June 26, 2025 • 23 mins
Tim Wilson is co-founder and co-director of Folk Architects, an award-winning architecture practice with a vision to create inclusive and equitable spaces that engage with the community. They activate spaces by integrating art, design, science, and technology in a collaborative user-generated way. In this conversation, Tim talks about how his practice aims to make better built world, not just for the disability community, but for the community as a whole and how becoming the parent of a child living with disability sharpened his focus on the company’s vision.
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S1 (00:04):
Well, I have to say that until recently, I'd never
heard the term folk architects. But I'm starting to find
out all about it. And the person who's going to
tell us about it is a folk architect himself. Tim Wilson,
welcome to the show.
S2 (00:22):
Thank you. Chris.
S1 (00:23):
I hasten to say, not that Tim Wilson, you're the
other Tim Wilson.
S2 (00:27):
It's interesting. Yes. I often get messages. People do confuse
me with the Liberal Party minister, and I have had
text messages to that, uh, to that point before, which
I tend to bat off and ignore because we're quite
different people.
S1 (00:43):
Well, um, I think you were on a panel in
Design Week in, in May, around about the time Tim Wilson,
the other one was, was recounting furiously. Yeah. So you
were both in the news a little bit at the
same time. Must have been very confusing.
S2 (01:02):
It was a little confusing. That's right. And obviously we
share common contacts in our phone as well.
S1 (01:08):
So but let's let all that slip away and talk
about folk architects. You're the director of folk architects.
S2 (01:17):
That's right Chris.
S1 (01:18):
Yeah. Now it conjures up images in my mind of,
you know, natural materials and being out in the bush
and all that kind of stuff. But there's a lot
more to it than that, really, isn't there?
S2 (01:30):
That's right. And we're often asked that. So it's not
because we have a particular interest in folk music per se,
although I don't mind the genre of music, but the
term folk for us really relates to our interest in
architecture and how it relates to people. So it's a
people focused form of architecture and design and a belief that, um,
(01:54):
involving people in the design process and a collaborative design
process leads to the best built outcomes. So that's really
where the term comes from. Um, and it it just
it it's a lovely sounding word as well. It it
resonates with us as a practice.
S1 (02:13):
Um, and it seems, um, a couple of weeks ago,
we were talking with, um, Kim Marriott, um, out at
Monash University, who runs the Monash Assistive Technology and Society
Department there, um, with a mission to move away from
retrospectively dealing with disability in public spaces and really just
(02:38):
building in the notion of inclusion from the ground up.
And it seems like folk architects have very similar mission
that that you want to see a world where inclusion
just happens because that's the way things are designed rather
than because we retrofit.
S2 (02:58):
Correct, Chris. That's right. And so our experience as architects
when working on projects and looking at inclusion or accessibility. Typically,
we've found that it's that it tends to be an
afterthought or something that's considered as the designs well progressed
on a project. And it's it's almost as if inclusion
(03:20):
and accessibility is treated as a compliance issue. And philosophically,
that doesn't feel right to us. What we really aspire to,
and many people in the field of design aspire to,
is looking at inclusion and as and diversity effectively as
a creative opportunity. So what we're really talking about is
(03:41):
bringing lived experience into design process in the early stages
and celebrating the difference in each of each and every
one of us. That's a that's a key philosophy of
our practice. Um, as architects.
S1 (03:56):
Again, just to draw a parallel with the the mats
program out at Monash, when I was talking to Kim there, Here. Um,
he was pretty clear that the work they do, similar
to what you were just saying, doesn't just make life
better for people with disability or whatever. It actually makes
(04:18):
life better for everyone. Um, so that if you get
it right, it's not for one group over the other.
It's it's positive for everyone. Sounds like that's exactly the
same with folk architects as well.
S2 (04:33):
It's exactly so. And I can probably share a little
bit of my personal experience here with you as well, Chris. Yeah.
So as well as being an architect, I'm also a father.
And my youngest daughter, Alfie, uh, she has multiple disabilities.
She's quite complex medically. So she has cerebral palsy. She
(04:56):
has cortical visual impairment and epilepsy, but she's far more
than just a diagnosis. She's also a cheeky and Determine
four year old girl. And she she's really opened our
eyes as architects. So a recognition that that difference or
diversity is just part of life. It's a fact of life.
