May 6, 2025 • 27 mins
Can Christians be Rockstars? Are we even allowed to be ‘cool’? Funny? ACCEPTED by society? Shouldn’t we ‘hate’ the world? Yes, and no. Well, this week on KINGDOM & CULTURE, thankfully, we are joined by somebody who can help us integrate these delicate matters of faith in culture: Bodie is a local church worship leader, dad of 3, husband and most recently, an up-and-coming Christian music artist and was in the final TWO on The Voice Season 22! We hope you’ll join us for this faith-centered perspective on music and culture!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm excited to welcome you to the Kingdom and Culture
podcast here on Kwave. I'm your host, Mike Whitford. Just
a little bit about me, I am a husband, dad
of 3, and a Labradoodle. I've been a pastor for
over 25 years, and I worked in the United States
Senate way back in the day. I happen to be
(00:20):
a Dodger fan. Love all things, Lord of the Rings
and or Marvel slash Captain.
America, but I digress on that. Here on the Kingdom
and Culture podcast, we are going to go into the
crossroads of Christian faith and culture, and I hope that
I can help you find answers to questions you didn't
(00:40):
even know you had. We're gonna have some amazing guests
who will help us do that. So join us every
week for the Kingdom and Culture podcast here on Kwave.
(01:03):
Today we have one of the coolest people on the planet,
and I'm using the word cool because I'm from Gen X. So, uh,
but this guy's cool. What's the words we use today?
He's got Riz. I don't know what else to say.
This guy's awesome. This guy is Bodie and, uh, Body,
if maybe somebody you're like, oh, I know that guy,
but he has been on The Voice season 22. Easy
(01:26):
to remember, and he's not gonna talk today. So I'm
gonna do all this talking for him. He's gonna no
I'm kidding, I'm
Speaker 2 (01:30):
kidding. You're waiting for the intro. I was waiting.
Because you're on
Speaker 1 (01:33):
camera, bro, say hi to everybody. And remember we're, we're
laid back here. We're chill, we're having fun. We're conversing,
we're being ourselves, but, uh, to the glory of God,
come on, uh, but, uh, Body has been on the
voice he listen.
If if there was ever a time to be 2,
this was the time because there's a lot of cool
things as to why he got anyway, go on season
(01:56):
22 online somewhere and you'll find Boie there. But more
than that, Bodie is a great guy. He loves Jesus. Uh,
he has recently unleashed his own album and I'm gonna
let him do the introduction of that because I don't
want to mess anything up. But I know, uh, when
I was listening on another radio station.
Uh, uh, and I heard Body show up. I didn't
(02:17):
even know he was getting released on radio. I'm like, dude,
I know that guy. It's like I feel like Buddy
the Elf. Santa, I know him. I know Body. So
I'm so excited that you're here. But dude, why don't you, um,
tell us a little bit about what God's doing, uh,
the murder my ego.
Tour, uh, your music and then we're gonna get a
little bit in the family stuff because you are a
dad of three. You, your wife's awesome. You guys got
(02:40):
creativity like flowing out your veins, just amazing stuff going on.
So go
Speaker 2 (02:45):
ahead I appreciate that. Yeah, um, my name is Body.
I make music and.
Yeah, I put out an EP, uh, last year, and
then we just put out a follow up remix EP
a couple weeks ago and then I'm working on some
new music that's gonna come out here pretty soon, just
about ready to announce that and yeah, as you said,
going on tour in May, super excited and guys just
(03:06):
doing done a lot of really, really incredible things that
I couldn't have even imagined since coming off of the Voice.
It's been really special, yeah,
Speaker 1 (03:13):
for sure.
Um, all right, really pause on the career stuff because
we'll get back to that and you're also gonna get
us a little treat of musical talent and abilities, which
will
be great.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
We'll see. Yeah, it'll be great
Speaker 1 (03:26):
if
Speaker 2 (03:26):
we're
Speaker 1 (03:26):
lucky. I hope so. very lucky. Let's be very lucky.
All right, anyway, uh, so tell us about, yeah, you
got 3 kids, uh, how old are they? What's dad
life like, husband life and ministry life like?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Um, I met my wife at Vanguard. I'm a Vanguard alum, and, uh, yeah,
we love Vanguard and, uh, met her freshman year. She
didn't want to even give me the time of day,
and I wore her down eventually and, uh, ended up
getting married to her right out of college and, uh,
we have 3 kids now 7 years old, 6 years old,
and 4 years old. Um, we're celebrating our 10 year
anniversary in June this year, so really excited and um.
(04:03):
Yeah, we're really, I'm really thankful. The marriage has been really,
really solid and easy, um, pretty much the whole time,
but she's amazing. She's she's cool. She's made my life
exponentially better and made me a better man and our
kids are, are insane. They're crazy, they're amazing. They're all
so different but all so similar to me and my wife,
which is really special as I mean as fathers and
(04:25):
mothers often identify, there's so many things that we see
in our kids that are us good and bad, and
it's it's really fun and special to see that and.
And, and raise them up in loving the Lord. at Boie. Yeah,
on Instagram I'm at Bodi TikTok is Boie loves you
and both, both platforms, this video is just exploding.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
It's on any of those platforms, trust me, and I,
I said this, do yourself a favor and follow Boie
on social media. It is both ministry to the soul.
Proverbs says that laughter is good medicine. You will gain
laughter and joy from just following Body. He's actually, I'd
say my favorite.
Famous social media personality out there. Are you an influencer?
(05:05):
Do we call you
that?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You can. Well, we all, we all are, right?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
We all have. That's right, gives us more than others.
So anyway, do yourself a favor at Body. We usually
use it, uh, leave that toward the end, but it's exciting.
It's fun. You also get to hear about the cool things, uh,
Body is doing and what God is doing in his life.
So let's go back to from there, um.
I remember us having a conversation. I don't know if
(05:28):
you remember we were walking from Starbucks and you were
in that place of post voice, uh, wondering, you know, uh,
does God want to use you in the secular realm
of music which you have that option because you were
on the voice, hello, um, or Christian music and you
made a choice and you veered toward the Christian music lane.
