April 6, 2025 • 11 mins
Peter Greco chats with Kelly Schulz Founder and Director of Knowable Me, who is running a research project in regards to election accessibility for people with disabilities. You may be able to earn a small fee for your participation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:05):
If you hadn't heard, there's an election happening. Uh, let's
find out what, uh, Kelly Schultz from me is doing.
And maybe wanting your support as well. Kelly, great to
catch up. Thanks for your time.
S2 (00:14):
Thanks for having me. Peter.
S1 (00:15):
No, you're not running for Parliament, are you?
S2 (00:17):
Oh, no.
S1 (00:18):
No, not at this time.
S2 (00:19):
No.
S1 (00:19):
Not now. You've got a really cool thing underway about this. Obviously,
it's very, very timely and really, really important. I mean,
some of us are more passionate about this sort of
thing than others, but this is really great.
S2 (00:32):
Yeah, well, it is pretty timely. Obviously, an election has
been called, and we're just going to run a national
survey to understand how accessible voting really is for people
with disability. It's not going to be about politics at all.
It's just about whether the process works and what gets
in the way.
S1 (00:47):
And one of the great things about this, it's not
necessarily voting on the day that you're talking about, although
that's part of it, but it is accessing information before it.
S2 (00:55):
That's right. I think there's so many things involved in
making an informed decision, and I'm sure I'm not sure
about you, but I've never heard quite this much talk
about disability as a political issue before, so it's incredibly
important that everyone with a disability both has the opportunity
to participate independently, but also has the opportunity to understand
(01:16):
what everyone's thoughts are and what their policies are and
what their positions are on this. And that sort of
information can be really hard to come by in accessible formats,
or just in a way that's understandable.
S1 (01:29):
It's almost an oxymoron sometimes something like that, isn't it?
Information about disability that's not accessible or that is inaccessible.
S2 (01:37):
I know Vision Australia does a lot of work on this. Yeah.
So absolutely acknowledge that vision Australia has done a lot
of work from advocating for accessible voting things, producing the
materials in formats that people can actually use. And I
just think our research is going to build on that
foundation and add to the case for for more progress. Obviously,
we're not necessarily going to have an impact on this
(01:58):
particular election, but while it's on people's minds and while
they're looking at, you know, what they are going to
do and how they're going to exercise their vote, I
think it's a really great time to talk about it.
S1 (02:07):
That was one thing I was going to put to you,
is the fact that this obviously probably won't make a
lot of difference this time around, because it is kind of,
if you like, a slow burn, but but nevertheless, if
you don't start something, it's never going to get to
the point where you want it to finish.
S2 (02:19):
Exactly. It's it's probably not going to make a difference.
But I think there's also something about raising awareness for
for everybody who participates. How do we how do we
get these stats out there and what's happening for people
to the general public so that they know what it's like,
and it just adds weight to that ongoing advocacy for
better systems, because I'm sure every other state's going to
be due for an election sometime in the not too
(02:42):
distant future.
S1 (02:42):
To know a great point. Well, we've got in South
Australia's got ours in the next, oh, 11 months as
it is now. I think Victoria is next year as well.
So that is very, very timely. And I guess like
the other thing that you do with noble me is
like you put the information out there for organizations, governments, etc. to,
if you like, peruse. So it's the sort of stuff
(03:03):
that they've got access to information that they might not
otherwise have.
S2 (03:06):
Yeah, that's one of the philosophies. So particularly when we
do these research for ourselves. So this is one that
we're funding for ourselves. This is a piece of research
we're doing because we want to add to the annals
of information. And so we'll share these results publicly with
the community. Uh, it'll feed into the broader conversations and
we'll even, you know, maybe get an audience with the
Electoral Commission and have a bit of a crack with them, too.
S1 (03:27):
Well, that is a great idea. And, of course, you know,
I mean, because because I speak to them pretty much every, uh,
election time. And they do say they want to hear
what people think. So, you know, this is kind of
putting them to the test. Alright. So what are you
looking for us to do? As, uh, as as I
was going to say as plebs, as voters or maybe
as voters in the future, because it's not just people
(03:49):
that have voted, is it?
S2 (03:50):
No, it can be people who for this is their
first time as well, because there's quite a few of
those as well.
S1 (03:56):
Of course.
S2 (03:56):
We're looking for people with disability or access needs who
plan to vote in this coming federal election. So in
just a few weeks time, there's a survey. There's an
open survey or at me. And then there's an opportunity
to participate. Then once we've once we've gone through those
in a $15 paid survey, which can either be BI
(04:18):
or online, we can do all different formats, whatever works
for people.