(05:18):
And I think what you're talking about is exactly in
line with our beliefs as designers. Is that really the
the goal here is for difference and diversity to be
more visible in society, in society which and that in turns,
in shifts, people's attitudes. And it's just it's just about celebrating. Yeah, exactly.
(05:42):
As I said before, the difference and diversity of each
and every one of it. So good design in our view,
recognizes that, celebrates that and accommodates the needs of all.
S1 (05:55):
Did, um, did being a dad to Elfie shift the
way you looked at architecture, or did it simply reaffirm
what you already believed about architecture.
S2 (06:07):
I think a bit of both. So it brought things
to light. It sort of it enabled me to see
the built environment through a new lens. And I think
so it was my first sort of really firsthand experience
with disability. And really as she's grown, we we find that,
(06:30):
for example, outings with Alfie require lots of forward thinking
and planning. So recently we finished actually, there's a bit
of a segue, but we finished a project at the
Melbourne Exhibition Centre, which is a Changing Places facility and
parenting rooms, and it's exactly those sorts of facilities that
we as a family look for when planning our daily outings.
(06:54):
So whether or not a building or an area has
an accessible change facility can mean the difference for us
as a family. Um, as Whether we venture out for
an hour or two or whether we venture out for
the full day. So it's just I think what it
did for me as a parent and as an architect
is walking around the city now. You start to see
(07:17):
all of these barriers to inclusion, and you start to
see that it's actually it's easy to get it right
as well. And I think it talks to your point, Chris,
if it's thought about in the beginning of a project
and the diversity of voices are brought in from the outset,
we're not trying to retrofit things. And, uh, it just
(07:41):
makes for a far more seamless project delivery approach and
a better built outcome. So it definitely, I would say
the experience of Alfie that I was somewhat aware, but
it brought that awareness into sharp focus for me as
an architect. Uh, so yeah, it's been really I think
(08:02):
the experience of her has been ultimately expanding to me
and also to our practice at folk as well, because
she's she's brought that perspective into the design practice. And
then there's a drive now as well to to work
in this space and to advocate for inclusion.
S1 (08:20):
I mentioned before that you were part of a panel
called Beyond Barriers for Design Week in May. Um, I
noticed in part of the description of that event was
the idea that we should explore how we can move
beyond ramps. ET cetera. ET cetera. And it made me
(08:42):
think that I think often people start at that point,
don't they? Because steps becoming ramps is something that people,
I think, you know, see at the entrance to buildings
and that kind of thing. But the work you're doing,
would I be right in thinking that ramps are the
least of the kind of challenges that that you have that, that,
(09:05):
that there are so many more design elements that are
not as obvious to people coming into a building.
S2 (09:13):
Correct. That's right. And often, um, you know, with respect
to that, what we find is that and again, it
talks to this idea of retrofitting, but it's so obvious
as a designer when you walk into spaces that, um, it's,
it's retrofitted or been an afterthought. And often the aesthetic
(09:33):
is quite, I suppose, clinical. Um, and so, for example,
this project we did with the Exhibition centre, the first
thing that we did as architects was, uh, okay, so
we can look at designing a space that ticks all
the boxes from a compliance perspective. But how do we
how do we create a memorable experience for those who
(09:55):
are using the space? So the first thing that we
did was we actually talked to people with lived experience,
their support Workers and carers and family networks, and we
run a series of workshops and questionnaires. And one of
the sort of, I think, key pieces of feedback that
came back to us as designers is that people who
(10:16):
are using these spaces, I mean, they're people, after all,
and they wanted it to feel warm, inviting and inclusive
and almost sort of domestic or homely, because often those
with particularly acute physical additional needs spend a lot of
time in hospital settings and clinical settings as it is.
(10:39):
And they didn't want to feel like that when they're
out and about enjoying their daily activities out in life.
So really, it was about. You're right in that the
ramps are sort of the practical, I suppose, outcome to access.
But to to create an inclusive environment, you need to
bring the thoughts and the voices and the opinions of
(11:00):
the people for whom you're designing along with you in
the design process. And that's just one part of it.