(05:49):
Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
Why you made that choice? What motivated that choice? What
peace you felt from the Lord to go that way.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, so I, I love talking about this just because it's,
it's a, it was a big, not much, not, not,
not necessarily a heart posture 180, but a big 180
on a career level, um, prior to being on The
Voice at the end of 202022.
I was pursuing secular secular artistry. Still, I had worked
at a church for most of my early career fresh
(06:18):
out of Vanguard. Prior to that, I was, you know,
leading worship since I was 11. Like I've always loved
being a part of the local church. I grew up
as a PK.
For most of my life, like I, I honor the church.
I love the church and I have a, I've always
had a relationship with the Lord, but I just felt
maybe it was selfishness, maybe it was a calling from
the Lord, but I, I, for whatever reason I felt
called to secular music for pretty much the majority of
(06:39):
my time pursuing music career. And I sang on the voice,
somehow made it to the finale and decided in the
finale to sing a worship song. I I've done all
secular music up to that point, um, partially my choice,
partially it's just harder to get Christian music on, you know,
secular shows.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I don't know Jesus Freak would have been awesome. would
have rendition of that. That would have been so cool,
Speaker 2 (07:01):
but yeah, so I, I, I, I had to kind
of fight for, um, I sing gratitude in in the finale,
and I had to kind of fight for it and
we went back and forth for a couple of days
and I, they got it cleared and, um, you know,
the rest is history was the.
The the power of the Holy Spirit was in that studio.
It was incredible.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I
remember Blake Shelton saying you changed the
atmosphere
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Gwen Stefani was crying, John Legend, like like the people
in the coaching chairs were all you could tell they
all were hit by the Holy Spirit and half the
live audience was my church family and people because I was.
yeah, um, and it was incredible. Anyways, fast forward after
that inevitably all the Christian labels are in my DMs like, hey,
(07:38):
you sang this song it was awesome. Who would have
thought singing Christian music or Christian music on on television
would do that, but, um, and at that point still
I was set on being, you know, pop artist, pop artist.
I wanted to make music for, you know, God lovers,
God haters, everybody.
And um I had one conversation, a couple actually, with
um his name is Ben Canalon. He wrote, uh, he wrote,
(07:59):
oh happy day, like awesome dude, you know that guy,
he's the best. I mean, he, I, I would assume
that he probably wants to be known for more than
just that, but that's that's a cool, a cool thing. Anyways,
amazing man, uh, working at the time for Sony Provident,
which is Sony's Christian label, and we had some awesome
conversations and the kind of stuck haunted me in a
(08:19):
good way. I was like, man.
This guy really kind of gets what I wanna do
and I was honest with him, hey, I wanna be
a secular artist. I'd love to be a secular artist
under a Christian house, you know, but I just, uh,
and so we kind of agreed that it wasn't the
right fit, but it's kept haunting me and I remember
I was in the shower and God spoke to me
in the shower as he often does. I feel like
in the shower is one of those weird places where
(08:39):
I just, I hear God's voice and you know I
was standing there and I felt the Lord. I, I,
I was praying. I said, Lord.
I want to reach Christians, but I also want to
reach people that don't love you. I can't do both
if I'm doing Christian music, and I, I, I felt
the Lord say that's not your decision to make. And
it was at that point where I was like, OK,
(09:01):
first of all, I'm a, I'm a dummy. Second of all,
if this all roads kind of look like they're going
this way, uh, the, the, the piece I have when
considering this option far outweighs any peace or any dreams
I have going the opposite direction.
And so I called Ben back up and I was like, hey,
you're never gonna believe this. I fired my management. I, I'm,
I'm all in. I would love to continue this work
(09:22):
you had to do that. Yeah, it was bad, um,
and that was a few months prior, um, and it
was a similar but separate decision, um, but that was
pretty bad too, and, and it was just kind of
all these, these little stepping stones leading to I'm ready
to do this. And so, um, a few months ago
it was a kind of a year anniversary from when
I decided but it was, it was late fall winter
of 2023, um, I decided.
(09:44):
And then I signed about this time last year and
um with Sony Provident and it's been incredible and we've
seen so much fruit from it and I couldn't imagine
doing any other thing than this. So yeah,
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I mean, it kind of shows the logistics behind the
scenes that it's not as easy as like, oh look,
guy on stage, guy gets contract, guy is cool. Look
at guy on radio now look at guy on podcast.
Everything's great. But there was obviously some some waves in
there that you had to make hard decisions, critical pivoting
decisions for your own life, for your career, for your family.
And uh and, and here you are now a recent song, um,
(10:18):
which we're gonna get to in a second, I think
we're not gonna go there just yet, but um I
made it to, like I said, I heard you on
the radio. It was, it was your unique yellow cake
outfit picture that showed up on my little display screen
in my truck and I'm like, oh, I know that guy.
I'd never heard the song yet. Maybe I did when
(10:39):
you were doing some stuff in chapel.
And pre-release stuff, but um uh and and just behind
the scenes. But uh I that's why I texted him like,
oh my gosh, I'm listening to you on the radio
like probably sound like a doofus. You're like, I've been
on the radio for like weeks. But um but it
was so cool. So tell us a little bit about
that journey and and just how that door opened and
here we are in this song.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
What's special about my song being on Christian radio, um,
and I emphasize Christian radio just because.
I chose to pursue Christian musicianship, um, and it is
it is interesting how those genre Christian music versus secular,
there is a pretty large divide there it's becoming more
and more blurred, which is really exciting. um I think
(11:20):
there's more and more Christian artists. I hope to be
one of them that kind of break into both worlds
and can really help minister to all types of people
and I, I do see that happening.
Um, but what's special about my song doing really well
on Christian radio in the US and actually internationally too,
is one of my final meetings with my record label
before signing with them. I was at a dinner with
like all of the A&R team, and I said, hey,
(11:41):
I just, I hope you guys understand.
I'm not going to be your Christian radio artist. Like I, I'm,
I'm very left of center. I don't sound like a
lot of what you hear on Christian radio, but I
love Jesus and I want to make music that all
all ages, all walks of life can connect with, but I,
I just, if you're looking for another radio guy, I don't,
I can't, I'm not gonna write for radio. I'm gonna
(12:01):
write for what I feel God called me to do,
and they said, awesome, let's do it. And so that
that makes it even more special that I stayed true
to where I felt God was leading me creatively.
