January 4, 2023 • 20 mins
By now we’re sure you’ve heard it all: inflation is going through the roof and everything is getting more expensive, but your wages haven’t grown to match it. In fact, in real terms, they’ve gone backwards.
On this week’s episode of It All Adds Up, The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age's senior economics writer Jessica Irvine and money editor Dominic Powell discuss how to ask your boss for a pay rise, how to negotiate it, and what to do if they refuse.
It All Adds Up is the podcast where we make money easy to understand so that listeners can begin building their financial wealth. You can submit questions via email or voice memo to italladdsup@nine.com.au for Jess and Dom to answer each week.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to It All Adds Up the podcast
where we chat about money, how to get it, how
to spend it, and how to invest it. I'm senior
economics writer Jess Irvine, and you're listening to our summer series,
where we're replaying some of our hottest hits to help
you get in shipshape financial form for 2023. It all
adds Up will resume normal programming in February with a
(00:21):
brand new season full of money saving tips and insights.
So until then, sit back, relax and enjoy. Hello and
welcome to It All Adds Up the podcast where we
chat about money, how to get it, how to spend
(00:42):
it and how to invest it. I'm senior economics writer
Jess Irvine.
S2 (00:46):
And I'm money editor Dom Powell. And today we're going
to get you a pay rise.
S1 (00:49):
Well, we're going to try anyway. We're going to give
you some strategies. But do stick around to the end
of the episode as well, because we're going to be
answering our first listener question about investing in property. And
of course, I'll be sharing my budget tip of the week.
S2 (01:02):
So just you've written recently that there's never been a
more important time to think about asking for a pay
rise because we've got official data that shows that average
wages are rising around 2.6%, but inflation is at 6.1%,
which is a lot higher than 2.6%.
S1 (01:17):
That means that your real wage is going backwards. So
if you don't know what that means, that's you know,
when the price of things are going up faster than
your wage, you can afford to buy less stuff from
your money. So you either have to, you know, slash
your spending or find ways to increase your income and
get a pay rise. So that's what I thought would
be really great to focus on today.
S2 (01:38):
Yeah, and it's also a great time to ask for
a pay rise because the unemployment rate is at a
half century low. So the workers have never had more
power in pay negotiations because businesses just need that need
the workers. So it's a great time to be asking
for for more money.
S1 (01:54):
You can always ask you.
S2 (01:55):
And you can always ask what's what's the harm?
S1 (01:57):
Exactly. And I think we did just want to acknowledge,
you know, we're going to talk about pay rises today.
Not everyone can negotiate their salary because you're on the
minimum wage or you're on award stipulated wages, you know,
and then you are collectively bargaining or you're having your
wages determined for you. But you can always be sort
of pushing for greater progression to be moving up the scale.
(02:19):
And I also just wanted to recognize that we've also
probably got some people running small businesses. And then you're
not talking about going to a boss, but you are
talking about setting your prices and negotiating with clients essentially
for the work that you're doing. So it's an important
conversation for everyone, whether you're a salary earner or earning
income in those different ways.
S2 (02:37):
Yeah, and I think maybe the best way to start
is to talk about the ways that you shouldn't ask
for a pay rise, because.
S1 (02:44):
I've done a few of them.
S2 (02:47):
Yeah, well, I think we've all we've all been there.
And I think number one is to not ask, because
as we said before, you can always.
S1 (02:53):
Ask, you can always ask. And some companies, you know,
have really highly structured pay reviews every set periods of time.
And in some companies the topic just never comes up
unless you raise it. So asking is really important. And
then my other thing is don't wait so long that
you are you have this sort of building resentment inside you.
You have left it for so long and that you
(03:14):
sort of just sort of get in this mood where
you're really feeling resentful to your boss and then you
sort of launch ad on them that I need a
pay rise. I'm, you know, overworked, underpaid, because that's not
a great mindset to to be going into the negotiations with.
S2 (03:28):
Yeah. And I think you should always make sure you
have a bit of a sense of your market value,
know your worth. It's always a good thing to do
in pay rises in life, in everything, in relationships. So
we get into that and you never want to have
no back up. If they come to you and they
say no, do you pay? Right? So you order you
want to have something in the tank for Eve, which
is not a you know, which is a particularly not
(03:49):
an unlikely situation where they might say no. So you
want to have something else to offer. So what should
people do when they're asking for a pay rise?
S1 (03:57):
Yes. So let's flip it around. So there's a few
things don't do. And another one is just don't go
in and start whingeing about lettuce and saying that lettuce
is very expensive and I can't afford it because the
cost of living is true for everyone. But it's not
a great argument as to why you specifically deserve a
pay rise because you are competing with colleagues, I guess
to get that extra money in a way. So yeah, let's,
(04:19):
let's put it in the in the positive and we've
come up with about ten, ten points here, ten strategies
which should help people broach what is I think, you know,
a lot of people find it difficult. Even the idea
of asking for a pay rise will make some people cringe.