But we're also I mean, as, as as you know, Chris,
diversity is a really diverse term, isn't it? Because it
can be physical disabilities. It can be, um, you know, uh,
sensory impairments and it can be mental impairments, not to
(11:22):
mention the fact that we're all getting older as well.
S1 (11:24):
Of course, we.
S2 (11:25):
Have an aging population.
S1 (11:27):
But it did make it did make me think, you know,
it's a it's a very common practice in theatre, for instance,
now that, um, that certain shows will have a, like
a chill out room or a sensory, um, friendly space
as a sort of add on something that, you know,
wasn't there in the first place. Yes. I'm presuming that
(11:52):
the ambience of light and sound for, um, for neurodiverse
people is a is something that you must think about
in the design of a building.
S2 (12:03):
Absolutely. Very important. Yeah. Um, and, um, another example of,
of that and a project that we've been working on
is actually. Are you familiar with the the, uh, play
space adjacent to the Royal Children's Hospital? The nature play space?
S1 (12:22):
Uh, I know of it. I've never I've never played
in it myself. Tim.
S2 (12:27):
It's a fabulous space and a great a great, um,
I mean, often for sort of families who are regulars
at the hospital, it's your first foray out into the
real world. You go out into it's, you know, the
hospital itself in this incredible park setting, and you head
out and you play in this nature play space. But
there's a distinct lack of, um, I suppose, accessible design elements.
(12:52):
And one of that, one of those is that sensory component.
So because it's quite open and exposed, um, and particularly
sort of kids, you know, for example, with with autism,
you need places to sort of, um, retreat from play and,
but still be part of the action, so to speak,
as well. So you're looking at it's things like sensory cocoons, um,
(13:18):
you know, where you can feel sort of almost, um,
wrapped up and, um, and you can feel you can
feel safe. So and we're seeing that as well. I mean,
for example, we were out at the I'm not particularly
avid sports person, but we took Alfie to the MCG um,
(13:39):
a couple of weeks ago. And I noticed that those
sorts of things, like sensory rooms, are becoming a more
and more common feature of significant public buildings. And, um,
and it's just so important because it means that everybody
can be enjoying, you know, the fabulous events that Melbourne
has on offer, uh, in their own way. So yeah,
(14:03):
it's seeing more and more of that, I think. It's
also a really important point because diversity, the disability is
such a diverse term. Um, it's it's it can be
difficult to accommodate the needs of everyone. But often I
find as a parent that it's not just about it's
(14:24):
about the intent, um, and the action and the message
that that sends that, that people belong. I think really
so I think it's also recognizing that you're not always
going to get everything right because you have conflicting, I suppose,
design criteria, you have sensory considerations. But in conjunction with
that you have people with low vision as well. So
(14:47):
how do you sort of marry the two? But I
think if you can to your point earlier, Chris, bring
as broad a a um, as, you know, as, as
broad a As as many sort of viewpoints into the
design conversation from the outset, then you're going a long
(15:10):
way to creating inclusive environment. So really it's about listening
to people and responding to that.
S1 (15:18):
When did you start Folk Architects?
S2 (15:20):
So back in 2011, Christy and I did. Yeah. So
we've been going now for well yeah close to 15 years.
S1 (15:31):
And is the is the design process the building process.
The cost of buildings. Is that remarkably different in a
architectural design that you come up with than someone who
is designing things in the sort of the way it's
(15:53):
always been done, you know, without, you know, the considerations
that you're taking into account. Or is it just as easy?
S2 (16:01):
It doesn't. it? No, no. The short answer is it
just doesn't need to be. Really. I mean, we're tasked
as architects to design to a budget. There's always a budget.
And so I mean, for example, with this, this project
that the exhibition center, the cost of it, it was really,
(16:24):
you know, it can be simple sort of interventions like
paint colors. Um, you know, particular attention to lighting, uh,
having sort of tactile material finishes and so on and
so forth. So it, it doesn't it doesn't need to
be exorbitantly expensive. But I think it's important to invest
(16:45):
the time at the beginning of the project in the
design to come up with a good outcome. So the
actual built outcome itself doesn't need to be more expensive.
But as architects, you always like to have that time
in the early stages to consider it and to come
up with the best outcome for that particular project.