S1 (04:22):
Fantastic. And can you give us a bit of an
idea of what. Well, both the survey and then the
phone survey, what that kind of involves or what that includes?
S2 (04:31):
Yeah, the initial survey is generally just some yes no questions.
Do you intend to vote? Have you got any stories
to tell us about things? Um, how do you usually vote? So,
you know, some people always want to post or vote.
Some people want to do it on the day and
go for their democracy. Sausage. I'm quite a fan of
a democracy sausage. So people vote in different ways and
have different views on it, but also how they get information.
(04:53):
So how do you figure out who you're going to
vote for and those sorts of things. And any experiences
that you can talk to if you've had those experiences.
And then the more detailed survey, the paid survey after
that will be a little bit more in depth about
what you need and how you need it, and what
your preferences are for. Getting information and using information and
(05:13):
being communicated with. About the things that are important to you.
S1 (05:16):
It's a great thing you mentioned about getting information, because
I must admit, I'm very limited as far as sort
of interest or ability in the social media area. However,
I do know that there's been such an emphasis at
the political parties are putting a lot of, uh, their
energies into social media. You know, the TikTok, the YouTube, the,
the podcasts, etc.. So I guess, you know, we've got
(05:40):
a kind of take notice of that, if that's what
they're doing, then there's a lot of people that have
got that interest. But by the same token, if we, um,
don't know about it, then we're not going to know,
you know, what they're offering or what sort of things
they're out there for us to consume.
S2 (05:53):
Absolutely. And I funnily enough, I only looked it up yesterday.
You can actually publicly available you can go and look
at the advertising reports on advertising on social media, particularly
for meta, which is Facebook and Instagram, and see who
is spending the most money? Uh, and last week, in,
you know, real terms, uh, the Australian Liberal Party spent
(06:14):
the most on meta for political and economic advising. So, yeah,
you can actually say how much they're spending and what
the ads are, uh, and that they're approved. So there
is actually a lot of reporting available to people on that.
S1 (06:26):
Well, I guess the say if they're using it, then
you've got to at least know about it. So to
kind of know what sort of areas to be looking
in and I guess also what sort of, um, information
people are consuming from it. What about the kind of
old fashioned way? Uh, you know, if you like websites
and I mean, you know, obviously, uh, the letterbox drops,
I mean, that's probably not very accessible for some people, though.
(06:47):
There's much more equipment now that you can kind of
read your own mail independently.
S2 (06:51):
Yeah. There is. I remember there was a federal election. Well,
I don't think it was the last one. It might
have been the one before that where I got 17
from this bloke. 17 bits of it.
S1 (07:00):
Because they know who you are.
S2 (07:03):
Uh, crazy amounts of mail. Um. And that person didn't
win in the end, which is also amusing to me. Um,
but yes, there's got to be other there's other ways.
And I mean, for a lot of people, it's even
just knowing who your local member is. Of course, obviously
you're not voting for the Prime Minister unless you're in
that seat. You're not voting for our prime minister or
sometimes even cabinet ministers. So, uh, you don't know necessarily
(07:28):
who these people are in your local area and in
your electorate and what they stand for. So even finding
out that information can be a good place to start.
S1 (07:37):
Yeah, that is such a great point, isn't it? Because invariably,
say who you're voting for, Dutton or Elbow? And of
course it isn't that not not particularly in your own electorate.
And of course, then there's the, I guess, the extra complexity,
if you want to call it that, of the Senate
and the system in the upper house as well.
S2 (07:54):
Absolutely. And I've, I don't know if you've done this.
I do it for fun, Peter, but you go out
on Election Day and walk into a polling place and
ask all of those people handing out how to vote
cards if they have one in Braille.
S1 (08:05):
I must do that. No, I've never done that well
the last few elections, I've kind of, uh, used the
telephone voting. Although I must admit, I have gone.
S2 (08:13):
Doesn't mean I go out and enjoy it.
S1 (08:15):
Oh.
S2 (08:15):
That's true.
S1 (08:16):
Well, no. Well, I was going to say I have
gone out just to kind of soak up the atmosphere
because there is something special about, uh, those sort of days.
So I, I might do that and I might report
back with the answers that I get.
S2 (08:28):
Oh, the sausage as well, right.
S1 (08:30):
Yeah. Well, hopefully the answer is there. Broadcastable. Kelly, what
about timeliness as far as your, uh, sort of survey
and your, uh, call out for people to, uh, give
you some information? Guys, how's that took place?
S2 (08:43):
Oh, yeah. Get on to us as soon as you can.
The initial survey is going to close on the 14th
of April, so that we can at least get some
stats out into the world before the election and the
the survey. The paid survey will close probably a week
after that. But, yeah, if you can get your initial
initial votes in before that, that'd be great.