And um I have a song that's doing really well
on the radio because of of just being faithful what
the Lord wants. And
Speaker 1 (12:17):
so when you say left center, you mean in the
realm of artistry
Speaker 2 (12:19):
sonically like how my music sounds comparatively to like a
Phil Wickham or, you know, um a Matthew West, you know,
people that just crush, you know, have always crushed on
on Christian
Speaker 1 (12:29):
radio. And I think, you know, everything comes in seasons
from my limited perspective as a pastor slash listener of radio, um.
Yeah, everything has seasonal things and and and there's different
people for different things. This is Body we're interviewing and
just Bodi, lowercase B or D I E or all
Speaker 2 (12:48):
caps of the proper capitalization. Yeah, I don't know what's
wrong with me. I hate how it looks, so that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
OK,
cool. Um, so anyway, so Body, uh, you, you, if
people follow you on, on social media, they'll see it.
You have a humor about you.
Your music is so deep. If you hear the lyrics,
anybody you gotta listen to his music. Deep, uh uh
uh uh poetic, I would say. Thank you. Uh, it's
(13:16):
a beautiful sound. It's, it's a fresh sound and yet
your persona.
You are so funny, dude. Help us reconcile the depth
and the theological wonder of your songs with your zany, fun,
loving personality. I think I've resolved it in my heart,
but for our listeners, help them reconcile this.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I just feel like we take ourselves too seriously. I, I, I, I, I,
I've recently fallen in love with.
The idea of this is gonna sound so elementary, but
I growing up in the church, I lost the reverence
for the Holy Spirit at uh around my teenage years.
I think often a lot of young people do when
they've grown up in the church, especially in the charismatic
(13:57):
church where the Holy Spirit is very, um, they, they
get used to it like I heard people praying and
and praying for healing all the things like speaking in tongues,
all that like I, I grew up in that. So
by the time I got into high school, I kind
of lost the awe um.
And so right now I'm really in love with the
idea of just being as reverent as possible and really
honoring the beautiful side of religion and why we do
(14:19):
things and you know, biblically and but at the same time, um,
and I get to teach at Vanguard now as you
know and and I I I I professor professor hilarious.
You're the coolest professor ever most under under uh qualified
professor ever, but.
I, I, I love and I do teach that and I,
but at the same time I do love the idea
of like we take ourselves too seriously and I think
(14:40):
we think God wants us to take ourselves more seriously
than maybe he does in, in the context of our art.
Obviously in our worship we can have fun, but I
do think there's a place in most places is to
be reverent.
But for me with my music it's like, am I
gonna write from the deepest part of my heart most
of the time? Yes, and am I gonna write music
that I would hope is anointed and carries an anointing
that can, you know, soften hearts and and help people
(15:03):
find healing through the Holy Spirit? Yes, but when I,
when it's social media, social media is a joke already,
so I'm gonna, I'm gonna leverage it, make people laugh, um,
I'm pretty mellow right now. I'm mean, I was telling
you earlier this is day 3 of a 3 day
music video shoot and I'm just absolutely wiped out, but
normally I'm a little more hyper than this.
And um, yeah, I just love being goofy online. It's fun.
(15:24):
It is fun.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
And again, you follow him at Body on Instagram and
uh Boie loves you on, on
Speaker 2 (15:29):
uh on TikTok, the TikToks and YouTube and the
Speaker 1 (15:32):
YouTube. So uh in that regard, yeah, I think I
agree with you. Uh, we do take ourselves far too
seriously and I believe just as much as God's given
us a conscience to be reverent, he's also given us
a sense of humor, not to be irreverent.
But to laugh, to to be there with each other
and enjoy life together in a reverent, uh, manner, so
(15:53):
to speak. So I think you're you're, you're totally getting
that and I think honestly, um,
You have been able, even though you're on a Christian
music label, I can still see you cross over, dude,
because you're relational, uh, it would seem. I mean, that's
my view is that you're able to cross over and
reach people that other Christian artists maybe can't reach because
you're just raw and real and I pray even now
(16:15):
that there's people that are listening that maybe are, yeah,
I don't know about this Jesus thing, but they're like
listening to you and or hear your music and go actually.
I need to follow that path. I need to follow
Boy as he follows Jesus, uh, in a zany, fun,
reverent way. So, um, just before we get to the,
the payoff pitch, the musical thing. OK, so you know, uh,
(16:38):
with high school and college students, uh, listening in and
what would you say to, you know, you shared us
a little bit with what you went through in high school,
but what would you say to those, those fledgling.
Musically inclined uh high school or college students who, who
maybe they want to reach that rock star stardom. I
just used double double star star star. they want to
(17:02):
be a star or or they just want to sing.
Or Jesus or or whatever the case, they just want
to be a worship leader in the church. I don't
know what would be some points of wisdom you would
give your younger bodhi self and or these, these artists,
these vocalists, these instrumentalists, these people that are gifted with
art artist, artistry and music and beyond. What would you
(17:23):
say to them?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, I love this, and I get a lot of
messages online like, hey, I wanna be, I wanna be
as exactly what we said I wanna be a rock
star one day. I wanna, I wanna make Christian go
on tour blah blah. Dreams are awesome, and I think
as long as the dreams continue to exist in your
heart as you chase after the Lord, I would hope
and I would believe that those are placed on your
heart from the Lord. And if you continue to stand
(17:45):
in line with the Lord, your dreams are gonna come
and go as you decipher like what is your flesh
and what is the Holy Spirit. But this is the
practical things I say. I'm very practical, so number one.
God will always elevate you when you're faithful, you know,
when you're faithful with little he gives you much. So
for me.
Being so obsessed with what I want in the future
can be a distraction instead of saying, hey, right now
(18:07):
what is God calling for what is God calling me
to today in this season, in this ministry, um, but
these are the practical steps for anyone that's that loves
Jesus or you know, maybe you're you're.
Stepping your foot in the pool of having a relationship
with that wherever you're at with that, but you, but
you're musically inclined, you want to influence people and and
and and help, you know, you you want your music
to help bring hope to people whatever. I would say
(18:29):
number one, you need to spend time with the Lord.