S1 (17:05):
Are these things that you studied in? I'm presuming you've
done an architecture course. Um, are these things that you studied, um,
or were they lacking in the the teaching of architecture,
and you had to sort of pursue them out of
your own interest?
S2 (17:25):
I think that if we're talking, Chris, about, uh, designing
for people with diverse needs, I mean, I think, look, look,
there's always been if we if we go back to even,
you know, the Scandinavian idea idea of modernism and people
like Alvar Aalto, there was always this sort of human
(17:47):
centered approach to design. And that is still relevant today.
But I think that in society now that we're starting
to sort of recognize and celebrate difference more and more.
So I mean, the short answer is that, uh, I
think we were introduced to it as students. But, you know,
(18:09):
in life, learning never stops, does.
S1 (18:12):
It.
S2 (18:12):
Really? You're always learning and you're always evolving, and your
viewpoints are always changing as you learn more. So yeah,
it was I think our training was was good. It
was quite broad. But I think that we're living in
an exciting time now in Australia. Uh, and the world
for that matter. I mean, it's a complex time as well, obviously,
(18:34):
isn't it? But I think that we're starting to, um. Yeah,
it's becoming more and more part of the public discourse.
I think this idea of difference and disability not just
being I mean, I often go back to it. Alfie
is not her medical diagnosis. She's she's far more than that.
(18:55):
And it's often it's the barriers that are put in
front of her and us as a family that disable
her as much as medical conditions themselves. So yeah, I
think I think we're definitely moving in the right direction.
S1 (19:10):
I'm imagining that, you know, you said you've been doing
this for a while, that as time progresses, what's available
to you in terms of materials and building practices and
obviously your ever expanding knowledge? Do you have moments where
(19:31):
suddenly something, a material will come onto the market, or
a way of doing something, you know, technology will suddenly
enable something that you weren't able to do before, that
you leap at that, you go, that's fantastic, and now
we can do this.
S2 (19:49):
I think in that space, certainly technology, because it's moving
at such a rapid rate, isn't it? So our our
phones are a very powerful device and I know that.
So I think because, you know, if if we look
at what we do as architects, we're, we're, we're working
(20:13):
in the space of the built environment. But that's part
of a, a, you know, a microcosm or a of
a far greater, greater network. So you've also got things
like transport, technology, communication, wayfinding. Everything comes together to create
a seamless experience for people. And I'm noticing certainly in the,
(20:34):
in the, in the space of technology and things like,
for example, I know now that you know, Melbourne airport's
looking at this at the moment, but mapping built environment,
the 3D mapping of the built environment to, to create,
I suppose wayfinding for people with complex needs. And they
(20:56):
can get a very clear idea of what the space
looks and feels like an accessible pathways before they venture
out to visit the space. Those sorts of things are
moving along in leaps and bounds. Um, but yeah, we've
still got a long way to go as well.
S1 (21:12):
Mm. Yeah. Do you have a picture in your head
of what things might look like ten, 15 years from now?
S2 (21:22):
Uh, I would like to think that. And if this
is my aspiration, I suppose, Chris, that, you know, and maybe,
you know, in 15 years time, when we're venturing out
with Alfie as a family, we don't need to sort
of research the areas and look for things like accessible
(21:43):
amenities and so forth. We just know that when we
venture out, the built environment will be suitable for her needs.
That would be amazing. But I think, you know, at
least if we can make some headway in that direction,
that would also be very good as well.
S1 (22:01):
And who knows, she may well be part of the
company by then.
S2 (22:06):
Could I get her on that?
S1 (22:07):
Exactly.
S2 (22:07):
We need to start. Well, that's the thing. Also communication.
Which she can start doing our cab work for us
as well. That's right. Yeah.
S1 (22:16):
Uh, Tim Wilson, it's fantastic work that you're doing. Um, uh,
more strength to your arm. Um, lovely to finally understand
what you do. And it's been great talking to you.
S2 (22:32):
Thanks, Chris. I appreciate the opportunity.
