October 30, 2025 • 24 mins
Recently, Chris Thompson (Presenter of Behind the Scenes) visited Arts Centre Melbourne to meet Anna Molnar, Programme Manager: Disability, Arts Access and Inclusion. Anna is a theatre director, dramaturg, facilitator, producer and a Board Member with Rawcus Theatre. Her work in access and inclusion is from the perspective of lived experience, and she speaks about the many ways visits to Arts Centre Melbourne are made accessible to the widest possible audience - in particular her work with the venues and companies on developing relaxed performances.
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S1 (00:13):
Welcome to Behind the Scenes. My name is Chris Thompson,
and each week as we talk about the arts and
culture across Melbourne, across Victoria and across the country, we
acknowledge the Boonwurrung and Wurundjeri peoples of the Kulin nation,
the traditional custodians of the land on which we make
this show. We pay our respects to their ancestors and elders, past,
present and emerging, and remember that they are part of
the longest continuing culture in the world. In this special
(00:38):
behind the scenes podcast, I visit Art Centre Melbourne to
talk about their access program and relaxed performances with Anna molnar,
the Program manager for Disability Arts Access and Inclusion. That
triple barrelled title. Does that mean you work in three
different directions at once, or do they all sort of
(00:59):
come together in one kind of complex series of projects
that you take on?
S2 (01:05):
Yeah, I think that's one way of putting it. I
work in the programming team and my job is about,
you know, providing that support and expertise in disability arts practice.
So that's about, you know, disability led, um, work by
artists and also supporting the access and inclusion, making sure
(01:26):
this is a more welcoming place for audiences and artists
who are deaf and disabled. So a lot of what
I focus on is thinking about things through the creative lens,
not just about, you know, um, ramps or, um, you know, captions,
but trying to really make sure that it, um, speaks
(01:47):
to people's lived experience and that we are representing the
diversity of the community on stage and in our audience.
S1 (01:53):
And I guess, at the same time, preserving the integrity
of the arts experience so that it's genuinely. Still a
an arts experience.
S2 (02:04):
Yeah. Of course. I mean, I think, um, it's really
important that we make sure the arts are accessible to all.
As many as people as we can. And knowing that
we all experience the world in different ways. So making
sure that we can provide those avenues to make sure
that people can experience things in the way that they
(02:25):
best communicate and express themselves and, um, and also that
they can enter the building.
S1 (02:32):
Yes. So which sounds I mean, it can be an
intimidating space for people sometimes.
S2 (02:40):
I think, you know, it can be sometimes it's a
heritage listed building and with that comes with a lot
of responsibility of maintenance, but also in trying to make
sure that as much as we maintain the historic facade,
that we make sure it's fit for purpose for now. And, um,
now we know and we always known that we need
(03:01):
to make sure that we can be entered by all
people and make sure the arts are inclusive for all.
So we're thinking about not just ways to provide the
right information or, um, you know, provide interpreting services, but
also thinking about, uh, what are the ways that the
(03:24):
disability lived experience can be represented on our stages? And
how does the disability experience represent, um, arts practice? So
that's kind of what I look at when I'm working
on relaxed performances or on major initiatives like Alter State.
S1 (03:41):
And we'll come to Alter State a little bit later,
because I think you told me it's coming back, but
we'll get to that. Um, so that's I can imagine
that in terms of where. Is control the right word,
that you have control over what happens for the audience experience? Um,
(04:02):
that that's something that you must have much more, um,
ability to have impact on, then say what's happening on stage?
S2 (04:14):
Yeah.
S1 (04:15):
Is that true? It feels like to have an impact
on what we see on stage. Being inclusive. It's a
little seems a little bit of a harder task than
making the audience experience inclusive.
S2 (04:29):
I think, um, yeah, that's a really interesting perspective. I
think venues especially are really used to thinking about things
through the audience experience lens and, um, trying to make
the venues accessible as much as they can. And so
one of the ways that we do that is through
(04:49):
adjusting the sensory elements, providing quiet spaces, providing additional information
and wayfinding. Um, but we do really try to work
in close collaboration with our companies, both the resident companies
and also those that we present ourselves, um, to find
creative solutions, um, and think outside the box when it
(05:11):
comes to disability access. And, um, the Relaxed Performances program
is certainly one way we found success.
S1 (05:20):
And does that mean when you say work with the companies?
I mean, obviously you can't change a play or, you know,
rewrite an opera? Maybe you can, I don't know. Um,
but I imagine that, you know, I think of some
performances I've sat in that has quite maybe harsh and
abrupt lighting at certain times, maybe very sudden, sharp, loud sounds, um,
(05:44):
those kinds of, uh, elements that run counter to a
relaxed performance. Are they the areas that companies might be
in discussion with you about easing off for a certain
performance on some of those elements, going beyond just having
the sign on the door that says strobe lighting in
this show?