And they're just you just don't know how to go
about it. So you mentioned there, Don, what are the
(04:40):
most important steps before you even have to summons any
courage to ask your boss, what should people be doing?
S2 (04:46):
Well, they should be looking around and working out what
the general sort of market value for the job that
you're that you have, what job that you want if
you're asking for a promotion is so total recruiters look
on job websites like very often you can go on
to seek and there will be, you know, a job
that might be similar to yours and will have a
salary range. And if you look at that job and
(05:07):
you look, oh, my salary isn't like that, that gives
you a bit of an indication of of maybe what
you should be asking for, what you could be asking for.
And you can also ask colleagues what they're paid. That's fine.
You can do that sort of subtly. You know, it's, it's,
it's alright to get a bit of a sense from
people you work with or maybe other people in the
industry that you might not work with to see what
(05:28):
they're being paid to, to make sure that you're sort
of on the, on the same page.
S1 (05:31):
I have done, that I'm the annoying friend. I ask
all my friend. NS exactly how much they're being paid.
So I know what all my good friends are being paid,
which is awkward enough. But then I have also been
sneaky and asked colleagues and you have to be careful
because some companies do have pay secrecy clauses where you
can't divulge what your salary is. So you have to
(05:51):
be a little bit careful, but you can sort of
just broach it in terms of a Oh, I'm curious
to know if you would be interested in, you know,
swapping information about a bit of a trade page, which
might be awkward, but maybe you'll discover something or maybe
I will. And we both get information. So and as
a woman, I always say, don't forget to to ask
(06:14):
your male colleagues what they're being paid. And I've actually
found male colleagues are quite forthcoming and wanting to help,
you know, because we do know there is that gender
pay gap. So, yeah, just a little bit of sneaky
research internally.
S2 (06:26):
I see nothing wrong with a bit of sneaky internal research,
is that right?
S1 (06:29):
I'm all for it. But then once you've done your research,
this is a mistake that I have made before into
sort of lobbying, a pay rise, discussion on to a
manager unprepared, you know, and managers are people too, and
they need a bit of time to sort of be
in the mindset to be thinking about your pay and
(06:50):
not sort of doing rosters and other things. So I
think if you are thinking of asking popping the big question,
put it in an email or a message and get
an actual time in the calendar, Schedule some time with
your manager to sit down and make it really apparent
from the get go that you want to discuss your
pay and performance. So it's not a surprise when you
(07:13):
do start talking about it. I think that's really important
to help your boss be prepared for the conversation as well.
S2 (07:18):
And then once you've got that time in your calendar
or you know, you've got a sort of a something
lined up, it's great to sort of sit down and
prepare a one page summary. Don't want to go too
over the top. You know, you don't need to do
a full resumé. They've already employed you. But summary of
your sort of achievements, your current pay and the way
that you might be sort of, you know, achieving over
(07:41):
your current position. You know, that could be something like
customer satisfaction ratings if you're in sort of that sort
of job or your sales numbers, if you're in a
sales job or anything that's anything you can sort of
draw on to sort of really help make your point.
So you can come at it from a sort of a,
you know, cost of living and inflation and pay rise
sort of angle, but then also sort of back it
(08:01):
up with a bit of with a bit of solid data.
So I think definitely worth making sure you have made
a bit of a plan when you come into these
sort of meetings.
S1 (08:10):
Yeah. And particularly if you are feeling a bit nervous
about it, I think that's really helpful to literally have
it in front of you. So you've got some key cards.
S2 (08:17):
Why not.
S1 (08:18):
Make some cue cards, PowerPoint.
S2 (08:20):
Presentation?
S1 (08:22):
But then I think that is pay rise.
S2 (08:24):
Worthy Yeah, I mean, that would be impressed. If I
was a manager, I'd give someone a pay rise if
they had a full on PowerPoint presentation. All the animations. Yep,
that's it.
S1 (08:30):
More interactive graphics as to why I'm awesome. Yeah, but
also if you do sort of stumble in the meeting
or you get flustered and you don't manage to make
all the points, you can also just send that to
your boss afterwards. And I've just following up here, here
is some more points that I didn't get around to mentioning.
So I think that's a great idea. So moving into
the sort of brass tacks of negotiation, one thing to
(08:53):
just mention, everything is negotiable. So even when you're looking
at the job ads and it says, you know, but
usually it's a range, but if it says, you know,
the salary is $70,000, nobody pays the ticket price or,
you know, no, nobody. But lots of people do, unfortunately.
And what we do see is, unfortunately, women tend to
be more reticent in even asking for, you know, an
(09:16):
increase on the starting salary. And I was looking at
some gender pay gap statistics. And even for people under
age 20 with no kids or any any other childcare
responsibilities in there, women are still earning 3.7% less than men.
And part of that is due to just not asking
the question, not saying, you know, just taking the face
(09:37):
value of being so grateful for the salary, but you know,
ask for more.