S1 (22:34):
During this chat, you would have heard me mention to
Tim Wilson a previous conversation I had with Professor Kimball
Marriott from the Monash Assistive Technology and Society Department at
Monash University, if you'd like to listen to that. It
was on the May 26th edition of Behind the Scenes,
or there was a longer version released as a podcast
for Global Access Awareness Day on May 16th. Both versions
(22:58):
are right here on the Behind the Scenes podcast page.
Well, I have to say that until recently, I'd never
heard the term folk architects. But I'm starting to find
out all about it. And the person who's going to
tell us about it is a folk architect himself. Tim Wilson,
welcome to the show.
S2 (00:22):
Thank you. Chris.
S1 (00:23):
I hasten to say, not that Tim Wilson, you're the
other Tim Wilson.
S2 (00:27):
It's interesting. Yes. I often get messages. People do confuse
me with the Liberal Party minister, and I have had
text messages to that, uh, to that point before, which
I tend to bat off and ignore because we're quite
different people.
S1 (00:43):
Well, um, I think you were on a panel in
Design Week in, in May, around about the time Tim Wilson,
the other one was, was recounting furiously. Yeah. So you
were both in the news a little bit at the
same time. Must have been very confusing.
S2 (01:02):
It was a little confusing. That's right. And obviously we
share common contacts in our phone as well.
S1 (01:08):
So but let's let all that slip away and talk
about folk architects. You're the director of folk architects.
S2 (01:17):
That's right Chris.
S1 (01:18):
Yeah. Now it conjures up images in my mind of,
you know, natural materials and being out in the bush
and all that kind of stuff. But there's a lot
more to it than that, really, isn't there?
S2 (01:30):
That's right. And we're often asked that. So it's not
because we have a particular interest in folk music per se,
although I don't mind the genre of music, but the
term folk for us really relates to our interest in
architecture and how it relates to people. So it's a
people focused form of architecture and design and a belief that, um,
(01:54):
involving people in the design process and a collaborative design
process leads to the best built outcomes. So that's really
where the term comes from. Um, and it it just
it it's a lovely sounding word as well. It it
resonates with us as a practice.
S1 (02:13):
Um, and it seems, um, a couple of weeks ago,
we were talking with, um, Kim Marriott, um, out at
Monash University, who runs the Monash Assistive Technology and Society
Department there, um, with a mission to move away from
retrospectively dealing with disability in public spaces and really just
(02:38):
building in the notion of inclusion from the ground up.
And it seems like folk architects have very similar mission
that that you want to see a world where inclusion
just happens because that's the way things are designed rather
than because we retrofit.
S2 (02:58):
Correct, Chris. That's right. And so our experience as architects
when working on projects and looking at inclusion or accessibility. Typically,
we've found that it's that it tends to be an
afterthought or something that's considered as the designs well progressed
on a project. And it's it's almost as if inclusion
(03:20):
and accessibility is treated as a compliance issue. And philosophically,
that doesn't feel right to us. What we really aspire to,
and many people in the field of design aspire to,
is looking at inclusion and as and diversity effectively as
a creative opportunity. So what we're really talking about is
(03:41):
bringing lived experience into design process in the early stages
and celebrating the difference in each of each and every
one of us. That's a that's a key philosophy of
our practice. Um, as architects.
S1 (03:56):
Again, just to draw a parallel with the the mats
program out at Monash, when I was talking to Kim there, Here. Um,
he was pretty clear that the work they do, similar
to what you were just saying, doesn't just make life
better for people with disability or whatever. It actually makes
(04:18):
life better for everyone. Um, so that if you get
it right, it's not for one group over the other.
It's it's positive for everyone. Sounds like that's exactly the
same with folk architects as well.
S2 (04:33):
It's exactly so. And I can probably share a little
bit of my personal experience here with you as well, Chris. Yeah.
So as well as being an architect, I'm also a father.
And my youngest daughter, Alfie, uh, she has multiple disabilities.
She's quite complex medically. So she has cerebral palsy. She
(04:56):
has cortical visual impairment and epilepsy, but she's far more
than just a diagnosis. She's also a cheeky and Determine
four year old girl. And she she's really opened our
eyes as architects. So a recognition that that difference or
diversity is just part of life. It's a fact of life.
(05:18):
And I think what you're talking about is exactly in
line with our beliefs as designers. Is that really the
the goal here is for difference and diversity to be
more visible in society, in society which and that in turns,
in shifts, people's attitudes. And it's just it's just about celebrating. Yeah, exactly.