S2 (06:04):
Yeah, yeah, of course, we really want to make sure
that we maintain the creative integrity of the work. And
I think disabled audiences don't want a show that is
totally different to, um, any other performance it doesn't want.
We don't want a segregated experience. We just want, um,
(06:24):
to have an experience where, um, we can feel more
comfortable and where, um, some people are less likely to
have seizures.
S1 (06:33):
Which is probably a good thing.
S2 (06:36):
Yeah. Um, so and that's just me being very blunt. Um,
some types of sensory elements can trigger, um, uncomfortable, um,
responses for some people. So we look at how can
we make slight adjustments to maybe the volume of a
sound effect or music track? Can we, by using, uh,
(07:00):
house lights at a low level, kind of soften some
of the harshness of a lighting effect. And is the
company open to those conversations where, hey, for this one
show we won't use strobe. And another way that we
work with them is thinking about can we provide an introduction?
(07:20):
You know, um, making sure people feel more, I guess,
welcome to be themselves. You know, they don't suddenly stiffen
up because of the traditional rules and etiquettes of sitting
up straight and shutting up. You know that people can
feel comfortable to fidget, to make noises, to go in
(07:42):
and out of the theater. Um, we want people to
be relaxed. And, um, that means that we all have
to kind of, you know, be open to making changes, um,
both on stage and off. So we really work closely
with the companies we work with, our, uh, ushers, our
visitor experience team, and we make sure that we provide
(08:03):
all the right information through the point of purchase and
along the way. So we do visual stories as well.
And those visual stories really are a key tool in
providing access, because, you know, we want people to know
what to expect. And if there are going to be
moments that are a little bit more loud or have
(08:23):
uncomfortable lighting, we want people to know that they can
step out and still be able to follow the story.
S1 (08:28):
Mm, fantastic. Um, does that mean that, uh, relaxed areas
or chill out spaces, those kind of areas, you know,
that we're not just saying to an audience member, you
can leave if you want to at certain points. We
actually make the leaving a pleasurable experience rather than a
(08:51):
bit of an ostracization.
S2 (08:52):
Totally. Well, the doors are left open throughout the whole performance,
so you can always see a clear exit and you're
not going to make a fuss because it's already been given.
You've already been given permission to get up and leave,
and oftentimes there are fewer seats on sale. So that
means that people are more spread out, and you're not
going to step on as many toes as you're going
out of the in and out of the audience. And
(09:15):
then we try and create a safe and comfortable space,
either in the foyer, particularly for children. They love to
have a foyer space close by to run around or
for older audiences, a more private location, um, with soft lighting,
comfortable seating and beanbags. I'm. I've become quite an expert
in beanbags, actually.
S1 (09:39):
Have you become an expert in beanbags, or do you
just travel, shop to shop and sort of plonk down
in them?
S2 (09:44):
There are some that are vinyl. There are some.
S1 (09:47):
That don't like the.
S2 (09:48):
Softer material. Yeah, some of the beans make more of
a noise than others. You want a soft experience, and
you want to be able to get out of the beanbag.
S1 (09:59):
Without that terrible sort of tearing sound as you detach
from the vinyl.
S2 (10:03):
That's right, that's right. And I love a good weighted animal,
you know. Um, we've got some very friendly platypuses that
kind of comfort when they're sitting on your lap. They're
very nice, soothing, um, feeling and very soft. And we
also provide a lot of ear muffs, just in case any,
(10:24):
you know, if we have made any changes to volume.
But that still isn't at a good level for some people.
They can make their own individual changes. And so we're
trying to really empower people to feel comfortable to be
themselves at the theater and bring their own tools and
know that they're welcome to do what they need to
make adjustments. We are providing an entry point, but we
(10:47):
aren't saying that this is what it's always going to
be like. And I always think about being flexible and going,
this is what a relaxed performance is like for this show, um,
according to our principles, but it's not always going to
be the same every single time.
S1 (11:02):
I'm always fascinated by things like the introduction of relaxed
performances and I guess before that Auslan interpretation and audio description. Yeah. Um,
that they slowly seem to be moving towards just becoming
an accepted, expected part of the season rather than a
(11:27):
kind of special little add on that. You know, we
may kind of go, oh, I haven't seen that before.
You know, I often think at some point in history,
theatre became very serious about safety on stage. For instance,
you wouldn't dream of doing a show with fire, without
a fire attendant, you wouldn't dream of doing a show
(11:48):
that had a gun in it. Without an armourer involved,
you wouldn't dream of doing a show that had a
fight without a fight choreographer. Those things are just expected.
And I often wonder how far away from are we
from a time when you felt the same about Auslan
(12:09):
interpreters and audio describers and intimacy coordinators and relaxed performances
that we just go, we don't we don't find them
special or, you know, an extra thing. We just expect
them to be there. And so we're looking for, you know,
we're in the season are those things.