S1 (09:01):
Yeah. So it's kind of a voting before we vote,
isn't it?
S2 (09:04):
Yeah.
S1 (09:05):
I um, and in terms of, um, the accessibility of
the surveys. You talked about maybe doing a via phone,
but if people do choose to do it online, you've
checked it out. I know you have, Kelly, but I'm
just asking. Just asking for a friend. I'm asking for
a friend. Have you checked it out?
S2 (09:20):
He takes feedback on that too, Peter.
S1 (09:21):
So, okay.
S2 (09:23):
Some situations where a couple of people have mentioned a
couple of things to us. Um, so, uh, yeah, always
taking feedback on that. So it's online at knowable and
that's knowable k n o w a b l e
dot e. Uh. You can also email us if you
need some support, which is research at knowable. And you
can ring one of the team as well and have
(09:43):
a chat which is 04351855, double seven.
S1 (09:49):
Terrific. Kelly. Obviously for those of us that are a
little bit nerdish in this area, we're uh, looking forward
to it and very appreciative of it. And like I
always say at election time, you know, if you've got
an accessible voting option, please think really hard about taking
it up, because if we don't do it, then the
Electoral Commission will say, oh look, yeah, these people aren't
really interested. Why should we bother? Or why should we
(10:09):
spend money on it? So, you know, my impassioned pleas
that people take it up and also contact you to
do your survey because you say there is a little
financial incentive, particularly for the the longer survey that goes
on after the initial contact.
S2 (10:23):
Yeah, it is. And I think this is a great opportunity.
Like I said, the political landscape has never mentioned disability
more than now that I've that I've experienced. And we
need to exercise those rights. So if you can use
one of those systems do. Let's let's prove it. Let's
vote with our feet and get out there and do it.
S1 (10:42):
Terrific, Kelly. Great to catch up. Uh, I'd like to
get back to you at the end of this and say, hey,
what sort of response you get? And then perhaps, uh,
after the election, you know, what your sort of thoughts
are in terms of where you go to with this
kind of project as well?
S2 (10:54):
Yeah, that'd be great. I'd love to share this one back.
I think it's a it's a really important issue.
S1 (10:57):
Kerry Schultz what a what a what an Energizer bunny.
Certainly as far as accessibility and access to information goes,
one of the very best. Always great to have her
on the program. We'll put those details up in our
show notes as well.
If you hadn't heard, there's an election happening. Uh, let's
find out what, uh, Kelly Schultz from me is doing.
And maybe wanting your support as well. Kelly, great to
catch up. Thanks for your time.
S2 (00:14):
Thanks for having me. Peter.
S1 (00:15):
No, you're not running for Parliament, are you?
S2 (00:17):
Oh, no.
S1 (00:18):
No, not at this time.
S2 (00:19):
No.
S1 (00:19):
Not now. You've got a really cool thing underway about this. Obviously,
it's very, very timely and really, really important. I mean,
some of us are more passionate about this sort of
thing than others, but this is really great.
S2 (00:32):
Yeah, well, it is pretty timely. Obviously, an election has
been called, and we're just going to run a national
survey to understand how accessible voting really is for people
with disability. It's not going to be about politics at all.
It's just about whether the process works and what gets
in the way.
S1 (00:47):
And one of the great things about this, it's not
necessarily voting on the day that you're talking about, although
that's part of it, but it is accessing information before it.
S2 (00:55):
That's right. I think there's so many things involved in
making an informed decision, and I'm sure I'm not sure
about you, but I've never heard quite this much talk
about disability as a political issue before, so it's incredibly
important that everyone with a disability both has the opportunity
to participate independently, but also has the opportunity to understand
(01:16):
what everyone's thoughts are and what their policies are and
what their positions are on this. And that sort of
information can be really hard to come by in accessible formats,
or just in a way that's understandable.
S1 (01:29):
It's almost an oxymoron sometimes something like that, isn't it?
Information about disability that's not accessible or that is inaccessible.
S2 (01:37):
I know Vision Australia does a lot of work on this. Yeah.
So absolutely acknowledge that vision Australia has done a lot
of work from advocating for accessible voting things, producing the
materials in formats that people can actually use. And I
just think our research is going to build on that
foundation and add to the case for for more progress. Obviously,
we're not necessarily going to have an impact on this
(01:58):
particular election, but while it's on people's minds and while
they're looking at, you know, what they are going to
do and how they're going to exercise their vote, I
think it's a really great time to talk about it.