S2 (09:41):
In the same vein, never make the first offer. Make
sure that the employer is the one that's coming to
you with with the offer of of a pay rise.
And sort of they're suggesting what it is because that
gives you more bargaining power. Like I've got a friend
who's done a number of job interviews recently, and the
employer would always ask him, what would you think the
salary for this role would be? And he would go, Well,
what's the salary on offer? And I would make sure
(10:03):
that he was never the first one to put a
number on the table.
S1 (10:05):
Exactly. Because you don't want to be just from the
get go starting too low. And particularly if you're someone
who is going to undervalue your skills, wait to see
because they may offer you more than you would ever
dream to ask for. So I think that's a good one.
And so the next tip is if they do make
an offer to you, never accept the first offer. So
(10:26):
whatever it is, even if it's wildly above, you know,
what you were thinking, you know, you've wanted a pay
rise and they suddenly come back and say, yes, here's.
$5,000 extra a year. Never accept that. Just go. Oh. Oh,
Thank you. Thank you for that proposal. I'd like a
little bit of time to think about that. If possible,
you can do some delaying and then always come back
(10:49):
and ask for more so you can say, I really
appreciate you coming to the table with that. I think
that I'm worth a little bit more. I think I'm
worth $10,000 more a year and see how they go,
because what they offer you is rarely the final of
what they can truly pay you.
S2 (11:06):
And I mean, you know, in this it is power
to the workers here. So we're just going to keep
on table and hitting it with these with these with
these strong sort of communist vibes here. But, you know,
ask for double what you want. Like, you know, think
about how much of a of a pay rise you
want and then ask for twice that. And like I
know that might sound like ridiculous and outlandish and whatever
(11:28):
but again all you can do is ask and then
if they come back to you and say, well, look,
we can only offer you half of this, and then you. Right.
What you started exactly getting what you want.
S1 (11:37):
So they go, Yeah, happy days. And don't forget that
your boss is probably paid a lot more than you.
S2 (11:42):
Almost always, I think is the idea.
S1 (11:44):
Well, that's the whole point, you know. So use your
view for what might be an audacious sum to ask
for is still going to be smaller than what you
know your boss is on. They're still going to think that,
you know, it's not going to seem audacious to them
unless you really are just walking in and saying, I
want $200,000 for my retail worker position.
S2 (12:04):
Yeah, I mean, there are some caveats here.
S1 (12:06):
Yeah, but we're trying to get you to try. You
got to have a have a crack. Yeah.
S2 (12:11):
Have a go to get a guy. Is someone famous.
One said.
S1 (12:14):
Who said.
S2 (12:14):
That. I think some politician anyway.
S1 (12:17):
So I mean overall I think the mindset that you
take into this is important and people sort of have
a sense of oh, it's my boss is going to
be annoyed with me, I'm going to be an inconvenience,
but actually try to flip that. And, you know, having
pay negotiations is a crucial part of the job of
being a manager of people. And by by initiating the conversation,
(12:41):
you know, they're expecting it. Bosses expect people to ask
for pay rises. And if you are really a good
performing employee, it's better for your work output, it's better
for your boss that you do talk about it and
you don't have that resentment that builds over time because
you haven't asked for what you think you're worth. So
just trying to have a mindset of, you know, this
(13:02):
is a good conversation for everyone to have and not
to put off.
S2 (13:06):
Yeah, and you can always come in with things that
are not necessarily strictly pay rise related like a lot
of jobs, offer perks, you know, personal development funds, some
jobs give you free gym memberships and all that sort
of stuff. Like there's a lot of things that, you know,
if you don't necessarily or if you can't necessarily get
a full monetary pay rise, you could ask for more
(13:29):
annual leave or more flexible hours or more training or
something like that. And then you can use those things
to then maybe build your case for a pay rise,
you know, in 12 months time.
S1 (13:40):
Yeah, and that's a really important thing to think about.
If the boss does actually say no, you have to
prepare some strategies for if they do say no and
asking for, you know, those alternative things can be one
of one of the strategies you do, you know, you ask,
you know, they say no, but could I have this
and that instead? Another good thing, I think if if
(14:01):
the boss says, no, don't just let it slide until
the next year. A great way to say follow up
on that is like, well, can we talk about it
in another three months, six months? And then could you
give me some idea of what I would need to
do in that time period to sort of have this
conversation again and for you to feel that I've really
demonstrated that I'm working at capacity and that I'm doing
(14:23):
good things, you know, So come up with a bit
of a a short term plan if they do say no.
S2 (14:28):
And then if all else fails, get up and leave.
You can do it.
S1 (14:32):
Walk out the door, speak up the door.
S2 (14:34):
Stuff in a box, get your plan, put it in
a nice box and walk out the door. You can
do it. The job market is hot. It's so hot.
You can you could you could find another job, depending
obviously on your job, but you could probably find another
job pretty easily. So don't be afraid to walk out.
