September 8, 2025 • 7 mins
Peter Greco hears from Kelly Schulz founder from Knowable me, about a couple of big "little" wins for making Microsoft's Authenticator app more accessible for users of voiceover, and also an opportunity for some payment doing a survey about applying for employment.
More info: Authenticator Apps video
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:13):
Oh, it's great catching up with Kelly Schultz from Nobull me,
and particularly when there's little success stories to talk about. Kelly,
great to catch up.
S2 (00:20):
Always a pleasure to chat to you, Peter.
S1 (00:21):
You've got some good news regarding a couple of rather
large organizations that people may have heard of.
S2 (00:26):
They probably have. You never know, and I'm not quite
sure whether I get to take credit or not, but
I'm going to.
S1 (00:32):
Yeah. No, I'll give it to you anyway. So it's two,
two from two here. What's happened?
S2 (00:36):
Well, way back in April. I don't know whether you
remember April this year. It was a while ago now.
We did some research on multi-factor authentication. And that's where
we talk to people about different ways that you have
to authenticate passwords and apps and those codes that they
send you on your phone. And one person during those interviews,
(00:56):
one person said to us, it'd be really great if
I could tell the difference between the authenticator apps using
voice over on my phone, so the screen reader on
my phone, because both of them were called authenticator authenticator,
an authenticator, and you can't tell the difference. And those
authenticator apps are made by Google and Microsoft, okay.
S1 (01:18):
Which makes it very difficult because that obviously be very
popular or in big use anyway.
S2 (01:22):
Definitely in big use and definitely not just one as well.
So you'll find if you're someone who needs to have that,
particularly for work purposes, there's a good chance that you'll
have to have both. And even going into the apps,
even if you go into them, they don't actually announce
what they are, whether it's Google or Microsoft, when you
go into them with VoiceOver either. So they're actually genuinely
was no way to tell until you got in there
(01:43):
and had to figure out what the navigation was once
you were there. So what did we do? Well, I
firmly believe in the power of one, as I call it,
and that's that one person's experience is probably evidence of
a lot of people's experience. So we took that piece
of feedback and I thought, well, I think that's a
should be something that's really easy to fix. But bear
in mind, Peter, I think everything should be easy to fix. So,
(02:07):
you know, it sounds like an easy fix to me.
It's one it's one extra word that we need in
those apps so that they announce which one they are.
And I didn't really know what to do, so I
made a video about it. A video for social media.
Because let's face it, everyone wants to be trending, and
that seems to be the place where lots of people
can find something and get things fixed. I personally don't
(02:28):
know anyone at Microsoft or Google, so that seemed like
the best way to go. So I posted that on
the socials, in particular LinkedIn. And then I waited and
I waited, and I waited some more and I continued
to wait. And then one day, just a little bit ago,
I saw an update come through for one of those
apps and you'll never guess what, it has been fixed.
So Microsoft Authenticator app now with VoiceOver only it's not
(02:51):
like the label has changed or anything has visually changed,
but the voiceover label now calls it Microsoft Authenticator.
S1 (02:59):
I was going to ask about visually. So visually people
could see which is which.
S2 (03:02):
Visually they have an icon, so they have the icon
for the app. So visually people could see which is which,
even though the label underneath both apps was just the
word authenticator, and that's the word it was using for
for VoiceOver.
S1 (03:14):
Fantastic. So what do you think happened? So someone saw
your wonderful video and who might that have been and
what did they do about it? Or how did they
go about kind of fixing it?
S2 (03:24):
Well, I think honestly, when you work in these types
of organizations and I've done that, I've had my my time,
you actually genuinely do want to fix things for people
and make things good experiences, but you don't know what
you don't know. Thankfully, quite a few people were tagged
from my network in LinkedIn are okay. So a few
people said, you know, oh, this should be an easy fix.
This is how I'd do it. Or tagged someone from
(03:45):
Google or tag someone from Microsoft. So I genuinely don't know.
Like I said, I don't know whether I can take
credit or not, but the fact.
S1 (03:51):
That you going fixed, I'm.
S2 (03:53):
Going to take the win.
S1 (03:55):
Yeah. Because I mean, the interesting thing is that I'm
assuming they still do. Those organizations did have an accessibility unit,
if I can call them that. I think Elon got
rid of Twitter's pretty quickly, but the others still do have.
And they've got people who are blind or have low
vision working for them.
S2 (04:09):
Absolutely they do. And maybe it's that they only work
exclusively with their own stuff. So unless you're having the
experience of having to use both, maybe you don't notice.
Maybe it is a more unique situation than I thought,
but I've certainly had to use both apps, so they
do definitely have accessibility people, and I suspect they're the
people who got it fixed by Microsoft. So great.
S1 (04:29):
On a serious note. Well, we've been serious up until now.
What am I talking about? But you must think I'm
glad I do what I do. When you get results
like this.
S2 (04:35):
It definitely keeps me going. It's the things that. The
things that get to change that you think I don't
know who this is? I'm not going to meet the
people that this makes a difference to. You know, there's
more than they do. Say that there's at least a million,
if not a few million screen reader users in the world. Right?