S1 (02:07):
That was one thing I was going to put to you,
is the fact that this obviously probably won't make a
lot of difference this time around, because it is kind of,
if you like, a slow burn, but but nevertheless, if
you don't start something, it's never going to get to
the point where you want it to finish.
S2 (02:19):
Exactly. It's it's probably not going to make a difference.
But I think there's also something about raising awareness for
for everybody who participates. How do we how do we
get these stats out there and what's happening for people
to the general public so that they know what it's like,
and it just adds weight to that ongoing advocacy for
better systems, because I'm sure every other state's going to
be due for an election sometime in the not too
(02:42):
distant future.
S1 (02:42):
To know a great point. Well, we've got in South
Australia's got ours in the next, oh, 11 months as
it is now. I think Victoria is next year as well.
So that is very, very timely. And I guess like
the other thing that you do with noble me is
like you put the information out there for organizations, governments, etc. to,
if you like, peruse. So it's the sort of stuff
(03:03):
that they've got access to information that they might not
otherwise have.
S2 (03:06):
Yeah, that's one of the philosophies. So particularly when we
do these research for ourselves. So this is one that
we're funding for ourselves. This is a piece of research
we're doing because we want to add to the annals
of information. And so we'll share these results publicly with
the community. Uh, it'll feed into the broader conversations and
we'll even, you know, maybe get an audience with the
Electoral Commission and have a bit of a crack with them, too.
S1 (03:27):
Well, that is a great idea. And, of course, you know,
I mean, because because I speak to them pretty much every, uh,
election time. And they do say they want to hear
what people think. So, you know, this is kind of
putting them to the test. Alright. So what are you
looking for us to do? As, uh, as as I
was going to say as plebs, as voters or maybe
as voters in the future, because it's not just people
(03:49):
that have voted, is it?
S2 (03:50):
No, it can be people who for this is their
first time as well, because there's quite a few of
those as well.
S1 (03:56):
Of course.
S2 (03:56):
We're looking for people with disability or access needs who
plan to vote in this coming federal election. So in
just a few weeks time, there's a survey. There's an
open survey or at me. And then there's an opportunity
to participate. Then once we've once we've gone through those
in a $15 paid survey, which can either be BI
(04:18):
or online, we can do all different formats, whatever works
for people.
S1 (04:22):
Fantastic. And can you give us a bit of an
idea of what. Well, both the survey and then the
phone survey, what that kind of involves or what that includes?
S2 (04:31):
Yeah, the initial survey is generally just some yes no questions.
Do you intend to vote? Have you got any stories
to tell us about things? Um, how do you usually vote? So,
you know, some people always want to post or vote.
Some people want to do it on the day and
go for their democracy. Sausage. I'm quite a fan of
a democracy sausage. So people vote in different ways and
have different views on it, but also how they get information.
(04:53):
So how do you figure out who you're going to
vote for and those sorts of things. And any experiences
that you can talk to if you've had those experiences.
And then the more detailed survey, the paid survey after
that will be a little bit more in depth about
what you need and how you need it, and what
your preferences are for. Getting information and using information and
(05:13):
being communicated with. About the things that are important to you.
S1 (05:16):
It's a great thing you mentioned about getting information, because
I must admit, I'm very limited as far as sort
of interest or ability in the social media area. However,
I do know that there's been such an emphasis at
the political parties are putting a lot of, uh, their
energies into social media. You know, the TikTok, the YouTube, the,
the podcasts, etc.. So I guess, you know, we've got
(05:40):
a kind of take notice of that, if that's what
they're doing, then there's a lot of people that have
got that interest. But by the same token, if we, um,
don't know about it, then we're not going to know,
you know, what they're offering or what sort of things
they're out there for us to consume.
S2 (05:53):
Absolutely. And I funnily enough, I only looked it up yesterday.
You can actually publicly available you can go and look
at the advertising reports on advertising on social media, particularly
for meta, which is Facebook and Instagram, and see who
is spending the most money? Uh, and last week, in,
you know, real terms, uh, the Australian Liberal Party spent
(06:14):
the most on meta for political and economic advising. So, yeah,
you can actually say how much they're spending and what
the ads are, uh, and that they're approved. So there
is actually a lot of reporting available to people on that.
S1 (06:26):
Well, I guess the say if they're using it, then
you've got to at least know about it. So to
kind of know what sort of areas to be looking
in and I guess also what sort of, um, information
people are consuming from it. What about the kind of
old fashioned way? Uh, you know, if you like websites
and I mean, you know, obviously, uh, the letterbox drops,
I mean, that's probably not very accessible for some people, though.
(06:47):
There's much more equipment now that you can kind of
read your own mail independently.