(05:42):
As I said before, the difference and diversity of each
and every one of it. So good design in our view,
recognizes that, celebrates that and accommodates the needs of all.
S1 (05:55):
Did, um, did being a dad to Elfie shift the
way you looked at architecture, or did it simply reaffirm
what you already believed about architecture.
S2 (06:07):
I think a bit of both. So it brought things
to light. It sort of it enabled me to see
the built environment through a new lens. And I think
so it was my first sort of really firsthand experience
with disability. And really as she's grown, we we find that,
(06:30):
for example, outings with Alfie require lots of forward thinking
and planning. So recently we finished actually, there's a bit
of a segue, but we finished a project at the
Melbourne Exhibition Centre, which is a Changing Places facility and
parenting rooms, and it's exactly those sorts of facilities that
we as a family look for when planning our daily outings.
(06:54):
So whether or not a building or an area has
an accessible change facility can mean the difference for us
as a family. Um, as Whether we venture out for
an hour or two or whether we venture out for
the full day. So it's just I think what it
did for me as a parent and as an architect
is walking around the city now. You start to see
(07:17):
all of these barriers to inclusion, and you start to
see that it's actually it's easy to get it right
as well. And I think it talks to your point, Chris,
if it's thought about in the beginning of a project
and the diversity of voices are brought in from the outset,
we're not trying to retrofit things. And, uh, it just
(07:41):
makes for a far more seamless project delivery approach and
a better built outcome. So it definitely, I would say
the experience of Alfie that I was somewhat aware, but
it brought that awareness into sharp focus for me as
an architect. Uh, so yeah, it's been really I think
(08:02):
the experience of her has been ultimately expanding to me
and also to our practice at folk as well, because
she's she's brought that perspective into the design practice. And
then there's a drive now as well to to work
in this space and to advocate for inclusion.
S1 (08:20):
I mentioned before that you were part of a panel
called Beyond Barriers for Design Week in May. Um, I
noticed in part of the description of that event was
the idea that we should explore how we can move
beyond ramps. ET cetera. ET cetera. And it made me
(08:42):
think that I think often people start at that point,
don't they? Because steps becoming ramps is something that people,
I think, you know, see at the entrance to buildings
and that kind of thing. But the work you're doing,
would I be right in thinking that ramps are the
least of the kind of challenges that that you have that, that,
(09:05):
that there are so many more design elements that are
not as obvious to people coming into a building.
S2 (09:13):
Correct. That's right. And often, um, you know, with respect
to that, what we find is that and again, it
talks to this idea of retrofitting, but it's so obvious
as a designer when you walk into spaces that, um, it's,
it's retrofitted or been an afterthought. And often the aesthetic
(09:33):
is quite, I suppose, clinical. Um, and so, for example,
this project we did with the Exhibition centre, the first
thing that we did as architects was, uh, okay, so
we can look at designing a space that ticks all
the boxes from a compliance perspective. But how do we
how do we create a memorable experience for those who
(09:55):
are using the space? So the first thing that we
did was we actually talked to people with lived experience,
their support Workers and carers and family networks, and we
run a series of workshops and questionnaires. And one of
the sort of, I think, key pieces of feedback that
came back to us as designers is that people who
(10:16):
are using these spaces, I mean, they're people, after all,
and they wanted it to feel warm, inviting and inclusive
and almost sort of domestic or homely, because often those
with particularly acute physical additional needs spend a lot of
time in hospital settings and clinical settings as it is.
(10:39):
And they didn't want to feel like that when they're
out and about enjoying their daily activities out in life.
So really, it was about. You're right in that the
ramps are sort of the practical, I suppose, outcome to access.
But to to create an inclusive environment, you need to
bring the thoughts and the voices and the opinions of
(11:00):
the people for whom you're designing along with you in
the design process. And that's just one part of it.
But we're also I mean, as, as as you know, Chris,
diversity is a really diverse term, isn't it? Because it
can be physical disabilities. It can be, um, you know, uh,
sensory impairments and it can be mental impairments, not to
(11:22):
mention the fact that we're all getting older as well.