There's going to be a proportion of those that are
going to benefit from this change. I don't get to
(04:55):
meet them, but I just think it's the lots of
little things that you add up to make people's lives
that little bit easier, that are the big wins. They're
just those little things, those little speed humps that you
can flatten out that just make it worthwhile. This one's
a pretty big one, I think, but still very niche
to a very specific use case and group of people.
But why not change things if you can.
S1 (05:17):
And you've done a video to kind of celebrate it
as well.
S2 (05:20):
Well, I absolutely thought that.
S1 (05:22):
If.
S2 (05:23):
I called them out for it. I mean, my my
message to was, can you just fix it, please? Was
the message that I sent out in the first place.
I celebrate it. Microsoft fixed it. I haven't actually seen
an update to the Google Authenticator app, since. Maybe they're
going to work on it, and next time they update
their app, it'll come through as well. But Microsoft did it,
and then they did it quietly as well. It's not fanfare.
(05:44):
It's not the hey, look at us. How good are we?
They just did it quietly. So I thought, you know what?
I should celebrate that it's not about celebrating that I
did anything but celebrating the fact that these little changes
do make a difference.
S1 (05:55):
We'll put a link to that YouTube video on our
show notes. Now you've got a server happening. At the moment.
S2 (05:59):
We do actually. Yeah, we are talking about recruitment. So
recruitment of people with disabilities. And we're really specifically looking
at online job applications. So where you have to digitally
log in and complete a job application. And what happens
in those systems and things like whether you disclose that
you have a disability at that point and request adjustments,
(06:21):
All of those sorts of things. So it's a $10
paid survey for people who are eligible, and we're going
to do some interviews later in the month as well.
S1 (06:27):
Okay. How can people take part in the survey?
S2 (06:30):
They can visit knowable. So k n o w a
b l e m e and sign up or log
in to their account and have a go at the
eligibility survey. Or they can always get in touch by
email at knowable Dot, or even by phone on 043518507.
S1 (06:48):
That sounds like a commercial. A which it is, but
no one's getting any money for it, so that's great. Well,
you're getting ten bucks if you do the survey. Kelly, congratulations.
I mean, in all seriousness, it's great when little successes
like this, you know, mean big things to a few
people that that's all really important. So thanks for sharing it.
Keep up the good work and we'll catch up with
you when you do your next successful story, or maybe
(07:09):
even when you've got another axe to grind.
S2 (07:12):
Amazing. Thanks for your support.
S1 (07:14):
Kelly Schulz there from me. We'll put those details up
in our show notes, plus the little celebration video as well.
Check them out. And as always, if you have any difficulties,
get in touch with us here at the radio station.
Oh, it's great catching up with Kelly Schultz from Nobull me,
and particularly when there's little success stories to talk about. Kelly,
great to catch up.
S2 (00:20):
Always a pleasure to chat to you, Peter.
S1 (00:21):
You've got some good news regarding a couple of rather
large organizations that people may have heard of.
S2 (00:26):
They probably have. You never know, and I'm not quite
sure whether I get to take credit or not, but
I'm going to.
S1 (00:32):
Yeah. No, I'll give it to you anyway. So it's two,
two from two here. What's happened?
S2 (00:36):
Well, way back in April. I don't know whether you
remember April this year. It was a while ago now.
We did some research on multi-factor authentication. And that's where
we talk to people about different ways that you have
to authenticate passwords and apps and those codes that they
send you on your phone. And one person during those interviews,
(00:56):
one person said to us, it'd be really great if
I could tell the difference between the authenticator apps using
voice over on my phone, so the screen reader on
my phone, because both of them were called authenticator authenticator,
an authenticator, and you can't tell the difference. And those
authenticator apps are made by Google and Microsoft, okay.
S1 (01:18):
Which makes it very difficult because that obviously be very
popular or in big use anyway.
S2 (01:22):
Definitely in big use and definitely not just one as well.
So you'll find if you're someone who needs to have that,
particularly for work purposes, there's a good chance that you'll
have to have both. And even going into the apps,
even if you go into them, they don't actually announce
what they are, whether it's Google or Microsoft, when you
go into them with VoiceOver either. So they're actually genuinely
was no way to tell until you got in there
(01:43):
and had to figure out what the navigation was once
you were there. So what did we do? Well, I
firmly believe in the power of one, as I call it,
and that's that one person's experience is probably evidence of
a lot of people's experience. So we took that piece
of feedback and I thought, well, I think that's a
should be something that's really easy to fix. But bear
in mind, Peter, I think everything should be easy to fix. So,
(02:07):
you know, it sounds like an easy fix to me.
It's one it's one extra word that we need in
those apps so that they announce which one they are.
And I didn't really know what to do, so I
made a video about it. A video for social media.
Because let's face it, everyone wants to be trending, and
that seems to be the place where lots of people
can find something and get things fixed. I personally don't
(02:28):
know anyone at Microsoft or Google, so that seemed like
the best way to go. So I posted that on
the socials, in particular LinkedIn. And then I waited and
I waited, and I waited some more and I continued
to wait. And then one day, just a little bit ago,
I saw an update come through for one of those
apps and you'll never guess what, it has been fixed.