S1 (14:50):
Yeah. I mean, have a plan, you should say, you know.
S2 (14:54):
Just go. Just leave.
S1 (14:56):
Just, you know.
S2 (14:57):
Okay.
S1 (14:58):
David, do you seriously have a plan? You know, if
you've done your research, you know, maybe you've talked to
the competitor organizations, maybe you've got an offer from an
alternative competitor, or you just know that, you know, the
employer down the street is paying more. Yeah, leave. I mean,
it's it's it's just not the usual thing anymore that
you would stick with one company for your whole career.
(15:19):
And the surveys do show that people who do switch
jobs more often to alternative employers, they do get paid more,
you know, as their careers progress. It's a great point
to negotiate your salary again and really go to where
your skills are valued.
S2 (15:34):
Yeah. And that's the number one thing. You want to
be valued. You want to be paid what you're worth.
And that's why we're here trying to tell you and
help you that you should be paid what you're worth.
So go out there, ask for a pay raise and
see how you go. Because as we've said a few times,
all you can do is ask.
S1 (15:49):
You should ask.
S2 (15:50):
And you should. And you should. Now onto Allison, a
question for the week. Our question this week is from Michelle,
who's sent in her question, and we really appreciate it.
So please send in all your questions. We would love
to hear them or read them. Michelle asks, How do
you get into the property investment market when prices are
still quite high? Should I wait until interest rates go
higher and prices fall? Jess, what do you think?
S1 (16:13):
Yeah, so this is trying to time the market, I think.
And that is something that lots of people would tell
you is very hard to do, trying to pick pick
the bottom. I mean, I think and I have written that,
you know, I may be interested in getting an investment
property one day. The thing about that is that as
interest rates are going up, we've got prices coming down.
(16:37):
It's always a double edged sword. So that's might be
great because prices might get cheaper. That is happening because
interest rates are going up. And when interest rates go up,
you can actually borrow less. So there's always swings and roundabouts.
My view is that if you have considered what your
alternative strategies are, whether you you know, if property investment
is going to fit into your goals and objectives, if
(16:59):
you've considered alternatives, if you've got, you know, your emergency
fund of 3 to 6 months sitting there, you do
know that you have some spare cash flow to invest.
Then just try not to sort of get too absorbed
in the noise of of property prices going up or down.
You know, what's really going to determine whether property pays
off as an investment for you is whether you borrow responsibly,
(17:21):
whether you buy a property, you know, that is, you know,
reasonably priced with good, you know, long term capital growth prospects,
you know. And that's a really individual question as to
which markets you're looking at buying into. So just doing
all your research, getting a handle on your budget and
realizing if you have the cash flow, if you do
have it, and if you're a long term investor, you're
(17:41):
planning to hold the property for decades, you know, it's
all going to come out in the wash. So my
tip is don't try to time the market.
S2 (17:49):
Yeah. And if you look at property prices in Australia,
they tend to go up.
S1 (17:53):
Over time, but they can over time they can dip.
S2 (17:56):
So it's I think timing the market is is difficult
to say.
S1 (18:00):
But be in it for the long, long term investment.
S2 (18:02):
Here. Yeah. Just around us off. What's your budget tip
for the week Geoff.
S1 (18:05):
Yes. So petrol prices have been bobbing around a lot
but if anyone is not using petrol price apps, you're
making me cry. That's really bad. There are price comparison
apps in every state, and when I fill up, you know,
it can be the difference of 40 or $0.60 per
litre for a station that is just across the road.
(18:26):
So just like letting the people know if you're in
New South Wales, your app is fuel check, download it now.
If you're in Victoria, the RACV has a site as well.
And for everyone else and including those states as well,
this national sites like GasBuddy, petrol, spy and motor mouth.
And I should also mention the 7-Eleven app, if you
(18:47):
want to download that, it has a price lock feature,
which means if you know that prices are about to
take off, you can duck into a 7-Eleven or you
just have to like drive past it and it scans
for a 7-Eleven in your area and you can lock
in a low price that you can then redeem over
a seven day period. And then you do need to
just check that the 7-Eleven price is still the cheaper.
So you go back to your original price check app,
(19:10):
but get on it.
S2 (19:12):
I love I use petrol spy all the time, you know.
I do, yeah. Yeah. Big fan. And there's this little
petrol station just around the corner from me, which is
like independent and has like three pumps and it is
the cheapest fuel. This is my secret for anyone who
lives in the like Melbourne's north. There's a little, little
petrol station in Ascot Vale. Cheapest fuel around this much.
That's my guarantee. That's my budget. Tip of the week.
(19:33):
All right, well, that's it. And don't forget, ask your
boss for a pay rise. Let us know how it goes, then.
US an email. Did it work? Are you now filthy rich?
If so, give me some. And we'll see you next week.