S2 (06:51):
Yeah. There is. I remember there was a federal election. Well,
I don't think it was the last one. It might
have been the one before that where I got 17
from this bloke. 17 bits of it.
S1 (07:00):
Because they know who you are.
S2 (07:03):
Uh, crazy amounts of mail. Um. And that person didn't
win in the end, which is also amusing to me. Um,
but yes, there's got to be other there's other ways.
And I mean, for a lot of people, it's even
just knowing who your local member is. Of course, obviously
you're not voting for the Prime Minister unless you're in
that seat. You're not voting for our prime minister or
sometimes even cabinet ministers. So, uh, you don't know necessarily
(07:28):
who these people are in your local area and in
your electorate and what they stand for. So even finding
out that information can be a good place to start.
S1 (07:37):
Yeah, that is such a great point, isn't it? Because invariably,
say who you're voting for, Dutton or Elbow? And of
course it isn't that not not particularly in your own electorate.
And of course, then there's the, I guess, the extra complexity,
if you want to call it that, of the Senate
and the system in the upper house as well.
S2 (07:54):
Absolutely. And I've, I don't know if you've done this.
I do it for fun, Peter, but you go out
on Election Day and walk into a polling place and
ask all of those people handing out how to vote
cards if they have one in Braille.
S1 (08:05):
I must do that. No, I've never done that well
the last few elections, I've kind of, uh, used the
telephone voting. Although I must admit, I have gone.
S2 (08:13):
Doesn't mean I go out and enjoy it.
S1 (08:15):
Oh.
S2 (08:15):
That's true.
S1 (08:16):
Well, no. Well, I was going to say I have
gone out just to kind of soak up the atmosphere
because there is something special about, uh, those sort of days.
So I, I might do that and I might report
back with the answers that I get.
S2 (08:28):
Oh, the sausage as well, right.
S1 (08:30):
Yeah. Well, hopefully the answer is there. Broadcastable. Kelly, what
about timeliness as far as your, uh, sort of survey
and your, uh, call out for people to, uh, give
you some information? Guys, how's that took place?
S2 (08:43):
Oh, yeah. Get on to us as soon as you can.
The initial survey is going to close on the 14th
of April, so that we can at least get some
stats out into the world before the election and the
the survey. The paid survey will close probably a week
after that. But, yeah, if you can get your initial
initial votes in before that, that'd be great.
S1 (09:01):
Yeah. So it's kind of a voting before we vote,
isn't it?
S2 (09:04):
Yeah.
S1 (09:05):
I um, and in terms of, um, the accessibility of
the surveys. You talked about maybe doing a via phone,
but if people do choose to do it online, you've
checked it out. I know you have, Kelly, but I'm
just asking. Just asking for a friend. I'm asking for
a friend. Have you checked it out?
S2 (09:20):
He takes feedback on that too, Peter.
S1 (09:21):
So, okay.
S2 (09:23):
Some situations where a couple of people have mentioned a
couple of things to us. Um, so, uh, yeah, always
taking feedback on that. So it's online at knowable and
that's knowable k n o w a b l e
dot e. Uh. You can also email us if you
need some support, which is research at knowable. And you
can ring one of the team as well and have
(09:43):
a chat which is 04351855, double seven.
S1 (09:49):
Terrific. Kelly. Obviously for those of us that are a
little bit nerdish in this area, we're uh, looking forward
to it and very appreciative of it. And like I
always say at election time, you know, if you've got
an accessible voting option, please think really hard about taking
it up, because if we don't do it, then the
Electoral Commission will say, oh look, yeah, these people aren't
really interested. Why should we bother? Or why should we
(10:09):
spend money on it? So, you know, my impassioned pleas
that people take it up and also contact you to
do your survey because you say there is a little
financial incentive, particularly for the the longer survey that goes
on after the initial contact.
S2 (10:23):
Yeah, it is. And I think this is a great opportunity.
Like I said, the political landscape has never mentioned disability
more than now that I've that I've experienced. And we
need to exercise those rights. So if you can use
one of those systems do. Let's let's prove it. Let's
vote with our feet and get out there and do it.
S1 (10:42):
Terrific, Kelly. Great to catch up. Uh, I'd like to
get back to you at the end of this and say, hey,
what sort of response you get? And then perhaps, uh,
after the election, you know, what your sort of thoughts
are in terms of where you go to with this
kind of project as well?
S2 (10:54):
Yeah, that'd be great. I'd love to share this one back.
I think it's a it's a really important issue.
S1 (10:57):
Kerry Schultz what a what a what an Energizer bunny.
Certainly as far as accessibility and access to information goes,
one of the very best. Always great to have her
on the program. We'll put those details up in our
show notes as well.
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In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.