You need to spend time with the Lord. He is
gonna be the compass.
And the thermometer and all the things. 2, you need to, um,
this is a big one for me. You gotta be
plugged into a local church because if you don't have
people pouring into your life and not just peers, but
like a mentor, someone that you trust that's solid theologically
(18:52):
um that you align with on a cultural level.
Um, and then people that surround that, people that you
do life with. I hate the idea of like, oh,
I'm just gonna do church with two friends in my basement.
That's a Bible study. That's not a church. Like you
need to be a part of a church, you know,
crying with people, praying with people, worshiping corporately people. So yeah, #1,
time with God,
Speaker 1 (19:09):
2, so like
for students go to a youth group, find where your
friends and just plug
Speaker 2 (19:13):
in somewhere and yeah, lock in, find find leadership people
that can pour into your life. Those two things.
You could be the biggest rock star on the planet
or a janitor at your, you know, at your elementary
school and leading worship on your youth groups like whatever
it is, like you're gonna find so much fulfillment, but
if you're chasing after your dream, but you're aimless because
you have no one saying, hey, you you shouldn't be
(19:35):
acting this way, man, or hey, hey, you need to
holding you accountable on a musical level, having a couple
people that you trust.
To and you respect to give you advice and and
maybe listen to your music or whatever and give you,
give you feedback. Anyone else shut out the feedback because
it's too many voices is a discouragement and it's a distraction.
(19:55):
And the last piece is do it as much as
you can, right? I've written so many crappy songs, but
I've I've written some good ones and so write as
much as you can sing to your phone every day
when I started out.
I recorded every single day of my voice, my guitar,
whatever it was, and I figured out what I liked
and what I didn't like, uh, and I listened to
music that inspired me and then I try and translate
that into what does that sound like if Body did it? God,
Speaker 1 (20:18):
dude, what a, what an exciting time for you and
and your career and what God is doing, um, and yeah, you're,
you're plugged in obviously local church, Ocean's Church and Ocean's
shout out Pastor Mary um.
Uh, but, uh, way to go, man. Well, hey, can
you share with us those who are listening to the
podcast or on video, a little bit of what God
has given you, um, song that you wrote and it's
(20:40):
been playing on, uh, Christian Radio a lot and is
available on Apple or Spotify, iTunes, all those things. Apple Music,
excuse me, it's no longer iTunes, but uh, yeah, so
go ahead and take it away,
Speaker 2 (20:52):
dude. All right, this is Whisper in the Wind. Should
I intro it? Yeah,
Speaker 1 (20:55):
go for it. Do whatever you
gotta do. What if?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, I should interrupt first and then I'm gonna sing it. OK, OK.
I think that would make more sense. In brief, um,
this song.
I
Normally how I would do this if I was at
a show, let's let's say I'm talking to like young adult,
maybe youth group, young adult. I'd say, hey, raise your
hand if you've been to a camp, like a Christian
(21:20):
church camp or or if I'm talking to adults, like
if you've been to a conference, a Christian conference, and
you just experienced the Holy Spirit move, like you just
saw something incredible that you couldn't deny, like God is
is real, he is moving, and most I'd say most
people in the room would raise their hand.
And I'd say, OK, now don't raise your hand for
this one, but how many of you went back home,
took your bus back down the mountain, whatever, got back
(21:41):
to your house and you're like, oh, I'm still depressed, or, oh, I'm,
I'm still addicted to porn, or oh, I'm still my
parents are still getting divorced or oh, I'm still, I'm
still in the same crap that I was dealing with.
I thought God was gonna change everything. I just gave
my life to Him. Why is the same things feeling
the same.
And then I'd say that that often we're tempted to
then think either God's not real, or God doesn't care,
(22:03):
or God doesn't answer my prayers or God doesn't love me.
And I wanted to write a song that acknowledges.
That we we believe and we serve a God that
does miraculous things. He, he is in the mighty gusts
of wind, the earth shattering, ground shaking moments, the miraculous,
and I've seen God do incredible things that cannot be explained.
I know you have too.
But often when we experience that and then we pray
(22:25):
for those same things in a different circumstance and we
see a different outcome or maybe um what we pray
for doesn't happen, um, it's really tempting for us to
be frustrated or questioned and I think there's beauty in that,
but I still want to acknowledge, hey, just as much
as God is in these big moments, I'm going to
continue to believe for big moments to continue happening.
God is with us, I'd say more often than not
(22:46):
in the quietness and the stillness of the spirit in
our prayer closet when we're, when we're, you know, in
our rooms on our knees asking God, where are you?
He's he's right there with you. He's he's he's wrestling
through these things with you. It may just look different
than how you want wanted him to look or operate in.
So this song's called Whisper in the Windwesome.
(23:07):
So many times I messed up the words already. Oh
my gosh, I'm good. Here we go. When I'm feeling
my feet are tired from running so hard for miles.
You are the air I really need.
But life is a roller coaster and I start to
lose composure. You're in the drops and in between.
(23:29):
Every time I'm stuck in indecision, losing my vision, you
close the distance.
And I don't need to.
My whole life you've been all that I need.
I, I felt in the fire.
(23:55):
He
you're
I you.
You're with me in the whisper and the wind.
(24:23):
So many knots are staying, trying to bear the weight
when all that I want is already done.
You bridge the space I'm feeling when all that I
see is silly. Every time that I look up.
(24:53):
Believe
you've been all that I needed and.
in the fire and the rain.
He
when you're.
Um.
(25:14):
that's
Yeah with me in the whisper.
I don't want to waste any time just looking for.
the
(25:37):
Where you're so close I can feel it's your breath
that I'm breathing out.
No need to see it to believe it.
you
I
(26:03):
When you
in the walls a cave in.
with me in the whisper and the wind.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
What a joy it was to literally hear Body's music
as well his own down to earth fun loving personality
as we explored how he interacts with culture, with his faith.
So if you're a musician or just somebody who appreciates
music and you want to influence American culture with your art,
(26:42):
I hope you took Boy's practical wisdom to heart. So
in a review.
What are some things Body shared? #1, spend time with Jesus. #2,
plug into your local church or if you're a student,
your youth ministry. And 3, write down or record or
draw out everything, even the junky stuff.