This episode of It All Adds Up was produced by
Cheech Chong. The information discussed is general in nature and
does not take into account your personal financial situation, goals
(19:55):
or objectives. You should always do your own research or
get professional advice before making any major financial decision. If
you like today's episode, it follow a new podcast app.
Leave a review and recommend it to all your friends.
You can also submit your listener questions in text or
audio form at. It all adds up at 9:00 today.
Thanks for listening.
Hello and welcome to It All Adds Up the podcast
where we chat about money, how to get it, how
to spend it, and how to invest it. I'm senior
economics writer Jess Irvine, and you're listening to our summer series,
where we're replaying some of our hottest hits to help
you get in shipshape financial form for 2023. It all
adds Up will resume normal programming in February with a
(00:21):
brand new season full of money saving tips and insights.
So until then, sit back, relax and enjoy. Hello and
welcome to It All Adds Up the podcast where we
chat about money, how to get it, how to spend
(00:42):
it and how to invest it. I'm senior economics writer
Jess Irvine.
S2 (00:46):
And I'm money editor Dom Powell. And today we're going
to get you a pay rise.
S1 (00:49):
Well, we're going to try anyway. We're going to give
you some strategies. But do stick around to the end
of the episode as well, because we're going to be
answering our first listener question about investing in property. And
of course, I'll be sharing my budget tip of the week.
S2 (01:02):
So just you've written recently that there's never been a
more important time to think about asking for a pay
rise because we've got official data that shows that average
wages are rising around 2.6%, but inflation is at 6.1%,
which is a lot higher than 2.6%.
S1 (01:17):
That means that your real wage is going backwards. So
if you don't know what that means, that's you know,
when the price of things are going up faster than
your wage, you can afford to buy less stuff from
your money. So you either have to, you know, slash
your spending or find ways to increase your income and
get a pay rise. So that's what I thought would
be really great to focus on today.
S2 (01:38):
Yeah, and it's also a great time to ask for
a pay rise because the unemployment rate is at a
half century low. So the workers have never had more
power in pay negotiations because businesses just need that need
the workers. So it's a great time to be asking
for for more money.
S1 (01:54):
You can always ask you.
S2 (01:55):
And you can always ask what's what's the harm?
S1 (01:57):
Exactly. And I think we did just want to acknowledge,
you know, we're going to talk about pay rises today.
Not everyone can negotiate their salary because you're on the
minimum wage or you're on award stipulated wages, you know,
and then you are collectively bargaining or you're having your
wages determined for you. But you can always be sort
of pushing for greater progression to be moving up the scale.
(02:19):
And I also just wanted to recognize that we've also
probably got some people running small businesses. And then you're
not talking about going to a boss, but you are
talking about setting your prices and negotiating with clients essentially
for the work that you're doing. So it's an important
conversation for everyone, whether you're a salary earner or earning
income in those different ways.
S2 (02:37):
Yeah, and I think maybe the best way to start
is to talk about the ways that you shouldn't ask
for a pay rise, because.
S1 (02:44):
I've done a few of them.
S2 (02:47):
Yeah, well, I think we've all we've all been there.
And I think number one is to not ask, because
as we said before, you can always.
S1 (02:53):
Ask, you can always ask. And some companies, you know,
have really highly structured pay reviews every set periods of time.
And in some companies the topic just never comes up
unless you raise it. So asking is really important. And
then my other thing is don't wait so long that
you are you have this sort of building resentment inside you.
You have left it for so long and that you
(03:14):
sort of just sort of get in this mood where
you're really feeling resentful to your boss and then you
sort of launch ad on them that I need a
pay rise. I'm, you know, overworked, underpaid, because that's not
a great mindset to to be going into the negotiations with.
S2 (03:28):
Yeah. And I think you should always make sure you
have a bit of a sense of your market value,
know your worth. It's always a good thing to do
in pay rises in life, in everything, in relationships. So
we get into that and you never want to have
no back up. If they come to you and they
say no, do you pay? Right? So you order you
want to have something in the tank for Eve, which
is not a you know, which is a particularly not
(03:49):
an unlikely situation where they might say no. So you
want to have something else to offer. So what should
people do when they're asking for a pay rise?
S1 (03:57):
Yes. So let's flip it around. So there's a few
things don't do. And another one is just don't go
in and start whingeing about lettuce and saying that lettuce
is very expensive and I can't afford it because the
cost of living is true for everyone. But it's not
a great argument as to why you specifically deserve a
pay rise because you are competing with colleagues, I guess
to get that extra money in a way. So yeah, let's,
(04:19):
let's put it in the in the positive and we've
come up with about ten, ten points here, ten strategies
which should help people broach what is I think, you know,
a lot of people find it difficult. Even the idea
of asking for a pay rise will make some people cringe.
And they're just you just don't know how to go
about it. So you mentioned there, Don, what are the
(04:40):
most important steps before you even have to summons any
courage to ask your boss, what should people be doing?
