March 31, 2025 • 36 mins
In this heartfelt episode of Just Life and Lemons, we sit down with Laura Whitehorn, a widow whose life was forever changed just a few months ago when her husband passed away from brain cancer. Together, we explore the raw realities of grief, the journey of discovering resilience, and the emotional challenges Laura has faced through this unimaginable loss.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apodjay production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Please note that this conversation is a big one. Will
be discussing grief, loss and mental health. If this isn't
the conversation for you today, that's okay. Please join us
on one of our other episodes. Welcome to Just Life
and Lemons. I'm Ash and I'm Kayla. This podcast is
all about embracing life's lemons and making them.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Into something beautiful.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
We've had a fair few lemons thrown it away, but
we're not letting that stop us.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Welcome back to another episode of Just Life and Lemons.
Today we're welcomed by Laura Whitehorn, a widow who's recently
lost her husband to brain cancer. Laura is navigating this
profound loss while raising her two young children. The folks
of today's episode is around resilience and how it can
get you through the lemons life throw your way. Thanks
for joining us, Laura, We're so grateful to have you here, right,
(01:00):
Thanks for having me. Let's start a little bit with
your journey. Can you tell us about your husband and
the time leading up to his diagnosis.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Yeah, so, Leah and I lived in Brisbane at the time.
He was a football coach up there. He was coaching
the Women's University of Queensland, and I had just had
our second little boy. We have Max, who's just turned
seven now and Jack who's four and a half. At
(01:28):
the time he was diagnosed, Jack had just turned one,
so I was just coming out of maternity leave and
I had just started a brand new job. I had
taken a redundancy because I worked for Virgin Australia, so
this was just during COVID times.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I'd just taken redundancy as starting a new job.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
And we woke up one day and he had been
very stressed with his job and he'd been having headaches
and that kind of thing. It got to the point
where a lot of people were leaving the job that
he was at, a lot of his friends and his
inner circle were leaving the company.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
And got to the point one day I.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Said, it's just not worth the misery that you're going through.
I'm starting work, so we'll be fine, we'll work it out.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
It's not worth being miserable. You'll get another job. Just leave.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
So he left and the headaches did actually subside for
some time, and then about a week after.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
It was the Anzac Day public holiday.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
He used to always get up early with our little
one year old and used to block off the hallway
with the couch so Jack couldn't come down and wake
up Max and I. We love to sleep in and
he had gotten up, but he was feeling unwell, so
he'd gotten up and he'd gotten Jack out of bed,
and he said he went to the bathroom and then
(02:46):
he just woke up in the bathroom and Jack was
yelling at him.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Because he was hungry and he wanted milk. So that's
what I woke up to.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
So suddenly Jack woke me up by yelling at Lee
and then I walked out and I was like, what's
going on? And his face had blood running down and
he was all out of sorts, and I said, what
has happened? And he said, I just woke up in
the bathroom. And I was like, what do you mean
you just woke up in the bathroom. What happened? He said,
I don't know. I was on the toilet and then
(03:17):
I just woke up on the floor. So it was
a bit weird. I thought he'd fallen, and I actually
was convinced he had concussion. So he was trying to
pour this bottle for Jack of milk and there's just
milk going everywhere all over the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
So I said, you go and lay down.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I will do this, and yeah, so he laid down,
and then I thought, oh wait, if they can cuss,
they're not supposed to lay down. But all he wanted
to do was go to sleep, and I thought, no,
we need to keep him awake. And it got to
the point where I started to call his family because
I couldn't take him to emergency. I could see that
there was something not right, so I called and his
(03:55):
brother came over. And then when we tried to get
him out of bed to go to the hospital, he
couldn't move his limbs. So we decided we'd get the ambulance,
and then in the ambulance he had another seizure, so
they could kind of determine that it was a seizure
that he'd had in the bathroom to start with. So
(04:16):
that was their first day of our three year journey
with brain cancer. I got the kids looked after, and
then we went in and they said they've found a
cyst or.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I kin't of remember the word they used now. It
was not a tumor.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
They can't call it a tumor at the time, but
they found something and you could see it clearly on
the CT and I just was not expecting.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
It at all.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
That must have been hard. The drive in to that
hospital must have been really scary time. You've obviously heard
enough news to know something's not good, but you're completely
in the dark until you're at a hospital. To then
receive that news, that would have been just a tidal
wave then of emotion.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I imagine, Yeah, it really was.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
He had been a bit out of it, and like
his memory was affected immediately, and especially because then he
had another seizure, his speech was a little bit affected
as well.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
His short term memory was like highly affected.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
But when I went into that room, he like recognized
me straight away and put his arms out to me,
and like it was it was just nice to know
that he remembered me, and like that he knew I
was there. Of course, it was like fear and nervous
and you're feeling all the emotions, but like I felt
(05:34):
quite guilty as well passing it off as concussion when
it was actually something much much worse.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
And so you've then received that diagnosis obviously lots of
shock and processing, but you then had to go home
to their kids.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah, So even in finding their mass on his brain,
he still stayed so positive. He was going on about
stories of people he knew that it had tumors that
were not cancerous in the brain and that they were
all fine now. And there was not one single second
(06:09):
that Lee ever let any thoughts of negativity creep in
for him. And it was a theme the whole way
through his journey that he never read any medical reports
or anything. He just wanted to think what he wanted
to think and remain in that positive mindset until you know,
it was confirmed otherwise, which he did end up in
(06:29):
hospital from that emergency. He stayed in hospital for a
week and they took a sample just through a needle,
and it still took three and a half weeks to
get a confirmed diagnosis after that. So for three and
a half weeks, I'd read the discharge report from emergency
and I could see what their concerns of what it
(06:50):
probably was. I read that and then I googled it,
which is probably the worst thing I could have done.
Love of Google, unfortunately for me. But from there I
spiraled for three and a half weeks. But I was
spiraling while he was so calm and collected, because he
just wasn't letting that even be a possibility to him.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So then when we did receive.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
The actual diagnosis, it was just like a lot of
talking and a lot of you know where they did
call it a tumor for the first time, and they
were saying things like grade three and like all these things,
and they never once mentioned cancer.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
And I felt so stupid.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
But when he'd finished talking, Lee was looking at me,
and I was looking at the surgeon, and I was like,
this is really stupid, but is this cancer? Like he'd
just given this big, long diagnosis, but it really meant
nothing to us because a lot of the time they
talk in like terms that you just have no idea
what they're saying.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
And it was really hard. That day was awful.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's difficult as well when there's a lot of this
medical jargon that you're trying to keep up with, and
in some ways I imagine you're sort of not eating
along and understanding what they're saying, and at the same
time you have no idea.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Yeah, I had googled a lot of it, so like
I had some idea, but like a lot of it
I didn't. And that's why I had to ask, like
at the end, like is this cancer because he didn't
actually ever say that hefce and Lee was just gobsmacked
because again, like he had stayed in that positive mindset.
So really for him, it was like a giant slapped
(08:25):
to the face. I slapped to the face for me,
but at least I was kind of expecting it in
a way. You think you're prepared, but you're never prepared really, And.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Then that was only just the start of your journey,
Like you said that then went on for three years.