S2 (12:27):
Yeah. I mean I'm certainly expecting it more and more.
And I think a lot of people in the community
are and, you know, back in the day. The disability
community was not expected to be out and about in
public places. And now that there has been progress where
we are able to have, you know, wider doors and
(12:52):
Auslan interpreters available and people have developed the skills and
knowledge in this. There is that expectation. I think there
should be. We should always be striving to do better
when it comes to both safety for actors and safety
for audiences, and I think it's also an opportunity for
(13:12):
us to, you know, practice what we preach. You know,
in the arts, we think of ourselves as being very
progressive and inclusive. But we're 20% of the audience might
not feel welcome. I think we've got much more to
do now.
S1 (13:28):
We're kidding around before about the triple barreled nature of
your title. Yeah, but you're used to being kind of multifaceted.
If I look at your biog, I see the words director,
I see the dramaturg, I see producer, I see facilitator,
I see workshop person. Yeah. Um, that's a lot. Can
(13:50):
you just not make up your mind or.
S2 (13:52):
Well, I think in the arts you learn to have
a portfolio career and develop as many skills as you can.
I've got colleagues who are musicians, teachers, um, they are
also MC and they're downstairs putting together a bunch of
contracts as we speak. You know, so you have to
(14:13):
develop skills in a lot of different areas. Become a
jack of all trades, master of none. But I hope
I'm mastering some of these.
S1 (14:21):
And.
S2 (14:22):
I hope I'm mastering some of these skills. You know,
I think I'm always curious and always trying to learn more. Um,
but I think certainly in my training I learned how
to be really collaborative. And I think that's what one
of the most useful things in my role now is
getting to collaborate and work across a diverse range of
(14:45):
projects and teams with lots of different goals and competing priorities,
different stakeholders, and try my best to find solutions and, um,
you know, have wonderful relationships with people.
S1 (15:00):
Um, the other thing that jumped out at me is
that as many times as Melbourne and Victoria are mentioned,
so Brisbane and Queensland, not just for the work that
you do, but your training has happened in both places
and mentorships and you know the projects that you undertake.
S2 (15:18):
I'm definitely a stereotype of one of those Brisbane, um,
born and bred artists who have, um, flown the coop
and gone to colder climates. But I've gone back as
well and then flown back. Um, and I've definitely been
influenced and inspired by artists and the training that I've
(15:40):
experienced both at CU and VCA and, um, I think
that's what one of the pleasures of life is like
these days, isn't it?
S1 (15:50):
Yeah.
S2 (15:51):
More and more influences from everywhere. Yeah.
S1 (15:54):
Now, the kind of work you do here at the
Art center, um, was, was a passion for access and
inclusivity always a feature of your work or has it
developed along the way?
S2 (16:11):
I think that's a great question. Um, you know, I
identify as disabled myself, and I think that's kind of
my understanding of my own experience has grown over the
years and been influenced by the work that I do.
When I was younger, I worked for Backbone Youth Arts
back in Brisbane, who are an amazing company doing, um,
(16:36):
you know, really cutting edge work. And, um, I was
working with a group called the Light Ensemble, which was
a group of performers with and without disability and, you know,
developing their skills and devising new work together because, you know,
certainly at the time we found that there were a
lot of opportunities to be creative. When you were at school,
(16:58):
when you were a young person with disability. But once
you left school, there were there weren't as many opportunities.
So we were trying to provide those avenues. And, um,
I was also doing work in the independent theatre scene.
I was doing some work, um, you know, as a
primary school residency once, and I was, you know, got
(17:21):
a met, a crossroads. It was like I either go
and study teaching, I go and study law, or I
really commit to this. And I ended up committing and
flying down to study directing at VCA, um, which was amazing.
And I got to be, um, really thrown into the
(17:43):
deep end with, um, the program at VCA and getting
to work with, um, living legends like Michael Kantor and
Alison Campbell and, um, getting to do an internship at
Melbourne Theatre Company and with Rawkus. Um, so those were
really pivotal moments. But, you know, when I get to
(18:06):
do my internship with Rawkus, I go back and go,
oh my gosh, this work in the disability space is
really where my heart sings. And that's where I feel
authentic as well as a person. Um, so I started
doing residencies with Arts Access Victoria and Dada and um,
(18:26):
I spoke at an event called Meeting Place through the
old organization, Arts Access Australia. Um, so that's where I
really was able to come into my own and understand
who I was as a disabled artist and get a
sense of that disability pride. Um, then of course, Covid
happened and I kind of lost some of the passion for,
(18:49):
you know, creating work myself. You know, having, you know,
done works in progress at la mama and Frankston and,
you know, all these other works. I kind of shifted
away from wanting to create that work myself, but I
then became more focused on facilitating the artistry of other
people and really wanting to trying to, um, lift up
(19:13):
deaf and disabled artists and what we are capable of.