S2 (04:46):
Well, they should be looking around and working out what
the general sort of market value for the job that
you're that you have, what job that you want if
you're asking for a promotion is so total recruiters look
on job websites like very often you can go on
to seek and there will be, you know, a job
that might be similar to yours and will have a
salary range. And if you look at that job and
(05:07):
you look, oh, my salary isn't like that, that gives
you a bit of an indication of of maybe what
you should be asking for, what you could be asking for.
And you can also ask colleagues what they're paid. That's fine.
You can do that sort of subtly. You know, it's, it's,
it's alright to get a bit of a sense from
people you work with or maybe other people in the
industry that you might not work with to see what
(05:28):
they're being paid to, to make sure that you're sort
of on the, on the same page.
S1 (05:31):
I have done, that I'm the annoying friend. I ask
all my friend. NS exactly how much they're being paid.
So I know what all my good friends are being paid,
which is awkward enough. But then I have also been
sneaky and asked colleagues and you have to be careful
because some companies do have pay secrecy clauses where you
can't divulge what your salary is. So you have to
(05:51):
be a little bit careful, but you can sort of
just broach it in terms of a Oh, I'm curious
to know if you would be interested in, you know,
swapping information about a bit of a trade page, which
might be awkward, but maybe you'll discover something or maybe
I will. And we both get information. So and as
a woman, I always say, don't forget to to ask
(06:14):
your male colleagues what they're being paid. And I've actually
found male colleagues are quite forthcoming and wanting to help,
you know, because we do know there is that gender
pay gap. So, yeah, just a little bit of sneaky
research internally.
S2 (06:26):
I see nothing wrong with a bit of sneaky internal research,
is that right?
S1 (06:29):
I'm all for it. But then once you've done your research,
this is a mistake that I have made before into
sort of lobbying, a pay rise, discussion on to a
manager unprepared, you know, and managers are people too, and
they need a bit of time to sort of be
in the mindset to be thinking about your pay and
(06:50):
not sort of doing rosters and other things. So I
think if you are thinking of asking popping the big question,
put it in an email or a message and get
an actual time in the calendar, Schedule some time with
your manager to sit down and make it really apparent
from the get go that you want to discuss your
pay and performance. So it's not a surprise when you
(07:13):
do start talking about it. I think that's really important
to help your boss be prepared for the conversation as well.
S2 (07:18):
And then once you've got that time in your calendar
or you know, you've got a sort of a something
lined up, it's great to sort of sit down and
prepare a one page summary. Don't want to go too
over the top. You know, you don't need to do
a full resumé. They've already employed you. But summary of
your sort of achievements, your current pay and the way
that you might be sort of, you know, achieving over
(07:41):
your current position. You know, that could be something like
customer satisfaction ratings if you're in sort of that sort
of job or your sales numbers, if you're in a
sales job or anything that's anything you can sort of
draw on to sort of really help make your point.
So you can come at it from a sort of a,
you know, cost of living and inflation and pay rise
sort of angle, but then also sort of back it
(08:01):
up with a bit of with a bit of solid data.
So I think definitely worth making sure you have made
a bit of a plan when you come into these
sort of meetings.
S1 (08:10):
Yeah. And particularly if you are feeling a bit nervous
about it, I think that's really helpful to literally have
it in front of you. So you've got some key cards.
S2 (08:17):
Why not.
S1 (08:18):
Make some cue cards, PowerPoint.
S2 (08:20):
Presentation?
S1 (08:22):
But then I think that is pay rise.
S2 (08:24):
Worthy Yeah, I mean, that would be impressed. If I
was a manager, I'd give someone a pay rise if
they had a full on PowerPoint presentation. All the animations. Yep,
that's it.
S1 (08:30):
More interactive graphics as to why I'm awesome. Yeah, but
also if you do sort of stumble in the meeting
or you get flustered and you don't manage to make
all the points, you can also just send that to
your boss afterwards. And I've just following up here, here
is some more points that I didn't get around to mentioning.
So I think that's a great idea. So moving into
the sort of brass tacks of negotiation, one thing to
(08:53):
just mention, everything is negotiable. So even when you're looking
at the job ads and it says, you know, but
usually it's a range, but if it says, you know,
the salary is $70,000, nobody pays the ticket price or,
you know, no, nobody. But lots of people do, unfortunately.
And what we do see is, unfortunately, women tend to
be more reticent in even asking for, you know, an
(09:16):
increase on the starting salary. And I was looking at
some gender pay gap statistics. And even for people under
age 20 with no kids or any any other childcare
responsibilities in there, women are still earning 3.7% less than men.
And part of that is due to just not asking
the question, not saying, you know, just taking the face
(09:37):
value of being so grateful for the salary, but you know,
ask for more.
S2 (09:41):
In the same vein, never make the first offer. Make
sure that the employer is the one that's coming to
you with with the offer of of a pay rise.