How did you navigate that, especially being a mom at
the same time.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Yeah, So immediately from there, it was like ten thirty
in the morning, we went to the pub.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I just got to do what you gotta do. You
got to do what you got to do, and we
had a drink.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
The kids were at daycare, and then when I say
we had a drink, I had one.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And then we went home.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
We packed bags and we went to Gold Coast and
stead at the Gold Coast for like four days. We
just wanted to get away, have some time to kind
of process and time with the four of us. So
we got away and then that became quite a theme
of something that we did quite often, and we got
away as much as we could because his treatment started
(09:24):
very soon after that. They really launched him straight into treatment.
He had a lot of family in Adelaide. He grew
up in Adelaide and he'd always talked about Adelaide so fondly.
And I am originally from Melbourne, so I never saw
myself moving or living in Adelaide. I had just added
a new job in Brisbane when this happened, and they
(09:47):
were really great. They let me go part time straight away,
but I still was so torn. I was torn between work.
Then I had the kids, and then Lee couldn't drive anymore,
so that was another huge spanner in the works. Then
he had treatment like five days of the week, so
it was a lot to take on. And then one
day he had a lot of his family and friends
(10:08):
from Adelaide come up and visit.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
And one day I heard him talking with.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
His uncle just about Adelaide and how he missed it
and how he missed his friends, and you know, he
grew up here and it's a place that he wanted
his kids to grow up on the beach and where
he grew up.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
And I just thought to.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Myself, why are we in Brisbane and you know what's
holding us here?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
If he wants to be in Adelaide, let's go.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
So literally, as he was talking, I started looking up
removal USTs and then we just went We just came
here and it all worked out and it was you know,
rental crisis, but he had a friend that had a
rental that had just become available, so they helped us
out for about a year and a half and then
we bought a house and that was a huge thing
(10:52):
on Lee's bucket list that he wanted to achieve and
do in life and have a house and know that
the kids and I were always going to have somewhere
safe and settled to live.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
And so my dad did help us with that lot.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
But yeah, we had a house and he did get
to live in it for a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
So he was very toughed and very proud of that.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
So, Laura, obviously you've heard this diagnosis now the doctors
have you know, told you cancer. Obviously that really plays
into your mindset and I know that you've shared that.
You know, Lee was really positive and optimistic through that journey,
But were there times that you struggled or was it
that that was just the approach that you both had.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
It was definitely an approach that we both had. Personally.
I found it hard at times, but I really internalized
that because Lee was so positive, and you can't be
negative around someone who's just so outwardly positive all the time.
And he was the person going through it essentially, so
it wasn't my position to let anything negative kind of
(11:57):
affect us, and I wanted to protect his positivity as well.
So we definitely made the most of things, and once
we made the move to Adelaine as well, it was
an hour drive each way to the hospital, but we
would go via the beach and we would have coffee
every day and we would go out for breakfast every
single time.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
We would just make the most.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Of it, like we were spending as much time as
we could together and as a family.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
We laughed because we had this rule.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
It was kind of an unspoken rule, but it was
from diagnosis pretty much that we were not allowed to
cry in front of me, and Lee.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Make that pretty clear. So I'd cry in the shower
and I'd come out and I'd.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Be like, I'm fine, but I really like he knew
that I was, but I didn't want him to carry
the guilt of seeing how this affected anyone else, because
he needed to just focus on himself and getting well
and doing the right things for him and for his
health and to make him feel good and to not
(12:59):
ever diminish the hope that he had.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Out of the three years.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
And three days since diagnosis that we did have, we
got given two really good years.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
He was really good physical way.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Then the next six months was harder because we started
to get a few lots of bad news. Every time
we went into the hospital, every four weeks, every six weeks.
We were just constantly getting bad news, and that was
really hard because we had had two amazingly great years.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
You'd look at him and you would never ever know
that he was sick.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
You were just never know and he was just so
positive and happy and content with his life despite the diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Then when the bad news started rolling in.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
The no crying rule, it kind of lifted for me
because there was shock and things, and he would cry
and he couldn't cry without me, Like I was obviously
going to cry if I saw my husband crying. So
but still I'd learned and I had built more resilience
over those first two years taken so much on from
him that I was built to be that kind of
(14:10):
more of a rock for him that he could cry too.
I wouldn't fall in a heap because that wasn't going
to help him at the end of the day, he
could and I needed to be there for him if.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
He did, and he did a couple of times.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
But literally the next day we were both like, Okay,
it's a new day. We're going to start again where
you know where we've had out cry. We're all good now,
let's keep going. And that happened, yeah, quite a few times.
And then the last six months is a bit harder
because his health was getting worse, but he was still
wanting to go to the gym and have a trainer
(14:46):
and that kind of thing, Like he was still wanting
to be the best version of himself and he wasn't
wanting to sit around the house and do nothing. He
was never like that. He was never ever going to
be like that. But yeah, he just kept going every day.
He never wanted to lay in bed or if he
had a nap in the day, which is so fair
enough if you were on this treatment to have a
(15:07):
little rest, but he would be like, oh, it's just
because they didn't sleep well last night.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Oh, wake up too early.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
It's like, it's okay to say you're not feeling well
because your body is pumped full of drugs right now.
It's okay to not be okay. But he just never
wanted to let on that he was. And I see
the effect that that's had on our kids now. They're
so proud of him, and they look at him still,
even though and it was his biggest fear that they
(15:34):
saw him kind of diminish in the last few weeks.
It was pretty fast they did see that, but that's
actually not.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
What they're remembering.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
They're remembering like their strong dad, and they're so proud
of him, and they're so proud that he was their dad.
And the way that they talk about him, which she
was every single day and every single night. They're so
proud that that was their dad, which is just the
best thing. And I know that that's all he wanted,
even towards the last few days when he was ridden,
(16:05):
and we did do all of his end of life
care from home the way that he wanted it, so
that he could be around the kids and that kind
of thing, and we had a family friend visit about
probably two or three days before he passed, and he was.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Barely awake by then.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
She walked in and he was asleep, and I said,
you can go in and just see him, like he
might be able to hear you. It's up to you
what you want to say. And he woke up when
he heard her voice. And this has been someone in
his life since he was five years old, and she said, oh,
you know, I've been you know, I feel so bad.
I wanted to see you more and blah blah blah.
And he reached out to her and he said, we've
(16:42):
got to do dinner soon. And this was like two
three days before he passed, and he was still not
going to let anybody think that he was going, you know, like,
and that's not out of anything other than he just
wanted everyone to be okay and happy and positive the
(17:02):
way that he was. So I really that moment like
that is etched in my mind that he was like.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Let's do dinner. Suits that was him in a nutshell.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
So if that's one of the last things that he's said,
then I'm just so.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Proud of him. Wow, that's so special. Thank you for
sharing that with us.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
I guess today we're really focusing on the topic around resilience,
and I guess for me that the definition with that
is knowing that you're the only one who has the
power and the responsibility to pick yourself back up. At
what point in your journey, Laura, did you really come
across resilience or found that you had to apply that
into this situation.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
There was a few times, definitely early on, when it
was like a huge shock and I didn't know anyone
who had been through this. You have support, you might
feel supported by no one is in the position that
you're in, and just like no one's in the position
leads in that's a different thing as well. But you
need to be the strong person. And I think that
(18:03):
I built resilience along the way. I don't necessarily look
at myself three years ago, three and a half years
ago now and say I was resilient burst up. I
don't think that, but I definitely built resilience along the way,
And especially in that last year. You don't realize you're
building it as you are becoming more resilient. I don't
(18:24):
think that it's something that you're quite aware of. You
just when the things get really hard or when you
do get served with like terrible news, that's when you're
more aware that, yeah, I can get through this, and
just having the mindset of I can get through this,
we can do this, We're going to keep going, that's
when you.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Realize that you're building resilience.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I just feel like if I was with someone who
didn't want to continue the way that he've just had
such determination to continue, maybe I wouldn't have built so
much resilience. But he was just so determined, and I
was just determined alongside him.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I really resonate with you're saying around the building of
the resilience. You know, my loss and losing that was
very different in that it was instant loss for me.