So that's why the opportunity at Arts Centre Melbourne came
along at the right time. Um, and I got to
develop skills in, you know, the venue management software and
procurement processes that are required at a government cultural institution,
(19:34):
which are really important.
S1 (19:36):
Well, if you don't have those things in place, they're
not going to do it, are they?
S3 (19:40):
No. And, you know.
S2 (19:42):
There's a lot there's many hands involved when to create
something on stage at a big place like this. Um,
and so that's been a great it's been a great
training ground and a great opportunity for me to share
what I know, um, from community, um, and help to
work with others to create a more inclusive space.
S3 (20:04):
Um.
S1 (20:04):
You said the internship at raucous, lovely. Raucous. Um, didn't
you end up on the board?
S3 (20:11):
Yeah, I know, I got a phone.
S1 (20:13):
Just let that little bit slide through.
S2 (20:16):
I am on the board at raucous. I've been on
the board at raucous for just over a year now.
I got a phone call and, you know, asked if
I was interested. And and they're an amazing company doing
some really, um, experimental, fun moving, um, really cool stuff.
(20:36):
I don't know, they did a show at Melbourne Fringe
called The Tattoo Show, and that was, oh my God,
it was Is more, you know, when you see a
show that's you know all about someone's getting tattooed live
on stage, you don't think it's going to be so, um,
soft and moving as that kind of edgy nature. But
(20:58):
it was it was a really lovely.
S1 (21:00):
If anyone's going to achieve that, it'll be raucous.
S2 (21:03):
That's right. And I think, um, that, you know, they're
doing some amazing stuff in, um, supporting artists with disability
to develop and lead the way.
S1 (21:14):
Mm. Um, so we've talked around it a lot. Let's
talk specifics. What's coming up? What relaxed performances can we
look forward to at Arts Centre Melbourne?
S2 (21:25):
Oh, well, I'm really looking forward to the summer because
it's going to be a really relaxed summer. And that'll
be starting with a Symphonic Christmas presented by Melbourne Symphony Orchestra.
Melbourne Symphony Orchestra have been doing these amazing series called
classic kids and every, you know, every few months there's
(21:46):
a concert for families with young people. And they also
include a relaxed performance. And it's so much fun. You've
got kids counting the aisles of Hamer Hall, going in
and out using the beanbags, and it's such a friendly,
warm atmosphere. So I'm really looking forward to the Christmas
carols with MSO at Hamer Hall in December.
S1 (22:09):
And then you've got patch coming over from Adelaide.
S3 (22:11):
Oh my God, it's going to be amazing.
S2 (22:13):
And I just love Patch Theatre. This is such a
beautiful show, you know, and I'm really glad that they
are open to doing a relaxed version. It is actually
quite a relaxed, gentle show. But there are, you know,
they are also doing really cool work with lights in
this show. So I kind of see this as a
relaxed performance for sensory seekers.
S1 (22:35):
Are so nicely put.
S3 (22:36):
Yeah, so we'll.
S2 (22:37):
Be providing the tools to make sure people feel more comfortable.
We'll have some sunglasses will have earmuffs and of course
the doors open so people can take a break if
they need. But it's going to be a really, really
fun outing, I think.
S1 (22:51):
And then a bit of Mahler and Tchaikovsky.
S2 (22:53):
Yes, we're going from the family fun times in the
summer to some really brooding orchestral music. And Melbourne Symphony
Orchestra have been going from that classic kids world to
making sure that neurodivergent audiences of all ages feel comfortable
at the theatre. Well, at a concert, I should say. Um,
(23:16):
and so that'll be in April with some beautiful Mahler
and Tchaikovsky. And I'm, I'm really excited, you know, having
a full length concert in a more casual way. You
don't have to be all formal about it. Um, but
they're going to make it more comfortable for people.
S1 (23:33):
And when in the year do we think we might
see Alter State again?
S3 (23:37):
Oh.
S2 (23:38):
Watch this.
S3 (23:38):
Space. Watch this space.
S2 (23:40):
You know, we've been working really closely with the foundation partner,
Arts Access Victoria on Alter State over the past few years,
and the plans are in progress. So I want to
be able to share some news, but I can't just.
S1 (23:54):
Well, it's news enough to know that.
S3 (23:56):
It's not.
S1 (23:57):
Going to just be a one off.
S3 (23:58):
No. It's coming.
S2 (23:59):
We we did it in online in 2021. We did
four weeks in 2022. Last year in October 2024, we
did two weeks. And we've got a program coming up
in late 2026.
S1 (24:14):
Well, I'm sure we'll be talking about all those things,
but especially Alter State later in 2026.
S2 (24:19):
And we're really committed to it.
S1 (24:20):
Maybe we'll get you back on the show to talk
about it.
S2 (24:23):
Oh, that'd be fun.