(27:03):
Whether you've been in church for a long time or
somebody who's just observing from the outside looking in, I
hope this episode has been an encouragement to your heart
and your value as a person as you pursue your dreams,
and ultimately I hope to the glory of God.
I'm excited to welcome you to the Kingdom and Culture
podcast here on Kwave. I'm your host, Mike Whitford. Just
a little bit about me, I am a husband, dad
of 3, and a Labradoodle. I've been a pastor for
over 25 years, and I worked in the United States
Senate way back in the day. I happen to be
(00:20):
a Dodger fan. Love all things, Lord of the Rings
and or Marvel slash Captain.
America, but I digress on that. Here on the Kingdom
and Culture podcast, we are going to go into the
crossroads of Christian faith and culture, and I hope that
I can help you find answers to questions you didn't
(00:40):
even know you had. We're gonna have some amazing guests
who will help us do that. So join us every
week for the Kingdom and Culture podcast here on Kwave.
(01:03):
Today we have one of the coolest people on the planet,
and I'm using the word cool because I'm from Gen X. So, uh,
but this guy's cool. What's the words we use today?
He's got Riz. I don't know what else to say.
This guy's awesome. This guy is Bodie and, uh, Body,
if maybe somebody you're like, oh, I know that guy,
but he has been on The Voice season 22. Easy
(01:26):
to remember, and he's not gonna talk today. So I'm
gonna do all this talking for him. He's gonna no
I'm kidding, I'm
Speaker 2 (01:30):
kidding. You're waiting for the intro. I was waiting.
Because you're on
Speaker 1 (01:33):
camera, bro, say hi to everybody. And remember we're, we're
laid back here. We're chill, we're having fun. We're conversing,
we're being ourselves, but, uh, to the glory of God,
come on, uh, but, uh, Body has been on the
voice he listen.
If if there was ever a time to be 2,
this was the time because there's a lot of cool
things as to why he got anyway, go on season
(01:56):
22 online somewhere and you'll find Boie there. But more
than that, Bodie is a great guy. He loves Jesus. Uh,
he has recently unleashed his own album and I'm gonna
let him do the introduction of that because I don't
want to mess anything up. But I know, uh, when
I was listening on another radio station.
Uh, uh, and I heard Body show up. I didn't
(02:17):
even know he was getting released on radio. I'm like, dude,
I know that guy. It's like I feel like Buddy
the Elf. Santa, I know him. I know Body. So
I'm so excited that you're here. But dude, why don't you, um,
tell us a little bit about what God's doing, uh,
the murder my ego.
Tour, uh, your music and then we're gonna get a
little bit in the family stuff because you are a
dad of three. You, your wife's awesome. You guys got
(02:40):
creativity like flowing out your veins, just amazing stuff going on.
So go
Speaker 2 (02:45):
ahead I appreciate that. Yeah, um, my name is Body.
I make music and.
Yeah, I put out an EP, uh, last year, and
then we just put out a follow up remix EP
a couple weeks ago and then I'm working on some
new music that's gonna come out here pretty soon, just
about ready to announce that and yeah, as you said,
going on tour in May, super excited and guys just
(03:06):
doing done a lot of really, really incredible things that
I couldn't have even imagined since coming off of the Voice.
It's been really special, yeah,
Speaker 1 (03:13):
for sure.
Um, all right, really pause on the career stuff because
we'll get back to that and you're also gonna get
us a little treat of musical talent and abilities, which
will
be great.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
We'll see. Yeah, it'll be great
Speaker 1 (03:26):
if
Speaker 2 (03:26):
we're
Speaker 1 (03:26):
lucky. I hope so. very lucky. Let's be very lucky.
All right, anyway, uh, so tell us about, yeah, you
got 3 kids, uh, how old are they? What's dad
life like, husband life and ministry life like?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Um, I met my wife at Vanguard. I'm a Vanguard alum, and, uh, yeah,
we love Vanguard and, uh, met her freshman year. She
didn't want to even give me the time of day,
and I wore her down eventually and, uh, ended up
getting married to her right out of college and, uh,
we have 3 kids now 7 years old, 6 years old,
and 4 years old. Um, we're celebrating our 10 year
anniversary in June this year, so really excited and um.
(04:03):
Yeah, we're really, I'm really thankful. The marriage has been really,
really solid and easy, um, pretty much the whole time,
but she's amazing. She's she's cool. She's made my life
exponentially better and made me a better man and our
kids are, are insane. They're crazy, they're amazing. They're all
so different but all so similar to me and my wife,
which is really special as I mean as fathers and
(04:25):
mothers often identify, there's so many things that we see
in our kids that are us good and bad, and
it's it's really fun and special to see that and.
And, and raise them up in loving the Lord. at Boie. Yeah,
on Instagram I'm at Bodi TikTok is Boie loves you
and both, both platforms, this video is just exploding.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
It's on any of those platforms, trust me, and I,
I said this, do yourself a favor and follow Boie
on social media. It is both ministry to the soul.
Proverbs says that laughter is good medicine. You will gain
laughter and joy from just following Body. He's actually, I'd
say my favorite.
Famous social media personality out there. Are you an influencer?
(05:05):
Do we call you
that?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You can. Well, we all, we all are, right?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
We all have. That's right, gives us more than others.
So anyway, do yourself a favor at Body. We usually
use it, uh, leave that toward the end, but it's exciting.
It's fun. You also get to hear about the cool things, uh,
Body is doing and what God is doing in his life.
So let's go back to from there, um.
I remember us having a conversation. I don't know if
(05:28):
you remember we were walking from Starbucks and you were
in that place of post voice, uh, wondering, you know, uh,
does God want to use you in the secular realm
of music which you have that option because you were
on the voice, hello, um, or Christian music and you
made a choice and you veered toward the Christian music lane.
(05:49):
Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
Why you made that choice? What motivated that choice? What
peace you felt from the Lord to go that way.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, so I, I love talking about this just because it's,
it's a, it was a big, not much, not, not,
not necessarily a heart posture 180, but a big 180
on a career level, um, prior to being on The
Voice at the end of 202022.