I was really thrust into a space of survival. And
you know, not long after Matt passed, you know, our
triplets were born prematurely, So I'm then a new mum,
(19:27):
first time mum, two triplets who have been born prematurely,
so spending a lot of time in NKU and a
lot of fear and stress that comes with that environment,
just in isolation, let alone all of the layers that
I was trying to get my head around. So I
really felt like I was in that survival space of
just getting through the day. And I actually saw a
video recently just on Instagram where another widow was talking
(19:50):
about grief and talking about you know that strength and resilience,
and what she said was that it doesn't mean that
you're not tired, it doesn't mean that you're not in pain,
it doesn't mean that you're not exhausted. It just means
you have the strength to keep going. Yeah, and particularly
what you said Laura around that you know you were
doing it alongside Lee, and maybe you relate to this.
(20:12):
I feel like I was doing it format firstly. Secondly,
I was doing it for our kids, and then I
didn't even think that I was doing it for myself.
For many years, I've probably only ever thought about that.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Now.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I think that that plays a part in it as well.
And initially you're in that real survival shock, etc. Before
you even start thinking about those words of strength and
resilience coming back into your mindset.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah, you just do what has to be done, and
there's just no questions about it.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
You just do it because that's what has to be done.
I feel.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
My sister said to me after Lee had passed a
few weeks later, she's like, I just don't know how
you're doing it. I just don't know how. You haven't
had a single day where you haven't got out of bed.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And I was like, have you met my youngest child?
Like he wouldn't have no choice. He wakes me up a.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Six forty five with his demands fort he once for breakfast.
It's like blackberries and blueberries today, Mum, and I want
a ham cheese toasty and I get up and I
do it because I'm like, I'm thankful for him, and
I'm thankful for the kids. And again, like every situation
is different, but I actually think that for me, having
the kids has helped me so much, like so incredibly much,
(21:27):
because you want to show up for them, and you
need to show up for them, and you trying to
show them what strength looks like, even though they might
not realize it now, but down the track they're going to.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Be like, whoa, you know, we never really ever saw
you break down or.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Anything like that. So although we do cry together, and
I'm trying to also promote crying in a way because
I was a bit worried that my oldest telling them
was probably one of the worst moments of my entire life.
Hands down, it just was the worst day of my
life that day. But my oldest he cried. The next day.
(22:04):
I found him crying under his blanket and then he
just hasn't cried since. And I have had conversations with
him where I'm like, crying is okay, Like if you
feel sad or anything, then you can cry.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
And I do get Reikie done quite frequently.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
At the moment. That's like my saving grace. Where I
said to her, I'm so worried about the kids, like
I just want to know that they're okay, and she said,
just because they're not crying, that you don't have to
cry to be processing grief. So they're good because they're
talking about it and they feel safe with you to
talk about it, so that's really important for them.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Just continue doing what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
So yeah, I have to continue getting up and making
Jackie's gourmet breakfast and.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
You know, just being there for them and whatever they
need from this.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I think you're right. I've certainly felt that. As demanding
and tiring as it is, it's also been such a
blessing to have the kids. They have been a reason
to get up and like I said, for me, I
feel like I'm to doing it for Matt and I'm
doing it for them, and I don't want them to
see sad mummy, you know, like you, Yes, I definitely cry,
(23:12):
and we definitely have our moments, but I also don't
want to be sad all the time.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
There is joy and we are here.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Like I always think to myself, I am here and
it's like the greatest privilege and joy to be a mum,
as hard as it is, and particularly in these circumstances,
to now find myself as a solo mum, which I
never expected due to these circumstances, of course.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
But.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I get to see their smiles, I get to hug them,
and I get to share in their childhood and creating
their memories. I don't want their memories of their family life,
or their childhood, or even their connection with Matt to
be one of sadness. Yeah, of course, emotion plays a part,
and we absolutely want our children to learn that and
(23:57):
to have that safe space. We are here to provide
them and do our best to give them this joyful
life and for ourselves to have a joyful life life
And for me personally, my God that's heartbreaking. And yeah,
I guess it's so emotional thinking about it because I'm
just devastated beyond belief, and i feel so grateful that
(24:19):
I've got them because they are half Matt, so in
a way, he's still with me. And I don't know
if you feel the same with your kids. But you know,
we've got a long journey ahead with our kids. You know,
we've all got kids, and this is not a moment
right now. This will stay with us forever. But also
it's a great joy, So that resilience and showing up
And it doesn't mean that showing up is easy, because
(24:40):
my god, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
That's hard and it's exhausting.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, and we do it because of the love.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Yeah, I think like Lee just they were his pride
and joy and they meant everything to him.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So I know how much he would just give to
be here.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
But I do think that he's still around, and I'm
trying to teach the kids that. Like we went to
the beach the other afternoon and Max came back with
this white feather and I was.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Like, ah, and then I said to him, you know
that's a sign from Dad.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
He was like what, And I said, yeah, that's what
some people like to believe that if you find white feathers,
then that means that someone you love in heaven has
sent you that. And I opened his school bag the
other day and he had two white feathers in his
school bag and I was like, oh, now he's collecting
white feathers. But he's just doing it, you know, quietly,
and I could just imagine him, you know, being like, oh,
(25:36):
my Dad sent me this. They know that he's still around.
And Jack, every night he wants to light this candle
and the candle goes crazy whenever we talk about Lee,
so they know he's still here. And I mean, I
find bedtimes the hardest bed times are when I cry,
and because it's dark, you know, I think that they
don't know, but I do wonder.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
If they do.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
But especially with Jack, he talks about him all the time,
and he always says I miss my dad, and I'm like, yeah,
me too, Like I just don't know how to make
it better, and I want to make it better, but
I can't. So I just need you to know that
I'm feeling the same feelings as you. But yeah, when
the candle goes crazy, he's like, oh, Dad's here, So
(26:17):
I just like them knowing and still feeling the comfort
of Lee and Lee's spirit, and that's something that they'll
have forever. And Lee had a podcast and he actually
said in one episode of it, he said, I just
hope that I have done enough to have an impact.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Especially on my oldest child.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
And he's such a kind, sweet, sensitive boy that I
just hope that he remembers me and some of the
lessons that I've been here to teach him. And some
people say to you, and I know it comes from
a good space. It's a very hard thing to hear
from someone like, oh, they're young, they might not remember.
And I'm like, that is the opposite of what we're
(26:58):
trying to achieve. So you know, that's really hard to think.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
In that mindset. We want to.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Remember him, We want to remember everything about him.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
So yeah, we're trying to do the opposite to that.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
But your kids do, right, Yeah, they do, and they're
so proud. And I do find bad times the hardest.