S1 (24:24):
Um, but for now, Ana. Mona, congratulations for all this
amazing work that's happening both here at Arts Centre Melbourne
and of course, at raucous as well. Thanks so much
for being on the show.
S2 (24:37):
Thanks, Chris. It's been lovely joining you.
Welcome to Behind the Scenes. My name is Chris Thompson,
and each week as we talk about the arts and
culture across Melbourne, across Victoria and across the country, we
acknowledge the Boonwurrung and Wurundjeri peoples of the Kulin nation,
the traditional custodians of the land on which we make
this show. We pay our respects to their ancestors and elders, past,
present and emerging, and remember that they are part of
the longest continuing culture in the world. In this special
(00:38):
behind the scenes podcast, I visit Art Centre Melbourne to
talk about their access program and relaxed performances with Anna molnar,
the Program manager for Disability Arts Access and Inclusion. That
triple barrelled title. Does that mean you work in three
different directions at once, or do they all sort of
(00:59):
come together in one kind of complex series of projects
that you take on?
S2 (01:05):
Yeah, I think that's one way of putting it. I
work in the programming team and my job is about,
you know, providing that support and expertise in disability arts practice.
So that's about, you know, disability led, um, work by
artists and also supporting the access and inclusion, making sure
(01:26):
this is a more welcoming place for audiences and artists
who are deaf and disabled. So a lot of what
I focus on is thinking about things through the creative lens,
not just about, you know, um, ramps or, um, you know, captions,
but trying to really make sure that it, um, speaks
(01:47):
to people's lived experience and that we are representing the
diversity of the community on stage and in our audience.
S1 (01:53):
And I guess, at the same time, preserving the integrity
of the arts experience so that it's genuinely. Still a
an arts experience.
S2 (02:04):
Yeah. Of course. I mean, I think, um, it's really
important that we make sure the arts are accessible to all.
As many as people as we can. And knowing that
we all experience the world in different ways. So making
sure that we can provide those avenues to make sure
that people can experience things in the way that they
(02:25):
best communicate and express themselves and, um, and also that
they can enter the building.
S1 (02:32):
Yes. So which sounds I mean, it can be an
intimidating space for people sometimes.
S2 (02:40):
I think, you know, it can be sometimes it's a
heritage listed building and with that comes with a lot
of responsibility of maintenance, but also in trying to make
sure that as much as we maintain the historic facade,
that we make sure it's fit for purpose for now. And, um,
now we know and we always known that we need
(03:01):
to make sure that we can be entered by all
people and make sure the arts are inclusive for all.
So we're thinking about not just ways to provide the
right information or, um, you know, provide interpreting services, but
also thinking about, uh, what are the ways that the
(03:24):
disability lived experience can be represented on our stages? And
how does the disability experience represent, um, arts practice? So
that's kind of what I look at when I'm working
on relaxed performances or on major initiatives like Alter State.
S1 (03:41):
And we'll come to Alter State a little bit later,
because I think you told me it's coming back, but
we'll get to that. Um, so that's I can imagine
that in terms of where. Is control the right word,
that you have control over what happens for the audience experience? Um,
(04:02):
that that's something that you must have much more, um,
ability to have impact on, then say what's happening on stage?
S2 (04:14):
Yeah.
S1 (04:15):
Is that true? It feels like to have an impact
on what we see on stage. Being inclusive. It's a
little seems a little bit of a harder task than
making the audience experience inclusive.
S2 (04:29):
I think, um, yeah, that's a really interesting perspective. I
think venues especially are really used to thinking about things
through the audience experience lens and, um, trying to make
the venues accessible as much as they can. And so
one of the ways that we do that is through
(04:49):
adjusting the sensory elements, providing quiet spaces, providing additional information
and wayfinding. Um, but we do really try to work
in close collaboration with our companies, both the resident companies
and also those that we present ourselves, um, to find
creative solutions, um, and think outside the box when it
(05:11):
comes to disability access. And, um, the Relaxed Performances program
is certainly one way we found success.
S1 (05:20):
And does that mean when you say work with the companies?
I mean, obviously you can't change a play or, you know,
rewrite an opera? Maybe you can, I don't know. Um,
but I imagine that, you know, I think of some
performances I've sat in that has quite maybe harsh and
abrupt lighting at certain times, maybe very sudden, sharp, loud sounds, um,
(05:44):
those kinds of, uh, elements that run counter to a
relaxed performance. Are they the areas that companies might be
in discussion with you about easing off for a certain
performance on some of those elements, going beyond just having
the sign on the door that says strobe lighting in
this show?
S2 (06:04):
Yeah, yeah, of course, we really want to make sure
that we maintain the creative integrity of the work. And
I think disabled audiences don't want a show that is
totally different to, um, any other performance it doesn't want.