I was pursuing secular secular artistry. Still, I had worked
at a church for most of my early career fresh
(06:18):
out of Vanguard. Prior to that, I was, you know,
leading worship since I was 11. Like I've always loved
being a part of the local church. I grew up
as a PK.
For most of my life, like I, I honor the church.
I love the church and I have a, I've always
had a relationship with the Lord, but I just felt
maybe it was selfishness, maybe it was a calling from
the Lord, but I, I, for whatever reason I felt
called to secular music for pretty much the majority of
(06:39):
my time pursuing music career. And I sang on the voice,
somehow made it to the finale and decided in the
finale to sing a worship song. I I've done all
secular music up to that point, um, partially my choice,
partially it's just harder to get Christian music on, you know,
secular shows.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I don't know Jesus Freak would have been awesome. would
have rendition of that. That would have been so cool,
Speaker 2 (07:01):
but yeah, so I, I, I, I had to kind
of fight for, um, I sing gratitude in in the finale,
and I had to kind of fight for it and
we went back and forth for a couple of days
and I, they got it cleared and, um, you know,
the rest is history was the.
The the power of the Holy Spirit was in that studio.
It was incredible.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I
remember Blake Shelton saying you changed the
atmosphere
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Gwen Stefani was crying, John Legend, like like the people
in the coaching chairs were all you could tell they
all were hit by the Holy Spirit and half the
live audience was my church family and people because I was.
yeah, um, and it was incredible. Anyways, fast forward after
that inevitably all the Christian labels are in my DMs like, hey,
(07:38):
you sang this song it was awesome. Who would have
thought singing Christian music or Christian music on on television
would do that, but, um, and at that point still
I was set on being, you know, pop artist, pop artist.
I wanted to make music for, you know, God lovers,
God haters, everybody.
And um I had one conversation, a couple actually, with
um his name is Ben Canalon. He wrote, uh, he wrote,
(07:59):
oh happy day, like awesome dude, you know that guy,
he's the best. I mean, he, I, I would assume
that he probably wants to be known for more than
just that, but that's that's a cool, a cool thing. Anyways,
amazing man, uh, working at the time for Sony Provident,
which is Sony's Christian label, and we had some awesome
conversations and the kind of stuck haunted me in a
(08:19):
good way. I was like, man.
This guy really kind of gets what I wanna do
and I was honest with him, hey, I wanna be
a secular artist. I'd love to be a secular artist
under a Christian house, you know, but I just, uh,
and so we kind of agreed that it wasn't the
right fit, but it's kept haunting me and I remember
I was in the shower and God spoke to me
in the shower as he often does. I feel like
in the shower is one of those weird places where
(08:39):
I just, I hear God's voice and you know I
was standing there and I felt the Lord. I, I,
I was praying. I said, Lord.
I want to reach Christians, but I also want to
reach people that don't love you. I can't do both
if I'm doing Christian music, and I, I, I felt
the Lord say that's not your decision to make. And
it was at that point where I was like, OK,
(09:01):
first of all, I'm a, I'm a dummy. Second of all,
if this all roads kind of look like they're going
this way, uh, the, the, the piece I have when
considering this option far outweighs any peace or any dreams
I have going the opposite direction.
And so I called Ben back up and I was like, hey,
you're never gonna believe this. I fired my management. I, I'm,
I'm all in. I would love to continue this work
(09:22):
you had to do that. Yeah, it was bad, um,
and that was a few months prior, um, and it
was a similar but separate decision, um, but that was
pretty bad too, and, and it was just kind of
all these, these little stepping stones leading to I'm ready
to do this. And so, um, a few months ago
it was a kind of a year anniversary from when
I decided but it was, it was late fall winter
of 2023, um, I decided.
(09:44):
And then I signed about this time last year and
um with Sony Provident and it's been incredible and we've
seen so much fruit from it and I couldn't imagine
doing any other thing than this. So yeah,
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I mean, it kind of shows the logistics behind the
scenes that it's not as easy as like, oh look,
guy on stage, guy gets contract, guy is cool. Look
at guy on radio now look at guy on podcast.
Everything's great. But there was obviously some some waves in
there that you had to make hard decisions, critical pivoting
decisions for your own life, for your career, for your family.
And uh and, and here you are now a recent song, um,
(10:18):
which we're gonna get to in a second, I think
we're not gonna go there just yet, but um I
made it to, like I said, I heard you on
the radio. It was, it was your unique yellow cake
outfit picture that showed up on my little display screen
in my truck and I'm like, oh, I know that guy.
I'd never heard the song yet. Maybe I did when
(10:39):
you were doing some stuff in chapel.
And pre-release stuff, but um uh and and just behind
the scenes. But uh I that's why I texted him like,
oh my gosh, I'm listening to you on the radio
like probably sound like a doofus. You're like, I've been
on the radio for like weeks. But um but it
was so cool. So tell us a little bit about
that journey and and just how that door opened and
here we are in this song.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
What's special about my song being on Christian radio, um,
and I emphasize Christian radio just because.
I chose to pursue Christian musicianship, um, and it is
it is interesting how those genre Christian music versus secular,
there is a pretty large divide there it's becoming more
and more blurred, which is really exciting. um I think
(11:20):
there's more and more Christian artists. I hope to be
one of them that kind of break into both worlds
and can really help minister to all types of people
and I, I do see that happening.
Um, but what's special about my song doing really well
on Christian radio in the US and actually internationally too,
is one of my final meetings with my record label
before signing with them. I was at a dinner with
like all of the A&R team, and I said, hey,
(11:41):
I just, I hope you guys understand.
I'm not going to be your Christian radio artist. Like I, I'm,
I'm very left of center. I don't sound like a
lot of what you hear on Christian radio, but I
love Jesus and I want to make music that all
all ages, all walks of life can connect with, but I,
I just, if you're looking for another radio guy, I don't,
I can't, I'm not gonna write for radio. I'm gonna
(12:01):
write for what I feel God called me to do,
and they said, awesome, let's do it. And so that
that makes it even more special that I stayed true
to where I felt God was leading me creatively.