So when they talk about him and me too.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I find the bedtime is the hardest because it's you know,
tucking them into bed and saying, you know, I love
you and it's so obvious that Matt is missing from that.
It's such a special to me. Every family is different,
they have different special things. But I absolutely agree that
that bedtime and tucking the kids in and reminding them
(27:43):
that you love them is just the hardest for me.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
We often discuss these big moments that have to be
around resilience, but it really is just the day to
day things that happen as well, you know, like the
bedtimes and the school drop offs, and the milestones and
the birthdays and the Christmas. You know, there's just so
many things. How have you overcome these day to day
challenges for yourself and for your kids?
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Oh, I'm finding it really hard now. So after he passed,
I had so much to do, and you know, the
admin that comes with the death of your husband or
your partner is insane, and I think that it's one
of the most underestimated things that nobody talks about.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
There is so much to do, so much, and you're
in such a.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Bad way that you're like, how can I be responsible
for all of this? But I worked my way through it,
but it was kind of a distraction for me at
the same time, Like it actually I cried every day,
but like I didn't actually.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Let myself feel and give myself time.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
And I think at the four month mark I took
a real spiral. I really did. I just took a
real spiral. And it was around maybe around Father's Day.
That was pretty much our first milestone. I actually said
to them, do you want to go away? Do you
want to go to Queensland? And my dad has a
house up there. I was like, do you want to
go to Grandpas's house because we can and then you
(29:12):
don't have to be at school and hear about Father's
Day and do all the craft and hard things. And
they were like, we want to do craft. They looked
at me like I was insane, and I.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
Was like, I thought you would want to go on
a holiday, but okay, And then I just that was
one of the moments where I'm like, wow, kids are
so much more resilient than adults, so.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Much more resilient than adults, and I was trying to
protect them, but maybe I was over protecting them in
a way. But it was our first milestone, so I
was all stressed about it. And Jack especially does get
a little bit upset. It's his first time at school,
and I just was really worried about how it would go,
but it actually went fine. And then we just had
(29:53):
Max's birthday, and I really struggled with Max's birthday because
I know Facebook memories were coming up from you know,
this time a year ago, and Lee was pretty good,
just go how can so much change? And I know
how much he would want to be here and how
proud he was, and I really struggled with a birthday.
(30:15):
We're just about to come up to our wedding anniversary
as well, so I really don't know what I'm going.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
To do that day, but yeah, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
It's so overwhelming, and you're so fresh in your grief,
you know, only a few months. You know, I myself
in four years in Kayla five and even after those
few years, I have to say, and you know, I
feel sort of bad saying this, but there are elements
that don't get easier. And there's a lot of you know,
quotes out there or cliches that say, oh time heels, Sorry,
(30:47):
that's bullshit. Everyone is unique, and there are things for
me that absolutely have not got easier, and there's some
that have got significantly harder.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I think that the resilience.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Part of it is like it's not a linear line,
and it's not we just don't become resilient and then.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
We hold that title.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
There's pressures of honoring our husband, you know, and for ourselves,
for them, and for our children. There's the reality of
maintaining a house and paying bills, and you know, there
are so many layers, and yes, those milestones are incredibly
painful and it's hard I find as well, like anticipating
(31:24):
the milestones. But it's every single day. And that's what
a lot of people don't see. Like everyone knows that
Father's Day is coming up, and it's that day is
hard because it's also the advertising is everywhere, like it
is in your case, and it's so painful. And what
other people don't see is that every single day and
the challenges and you know, do you find that there
(31:45):
are things just in your standard routine that are hard.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
Yeah, And some people are listening might laugh at this.
Lee did all the cooking. He just loved the kitchen
and he cooked all the time, to the point where
if I wanted to, he would stand behind me and
tell me I was doing everything wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
God be like you do it?
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Then you know, so even in that, like I was
making Max's birthday cake, well I wasn't really making it.
I bought sponge from Woollies. I was icing it, and
I was trying to whip cream. It's the stupidest thing,
but this is this Sometimes it is the most simple things.
I was trying to whip cream and it was so runny,
and I was like, I miss him telling me what
(32:24):
to do and how to fix this.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And I was like, should I have listened more or like,
you know, like what was it that he would tell
me to add?
Speaker 4 (32:33):
I know there was something that he would tell me
to add, but I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
And I just I missed him in that way.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
And then there's school drop offs is a huge one
for us because we did it every day, every single day,
would do it together, and even when he was becoming
more immobile and he was walking really slowly, would walk
in and if we accidentally got ahead of him, Max
would always run back and hold his hand and be like,
it's okay, Dad, I've got you. I always remember that
(33:02):
walking through those very gates, like literally every day I
run that through my head because we were lucky enough
to do so much of those things together.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Towards the end.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Yeah, I think you touched on that really well. You know,
you get to a point and our journeys are very similar.
But I think prior to this lemon, for me, you know,
I don't think I had a clue what resilience was.
I don't think if someone had asked me what's resilience,
I don't think I could articulate it like I can now.
Have you found any particular practices or routines that you
(33:34):
do day to day now to help maintain your strength.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Yes, but I feel like, you know, we're about to
come up to six months, and I do feel like
I'm only just finding them now. Like you know, I
used to go to the gym and that kind of thing,
but that really took a big back seat when you know,
things got worse and I never wanted to leave him
home by himself and.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
So I think I let my house take a back
seat for a while. I'm just trying now, and it
might sound so small and mundane, but like I take
magnesium in the morning, and I have my greens every morning,
and I try and go for a walk every single day.
That's what I'm focused on and That's what I'm finding
(34:19):
clears my mind, and I have an appreciation of where
I live. I never saw myself living here, but where
you know, one hundred meters off the beach, and this
is where Lee wanted the kids to grow up. I
love it here, so we're obviously meant to be here.
And I get to walk on the beach every single day.
That's as far as I've gotten with my you know,
(34:40):
looking after myself, trying to get myself back. But I'm
actually really proud of myself if I even just have
my magnesium.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
In the morning. To be honest, it sounds so stupid,
but it's just a little thing.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
It really, Yeah, agreed, and that is actually huge. To
do that again and to reprioritize and go, this is
what I need for me is actually a massive step.
And that's right. If you only do that one thing, amazing.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
I can do that because the kids are at school,
but on school holidays it was a lot harder. But
I do have a treadmill, and I'm very lucky that
my youngest son is a big swiftie. So he goes
on my exercise bike and I go on the treadmill
and we watch an hour of the ear's tour, and
that's what we did nearly every day on the holidays,
just so I could get my steps in trying to
(35:28):
remember myself and my health.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, Laura, thank you so much for sharing your story
and how far you've come. Yeah, we see the resilience
and we know it because we're living it sort of
in parallel with you. So thank you again for sharing
and coming on our podcast today.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
That's okay. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
It really takes courage to speak about these experiences, and
we really appreciate you being here. Resilience doesn't have to
mean you've got your life perfectly together. It's about climbing
those mountains, trying not to fall off the edge and
doing it with dignity and grace.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
And we're hear you say, are in the same position,
and we're here.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
It's like the.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Worst community to be a part of, but so supportive, yes,
and we've got it so supportive.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
If you loved this episode, please don't keep it a secret,
Share it with a friend on social media and tag
us at Just Life and Lemons. Please click the follow
button and leave us a review. Just Life and Lemons
is not a mental health service or a substitute for
professional mental health advice, treatment, or assessment. Any conversations in
this podcast are general in nature. If you are struggling,
(36:41):
please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on one
three one one four
Apodjay production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Please note that this conversation is a big one. Will
be discussing grief, loss and mental health. If this isn't
the conversation for you today, that's okay. Please join us
on one of our other episodes. Welcome to Just Life
and Lemons. I'm Ash and I'm Kayla. This podcast is
all about embracing life's lemons and making them.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Into something beautiful.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
We've had a fair few lemons thrown it away, but
we're not letting that stop us.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Welcome back to another episode of Just Life and Lemons.