We don't want a segregated experience. We just want, um,
(06:24):
to have an experience where, um, we can feel more
comfortable and where, um, some people are less likely to
have seizures.
S1 (06:33):
Which is probably a good thing.
S2 (06:36):
Yeah. Um, so and that's just me being very blunt. Um,
some types of sensory elements can trigger, um, uncomfortable, um,
responses for some people. So we look at how can
we make slight adjustments to maybe the volume of a
sound effect or music track? Can we, by using, uh,
(07:00):
house lights at a low level, kind of soften some
of the harshness of a lighting effect. And is the
company open to those conversations where, hey, for this one
show we won't use strobe. And another way that we
work with them is thinking about can we provide an introduction?
(07:20):
You know, um, making sure people feel more, I guess,
welcome to be themselves. You know, they don't suddenly stiffen
up because of the traditional rules and etiquettes of sitting
up straight and shutting up. You know that people can
feel comfortable to fidget, to make noises, to go in
(07:42):
and out of the theater. Um, we want people to
be relaxed. And, um, that means that we all have
to kind of, you know, be open to making changes, um,
both on stage and off. So we really work closely
with the companies we work with, our, uh, ushers, our
visitor experience team, and we make sure that we provide
(08:03):
all the right information through the point of purchase and
along the way. So we do visual stories as well.
And those visual stories really are a key tool in
providing access, because, you know, we want people to know
what to expect. And if there are going to be
moments that are a little bit more loud or have
(08:23):
uncomfortable lighting, we want people to know that they can
step out and still be able to follow the story.
S1 (08:28):
Mm, fantastic. Um, does that mean that, uh, relaxed areas
or chill out spaces, those kind of areas, you know,
that we're not just saying to an audience member, you
can leave if you want to at certain points. We
actually make the leaving a pleasurable experience rather than a
(08:51):
bit of an ostracization.
S2 (08:52):
Totally. Well, the doors are left open throughout the whole performance,
so you can always see a clear exit and you're
not going to make a fuss because it's already been given.
You've already been given permission to get up and leave,
and oftentimes there are fewer seats on sale. So that
means that people are more spread out, and you're not
going to step on as many toes as you're going
out of the in and out of the audience. And
(09:15):
then we try and create a safe and comfortable space,
either in the foyer, particularly for children. They love to
have a foyer space close by to run around or
for older audiences, a more private location, um, with soft lighting,
comfortable seating and beanbags. I'm. I've become quite an expert
in beanbags, actually.
S1 (09:39):
Have you become an expert in beanbags, or do you
just travel, shop to shop and sort of plonk down
in them?
S2 (09:44):
There are some that are vinyl. There are some.
S1 (09:47):
That don't like the.
S2 (09:48):
Softer material. Yeah, some of the beans make more of
a noise than others. You want a soft experience, and
you want to be able to get out of the beanbag.
S1 (09:59):
Without that terrible sort of tearing sound as you detach
from the vinyl.
S2 (10:03):
That's right, that's right. And I love a good weighted animal,
you know. Um, we've got some very friendly platypuses that
kind of comfort when they're sitting on your lap. They're
very nice, soothing, um, feeling and very soft. And we
also provide a lot of ear muffs, just in case any,
(10:24):
you know, if we have made any changes to volume.
But that still isn't at a good level for some people.
They can make their own individual changes. And so we're
trying to really empower people to feel comfortable to be
themselves at the theater and bring their own tools and
know that they're welcome to do what they need to
make adjustments. We are providing an entry point, but we
(10:47):
aren't saying that this is what it's always going to
be like. And I always think about being flexible and going,
this is what a relaxed performance is like for this show, um,
according to our principles, but it's not always going to
be the same every single time.
S1 (11:02):
I'm always fascinated by things like the introduction of relaxed
performances and I guess before that Auslan interpretation and audio description. Yeah. Um,
that they slowly seem to be moving towards just becoming
an accepted, expected part of the season rather than a
(11:27):
kind of special little add on that. You know, we
may kind of go, oh, I haven't seen that before.
You know, I often think at some point in history,
theatre became very serious about safety on stage. For instance,
you wouldn't dream of doing a show with fire, without
a fire attendant, you wouldn't dream of doing a show
(11:48):
that had a gun in it. Without an armourer involved,
you wouldn't dream of doing a show that had a
fight without a fight choreographer. Those things are just expected.
And I often wonder how far away from are we
from a time when you felt the same about Auslan
(12:09):
interpreters and audio describers and intimacy coordinators and relaxed performances
that we just go, we don't we don't find them
special or, you know, an extra thing. We just expect
them to be there. And so we're looking for, you know,
we're in the season are those things.
S2 (12:27):
Yeah. I mean I'm certainly expecting it more and more.