And um I have a song that's doing really well
on the radio because of of just being faithful what
the Lord wants. And
Speaker 1 (12:17):
so when you say left center, you mean in the
realm of artistry
Speaker 2 (12:19):
sonically like how my music sounds comparatively to like a
Phil Wickham or, you know, um a Matthew West, you know,
people that just crush, you know, have always crushed on
on Christian
Speaker 1 (12:29):
radio. And I think, you know, everything comes in seasons
from my limited perspective as a pastor slash listener of radio, um.
Yeah, everything has seasonal things and and and there's different
people for different things. This is Body we're interviewing and
just Bodi, lowercase B or D I E or all
Speaker 2 (12:48):
caps of the proper capitalization. Yeah, I don't know what's
wrong with me. I hate how it looks, so that's interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
OK,
cool. Um, so anyway, so Body, uh, you, you, if
people follow you on, on social media, they'll see it.
You have a humor about you.
Your music is so deep. If you hear the lyrics,
anybody you gotta listen to his music. Deep, uh uh
uh uh poetic, I would say. Thank you. Uh, it's
(13:16):
a beautiful sound. It's, it's a fresh sound and yet
your persona.
You are so funny, dude. Help us reconcile the depth
and the theological wonder of your songs with your zany, fun,
loving personality. I think I've resolved it in my heart,
but for our listeners, help them reconcile this.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I just feel like we take ourselves too seriously. I, I, I, I, I,
I've recently fallen in love with.
The idea of this is gonna sound so elementary, but
I growing up in the church, I lost the reverence
for the Holy Spirit at uh around my teenage years.
I think often a lot of young people do when
they've grown up in the church, especially in the charismatic
(13:57):
church where the Holy Spirit is very, um, they, they
get used to it like I heard people praying and
and praying for healing all the things like speaking in tongues,
all that like I, I grew up in that. So
by the time I got into high school, I kind
of lost the awe um.
And so right now I'm really in love with the
idea of just being as reverent as possible and really
honoring the beautiful side of religion and why we do
(14:19):
things and you know, biblically and but at the same time, um,
and I get to teach at Vanguard now as you
know and and I I I I professor professor hilarious.
You're the coolest professor ever most under under uh qualified
professor ever, but.
I, I, I love and I do teach that and I,
but at the same time I do love the idea
of like we take ourselves too seriously and I think
(14:40):
we think God wants us to take ourselves more seriously
than maybe he does in, in the context of our art.
Obviously in our worship we can have fun, but I
do think there's a place in most places is to
be reverent.
But for me with my music it's like, am I
gonna write from the deepest part of my heart most
of the time? Yes, and am I gonna write music
that I would hope is anointed and carries an anointing
that can, you know, soften hearts and and help people
(15:03):
find healing through the Holy Spirit? Yes, but when I,
when it's social media, social media is a joke already,
so I'm gonna, I'm gonna leverage it, make people laugh, um,
I'm pretty mellow right now. I'm mean, I was telling
you earlier this is day 3 of a 3 day
music video shoot and I'm just absolutely wiped out, but
normally I'm a little more hyper than this.
And um, yeah, I just love being goofy online. It's fun.
(15:24):
It is fun.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
And again, you follow him at Body on Instagram and
uh Boie loves you on, on
Speaker 2 (15:29):
uh on TikTok, the TikToks and YouTube and the
Speaker 1 (15:32):
YouTube. So uh in that regard, yeah, I think I
agree with you. Uh, we do take ourselves far too
seriously and I believe just as much as God's given
us a conscience to be reverent, he's also given us
a sense of humor, not to be irreverent.
But to laugh, to to be there with each other
and enjoy life together in a reverent, uh, manner, so
(15:53):
to speak. So I think you're you're, you're totally getting
that and I think honestly, um,
You have been able, even though you're on a Christian
music label, I can still see you cross over, dude,
because you're relational, uh, it would seem. I mean, that's
my view is that you're able to cross over and
reach people that other Christian artists maybe can't reach because
you're just raw and real and I pray even now
(16:15):
that there's people that are listening that maybe are, yeah,
I don't know about this Jesus thing, but they're like
listening to you and or hear your music and go actually.
I need to follow that path. I need to follow
Boy as he follows Jesus, uh, in a zany, fun,
reverent way. So, um, just before we get to the,
the payoff pitch, the musical thing. OK, so you know, uh,
(16:38):
with high school and college students, uh, listening in and
what would you say to, you know, you shared us
a little bit with what you went through in high school,
but what would you say to those, those fledgling.
Musically inclined uh high school or college students who, who
maybe they want to reach that rock star stardom. I
just used double double star star star. they want to
(17:02):
be a star or or they just want to sing.
Or Jesus or or whatever the case, they just want
to be a worship leader in the church. I don't
know what would be some points of wisdom you would
give your younger bodhi self and or these, these artists,
these vocalists, these instrumentalists, these people that are gifted with
art artist, artistry and music and beyond. What would you
(17:23):
say to them?
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, I love this, and I get a lot of
messages online like, hey, I wanna be, I wanna be
as exactly what we said I wanna be a rock
star one day. I wanna, I wanna make Christian go
on tour blah blah. Dreams are awesome, and I think
as long as the dreams continue to exist in your
heart as you chase after the Lord, I would hope
and I would believe that those are placed on your
heart from the Lord. And if you continue to stand
(17:45):
in line with the Lord, your dreams are gonna come
and go as you decipher like what is your flesh
and what is the Holy Spirit. But this is the
practical things I say. I'm very practical, so number one.
God will always elevate you when you're faithful, you know,
when you're faithful with little he gives you much. So
for me.
Being so obsessed with what I want in the future
can be a distraction instead of saying, hey, right now
(18:07):
what is God calling for what is God calling me
to today in this season, in this ministry, um, but
these are the practical steps for anyone that's that loves
Jesus or you know, maybe you're you're.
Stepping your foot in the pool of having a relationship
with that wherever you're at with that, but you, but
you're musically inclined, you want to influence people and and
and and help, you know, you you want your music
to help bring hope to people whatever. I would say
(18:29):
number one, you need to spend time with the Lord.
You need to spend time with the Lord. He is
gonna be the compass.
And the thermometer and all the things. 2, you need to, um,
this is a big one for me. You gotta be
plugged into a local church because if you don't have
people pouring into your life and not just peers, but
like a mentor, someone that you trust that's solid theologically
(18:52):
um that you align with on a cultural level.
