what he was. He didn't testify. So they
kind of attacked what I presented instead of presenting their
own defense. But this these are the kind of things
that the defense attorney argued then there was not I'm
(38:38):
not responsible for what happened because I was in a
methamphetamine induced psychosis most of my time. So I wasn't
really aware of what was going on. And I was
just some bystander to this mess if anything happened. But
of course, in any nobody homicide, just like this one,
their primary defense is you haven't produced a body. How
(38:59):
do we know anybody really died? They presented very little evidence.
They just simply said that you couldn't believe what we presented,
that Jessica was not a reliable or she was. She
was a very reliable witness. I couldn't have won the
case without her being reliable. So as often happens in
(39:20):
many homicide cases, they don't really present their own defense.
They just attack what the prosecution proves, and they hope
that that's enough to convince a jury that there's a
reasonable doubt. Barber goes to a court trial with a
different judge. No jury. Her primary defense is, I was insane.
So I'm not responsible for anything that occurred. And the
(39:44):
defense attorney and I think it was Bart Wooten from
the public defender's office. We agreed on the judge and
we agreed to submit the evidence through transcripts from the
Larry Carrasco trial. So I didn't have to call Jessica
or any other witnesses this time. We presented everything by
a transcript, and the judge simply read the transcripts and.
(40:05):
Because insanity was the big issue where we called witnesses.
Both sides called witnesses were the psychologists and psychiatrists. It
was a battle of shrinks. And I guess my shrinks
did a better job because she was found guilty. The
judge rejected her insanity defense and she also received a
(40:26):
life sentence. Barbara Carrasco, who really was the moving force
in this, Larry? Larry did enough bad things. And, you know,
but Barbara was the one driving the bus. To use
a metaphor, that's appropriate given Larry's job was and. So she.
(40:51):
Orchestrated everything to hide what they were doing, including lying
to everybody, lying to the grandmother who who started all
this in motion by my reporting to see that she
thought something had happened to her granddaughter. They they did
everything they could to cover this up. They did not
act like people who were insane, who, you know, don't
(41:14):
care what happens because they don't recognize good, bad or
evil or anything. So she clearly was saying she clearly
knew what she was doing. She clearly knew her actions
had killed the little girl and she did everything she
could to cover it up and escape responsibility. And fortunately,
in this case, the criminal justice system ground her down
and and dealt with her appropriately.
S3 (41:37):
I've never heard from Larry once. I used to write Barbara,
who I was like. 18, 19, maybe into my early twenties.
It was really good therapy just to tell her off.
And then eventually I grew out of that and told her,
Don't ever contact me again. And besides the hearings, I
(41:58):
have not had any contact with her. She's still crazy.
She's never I mean, I don't think she'll ever take
full responsibility. I think she will eventually just get out
because so be so all, but just release her because
I think she's not a threat anymore. But she's never
(42:18):
going to just say, Yes, I did it and I
did it because I hate her. And that's really what
it is like. She admitted finally that she did never
watch us and she hated us. But she still blames
someone else. I think this most recent one, she blamed
most of everything on my grandmother. And that's why she
(42:40):
had all the actions that she had. She was angry
at how she was raised. Is. Of that true? I
have no idea. Because my girl is not here to.
Agree or disagree with any of what Barbara is now
currently saying.
S2 (42:56):
Well, you know, I think I've spent a lot of
time in in child abuse and heard so many cases.
And the one thing that always becomes so sharply in
focus for me is. That drug abuse destroys families. And
I've heard people say that. Drug abuse is a victimless crime,
(43:20):
that people should be allowed to use drugs and it
doesn't cause any problems except for themselves. But the reality
is that drug abuse is present in almost every serious
case of child abuse I've ever seen. And believe me,
I've seen a lot of them. And so what I
would hope people would recognize here is that this case
(43:42):
is the most horrific example of how drug abuse destroys
families and children. And people need to recognize that.
S3 (43:51):
Well, what I want people take from us is someone
to remember, Alexia, that really there's nothing that the few
photos I have, there's nobody alive anymore. Who? Can celebrate
what she did have. But the thing is, I want people,
(44:11):
children who are in a situation like I was, to
know that you do not have to end up just
like your parents. It's a choice. It's hard, but you
can do hard work, You can overcome and you can
become successful. I'm educated. I have my own business. All
my own home. Have three beautiful children. I have all
of these things that Barbara told me I could never
(44:32):
have or achieve. And I've done that mostly on my
own free will with very little help from the system
or anyone else. But I want people to know and
kids in my situation to know that they can do that, too.
You don't have to end up back in that same cycle.
S4 (44:50):
For the listeners out there. I hope you keep listening
to these. You can find us on Inside Crime Files
dot com and listen to more about the true consequences
of crime and the innovation and inspiration that comes out
of these cases. So I just thank you all.
S3 (45:15):
OLAS Media presents Inside The Crime Files. OLAS Media.
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