And I think a lot of people in the community
are and, you know, back in the day. The disability
community was not expected to be out and about in
public places. And now that there has been progress where
we are able to have, you know, wider doors and
(12:52):
Auslan interpreters available and people have developed the skills and
knowledge in this. There is that expectation. I think there
should be. We should always be striving to do better
when it comes to both safety for actors and safety
for audiences, and I think it's also an opportunity for
(13:12):
us to, you know, practice what we preach. You know,
in the arts, we think of ourselves as being very
progressive and inclusive. But we're 20% of the audience might
not feel welcome. I think we've got much more to
do now.
S1 (13:28):
We're kidding around before about the triple barreled nature of
your title. Yeah, but you're used to being kind of multifaceted.
If I look at your biog, I see the words director,
I see the dramaturg, I see producer, I see facilitator,
I see workshop person. Yeah. Um, that's a lot. Can
(13:50):
you just not make up your mind or.
S2 (13:52):
Well, I think in the arts you learn to have
a portfolio career and develop as many skills as you can.
I've got colleagues who are musicians, teachers, um, they are
also MC and they're downstairs putting together a bunch of
contracts as we speak. You know, so you have to
(14:13):
develop skills in a lot of different areas. Become a
jack of all trades, master of none. But I hope
I'm mastering some of these.
S1 (14:21):
And.
S2 (14:22):
I hope I'm mastering some of these skills. You know,
I think I'm always curious and always trying to learn more. Um,
but I think certainly in my training I learned how
to be really collaborative. And I think that's what one
of the most useful things in my role now is
getting to collaborate and work across a diverse range of
(14:45):
projects and teams with lots of different goals and competing priorities,
different stakeholders, and try my best to find solutions and, um,
you know, have wonderful relationships with people.
S1 (15:00):
Um, the other thing that jumped out at me is
that as many times as Melbourne and Victoria are mentioned,
so Brisbane and Queensland, not just for the work that
you do, but your training has happened in both places
and mentorships and you know the projects that you undertake.
S2 (15:18):
I'm definitely a stereotype of one of those Brisbane, um,
born and bred artists who have, um, flown the coop
and gone to colder climates. But I've gone back as
well and then flown back. Um, and I've definitely been
influenced and inspired by artists and the training that I've
(15:40):
experienced both at CU and VCA and, um, I think
that's what one of the pleasures of life is like
these days, isn't it?
S1 (15:50):
Yeah.
S2 (15:51):
More and more influences from everywhere. Yeah.
S1 (15:54):
Now, the kind of work you do here at the
Art center, um, was, was a passion for access and
inclusivity always a feature of your work or has it
developed along the way?
S2 (16:11):
I think that's a great question. Um, you know, I
identify as disabled myself, and I think that's kind of
my understanding of my own experience has grown over the
years and been influenced by the work that I do.
When I was younger, I worked for Backbone Youth Arts
back in Brisbane, who are an amazing company doing, um,
(16:36):
you know, really cutting edge work. And, um, I was
working with a group called the Light Ensemble, which was
a group of performers with and without disability and, you know,
developing their skills and devising new work together because, you know,
certainly at the time we found that there were a
lot of opportunities to be creative. When you were at school,
(16:58):
when you were a young person with disability. But once
you left school, there were there weren't as many opportunities.
So we were trying to provide those avenues. And, um,
I was also doing work in the independent theatre scene.
I was doing some work, um, you know, as a
primary school residency once, and I was, you know, got
(17:21):
a met, a crossroads. It was like I either go
and study teaching, I go and study law, or I
really commit to this. And I ended up committing and
flying down to study directing at VCA, um, which was amazing.
And I got to be, um, really thrown into the
(17:43):
deep end with, um, the program at VCA and getting
to work with, um, living legends like Michael Kantor and
Alison Campbell and, um, getting to do an internship at
Melbourne Theatre Company and with Rawkus. Um, so those were
really pivotal moments. But, you know, when I get to
(18:06):
do my internship with Rawkus, I go back and go,
oh my gosh, this work in the disability space is
really where my heart sings. And that's where I feel
authentic as well as a person. Um, so I started
doing residencies with Arts Access Victoria and Dada and um,
(18:26):
I spoke at an event called Meeting Place through the
old organization, Arts Access Australia. Um, so that's where I
really was able to come into my own and understand
who I was as a disabled artist and get a
sense of that disability pride. Um, then of course, Covid
happened and I kind of lost some of the passion for,
(18:49):
you know, creating work myself. You know, having, you know,
done works in progress at la mama and Frankston and,
you know, all these other works. I kind of shifted
away from wanting to create that work myself, but I
then became more focused on facilitating the artistry of other
people and really wanting to trying to, um, lift up
(19:13):
deaf and disabled artists and what we are capable of.
So that's why the opportunity at Arts Centre Melbourne came
along at the right time. Um, and I got to
develop skills in, you know, the venue management software and
procurement processes that are required at a government cultural institution,
(19:34):
which are really important.