Today we're welcomed by Laura Whitehorn, a widow who's recently
lost her husband to brain cancer. Laura is navigating this
profound loss while raising her two young children. The folks
of today's episode is around resilience and how it can
get you through the lemons life throw your way. Thanks
for joining us, Laura, We're so grateful to have you here, right,
(01:00):
Thanks for having me. Let's start a little bit with
your journey. Can you tell us about your husband and
the time leading up to his diagnosis.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Yeah, so, Leah and I lived in Brisbane at the time.
He was a football coach up there. He was coaching
the Women's University of Queensland, and I had just had
our second little boy. We have Max, who's just turned
seven now and Jack who's four and a half. At
(01:28):
the time he was diagnosed, Jack had just turned one,
so I was just coming out of maternity leave and
I had just started a brand new job. I had
taken a redundancy because I worked for Virgin Australia, so
this was just during COVID times.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I'd just taken redundancy as starting a new job.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
And we woke up one day and he had been
very stressed with his job and he'd been having headaches
and that kind of thing. It got to the point
where a lot of people were leaving the job that
he was at, a lot of his friends and his
inner circle were leaving the company.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
And got to the point one day I.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Said, it's just not worth the misery that you're going through.
I'm starting work, so we'll be fine, we'll work it out.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
It's not worth being miserable. You'll get another job. Just leave.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
So he left and the headaches did actually subside for
some time, and then about a week after.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
It was the Anzac Day public holiday.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
He used to always get up early with our little
one year old and used to block off the hallway
with the couch so Jack couldn't come down and wake
up Max and I. We love to sleep in and
he had gotten up, but he was feeling unwell, so
he'd gotten up and he'd gotten Jack out of bed,
and he said he went to the bathroom and then
(02:46):
he just woke up in the bathroom and Jack was
yelling at him.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Because he was hungry and he wanted milk. So that's
what I woke up to.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
So suddenly Jack woke me up by yelling at Lee
and then I walked out and I was like, what's
going on? And his face had blood running down and
he was all out of sorts, and I said, what
has happened? And he said, I just woke up in
the bathroom. And I was like, what do you mean
you just woke up in the bathroom. What happened? He said,
I don't know. I was on the toilet and then
(03:17):
I just woke up on the floor. So it was
a bit weird. I thought he'd fallen, and I actually
was convinced he had concussion. So he was trying to
pour this bottle for Jack of milk and there's just
milk going everywhere all over the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
So I said, you go and lay down.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I will do this, and yeah, so he laid down,
and then I thought, oh wait, if they can cuss,
they're not supposed to lay down. But all he wanted
to do was go to sleep, and I thought, no,
we need to keep him awake. And it got to
the point where I started to call his family because
I couldn't take him to emergency. I could see that
there was something not right, so I called and his
(03:55):
brother came over. And then when we tried to get
him out of bed to go to the hospital, he
couldn't move his limbs. So we decided we'd get the ambulance,
and then in the ambulance he had another seizure, so
they could kind of determine that it was a seizure
that he'd had in the bathroom to start with. So
(04:16):
that was their first day of our three year journey
with brain cancer. I got the kids looked after, and
then we went in and they said they've found a
cyst or.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I kin't of remember the word they used now. It
was not a tumor.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
They can't call it a tumor at the time, but
they found something and you could see it clearly on
the CT and I just was not expecting.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
It at all.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
That must have been hard. The drive in to that
hospital must have been really scary time. You've obviously heard
enough news to know something's not good, but you're completely
in the dark until you're at a hospital. To then
receive that news, that would have been just a tidal
wave then of emotion.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I imagine, Yeah, it really was.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
He had been a bit out of it, and like
his memory was affected immediately, and especially because then he
had another seizure, his speech was a little bit affected
as well.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
His short term memory was like highly affected.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
But when I went into that room, he like recognized
me straight away and put his arms out to me,
and like it was it was just nice to know
that he remembered me, and like that he knew I
was there. Of course, it was like fear and nervous
and you're feeling all the emotions, but like I felt
(05:34):
quite guilty as well passing it off as concussion when
it was actually something much much worse.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
And so you've then received that diagnosis obviously lots of
shock and processing, but you then had to go home
to their kids.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Yeah, So even in finding their mass on his brain,
he still stayed so positive. He was going on about
stories of people he knew that it had tumors that
were not cancerous in the brain and that they were
all fine now. And there was not one single second
(06:09):
that Lee ever let any thoughts of negativity creep in
for him. And it was a theme the whole way
through his journey that he never read any medical reports
or anything. He just wanted to think what he wanted
to think and remain in that positive mindset until you know,
it was confirmed otherwise, which he did end up in
(06:29):
hospital from that emergency. He stayed in hospital for a
week and they took a sample just through a needle,
and it still took three and a half weeks to
get a confirmed diagnosis after that. So for three and
a half weeks, I'd read the discharge report from emergency
and I could see what their concerns of what it
(06:50):
probably was. I read that and then I googled it,
which is probably the worst thing I could have done.
Love of Google, unfortunately for me. But from there I
spiraled for three and a half weeks. But I was
spiraling while he was so calm and collected, because he
just wasn't letting that even be a possibility to him.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So then when we did receive.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
The actual diagnosis, it was just like a lot of
talking and a lot of you know where they did
call it a tumor for the first time, and they
were saying things like grade three and like all these things,
and they never once mentioned cancer.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
And I felt so stupid.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
But when he'd finished talking, Lee was looking at me,
and I was looking at the surgeon, and I was like,
this is really stupid, but is this cancer? Like he'd
just given this big, long diagnosis, but it really meant
nothing to us because a lot of the time they
talk in like terms that you just have no idea
what they're saying.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
And it was really hard. That day was awful.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
It's difficult as well when there's a lot of this
medical jargon that you're trying to keep up with, and
in some ways I imagine you're sort of not eating
along and understanding what they're saying, and at the same
time you have no idea.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Yeah, I had googled a lot of it, so like
I had some idea, but like a lot of it
I didn't. And that's why I had to ask, like
at the end, like is this cancer because he didn't
actually ever say that hefce and Lee was just gobsmacked
because again, like he had stayed in that positive mindset.
So really for him, it was like a giant slapped
(08:25):
to the face. I slapped to the face for me,
but at least I was kind of expecting it in
a way. You think you're prepared, but you're never prepared really, And.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Then that was only just the start of your journey,
Like you said that then went on for three years.
How did you navigate that, especially being a mom at
the same time.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Yeah, So immediately from there, it was like ten thirty
in the morning, we went to the pub.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I just got to do what you gotta do. You
got to do what you got to do, and we
had a drink.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
The kids were at daycare, and then when I say
we had a drink, I had one.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
And then we went home.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
We packed bags and we went to Gold Coast and
stead at the Gold Coast for like four days. We
just wanted to get away, have some time to kind
of process and time with the four of us. So
we got away and then that became quite a theme
of something that we did quite often, and we got
away as much as we could because his treatment started
(09:24):
very soon after that. They really launched him straight into treatment.