So Microsoft Authenticator app now with VoiceOver only it's not
(02:51):
like the label has changed or anything has visually changed,
but the voiceover label now calls it Microsoft Authenticator.
S1 (02:59):
I was going to ask about visually. So visually people
could see which is which.
S2 (03:02):
Visually they have an icon, so they have the icon
for the app. So visually people could see which is which,
even though the label underneath both apps was just the
word authenticator, and that's the word it was using for
for VoiceOver.
S1 (03:14):
Fantastic. So what do you think happened? So someone saw
your wonderful video and who might that have been and
what did they do about it? Or how did they
go about kind of fixing it?
S2 (03:24):
Well, I think honestly, when you work in these types
of organizations and I've done that, I've had my my time,
you actually genuinely do want to fix things for people
and make things good experiences, but you don't know what
you don't know. Thankfully, quite a few people were tagged
from my network in LinkedIn are okay. So a few
people said, you know, oh, this should be an easy fix.
This is how I'd do it. Or tagged someone from
(03:45):
Google or tag someone from Microsoft. So I genuinely don't know.
Like I said, I don't know whether I can take
credit or not, but the fact.
S1 (03:51):
That you going fixed, I'm.
S2 (03:53):
Going to take the win.
S1 (03:55):
Yeah. Because I mean, the interesting thing is that I'm
assuming they still do. Those organizations did have an accessibility unit,
if I can call them that. I think Elon got
rid of Twitter's pretty quickly, but the others still do have.
And they've got people who are blind or have low
vision working for them.
S2 (04:09):
Absolutely they do. And maybe it's that they only work
exclusively with their own stuff. So unless you're having the
experience of having to use both, maybe you don't notice.
Maybe it is a more unique situation than I thought,
but I've certainly had to use both apps, so they
do definitely have accessibility people, and I suspect they're the
people who got it fixed by Microsoft. So great.
S1 (04:29):
On a serious note. Well, we've been serious up until now.
What am I talking about? But you must think I'm
glad I do what I do. When you get results
like this.
S2 (04:35):
It definitely keeps me going. It's the things that. The
things that get to change that you think I don't
know who this is? I'm not going to meet the
people that this makes a difference to. You know, there's
more than they do. Say that there's at least a million,
if not a few million screen reader users in the world. Right?
There's going to be a proportion of those that are
going to benefit from this change. I don't get to
(04:55):
meet them, but I just think it's the lots of
little things that you add up to make people's lives
that little bit easier, that are the big wins. They're
just those little things, those little speed humps that you
can flatten out that just make it worthwhile. This one's
a pretty big one, I think, but still very niche
to a very specific use case and group of people.
But why not change things if you can.
S1 (05:17):
And you've done a video to kind of celebrate it
as well.
S2 (05:20):
Well, I absolutely thought that.
S1 (05:22):
If.
S2 (05:23):
I called them out for it. I mean, my my
message to was, can you just fix it, please? Was
the message that I sent out in the first place.
I celebrate it. Microsoft fixed it. I haven't actually seen
an update to the Google Authenticator app, since. Maybe they're
going to work on it, and next time they update
their app, it'll come through as well. But Microsoft did it,
and then they did it quietly as well. It's not fanfare.
(05:44):
It's not the hey, look at us. How good are we?
They just did it quietly. So I thought, you know what?
I should celebrate that it's not about celebrating that I
did anything but celebrating the fact that these little changes
do make a difference.
S1 (05:55):
We'll put a link to that YouTube video on our
show notes. Now you've got a server happening. At the moment.
S2 (05:59):
We do actually. Yeah, we are talking about recruitment. So
recruitment of people with disabilities. And we're really specifically looking
at online job applications. So where you have to digitally
log in and complete a job application. And what happens
in those systems and things like whether you disclose that
you have a disability at that point and request adjustments,
(06:21):
All of those sorts of things. So it's a $10
paid survey for people who are eligible, and we're going
to do some interviews later in the month as well.
S1 (06:27):
Okay. How can people take part in the survey?
S2 (06:30):
They can visit knowable. So k n o w a
b l e m e and sign up or log
in to their account and have a go at the
eligibility survey. Or they can always get in touch by
email at knowable Dot, or even by phone on 043518507.
S1 (06:48):
That sounds like a commercial. A which it is, but
no one's getting any money for it, so that's great. Well,
you're getting ten bucks if you do the survey. Kelly, congratulations.
I mean, in all seriousness, it's great when little successes
like this, you know, mean big things to a few
people that that's all really important. So thanks for sharing it.
Keep up the good work and we'll catch up with
you when you do your next successful story, or maybe
(07:09):
even when you've got another axe to grind.
S2 (07:12):
Amazing. Thanks for your support.
S1 (07:14):
Kelly Schulz there from me. We'll put those details up
in our show notes, plus the little celebration video as well.
Check them out. And as always, if you have any difficulties,
get in touch with us here at the radio station.
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