S1 (11:24):
Of course, we.
S2 (11:25):
Have an aging population.
S1 (11:27):
But it did make it did make me think, you know,
it's a it's a very common practice in theatre, for instance,
now that, um, that certain shows will have a, like
a chill out room or a sensory, um, friendly space
as a sort of add on something that, you know,
wasn't there in the first place. Yes. I'm presuming that
(11:52):
the ambience of light and sound for, um, for neurodiverse
people is a is something that you must think about
in the design of a building.
S2 (12:03):
Absolutely. Very important. Yeah. Um, and, um, another example of,
of that and a project that we've been working on
is actually. Are you familiar with the the, uh, play
space adjacent to the Royal Children's Hospital? The nature play space?
S1 (12:22):
Uh, I know of it. I've never I've never played
in it myself. Tim.
S2 (12:27):
It's a fabulous space and a great a great, um,
I mean, often for sort of families who are regulars
at the hospital, it's your first foray out into the
real world. You go out into it's, you know, the
hospital itself in this incredible park setting, and you head
out and you play in this nature play space. But
there's a distinct lack of, um, I suppose, accessible design elements.
(12:52):
And one of that, one of those is that sensory component.
So because it's quite open and exposed, um, and particularly
sort of kids, you know, for example, with with autism,
you need places to sort of, um, retreat from play and,
but still be part of the action, so to speak,
as well. So you're looking at it's things like sensory cocoons, um,
(13:18):
you know, where you can feel sort of almost, um,
wrapped up and, um, and you can feel you can
feel safe. So and we're seeing that as well. I mean,
for example, we were out at the I'm not particularly
avid sports person, but we took Alfie to the MCG um,
(13:39):
a couple of weeks ago. And I noticed that those
sorts of things, like sensory rooms, are becoming a more
and more common feature of significant public buildings. And, um,
and it's just so important because it means that everybody
can be enjoying, you know, the fabulous events that Melbourne
has on offer, uh, in their own way. So yeah,
(14:03):
it's seeing more and more of that, I think. It's
also a really important point because diversity, the disability is
such a diverse term. Um, it's it's it can be
difficult to accommodate the needs of everyone. But often I
find as a parent that it's not just about it's
(14:24):
about the intent, um, and the action and the message
that that sends that, that people belong. I think really
so I think it's also recognizing that you're not always
going to get everything right because you have conflicting, I suppose,
design criteria, you have sensory considerations. But in conjunction with
that you have people with low vision as well. So
(14:47):
how do you sort of marry the two? But I
think if you can to your point earlier, Chris, bring
as broad a a um, as, you know, as, as
broad a As as many sort of viewpoints into the
design conversation from the outset, then you're going a long
(15:10):
way to creating inclusive environment. So really it's about listening
to people and responding to that.
S1 (15:18):
When did you start Folk Architects?
S2 (15:20):
So back in 2011, Christy and I did. Yeah. So
we've been going now for well yeah close to 15 years.
S1 (15:31):
And is the is the design process the building process.
The cost of buildings. Is that remarkably different in a
architectural design that you come up with than someone who
is designing things in the sort of the way it's
(15:53):
always been done, you know, without, you know, the considerations
that you're taking into account. Or is it just as easy?
S2 (16:01):
It doesn't. it? No, no. The short answer is it
just doesn't need to be. Really. I mean, we're tasked
as architects to design to a budget. There's always a budget.
And so I mean, for example, with this, this project
that the exhibition center, the cost of it, it was really,
(16:24):
you know, it can be simple sort of interventions like
paint colors. Um, you know, particular attention to lighting, uh,
having sort of tactile material finishes and so on and
so forth. So it, it doesn't it doesn't need to
be exorbitantly expensive. But I think it's important to invest
(16:45):
the time at the beginning of the project in the
design to come up with a good outcome. So the
actual built outcome itself doesn't need to be more expensive.
But as architects, you always like to have that time
in the early stages to consider it and to come
up with the best outcome for that particular project.
S1 (17:05):
Are these things that you studied in? I'm presuming you've
done an architecture course. Um, are these things that you studied, um,
or were they lacking in the the teaching of architecture,
and you had to sort of pursue them out of
your own interest?