He had a lot of family in Adelaide. He grew
up in Adelaide and he'd always talked about Adelaide so fondly.
And I am originally from Melbourne, so I never saw
myself moving or living in Adelaide. I had just added
a new job in Brisbane when this happened, and they
(09:47):
were really great. They let me go part time straight away,
but I still was so torn. I was torn between work.
Then I had the kids, and then Lee couldn't drive anymore,
so that was another huge spanner in the works. Then
he had treatment like five days of the week, so
it was a lot to take on. And then one
day he had a lot of his family and friends
(10:08):
from Adelaide come up and visit.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
And one day I heard him talking with.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
His uncle just about Adelaide and how he missed it
and how he missed his friends, and you know, he
grew up here and it's a place that he wanted
his kids to grow up on the beach and where
he grew up.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
And I just thought to.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Myself, why are we in Brisbane and you know what's
holding us here?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
If he wants to be in Adelaide, let's go.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
So literally, as he was talking, I started looking up
removal USTs and then we just went We just came
here and it all worked out and it was you know,
rental crisis, but he had a friend that had a
rental that had just become available, so they helped us
out for about a year and a half and then
we bought a house and that was a huge thing
(10:52):
on Lee's bucket list that he wanted to achieve and
do in life and have a house and know that
the kids and I were always going to have somewhere
safe and settled to live.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
And so my dad did help us with that lot.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
But yeah, we had a house and he did get
to live in it for a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
So he was very toughed and very proud of that.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
So, Laura, obviously you've heard this diagnosis now the doctors
have you know, told you cancer. Obviously that really plays
into your mindset and I know that you've shared that.
You know, Lee was really positive and optimistic through that journey,
But were there times that you struggled or was it
that that was just the approach that you both had.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
It was definitely an approach that we both had. Personally.
I found it hard at times, but I really internalized
that because Lee was so positive, and you can't be
negative around someone who's just so outwardly positive all the time.
And he was the person going through it essentially, so
it wasn't my position to let anything negative kind of
(11:57):
affect us, and I wanted to protect his positivity as well.
So we definitely made the most of things, and once
we made the move to Adelaine as well, it was
an hour drive each way to the hospital, but we
would go via the beach and we would have coffee
every day and we would go out for breakfast every
single time.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
We would just make the most.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Of it, like we were spending as much time as
we could together and as a family.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
We laughed because we had this rule.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
It was kind of an unspoken rule, but it was
from diagnosis pretty much that we were not allowed to
cry in front of me, and Lee.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Make that pretty clear. So I'd cry in the shower
and I'd come out and I'd.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Be like, I'm fine, but I really like he knew
that I was, but I didn't want him to carry
the guilt of seeing how this affected anyone else, because
he needed to just focus on himself and getting well
and doing the right things for him and for his
health and to make him feel good and to not
(12:59):
ever diminish the hope that he had.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Out of the three years.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
And three days since diagnosis that we did have, we
got given two really good years.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
He was really good physical way.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Then the next six months was harder because we started
to get a few lots of bad news. Every time
we went into the hospital, every four weeks, every six weeks.
We were just constantly getting bad news, and that was
really hard because we had had two amazingly great years.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
You'd look at him and you would never ever know
that he was sick.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
You were just never know and he was just so
positive and happy and content with his life despite the diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Then when the bad news started rolling in.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
The no crying rule, it kind of lifted for me
because there was shock and things, and he would cry
and he couldn't cry without me, Like I was obviously
going to cry if I saw my husband crying. So
but still I'd learned and I had built more resilience
over those first two years taken so much on from
him that I was built to be that kind of
(14:10):
more of a rock for him that he could cry too.
I wouldn't fall in a heap because that wasn't going
to help him at the end of the day, he
could and I needed to be there for him if.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
He did, and he did a couple of times.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
But literally the next day we were both like, Okay,
it's a new day. We're going to start again where
you know where we've had out cry. We're all good now,
let's keep going. And that happened, yeah, quite a few times.
And then the last six months is a bit harder
because his health was getting worse, but he was still
wanting to go to the gym and have a trainer
(14:46):
and that kind of thing, Like he was still wanting
to be the best version of himself and he wasn't
wanting to sit around the house and do nothing. He
was never like that. He was never ever going to
be like that. But yeah, he just kept going every day.
He never wanted to lay in bed or if he
had a nap in the day, which is so fair
enough if you were on this treatment to have a
(15:07):
little rest, but he would be like, oh, it's just
because they didn't sleep well last night.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Oh, wake up too early.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
It's like, it's okay to say you're not feeling well
because your body is pumped full of drugs right now.
It's okay to not be okay. But he just never
wanted to let on that he was. And I see
the effect that that's had on our kids now. They're
so proud of him, and they look at him still,
even though and it was his biggest fear that they
(15:34):
saw him kind of diminish in the last few weeks.
It was pretty fast they did see that, but that's
actually not.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
What they're remembering.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
They're remembering like their strong dad, and they're so proud
of him, and they're so proud that he was their dad.
And the way that they talk about him, which she
was every single day and every single night. They're so
proud that that was their dad, which is just the
best thing. And I know that that's all he wanted,
even towards the last few days when he was ridden,
(16:05):
and we did do all of his end of life
care from home the way that he wanted it, so
that he could be around the kids and that kind
of thing, and we had a family friend visit about
probably two or three days before he passed, and he was.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Barely awake by then.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
She walked in and he was asleep, and I said,
you can go in and just see him, like he
might be able to hear you. It's up to you
what you want to say. And he woke up when
he heard her voice. And this has been someone in
his life since he was five years old, and she said, oh,
you know, I've been you know, I feel so bad.
I wanted to see you more and blah blah blah.
And he reached out to her and he said, we've
(16:42):
got to do dinner soon. And this was like two
three days before he passed, and he was still not
going to let anybody think that he was going, you know, like,
and that's not out of anything other than he just
wanted everyone to be okay and happy and positive the
(17:02):
way that he was. So I really that moment like
that is etched in my mind that he was like.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Let's do dinner. Suits that was him in a nutshell.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
So if that's one of the last things that he's said,
then I'm just so.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Proud of him. Wow, that's so special. Thank you for
sharing that with us.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
I guess today we're really focusing on the topic around resilience,
and I guess for me that the definition with that
is knowing that you're the only one who has the
power and the responsibility to pick yourself back up. At
what point in your journey, Laura, did you really come
across resilience or found that you had to apply that
into this situation.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
There was a few times, definitely early on, when it
was like a huge shock and I didn't know anyone
who had been through this. You have support, you might
feel supported by no one is in the position that
you're in, and just like no one's in the position
leads in that's a different thing as well. But you
need to be the strong person. And I think that
(18:03):
I built resilience along the way. I don't necessarily look
at myself three years ago, three and a half years
ago now and say I was resilient burst up. I
don't think that, but I definitely built resilience along the way,
And especially in that last year. You don't realize you're
building it as you are becoming more resilient. I don't
(18:24):
think that it's something that you're quite aware of. You
just when the things get really hard or when you
do get served with like terrible news, that's when you're
more aware that, yeah, I can get through this, and
just having the mindset of I can get through this,
we can do this, We're going to keep going, that's
when you.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Realize that you're building resilience.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I just feel like if I was with someone who
didn't want to continue the way that he've just had
such determination to continue, maybe I wouldn't have built so
much resilience. But he was just so determined, and I
was just determined alongside him.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I really resonate with you're saying around the building of
the resilience. You know, my loss and losing that was
very different in that it was instant loss for me.