S1 (19:36):
Well, if you don't have those things in place, they're
not going to do it, are they?
S3 (19:40):
No. And, you know.
S2 (19:42):
There's a lot there's many hands involved when to create
something on stage at a big place like this. Um,
and so that's been a great it's been a great
training ground and a great opportunity for me to share
what I know, um, from community, um, and help to
work with others to create a more inclusive space.
S3 (20:04):
Um.
S1 (20:04):
You said the internship at raucous, lovely. Raucous. Um, didn't
you end up on the board?
S3 (20:11):
Yeah, I know, I got a phone.
S1 (20:13):
Just let that little bit slide through.
S2 (20:16):
I am on the board at raucous. I've been on
the board at raucous for just over a year now.
I got a phone call and, you know, asked if
I was interested. And and they're an amazing company doing
some really, um, experimental, fun moving, um, really cool stuff.
(20:36):
I don't know, they did a show at Melbourne Fringe
called The Tattoo Show, and that was, oh my God,
it was Is more, you know, when you see a
show that's you know all about someone's getting tattooed live
on stage, you don't think it's going to be so, um,
soft and moving as that kind of edgy nature. But
(20:58):
it was it was a really lovely.
S1 (21:00):
If anyone's going to achieve that, it'll be raucous.
S2 (21:03):
That's right. And I think, um, that, you know, they're
doing some amazing stuff in, um, supporting artists with disability
to develop and lead the way.
S1 (21:14):
Mm. Um, so we've talked around it a lot. Let's
talk specifics. What's coming up? What relaxed performances can we
look forward to at Arts Centre Melbourne?
S2 (21:25):
Oh, well, I'm really looking forward to the summer because
it's going to be a really relaxed summer. And that'll
be starting with a Symphonic Christmas presented by Melbourne Symphony Orchestra.
Melbourne Symphony Orchestra have been doing these amazing series called
classic kids and every, you know, every few months there's
(21:46):
a concert for families with young people. And they also
include a relaxed performance. And it's so much fun. You've
got kids counting the aisles of Hamer Hall, going in
and out using the beanbags, and it's such a friendly,
warm atmosphere. So I'm really looking forward to the Christmas
carols with MSO at Hamer Hall in December.
S1 (22:09):
And then you've got patch coming over from Adelaide.
S3 (22:11):
Oh my God, it's going to be amazing.
S2 (22:13):
And I just love Patch Theatre. This is such a
beautiful show, you know, and I'm really glad that they
are open to doing a relaxed version. It is actually
quite a relaxed, gentle show. But there are, you know,
they are also doing really cool work with lights in
this show. So I kind of see this as a
relaxed performance for sensory seekers.
S1 (22:35):
Are so nicely put.
S3 (22:36):
Yeah, so we'll.
S2 (22:37):
Be providing the tools to make sure people feel more comfortable.
We'll have some sunglasses will have earmuffs and of course
the doors open so people can take a break if
they need. But it's going to be a really, really
fun outing, I think.
S1 (22:51):
And then a bit of Mahler and Tchaikovsky.
S2 (22:53):
Yes, we're going from the family fun times in the
summer to some really brooding orchestral music. And Melbourne Symphony
Orchestra have been going from that classic kids world to
making sure that neurodivergent audiences of all ages feel comfortable
at the theatre. Well, at a concert, I should say. Um,
(23:16):
and so that'll be in April with some beautiful Mahler
and Tchaikovsky. And I'm, I'm really excited, you know, having
a full length concert in a more casual way. You
don't have to be all formal about it. Um, but
they're going to make it more comfortable for people.
S1 (23:33):
And when in the year do we think we might
see Alter State again?
S3 (23:37):
Oh.
S2 (23:38):
Watch this.
S3 (23:38):
Space. Watch this space.
S2 (23:40):
You know, we've been working really closely with the foundation partner,
Arts Access Victoria on Alter State over the past few years,
and the plans are in progress. So I want to
be able to share some news, but I can't just.
S1 (23:54):
Well, it's news enough to know that.
S3 (23:56):
It's not.
S1 (23:57):
Going to just be a one off.
S3 (23:58):
No. It's coming.
S2 (23:59):
We we did it in online in 2021. We did
four weeks in 2022. Last year in October 2024, we
did two weeks. And we've got a program coming up
in late 2026.
S1 (24:14):
Well, I'm sure we'll be talking about all those things,
but especially Alter State later in 2026.
S2 (24:19):
And we're really committed to it.
S1 (24:20):
Maybe we'll get you back on the show to talk
about it.
S2 (24:23):
Oh, that'd be fun.
S1 (24:24):
Um, but for now, Ana. Mona, congratulations for all this
amazing work that's happening both here at Arts Centre Melbourne
and of course, at raucous as well. Thanks so much
for being on the show.
S2 (24:37):
Thanks, Chris. It's been lovely joining you.
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