S2 (17:25):
I think that if we're talking, Chris, about, uh, designing
for people with diverse needs, I mean, I think, look, look,
there's always been if we if we go back to even,
you know, the Scandinavian idea idea of modernism and people
like Alvar Aalto, there was always this sort of human
(17:47):
centered approach to design. And that is still relevant today.
But I think that in society now that we're starting
to sort of recognize and celebrate difference more and more.
So I mean, the short answer is that, uh, I
think we were introduced to it as students. But, you know,
(18:09):
in life, learning never stops, does.
S1 (18:12):
It.
S2 (18:12):
Really? You're always learning and you're always evolving, and your
viewpoints are always changing as you learn more. So yeah,
it was I think our training was was good. It
was quite broad. But I think that we're living in
an exciting time now in Australia. Uh, and the world
for that matter. I mean, it's a complex time as well, obviously,
(18:34):
isn't it? But I think that we're starting to, um. Yeah,
it's becoming more and more part of the public discourse.
I think this idea of difference and disability not just
being I mean, I often go back to it. Alfie
is not her medical diagnosis. She's she's far more than that.
(18:55):
And it's often it's the barriers that are put in
front of her and us as a family that disable
her as much as medical conditions themselves. So yeah, I
think I think we're definitely moving in the right direction.
S1 (19:10):
I'm imagining that, you know, you said you've been doing
this for a while, that as time progresses, what's available
to you in terms of materials and building practices and
obviously your ever expanding knowledge? Do you have moments where
(19:31):
suddenly something, a material will come onto the market, or
a way of doing something, you know, technology will suddenly
enable something that you weren't able to do before, that
you leap at that, you go, that's fantastic, and now
we can do this.
S2 (19:49):
I think in that space, certainly technology, because it's moving
at such a rapid rate, isn't it? So our our
phones are a very powerful device and I know that.
So I think because, you know, if if we look
at what we do as architects, we're, we're, we're working
(20:13):
in the space of the built environment. But that's part
of a, a, you know, a microcosm or a of
a far greater, greater network. So you've also got things
like transport, technology, communication, wayfinding. Everything comes together to create
a seamless experience for people. And I'm noticing certainly in the,
(20:34):
in the, in the space of technology and things like,
for example, I know now that you know, Melbourne airport's
looking at this at the moment, but mapping built environment,
the 3D mapping of the built environment to, to create,
I suppose wayfinding for people with complex needs. And they
(20:56):
can get a very clear idea of what the space
looks and feels like an accessible pathways before they venture
out to visit the space. Those sorts of things are
moving along in leaps and bounds. Um, but yeah, we've
still got a long way to go as well.
S1 (21:12):
Mm. Yeah. Do you have a picture in your head
of what things might look like ten, 15 years from now?
S2 (21:22):
Uh, I would like to think that. And if this
is my aspiration, I suppose, Chris, that, you know, and maybe,
you know, in 15 years time, when we're venturing out
with Alfie as a family, we don't need to sort
of research the areas and look for things like accessible
(21:43):
amenities and so forth. We just know that when we
venture out, the built environment will be suitable for her needs.
That would be amazing. But I think, you know, at
least if we can make some headway in that direction,
that would also be very good as well.
S1 (22:01):
And who knows, she may well be part of the
company by then.
S2 (22:06):
Could I get her on that?
S1 (22:07):
Exactly.
S2 (22:07):
We need to start. Well, that's the thing. Also communication.
Which she can start doing our cab work for us
as well. That's right. Yeah.
S1 (22:16):
Uh, Tim Wilson, it's fantastic work that you're doing. Um, uh,
more strength to your arm. Um, lovely to finally understand
what you do. And it's been great talking to you.
S2 (22:32):
Thanks, Chris. I appreciate the opportunity.
S1 (22:34):
During this chat, you would have heard me mention to
Tim Wilson a previous conversation I had with Professor Kimball
Marriott from the Monash Assistive Technology and Society Department at
Monash University, if you'd like to listen to that. It
was on the May 26th edition of Behind the Scenes,
or there was a longer version released as a podcast
for Global Access Awareness Day on May 16th. Both versions
(22:58):
are right here on the Behind the Scenes podcast page.
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