I was really thrust into a space of survival. And
you know, not long after Matt passed, you know, our
triplets were born prematurely, So I'm then a new mum,
(19:27):
first time mum, two triplets who have been born prematurely,
so spending a lot of time in NKU and a
lot of fear and stress that comes with that environment,
just in isolation, let alone all of the layers that
I was trying to get my head around. So I
really felt like I was in that survival space of
just getting through the day. And I actually saw a
video recently just on Instagram where another widow was talking
(19:50):
about grief and talking about you know that strength and resilience,
and what she said was that it doesn't mean that
you're not tired, it doesn't mean that you're not in pain,
it doesn't mean that you're not exhausted. It just means
you have the strength to keep going. Yeah, and particularly
what you said Laura around that you know you were
doing it alongside Lee, and maybe you relate to this.
(20:12):
I feel like I was doing it format firstly. Secondly,
I was doing it for our kids, and then I
didn't even think that I was doing it for myself.
For many years, I've probably only ever thought about that.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Now.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I think that that plays a part in it as well.
And initially you're in that real survival shock, etc. Before
you even start thinking about those words of strength and
resilience coming back into your mindset.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah, you just do what has to be done, and
there's just no questions about it.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
You just do it because that's what has to be done.
I feel.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
My sister said to me after Lee had passed a
few weeks later, she's like, I just don't know how
you're doing it. I just don't know how. You haven't
had a single day where you haven't got out of bed.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
And I was like, have you met my youngest child?
Like he wouldn't have no choice. He wakes me up a.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Six forty five with his demands fort he once for breakfast.
It's like blackberries and blueberries today, Mum, and I want
a ham cheese toasty and I get up and I
do it because I'm like, I'm thankful for him, and
I'm thankful for the kids. And again, like every situation
is different, but I actually think that for me, having
the kids has helped me so much, like so incredibly much,
(21:27):
because you want to show up for them, and you
need to show up for them, and you trying to
show them what strength looks like, even though they might
not realize it now, but down the track they're going to.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Be like, whoa, you know, we never really ever saw
you break down or.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Anything like that. So although we do cry together, and
I'm trying to also promote crying in a way because
I was a bit worried that my oldest telling them
was probably one of the worst moments of my entire life.
Hands down, it just was the worst day of my
life that day. But my oldest he cried. The next day.
(22:04):
I found him crying under his blanket and then he
just hasn't cried since. And I have had conversations with
him where I'm like, crying is okay, Like if you
feel sad or anything, then you can cry.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
And I do get Reikie done quite frequently.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
At the moment. That's like my saving grace. Where I
said to her, I'm so worried about the kids, like
I just want to know that they're okay, and she said,
just because they're not crying, that you don't have to
cry to be processing grief. So they're good because they're
talking about it and they feel safe with you to
talk about it, so that's really important for them.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Just continue doing what you're doing.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
So yeah, I have to continue getting up and making
Jackie's gourmet breakfast and.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
You know, just being there for them and whatever they
need from this.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I think you're right. I've certainly felt that. As demanding
and tiring as it is, it's also been such a
blessing to have the kids. They have been a reason
to get up and like I said, for me, I
feel like I'm to doing it for Matt and I'm
doing it for them, and I don't want them to
see sad mummy, you know, like you, Yes, I definitely cry,
(23:12):
and we definitely have our moments, but I also don't
want to be sad all the time.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
There is joy and we are here.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Like I always think to myself, I am here and
it's like the greatest privilege and joy to be a mum,
as hard as it is, and particularly in these circumstances,
to now find myself as a solo mum, which I
never expected due to these circumstances, of course.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
But.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I get to see their smiles, I get to hug them,
and I get to share in their childhood and creating
their memories. I don't want their memories of their family life,
or their childhood, or even their connection with Matt to
be one of sadness. Yeah, of course, emotion plays a part,
and we absolutely want our children to learn that and
(23:57):
to have that safe space. We are here to provide
them and do our best to give them this joyful
life and for ourselves to have a joyful life life
And for me personally, my God that's heartbreaking. And yeah,
I guess it's so emotional thinking about it because I'm
just devastated beyond belief, and i feel so grateful that
(24:19):
I've got them because they are half Matt, so in
a way, he's still with me. And I don't know
if you feel the same with your kids. But you know,
we've got a long journey ahead with our kids. You know,
we've all got kids, and this is not a moment
right now. This will stay with us forever. But also
it's a great joy, So that resilience and showing up
And it doesn't mean that showing up is easy, because
(24:40):
my god, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
That's hard and it's exhausting.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, and we do it because of the love.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Yeah, I think like Lee just they were his pride
and joy and they meant everything to him.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So I know how much he would just give to
be here.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
But I do think that he's still around, and I'm
trying to teach the kids that. Like we went to
the beach the other afternoon and Max came back with
this white feather and I was.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Like, ah, and then I said to him, you know
that's a sign from Dad.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
He was like what, And I said, yeah, that's what
some people like to believe that if you find white feathers,
then that means that someone you love in heaven has
sent you that. And I opened his school bag the
other day and he had two white feathers in his
school bag and I was like, oh, now he's collecting
white feathers. But he's just doing it, you know, quietly,
and I could just imagine him, you know, being like, oh,
(25:36):
my Dad sent me this. They know that he's still around.
And Jack, every night he wants to light this candle
and the candle goes crazy whenever we talk about Lee,
so they know he's still here. And I mean, I
find bedtimes the hardest bed times are when I cry,
and because it's dark, you know, I think that they
don't know, but I do wonder.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
If they do.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
But especially with Jack, he talks about him all the time,
and he always says I miss my dad, and I'm like, yeah,
me too, Like I just don't know how to make
it better, and I want to make it better, but
I can't. So I just need you to know that
I'm feeling the same feelings as you. But yeah, when
the candle goes crazy, he's like, oh, Dad's here, So
(26:17):
I just like them knowing and still feeling the comfort
of Lee and Lee's spirit, and that's something that they'll
have forever. And Lee had a podcast and he actually
said in one episode of it, he said, I just
hope that I have done enough to have an impact.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Especially on my oldest child.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
And he's such a kind, sweet, sensitive boy that I
just hope that he remembers me and some of the
lessons that I've been here to teach him. And some
people say to you, and I know it comes from
a good space. It's a very hard thing to hear
from someone like, oh, they're young, they might not remember.
And I'm like, that is the opposite of what we're
(26:58):
trying to achieve. So you know, that's really hard to think.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
In that mindset. We want to.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
Remember him, We want to remember everything about him.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
So yeah, we're trying to do the opposite to that.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
But your kids do, right, Yeah, they do, and they're
so proud. And I do find bad times the hardest.
So when they talk about him and me too.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I find the bedtime is the hardest because it's you know,
tucking them into bed and saying, you know, I love
you and it's so obvious that Matt is missing from that.