And sort of they're suggesting what it is because that
gives you more bargaining power. Like I've got a friend
who's done a number of job interviews recently, and the
employer would always ask him, what would you think the
salary for this role would be? And he would go, Well,
what's the salary on offer? And I would make sure
(10:03):
that he was never the first one to put a
number on the table.
S1 (10:05):
Exactly. Because you don't want to be just from the
get go starting too low. And particularly if you're someone
who is going to undervalue your skills, wait to see
because they may offer you more than you would ever
dream to ask for. So I think that's a good one.
And so the next tip is if they do make
an offer to you, never accept the first offer. So
(10:26):
whatever it is, even if it's wildly above, you know,
what you were thinking, you know, you've wanted a pay
rise and they suddenly come back and say, yes, here's.
$5,000 extra a year. Never accept that. Just go. Oh. Oh,
Thank you. Thank you for that proposal. I'd like a
little bit of time to think about that. If possible,
you can do some delaying and then always come back
(10:49):
and ask for more so you can say, I really
appreciate you coming to the table with that. I think
that I'm worth a little bit more. I think I'm
worth $10,000 more a year and see how they go,
because what they offer you is rarely the final of
what they can truly pay you.
S2 (11:06):
And I mean, you know, in this it is power
to the workers here. So we're just going to keep
on table and hitting it with these with these with
these strong sort of communist vibes here. But, you know,
ask for double what you want. Like, you know, think
about how much of a of a pay rise you
want and then ask for twice that. And like I
know that might sound like ridiculous and outlandish and whatever
(11:28):
but again all you can do is ask and then
if they come back to you and say, well, look,
we can only offer you half of this, and then you. Right.
What you started exactly getting what you want.
S1 (11:37):
So they go, Yeah, happy days. And don't forget that
your boss is probably paid a lot more than you.
S2 (11:42):
Almost always, I think is the idea.
S1 (11:44):
Well, that's the whole point, you know. So use your
view for what might be an audacious sum to ask
for is still going to be smaller than what you
know your boss is on. They're still going to think that,
you know, it's not going to seem audacious to them
unless you really are just walking in and saying, I
want $200,000 for my retail worker position.
S2 (12:04):
Yeah, I mean, there are some caveats here.
S1 (12:06):
Yeah, but we're trying to get you to try. You
got to have a have a crack. Yeah.
S2 (12:11):
Have a go to get a guy. Is someone famous.
One said.
S1 (12:14):
Who said.
S2 (12:14):
That. I think some politician anyway.
S1 (12:17):
So I mean overall I think the mindset that you
take into this is important and people sort of have
a sense of oh, it's my boss is going to
be annoyed with me, I'm going to be an inconvenience,
but actually try to flip that. And, you know, having
pay negotiations is a crucial part of the job of
being a manager of people. And by by initiating the conversation,
(12:41):
you know, they're expecting it. Bosses expect people to ask
for pay rises. And if you are really a good
performing employee, it's better for your work output, it's better
for your boss that you do talk about it and
you don't have that resentment that builds over time because
you haven't asked for what you think you're worth. So
just trying to have a mindset of, you know, this
(13:02):
is a good conversation for everyone to have and not
to put off.
S2 (13:06):
Yeah, and you can always come in with things that
are not necessarily strictly pay rise related like a lot
of jobs, offer perks, you know, personal development funds, some
jobs give you free gym memberships and all that sort
of stuff. Like there's a lot of things that, you know,
if you don't necessarily or if you can't necessarily get
a full monetary pay rise, you could ask for more
(13:29):
annual leave or more flexible hours or more training or
something like that. And then you can use those things
to then maybe build your case for a pay rise,
you know, in 12 months time.
S1 (13:40):
Yeah, and that's a really important thing to think about.
If the boss does actually say no, you have to
prepare some strategies for if they do say no and
asking for, you know, those alternative things can be one
of one of the strategies you do, you know, you ask,
you know, they say no, but could I have this
and that instead? Another good thing, I think if if
(14:01):
the boss says, no, don't just let it slide until
the next year. A great way to say follow up
on that is like, well, can we talk about it
in another three months, six months? And then could you
give me some idea of what I would need to
do in that time period to sort of have this
conversation again and for you to feel that I've really
demonstrated that I'm working at capacity and that I'm doing
(14:23):
good things, you know, So come up with a bit
of a a short term plan if they do say no.
S2 (14:28):
And then if all else fails, get up and leave.
You can do it.
S1 (14:32):
Walk out the door, speak up the door.
S2 (14:34):
Stuff in a box, get your plan, put it in
a nice box and walk out the door. You can
do it. The job market is hot. It's so hot.
You can you could you could find another job, depending
obviously on your job, but you could probably find another
job pretty easily. So don't be afraid to walk out.
S1 (14:50):
Yeah. I mean, have a plan, you should say, you know.
S2 (14:54):
Just go. Just leave.
S1 (14:56):
Just, you know.
S2 (14:57):
Okay.