Um, and then people that surround that, people that you
do life with. I hate the idea of like, oh,
I'm just gonna do church with two friends in my basement.
That's a Bible study. That's not a church. Like you
need to be a part of a church, you know,
crying with people, praying with people, worshiping corporately people. So yeah, #1,
time with God,
Speaker 1 (19:09):
2, so like
for students go to a youth group, find where your
friends and just plug
Speaker 2 (19:13):
in somewhere and yeah, lock in, find find leadership people
that can pour into your life. Those two things.
You could be the biggest rock star on the planet
or a janitor at your, you know, at your elementary
school and leading worship on your youth groups like whatever
it is, like you're gonna find so much fulfillment, but
if you're chasing after your dream, but you're aimless because
you have no one saying, hey, you you shouldn't be
(19:35):
acting this way, man, or hey, hey, you need to
holding you accountable on a musical level, having a couple
people that you trust.
To and you respect to give you advice and and
maybe listen to your music or whatever and give you,
give you feedback. Anyone else shut out the feedback because
it's too many voices is a discouragement and it's a distraction.
(19:55):
And the last piece is do it as much as
you can, right? I've written so many crappy songs, but
I've I've written some good ones and so write as
much as you can sing to your phone every day
when I started out.
I recorded every single day of my voice, my guitar,
whatever it was, and I figured out what I liked
and what I didn't like, uh, and I listened to
music that inspired me and then I try and translate
that into what does that sound like if Body did it? God,
Speaker 1 (20:18):
dude, what a, what an exciting time for you and
and your career and what God is doing, um, and yeah, you're,
you're plugged in obviously local church, Ocean's Church and Ocean's
shout out Pastor Mary um.
Uh, but, uh, way to go, man. Well, hey, can
you share with us those who are listening to the
podcast or on video, a little bit of what God
has given you, um, song that you wrote and it's
(20:40):
been playing on, uh, Christian Radio a lot and is
available on Apple or Spotify, iTunes, all those things. Apple Music,
excuse me, it's no longer iTunes, but uh, yeah, so
go ahead and take it away,
Speaker 2 (20:52):
dude. All right, this is Whisper in the Wind. Should
I intro it? Yeah,
Speaker 1 (20:55):
go for it. Do whatever you
gotta do. What if?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah, I should interrupt first and then I'm gonna sing it. OK, OK.
I think that would make more sense. In brief, um,
this song.
I
Normally how I would do this if I was at
a show, let's let's say I'm talking to like young adult,
maybe youth group, young adult. I'd say, hey, raise your
hand if you've been to a camp, like a Christian
(21:20):
church camp or or if I'm talking to adults, like
if you've been to a conference, a Christian conference, and
you just experienced the Holy Spirit move, like you just
saw something incredible that you couldn't deny, like God is
is real, he is moving, and most I'd say most
people in the room would raise their hand.
And I'd say, OK, now don't raise your hand for
this one, but how many of you went back home,
took your bus back down the mountain, whatever, got back
(21:41):
to your house and you're like, oh, I'm still depressed, or, oh, I'm,
I'm still addicted to porn, or oh, I'm still my
parents are still getting divorced or oh, I'm still, I'm
still in the same crap that I was dealing with.
I thought God was gonna change everything. I just gave
my life to Him. Why is the same things feeling
the same.
And then I'd say that that often we're tempted to
then think either God's not real, or God doesn't care,
(22:03):
or God doesn't answer my prayers or God doesn't love me.
And I wanted to write a song that acknowledges.
That we we believe and we serve a God that
does miraculous things. He, he is in the mighty gusts
of wind, the earth shattering, ground shaking moments, the miraculous,
and I've seen God do incredible things that cannot be explained.
I know you have too.
But often when we experience that and then we pray
(22:25):
for those same things in a different circumstance and we
see a different outcome or maybe um what we pray
for doesn't happen, um, it's really tempting for us to
be frustrated or questioned and I think there's beauty in that,
but I still want to acknowledge, hey, just as much
as God is in these big moments, I'm going to
continue to believe for big moments to continue happening.
God is with us, I'd say more often than not
(22:46):
in the quietness and the stillness of the spirit in
our prayer closet when we're, when we're, you know, in
our rooms on our knees asking God, where are you?
He's he's right there with you. He's he's he's wrestling
through these things with you. It may just look different
than how you want wanted him to look or operate in.
So this song's called Whisper in the Windwesome.
(23:07):
So many times I messed up the words already. Oh
my gosh, I'm good. Here we go. When I'm feeling
my feet are tired from running so hard for miles.
You are the air I really need.
But life is a roller coaster and I start to
lose composure. You're in the drops and in between.
(23:29):
Every time I'm stuck in indecision, losing my vision, you
close the distance.
And I don't need to.
My whole life you've been all that I need.
I, I felt in the fire.
(23:55):
He
you're
I you.
You're with me in the whisper and the wind.
(24:23):
So many knots are staying, trying to bear the weight
when all that I want is already done.
You bridge the space I'm feeling when all that I
see is silly. Every time that I look up.
(24:53):
Believe
you've been all that I needed and.
in the fire and the rain.
He
when you're.
Um.
(25:14):
that's
Yeah with me in the whisper.
I don't want to waste any time just looking for.
the
(25:37):
Where you're so close I can feel it's your breath
that I'm breathing out.
No need to see it to believe it.
you
I
(26:03):
When you
in the walls a cave in.
with me in the whisper and the wind.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
What a joy it was to literally hear Body's music
as well his own down to earth fun loving personality
as we explored how he interacts with culture, with his faith.
So if you're a musician or just somebody who appreciates
music and you want to influence American culture with your art,
(26:42):
I hope you took Boy's practical wisdom to heart. So
in a review.
What are some things Body shared? #1, spend time with Jesus. #2,
plug into your local church or if you're a student,
your youth ministry. And 3, write down or record or
draw out everything, even the junky stuff.
(27:03):
Whether you've been in church for a long time or
somebody who's just observing from the outside looking in, I
hope this episode has been an encouragement to your heart
and your value as a person as you pursue your dreams,
and ultimately I hope to the glory of God.
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