It's such a special to me. Every family is different,
they have different special things. But I absolutely agree that
that bedtime and tucking the kids in and reminding them
(27:43):
that you love them is just the hardest for me.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
We often discuss these big moments that have to be
around resilience, but it really is just the day to
day things that happen as well, you know, like the
bedtimes and the school drop offs, and the milestones and
the birthdays and the Christmas. You know, there's just so
many things. How have you overcome these day to day
challenges for yourself and for your kids?
Speaker 4 (28:10):
Oh, I'm finding it really hard now. So after he passed,
I had so much to do, and you know, the
admin that comes with the death of your husband or
your partner is insane, and I think that it's one
of the most underestimated things that nobody talks about.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
There is so much to do, so much, and you're
in such a.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Bad way that you're like, how can I be responsible
for all of this? But I worked my way through it,
but it was kind of a distraction for me at
the same time, Like it actually I cried every day,
but like I didn't actually.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Let myself feel and give myself time.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
And I think at the four month mark I took
a real spiral. I really did. I just took a
real spiral. And it was around maybe around Father's Day.
That was pretty much our first milestone. I actually said
to them, do you want to go away? Do you
want to go to Queensland? And my dad has a
house up there. I was like, do you want to
go to Grandpas's house because we can and then you
(29:12):
don't have to be at school and hear about Father's
Day and do all the craft and hard things. And
they were like, we want to do craft. They looked
at me like I was insane, and I.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
Was like, I thought you would want to go on
a holiday, but okay, And then I just that was
one of the moments where I'm like, wow, kids are
so much more resilient than adults, so.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Much more resilient than adults, and I was trying to
protect them, but maybe I was over protecting them in
a way. But it was our first milestone, so I
was all stressed about it. And Jack especially does get
a little bit upset. It's his first time at school,
and I just was really worried about how it would go,
but it actually went fine. And then we just had
(29:53):
Max's birthday, and I really struggled with Max's birthday because
I know Facebook memories were coming up from you know,
this time a year ago, and Lee was pretty good,
just go how can so much change? And I know
how much he would want to be here and how
proud he was, and I really struggled with a birthday.
(30:15):
We're just about to come up to our wedding anniversary
as well, so I really don't know what I'm going.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
To do that day, but yeah, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
It's so overwhelming, and you're so fresh in your grief,
you know, only a few months. You know, I myself
in four years in Kayla five and even after those
few years, I have to say, and you know, I
feel sort of bad saying this, but there are elements
that don't get easier. And there's a lot of you know,
quotes out there or cliches that say, oh time heels, Sorry,
(30:47):
that's bullshit. Everyone is unique, and there are things for
me that absolutely have not got easier, and there's some
that have got significantly harder.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I think that the resilience.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Part of it is like it's not a linear line,
and it's not we just don't become resilient and then.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
We hold that title.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
There's pressures of honoring our husband, you know, and for ourselves,
for them, and for our children. There's the reality of
maintaining a house and paying bills, and you know, there
are so many layers, and yes, those milestones are incredibly
painful and it's hard I find as well, like anticipating
(31:24):
the milestones. But it's every single day. And that's what
a lot of people don't see. Like everyone knows that
Father's Day is coming up, and it's that day is
hard because it's also the advertising is everywhere, like it
is in your case, and it's so painful. And what
other people don't see is that every single day and
the challenges and you know, do you find that there
(31:45):
are things just in your standard routine that are hard.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
Yeah, And some people are listening might laugh at this.
Lee did all the cooking. He just loved the kitchen
and he cooked all the time, to the point where
if I wanted to, he would stand behind me and
tell me I was doing everything wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
God be like you do it?
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Then you know, so even in that, like I was
making Max's birthday cake, well I wasn't really making it.
I bought sponge from Woollies. I was icing it, and
I was trying to whip cream. It's the stupidest thing,
but this is this Sometimes it is the most simple things.
I was trying to whip cream and it was so runny,
and I was like, I miss him telling me what
(32:24):
to do and how to fix this.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And I was like, should I have listened more or like,
you know, like what was it that he would tell
me to add?
Speaker 4 (32:33):
I know there was something that he would tell me
to add, but I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
And I just I missed him in that way.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
And then there's school drop offs is a huge one
for us because we did it every day, every single day,
would do it together, and even when he was becoming
more immobile and he was walking really slowly, would walk
in and if we accidentally got ahead of him, Max
would always run back and hold his hand and be like,
it's okay, Dad, I've got you. I always remember that
(33:02):
walking through those very gates, like literally every day I
run that through my head because we were lucky enough
to do so much of those things together.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Towards the end.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Yeah, I think you touched on that really well. You know,
you get to a point and our journeys are very similar.
But I think prior to this lemon, for me, you know,
I don't think I had a clue what resilience was.
I don't think if someone had asked me what's resilience,
I don't think I could articulate it like I can now.
Have you found any particular practices or routines that you
(33:34):
do day to day now to help maintain your strength.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Yes, but I feel like, you know, we're about to
come up to six months, and I do feel like
I'm only just finding them now. Like you know, I
used to go to the gym and that kind of thing,
but that really took a big back seat when you know,
things got worse and I never wanted to leave him
home by himself and.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
So I think I let my house take a back
seat for a while. I'm just trying now, and it
might sound so small and mundane, but like I take
magnesium in the morning, and I have my greens every morning,
and I try and go for a walk every single day.
That's what I'm focused on and That's what I'm finding
(34:19):
clears my mind, and I have an appreciation of where
I live. I never saw myself living here, but where
you know, one hundred meters off the beach, and this
is where Lee wanted the kids to grow up. I
love it here, so we're obviously meant to be here.
And I get to walk on the beach every single day.
That's as far as I've gotten with my you know,
(34:40):
looking after myself, trying to get myself back. But I'm
actually really proud of myself if I even just have
my magnesium.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
In the morning. To be honest, it sounds so stupid,
but it's just a little thing.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
It really, Yeah, agreed, and that is actually huge. To
do that again and to reprioritize and go, this is
what I need for me is actually a massive step.
And that's right. If you only do that one thing, amazing.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
I can do that because the kids are at school,
but on school holidays it was a lot harder. But
I do have a treadmill, and I'm very lucky that
my youngest son is a big swiftie. So he goes
on my exercise bike and I go on the treadmill
and we watch an hour of the ear's tour, and
that's what we did nearly every day on the holidays,
just so I could get my steps in trying to
(35:28):
remember myself and my health.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, Laura, thank you so much for sharing your story
and how far you've come. Yeah, we see the resilience
and we know it because we're living it sort of
in parallel with you. So thank you again for sharing
and coming on our podcast today.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
That's okay. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
It really takes courage to speak about these experiences, and
we really appreciate you being here. Resilience doesn't have to
mean you've got your life perfectly together. It's about climbing
those mountains, trying not to fall off the edge and
doing it with dignity and grace.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
And we're hear you say, are in the same position,
and we're here.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
It's like the.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Worst community to be a part of, but so supportive, yes,
and we've got it so supportive.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
If you loved this episode, please don't keep it a secret,
Share it with a friend on social media and tag
us at Just Life and Lemons. Please click the follow
button and leave us a review. Just Life and Lemons
is not a mental health service or a substitute for
professional mental health advice, treatment, or assessment. Any conversations in
this podcast are general in nature. If you are struggling,
(36:41):
please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on one
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