S1 (14:58):
David, do you seriously have a plan? You know, if
you've done your research, you know, maybe you've talked to
the competitor organizations, maybe you've got an offer from an
alternative competitor, or you just know that, you know, the
employer down the street is paying more. Yeah, leave. I mean,
it's it's it's just not the usual thing anymore that
you would stick with one company for your whole career.
(15:19):
And the surveys do show that people who do switch
jobs more often to alternative employers, they do get paid more,
you know, as their careers progress. It's a great point
to negotiate your salary again and really go to where
your skills are valued.
S2 (15:34):
Yeah. And that's the number one thing. You want to
be valued. You want to be paid what you're worth.
And that's why we're here trying to tell you and
help you that you should be paid what you're worth.
So go out there, ask for a pay raise and
see how you go. Because as we've said a few times,
all you can do is ask.
S1 (15:49):
You should ask.
S2 (15:50):
And you should. And you should. Now onto Allison, a
question for the week. Our question this week is from Michelle,
who's sent in her question, and we really appreciate it.
So please send in all your questions. We would love
to hear them or read them. Michelle asks, How do
you get into the property investment market when prices are
still quite high? Should I wait until interest rates go
higher and prices fall? Jess, what do you think?
S1 (16:13):
Yeah, so this is trying to time the market, I think.
And that is something that lots of people would tell
you is very hard to do, trying to pick pick
the bottom. I mean, I think and I have written that,
you know, I may be interested in getting an investment
property one day. The thing about that is that as
interest rates are going up, we've got prices coming down.
(16:37):
It's always a double edged sword. So that's might be
great because prices might get cheaper. That is happening because
interest rates are going up. And when interest rates go up,
you can actually borrow less. So there's always swings and roundabouts.
My view is that if you have considered what your
alternative strategies are, whether you you know, if property investment
is going to fit into your goals and objectives, if
(16:59):
you've considered alternatives, if you've got, you know, your emergency
fund of 3 to 6 months sitting there, you do
know that you have some spare cash flow to invest.
Then just try not to sort of get too absorbed
in the noise of of property prices going up or down.
You know, what's really going to determine whether property pays
off as an investment for you is whether you borrow responsibly,
(17:21):
whether you buy a property, you know, that is, you know,
reasonably priced with good, you know, long term capital growth prospects,
you know. And that's a really individual question as to
which markets you're looking at buying into. So just doing
all your research, getting a handle on your budget and
realizing if you have the cash flow, if you do
have it, and if you're a long term investor, you're
(17:41):
planning to hold the property for decades, you know, it's
all going to come out in the wash. So my
tip is don't try to time the market.
S2 (17:49):
Yeah. And if you look at property prices in Australia,
they tend to go up.
S1 (17:53):
Over time, but they can over time they can dip.
S2 (17:56):
So it's I think timing the market is is difficult
to say.
S1 (18:00):
But be in it for the long, long term investment.
S2 (18:02):
Here. Yeah. Just around us off. What's your budget tip
for the week Geoff.
S1 (18:05):
Yes. So petrol prices have been bobbing around a lot
but if anyone is not using petrol price apps, you're
making me cry. That's really bad. There are price comparison
apps in every state, and when I fill up, you know,
it can be the difference of 40 or $0.60 per
litre for a station that is just across the road.
(18:26):
So just like letting the people know if you're in
New South Wales, your app is fuel check, download it now.
If you're in Victoria, the RACV has a site as well.
And for everyone else and including those states as well,
this national sites like GasBuddy, petrol, spy and motor mouth.
And I should also mention the 7-Eleven app, if you
(18:47):
want to download that, it has a price lock feature,
which means if you know that prices are about to
take off, you can duck into a 7-Eleven or you
just have to like drive past it and it scans
for a 7-Eleven in your area and you can lock
in a low price that you can then redeem over
a seven day period. And then you do need to
just check that the 7-Eleven price is still the cheaper.
So you go back to your original price check app,
(19:10):
but get on it.
S2 (19:12):
I love I use petrol spy all the time, you know.
I do, yeah. Yeah. Big fan. And there's this little
petrol station just around the corner from me, which is
like independent and has like three pumps and it is
the cheapest fuel. This is my secret for anyone who
lives in the like Melbourne's north. There's a little, little
petrol station in Ascot Vale. Cheapest fuel around this much.
That's my guarantee. That's my budget. Tip of the week.
(19:33):
All right, well, that's it. And don't forget, ask your
boss for a pay rise. Let us know how it goes, then.
US an email. Did it work? Are you now filthy rich?
If so, give me some. And we'll see you next week.
This episode of It All Adds Up was produced by
Cheech Chong. The information discussed is general in nature and
does not take into account your personal financial situation, goals
(19:55):
or objectives. You should always do your own research or
get professional advice before making any major financial decision. If
you like today's episode, it follow a new podcast app.
Leave a review and recommend it to all your friends.
You can also submit your listener questions in text or
audio form at. It all adds up at 9:00 today.
Thanks for listening.
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